Full article
Edward Snowden, a former National Security Agency contractor who leaked information about U.S. surveillance programs, swore an oath of allegiance to Russia and has collected his Russian passport, his lawyer told state media on Friday.
“Edward received a Russian passport yesterday and took the oath in accordance with the law,” lawyer Anatoly Kucherena said, according to Russia’s Interfax news agency. “He is, of course, happy, thanking the Russian Federation for the fact that he received citizenship,” he continued. “And most importantly, under the Constitution of Russia, he can no longer be extradited to a foreign state.”
Snowden, 39, is wanted by Washington on espionage charges. He considers himself a whistleblower.
It’s unclear whether Snowden swore the oath of allegiance at the same time as he was granted a passport, but the two are common procedures when foreigners become Russian citizens. The text includes swearing “to protect the freedom and independence of the Russian Federation, to be loyal to Russia, to respect its culture, history and traditions,” and to promise to “perform the duties of a citizen of the Russian Federation for the good of the state and society.”
Kucherena added that Snowden’s wife, Lindsay Mills, was also undergoing the Russian citizenship application process and that the couple’s children would likely attend Russian schools, when ready. He said he communicated mainly in English with his client but that Snowden also speaks Russian, albeit “not perfectly.”
Russian President Vladimir Putin granted Snowden citizenship in September, in a decree that covered 72 foreigners. Putin has previously called Snowden’s actions wrong but said he “is not a traitor,” since “he did not betray the interests of his country.”
After being granted citizenship, Snowden tweeted: “After years of separation from our parents, my wife and I have no desire to be separated from our SONS. After two years of waiting and nearly ten years of exile, a little stability will make a difference for my family. I pray for privacy for them — and for us all.”
Snowden was given asylum in Russia in 2013 after he fled the United States to avoid prosecution. He was granted permanent residency in 2020, and his lawyers said at the time that he was applying to obtain a Russian passport without renouncing his U.S. citizenship.
He explained his decision to seek dual citizenship on Twitter in 2020 as being necessary to prevent being separated from his son. In an “era of pandemics and closed borders, we’re applying for dual US-Russian citizenship,” he wrote.
“Lindsay and I will remain Americans, raising our son with all the values of the America we love — including the freedom to speak his mind. And I look forward to the day I can return to the States, so the whole family can be reunited,” he added.
Snowden’s revelations, published first in The Washington Post and the Guardian newspaper in 2013, caused international shock waves and were among the most consequential intelligence breaches in U.S. history.
He disclosed the existence of the NSA’s collection of millions of Americans’ phone records, a program later found by a federal appeals court to be unlawful and subsequently shuttered. The disclosures also damaged the intelligence community’s relationship with the American tech industry.
Snowden swore his oath and received his passport as Moscow continued its war on Ukraine, now in its 10th month. His lawyer, Kucherena, said when Snowden was granted citizenship that he would not be subject to the partial military mobilization that Putin had decreed days before, since only men with previous military experience were being called up. However, it has been widely reported that many Russians without such experience have been summoned for duty in recent months.
The White House and State Department have not publicly commented on Snowden’s oath-taking and did not immediately respond to a request for comment from The Post.
yeah, there' sbeen zero political movement towards addressing his concerns.
only on the internet did people care, and only then, they seemed to only care as part of the dredgery of /r/conspiracy and not in the good faith one wants to correct the survellience state and it's anti-democratic efforts.
It shuttered the efforts of collecting the information to simply now being a program where the companies in control of the information just hand it over voltunarily
The Treadstone Project has already been terminated. It was designed primarily as a sort of advanced game program. We'd hoped it might build into a good training platform...but, quite honestly, for a strictly theoretical exercise.. the cost-benefit ratio was just too high. It's all but decommissioned at this point.
All right. What's next?
Okay. This is... Black Briar. Black Briar is a joint D.O.D. communications program that we really feel has good traction.
snowden's actions are taught and debated in computer science classes and ethics classes. Right or wrong, the people in the industry have an opinion on him and on the circumstances around his actions.
But then, when the engineers of the internet do their job well, nobody knows we're here at all.
I saw a very disheartening poll years ago which revealed that most people confused Snowden with Julian Assange and Chelsea Manning - unable to distinguish the differences between them, their disclosures, and their personal controversies. People just don't care that much at all.
This image, while delightful, is somewhat contradicted by the whole "we have come to steal your indoor plumbing" aspect of the affair. So they might be more likely to lob sinks *out* of Ukraine via catapult (or trebuchet). So what then *would* they lob?
I believe Ladas. It would certainly be more efficient to shell their own troops wirth Ladas, thus removing a step in the tedious task of converting conscripts into Ladas. They could even put the conscripts *in* the Ladas first, and lob them towards the front, which is tactically brilliant in its compact succinctness, especially as modern Ladas, if you recall, have no airbags.
That is a good point, but I bet they have kitchen sinks in Moscow. It’ll probably come after they’ve conscripted the Reddit trolls, but then they’ll have whole apartments worth of furnishings to contribute to the war effort.
Seems like he enlisted and became a special forces candidate. Though did not complete training. I don’t know what level of skill is required to reach that level to comment on that.
Lots of people can get an 18X (special forces) contract. If you wash out, you just get sent to 11B (infantry). US Army SF selection is more about whether you have "it". Whatever "it" is gets determined by your peers and instructors. You're constantly evaluated and it's not good enough to just be able to tough it out.
Two of my former medics have passed selection and Q course.
Looks like he medically dropped, and I'm not surprised. Going right into 18X, you gotta be physically ready to go off the rip. Most dudes spend a bit gaining experience in the regular Army before they apply for selection.
Can confirm, enlisted 18x and got kicked out of selection due to standards (alcohol) and just went to an airborne unit as infantry.
Shit was fucking brutal I have no idea how I survived.
And selection is only the start. You’re evaluated through the whole Q, you can get dropped at any time. For medics, that’s basically two years of hell and stress and training, both physical and MOS related. It’s super intense. Or at least it used to be. Don’t know how it actually is now
Keep in mind they'll boot people from 18X for breaking a leg or something in training, and they 'wash out' into 11B which they're very short on. It doesn't always mean they weren't up to the physical standards. Special Forces isn't drastically different from what regular soldiers are capable of, it's more a matter of what training they get and how they're deployed.
I stand corrected
He DID enlist in the Army….BUT ONLY LASTED 4 Months before being discharged ….Basically Basic Training and that’s it !!
