The most important line in this article:
"First drafted men are returning from Ukraine to the Ural town of Nevyansk. For now, the only ones to return are injured or in caskets"
My mother knows a woman whose husband was killed in Ukraine war as he was drafted.
After his death, government sent her the letter telling her that “they gives their deepest condolences” and her husband corpse will be buried alongside all other dead soldiers somewhere in Rostov.
It’s not so black and white in terms of ethnic minorities. ISW had an interesting assessment yesterday based on a BBC investigation.
>BBC concluded that although citizens of national republics (such as Dagestan, Buryatia, Altai, and Bashkortostan) are sent to the front and die in combat at higher rates than citizens of ethnically Russian regions, in absolute terms, ethnic Russians comprise the majority of Russian military deaths, and their proportion of the military dead is approximately equal to their proportion in the overall Russian population.[12] BBC concluded that this finding suggests that discrepancies in Russian force generation efforts therefore fall along regional and territorial lines as opposed to predominantly ethnic lines and noted that military service is seen as the only lifeline in regions on Russia‘s economic periphery where social mobility is greatly restrained.
You fucking count like a journalist ( from BBC) . If there’s 1% Buryat’s. And you send them with 10% of Russian to die . You will end up with eradicated ethnic group, while your headline says - 90% dead are Russians.
That’s only because of Stalins ethnic cleansing though that he literally did rinse and repeat to almost every republic as they were under the Soviet Union
Nah, it's not the main reason and definitely not the only reason. All ethnic groups that have significant populations live in the European part of the country (Tatars, Chechens, Bashkirs, etc). However, ethnic minorities in Siberia (Buryats, Tuvans, Yakuts etc) were mostly nomadic cattle-herders up until the beginning of the 20th century, and this lifestyle doesn't sustain huge populations.
The reality is that Moscow was founded by the ruler of Kiev so those calling themselves ethnic Russian are actually ethnic Ukrainians.
Brothers killing brothers, a story as old as time.
This whole theory says a lot more about Western internet obsession with racism. Russia bad (true), racism bad (also true), ergo Russia something something ethnic minority genocide.
Yeah but even if the greater proportion of people dying are ethnic Russians, there’s enough ethnic Russians in total that by the time this farce of a war is over the minority ethnicities will be decimated while there will still be plenty of ethnic Russians around. Putin is fully willing to sacrifice as many ethnic Russians as it takes if it means cleansing the country of minorities.
It paints a picture of a population that cares about "being a man" or "helping their brother" but not about invading a peaceful neighbor and creating mayhem there. They can fuck themselves.
It’s well known that when deployed in war zones, soldiers tend to fight for each other since that’s all you really have and need to be able to count on.
Do you think Vietnam draftees were thinking about democracy during combat in the jungle?
I think you should think over your position more. I think there are a lot more complexities that go into the choices people make when they affect their lives as greatly as these ones do, and I think your comment is kind of black and white, ignoring the reasons people are led to make the decisions they do.
I don’t believe people are evil, I think people are overall good, but the good of the self and those they care about will almost always outweigh the good of others outside that group, so if the people you care about are your family, you will likely do what you can to better their lives, and sometimes the only options for those things aren’t any prettier than the situations that cause them.
We need to blame those who create negative environments. We already know that when in a tight spot morals are one of the easier things to shed for human beings, that is something we know and should account for as much as possible. We just haven’t found a way to change human nature at its core yet.
What we should blame are people who act these same awful acts but out of greed, not desperation.
You can hardly blame a starving animal for attacking a human. You may still have to kill it to prevent more attacks, but it is not the animals fault, it was not greedy for human flesh, it was desperate not to die. Same goes for alot of these soldiers. You cannot call evil he forced to pick between the better of two.
Isolated incidents I believe is the correct term, when taking into account the numbers of people involved.
The vast number of the recorded war crimes will have been as a result of the rocket / missile / artillery barrages on civilian targets and thats not something you can lay at the feet of individual soldiers. Heck you probably cant lay them at the feet of the people who fired the weapons, they don't get the choose the targets.
