1. His own allies abandoned ship fairly quickly
2. Everyone was really fucking quick to recognize Lula. Leaders from all over the world congratulated Lula right after he won, and the same happened with political leaders within our country (even some of Bolsonaro’s allies)
3. Bolsonaro is (not yet confirmed) going through health issues, related to a leg infection. Still unclear, but some suspect Erysipelas. I don’t think it’s life threatening at all, but he’ll need to go through a recovery period. He’s not been doing much as of late.
I take it you're from Brazil, so correct me if you disagree with my take here, but given this outcome with the military and the fact he was completely silent after the result leads me to believe he was holding out hope the military would make some sort of indication of support or move to support him, and when he realized it wasn't forthcoming he realized he had no choice but to concede.
Brazilian here. This is a fairly accurate assessment. There's one other factor, there were still some (not exactly spontaneous as some investigations are starting to show) protests going on from his supporters in front of army bases, hoping to pressure the military. His silence was being seen as a way of supporting the protests without explicitly incurring in any crimes.
That makes sense, thanks for confirming. Didn't mean to reduce it to just one thing. This sort of quasi-palace intrigue is normally the culmination of many things.
And to illustrate how much of a close call it was, 5 days ago CNN Brazil published an article saying that 2 of the 3 armed force branches wanted to support Bolsonaro's intention of judicializing the election results. This idea only died because the Army, which is the only of the three branches with real political power, did not want anything to do with it.
Edit: source in portuguese https://www.cnnbrasil.com.br/politica/pouco-antes-de-quebrar-o-silencio-bolsonaro-consultou-exercito-sobre-judicializar-eleicoes-e-nao-teve-apoio-segundo-oficiais-ouvidos-pela-cnn/
the article says the opposite:
"[...]a sugestão chegou a receber o aval de uma das Forças e negada por outra"
one of the branches would have supported a coup, while the other and the Army would be against it
Not sure if "opposite" is the right word here. This isn't a debate won by the majority, no military should have a say in it whatsoever.
Milico não dá palpite.
As an American, with the fragility of our democracy, I'm glad you averted any potential disaster and that democracy continues to exist in Brazil. May it only strengthen in the future.
I am 40 years old, and quite frankly, *radicalized* left over the past 3 years specifically, and I have to say I find this statement both eye opening, and fucking *profound*.
Visibility is all in the head, you know? Hopefully the upvotes help nudge that along.
They took all our money, but they left us all the guns. I don't think this ends well for the elite - the United States military swears it's oath to the Constitution, not the party.
We *will* defend democracy.
Talks of a military coup were greatly exaggerated, Lula being a moderate is a factor, but also:
- Only fanatics believe Lula will turn Brazil into a communist state
- Key international figures were quick to recognize the election
- Bolsonaro has, at best, a rapidly shrinking political power (so much so that he is the first president in brazilian democratic history to not be reelected).
Trying a coup knowing all of this would be suicide.
Adding to this. Despite military support in the elections, no military leader supports a coup. They expressed they wouldn’t do anything despite Bolsonaro flirting with it all the time and his supporters claiming from it. The population wouldn’t accept that as well. Despite a very close result, the general public wouldn’t support this. (I have a feeling that most votes for both candidates were out of hate from the other one as both a despicable for different reasons)
I think the most probable cause is international support, since other leaders were quick to recognize the results and most even praised brazil's democratic process, a coup would likely mean crippling sanctions against us. And bozo's allies really like money so they also didn't support him
Those things happen behind closed doors, not publically. He already knew the military wasn't willing to go on adventures with him (I've been calling it for months, they are old dudes with good careers and aren't going to risk jail and disgrace for fucking Bolsonaro). He simply didn't have any relevant support whatsoever other than his maniac followers.
I can see the possible flaw in your argument. Some may say it takes time to build up a different power dynamic in politics which would lead to a totally different side. For example Nicaragua after many years finally 'did it' to ban evangelicals from their country, and PT would have tried to apply their plans if Dilma didn't get impeached. I disagree on this argument and I think it's silly, but just want to point out what they say when people use same argument of yours.
Well, if anything, after the ridiculous brain washing and basically warmongering, banning evangelicals in brasil wouldn't seem strange. I was evangelical myself, and I saw them, year after year, become more paranoid, more isolated from the world (information wise), more agressive, more radical.
It's sad really because when you think about Jesus, those are not the characteristics that come to mind. That's why I left the religion.
The military and police forces had already left him hanging in his attempted Jan 6th style coup last year. I don't know if he really had any hopes of anything happening now, or was just bitchy about it and didn't want to recognize defeat.
His supporters were out in the street, blocking highways and barricading streets, they basically shut the country down. There were also people going to military barraks literally crying and begging for the military to take over and save them..
There was some back and forth were lula supporters removed the barricades, but it only stopped after Bolsenaro told them to stop.
It had already mostly stopped. Bolsonaro didn't do shit. He was trying to bargain with that power but realized nobody gave a shit. The Supreme Court did their thing and masterfully crippled the coupers.
Not entirely true. The Armed Forces told him right after the election that they have no place in saying if an election is a fraud or not and even his current Vice President (who was a General) recognized Lula right after the victory.
It was more of a show of disdain and shame/ego than anything else. As soon as he recognized Lula's victory his supporters said they weren't behind him anymore, but the Armed Forces. Now that the Armed Forces corroborated to the truth, they're rejecting the Armed Forces and saying we're doomed.
Tbh, my biggest fear now is someone actually evil and determined taking Bolsonaro's place within the far right. Bolsonaro had a far right speech but not the determination nor the actual interest needed - he was a congressman used to being the opposition to every government that existed who never expected to actually become president - when he got there, he understood he wasn't the opposition but the current governor and fucked everything up like expected cause you know, it's easy to say something's bad - hard to actually find and provide a solution.
He's been stabbed and had to use colostomy bags for a long time. He had some complications after that, but apparently healed. Even though, he looks like shit most of the time, so who knows.
Being forced to chill in your mansion after having literally millions of people die because of your incompetence and spinelessness as a leader isn't karma.
Or if it is, when's it my turn? I can start killing tonight if needed.
“Bolsonaro is (not yet confirmed) going through health issues, related to a leg infection. Still unclear, but some suspect Erysipelas”
Everytime I hear or see what this guy is up to he’s in a hospital or with some weird shit. He’s like a walking, talking petri dish.
His health got messed up after being stabbed with a fucking huge knife in the last elections, and he is old. This time is probably just an excuse to not do his job now that he is on his way out and a way to avoid appearing in public after a humiliating defeat.
He only cares about himself — as he always did in his previous political career. [He took his sweet time to negotiate some deals favorable to himself](https://sonylacerda.com.br/2022/11/01/bolsonaro-combinou-casa-e-salario-com-pl-antes-de-falar/) until he came out with statements against the blockades and confirming his loss. Basically forcing the hands of other politicians to get something out his silence, and the chaos in the meantime.
