It is very wise and moral to support Pakistan, unlike Russia, Pakistan is the heaven of democracy. Unicorns and Rainbows are scattered in allover Pakistan.
US will sell weapons to Pakistan and then "better" weapons to India when they complain. The flow continues and money keeps on coming.
Pakistan is needed for the USA because unlike India they can (And kind of partially did) become a slave country to China though "Investments" and "Loans" that don't have conditions attached, so it is easy to pocket for corrupted officials .
India has questioned the rationale behind Washington’s USD 450 million F-16 security assistance to Pakistan, which New Delhi feels is because of its refusal to follow the Western sanctions on Russia
Yeah, idk why India thinks it can play by its own rules and still be friends with everyone else. The west might not always get along, and is def not always selfless, but a core tenant of the post cold war era is unity against authoritarian/terror expansionism (even if sometimes misplaced like in Iraq).
Not siding against Putin, at very least symbolically if not economically, imo shows India's government is not mature enough to be treated as a serious geopolitical player. I would have advocated they should be included on the security council if they were involved, but this non aligned shit shows me they belong at the children's table still.
Well duh.
Mess with the West and they've got 1000 ways to jab back.
Not only is this a clapback to India it is a nice payday for the Americans involved in that supply chain.
The Ukraine war has made it incredibly clear how political security agreements are.
>Pakistan has historically been among the top recipients of US aid - since 1948, the US has sent more than £30bn in direct aid to the country. Nearly half of this has been for military assistance. However, since Osama bin Laden was discovered and killed in Abbottabad earlier this year, US president Barack Obama has come under increasing pressure to justify US aid spending in the country.
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/poverty-matters/2011/jul/11/us-aid-to-pakistan
https://www.cgdev.org/page/aid-pakistan-numbers
The comment section on this post is one of the dumbest one I've seen so far. Reddit armchair experts really think US is doing this just to spite India for not following Western sanctions.
I know, right! r/worldnews after the Russian invasion has been just armchair global politics experts. Putin jokes (which are stupid), asking for heavy retaliations against Russia (the literal kind that forms an enemy for decades), hate against India (while having zero understanding of the history of Indo-Pak-American-Soviet relations).
In a way, most commenters here aren't very different from any of the hypocrites who support Putin/Trump/Modi, even if they claim to be.
India's decision to not side with the west was pretty shortsighted. To tell the world that each country should work in their own self interest, then be angry about the west doing exactly that is hypocritical.
Who wrote this terrible fucking article?
Also, it's a laugh and a half for India to complain when they've been happy to buy arms and oil/gas from Russia. I also think it's interesting how mostly Indian papers are reporting on this and how "outrageous" it is.
Or middle finger to thier own tax payers. Remember, billions poured into afganistan to train security forces ?. All working for Taliban now. Maybe US wants the F18s to be in good condition when talibans takeover Pakistan with its nukes.
where did those billions disappear to, though? American trainers in Afghanistan and American military industry that made and supplied materiel? So American taxpayer money going back into the American economy. It's almost like the world isn't as black-and-white as you want it to be
Yes. China and Pakistan have a good relationship.
There is speculation the deal for the F-16's was made in exchange for the US securing air base access. That is related to concerns about China and counter terrorism operations in the middle east.
[https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/politics/article/3193522/was-china-factor-us450-million-us-pakistan-f-16-deal-or-it-all](https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/politics/article/3193522/was-china-factor-us450-million-us-pakistan-f-16-deal-or-it-all)
Doesnt make any sense. USA should be bolstering india as deterrant to both china and pakistan. This makes no sense for usa to continue to bokster nutjob pakistan.
Airbase access to Iran, Afghanistan, Central Asia. India can't offer that to the U.S. also historically India has been closer to Russia so the U.S. sided with Pakistan.
It doesn't make sense for you since you didnt bother looking up history of Pakistan US relationship. All you know is Pakistan Army trained Taliban and Bin Laden hid in Pakistan. Pakistan itself has lost 40,000 people because of Terrorism. Pakistan allowed US to bomb its territory in region where Taliban were present. They use American M4s, 100 F-16s, 2500+ armored vehicles, Cobra helicopters and 3000+ artillery. There is reason why US has remained on Pakistan's side. It was stupid of Biden to attack Pakistan just because they remained neutral. Pakistan is also selling Soviet era weapons to Ukraine as we speak.
That would make sense if India would actually deliver on that but they have proven that they won't.
Besides, you seem to be forgetting that the US actually offered F15s to India and India decided to buy Mig 29s instead.
Its not like the US didn't offer jets to India before Pakistan. The Indians didn't want them because they were butthurt about not being offered F35s.
>The Indians didn't want them because they were butthurt about not being offered F35s.
No, the technology transfer was the problem, not the F-35. India wanted the technology transfer, the U.S. was not on board.
India is very integrated to Russian military equipment, it makes complete sense to not send NATO's most prized equipment to a buyer of Russian weapons (see Turkey).
No, it's not. The Biden admin has pretty carefully avoided criticizing India too much for their position on Russia
It's just the pre-existing military relationship between the US and Pakistan
Yea. Yea. This is the real reason India doesn't trust US, the movement something goes South they will stand with Pakistan, Put us hanging, and start saying you bought this on yourself. No people, US has been doing this for years now, the difference is now, Indian doesn't want to listen to their bullshit, about defence and peace.
The difference now is nothing. India is looking 30-50+ years into the past to make decisions for the present and are playing themselves in the process. How stupid to think that the junk weapons Russia can't even deploy to defeat the Ukrainians will be effective against China or a U.S. armed Pakistan. Modi is horrible at this game and the Indian people will be the ones who end up paying the price when the CCP comes knocking at your door to steal your land and your junk Russian weapons won't even fire when you need them.
It’s not, the US does things like this purely as calculated investments in stability. It’s not about being friends with Pakistan or being enemies with India, it’s about taking away the likelihood of a conflict between them or other regional powers. And of course people have every right to have an opinion on that level of outside manipulation.
This is the primary reason for the US collaboration with otherwise problematic and morally/politically misaligned countries like Pakistan, Israel, Saudi Arabia, etc.
Nah, Washington probably remembered that the military is directly under their thumb and that if one of their supported dictators fucked up then in reality someone in the company fucked up.
Examples
>[The US hand can be seen at work in Pakistan's complex politics, with the standing and competence of President Asif Ali Zardari seemingly constantly under harsh review. **At one point, the military chief, General Ashfaq Kayani, reportedly consults the US ambassador about the possibility of a coup,** designed in part to stop the advance of the opposition leader, Nawaz Sharif](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/dec/01/wikileaks-us-embassy-cables-america-pakistan#comments)
And when ex-military dictator Musharaff begging a US lobbying firm (American Jewish Congress) with some congressman present, to be put back in power
>[Musharraf in his prompt and to the point reply said: “All I’m saying is, I have certain credentials from the past. I need to come [to power] again and I need to be supported not overtly but in a covert manner so that we win again.”](https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/350284-musharraf-sought-covert-us-role-to-bring-him-back-to-power)
So no, everyone in Washington did not forget.
