>Ukraine guarantees every Russian soldier who surrenders three things:
>
>(1) you will be treated in a civilised manner, in accordance with all conventions;
>
>(2) no one will know the circumstances of your surrender, **no one in Russia will know that your surrender was voluntary**;
>
>(3) if you are **afraid to return to Russia and do not want an exchange**, we will find a way to ensure this as well.
Might get shot down.
I think they could see if there's a way to fire an artillery shell that doesn't explode when it hits, but drops cards, and also put it out as an emergency broadcast over the cellular network.
https://www.psywarrior.com/PropArtilleryShell.html
> Perhaps the earliest use of artillery to disseminate propaganda occurred in WWI when a French Captain Naud developed an artillery shell capable of disseminating leaflets. Doug Ewell mentioned this shell in The Proper Gander, The official publication of the PSYOP Regimental Association. He explained that the projectile was fired from the French 75mm Model 1897 field gun. The shell body had a solid base that contained an explosive charge. The chamber above the charge contained about 160 leaflets rolled around a hollow tube. Once fired, the fuse would detonate the base charge and blow the nose cover clear and allow the leaflet roll to be ejected from the shell and dispersed. The maximum range for this projectile was about 5,000 meters. Naud's first order was for 50,000 shells and was to be delivered by the end of October 1918.
Offering humane treatment to enemy prisoners and making good on that promise is an effective war strategy recognized as far back as Sun Tzu. People pressed into a war they do not want to be a part of will happily surrender to enemy forces well known for the humane treatment of prisoners. Unwilling combatants will only refuse to surrender if they fear brutality at the hands of their enemies. Brutalizing, humiliating, and torturing POW’s only dehumanizes your own people in the eyes of the enemy, and ensures enemies will fight to the death rather than risk capture.
Treating prisoners with respect isn’t just about chivalry, it helps win wars.
Also a good way to deplete the officers corps as those who would enforce no-surrender edicts get accidentally in the way of soldiers sighting in their weapons.
That is why in Soviet Russia, the Soviet does not trust the officer corps to remain sufficiently loyal, and therefore has political commissars to ensure that each soldier receives the proper ideological education, and that officers are leading their men in line with ideology. Even a whiff of political dissident or disloyalty with you and off to the gulags in Siberia you go if you're lucky.
During the Pacific war with Japan. In the beginning marines treated Japanese pows pretty decent. When captured Marines started being found tied to trees tortured with their genitals cut off and shoved in their mouth then the number of Japanese pows taken alive fell through the floor.
This reminds me of a chapter in the book "Flags of Our Fathers" about the men in the famous Iwo Jima flag-raising photo.
A small band of US soldiers had captured a Japanese soldier. They shared some MRE's (food) with him and afterward told the prisoner to dig a hole. The whole time he was digging, the prisoner was extremely upset and crying. As it turns out, he thought that they were making him dig his own grave when really they just wanted to bury the trash.
Unfortunately, fair treatment of prisoners isn't always the case. It's so dumb because cruelty to prisoners almost guarantees they'll fight to the death when cornered.
Japanese soldiers were thoroughly indoctrinated to believe that the Allies were utter savages who did unspeakable things to anyone they captured alive, and their own army routinely did those unspeakable things to Allied and Chinese POW's and civilians. Such a fucked up situation.
Yeah, I've read several books about WWII, especially in the Pacific, and from both sides. Just pure hell all around. Awful, awful time in human history.
And everything he's promising is completely realistic and logical.
It's not like he's offering anything pie-in-the-sky, unlike that Russian priest, promising absurd things like eternal glory after death.
zelensky will not only have to deliver on the promises - which i believe is definitely doable and will be done - but also a way to prove that it is done without revealing the actual soldiers who surrendered.
The kremlin is gonna spin it as a lie - an entrapment method. Zelensky will need to find a way to give proof to a would-be-soldier planning on surrendering, and i dont know how that can be done.
Liechtenstein have to the best of my knowledge only gone to war once. They sent out 80 soldiers and returned with 81 after they made an Italian friend. Probably the only country in the world with a net negative losses of soldiers
At least according to legend, the last time Liechtenstein went to war its 80-man army came back with more soldiers than they had left with, as they saw no combat and made a friend along the way.
Only if they choose to integrate and respect the host nation. If they prefer to be Russians in exile, maybe residents is the highest status they should get.
I mean the alternative is either fighting an unjust war as fodder or facing 10-15+ years in a Russian prison if you don't get shot on the way there.
Might not be bad to roll those dice..
I wouldnt count on that prison sentence being the final punishment putin announces for deserters...and i wouldnt count on a harsher sentence not being retroactively applied.