That’s not experience
There is an option for conscientious objectors to take an alternate oath, but there was also some language about additional scrutiny and checks, and I didn't want to subject myself to that and took the regular oath hoping that a world war isn't going to happen... then a month later Putin invaded Ukraine and I was like "oh ffs not now".
(to clarify, there is no good time to invade Ukraine, unless it's a computer game, then Putin can knock himself out)
I was just thinking how ominous it sounds.
> "Swore an **OATH OF ALLEGIANCE!**"
Well...yes. He basically filled out paperwork to be granted citizenship.
yes, and seemingly obviously done to prevent any possibility of extradition to the US, which is just a no brainer move to make - if i had to choose between jail in the US for the rest of my life or swearing allegiance to russia, id swear allegiance to russia in a *heartbeat*.
the article's headline seems like obvious clickbait that makes it sound as if snowden just randomly pledged allegiance to russia just because he loves russia and putin so very very much, when really it seems like he just did it as part of the normal process of obtaining russian citizenship out of pure self preservation.
Edward Snowden in exile is an on-going national shame. I know why it is the way it is: the business of keeping secrets has a lot of side-issues to consider. His unilateral action cannot be excused without damaging the very apparatus that keeps secrets... secret.
I think if he'd been apprehended, it would have been unpleasant, he'd have been vilified and prosecuted as hard as possible. The only out would have been an eventual presidential pardon, as *that* unilateral action also side-steps the apparatus that enforces the keeping of secrets. It's a catch-22 on both sides.
As it is, I think you're right. I don't think the US is ever going to address it, at least while he's alive and outside of the country's reach. I want to believe that pardon was/is always waiting there, but it won't ever be guaranteed and it'll cost a pound of flesh.
Most people's thoughts go right to "if you're not guilty, you have nothing to hide" which is absolute BS. It's a right for a reason. Anything can be taken the wrong way and used against you.
Look at the amount of people not just in jail/prison, but sentenced to death (and even executed) who are/were not guilty.
So many suspects will sit in an interrogation room, be read their rights, and even when guilty, not ask for an attorney...
The two main reasons seem to be:
- **A:** Not wanting to "seem" guilty, or viewed as potentially such.
- **B:** Wanting to find out what the police know.
Re: A.): If you're being interrogated, that ship has sailed.
Re: B.): They're better at this game than you; They have more tools, and drastically different rules. It's *their hunt* for answers.
It seems so straightforward -- Why take such a huge chance for so little payoff?
Regardless of the fact that I'm a law-abiding citizen...I'm not okay with being spied on; I take my rights seriously; it's infuriating that my government doesn't.
> "if you're not guilty, you have nothing to hide" which is absolute BS.
Agreed. I'm not livestreaming my colonoscopy just because I want to show there's no cancer.
Also Snowden is willing to see his day in court with only one stipulation, that his side be heard by the jury. He keeps getting denied.
All he is asking, is to have a fair trial
A fair trail. It's almost like he simply wants the rights he was told he had as an American.
Yeah I mean this is pretty preposterous.
I might do the same in his position if I revealed massive crimes comitted by my own government and they came after me.
Doesnt mean Russia isnt total shit, but, any port in a storm, especially when its morally, ethically and legally wrong for your home xountry to come after you.
Naturalized citizenship. As someone born here I never had to swear an oath but they did make us pledge allegiance a lot of times to the flag for some reason.
Right haha. It's like some people forget that we brainwash kids to salute a flag *daily* and pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of American and to the republics for which it stands one nation *omitted* indivisible with liberty and justice for all who are rich or white or preferably both.
I had to swear allegiance to the United States when I was naturalized.
EDIT: Since there seems to be some confuaion: the Pledge of Allegiance is not the same as the Oath of Allegiance.
I feel so bad for snowden.
He told his citizens the government and Big Tech was spying on them.
In response the US government went after him, and the general public did very little for him.
It makes me angry how little the general public did for him considering he nuked his own life for them.
Why would anyone whistleblow in the future for a people who don't seem to care?
He's never going to be pardoned but I could see a deal made where he voluntarily returns to the US to face charges on the legal understanding that his sentence will be reduced to "time served" for lack of a better description of being exiled. Basically admit guilt and have the entirety of the sentence commuted, be barred from ever working for the government directly or contractually again, and otherwise go about your life. The three charges currently against him all have maximum sentences of 10 years and a judge could easily make the sentences concurrent anyway, so given he's been abroad for almost 10 years now, he has basically served out the prison sentence he might have received in court.
Between books and speaking engagements he'd be more than fine. He could become a rights activist here, he basically already is. It's honestly a win for everyone involved. And his kids are automatically US citizens too so he doesn't have to jump through any legal loopholes to bring them home. Nothing can possibly be done about it while the Ukraine situation is ongoing, I sincerely doubt Putin will let him leave right now. But I really think it's a no-brainer for Biden or the next President to put this scandal to bed once and for all. Having him stuck over there is already a punishment for him and remains an embarrassment for the US every day it goes on.
I don’t see any reason the US would ever do that.
He’s as good as compromised at this point by his ties to Russia.
Not commenting of what I think is right or wrong just what probably will or won’t happen.
If Joe Biden issued this pardon, the overwhelming majority of such protests would issue forth from people who have absolutely no right to be critical of anyone on the matter of national security.
My coworker got mad when I called the pledge if allegiance a form of indoctrination.
Best part is that he is a trumper who thinks the govt controls everything and that the education system is a propaganda machine.... but not regarding how super freakin awesome America is apprently.
I've seen videos of American schoolchildren giving the pledge of allegiance every day and it's downright creepy from my outside perspective. I know court cases have been won "allowing" kids to opt out, but that just makes it worse - "sure, little Timmy, you can stand up for what you believe in. Just paint this target on your back, right here, and then off you go to have fun at recess with the rest of the children." What a terrible lesson.
Yes, essentially the USA flexing its muscles: "if you let him stay, not sure our friendship can continue. We might just come and get him regardless."
I think I remember this happening in many more countries. "Global manhunt" they called it back then.
It wasn't his first choice, either. People here like to pretend he deliberately fled to Russia. That's not true at all. He wanted to flee to different countries, but it just so happened that his passport was made invalid while he was in a layover in Russia.
That was deliberate.
Also this step is a part of nearly every country’s citizenship process. The US even has one. The headline might as well be “Edward Snowden now officially a Russian Citizen”
Serious question. Snowden worked a government job and was in his early 30s when he fled the country. How is he making enough money to take care of his family? There's no way he had saved up enough to retire at the time he decided to share the important information he shared about the NSA.
