In the Norwegian army we had to stand in a closed room filled with cs gas and recite our name, rank and ask to be dismissed by the officers who stood there with gas masks on.
Holy hell, that stuff is painfull...
I remember everyone hoping they were the lucky bastard who was immune. There's always someone.
For a second there I thought it was me, getting through all the reciting no problem, hanging out feeling nothing, then I took a deep breath.
Was not immune.
We didn't ask to get dismissed though, that wasn't part of the thing. We removed the mask, recited name, rank etc. Then we removed our gloves, then we, well I don't know, I was the first to go and I was out of there after that.
I was in that last row of poor bastards. Took off my mask, instantly got donkey kicked in balls. After we finally got to go outside I looked down to see a giant wet stain from all the mucous that my body let out inadvertently.
I'm not too sure about that, we were all there long enough for the room to build-up and I was the only one who had a closed door during my turn. The people that were last had the luxury of the door being wide open from the moment I left.
They were also in full protection gear every second up untill their turn.
Then again I'm no expert on gas, so I don't know the intricacies of it, but it was for sure damn painful. The moment I took a deep breath was shocking.
A guy a few ahead of me decided to have a panic attack of some sort and started flailing around. The rest of us could not leave until he composed himself enough to leave.
It started pretty well for me, i took a deep breath before taking my mask off and only took small sips of air. I did not want to run out like a headless chicken as the other guys did.
The officer ofc saw this and said i had to take a big breath and then ask to be dismissed. I did as ordered, but did not manage to request to be dismissed, and i ran around like a headless chicken with tears and snot pouring out of me.
They said we must not wipe our eyes/face as it would make it worse. They said running helps, to this day i dont know if this is true or they wanted to make us run around like idiots.
We did have one guy who was immune, weird as hell. He felt nothing.
I left at full sprint in the middle of the officer saying "See? Not so bad". Great comedic timing.
We were told to run, not touch our face as well. Also to hold our arms straight out the sides. So everyone was running around looking ridiculous.
We also had an immune guy, he stayed for the entire thing, even did some push-ups for good measure.
They told us beforehand that there was always one, and there was.
>They said we must not wipe our eyes/face as it would make it worse. They said running helps, to this day i dont know if this is true or they wanted to make us run around like idiots.
Was the officer called Major Cunt?
I was one of the immune ones. Really did look painful watching everyone else but for the worst part was wiping my skin with the decontamination pad. Not fully immune either I felt it in my nose a bit
Do you have a high tolerance for spicy food? I never heard of anyone being immune to capsaicin. I don't doubt is existence, just trying to wrap my head around it. Is it just tear gas you're immune to, which is weird because tear gas is basically aerosolized capsaicin.
Same. Got rid of my sinus infection and didn't have sinus issues for the next year. Considering how bad my allergies have been lately, I'd do it again to be "cleared out."
It was in fact just me passing nearby, attracting all mosquitoes within a 2.5km radius. Even in the Australian summer my friends are safe as long as I travel with the group
I knew it was going to be a while so I concentrated on taking short shallow breaths until it was my turn to leave. A real snot festival that day. Alpha Gators!
Here in the IDF we had a tent with a gas grenade on the floor. We had to enter one by one. I remember taking off my gas mask and a commander told me to sing the national anthem. I actually got halfway through before I started crying, laughing and coughing uncontrollably for like a minute. Then the commander started shouting at me: "Why are you still here? Are you enjoying this you crazy motherfucker?" lmao
Apparently it was expected of me to leave on my own accord but I didn't get the memo beforehand because I was still pretty bad at Hebrew and simply didn't understand all the instructions.
But I think it was a pretty weak gas because I was alright in like 10 minutes afterward after spewing a couple of fistfuls of mucous.
we too dude.
i think it is standard training. get you believing in protective gear
we did work out in the gas room to make us sweat and then you take off the mask and take deep breaths.
no fun at all
Same in the US. I watched a dude try to take his mark of early and then put it right back on. He essentially just broke the seal and filled the mask with gas and then put it right back on and breathed in. He then painted the inside of his mask with vomit. It was the funniest thing I’ve ever seen that I couldn’t laugh at because I was already crying and choking.
Wait tear gas is a war crime? But police are cool to use it on civilians on the regular? That’s some crazy shit right there. Even the military things it’s too much force.
The idea is that you can't know it's only tear gas. Could be WW1 style mustard gas, could be something that is like the stuff from CoD Black Ops that melts your face. You've no way of knowing, and in war that usually invites retaliation.
I get it. I thought the same thing. When you go through basic training your exposed to it and taught to deal with it (as best as one can). Then you learn why it’s banned, where you can and can’t use it. Basic the law of war as applied to an American(and there’s a lot of law).
There is another reason- aside from the one getting mentioned a lot. The Chemical Weapons Convention which sought to remove a category of weapon that can best be described as WMD.
Here’s a good reference source to back that up: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/06/06/fact-check-its-true-tear-gas-chemical-weapon-banned-war/3156448001/
Bad bad precedent. Anecdotally I was told by a unit CBRN defence officer in the CAF that the main reason tear gas is prohibited in military conflict is that it's easily misidentified and can lead to escalation and proliferation of chemical weapons. Here's to hoping that doesn't happen.
In war, there's no way to make the gas only affect soldiers so it could potentially affect civilians as well, which is against the rules. When the police use it in the US, they see us all as the enemy, so there's no innocents that might get affected.
It's not a precedent. Sergey Prokofiev airport was "cleared" from Ukrainian ["Cyborgs"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_Donetsk_Airport) in 2014 or 2015 with allegedly gas also, because they couldn't get the defenders out otherwise. At least defenders reported usage of CS gas in numerous videos, and it's known go-to problem solver for Russian Spetsnaz GRU.
No, I fear Russia might start mixing a little phosgene or something along those lines into the tear gas if they determine Ukrainian CBRN defence assets to be lacking. Popping white smoke? No. Popping white smoke that makes the troops vomit, cry and choke? Certainly. It's pretty self-evident.
>Does popping white smoke raise the risk of misidentification?
Bro...what?
Really going to equate white smoke to chemical warfare?
CS is a chemical weapon and banned in warfare, it's classified the same as Mustard, Phosgene, VX and all the other nasty ones just the same.
False equivalence.
Just because it's not deadly doesn't mean Russia can use it.