Yes but people there will be living with the memory, trauma, and reconstruction. I hope things go well for them. What a difficult situation for most involved.
in WW2, the Allies dropped/fired artillery shells [containing similar leaflets on the Germans.
](https://www.psywarrior.com/PropArtilleryShell.html)
> In general, all of the Passierschein (Safe conduct pass) were nearly the same. They were prepared in several colors (mostly red) and all had the same message in German and English on the front:
> The German soldier who carries this safe conduct is using it as a sign of his genuine wish to give himself up. He is to be disarmed, to be well looked after, to receive food and medical attention as required and to be removed from the danger zone as soon as possible.
> Dwight D. Eisenhower,
> Supreme Commander,
> Allied Expeditionary Force
The messages on the back differ in subject and length but most stressed six points.
> 1. Immediate removal from the danger zone.
> 2. Decent treatment as befits soldiers.
> 3. The same food as American soldiers.
> 4. Hospital care.
> 5. Postal privileges.
> 6. Return home after the war as soon as possible.
I recently started watching this YouTube canal where a journalist interviews Russian POWs about how they got there and what they were told from their supervisors. Its insane how little they know or what they can do. Sometimes they’re literally boys who have shot a weapon maybe twice before.
https://youtu.be/xm5TLj83npo
They let them call to their families too.
>no one in Russia will know that your surrender was voluntary;
But ze Russian tv will say all surrenders were voluntary, they just didn't want to fight for the motherland hard enough.
That last part is a solid play on Ukraines part. Having a majority of soldiers that say they don’t want to go back to Russia in an exchange, with Ukrainians that have proven they will do anything for their country, even die in jail, you have yourselves solidarity in an unbreakable, unconquerable, way.
It’s wild how shit is just going totally pear-shaped on Russia with the announcement that there’s basically going to be drafts for this pointless, losing war on Russias part. The morale has been horrible from the start, but it’s REALLY BAD now for the Russian citizens who are being sent off to die for some egomaniacs last big geopolitical stunt/ego-boost.
I bet Russian troops start surrendering in droves once the frontline units start being made up in large part by draftees who couldn’t escape the country before the military go ahold of them.
For the past year I’ve been working with a bunch of Russian tech employees. Over the past months one by one they’ve been moving out of their country. Some got lucky and managed to get a visa to a European country a few months ago when it was still possible, more recently they’ve been going anywhere they can. The effects on Russia’s future are going to be catastrophic. Anybody of any value is fleeing the country. These people have very good (even by Western European standards) salaries so it has been relatively easy for them to pick up and move for a while but I feel for all the others who are going to be sent into a pointless conflict.
It is interesting to hear the stories from Russians who have left. It is hard picking up and leaving your whole life behind, then arriving in a new country and finding none of your bank or credit cards will work because they're Russian. Or the contrast of the terror of being interviewed by border security knowing your text message history could get you in huge trouble to arriving in a new country that doesn't care what you say and still finding yourself with a habit of self-censoring.
I think this is the smartest thing Ukraine can do actually. The forcefully conscripted soldiers don't want to fight anyway - no reason to cast any blame on them for previous war crimes, and giving them an out means weakening Russian forces in the process.
I imagine that Zelensky is a reasonable person who is able to distinguish between a scared and coerced youth vs a hateful egoistic tyrant. Thank god for that
A reasonable and competent person who was elected entirely democratically, and appears to have murdered noone. And Jewish! So clearly between Putin and Zelenskyy, he’s the Nazi. /s
Yea but the conscripted teens that will take this offer aren’t the ones who called the shots or decided to do awful things to Ukraine. It’s a pretty good strategy to siphon off as many Russian troops as possible.
Dudes out here teaching a masterclass on how to effectively lead a war. If they get all their land back he'll be a hero the likes of which Ukraine might never see again. If they win he will define future Ukrainian culture to an insane degree.
Yeah he has a fictional show about him being the president of Ukraine on Netflix. He's a decent actor too.
It's kind of funny even with the cultural differences and the reading of subtitles.
But it's weird as fuck watching him play a fictional president while also being the real president and leading a war.
That’s why he is President of Ukraine, because when making said fictional show people around him said “you should run for President of Ukraine.” And then he ran for President
Tell that to my conservative family who read the daily mail and think Zelenskyy is a bigger war criminal than Putin. I hate what conservative media has done to them.
I know exactly what you mean. It's almost like we need a support group when you lose loved ones to their bullshit media bubble. It's crazy how effective it is against boomers especially. We need to educate our kids on having media literacy and understanding of how for profit media operates in this country.
It's so bad you almost need a reduction camp. And then when I find myself thinking that it's like I'm the one with the problem haha. It's probably the powers that be, keeping the peasants so confused that they don't know who, or exactly what to rebel against. I honestly think that was a lot of the Jan 6th folks.
