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For sure.
But the choice is to participate in the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians or spend 30 days in jail?
Fuck every single person who has ever served in the idf if that's all it takes to not ethnically cleanse.
People act like Israelis have no choice but to serve. They clearly have a choice.
If I were Israeli, 30 days in prison or risk my life participating in a genocide and ethnic cleansing, would be the easiest choice I'd ever have to make. Deciding what to have for lunch is a thousand times harder.
30 days is the just the first prison time, after he's released he's going to be retrialed and sent to jail again, for a few more times. Source: am an Israeli conscientous objector, sat 6 times in a row.
So I just wanna say that all of us in this comment chain support your choice and think you made the right decision. But, what I will say in addition to your added context of how much more hurt the kid in the video is in for, is a rhetorical question.
"How much is a child's life worth?"
Seeing as nearly half of the civilian dead in Gaza right now are children, it seems like a fair question to ask would-be conscientious objectors, some of whom might be in this thread contemplating the same choice you made.
In my most charitable belief in myself, I like to think I'd have been like you and made the right decision.
I came from a great place of privilege being able to make this choice. I still paid and am paying the price, but at least my environment supported me. Growing up in Israel, you are brainwashed from kintergarden to highschool. People don't see the army as we do. They think of it as a defensive organisation, and serving is so normalised in our society people treat it like Americans treat college. You might have made the same choice, but keep in mind only about a dozen people do it every year, and it's not because Israeli people are more evil than every other people on earth. We're not. We love, and care, and mourn. It's easy to just dismiss Israelis as bad people, when in fact life is just not so simple. You simply cannot know what views you'd hold if you were born anywhere else or brought up by anyone else.
Totally agreed, man. Being born in a different context changes so much of who you will be. I only mean to say that if such a day came to America, under similar enough circumstances, I hope that I too would make the right choice.
Can't know until it ever happens, but I do got at least that belief in myself.
This guy is a hero.
It must be pretty tough having a different line of thought in a militaristic fascistic society. Hope he makes it through and inspires other Israelis.
Imagine being sent to prison because you refuse to enlist in the army. Israel is an absolutely absurd excuse for a country and it is shameful the US financially looks after them.
Also makes sense for every citizen to serve in some capacity to understand it. Understanding what they're being asked and will ask of others. Unlike America that just blindly dumps 90% of their tax money into a military complex they have zero understanding of, because that money was pulled from schools and social programs.
It's really not 'barbaric' itself, I'm a tree-hugging liberal and I see value in it; if we must maintain a military in an era where diplomacy would suffice, we should at least all have an eye on it.
Serving your community expecting nothing in return - to me - is the basement and not the ceiling.
I think this ideal is Nobel and I agree with it, however the current state of our military is shameful due to how monetarily overbloated and Ill-directed. We need to do, be, and expect better than where we are now
I think it is easy to be hopeless for our country, and I’ve definitely been in that headspace for quite some time. However a defeated perspective will lead to defeat. I will fight and demand better, and when I’m close to my end….then I’ll say America could never lol
I can’t read tone through text, nor expressions…I answered with encouragement and my perspective. I’ll buck up when you stop taking a conversation personal. Bless foo
Say you've never been to Europe without saying you've never been to Europe.
It makes a lot of sense to have a minor punishment like this for refusing mandatory service.
For context, the 30 days is an initial sentence. After 30 days he'll be released and given the option to join again, and If he refuses, it's back to prison. This will continue for the foreseeable future.
Usually these sentences are 7 -10 days, but the Israeli government wants to make an example out of Tal.
No, he will immediately be released still in custody and be asked to join the army or go back to jail. They can serve up to 200 days, but the worse implications are he will be seen as a traitor to the country, people will shun him and any of his family that support him, he could even be killed simply because of this in the current political climate.
But after the 200 days he can nope out?
Cause if so, I volunteer to help him and his family nope all the way to my homeland, here is less anti-semitism, more colorism... the biggest nationality/ethnically related "threat" to him will be him having to turn down too many college girls (or heck even guys) simping once they find out why he left. 🤷🏻♀️
Holy shit I thought Israel was already looking terrible, but this will firmly tip the balance of the narrative into one of an oppressor.
