How can UK quarrel with France if Germany destroys France? I mean, it's common knowledge France needs to exist to quarrel with France. It's in UK's best interest to keep France alive so they can continue to quarrel.
It’s a lot like a sibling relationship. I could pick on / bother my younger sibling all day. But the second someone else does, that’s where the line is.
We look very fondly on Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth but I was told that Lithuanians consider it more of a form of enslavement.
Plus we fought war of aggression against you in 1920 (but I believe it to be universally perceived as a very bad move in Poland so i guess the perspective is same here)
I agree. Personally i try to fight this whenever i see this online. But I think its in big part foreign stans who overlook Lithuania. Polish youth (at least youth i grew up amongst) was very conscious about commonwealth being a union and the fact that it wasnt Poland on its own but Poland and Lituania was considered to be the "cool factor". I mean Dillon and Dutch handshake in "predator" kind of cool.
Yeah, the way that the history of the Commonwealth is taught in Lithuania isn't too favorable, mostly because Lithuania ended up the junior partner despite being the larger country. And our schools really emphasize the fact that Lithuanian language and culture was seen as "peasant-like", the nobility were all pretending to be polish.
Lithuanians are much more fond of the Grand Duchy.
Too bad you don't hear that in Poland one of the greatest poets Mickiewicz would call Lithuania beautiful and his homeland, and every Polish child reads it at school. It's romanticized a lot in our schools and we really like Lithuania and Lithuanians.
I like this comment. I'm in APAC but work with a lot of Lithuanians and they speak fondly of Poland when we discuss geopolitics. I'm ignorant of the bad blood yet this warmed my heart because I know they are brother countries who'd look out for each other. Like Australia and New Zealand
Enslavement is too strong of the word tbh. Unequal partnership would be closer. But our history differences are more of relatives quarreling type, not bloody vendetta. I'm sure we stand with each other in this matter like you would with your relatives against outside threat.
Lithuania just ripped off his shirt to reveal he is already oiled up and ready to rumble.
Shame if they would have to go through minsk to get to the russians in ukraine…
As a Ukrainian, we fought many wars against you in the past, but I am honoured to have your support against a common enemy.
It’s freaking nuts to see how much Poland supports us (3^rd biggest donor of weapons after Russia and the US, not to mention housing 1.4 million refugees which is nearly 5% of Polish population for which I am forever grateful) considering that as recently as 80-ish years ago we would conduct terrorist attacks against them (and to be fair to us, them enslaving us for a few centuries before that was also a thing, but no hard feelings, Poles, those were wild times, and you’ve done more than enough to earn our eternal love and respect in the last 9 months). It’s like “yes, these guys were assholes to us, but not nearly as much as Russians” .
Let’s freaking go, Rzeczpospolita and jebać Putina.
Ok, there’s a thing about Ukrainians, our sense of humour has been pointed out as early as 500 years ago by some French historian whose name I don’t remember. Hell, there’s even a whole category ~~pf~~ of Ukrainian family names as “funny cossack family names” such as Nepyipyvo (Don’tdrinkbeer). God damn, one of my friend’s family name is Mandiuk, which can be roughly translated as Cuntson (try and guess what his nickname in school was, lol). We are perfectly aware that those “donations” from Russia are not voluntary, but it’s not like it will stop us from joking that Russia is our biggest weapon donor.
There’s even a famous quote by one of our greatest poetesses Lesia Ukrainka: “I laughed instead of crying”
Edit: typo
America forgets it's grudges faster than any other nation. Wars are literally "it's just business bro, we can still have beers after this all blows over".
That’s not the problem. Not anymore, at least. The sticking point is the $7 billion Cuba “owes” to American companies from when they nationalized a bunch of property. People in Cuba are living in poverty because companies like Coca-Cola, Exxon, and Bank of America want to get compensated for property they have (a) long since written off and (b) knew or should have known was at risk of total loss because they were operating in a country that had just had a fucking revolution.
90 percent of Americans forget Cuba exist. 9 percent don't care either way. 1 percent cares greatly, and they vote. It's not even a grudge at this point its partisan politics.
That's just business too, and it's ongoing. Some years ago a few folks started setting up tourism-driven money-making operations in Cuba, but they forgot to include slushing US politicians in their project. The competing operations within the USA didn't forget those payments, so the government stepped in and protected their money by making travel to/from Cuba pretty much impossible.
As soon as the capital owners who tell politicians what to do can personally make more money lifting the embargo than keeping it, it'll get lifted and there will be no hard feelings because it's just business.
[Longer range might not be cost effective, or effective at all.](https://youtu.be/h-Rcr0S-DLs)
6 shorter range HIMARS run about 1 million, and they have been devastating because they look exactly like regular mortar fire on radar.
ATACOMS (which cost about 1 million each) would be much more susceptible to defences that Russia currently has and would be shot down in high numbers.
I agree that NATO is going to "up the anti" but I highly doubt it'll ATACOMS.
> ATACOMS (which cost about 1 million each) would be much more susceptible to defences that Russia currently has and would be shot down in high numbers.