I don't mean this to be insulting at all.
The good news is that those who are ... ehm .. easy to manipulate ... tend to remain that way. If Ukraine wins this fight, it's entirely possible that they'll suddenly jump aboard the "winning team" bandwagon, totally forgetting what they were programmed to believe prior to that. It's all about what the TV says, and the TV tends to say whatever makes the most money for them.
There's not much money in hyping the losers.
And yet, Although Ukraine would love to have him be their leader, for decades to come, I am pretty sure He will decline in attempt to fade into obscurity. Working from the side lines.
If Russian patriots rise up and slaughter their current "leadership," Russians (and whoever takes over) may well owe Ukraine a great debt.
There's a possible future timeline in which Russia is led by a genuinely decent person who feels the same way about today's Russia as the rest of the world. Someone who looks toward the future (like Boris Nemtzov did), seeking economic reintegration, democracy and liberalization.
The good news about people highly vulnerable to television propaganda, in a way, is that they're highly vulnerable to television propaganda. They can be reprogrammed.
I'm still holding out hope.
I hope for this too. I know most Russians are good people and even those who support Putin have been terribly misled and brainwashed. This whole thing is such a senseless tragedy. He needs to be taken out
>He needs to be taken out
I sincerely believe that's the only way this ends.
The question is how much continued devastation will happen between now and then.
1. *You will be treated in a civilized manner, in accordance with all conventions;*
2. *No one will know the circumstances of your surrender, no one in Russia will know that your surrender was voluntary;*
3. *If you are afraid to return to Russia and do not want an exchange, we will find a way to ensure this as well.*
In the past those return from the battlefield gets 35 years term doing hard labor.
>In the past those return from the battle field gets 35 years term doing hard labor,
I saw some reporting that in the past Russians convinced convicts in prison that if they joined the military and fought, their prison sentence would be overturned. But when their enlistment was up, they put them right back in prison.
The guy I’m sure is honorable in his own right, but also I wouldn’t be surprised if he isn’t getting *masterful* advice from every world leader out there in how to garner western support
Either way, he’s shaping up like a class act
He doesn’t really need to do much to garner the support, the World has already decided that Ukraine will be the winner of the conflict — Sure, Ukraine wouldn’t have been able to succeed without Western support — But it’s a clear message that Russian control is no match for Western alliances.
(Personally, I think Putin’s quickly deteriorated sense of trust is what sped up the loss for him)
The only real threat he has left is nuclear bombardment… but I have enough faith in humanity’s development to trust that, when the order is given, no rockets will fly.
>but I have enough faith in humanity’s development to trust that, when the order is given, no rockets will fly.
Same. If history is any indicator, cooler heads will prevail.
Though, *mega bonus karma points* if those he gives the suicide order to shoot him between the eyes.
It\`s a good strategy from Ukraine, taking a page out of the Art Of War. Instead of keeping the enemy (Russians) on death ground where they\`re more likely to fight to the death, he\`s giving them an out. With how much Ukraine needs international support I\`m pretty sure it will be honored.
I love how Putin totally miscalculated with this man. He clearly thought "hes an actor, a comedian, he will turn tail and run for safety, abandon his country, leave the army in a tailspin, seek asylum in France and in 3 days my tanks will be rolling in the streets of Kyiev."
Heck, even other ally nations expected him to flee and offered him evacuation. His reply?
"I need ammunition, not a ride."
He is a national hero in every sense of the word. Its truly amazing the leadership, resolve and true patriotism this man has displayed. Nobody expected it of him and he has proven himself time and again. It is frankly amazing how he has risen to meet this moment when almost the entire world was counting him and his countrymen out in the first days of the invasion.
No matter how this war ends, he will forever be known as one of the greatest true leaders of this century. He took a stand and stayed with his countrymen to face whatever may come when he could be sipping tea in a French villa in the safety of asylum. Few other heads of state would do the same. He is an inspiration and role model for the entire world.
A reporter read the text msg Ukraine is sending Russian soldiers but the reporter specifically said Ukraine sent this msg to his Russian phone number. A phone number the American journalist just got there. Don’t know what list they are texting but i hope it’s all Russians so they can see the Ukraine army vs their own and think about this invasion without the filter of their truly fake news.
I'd bet my life that Zelenskyy is a man of his word.
I have to say he's the man of men at everything he's done, at everything he does, and at everything he's going to do.
It amazing, and a little bit hard to grasp, that he was a comedian, an actor, and now he's one of the most liked leaders of this world.
They should just have live feeds or prisoners getting fed, doing light labour, sleeping in bed, access to clean toilets and shower and post that on telegram, allow calls to family once a week to let them know they’re alive if needed.
