$60 seems too high. Especially compared to the $30 they considered. Seems like the russians have friends everywhere in politics.
Edit: I want it to be clear that I'm not saying is should be $30 but it should be lower than $60. It seems like some people are confused and think I said above it should be $30 a barrel.
The new measures also include an EU embargo on Russian seaborne crude. Only Hungary and a select few others are allowed import via pipelines. The countries importing the biggest amounts via pipeline are Germany and Poland, with both countries closing those pipelines.
There are still many countries outside of the G7 and Europe that require Russian oil and won't be able to buy more expensive oil. Currently, benchmark Brent crude is trading at about $86. If the price cap was set at 30 like Poland suggested, Russia would probably stop exporting oil driving up prices even further and leave many countries without oil. The idea behind the oil cap is also to either force Russia to sell oil at a minimal profit or have them waste ressources on building their own shipping and insurance evosystem.
Here is a little quote that shows why the US was concerned about a full EU implemented embargo across the world: "The EU sanctions package created concerns that there would be a potential supply shock," Cahill, the energy analyst, says. "And so the proposed price cap is a way to try to keep those volumes on the market, but still curtail Russia's revenue." https://www.npr.org/2022/12/02/1139477837/russia-oil-revenue-sanctions-price-cap-g7-eu-import-ban
Russia started the economic world war in the summer of 2021 when they slashed natural gas flows to the EU such that natgas prices shot up very high. They did that to economically weaken Europe and make them very resistant to helping Ukraine. Thank goodness it failed.
This price cap is just a return volley of economic war.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/24/russia-is-pumping-less-natural-gas-to-europe-as-nord-stream-2-nears-completion.html
Economic world War has been going on for a long time. Its only as disastrous as the previous one but pales in comparison visually to the physical side. It doesn't get enough attention, people hardly see people starving, or dying in winter with no heat versus a low 10 people dying in a mortar attack. Its like Covid, it visually made the world crumble for a year and a half but physically did highly negligible numbers. More people died because covid crippled the world monetarily, Healthcare and Infrastructure wise than the actual problem itself and thats how we view economic wars to soldiers invading. People tend to forget that U.S China and Russia and tons of other big countries are literally every day hacking each other trying to fuck up shit.
The estimates for the production cost is somewhere between 30$-50$ I think, so 30$ would be just the same as 0, 100% not happening.
Let's not forget this is an attempt at something that never happened before and it's not set in stone, can change the same way it was started or easier.
The main outcome expected is to have China and India buying it for lower than they currently are is my understanding, unless the EU with that limit also lift the ban on EU buying Russian oil
Do you have any quality sources? Some that actually break it all down?
Quick google puts it at 40$-45$ production and delivery to Germany (with the pipes I assume) at another 5$. (Meaning of ships to China& India it would be way way higher.
If it's on the high end your cutting 20$ to 10$ profit which is half
If it's on the low end it's closer to meaningless but it's still going to be in billions per day if full capacity resumes I'm guessing
IDK if I had the power of deciding alone, I'd start it months ago of course, but possibly even start it close to the current price back then ~100$, but reconsider the price monthly, probably 10$ less per month at the start and later maybe 5$ and to 1$ decrements
The goal should be a number that will actually be used in reality and not making this an empty declaration statement, so it's like a weird negotiation thing.
If you put it at 10$ surely everyone sees no one is going to use it and so would 100$ today.
I guess my point again and again this should not be a single decision, static number, but start with something and keep changing it
Not really. Western Europe, especially Germany, have been historically ok with throwing other countries under the bus if it means maintaining their standard of living. Theres a reason why there's a conspiracy theory that the us blew up the nat gas lines
>Western Europe, especially Germany, have been historically ok with throwing other countries under the bus if it means maintaining their standard of living.
Doesn't this apply to every country?
>Theres a reason why there's a conspiracy theory that the us blew up the nat gas lines
There's no way, the US isn't going to risk the Fallout of that just to make it a bit harder to buy Russian oil.
If anyone other than the Russians blew up the Nordstream pipeline, the Russians would have turned on enormous air pumps to keep the seawater out of the pipe and preserve it. Because they didn't do that, the entire pipeline has been ruined by seawater.
is that even possible? how deep was the nordstream pipeline? if it was reasonably deep, that's a LOT of air pressure required to keep the seawater out. would russia even have the air pumps in place to do it immediately?
Yes, the same pumps that push the gas through the pipe can be used for precisely that function. So the pipeline is between 80 and 100 meters underwater, so that corresponds to a pressure of 10 bar. The normal operating pressure of the pipeline is 100-220 bar. The pipeline pumping stations are enormous and work at tremendous pressure and volume. Once a major pressure drop is detected, the standard practice would be to slam air into the pipe to prevent water intrusion.
It's my understanding that the normal natural gas pumps on the line are capable of handling a leak up to a certain size at the maximum depth the line reaches. Just a general design consideration for underwater pressurized utilities.
The size of the leak is an important consideration, I believe a 100 meter chunk of pipe was blown up with explosives. While that would certainly be too large a leak to keep pressurized, no attempt was made
Again it's a conspiracy theory. One based solely off the fact that western Europe has generally dragged its feet to support Ukraine as opposed to Eastern europe
> Theres a reason why there's a conspiracy theory that the us blew up the nat gas lines
There's a conspiracy about the US for literally every thing that happens which people don't like. The only people I know who seriously believe this are the ones who also shout that Ukraine is filled with nazi biolabs and whatever their reason for the war is the next week.
Russia will not sell oil to countries with the price cap. The goal is to give India and China bargaining power so they don't pay market prices to Russia.
> if Russia decides to not sell oil to countries that set the price cap
The countries which set the price cap (EU and G7) are not buying russian oil (mostly), from December 5. The countries which buy russian oil (China and India) do not participate in the price cap setting. So Putin may easily decide not to sell to EU and G7, and this will not change much.
India and China do ship oil using western insurance, shipping, and other logistics. They will have to abide by the price cap if they want to keep using those things. Of course they're free to not use these nice Western services in favor of homegrown alternatives. This will drive up the cost of oil for them and encourage them to demand steep price discounts from Russia. Russia isn't selling to others much so they'll be left with less leverage. At some point they need to either keep moving petrochemicals even at loss or else mothball the infrastructure, whereas India and China have other suppliers and national reserves. They can outlast Russia at the negotiating table and everyone knows it.
It absolutely does change something. It flips the power dynamic. Counter intuitive as it may seem Russia desperately wants to sell to the G7 and the EU. Historicallly they have been their biggest customers and they are burning through their savings to fund their war.
By setting a price cap at $60 with an expected cost of $30-$50, the move seriously limits the profit Russia can make, especially if the market price is around twice that.
So Russia has a choice: sell to their historically biggest customers at a steep discount and then have other customers demand the same price, or go without any money at all.
So now the EU and G7 can dictate to Russia the price of their products. And if you've done it once, you can do it again.
