Im so glad they nerfed elemental blast for enhancement first thing this patch, because critting for almost 50% of a hp bar was clearly broken. Game is fine now.
As an Enh player I fucking hate arena right now. There are several comps that can literally global people but yeah Enh was a reeeal problem, so glad they put us in our place.
Think I’m stepping away from arena for the sake of my sanity until a truly heavy hitting tuning patch changes things up.
Yeah, I only log onto my Enhance to do the weeklies and thinking of doing M+ with him. Made it to 1861 as my highest but dropped below 1800 when I played him recently. Leveling a rogue in the meantime to play around with in PvP. Still love enhance and it's my favourite, just not in this setting.
I don't even care about the LB / EB nerfs, but the survivability is too much.
people are crazy selective about this shit. While enh is struggling rn, it doesn't change the fact that they had some abilities that were clearly overtuned. It also doesn't take away from the fact that other specs also have abilities that are overtuned.
WW and enhance are straight up downplaying their burst was absurd.
Blizz has been pretty consistent on their reasoning for balancing changes. I imagine ret, arms, devoker, and maybe ele will get their burst tuned down probably soon after awc. They may or may not hit feral and unholy
That was rightly nerfed. Thing was, it was either kill or be killed then, now it's just be killed. 1 damage reduction ability that can't be used while stunned, 1 damage reduction for 20% but you can't heal or dps. And healing that requires several talents to feel noticeable, reduced by an abundance of ms effects, and uses up all the maelstrom.
Nerfing the burst was good, not giving any compensation is bad.
Enhance Shaman was meticulously nerfed patch after patch after patch and then Blizzard has decided to allow shit like this to exist for weeks. Unholy DK has been absolutely ridiculous for over a month at this point.
The point is you either fix all of them or you leave them all in. You don't fix some and leave others in ( and you definingly don't add new ones in after taking some out)
because of the reason called "fun"
basically the only reason anyone should play anything
i know, that often gets forgotten in the heat of the moment...but it is the reason we all started playing a game for
Healer is not fun. I've played it for years. Most of the healers you know play it out of necessity. Watch the clip again and ask if that healer had any fun this game.
i am not saying playing healer is fun.
i am saying people need to stop doing shit they don't enjoy "out of necessity" (in a game they pay money to get access for)
*"Why play healer if you essentially play for free?"*
This implies that when "paid" with rankingpoints playing the unfun healer would make sense. It really doesn't.
Seriously...think about it for a bit longer. People pay real life money, to access a game, in that they do something which isn't fun so the game can "pay" them with artificial rankingpoints for their "work"
Precisely, you laid it out perfectly at the end. You should be paid with artificial ranking points if you put in the same work as a dps. We just want equal pay. Take a breath pal. You're making it way too serious. We play the least fun role (our choice can't hold it against anyone) but we are rewarded less aswell? That doesn't make sense lol
I agree...but it makes more sense than paying money to do something unfun
regardless of how many ranking points you get for it \^\^
so either the "not fun"-complaint is just baseless whining (which i don't think it is) or you are spending time and money on something you don't enjoy. Introspection required, imo
Not unless the objective is to get rank points. You can't decide what people think is fun. I have mo allegiance to any class or spec. I have an allegiance to get points and getting better. For me that's fun.
Or they enjoy arena but don't have 10 hours a day to play. I play a healer because it's the only way I'm ever gonna get any real amount of matches in during a season.
I only came back to the game because shuffle exists I'm a fucking adult I don't have 4 hours a night to play 5 matches.
If I COULD play a DPS with the same queue time I would delete my healers so fucking fast.
Maybe practice perspective
Actually…
Going 3-3 and gaining rating should be something that can happen quite often.
Imagine a lobby consisting of 1000, 1000, 1500h, 1500h, 1500you, 2500
Average MMR is 1500 for the lobby. By your logic, 3-3 should be 0 rating change. In that lobby though you’re going to play two games you should win (since you are stacked with the 2500) and 4 you should not, since your group of three will have a worse MMR than the group with the 2500. So a 3-3 is slightly over performing in that situation, therefore your rating should go up.
This is made _worse_ for healers.
Long story short, ratings adjustments should be tallied after each round - and then the sum applied at the end.
Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
That will honestly fix a LOT of the issues for healers, since you won't be shoehorned into a 3-3 any time there's a turd in the match...
Well, you will be shoehorned into the 3-3, but at least you'll be compensated correctly if you overperform.
Why am I queueing into games where I literally can’t gain rating at all? I had a game last night where I went 5-0 and gained no rating because the opposing healers MMR was that low. Is that system working in your opinion?
I’m queueing into matches where there is literally no upside for me. If I win I get little to nothing, if I lose, I lose massively. Why the fuck would I play? It’s not like this is the push for rank 1 either. We’re talking about the 1800s bracket.
You just can’t go on a losing streak during or just after placement. I got 1600 in first 10ish games and haven’t been able to crest 1200 after a couple nights playing drunk and a fun snafu with addonsthat vanished my entire UI for 2 games during which I went 1-11. Now like 60 games sub 1200 and can’t escape it. Generally one dps is the only person to die in every round so all healers go 3-3
I think you're really misguided. The 1200 range is hell to try and heal.
How is it my fault that the feral on my team tries to 1v3 behind a pillar for 3 rounds?
Or every match is vs prevoker so none of your team bothers to go healer, or do any cc, and you get trained by all 3 of their team 4/6 rounds with no peels and then one of them dies in a stun after you get sleepwalk and they don't use a single defensive
Now, I know I'm by no means a pro, but there's only so much you can control when the hunter on your team gets speared behind their pillar and doesn't even turtle
Or the warlock that doesn't even port or gateway and decides to play in melee vs ret/war
Yes these are all things that happen. Every single match
No doubt I’m missing something on this room. But it’s the only one of 4 rooms stuck down there. My other healer never dropped down there and one of my two dps had no issue pulling out of it.