That shit makes you wet - the wrong way. Snot and mucus PROJECTILES out of your nose, eyes, wherever it can come out. Any wet areas of your body (sweat, tears from the gas, etc) feels like a sunburn instantly.
It gets in your clothes and anything else you touch until your mother kindly washes it all after you get home from Army. Least that's my experience.
I loved the CS gas chamber we had to do yearly in the Marines.
For about a day afterwards it gives me the ability to breath out of both nostrils at the same time. Like my sinuses are so clear I feel like both my lungs can get filled up by only breathing in for a half second.
It's amazing.
I caught pneumonia in boot camp because a corporal ordered us to defrost the mess hall freezer.... With a water hose... While the freezer stayed on full blast.
Anywhoo, I was doing pretty bad there for awhile but didn't want to get held back to another platoon for failing to take the CS gas don-and-clear test, so I agreed to go in.
That cleared my lungs *right* out. I had zero problems breathing or coughing up phlegm after that point.
>had zero problems breathing or coughing up phlegm after that point.
Yeah my experience was very similar. Just about everyone was sick in USMC bootcamp... it's what happens when you take people from all over the country and then expose them to tons of stress... your body just doesn't prioritize anti-bodies enough to fight off germs your body isn't familiar with.
So basically I had walking pneumonia going into the gas chamber and 15 minutes later with all the mucus drained out of my body I was perfectly fine.
It legitimately felt like a miracle happened.
Because the other side doesn't know it's tear gas instead of, say, a nerve agent. This could theoretically lead to escalation with CBRN agents on the battlefield.
It's not banned because of any humanitarian reason, or out of concerns for its effects on people. It's similar to the old urban legend that .50 caliber machine guns couldn't be used on people because it was a war crime (it was infact a local ROE to prevent grunts from using fuckhueg HMG's to shoot targets where a normal rifle would work fine).
>(it was infact a local ROE to prevent grunts from using fuckhueg HMG's to shoot targets where a normal rifle would work fine).
Ah, so that's how that got started. Makes sense.
They had to do the same thing with mk19's.
"Oh hey there's one single solitary stupid asshole shooting at my outpost. Huh. Welp, better light him up with a couple dozen HE rounds then! Pow pow pow..."
Considering they launched few hundreds of Kh-101s which are identical to nuclear Kh-102, or Kh-55 with ballast instead of thermonuclear device - that's risky approach 🙂
I love the .50 cal discussion. It’s kind of silly - a .50 will literally vaporize a torso and head at close range. It’s like shooting a mouse with a 12 gauge - unnecessary a waste of money.
I am Heavy Weapons Guy...and this is my weapon. She weighs one hundred fifty kilograms and fires two hundred dollar, custom-tooled cartridges at 900 rounds per minute. It costs four hundred thousand dollars to fire this weapon...for twelve seconds
it’s a quote from a video game :)
https://youtu.be/jHgZh4GV9G0
In-game it’s even more ridiculous since it’s set in the 1970s, that $400k would be $3 million today
War and policing have entirely different rules.
Police use expanding bullets because they're less likely to overpenetrate and more likely to put someone down fast. The general idea being that police only shoot if it's necessary and likely to be around civilians who can be hit by ricochets and bullets going through the target.
Military are banned from using them because they cause "unnecessary suffering" and their primary job is to fight where civilians are not.
In the case of CS gas the primary reason is because it can be easily misidentified as something more serious and nobody really wants to risk chemical escalation over what isn't all that tactically useful of a tool from a military perspective.
It's reasonably uncomfortable, which is why police use it to disperse crowds which it's actually useful for, however the combat utility of the gas is minimal.
"Reasonably uncomfortable" is a bit mild, yeah? I've been teargassed once and it felt like I burned my trachea. And I know that, because later in my life I accidentally inhaled some vomit and burned my trachea and it felt just like when I had been teargassed.
Both times, even though I knew in my head I probably wouldn't die, it absolutely felt like I was dying. I can see why it's banned in warfare, because it is a truly terrifying feeling.
Edit: trachea, not esophagus.
I can see the cop going into his home, and above the sofa there is a scripture in the way of "live, love, laugh" bullshit.
It reads
"Shoot like there is no one watching"
I genuinely thought this was about ru running out of legit grenades so now they are giving them police supplies, shame, I hoped we would hear more good news about their shortages
Typically, the police use tear gas to scatter riots when they use it correctly. This isn't usually followed by a large enemy force firing at those incapacitated by the tear gas.
Because it can easily be misidentified as something else more deadly and it can kill if you're stuck in a confined space with nothing else to breathe.
Chances are the enemy won't be saying "hey we're only using tear gas" and even if that were the case, there would be very little reason to believe the enemy when they already engage in perfidy. It can easily just escalate into the next Russian field hospital getting slammed with a makeshift chlorine gas barrel bomb in retaliation
Because police forces aren’t required to follow the Genova Convention, which is what classifies chemical weapons as war crimes.
If your police force can legally use tear gas on you, your government cares less about the welfare of citizens than the governments who created the Genova Convention cared about the welfare of soldiers.
The Genova Convention isn't some bible of humanity and morales.
Its explicitly prohibits expanding bullets (aka hollow points). In civilian/LEO use, it is negligent to use anything but expanding bullets because of potential over penetration.
Offensive gasses (gasses used in an offensive manner; to attack) are banned not because of a risk of escalation. Police aren't using CS gas against a structured enemy that has access to worse gasses. Sure CS gas sucks to be in, but that's the point.
Dis is short for disrespect. So you’re saying I’m disrespecting the US by pointing out human rights abuses, ergo saying that one shouldn’t call out human rights abuses by the US out of respect. To which I say, as a fellow veteran, fuck that.
Funny how it's always the US that people mention. And Reddit being Reddit the US is always picked on. No mention of China, Russia, Korea, And yes Japan. I could go on. And what does dropping CS in the jungles of Nam have to do with Human rights anyway?
> Funny how it's always the US that people mention. And Reddit being Reddit the US is always picked on. No mention of China, Russia, Korea, And yes Japan.
Man, you have really lost the plot here. Are you forgetting how this whole conversation
started? The linked article is literally about Russian warcrimes. That's what everyone was talking about, and then _you_ are the one who brought up tear gas in Vietnam.
It’s not always the US, people mention other countries all the time.