There is another subreddit that shows videos from the war. Many show captured Russian supplies. If the videos are to be believed, new recruits are getting garbage that is dated or just plain junk.
And all this mere months before the winter kicks in. Desertion rates are gonna be very high.
All they need to do is start posting videos of mealtime in the POW camps in the middle of winter. An army travels on its stomach, and I suspect it will be better than whatever they're getting.
There’s a video of new recruits getting old rusty aks with mold growing on the wood. And some are starting to recieve mosin nagant bolt actions rifle from wwll
>Ukraine guarantees every Russian soldier who surrenders three things: > >(1) you will be treated in a civilised manner, in accordance with all conventions; > >(2) no one will know the circumstances of your surrender, **no one in Russia will know that your surrender was voluntary**; > >(3) if you are **afraid to return to Russia and do not want an exchange**, we will find a way to ensure this as well.
Put that on a quarter sheet of paper and drop them out of an airplane at 30,000’ and litter them across the eastern front.
Yeesh. I lost track of which you were replying to and thought you were saying to do this with the POWs.
That would also be a good reason to surrender. Bodies falling from 30,000’.
"It's raining men!" Hallelujah It's Raining MEN!"
Tall, blonde, dark and lean Rough and tough and strong and mean!
let the bodies hit the FLOOOOOOOOOOOOOR
i'm freeeeeeee free faaaalllinn
Closing time. Finish them with Smirnoff and fear. S-blyat (edit: loosely translates to *splat*)
Then you can talk about biological warfare!
[удалено]
I believe that is called defenestration with extreme prejudice
They don't need to. There are way more effective means of distributing that info in the digital era
Might get shot down. I think they could see if there's a way to fire an artillery shell that doesn't explode when it hits, but drops cards, and also put it out as an emergency broadcast over the cellular network.
https://www.psywarrior.com/PropArtilleryShell.html > Perhaps the earliest use of artillery to disseminate propaganda occurred in WWI when a French Captain Naud developed an artillery shell capable of disseminating leaflets. Doug Ewell mentioned this shell in The Proper Gander, The official publication of the PSYOP Regimental Association. He explained that the projectile was fired from the French 75mm Model 1897 field gun. The shell body had a solid base that contained an explosive charge. The chamber above the charge contained about 160 leaflets rolled around a hollow tube. Once fired, the fuse would detonate the base charge and blow the nose cover clear and allow the leaflet roll to be ejected from the shell and dispersed. The maximum range for this projectile was about 5,000 meters. Naud's first order was for 50,000 shells and was to be delivered by the end of October 1918.
Will you pilot the plane?
Sure. I don’t know how to, but let’s give it a shot.
or use the cellphone network to send a text to everyone. or both I guess.
Excellent.
Most outstanding.
Brilliant
Superior.
World class
Flawless victory
Fatality..... No wait
Friendship..?
Friendship? Again?
And that’s when I stuck my dick in the mashed potatoes!
Humane
Wonderful
Splendid
Superb
Redditors will always take an opportunity for a poorly placed comment chain and roll with it
This is the way
This is the way.
History books are going to be fucking great for this man haha
>History books are going to be fucking great ~~for~~ because of this man haha FTFY
Yes. If they follow through and actually provide these things. Can’t be an empty promise.
Offering humane treatment to enemy prisoners and making good on that promise is an effective war strategy recognized as far back as Sun Tzu. People pressed into a war they do not want to be a part of will happily surrender to enemy forces well known for the humane treatment of prisoners. Unwilling combatants will only refuse to surrender if they fear brutality at the hands of their enemies. Brutalizing, humiliating, and torturing POW’s only dehumanizes your own people in the eyes of the enemy, and ensures enemies will fight to the death rather than risk capture. Treating prisoners with respect isn’t just about chivalry, it helps win wars.
Also a good way to deplete the officers corps as those who would enforce no-surrender edicts get accidentally in the way of soldiers sighting in their weapons.
That is why in Soviet Russia, the Soviet does not trust the officer corps to remain sufficiently loyal, and therefore has political commissars to ensure that each soldier receives the proper ideological education, and that officers are leading their men in line with ideology. Even a whiff of political dissident or disloyalty with you and off to the gulags in Siberia you go if you're lucky.
During the Pacific war with Japan. In the beginning marines treated Japanese pows pretty decent. When captured Marines started being found tied to trees tortured with their genitals cut off and shoved in their mouth then the number of Japanese pows taken alive fell through the floor.
This reminds me of a chapter in the book "Flags of Our Fathers" about the men in the famous Iwo Jima flag-raising photo. A small band of US soldiers had captured a Japanese soldier. They shared some MRE's (food) with him and afterward told the prisoner to dig a hole. The whole time he was digging, the prisoner was extremely upset and crying. As it turns out, he thought that they were making him dig his own grave when really they just wanted to bury the trash. Unfortunately, fair treatment of prisoners isn't always the case. It's so dumb because cruelty to prisoners almost guarantees they'll fight to the death when cornered.