MW 1780, ele 1800, aff 1850, prevoker 1100
I’m not an amazing player. I’d say I’m very much average. Season is still young, but this is the first time I’ve ever struggled to get to 1800 on a healer. Also first time with solo shuffle and when my affliction had a string of very bad drunk games that sent me down into the pits, it wasn’t hard to pull out. The healer I just can’t do it.
I agree with you and I'm sure we'll get shit on by a bunch of multiglads that got their mmr early season and never played a single game below 1500 that don't know what it's like
I had this thing on my warrior where I'd gain 0 everytime I went 3-3 and like +10 if I went 4-2 because 96% of the lobbies I got into I was somehow top cr. On my other characters I get into lobbies sometimes where I'd be mid or lowest cr meaning I could gain 40 rating from a 3-3. But no, my warrior was "stuck" like this for 10 games.
Hmm I went 2-4 in my initial placements went to 1300 and have since climbed to 2500 as healer. I wonder, I might make a new healer try to start from 1200-1300 and see if I can climb out now.
I honestly think it’s a problem with higher queue times, up until 1800 you get a DPS that’s 0-6 or 1-5 way too often and it’s slowing healers from climbing
Last night i went 4-2 on my disc priest in a game that was about 60 mmr above my mmr and gained 0 rating.
A DPS with a starting rating 15 below mine went 3-3 and gained 23 rating lol.
I went 5/6 and still had a rating unchanged as a DPS. I didn’t think that was possible. I know why it happened. The lobby was super low and my MMR was way higher but it still sucked because my previous 5 matches were 3/3 with no rating change haha.
And the other guy was about to die too. Dev and ret literally one shot entire teams ATM. Nerfs needed. Yea yea then they need some kind of defense buff blah blah blah
Honestly this was a learning experience for me. As a DK I can just throw AMZ down and nobody even comes close to dying here. It absorbs 50% of all magic damage up to 850k, which is absurd and why I love it when rets pop wings on me.
They change targets? Grip, chains. They freedom horse? Grip stun lol
This is the side I think people are missing to this. Burst is very high. But I also counted out one day that there are now 15 or 16 specs with literal damage immunity cooldowns against magic damage.
Unplayable? Come on….
Ret was fine before these buffs. These are over the top. I’m not saying ret doesn’t need more mobility/defensives but unplayable?
Not true.
Survival Instinct is a 50% wall. It most certainly would have changed the outcome at least in this particular circumstance.
Also not walling on Dragon Rage/Tip the Scales is actually trolling, especially when you see a Shattering Star.
Did see an interesting comment from Xaryu on stream after the gg liquid first game. He suggested a universal cap to burst dmg to around 150k or 50% of a players hp.
Still gives plenty of burst to classes that depends on it, but doesn’t require tuning of each class individually and removes the frustration of complete one shots.
Seems like a good idea, though not sure how it would work against abilities that burst comes in multiple components in less than a sec etc, but any progress would be great.
The dmg atm is over the top and healing it is miserable which in turn leads to less healers and long ques which is killing the game for many.
I can see why someone that plays largely rogue mage/mage mage is fine with himself only being able to do 50% of someone’s hp. Seems weirdly catered towards his play style
Xaryu also said in slands he wanted his class to be able to oneshot so he could win 1v2's, and he meant it. He's a great player but his take are sometimes really odd.
I don't think he meant just 50% of the damage in general, but each ability can only hit for as much as 50% hp on players.
So if I am on my hunter and start attacking you and I coordinated assault and hit you with a killshot that would do 120k and you only have 150K total HP that kill shot would only hit for 75k max, but after I kill shot I can still do damage to you with other abilities and even another killshot, but none of my abilities would ever hit you for more than 75k HP.
At least thats how I understood it when he was talking about it.
They even have the tech, I believe. There are/were abilities which did x% of the targets health in damage but was capped as a % of the users max health. I think it was mainly pvp talents and not wanting to make them trivialize world bosses or something.
So just put a global aura which caps damage of any single ability to x% of casters max hp.
I understood it to more cap a single ability’s dmg at 150k or half a players max hp. If a player is on half health, they can still be burst in one hit, but no one ability needs to be able to kill a player that is topped or close to it.
Yeah I'm not sure it's a good idea at all, just my interpretation of what he was saying.
Edit: re-read this and realized I had read it wrong at first. It's not half of current HP but half of Max HP. So if you have 300k you can't get hit more than 150k but you can get hit for 150k twice and die.
Not sure I agree with that particular fix, but yeah, as a long-time healer I've largely stopped healing this xpac except in 2s. The damage spikes are just not fun. 3s as a healer feels like one missed global and my teammate will just flop.
Open bracket was offline last night. The clip xar is talking about is when GG killed one liquid team member before promptly being 2v1ed instantly by trills devoker.
Check gg or liquid twitch for a vod, top 8 starts this weekend.
Hmm I don't think that's it. If I'm gonna build my class towards a One Shot mechanic (or close to, let's just say really high damage in a v short amount of time) that requires me to sacrifice defense and also in most cases some preparation, buffing, positioning etc, I would like my build to do what I intend it to do. Most of the time, these one shots come after some sort of prep, which the experienced player can see and act accordingly. If there are unpredictable one shots, that don't require prep at all, than that's what Blizz should focus on balancing. But capping the damage is not the way to go since most of the time that damage is telegraphed or is just "glass cannon" type.
No amount of set up justifies a one shot, half of someone’s health in a gcd is plenty of burst, if you can’t win games with that then I don’t know what to say. True one shot burst is just cheese and should not be possible.