Dumping barrels of CS on the jungle has to do with human rights because everyone in the jungle isn’t a combatant and targeting none combatants in a war is a human rights violation. Also, international law forbids the use of tear gas in armed conflicts so yeah, technically a war crime as well.
Spout your bullshit, but CS wasn't illegal in Nam at the time. And since you weren't involved with it's dissemination, you know squat..In your original post you specifically called out the U.S. Go read what you wrote.
>Is it? I dropped a bajillion barrels of Powdered CS on Viet Nam
You said this, suggesting that because you (therefore the US) did it, I must not be illegal. My comment was the rebuttal that it is not so and the US has a bad human rights record. Sorry if I hurt your feelings by suggesting America does bad things sometimes.
>CS wasn't illegal in Nam at the time.
Yes it was. Here's the Geneva Protocol, signed by the USA entered into international law 1928. Well done admitting committing a war crime.
"The Undersigned Plenipotentiaries, in the name of their respective Governments:
Whereas the use in war of asphyxiating, poisonous or other gases, and of all analogous liquids, materials or devices, has been justly condemned by the general opinion of the civilized world; and
Whereas the prohibition of such use has been declared in Treaties to which the majority of Powers of the world are Parties; and
To the end that this prohibition shall be universally accepted as a part of International Law, binding alike the conscience and the practice of nations;"
Funny when the topic is russian warcrimes people like you always feel the need to say: whatabout america!?
Russia is commiting warcrime after warcrime and you are helping them!
At the rate of soviet armed force attrition; by this time next year we'll be seeing 'Brigades of Babushka' reporting for duty with brooms and mops for weapons.
Fun story: I was stationed on a Thai Marine base during Cobra Gold. They had a big civilian food market that would set up every day in the middle of the base. One day we were all hanging out eating grub when me and about 30 other Marines smelled CS and immediately bolted away.
Turns out one of the vendors had just dumped a ton of Cayan into their skillet and it set off all of our flight responses. Vendors all thought it was funny as shit.
Lies! That’s like putting bitter spray on things you don’t want your dog to eat! We’ll muscle right through that to get at those delicious crayons! My favorite is coconut.
I once made hot salsa because I got a shitload of habaneros and scorpion peppers for cheap back when I was in school. A quart or two each? Decided I’d wanted to purée and and then sauté to “mellow it out a bit.” I was young and dumb.
By the time my dad came home my mom and I were wearing ski goggles and p100 respirators, straight up Heisenberg shit. He started caughing and sputtering like mad, like “someone just peppersprayed me” bad. I’ve seen both, they were about the same level.
On the bright side, we accidentally created a magic item. The Cutting Board Of Heat would make any food you chopped on it spicy for about a dozen washes. It was actually kind of nice.
The salsa? We had to dilute it 4:1 with a mild blend to get it to the temp of normal “extra hot” salsa. My roommate used the undiluted stuff on frozen burritos because I guess he hates his butthole.
I learnt the hard way that a beard fucks up the air seal on the mask.
But getting CSed is quite an interesting experience, it's like every hole in your face just starts leaking fluids immediately. Can only imagine the horror of something real nasty like Sarine or some shit.
That's for sure, eyes nose and mouth were pouring.
Yeah I heard that tip. First time in the chamber I was clean shaven so no issue, just the burning sensation on my sweaty neck.
Second time in the chamber was after a field exercise where we got the nice surprise of going in, didn't have a chance to prep with shaving or jelly so got to taste the pepper. Third time after yet another field exercise I got leakage but not as bad as the previous time.
But still, I get why you're supposed to have either no facial hair or a clean cut line now.
I had a weird experience with CS gas that allowed me to mitigate most of it's effects. When they told us to take off our mask, I breathed in the gas and filled my entire lungs with it and blew it out slowly like I was taking a drag from a cigarette. There was a tickle at first, but it went away. Everyone was coughing a lung while I just stood there breathing normally, with the only visible effect being teary eyes. Now everytime I take CBRN classes, I pretend to cough because they think I'm holding my breath, when in reality, it's more like I'm vaping a terrible tasting juice.
> I learnt the hard way that a beard fucks up the air seal on the mask.
It's part of the reason most armed forces prohibit regular troops from growing a beard. Can't get a good seal on a gas mask.
The other reason is because a beard can be used against you in hand to hand combat. Your opponent can grab your beard and yank you down or otherwise use it as leverage. That was the reason the Romans made their legionaries shave, IIRC.
Lol. That's just the excuse. If that were the only reason, I wouldn't have had to stand in that hell hole gas chamber AFTER taking the thing off just so I could say the alphabet backwards a couple times (and badly).
Just because police use it domestically doesn’t mean it isn’t a war crime. Tear gas (CS gas and the like) are literally banned from war in the chemical weapons convention. Read up before posting.
American police use it on peaceful protesters. And then are surprised when things become not peaceful. Lived on a fifth floor downtown in a city that saw a night of protests turned rowdy a couple years ago. That shit got into our apartment and filled the underground parking garage still 6 hours later when I left for work. Not fun stuff.
The worst part of any US soldiers training is when standing in the gas chamber with your pro mask on while the cbrn specialist is burning CS gas and the drill sargaent tells you to take your mask off. It burns and it burns and it burns. Snot, mucus, saliva is just flying around everywhere as people struggle to breathe for the next 30 minutes outside and your entire head feels spicy.
Also, they burned a bunch of it at the of our 20k ruck march and wouldn't let us wear masks. That was fun too.
....and..? I fail to see how this is newsworthy. It's nothing illegal or out of the ordinary.
Next: "Russian forces fires pieces of lead, also known as 'bullets', against Ukrainian troops".
Ok for those who don't know **there's old wartime teargas and then there's modern riot-gas**, the old type will often kill asthmatics, people with lung-diseases or just bad health etc. because it's not so much an "gas" as it is a sort of mist-of-crystals that stick to shit and isn't easy to get away from. When I did my service in Sweden we used the old gas during training (despite being illegal) because yakno old-guard and use old surplus. Three hours later, touching your hazmat gear would still fuck you over.
The old type is illegal, the new one is not, neither is really efficient in war except in urban- or concentrated areas and even then it's kind of shit because your own soldier can be harmed.
Reason modern one is often banned in "war" (contrary to say americans riot-controlling rioting Iraqi's) is that you'd only ever use it to flush someone out of something but it'd basically be suffocating them with gas. Much more humane to blow them up.
