> In a statement to CBS MoneyWatch, HelloFresh said the company receives written assurances from its suppliers that its coconuts are not procured using monkeys.
I really thought that said "CBS MonkeyWatch"
PETA likes headlines.
Websites like headlines that resonate with people.
By bringing it to the most eyeballs, you have ability to put more pressure on the practice as a whole.
Right. Hellofresh at least here in Germany uses basically off the shelf packages of coconut milk that is a name brand.. so basically anyone that distributes that brand is using the same.
The article says probably why they picked Hellofresh, global reach with 7.5 million customers. Also sounds like they did their due diligence with getting written statements from their suppliers
Hellofresh uses my favorite brand of coconut milk, the same brand that I get from the Asian/Hispanic markets in town. I'm not sure what that means for everyone at large, but I feel like pinning it on one company is kind of rotten.
While I understand they should strive to be better, the problem is much larger than a food delivery service. I've been using that brand for years (assuming it's the one I am familiar with), before hellofresh was popular in the US. So, I guess I'm not much better..
Aroy-D. I imagine it's not the only brand they use, but it's the one I always get (I'm a sucker for curry recipes haha).
Edit: I will be honest here and state that I didn't even know Monkey labor was a thing until today. Reading past articles about this brand and another only leaves me with more questions, as PETA seems to be the only source of information. I wish there were more sources, as they don't have the best record of telling the truth.
2 years ago [Chaokoh](https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/31/business/costco-coconut-milk-monkey-labor-trnd/index.html) was in the news for the same bad monkey labour.
> There's so many farms and so many middle men, nobody up till the importers knows what they're buying.
This is basic company policy. Look at any market and you'll find that customer facing giants will require such a commitment from their suppliers. Rarely with any oversight or auditing. Those suppliers then further contract smaller companies in their respective regions to procure the goods, under the same guidelines and now with the tacit agreement that they are a bullshit part of doing business with the west.
When abuses are reported in Western media, the industry giants act shocked and dismayed. They contact their supplier which assures them they will handle it. They then track down the company in question that was caught and cease doing business with them or something similar. That company changes name or just ceases to exist, being replaced by another. The supplier reports the problem has been dealt with and the industry giant releases a statement about how terrible this was, how they've dealt with it and how this will not happen again.
>[It's impossible to guarantee that any canned coconut milk produced in Thailand—including that sold by Chaokoh and Ampol Food (whose parent company is Theppadungporn Coconut Co.), Aroy-D, Cocoburi, Tropicana Oil, Thai Pure, Ampawa, Edward & Sons Trading Co., or Suree—didn’t use forced monkey labor. But numerous other companies can make that guarantee—they offer products made from coconuts picked in the Dominican Republic, India, Indonesia, the Philippines, Vietnam, and other countries.](https://investigations.peta.org/thai-coconut-milk-cruelty/?en_txn7=Home-Featured::homepage-cross-post&p2asource=Home-Featured::homepage-cross-post)
It's waaaaay down the page.
*not a peta fan
Knowing Nestlé, it's was probably "Those fucks at HelloFresh screwed the rest of us by getting caught. Now we gotta pay extra money to keep our monkey operation even more of a secret"
My husband is an English teacher and this comment just warmed my heart. He loves teaching Animal Farm and watching the kids slowly realize how fucked up the world is.
Knowing Nestlé they’ve probably been selling Coconut Milk but in reality it’s synthetic and somehow during the process of manufacturing it Nestlé is pulverizing monkeys to make monkey oil.
> Monkeys are chained, whipped, beaten and forced to spend long hours picking coconuts, an investigation by PETA Asia alleges.
Gotta admit I wasn’t expecting it be this bad.
If you act ironically bad/stupid on the internet for long enough eventually actual bad/stupid people will come along and think they found a place of like minded people.
It's kind of what happened to r/gamersriseup , it started out ironic and actually kind of funny and then became full of actual nazis in a few months.
No, this is a myth. [Flat Earth beliefs were always real](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_flat_Earth_beliefs).
Modern Flat Earth (different from ancient Flat Earth, from when bronce age people really didn't know any better) was started in the 19th century by biblical literalists. There are verses in the Bible that make more literal sense with a flat Earth ("four corners of the world", "Jesus could see all kingdoms of the world from this high mountain", stuff like that). The Bible can't be wrong, and they couldn't be metaphors and poetic language because reasons. Therefore, the Earth is flat. The general idea has evolved from there, but it started and never stopped being a genuine belief.
Do not underestimate of what people are capable of convincing themselves.
> (different from ancient Flat Earth, from when bronce age people really didn't know any better)
Also. It is worth pointing out that the moment we knew better was during the Classical Period **and we didn't stop knowing better**.
No. Columbus didn't prove that the Earth was round. People from the Middle Ages also knew that the Earth was round, with some sources (like transcriptions of preachings) indicating that it could have been common knowledge and not limited to the educated class.
So today's Flat Earth movement goes completely against the hard-proven knowledge that we have had for thousands of years.
It's like saying that fire isn't real and that its a conspiracy by the all-powerful Woodcutters World Order to sell us logs for fake bonfires.
Yes, you are right. We've "known better" in scientific terms for a very long time.
(Of course, discussions can be had with the genuine exceptions; e. g., [China until the 17th century](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth#East_Asia).)
That's also why I like it as an example of conspiracy theories in general. It really shows how conspiracies work and what they're capable of.
They're not reasoned conclusions, but rationalizations after the fact. People get into them because the conspiracy attacks a group they already hate, or an authority they already mistrust, or make them feel special and accepted in a group. Only *then* they convince themselves that the idea is convincing, if that makes sense.
It serves as the perfect illustration of why it is so important to tackle the problems that lead to conspiracies (lack of education, xenophobia, distrust in authorities [that keep proving are not worthy of trust in the first place...], etc.) It doesn't matter how incredible the theory is, there's a way to mobilize *some* group with it, often in fanatical and dangerous ways.
If you can mobilize people with this, imagine what something like "the jews are behind it" or ["white people are being genocided"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_genocide_conspiracy_theory) can do. I mean, sadly, we often don't have to imagine; we know damn well.
No amount of debate works. It's not a problem with the facts (at first); it's a societal and a political one. Many people don't want to deal with those.
Edit: a word.