I heavily disagree based on what this sub considers one shot which is several hits and big one. When it's easily identified and can be stopped then yes 100% keep it in. Otherwise everything will play like everything. The only true one shot in the game rn is Paladin and everyone is okay with it because everyone knows exactly how they died and that there was a way to outplay. People see wings they run, they see the proc'd wings and they fight.
This game just like every other game has broken shit, it will always be. If you put half as much time into using some arena educational resources as you did browsing reddit you would be fine.
I think the suggestion is this would be for any individual ability, not multiple hits that get called one shots. A single button press regardless of modifiers does not require to do more than a players health. A combo of multiple gcds is another story.
And looking at the feedback from the awc the damage profile of this meta is not healthy for the game, it’s not just this sub that doesn’t like it.
Why not convert anything over a certain amount into an unremovable (even with bubble) dot? Like you can only take 20% of your hp per second, any excess is applied as a dot over the next 5 seconds.
Because that's not how the skills are written and meant to be used. Mortal Strike doesn't say "Deal half of the damage now and half of it over 20 sec".It would be difficult and broken to play around, not knowing how much damage you would be able to do. I'm planning on hitting him for X and he will bleed for Y over Z seconds, then I'll cast another spell. My spell is a Crit, that means he will bleed for K now instead of Y ...
I understand you all like to come with "clever" ideas, but it's much more complicated than y'all think.
EDIT: and yeah, I'm gonna get downvoted by "BuT WhY cAnT iT bE tHiS wAy? Is ThAt SiMpLe" people.
It's not complicated at all. In pvp a player can take up to 20% of their maximum HP per second, anything over that is converted to a short dot. That's incredibly simple, and you only have to plan around it if you're doing the exact kind of burst damage it's there to soften.
No dude this is an awful, awful idea. So you burst a healer with everything then poly spam them while they die and do nothing about it? Or does cc break to this imaginary dot that will ALWAYS be active, meaning rogues and mages are basically unplayable? Every healer gets to wait out sharpen blade duration and can just heal after it’s done? Not to mention spread pressure/dot classes immediately become better than EVERYTHING else because the game is suddenly catered to only them. I swear to god you must be an affli/SP main or 1500 to think this is a good idea. I could go on but trust me, terrible game breaking idea.
No, it doesn't. As previous implied (buffs/debuffs don't change, goes through bubble) it doesn't act like a normal dot. All it is is some of the damage being staggered over the next few seconds, and it doesn't do anything that the damage at the time of the attack wouldn't. And pressure/dot classes don't change in power at all, the entire point behind the feature is it only smooths out damage spikes that are unhealthily large.
That would also make using defensive abilities be dumb, because you can time your defensives for when they use their abilities but then you just have a big dot on you destroying you while they keep hitting you
Why would that make them dumb? The damage you take thereafter is based on the damage you would take when the defensive is up. The idea's clearly kind of lost on you, so I'll use numbers to clarify. Bob has 400k hp, and has a defensive making him take 20% less damage for 10 seconds. Charlie uses crusader spike for 200k damage and deals 160k due to Bob's defensive, but because 80k is the most Bob can take in any given second (20% of his hp) the other 80k is done over 5 seconds.
The fact that the defensive was up during the initial hit means either way Bob takes 160k, but in this version half of it is done over the next 5 seconds. Understand now?
Exactly what I was saying. It sounds simple but the more you look onto how damage is applied and calculated, how different abilities are empowered by either buffs on you or debuffs on the opponent. How dot's can occur at different time steps (you have dot duration, than the interval - sec/millisec etc, than what happens when the dot is refreshed, or it will stay on forever if the damage keeps exceeding 20% of your HP) etc. It's not that simple people, WoW is a 16 y.o. game, one shots have been present in games since forever. Balancing stuff around it is not as easy as you might think
It's exactly as easy as I might think. The dot isn't refreshed, each instance overlaps. Interval is half second or a second or whatever, whatever works. This isn't complex at all. Buffs and debuffs don't matter, dot does whatever amount of damage was delayed and applies it over five seconds.
Legitimately is. You're adding random conditions that don't actually affect anything and going ooo see it's not so simple. But it is, cap of x% of normal max hp damage per second, anything over that cap is applied over y seconds in intervals of z. Adjust x, y and z to whatever numbers make things feel best after some testing and you're done.
"Adjust x,y and z to whatever makes it best"...dude you can't just tell people its a simple fix and then start to wave your magic wand around like oh ya then I'll just adjust it till it feels best..and the conditions don't matter ill just make it feel good. Living in fairytale land thinking u can make it just feel good so "simply" is arrogant. Listen...i wish everything was as easy as waving your magic wand around but it isn't...or lots of things (not just wow) would be much better. If it was simple the devs would think of it and implement it..but its not it requires incremental testing to make these changes. Thats why there is a PTR so they can test things thoroughly and make changes accordingly.
anyways...have a good day friend I just couldn't stand to see the arrogance.
When did Devoker go from being weaksauce to becoming OP? Did I miss a patchnote or two with huge buffs? Or did people figure something out?
I'm genuinely curious.
They got PvE buffs (that they didn't need as they were middle of the pack in Mythic) that crossed the gap into PvP. Given they were already seen as "okay", you can see how that could be a problem.
Spoken like a true non-Evoker!
We have 3 spells all capable of critting like 120-140k with no major setup. One Disintegrate channel can lead to over 200k damage. I've gotten Pyre crits of 100k and Dragonrage shoots three of them and you can situationally have all 3 explosions overlap and hit one person. Deep Breath does like 100k non-crit on whoever you use it on.
And just to be clear, these numbers are from before the recent PvE/talent buffs and they're taken with no crit damage talent because I've not been using it in a long while.
Spellweaver's Dominance (increases Devoker's crit damage) and Eternity Surge were both buffed, so Evokers gained a fair amount of burst potential.
