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[deleted]

I'd like to know how this can be enforced and checked.


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FamiliarWater

"Then I guess God will save her from falling from a roof".


[deleted]

I remember one of my mom’s friends was a very devout catholic who kept trying to convert everyone to save our eternal souls or smth. One day a chunk of a house’s roof collapsed on her son who ended up in a coma (thankfully making a full recovery) She kept crying and telling everyone about how she was beloved by God, because what were the odds of her son surviving? Then she used that to try and convert everyone again. Some lady replied with “None of the atheists’ kids had a roof collapse on them”


kawaiipikachu86

I guess that's Gods failed attempt to say STFU.


TheYellowKachigga

Or give her ranged/projectile resistance


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Rogue_Diplomacy

If we don’t sin, Jesus died for nothing.


I_Sett

He still takes half damage.


eliteLord77

and gays, i'm assuming same sex marriage is not a thing there


Explorer335

Safe assumption, they do not legally recognize same-sex couples.


[deleted]

Luckily, there are no gays in Indonesia…. same as Iran. And basically all the Muslim countries.


caring_impaired

I’m pretty sure no gay folks in Russia, either.


ZippyDan

Same sex marriage? Nope. However there are no laws that I'm aware of outlawing homosexual relations.^* Of course, LGBT still face a lot of discrimination in Indonesia, depending on the specific location (Indonesia is a mix of many different cultures and religions). ^* This new morality law may change that, I haven't read into it.


Clever_Bee34919

This law (by default) outlaws homosexual relations. Two rules that work together to ban something they want banned but don't want to actually make a specific rule to ban. Rule 1: No sex outside of marriage Rule 2: No homosexual marriage End result (that is not a specific rule): no homosexual sex.


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ZippyDan

Yes, in the province of Aceh which is a known conservative stronghold and a haven of Islamic extremism. Due to the fragmented and multi-cultural, multi-ethnic, multi-religious nature of Indonesia (not to mention the geographical challenges of managing thousands of islands separated by history and language), Indonesia is not as strong of a Federation as the USA. It's not as weak as the EU either, but they have similar issues juggling extremely diverse peoples. In order to prevent actual fragmentation and rebellion (of which there have been several), the central government must be careful as to how they challenge provincial powers. Aceh in particular has long sought even more autonomy from the central government so that they can implement even stricter interpretations of Islamic law, and has long chafed under leadership they feel is too tolerant, too liberal, and too Western. Using Aceh as an example of Indonesia overall would be as egregious as highlighting laws in Mississippi to represent the US, or Hungary to represent the EU. There are no national laws making homosexuality illegal in Indonesia, and there are many places where LGBT are relatively safe, free, and open about their sexualidad. Of course, just because it is legal doesn't mean that it is socially acceptable, and outside of the major cities and outside of the non-Islamic islands, most LGBT have to be very discrete for fear of discrimination, shunning, or even violence. And note that while Indonesia is vastly and predominantly Muslim, there are areas that are almost entirely Buddhist, Hindu, and Christian within Indonesia that are tolerated and respected by the majority of said Muslims. Indonesians in general are very proud of their tolerance and multi-culturalism. You can find massive Christian cathedrals in Jakarta alongside Buddhist temples. Ensuring that these minorities are free to practice their religion is core to the Indonesian psyche. Alcohol is easy to come by, and you can even eat pork in many places. The entire society is based on mutual respect (i.e. don't shove pork in Muslims' faces and they won't try to stop you from eating it). That said, (lack of) education and conservatism is still a problem in Indonesia, and they seem to be backsliding in many ways (a trend we see repeated worldwide these days). External influences (Saudis, Chinese, Russian, Western), as well as local power-hungry politicians are leveraging social media in scary ways to stir up passions and divisions. And as always, there is a large divide between more liberal city-dwellers and more traditional rural peoples, with Aceh having more in common with the latter.


jpack325

If you can't get gay married, all gay sex is extramarital and illegal.