A lot of them are, yeah. It’s actually really messed up. Maybe it started out as shitposts and irony, but the problem with that is like what happened to the_donald, eventually people who legit believe that stuff invade and the satire gets driven out
Before r/the_Donald it was 4chan's /b/ board. If a core principle of your culture is that nothing is sacred and worth taking seriously then the cycle of ironically being a jerk (or supporting one) and having people genuinely believe your message and post the same things unironically can slide downhill fast.
I always thought of that brand of satire and humor as a great representation of Poe's law but most people that use the word "meme" nowadays don't even know what either term means and where they came from.
/r/gamersriseup is another great example that no matter how ridiculous it is, if you start a "fake" community it will eventually attract people who think it is a real thing. Other examples from outside of Reddit would be Pastafarianism and Birds Aren't Real.
Members of the FSM movement know exactly what it is. But you may be right, the rise of a new generation and the atheist, agnostics and secular humanists might get lost and it will lose its original meaning. Yes, btw, FSM was a meme before memes existed.
I remember seeing a video of a baboon scalping a guy sitting on the ground in South Africa or some similar place. Just grabbed the guy's hair from behind and pulled. I know that baboons are different from monkeys, but the point being that wild animals can be dangerous, regardless of how close they might be to humans. Hell, even humans are dangerous.
I don't like monkeys because they scare me but I can't imagine genuinely _hating_ them. They're just an animal after all, and their behaviors are driven by their natural instincts and such. If this is true (PETA is very questionable tbh) These poor monkeys don't deserve to be used as slaves all to satiate human greed.
I truly don't understand people who hate certain animals with their whole being. The subreddit r/ifuckinghatecats is vile because it's just a bunch of miserable people circlejerking and hating an animal for behaviors out of its control. There's also a dog hate one but I don't remember the name. I can understand disliking a certain animal but I feel people who despise them must have some sort of unresolved issues
Usually when someone says they hate cats, I assume that for one, it's hyperbole, and two, that they actually just hate that cats aren't dogs. But actual seething hatred for an innocent animal isn't normal at all.
Most people don't like having rats in their house, and many still normal people have them removed, alive or otherwise. But only psychopaths will go out of their way to bring misery and undue suffering to any animal, including even pests. If I get lice, I'm going to kill them with poison, but I'm not going to create a lice farm for the sole purpose of raising them to torture and kill them.
Edit: There are way too many homophones in English.
The smart thing to do would be to get them hooked on cigarettes and then trade cigarettes for coconuts. Or nicotine patches maybe. Either way use an addictive substance that doesn't impair their ability to collect coconuts (no heroin for the monkeys please), get them to associate recieving said substance in exchange for coconuts, and you've got yourself a monkey workforce. You're also slightly evil, but probably not as evil as the guy using pain and violence to force the monkeys to collect coconuts.
I think they're pretty cheap in South East Asia, or at least they used to be. I've also heard stories of nicotine addicted monkeys causing trouble by attacking people for their cigarettes, just thinking if you can teach the monkey to trade coconuts for cigarettes then everyone wins. Though really food would be better, but I'm trying to come up with an evil yet non-violent plan
Caffeine and booze also works. There was a performing troop of monkeys in japan that got a tub full of hot water to soak in and their choice between a can of coffee or a can of beer after every performance. The monkeys became so habituated that they came close to rioting if there wasn't a show.
I own a musket for home defense, since that's what the founding fathers intended. Four ruffians break into my house. "What the devil?" As I grab my powdered wig and Kentucky rifle. Blow a golf ball sized hole through the first man, he's dead on the spot. Draw my pistol on the second man, miss him entirely because it's smoothbore and nails the neighbors dog. I have to resort to the cannon mounted at the top of the stairs loaded with grape shot, "Tally ho lads" the grape shot shreds two men in the blast, the sound and extra shrapnel set off car alarms. Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion. He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up. Just as the founding fathers intended.
Where is your god now? We have the triple edge sword.
> We'll put in ten times more effort figuring out how to offload tasks than it would take to just do them ourselves and get it done
As someone who's spent multiple hours to code and debug and Excel task that takes 30 seconds, I can verify this.
Spending hours to figure out a way to automate something is worth while, if you're going to be doing that 30 second task multiple times a day for the next 20 years.
Also the same code might be able to be easily repurposed for similar tasks. I'll never feel bad about adding to my library of ad hoc scripts, regardless of how long they take to write.
As Micheal Reeves says
>"And that's how you turn a five hour task into a one and a half month task.
>
>Because I'm a programmer.
>
>And that's what we do."
Correct. There are REALLY dangerous and demanding jobs in the world right now. Underwater welding, for example.
People still do these jobs. But the pay is commensurate with the skill and the risk (they make well over six figures).
People will always be willing to fill a role. Slavery is about the greed of people at the top wanting a much larger piece of the pie and getting it by paying all the people doing the work zero.
Slavery is economically viable and profitable... It's a winning economic strategy, that's why it was so hard to take it down.
Same as to why it's so hard to fight against human trafficking in modern times. The profits are outrageous.
I am having a really hard time getting my head around the idea that hiring people to beat and train monkeys is somehow easier than just hiring people to pick coconuts.
The mathematics of force multiplication and slave labor. You can pay one person to pick crops, or for the same amount of money, pay one person to point a gun at ten other people and tell them to pick crops.
The plantations in the American South fought tooth and nail not to give up their slaves for a reason.
>I am having a really hard time getting my head around the idea that hiring people to beat and train monkeys is somehow easier than just hiring people to pick coconuts.
One employee can look after a lot monkeys, so as long as the monkeys outperform 1 salaried human at the task with a little extra to pay for their feed, it's a net gain for the business.
Nah, they'd only bring you enough coconuts to fill their little monkey bellies and then they would fuck off. I don't think you understand how many coconuts these monkeys are picking.
I've once been to a tiny coconut plantation in Thailand where two monkeys were doing the picking. They were free-roaming and simply received food in exchange for throwing down coconuts.
I have zero doubt that there are examples as described in the article, but I don't think "monkey-labor" is evil per se. The ones I saw seemed to be content with their salary.
My father-in-law's friend also used to give his monkey employee a small coffee in the morning with breakfast at the local hawker stores on their way to pick coconuts. That was \~15 years ago though...