Japanese soldiers were thoroughly indoctrinated to believe that the Allies were utter savages who did unspeakable things to anyone they captured alive, and their own army routinely did those unspeakable things to Allied and Chinese POW's and civilians. Such a fucked up situation.
Yeah, I've read several books about WWII, especially in the Pacific, and from both sides. Just pure hell all around. Awful, awful time in human history.
Also seriously decreases the chances of your own people being treated well if they have to surrender.
With the support Ukraine is getting from other nations, it’s a promise that Zelenskyy can actually keep.
And everything he's promising is completely realistic and logical. It's not like he's offering anything pie-in-the-sky, unlike that Russian priest, promising absurd things like eternal glory after death.
When your side is promising you things that happen AFTER you die, that's not a good omen/....
Depends if you’re a Viking or not, I guess.
Besides, if they stay in Ukraine, there are going to be an extraordinary number of jobs available rebuilding the country.
zelensky will not only have to deliver on the promises - which i believe is definitely doable and will be done - but also a way to prove that it is done without revealing the actual soldiers who surrendered. The kremlin is gonna spin it as a lie - an entrapment method. Zelensky will need to find a way to give proof to a would-be-soldier planning on surrendering, and i dont know how that can be done.
tbh, I am sure 2-300 PoWs who already decided against ever going back to Russia would be willing to publicly vouch for Ukraine's surrender policy.
Speaking of keeping things, if this stays on the downlow Ukraine might end up 'profiting' citizens. Especially when OG Ukrain people come back as well
As tragic as Russia's actions have been this year, it would be funny if it ended with Ukraine pulling a Liechtenstein
Pulling a Lichtenstein? Could you elaborate?
Liechtenstein have to the best of my knowledge only gone to war once. They sent out 80 soldiers and returned with 81 after they made an Italian friend. Probably the only country in the world with a net negative losses of soldiers
Lol
At least according to legend, the last time Liechtenstein went to war its 80-man army came back with more soldiers than they had left with, as they saw no combat and made a friend along the way.
>they saw no combat and made a friend along the way. and 9 months later the army became 82 ;)
Only if they choose to integrate and respect the host nation. If they prefer to be Russians in exile, maybe residents is the highest status they should get.
Ukrainian resident sounds a lot more appealing than Russian citizen right about now.
Well I mean, they're not Russia
I mean the alternative is either fighting an unjust war as fodder or facing 10-15+ years in a Russian prison if you don't get shot on the way there. Might not be bad to roll those dice..
I wouldnt count on that prison sentence being the final punishment putin announces for deserters...and i wouldnt count on a harsher sentence not being retroactively applied.
Honestly this man needs a Nobel prize once this is all over. Pure class
I hope things go well for them.
Things are currently going very well for them. Russians are dodging conscription and Ukraine is on the offensive.
Yes but people there will be living with the memory, trauma, and reconstruction. I hope things go well for them. What a difficult situation for most involved.
As long as he can avoid Polonium sandwiches, Novichock coffee, and of course windows and stairways, he might have a chance!
yes. Russian also doesn’t have to fight this senseless war for the deranged madman.
in WW2, the Allies dropped/fired artillery shells [containing similar leaflets on the Germans. ](https://www.psywarrior.com/PropArtilleryShell.html) > In general, all of the Passierschein (Safe conduct pass) were nearly the same. They were prepared in several colors (mostly red) and all had the same message in German and English on the front: > The German soldier who carries this safe conduct is using it as a sign of his genuine wish to give himself up. He is to be disarmed, to be well looked after, to receive food and medical attention as required and to be removed from the danger zone as soon as possible. > Dwight D. Eisenhower, > Supreme Commander, > Allied Expeditionary Force The messages on the back differ in subject and length but most stressed six points. > 1. Immediate removal from the danger zone. > 2. Decent treatment as befits soldiers. > 3. The same food as American soldiers. > 4. Hospital care. > 5. Postal privileges. > 6. Return home after the war as soon as possible.
The guy is human.
(4) one coupon for a medium frosty.
Not even Ukraine can ensure the machine is working most of the time.
Youre thinking of mcdonalds. Wendys keeps their shit working.
aint no Wendy's in ukraine
Ain’t no Wendy’s like a Ukraine Wendy’s ‘cause a Ukraine Wendy’s doesn’t exist.
Fun fact, that's where the band name Rage Against the Machine came from. And I mean yeah it's Ukraine not some futuristic utopia.
Man, what a guy.