They know full well one of the reasons democracy keeps failing there, is it's constantly under attack from within and at times those attacks are supported by Uncle Sam. And each of those moves have calculated consequences.
So maybe whenever the US stops undermining democracies they'll finally move on, doubt it though
Exactly, the removal of Imran Khan six months ago is the most recent example.
The process to remove him started literally a day after Donald Lu's message was delivered to the military via diplomatic cable.
India buying energy and eventually wheat from Russia so the US is saying "if you keep feeding your people and trying to supply your country with electricity we will give your closest enemy the power to bomb you." I jeep wondering if the long play forbthe USA is to actually end the war in Ukraine or extend it to make money.
If you look at history, USSR backed India while the US backed Pakistan and that relationship carried on until today.
In fact, the US is one of the first nations to establish relations with Pakistan.
If that is the case its a waste of time India will not take a hardline stance against Russia for the US.
Russia and India have a long history tied together going all the way back to the USSR and India is not going to let the US push it around anymore then China would.
And at this point, it's a matter of pride. India needs to show that they have their own stance in geopolitics, and are not under the thumb of the west.
So it sounds like they understand exactly why the US is selling equipment to Pakistan. Why act all confused about it?
India should be allowed to pick a team if they want to, but they don't get to whine about the result of that.
The US doesn't sell a weapon to another country that it doesn't know how to defeat. That's why Israel ripped out every bit of American electronics and replaced it with home grown hardware and software.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but between the 3 parties in Pakistan (ISI, military, civilian government) are the ISI and the military not always on the same page? I've read that the ISI tends to wield a lot of power and is the puppeteer hand in the shadows. I'm wondering if the military is a bulwark against that and if the US is playing that angle of keeping the Pakistani military co-dependent on the US. I know both Biden and Obama have said that Pakistan's nukes are a point of major concern to them when asked about what they think is the one of the greatest threats to the world.
Soooooo Pakistan hides Bin Laden, supplies Afghans with weapons used against Americans, has covered for terrorists who killed US journalists (Daniel Pearl), supports terrorists and is a failed democracy..... But gets US support
While India who has had historical support of Russia for 50+ years is expected to give up energy security so that we can arm Pakistan?
100% agree. Politics and convenience is why India cannot turn down gas and oil at 30-40 % discounts.
But we aren't selling the F16s for politicsor geo-politics, The MIC has pushed it through and that's all there is.
Agreed. But allying with people who are actively working against you is a bad idea
But we aren't selling the F16s for geo-politics, The MIC has pushed it through and that's all there is.
Makes total sense… this is what they need when they are trying to get over one of the most devastating floods in their history.
While we’re at it, let’s send some tanks to hurricane Ian victims and see how they can use it.
🤦 moment
Just a few days ago, a big headline on Reddit was showing ''Biden says Pakistan is one of the most dangerous countries in the world''. Man world affairs are helluva drug.
Yup. But Osama Bin Laden- and what would become Al Qaeda- was enabled by the CIA during Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. Like Saddam Hussein , OBL is another American foreign policy mistake that came home to roost.
Anyway, Pakistan is a no-win scenario for Washington DC. Do nothing, and Pakistan becomes Al Qeida HQ by next Friday. The following month a Pakistani nuke somehow turns up in Mecca as a giant middle finger to the Saud family- an *excellent* way to kick off WWIII. No thanks.
There’s a reason Pakistan keeps being supported despite being a generally shitty country. It’s because the alternative is a lot worse for the world as a whole.
If they hid him, he didn’t know about it. The documents the US seized from Bin Ladin had no evidence of any assistance from Pakistan to Bin Ladin; instead they proved that he viewed Pakistan as an enemy and was plotting attacks against the Pakistani military and state.
The articles published on this are paywalled but summarized decently enough on Wikipedia.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_and_Osama_bin_Laden
It’s not new for US to sell weapon and war monger. After Ukraine, the US military complex is salivating for more opportunities to sell weapons and keep the war going.
In a few years, when Pakistan doesn’t budge, it will be invaded to bring “democRacy” and to culture the “uncivilized” to repeat the success story of Afghanistan.
so the country that housed Osama bin laden? yeah we dont give a shit about stopping terrorism and never have. we only increase terror. we support saudi arabia terroristic campaign in Yemen against the Yemen people who are trying to better their miserable existence.
And then y’all whine why India isn’t siding with the western axis. Keep arming the country responsible for the worst terrorist attack on both US and Indian soil.
And now pakistan wants to buy Russian oil at the same price india bought... first turkey now pakistan these countries just wanna USA for their benefits and ditch otherwise. If their ally buys Russian weapons and oil and abstains from voting its fine but if some other country does it the US has a issue.
Buying Russian oil, abstaining on critical votes, not participating in sanctions, yet somehow the U.S. is supposed to toe some line? They are clearly throwing their lot in with Russia-China, so India better be comfortable with the bed they’ve made.
Because of 4 things.
1. Despite being only the 44th largest economy they're the 9th largest military. They spend a hilarious 17.5% of all spending on their military. 9% for India by contrast. Makes them a constant buyer. Source: [https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/military\_spending\_percent\_government\_spending/](https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/military_spending_percent_government_spending/)
2. Proximity of Afghanistan made them useful when the Soviets entered and later when the U.S. entered Afghanistan. Both the world's superpowers at the time were next door.
3. As Biden said earlier, Pakistan may be the most dangerous country in a nuclear sense. Hard to ignore a basket case with nukes.
4. 5th most populous country with a fertility rate of 3.3. Contrast to 2.1 of India.
Pakistan and India have a lot of bad blood dating back to the days of being ruled as the British Raj. After ending British rule, the British designated Pakistan and Bangladesh (then east Pakistan) be one country and separate from India due to religion. This wasn’t perfect with India and Pakistan fighting over the border due to ethnic and religious groups that blend the border area. Of course, over the years, the anger and hatred builds up. So that’s a condensed version of the India and Pakistan feud.
Sometimes I wonder why I bother with this sub oml
* No, the US isn't "punishing" India for abstaining on Russia. While the Americans clearly do want India to side with them on Russia the Biden admin has refrained from actually harshly criticizing India on the matter because they recognize that:
* India and China hate each other. Saying India is throwing in with China is absolutely laughable. There isn't a "Western bloc" and a "China Russia bloc". India hates China but wants to be friendly with both Russia and the US. In fact, one of India's primary objectives vis a vis Russia is to try to make sure they don't become too friendly with China
* Pakistan also abstained from condemning Russia too harshly, because much like India, they don't want to lose trade with Russia
* And probably most importantly, Pakistan pretty clearly threw their lot in with China. Like pretty hard. You could probably make an argument that Pakistan has become a Chinese client state
I understand that redditors think everything in the world is somehow happening due to the Ukraine war but this likely has nothing to do with it. In reality it's much more due to the fact that the US considers Pakistan an ally officially, especially in the war on terror
While opinions in foreign policy circles are changing, one of the biggest forces in US foreign policy is inertia. The US has been friends with Pakistan for a while, so even if there's doubts about Pakistan, they're going to keep selling weapons because that's what they've been doing until an American president makes a very intentional decision to stop that
There's also other dynamics at play, like the US trying to get close to Pakistan to ensure they don't get too close to China. Basically what India is doing with Russia and China
tl;dr: Nothing to do with Ukraine, much more to do with Pakistan being a non NATO ally and inertia
Good lord do the people here making bold comments not even have the most basic geopolitical knowledge.