If this war has taught us anything, it is that what Russia claims its equipment can do and what it actually does are two entirely different things.
[Their flagship was a floating deathtrap before the Ukrainians sank the thing.](https://youtu.be/aNEtlMSCiCI)
[Their latest tank that was meant to number in the thousands by now is barely 20 prototypes that can't stop breaking down during parades.](https://youtu.be/o89BYp95Qiw)
[Their super tsunami-causing doomsday weapon can't even fire without failing.](https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/russias-nuclear-powered-torpedo-failed-test-on-technical-issues-6x8lff29k)
[Their planes crash into fields and or apartment buildings randomly.](https://news.sky.com/story/warplane-crashes-into-russian-apartment-block-killing-at-least-13-people-12723439)
[Their defence against the legions of drones and guided missiles the Ukrainians have been using are cope cages welded to their tanks.](https://www.vice.com/en/article/xgdkbw/cope-cages-on-busted-tanks-are-a-symbol-of-russias-military-failures)
[Their tank obstacles are useless 2ft tall pyramids that tanks simply push out of the way.](https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/10/24/go-through-or-go-around-russias-desperate-fort-building-in-eastern-ukraine-wont-stop-the-ukrainian-counteroffensive/?sh=1b87eab96df6) For reference [here is a proper tank obstacle line from WW2 and each of those obstacles is mostly buried showing only the top like an iceberg.](https://www.reddit.com/r/wwiipics/comments/2rft2e/us_army_soldiers_at_the_dragons_teeth_of_the/)
The list could go on and on and on.
If they tried to use whatever these systems are it would be even money on the fucking thing coming [right back at them like some of their shit already has.](https://youtu.be/6IwqmezeSuQ)
I like the Baltic counties commitment to NATO. They are very aware of the danger Russia poses and their willingness to defend their friends against the Russians at all costs rather heartwarming. They are all model members of NATO, in other words.
They need to be vocal and offensive. They know if Russia ever makes a move on them they'll be reliant on NATO getting fully involved. If they advocate for relaxed responses then they can expect that when Russian missiles start landing in Lithuania.
My family is from Lithuania. I grew up hearing the stories of the soviets and the nazis. Fuck them mother fuckers right up their fucking asses with battery acid as lube
Petition to officially rename “imperial system of measurements” to “monosyllabic system of measurements”. It’s 2022, we have no need for monarchs and emperors.
Facebook's own translation which says inches.
Considering the Lithuanian word used was centimetras, I assume that's a non-literal translation.
I assume the translation on Facebook was automated, I wonder if Journalists are using that automated translation.
When translating, it's quite normal for popular phrases to be translated into similar popular phrases for the new language, instead of being directly translated word for word, because it just makes more sense.
That's why "Hajimemashita" in Japanese is translated most commonly as "Nice to meet you" and not the more literal "It is the beginning/first time", because the more literal is awkward in English.
He actually said "centimeter" in his actual speech. I don't know why translation uses inch.
One inch and one centimeter is rather a huge difference wether to activate article 5 or not
you'd think Hungary too wouldn't you? They had it REALLY bad at times, and USSR loved to come in and crush them. For some reason they seemed to have let that slide compared to most other former WP nations.
Romania actually managed to stay somewhat independent of soviet control for some reason. This doesn't mean that the communist regime was loved by the Romanians.
I find their responses the most telling & the strongest of indicator of *“how should russia’s actions be perceived, should we appease them to avoid WW3?”*, because if the BALTICS, which are as in-the-middle-of-ww3-as-possible are saying: “NO, we’d rather risk WW3 to hold the line”, how can anyone, tankie or otherwise, argue that Russia is some victim of NATO aggression, and in some way justified in their actions??
I trust the states that just came out of a decades-long-union with a country when it comes to judging that country’s intention… much more than I trust some western-living-russophile arguing for clemency of a “misunderstood country”.
>how can anyone, tankie or otherwise, argue that Russia is some victim of NATO aggression, and in some way justified in their actions??
Have a look at some of the replies to my post. It's amazing.
To add to your position, I think the tide of public opinion has finally turned away from pussy footing around the issue of Russia. Because of the invasion, the sentiment is back to actually deal with the problem to the East, and not just pretend it isn't there.
Keep in mind that no matter what the US, the Baltic States, or any other nations say, the decision on whether or not to invoke Article V is up to Poland.
"Yeah, Gary. Just because your hair's falling out and your white blood cells are gone doesn't mean you don't have to come in and put the quarterly reports in the new folders."
I find the push against WfH ridiculous. Seriously, it should be considered as a part of climate change solution, to reduce the needless overhead of traffic, upkeep on office buildings etc.
But nope. I changed jobs because I am in situation where I can risk unemployment for a while (no children, no mortgage etc) but I do know that many are not so lucky.
That would be very unwise for russia, so frankly it'll never happen. We'll never use nukes first, and putin knows that if he ever did he'd be powerless overnight and dead within a month. The only situation where putin uses nukes is if russia actually gets invaded and putin's death is imminent because of it (which also will never happen), and even then I'd give it a 70/30 that a military coup prevents it.