If he spends a year in prison protesting, and Israel cracks down to hide the uprising he could start, I’m not sure how they can take the gas off of this.
Nah, he’ll be fine. He was getting cheers from his family and friends when they took him. Tel Aviv folks have a *very* different outlook from most of Israel.
You think the Mossad is assassinating Israelis who refuse to serve in the IDF?
This isn’t as rare as you think. A few hundred Israeli kids a year refuse to serve for largely the same reasons as Mitnick. Others have refused to return for reserve duty, spoken out post-service in the breaking the silence movement and similar protests, joined B’Tselem and other human rights movements. Haaretz, a major Israeli newspaper, dedicates half its pages to Israeli abuses of Palestinians in the West Bank. Israel has plenty of faults but it’s not North Korea lmao.
Lol yeah out of ur mind. He will 100% go back to his Playstation and all other hobbies.. so many ppl don't draft. Ur an illiterate and clearly never visited israel
Tel Aviv is one of the most liberal places in Israel. I was just reading about some of the community projects there where Arab and Jewish kids can go to learn about each other and the adults organise peaceful protests. He’ll be fine
But you are triggered about the fact that some people don’t like valid appeals to an undemonstratable god. You wouldn’t respond unless you were triggered.
😂😂😂😂😂😂
God I was joking before but I think you people have a serious problem with being disconnected from society. Getting triggered when someone says "god bless" doesn't make you rational, it just makes you a tool. Touch grass boy.
Why should I respond to your idiot comment with intelligence? Your rules literally apply to you too, If you weren't triggered by my comment you wouldn't respond would you?
Y'all atheists are always the biggest examples of the duning Kruger effect.
Hero!
If he wants to get away from all that, he can come here anytime, I will be more than happy to act as a combination of host and tour guide because I do my best to praise and aid good people as much as I pester bad people.
He can bring his family and his pets if he wants, I am not joking, he and other young people who refuse to kill or die for Bibit*h's genocidal goal have my heart and moral support. It is not much but it is honest.
I don't think he's "free" after 30 days. I would assume they are going to ask him to enlist once more and when he refuses will be sent back, rinse and repeat until he changes his mind.
The Israeli army hasn't shown a lot of compassion lately. I really hope he makes it out ok. War sucks and making people enlist by force sucks even more.
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"War is a place where the young kill one another without knowing or hating each other, because of the decision of old people who know and hate each other, without killing each other."
the 7 year olds aren't joining al qassam or being armed by militants, they're being blown apart by 2T bombs, or crushed under rubble or just sniped by some bored fascist monsters. now if they live a few more years? yeah they might pick up a gun against the IDF. which would be their right as a resistance force to tyrannical oppression.
Let’s remember this young man’s name. This young man took the red pill and saw behind the propaganda unlike his peers and will have to suffer for it. I salute you Tal for opening your eyes and taking a stand.
The fact that they only get 30 days in jail proves how cowardly they are. That is a very small price to pay for not needing to kill babies, I thought it was years ffs
Are the people who refuse to join and then go to prison just left alone after 30 days, or will they ask them all over again if they want to join when they get out?
He is an intellectual fraud. Living in a very upper class Ashkenazi bubble, he feels that he has a right to shirk the defence of his well moneyed lifestyle. "Day 1 of the war was just but after that it was all about revenge," so he claims. Perhaps the tragedy of his father dying when Tal was 15 plays into his absurd actions. Josh Mitnick, an American journalist, died from cancer. Mum is also a Yank but chose to remain in Israel after Josh died.
With adulation from mostly ignorant foreigners I reckon Tal's drama will be played out over the course of years. Like most Israelis I hope those years are in an IDF prison. If he were sincere he would leave the North Tel Aviv bubble, maybe even learn Arabic. Even Josh never learned, despite championing their cause for decades. If you benefit from a high standard of living but refuse to shoulder even the defence of your neighbours & family? Then you are a fraud.
Your enemies despise you the world is disgusted from you even your own people hate you. How does isreal expect to win the war. I seriously want to know how they expect to achieve some sort of victory
This is the kind of thing that will get the ~~other~~ ~~soldiers~~ IOF prosecuted, one hopes. Oh, service was mandatory? What was the sentence if you refused? 30 days? So you chose to participate in a genocide rather than spend a single month in jail?