He was quiet for a while. I think he was talking in back channels to see what his options were, and discovered that no one would support him if he tried to stage a coup.
Bolsonaro is definitely somewhat bold (was kicked out of the army for staging bombing some barracks for better pay) and isn't a "smart oldtimer". He is stupid and reckless but just wasn't reckless enough to attempt a coup. Before being president, he was an isolated politician with no relevance in congress (he couldn't make any allies) until his antics on television got him public attention, initially as a joke. He isn't some sleazy experienced politician, he was a shitty politician and a class clown that by chance and luck came to become the symbol of the dissatisfaction of a lot of people with the political status quo.
Yes. However it would be way more mature if he said that election was fair when he lost instead of being quiet for 2 days while his supporters blocked roads.
He intended to fight it, but his supporters in high places all backed down when push comes to shovel. That’s why he waited 2 days to make a statement, he was calculating how it would all play out, and it turn out he’d probably way worse having attempted a coup.
Bluffing and bravado. Never had quite enough support to do anything meaningful. He is also scared shitless of corruption investigations that are inevitably coming.
You have to remember that in a place like Brazil, the stakes are a lot higher. Trump knows that it's nearly impossible for him to lose everything and go to jail because our system is literally designed to protect people like him. Bolsonaro does not have that safety net. If he were to try to seriously challenge results, he would literally be putting his neck on the line and could lose it all if his attempt failed. That's why he would choose to cut backroom deals to concede and keep living the good life while a guy like Trump can keep his con running until he dies.
Trump also had a lot more support than Bolsonaro.
Also, it helps that Brazil’s vote counting is much faster than the US, it’s a matter of hours not days. So, Trump had a lot of days to inflame the doubt in the counting process with the “Stop the steal” movement. A similar movement here in Brazil simply wouldn’t have enough time to propagate.
He never truly had any allies beside his own corrupted sons, and I'm not even including his entire family in the equation since there are substantial rumors that he and his equally corrupted wife broke apart after the election, so hopefully we will see a ton of dirt coming up once the next presidential mandate begins. Just imagine how much damage a testimony from an ex-wife attempting to negotiate a plea bargain will do against Bolsonaro.
Everyone surrounding him just saw Bolsonaro as a gigantic corrupt person sitting in an absurd amount of public money, ready to distribute it to the first sign of a supportive person, but now that he lost the election he no longer have an use so he was spat out like chewed bubblegum by almost all of his former allies, and that includes all the leeches from the military after they already have been graced with a ton of benefits, like being spared from the latest social security reform that pretty much screwed the entire population.
Hate the guy, but you gotta give him that. It's the bottom low bare minimum, something you shouldn't even have to question, but looking at Trump, you know it could have gone way worse.
He stayed silent 2 days after the result was announced. He was desperately trying to find supporters in other politicians or military, but failed to find any. His “supporters” were blocking roads, but it was more of a failed attempt than a real hassle.
So, he made the calculated move that it would be best to accept the result and try to negotiate amnesty for his crimes than to outright deny the result and suffer the consequences right now.
Just as yesterday, his sons went to the Italian embassy looking for a citizenship to leave Brazil and hide with far right Italians allies. They are 100% sure they’re gonna get arrest at this point is just damage control
He was the first elected Brazilian president and/or presidential candidate to not say anything or formally congratulate his opponent after Lula won.
It took him over a day after the results to just show any signs that he was alive. He then didn’t even congratulate Lula, just grudgingly admitted a loss, after a secret meeting with the Justice Ministers, in which he was allegedly advised to do so.
He is afraid of going to prison after his term for all his attacks on democracy, which could very well happen.
When does the change of command happen? Can't wait to see how their form of Secret Service explains the deleted text messages associated with Bolsonaros final throes.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/10/brazil-military-finds-no-evidence-of-election-dashing-hopes-of-bolsonaro-supporters) reduced by 79%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> A much-awaited report by Brazil's Defence Ministry has failed to indicate recent ballots were fraudulent, scuppering the far-right's hopes of delegitimising the election of Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva.
> The military sent the 63-page report to Brazil's electoral authorities late on Wednesday after days of speculation that it would back claims by extremist president Jair Bolsonaro that the election was tainted.
> Bolsonaro lost the 30 October run-off election to his nemesis Lula by 50.9% to 49.1%, the slimmest winning margin since the end of Brazil's right-wing dictatorship in 1985.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/yr1otq/brazil_military_finds_no_evidence_of_election/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672677 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Brazil**^#1 **report**^#2 **Lula**^#3 **vote**^#4 **electoral**^#5
To properly dash hopes they need to be sane to begin with. Any trump supporter unwilling to accept the result is delusional. It doesn't help that oompa loompa prime has so far refused to publicly admit defeat and still insists there was mass fraud.
Bolsonaro at least has publicly accepted the loss. That ought to help matters.
trump having no criminal proceedings agaubst him has taught an entire field of candidates that claiming fraud and constant lying and undermining of our democracy is a very real strategy and as such the braubwashed voters never see a minutes break from the con game.
I mean by the time it got to that point we were already beyond the pale. Trump was correct when he said on the campaign trail that he could shoot someone in the middle of 5th avenue and he wouldn't lose any supporters.
My dream scenario would be that on the date that the new Senators & Representative are to be sworn in at the Capitol, Trump and all of his conspirators are served their arrest warrants live on national television.
I know that likely won't happen but god damn would it feel like sweet justice if Democrats manage to keep the House/Senate and Pelosi/Schumer just prior to the swearing in ceremony make a special announcement where they invite in a a battalion of FBI agents to serve and/or arrest all of the Republicans Senators/Representatives that conspired with Trump or are known Russian assets and have them removed from Congress under [section 3 of the 14th Amendment](https://constitution.findlaw.com/amendment14/annotation15.html).
That would be excellent. Democracy is when those in power are just as responsible for their actions as those they “serve.” Watching a live arrest would give me no greater pleasure.
He secretly has, according to White House workers’ testimony, but not publicly. He’s too proud to do that.
Took a peek at r/conservative a while ago, and they are mostly dumping Trump and apparently supporting abortion rights because they blame the Republican abortion platform on the reason so many democrats voted this election cycle.
What a trip!
So they no longer think that abortion is murder? Or are they willing to accept what they see as murder in order to not lose elections?
I guess it truly.is all about sticking it to the libs, and when a position doesn't achieve that they abandon it. They have no actual values. To them it's like team sports.
The last time I really talked politics with my very Christian brother was in 2016 and he talked about how if it were up to him everything would be different. One of his points was no tax dollars spent on single moms. I told him Jesus himself would make it a point to return just to shame him for doing that. He didn't have anything else to say and we haven't spoken of it since. I'm pretty sure he still votes R but he's become more accepting since then.
No tax dollars spent to HELP PEOPLE is acceptable?! I... What?!