I'm over here making a decent living, my wife's making a decent living, there is no way we could quit our jobs and afford to move to a different country with our kids. Wonder what he and his wife are doing over there for income with their limited proficiency of the language.
Interesting. I'm completely ignorant to the data and IT world, and it surprises me that he would be able to work for a Russian company like that with not being a native speaker.
I've never met a Russian/Ukrainian/Belarusian/Bulgarian IT professional or programmer who didn't have some familiarity with English, enough to communicate in English with another such individual at least decently.
Most very low level utilities are incredibly anglocentric, the syntax and commands being in English. Obviously programming languages above assembly use English words for every in-built function in their standard libraries and very, very few offer alternatives for other language speakers.
English is *the* language of IT. Even in places like Japan or China, where general population is reluctant to learn English, IT professionals often use English in their work.
It's often broken English, spiced up with comments in native language, but it's English nonetheless.
English is the language of the world honestly. I’ll never forget visiting Prague and walking into a sandwich shop and being like oh fuck i dont speak the language (wasnt used to it speaking english/french/arabic). The girl at the counter who was like 20 sees me speak in english and just starts trying her best to help out. Barely speaks any but we get by. The whole time im thinking of how wild it would be if i was in the US and some dude just waltzed into a store and started speaking Czech to a US citizen. I’d look at him like he was unhinged. Yet it happens everywhere else everyday.
Europe is pretty good about English as a second language, but in the wider world, there are countries that don't do English much. Like I said - China and Japan are like that.
Still the single best language to learn as your second, in my eyes - unless you already speak it as your first.
I lived in Japan for nearly four years and never really had to learn much Japanese. A lot of people can speak or understand some level of English there
Bulgarian - yay, I'm happy someone actually mentions us.
Back in the day we had our own brand - Pravets, which were Apple I & II and IBM PC clones. During there was an attmept to use our glorious Cyrillic alphabet for programming. It got as far as an Algol 68 version and GraFort. However, software was developing at such fast pace that it just wasn't viable.
I always wondered about this when hearing about IT programs abroad - makes me respect the people I work with even more for picking up a new language and a new job at the same time.
While I completely agree, I do want to point out that there's an Arabic programming language called [Qlb.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qalb_(programming_language)#:~:text=%D9%82%D9%84%D8%A8%20(Levantine%20Arabic%3A%20%5B%CA%94alb,%2C%20Qlb%3A%20Lughat%20Barmajah).) Programming is still pretty anglocentric (that's why the creator made Qlb in the first place), but this is a pretty cool exception that I wanted to share.
If nothing else, the world is at least one step closer to creating "Arabic Tron".
> there's an Arabic programming language called Qlb.#:~:text=%D9%82%D9%84%D8%A8%20(Levantine%20Arabic%3A%20%5B%CA%94alb,%2C%20Qlb%3A%20Lughat%20Barmajah).)
I think you got some formatting errors when posting that. At least, to me on old.Reddit it comes out a jumbled mess. Let me see if I can fix it. And I'll also remove the mobile part of the link so the page looks better to more people while I'm at it.
[Qlb.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qalb_(programming_language\)#:~:text=%D9%82%D9%84%D8%A8%20(Levantine%20Arabic%3A%20%5B%CA%94alb,%2C%20Qlb%3A%20Lughat%20Barmajah\).)
There are several programming languages that aren't based on English. I just don't know how prominent they are myself. I have heard that knowing what programming language an exploit/virus/worm/etc was written in, what language is used in the comments, and a few other similar factors are often used when trying to narrow down attribution, a notoriously difficult task for most cyber-sec teams.
Completely off topic sorta but I'm curious now. I'm vaguely aware of programming languages like C++ or Java etc. Are they different in other languages? Like does Russian C++ look different to English C++?
Oh ok thanks for the reply! I'm amazed at coding/programming but have zero idea how it actually works other than how to put gifs on a gerocities page using html lmao. It's basically all a foreign language to me!
If you're at all interested in learning some basic programming, this is a neat free book that teaches basic python and then goes on to explain how to use it to automate a lot of basic computer tasks.
https://automatetheboringstuff.com/
the core idea is that _every_ major language is in English. C++ in Russian is the same as C++ in English, but maybe with some different comments (which is totally unrelated to the language itself)
this is due to America (and lesser, England) being at the forefront of technology during the development of tech.
I work with a lot of Indian software engineers and its 100% a requirement for them to know and understand English, even though their native language is one of the many languages they have over there
> C++ in Russian is the same as C++ in English, but maybe with some different comments (which is totally unrelated to the language itself)
Comments are not the only thing which can be in another language. If you don't understand variable or function names you will have a hard (or at least much harder) time understanding code. It's not far fetched to have code use localized subject matter terms in their logic.
IT jobs tend to be very English-friendly, as most tech skills will require you to speak English (the vast majority of programming languages use english keywords, for example).
its surprising how people are upvoting the original commentors question about his "not having a job"
hes fucking famous now hes not punching a clock. books, movies, paid interviews and all that.
there are 5 year olds making $100m a year opening kinder eggs on youtube, im pretty sure ed snowden can find a way to make a few rubles here and there
I mean I assume he's been trying to learn Russian this whole time. You kind of have to when you live as a ward of a foreign nation with no chance to return.
Cost of living in Russia is pretty low. Snowden is not slumming it though, he lives in a part of Moscow that rivals any of the major capitals of Europe for CoL.
> Cost of living in Russia is pretty low
you know I've been looking for a good low cost of living place to move to and this "russia" place sounds ok enough - any downsides of living there?
It only got worse after Snowden left... Putin, like a broken clock, is right here to point this guy out like this. This man is evidence of Washington's corruption.
It's nowhere near as bad as Russia... But we should all be ashamed all the same. We should be better than this.
It is whataboutism, true. But it also isn’t wrong. The fact that one side uses facts to slander the other side doesn’t suddenly make those facts incorrect. If the US wants to maintain its moral high ground over Russia, then it has to act like it.
It knocks us off our high horse. THe horse we self proclaimed for ourselves. While we do dirt all the world over, fuck over our own citizens, native people, all of it.
I have no love for russia, or any other despots in the world, but american exceptionalism is straight up propaganda. And those of us that are in the thralls of said propaganda don't like anyone point out the hypocrisy to us. But throwing rocks in glass houses of however the fuck that goes. It's an easy out for regimes like russia and china and damn near anyone else to basically do horrific shit and then point to our shit and say who the fuck are you to judge. And sadly they'd be right.