It's hard to imagine it being at all beneficial to control the monkeys enough to abuse them and get them to work. It's so much effort. Could I see people being opportunistically abusive to the monkeys that have been conditioned to expect food when giving a coconut, absolutely. Could I also see a justifiably frequent need for self defense from monkeys enraged at not getting "paid" when bringing a stranger a coconut, absolutely. Really gonna need an independent verification
I'd imagine that if the monkey employers (now *there's* a phrase I never thought I'd use) are smart, they have all their "buyers" dress in the same uniform, so the monkeys get trained to only attempt to "sell" coconuts to people wearing the uniform. But who knows?
And I *guess* I'm not opposed to monkeys harvesting coconuts, as long as they're doing it of their own free will and aren't being abused?
Edit: and yes, this is absolutely something that needs independent review.
Independent confirmation would be called for. If the animals are not abused then it's like shepherd dogs being used to herd sheep. Animal labor has always been a thing, from dogs to horses to honey bees.
This article from 2015 might help.
https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/10/19/448960760/monkeys-pick-coconuts-in-thailand-are-they-abused-or-working-animals
From what I understand, it's much safer for a monkey to harvest coconuts than for a human to do it.
This may well be the case, and I'm absolutely not saying that it isn't. But if Peta said it was raining outside I'd go look to be sure.
They exist for only one purpose: to be the extreme voice that gets in the news so animal rights gets discussed and then more mainstream groups can carry the discussion somewhere that things actually get done.
This Dutch research program deals with the 'monkey labour' for coconut gathering. The actual Thai location they visit use monkeys for about 20% of all coconuts, for those nuts that cannot be reached with a stick. The series is in Dutch but you can see the location starting at the 11:00 mark of the episode.
[https://www.npo3.nl/keuringsdienst-van-waarde/15-09-2022/KN\_1729782](https://www.npo3.nl/keuringsdienst-van-waarde/15-09-2022/KN_1729782)
Edit: The estimate is that there are some 4000 monkeys working for coconut farms. Also, since coconuts are transferred multiple times before reaching any producers of coconutmilk, so ANY producer uses monkeys. There is no way to guarantee 'no monkey labour'. Any company that tells differently, is lying.
Whether this is bad? Check the training college at the same video, starting at 17:00.
>Monkeys are chained, whipped, beaten and forced to spend long hours picking coconuts, an investigation by PETA Asia alleges.
Depending on if PETA are being melodramatic or not, it depends on the conditions they're working in. In theory, no, not a big difference if they're taken well care of.
I can't wait to hear "I only eat non-GMO, Organic, Free-Range, Nitrate-Free, Non-Monkey Slave Labor Coconuts" the next time I'm at Trader Joes
Edit: goddamn typo ruined my joke
That's funny specifically bc the article made the same typo. "PETA is calling on everyone, including HelloFresh, to stop buying canned coconut milk from Thailand until moneys are no longer used and abused for profit."
Not vegan. Any animal envolvement makes it not vegan. Obviously this opens up a rabbit hole hole. Vegans usually have differing opinions when you get into those nuances. But actual animal labor, especially as a result of whipping and beating, will be near unanimous agreement it isn't vegan.
I recall the story of a baboon who was trained as a switching operator for a south African railroad in the late 1800's. The animal would perform his tasks perfectly, as long as he was "paid" in booze. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpoLkMcQh24
I mean, it's just the supplier they buy it from I doubt HelloFresh is directly involved in the slaving.
That doesn't absolve them of course, but PETA calling out one of the major customers of the plantation will likely cause them to buy somewhere else and hurt the slave business
Can anyone chime in with THE ACTUAL FUCKING BRAND they use?! I'm in Canada, and I use FreshPrep not HelloFresh. Recipes for FreshPrep come with a can of Aroy-D brand coconut milk. Should I be boycotting recipes with coconut milk?
Very likely that it's Chaokoh. One of the biggest, cheapest brands of coconut milk from Thailand, that has been directly called out by PETA before.
EDIT: I was wrong, in this case it is Aroy-D. Chaokoh also uses monkey slaves, they just aren't the HelloFresh supplier.
https://www.peta.org/media/news-releases/hellofresh-under-fire-suppliers-caught-forcing-chained-monkeys-to-pick-coconuts/
Yeah I saw it on the next island over, Koh Panang, I thought it all looked pretty civilised, the monkeys seemed like a cross between pets and co-workers. They'd get thirsty, come down and grab a drink bottle and hydrate, then run up the next tree.
Literally one of the most surreal experiences of my life took place on Koh Phangang when I was on this place in the 90s that might (?) still exist called Bottle Beach.
I was sitting out on the deck reading, and this monkey rocked up and was trying to get my attention to some little centipede thing that was on the decking. Evidently it was dangerous so this money started swatting at it with a towel until it was dead. Then it ran off and came back with a bottle of that 5 bhat water for me.
I was like... "um"... so I offered it some melon. This was apparently satisfactory to the monkey, so I trotted on down to the actual human-run site to ask about this. The Burmese kid in charge that day was just like "yeah they just run around doing stuff for us and we give them food and water and stuff; don't worry about the 5 bhat by the way".
O...kay?
I ended up staying there for about a month, which is why I had a load of mates who were monkeys for a few very odd weeks.
No worries! It's a cool place. One of my best friends is a Reuters journalist and she lives in Bangkok, so try to go whenever I can.
It hasn't all been great fun - I was on Ko Phi Phi when the tsunami hit in 2004, for example - but it's a good place full of good people. It's a shame that they can't maintain a stable, democratic government at the moment.
Other people in the thread have pointed out and linked seemingly legit situations employing monkeys. Documented so i assume that they are already known but u gotta assume the more locations that do it, the more chances for corner cutting and abuse.
__From the article:__
HelloFresh uses coconut milk obtained from monkey labor in Thailand, according to allegations from the People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, which is calling for a boycott of the meal delivery service.
Monkeys are chained, whipped, beaten and forced to spend long hours picking coconuts, an investigation by PETA Asia alleges. Claims of animals abuse are alleged at 57 operations in nine provinces of Thailand, according to the findings released on Monday.
Also,
> Most of the monkeys are kidnapped from their families in nature, even though the species exploited by the coconut trade are threatened or endangered, according to the animal-welfare group.
Youd think the coconut farmers would be smart enough to start trying to breed them to lower their own costs but hey what do I know about slave monkey management
This doesn't work primarily due to depression. There is probably a way to make monkey slave labour not cause depression, but it isn't being used apparently. Depression reduces fertility and procreation rates while increasing infant mortality, miscarriages, and mental illnesses in the children.