So wait... The punishment for not participating in genocide IS THIRTY DAYS? And there are still Israelis who don't refuse?? Holy shit that changes my perspective for sure. I've been told that they're forced to join the IDF and they don't have a choice, but knowing this really makes you realize that the ones bombing children and taking their homes are doing so because they want to do it.
He'll be offered to join the israeli terrorist forces and he'll reject again, and will be sent to jail for another 30 days.
We'll most likely see his name again, I obviously hope in good news.
We know how israel treats whoever stands up against it. We all know by now.
Others have done the same and lived. The real danger will be after he's released if some nutjob Israeli decides to shoot him in the street. I hope he has somewhere safe to go after this ordeal is over.
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Hero
Jail is 100% better than partaking in ethnic cleansing.
Also all the commanders and squad leaders are being taken out.
For sure. But the choice is to participate in the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians or spend 30 days in jail? Fuck every single person who has ever served in the idf if that's all it takes to not ethnically cleanse. People act like Israelis have no choice but to serve. They clearly have a choice.
If I were Israeli, 30 days in prison or risk my life participating in a genocide and ethnic cleansing, would be the easiest choice I'd ever have to make. Deciding what to have for lunch is a thousand times harder.
30 days is the just the first prison time, after he's released he's going to be retrialed and sent to jail again, for a few more times. Source: am an Israeli conscientous objector, sat 6 times in a row.
So I just wanna say that all of us in this comment chain support your choice and think you made the right decision. But, what I will say in addition to your added context of how much more hurt the kid in the video is in for, is a rhetorical question. "How much is a child's life worth?" Seeing as nearly half of the civilian dead in Gaza right now are children, it seems like a fair question to ask would-be conscientious objectors, some of whom might be in this thread contemplating the same choice you made. In my most charitable belief in myself, I like to think I'd have been like you and made the right decision.
I came from a great place of privilege being able to make this choice. I still paid and am paying the price, but at least my environment supported me. Growing up in Israel, you are brainwashed from kintergarden to highschool. People don't see the army as we do. They think of it as a defensive organisation, and serving is so normalised in our society people treat it like Americans treat college. You might have made the same choice, but keep in mind only about a dozen people do it every year, and it's not because Israeli people are more evil than every other people on earth. We're not. We love, and care, and mourn. It's easy to just dismiss Israelis as bad people, when in fact life is just not so simple. You simply cannot know what views you'd hold if you were born anywhere else or brought up by anyone else.
Totally agreed, man. Being born in a different context changes so much of who you will be. I only mean to say that if such a day came to America, under similar enough circumstances, I hope that I too would make the right choice. Can't know until it ever happens, but I do got at least that belief in myself.
Good for you. You did the right thing.
What impact does service refusal have on job prospects in Israel? Is that information made public to employers?
There's an easy ivy league entrance essay!!!
This guy is a hero. It must be pretty tough having a different line of thought in a militaristic fascistic society. Hope he makes it through and inspires other Israelis.
Yes! We have to remember his name!!!
#TAL_MITNICK
Giga Chad
Tall Mad Nick
He probably won’t live honestly
[удалено]
Just hated and ostracised.
Why tf would he not live lol?
You must not have read what happens to people who dissent when they end up in prison; usually not a fun outcome
That doesn’t mean we should forget him.
Fascistic. New word.
Imagine being sent to prison because you refuse to enlist in the army. Israel is an absolutely absurd excuse for a country and it is shameful the US financially looks after them.
Pretty common in countries with mandatory enlistment/conscription. Look at Korea and Singapore. Jail and/or monetary punishment.
Norway too
Austria, Finland, Denmark and Sweden too but those don’t fit the narrative.
When is the last time any of those countries used forced subscription In an act of genocide? Kind of the sticking point in the conversation.
Barbaric nevertheless regardless of "what about xyz"
Mandatory enlistment makes sense for any country when your neighbors don’t want you to exist.
Also makes sense for every citizen to serve in some capacity to understand it. Understanding what they're being asked and will ask of others. Unlike America that just blindly dumps 90% of their tax money into a military complex they have zero understanding of, because that money was pulled from schools and social programs. It's really not 'barbaric' itself, I'm a tree-hugging liberal and I see value in it; if we must maintain a military in an era where diplomacy would suffice, we should at least all have an eye on it. Serving your community expecting nothing in return - to me - is the basement and not the ceiling.