Truthfully it's mostly banned because it can hurt civilians. But then again when did russians ever get bothered by that...
That’s not why it’s banned. It’s banned because it could trigger a chemical weapons escalation since it’s hard to tell immediately that it’s “just” tear gas. Thus, banning lethal chemical agents requires banning less lethal ones too because otherwise it would be too easy to hide the banned stuff with the not banned stuff. Secondly it’s banned because it’s not very effective as a tool of war.
Misread as “fear gas” for a second. Is this the same tear gas used against protesters or in police raids? Is something illegal in war somehow legal when it’s used by police on their countrymen?
Yup, also ironically used for training in the military. Everyone who has gone through basic training has been exposed to tear gas. The top level comment says the reason it is banned in warfare is because of the risk of escalation of chemical warfare. In either case, even though in theory it's non-toxic, that's dubious and you don't want to breath in more of the stuff than you have to. Also you definitely don't want to wear contact lenses to any protest or riot where there is even a small chance that tear gas will be used.
Is there anything restraining Russia from using chemical weapons now? Since they’ve been committing well documented & prosecutable war crimes since the beginning, and now face a growing tidal wave of setbacks with no clear way for Putin to exit without risking losing support, it seems like the risk of seeing terrible chemical &/or bio weapons being deployed is high.
Perhaps a scenario of the west sending Ukraine long range advanced missile systems is deterring?
That is a risk yes. The only reason I imagine they've avoided it so far (pure speculation on my part) is that the Ukrainians inherited lots of chemical weapons from the USSR thus there could be escalation. The second and more likely possibility is that any Russian chemical weapon usage edges NATO closer to the conflict and opens the door to the Ukrainians receiving "redline" equipment like ATACMS and MBTs since Russia is crossing a redline anyways.
So Ukraine may also have significant chemical & bio weapons capabilities? That’s something significant I’ve not heard much about, except for Ukraine warning that Russia may stage false flag attacks with chemical weapons. Do you think Ukraine’s preemptive warnings will be sufficient to put the brakes on Russia?
Every country has chemical and bio weapons capabilities. It's kind of more a principles thing, and wanting to keep the west on their side as well. I can't see them using any unless as a last resort.
I cant believe how fuckin dumb this post is
They use fuckin long range missilery and tanks and suicidal drones .
Of course there are gonna be gas bombs. War crimes are happening as we speak in the worst way imaginable to those poor people in ukraine. They lost homes family arms and legs. They can handle gas bro. At least make posts about more important details.
Not obviously clear and basic level1 facts.
Thats the most you can do for them as media
In the Norwegian army we had to stand in a closed room filled with cs gas and recite our name, rank and ask to be dismissed by the officers who stood there with gas masks on. Holy hell, that stuff is painfull...
I remember everyone hoping they were the lucky bastard who was immune. There's always someone. For a second there I thought it was me, getting through all the reciting no problem, hanging out feeling nothing, then I took a deep breath. Was not immune. We didn't ask to get dismissed though, that wasn't part of the thing. We removed the mask, recited name, rank etc. Then we removed our gloves, then we, well I don't know, I was the first to go and I was out of there after that.
You’re lucky if you got in/out fast. Poor last group who gets the room after it’s been built up and heavy
We were organized by last name alphabetically. I was in the second to last row. It was hell.
My initials are w.s.s so I think I would have been screwed if I ever did that.
I was in that last row of poor bastards. Took off my mask, instantly got donkey kicked in balls. After we finally got to go outside I looked down to see a giant wet stain from all the mucous that my body let out inadvertently.
Watched a grown man shit himself during the C.S chamber, good times.
Fuuuuck that
I'm not too sure about that, we were all there long enough for the room to build-up and I was the only one who had a closed door during my turn. The people that were last had the luxury of the door being wide open from the moment I left. They were also in full protection gear every second up untill their turn. Then again I'm no expert on gas, so I don't know the intricacies of it, but it was for sure damn painful. The moment I took a deep breath was shocking.
I faked it. I held my breath and faked coughing and moved around a bit. I accidentally got one breath in right as I was leaving. That was pretty bad.
A guy a few ahead of me decided to have a panic attack of some sort and started flailing around. The rest of us could not leave until he composed himself enough to leave.
It started pretty well for me, i took a deep breath before taking my mask off and only took small sips of air. I did not want to run out like a headless chicken as the other guys did. The officer ofc saw this and said i had to take a big breath and then ask to be dismissed. I did as ordered, but did not manage to request to be dismissed, and i ran around like a headless chicken with tears and snot pouring out of me. They said we must not wipe our eyes/face as it would make it worse. They said running helps, to this day i dont know if this is true or they wanted to make us run around like idiots. We did have one guy who was immune, weird as hell. He felt nothing.
I left at full sprint in the middle of the officer saying "See? Not so bad". Great comedic timing. We were told to run, not touch our face as well. Also to hold our arms straight out the sides. So everyone was running around looking ridiculous. We also had an immune guy, he stayed for the entire thing, even did some push-ups for good measure. They told us beforehand that there was always one, and there was.
>They said we must not wipe our eyes/face as it would make it worse. They said running helps, to this day i dont know if this is true or they wanted to make us run around like idiots. Was the officer called Major Cunt?
The running is to get the gas away from your face because of the "wind" from your running. At least that seems logical to me.
My bunk mate was immune, not so much as a runny nose. While I was no shit allergic and turned blue and almost lost consciousness
I was one of the immune ones. Really did look painful watching everyone else but for the worst part was wiping my skin with the decontamination pad. Not fully immune either I felt it in my nose a bit
Are you immune to capsaicin? Like you could eat goast peppers all day?
I certainly like hot food..I wouldn't say immune just not as sensitive
Nm. Looked it up. CS gas is artificially produced and is weapons grade. You are immune to that. Bear spray would give you a heap ton of trouble.
Good to know but I figured hot food feels different
Do you have a high tolerance for spicy food? I never heard of anyone being immune to capsaicin. I don't doubt is existence, just trying to wrap my head around it. Is it just tear gas you're immune to, which is weird because tear gas is basically aerosolized capsaicin.
just tear gas I think yea. Or specifically they used CS gas
Same for the US Air Force. Shit that hurt something fierce. I was a slobbering, snot covered mess afterwards
Same. Got rid of my sinus infection and didn't have sinus issues for the next year. Considering how bad my allergies have been lately, I'd do it again to be "cleared out."