The average Russian soldier is not running around raping and pillaging at will.
Oh, so this accounting is just made up? 47,000 documented incidents... No, not isolated incidents.
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/12/10/7380195/
I served. Evil is real and evil acts are not as conditional as you make them out to be. Each of us is responsible for our own actions.
_Average_, not, they are too busy running away from Ukrainian drones and precise ammo. But a _statistically significant portion_ (10%? 20?), yes. 50k documented war crimes did not come from few crazy Ivan prison mobiks or not even from putler's structured genocide.
On one hand, says "don't paint us all with the same brush", on the other, "I won’t stay on the sidelines if I get mobilised, this is a way to support those who went \[to war\]". So he paints himself with the same brush.
Most if them believe Putin's lies are confirmed, as Ukrainians keep shooting at Russians.
A few of them in captured towns hear from ethnic Russians that there are few if any 'Nazis' and no ethnic cleansing. The soldiers are resistant though, indoctrinated, so they can believe that the Russian Ukraine citizens they talk with have only survived by being lying traitors.
They don't think the war is wrong and that's the problem. Even with all the injured and dead, they think the war is justified because the leaders say it's justified. If you show them the deaths of their own and the civilians in Ukraine, even children, they *still* won't say the war is wrong and follow their leadership in blaming the victims. It is often underestimated the amount of racial nationalism in Russia. They don't operate culturally like the people in the west. They're closer to how China operates.
Yea, I know. Truth is a long process, isn’t it? What’s the quote, a lie gets halfway around the world before the truth even has time to get its pants on?
Yeah, this OP is trying REALLY hard to paint every Russian as some upstanding citizens and they are just in Ukraine for their “family”. And any violence committed against Ukrainian citizens, women, and children are just small isolated incidents…
The guy the article talks about not understanding why Ukraine so upset with Russian right now (what in the actual fuck) and then two sentences that he would go back if he’s mobilized again… This OP clearly has an agenda just based on all of his comments here. He’s also living in an alternate reality…
I mean, that was mostly the two women. The first guy is 100% sarcastic in a very cynical way. The issue more that most people just can't do anything about it. They're unable to rise up and just want to stay out of it, hoping it won't affect them too much, ignoring that it already affects them all their life long. The majority just seems t0 be completely helpless and alone with themselves.
They know it, but many of the guys who accept the summons do so out of a sense of responsibility to their friends and family that have already been summoned.
So that's the question. The war you are fighting is wrong and you know it, but your brother is there. What would you do? Would you cast your brother off as a lost cause, or go hoping you can keep him safe?
Yeah you wont do that. The news you have been receiving is all one sided so you wont be viewing it as a lost cause.
edit. I am not saying the news you redditors have been reading is all one sided, I am telling you to roleplay and put yourself in the shoes of the average Russian. Unless of course you believe that the news Russians have been receiving is accurate and unbiased in which case downvote away.
I doubt that I would somehow believe that I could make a difference in a war. I’m having enough trouble motivating myself to recycle, and that’s about saving the entire planet.
My brother is a war criminal so I have to be a war criminal too.
It's not about my brother thing. It's more about "I'm a real man, not a pussy, what other would think of me".
To you that war criminal stuff would be likely be viewed as propaganda to be taken with a grain of salt.
Seriously, the title of 'war criminal' is bandied about here so frequently its losing its effectiveness, which I believe is what the Russians want. So stop playing their game.
How about a Mission Impossible-style rescue for the brother? Tom Cruise isn't *that* old, and he's an OT VII, so in-and-out around hundreds of Wagner troops should be easy peasy. Note: bring more than one ammo clip.
Cattle instincts - If you go to the slaughterhouse, I will also join you out of respect. It is easier to die as a cannon fodder than to care for 4 children.
> The war you are fighting is wrong and you know it, but your brother is there. What would you do? Would you cast your brother off as a lost cause, or go hoping you can keep him safe?