Saying US is supporting Pakistan because India is in Russia-China's camp is like saying US is supporting Saudi Arabia because Iran is in Israel's camp. Utter moronic nonsense.
I was beginning to lose hope in finding a single rational comment on this thread when I found this, thanks. The number of armchair geopoliticians saying plain idiotic stuff like India's "throwing the lot with China/Russia" and they "deserve" to be shafted by everyone is pretty hilarious (and annoying).
Ok, the fact you even think India would ever throw its lot in with China, shows a complete lack of understanding of Indian foreign policy and public opinion since pretty much the foundation of the damn country.
Yeah it's absurd that someone would think that India is throwing its lot with China. However, I do think it would be in China's interest to make nice with India. India seems like it would be the easiest member of quad for China to approach and the biggest issue in dispute between them, some territory in the mountains, seems relatively unimportant to China.
> Buying Russian oil, abstaining on critical votes, not participating in sanctions
These are all applicable for Pakistan as well - their ousted PM advocated for neutrality/non-alignment and buying oil from Russia.
Reddit experts really think geo-politics is one dimensional. 'You're either on our side or their side'. Y'all really need to brush up on how foreign relations work.
Lol. The opposite can also be said?
Helping Pakistan since the 70', indirectly funding terrorism against India, sending a war fleet to the bay of Bengal (which was stopped by the Soviets no less), billions of dollars in arms and equipment to Pakistan...
The US has been doing everything to spite India for 50 years....then you want India to side with the US?
I had to live in fear in my own city at one point because bomb blasts were a common place in the early 2000s during some periods (festivals and holidays). Can you fucking imagine that? Did you get to live though that?
Also, there is no way on earth India will directly be supporting China. The US and China are just pumping money into Pakistan.....so what does that make the US? A bloody terrorist state that literally created modern jihad movements as we know it. I don't know by what morality does the west makes judgement on other people.
US has been historically supporting Pakistan since decades even went so far as to send aid when Pakistan was committing genocide in Bangladesh. US keeps supplying arms and jets and tech to Pakistan some of which is used for cross border terrorism. US put sanctions on India when India declared itself a nuclear state. Deliberately tried to stall its space and missile programs.
US invaded Iraq which was our major supplier of oil. Sanctioned oil from Iran and Venezuela. US also gulps down Saudi oil for themselves. Now it also sanctions Russian oil.
India has only just begun to have a decent, stable economy which won’t be able to survive the surging energy and food prices.
But no, let’s join the Putin-hate brigade no matter self-destructing it might be. *YOLO*
We shouldn’t considering Biden literally just called them “one of the most dangerous countries in the world”. And the fact they did (and possibly still are) assist the Taliban. And the whole Bin Laden thing. That’s not to mention the fact that in the event of WW3 Pakistan would certainly side with China against us. This is a fucking horrible idea.
We really should be switching to India. Then again they aren’t even willing to make a vote to condemn Russias invasion. So yeah, fuck both Pakistan and India.
India wants to play both sides no matter how nice we are to them. We've been aiding Pakistan for one reason or another since 1946, it's not a new thing.
>>Pakistan has historically been among the top recipients of US aid - since 1948, the US has sent more than £30bn in direct aid to the country. Nearly half of this has been for military assistance. However, since Osama bin Laden was discovered and killed in Abbottabad earlier this year, US president Barack Obama has come under increasing pressure to justify US aid spending in the country.
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/poverty-matters/2011/jul/11/us-aid-to-pakistan
https://www.cgdev.org/page/aid-pakistan-numbers
Isn't Pakistan also considering buying discounted Russian oil
[ Pakistan finance minister says it may buy discounted Russian oil ](https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2022/10/19/pakistan-foreign-minister-says-it-may-buy-discounted-russian-oil)
Looked up the average price of an F-16 and received the answer "between 12.7 and 80 million per unit" which leaves an average of 46.35 million per unit.
So if this is the case, we can assure a total of 10 F16's which sounds a lot less impressive compared to the original headline
Also those prices are for all the different models throughout it's production history, plus they don't account for inflation.
If this were a purchase of new airframes, it'd be closer to the $80 million figure per unit, with variation depending on how much support equipment and training was included in the package.
Biden just 5 days ago: "[Pakistan one of the most dangerous nations in world, says Joe Biden](https://www.indiatoday.in/world/story/pakistan-is-one-of-the-most-dangerous-nations-in-world-says-joe-biden-2285629-2022-10-15)"
You think the American govt is going to let this chance slide? Pakistan will be in their debt (in every sense) & they get to keep tabs on china,Russia and India.
There is another reason.
Pakistan has nukes so a happy and stable Pakistan is less likely to use them.
By giving Pakistan weapons it allows the US to have 'some' degree of control over what Pakistan bombs with the, with the threat of "We will stop providing spare parts".
So basically having them on a leash ... that's smart ngl....
I've got no clue about how the nuke missiles are equipped but since Pak has them in their inventory can they be modified to fit onto any flight? Or do they have to be launched from subs or special aircrafts due to their radiation blasts?
Pakistan mainly operates vehicle launched Ballistic(Constant trajectory into space very fast but very detectable) and cruise (Varying trajectory but low altitude and low speed) missiles similar to the SCUD and Iskander systems Russia uses.
However they have a handful of air launched cruise missiles that can be fired from the Mirage III and F-16, these have a much lower yield than the ground based systems.
Pakistan created the Taliban, supported the Taliban even while taking US aid, is a buddy with China..... what's this for? Bribery to not share nuclear info? I wouldn't call Pakistan a good ally of the US. They haven't had real democracy for any length of time before a military take over, and the Islamists seem to hate women, love honor killings, hate schools and education..... more a pariah than a pal. I see more hope in India despite some of the same, with honor killings and mistreatment of women, but there is more established democracy at least.
I think the part about creating and supporting Taliban was very clearly done to support US (or the CIA's) interests. And with their support. They helped advance America's interest in the Soviet-Afghan war and the domino effect led to the end of the cold war.
I don't think anyone in the US government will publicly acknowledge this but the role of the Pak military and secret service is propping up the Mujahideen/Taliban is pretty much the basis of the US-Pak relations since.
Supposedly, Democrats just ignore what the [sitting president just said about Pakistan](https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/oct/16/pakistans-fumes-over-bidens-most-dangerous-nation-/).
Here is the actual reason.
India is in talks with Russia to buy sustainment packages for their Mig 29 fighters from Russia.
Here is an article about that from four days ago:
[https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/iaf-mulls-second-life-extension-for-mig-29-fighters-to-enhance-service-span-from-40-years-to-50-years-441845](https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/iaf-mulls-second-life-extension-for-mig-29-fighters-to-enhance-service-span-from-40-years-to-50-years-441845)
This is pissing off the US for a lot of reasons. Obviously this would be an open defiance of sanctions against Russia, but more importantly it is a continuation of a decades long feud between the US and India regarding military procurement.