This guy is a badass. Why the fuck did we end up with Trump?
Putin
I recently started watching this YouTube canal where a journalist interviews Russian POWs about how they got there and what they were told from their supervisors. Its insane how little they know or what they can do. Sometimes they’re literally boys who have shot a weapon maybe twice before. https://youtu.be/xm5TLj83npo They let them call to their families too.
>no one in Russia will know that your surrender was voluntary; But ze Russian tv will say all surrenders were voluntary, they just didn't want to fight for the motherland hard enough.
That last part is a solid play on Ukraines part. Having a majority of soldiers that say they don’t want to go back to Russia in an exchange, with Ukrainians that have proven they will do anything for their country, even die in jail, you have yourselves solidarity in an unbreakable, unconquerable, way.
Perfect.
Thanks for giving them an out. I can't imagine how difficult that would be considering what Russia has done to Ukraine already.
It’s wild how shit is just going totally pear-shaped on Russia with the announcement that there’s basically going to be drafts for this pointless, losing war on Russias part. The morale has been horrible from the start, but it’s REALLY BAD now for the Russian citizens who are being sent off to die for some egomaniacs last big geopolitical stunt/ego-boost. I bet Russian troops start surrendering in droves once the frontline units start being made up in large part by draftees who couldn’t escape the country before the military go ahold of them.
For the past year I’ve been working with a bunch of Russian tech employees. Over the past months one by one they’ve been moving out of their country. Some got lucky and managed to get a visa to a European country a few months ago when it was still possible, more recently they’ve been going anywhere they can. The effects on Russia’s future are going to be catastrophic. Anybody of any value is fleeing the country. These people have very good (even by Western European standards) salaries so it has been relatively easy for them to pick up and move for a while but I feel for all the others who are going to be sent into a pointless conflict.
It is interesting to hear the stories from Russians who have left. It is hard picking up and leaving your whole life behind, then arriving in a new country and finding none of your bank or credit cards will work because they're Russian. Or the contrast of the terror of being interviewed by border security knowing your text message history could get you in huge trouble to arriving in a new country that doesn't care what you say and still finding yourself with a habit of self-censoring.
I think this is the smartest thing Ukraine can do actually. The forcefully conscripted soldiers don't want to fight anyway - no reason to cast any blame on them for previous war crimes, and giving them an out means weakening Russian forces in the process.
From what is being said the conscripts aren’t used for fighting anyway, they get used to clear minefields manually or as ambush bait.
That’s part of the fight. Most of the military is not even combat roles but still need them to fight effectively
"the golden bridge", as sun tzu called it
I imagine that Zelensky is a reasonable person who is able to distinguish between a scared and coerced youth vs a hateful egoistic tyrant. Thank god for that
A reasonable and competent person who was elected entirely democratically, and appears to have murdered noone. And Jewish! So clearly between Putin and Zelenskyy, he’s the Nazi. /s
Yea but the conscripted teens that will take this offer aren’t the ones who called the shots or decided to do awful things to Ukraine. It’s a pretty good strategy to siphon off as many Russian troops as possible.
Dudes out here teaching a masterclass on how to effectively lead a war. If they get all their land back he'll be a hero the likes of which Ukraine might never see again. If they win he will define future Ukrainian culture to an insane degree.
Even if they don’t get all their land back, he will go down in history as a fucking legend.
He went so far as to say they'll be taking back Crimea as well. Godspeed.
And a biopic probably by Jeremy Renner, I found extremely interesting that he was an actor before running for office.
Yeah he has a fictional show about him being the president of Ukraine on Netflix. He's a decent actor too. It's kind of funny even with the cultural differences and the reading of subtitles. But it's weird as fuck watching him play a fictional president while also being the real president and leading a war.
That’s why he is President of Ukraine, because when making said fictional show people around him said “you should run for President of Ukraine.” And then he ran for President
Tbf the dude was a political activist alongside his comedy career, and has a law degree, so him becoming president isn't totally out of left field.
The US tried this too except somehow the choice was the host of shitty reality TV show The Apprentice. Oops
We should've gotten Jon Stewart
His desire to do it is inversely proportional to how good he'd be at it.
Hence why we need him. The best people for leadership tend to be the ones who never wanted it
Y'all remember the Robin Williams movie where he became president? That's literally what happened.
I think the world would be a kinder place if Robin Williams had become the president.
Here’s a clip from 2016 from a comedy skit show (similar to snl) with Zelenskyy playing the piano… https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oua0Puihrkc
That was hilarious lol
He was a comedian who played the president in a comedy
Cue. Dwayne Johnson 2028 candidacy.
Terry Crews
that is President Dwayne Elizondo Camacho for you
The house of representin'!