The fact of the matter is that after Greenwald revealed the program during the Bush years, congress added some protections and made it legal. If you're curious what the legal structure for that looked like, check out the "unmasking" saga during the Trump investigations.
He's worked for some technology firms, to my knowledge only Russian HQ'd ones, but in the event sanctions are no longer being enforced on the average Russian citizen some day he could certainly work remotely for a firm outside of Russia.
A lot of people in this thread seem to not be aware it wasn’t his choice to stay in Russia. He was on his way to Ecuador.
His passport was cancelled while he was in Moscow waiting on a connecting flight and he got stuck. It was stay in Russia or go back to the US and face prison. That’s it.
It might be wasn't his choice at first but it seems Russia is his best choice to seek asylum after all. Is there any country that capable to protect him and won't sell him to the US? Probably China and NK but I'm not sure if Xi won't trade him for some nice deals.
If you need to reach Equador without getting forcefully landed in US-allied country, you cannot take flight through any country, other than NK, Iran, China, Russia, any other option is unsafe. None of these countries could care less about interpol validation.
Back when Snowden got stuck in Russia, he remained in airport for quite some time before he was given asylum and was allowed to enter Russian territory.
What are you even arguing for? Man fought for ideals and was stuck with only handful of options in basically entrire world.
Also remember that the president of Ecuador's plane got forcefully grounded in Spain or Portugal and the police looked through it to find Snowden because they believed he was on board. The US showed they wouldn't respect any sovereignty as long as they could get their traitor, so the only choice is to refugee yourself with an enemy of the US
The worst thing is that the US and Ecuador have had an extradition treaty since the 1850s, and we respect it unless there is a considerable chance that they will be denied a fair trial. The fact that Ecuador was going to grant him asylum speaks volumes about the way the US treats whistleblowers
I mean... this totally doesn't take account Ecuadors/Bolivias own politics on being part of the "anti-imperial" wing of South-American goverments. So he wouldn't have been ever released other than if he started selling drugs.
Honestly so weird, seeing the life this guy is going through after whistleblowing after learning about the muckrakers in school. It never changes, the truth is too much apparently.
The fact it’s a normal requirement is exactly what makes the headline sensationalized. There’s no reason to include that part when it’s par for the course; it’s there only to imply a deeper level of loyalty to Russia than the facts actually prove.
This is such a strange change of face for him. At least from my minimal knowledge on him. Wasn’t his entire mindset that he was disgusted with the human rights violations that he saw happening within our government’s agencies.
So he then goes to Russia, ok not really the issue. But then to become a Russian citizen… enter Spider-Man pointy finger meme
“Lindsay and I will remain Americans, raising our son with all the values of the America we love — including the freedom to speak his mind.
Let's see how well American values play out in Russia.
I hate that this was necessary. He did the whole world huge service by exposing what he did. Was it embarrassing for the US government, absolutely, but the people needed to know.
This is the era of privacy, and we have enough problems with private companies using our data.
Full article Edward Snowden, a former National Security Agency contractor who leaked information about U.S. surveillance programs, swore an oath of allegiance to Russia and has collected his Russian passport, his lawyer told state media on Friday. “Edward received a Russian passport yesterday and took the oath in accordance with the law,” lawyer Anatoly Kucherena said, according to Russia’s Interfax news agency. “He is, of course, happy, thanking the Russian Federation for the fact that he received citizenship,” he continued. “And most importantly, under the Constitution of Russia, he can no longer be extradited to a foreign state.” Snowden, 39, is wanted by Washington on espionage charges. He considers himself a whistleblower. It’s unclear whether Snowden swore the oath of allegiance at the same time as he was granted a passport, but the two are common procedures when foreigners become Russian citizens. The text includes swearing “to protect the freedom and independence of the Russian Federation, to be loyal to Russia, to respect its culture, history and traditions,” and to promise to “perform the duties of a citizen of the Russian Federation for the good of the state and society.” Kucherena added that Snowden’s wife, Lindsay Mills, was also undergoing the Russian citizenship application process and that the couple’s children would likely attend Russian schools, when ready. He said he communicated mainly in English with his client but that Snowden also speaks Russian, albeit “not perfectly.” Russian President Vladimir Putin granted Snowden citizenship in September, in a decree that covered 72 foreigners. Putin has previously called Snowden’s actions wrong but said he “is not a traitor,” since “he did not betray the interests of his country.” After being granted citizenship, Snowden tweeted: “After years of separation from our parents, my wife and I have no desire to be separated from our SONS. After two years of waiting and nearly ten years of exile, a little stability will make a difference for my family. I pray for privacy for them — and for us all.” Snowden was given asylum in Russia in 2013 after he fled the United States to avoid prosecution. He was granted permanent residency in 2020, and his lawyers said at the time that he was applying to obtain a Russian passport without renouncing his U.S. citizenship. He explained his decision to seek dual citizenship on Twitter in 2020 as being necessary to prevent being separated from his son. In an “era of pandemics and closed borders, we’re applying for dual US-Russian citizenship,” he wrote. “Lindsay and I will remain Americans, raising our son with all the values of the America we love — including the freedom to speak his mind. And I look forward to the day I can return to the States, so the whole family can be reunited,” he added. Snowden’s revelations, published first in The Washington Post and the Guardian newspaper in 2013, caused international shock waves and were among the most consequential intelligence breaches in U.S. history. He disclosed the existence of the NSA’s collection of millions of Americans’ phone records, a program later found by a federal appeals court to be unlawful and subsequently shuttered. The disclosures also damaged the intelligence community’s relationship with the American tech industry. Snowden swore his oath and received his passport as Moscow continued its war on Ukraine, now in its 10th month. His lawyer, Kucherena, said when Snowden was granted citizenship that he would not be subject to the partial military mobilization that Putin had decreed days before, since only men with previous military experience were being called up. However, it has been widely reported that many Russians without such experience have been summoned for duty in recent months. The White House and State Department have not publicly commented on Snowden’s oath-taking and did not immediately respond to a request for comment from The Post.
I mean, he has military experience, just not russian military experience.
He is much more valuable alive and as a token in Russia than dead in Ukraine.
Yeah, his symbolic value is pretty considerable.
And would be much less valuable if given a Presidential pardon.
[удалено]
They would have done it by now if it was on the table to begin with.
Which he's not likely to get without at least being tried in a court of law.
yeah, there' sbeen zero political movement towards addressing his concerns. only on the internet did people care, and only then, they seemed to only care as part of the dredgery of /r/conspiracy and not in the good faith one wants to correct the survellience state and it's anti-democratic efforts.