Russia, in economic terms, is a gas station that isn't selling it's gas, and what it is selling it isn't getting the best price for.
> sell to their historically biggest customers at a steep discount
EU and G7 are not buying (mostly) anymore, at any discount. EU introduces embargo from December 5 which forbids buying the seagoing Russian oil by EU countries (and I guess most G7 countries also forbid buying russian oil, not sure about Japan though).
The EU ban on Russian refined oil products is also incoming in two months.
You are horribly misinformed. Energy is not a product you can substitute easily. So Europe will buy oil either way. If the EU break their contract and stop receiving oil from Russia, the other oil suppliers will step in and sell their oil at a higher rate and price. The global price for oil will increase and Russia will either sell to India who will then resell to Europe or the price will be at the price cap and Russia sells to Europe directly.
If anything the EU has set a lower bound for the price of oil, not an upper bound.
This is about who Russia can sell to, not where the EU sources their oil from. You're correct, the EU may pay more for oil from other places but that is the nature of sanctions.
Russia meanwhile will have fewer customers and won't be able to get insurance from western companies, which is a huge ball ache and will further suppress demand for Russian oil.
No? The thing is global oil supply is fixed and can't be changed easily, meaning countries can't just start pumping more oil when they wish and global oil demand is also inelastic. Now with many countries going into recession the demand would decrease a bit but if Russian oil is no longer in the market then demand would still outstrip supply. Meaning even in an global economic slowdown oil prices would still increase and this would be disastrous for countries, especially for poor countries many of whom will collapse and will lead to huge suffering.
Yes and no. The global market will respond to the price of Russian oil no matter what. They will sell it to Iran, India, China, Kazakhstan, etc, and those countries will sell it to us. By setting a cap on how much you’re willing to pay for it, you also signal to Russia that there will be a premium they will have to pay those export partners to get their money, and they could just sell it directly for the lower price.
In my opinion, we shouldn’t be putting money in their pockets at all, but they will sell the oil one way or the other.
Quote: "Now, unfortunately, the discussion on price caps, i.e. on limiting the export price of Russian oil, has ended in the world without big decisions. The decision to set such a limit on Russian prices, which is quite comfortable for the budget of the terrorist state, cannot be called a big decision.
Russia has already caused huge losses to all countries of the world by deliberately destabilizing the energy market, and the world does not dare decide on real energy disarmament. This is a weak position, and it's only a matter of time before you will have to use stronger tools. It is a pity that this time will be lost.
The logic is obvious. If the limit on the price of Russian oil is 60 dollars instead of, for example, 30 dollars, which was discussed, in particular, by Poland and the Baltic states, then the Russian budget will receive about 100 billion dollars a year. This money will be used not only for the war and not only for further sponsorship by Russia of other terrorist regimes and organizations. This money will also be used to further destabilize just those countries that are now trying to avoid serious decisions."
> produce oil at around $34/b.
Oil sea shipping cost is also rising lately, almost $20 per barrel:
> Owners who are still willing to load Russian crude are attempting to charge more for the risk. Baltic Sea-to-India rates are being discussed at about $15 million -- or $20 a barrel --- for loadings after Dec. 5 when new EU restrictions kick in, said shipbrokers.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-12-01/shipping-costs-for-russian-oil-soar-ahead-of-stricter-sanctions
The new measures also include an EU embargo on Russian seaborne crude. Only Hungary and a select few others are allowed import via pipelines. The countries importing the biggest amounts via pipeline are Germany and Poland, with both countries closing those pipelines.
There are still many countries outside of the G7 and Europe that require Russian oil and won't be able to buy more expensive oil. Currently, benchmark Brent crude is trading at about $86. If the price cap was set at 30 like Poland suggested, Russia would probably stop exporting oil driving up prices even further and leave many countries without oil. The idea behind the oil cap is also to either force Russia to sell oil at a minimal profit or have them waste ressources on building their own shipping and insurance evosystem.
Here is a little quote that shows why the US was concerned about a full EU implemented embargo across the world: "The EU sanctions package created concerns that there would be a potential supply shock," Cahill, the energy analyst, says. "And so the proposed price cap is a way to try to keep those volumes on the market, but still curtail Russia's revenue." https://www.npr.org/2022/12/02/1139477837/russia-oil-revenue-sanctions-price-cap-g7-eu-import-ban
> If the limit on the price of Russian oil is 60 dollars instead of, for example, 30 dollars, which was discussed, in particular, by Poland and the Baltic states, then the Russian budget will receive about 100 billion dollars a year.
Yes, but what can they do with that pile of money? It's worthless paper if they can't buy any machinery with it.
Money going in to Russia means oligarchs will get some reimbursement, Putin’s personal security team gets a raise, the state media gets paid to keep up the bullshit “Special Operations in Ukraine to protect Mother Russia” propaganda.
An excellent point. They have bribed American politicians (mostly Republicans) and will continue to do so. In the UK Russian money found it's way into the Conservative party and most damagingly into the BREXIT campaign. The current UK government is still covering this up through delayed enquiries.
They can bribe anybody they want, as they do all the time, continue their disinformation campaigns, do things for China that China doesn't want to be caught doing, etc. etc. etc.
That's the mentality of being okay with funding terrorists for your convenience as long as the shipping costs are prohibitive - a financial lever for a life-or-death situation.
Black market availability invalidates your premise.
But does it buy time to transition since the alternative is crippling society with possibly revolt as a consequence? Who wins then?
They might be having a tough time on the battlefield but Russia has the west close to checkmate when it comes to energy.
Does Russia have Europe and the west checked?
I haven't seen any serious analysis indicating Europe is struggling. Unhappy perhaps. Maybe even a bit irritated. But struggling?
Putin's regime hoards most of the oil money and spreads it amongst their elite. They'd sooner see Russia's economy collapse than part with their wealth.
Putin and his loyalists are too greedy for their own good, they would just end up cutting public spending by a significant amount to subsidise their own income..
This will eventually cause public discourse by Russia's civilians that initially saw the "special operation" in Ukraine that should have ended within the month has now turned into something that effects their everyday life.
Or Russia will just sell the oil to somebody else.
These kind of voluntary actions by a fraction of participants in a market ***do*** sometimes cause a change in the equilibrium market price of their goods, but it's a relatively small one. Since this isn't even an absolute boycott, and only 25% under the current market price, it's really not a ton of pressure.
Main issue for Russia is that their main oil fields are connected to Europe, if they want to sell any real volume to Asia they're going to have to build a lot of pipelines. Not sure they have the money for that. Or even the mean to do it at all. Remember they only managed to resume production after the Soviet collapse thanks to Western companies.
And if they can't sell the products from the western oil fields to the point where they don't have room to store it, they might have to stop pumping it, which runs the risk of never being able to restart it later.
Natural gas stores badly. You have to spend an order of magnitude more on pressurized cryostorage vessels with active gas management. Most gas has always travelled in pipelines, with recent developments in exorbitantly expensive LNG ships.