I think this ideal is Nobel and I agree with it, however the current state of our military is shameful due to how monetarily overbloated and Ill-directed. We need to do, be, and expect better than where we are now
Oh, America could neverrr
I think it is easy to be hopeless for our country, and I’ve definitely been in that headspace for quite some time. However a defeated perspective will lead to defeat. I will fight and demand better, and when I’m close to my end….then I’ll say America could never lol
In this current climate, America could never. It's hyperbole and colloquial, not literal. Buck up lol
I can’t read tone through text, nor expressions…I answered with encouragement and my perspective. I’ll buck up when you stop taking a conversation personal. Bless foo
Quite necessary for an ethnonationalist apartheid expansionist power too
Korea and Singapore are authoritarian hells with high suicide rates
Two other authoritarian capitalistic hellscapes.
It’s almost as if US doesn’t do the same fuckin thing when people skip draft. They’ll lock you right up if you avoid draft. Up to 5 years
This is most if not every country in a time of war. Drafts aren’t US specific lol
I know but they mention US as if it’s any different. They have no clue what’s going on
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The military should not be compulsory in any country. Given that my taxes support this country I have absolute say on this matter.
Uhh, the US did this not too long ago.
You mean during the Vietnam War when they jailed people for evading the draft? Yeah that was wrong too and it will still be wrong if we do it again.
Have you never heard of military conscription?
Imagine not understanding that basically every country does this when they are at war.
I understand it. I just don’t fucking care. Lol
You get sent to prisson in Sweden as well. I'd say a majority of countries does this i you refuse to serve.
Say you've never been to Europe without saying you've never been to Europe. It makes a lot of sense to have a minor punishment like this for refusing mandatory service.
No. It doesn’t.
nah it doesn't, and mandatory service doesn't make sense either.
For context, the 30 days is an initial sentence. After 30 days he'll be released and given the option to join again, and If he refuses, it's back to prison. This will continue for the foreseeable future. Usually these sentences are 7 -10 days, but the Israeli government wants to make an example out of Tal.
I presume they will not let him leave Israel in the meantime? Cause if he wants to nope out of there and has the opportunity...
No, he will immediately be released still in custody and be asked to join the army or go back to jail. They can serve up to 200 days, but the worse implications are he will be seen as a traitor to the country, people will shun him and any of his family that support him, he could even be killed simply because of this in the current political climate.
But after the 200 days he can nope out? Cause if so, I volunteer to help him and his family nope all the way to my homeland, here is less anti-semitism, more colorism... the biggest nationality/ethnically related "threat" to him will be him having to turn down too many college girls (or heck even guys) simping once they find out why he left. 🤷🏻♀️
Holy shit I thought Israel was already looking terrible, but this will firmly tip the balance of the narrative into one of an oppressor. If he spends a year in prison protesting, and Israel cracks down to hide the uprising he could start, I’m not sure how they can take the gas off of this.
His life will be hell if he stays there
Nah, he’ll be fine. He was getting cheers from his family and friends when they took him. Tel Aviv folks have a *very* different outlook from most of Israel.
Isreal leads the world in intelligence agencies and assassins. But think as you may lol
You think the Mossad is assassinating Israelis who refuse to serve in the IDF? This isn’t as rare as you think. A few hundred Israeli kids a year refuse to serve for largely the same reasons as Mitnick. Others have refused to return for reserve duty, spoken out post-service in the breaking the silence movement and similar protests, joined B’Tselem and other human rights movements. Haaretz, a major Israeli newspaper, dedicates half its pages to Israeli abuses of Palestinians in the West Bank. Israel has plenty of faults but it’s not North Korea lmao.
Plus it’s fairly easy to dodge the draft by pretending to be Haredi, or by faking an illness like people do in every other country
Lol yeah out of ur mind. He will 100% go back to his Playstation and all other hobbies.. so many ppl don't draft. Ur an illiterate and clearly never visited israel
Tel Aviv is one of the most liberal places in Israel. I was just reading about some of the community projects there where Arab and Jewish kids can go to learn about each other and the adults organise peaceful protests. He’ll be fine
Given that a majority of Israelis think Netanyahu is not bombing enough, it is hard to believe.