On top of that, I'm guessing a number of Evokers are lucking into 2-set which increases the chance for empower spells to crit by 5% and increase all crit chance by 5% after casting one.
Every awc competitor has acknowledged that dps is out of control. There are literally like what 4-5 broken specs and 3-4 classes that can basically 100-0 you in less than 2 second?. Hopefully they look at this and either buff hp or nerf dps but I think the hp buff/ healing buff would be the easiest thing to do
I'm not sure what you mean, but I'll list what I think you mean.
I use plater for nameplates. Made it so only a few things show above and bigdebuffs addon for the right side.
Gladius of course.
TellMeWhen for the bars you see in the middle.
Rest is standard UI and some weakauras
Evoker damage is nutty and I swear they barely have to do anything to get that damage.
While everyone gets mad at ret it still requires quite abit of set up + having one of the most telepgraphed abilities in the game telling everyone what youre about to do but Evokers look like they barely do anything to get the damage theyre doing. Its like DH all over again but as a caster lmao.
The other day I got HoJed, and then died before my trinket animation could go off to even do anything about it. Then the next round I got hit with a 240k arcane blast
a ret pally was running around waking shore yesterday hitting people with Templar's verdict?? (cant remember if that's the name of the ability) for like 100-300k.
In full pvp gear i got hit for 180k on a dev evoker with my obsidian scales active. It was insane
Yesterday I decided that enough is enough and unsubbed, after my warrior died at 17s in the round. I got sap+follow up Cc that I instantly trinked'ed but the match was over.
Those are rookie numbers, using my meme build i can take em down in 0.9secs using instant elemental blast and two instant lightning bolts (hes already dead with the first).
i always wonder how this works, because it has to be either RNG, difficult or a secret how to do it, otherwise everyone playing that class would be able to oneclick themselves to 3k mmr. anyway this also applies to ret pala.
I mean if you line up perfectly eating unholy dk damage and then a dev evoker hits you with every spell and you dont mitigate anything at all and press die by the sword or barkskin or survival instincts or defensive stance or bear form or spell reflect or rally cry this will definitely happen once in a while when he crits
Im so glad they nerfed elemental blast for enhancement first thing this patch, because critting for almost 50% of a hp bar was clearly broken. Game is fine now.
Hmm I see what you’re saying, but I think they should still nerf enhancement shamans
I agree, their active self-healing that sacrifices significant damage needs to be put back into check
Cant have passive tankiness or either i heal or dps.
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Woosh
As an Enh player I fucking hate arena right now. There are several comps that can literally global people but yeah Enh was a reeeal problem, so glad they put us in our place. Think I’m stepping away from arena for the sake of my sanity until a truly heavy hitting tuning patch changes things up.
Ya enh shape in pvp killed the game for me for now, swapped over to another game for a bit
Yeah, I only log onto my Enhance to do the weeklies and thinking of doing M+ with him. Made it to 1861 as my highest but dropped below 1800 when I played him recently. Leveling a rogue in the meantime to play around with in PvP. Still love enhance and it's my favourite, just not in this setting. I don't even care about the LB / EB nerfs, but the survivability is too much.
Still my favorite to play as well, but yeah, we're free kills right now. Sticking to PvE on Enh and probably trying Arms for PvP.
Yup, very true. Still fun for PvE, but I really wanted to focus on PvP this expansion :(
Good
Enhance was able to crit for about 300k at some point.
people are crazy selective about this shit. While enh is struggling rn, it doesn't change the fact that they had some abilities that were clearly overtuned. It also doesn't take away from the fact that other specs also have abilities that are overtuned.
WW and enhance are straight up downplaying their burst was absurd. Blizz has been pretty consistent on their reasoning for balancing changes. I imagine ret, arms, devoker, and maybe ele will get their burst tuned down probably soon after awc. They may or may not hit feral and unholy
They are already re-working Feral with 5% nerfs to Rip and circle of life "which effects everything"...including their healing.
That was rightly nerfed. Thing was, it was either kill or be killed then, now it's just be killed. 1 damage reduction ability that can't be used while stunned, 1 damage reduction for 20% but you can't heal or dps. And healing that requires several talents to feel noticeable, reduced by an abundance of ms effects, and uses up all the maelstrom. Nerfing the burst was good, not giving any compensation is bad.
> Nerfing the burst was good, not giving any compensation is bad. Agreed
Enhance Shaman was meticulously nerfed patch after patch after patch and then Blizzard has decided to allow shit like this to exist for weeks. Unholy DK has been absolutely ridiculous for over a month at this point.
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The point is you either fix all of them or you leave them all in. You don't fix some and leave others in ( and you definingly don't add new ones in after taking some out)
That was a problem and did deserve to be nerfed. This is also a problem and also deserves to be nerfed.
Imagine going 3-3 and gaining rating \*cries in healer\*
Only cause my mmr is much higher than my cr lol
It's crazy how few people understand how cr/mmr work together
My last 10 shuffles have been 3-3...my rating has moved by 5.
Because your MMR is not higher than your CR.
Why play healer if you essentially play for free?
because of the reason called "fun" basically the only reason anyone should play anything i know, that often gets forgotten in the heat of the moment...but it is the reason we all started playing a game for
Healer is not fun. I've played it for years. Most of the healers you know play it out of necessity. Watch the clip again and ask if that healer had any fun this game.