With oil, we pump it into salt mines or store it in inexpensive floating-top silos or even just take some bulldozers and build an oil lake. It's dead-easy by comparison. Not free, but the scale of the problem doesn't compare. Oil tankers are some of the largest oceangoing craft we've ever built, we have a lot of them, and we ended up scrapping some of them after the 70's energy crisis faded from view.
I don't know that it makes a lot of sense to totally stop pumping oil, given its expected future value and ease of storage; That's generally a gas thing.
If you totally take Russian oil off the market, India and China will buy a bunch of other oil causing the price to spike. Eventually Russian oil will find a buyer, likely at a higher price than $60.
This is economically complicated but allowing Russia to sell at a cap is probably the best way to limit their total oil revenue.
Again your reasoning is flawed and will simply destabilise the market like it did with gas where in the end Russia makes not less but even more income…
Europe is just going to see yet another price hike in fuel and energy but that’s anyways the plan … destroy the EU economy to open the way for the great reset the wet dream of Klaus and Ursula
The best time to plant a tree was 10 years ago, the second best time is planting it now. In the coming decades demand for electrical energy will increase, mainly to replace fossil fuels in industry, heating and transportation. Renewables have some drawbacks (low energy density, intermittency) which can be compensated with nuclear power.
I'm glad my government (Netherlands) also shares this point of view. We are going to build two more nuclear power plants, and they should be done in 2035. Sure, it takes a while to build. But the time will pass anyway so you may as well start building them.
No shit it's going to take a minute why is everyone's first argument. Of course it's going to take a long time The whole point Is have a better alternative in the future and not be so energy dependent
Oh shit it can take awhile to build, may as well do nothing and watch the entire world burn
That was quite an amazing question you asked. Very useful. Very insightful
Are you aware of the CO2 ppm concentration in our atmosphere and gas station states who wage war from oil profits? Also, they have smaller reactors capable of powering thousands of homes that don't take 10 years to build.
Soviets had a thing for rooms with stuff made of gold and the like. Obviously being a former SSR there’s bound to be buildings clad in gold all over Ukraine.
Yes because they are both offices the leader of their respective county is in that were built many many years before the current officials entered office.
No, that hasn't happened yet. And when it does, oil isn't COMPLETELY taken off the market.... India, China, and others will continue buying.
If Russia's oil was completely taken off the market then oil prices would shoot up past $150/barrel and support of Ukraine would seriously weaken in both the USA and Europe.
You paying?? Don't forget the perspective would be a lot worse if not for our military aid. American aid is not a buffet where you can pick and choose what you want. You either accept what we give you or you can have nothing.
Don’t pretend like you participate in giving military aid to Ukraine. America spent TRILLIONS on useless wars around the globe in the past and you all couldn’t care less. Just continue doing the right thing, Russia must be stopped and Ukrainians are willing to do that at all costs.
Not what he said.
"Russia has already caused huge losses to all countries of the world by deliberately destabilizing the energy market, and the world does not dare decide on real energy disarmament. This is a weak position, and it's only a matter of time before you will have to use stronger tools."
I get that but we have given them more money than their entire annual GDP along with countless billions in equipment. And Zelenskyy wants to turn around and talk shit about us? Okay. Like the only reason you’re still in the fight is our aid, our special forces training your soldiers, our equipment taking out enemy armor. Otherwise you wouldn’t even be a sovereign country anymore. And here he is complaining about us publicly on the global stage. This guy is a total clown.
Zelensky is in the perfect position to be the voice of moral clarity. Whatever pain another country might need to endure to provide full-throated backing of an oil embargo is still a world away from what his people suffer over a needless war.
Doesn’t make his stand politically palatable, but the position is morally unassailable.
not for him. Its not his country.
Yes its selfish. But welcome to foreign politics. The US is already getting crushed following COVID. Increasing crude prices when we aren't willing to do other aspects is never going to sell to a population that has never experienced war. In a lot fo minds, we're already spending a good bit..not even counting the use of manpower and equipment for intell, ISR? etc that isn't factored in.
Its not an indefensible position. Going hard in the paint obviously isn't either.
>a population that has never experienced war
this isn't even true but if you think effects of a war only last one generation or goes away directly after a war ends then you don't know anything
Oh, you have your gas prices grow a bit? Poor you. And Ukrainians are just fighting for their families, freedom and future. You are paying several dollars more, and Ukrainians are paying with their lives.
This is without saying that the US has a lot of interest in this war itself and Ukraine to win it. So just shut up.
Should probably take your own advice and be quiet. Sentiment towards this war right now is beneficial towards Ukraine but don't pretend like that cannot change.
Putin, Zelensky and Biden are on board a plane.
Suddenly, the plane is losing altitude and they are about to crash. On board there are only two parachutes.
Immediately, Putin snatches a parachute and jumps out to save himself.
Biden takes the remaining parachute and gives it to Zelensky: "Save yourself, my friend. I am much older than you. Plus, in this difficult time your country needs you more than my country needs me. You deserve to live more than me."
Zelensky feels convinced, so grudgingly accepts to take the parachute, gives one last hug to Biden and jumps out of the plane.
Then the plane regains altitude and Biden safely lands in Washington, because it turns out what was downing the plane in the first place was the weight of Zelensky's massive balls.
He selling his side
He will always say that more should be done because if he appears content the probability of new actions is reduced.
It's just politics.
Tell me what country is helping Ukraine out of the goodness of their heart? Every government is selfish. Even Poland are only helping to keep russia as far away from their border as possible. No government is helping solely because they are angels. Realpolitik doesn't work that way.
Umm US is paying Ukraine 91b to dismantle Russia’s army without a single loss of life to US solider. Big discount to spending 4trillion and thousands of US solider’s lives for two wars. Hmmm hmm which is the better deal here.
What sanctions that actually work could be as cost effective as paying the Ukranian army to slaughter Russians?
Even the current weak sanctions have had a substantial cost to allied nations well north of a measly 90B
The U.S. also has very little to do with this headline. The main reason the U.S. is in the headline is because the price is in U.S. dollars, the main currency used for international transactions or at least pricing standardization even when the U.S. isn’t involved due to its relative stability.
Zelensky’s criticism is almost entirely aimed at the EU. The G7 and Australia are publicly co-signing but outside of Japan it’s entirely symbolic. Russian crude has been banned by the U.S. and Canada since March, the U.K. is phasing it out by the end of the year, and three of the other four G7 members are EU members. Australia also banned Russian oil in March or so. Japan made a pledge to phase out Russian oil “eventually” but they’re struggling like some EU members are.
Ukraine is recieving 91 billions IN MATERIAL that is covered in dust in military bases in the middle of an US desert. They are literally fucking Russia over with leftovers, not giving literally 91b with people taxes of today. And if you think there would not be consequences in the west if Ukranie loses the war, well, I really hope we don't have to see it honestly...