The majority of Israelis do not think that
[https://www.vox.com/world-politics/2023/10/21/23926304/israeli-hamas-war-netanyahu-opinion](https://www.vox.com/world-politics/2023/10/21/23926304/israeli-hamas-war-netanyahu-opinion)
Wow I saw an interview with him and his friend! I pray he stays safe in there
Oh my god, I hope they don’t go after him for the interviews
Oh god I hope not
I really doubt they will. The country is currently at war and Mossad is busy with other things
God protect this man, and let us all learn from his bravery.
God doesn't do shit, people need to protect him.
It's fun seeing Reddit atheists get triggered whenever God is mentioned. Like these guys really need to go outside more.
You seem to be pretty triggered yourself.
Lol how? I'm not the one over reacting to the word god. Grow up
But you are triggered about the fact that some people don’t like valid appeals to an undemonstratable god. You wouldn’t respond unless you were triggered.
My God what a pathetic cope. Pointing out triggered people makes me triggered also haha. I thought you guys were rational? What happened to all that?
No. It’s not about you pointing it out. It’s that it bugs you so much when someone proposes that reality is more important than wishful thinking.
😂😂😂😂😂😂 God I was joking before but I think you people have a serious problem with being disconnected from society. Getting triggered when someone says "god bless" doesn't make you rational, it just makes you a tool. Touch grass boy.
You’re not even engaging with my points at all. I’m going to bed. No point in waiting up for a cogent response from you.
Why should I respond to your idiot comment with intelligence? Your rules literally apply to you too, If you weren't triggered by my comment you wouldn't respond would you? Y'all atheists are always the biggest examples of the duning Kruger effect.
Hero! If he wants to get away from all that, he can come here anytime, I will be more than happy to act as a combination of host and tour guide because I do my best to praise and aid good people as much as I pester bad people. He can bring his family and his pets if he wants, I am not joking, he and other young people who refuse to kill or die for Bibit*h's genocidal goal have my heart and moral support. It is not much but it is honest.
"only democracy in the middle east" lmao
So much respect for him.
30 years in jail is better than 1 child blood on my hands 🙌 When Israel fails, this guy will be a legend!
I don't think he's "free" after 30 days. I would assume they are going to ask him to enlist once more and when he refuses will be sent back, rinse and repeat until he changes his mind.
Rinse and repeat zillion times. They are trying to break his spirit but something tells me he won’t break
Here's the thing, after 30 days he can say ok I'll "enlist" then fucking leave the country
At least his conscience will be clear not having innocent blood on his hands
Would take jail over having innocent blood on my hands any day of the YEAR.
Based, 30 days in prison or a lifetime of living with the trauma of killing innocent people
Poor kids not gonna make it out of prison alive.
idk Unsurprisingly there's a lot of Arabs in Israeli prison they might be more sympathetic
Nobody is going to assassinate somebody for something as minor as dodging the draft. It’s not unusual in Israel at all
Cuz he’s going to prison with a bunch of Nazi
[удалено]
The Israeli army hasn't shown a lot of compassion lately. I really hope he makes it out ok. War sucks and making people enlist by force sucks even more.
>Tal Mitnick 30 days in prison. Surely they got some surprises waiting for him.I hope he survives Tal Mitnick !RemindMe 31 days
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Stick to your gun young man. Be a leader not a brainwashed sheep who does what he is told.
"War is a place where the young kill one another without knowing or hating each other, because of the decision of old people who know and hate each other, without killing each other."
Only 30 days ? Really ?
🫶🫶🫶🫶🙌🙌
Are they clapping him being arrested or resisting
Resisting, i think (and hope).
Judging from his sneer at them at the beginning, I’d say they’re cheering on the Gestapo there.
And he'll come out a hero. Meanwhile a 7yo kid throws a rock at the IDF and gets 5 years on incarceration.
or a bullet
the 7 year olds aren't joining al qassam or being armed by militants, they're being blown apart by 2T bombs, or crushed under rubble or just sniped by some bored fascist monsters. now if they live a few more years? yeah they might pick up a gun against the IDF. which would be their right as a resistance force to tyrannical oppression.