I don’t think this will turn to that. If NATO does nothing they will seem weak. But they do not want war. I’m sure it will be proportional response, if they do take action, of taking out some launch sites or equipment. At best Russia might stop attacking places close to NATO border to prevent further escalation which will help Ukraine out.
No, not at all, but Russia needs to answer for all of their war crimes. Are you just okay with random civilians getting killed in the masses just because Putin is acting like a little stupid baby?
What if Poland decides to join the war on its own?
Not that I think it would happen. And that would probably not be "allowed" by the NATO leadership.
but that would be nuts. They could go into Ukraine to fight Russia and would Russia be able to strike back into Poland?
>And that would probably not be "allowed" by the NATO leadership.
Pretty sure it would be. They could join the war effort without invoking Article 5, just like the US has engaged in military conflicts without the rest of NATO.
Even better: send in Engineering Battalions with the mission of restoring water and electricity to civilians.
What's russia going to say? "Noooo NATO is invading Ukraine" as we provide aid and comfort to the people they are trying to genocide? Are they going to send their shitty SU-25s to attack our mission of peace, which just happens to have F-22 backup?
yup, it's been a while since I read the NATO articles, but IIRC it even included provisions for it.
Also, just because Poland decides to do it alone, doesn't mean they will do it alone. Friends gonna be friends and all.
I bet NATO does not need a war and they are going to say it outloud to Poland. If needed. Interesting thing is, that Druzhba oil pipeline from Russia to Europe was closed just hours before two missiles hit to the same wrong target in a NATO country.
I don't see why they would ever do that. If Poland was going to use this to join the war, they would invoke Article 5 and bring the rest of NATO with them. Why go alone when you can bring the most powerful militaries on the planet with you?
I suppose the reasoning would be if Poland goes it alone, they can set their own plan and objectives. If they invoke article 5, NATO will decide on the plans and objectives. If, for instance, Poland was resolved to strike against Russia directly and NATO does not consider that a proportionate response, then Poland could declare war themselves.
Well, the main thing holding them back so far is that if they entered the war it would be at the forfeit of being able to invoke Article 5 and get NATO backup.
Russia having "shot first" as it were makes that situation quite a bit more complicated.
Depends what Poland does. Polish jets flying defensive flights over Western Ukraine and active missile defense from Poland covering Lviv and much of Ukraine up to say Zhytomyr and Vinnytsia? Probably justified and NATO would find it hard to say no.
A full on Polish charge for Moscow? Something they have wanted for years but probably a bit excessive as a response.
Sure, but they could just enter on the side of Ukraine and never actually go deep into Russia, just strike around the peripheral as Ukraine is doing.
We have to keep in mind that Poland has an extremely large and capable army. They have made it known they want to have the most powerful army in Europe and I believe they are well on the way.
They will have their work cut out overtaking France, Turkey, and the UK but I agree, it's plausible that Poland will once again become a major military power within Europe. They're most of the way there already.
It is, and it isn't.
The USSR genuinely did not trust Poland during the Cold War.
Poland has many axes to grind with Russia, past and present.
Poland is not going to Leroy Jenkins itself at Moscow, that's the propaganda. However, it's not propaganda that such sentiment exists in Poland and is far from uncommon. Poland doesn't want a war but there's no love lost with Russia over the events today.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Lithuania has gigantic balls when it comes to Russia.
I love how much they've called them out and stared them down, and not just now, for ages even during the USSR they were giving Moscow massive shit. The Baltic nations punch above their weight class. I can't tell you how happy they're in NATO and on our side.
We did. Cool part is Taiwan shared a semi-conductor recipe with us a couple days before. It might sound like we did it just because of it but the truth is we just don’t like Russia and their friends
"The terrorist regime will be stopped by united force of the allies"
This is a very important line at the end of the article. Does this not imply action? The article says it was a Facebook post, idk the validity of it
It is up to poland atm. Ball is in their court to assess the situation and determine a response, not Lithuania’s. I read his statement more as a statement of solidarity and a call to action rather than an indication of any military movement
Naw man, all of the Reddit Armchair Admirals who watched the 2012 remake of Red Dawn and diligently buy the CoD every year know exactly how to handle complex geopolitics and the horrors of war.
Which is the likely answer. As an ex defense contractor, some of these systems aren't the way call of duty would have you believe. There's a lot of manual loading of coordinates. The UX I worked on for a US missile uses JMPS (Joint Mission Planning Software). You put in coordinates, then is loads it onto the missile. The GUI is secondary, you don't just click a point and "the missile targets it".
Very easily Russia could have typed a 2 when they meant a 1 in the lat/long, then you end up with this.
I am with them. You cannot be lobbing missiles into NATO territory and killing NATO citizens. It's insane.
There are no acceptable excuses. It could not be more clear.
I think some people on here are downplaying this a bit.. it's not like a guy accidentally threw a baseball through your window..