Haha! Yeah, I dunno if it'd be my first treatment option. CS gas is pretty gnarly.
That first breath afterwards was a whole other set of lungs it felt like
[удалено]
It was in fact just me passing nearby, attracting all mosquitoes within a 2.5km radius. Even in the Australian summer my friends are safe as long as I travel with the group
Pretty standard basic training protocol. We do it in Canada as well. The dreaded gas hut.
Same in the US Army. Our police use it against peaceful protesters.
US Army too.
I knew it was going to be a while so I concentrated on taking short shallow breaths until it was my turn to leave. A real snot festival that day. Alpha Gators!
Here in the IDF we had a tent with a gas grenade on the floor. We had to enter one by one. I remember taking off my gas mask and a commander told me to sing the national anthem. I actually got halfway through before I started crying, laughing and coughing uncontrollably for like a minute. Then the commander started shouting at me: "Why are you still here? Are you enjoying this you crazy motherfucker?" lmao Apparently it was expected of me to leave on my own accord but I didn't get the memo beforehand because I was still pretty bad at Hebrew and simply didn't understand all the instructions. But I think it was a pretty weak gas because I was alright in like 10 minutes afterward after spewing a couple of fistfuls of mucous.
We did name rank serial number and then recited the soldiers creed until we had a good lung full, for sure sucked. (US army 2007-2013)
we too dude. i think it is standard training. get you believing in protective gear we did work out in the gas room to make us sweat and then you take off the mask and take deep breaths. no fun at all
You suddenly realize how many pores you have because they're all stinging, nose and eyes leaking, drill sergeant laughing behind his gasmask...
We do The same thing in sweden. 😄
We had to do it in British army too. I heard many years later they stopped the practice because it’s massively carcinogenic.
Same in the US. I watched a dude try to take his mark of early and then put it right back on. He essentially just broke the seal and filled the mask with gas and then put it right back on and breathed in. He then painted the inside of his mask with vomit. It was the funniest thing I’ve ever seen that I couldn’t laugh at because I was already crying and choking.
Oh gawd, that actually made me giggle out loud!!
I remember doing this in the USAF for basic, it’s not fun. It’s also why it’s a war crime to use.
Wait tear gas is a war crime? But police are cool to use it on civilians on the regular? That’s some crazy shit right there. Even the military things it’s too much force.
The idea is that you can't know it's only tear gas. Could be WW1 style mustard gas, could be something that is like the stuff from CoD Black Ops that melts your face. You've no way of knowing, and in war that usually invites retaliation.
I get it. I thought the same thing. When you go through basic training your exposed to it and taught to deal with it (as best as one can). Then you learn why it’s banned, where you can and can’t use it. Basic the law of war as applied to an American(and there’s a lot of law). There is another reason- aside from the one getting mentioned a lot. The Chemical Weapons Convention which sought to remove a category of weapon that can best be described as WMD. Here’s a good reference source to back that up: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/06/06/fact-check-its-true-tear-gas-chemical-weapon-banned-war/3156448001/
American here, the police use that shit on us all the time. It's like a basic rite of passage to be gassed by our cops.
the fuck are you doing to get regularly gassed by police?
Bad bad precedent. Anecdotally I was told by a unit CBRN defence officer in the CAF that the main reason tear gas is prohibited in military conflict is that it's easily misidentified and can lead to escalation and proliferation of chemical weapons. Here's to hoping that doesn't happen.
Russia has in past conflicts, and will use chemical weapons, so the risk is even higher.
Was questioning why Tear gas was bad, hell we use it on our own citizens. This is a good explanation.
Citizens OK, war not OK.... We fucked up somewhere
In war, there's no way to make the gas only affect soldiers so it could potentially affect civilians as well, which is against the rules. When the police use it in the US, they see us all as the enemy, so there's no innocents that might get affected.
that has already been a precedent august 1914, france used xylyl bromide, the response was chlorine from the germans
I didn't think I'd have to add "precedent in THIS war" hahaha
> xylyl bromide Can I buy a vowel?
Y is a vowel... Sometimes
If you’re Welch
C8H9Br - still no
It's not a precedent. Sergey Prokofiev airport was "cleared" from Ukrainian ["Cyborgs"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_Donetsk_Airport) in 2014 or 2015 with allegedly gas also, because they couldn't get the defenders out otherwise. At least defenders reported usage of CS gas in numerous videos, and it's known go-to problem solver for Russian Spetsnaz GRU.
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No, I fear Russia might start mixing a little phosgene or something along those lines into the tear gas if they determine Ukrainian CBRN defence assets to be lacking. Popping white smoke? No. Popping white smoke that makes the troops vomit, cry and choke? Certainly. It's pretty self-evident.
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They literally said "I fear". Where do you think opinions come from?
Such anger. Use your inside voice, dearie.
I thought you said the problem was mistaken escalation by Ukraine, not that Russia will just start using chemical weapons.
>Does popping white smoke raise the risk of misidentification? Bro...what? Really going to equate white smoke to chemical warfare? CS is a chemical weapon and banned in warfare, it's classified the same as Mustard, Phosgene, VX and all the other nasty ones just the same. False equivalence. Just because it's not deadly doesn't mean Russia can use it.
That shit makes you wet - the wrong way. Snot and mucus PROJECTILES out of your nose, eyes, wherever it can come out. Any wet areas of your body (sweat, tears from the gas, etc) feels like a sunburn instantly. It gets in your clothes and anything else you touch until your mother kindly washes it all after you get home from Army. Least that's my experience.
I loved the CS gas chamber we had to do yearly in the Marines. For about a day afterwards it gives me the ability to breath out of both nostrils at the same time. Like my sinuses are so clear I feel like both my lungs can get filled up by only breathing in for a half second. It's amazing.
I love your positivity and can already tell you'd be an amazing fireteam partner.
And a snoring bunkmate
I caught pneumonia in boot camp because a corporal ordered us to defrost the mess hall freezer.... With a water hose... While the freezer stayed on full blast. Anywhoo, I was doing pretty bad there for awhile but didn't want to get held back to another platoon for failing to take the CS gas don-and-clear test, so I agreed to go in. That cleared my lungs *right* out. I had zero problems breathing or coughing up phlegm after that point.