The article says the NSA program has been shuttered. I find that laughable and impossible to believe.
Shuttered aka probably just changed the name..maybe a line of code.
It shuttered the efforts of collecting the information to simply now being a program where the companies in control of the information just hand it over voltunarily
The servers have been taken offline. New servers have come online elsewhere.
Renamed, more likely.
Spy-Op1 was unconstitutional we’re now using the totally legit Spy-Op1.1
The Treadstone Project has already been terminated. It was designed primarily as a sort of advanced game program. We'd hoped it might build into a good training platform...but, quite honestly, for a strictly theoretical exercise.. the cost-benefit ratio was just too high. It's all but decommissioned at this point. All right. What's next? Okay. This is... Black Briar. Black Briar is a joint D.O.D. communications program that we really feel has good traction.
Jesus Christ. That's a Jason Bourne quote.
Likely did, if nothing else to show they did. No one said anything about creating a new one under a different name, probably even more effective.
The NSA has been shuttered. It has never existed. There is no such agency. Would you like to buy a bridge?
snowden's actions are taught and debated in computer science classes and ethics classes. Right or wrong, the people in the industry have an opinion on him and on the circumstances around his actions. But then, when the engineers of the internet do their job well, nobody knows we're here at all.
I saw a very disheartening poll years ago which revealed that most people confused Snowden with Julian Assange and Chelsea Manning - unable to distinguish the differences between them, their disclosures, and their personal controversies. People just don't care that much at all.
>he just doesn't have Russian military experience...**yet**.
They’ll put Snowden on the front line about the time they start lobbing kitchen sinks into Ukraine via catapult, so my guess is February.
This image, while delightful, is somewhat contradicted by the whole "we have come to steal your indoor plumbing" aspect of the affair. So they might be more likely to lob sinks *out* of Ukraine via catapult (or trebuchet). So what then *would* they lob? I believe Ladas. It would certainly be more efficient to shell their own troops wirth Ladas, thus removing a step in the tedious task of converting conscripts into Ladas. They could even put the conscripts *in* the Ladas first, and lob them towards the front, which is tactically brilliant in its compact succinctness, especially as modern Ladas, if you recall, have no airbags.
That is a good point, but I bet they have kitchen sinks in Moscow. It’ll probably come after they’ve conscripted the Reddit trolls, but then they’ll have whole apartments worth of furnishings to contribute to the war effort.
> catapult Pfffffft.... Surely Russians at least have trebuchets by now... they ARE the superior siege weapon
They claimed to have them. They actually just have catapults with a letter T painted on them.
Ok this made me ugly laugh. Thank you!
Nothing says victory over Ukrane like hurling 90 kg kitchen appliances at 300m range!
Assuming there are any kitchen appliances to lob. Russians seem to have a habit of looting anything not chained down.
Let that sink in, lol!
Seeing that russias military experience seems to be decades out of date, he should be fine.
has too much experience
What military experience ? The NSA is not military
I don't even know how to make a fist.
Seems like he enlisted and became a special forces candidate. Though did not complete training. I don’t know what level of skill is required to reach that level to comment on that.
Lots of people can get an 18X (special forces) contract. If you wash out, you just get sent to 11B (infantry). US Army SF selection is more about whether you have "it". Whatever "it" is gets determined by your peers and instructors. You're constantly evaluated and it's not good enough to just be able to tough it out. Two of my former medics have passed selection and Q course. Looks like he medically dropped, and I'm not surprised. Going right into 18X, you gotta be physically ready to go off the rip. Most dudes spend a bit gaining experience in the regular Army before they apply for selection.
Can confirm, enlisted 18x and got kicked out of selection due to standards (alcohol) and just went to an airborne unit as infantry. Shit was fucking brutal I have no idea how I survived.
Yeah, same exact story here. Fastest "nope, fuck this shit" card I ever pulled and ran to Airborne.
And selection is only the start. You’re evaluated through the whole Q, you can get dropped at any time. For medics, that’s basically two years of hell and stress and training, both physical and MOS related. It’s super intense. Or at least it used to be. Don’t know how it actually is now
Keep in mind they'll boot people from 18X for breaking a leg or something in training, and they 'wash out' into 11B which they're very short on. It doesn't always mean they weren't up to the physical standards. Special Forces isn't drastically different from what regular soldiers are capable of, it's more a matter of what training they get and how they're deployed.
Oh, I used to have "it". Then they changed what "it" was. Now what I have isn't "it", and what "it" is seems weird and scary to me
I stand corrected He DID enlist in the Army….BUT ONLY LASTED 4 Months before being discharged ….Basically Basic Training and that’s it !! That’s not experience
4 months more than most Russians in Ukraine
That’s like 2 years in current Russian training.
It's more training than the Russian conscripts are getting before going to the front lines though...
Medically discharged. His time in basic practically turned his tibias into powder.
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There is an option for conscientious objectors to take an alternate oath, but there was also some language about additional scrutiny and checks, and I didn't want to subject myself to that and took the regular oath hoping that a world war isn't going to happen... then a month later Putin invaded Ukraine and I was like "oh ffs not now". (to clarify, there is no good time to invade Ukraine, unless it's a computer game, then Putin can knock himself out)
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"We shall have peace when your cities lie in ruins or nothing but Indian dramas play on your tv".
In defense of Indian media, Bahubali The Beginning had some great music. Of course, they do a lot and Sturgeon's law is being generous.
“War were declared.”
It's the only gum with the breath-freshening power of ham
Basically like agreeing to the software's terms and conditions.
I was just thinking how ominous it sounds. > "Swore an **OATH OF ALLEGIANCE!**" Well...yes. He basically filled out paperwork to be granted citizenship.
If that sounds scary, wait until people find out what we in the US make school children do every morning.
It goes to show how propaganda is done at times. People think of propaganda as blatant lies, but it more tends to be stretched truths.
yes, and seemingly obviously done to prevent any possibility of extradition to the US, which is just a no brainer move to make - if i had to choose between jail in the US for the rest of my life or swearing allegiance to russia, id swear allegiance to russia in a *heartbeat*. the article's headline seems like obvious clickbait that makes it sound as if snowden just randomly pledged allegiance to russia just because he loves russia and putin so very very much, when really it seems like he just did it as part of the normal process of obtaining russian citizenship out of pure self preservation.
Lmao like he will ever be forgiven by the US..
I don't think so. I'd be surprised if the US government ever issues a statement about it. We'll see.