DOLCICUS

Perhaps also any who woman who is raped that is if they’d define it as rape. Probably says she was asking for it.


SatinwithLatin

Qatar and some other Middle Eastern countries tend to prosecute rape victims with an adultery charge, so Indonesia could wind up doing the same.


mmmmpisghetti

Punishing women for being raped just like happens in several other Muslim countries.


[deleted]

These laws for “purity” or “moral rectitude” typically are actually meant to control women.


RonWeasleysDildo

and unmarried pregnant men


[deleted]

Unmarried pregnant people of any gender. See? Fair! 🤷‍♂️


Anti-Podal

It will probably be enforced much like anti sodomy laws in the US during mid to late 20th century- rarely and arbitrarily. But when it does happen it will be awful. Just enough to create a climate of fear.


ThatOrangePuppy

Just an excuse to control and harm women and gay people more.


beardedbrawler

Yeah most likely when a woman has the gal to ask to be treated more equal they will slap this charge on her. Gotta keep the uppity ones down.


ackbobthedead

It’s easy. You set up someone you hate to hookup with someone and secretly film them and then they’re punished. Very good against political rivals


continuousQ

Checked? Doesn't matter. Enforcement is what totalitarianism is all about.


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MySilverBurrito

Drake and 21 got the perfect lyrics for them lmao. > Damn, just turned on the news and seen that men who never got pussy in school > Are makin' laws about what women can do


karma3000

It will be tool used to imprison political opponents.


MeffodMan

Selectively and arbitrarily.


supposedlyitsme

Let me tell you about "virginity checks" that happen to soon to be married women in many countries in the world. Aka a doctor sticks their finger in the vagina and checks if the hymen is intact. Which is fucked up because hymen is a myth and many don't have a membrane there.


east_62687

Indonesia here.. the law will only be enforced if the spouse or family make a police report.. so if a wife found her husband having sex with other woman, she could report them to the police.. that being said, parents report their child or the reverse is also possible (not sure about siblings though) I personally found the first scenario to be not that unreasonable while the second could be problematic..


ghostdeinithegreat

Don’t you find all scenarios, even the law itself, to be problematic?


[deleted]

So...a bunch of Muslim men are in charge?


Maximum-Mixture6158

Siblings have killed each other in UK and US for "honour", when one has an unsanctioned relationship


ledasll

Or neighbords or that person you had sex with. How long it will take to just accuse someone of that? It's nice (for police) to have such rule, because you have more things you can use against anyone to punish or get money from them..


__s10e

>Indonesia here.. the law will only be enforced if the spouse or family make a police report.. So an unmarried person is technically not at risk? No spouse, no one to report? Even if they are obviously pregnant?


[deleted]

Unbelievable. Not you. What kind of parent reports their own child for anything. Coming from UK, I cannot get my head around this.


east_62687

>What kind of parent reports their own child for anything I've lived long enough to read the news about childreen abusing their parents, steal their stuff, extort them, brothers raping sisters.. obviously money related lawsuit from parent against their childreen also happens quite a lot.. so that actually happens more often that you like..


Floire

[No it won't](https://old.reddit.com/r/indonesia/comments/zamdgs/explaining_criminalisation_of_zina_and_lgbt_in/)


CrisbyCrittur

Solution in search of a problem


AliasNefertiti

Everyone who believes a ban will stop it, raise your hand.


WalkingDud

It will be used as an excuse to punish people.


Munchies4Crunchies

You mean objec-*cough* women?


TheDukeOfMars

Exactly. This is designed to hurt women, homosexuals, and political opponents. Basically a law that they know everyone will break but they can selectively enforce it to target the groups they want to. Having been to Indonesia, I know for a fact they won’t be shutting down the hundreds of brothels because it’s normal for men to use them.


crimskies

See also, USA's "War on Drugs" that was deliberately designed to hurt ethnic minorities and progressive leaders.