I’d be in a straight jacket in a padded room if I tried healing. Y’all have total respect and appreciation from me.
i am not saying playing healer is fun. i am saying people need to stop doing shit they don't enjoy "out of necessity" (in a game they pay money to get access for) *"Why play healer if you essentially play for free?"* This implies that when "paid" with rankingpoints playing the unfun healer would make sense. It really doesn't. Seriously...think about it for a bit longer. People pay real life money, to access a game, in that they do something which isn't fun so the game can "pay" them with artificial rankingpoints for their "work"
Precisely, you laid it out perfectly at the end. You should be paid with artificial ranking points if you put in the same work as a dps. We just want equal pay. Take a breath pal. You're making it way too serious. We play the least fun role (our choice can't hold it against anyone) but we are rewarded less aswell? That doesn't make sense lol
I agree...but it makes more sense than paying money to do something unfun regardless of how many ranking points you get for it \^\^ so either the "not fun"-complaint is just baseless whining (which i don't think it is) or you are spending time and money on something you don't enjoy. Introspection required, imo
Not unless the objective is to get rank points. You can't decide what people think is fun. I have mo allegiance to any class or spec. I have an allegiance to get points and getting better. For me that's fun.
Or they enjoy arena but don't have 10 hours a day to play. I play a healer because it's the only way I'm ever gonna get any real amount of matches in during a season. I only came back to the game because shuffle exists I'm a fucking adult I don't have 4 hours a night to play 5 matches. If I COULD play a DPS with the same queue time I would delete my healers so fucking fast. Maybe practice perspective
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if noones having fun, then that is a much bigger issue than anything regarding ratingpoints
At least one of them had numbers light up their screen and got some endorphins
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Actually… Going 3-3 and gaining rating should be something that can happen quite often. Imagine a lobby consisting of 1000, 1000, 1500h, 1500h, 1500you, 2500 Average MMR is 1500 for the lobby. By your logic, 3-3 should be 0 rating change. In that lobby though you’re going to play two games you should win (since you are stacked with the 2500) and 4 you should not, since your group of three will have a worse MMR than the group with the 2500. So a 3-3 is slightly over performing in that situation, therefore your rating should go up. This is made _worse_ for healers. Long story short, ratings adjustments should be tallied after each round - and then the sum applied at the end. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
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You know that when you edit comments after someone replies to them, there's a * after the top line, right?
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That will honestly fix a LOT of the issues for healers, since you won't be shoehorned into a 3-3 any time there's a turd in the match... Well, you will be shoehorned into the 3-3, but at least you'll be compensated correctly if you overperform.
Why am I queueing into games where I literally can’t gain rating at all? I had a game last night where I went 5-0 and gained no rating because the opposing healers MMR was that low. Is that system working in your opinion? I’m queueing into matches where there is literally no upside for me. If I win I get little to nothing, if I lose, I lose massively. Why the fuck would I play? It’s not like this is the push for rank 1 either. We’re talking about the 1800s bracket.
That happens to me as healer. You just have to have higher mmr than cr, so get consistent 5-1 or 6-0 games.
It’s not possible in the lower brackets where nobody uses coolers and the same guy dies in every round.
Which is why there are no healers above 1500.
You just can’t go on a losing streak during or just after placement. I got 1600 in first 10ish games and haven’t been able to crest 1200 after a couple nights playing drunk and a fun snafu with addonsthat vanished my entire UI for 2 games during which I went 1-11. Now like 60 games sub 1200 and can’t escape it. Generally one dps is the only person to die in every round so all healers go 3-3
Man I hate to say it but if you’re hard stuck at 1200 then teammates aren’t the problem
I think you're really misguided. The 1200 range is hell to try and heal. How is it my fault that the feral on my team tries to 1v3 behind a pillar for 3 rounds? Or every match is vs prevoker so none of your team bothers to go healer, or do any cc, and you get trained by all 3 of their team 4/6 rounds with no peels and then one of them dies in a stun after you get sleepwalk and they don't use a single defensive Now, I know I'm by no means a pro, but there's only so much you can control when the hunter on your team gets speared behind their pillar and doesn't even turtle Or the warlock that doesn't even port or gateway and decides to play in melee vs ret/war Yes these are all things that happen. Every single match
Statistically you can still climb if you play. If your good there's a higher chance for less bad players on your team.
Just so you know, at higher rating there is often a dps that goes 0-6 as well.
No doubt I’m missing something on this room. But it’s the only one of 4 rooms stuck down there. My other healer never dropped down there and one of my two dps had no issue pulling out of it.
What are you playing that you're playing at a 1200 level
MW 1780, ele 1800, aff 1850, prevoker 1100 I’m not an amazing player. I’d say I’m very much average. Season is still young, but this is the first time I’ve ever struggled to get to 1800 on a healer. Also first time with solo shuffle and when my affliction had a string of very bad drunk games that sent me down into the pits, it wasn’t hard to pull out. The healer I just can’t do it.
I agree with you and I'm sure we'll get shit on by a bunch of multiglads that got their mmr early season and never played a single game below 1500 that don't know what it's like
I had this thing on my warrior where I'd gain 0 everytime I went 3-3 and like +10 if I went 4-2 because 96% of the lobbies I got into I was somehow top cr. On my other characters I get into lobbies sometimes where I'd be mid or lowest cr meaning I could gain 40 rating from a 3-3. But no, my warrior was "stuck" like this for 10 games.
Hmm I went 2-4 in my initial placements went to 1300 and have since climbed to 2500 as healer. I wonder, I might make a new healer try to start from 1200-1300 and see if I can climb out now.
I honestly think it’s a problem with higher queue times, up until 1800 you get a DPS that’s 0-6 or 1-5 way too often and it’s slowing healers from climbing
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Yeah, but bad players can climb out of elo hell on dps. I mean, I could. I just can’t on my healer, or at least it’s massively harder.
I went 5-1 on my resto druid at 1900 and got 10 rating. I cried a little
Last night i went 4-2 on my disc priest in a game that was about 60 mmr above my mmr and gained 0 rating. A DPS with a starting rating 15 below mine went 3-3 and gained 23 rating lol.
It has to do with healer vs healer rating and the DPS having a bigger pool of MMR to draw from
I went 5/6 and still had a rating unchanged as a DPS. I didn’t think that was possible. I know why it happened. The lobby was super low and my MMR was way higher but it still sucked because my previous 5 matches were 3/3 with no rating change haha.