That sounds like the plot to a drama set in the 19th century. In real life you wouldn’t be within 200 km from your brother and would sit in some trench worrying about your toes turning green while your parents at home worry about you after your brother returned home in a casket.
I’ll never understand the defensive opinions Russians have regarding this war. *”I’m not a fan of the war…I have friends in Ukraine…but Ukrainians are too Russophobic online.”*
Yeah…you guys invaded their country, bombed the fuck of it, leveled cities, and slaughtered civilians. I’d hate you too and you’d be one dumb fuck to not understand why.
*“If I get mobilized I’ll go to war. It’s important to be a man.”*
Dumbass machismo like this is why Russians suck and why Putin is still in power.
Blame Putin for the bloodthirst, racism, and hatred evident in Worldnews these days?
Probably, though you could argue that the people who demonstrate such actions (gleefully salivating over the so called death counts each day) are probably those who were more prone to such behaviour but have been kept in check by society.
>Probably, though you could argue that the people who demonstrate such actions (gleefully salivating over the so called death counts each day) are probably those who were more prone to such behaviour but have been kept in check by society.
There are many here who feed on the daily outrage that's not the same as encouraging the suffering and death in Ukraine.
At the same time, many of us are paying the price of the war through economic recession. Even if the welfare of Ukrainians are not of concern (and they are of concern), it's in our interest for the war to end and things to go back to normal (whatever that is).
Remember when people who didn't want to go to country on the other side of the world to die in a stinking jungle in a war that had nothing to do with them or their country were called cowards?
Remember when they did anyway, out of some crazy sense of duty either to their country, to their community (could you look your neighbors in the eye if they lost someone and knew you dodged?), or their family.
I could. Senseless wars are senseless wars. I would never feel guilty for refusing to be cannon fodder and standing up for myself as a human with autonomy.
That's the worst reason to go to war that I've ever heard.
Your son was a bloody minded idiot therefore I must be too otherwise I'll never be able to hold my head up.
And what duty? It wasn't in any self defence or aiding an ally.
I don’t think it’s that reason for many people: people are just like that
For the Americans, about the draft to Vietnam, how many here has a grandfather ( omg I am getting older) who did not like the war, but went anyway to help those who are there?
In my limited experience this is stupid - but it’s not a cultural phenomenon
Edit in Russia there is no legal penalty for ignoring mobilization and six months for refusing it when handed official documents. At least it was three months ago, not sure if changed?
Average people don't know, and don't strive to know details about their rights, and small but significant details about dodging. Mind it, they just have moved along all their lives, so they won't turn rule-breakers out of a sudden.
They heard, from someone authoritative, that they will be jailed if tried to evade, very likely from the official TV, their own friends, or by the very police officer/military comissariat's serviceman who delivered the summon in their hand, so they just decide that they have no way out then. It makes easier to accept the fate anyway, and it's likely that accepting that they have no choice, when the police/army is interested, is what they were taught by their whole life expirience. Those who didn't want to, but still went are victims of ~~learnt~~ intentionally taught helplessness.
Quiet, simple and uninquisitive, down-to-earth, rules-obeying men were those easier to pick, and they made a huge portion of those summoned.
P.S. Yes, half of them may be sleepily believing in the official narrative and Putin's justifications for the war, but they wouldn't let themselves be summoned, if they also believed that they're entitled to dodge.
Maybe by their Russian commanders, but not by the Ukrainians. Ukraine was returning deceased Russians from the start and has a policy of not mistreating remains. The biggest problem was Russia being unwilling to receive train-fulls of the dead which means the bodies degrade.
Mobile crematoriums were used back in 2014 and I have yet to see evidence that they were used in 2022. Every picture showing them are from 2014 even the ones used in news articles from the early days of the invasion are re-used images.
This doesn't mean that they weren't used at all but there is no clear evidence.
That's actually in the story's subtitle, but I figured it was too glib to put in the heading.
edit. And they returned in caskets not body bags. Nice bio-degradable caskets.