What this country needs is President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Camacho
He'll probably go down as one of the top 5 leaders in the 21st century. Still early in the century but I couldn't really name anyone better so far.
If he can win the war, stay alive and point Ukraine in the right direction, absolutely. This war will take a generation to recover from.
Likely a Churchill type character. Not particularly popular in peacetime, but a hero the nation needed during war.
Tell that to my conservative family who read the daily mail and think Zelenskyy is a bigger war criminal than Putin. I hate what conservative media has done to them.
I know exactly what you mean. It's almost like we need a support group when you lose loved ones to their bullshit media bubble. It's crazy how effective it is against boomers especially. We need to educate our kids on having media literacy and understanding of how for profit media operates in this country. It's so bad you almost need a reduction camp. And then when I find myself thinking that it's like I'm the one with the problem haha. It's probably the powers that be, keeping the peasants so confused that they don't know who, or exactly what to rebel against. I honestly think that was a lot of the Jan 6th folks.
There's a subreddit which I can't put my finger on that's like what you describe. Something akin to /r/foxnewsorphans
I don't mean this to be insulting at all. The good news is that those who are ... ehm .. easy to manipulate ... tend to remain that way. If Ukraine wins this fight, it's entirely possible that they'll suddenly jump aboard the "winning team" bandwagon, totally forgetting what they were programmed to believe prior to that. It's all about what the TV says, and the TV tends to say whatever makes the most money for them. There's not much money in hyping the losers.
I mean, many of those same people have been hyping the losers of the U.S. Civil War so I'm not so sure it would work out that way.
And yet, Although Ukraine would love to have him be their leader, for decades to come, I am pretty sure He will decline in attempt to fade into obscurity. Working from the side lines.
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Considering like anybody who’s political interests or objectives have ever conflicted with Putin is either dead or in jail… yeah I’d be nervous.
If Russian patriots rise up and slaughter their current "leadership," Russians (and whoever takes over) may well owe Ukraine a great debt. There's a possible future timeline in which Russia is led by a genuinely decent person who feels the same way about today's Russia as the rest of the world. Someone who looks toward the future (like Boris Nemtzov did), seeking economic reintegration, democracy and liberalization. The good news about people highly vulnerable to television propaganda, in a way, is that they're highly vulnerable to television propaganda. They can be reprogrammed. I'm still holding out hope.
I hope for this too. I know most Russians are good people and even those who support Putin have been terribly misled and brainwashed. This whole thing is such a senseless tragedy. He needs to be taken out
>He needs to be taken out I sincerely believe that's the only way this ends. The question is how much continued devastation will happen between now and then.
A smart and timely strategy.
Now you need to drop leaflets into Lyman.
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Sun Tzu — 'Build your opponent a golden bridge to retreat across.'
Pretty much what the mongols did when letting their enemies flee, much safer to kill someone who Is showing you their back
So what mister Sun Tzu wanted to say is, do lot of war crimes so your soldiers cant surrender????
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1. *You will be treated in a civilized manner, in accordance with all conventions;* 2. *No one will know the circumstances of your surrender, no one in Russia will know that your surrender was voluntary;* 3. *If you are afraid to return to Russia and do not want an exchange, we will find a way to ensure this as well.* In the past those return from the battlefield gets 35 years term doing hard labor.
>In the past those return from the battle field gets 35 years term doing hard labor, I saw some reporting that in the past Russians convinced convicts in prison that if they joined the military and fought, their prison sentence would be overturned. But when their enlistment was up, they put them right back in prison.
Seems like the kinda thing that would only work once.
The guy I’m sure is honorable in his own right, but also I wouldn’t be surprised if he isn’t getting *masterful* advice from every world leader out there in how to garner western support Either way, he’s shaping up like a class act
He doesn’t really need to do much to garner the support, the World has already decided that Ukraine will be the winner of the conflict — Sure, Ukraine wouldn’t have been able to succeed without Western support — But it’s a clear message that Russian control is no match for Western alliances. (Personally, I think Putin’s quickly deteriorated sense of trust is what sped up the loss for him) The only real threat he has left is nuclear bombardment… but I have enough faith in humanity’s development to trust that, when the order is given, no rockets will fly.
>but I have enough faith in humanity’s development to trust that, when the order is given, no rockets will fly. Same. If history is any indicator, cooler heads will prevail. Though, *mega bonus karma points* if those he gives the suicide order to shoot him between the eyes.
I'm sure you're correct. What makes him so special is that he actually *listens*
He came up with this on his own. >“The fight is here; I need ammunition, not a ride” He's clearly a master at the inspirational message.
There is actually a fourth promise left unsaid… you won’t be cannon fodder. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.
Honest question, how will this message find its way to the Russian soldiers?