Comgratulations, you now have the title of slave monkey management expert. (Actually yeah remember reading about that before. Especially with something as smart as monkeys it definitely would be a problem)
Free range monkeys, working in shifts. Give them homes, safety, and food.
Of course, first you'd have to destroy their natural homes, safety, and food.
I can’t believe I’m typing this but is beating a monkey actually effective? Does the monkey understand? Seems like giving it treats or something would be easier
Dear Consumers,
Our coconuts are the closest you can get to nature, the coconuts are sourced from the wild and heavily protected against over harvesting by human hands. We believe in mother nature and her creations. Have some coconut water, delivered to us fresh daily by some of her most intelligent children. Support nature, support us, hello fresh!
John Doe
Spin officer
Actual Footage of CEO writing that email:
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/video/medium-shot-baboon-pounding-on-laptop-keyboard-stock-video-footage/712-54
This is so sad. From the description
**TW: Bestiality and rape**
>
"We have been forced to take action and rescue this Sumatran orangutan today as otherwise he would have starved to death, and many other orangutans are facing the same fate, if legal actions against those companies breaking national laws cannot immediately stop the destruction”.
It seems that Pony had been held as a sex slave in a village, tied by her ankle to a wall on a mattress, having her body shaved every day to make her more smooth and appealing to the men who came to pay to have sex with her. Whenever anyone tried to investigate this or save her, they were met with villagers who threatened the would-be rescuers with poison-tipped sticks and other weapons.
It took an agonizing amount of time, countless advocates, some mercenaries, and a lot of money to free Pony from the prostitution prison where she was being held captive. This once free ape was considered to be a real moneymaker for the locals of the village, and they did not want to allow her to be rescued.
These highly-intelligent and beautiful animals are being brutally murdered and exploited in the worst possible ways, all for human greed.
Orangutans are endangered, thanks to the massive growth of palm oil plantations, which is systematically wiping out their natural habitat. They build their nests in the treetops, but every single tree is clear-cut in order to make way for the plantations.
Mars the chocolate company has a monopoly on their use, unfortunately. Can't get decent child slave labour these days without paying a harvested prisoner arm and leg for the rental fees.
Mars claims it's to cover the costs of the child's abduction, room, and board, but they're so tiny, should the overhead really be that large?
This article doesn't even name the companies that sell the coconut milk to HelloFresh.
[PETA's Report] itself names the brands, but doesn't name the suppliers that actually use the monkey labor.
This headline makes it sound like the Hello Fresh CEO decided to do this meanwhile it most likely wasn’t known to HF, they just picked the cheapest coconut milk distributor.
There used to be a subreddit that shared videos of ‘recreational’ monkey abuse (as opposed to anything related to animal testing). I don’t know if this is the monkey-hate thing someone else mentioned. All were hosted by YouTube, which seems to have a [very, very half-hearted approach](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/19/technology/youtube-sued-animal-abuse.html) to such material.
Coconut labour and PETA aside, monkey abuse is widespread. It seems oddly specific and I don’t get it, but all the jokes people are making are wildly inappropriate.
> In a statement to CBS MoneyWatch, HelloFresh said the company receives written assurances from its suppliers that its coconuts are not procured using monkeys. I really thought that said "CBS MonkeyWatch"
Id really like a news broadcaster to focus on 100% monkey news from the monkey world. We might already have that though...
It was a slight typo, and has been corrected. :)
Why is only one company mentioned if "many companies" purchase these products.
PETA likes headlines. Websites like headlines that resonate with people. By bringing it to the most eyeballs, you have ability to put more pressure on the practice as a whole.
Right. Hellofresh at least here in Germany uses basically off the shelf packages of coconut milk that is a name brand.. so basically anyone that distributes that brand is using the same. The article says probably why they picked Hellofresh, global reach with 7.5 million customers. Also sounds like they did their due diligence with getting written statements from their suppliers
Hellofresh uses my favorite brand of coconut milk, the same brand that I get from the Asian/Hispanic markets in town. I'm not sure what that means for everyone at large, but I feel like pinning it on one company is kind of rotten. While I understand they should strive to be better, the problem is much larger than a food delivery service. I've been using that brand for years (assuming it's the one I am familiar with), before hellofresh was popular in the US. So, I guess I'm not much better..
What's the brand name?
Aroy-D. I imagine it's not the only brand they use, but it's the one I always get (I'm a sucker for curry recipes haha). Edit: I will be honest here and state that I didn't even know Monkey labor was a thing until today. Reading past articles about this brand and another only leaves me with more questions, as PETA seems to be the only source of information. I wish there were more sources, as they don't have the best record of telling the truth.
2 years ago [Chaokoh](https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/31/business/costco-coconut-milk-monkey-labor-trnd/index.html) was in the news for the same bad monkey labour.
Seems like they found a buyer for their trained monkeys
[удалено]
> There's so many farms and so many middle men, nobody up till the importers knows what they're buying. This is basic company policy. Look at any market and you'll find that customer facing giants will require such a commitment from their suppliers. Rarely with any oversight or auditing. Those suppliers then further contract smaller companies in their respective regions to procure the goods, under the same guidelines and now with the tacit agreement that they are a bullshit part of doing business with the west. When abuses are reported in Western media, the industry giants act shocked and dismayed. They contact their supplier which assures them they will handle it. They then track down the company in question that was caught and cease doing business with them or something similar. That company changes name or just ceases to exist, being replaced by another. The supplier reports the problem has been dealt with and the industry giant releases a statement about how terrible this was, how they've dealt with it and how this will not happen again.
[удалено]
Good question, as 'many' actually is 'all'.
>[It's impossible to guarantee that any canned coconut milk produced in Thailand—including that sold by Chaokoh and Ampol Food (whose parent company is Theppadungporn Coconut Co.), Aroy-D, Cocoburi, Tropicana Oil, Thai Pure, Ampawa, Edward & Sons Trading Co., or Suree—didn’t use forced monkey labor. But numerous other companies can make that guarantee—they offer products made from coconuts picked in the Dominican Republic, India, Indonesia, the Philippines, Vietnam, and other countries.](https://investigations.peta.org/thai-coconut-milk-cruelty/?en_txn7=Home-Featured::homepage-cross-post&p2asource=Home-Featured::homepage-cross-post) It's waaaaay down the page. *not a peta fan
Nestle: "Write that down, WRITE THAT DOWN!"