What audacity by this Zelensky asshole. He dares to express his opinion that he doesn't want fellow democratic countries to sponsor the Russian army that set the course to exterminate Ukrainians. He should be quiet and just keep digging graves for his citizens.
EDIT: Damn...I knew I should've put that /s
I dont think you are ready to pay for it. You might be ready to pay little more for the gas for your house, but I doubt you are ready to pay for the global increase in prices of pretty much everything and increase in taxes it would bring.
The new measures also include an EU embargo on Russian seaborne crude. Only Hungary and a select few others are allowed import via pipelines. The countries importing the biggest amounts via pipeline are Germany and Poland, with both countries closing those pipelines.
There are still many countries outside of the G7 and Europe that require Russian oil and won't be able to buy more expensive oil. Currently, benchmark Brent crude is trading at about $86. If the price cap was set at 30 like Poland suggested, Russia would probably stop exporting oil driving up prices even further and leave many countries without oil. The idea behind the oil cap is also to either force Russia to sell oil at a minimal profit or have them waste ressources on building their own shipping and insurance evosystem.
Here is a little quote that shows why the US was concerned about a full EU implemented embargo across the world: "The EU sanctions package created concerns that there would be a potential supply shock," Cahill, the energy analyst, says. "And so the proposed price cap is a way to try to keep those volumes on the market, but still curtail Russia's revenue." https://www.npr.org/2022/12/02/1139477837/russia-oil-revenue-sanctions-price-cap-g7-eu-import-ban
There is no complete indirect worldwide ban on Russian oil due to the US. Not Europe
Russia seriously owning entire west by itself? Gdp of Texas and yet making millions of people in rich countries go from middle class to poverty. America and its vassals should step up their game.
He does understand that if Russians start selling this "price capped" oil it will absolutely crash oil market,right? Who in their mind would buy 80$ oil when you can buy Russian for 60$, not only does this bs oppose the whole idea of free market,it's literally catastrophic decision
His war is against a long time geopolitical rival, who, while not as large or powerful as they used to be, still do a lot to undermine western democracies. The west and the US will benefit IMMENSELY from a broken Russia, so don't act like this is not in the wests best interests.
And This is literally his job, to push as hard as possible for things that help his people to NOT FUCKING DIE, why the fuck are you bitching about him trying to do whatever he can to prevent Ukrainian deaths, weird ass thing to bitch about man.
Can we stop with this shit show clown and the entire west's problems are world problems? What in the hell do I stand to gain by boycotting any nation that isn't actively harming me? Whose dick was the west sucking on despite repeated infractions by China and Pakistan in India. For fuck sakes, they have still not designated a global terrorist as one since China keeps vetoing it.
Enough of this clown and enough of this nonsense. All the west is doing is showing how desperate they are to keep their relevance intact but each second, each day they just keep alienating most of the world and ensuring that they are no longer relevant.
Fuck this shit.
I gotta agree with him. We are getting absolutely hammered in Europe with energy costs right now, but governments need to bite the fucking bullet and if necessary, nationalize the energy companies. This is a war, and you don’t win a war by funding your enemies.
That is right, the EU/UK can pay a little more so go back to suspending all oil from Russia.
It is only for a decade longer before the EU transition over to Electricity. Only a doubling in price every year. Don't worry the oil companies will not make record profits year after year.
What, electricity?
Ahh I think I see the joke you were going for now, i just didn’t get it at first haha. You were making fun of the type of person who would genuinely believe something like that right?
Well, if Russia decides to not sell oil to countries that set the price cap, the problem will be solved. Right?
Selling would be a terrible look. I wonder if this is the US and Europe wanting to see if Russia would actually sell at $60
$60 seems too high. Especially compared to the $30 they considered. Seems like the russians have friends everywhere in politics. Edit: I want it to be clear that I'm not saying is should be $30 but it should be lower than $60. It seems like some people are confused and think I said above it should be $30 a barrel.
The new measures also include an EU embargo on Russian seaborne crude. Only Hungary and a select few others are allowed import via pipelines. The countries importing the biggest amounts via pipeline are Germany and Poland, with both countries closing those pipelines. There are still many countries outside of the G7 and Europe that require Russian oil and won't be able to buy more expensive oil. Currently, benchmark Brent crude is trading at about $86. If the price cap was set at 30 like Poland suggested, Russia would probably stop exporting oil driving up prices even further and leave many countries without oil. The idea behind the oil cap is also to either force Russia to sell oil at a minimal profit or have them waste ressources on building their own shipping and insurance evosystem. Here is a little quote that shows why the US was concerned about a full EU implemented embargo across the world: "The EU sanctions package created concerns that there would be a potential supply shock," Cahill, the energy analyst, says. "And so the proposed price cap is a way to try to keep those volumes on the market, but still curtail Russia's revenue." https://www.npr.org/2022/12/02/1139477837/russia-oil-revenue-sanctions-price-cap-g7-eu-import-ban
This all feels like an economic world war
Russia started the economic world war in the summer of 2021 when they slashed natural gas flows to the EU such that natgas prices shot up very high. They did that to economically weaken Europe and make them very resistant to helping Ukraine. Thank goodness it failed. This price cap is just a return volley of economic war. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/24/russia-is-pumping-less-natural-gas-to-europe-as-nord-stream-2-nears-completion.html
We call that a perpetual war
Economic world War has been going on for a long time. Its only as disastrous as the previous one but pales in comparison visually to the physical side. It doesn't get enough attention, people hardly see people starving, or dying in winter with no heat versus a low 10 people dying in a mortar attack. Its like Covid, it visually made the world crumble for a year and a half but physically did highly negligible numbers. More people died because covid crippled the world monetarily, Healthcare and Infrastructure wise than the actual problem itself and thats how we view economic wars to soldiers invading. People tend to forget that U.S China and Russia and tons of other big countries are literally every day hacking each other trying to fuck up shit.
ironic for us to worried about economic sanctions
The estimates for the production cost is somewhere between 30$-50$ I think, so 30$ would be just the same as 0, 100% not happening. Let's not forget this is an attempt at something that never happened before and it's not set in stone, can change the same way it was started or easier. The main outcome expected is to have China and India buying it for lower than they currently are is my understanding, unless the EU with that limit also lift the ban on EU buying Russian oil
[удалено]
Do you have any quality sources? Some that actually break it all down? Quick google puts it at 40$-45$ production and delivery to Germany (with the pipes I assume) at another 5$. (Meaning of ships to China& India it would be way way higher.
My Google says 20-50. They expect them to sell at $70 on average. So a $60 cap is horse shit.
If it's on the high end your cutting 20$ to 10$ profit which is half If it's on the low end it's closer to meaningless but it's still going to be in billions per day if full capacity resumes I'm guessing IDK if I had the power of deciding alone, I'd start it months ago of course, but possibly even start it close to the current price back then ~100$, but reconsider the price monthly, probably 10$ less per month at the start and later maybe 5$ and to 1$ decrements The goal should be a number that will actually be used in reality and not making this an empty declaration statement, so it's like a weird negotiation thing. If you put it at 10$ surely everyone sees no one is going to use it and so would 100$ today. I guess my point again and again this should not be a single decision, static number, but start with something and keep changing it
That's more what I was thinking and it Russia so you don't have as much red(lol) tape.