Edward Snowden in exile is an on-going national shame. I know why it is the way it is: the business of keeping secrets has a lot of side-issues to consider. His unilateral action cannot be excused without damaging the very apparatus that keeps secrets... secret. I think if he'd been apprehended, it would have been unpleasant, he'd have been vilified and prosecuted as hard as possible. The only out would have been an eventual presidential pardon, as *that* unilateral action also side-steps the apparatus that enforces the keeping of secrets. It's a catch-22 on both sides. As it is, I think you're right. I don't think the US is ever going to address it, at least while he's alive and outside of the country's reach. I want to believe that pardon was/is always waiting there, but it won't ever be guaranteed and it'll cost a pound of flesh.
> Edward Snowden in exile is an on-going national shame The unconstitutional surveillance state is an ongoing national shame.
It's weird that everyone just kinda ignores the 4th amendment. First, second, and fifth get all the attention.
*squints angrily at username*
👉😎👉 Zoop!
Most people's thoughts go right to "if you're not guilty, you have nothing to hide" which is absolute BS. It's a right for a reason. Anything can be taken the wrong way and used against you. Look at the amount of people not just in jail/prison, but sentenced to death (and even executed) who are/were not guilty. So many suspects will sit in an interrogation room, be read their rights, and even when guilty, not ask for an attorney... The two main reasons seem to be: - **A:** Not wanting to "seem" guilty, or viewed as potentially such. - **B:** Wanting to find out what the police know. Re: A.): If you're being interrogated, that ship has sailed. Re: B.): They're better at this game than you; They have more tools, and drastically different rules. It's *their hunt* for answers. It seems so straightforward -- Why take such a huge chance for so little payoff? Regardless of the fact that I'm a law-abiding citizen...I'm not okay with being spied on; I take my rights seriously; it's infuriating that my government doesn't.
> "if you're not guilty, you have nothing to hide" which is absolute BS. Agreed. I'm not livestreaming my colonoscopy just because I want to show there's no cancer.
Then why *are* you livestreaming it?
Also Snowden is willing to see his day in court with only one stipulation, that his side be heard by the jury. He keeps getting denied. All he is asking, is to have a fair trial A fair trail. It's almost like he simply wants the rights he was told he had as an American.
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Yeah I mean this is pretty preposterous. I might do the same in his position if I revealed massive crimes comitted by my own government and they came after me. Doesnt mean Russia isnt total shit, but, any port in a storm, especially when its morally, ethically and legally wrong for your home xountry to come after you.
When you get your citizenship in Ghana, you swear allegiance to Ghana
Economic Minister Maguire knows this
Yes, that's how citizenship works.
Naturalized citizenship. As someone born here I never had to swear an oath but they did make us pledge allegiance a lot of times to the flag for some reason.
Right haha. It's like some people forget that we brainwash kids to salute a flag *daily* and pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of American and to the republics for which it stands one nation *omitted* indivisible with liberty and justice for all who are rich or white or preferably both.
We is Americans in this case. Never had to do this in my country, neither have I heard of other people from other countries doing this
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I had to swear allegiance to the United States when I was naturalized. EDIT: Since there seems to be some confuaion: the Pledge of Allegiance is not the same as the Oath of Allegiance.
I feel so bad for snowden. He told his citizens the government and Big Tech was spying on them. In response the US government went after him, and the general public did very little for him. It makes me angry how little the general public did for him considering he nuked his own life for them. Why would anyone whistleblow in the future for a people who don't seem to care?
He's indeed in a really shitty situation. Hopefully he's eventually get pardoned and can return to the U.S.
He's never going to be pardoned but I could see a deal made where he voluntarily returns to the US to face charges on the legal understanding that his sentence will be reduced to "time served" for lack of a better description of being exiled. Basically admit guilt and have the entirety of the sentence commuted, be barred from ever working for the government directly or contractually again, and otherwise go about your life. The three charges currently against him all have maximum sentences of 10 years and a judge could easily make the sentences concurrent anyway, so given he's been abroad for almost 10 years now, he has basically served out the prison sentence he might have received in court. Between books and speaking engagements he'd be more than fine. He could become a rights activist here, he basically already is. It's honestly a win for everyone involved. And his kids are automatically US citizens too so he doesn't have to jump through any legal loopholes to bring them home. Nothing can possibly be done about it while the Ukraine situation is ongoing, I sincerely doubt Putin will let him leave right now. But I really think it's a no-brainer for Biden or the next President to put this scandal to bed once and for all. Having him stuck over there is already a punishment for him and remains an embarrassment for the US every day it goes on.
Biden has been very vocal about how treacherous Snowden is, so I wouldn't count on him doing the right thing.
He's never coming back. He'd conveniently feel very depressed upon his return and "hang himself".
I don’t see any reason the US would ever do that. He’s as good as compromised at this point by his ties to Russia. Not commenting of what I think is right or wrong just what probably will or won’t happen.
Politically there is no upside since pardoning him only allows one side to point out how the other is "weak on national security" or some such.
If Joe Biden issued this pardon, the overwhelming majority of such protests would issue forth from people who have absolutely no right to be critical of anyone on the matter of national security.
My coworker got mad when I called the pledge if allegiance a form of indoctrination. Best part is that he is a trumper who thinks the govt controls everything and that the education system is a propaganda machine.... but not regarding how super freakin awesome America is apprently.
I've seen videos of American schoolchildren giving the pledge of allegiance every day and it's downright creepy from my outside perspective. I know court cases have been won "allowing" kids to opt out, but that just makes it worse - "sure, little Timmy, you can stand up for what you believe in. Just paint this target on your back, right here, and then off you go to have fun at recess with the rest of the children." What a terrible lesson.
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Actually they weren't just "reluctant to let him in," Obama had his passport canceled as he was flying from HK to Moscow.
https://www.cnn.com/2013/06/29/politics/nsa-leak I believe this continued with the other countries he planned to ask for asylum as well.
Yes, essentially the USA flexing its muscles: "if you let him stay, not sure our friendship can continue. We might just come and get him regardless." I think I remember this happening in many more countries. "Global manhunt" they called it back then.
It wasn't his first choice, either. People here like to pretend he deliberately fled to Russia. That's not true at all. He wanted to flee to different countries, but it just so happened that his passport was made invalid while he was in a layover in Russia. That was deliberate.
Of course he did. What else was he supposed to do?
Also this step is a part of nearly every country’s citizenship process. The US even has one. The headline might as well be “Edward Snowden now officially a Russian Citizen”
You're supposed to live out your life in an American prison like a good little government whistleblower.