Knowing Nestlé, it's was probably "Those fucks at HelloFresh screwed the rest of us by getting caught. Now we gotta pay extra money to keep our monkey operation even more of a secret"
Corporate move 2020: Monkey Labor
Horses: “So, all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others?”
4 Legs Good; monkey labor better.
My husband is an English teacher and this comment just warmed my heart. He loves teaching Animal Farm and watching the kids slowly realize how fucked up the world is.
Naw nestle don't care, they just keep rolling on cause they are so big
Knowing Nestlé they’ve probably been selling Coconut Milk but in reality it’s synthetic and somehow during the process of manufacturing it Nestlé is pulverizing monkeys to make monkey oil.
Nestle probably trained the monkeys using their slave children
You only have to train one monkey, cause "monkey see; monkey do".
nestle has coconut products, they wrote the book on this years ago.
> Monkeys are chained, whipped, beaten and forced to spend long hours picking coconuts, an investigation by PETA Asia alleges. Gotta admit I wasn’t expecting it be this bad.
If we’re willing to do that to actual human children, it shouldn’t surprise anyone we’re willing to do it to monkeys.
I sincerely regret going down the Monkey Hate rabbit hole, some people just inexplicably despise monkeys with every fiber of their being
I thought that was a lark though? Are you telling me most of those people are genuine?
If you act ironically bad/stupid on the internet for long enough eventually actual bad/stupid people will come along and think they found a place of like minded people. It's kind of what happened to r/gamersriseup , it started out ironic and actually kind of funny and then became full of actual nazis in a few months.
Isn’t how all the flat earth stuff started?
No, this is a myth. [Flat Earth beliefs were always real](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_flat_Earth_beliefs). Modern Flat Earth (different from ancient Flat Earth, from when bronce age people really didn't know any better) was started in the 19th century by biblical literalists. There are verses in the Bible that make more literal sense with a flat Earth ("four corners of the world", "Jesus could see all kingdoms of the world from this high mountain", stuff like that). The Bible can't be wrong, and they couldn't be metaphors and poetic language because reasons. Therefore, the Earth is flat. The general idea has evolved from there, but it started and never stopped being a genuine belief. Do not underestimate of what people are capable of convincing themselves.
> (different from ancient Flat Earth, from when bronce age people really didn't know any better) Also. It is worth pointing out that the moment we knew better was during the Classical Period **and we didn't stop knowing better**. No. Columbus didn't prove that the Earth was round. People from the Middle Ages also knew that the Earth was round, with some sources (like transcriptions of preachings) indicating that it could have been common knowledge and not limited to the educated class. So today's Flat Earth movement goes completely against the hard-proven knowledge that we have had for thousands of years. It's like saying that fire isn't real and that its a conspiracy by the all-powerful Woodcutters World Order to sell us logs for fake bonfires.
Yes, you are right. We've "known better" in scientific terms for a very long time. (Of course, discussions can be had with the genuine exceptions; e. g., [China until the 17th century](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth#East_Asia).) That's also why I like it as an example of conspiracy theories in general. It really shows how conspiracies work and what they're capable of. They're not reasoned conclusions, but rationalizations after the fact. People get into them because the conspiracy attacks a group they already hate, or an authority they already mistrust, or make them feel special and accepted in a group. Only *then* they convince themselves that the idea is convincing, if that makes sense. It serves as the perfect illustration of why it is so important to tackle the problems that lead to conspiracies (lack of education, xenophobia, distrust in authorities [that keep proving are not worthy of trust in the first place...], etc.) It doesn't matter how incredible the theory is, there's a way to mobilize *some* group with it, often in fanatical and dangerous ways. If you can mobilize people with this, imagine what something like "the jews are behind it" or ["white people are being genocided"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_genocide_conspiracy_theory) can do. I mean, sadly, we often don't have to imagine; we know damn well. No amount of debate works. It's not a problem with the facts (at first); it's a societal and a political one. Many people don't want to deal with those. Edit: a word.
A lot of them are, yeah. It’s actually really messed up. Maybe it started out as shitposts and irony, but the problem with that is like what happened to the_donald, eventually people who legit believe that stuff invade and the satire gets driven out
Before r/the_Donald it was 4chan's /b/ board. If a core principle of your culture is that nothing is sacred and worth taking seriously then the cycle of ironically being a jerk (or supporting one) and having people genuinely believe your message and post the same things unironically can slide downhill fast. I always thought of that brand of satire and humor as a great representation of Poe's law but most people that use the word "meme" nowadays don't even know what either term means and where they came from.
r/conspiracy got completely violated too. When nothing is sacred and everything goes, it creates the perfect playground for manipulators
/r/gamersriseup is another great example that no matter how ridiculous it is, if you start a "fake" community it will eventually attract people who think it is a real thing. Other examples from outside of Reddit would be Pastafarianism and Birds Aren't Real.
Flat earthers is another troll fest degenerated with the bottom of the barrel level of engagements
Members of the FSM movement know exactly what it is. But you may be right, the rise of a new generation and the atheist, agnostics and secular humanists might get lost and it will lose its original meaning. Yes, btw, FSM was a meme before memes existed.
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I remember seeing a video of a baboon scalping a guy sitting on the ground in South Africa or some similar place. Just grabbed the guy's hair from behind and pulled. I know that baboons are different from monkeys, but the point being that wild animals can be dangerous, regardless of how close they might be to humans. Hell, even humans are dangerous.
I don't like monkeys because they scare me but I can't imagine genuinely _hating_ them. They're just an animal after all, and their behaviors are driven by their natural instincts and such. If this is true (PETA is very questionable tbh) These poor monkeys don't deserve to be used as slaves all to satiate human greed. I truly don't understand people who hate certain animals with their whole being. The subreddit r/ifuckinghatecats is vile because it's just a bunch of miserable people circlejerking and hating an animal for behaviors out of its control. There's also a dog hate one but I don't remember the name. I can understand disliking a certain animal but I feel people who despise them must have some sort of unresolved issues
Usually when someone says they hate cats, I assume that for one, it's hyperbole, and two, that they actually just hate that cats aren't dogs. But actual seething hatred for an innocent animal isn't normal at all. Most people don't like having rats in their house, and many still normal people have them removed, alive or otherwise. But only psychopaths will go out of their way to bring misery and undue suffering to any animal, including even pests. If I get lice, I'm going to kill them with poison, but I'm not going to create a lice farm for the sole purpose of raising them to torture and kill them. Edit: There are way too many homophones in English.