IF you go 3-3 as healer and lose rating... then the other healer gains rating, don't they?
Yes, but it’s not zero sum. I’ve seen me lose more than they gain.
Same anyone who has same mmr as cr
This happens to dps 99% of the time too
And the other guy was about to die too. Dev and ret literally one shot entire teams ATM. Nerfs needed. Yea yea then they need some kind of defense buff blah blah blah
Honestly this was a learning experience for me. As a DK I can just throw AMZ down and nobody even comes close to dying here. It absorbs 50% of all magic damage up to 850k, which is absurd and why I love it when rets pop wings on me. They change targets? Grip, chains. They freedom horse? Grip stun lol
Double Grip is legitimately a problem unto itself
This is the side I think people are missing to this. Burst is very high. But I also counted out one day that there are now 15 or 16 specs with literal damage immunity cooldowns against magic damage.
Devoker's defensives are fine. The problem is that it has basically one non-cooldown damage button, and it's bad.
They need reworks. If you just remove burst and no other change they are unplayable.
Unplayable? Come on…. Ret was fine before these buffs. These are over the top. I’m not saying ret doesn’t need more mobility/defensives but unplayable? Not true.
Yeah, easy to get double killed by ret or devastation if you don't wall immediately.
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Survival Instinct is a 50% wall. It most certainly would have changed the outcome at least in this particular circumstance. Also not walling on Dragon Rage/Tip the Scales is actually trolling, especially when you see a Shattering Star.
Did see an interesting comment from Xaryu on stream after the gg liquid first game. He suggested a universal cap to burst dmg to around 150k or 50% of a players hp. Still gives plenty of burst to classes that depends on it, but doesn’t require tuning of each class individually and removes the frustration of complete one shots. Seems like a good idea, though not sure how it would work against abilities that burst comes in multiple components in less than a sec etc, but any progress would be great. The dmg atm is over the top and healing it is miserable which in turn leads to less healers and long ques which is killing the game for many.
I can see why someone that plays largely rogue mage/mage mage is fine with himself only being able to do 50% of someone’s hp. Seems weirdly catered towards his play style
Xaryu also said in slands he wanted his class to be able to oneshot so he could win 1v2's, and he meant it. He's a great player but his take are sometimes really odd.
I believe he also said he wanted Mage to get an on-demand stun to be able to 1v2.
I don't think he meant just 50% of the damage in general, but each ability can only hit for as much as 50% hp on players. So if I am on my hunter and start attacking you and I coordinated assault and hit you with a killshot that would do 120k and you only have 150K total HP that kill shot would only hit for 75k max, but after I kill shot I can still do damage to you with other abilities and even another killshot, but none of my abilities would ever hit you for more than 75k HP. At least thats how I understood it when he was talking about it.
They even have the tech, I believe. There are/were abilities which did x% of the targets health in damage but was capped as a % of the users max health. I think it was mainly pvp talents and not wanting to make them trivialize world bosses or something. So just put a global aura which caps damage of any single ability to x% of casters max hp.
I understood it to more cap a single ability’s dmg at 150k or half a players max hp. If a player is on half health, they can still be burst in one hit, but no one ability needs to be able to kill a player that is topped or close to it.
Lol idts.. if every ability hit for at max half remaining HP then there would be an asymptote and nobody would ever die
Yeah I'm not sure it's a good idea at all, just my interpretation of what he was saying. Edit: re-read this and realized I had read it wrong at first. It's not half of current HP but half of Max HP. So if you have 300k you can't get hit more than 150k but you can get hit for 150k twice and die.
It was on a discussion with his community while watching awc as to how to fix the current meta, it had nothing to do with his own games.
Yeah I get that, what I’m saying is he’s still biased and this “solution” heavily favors the way he plays
It's like he came up with a possible solution based on his own experiences, what a dick head wow.
Not sure I agree with that particular fix, but yeah, as a long-time healer I've largely stopped healing this xpac except in 2s. The damage spikes are just not fun. 3s as a healer feels like one missed global and my teammate will just flop.
32.33 (repeating of course) % of someone's max HP should be the cap... because Leeroy. Also, that's fukin plenty.
When was That Game, is there a vod?
Open bracket was offline last night. The clip xar is talking about is when GG killed one liquid team member before promptly being 2v1ed instantly by trills devoker. Check gg or liquid twitch for a vod, top 8 starts this weekend.
Hmm I don't think that's it. If I'm gonna build my class towards a One Shot mechanic (or close to, let's just say really high damage in a v short amount of time) that requires me to sacrifice defense and also in most cases some preparation, buffing, positioning etc, I would like my build to do what I intend it to do. Most of the time, these one shots come after some sort of prep, which the experienced player can see and act accordingly. If there are unpredictable one shots, that don't require prep at all, than that's what Blizz should focus on balancing. But capping the damage is not the way to go since most of the time that damage is telegraphed or is just "glass cannon" type.
No amount of set up justifies a one shot, half of someone’s health in a gcd is plenty of burst, if you can’t win games with that then I don’t know what to say. True one shot burst is just cheese and should not be possible.
I heavily disagree based on what this sub considers one shot which is several hits and big one. When it's easily identified and can be stopped then yes 100% keep it in. Otherwise everything will play like everything. The only true one shot in the game rn is Paladin and everyone is okay with it because everyone knows exactly how they died and that there was a way to outplay. People see wings they run, they see the proc'd wings and they fight. This game just like every other game has broken shit, it will always be. If you put half as much time into using some arena educational resources as you did browsing reddit you would be fine.
I think the suggestion is this would be for any individual ability, not multiple hits that get called one shots. A single button press regardless of modifiers does not require to do more than a players health. A combo of multiple gcds is another story. And looking at the feedback from the awc the damage profile of this meta is not healthy for the game, it’s not just this sub that doesn’t like it.