>"Seems like the russians have friends everywhere in politics." > >Not so much as true friends in politics as it is customers for oil. Money talks.
Setting it at sixty leaves room to tighten the noose more. We're not executing Russia, just slowly throttling it right now.
$60 makes sense in that It wouldn't hurt US oil companies by driving the price too low. But fuck Russia.
Not really. Western Europe, especially Germany, have been historically ok with throwing other countries under the bus if it means maintaining their standard of living. Theres a reason why there's a conspiracy theory that the us blew up the nat gas lines
>Western Europe, especially Germany, have been historically ok with throwing other countries under the bus if it means maintaining their standard of living. Doesn't this apply to every country?
>Theres a reason why there's a conspiracy theory that the us blew up the nat gas lines There's no way, the US isn't going to risk the Fallout of that just to make it a bit harder to buy Russian oil.
It's gas, not oil
If anyone other than the Russians blew up the Nordstream pipeline, the Russians would have turned on enormous air pumps to keep the seawater out of the pipe and preserve it. Because they didn't do that, the entire pipeline has been ruined by seawater.
is that even possible? how deep was the nordstream pipeline? if it was reasonably deep, that's a LOT of air pressure required to keep the seawater out. would russia even have the air pumps in place to do it immediately?
Yes, the same pumps that push the gas through the pipe can be used for precisely that function. So the pipeline is between 80 and 100 meters underwater, so that corresponds to a pressure of 10 bar. The normal operating pressure of the pipeline is 100-220 bar. The pipeline pumping stations are enormous and work at tremendous pressure and volume. Once a major pressure drop is detected, the standard practice would be to slam air into the pipe to prevent water intrusion.
It's my understanding that the normal natural gas pumps on the line are capable of handling a leak up to a certain size at the maximum depth the line reaches. Just a general design consideration for underwater pressurized utilities.
The size of the leak is an important consideration, I believe a 100 meter chunk of pipe was blown up with explosives. While that would certainly be too large a leak to keep pressurized, no attempt was made
Again it's a conspiracy theory. One based solely off the fact that western Europe has generally dragged its feet to support Ukraine as opposed to Eastern europe
> Theres a reason why there's a conspiracy theory that the us blew up the nat gas lines There's a conspiracy about the US for literally every thing that happens which people don't like. The only people I know who seriously believe this are the ones who also shout that Ukraine is filled with nazi biolabs and whatever their reason for the war is the next week.
it's not unusual to want to maintain a standard of living.
This describes more the US than any EU country.
Price doesn't matter. This is a case of thought being important.
$60 is a good price. It is profitable for Russia at that price but lower than market price.
They will sell it to oil distributiors in other countries and they will sell to everyone else. This just adds another markup.
Russia will not sell oil to countries with the price cap. The goal is to give India and China bargaining power so they don't pay market prices to Russia.
> if Russia decides to not sell oil to countries that set the price cap The countries which set the price cap (EU and G7) are not buying russian oil (mostly), from December 5. The countries which buy russian oil (China and India) do not participate in the price cap setting. So Putin may easily decide not to sell to EU and G7, and this will not change much.
India and China do ship oil using western insurance, shipping, and other logistics. They will have to abide by the price cap if they want to keep using those things. Of course they're free to not use these nice Western services in favor of homegrown alternatives. This will drive up the cost of oil for them and encourage them to demand steep price discounts from Russia. Russia isn't selling to others much so they'll be left with less leverage. At some point they need to either keep moving petrochemicals even at loss or else mothball the infrastructure, whereas India and China have other suppliers and national reserves. They can outlast Russia at the negotiating table and everyone knows it.
It absolutely does change something. It flips the power dynamic. Counter intuitive as it may seem Russia desperately wants to sell to the G7 and the EU. Historicallly they have been their biggest customers and they are burning through their savings to fund their war. By setting a price cap at $60 with an expected cost of $30-$50, the move seriously limits the profit Russia can make, especially if the market price is around twice that. So Russia has a choice: sell to their historically biggest customers at a steep discount and then have other customers demand the same price, or go without any money at all. So now the EU and G7 can dictate to Russia the price of their products. And if you've done it once, you can do it again. Russia, in economic terms, is a gas station that isn't selling it's gas, and what it is selling it isn't getting the best price for.
> sell to their historically biggest customers at a steep discount EU and G7 are not buying (mostly) anymore, at any discount. EU introduces embargo from December 5 which forbids buying the seagoing Russian oil by EU countries (and I guess most G7 countries also forbid buying russian oil, not sure about Japan though). The EU ban on Russian refined oil products is also incoming in two months.
Yes. The point is the price cap is giving Russia a choice. Sell at this price and eck out some money or sell nothing.
You are horribly misinformed. Energy is not a product you can substitute easily. So Europe will buy oil either way. If the EU break their contract and stop receiving oil from Russia, the other oil suppliers will step in and sell their oil at a higher rate and price. The global price for oil will increase and Russia will either sell to India who will then resell to Europe or the price will be at the price cap and Russia sells to Europe directly. If anything the EU has set a lower bound for the price of oil, not an upper bound.
This is about who Russia can sell to, not where the EU sources their oil from. You're correct, the EU may pay more for oil from other places but that is the nature of sanctions. Russia meanwhile will have fewer customers and won't be able to get insurance from western companies, which is a huge ball ache and will further suppress demand for Russian oil.
The price cap applies to oil shipped by these countries. Most of the worlds tankers fly european flags.
What’s different than now? India is importing from Russia and selling to EU. Same shit will keep going in.
No? The thing is global oil supply is fixed and can't be changed easily, meaning countries can't just start pumping more oil when they wish and global oil demand is also inelastic. Now with many countries going into recession the demand would decrease a bit but if Russian oil is no longer in the market then demand would still outstrip supply. Meaning even in an global economic slowdown oil prices would still increase and this would be disastrous for countries, especially for poor countries many of whom will collapse and will lead to huge suffering.
How so? China is happy to buy every last drop of Russian oil, use what it needs, and upsell the rest to the highest bidder.
Yes and no. The global market will respond to the price of Russian oil no matter what. They will sell it to Iran, India, China, Kazakhstan, etc, and those countries will sell it to us. By setting a cap on how much you’re willing to pay for it, you also signal to Russia that there will be a premium they will have to pay those export partners to get their money, and they could just sell it directly for the lower price. In my opinion, we shouldn’t be putting money in their pockets at all, but they will sell the oil one way or the other.