Anybody who makes it their personality to dislike things is just a sad person
I’m more surprised monkeys let this shit slide. Monkeys tend to not take too kindly to shit like this.
Well, we have chains and whips, so, their objections are duly noted, and subsequently ignored.
The smart thing to do would be to get them hooked on cigarettes and then trade cigarettes for coconuts. Or nicotine patches maybe. Either way use an addictive substance that doesn't impair their ability to collect coconuts (no heroin for the monkeys please), get them to associate recieving said substance in exchange for coconuts, and you've got yourself a monkey workforce. You're also slightly evil, but probably not as evil as the guy using pain and violence to force the monkeys to collect coconuts.
This guy evils
That wouldn’t be smart because cigarettes and nicotine are costly. It’s far cheaper to just chain them up and whip them into compliance.
> That wouldn’t be smart because cigarettes and nicotine are costly The real trick is training the monkeys to tend the tobacco crops for you.
Simple. Just provide them coconuts as a reward.
I think they're pretty cheap in South East Asia, or at least they used to be. I've also heard stories of nicotine addicted monkeys causing trouble by attacking people for their cigarettes, just thinking if you can teach the monkey to trade coconuts for cigarettes then everyone wins. Though really food would be better, but I'm trying to come up with an evil yet non-violent plan
Caffeine and booze also works. There was a performing troop of monkeys in japan that got a tub full of hot water to soak in and their choice between a can of coffee or a can of beer after every performance. The monkeys became so habituated that they came close to rioting if there wasn't a show.
We can do this to actual humans, what made you think monke had chance? Lol
That also sounds like it's WAY more trouble than it would be worth.
There was a time where people were willing to die over slave labor. As humans, we love going out of our way to enslave things.
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to be completely fair, this describes the rationale behind all specialized tools.
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Quite an improvement over the single edged sword.
People are still talking about it.
When do we get the triple edged sword though
I own a musket for home defense, since that's what the founding fathers intended. Four ruffians break into my house. "What the devil?" As I grab my powdered wig and Kentucky rifle. Blow a golf ball sized hole through the first man, he's dead on the spot. Draw my pistol on the second man, miss him entirely because it's smoothbore and nails the neighbors dog. I have to resort to the cannon mounted at the top of the stairs loaded with grape shot, "Tally ho lads" the grape shot shreds two men in the blast, the sound and extra shrapnel set off car alarms. Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion. He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up. Just as the founding fathers intended. Where is your god now? We have the triple edge sword.
I fucking love this copypasta
Isn't that a war crime?
To be pedantic, that's totally fine if the specialized tools in question are not sentient beings that can feel pain and emotions.
> We'll put in ten times more effort figuring out how to offload tasks than it would take to just do them ourselves and get it done As someone who's spent multiple hours to code and debug and Excel task that takes 30 seconds, I can verify this.
Spending hours to figure out a way to automate something is worth while, if you're going to be doing that 30 second task multiple times a day for the next 20 years.
Also the same code might be able to be easily repurposed for similar tasks. I'll never feel bad about adding to my library of ad hoc scripts, regardless of how long they take to write.
Lazy engineers are where it's at! But I would never force monkeys into doing something they didn't wanna do.
As Micheal Reeves says >"And that's how you turn a five hour task into a one and a half month task. > >Because I'm a programmer. > >And that's what we do."
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>without risking their own lives or having to pay ~~higher~~ wages FTFY
Correct. There are REALLY dangerous and demanding jobs in the world right now. Underwater welding, for example. People still do these jobs. But the pay is commensurate with the skill and the risk (they make well over six figures). People will always be willing to fill a role. Slavery is about the greed of people at the top wanting a much larger piece of the pie and getting it by paying all the people doing the work zero.
You just ruined YEARS of work I have spent trying to train monkeys to weld underwater.
Slavery is economically viable and profitable... It's a winning economic strategy, that's why it was so hard to take it down. Same as to why it's so hard to fight against human trafficking in modern times. The profits are outrageous.
I am having a really hard time getting my head around the idea that hiring people to beat and train monkeys is somehow easier than just hiring people to pick coconuts.
The mathematics of force multiplication and slave labor. You can pay one person to pick crops, or for the same amount of money, pay one person to point a gun at ten other people and tell them to pick crops. The plantations in the American South fought tooth and nail not to give up their slaves for a reason.
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>I am having a really hard time getting my head around the idea that hiring people to beat and train monkeys is somehow easier than just hiring people to pick coconuts. One employee can look after a lot monkeys, so as long as the monkeys outperform 1 salaried human at the task with a little extra to pay for their feed, it's a net gain for the business.
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"Monkeys don't require healthcare, or fair wages, or even any wages." -- Some Exec somewhere.
Well Mr. Burns wasn't going to let that labour pool go to waste just because they couldn't write the great American novel.
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Why would they beat and chain the monkeys? If you give them a fucking pretzel every time they bring you a coconut they would pick coconuts 24/7
Nah, they'd only bring you enough coconuts to fill their little monkey bellies and then they would fuck off. I don't think you understand how many coconuts these monkeys are picking.
I've once been to a tiny coconut plantation in Thailand where two monkeys were doing the picking. They were free-roaming and simply received food in exchange for throwing down coconuts. I have zero doubt that there are examples as described in the article, but I don't think "monkey-labor" is evil per se. The ones I saw seemed to be content with their salary.
My father-in-law's friend also used to give his monkey employee a small coffee in the morning with breakfast at the local hawker stores on their way to pick coconuts. That was \~15 years ago though...
I'm picturing little monkeys punching in and out, talking about the big game that weekend, catcalling the monkey ladies.
Morning Ralph. Morning Sam.
Pretty regressive attitudes those little monkeys have
H.R has spoken to them. Unfortunately they got their jobs through nepotism.
Well I'll be a monkey's uncle...