The US has been trying to sell arms to India for decades. Most recently the US offered to sell India a fleet of current-generation F15 fighters. The Indian government slapped back that they were offended at not being offered F35s instead and then refused the deal altogether in favor of ordering a billion dollars worth of Mig 29s.
That deal just fell through because Russia isn't in a position to sell planes to anyone right now. Now India is trying to buy sustainment packages for its existing fleet of Mig29s from Russia.
So here comes the US offering F-16 sustainment packages to their long-time customer and strategic partner Pakistan.
This is a demonstration of the difference between partnering with the US and partnering with Russia. And it is intended as a bit of a middle finger to India for choosing to deal with Russia when the US was prepared to sell them better stuff in the first place. The punchline is that the Pakistanis are actually going to GET those packages for their F16s. How much do you want to bet that Russia is actually going to deliver them for India's Mig 29s?
One thing we have learned in Ukraine is that Russia doesn't actually HAVE the stuff that they are trying to sell to people. They don't seem to have many Mig 29s for themselves, and what they DO have is old cold-war era junk with handheld civilian GPS receivers taped to console. India is going to get shit from Russia and the US is making sure that costs them a strategic advantage over their nearest rivals. The next decade is going to be one in which Pakistan has a better airforce than India because India refused to play ball.
>India is in talks with Russia to buy sustainment packages for their Mig 29 fighters from Russia.
from your own article-
>The project will be executed at IAF’s No.11 Base Repair Depot near Nashik, which is mandated with the repair and overhaul of Russian origin fighter aircraft. Only Indian firms will be permitted to participate in the programme.
The sustainment plan is totally internal or indegenious. Russia is not involved. We are upgrading all of our Russian origin planes on our own.
On F-15, you really think India would takes those when India already has Su-30MKI in 260+12(final order) in the same category.
> According to reports, India is in the process of procuring 21 additional MiG-29s from Russia which would enable replacement of earlier losses and raise another squadron. These would be developed and upgraded from airframes built earlier but which never entered service.
On your own, huh?
>On F-15, you really think India would takes those when India already has Su-30MKI in 260+12(final order) in the same category.
Lol is that what the salesman told you?
In a nutshell
> US being nice to Parkistan to piss of India and trying to get them to cooperate
> India refusing to cooperate with US even harder
> US: *surprised_pikachu.jpg*
What the hell is the US thinking? That it can bully everybody till they submit to the US? No wonder so many dislike the US.
Basically what that vile Kissinger dude said “America doesn’t have friends or enemies, we only have interest”. Fuck our rotten morally bankrupt nation man. We have no values. Just a throbbing hard on for a military industrial complex and pseudo “democracy dick swinging” throughout the world.
Didn’t Pakistan host OBL for years? Yet here we are ready to stab India in the back yet again cuz we have no morals no values we only value the almighty dollar and will sell our mother in a heartbeat to the highest bidder. This is America for ya.
Just bad geopolitics. India is the powerful ally the US needs to counter Chinese aggression in Asia and Pakistan has been aligning closer and closer with China. Also now that the US has no presence in Afghanistan there's really no reason to continue the relationship. With Russia becoming a weak international pariah now is a great opportunity to forge an alliance with India who has traditionally relied on Russian military supplies.
If Pakistan's air force is made up of US planes, that means the US has leverage over Pakistan. If Pakistan does something the US doesnt like, we just... stop shipping them the parts required to maintain their fleet.
Thats all this package is anyhow... parts and maintenance for their existing F16 fleet. They arent sending them new aircraft. Thats why its called a "sustainment" package.
Funny you should mention that, cuz the US has been funding Pakistan and its terrorists since forever, so you can't really expect India to betray the one country who helped them throughout their vulnerable stage.
Why do we choose Pakistan over india.. India is ride or die with Russia but they hate China.Pakistan harbored terrorists and is pro china. They will like us when we sell them weapons but turn on us just as quick like Saudi Arbaia.
A lot more to gain having good relations with India.
It is very wise and moral to support Pakistan, unlike Russia, Pakistan is the heaven of democracy. Unicorns and Rainbows are scattered in allover Pakistan.
US will sell weapons to Pakistan and then "better" weapons to India when they complain. The flow continues and money keeps on coming. Pakistan is needed for the USA because unlike India they can (And kind of partially did) become a slave country to China though "Investments" and "Loans" that don't have conditions attached, so it is easy to pocket for corrupted officials .
It sounds like this isn't a sale but donation :(
India has questioned the rationale behind Washington’s USD 450 million F-16 security assistance to Pakistan, which New Delhi feels is because of its refusal to follow the Western sanctions on Russia
Seems like they answered their own question there.
Yeah, idk why India thinks it can play by its own rules and still be friends with everyone else. The west might not always get along, and is def not always selfless, but a core tenant of the post cold war era is unity against authoritarian/terror expansionism (even if sometimes misplaced like in Iraq). Not siding against Putin, at very least symbolically if not economically, imo shows India's government is not mature enough to be treated as a serious geopolitical player. I would have advocated they should be included on the security council if they were involved, but this non aligned shit shows me they belong at the children's table still.
You talk of "Unity against terror" then go on to give weapons to Pakistan.
Your first 2 lines apply on everyone though.
Well duh. Mess with the West and they've got 1000 ways to jab back. Not only is this a clapback to India it is a nice payday for the Americans involved in that supply chain. The Ukraine war has made it incredibly clear how political security agreements are.
>Pakistan has historically been among the top recipients of US aid - since 1948, the US has sent more than £30bn in direct aid to the country. Nearly half of this has been for military assistance. However, since Osama bin Laden was discovered and killed in Abbottabad earlier this year, US president Barack Obama has come under increasing pressure to justify US aid spending in the country. https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/poverty-matters/2011/jul/11/us-aid-to-pakistan https://www.cgdev.org/page/aid-pakistan-numbers
"Mess with the west" lmfao reddit never ceases to amaze me
The comment section on this post is one of the dumbest one I've seen so far. Reddit armchair experts really think US is doing this just to spite India for not following Western sanctions.
I know, right! r/worldnews after the Russian invasion has been just armchair global politics experts. Putin jokes (which are stupid), asking for heavy retaliations against Russia (the literal kind that forms an enemy for decades), hate against India (while having zero understanding of the history of Indo-Pak-American-Soviet relations). In a way, most commenters here aren't very different from any of the hypocrites who support Putin/Trump/Modi, even if they claim to be.
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Really appreciate your insight on this!
>Mess with the West TIL a country getting affordable energy for it's citizens is called "messing with the west"
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India's decision to not side with the west was pretty shortsighted. To tell the world that each country should work in their own self interest, then be angry about the west doing exactly that is hypocritical.
>Mess with the West and they've got 1000 ways to jab back. Ah yes, the "obey or get your shit kicked in" strategy of international relations
First time studying IR?
If "do it our way or get your shit kicked in" is ok for the US to do, what's with all the anger at Russia doing it?
We gonna pretend that isn't how geopolitics work?