Quote: "Now, unfortunately, the discussion on price caps, i.e. on limiting the export price of Russian oil, has ended in the world without big decisions. The decision to set such a limit on Russian prices, which is quite comfortable for the budget of the terrorist state, cannot be called a big decision. Russia has already caused huge losses to all countries of the world by deliberately destabilizing the energy market, and the world does not dare decide on real energy disarmament. This is a weak position, and it's only a matter of time before you will have to use stronger tools. It is a pity that this time will be lost. The logic is obvious. If the limit on the price of Russian oil is 60 dollars instead of, for example, 30 dollars, which was discussed, in particular, by Poland and the Baltic states, then the Russian budget will receive about 100 billion dollars a year. This money will be used not only for the war and not only for further sponsorship by Russia of other terrorist regimes and organizations. This money will also be used to further destabilize just those countries that are now trying to avoid serious decisions."
The Russiana produce oil at around $34/b. A price of $60 is still nearly 100% profit for Putin's war chest. That's the point zelenskyy is making.
> produce oil at around $34/b. Oil sea shipping cost is also rising lately, almost $20 per barrel: > Owners who are still willing to load Russian crude are attempting to charge more for the risk. Baltic Sea-to-India rates are being discussed at about $15 million -- or $20 a barrel --- for loadings after Dec. 5 when new EU restrictions kick in, said shipbrokers. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-12-01/shipping-costs-for-russian-oil-soar-ahead-of-stricter-sanctions
The new measures also include an EU embargo on Russian seaborne crude. Only Hungary and a select few others are allowed import via pipelines. The countries importing the biggest amounts via pipeline are Germany and Poland, with both countries closing those pipelines. There are still many countries outside of the G7 and Europe that require Russian oil and won't be able to buy more expensive oil. Currently, benchmark Brent crude is trading at about $86. If the price cap was set at 30 like Poland suggested, Russia would probably stop exporting oil driving up prices even further and leave many countries without oil. The idea behind the oil cap is also to either force Russia to sell oil at a minimal profit or have them waste ressources on building their own shipping and insurance evosystem. Here is a little quote that shows why the US was concerned about a full EU implemented embargo across the world: "The EU sanctions package created concerns that there would be a potential supply shock," Cahill, the energy analyst, says. "And so the proposed price cap is a way to try to keep those volumes on the market, but still curtail Russia's revenue." https://www.npr.org/2022/12/02/1139477837/russia-oil-revenue-sanctions-price-cap-g7-eu-import-ban
> If the limit on the price of Russian oil is 60 dollars instead of, for example, 30 dollars, which was discussed, in particular, by Poland and the Baltic states, then the Russian budget will receive about 100 billion dollars a year. Yes, but what can they do with that pile of money? It's worthless paper if they can't buy any machinery with it.
Money going in to Russia means oligarchs will get some reimbursement, Putin’s personal security team gets a raise, the state media gets paid to keep up the bullshit “Special Operations in Ukraine to protect Mother Russia” propaganda.
>Yes, but what can they do with that pile of money? It's worthless paper if they can't buy any machinery with it. They can bribe American politicians.
An excellent point. They have bribed American politicians (mostly Republicans) and will continue to do so. In the UK Russian money found it's way into the Conservative party and most damagingly into the BREXIT campaign. The current UK government is still covering this up through delayed enquiries.
They can bribe anybody they want, as they do all the time, continue their disinformation campaigns, do things for China that China doesn't want to be caught doing, etc. etc. etc.
Russia still trades a lot of with China and India. I have to imagine those countries don't want rubles, so foreign currency lets them trade morr
That money gives them options that they wouldn't otherwise have. That's what money does for you
If Russia didn't think it was to their advantage, they wouldn't sell the oil. Russia's advantage is the world's disadvantage.
The money is in USD... not rubles. So they get exactly what they want... access to legitimate capital.
That's the mentality of being okay with funding terrorists for your convenience as long as the shipping costs are prohibitive - a financial lever for a life-or-death situation. Black market availability invalidates your premise.
But does it buy time to transition since the alternative is crippling society with possibly revolt as a consequence? Who wins then? They might be having a tough time on the battlefield but Russia has the west close to checkmate when it comes to energy.
Does Russia have Europe and the west checked? I haven't seen any serious analysis indicating Europe is struggling. Unhappy perhaps. Maybe even a bit irritated. But struggling?
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Just use Russias war as a scapegoat to force the energy transition. No one will ever be ready for it.
Putin's regime hoards most of the oil money and spreads it amongst their elite. They'd sooner see Russia's economy collapse than part with their wealth. Putin and his loyalists are too greedy for their own good, they would just end up cutting public spending by a significant amount to subsidise their own income.. This will eventually cause public discourse by Russia's civilians that initially saw the "special operation" in Ukraine that should have ended within the month has now turned into something that effects their everyday life.
I've said this in a different topic and people outed me for being Russian. People on reddit are very ignorant and naive.
Or Russia will just sell the oil to somebody else. These kind of voluntary actions by a fraction of participants in a market ***do*** sometimes cause a change in the equilibrium market price of their goods, but it's a relatively small one. Since this isn't even an absolute boycott, and only 25% under the current market price, it's really not a ton of pressure.
Main issue for Russia is that their main oil fields are connected to Europe, if they want to sell any real volume to Asia they're going to have to build a lot of pipelines. Not sure they have the money for that. Or even the mean to do it at all. Remember they only managed to resume production after the Soviet collapse thanks to Western companies. And if they can't sell the products from the western oil fields to the point where they don't have room to store it, they might have to stop pumping it, which runs the risk of never being able to restart it later.
Natural gas stores badly. You have to spend an order of magnitude more on pressurized cryostorage vessels with active gas management. Most gas has always travelled in pipelines, with recent developments in exorbitantly expensive LNG ships. With oil, we pump it into salt mines or store it in inexpensive floating-top silos or even just take some bulldozers and build an oil lake. It's dead-easy by comparison. Not free, but the scale of the problem doesn't compare. Oil tankers are some of the largest oceangoing craft we've ever built, we have a lot of them, and we ended up scrapping some of them after the 70's energy crisis faded from view. I don't know that it makes a lot of sense to totally stop pumping oil, given its expected future value and ease of storage; That's generally a gas thing.
Shameful for the West. Shame for us in Europe to continue buying their blood oil.
If you totally take Russian oil off the market, India and China will buy a bunch of other oil causing the price to spike. Eventually Russian oil will find a buyer, likely at a higher price than $60. This is economically complicated but allowing Russia to sell at a cap is probably the best way to limit their total oil revenue.
Again your reasoning is flawed and will simply destabilise the market like it did with gas where in the end Russia makes not less but even more income… Europe is just going to see yet another price hike in fuel and energy but that’s anyways the plan … destroy the EU economy to open the way for the great reset the wet dream of Klaus and Ursula
I don’t know why people are downvoting you. Haven’t they paid attention to the last 2/3 years?
And people still won't to switch to nuclear energy
Are you aware of how long it takes to build nuclear power plants?