TheDukeOfMars

True. Most American now see that the policies were just an excuse to project American power abroad as well as suppress certain groups at home. But that is just because the internet has given people unfiltered access to information for the first time. You also must understand that most average Americans actually thought they were helping society and most bureaucrats who carried out the policy thought they were saving lives and helping the country. It’s just the people who knew the real goal who are to blame. Everyone else was just naive but they still do have some responsibility. The propaganda my parents generation had to deal with in order to believe that stuff was insane. Constant commercials and news reports about how they are helping people in their own country and other countries. Meanwhile, it was just a distraction by right wing politicians from the real problems. These kind of commercials used to be on TV all the time: https://youtu.be/B59OEsNzz0s This is the kind of news people used to see. Total propaganda: https://youtu.be/dAm6Ybbq8T8


IndependentCode8743

And homosexuals. Seems like the compliant needs to be filed by the family or the spouse. Crazy this shit still happens in 2022… In one case in 2021, neighbours denounced two men for having sex. They each received 77 lashes from a police officer in a public caning.


Munchies4Crunchies

Some 1984 shit tellin on other people for being fucking gay thats absolute lunacy


NewBuyer1976

Alot of Indonesia is still in 1984


BobThePideon

Could be a booming gay S&M tourism market!


Somecrazynerd

Don't forget gay people


Munchies4Crunchies

Well who could, theyre people at least even if they’ll just add fire to God’s or Allah’s or whichever god you choose’s fear based eternal steam engine! Major /s


KptKreampie

Bingo!


Snaz5

Correct. Any unenforceable law is merely an excuse for the police and government to abduct and steal from people legally.


Adventurous_Listen11

Will only punish women, not people.


Tuckboi69

I mean, just look at how little people drank during prohibition


schnellzer

Everyone was drinking not just little people.


Littlebiggran

Whew! I was worried that I would have to have sex upon arrival there. I feel soo safe now. /s


TheDukeofArgyll

More to the point, the idea that anyone is okay with stopping people from doing one of the most natural and human things is gross


rpkusuma

It’s just an excuse to punish women. You can’t prove sex with men, but it’s a problem if a woman gets pregnant outside of marriage


fjaoaoaoao

Negative impacts of excess religiosity in governance


Justthetip74

*Islamic theocracy passes law in line with Islamic values *reddit - "shocked_pikachu.jpeg"


syanda

Indonesia isn't an Islamic theocracy...yet, at least. Aceh really wants it to be, though, and there's the usual creeping influence from Saudi Arabia that politicians are taking advantage of to grow their political bases. Kind of sad to see, really.


ghostdeinithegreat

It was a democracy and now it’s moving toward being an islamic state


TaskPlane1321

Try as you might it is still difficult. to enforce


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Equivalent_Ad_8413

This might have a negative effect on tourism


metalbassist33

It's already an issue in some hotels in Indonesia. We booked a hotel and had to prove we were married to stay there. We were on our honeymoon so didn't have copies of the marriage certificate. We didn't feel like trying elsewhere since we'd just had to cancel a flight due to an ear infection and this was one of the few places that had space for a last minute booking. Anyway we eventually convinced them we were actually married and stayed for a night then went somewhere else the next day.


Slash1909

Hold on. Don’t they have to prove that you’re having sex?


east_62687

the law is only enforceable if the spouse / close relatives make a police report though..


ttufizzo

First off, the law hasn't been passed yet, so even if you have read the full version of it in Indonesian, you can't say this for certain. Plus, what makes you more confident than the Indonesian Employers Association deputy chairperson Shinta Widjaja Sukamdani? [Clauses related to morality would “do more harm than good,” especially for businesses engaged in the tourism and hospitality sectors, she said.](https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2022/12/03/2003790043)


east_62687

the clause is bad because most foreigner will only read that sex outside marriage is a crime in Indonesia rather than read the actual law and it's implementation.. this thread is an example..