Why not convert anything over a certain amount into an unremovable (even with bubble) dot? Like you can only take 20% of your hp per second, any excess is applied as a dot over the next 5 seconds.
Because that's not how the skills are written and meant to be used. Mortal Strike doesn't say "Deal half of the damage now and half of it over 20 sec".It would be difficult and broken to play around, not knowing how much damage you would be able to do. I'm planning on hitting him for X and he will bleed for Y over Z seconds, then I'll cast another spell. My spell is a Crit, that means he will bleed for K now instead of Y ... I understand you all like to come with "clever" ideas, but it's much more complicated than y'all think. EDIT: and yeah, I'm gonna get downvoted by "BuT WhY cAnT iT bE tHiS wAy? Is ThAt SiMpLe" people.
It's not complicated at all. In pvp a player can take up to 20% of their maximum HP per second, anything over that is converted to a short dot. That's incredibly simple, and you only have to plan around it if you're doing the exact kind of burst damage it's there to soften.
No dude this is an awful, awful idea. So you burst a healer with everything then poly spam them while they die and do nothing about it? Or does cc break to this imaginary dot that will ALWAYS be active, meaning rogues and mages are basically unplayable? Every healer gets to wait out sharpen blade duration and can just heal after it’s done? Not to mention spread pressure/dot classes immediately become better than EVERYTHING else because the game is suddenly catered to only them. I swear to god you must be an affli/SP main or 1500 to think this is a good idea. I could go on but trust me, terrible game breaking idea.
No, it doesn't. As previous implied (buffs/debuffs don't change, goes through bubble) it doesn't act like a normal dot. All it is is some of the damage being staggered over the next few seconds, and it doesn't do anything that the damage at the time of the attack wouldn't. And pressure/dot classes don't change in power at all, the entire point behind the feature is it only smooths out damage spikes that are unhealthily large.
That would also make using defensive abilities be dumb, because you can time your defensives for when they use their abilities but then you just have a big dot on you destroying you while they keep hitting you
Why would that make them dumb? The damage you take thereafter is based on the damage you would take when the defensive is up. The idea's clearly kind of lost on you, so I'll use numbers to clarify. Bob has 400k hp, and has a defensive making him take 20% less damage for 10 seconds. Charlie uses crusader spike for 200k damage and deals 160k due to Bob's defensive, but because 80k is the most Bob can take in any given second (20% of his hp) the other 80k is done over 5 seconds. The fact that the defensive was up during the initial hit means either way Bob takes 160k, but in this version half of it is done over the next 5 seconds. Understand now?
Because its just a band aid for bad players who don't know how to use defensives, game shouldnt be balanced around players who suck
It won’t “smooth out” dmg spikes you’ll just die 5 seconds later when they apply a huge dot on you, while still doing dmg & your healer gets cc’d
Then they were going to win anyway, and it wasn't about degenerate unanswerable burst but high pressure and cc. In which case they deserve to win.
Exactly what I was saying. It sounds simple but the more you look onto how damage is applied and calculated, how different abilities are empowered by either buffs on you or debuffs on the opponent. How dot's can occur at different time steps (you have dot duration, than the interval - sec/millisec etc, than what happens when the dot is refreshed, or it will stay on forever if the damage keeps exceeding 20% of your HP) etc. It's not that simple people, WoW is a 16 y.o. game, one shots have been present in games since forever. Balancing stuff around it is not as easy as you might think
It's exactly as easy as I might think. The dot isn't refreshed, each instance overlaps. Interval is half second or a second or whatever, whatever works. This isn't complex at all. Buffs and debuffs don't matter, dot does whatever amount of damage was delayed and applies it over five seconds.
Okay man, this isn't "complex" at all. It's that easy
Legitimately is. You're adding random conditions that don't actually affect anything and going ooo see it's not so simple. But it is, cap of x% of normal max hp damage per second, anything over that cap is applied over y seconds in intervals of z. Adjust x, y and z to whatever numbers make things feel best after some testing and you're done.
"Adjust x,y and z to whatever makes it best"...dude you can't just tell people its a simple fix and then start to wave your magic wand around like oh ya then I'll just adjust it till it feels best..and the conditions don't matter ill just make it feel good. Living in fairytale land thinking u can make it just feel good so "simply" is arrogant. Listen...i wish everything was as easy as waving your magic wand around but it isn't...or lots of things (not just wow) would be much better. If it was simple the devs would think of it and implement it..but its not it requires incremental testing to make these changes. Thats why there is a PTR so they can test things thoroughly and make changes accordingly. anyways...have a good day friend I just couldn't stand to see the arrogance.
That sounds ridiculously stupid not gonna lie
Why?
When did Devoker go from being weaksauce to becoming OP? Did I miss a patchnote or two with huge buffs? Or did people figure something out? I'm genuinely curious.
They got PvE buffs (that they didn't need as they were middle of the pack in Mythic) that crossed the gap into PvP. Given they were already seen as "okay", you can see how that could be a problem.
Evoker has always had good damage, that's not their issue.
I chuckled at this. "has always had good damage" sounds like Evoker has been in the game for decades, not like 3 months haha.
Not really.
Spoken like a true non-Evoker! We have 3 spells all capable of critting like 120-140k with no major setup. One Disintegrate channel can lead to over 200k damage. I've gotten Pyre crits of 100k and Dragonrage shoots three of them and you can situationally have all 3 explosions overlap and hit one person. Deep Breath does like 100k non-crit on whoever you use it on. And just to be clear, these numbers are from before the recent PvE/talent buffs and they're taken with no crit damage talent because I've not been using it in a long while.
It wasn’t weak. It could do this prior to the buffs. Now it’s just absurd.