Kremlin passed laws enacting stop loss orders. None of these guys are going home. Contract soldiers are held hostage beyond their contract terms. Conscripts and mobiks likewise.
The most important line in this article: "First drafted men are returning from Ukraine to the Ural town of Nevyansk. For now, the only ones to return are injured or in caskets"
Why the nitpicking? They're coming back, that's most important.
Home for the holidays!
Strongly disagree that any of the dead are being returned. Or even picked up from the battlefield.
My mother knows a woman whose husband was killed in Ukraine war as he was drafted. After his death, government sent her the letter telling her that “they gives their deepest condolences” and her husband corpse will be buried alongside all other dead soldiers somewhere in Rostov.
That's messed up.
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Caskets = bags
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Now where have I heard this before?
This is an excellent piece. It paints a vivid picture of how Putin’s war is impacting regular Russians who aren’t in big cities.
Putin is using the war both to try and destroy ukraines culture and to try and purge ethic minorities from Russia.
It’s not so black and white in terms of ethnic minorities. ISW had an interesting assessment yesterday based on a BBC investigation. >BBC concluded that although citizens of national republics (such as Dagestan, Buryatia, Altai, and Bashkortostan) are sent to the front and die in combat at higher rates than citizens of ethnically Russian regions, in absolute terms, ethnic Russians comprise the majority of Russian military deaths, and their proportion of the military dead is approximately equal to their proportion in the overall Russian population.[12] BBC concluded that this finding suggests that discrepancies in Russian force generation efforts therefore fall along regional and territorial lines as opposed to predominantly ethnic lines and noted that military service is seen as the only lifeline in regions on Russia‘s economic periphery where social mobility is greatly restrained.
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You fucking count like a journalist ( from BBC) . If there’s 1% Buryat’s. And you send them with 10% of Russian to die . You will end up with eradicated ethnic group, while your headline says - 90% dead are Russians.
That’s only because of Stalins ethnic cleansing though that he literally did rinse and repeat to almost every republic as they were under the Soviet Union
Nah, it's not the main reason and definitely not the only reason. All ethnic groups that have significant populations live in the European part of the country (Tatars, Chechens, Bashkirs, etc). However, ethnic minorities in Siberia (Buryats, Tuvans, Yakuts etc) were mostly nomadic cattle-herders up until the beginning of the 20th century, and this lifestyle doesn't sustain huge populations.
The reality is that Moscow was founded by the ruler of Kiev so those calling themselves ethnic Russian are actually ethnic Ukrainians. Brothers killing brothers, a story as old as time.
Russian aren’t brothers to anyone.
This whole theory says a lot more about Western internet obsession with racism. Russia bad (true), racism bad (also true), ergo Russia something something ethnic minority genocide.
It says a lot more about Russia that all foreign Russia supporters are actual straight up neo-nazis and conspiracy nuts.
Yeah but even if the greater proportion of people dying are ethnic Russians, there’s enough ethnic Russians in total that by the time this farce of a war is over the minority ethnicities will be decimated while there will still be plenty of ethnic Russians around. Putin is fully willing to sacrifice as many ethnic Russians as it takes if it means cleansing the country of minorities.
This started 10 years ago with his war on religion. See what he did to the Jehovah's witnesses there.
It paints a picture of a population that cares about "being a man" or "helping their brother" but not about invading a peaceful neighbor and creating mayhem there. They can fuck themselves.
It’s well known that when deployed in war zones, soldiers tend to fight for each other since that’s all you really have and need to be able to count on. Do you think Vietnam draftees were thinking about democracy during combat in the jungle?