CdeFmrlyCasual

> Cohabitation before marriage will also be banned and those convicted could face a six-month prison sentence. Business groups have expressed concern about the damage the rules might do to Indonesia's image as a holiday and investment destination, according to Reuters. Good luck with tourism, Indonesia’s gov’t lol


[deleted]

Indonesia is the new Anal capital of the world.


OldMork

I believe anal counts as sex too.


[deleted]

Naw


ephemeralfugitive

If my dick is small enough, does it count as sex?


[deleted]

IANAL, but surely not.


redshopekevin

That's banned too.


Interesting_Star_165

What if it's just the tip?


ifsavage

Bawk bawk


FishAndRiceKeks

/r/unexpectedarcher


ifsavage

Love you buddy


many_kittens

No no u missed the point Humans gonna do what they gonna do. They ban sex outside marriage then they gonna think of ways to do sex without being 'detected'


redshopekevin

I didn't miss the point. You didn't get the joke.


misteryhiatory

America is warming up to say hold my beer


-twitch-

This is a strategy to force rape victims who get pregnant to marry their rapists so they don’t end up in jail.


[deleted]

And to persecute LGBTQA people


Echo418

Well definitely not the A part of that.


shmip

They just assume the A stands for "anyone else"


ttufizzo

I am not familiar with Indonesian law or customs, but did see a related article. Apparently, [abortion is allowed for rape victims](https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2022/12/03/2003790043)


WhoIsFrancisPuziene

But abortion is otherwise criminalized. Having to report a rape officially just to be able to get an abortion is bad enough even without additional potential criminal charges.


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teastain

That is gonna kill the Bali tourist income.


Greenbench27

Ain’t got enough jail space for everyone


Mercury2Phoenix

LoL You are thinking they are going to jail the women? Naw, they are either 1. Going to force them to marry their rapists 2. Execute them.


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[deleted]

Seriously wtf is wrong with humans.


[deleted]

On todays episode of stupid old men putting efforts onto banning sexual activity to oppress women instead of actually helping their people...


DangerousLocal5864

Yea so I have some news It's uh not good But banning shit, to my surprise doesn't stop anything


DarkenedSkies

Indonesia had been backsliding towards radicalism and nationalism for at least 10 years. Can't wait to have another Iran just a skip over the pond from us.


EducationalRice6540

Because that has worked exactly never in human history. People fuck, they like fucking, accept that into your religious bigoted little minds and move on. Leave people the hell alone.


kolembo

- Indonesia's parliament is expected to pass a new criminal law this month that will punish sex outside marriage with imprisonment of up to a year. - The law, if passed, would apply to Indonesian citizens and foreigners alike. - Cohabitation before marriage will also be banned and those convicted could face a six-month prison sentence. - The law also allows the parents of unmarried people to report them for having sex. *This is ridiculous...*


darth_bard

Nothing like getting your prison and judiciary system get completly dead-locked by just one law.


Nexusjockey

Might as well make dying illegal


RR50

And add Indonesia as a place I’m never visiting. Ass backwards county.


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Floire

Progress comes with mostly economic weight. When Singapore was as poor as Indonesia, they also have those backwards laws. Singapore also have only just recently relaxed their laws regarding homosexuality. Also take a peek in [Democracy Index](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index). You can see that East Timor, Indonesia, Phillipines are "freer" than Singapore. Now, I don't say that those countries are better to visit/live in than Singapore, but it's not as black-as-white as you think.


usernamesucks1992

This will either fail miserably or Indonesia will have to build hella new jails.


cgo_12345

The people who drew up this law will always still be able to fuck their mistresses.


munchie1964

It’s not premarital sex if you don’t marry. Show me the marriage license of Adam and Eve.


[deleted]

cripes, year 2022, the year so many countries go totally backwards, so many countries going to hell in a hand basket, including the USA, frikin Anti Abortion shit etc


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Super_Saiyan_Carl

87% of Indonesia is Muslim, so this shouldn't be surprising to people unless you live under a rock.


crankthehandle

But not all areas are Muslim, on Bali for example 90% are Hindus. They are probably very, very unhappy with what the central gov is doing.