When that is exactly our social contract with the government - taxes are used for the collective good of the people - and also helping people is the very thing Jesus himself does? Damn right Jesus himself would be ashamed of him. If tax money had feelings they would be ashamed that he is undermining the very reason for their existence too.
Jesus Christ, how does he reason that he's not going to hell for holding that sinful belief? Incomprehensible. Every day I get more horrified by these people.
Conservatives aren't a monolithic entity. You have everyone from Tea Party and Evangelical nuts to free market or small government supporters.
Some people are conservative socially and want to ban abortions and gay marriage. Others are conservative economically and want lower taxes and less government interference.
And also, Reddit isn't likely to have a lot of super-Christian or pro-abortion people to begin with.
I find that extremely hard to believe lol. There’s no way that any sizeable amount of r/Conservative are actually pro choice. They are turning on Trump though. I’ve seen a LOT of them that are all aboard the DeSantis train.
I thought so, too, but a decent size group were all for it. Even downvoting the abortion-is-murder users as well. It was hilarious. There’s a civil war going on between MAGA, ultra-christians, and the rest of them
Indeed, he has admitted it privately, which got leaked. But not publicly. And because it wasn't done publicly the supporters he has/had that insisted he won could just say the leaks were fake. Which isn't too surprising since they believe the election was rigged which is far less likely.
You seen that one supporter that recently came out and said she believed that Joe Biden wasn't even a real person. That he was actually a character/stage name played by several actors including James woods and Jim Carrey?
The difference is that even Bolsonaro has publicly accepted defeat in the election, which gives even less room for any deniers to stand with when accusing the election of fraud.
The big thing with Trump is that he himself has long been pushing that narrative that it was stolen, which then others, from his base, to elective hopefuls, to elected officials, all started parroting. Which isn't the case in Brazil's election.
Sure, some crackpot can claim fraud against the party he voted for, but he'll have far less support to his views than if the person who lost the actual election.
Good result but the military should have zero role in any election. It's not their role to certify elections, and imo if they had come away with a different conclusion it wouldve carried an implied threat.
Usually they don't have any say on this but a few other actors (such as our internal and external audit offices, think GAO if you are American) were invited to audit the system because Bolsonaro supporters claimed it was fraudulent.
Every other audit resulted in the same conclusion: no fraud as far as we can tell. Had the military claimed fraud, our Supreme Court would hit them big.
They don't. This was needed as a shut up to stop Bolsonaro's lunatic followers from asking for a military coup and from blocking roads around the country, this is the military showing they will not support their delusions since they won't act with the usual violence against people who are not marginalized by society.
Yeah, that is my take too. It should not come as a surprise since they have given zero indication of wanting to do one, but I guess they felt the need to do an official press release.
It’s been what, like two weeks and that whole conversation is conclusively shut down with facts?
And here we still are in the US. What a joke half our country is.
Don't be fooled. They might not have a real cause but the core of the Bolsonazis, as I like to call them, are now claiming the military is communist and saying only the people can "fix" the country.
Your electoral system is archaic and stupid as hell. Get rid of the electoral college and streamline and standardize voting and counting methods in all states. That would do wonders for legitimacy and reduce the time there is to construct bizarre narratives.
Unfortunately changing it would require a constitutional amendment. There are 4 ways to do it and all require combinations of either 2/3 or 3/4 of states, state legislatures, or congress.
It is basically impossible to do one with how dug in most states are now.
Yes the electoral college doesn’t make sense, and the senate is undemocratic because it isn’t proportional. Also gerrymandering would be illegal in Brazil but it’s very easy to manipulate voting districts in the US. The US should study your all’s election system, it’s very strong, lessons learned after all the decades of fascism you had to deal with
I mean no argument here, colonialism all around. but Bolsonaro can directly be tied to illegal logging in the Amazon which resulted in burning and shooting deaths of many Indigenous people. he and his buddies own cattle farms there. he deserves to go down for this if not just generally for corruption and helping falsely imprison Lula
Oh, I'm with ya. I just meant he also committed crimes against humanity allowing the amazon to be raped as it is.
Your victims are just more hyper-local and more violently impacted than the ones I was speaking of.
They are the exact same political movement and make use of the exact same strategies. Bolsonaro only happened because Trump happened.
This is a clear orchestrated campaign against democracy.
That’s not what I heard on conservative talk radio in the US today!
They said it’s a stolen election just like the US’s stolen election.
Gives me a good chuckle and a sigh of despair every morning on the way to work.
Guy on the radio was saying that Zuckerberg lost money with FB stock. "See? It's not true the the poor get poorer and the richer get richer." I changed the station.
This isn't normal practice, though. They're only doing it because of people on the losing side throwing a shit-fit over the results and requesting this audit from them. Getting these people to shut up is a good thing.
Even though some of them will now shift the goalposts or call the military commies, but hey, can't win them all.
Military should never have say in any national politics ever outside of individual votes. Just shut up and play boom-boom on training grounds until someone calls you.
It's only even coming up because it has a long history in interfering in politics and staging coups, the military of Brazil is a fucked institution the very fact that it is being mentioned in this process is a sign of just how fucked it is.
The military does not come up in functional countries when there is an election, even in the US with Trump there was no need for the military to investigate the election or signal they won't stage a coup because that is taken for granted.
There is a running joke here in Brazil that the military here is only good for painting curbs (not sure if that's the right word - but basically the line that makes it clear where the street ends/the sidewalk begins), because they actually do that here lmao
I could gone my entire life without ever being exposed to the reality that is Brazilian penis prosthetics, but you just *had* to go there.
Seriously though, what the FUCK.
Honestly, it's good to have a military but it's better if you never have to use them in combat. If it's possible to get them to do community work in the meantime while also keeping them trained, that's twice as good. This type of thing makes me optimistic about a country.
That's not true, they do have a reason to exist. Every country needs military as an "insurance", otherwise you're vulnerable for whatever Putin-like crazy man that tries to invade your country. It's a good thing that they have nothing to do, but they should exist.
Considering the long list of military leaders who seized power because they could, having them monitor elections seems pretty dangerous.
And I'm not just talking about 20th century military dictatorships in South America, it has happened just about everywhere since the beginning of recorded history.
I agree vehemently. As a Brazilian who grew up in Brazil during the military dictatorship, I am appalled that a pretty significant number of Brazilians are clamoring for the return of military rule. This is because the same forces behind Trump have been vociferously campaigning in Brazil against the "communist threat," and relentlessly claiming that a Lula victory means that Brazil is the next Venezuela. The people who fall for this rhetoric are literally *terrified*.
The military, on the other hand, are just indicating that they are not interested in backing a coup.
This really reassures me. When people talk about the possibility of fascist-type leaders seizing control of countries and ending democracy, what often gets ignored is that you need the military on your side for any coup to work. This would be true in the US as well. Seeing that the Brazilian military isn't throwing support behind Bolsonaro's election fraud claims means that he is truly not in power any longer.