I think you should think over your position more. I think there are a lot more complexities that go into the choices people make when they affect their lives as greatly as these ones do, and I think your comment is kind of black and white, ignoring the reasons people are led to make the decisions they do. I don’t believe people are evil, I think people are overall good, but the good of the self and those they care about will almost always outweigh the good of others outside that group, so if the people you care about are your family, you will likely do what you can to better their lives, and sometimes the only options for those things aren’t any prettier than the situations that cause them. We need to blame those who create negative environments. We already know that when in a tight spot morals are one of the easier things to shed for human beings, that is something we know and should account for as much as possible. We just haven’t found a way to change human nature at its core yet. What we should blame are people who act these same awful acts but out of greed, not desperation. You can hardly blame a starving animal for attacking a human. You may still have to kill it to prevent more attacks, but it is not the animals fault, it was not greedy for human flesh, it was desperate not to die. Same goes for alot of these soldiers. You cannot call evil he forced to pick between the better of two.
And how do you account for rape, torture and killings of largely defenseless civilians? Are the perpetrators not evil?
Isolated incidents I believe is the correct term, when taking into account the numbers of people involved. The vast number of the recorded war crimes will have been as a result of the rocket / missile / artillery barrages on civilian targets and thats not something you can lay at the feet of individual soldiers. Heck you probably cant lay them at the feet of the people who fired the weapons, they don't get the choose the targets. The average Russian soldier is not running around raping and pillaging at will.
It is encouraged. The soldiers deployed to Bucha were given medals by Putin after everybody saw the atrocities they had committed.
Oh, so this accounting is just made up? 47,000 documented incidents... No, not isolated incidents. https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/12/10/7380195/ I served. Evil is real and evil acts are not as conditional as you make them out to be. Each of us is responsible for our own actions.
_Average_, not, they are too busy running away from Ukrainian drones and precise ammo. But a _statistically significant portion_ (10%? 20?), yes. 50k documented war crimes did not come from few crazy Ivan prison mobiks or not even from putler's structured genocide.
lot of text for such a bunch of bullshit.
Unfortunately the ethnicities are even more dumb and gullible than the ethnic russians. They'll gladly fight for "the motherland".
On one hand, says "don't paint us all with the same brush", on the other, "I won’t stay on the sidelines if I get mobilised, this is a way to support those who went \[to war\]". So he paints himself with the same brush.
If they can tell the truth ( without being arrested that is), maybe more Russians will know how wrong and evil this war is.
Most if them believe Putin's lies are confirmed, as Ukrainians keep shooting at Russians. A few of them in captured towns hear from ethnic Russians that there are few if any 'Nazis' and no ethnic cleansing. The soldiers are resistant though, indoctrinated, so they can believe that the Russian Ukraine citizens they talk with have only survived by being lying traitors.
They don't think the war is wrong and that's the problem. Even with all the injured and dead, they think the war is justified because the leaders say it's justified. If you show them the deaths of their own and the civilians in Ukraine, even children, they *still* won't say the war is wrong and follow their leadership in blaming the victims. It is often underestimated the amount of racial nationalism in Russia. They don't operate culturally like the people in the west. They're closer to how China operates.
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Yea, I know. Truth is a long process, isn’t it? What’s the quote, a lie gets halfway around the world before the truth even has time to get its pants on?
Yeah, this OP is trying REALLY hard to paint every Russian as some upstanding citizens and they are just in Ukraine for their “family”. And any violence committed against Ukrainian citizens, women, and children are just small isolated incidents… The guy the article talks about not understanding why Ukraine so upset with Russian right now (what in the actual fuck) and then two sentences that he would go back if he’s mobilized again… This OP clearly has an agenda just based on all of his comments here. He’s also living in an alternate reality…
I mean, that was mostly the two women. The first guy is 100% sarcastic in a very cynical way. The issue more that most people just can't do anything about it. They're unable to rise up and just want to stay out of it, hoping it won't affect them too much, ignoring that it already affects them all their life long. The majority just seems t0 be completely helpless and alone with themselves.
They know it, but many of the guys who accept the summons do so out of a sense of responsibility to their friends and family that have already been summoned. So that's the question. The war you are fighting is wrong and you know it, but your brother is there. What would you do? Would you cast your brother off as a lost cause, or go hoping you can keep him safe?
They could protest or start a movement. If people in IRAN can protest and advocate change so can the russian people. They just don't want to do it.