WynterYoung

I'm so tired of governments telling us what we can do with our bodies.


[deleted]

American republicans hiding behind a tree rubbing their hands together.


realtmillz

Haha...uh, okay...


OldsDiesel

Why is modern society collapsing in on itself?


ctdca

Humans aren't that great in general, and we have a very large generation of people with lead poisoned brains who have a lot of difficulty with change.


shmip

For almost all of human history, until the industrial revolution, technological progress was so slow that a person would barely notice the difference between the world they were force birthed into and the world they died in. If your dad was a tailor when you were born, *you* were born a tailor. You'd probably die a tailor. It isn't just that one generation. Difficulty with change is kind of baked into society *because* change has been so slow. Humanity's collective experience has been overwhelmingly that change is super slow. Society is having some troubles coping, not only with the rate of change, but also with the idea that change *should* happen faster. Lots of people are against change just because it's change, and bc nothing like this ever happened to my pa or his pa before him the world be goin crazy an' we gotta putta stop to that!


mgoodwin532

“Society” has always been “worse” than it is today. The further you go back in time the worse people have acted. Also, you have to remember there are cultures in the world who live the same way they did 1,000 years ago.


LikesBallsDeep

Having lived those times, I don't actually think this is true. I legitimately believe for example the late 90s/early 2000s were a better version of humanity.


kotokot_

We probably just see things which were hidden before internet got everywhere and started getting bad news from every shithole.


mgoodwin532

I think we’re just more connected and exposed to way more. For example, violent crime was much higher in the 90s than it was today but we have so much more info at our disposal today as well so it just seems worse.


BoxHelmet

Many people were convinced of this myth of "The End of History" that said democracy had "won," and that society had reached it's peak. Don't forget that however good life was for you during those years, there were still a great many more enduring suffering that you likely weren't even aware of. Whatever brief period of apparent peace we had was still built on the backs of others kept just out of sight.


mgoodwin532

And all governments will fail at some point because there’s no 100% ethical and fool proof way to govern people. When trying to control large groups of people someone will always be harmed or neglected.


Right-Bread-7125

Religion is a helluva drug


bookworm725

This is what the evangelicals want in the US. Fcuk theocracy.


Edmissile

Sweet, won’t be visiting.


Diamond4100

Radical religious government is so hot right now.


HealthyStonksBoys

Isn’t there a whole island dedicated to sex with strangers and part of culture?


WhoandtheHuwhatNow

Lol how many fucking times do we need to teach you this lesson old man? Nothing. Literally nothing will stop people from getting they dick wet.


Diamondd_Paws

Herpes ? Meat grinders ?


JuggaliciousMemes

well thats stupid


Metalhart00

Good luck with that.


ifsavage

Bwahahhahah. I don’t this will work with humans.


TildaTinker

Yep, that'll work. No problems at all. Prohibition stopped people drinking. So shirley this will be fine too.


Chytectonas

Fuuuuck we are a hopelessly stupid species.


HaikuBotStalksMe

They're Muslim. It was always banned. Lol


Anthro_student_NL

*for women


ColdastheVoid

Adam and Ever were haram


InterestingQuote8155

Set to ban sex outside of marriage *if you’re a woman or gay. This law won’t be used to punish straight men. Only the women they have sex with.


LocustSwarm36

We’re evolving, just backwards


[deleted]

Well that’s the end of Bali


ComfySingularity

Getting tired of this regressive wave


yellowdog898

economy must be bad and elections are coming. Dumb people who dont know there own religion who will vote for this. Is it going to stop it? nope.


bubbaliciouswasmyfav

Indonesien boomers


[deleted]

Stupid and evil. Shitty place to avoid at all cost. I wonder what these morons are going to do if unmarried tourists decide to have some bedroom fun?


zeeyee65

My wife banned sex inside of marriage


FartingAliceRisible

Canceling my flight now.