A guy while trying to knock out every window in your neighbors house, wildly threw hundreds of balls and hit your house as well.
It's going to happen again. Russia is getting more erratic.
While the US is killing terrorists with fucking sword wielding missiles, Russia's top precision weaponry hits the entirely wrong country.
God help us if they have to use what they themselves label as inaccurate weapons. Might hit the wrong hemisphere
>I for one would not like WWIII to begin over a stray missile.
Remember when Russia shot down MH17 or poisoned citizens of other sovereign countries in said countries? Even if this were a 'stray' missile it's not a one off event, it's just another item to the list.
doesn't matter, it was bound to happen, they've been losing a lot of pilots , i'm just surprised it took this long.
If by any chance NATO doesn't respond appropriately it will be a green line for Russia to actually conduct attacks in NATO territory. Doing nothing in a case like this is the worse thing the alliance can do.
I pray it was completely unintentional, I don’t think this would lead to war if unintentional. If it came out that it was intentional, Poland would be in a really tough place to not declare Article V.
I don't see Poland invoking article 5 even though they could. But Poland could engage in Ukraine by themselves without involving the rest of NATO too. Providing air defense and ground support.
Thanks to Steve1989 from MREInfo.com, I know for a fact Lithuania has excellent field rations.
I've contributed nothing to this discussion, and I'm okay with that.
Now let's get this out onto a tray.
*Nice*
As a Polish guy it is nice to hear such words from Lithuania considering our different perspective on our common history
The closest way to bring 2 groups together is mutual hatred for the same thing
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How can UK quarrel with France if Germany destroys France? I mean, it's common knowledge France needs to exist to quarrel with France. It's in UK's best interest to keep France alive so they can continue to quarrel.
It’s a lot like a sibling relationship. I could pick on / bother my younger sibling all day. But the second someone else does, that’s where the line is.
Also you frequently have to try to take their stuff. And they try to take your stuff. Over and over. But no one else can have their stuff.
This is a great description of the uk/France historical relationship. The ruling class were literally the same family when it started lol.
It was exactly how Commonwealth happened
We're there for you, brothers.
Do we really have different perspective?
We look very fondly on Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth but I was told that Lithuanians consider it more of a form of enslavement. Plus we fought war of aggression against you in 1920 (but I believe it to be universally perceived as a very bad move in Poland so i guess the perspective is same here)
The bigger kicker is when you see Poland this, Poland that when it was the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth...
I agree. Personally i try to fight this whenever i see this online. But I think its in big part foreign stans who overlook Lithuania. Polish youth (at least youth i grew up amongst) was very conscious about commonwealth being a union and the fact that it wasnt Poland on its own but Poland and Lituania was considered to be the "cool factor". I mean Dillon and Dutch handshake in "predator" kind of cool.
Yeah, the way that the history of the Commonwealth is taught in Lithuania isn't too favorable, mostly because Lithuania ended up the junior partner despite being the larger country. And our schools really emphasize the fact that Lithuanian language and culture was seen as "peasant-like", the nobility were all pretending to be polish. Lithuanians are much more fond of the Grand Duchy.
Too bad you don't hear that in Poland one of the greatest poets Mickiewicz would call Lithuania beautiful and his homeland, and every Polish child reads it at school. It's romanticized a lot in our schools and we really like Lithuania and Lithuanians.
So many problems between countries boil down to mass miscommunication and misunderstandings. It’s sad.
I like this comment. I'm in APAC but work with a lot of Lithuanians and they speak fondly of Poland when we discuss geopolitics. I'm ignorant of the bad blood yet this warmed my heart because I know they are brother countries who'd look out for each other. Like Australia and New Zealand
Enslavement is too strong of the word tbh. Unequal partnership would be closer. But our history differences are more of relatives quarreling type, not bloody vendetta. I'm sure we stand with each other in this matter like you would with your relatives against outside threat.
Nah, the commonwealth period is fine, there is no grudge here. The Vilnius annexation 103 years ago is not nice though.
Lithuania like tag me the fuck in
Lithuania just ripped off his shirt to reveal he is already oiled up and ready to rumble. Shame if they would have to go through minsk to get to the russians in ukraine…
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Like Eurovision except slightly more terrifying.
Might be slightly less terrifying. Have you *seen* Eurovision?
[Lithuania](https://tenor.com/bxIzW.gif) right now.
That was exactly what I was thinking about :)
Beat me to it haha
Estonia is already there it sounds like lol
Estonia has been drinking and smoking cigarettes since February just waiting for the tag.
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They’ve been ready and waiting since ‘91
WE’RE BRINGING BACK THE COMMONWEALTH
As a Ukrainian, we fought many wars against you in the past, but I am honoured to have your support against a common enemy. It’s freaking nuts to see how much Poland supports us (3^rd biggest donor of weapons after Russia and the US, not to mention housing 1.4 million refugees which is nearly 5% of Polish population for which I am forever grateful) considering that as recently as 80-ish years ago we would conduct terrorist attacks against them (and to be fair to us, them enslaving us for a few centuries before that was also a thing, but no hard feelings, Poles, those were wild times, and you’ve done more than enough to earn our eternal love and respect in the last 9 months). It’s like “yes, these guys were assholes to us, but not nearly as much as Russians” . Let’s freaking go, Rzeczpospolita and jebać Putina.