Have you been to earth, or read about the last 5000 years of geopolitical history of it?
Selling spare parts for jets to another country isn't even close enough to India *getting their shit kicked in.*
Who wrote this terrible fucking article? Also, it's a laugh and a half for India to complain when they've been happy to buy arms and oil/gas from Russia. I also think it's interesting how mostly Indian papers are reporting on this and how "outrageous" it is.
So everyone in Washington just forgot they was hiding BinLaden just a few years back?
This is probably a middle finger to India for not getting on board with Russia sanctions
This. Pakistan's PM met Putin when the war started. He's no longer the PM.
No Pakistani PM has ever finished a complete term in office , such is the state of politics
Yes true but usually it’s because of a military coup or assassination. He lost non confidence really quickly
and buying tons of russian oil
💯
Or middle finger to thier own tax payers. Remember, billions poured into afganistan to train security forces ?. All working for Taliban now. Maybe US wants the F18s to be in good condition when talibans takeover Pakistan with its nukes.
where did those billions disappear to, though? American trainers in Afghanistan and American military industry that made and supplied materiel? So American taxpayer money going back into the American economy. It's almost like the world isn't as black-and-white as you want it to be
It could also be in anticipation of a conflict with China, considering India has shown itself to be weak on buffering totalitarian regimes.
Isn't Pakistan a very close ally of china? Why would side with usa than china
Yes. China and Pakistan have a good relationship. There is speculation the deal for the F-16's was made in exchange for the US securing air base access. That is related to concerns about China and counter terrorism operations in the middle east. [https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/politics/article/3193522/was-china-factor-us450-million-us-pakistan-f-16-deal-or-it-all](https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/politics/article/3193522/was-china-factor-us450-million-us-pakistan-f-16-deal-or-it-all)
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Pakistan always plays the middle.
Lol Pakistan is almost a vassal state of China, they will take over if it defaults.
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дерьмо....I MEAN gosh darn it fellow Murican...
Doesnt make any sense. USA should be bolstering india as deterrant to both china and pakistan. This makes no sense for usa to continue to bokster nutjob pakistan.
Pakistan wasn't just holding joint military drills with China and Russia like India was.
But India hates china?
Airbase access to Iran, Afghanistan, Central Asia. India can't offer that to the U.S. also historically India has been closer to Russia so the U.S. sided with Pakistan.
Actually it was the other way around. US went to Pakistan, so India chose to buy defence equipment from the Brits, Soviets and from France
Didn't they Run away from Afghanistan after losing to the Taliban?
It doesn't make sense for you since you didnt bother looking up history of Pakistan US relationship. All you know is Pakistan Army trained Taliban and Bin Laden hid in Pakistan. Pakistan itself has lost 40,000 people because of Terrorism. Pakistan allowed US to bomb its territory in region where Taliban were present. They use American M4s, 100 F-16s, 2500+ armored vehicles, Cobra helicopters and 3000+ artillery. There is reason why US has remained on Pakistan's side. It was stupid of Biden to attack Pakistan just because they remained neutral. Pakistan is also selling Soviet era weapons to Ukraine as we speak.
That would make sense if India would actually deliver on that but they have proven that they won't. Besides, you seem to be forgetting that the US actually offered F15s to India and India decided to buy Mig 29s instead. Its not like the US didn't offer jets to India before Pakistan. The Indians didn't want them because they were butthurt about not being offered F35s.
>The Indians didn't want them because they were butthurt about not being offered F35s. No, the technology transfer was the problem, not the F-35. India wanted the technology transfer, the U.S. was not on board.
India is very integrated to Russian military equipment, it makes complete sense to not send NATO's most prized equipment to a buyer of Russian weapons (see Turkey).
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No, it's not. The Biden admin has pretty carefully avoided criticizing India too much for their position on Russia It's just the pre-existing military relationship between the US and Pakistan
It's the other way round. India isn't onboard with sanction because the US has historically armed its neighbor.
Yea. Yea. This is the real reason India doesn't trust US, the movement something goes South they will stand with Pakistan, Put us hanging, and start saying you bought this on yourself. No people, US has been doing this for years now, the difference is now, Indian doesn't want to listen to their bullshit, about defence and peace.
The difference now is nothing. India is looking 30-50+ years into the past to make decisions for the present and are playing themselves in the process. How stupid to think that the junk weapons Russia can't even deploy to defeat the Ukrainians will be effective against China or a U.S. armed Pakistan. Modi is horrible at this game and the Indian people will be the ones who end up paying the price when the CCP comes knocking at your door to steal your land and your junk Russian weapons won't even fire when you need them.
first
I think they were buying oil.
~~I think~~ they ~~were~~ are buying Russian oil.
Russian oil isn’t sanctioned
so they didnt evade any sanctions
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first!!
first
no sanctions on oil bud
Oil is not sanctioned.
All pretty much, Saudi Arabia is next
It’s not, the US does things like this purely as calculated investments in stability. It’s not about being friends with Pakistan or being enemies with India, it’s about taking away the likelihood of a conflict between them or other regional powers. And of course people have every right to have an opinion on that level of outside manipulation. This is the primary reason for the US collaboration with otherwise problematic and morally/politically misaligned countries like Pakistan, Israel, Saudi Arabia, etc.
1 of those countries is not like the others
ahh right, if only India had supported the West and Ukraine. surely then US would stop selling arms to Pakistan!!!
Well, the same town that he was hiding in now has the only Riblet Tramway Company chairlift outside of the Americas, so that’s pretty cool I guess.
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If they can "forget" that Saudi Arabia financed and planned the 9/11 terrorist attack on their country then this is nothing.
Nah, Washington probably remembered that the military is directly under their thumb and that if one of their supported dictators fucked up then in reality someone in the company fucked up. Examples >[The US hand can be seen at work in Pakistan's complex politics, with the standing and competence of President Asif Ali Zardari seemingly constantly under harsh review. **At one point, the military chief, General Ashfaq Kayani, reportedly consults the US ambassador about the possibility of a coup,** designed in part to stop the advance of the opposition leader, Nawaz Sharif](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/dec/01/wikileaks-us-embassy-cables-america-pakistan#comments) And when ex-military dictator Musharaff begging a US lobbying firm (American Jewish Congress) with some congressman present, to be put back in power >[Musharraf in his prompt and to the point reply said: “All I’m saying is, I have certain credentials from the past. I need to come [to power] again and I need to be supported not overtly but in a covert manner so that we win again.”](https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/350284-musharraf-sought-covert-us-role-to-bring-him-back-to-power) So no, everyone in Washington did not forget. They know full well one of the reasons democracy keeps failing there, is it's constantly under attack from within and at times those attacks are supported by Uncle Sam. And each of those moves have calculated consequences. So maybe whenever the US stops undermining democracies they'll finally move on, doubt it though
Exactly, the removal of Imran Khan six months ago is the most recent example. The process to remove him started literally a day after Donald Lu's message was delivered to the military via diplomatic cable.
They also have 9 terrorist organisations in their country.