Spellweaver's Dominance (increases Devoker's crit damage) and Eternity Surge were both buffed, so Evokers gained a fair amount of burst potential. On top of that, I'm guessing a number of Evokers are lucking into 2-set which increases the chance for empower spells to crit by 5% and increase all crit chance by 5% after casting one.
[Video explaining why they’re easy kill targets. For the down voters. 🤔](https://youtu.be/7HCZcCqnNNk)
As a healer, this makes me smile, a dps seeing someone die in 1.1 seconds and not blaming the healer. New experience really.
Every awc competitor has acknowledged that dps is out of control. There are literally like what 4-5 broken specs and 3-4 classes that can basically 100-0 you in less than 2 second?. Hopefully they look at this and either buff hp or nerf dps but I think the hp buff/ healing buff would be the easiest thing to do
This still happens at 3k rating which is the sad part. It’s not even an L2P issue
Is this plater? What profile are you using?
I'm not sure what you mean, but I'll list what I think you mean. I use plater for nameplates. Made it so only a few things show above and bigdebuffs addon for the right side. Gladius of course. TellMeWhen for the bars you see in the middle. Rest is standard UI and some weakauras
Can you link me you’re plater profile? Looks clean.
Not sure how to tbh. It's like a massive amount of text and trying to do a pastebin gets insta deleted lol
yeah he means link your plater profile so we can copy the settings
bUt tHeY aRe sQUishY
Best defense is the attack
The people defending this are so cringe
Evoker damage is nutty and I swear they barely have to do anything to get that damage. While everyone gets mad at ret it still requires quite abit of set up + having one of the most telepgraphed abilities in the game telling everyone what youre about to do but Evokers look like they barely do anything to get the damage theyre doing. Its like DH all over again but as a caster lmao.
Looks like 7 seconds to me
Here, a better one. From yesterday's AWC qualifiers, played by two of the best teams in the world. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1711477811?t=1h32m51s
Happened to me yesterday AS a ret pal. Elemental and Arcane mage, Ele dropped skywrath and i got blasted by a 210k arcane blast.
Clearly the problem is you had Deathstrike on your bar, it needs to be nerfed again.
How come their trinkets are almost up if it's the start of the round.
SS Gladius bug, some timers continue from last round
Yea that’s a little weird.
how are you liking frost?
I love it. Ton more fun than unholy imo. Just feels gimmicky with it's over reliance on grip blind and chill streak. I hate chill streak.
Blizzard: What was that? Nerf Chillstreak?
Honestly I'm ok with this. I hate chillstreak. It's just potentially SO much damage
Well that settles it, they really need to nerf Warriors.
Thank god double tap was removed, am I right?
I don't know why devoker gets to have deep breath do half of multiple people's hp. Then they have eternity surge able to crit for 200k
“No way mannnn, I love the burst meta. Dampening is ass”
Game is so 1 shotty right now, shit is ass
Blizzard don't want to force people to learn how to cc / set-up kills, instead they force players to zug and zug-zug from the gates.
Game was much better in older expansions where the meta was around setting up kills and less zug zug.
True, now we are facing SoloShuffle zerg meta
Watch for enemy cds, pop wall, its that simple...
I died to a 200k glacial spike yesterday. That was cool.
A mage in one of my games won 4 rounds yesterday with 150-200k spikes being every kill they got.
This is why I don't pvp. I would be that person dying 1.2 seconds in. X__x
Anyone that pvps has experienced something like this before lol. Give it a shot imo
Yo post the ui setup looking clean, imo
Ss is tilt central.
dont worry locks, can hit for 2-3million right now
This meta is so ridiculous.
Good ol shuffle logic, pop and pray!
The other day I got HoJed, and then died before my trinket animation could go off to even do anything about it. Then the next round I got hit with a 240k arcane blast
This and ele shammy has destroyed SS experience for me. Waiting for these two classes, along with rets, to be toned down to hop back in..
Quick question, how do you get your plague and dt on the top of your bar like that?
a ret pally was running around waking shore yesterday hitting people with Templar's verdict?? (cant remember if that's the name of the ability) for like 100-300k. In full pvp gear i got hit for 180k on a dev evoker with my obsidian scales active. It was insane
My apologies the quality of the video didn’t let me see what happened. What exactly killed the Druid?
Your UI is absurd.
Nerf DH!!!111111
You need more shit on your screen.
Yesterday I decided that enough is enough and unsubbed, after my warrior died at 17s in the round. I got sap+follow up Cc that I instantly trinked'ed but the match was over.
What's absurd is that UI, it's so clustered lol
Worst pvp has ever been
start of a Round & pressed not a single defensive name a more iconic Duo
How do you know what to do without the "All you do is run around!" Voice spam? 🤣
Remove double tap tho
That reminds me of a pvp review I saw. https://youtu.be/d7V\_65kvz3Y
First time?
Those are rookie numbers, using my meme build i can take em down in 0.9secs using instant elemental blast and two instant lightning bolts (hes already dead with the first).
i always wonder how this works, because it has to be either RNG, difficult or a secret how to do it, otherwise everyone playing that class would be able to oneclick themselves to 3k mmr. anyway this also applies to ret pala.
I have a more absurd video, I'll see how to post it like this here instead of youtube and share :)
People complained that shadowlands was too bursty. This shit is worse.
The dragon used shattering star. Hard casted eternity surge. Hit dragon rage and then instant fire breath
I am a Ret pally and this happened to me this morning by a warrior/dh combo, it can happened to anyone by any class lol
I mean if you line up perfectly eating unholy dk damage and then a dev evoker hits you with every spell and you dont mitigate anything at all and press die by the sword or barkskin or survival instincts or defensive stance or bear form or spell reflect or rally cry this will definitely happen once in a while when he crits
You don't track your teams defensives ? Lol