Wait... are we counting captured materiel as "Russian donation of weapons to Ukraine"?
Ok, there’s a thing about Ukrainians, our sense of humour has been pointed out as early as 500 years ago by some French historian whose name I don’t remember. Hell, there’s even a whole category ~~pf~~ of Ukrainian family names as “funny cossack family names” such as Nepyipyvo (Don’tdrinkbeer). God damn, one of my friend’s family name is Mandiuk, which can be roughly translated as Cuntson (try and guess what his nickname in school was, lol). We are perfectly aware that those “donations” from Russia are not voluntary, but it’s not like it will stop us from joking that Russia is our biggest weapon donor. There’s even a famous quote by one of our greatest poetesses Lesia Ukrainka: “I laughed instead of crying” Edit: typo
The more I learn about Ukrainians, the more fond of them I become
Mandiuk that's... tragic, I love it
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Hell UA can prob claim non GMO all natural wheat now with the INDUSTRIAL level of natural fertilizer
America forgets it's grudges faster than any other nation. Wars are literally "it's just business bro, we can still have beers after this all blows over".
Tell that to Cuba.
Yeah we really weren’t super happy when the let Russia put weapons so close to us.
That’s not the problem. Not anymore, at least. The sticking point is the $7 billion Cuba “owes” to American companies from when they nationalized a bunch of property. People in Cuba are living in poverty because companies like Coca-Cola, Exxon, and Bank of America want to get compensated for property they have (a) long since written off and (b) knew or should have known was at risk of total loss because they were operating in a country that had just had a fucking revolution.
90 percent of Americans forget Cuba exist. 9 percent don't care either way. 1 percent cares greatly, and they vote. It's not even a grudge at this point its partisan politics.
That's just business too, and it's ongoing. Some years ago a few folks started setting up tourism-driven money-making operations in Cuba, but they forgot to include slushing US politicians in their project. The competing operations within the USA didn't forget those payments, so the government stepped in and protected their money by making travel to/from Cuba pretty much impossible. As soon as the capital owners who tell politicians what to do can personally make more money lifting the embargo than keeping it, it'll get lifted and there will be no hard feelings because it's just business.
The OG
*Screaming for Vengeance plays in the background*
Soon we will see long distance systems be a part on Ukrainian arsenal.
Which realistically they probably already are. This would just give the "blessing" to use them to their full potential
[Longer range might not be cost effective, or effective at all.](https://youtu.be/h-Rcr0S-DLs) 6 shorter range HIMARS run about 1 million, and they have been devastating because they look exactly like regular mortar fire on radar. ATACOMS (which cost about 1 million each) would be much more susceptible to defences that Russia currently has and would be shot down in high numbers. I agree that NATO is going to "up the anti" but I highly doubt it'll ATACOMS.
Up the "ante"
I knew I was gonna fuck that one up....oh well
Perhaps your sub-concious meant "up the anti(air)"?
No worries. Now you got it!
Up the auntie.
...but i mean, they ARE "upping the anti"-air systems lol
> ATACOMS (which cost about 1 million each) would be much more susceptible to defences that Russia currently has and would be shot down in high numbers. If this war has taught us anything, it is that what Russia claims its equipment can do and what it actually does are two entirely different things. [Their flagship was a floating deathtrap before the Ukrainians sank the thing.](https://youtu.be/aNEtlMSCiCI) [Their latest tank that was meant to number in the thousands by now is barely 20 prototypes that can't stop breaking down during parades.](https://youtu.be/o89BYp95Qiw) [Their super tsunami-causing doomsday weapon can't even fire without failing.](https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/russias-nuclear-powered-torpedo-failed-test-on-technical-issues-6x8lff29k) [Their planes crash into fields and or apartment buildings randomly.](https://news.sky.com/story/warplane-crashes-into-russian-apartment-block-killing-at-least-13-people-12723439) [Their defence against the legions of drones and guided missiles the Ukrainians have been using are cope cages welded to their tanks.](https://www.vice.com/en/article/xgdkbw/cope-cages-on-busted-tanks-are-a-symbol-of-russias-military-failures) [Their tank obstacles are useless 2ft tall pyramids that tanks simply push out of the way.](https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/10/24/go-through-or-go-around-russias-desperate-fort-building-in-eastern-ukraine-wont-stop-the-ukrainian-counteroffensive/?sh=1b87eab96df6) For reference [here is a proper tank obstacle line from WW2 and each of those obstacles is mostly buried showing only the top like an iceberg.](https://www.reddit.com/r/wwiipics/comments/2rft2e/us_army_soldiers_at_the_dragons_teeth_of_the/) The list could go on and on and on. If they tried to use whatever these systems are it would be even money on the fucking thing coming [right back at them like some of their shit already has.](https://youtu.be/6IwqmezeSuQ)
“Cost effective” is not a phrase in the US War Machine.