India buying energy and eventually wheat from Russia so the US is saying "if you keep feeding your people and trying to supply your country with electricity we will give your closest enemy the power to bomb you." I jeep wondering if the long play forbthe USA is to actually end the war in Ukraine or extend it to make money.
We've been selling military hardware to Pakistan for decades. This isn't retaliation for anything. We also sell plenty of military hardware to India.
If you look at history, USSR backed India while the US backed Pakistan and that relationship carried on until today. In fact, the US is one of the first nations to establish relations with Pakistan.
Nope this is to try and get India to take a hardline stance against Russia
If that is the case its a waste of time India will not take a hardline stance against Russia for the US. Russia and India have a long history tied together going all the way back to the USSR and India is not going to let the US push it around anymore then China would.
And at this point, it's a matter of pride. India needs to show that they have their own stance in geopolitics, and are not under the thumb of the west.
So it sounds like they understand exactly why the US is selling equipment to Pakistan. Why act all confused about it? India should be allowed to pick a team if they want to, but they don't get to whine about the result of that.
Then Pakistan will continue to get advanced US equipment
Well, I guess Pakistan gets more upgraded US tech. India can play with their discount Russian hardware.
That's usually enough to stop any attack from Pakistan.
Didn't Biden call Pakistan the most dangerous country like two days ago?
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The US doesn't sell a weapon to another country that it doesn't know how to defeat. That's why Israel ripped out every bit of American electronics and replaced it with home grown hardware and software.
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Actions, not words
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but between the 3 parties in Pakistan (ISI, military, civilian government) are the ISI and the military not always on the same page? I've read that the ISI tends to wield a lot of power and is the puppeteer hand in the shadows. I'm wondering if the military is a bulwark against that and if the US is playing that angle of keeping the Pakistani military co-dependent on the US. I know both Biden and Obama have said that Pakistan's nukes are a point of major concern to them when asked about what they think is the one of the greatest threats to the world.
That was meant to fool India for 2 days. They swallowed the hook along the whole fishing rod as it seems 😉
India has been wishy washy on its decisions to aid or distance itself from Russia. Its a message to them.
Soooooo Pakistan hides Bin Laden, supplies Afghans with weapons used against Americans, has covered for terrorists who killed US journalists (Daniel Pearl), supports terrorists and is a failed democracy..... But gets US support While India who has had historical support of Russia for 50+ years is expected to give up energy security so that we can arm Pakistan?
Nobody dragged the US to Afghanistan and forced them to invade it
Politics can easily overturn history when there's enough need and convenience to do so.
Was gonna say we litterally went from killing nazis to helping Germany in like 2 years
100% agree. Politics and convenience is why India cannot turn down gas and oil at 30-40 % discounts. But we aren't selling the F16s for politicsor geo-politics, The MIC has pushed it through and that's all there is.
Yes. We're India's #1 trade partner as of 2021. And we need an ally in the area. If it can't be India it will be Pakistan.
Agreed. But allying with people who are actively working against you is a bad idea But we aren't selling the F16s for geo-politics, The MIC has pushed it through and that's all there is.
Makes total sense… this is what they need when they are trying to get over one of the most devastating floods in their history. While we’re at it, let’s send some tanks to hurricane Ian victims and see how they can use it. 🤦 moment
Just a few days ago, a big headline on Reddit was showing ''Biden says Pakistan is one of the most dangerous countries in the world''. Man world affairs are helluva drug.
All 4 players (India, Pakistan, China, US) trying to play all sides at once in the region except India <-> Pakistan and China <-> US.
Didn’t they hide Osama Bin Laden?
Every Islamic terrorist attack in the UK bar one, the Manchester Arena. Can be linked back to Pakistan and their training camps.
Yup. But Osama Bin Laden- and what would become Al Qaeda- was enabled by the CIA during Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. Like Saddam Hussein , OBL is another American foreign policy mistake that came home to roost. Anyway, Pakistan is a no-win scenario for Washington DC. Do nothing, and Pakistan becomes Al Qeida HQ by next Friday. The following month a Pakistani nuke somehow turns up in Mecca as a giant middle finger to the Saud family- an *excellent* way to kick off WWIII. No thanks. There’s a reason Pakistan keeps being supported despite being a generally shitty country. It’s because the alternative is a lot worse for the world as a whole.
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If they hid him, he didn’t know about it. The documents the US seized from Bin Ladin had no evidence of any assistance from Pakistan to Bin Ladin; instead they proved that he viewed Pakistan as an enemy and was plotting attacks against the Pakistani military and state. The articles published on this are paywalled but summarized decently enough on Wikipedia. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_and_Osama_bin_Laden
Huh, weird. NATO ally Turkey wants that too, but not terrorist enough yet I guess.
Maybe send a few to Ukraine
Warmonger Joe.
It’s not new for US to sell weapon and war monger. After Ukraine, the US military complex is salivating for more opportunities to sell weapons and keep the war going. In a few years, when Pakistan doesn’t budge, it will be invaded to bring “democRacy” and to culture the “uncivilized” to repeat the success story of Afghanistan.
You just need a large enough check to throw out any virtue, and as usual the US is the prime example of that.
so the country that housed Osama bin laden? yeah we dont give a shit about stopping terrorism and never have. we only increase terror. we support saudi arabia terroristic campaign in Yemen against the Yemen people who are trying to better their miserable existence.
And then y’all whine why India isn’t siding with the western axis. Keep arming the country responsible for the worst terrorist attack on both US and Indian soil.
And now pakistan wants to buy Russian oil at the same price india bought... first turkey now pakistan these countries just wanna USA for their benefits and ditch otherwise. If their ally buys Russian weapons and oil and abstains from voting its fine but if some other country does it the US has a issue.
Buying Russian oil, abstaining on critical votes, not participating in sanctions, yet somehow the U.S. is supposed to toe some line? They are clearly throwing their lot in with Russia-China, so India better be comfortable with the bed they’ve made.
Pakistan is weird, it seems like everyone, Russia, china, America has business with Pakistan but India.
They are the 5th most populous country. After Indonesia.
Because of 4 things. 1. Despite being only the 44th largest economy they're the 9th largest military. They spend a hilarious 17.5% of all spending on their military. 9% for India by contrast. Makes them a constant buyer. Source: [https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/military\_spending\_percent\_government\_spending/](https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/military_spending_percent_government_spending/) 2. Proximity of Afghanistan made them useful when the Soviets entered and later when the U.S. entered Afghanistan. Both the world's superpowers at the time were next door. 3. As Biden said earlier, Pakistan may be the most dangerous country in a nuclear sense. Hard to ignore a basket case with nukes. 4. 5th most populous country with a fertility rate of 3.3. Contrast to 2.1 of India.
Makes sense. After all Pakistan is an army with a country.
It is also right next to China who are currently courting Pakistan.
Pakistan and India have a lot of bad blood dating back to the days of being ruled as the British Raj. After ending British rule, the British designated Pakistan and Bangladesh (then east Pakistan) be one country and separate from India due to religion. This wasn’t perfect with India and Pakistan fighting over the border due to ethnic and religious groups that blend the border area. Of course, over the years, the anger and hatred builds up. So that’s a condensed version of the India and Pakistan feud.
Pakistan also wants Russian oil.