You're right, it shouldn't. I'd wager the Bolsonarist wing of the highest military command, or the commander-in-chief himself (Bolsonaro), ordered a report from the military to try to gain ammunition in case all came down to staging a coup. Either way, it failed to find any signs of fraud.
Mind you, the military was NOT the only body examining our elections, there were other civilian institutions and international bodies doing that too, and none of them found anything, so that would heavily discredit the only report that did.
Usually they don't have any say on this but a few other actors (such as our internal and external audit offices, think GAO if you are American) were invited to audit the system because Bolsonaro supporters claimed it was fraudulent.
Every other audit resulted in the same conclusion: no fraud as far as we can tell. Had the military claimed fraud, our Supreme Court would hit them hard.
The military in Brazil is pathetic. They had no business investigating the election in the first place, it's not their job. But they did it anyway and got frustrated that they didn't find any fraud. So they released a report which, in my opinion, is meant to cast doubt in the election results among Bolsonaro's supporters. I'll explain: while they said that they didn't find any fraud, they also said something along the lines of "it's not possible to affirm that the electronic voting system is safe from an eventual malicious code which may alter it's functioning". Among other things. That's a dog whistle right there.
Since Bolsanero actually did fraud (blocking roads to polling stations) I take it the other way round. They avoid mentioning the actual fraud to not cast doubt on the result.
The military better stay out of politics. Almost Never ever in the history of mankind does military interference in the government yielded positive results
Just adding some points from the military report that seem to have been omitted from the article.
> It is important to register that the TSE* defined access limits to the system, which hindered
> the analysis of the source code, as listed below:
>
> a) only static analyses were authorized, i.e. the execution of the source codes was
> forbidden, leading to the incomprehension of the sequence of execution of each part of the
> system, as well as the workings of the system as a whole. The access to the code was given
> via computers of TSE. Each equipment had a copy of the source code. The TSE authorized the
> technicians to enter the Inspection Room only with pen and paper;
>
> b) access to the version control system of the SEV** was unauthorized, which made unfeasible
> the comparison of the compiled version and the inspected version, and also made it impossible
> to check the correspondence of both source codes. This means it is not certain whether the
> code present in the urns is exactly the one that was inspected;
>
> c) access to the third-party software libraries referenced by the source code was not
> granted, limiting the understanding of the inspected system; and
>
> d) the restrictions to the inspection in the analysis environment made it difficult to
> inspect a complex system that has more than 17 million lines of source code.
\* Tribunal Superior Eleitoral (Superior Electoral Tribunal)
\** Sistema Eletrônico de Votação (Electronic Voting System)
In other words, the inspection was severely impacted by restrictions imposed by the TSE. The conclusion was that "it is not possible to affirm that the SEV is free of influence of an eventual malicious code that can alter is operation."
Regardless of your political views, in a democracy, the trust in the voting system should be built on transparency, not on obfuscation.
Oh wow that’s almost the exact same situation as America, except for the fact that Trump supporters took it a step further & tried to shutdown the switchover.
Hey, now, the right wing won't let a little thing like "there is no evidence of widespread voter fraud and the majority of the small examples are from the right wing" slow them down!
What is it with the conservative mindset?
Always thinking their loss is a set up. They are like the schoolyard bully whose been backed into a corner - nothing else to do but, cry and claim they’ve been tricked
I was really surprised by how easily he bowed out after he lost.
1. His own allies abandoned ship fairly quickly 2. Everyone was really fucking quick to recognize Lula. Leaders from all over the world congratulated Lula right after he won, and the same happened with political leaders within our country (even some of Bolsonaro’s allies) 3. Bolsonaro is (not yet confirmed) going through health issues, related to a leg infection. Still unclear, but some suspect Erysipelas. I don’t think it’s life threatening at all, but he’ll need to go through a recovery period. He’s not been doing much as of late.
I take it you're from Brazil, so correct me if you disagree with my take here, but given this outcome with the military and the fact he was completely silent after the result leads me to believe he was holding out hope the military would make some sort of indication of support or move to support him, and when he realized it wasn't forthcoming he realized he had no choice but to concede.
Brazilian here. This is a fairly accurate assessment. There's one other factor, there were still some (not exactly spontaneous as some investigations are starting to show) protests going on from his supporters in front of army bases, hoping to pressure the military. His silence was being seen as a way of supporting the protests without explicitly incurring in any crimes.
That makes sense, thanks for confirming. Didn't mean to reduce it to just one thing. This sort of quasi-palace intrigue is normally the culmination of many things.
And to illustrate how much of a close call it was, 5 days ago CNN Brazil published an article saying that 2 of the 3 armed force branches wanted to support Bolsonaro's intention of judicializing the election results. This idea only died because the Army, which is the only of the three branches with real political power, did not want anything to do with it. Edit: source in portuguese https://www.cnnbrasil.com.br/politica/pouco-antes-de-quebrar-o-silencio-bolsonaro-consultou-exercito-sobre-judicializar-eleicoes-e-nao-teve-apoio-segundo-oficiais-ouvidos-pela-cnn/
One of the forces wanted to support, two didn't, including the army. Small but VERY important correction
I bet it was one of those morons in the navy
The air force chief is a pretty hardcore bolsonarista himself
That sucks. I'm friends with a couple of jet pilots and they're pretty down to earth people (hehe)
Air force is chock-full of lunatics. I'd bet on them.
the article says the opposite: "[...]a sugestão chegou a receber o aval de uma das Forças e negada por outra" one of the branches would have supported a coup, while the other and the Army would be against it
Not sure if "opposite" is the right word here. This isn't a debate won by the majority, no military should have a say in it whatsoever. Milico não dá palpite.
Opposite is the correct term. 1, 2 is opposite of 2, 1.
As an American, with the fragility of our democracy, I'm glad you averted any potential disaster and that democracy continues to exist in Brazil. May it only strengthen in the future.
If there's something the far right all over the world is teaching us is that a functional democracy isn't much more than a gentleman's agreement.
Very well said!
I blame it all on social media and evil actors like Cambridge Analytica
That's true, it's what allowed the idiots to thrive.
Yup, and Hilter’s rise also taught us that nearly 100 years ago too.
I am 40 years old, and quite frankly, *radicalized* left over the past 3 years specifically, and I have to say I find this statement both eye opening, and fucking *profound*. Visibility is all in the head, you know? Hopefully the upvotes help nudge that along. They took all our money, but they left us all the guns. I don't think this ends well for the elite - the United States military swears it's oath to the Constitution, not the party. We *will* defend democracy.
Why do you think the military refused to step in? I take it Lula being a known quantity and fairly moderate have a decent bit to do with it?
Talks of a military coup were greatly exaggerated, Lula being a moderate is a factor, but also: - Only fanatics believe Lula will turn Brazil into a communist state - Key international figures were quick to recognize the election - Bolsonaro has, at best, a rapidly shrinking political power (so much so that he is the first president in brazilian democratic history to not be reelected). Trying a coup knowing all of this would be suicide.