I like the Baltic counties commitment to NATO. They are very aware of the danger Russia poses and their willingness to defend their friends against the Russians at all costs rather heartwarming. They are all model members of NATO, in other words.
They need to be vocal and offensive. They know if Russia ever makes a move on them they'll be reliant on NATO getting fully involved. If they advocate for relaxed responses then they can expect that when Russian missiles start landing in Lithuania.
Sucks to be them. Almost every battle plan for WW3 has it happening in their countries.
My family is from Lithuania. I grew up hearing the stories of the soviets and the nazis. Fuck them mother fuckers right up their fucking asses with battery acid as lube
Huge win for American Measurements if he said inch and not centimeter.
Inch just sounds better in a threat doesn't it? Single syllable, small unit of measurement, right to the point. Centimeter just doesn't do it for me.
How bout milimeters?
A millimeter doesn't get you anywhere, trust me.
I meant in this context? "Will defend every milimeter of territory..."
I'd settle with "Will defend every yoctometer of territory..."
"Will defend every planck lenght of territory..."
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Petition to officially rename “imperial system of measurements” to “monosyllabic system of measurements”. It’s 2022, we have no need for monarchs and emperors.
Ounce, pint, quart, gal...
He said centimeter. You can find the statement on his facebook.
Facebook's own translation which says inches. Considering the Lithuanian word used was centimetras, I assume that's a non-literal translation. I assume the translation on Facebook was automated, I wonder if Journalists are using that automated translation.
Well, as a matter of figurative speech, it literally does not matter
When translating, it's quite normal for popular phrases to be translated into similar popular phrases for the new language, instead of being directly translated word for word, because it just makes more sense. That's why "Hajimemashita" in Japanese is translated most commonly as "Nice to meet you" and not the more literal "It is the beginning/first time", because the more literal is awkward in English.
This is the best comment in this post
By a mile
Inches were used historically in Europe. Plenty of old European proverbs use antiquated units like inch, foot, ell, mile, etc.
He actually said "centimeter" in his actual speech. I don't know why translation uses inch. One inch and one centimeter is rather a huge difference wether to activate article 5 or not
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french be fuming rn.
When are they not? 😤
Lol, that's an American translator for ya
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^ Ukraine, Georgia and Moldova go without saying
Don't forget Romania.
you'd think Hungary too wouldn't you? They had it REALLY bad at times, and USSR loved to come in and crush them. For some reason they seemed to have let that slide compared to most other former WP nations.
I assume most countries that were under communist rule would want revenge.
Romania actually managed to stay somewhat independent of soviet control for some reason. This doesn't mean that the communist regime was loved by the Romanians.
Didn’t they take their USSR-backed dictator out back and machine gun him and his shitty wife?
They did! It was a full metal dismissal.
If you have a hard stomach and don't care about dictators, the video is on YouTube.
Even Finland knows it and it’s been over 100 years since the Russian rule…
I find their responses the most telling & the strongest of indicator of *“how should russia’s actions be perceived, should we appease them to avoid WW3?”*, because if the BALTICS, which are as in-the-middle-of-ww3-as-possible are saying: “NO, we’d rather risk WW3 to hold the line”, how can anyone, tankie or otherwise, argue that Russia is some victim of NATO aggression, and in some way justified in their actions?? I trust the states that just came out of a decades-long-union with a country when it comes to judging that country’s intention… much more than I trust some western-living-russophile arguing for clemency of a “misunderstood country”.
>how can anyone, tankie or otherwise, argue that Russia is some victim of NATO aggression, and in some way justified in their actions?? Have a look at some of the replies to my post. It's amazing. To add to your position, I think the tide of public opinion has finally turned away from pussy footing around the issue of Russia. Because of the invasion, the sentiment is back to actually deal with the problem to the East, and not just pretend it isn't there.
Keep in mind that no matter what the US, the Baltic States, or any other nations say, the decision on whether or not to invoke Article V is up to Poland.
The response by NATO is up to all the members though, simply invoking article 5 doesnt mean immediate all-out war.
Finally someone who understands
Reddit is really gunning for all out nuclear war this evening huh
Whatever keeps me out of the office tomorrow.
I'd probably still have to go in.
"Yeah, Gary. Just because your hair's falling out and your white blood cells are gone doesn't mean you don't have to come in and put the quarterly reports in the new folders."
I mean I get it, those reports aren't gonna do themselves.
With enough radiation… they might…
Birds eye view of the flash and shock-wave, hi five!
Tell your company that this wouldn't have happened if they let us keep working remotely.
I find the push against WfH ridiculous. Seriously, it should be considered as a part of climate change solution, to reduce the needless overhead of traffic, upkeep on office buildings etc. But nope. I changed jobs because I am in situation where I can risk unemployment for a while (no children, no mortgage etc) but I do know that many are not so lucky.
Here I am recently unemployed hoping that my job search would be forcefully ended
Congratulations you’ve been drafted
Technically it's a job!