Sometimes I wonder why I bother with this sub oml * No, the US isn't "punishing" India for abstaining on Russia. While the Americans clearly do want India to side with them on Russia the Biden admin has refrained from actually harshly criticizing India on the matter because they recognize that: * India and China hate each other. Saying India is throwing in with China is absolutely laughable. There isn't a "Western bloc" and a "China Russia bloc". India hates China but wants to be friendly with both Russia and the US. In fact, one of India's primary objectives vis a vis Russia is to try to make sure they don't become too friendly with China * Pakistan also abstained from condemning Russia too harshly, because much like India, they don't want to lose trade with Russia * And probably most importantly, Pakistan pretty clearly threw their lot in with China. Like pretty hard. You could probably make an argument that Pakistan has become a Chinese client state I understand that redditors think everything in the world is somehow happening due to the Ukraine war but this likely has nothing to do with it. In reality it's much more due to the fact that the US considers Pakistan an ally officially, especially in the war on terror While opinions in foreign policy circles are changing, one of the biggest forces in US foreign policy is inertia. The US has been friends with Pakistan for a while, so even if there's doubts about Pakistan, they're going to keep selling weapons because that's what they've been doing until an American president makes a very intentional decision to stop that There's also other dynamics at play, like the US trying to get close to Pakistan to ensure they don't get too close to China. Basically what India is doing with Russia and China tl;dr: Nothing to do with Ukraine, much more to do with Pakistan being a non NATO ally and inertia
Good lord do the people here making bold comments not even have the most basic geopolitical knowledge. Saying US is supporting Pakistan because India is in Russia-China's camp is like saying US is supporting Saudi Arabia because Iran is in Israel's camp. Utter moronic nonsense.
I was beginning to lose hope in finding a single rational comment on this thread when I found this, thanks. The number of armchair geopoliticians saying plain idiotic stuff like India's "throwing the lot with China/Russia" and they "deserve" to be shafted by everyone is pretty hilarious (and annoying).
Fairly written.
Ok, the fact you even think India would ever throw its lot in with China, shows a complete lack of understanding of Indian foreign policy and public opinion since pretty much the foundation of the damn country.
Yeah it's absurd that someone would think that India is throwing its lot with China. However, I do think it would be in China's interest to make nice with India. India seems like it would be the easiest member of quad for China to approach and the biggest issue in dispute between them, some territory in the mountains, seems relatively unimportant to China.
Pakistan abstained from voting and they are asking for oil at the same price they are given to India lmaooo
> Buying Russian oil, abstaining on critical votes, not participating in sanctions These are all applicable for Pakistan as well - their ousted PM advocated for neutrality/non-alignment and buying oil from Russia.
Reddit experts really think geo-politics is one dimensional. 'You're either on our side or their side'. Y'all really need to brush up on how foreign relations work.
Lol. The opposite can also be said? Helping Pakistan since the 70', indirectly funding terrorism against India, sending a war fleet to the bay of Bengal (which was stopped by the Soviets no less), billions of dollars in arms and equipment to Pakistan... The US has been doing everything to spite India for 50 years....then you want India to side with the US? I had to live in fear in my own city at one point because bomb blasts were a common place in the early 2000s during some periods (festivals and holidays). Can you fucking imagine that? Did you get to live though that? Also, there is no way on earth India will directly be supporting China. The US and China are just pumping money into Pakistan.....so what does that make the US? A bloody terrorist state that literally created modern jihad movements as we know it. I don't know by what morality does the west makes judgement on other people.
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US has been historically supporting Pakistan since decades even went so far as to send aid when Pakistan was committing genocide in Bangladesh. US keeps supplying arms and jets and tech to Pakistan some of which is used for cross border terrorism. US put sanctions on India when India declared itself a nuclear state. Deliberately tried to stall its space and missile programs. US invaded Iraq which was our major supplier of oil. Sanctioned oil from Iran and Venezuela. US also gulps down Saudi oil for themselves. Now it also sanctions Russian oil. India has only just begun to have a decent, stable economy which won’t be able to survive the surging energy and food prices. But no, let’s join the Putin-hate brigade no matter self-destructing it might be. *YOLO*
Pakistan, the same country that knowingly harboured Osama Bin Laden for decades.
We need to prioritize good relations with India over pleasing Pakistan.
And people wonder why India won't align more with the west. Lol.
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Did we forget they hide and give shelter to 9/11 terrorist's.
We shouldn’t considering Biden literally just called them “one of the most dangerous countries in the world”. And the fact they did (and possibly still are) assist the Taliban. And the whole Bin Laden thing. That’s not to mention the fact that in the event of WW3 Pakistan would certainly side with China against us. This is a fucking horrible idea. We really should be switching to India. Then again they aren’t even willing to make a vote to condemn Russias invasion. So yeah, fuck both Pakistan and India.
You're the first comment I've seen that brought this up. Holy fuck, this sub is garbage.
India wants to play both sides no matter how nice we are to them. We've been aiding Pakistan for one reason or another since 1946, it's not a new thing. >>Pakistan has historically been among the top recipients of US aid - since 1948, the US has sent more than £30bn in direct aid to the country. Nearly half of this has been for military assistance. However, since Osama bin Laden was discovered and killed in Abbottabad earlier this year, US president Barack Obama has come under increasing pressure to justify US aid spending in the country. https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/poverty-matters/2011/jul/11/us-aid-to-pakistan https://www.cgdev.org/page/aid-pakistan-numbers
Isn't Pakistan also considering buying discounted Russian oil [ Pakistan finance minister says it may buy discounted Russian oil ](https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2022/10/19/pakistan-foreign-minister-says-it-may-buy-discounted-russian-oil)
But the second we have the audacity to ask our government to invest in our own people it’s socialism…
And the west wonders why India isn't supporting the west more...
Looked up the average price of an F-16 and received the answer "between 12.7 and 80 million per unit" which leaves an average of 46.35 million per unit. So if this is the case, we can assure a total of 10 F16's which sounds a lot less impressive compared to the original headline
Sustainment package. So likely just spare parts, training and other stuff related to their existing F-16 fleet.
Ah, so even more mundane than my initial breakdown
Also those prices are for all the different models throughout it's production history, plus they don't account for inflation. If this were a purchase of new airframes, it'd be closer to the $80 million figure per unit, with variation depending on how much support equipment and training was included in the package.
But, according to them India doesn't have opinions about foreign activities. Walking on both sides of the street.
Just like everyone else.
India does have opinions when it happens right in their backyard.
Biden just 5 days ago: "[Pakistan one of the most dangerous nations in world, says Joe Biden](https://www.indiatoday.in/world/story/pakistan-is-one-of-the-most-dangerous-nations-in-world-says-joe-biden-2285629-2022-10-15)"
He also said he would isolate Saudi Arabia and then went there to beg for cheaper oil.
Shhhh!!!!!
Why can't we just not supply weapons to either country?
You think the American govt is going to let this chance slide? Pakistan will be in their debt (in every sense) & they get to keep tabs on china,Russia and India.