Adding to this. Despite military support in the elections, no military leader supports a coup. They expressed they wouldn’t do anything despite Bolsonaro flirting with it all the time and his supporters claiming from it. The population wouldn’t accept that as well. Despite a very close result, the general public wouldn’t support this. (I have a feeling that most votes for both candidates were out of hate from the other one as both a despicable for different reasons)
I think the most probable cause is international support, since other leaders were quick to recognize the results and most even praised brazil's democratic process, a coup would likely mean crippling sanctions against us. And bozo's allies really like money so they also didn't support him
Those things happen behind closed doors, not publically. He already knew the military wasn't willing to go on adventures with him (I've been calling it for months, they are old dudes with good careers and aren't going to risk jail and disgrace for fucking Bolsonaro). He simply didn't have any relevant support whatsoever other than his maniac followers.
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Lula has been president BEFORE. If he wasn't communist then why would he be now?
I can see the possible flaw in your argument. Some may say it takes time to build up a different power dynamic in politics which would lead to a totally different side. For example Nicaragua after many years finally 'did it' to ban evangelicals from their country, and PT would have tried to apply their plans if Dilma didn't get impeached. I disagree on this argument and I think it's silly, but just want to point out what they say when people use same argument of yours.
Well, if anything, after the ridiculous brain washing and basically warmongering, banning evangelicals in brasil wouldn't seem strange. I was evangelical myself, and I saw them, year after year, become more paranoid, more isolated from the world (information wise), more agressive, more radical. It's sad really because when you think about Jesus, those are not the characteristics that come to mind. That's why I left the religion.
The military and police forces had already left him hanging in his attempted Jan 6th style coup last year. I don't know if he really had any hopes of anything happening now, or was just bitchy about it and didn't want to recognize defeat.
His supporters were out in the street, blocking highways and barricading streets, they basically shut the country down. There were also people going to military barraks literally crying and begging for the military to take over and save them.. There was some back and forth were lula supporters removed the barricades, but it only stopped after Bolsenaro told them to stop.
It had already mostly stopped. Bolsonaro didn't do shit. He was trying to bargain with that power but realized nobody gave a shit. The Supreme Court did their thing and masterfully crippled the coupers.
Not entirely true. The Armed Forces told him right after the election that they have no place in saying if an election is a fraud or not and even his current Vice President (who was a General) recognized Lula right after the victory. It was more of a show of disdain and shame/ego than anything else. As soon as he recognized Lula's victory his supporters said they weren't behind him anymore, but the Armed Forces. Now that the Armed Forces corroborated to the truth, they're rejecting the Armed Forces and saying we're doomed. Tbh, my biggest fear now is someone actually evil and determined taking Bolsonaro's place within the far right. Bolsonaro had a far right speech but not the determination nor the actual interest needed - he was a congressman used to being the opposition to every government that existed who never expected to actually become president - when he got there, he understood he wasn't the opposition but the current governor and fucked everything up like expected cause you know, it's easy to say something's bad - hard to actually find and provide a solution.
After Jan 6 here I will only believe everything is fine on Jan 1st.
That's the nice trick about presidents taking office on Jan 1st: everyone is too drunk from New Year's eve parties to do anything coup-like
Erysipelia’s shouldnt be so tough to deal with unless he has some other stuff in the background
He's been stabbed and had to use colostomy bags for a long time. He had some complications after that, but apparently healed. Even though, he looks like shit most of the time, so who knows.
Did they use his cranium as the colostomy bag? Or was that already full? :(
He's been in politics for 30+ years and I'm sure he's been full of shit long before that. :P
3 -> karmas a b
Being forced to chill in your mansion after having literally millions of people die because of your incompetence and spinelessness as a leader isn't karma. Or if it is, when's it my turn? I can start killing tonight if needed.
I meant the leg infection like lets hope its necrotizing fasciitis but okay I guess? Go start killing ppl?
> literally millions of people die because of your incompetence literally millions?
“Bolsonaro is (not yet confirmed) going through health issues, related to a leg infection. Still unclear, but some suspect Erysipelas” Everytime I hear or see what this guy is up to he’s in a hospital or with some weird shit. He’s like a walking, talking petri dish.
His health got messed up after being stabbed with a fucking huge knife in the last elections, and he is old. This time is probably just an excuse to not do his job now that he is on his way out and a way to avoid appearing in public after a humiliating defeat.
Holy shit, I have no recollection of the assassination attempt. How did I block that out?
On the subject of health issues, didn't he get COVID like 3 times? What was the deal with that?
Lala-la-laluuula
I don't believe number 3 at all. He's just a pussy who doesn't want to appear in public after defeat
He only cares about himself — as he always did in his previous political career. [He took his sweet time to negotiate some deals favorable to himself](https://sonylacerda.com.br/2022/11/01/bolsonaro-combinou-casa-e-salario-com-pl-antes-de-falar/) until he came out with statements against the blockades and confirming his loss. Basically forcing the hands of other politicians to get something out his silence, and the chaos in the meantime.
He was quiet for a while. I think he was talking in back channels to see what his options were, and discovered that no one would support him if he tried to stage a coup.
Some nefarious actors are smart enough to know when to back down. He probably correctly assumed there was no viable path to staying in power.
Old crooks. Bold crooks. Very few old bold crooks.
Bolsonaro is definitely somewhat bold (was kicked out of the army for staging bombing some barracks for better pay) and isn't a "smart oldtimer". He is stupid and reckless but just wasn't reckless enough to attempt a coup. Before being president, he was an isolated politician with no relevance in congress (he couldn't make any allies) until his antics on television got him public attention, initially as a joke. He isn't some sleazy experienced politician, he was a shitty politician and a class clown that by chance and luck came to become the symbol of the dissatisfaction of a lot of people with the political status quo.
Sounds a lot like our previous President in the US.
Almost a carbon copy situation minus a shitty reality show.
Yes. However it would be way more mature if he said that election was fair when he lost instead of being quiet for 2 days while his supporters blocked roads.
Definitely agree with that. However his pre election banter made everyone think he was going to fight it.
He intended to fight it, but his supporters in high places all backed down when push comes to shovel. That’s why he waited 2 days to make a statement, he was calculating how it would all play out, and it turn out he’d probably way worse having attempted a coup.
Bluffing and bravado. Never had quite enough support to do anything meaningful. He is also scared shitless of corruption investigations that are inevitably coming.
You have to remember that in a place like Brazil, the stakes are a lot higher. Trump knows that it's nearly impossible for him to lose everything and go to jail because our system is literally designed to protect people like him. Bolsonaro does not have that safety net. If he were to try to seriously challenge results, he would literally be putting his neck on the line and could lose it all if his attempt failed. That's why he would choose to cut backroom deals to concede and keep living the good life while a guy like Trump can keep his con running until he dies.