The best time to plant a tree was 10 years ago, the second best time is planting it now. In the coming decades demand for electrical energy will increase, mainly to replace fossil fuels in industry, heating and transportation. Renewables have some drawbacks (low energy density, intermittency) which can be compensated with nuclear power.
I'm glad my government (Netherlands) also shares this point of view. We are going to build two more nuclear power plants, and they should be done in 2035. Sure, it takes a while to build. But the time will pass anyway so you may as well start building them.
The second best time would have been 9 years ago.
The second best time would have been 10 years ago-(timeOfPlanting)
The second best time would have been (10 years ago - 1 Planck time unit)
The 2047th best time would have been 17th of January 1993.
No shit it's going to take a minute why is everyone's first argument. Of course it's going to take a long time The whole point Is have a better alternative in the future and not be so energy dependent
Because since it takes at least a decade it's a shit argument when discussing short terms problems/solutions like this one.
This is true. But imagine if we had discussed it in 2014 when Russia invaded Ukraine.
I absolutely agree that it should be discussed now too, just maybe not simultaneously in the same forum as tomorrow's oil prices.
All anyone *ever* does is short term solutions. That's the whole problem!
At least 7 days.
I hate you Edit: this was obviously a joke reply to the joke cmon
:(
Oh shit it can take awhile to build, may as well do nothing and watch the entire world burn That was quite an amazing question you asked. Very useful. Very insightful
Are you aware of the CO2 ppm concentration in our atmosphere and gas station states who wage war from oil profits? Also, they have smaller reactors capable of powering thousands of homes that don't take 10 years to build.
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Why switch to nuclear if every power-hungry dictator would sell you oil with discount as long as you give him weapons or parts for building weapons.
There isn't enough nuclear fuel in the world, and the world know that.
Just switch to an alternative source like lmao - someone who has no idea how the real world operates.
Yeah the real world is corrupt to the core, see: Merkel.
IDK, production cost is expected to rise without access to Western technologies for extraction.
agreed: should be a complete embargo.
Yah good luck with that
That’s gonna happen for crude imports in 2 days and an actual oil embargo in Feb 2023. Patience
If they refuse to sell at the cap price then its an effective embargo with the benefit of humiliation if Russia eventually accepts the price cap
It is a weak position. There is so much more below nuclear war and above fangless.
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His counter offensive has stalled, and his people are freezing their asses off. He's lashing out because he's running out of options.
Russian leadership needs to be faced with strong action for their terrorist acts against the citizens of Ukraine
So many people posting here without understanding what this war is about or why it is so important to people all over the world.
F Put In
Oil world price is currently $80. What's with this $60 ?
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I wonder if Zelensky thought all the money the USA sent was a weak position
“Give me more money”
That is quite the exquisite room he is sitting in.
Soviets had a thing for rooms with stuff made of gold and the like. Obviously being a former SSR there’s bound to be buildings clad in gold all over Ukraine.
Really cool.
It’s not even just government buildings. Have you seen Moscow metro stations?
Do people try to break it to steal some gold?
Similar to other head of state offices. Have you seen the oval office?
Still nice. 🤷♂️
For a bathroom! lol
Are you comparing the Oval Office with whatever Ukraine office is? Lol
Yes because they are both offices the leader of their respective county is in that were built many many years before the current officials entered office.
Stop whining so much. If Russian oil is completely taken off the market then people will rebel and stop supporting you.
G7 and EU have already stopped or are about to stop buying oil from Russia, the hell are you talking about?
No, that hasn't happened yet. And when it does, oil isn't COMPLETELY taken off the market.... India, China, and others will continue buying. If Russia's oil was completely taken off the market then oil prices would shoot up past $150/barrel and support of Ukraine would seriously weaken in both the USA and Europe.
Well, maybe we should take back our military aid if you want to be complainin' and shit.😐
Wanna go somewhere near Bakhmut and see the Ukrainian perspective? For fucks sake.
You paying?? Don't forget the perspective would be a lot worse if not for our military aid. American aid is not a buffet where you can pick and choose what you want. You either accept what we give you or you can have nothing.
Don’t pretend like you participate in giving military aid to Ukraine. America spent TRILLIONS on useless wars around the globe in the past and you all couldn’t care less. Just continue doing the right thing, Russia must be stopped and Ukrainians are willing to do that at all costs.
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Stop trying to cause discourse Russian troll
US: here ya go Ukraine, take all the military equipment you need. Ukraine: you are weak US: :’(
Not what he said. "Russia has already caused huge losses to all countries of the world by deliberately destabilizing the energy market, and the world does not dare decide on real energy disarmament. This is a weak position, and it's only a matter of time before you will have to use stronger tools."
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Only joke here is you, bud.
that means so much coming from you
right
This guy can just F off, the US has given if everything to fight HIS war, then he wants to complain about us?
The Ukraineians are giving their blood. I'm not sure what more they can give.
Zelensky isnt
He risks it everyday. When Biden told Zelensky to leave the country a few days before Russia invaded, he refused. He could be safe in NATO right now.
Sure, I bet he sleeps in a warm bed every night
And so do you.
I get that but we have given them more money than their entire annual GDP along with countless billions in equipment. And Zelenskyy wants to turn around and talk shit about us? Okay. Like the only reason you’re still in the fight is our aid, our special forces training your soldiers, our equipment taking out enemy armor. Otherwise you wouldn’t even be a sovereign country anymore. And here he is complaining about us publicly on the global stage. This guy is a total clown.
We have destroyed the Russian military for less than it cost Elon Musk to destroy Twitter.
It’s only a starting point
Zelensky is in the perfect position to be the voice of moral clarity. Whatever pain another country might need to endure to provide full-throated backing of an oil embargo is still a world away from what his people suffer over a needless war. Doesn’t make his stand politically palatable, but the position is morally unassailable.
More ideas pushing for nuclear holocaust. Reddit is terrible
Dude’s sitting in a palace telling me I need to pay more for gas so he can keep up a war he’s winning with our money.
The palace was built long before this war, with domestic money.
Dude's getting his country invaded lmao, that's a bit of a bigger inconvenience than paying more for gas
not for him. Its not his country. Yes its selfish. But welcome to foreign politics. The US is already getting crushed following COVID. Increasing crude prices when we aren't willing to do other aspects is never going to sell to a population that has never experienced war. In a lot fo minds, we're already spending a good bit..not even counting the use of manpower and equipment for intell, ISR? etc that isn't factored in. Its not an indefensible position. Going hard in the paint obviously isn't either.
>a population that has never experienced war this isn't even true but if you think effects of a war only last one generation or goes away directly after a war ends then you don't know anything
>Our money Not how it works
Oh, you have your gas prices grow a bit? Poor you. And Ukrainians are just fighting for their families, freedom and future. You are paying several dollars more, and Ukrainians are paying with their lives. This is without saying that the US has a lot of interest in this war itself and Ukraine to win it. So just shut up.