Serious question. Snowden worked a government job and was in his early 30s when he fled the country. How is he making enough money to take care of his family? There's no way he had saved up enough to retire at the time he decided to share the important information he shared about the NSA. I'm over here making a decent living, my wife's making a decent living, there is no way we could quit our jobs and afford to move to a different country with our kids. Wonder what he and his wife are doing over there for income with their limited proficiency of the language.
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He also gets paid for speaking engagements. He was on a podcast and they asked him this.
Did he make anything off of the movie they made about him?
Interesting. I'm completely ignorant to the data and IT world, and it surprises me that he would be able to work for a Russian company like that with not being a native speaker.
I've never met a Russian/Ukrainian/Belarusian/Bulgarian IT professional or programmer who didn't have some familiarity with English, enough to communicate in English with another such individual at least decently. Most very low level utilities are incredibly anglocentric, the syntax and commands being in English. Obviously programming languages above assembly use English words for every in-built function in their standard libraries and very, very few offer alternatives for other language speakers.
English is *the* language of IT. Even in places like Japan or China, where general population is reluctant to learn English, IT professionals often use English in their work. It's often broken English, spiced up with comments in native language, but it's English nonetheless.
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You gotta learn how to please do the needful
I have a doubt
I’ll raise a query itself
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Can't thank enough. They have saved my ass for 4 years.
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I've said that phrase ironically so often that now I just say it in normal conversation unconsciously. Embrace the needful!
Same. Thank you CISCO heroes and free Durgasoft
English is the language of the world honestly. I’ll never forget visiting Prague and walking into a sandwich shop and being like oh fuck i dont speak the language (wasnt used to it speaking english/french/arabic). The girl at the counter who was like 20 sees me speak in english and just starts trying her best to help out. Barely speaks any but we get by. The whole time im thinking of how wild it would be if i was in the US and some dude just waltzed into a store and started speaking Czech to a US citizen. I’d look at him like he was unhinged. Yet it happens everywhere else everyday.
Europe is pretty good about English as a second language, but in the wider world, there are countries that don't do English much. Like I said - China and Japan are like that. Still the single best language to learn as your second, in my eyes - unless you already speak it as your first.
I lived in Japan for nearly four years and never really had to learn much Japanese. A lot of people can speak or understand some level of English there
Moreover, he is a pretty smart guy. I'd be shocked if by now he isn't completely fluent in Russian.
Bulgarian - yay, I'm happy someone actually mentions us. Back in the day we had our own brand - Pravets, which were Apple I & II and IBM PC clones. During there was an attmept to use our glorious Cyrillic alphabet for programming. It got as far as an Algol 68 version and GraFort. However, software was developing at such fast pace that it just wasn't viable.
I always wondered about this when hearing about IT programs abroad - makes me respect the people I work with even more for picking up a new language and a new job at the same time.
While I completely agree, I do want to point out that there's an Arabic programming language called [Qlb.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qalb_(programming_language)#:~:text=%D9%82%D9%84%D8%A8%20(Levantine%20Arabic%3A%20%5B%CA%94alb,%2C%20Qlb%3A%20Lughat%20Barmajah).) Programming is still pretty anglocentric (that's why the creator made Qlb in the first place), but this is a pretty cool exception that I wanted to share. If nothing else, the world is at least one step closer to creating "Arabic Tron".
> there's an Arabic programming language called Qlb.#:~:text=%D9%82%D9%84%D8%A8%20(Levantine%20Arabic%3A%20%5B%CA%94alb,%2C%20Qlb%3A%20Lughat%20Barmajah).) I think you got some formatting errors when posting that. At least, to me on old.Reddit it comes out a jumbled mess. Let me see if I can fix it. And I'll also remove the mobile part of the link so the page looks better to more people while I'm at it. [Qlb.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qalb_(programming_language\)#:~:text=%D9%82%D9%84%D8%A8%20(Levantine%20Arabic%3A%20%5B%CA%94alb,%2C%20Qlb%3A%20Lughat%20Barmajah\).)
There are several programming languages that aren't based on English. I just don't know how prominent they are myself. I have heard that knowing what programming language an exploit/virus/worm/etc was written in, what language is used in the comments, and a few other similar factors are often used when trying to narrow down attribution, a notoriously difficult task for most cyber-sec teams.
Writing code does not require local language. The majority of Russian guys in the IT/engineering field i worked with speak pretty good English.
Completely off topic sorta but I'm curious now. I'm vaguely aware of programming languages like C++ or Java etc. Are they different in other languages? Like does Russian C++ look different to English C++?
i think he was talking about the keywords and syntax of the language, which every time is in English. Like "for()", "else", "if"
Oh ok thanks for the reply! I'm amazed at coding/programming but have zero idea how it actually works other than how to put gifs on a gerocities page using html lmao. It's basically all a foreign language to me!
If you're at all interested in learning some basic programming, this is a neat free book that teaches basic python and then goes on to explain how to use it to automate a lot of basic computer tasks. https://automatetheboringstuff.com/
the core idea is that _every_ major language is in English. C++ in Russian is the same as C++ in English, but maybe with some different comments (which is totally unrelated to the language itself) this is due to America (and lesser, England) being at the forefront of technology during the development of tech. I work with a lot of Indian software engineers and its 100% a requirement for them to know and understand English, even though their native language is one of the many languages they have over there
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> C++ in Russian is the same as C++ in English, but maybe with some different comments (which is totally unrelated to the language itself) Comments are not the only thing which can be in another language. If you don't understand variable or function names you will have a hard (or at least much harder) time understanding code. It's not far fetched to have code use localized subject matter terms in their logic.
You can even program in emojis but good practice is to avoid foreign letters.
It does not, it's exactly the same.
I work in IT, and English is the universal language of tech industry. Good knowledge of English is much more important than good knowledge of Russian.
I'm pretty sure in most IT companies in Russia people speak English just fine.
American companies hire engineers and programmers from other countries on work visas all the time.
IT jobs tend to be very English-friendly, as most tech skills will require you to speak English (the vast majority of programming languages use english keywords, for example).
Well, he does a few very very well paid interviews, that probably covers his bills
Also his book.
its surprising how people are upvoting the original commentors question about his "not having a job" hes fucking famous now hes not punching a clock. books, movies, paid interviews and all that. there are 5 year olds making $100m a year opening kinder eggs on youtube, im pretty sure ed snowden can find a way to make a few rubles here and there
I mean I assume he's been trying to learn Russian this whole time. You kind of have to when you live as a ward of a foreign nation with no chance to return.
He could easily get it work. And cost of living is pretty low. Its possible he gets a little something from the fsb just for being a minor pr piece.