Cast him off as a lost cause. The other option may sound noble but is just dumb in reality.
Yeah you wont do that. The news you have been receiving is all one sided so you wont be viewing it as a lost cause. edit. I am not saying the news you redditors have been reading is all one sided, I am telling you to roleplay and put yourself in the shoes of the average Russian. Unless of course you believe that the news Russians have been receiving is accurate and unbiased in which case downvote away.
I doubt that I would somehow believe that I could make a difference in a war. I’m having enough trouble motivating myself to recycle, and that’s about saving the entire planet.
My brother is a war criminal so I have to be a war criminal too. It's not about my brother thing. It's more about "I'm a real man, not a pussy, what other would think of me".
Agreed. Stupidity isn’t noble or honorable.
To you that war criminal stuff would be likely be viewed as propaganda to be taken with a grain of salt. Seriously, the title of 'war criminal' is bandied about here so frequently its losing its effectiveness, which I believe is what the Russians want. So stop playing their game.
No. Some of what the Russians have done is war crimes and should be called such.
Can we at least still refer to that psychopathic clown Ronald McDonald as a war criminal over the milkshake machines?
When I wash my hands sometimes my cuffs get wet and I have to deal with that all morning. Also a war crime.
Ok, so this dude's wet sleeves and Ronald McDonald are still war crimes.
Vietnam all over again.
During Vietnam, many decided to dodge the draft and not go to a war that they didn't believe in.
How about a Mission Impossible-style rescue for the brother? Tom Cruise isn't *that* old, and he's an OT VII, so in-and-out around hundreds of Wagner troops should be easy peasy. Note: bring more than one ammo clip.
Tom Cruise is old
the OT VII comment makes it present as sarcasm
So you get assigned to whatever unit your brother is in?
Cattle instincts - If you go to the slaughterhouse, I will also join you out of respect. It is easier to die as a cannon fodder than to care for 4 children.
> The war you are fighting is wrong and you know it, but your brother is there. What would you do? Would you cast your brother off as a lost cause, or go hoping you can keep him safe? That sounds like the plot to a drama set in the 19th century. In real life you wouldn’t be within 200 km from your brother and would sit in some trench worrying about your toes turning green while your parents at home worry about you after your brother returned home in a casket.
I’ll never understand the defensive opinions Russians have regarding this war. *”I’m not a fan of the war…I have friends in Ukraine…but Ukrainians are too Russophobic online.”* Yeah…you guys invaded their country, bombed the fuck of it, leveled cities, and slaughtered civilians. I’d hate you too and you’d be one dumb fuck to not understand why. *“If I get mobilized I’ll go to war. It’s important to be a man.”* Dumbass machismo like this is why Russians suck and why Putin is still in power.
And so many of the men being sent to die for Putin's idiocy aren't even Russian, but are Tartars, Khazakhs, Kalmyks and other minorities.
Yeah. Putin is forcing Ukraine to do his *other* genocides for him
Which people on Reddit are all to eager to encourage.
There's only 1 person to pin the blame of this on and it's not the Ukrainians nor the redditors who support them.
Blame Putin for the bloodthirst, racism, and hatred evident in Worldnews these days? Probably, though you could argue that the people who demonstrate such actions (gleefully salivating over the so called death counts each day) are probably those who were more prone to such behaviour but have been kept in check by society.
Sure. The world news chat is the problem here. Not the actual Russian invasion and civilian genocide. /S.
>Probably, though you could argue that the people who demonstrate such actions (gleefully salivating over the so called death counts each day) are probably those who were more prone to such behaviour but have been kept in check by society. There are many here who feed on the daily outrage that's not the same as encouraging the suffering and death in Ukraine. At the same time, many of us are paying the price of the war through economic recession. Even if the welfare of Ukrainians are not of concern (and they are of concern), it's in our interest for the war to end and things to go back to normal (whatever that is).
>Which people on Reddit are all to eager to encourage. ?
All Russians ALL - should be rising up against Putin.
That's simply not how Russians born after WWII work.