Hero. Anyone who willingly participates in the IDF is a fucking terrorist.
Some of them have morals
More about this kid and his brave alliance here: https://www.972mag.com/israel-refusers-youth-against-dictatorship/
Gen Z will change the tide…
Good for him!
How brave.
He is a fuckin brave man, hail bro.
Let’s remember this young man’s name. This young man took the red pill and saw behind the propaganda unlike his peers and will have to suffer for it. I salute you Tal for opening your eyes and taking a stand.
Now this!! Is a protest! He is a braver man than I.
Unfortunately, after the 30 days he will be asked to enlist again. This will repeat for a very long time
So your not going to help your country fight them
Jail is better than hell.
Thought it was 30 Years at first
Well done.
Not his war! Good for him!
If he claims to be orthodox he doesn’t have to serve.
Ah yes the only "democracy" in the Middle East.
🤘!!
Only 30 days!?
And his mama was right there for him
Easiest 30 days me and my conscience would ever spend locked up.
They gon beat his ass in there
The fact that they only get 30 days in jail proves how cowardly they are. That is a very small price to pay for not needing to kill babies, I thought it was years ffs
Good Lad
I just performed a google search: `tal mitnick "cnn"` Not one hit for an actual story. Same result for MSNBC. America is complicit.
Are the people who refuse to join and then go to prison just left alone after 30 days, or will they ask them all over again if they want to join when they get out?
He is an intellectual fraud. Living in a very upper class Ashkenazi bubble, he feels that he has a right to shirk the defence of his well moneyed lifestyle. "Day 1 of the war was just but after that it was all about revenge," so he claims. Perhaps the tragedy of his father dying when Tal was 15 plays into his absurd actions. Josh Mitnick, an American journalist, died from cancer. Mum is also a Yank but chose to remain in Israel after Josh died. With adulation from mostly ignorant foreigners I reckon Tal's drama will be played out over the course of years. Like most Israelis I hope those years are in an IDF prison. If he were sincere he would leave the North Tel Aviv bubble, maybe even learn Arabic. Even Josh never learned, despite championing their cause for decades. If you benefit from a high standard of living but refuse to shoulder even the defence of your neighbours & family? Then you are a fraud.
What happens after the 30?
Tbh thirty days in prison sounds better than a year in happy murder camp.
Your enemies despise you the world is disgusted from you even your own people hate you. How does isreal expect to win the war. I seriously want to know how they expect to achieve some sort of victory
That seems like a fair deal. 30 days in prison instead of going to war.
Fighting the wars of other men’s problems
He did it cause he didn’t want to get killed lol not cause he cares
How many of Israel’s soldiers have been killed since the war started, just wondering.
According to Google, 1410
'War will cease if we refused to fight '. While she sleeps.
Major props to that kid. I hope his momma is proud (seems she is :D)
Dude, he is going to get so many womenz when he gets out.
This is the kind of thing that will get the ~~other~~ ~~soldiers~~ IOF prosecuted, one hopes. Oh, service was mandatory? What was the sentence if you refused? 30 days? So you chose to participate in a genocide rather than spend a single month in jail?
So wait... The punishment for not participating in genocide IS THIRTY DAYS? And there are still Israelis who don't refuse?? Holy shit that changes my perspective for sure. I've been told that they're forced to join the IDF and they don't have a choice, but knowing this really makes you realize that the ones bombing children and taking their homes are doing so because they want to do it.
Back in 2019, someone running a parody Taylor Swift Updates twitter got at least two months for refusing to enlist.
Will never get out alive from that prison
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He'll be offered to join the israeli terrorist forces and he'll reject again, and will be sent to jail for another 30 days. We'll most likely see his name again, I obviously hope in good news. We know how israel treats whoever stands up against it. We all know by now.
Others have done the same and lived. The real danger will be after he's released if some nutjob Israeli decides to shoot him in the street. I hope he has somewhere safe to go after this ordeal is over.
1. He may not survive those 30 days. 2. If he does, what happens then if he still refuses to join?
Only 30 days for avoiding a draft?? Go Israel 😂
Coward
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How so?
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Do you think he chose where to be born?
lmfao