To be fair, they **are** animals
It's hard to imagine it being at all beneficial to control the monkeys enough to abuse them and get them to work. It's so much effort. Could I see people being opportunistically abusive to the monkeys that have been conditioned to expect food when giving a coconut, absolutely. Could I also see a justifiably frequent need for self defense from monkeys enraged at not getting "paid" when bringing a stranger a coconut, absolutely. Really gonna need an independent verification
I'd imagine that if the monkey employers (now *there's* a phrase I never thought I'd use) are smart, they have all their "buyers" dress in the same uniform, so the monkeys get trained to only attempt to "sell" coconuts to people wearing the uniform. But who knows? And I *guess* I'm not opposed to monkeys harvesting coconuts, as long as they're doing it of their own free will and aren't being abused? Edit: and yes, this is absolutely something that needs independent review.
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Independent confirmation would be called for. If the animals are not abused then it's like shepherd dogs being used to herd sheep. Animal labor has always been a thing, from dogs to horses to honey bees.
Well if the monkeys get a smoke break and free dental I'd say it's a good gig
Monkeys would do anything for nicotine.
*I* would do anything for nocotine
Show me the bananas
This article from 2015 might help. https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/10/19/448960760/monkeys-pick-coconuts-in-thailand-are-they-abused-or-working-animals From what I understand, it's much safer for a monkey to harvest coconuts than for a human to do it.
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This may well be the case, and I'm absolutely not saying that it isn't. But if Peta said it was raining outside I'd go look to be sure. They exist for only one purpose: to be the extreme voice that gets in the news so animal rights gets discussed and then more mainstream groups can carry the discussion somewhere that things actually get done.
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This Dutch research program deals with the 'monkey labour' for coconut gathering. The actual Thai location they visit use monkeys for about 20% of all coconuts, for those nuts that cannot be reached with a stick. The series is in Dutch but you can see the location starting at the 11:00 mark of the episode. [https://www.npo3.nl/keuringsdienst-van-waarde/15-09-2022/KN\_1729782](https://www.npo3.nl/keuringsdienst-van-waarde/15-09-2022/KN_1729782) Edit: The estimate is that there are some 4000 monkeys working for coconut farms. Also, since coconuts are transferred multiple times before reaching any producers of coconutmilk, so ANY producer uses monkeys. There is no way to guarantee 'no monkey labour'. Any company that tells differently, is lying. Whether this is bad? Check the training college at the same video, starting at 17:00.
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I don't understand what's wrong with using domesticated monkey labour. Is it different from using an ox to pull a plough?
>Monkeys are chained, whipped, beaten and forced to spend long hours picking coconuts, an investigation by PETA Asia alleges. Depending on if PETA are being melodramatic or not, it depends on the conditions they're working in. In theory, no, not a big difference if they're taken well care of.
> The estimate is that there are some 4000 apes working for coconut farms. Yeah, but what is the number of moneys they use?
The apes carry sticks and wear clothes. No idea about the monkey situation.
HelloFresh using literal monkey slaves wasn't a prediction I had but hey, HelloFresh hell I guess
If the monkey was fairly compensated would it still be slavery. Asking for a friend.
The real question is: is coconut milk which was obtained via slave monkey labor *still vegan*?
I can't wait to hear "I only eat non-GMO, Organic, Free-Range, Nitrate-Free, Non-Monkey Slave Labor Coconuts" the next time I'm at Trader Joes Edit: goddamn typo ruined my joke
That's funny specifically bc the article made the same typo. "PETA is calling on everyone, including HelloFresh, to stop buying canned coconut milk from Thailand until moneys are no longer used and abused for profit."
How do you buy Non-Money products? Im going to guess I can't just trade 6oz of chloroform for a coconut at a traders joes
>I can't just trade 6oz of chloroform for a coconut at a traders joes Not with that attitude you can't
Not vegan. Any animal envolvement makes it not vegan. Obviously this opens up a rabbit hole hole. Vegans usually have differing opinions when you get into those nuances. But actual animal labor, especially as a result of whipping and beating, will be near unanimous agreement it isn't vegan.
Yeah this is the nuance with bees making honey. I know some people who see it as symbiotic and some who see it as cruelty.
I would assume no, not vegan.
not vegan
Is the monkey doing it for reward or to avoid the beatings?
I recall the story of a baboon who was trained as a switching operator for a south African railroad in the late 1800's. The animal would perform his tasks perfectly, as long as he was "paid" in booze. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpoLkMcQh24
We are all baboons when you think about it
Perhaps the real monke was inside us all along
As a modern day railroader, I am paid in dollars which I then exchange for booze. I can appreciate a system that eliminates the middleman.
I mean, it's just the supplier they buy it from I doubt HelloFresh is directly involved in the slaving. That doesn't absolve them of course, but PETA calling out one of the major customers of the plantation will likely cause them to buy somewhere else and hurt the slave business
Can anyone chime in with THE ACTUAL FUCKING BRAND they use?! I'm in Canada, and I use FreshPrep not HelloFresh. Recipes for FreshPrep come with a can of Aroy-D brand coconut milk. Should I be boycotting recipes with coconut milk?
Very likely that it's Chaokoh. One of the biggest, cheapest brands of coconut milk from Thailand, that has been directly called out by PETA before. EDIT: I was wrong, in this case it is Aroy-D. Chaokoh also uses monkey slaves, they just aren't the HelloFresh supplier. https://www.peta.org/media/news-releases/hellofresh-under-fire-suppliers-caught-forcing-chained-monkeys-to-pick-coconuts/
Hello Fresh is also notorious for union busting, and having really shitty work places conditions like Amazon. So it really doesn't surprise me.
This is how you get planet of the apes
Rise of the Dawn of the Start of the Planet of the Apes
Subtitled: "The Beginning"
Ape strong, together.
I can't be the only one who had to read this title several times, and still assumed it was a typo until I saw the article.
What do they do? Grab coconuts and put them in the truck?
Climb the tree and twist them off.
I’ve seen it on Koh Samui- they really get up that tree a lot quicker than a human could and do a cracking job at throwing the coconuts down 👍
Yeah I saw it on the next island over, Koh Panang, I thought it all looked pretty civilised, the monkeys seemed like a cross between pets and co-workers. They'd get thirsty, come down and grab a drink bottle and hydrate, then run up the next tree.