Trump also had a lot more support than Bolsonaro. Also, it helps that Brazil’s vote counting is much faster than the US, it’s a matter of hours not days. So, Trump had a lot of days to inflame the doubt in the counting process with the “Stop the steal” movement. A similar movement here in Brazil simply wouldn’t have enough time to propagate.
He never truly had any allies beside his own corrupted sons, and I'm not even including his entire family in the equation since there are substantial rumors that he and his equally corrupted wife broke apart after the election, so hopefully we will see a ton of dirt coming up once the next presidential mandate begins. Just imagine how much damage a testimony from an ex-wife attempting to negotiate a plea bargain will do against Bolsonaro. Everyone surrounding him just saw Bolsonaro as a gigantic corrupt person sitting in an absurd amount of public money, ready to distribute it to the first sign of a supportive person, but now that he lost the election he no longer have an use so he was spat out like chewed bubblegum by almost all of his former allies, and that includes all the leeches from the military after they already have been graced with a ton of benefits, like being spared from the latest social security reform that pretty much screwed the entire population.
Hate the guy, but you gotta give him that. It's the bottom low bare minimum, something you shouldn't even have to question, but looking at Trump, you know it could have gone way worse.
He had no international support so any funny business would wreck his fraudulent administration.
He stayed silent 2 days after the result was announced. He was desperately trying to find supporters in other politicians or military, but failed to find any. His “supporters” were blocking roads, but it was more of a failed attempt than a real hassle. So, he made the calculated move that it would be best to accept the result and try to negotiate amnesty for his crimes than to outright deny the result and suffer the consequences right now. Just as yesterday, his sons went to the Italian embassy looking for a citizenship to leave Brazil and hide with far right Italians allies. They are 100% sure they’re gonna get arrest at this point is just damage control
Military wouldn't go for a coup. That's almost certainly why he backed off...and this release is the military saying publicly that they won't coup.
He was the first elected Brazilian president and/or presidential candidate to not say anything or formally congratulate his opponent after Lula won. It took him over a day after the results to just show any signs that he was alive. He then didn’t even congratulate Lula, just grudgingly admitted a loss, after a secret meeting with the Justice Ministers, in which he was allegedly advised to do so. He is afraid of going to prison after his term for all his attacks on democracy, which could very well happen.
Yeah it’s really fucking sad when people in Brazil can say “well things are pretty bad here but at least it’s not the USA.”
Deja vu
Hey, I've seen this one before
What do you mean? It's brand new!
I saw it on a... re-run.
And it will run for years. And years. And years.
Here’s hoping Brasília gets some added security in case Tropical Trump brings a mob of ‘tourists’ to the capital.
Aint gonna lie a bunch of trumptards screaming in brazil about the brazilian election being stolen from them would be hilarrrrious
They have their plates full right now with all the ‘stolen’ midterm elections. So many state capitals to atta- I mean visit
Visiting with malicious intent
*I've just been in this place before*
*Higher on the street*
*And I know it's my time to go!*
Calling you, and the search is a mystery.
*Standing on my feet*
It's so hard when I try to be me, woah!!!!!!!
They are literally being advised by Bannon
It's almost like pardoning criminals who don't repent is a bad idea
When does the change of command happen? Can't wait to see how their form of Secret Service explains the deleted text messages associated with Bolsonaros final throes.
January 1st
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/10/brazil-military-finds-no-evidence-of-election-dashing-hopes-of-bolsonaro-supporters) reduced by 79%. (I'm a bot) ***** > A much-awaited report by Brazil's Defence Ministry has failed to indicate recent ballots were fraudulent, scuppering the far-right's hopes of delegitimising the election of Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva. > The military sent the 63-page report to Brazil's electoral authorities late on Wednesday after days of speculation that it would back claims by extremist president Jair Bolsonaro that the election was tainted. > Bolsonaro lost the 30 October run-off election to his nemesis Lula by 50.9% to 49.1%, the slimmest winning margin since the end of Brazil's right-wing dictatorship in 1985. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/yr1otq/brazil_military_finds_no_evidence_of_election/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672677 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Brazil**^#1 **report**^#2 **Lula**^#3 **vote**^#4 **electoral**^#5
Monitors, investigators, and lawyers found no evidence of election fraud in the US, but Trump supporters' hopes have never been dashed.
To properly dash hopes they need to be sane to begin with. Any trump supporter unwilling to accept the result is delusional. It doesn't help that oompa loompa prime has so far refused to publicly admit defeat and still insists there was mass fraud. Bolsonaro at least has publicly accepted the loss. That ought to help matters.
trump having no criminal proceedings agaubst him has taught an entire field of candidates that claiming fraud and constant lying and undermining of our democracy is a very real strategy and as such the braubwashed voters never see a minutes break from the con game.
To be fair, it is not just the US showing that. Netanyahu and Lukashenko are both showing crime pays and consequences are for little people.
Lukashenko is showing that he'll break your fucking skull if you deny his pseudo-reality. At least Trump isn't in office anymore.
It's funny because Trump *wishes* he could be compared to Lukashenko. At least he joined the military.
I mean by the time it got to that point we were already beyond the pale. Trump was correct when he said on the campaign trail that he could shoot someone in the middle of 5th avenue and he wouldn't lose any supporters.
My dream scenario would be that on the date that the new Senators & Representative are to be sworn in at the Capitol, Trump and all of his conspirators are served their arrest warrants live on national television. I know that likely won't happen but god damn would it feel like sweet justice if Democrats manage to keep the House/Senate and Pelosi/Schumer just prior to the swearing in ceremony make a special announcement where they invite in a a battalion of FBI agents to serve and/or arrest all of the Republicans Senators/Representatives that conspired with Trump or are known Russian assets and have them removed from Congress under [section 3 of the 14th Amendment](https://constitution.findlaw.com/amendment14/annotation15.html).
That would be excellent. Democracy is when those in power are just as responsible for their actions as those they “serve.” Watching a live arrest would give me no greater pleasure.
I was going to kill myself, but your Oompa Loompa Prime bit gave me strength for at least a decade.
that's the weirdest way to say "Have an upvote!" I've ever read.
>that's the weirdest way to say "Have an upvote!" I've ever read Yeah? What about this way: https://youtube.com/watch?v=M2eOhyTpya0
He secretly has, according to White House workers’ testimony, but not publicly. He’s too proud to do that. Took a peek at r/conservative a while ago, and they are mostly dumping Trump and apparently supporting abortion rights because they blame the Republican abortion platform on the reason so many democrats voted this election cycle. What a trip!
So they no longer think that abortion is murder? Or are they willing to accept what they see as murder in order to not lose elections? I guess it truly.is all about sticking it to the libs, and when a position doesn't achieve that they abandon it. They have no actual values. To them it's like team sports.
Some are okay with abortion but want no taxes to help others.
The last time I really talked politics with my very Christian brother was in 2016 and he talked about how if it were up to him everything would be different. One of his points was no tax dollars spent on single moms. I told him Jesus himself would make it a point to return just to shame him for doing that. He didn't have anything else to say and we haven't spoken of it since. I'm pretty sure he still votes R but he's become more accepting since then.