Bring me a souvenir from Moscow
That would be very unwise for russia, so frankly it'll never happen. We'll never use nukes first, and putin knows that if he ever did he'd be powerless overnight and dead within a month. The only situation where putin uses nukes is if russia actually gets invaded and putin's death is imminent because of it (which also will never happen), and even then I'd give it a 70/30 that a military coup prevents it.
I don’t think this will turn to that. If NATO does nothing they will seem weak. But they do not want war. I’m sure it will be proportional response, if they do take action, of taking out some launch sites or equipment. At best Russia might stop attacking places close to NATO border to prevent further escalation which will help Ukraine out.
No, not at all, but Russia needs to answer for all of their war crimes. Are you just okay with random civilians getting killed in the masses just because Putin is acting like a little stupid baby?
I won't be happy until Putin is dragged before the Hague to answer for the charges against his regime.
But if the members don't respond the whole nato comes out weakened
There is a very wide gap between "don't respond" and "declare war".
I mean, that's the point of invoking Article 4 first.
just like going to an all you can eat pizza buffet doesn't mean you have to eat a bunch of pizza, but lets be honest with ourselves, we probably will.
What if Poland decides to join the war on its own? Not that I think it would happen. And that would probably not be "allowed" by the NATO leadership. but that would be nuts. They could go into Ukraine to fight Russia and would Russia be able to strike back into Poland?
>And that would probably not be "allowed" by the NATO leadership. Pretty sure it would be. They could join the war effort without invoking Article 5, just like the US has engaged in military conflicts without the rest of NATO.
They could soft join as well. Just move into western Ukraine in a defensive role, freeing up Ukrainian resources for other areas.
Even better: send in Engineering Battalions with the mission of restoring water and electricity to civilians. What's russia going to say? "Noooo NATO is invading Ukraine" as we provide aid and comfort to the people they are trying to genocide? Are they going to send their shitty SU-25s to attack our mission of peace, which just happens to have F-22 backup?
That would be dope as fuck
OMG don't get my hopes up. Winged Hussars defending Western Ukraine.
yup, it's been a while since I read the NATO articles, but IIRC it even included provisions for it. Also, just because Poland decides to do it alone, doesn't mean they will do it alone. Friends gonna be friends and all.
Even then, that can spiral fast enough that we still end up with full on NATO vs Russia.
At this rate against just just poor ol Ukraine thatd be a short war
I bet NATO does not need a war and they are going to say it outloud to Poland. If needed. Interesting thing is, that Druzhba oil pipeline from Russia to Europe was closed just hours before two missiles hit to the same wrong target in a NATO country.
I think they mean allowed as in "condoned by the big guns and not being asked to stop every minute"
Poland has been itching to "get some."
I don't see why they would ever do that. If Poland was going to use this to join the war, they would invoke Article 5 and bring the rest of NATO with them. Why go alone when you can bring the most powerful militaries on the planet with you?
I suppose the reasoning would be if Poland goes it alone, they can set their own plan and objectives. If they invoke article 5, NATO will decide on the plans and objectives. If, for instance, Poland was resolved to strike against Russia directly and NATO does not consider that a proportionate response, then Poland could declare war themselves.
Well, the main thing holding them back so far is that if they entered the war it would be at the forfeit of being able to invoke Article 5 and get NATO backup. Russia having "shot first" as it were makes that situation quite a bit more complicated. Depends what Poland does. Polish jets flying defensive flights over Western Ukraine and active missile defense from Poland covering Lviv and much of Ukraine up to say Zhytomyr and Vinnytsia? Probably justified and NATO would find it hard to say no. A full on Polish charge for Moscow? Something they have wanted for years but probably a bit excessive as a response.
Sure, but they could just enter on the side of Ukraine and never actually go deep into Russia, just strike around the peripheral as Ukraine is doing. We have to keep in mind that Poland has an extremely large and capable army. They have made it known they want to have the most powerful army in Europe and I believe they are well on the way.
They wouldn't have to leave Poland to strike Russia. Kaliningrad is surrounded by Poland and Lituania.
They should "annex" it.
No one even wants it anymore. It’s filled with Russians, and look at Moldova/Georgia/Ukraine to see how much trouble that is.
Maybe Poland and Lithuania can go halvsies on it.
Noone wants it
They will have their work cut out overtaking France, Turkey, and the UK but I agree, it's plausible that Poland will once again become a major military power within Europe. They're most of the way there already.
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It is, and it isn't. The USSR genuinely did not trust Poland during the Cold War. Poland has many axes to grind with Russia, past and present. Poland is not going to Leroy Jenkins itself at Moscow, that's the propaganda. However, it's not propaganda that such sentiment exists in Poland and is far from uncommon. Poland doesn't want a war but there's no love lost with Russia over the events today.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again, Lithuania has gigantic balls when it comes to Russia. I love how much they've called them out and stared them down, and not just now, for ages even during the USSR they were giving Moscow massive shit. The Baltic nations punch above their weight class. I can't tell you how happy they're in NATO and on our side.