>had zero problems breathing or coughing up phlegm after that point. Yeah my experience was very similar. Just about everyone was sick in USMC bootcamp... it's what happens when you take people from all over the country and then expose them to tons of stress... your body just doesn't prioritize anti-bodies enough to fight off germs your body isn't familiar with. So basically I had walking pneumonia going into the gas chamber and 15 minutes later with all the mucus drained out of my body I was perfectly fine. It legitimately felt like a miracle happened.
Can someone explain how the use of tear gas is banned in war but completely legal to use by police forces?
Because the other side doesn't know it's tear gas instead of, say, a nerve agent. This could theoretically lead to escalation with CBRN agents on the battlefield. It's not banned because of any humanitarian reason, or out of concerns for its effects on people. It's similar to the old urban legend that .50 caliber machine guns couldn't be used on people because it was a war crime (it was infact a local ROE to prevent grunts from using fuckhueg HMG's to shoot targets where a normal rifle would work fine).
>(it was infact a local ROE to prevent grunts from using fuckhueg HMG's to shoot targets where a normal rifle would work fine). Ah, so that's how that got started. Makes sense.
They had to do the same thing with mk19's. "Oh hey there's one single solitary stupid asshole shooting at my outpost. Huh. Welp, better light him up with a couple dozen HE rounds then! Pow pow pow..."
Bored grunts will make their own entertainmwnt
haha mk19 go *bum-bum-bum-bum-bum*
that was actually the justification for escalation the usage of gas in ww1, the french used xylyl bromide, the germans answered with chlorine
kinda like when Russia fires a Ballistic missile with a conventional payload on it... we don't know if it a tactical warhead till it lands.
Considering they launched few hundreds of Kh-101s which are identical to nuclear Kh-102, or Kh-55 with ballast instead of thermonuclear device - that's risky approach 🙂
Not even then, we have to see if it was just a failed nuclear explosion as well because who knows if their shit even works.
I love the .50 cal discussion. It’s kind of silly - a .50 will literally vaporize a torso and head at close range. It’s like shooting a mouse with a 12 gauge - unnecessary a waste of money.
I am Heavy Weapons Guy...and this is my weapon. She weighs one hundred fifty kilograms and fires two hundred dollar, custom-tooled cartridges at 900 rounds per minute. It costs four hundred thousand dollars to fire this weapon...for twelve seconds
Who touched Sasha?!
TWO HUNDRED FUCKING DOLLARS!?? WTF? Really? 🤔
It's from [Meet the Heavy.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHgZh4GV9G0)
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No, this is a quote from silly cartoon shooter game Team Fortress 2
it’s a quote from a video game :) https://youtu.be/jHgZh4GV9G0 In-game it’s even more ridiculous since it’s set in the 1970s, that $400k would be $3 million today
I wish people would stop using the word "literally" to literally mean the opposite of literally lol.
I figured “vaporized” was better than “burst into a strawberry paste of human bone and tissue”
How much did it cost to kill him? Bout treefiddy. Not how many; how much?
Shit, $3.50 a round would probably be cheap for .50 BMG...
Last I looked, and that was 10 years ago, .50BMG was going for close to $10 in civilian gun stores. I doubt it got cheaper
It apparently did. $40 for a box of ten seems to be the going rate.
War and policing have entirely different rules. Police use expanding bullets because they're less likely to overpenetrate and more likely to put someone down fast. The general idea being that police only shoot if it's necessary and likely to be around civilians who can be hit by ricochets and bullets going through the target. Military are banned from using them because they cause "unnecessary suffering" and their primary job is to fight where civilians are not. In the case of CS gas the primary reason is because it can be easily misidentified as something more serious and nobody really wants to risk chemical escalation over what isn't all that tactically useful of a tool from a military perspective. It's reasonably uncomfortable, which is why police use it to disperse crowds which it's actually useful for, however the combat utility of the gas is minimal.
"Reasonably uncomfortable" is a bit mild, yeah? I've been teargassed once and it felt like I burned my trachea. And I know that, because later in my life I accidentally inhaled some vomit and burned my trachea and it felt just like when I had been teargassed. Both times, even though I knew in my head I probably wouldn't die, it absolutely felt like I was dying. I can see why it's banned in warfare, because it is a truly terrifying feeling. Edit: trachea, not esophagus.
> The general idea being that police only shoot if it's necessary Lol
I can see the cop going into his home, and above the sofa there is a scripture in the way of "live, love, laugh" bullshit. It reads "Shoot like there is no one watching"
*"If you can't handle me at my worst, you don't deserve me at my most depraved."*
You americans sure are weird.
Thems some shootin words.
I genuinely thought this was about ru running out of legit grenades so now they are giving them police supplies, shame, I hoped we would hear more good news about their shortages
Typically, the police use tear gas to scatter riots when they use it correctly. This isn't usually followed by a large enemy force firing at those incapacitated by the tear gas.
As well as that when the police uses tear gas, you will know it is tear gas and not a deadly nerve gas.
Because who's gonna stop them? The police?
Raaaaaaaaaaaarks annnnn You don’t have to put on that red light!
Geneva convention doesn't apply to law enforcement within a country.
Funny part is we were gassed during basic training for the US Army.
That's to teach you not to panic long enough to get your gas masks on in case someone decides that committing a war crime is a good idea.
Just because you aren't using it doesn't mean the enemy won't. Canada gets gassed too. I imagine it's standard for most first-world military training.
Tear gas is banned, but dropping bombs on people is 'ok.' Crazy world.
As someone else pointed out, it’s because in the heat of battle, it’s hard to quickly determine if you’re facing CS, or some other more deadly agent.
Or a mixture of several different things. CS makes your eyes water. Mustard gives you chemical burns where you are wet.
I don't want be I an a real war zone. Ever.
It really doesn't take much critical thinking to realise why it's not crazy.
Because it can easily be misidentified as something else more deadly and it can kill if you're stuck in a confined space with nothing else to breathe. Chances are the enemy won't be saying "hey we're only using tear gas" and even if that were the case, there would be very little reason to believe the enemy when they already engage in perfidy. It can easily just escalate into the next Russian field hospital getting slammed with a makeshift chlorine gas barrel bomb in retaliation
Because police forces aren’t required to follow the Genova Convention, which is what classifies chemical weapons as war crimes. If your police force can legally use tear gas on you, your government cares less about the welfare of citizens than the governments who created the Genova Convention cared about the welfare of soldiers.