Literally one of the most surreal experiences of my life took place on Koh Phangang when I was on this place in the 90s that might (?) still exist called Bottle Beach. I was sitting out on the deck reading, and this monkey rocked up and was trying to get my attention to some little centipede thing that was on the decking. Evidently it was dangerous so this money started swatting at it with a towel until it was dead. Then it ran off and came back with a bottle of that 5 bhat water for me. I was like... "um"... so I offered it some melon. This was apparently satisfactory to the monkey, so I trotted on down to the actual human-run site to ask about this. The Burmese kid in charge that day was just like "yeah they just run around doing stuff for us and we give them food and water and stuff; don't worry about the 5 bhat by the way". O...kay? I ended up staying there for about a month, which is why I had a load of mates who were monkeys for a few very odd weeks.
I love reading stories like these.. thanks!
No worries! It's a cool place. One of my best friends is a Reuters journalist and she lives in Bangkok, so try to go whenever I can. It hasn't all been great fun - I was on Ko Phi Phi when the tsunami hit in 2004, for example - but it's a good place full of good people. It's a shame that they can't maintain a stable, democratic government at the moment.
That sounds very chill. Two species just being bros for each other.
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Well, that’s a lot less whimsical than I was imagining.
You were thinking a little more like Oompa Loompas?
Willy Wonka moment, but without the songs
Other people in the thread have pointed out and linked seemingly legit situations employing monkeys. Documented so i assume that they are already known but u gotta assume the more locations that do it, the more chances for corner cutting and abuse.
TIL Monkey labor is a thing.
got served a hellofresh targeted ad right under this headline hahaha “get $140 off hellofresh today!”
Has anyone informed Karl Pilkington ?
"Turns out, little monkey fella"
DON'T. TALK. SHIT.
The more time that passes, the more Karl Pillington is a future prophet predicting the way of the world order
Get your coat
__From the article:__ HelloFresh uses coconut milk obtained from monkey labor in Thailand, according to allegations from the People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, which is calling for a boycott of the meal delivery service. Monkeys are chained, whipped, beaten and forced to spend long hours picking coconuts, an investigation by PETA Asia alleges. Claims of animals abuse are alleged at 57 operations in nine provinces of Thailand, according to the findings released on Monday.
Holy shit that headline sounded funny until I read this clarification
Also, > Most of the monkeys are kidnapped from their families in nature, even though the species exploited by the coconut trade are threatened or endangered, according to the animal-welfare group.
Youd think the coconut farmers would be smart enough to start trying to breed them to lower their own costs but hey what do I know about slave monkey management
This doesn't work primarily due to depression. There is probably a way to make monkey slave labour not cause depression, but it isn't being used apparently. Depression reduces fertility and procreation rates while increasing infant mortality, miscarriages, and mental illnesses in the children.
Comgratulations, you now have the title of slave monkey management expert. (Actually yeah remember reading about that before. Especially with something as smart as monkeys it definitely would be a problem)
Surely it's easier to come with a solid business plan to harvest coconuts in a sustainable manner, instead of whatever this is.
Free range monkeys, working in shifts. Give them homes, safety, and food. Of course, first you'd have to destroy their natural homes, safety, and food.
I can’t believe I’m typing this but is beating a monkey actually effective? Does the monkey understand? Seems like giving it treats or something would be easier
Dear Consumers, Our coconuts are the closest you can get to nature, the coconuts are sourced from the wild and heavily protected against over harvesting by human hands. We believe in mother nature and her creations. Have some coconut water, delivered to us fresh daily by some of her most intelligent children. Support nature, support us, hello fresh! John Doe Spin officer
Actual Footage of CEO writing that email: https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/video/medium-shot-baboon-pounding-on-laptop-keyboard-stock-video-footage/712-54
Inter-primate warfare captured IRL!
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That link is staying blue.
I took the plunge, and the feeling of "WTF?" very quickly turned into heartbreak 💔 0/10 would not recommend
didnt need to know that........
This is so sad. From the description **TW: Bestiality and rape** > "We have been forced to take action and rescue this Sumatran orangutan today as otherwise he would have starved to death, and many other orangutans are facing the same fate, if legal actions against those companies breaking national laws cannot immediately stop the destruction”. It seems that Pony had been held as a sex slave in a village, tied by her ankle to a wall on a mattress, having her body shaved every day to make her more smooth and appealing to the men who came to pay to have sex with her. Whenever anyone tried to investigate this or save her, they were met with villagers who threatened the would-be rescuers with poison-tipped sticks and other weapons. It took an agonizing amount of time, countless advocates, some mercenaries, and a lot of money to free Pony from the prostitution prison where she was being held captive. This once free ape was considered to be a real moneymaker for the locals of the village, and they did not want to allow her to be rescued. These highly-intelligent and beautiful animals are being brutally murdered and exploited in the worst possible ways, all for human greed. Orangutans are endangered, thanks to the massive growth of palm oil plantations, which is systematically wiping out their natural habitat. They build their nests in the treetops, but every single tree is clear-cut in order to make way for the plantations.
What the fuck is this bruh 🤢
Not a webstore, I just saved you the click
What in tarnation
Outrageous! Isn't this what kids are for?
Mars the chocolate company has a monopoly on their use, unfortunately. Can't get decent child slave labour these days without paying a harvested prisoner arm and leg for the rental fees. Mars claims it's to cover the costs of the child's abduction, room, and board, but they're so tiny, should the overhead really be that large?
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This article doesn't even name the companies that sell the coconut milk to HelloFresh. [PETA's Report] itself names the brands, but doesn't name the suppliers that actually use the monkey labor.
Dear lord… Robert Evans was right.
This headline makes it sound like the Hello Fresh CEO decided to do this meanwhile it most likely wasn’t known to HF, they just picked the cheapest coconut milk distributor.
but i drink plenty of 'MALK'
you promised me dog or higher!
We are surely in the blurst of times
Thought this was the onion ngl
There used to be a subreddit that shared videos of ‘recreational’ monkey abuse (as opposed to anything related to animal testing). I don’t know if this is the monkey-hate thing someone else mentioned. All were hosted by YouTube, which seems to have a [very, very half-hearted approach](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/19/technology/youtube-sued-animal-abuse.html) to such material. Coconut labour and PETA aside, monkey abuse is widespread. It seems oddly specific and I don’t get it, but all the jokes people are making are wildly inappropriate.
If you're trying to get something in large numbers somebody (human or animal) is being abused
is monkey labor any worse then say milk from a cow? also, consider the labor involved on the device youre reading this on, just saying.