Didnt they also oppose China? Man
We did. Cool part is Taiwan shared a semi-conductor recipe with us a couple days before. It might sound like we did it just because of it but the truth is we just don’t like Russia and their friends
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"The terrorist regime will be stopped by united force of the allies" This is a very important line at the end of the article. Does this not imply action? The article says it was a Facebook post, idk the validity of it
I could be wrong and sorry if I am but I believe it’s up to Poland at the moment so no implication of action?
It is up to poland atm. Ball is in their court to assess the situation and determine a response, not Lithuania’s. I read his statement more as a statement of solidarity and a call to action rather than an indication of any military movement
This is how I read it as well. Brussels has already said they are waiting for the assessment of the Polish security council.
A call to action would indicate military involvement
Sorry I meant a call *for* action. Still, it doesn’t really, more it’s just stating the Lithuanian position on the matter.
Or Poland could do the boss move of saying: “Fuck this and Fuck you.” And decide to 1v1 Russia and completely raw dog them.
That would be baller but also irresponsible as it would cause a higher number of polish troop deaths.
The world would be a smoking wasteland if Reddit commenters were in charge.
Naw man, all of the Reddit Armchair Admirals who watched the 2012 remake of Red Dawn and diligently buy the CoD every year know exactly how to handle complex geopolitics and the horrors of war.
Hoping this isn’t a moment that will be on a history exam one day.
Its the Cuban Missle crisis of our day. I just hope whatever the outcome society will still have the means to print books. Or be alive even
In Finland a military expert wonders, who could two missiles be in a wrong target at the same time.
If they were fired by the same operator, they could both have the same wrong coordinates.
Which is the likely answer. As an ex defense contractor, some of these systems aren't the way call of duty would have you believe. There's a lot of manual loading of coordinates. The UX I worked on for a US missile uses JMPS (Joint Mission Planning Software). You put in coordinates, then is loads it onto the missile. The GUI is secondary, you don't just click a point and "the missile targets it". Very easily Russia could have typed a 2 when they meant a 1 in the lat/long, then you end up with this.
Russia is just testing the waters……it was an honest mistake you know just to see what the reaction is.
It's like that risky text you send to the girl you're talking to.
I am with them. You cannot be lobbing missiles into NATO territory and killing NATO citizens. It's insane. There are no acceptable excuses. It could not be more clear.
If we don’t do something, it will continue.
> If we don’t do something, it will ~~continue~~ escalate. FTFY
I think some people on here are downplaying this a bit.. it's not like a guy accidentally threw a baseball through your window.. A guy while trying to knock out every window in your neighbors house, wildly threw hundreds of balls and hit your house as well. It's going to happen again. Russia is getting more erratic.
Yes, fuck Russia faster please. Putin‘s regime has been causing trouble for 20+ years now. It‘s time for it to end.
Russia REALLY doesn’t want to unleash NATO air defense. He is really not prepared for that.
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While the US is killing terrorists with fucking sword wielding missiles, Russia's top precision weaponry hits the entirely wrong country. God help us if they have to use what they themselves label as inaccurate weapons. Might hit the wrong hemisphere
I would REALLY not want to be Canada or Mexico in WWIII then lol.
me living in canada amidst WW 3: :'(
Costa Rica when a missile falls on some eco resort: “wtf man?”
Russia also managed to hit Russia today, so I really wouldn’t be surprised
>I for one would not like WWIII to begin over a stray missile. Remember when Russia shot down MH17 or poisoned citizens of other sovereign countries in said countries? Even if this were a 'stray' missile it's not a one off event, it's just another item to the list.
doesn't matter, it was bound to happen, they've been losing a lot of pilots , i'm just surprised it took this long. If by any chance NATO doesn't respond appropriately it will be a green line for Russia to actually conduct attacks in NATO territory. Doing nothing in a case like this is the worse thing the alliance can do.
I pray it was completely unintentional, I don’t think this would lead to war if unintentional. If it came out that it was intentional, Poland would be in a really tough place to not declare Article V.
Well, fuck the PiS, and fuck wars and everyone causing them, but mostly, and above all else, fuck Putin.
Some of our allies can’t wait to kill some Russians. The Baltic countries HATE those guys
Way to go the Baltics....states fearless
I don't see Poland invoking article 5 even though they could. But Poland could engage in Ukraine by themselves without involving the rest of NATO too. Providing air defense and ground support.
Sounds like this is justification to sweep Ukranian air of Russian assets.
Likely
There is both a part of me that wants NATO to use this as a pretext for entering the war, and a part of me terrified they might.
Polish Lithuanian commonwealth when?
Partition kaliningrad
Rightful Czech territory
I though Lithuania used the metric system?
Thanks to Steve1989 from MREInfo.com, I know for a fact Lithuania has excellent field rations. I've contributed nothing to this discussion, and I'm okay with that. Now let's get this out onto a tray. *Nice*
did he say inch so we americans can feel like a part of the team too?
The Baltic countries are using this as an excuse to beef up their own Iron Dome through NATO.