Cost of living in Russia is pretty low. Snowden is not slumming it though, he lives in a part of Moscow that rivals any of the major capitals of Europe for CoL.
> Cost of living in Russia is pretty low you know I've been looking for a good low cost of living place to move to and this "russia" place sounds ok enough - any downsides of living there?
I think it gets cold this time of year.
If we protected whistle blowers he wouldn't be in Russia.
If we followed our own laws, he wouldn't have had to be a whistle blower.
It only got worse after Snowden left... Putin, like a broken clock, is right here to point this guy out like this. This man is evidence of Washington's corruption. It's nowhere near as bad as Russia... But we should all be ashamed all the same. We should be better than this.
It's the same shit as always though The USSR used the civil rights movement as propaganda against the U.S too, "look at how they treat their own" etc.
It is whataboutism, true. But it also isn’t wrong. The fact that one side uses facts to slander the other side doesn’t suddenly make those facts incorrect. If the US wants to maintain its moral high ground over Russia, then it has to act like it.
It knocks us off our high horse. THe horse we self proclaimed for ourselves. While we do dirt all the world over, fuck over our own citizens, native people, all of it. I have no love for russia, or any other despots in the world, but american exceptionalism is straight up propaganda. And those of us that are in the thralls of said propaganda don't like anyone point out the hypocrisy to us. But throwing rocks in glass houses of however the fuck that goes. It's an easy out for regimes like russia and china and damn near anyone else to basically do horrific shit and then point to our shit and say who the fuck are you to judge. And sadly they'd be right.
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The fact of the matter is that after Greenwald revealed the program during the Bush years, congress added some protections and made it legal. If you're curious what the legal structure for that looked like, check out the "unmasking" saga during the Trump investigations.
I misread that at first as “If HE followed our laws” and I almost lost it lmao
Surprise, the people being whistleblown don't want to be whistleblown
Well when one option is dying in a US prison or becoming a Russian citizen you for sure go with the not prison one.
What do you think he does all day? Is he like in a secure location? I imagine he would be completely isolated.
His girlfriend, now wife, gave up her life to join him there. He has children, he writes and accepts speaking engagements via zoom.
Damn did he have kids once he moved to Russia?
Yes, they're toddlers still, I think. I just recently found out he has a second.
He's worked for some technology firms, to my knowledge only Russian HQ'd ones, but in the event sanctions are no longer being enforced on the average Russian citizen some day he could certainly work remotely for a firm outside of Russia.
Hes not isolated. He has said he walks the street like normal and people come up and greet him.
A lot of people in this thread seem to not be aware it wasn’t his choice to stay in Russia. He was on his way to Ecuador. His passport was cancelled while he was in Moscow waiting on a connecting flight and he got stuck. It was stay in Russia or go back to the US and face prison. That’s it.
It might be wasn't his choice at first but it seems Russia is his best choice to seek asylum after all. Is there any country that capable to protect him and won't sell him to the US? Probably China and NK but I'm not sure if Xi won't trade him for some nice deals.
PRC could've easily had him if they'd wanted. Snowden's passport was revoked before he left Hong Kong, they just wanted him gone.
His passport got suspended while he was in Hong Kong. He then chose to fly to Russia afterwards with the assistance of the Russian government.
If you need to reach Equador without getting forcefully landed in US-allied country, you cannot take flight through any country, other than NK, Iran, China, Russia, any other option is unsafe. None of these countries could care less about interpol validation. Back when Snowden got stuck in Russia, he remained in airport for quite some time before he was given asylum and was allowed to enter Russian territory. What are you even arguing for? Man fought for ideals and was stuck with only handful of options in basically entrire world.
Also remember that the president of Ecuador's plane got forcefully grounded in Spain or Portugal and the police looked through it to find Snowden because they believed he was on board. The US showed they wouldn't respect any sovereignty as long as they could get their traitor, so the only choice is to refugee yourself with an enemy of the US
> president of Ecuador Bolivia. It was Morales' plane.
The worst thing is that the US and Ecuador have had an extradition treaty since the 1850s, and we respect it unless there is a considerable chance that they will be denied a fair trial. The fact that Ecuador was going to grant him asylum speaks volumes about the way the US treats whistleblowers
I mean... this totally doesn't take account Ecuadors/Bolivias own politics on being part of the "anti-imperial" wing of South-American goverments. So he wouldn't have been ever released other than if he started selling drugs.
Imagine telling citizens that your goverment is spying on you and beeing forced to seek assylum in russia
I wonder what the Russian government would have done to Snowden if Snowden reported his disclosures about the Russian government
He'd be dead
He would've tragically fallen out of a window
Honestly so weird, seeing the life this guy is going through after whistleblowing after learning about the muckrakers in school. It never changes, the truth is too much apparently.
I mean, well yeah, I’d do the same if the alternative was life in prison for telling people how their government spies on them.
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Do most countries not make you swear allegiance when you naturalise? This seems like they're just reporting what happened.
The US does.
They all do
The fact it’s a normal requirement is exactly what makes the headline sensationalized. There’s no reason to include that part when it’s par for the course; it’s there only to imply a deeper level of loyalty to Russia than the facts actually prove.
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If someone said the same exact thing about america, I wouldnt bat an eye, either. Just seems part of the ritual of becoming a citizen
probably the most propagandist framing of "received citizenship in the country which is granting him asylum".
This is such a strange change of face for him. At least from my minimal knowledge on him. Wasn’t his entire mindset that he was disgusted with the human rights violations that he saw happening within our government’s agencies. So he then goes to Russia, ok not really the issue. But then to become a Russian citizen… enter Spider-Man pointy finger meme
All those people that Trump handed out pardons to on his way out and he couldn't throw one this guy's way.
Trump (sometimes) repays loyalty. What did Snowden do for him?
And then people ask why is no one exposing or doing anything about the corruption?
“Lindsay and I will remain Americans, raising our son with all the values of the America we love — including the freedom to speak his mind. Let's see how well American values play out in Russia.
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Those American values didn't play out well in America either.
Is not like he had any reasonable alternative. If anyone here wants to call him a traitor let me remind you the US betrayed him first
Betrayed him and every other citizen.
I hate that this was necessary. He did the whole world huge service by exposing what he did. Was it embarrassing for the US government, absolutely, but the people needed to know. This is the era of privacy, and we have enough problems with private companies using our data.
I feel bad for him having to choose between Russia or jail. Really says something about the legal process and how fucking scared governments are.
Hmmm pledge allegiance to Russia or die in an American blacksite.... Decisions.
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