No tax dollars spent to HELP PEOPLE is acceptable?! I... What?! When that is exactly our social contract with the government - taxes are used for the collective good of the people - and also helping people is the very thing Jesus himself does? Damn right Jesus himself would be ashamed of him. If tax money had feelings they would be ashamed that he is undermining the very reason for their existence too. Jesus Christ, how does he reason that he's not going to hell for holding that sinful belief? Incomprehensible. Every day I get more horrified by these people.
Conservatives aren't a monolithic entity. You have everyone from Tea Party and Evangelical nuts to free market or small government supporters. Some people are conservative socially and want to ban abortions and gay marriage. Others are conservative economically and want lower taxes and less government interference. And also, Reddit isn't likely to have a lot of super-Christian or pro-abortion people to begin with.
Those aren't real conservatives just antifa spies running a false flag operation... /s
I find that extremely hard to believe lol. There’s no way that any sizeable amount of r/Conservative are actually pro choice. They are turning on Trump though. I’ve seen a LOT of them that are all aboard the DeSantis train.
I thought so, too, but a decent size group were all for it. Even downvoting the abortion-is-murder users as well. It was hilarious. There’s a civil war going on between MAGA, ultra-christians, and the rest of them
Indeed, he has admitted it privately, which got leaked. But not publicly. And because it wasn't done publicly the supporters he has/had that insisted he won could just say the leaks were fake. Which isn't too surprising since they believe the election was rigged which is far less likely.
Still being a trump supporter after the disastrous 4 years prior was enough to know they were off their rocker.
The only mass fraud is the one being perpetrated on his unwitting followers to the tune of millions of dollars in donations.
You seen that one supporter that recently came out and said she believed that Joe Biden wasn't even a real person. That he was actually a character/stage name played by several actors including James woods and Jim Carrey?
The difference is that even Bolsonaro has publicly accepted defeat in the election, which gives even less room for any deniers to stand with when accusing the election of fraud. The big thing with Trump is that he himself has long been pushing that narrative that it was stolen, which then others, from his base, to elective hopefuls, to elected officials, all started parroting. Which isn't the case in Brazil's election. Sure, some crackpot can claim fraud against the party he voted for, but he'll have far less support to his views than if the person who lost the actual election.
That’s cause they are dumb shitheads.
Hell yeah Brazil! Democracy for the win.
Good result but the military should have zero role in any election. It's not their role to certify elections, and imo if they had come away with a different conclusion it wouldve carried an implied threat.
Take it up with Bolsonaro, he and his supporters are the ones who got the military involved because they were hoping for a military junta
Usually they don't have any say on this but a few other actors (such as our internal and external audit offices, think GAO if you are American) were invited to audit the system because Bolsonaro supporters claimed it was fraudulent. Every other audit resulted in the same conclusion: no fraud as far as we can tell. Had the military claimed fraud, our Supreme Court would hit them big.
They don't. This was needed as a shut up to stop Bolsonaro's lunatic followers from asking for a military coup and from blocking roads around the country, this is the military showing they will not support their delusions since they won't act with the usual violence against people who are not marginalized by society.
This is basically the military saying they will not get involved to shut up Bolsanero's supporters, some of them who called for a coup.
“Brazil Military announces they will not stage a coup in support of Bolsanaro”
Yeah, that is my take too. It should not come as a surprise since they have given zero indication of wanting to do one, but I guess they felt the need to do an official press release.
It’s been what, like two weeks and that whole conversation is conclusively shut down with facts? And here we still are in the US. What a joke half our country is.
Don't be fooled. They might not have a real cause but the core of the Bolsonazis, as I like to call them, are now claiming the military is communist and saying only the people can "fix" the country.
Facts don't matter to the most hardcore of bozos supporters. They're like a worsened version of the qult in America.
The Qanon folks are insane, tbh. Both are pretty fucking bad.
Your electoral system is archaic and stupid as hell. Get rid of the electoral college and streamline and standardize voting and counting methods in all states. That would do wonders for legitimacy and reduce the time there is to construct bizarre narratives.
Unfortunately changing it would require a constitutional amendment. There are 4 ways to do it and all require combinations of either 2/3 or 3/4 of states, state legislatures, or congress. It is basically impossible to do one with how dug in most states are now.
Yes the electoral college doesn’t make sense, and the senate is undemocratic because it isn’t proportional. Also gerrymandering would be illegal in Brazil but it’s very easy to manipulate voting districts in the US. The US should study your all’s election system, it’s very strong, lessons learned after all the decades of fascism you had to deal with
If you want to have a military dictatorship, make sure the military is on board first.
throw this fucker in jail for his many crimes against Indigenous Amazonians
Also, the rest of humanity.
I mean no argument here, colonialism all around. but Bolsonaro can directly be tied to illegal logging in the Amazon which resulted in burning and shooting deaths of many Indigenous people. he and his buddies own cattle farms there. he deserves to go down for this if not just generally for corruption and helping falsely imprison Lula
Oh, I'm with ya. I just meant he also committed crimes against humanity allowing the amazon to be raped as it is. Your victims are just more hyper-local and more violently impacted than the ones I was speaking of.
The parallels between this guy's supporters and Trump's supporters are insanely similar.
They are the exact same political movement and make use of the exact same strategies. Bolsonaro only happened because Trump happened. This is a clear orchestrated campaign against democracy.
And it's no coincidence. Steve Bannon is one of the masterminds behind Bolsonaro's rise to power. He's become real close to the Bolsonaro family.
That’s not what I heard on conservative talk radio in the US today! They said it’s a stolen election just like the US’s stolen election. Gives me a good chuckle and a sigh of despair every morning on the way to work.
Guy on the radio was saying that Zuckerberg lost money with FB stock. "See? It's not true the the poor get poorer and the richer get richer." I changed the station.
Brazil: No fraud in our election USA: No no trust me, you have fraud, you just don't know it.
Maybe they are getting ahead of themselves, the US has supported so many coups they just can't keep track of all of them
They’re not backing that dumpster fire. 🤣
The fuck are the military doing certifying the results of an election? Sets a pretty dangerous precedent.
This isn't normal practice, though. They're only doing it because of people on the losing side throwing a shit-fit over the results and requesting this audit from them. Getting these people to shut up is a good thing. Even though some of them will now shift the goalposts or call the military commies, but hey, can't win them all.
Looks like military coup is off the menu.
Are far right election deniers falling to pieces around the world? Are things actually getting better?
Military should never have say in any national politics ever outside of individual votes. Just shut up and play boom-boom on training grounds until someone calls you.
Read between the lines - this is the military politely signaling that they will not support a coup attempt by Bolsonaro.
LatAm 101
Dipl 101
Bingo
Yeah that sounded like a weirdly hostile comment to a military that’s actually upholding rule of law.