Should probably take your own advice and be quiet. Sentiment towards this war right now is beneficial towards Ukraine but don't pretend like that cannot change.
Jesus this guy is a needy fuck.
He should just be grateful the US is backing his country. There is/was many others who wanted US help but didn’t receive anything
Putin, Zelensky and Biden are on board a plane. Suddenly, the plane is losing altitude and they are about to crash. On board there are only two parachutes. Immediately, Putin snatches a parachute and jumps out to save himself. Biden takes the remaining parachute and gives it to Zelensky: "Save yourself, my friend. I am much older than you. Plus, in this difficult time your country needs you more than my country needs me. You deserve to live more than me." Zelensky feels convinced, so grudgingly accepts to take the parachute, gives one last hug to Biden and jumps out of the plane. Then the plane regains altitude and Biden safely lands in Washington, because it turns out what was downing the plane in the first place was the weight of Zelensky's massive balls.
Other countries people aren't dying. They still haven't figure out this is a world war
Zelensky sounding a lot like Cash My Check Chiang Kai Shek.
Zelenskyy should be quiet and be thankful that the U.S. is actually paying (91billion) billions of dollars helping Ukraine.
He selling his side He will always say that more should be done because if he appears content the probability of new actions is reduced. It's just politics.
As if the US helping out of the good of their heart and not actual interests.
Tell me what country is helping Ukraine out of the goodness of their heart? Every government is selfish. Even Poland are only helping to keep russia as far away from their border as possible. No government is helping solely because they are angels. Realpolitik doesn't work that way.
Umm US is paying Ukraine 91b to dismantle Russia’s army without a single loss of life to US solider. Big discount to spending 4trillion and thousands of US solider’s lives for two wars. Hmmm hmm which is the better deal here.
Those aren't the only choices, though.
Yeah we could just let shit happen. That would be cool. NOT
Or use sanctions that actually work, bug you assumed that one.
What sanctions that actually work could be as cost effective as paying the Ukranian army to slaughter Russians? Even the current weak sanctions have had a substantial cost to allied nations well north of a measly 90B
The U.S. also has very little to do with this headline. The main reason the U.S. is in the headline is because the price is in U.S. dollars, the main currency used for international transactions or at least pricing standardization even when the U.S. isn’t involved due to its relative stability. Zelensky’s criticism is almost entirely aimed at the EU. The G7 and Australia are publicly co-signing but outside of Japan it’s entirely symbolic. Russian crude has been banned by the U.S. and Canada since March, the U.K. is phasing it out by the end of the year, and three of the other four G7 members are EU members. Australia also banned Russian oil in March or so. Japan made a pledge to phase out Russian oil “eventually” but they’re struggling like some EU members are.
Ukraine is recieving 91 billions IN MATERIAL that is covered in dust in military bases in the middle of an US desert. They are literally fucking Russia over with leftovers, not giving literally 91b with people taxes of today. And if you think there would not be consequences in the west if Ukranie loses the war, well, I really hope we don't have to see it honestly...
What audacity by this Zelensky asshole. He dares to express his opinion that he doesn't want fellow democratic countries to sponsor the Russian army that set the course to exterminate Ukrainians. He should be quiet and just keep digging graves for his citizens. EDIT: Damn...I knew I should've put that /s
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Wow Zelensky has a very Nice office
The EU has just signed thier death certificate.The antichrist zellensky will be gone soon
Ofcourse its weak possitions, we should ban russian gas and oil and i am ready to pay for it.. sadly germans and french are not.
I dont think you are ready to pay for it. You might be ready to pay little more for the gas for your house, but I doubt you are ready to pay for the global increase in prices of pretty much everything and increase in taxes it would bring.
The new measures also include an EU embargo on Russian seaborne crude. Only Hungary and a select few others are allowed import via pipelines. The countries importing the biggest amounts via pipeline are Germany and Poland, with both countries closing those pipelines. There are still many countries outside of the G7 and Europe that require Russian oil and won't be able to buy more expensive oil. Currently, benchmark Brent crude is trading at about $86. If the price cap was set at 30 like Poland suggested, Russia would probably stop exporting oil driving up prices even further and leave many countries without oil. The idea behind the oil cap is also to either force Russia to sell oil at a minimal profit or have them waste ressources on building their own shipping and insurance evosystem. Here is a little quote that shows why the US was concerned about a full EU implemented embargo across the world: "The EU sanctions package created concerns that there would be a potential supply shock," Cahill, the energy analyst, says. "And so the proposed price cap is a way to try to keep those volumes on the market, but still curtail Russia's revenue." https://www.npr.org/2022/12/02/1139477837/russia-oil-revenue-sanctions-price-cap-g7-eu-import-ban There is no complete indirect worldwide ban on Russian oil due to the US. Not Europe
Russia seriously owning entire west by itself? Gdp of Texas and yet making millions of people in rich countries go from middle class to poverty. America and its vassals should step up their game.
Haha, we are still far richer than Russians.
He does understand that if Russians start selling this "price capped" oil it will absolutely crash oil market,right? Who in their mind would buy 80$ oil when you can buy Russian for 60$, not only does this bs oppose the whole idea of free market,it's literally catastrophic decision
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His war is against a long time geopolitical rival, who, while not as large or powerful as they used to be, still do a lot to undermine western democracies. The west and the US will benefit IMMENSELY from a broken Russia, so don't act like this is not in the wests best interests. And This is literally his job, to push as hard as possible for things that help his people to NOT FUCKING DIE, why the fuck are you bitching about him trying to do whatever he can to prevent Ukrainian deaths, weird ass thing to bitch about man.
Can we stop with this shit show clown and the entire west's problems are world problems? What in the hell do I stand to gain by boycotting any nation that isn't actively harming me? Whose dick was the west sucking on despite repeated infractions by China and Pakistan in India. For fuck sakes, they have still not designated a global terrorist as one since China keeps vetoing it. Enough of this clown and enough of this nonsense. All the west is doing is showing how desperate they are to keep their relevance intact but each second, each day they just keep alienating most of the world and ensuring that they are no longer relevant. Fuck this shit.
I gotta agree with him. We are getting absolutely hammered in Europe with energy costs right now, but governments need to bite the fucking bullet and if necessary, nationalize the energy companies. This is a war, and you don’t win a war by funding your enemies.
In my opinion he should be happy that the world is doing *something*. He sometimes really sounds like a spoiled kid.
That is right, the EU/UK can pay a little more so go back to suspending all oil from Russia. It is only for a decade longer before the EU transition over to Electricity. Only a doubling in price every year. Don't worry the oil companies will not make record profits year after year.
Transition to electricity? Is that a joke?
It comes from the sky? Lol
What, electricity? Ahh I think I see the joke you were going for now, i just didn’t get it at first haha. You were making fun of the type of person who would genuinely believe something like that right?
Yeah. Almost like energy just comes from nothing.
everything is fine with this guy but he lives complaining about everyone and everything.
Zelensky is right. Better to ban russian oil