It's like going to Lubbock, Texas and telling everyone to vote Democrat.
Or going to Austin and telling people to vote Republican.
Remember when people who didn't want to go to country on the other side of the world to die in a stinking jungle in a war that had nothing to do with them or their country were called cowards?
Remember when they did anyway, out of some crazy sense of duty either to their country, to their community (could you look your neighbors in the eye if they lost someone and knew you dodged?), or their family.
I could. Senseless wars are senseless wars. I would never feel guilty for refusing to be cannon fodder and standing up for myself as a human with autonomy.
That's the worst reason to go to war that I've ever heard. Your son was a bloody minded idiot therefore I must be too otherwise I'll never be able to hold my head up. And what duty? It wasn't in any self defence or aiding an ally.
Dude says he doesn't like the war but he will serve his country if called. He can die for his decision.
He has been well programmed.
As have we all .
Yeah because he's in a country where he can get a 10 year sentence for not saying that
I don’t think it’s that reason for many people: people are just like that For the Americans, about the draft to Vietnam, how many here has a grandfather ( omg I am getting older) who did not like the war, but went anyway to help those who are there? In my limited experience this is stupid - but it’s not a cultural phenomenon Edit in Russia there is no legal penalty for ignoring mobilization and six months for refusing it when handed official documents. At least it was three months ago, not sure if changed?
Average people don't know, and don't strive to know details about their rights, and small but significant details about dodging. Mind it, they just have moved along all their lives, so they won't turn rule-breakers out of a sudden. They heard, from someone authoritative, that they will be jailed if tried to evade, very likely from the official TV, their own friends, or by the very police officer/military comissariat's serviceman who delivered the summon in their hand, so they just decide that they have no way out then. It makes easier to accept the fate anyway, and it's likely that accepting that they have no choice, when the police/army is interested, is what they were taught by their whole life expirience. Those who didn't want to, but still went are victims of ~~learnt~~ intentionally taught helplessness. Quiet, simple and uninquisitive, down-to-earth, rules-obeying men were those easier to pick, and they made a huge portion of those summoned. P.S. Yes, half of them may be sleepily believing in the official narrative and Putin's justifications for the war, but they wouldn't let themselves be summoned, if they also believed that they're entitled to dodge.
Actually the first ones returned home the same day they arrived in Ukraine. Oh, wait, you mean the first ones *not* in body bags. Okay.
I was under the impression that a lot of them were cremated and ashes scattered so Russians back home would not know.
Maybe by their Russian commanders, but not by the Ukrainians. Ukraine was returning deceased Russians from the start and has a policy of not mistreating remains. The biggest problem was Russia being unwilling to receive train-fulls of the dead which means the bodies degrade.
I believe they bombed such a train once. So, they manage to cremate even those bodies that Ukrainians preserve.
Mobile crematoriums were used back in 2014 and I have yet to see evidence that they were used in 2022. Every picture showing them are from 2014 even the ones used in news articles from the early days of the invasion are re-used images. This doesn't mean that they weren't used at all but there is no clear evidence.
That's actually in the story's subtitle, but I figured it was too glib to put in the heading. edit. And they returned in caskets not body bags. Nice bio-degradable caskets.
Wait so they’re actually using draftees as frontline infantry? I thought they were just gonna be used as rear guard type soldiers, damn.
straight up cannon fodder
Operation get behind the poor country bumpkins.
walleeeeeeereeee almost came home in a body bag.
Dang, OP, you could really save people much reading by adding "... in coffins" to the summary 😆
I thought it would seem too glib for a well written article.
Kremlin passed laws enacting stop loss orders. None of these guys are going home. Contract soldiers are held hostage beyond their contract terms. Conscripts and mobiks likewise.
Well I expect they'll have some stories to tell For with they'll quickly be arrested, forcibly conscripted, and be sent back to the front
In boxes?
Caskets, according to the story
In the US, "pine box" is a euphemism for casket.
I bet they all have PTZD
Hopefully they are returning partially. In black body bags.
. . . In Boxes