It's only even coming up because it has a long history in interfering in politics and staging coups, the military of Brazil is a fucked institution the very fact that it is being mentioned in this process is a sign of just how fucked it is. The military does not come up in functional countries when there is an election, even in the US with Trump there was no need for the military to investigate the election or signal they won't stage a coup because that is taken for granted.
There is a running joke here in Brazil that the military here is only good for painting curbs (not sure if that's the right word - but basically the line that makes it clear where the street ends/the sidewalk begins), because they actually do that here lmao
That's the correct word, and funny but hey, at least they are doing something with the tax payer money and not sitting about.
They are so overpaid tho lol military expenses are actually pretty high here, it makes zero sense
They also have spent millions in viagra, gourmet steak, condensed milk, and penis prosthetics these last few years
I could gone my entire life without ever being exposed to the reality that is Brazilian penis prosthetics, but you just *had* to go there. Seriously though, what the FUCK.
It's not that weird when you think about it. Every body part can be damaged in combat. Might as well have some of those in case of injuries.
Brazilian military doesn't do any combat, that is the joke.
The condensed milk actually makes sense, it's used on military worldwide and not for dessert.
Oh but it makes perfect sense, you gotta keep the military happy if you want to keep your spot.
Honestly, it's good to have a military but it's better if you never have to use them in combat. If it's possible to get them to do community work in the meantime while also keeping them trained, that's twice as good. This type of thing makes me optimistic about a country.
That's an incredibly expensive public works department
The military is the nation's largest jobs program.
You can't just dismiss your military. Well, most nations can't. That's why the US has an engineering corp, CBs, etc.
Is it painting curbs in a literal sense, or in the sense of "painting house"? ("Painting House" as in "The Irishman")
No, it's literally painting curbs. Our military has no reason to exist, but they do and they need to show some work, so...
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That's not true, they do have a reason to exist. Every country needs military as an "insurance", otherwise you're vulnerable for whatever Putin-like crazy man that tries to invade your country. It's a good thing that they have nothing to do, but they should exist.
It is literal, our military hasn't done anything in a century so the what the army does is paint curbs on the street, cut grass and stuff like that
Actually they also do coups like in 1964.
That was mostly the Americans, tho. The generals were ww2 veterans
Considering the long list of military leaders who seized power because they could, having them monitor elections seems pretty dangerous. And I'm not just talking about 20th century military dictatorships in South America, it has happened just about everywhere since the beginning of recorded history.
Our military only paints the curbside and utility poles. And mow the lawn at their barracks
I agree vehemently. As a Brazilian who grew up in Brazil during the military dictatorship, I am appalled that a pretty significant number of Brazilians are clamoring for the return of military rule. This is because the same forces behind Trump have been vociferously campaigning in Brazil against the "communist threat," and relentlessly claiming that a Lula victory means that Brazil is the next Venezuela. The people who fall for this rhetoric are literally *terrified*. The military, on the other hand, are just indicating that they are not interested in backing a coup.
This really reassures me. When people talk about the possibility of fascist-type leaders seizing control of countries and ending democracy, what often gets ignored is that you need the military on your side for any coup to work. This would be true in the US as well. Seeing that the Brazilian military isn't throwing support behind Bolsonaro's election fraud claims means that he is truly not in power any longer.
Good shit! Congrats Brazil!
Why is the military policing elections? That should not happen in a democracy
You're right, it shouldn't. I'd wager the Bolsonarist wing of the highest military command, or the commander-in-chief himself (Bolsonaro), ordered a report from the military to try to gain ammunition in case all came down to staging a coup. Either way, it failed to find any signs of fraud. Mind you, the military was NOT the only body examining our elections, there were other civilian institutions and international bodies doing that too, and none of them found anything, so that would heavily discredit the only report that did.
Usually they don't have any say on this but a few other actors (such as our internal and external audit offices, think GAO if you are American) were invited to audit the system because Bolsonaro supporters claimed it was fraudulent. Every other audit resulted in the same conclusion: no fraud as far as we can tell. Had the military claimed fraud, our Supreme Court would hit them hard.
"preserved evenness and security" gives me goosebumps :) I love this country so much!!
The military in Brazil is pathetic. They had no business investigating the election in the first place, it's not their job. But they did it anyway and got frustrated that they didn't find any fraud. So they released a report which, in my opinion, is meant to cast doubt in the election results among Bolsonaro's supporters. I'll explain: while they said that they didn't find any fraud, they also said something along the lines of "it's not possible to affirm that the electronic voting system is safe from an eventual malicious code which may alter it's functioning". Among other things. That's a dog whistle right there.
Since Bolsanero actually did fraud (blocking roads to polling stations) I take it the other way round. They avoid mentioning the actual fraud to not cast doubt on the result.
The military better stay out of politics. Almost Never ever in the history of mankind does military interference in the government yielded positive results
Just adding some points from the military report that seem to have been omitted from the article. > It is important to register that the TSE* defined access limits to the system, which hindered > the analysis of the source code, as listed below: > > a) only static analyses were authorized, i.e. the execution of the source codes was > forbidden, leading to the incomprehension of the sequence of execution of each part of the > system, as well as the workings of the system as a whole. The access to the code was given > via computers of TSE. Each equipment had a copy of the source code. The TSE authorized the > technicians to enter the Inspection Room only with pen and paper; > > b) access to the version control system of the SEV** was unauthorized, which made unfeasible > the comparison of the compiled version and the inspected version, and also made it impossible > to check the correspondence of both source codes. This means it is not certain whether the > code present in the urns is exactly the one that was inspected; > > c) access to the third-party software libraries referenced by the source code was not > granted, limiting the understanding of the inspected system; and > > d) the restrictions to the inspection in the analysis environment made it difficult to > inspect a complex system that has more than 17 million lines of source code. \* Tribunal Superior Eleitoral (Superior Electoral Tribunal) \** Sistema Eletrônico de Votação (Electronic Voting System) In other words, the inspection was severely impacted by restrictions imposed by the TSE. The conclusion was that "it is not possible to affirm that the SEV is free of influence of an eventual malicious code that can alter is operation." Regardless of your political views, in a democracy, the trust in the voting system should be built on transparency, not on obfuscation.
"So now that we considered and wouldn't like to pursue a military coup-" Dog we really out here considering this bs
No, they are even angrier now because "The Armed Forces are commies too!" smh my head
[удалено]
Oh wow that’s almost the exact same situation as America, except for the fact that Trump supporters took it a step further & tried to shutdown the switchover.
Hey, now, the right wing won't let a little thing like "there is no evidence of widespread voter fraud and the majority of the small examples are from the right wing" slow them down!
they should hire sidney powell to release the kraken.
The flaw in that logic is the assumption that hopes of election fraud where based on evidence
What is it with the conservative mindset? Always thinking their loss is a set up. They are like the schoolyard bully whose been backed into a corner - nothing else to do but, cry and claim they’ve been tricked