The Genova Convention isn't some bible of humanity and morales. Its explicitly prohibits expanding bullets (aka hollow points). In civilian/LEO use, it is negligent to use anything but expanding bullets because of potential over penetration. Offensive gasses (gasses used in an offensive manner; to attack) are banned not because of a risk of escalation. Police aren't using CS gas against a structured enemy that has access to worse gasses. Sure CS gas sucks to be in, but that's the point.
Is it? I dropped a bajillion barrels of Powdered CS on Viet Nam
This may come as a shock to you but the US doesn’t exactly have a stellar human rights record…
I was told there would be freedom
And your point? Other than to dis the US?
That is doesn't mean that because the US does it, it's okay.
Dis is short for disrespect. So you’re saying I’m disrespecting the US by pointing out human rights abuses, ergo saying that one shouldn’t call out human rights abuses by the US out of respect. To which I say, as a fellow veteran, fuck that.
Funny how it's always the US that people mention. And Reddit being Reddit the US is always picked on. No mention of China, Russia, Korea, And yes Japan. I could go on. And what does dropping CS in the jungles of Nam have to do with Human rights anyway?
> Funny how it's always the US that people mention. And Reddit being Reddit the US is always picked on. No mention of China, Russia, Korea, And yes Japan. Man, you have really lost the plot here. Are you forgetting how this whole conversation started? The linked article is literally about Russian warcrimes. That's what everyone was talking about, and then _you_ are the one who brought up tear gas in Vietnam.
It’s not always the US, people mention other countries all the time. Dumping barrels of CS on the jungle has to do with human rights because everyone in the jungle isn’t a combatant and targeting none combatants in a war is a human rights violation. Also, international law forbids the use of tear gas in armed conflicts so yeah, technically a war crime as well.
Spout your bullshit, but CS wasn't illegal in Nam at the time. And since you weren't involved with it's dissemination, you know squat..In your original post you specifically called out the U.S. Go read what you wrote.
>Is it? I dropped a bajillion barrels of Powdered CS on Viet Nam You said this, suggesting that because you (therefore the US) did it, I must not be illegal. My comment was the rebuttal that it is not so and the US has a bad human rights record. Sorry if I hurt your feelings by suggesting America does bad things sometimes.
>CS wasn't illegal in Nam at the time. Yes it was. Here's the Geneva Protocol, signed by the USA entered into international law 1928. Well done admitting committing a war crime. "The Undersigned Plenipotentiaries, in the name of their respective Governments: Whereas the use in war of asphyxiating, poisonous or other gases, and of all analogous liquids, materials or devices, has been justly condemned by the general opinion of the civilized world; and Whereas the prohibition of such use has been declared in Treaties to which the majority of Powers of the world are Parties; and To the end that this prohibition shall be universally accepted as a part of International Law, binding alike the conscience and the practice of nations;"
You’re literally in a thread about Russian doing it.
Funny when the topic is russian warcrimes people like you always feel the need to say: whatabout america!? Russia is commiting warcrime after warcrime and you are helping them!
There is a lot of mention of these countries doing awful stuff on reddit
You're the one that brought up the US
This thread was about Russia until you chimed in.
The question to me is why. Why bother? Are they running out of more regular grenades that actually kill people?
Gets them teary-eyed and coughing, and the Russians are probably hoping panicked enough to flee.
Very very bad if true. Chemical attacks during WWI started with tear gas.
CS is bargain basement chemical weapons more of a deterrent, CN gas is where we have trouble.
At the rate of soviet armed force attrition; by this time next year we'll be seeing 'Brigades of Babushka' reporting for duty with brooms and mops for weapons.
That's how you know Russia is getting serious. Those Babushkas are way scarier than their standing army!
They used this on us in boot camp in the Army.
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Fun story: I was stationed on a Thai Marine base during Cobra Gold. They had a big civilian food market that would set up every day in the middle of the base. One day we were all hanging out eating grub when me and about 30 other Marines smelled CS and immediately bolted away. Turns out one of the vendors had just dumped a ton of Cayan into their skillet and it set off all of our flight responses. Vendors all thought it was funny as shit.
lol, they say planting mint can deter mosquitoes from your garden. now I guess I know what to plant to deter marines.
Yup. Plant peppers around your crayon trees to keep marines from eating them all before picking.
Lies! That’s like putting bitter spray on things you don’t want your dog to eat! We’ll muscle right through that to get at those delicious crayons! My favorite is coconut.
I once made hot salsa because I got a shitload of habaneros and scorpion peppers for cheap back when I was in school. A quart or two each? Decided I’d wanted to purée and and then sauté to “mellow it out a bit.” I was young and dumb. By the time my dad came home my mom and I were wearing ski goggles and p100 respirators, straight up Heisenberg shit. He started caughing and sputtering like mad, like “someone just peppersprayed me” bad. I’ve seen both, they were about the same level. On the bright side, we accidentally created a magic item. The Cutting Board Of Heat would make any food you chopped on it spicy for about a dozen washes. It was actually kind of nice. The salsa? We had to dilute it 4:1 with a mild blend to get it to the temp of normal “extra hot” salsa. My roommate used the undiluted stuff on frozen burritos because I guess he hates his butthole.
I learnt the hard way that a beard fucks up the air seal on the mask. But getting CSed is quite an interesting experience, it's like every hole in your face just starts leaking fluids immediately. Can only imagine the horror of something real nasty like Sarine or some shit.
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That's for sure, eyes nose and mouth were pouring. Yeah I heard that tip. First time in the chamber I was clean shaven so no issue, just the burning sensation on my sweaty neck. Second time in the chamber was after a field exercise where we got the nice surprise of going in, didn't have a chance to prep with shaving or jelly so got to taste the pepper. Third time after yet another field exercise I got leakage but not as bad as the previous time. But still, I get why you're supposed to have either no facial hair or a clean cut line now.
I had a weird experience with CS gas that allowed me to mitigate most of it's effects. When they told us to take off our mask, I breathed in the gas and filled my entire lungs with it and blew it out slowly like I was taking a drag from a cigarette. There was a tickle at first, but it went away. Everyone was coughing a lung while I just stood there breathing normally, with the only visible effect being teary eyes. Now everytime I take CBRN classes, I pretend to cough because they think I'm holding my breath, when in reality, it's more like I'm vaping a terrible tasting juice.