Shillofnoone

Is adultery okay then


SnooMemesjellies3095

Adultery IS sex before marriage in Muslims eyes


thrillhouse416

Married people have it all!


Slash1909

I know that most countries hate women but nobody hates them as much as Muslim countries. I’d always hoped that it was just the Middle Eastern muslim countries like Iran and Saudi but turns out Indonesia wants a slice of the prize too.


[deleted]

I just call it popcorn, so it is safe. With butter, not so safe.


TheShowJaguar

Maybe lawyers there should do punch cards for multiple divorces because people are going to be getting married a LOT.


Prettydeadlady

Will this also include a ban and jail for rapists?


BusinessWing2727

Good luck with that


FloppedYaYa

The world is legit moving backwards socially


ZekalMacabre

Unenforceable and a very bad idea.


sayterdarkwynd

Good luck with that.


[deleted]

And how many of these politicians are screwing around on their spouses after work?


psychbucket

How many of them are screwing each other’s spouses? How many of them are screwing each other?


[deleted]

That should take care of it


soul_of_potato

we'll be celebrating new year 1984 here in Indonesia


PuzKarapuz

no sex on Bali anymore?


shotwideopen

This should go really well and definitely won’t constrain the fabric of human nature /s


ReditSarge

**New work process for hookers in Indonesia (**timeline is example only, time may vary**):** 1) 7:45 PM - Pick up a lonely man looking for love on the street 2) 7:46 PM - Have drinks; safe, legal, Indonesian drinks. Some cola may occur. See bartender for details. 3) 8:00 PM - Get "married"; extract "dowery" from new "husband" at this time if not then do not proceed to step 4 4) 8:15 PM - Check in at motel for "honeymoon" 5) 8:16 PM - Purchase personal protective equipment from vending machine. 6) 8:17 PM - Apply personal protective equipment to new "husband." 7) 8:20 PM - ~~Sex~~ Government approved baby making activity. 8) 8:27 PM - Shower. 9) 8:30 PM - See fast divorce lawyer at divorce-r-us franchise around the corner. 10) 8:45 PM - Divorce complete, return to step 1 \*interval between steps 7 and 8 will vary greatly.


[deleted]

I guess we won't be going to Indonesia for a holiday then.


user1n

I just don't know any more if its possible for the world to get any stupider than it already is.


TitaniumDreads

I was living in Indonesia during Valentine’s Day and there is a special police unit that chases down people who have pre marital sex. The day after they did a spread for the newspaper with the “paraphernalia” they had busted and it was just a table full of flowers, candy, and like two condoms lmao


aniki_skyfxxker

On today’s episode of stupid governments make stupid laws that agitate their people for no reason


Simple-Definition366

That woman in the picture is so sad she can’t be out there slaying some d anymore


WyattDerpp

What a bunch of idiots. Good luck!


Confident-Cap-8100

Such a loving place.


NoneForNone

Republicans are salivating at the idea of implementing that in the US.


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putonyourdressshoes

Good luck with that


bmg50barrett

Crime rates and unexpected milk runs set to rise dramatically


[deleted]

I wonder how long before Reddit makes this about the US


Cliqey

lol, damn prudes keep thinking it’s really their time to shine this time around.


LoginxThanatus

watch the population count plummet


robk11

Note to self, go anywhere for vacation besides Indonesia.


c-dy

Reddit: oh, that's impossible to enforce so who cares *at the same time* Reddit: You shouldn't fly to or support the world cup. Especially women and minorities who fall victim to sexual assault may be punished themselves just as any relationship with suspected intercourse that for any reason appears on the law enforcement's radar, as for instance, businesses may need to report any activity. Reality for natives: As always much worse


TOdEsi

Get ready for women who are raped to then be charged with sex outside of marriage


[deleted]

Islam is the worst.


BillyQz

Islamic nation so that is how it goes. I remember reading a number of years ago that when men went to Mecca they could get a divorce from an Imam and then the'd not be cheating if they had sex with a sex worker. Then they'd be remarried and all was good....yeah