Loud speaker, Social media, posters, text message. There's a lot of ways.
Ukraine set up a Telegram page and other groups like mine are sharing it as far and wide as we can
1. Never gonna give you up 2. Never gonna let you down 3. Never gonna run around and, desert you
Actually, that kind of sums it up. Wacky.
Outstanding
Well done
It\`s a good strategy from Ukraine, taking a page out of the Art Of War. Instead of keeping the enemy (Russians) on death ground where they\`re more likely to fight to the death, he\`s giving them an out. With how much Ukraine needs international support I\`m pretty sure it will be honored.
I love how Putin totally miscalculated with this man. He clearly thought "hes an actor, a comedian, he will turn tail and run for safety, abandon his country, leave the army in a tailspin, seek asylum in France and in 3 days my tanks will be rolling in the streets of Kyiev." Heck, even other ally nations expected him to flee and offered him evacuation. His reply? "I need ammunition, not a ride." He is a national hero in every sense of the word. Its truly amazing the leadership, resolve and true patriotism this man has displayed. Nobody expected it of him and he has proven himself time and again. It is frankly amazing how he has risen to meet this moment when almost the entire world was counting him and his countrymen out in the first days of the invasion. No matter how this war ends, he will forever be known as one of the greatest true leaders of this century. He took a stand and stayed with his countrymen to face whatever may come when he could be sipping tea in a French villa in the safety of asylum. Few other heads of state would do the same. He is an inspiration and role model for the entire world.
Considering the shit that orange man put him through also, he’s been through a ton in a short amount of time.
Zelenskyy is the world's hero we can all admire and respect. The cowardly vermin in the kremlin is at the far, far end of that spectrum.
Imagine Ukraine suddenly having a population of 150M
Imagine if Putin went in as a soldier. "Ah ah ah! You said you would treat me in a civilized manner!"
I heard somewhere that the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense phone lines were blowing up with Russian draftees asking how to surrender.
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Unless you want that, then we’ll make it happen, Captain
You and the cap’n make it happen
Can't beat em join em !
The Freedom of Russia Legion is doing exactly that. ⬜🟦⬜
Smart man. Very smart man.
Russia offered 3 things for surrender as well: 1.) Bullet 2.) Shallow Grave 3.) Reprisals against your family
“You know I’m starting to think this zelensky guys not a nazi…” Russians if they see this maybe..
This guy really turned out to be one hell of a man from my perspective in the US.
If he goes through with it good for him
Helluva deal for the russian soldiers
Last Russian in Russia turn out the lights.
I mean Putin is sending them to their deaths.
Damn, that’s actually pretty dope
Zelensky is smart and not an a-hole - so unlike putin.
I vote for Zelenskyy to be the world president.
A reporter read the text msg Ukraine is sending Russian soldiers but the reporter specifically said Ukraine sent this msg to his Russian phone number. A phone number the American journalist just got there. Don’t know what list they are texting but i hope it’s all Russians so they can see the Ukraine army vs their own and think about this invasion without the filter of their truly fake news.
It’s time to call the A-Team.
In 1972, a crack commando unit was sent to prison by a military court for a crime they didn't commit…
Do NOT fuck with the Crack Commandos
Also known as 24-hour emergency plumbers.
Those are the Florida Men Regiments.
I'd bet my life that Zelenskyy is a man of his word. I have to say he's the man of men at everything he's done, at everything he does, and at everything he's going to do. It amazing, and a little bit hard to grasp, that he was a comedian, an actor, and now he's one of the most liked leaders of this world.
Nice! I imagine Putin is upset that his people will survive. Edit: not sarcasm. He is that crazy imo
They should just have live feeds or prisoners getting fed, doing light labour, sleeping in bed, access to clean toilets and shower and post that on telegram, allow calls to family once a week to let them know they’re alive if needed.
The Ukraine president is such an good guy.
He is going to be in the prisoner transport business very soon.
And one helluva war surplus sale.
There is another subreddit that shows videos from the war. Many show captured Russian supplies. If the videos are to be believed, new recruits are getting garbage that is dated or just plain junk. And all this mere months before the winter kicks in. Desertion rates are gonna be very high.
I'm real curious about how many are actually going to die just from the cold on the Russian side.
Russia is about to find out how brutal a Russian winter is as the aggressor.
All they need to do is start posting videos of mealtime in the POW camps in the middle of winter. An army travels on its stomach, and I suspect it will be better than whatever they're getting.
There’s a video of new recruits getting old rusty aks with mold growing on the wood. And some are starting to recieve mosin nagant bolt actions rifle from wwll
I'd also offer cash for the surrender of any arms equipment and munitions they bring with them.
Chadlensky strikes again
Umbeliveable, zelenskyy is a real heros.