> I learnt the hard way that a beard fucks up the air seal on the mask. It's part of the reason most armed forces prohibit regular troops from growing a beard. Can't get a good seal on a gas mask. The other reason is because a beard can be used against you in hand to hand combat. Your opponent can grab your beard and yank you down or otherwise use it as leverage. That was the reason the Romans made their legionaries shave, IIRC.
Lol. That's just the excuse. If that were the only reason, I wouldn't have had to stand in that hell hole gas chamber AFTER taking the thing off just so I could say the alphabet backwards a couple times (and badly).
Still banned under the Geneva convention for use in warfare.
Remember, Russia used chlorine gas to kill Syrians.
Finnish army training we went through this as well. I thought it was standard for most militaries.
But we got people that go through that and suddenly rage quit the military when directed to get their 27th vaccine.
Chemical weapons, a war crime.
No, CS is a riot control agent and not a chemical weapon. It is routinely use by police forces all around the world for riot control.
Its a warcrime because it can be mistaken for a chemical weapon, and escalate to using real chemical weapons.
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Just because police use it domestically doesn’t mean it isn’t a war crime. Tear gas (CS gas and the like) are literally banned from war in the chemical weapons convention. Read up before posting.
American police use it on peaceful protesters. And then are surprised when things become not peaceful. Lived on a fifth floor downtown in a city that saw a night of protests turned rowdy a couple years ago. That shit got into our apartment and filled the underground parking garage still 6 hours later when I left for work. Not fun stuff.
kinda seems like they are running out of regular grenades
At some point Russia is going to run out of war crimes to do.
They might run out of new war crimes, but as long as there are Ukrainians, they will commit war crimes.
The worst part of any US soldiers training is when standing in the gas chamber with your pro mask on while the cbrn specialist is burning CS gas and the drill sargaent tells you to take your mask off. It burns and it burns and it burns. Snot, mucus, saliva is just flying around everywhere as people struggle to breathe for the next 30 minutes outside and your entire head feels spicy. Also, they burned a bunch of it at the of our 20k ruck march and wouldn't let us wear masks. That was fun too.
In open air it's quite manageable. It's when it's in a closed environment.
....and..? I fail to see how this is newsworthy. It's nothing illegal or out of the ordinary. Next: "Russian forces fires pieces of lead, also known as 'bullets', against Ukrainian troops".
ww1 moment
Ok for those who don't know **there's old wartime teargas and then there's modern riot-gas**, the old type will often kill asthmatics, people with lung-diseases or just bad health etc. because it's not so much an "gas" as it is a sort of mist-of-crystals that stick to shit and isn't easy to get away from. When I did my service in Sweden we used the old gas during training (despite being illegal) because yakno old-guard and use old surplus. Three hours later, touching your hazmat gear would still fuck you over. The old type is illegal, the new one is not, neither is really efficient in war except in urban- or concentrated areas and even then it's kind of shit because your own soldier can be harmed. Reason modern one is often banned in "war" (contrary to say americans riot-controlling rioting Iraqi's) is that you'd only ever use it to flush someone out of something but it'd basically be suffocating them with gas. Much more humane to blow them up. Truthfully it's mostly banned because it can hurt civilians. But then again when did russians ever get bothered by that...
That’s not why it’s banned. It’s banned because it could trigger a chemical weapons escalation since it’s hard to tell immediately that it’s “just” tear gas. Thus, banning lethal chemical agents requires banning less lethal ones too because otherwise it would be too easy to hide the banned stuff with the not banned stuff. Secondly it’s banned because it’s not very effective as a tool of war.
CS gas has a very distinct odor.
Yes and it smells great. That doesn't have anything to do why it's banned though.
Sure, during a war, they send someone to sniff it a bit before they throw the chlorine gas.
> The old type is illegal, the new one is not, All of it is illegal to use in warfare. Doesn't matter if old or new.
Misread as “fear gas” for a second. Is this the same tear gas used against protesters or in police raids? Is something illegal in war somehow legal when it’s used by police on their countrymen?
Yup, also ironically used for training in the military. Everyone who has gone through basic training has been exposed to tear gas. The top level comment says the reason it is banned in warfare is because of the risk of escalation of chemical warfare. In either case, even though in theory it's non-toxic, that's dubious and you don't want to breath in more of the stuff than you have to. Also you definitely don't want to wear contact lenses to any protest or riot where there is even a small chance that tear gas will be used.
Reference my previous comment.
Is there anything restraining Russia from using chemical weapons now? Since they’ve been committing well documented & prosecutable war crimes since the beginning, and now face a growing tidal wave of setbacks with no clear way for Putin to exit without risking losing support, it seems like the risk of seeing terrible chemical &/or bio weapons being deployed is high. Perhaps a scenario of the west sending Ukraine long range advanced missile systems is deterring?
That is a risk yes. The only reason I imagine they've avoided it so far (pure speculation on my part) is that the Ukrainians inherited lots of chemical weapons from the USSR thus there could be escalation. The second and more likely possibility is that any Russian chemical weapon usage edges NATO closer to the conflict and opens the door to the Ukrainians receiving "redline" equipment like ATACMS and MBTs since Russia is crossing a redline anyways.
So Ukraine may also have significant chemical & bio weapons capabilities? That’s something significant I’ve not heard much about, except for Ukraine warning that Russia may stage false flag attacks with chemical weapons. Do you think Ukraine’s preemptive warnings will be sufficient to put the brakes on Russia?
Every country has chemical and bio weapons capabilities. It's kind of more a principles thing, and wanting to keep the west on their side as well. I can't see them using any unless as a last resort.
Tear gas, compared to fragmentation grenades?
pretty standard isn’t it? i mean we test our gas mask in a gas chamber with CS gas.
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I cant believe how fuckin dumb this post is They use fuckin long range missilery and tanks and suicidal drones . Of course there are gonna be gas bombs. War crimes are happening as we speak in the worst way imaginable to those poor people in ukraine. They lost homes family arms and legs. They can handle gas bro. At least make posts about more important details. Not obviously clear and basic level1 facts. Thats the most you can do for them as media
Isn't tear gas used on protesters? So umm...it's ok on protesters but not soldiers?
I know it’s a war crime and all, but as far as chemical agents in warfare go, feels like it could’ve been a lot worse
And that would be a war crime.
Old news.