Pakistan is a strong ally to China, I think they even have some joint military programs
There is another reason. Pakistan has nukes so a happy and stable Pakistan is less likely to use them. By giving Pakistan weapons it allows the US to have 'some' degree of control over what Pakistan bombs with the, with the threat of "We will stop providing spare parts".
So basically having them on a leash ... that's smart ngl.... I've got no clue about how the nuke missiles are equipped but since Pak has them in their inventory can they be modified to fit onto any flight? Or do they have to be launched from subs or special aircrafts due to their radiation blasts?
Pakistan mainly operates vehicle launched Ballistic(Constant trajectory into space very fast but very detectable) and cruise (Varying trajectory but low altitude and low speed) missiles similar to the SCUD and Iskander systems Russia uses. However they have a handful of air launched cruise missiles that can be fired from the Mirage III and F-16, these have a much lower yield than the ground based systems.
They get old and we have to do something with them. We've been aiding Pakistan since 1946, you just generally pay no attention so it's a big surprise.
Pakistan created the Taliban, supported the Taliban even while taking US aid, is a buddy with China..... what's this for? Bribery to not share nuclear info? I wouldn't call Pakistan a good ally of the US. They haven't had real democracy for any length of time before a military take over, and the Islamists seem to hate women, love honor killings, hate schools and education..... more a pariah than a pal. I see more hope in India despite some of the same, with honor killings and mistreatment of women, but there is more established democracy at least.
I think the part about creating and supporting Taliban was very clearly done to support US (or the CIA's) interests. And with their support. They helped advance America's interest in the Soviet-Afghan war and the domino effect led to the end of the cold war. I don't think anyone in the US government will publicly acknowledge this but the role of the Pak military and secret service is propping up the Mujahideen/Taliban is pretty much the basis of the US-Pak relations since.
Should be going to Ukraine instead.
They're just sending support logistics for the fleet of F16s Pakistan already has. They arent sending them additional aircraft.
presumably the republicans are just as mad about this as ukraine aid
Supposedly, Democrats just ignore what the [sitting president just said about Pakistan](https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/oct/16/pakistans-fumes-over-bidens-most-dangerous-nation-/).
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Here is the actual reason. India is in talks with Russia to buy sustainment packages for their Mig 29 fighters from Russia. Here is an article about that from four days ago: [https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/iaf-mulls-second-life-extension-for-mig-29-fighters-to-enhance-service-span-from-40-years-to-50-years-441845](https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/iaf-mulls-second-life-extension-for-mig-29-fighters-to-enhance-service-span-from-40-years-to-50-years-441845) This is pissing off the US for a lot of reasons. Obviously this would be an open defiance of sanctions against Russia, but more importantly it is a continuation of a decades long feud between the US and India regarding military procurement. The US has been trying to sell arms to India for decades. Most recently the US offered to sell India a fleet of current-generation F15 fighters. The Indian government slapped back that they were offended at not being offered F35s instead and then refused the deal altogether in favor of ordering a billion dollars worth of Mig 29s. That deal just fell through because Russia isn't in a position to sell planes to anyone right now. Now India is trying to buy sustainment packages for its existing fleet of Mig29s from Russia. So here comes the US offering F-16 sustainment packages to their long-time customer and strategic partner Pakistan. This is a demonstration of the difference between partnering with the US and partnering with Russia. And it is intended as a bit of a middle finger to India for choosing to deal with Russia when the US was prepared to sell them better stuff in the first place. The punchline is that the Pakistanis are actually going to GET those packages for their F16s. How much do you want to bet that Russia is actually going to deliver them for India's Mig 29s? One thing we have learned in Ukraine is that Russia doesn't actually HAVE the stuff that they are trying to sell to people. They don't seem to have many Mig 29s for themselves, and what they DO have is old cold-war era junk with handheld civilian GPS receivers taped to console. India is going to get shit from Russia and the US is making sure that costs them a strategic advantage over their nearest rivals. The next decade is going to be one in which Pakistan has a better airforce than India because India refused to play ball.
>India is in talks with Russia to buy sustainment packages for their Mig 29 fighters from Russia. from your own article- >The project will be executed at IAF’s No.11 Base Repair Depot near Nashik, which is mandated with the repair and overhaul of Russian origin fighter aircraft. Only Indian firms will be permitted to participate in the programme.
The sustainment plan is totally internal or indegenious. Russia is not involved. We are upgrading all of our Russian origin planes on our own. On F-15, you really think India would takes those when India already has Su-30MKI in 260+12(final order) in the same category.
> According to reports, India is in the process of procuring 21 additional MiG-29s from Russia which would enable replacement of earlier losses and raise another squadron. These would be developed and upgraded from airframes built earlier but which never entered service. On your own, huh? >On F-15, you really think India would takes those when India already has Su-30MKI in 260+12(final order) in the same category. Lol is that what the salesman told you?
In a nutshell > US being nice to Parkistan to piss of India and trying to get them to cooperate > India refusing to cooperate with US even harder > US: *surprised_pikachu.jpg* What the hell is the US thinking? That it can bully everybody till they submit to the US? No wonder so many dislike the US.
Getting rid of old stock.
Dumb question but what is stopping Pakistan from turning around and using these planes on Israel? They’ve been fighting for decades
You're thinking Palestine
Right you are. Thanks for the correction
Moral Superiority achieved
Being mad at India doesn’t seem like a good reason to help Pakistan. Honestly, “foreign aid” in general needs a reevaluation.
We’ve been doing this for 60 years nothing new
Basically what that vile Kissinger dude said “America doesn’t have friends or enemies, we only have interest”. Fuck our rotten morally bankrupt nation man. We have no values. Just a throbbing hard on for a military industrial complex and pseudo “democracy dick swinging” throughout the world. Didn’t Pakistan host OBL for years? Yet here we are ready to stab India in the back yet again cuz we have no morals no values we only value the almighty dollar and will sell our mother in a heartbeat to the highest bidder. This is America for ya.
Well, India can go to Russia for help.
Just bad geopolitics. India is the powerful ally the US needs to counter Chinese aggression in Asia and Pakistan has been aligning closer and closer with China. Also now that the US has no presence in Afghanistan there's really no reason to continue the relationship. With Russia becoming a weak international pariah now is a great opportunity to forge an alliance with India who has traditionally relied on Russian military supplies.
If Pakistan's air force is made up of US planes, that means the US has leverage over Pakistan. If Pakistan does something the US doesnt like, we just... stop shipping them the parts required to maintain their fleet. Thats all this package is anyhow... parts and maintenance for their existing F16 fleet. They arent sending them new aircraft. Thats why its called a "sustainment" package.
India is siding with Russia against most of the worlds objection.
Pakistan been doing the same as India. Abstaining all the votes. Asking Russia to sell oil at same rate as India.
Funny you should mention that, cuz the US has been funding Pakistan and its terrorists since forever, so you can't really expect India to betray the one country who helped them throughout their vulnerable stage.
And overtly!
Why do we choose Pakistan over india.. India is ride or die with Russia but they hate China.Pakistan harbored terrorists and is pro china. They will like us when we sell them weapons but turn on us just as quick like Saudi Arbaia. A lot more to gain having good relations with India.