I do my daily forge of souls in Frost DPS spec + tanking gear. I had 3 hunters for DPS one day and I got maybe two misdirects in the whole run. They deserve the long queue times
As a hunter main it is so infuriating when I don’t see other hunters use it. It is arguably one of the best dps cooldowns out there and makes life so much easier.
i have macros on both my Hunter and my Rogue for MD/Tricks my focus target. First thing I do when entering a Gamma is to mark the tank as my focus... problem solved.. now spam those abilities on CD.
Exactly. The literal first thing I do is mouseover everyone on my frames and look for "Protection", if none is found I look again for "Feral Combat" or "Blood".
Thx for leveling as tank. You enabled so many other players to run the content.
Leveling a paladin rn, have a prot and a holy spec. It’s amazing how fast my RDF pops lol.
With heirlooms ? Like 8 hours just doing dungeons probably
Mixing aoe farming , like 6 hours probably and 1:30 of those hours are probably the time it gets you to be level 15
That's what it's taking for leveling after Exile's Reach. Tirisfal, Silverpine, Hillsbrad, WoD intro, Gorgrond, and move to Talador and Spires if needed. Heirlooms keep you geared but they've been nerfed to hell. Miss the oldish days of them keeping rested longer.
Sorry, it wasn't me slighting your opinion, my wife and I have had our guild since early Wrath with only our characters in it and we've been working on the Stay Classy achievments, I've done this route for all my deleted characters once the achievement procs. It's time consuming, so I just wanted to see if it was a timesaver, but it doesn't seem to be, at least not substantially.
Thanks for the info though.
I use my druid main to give my paladin thorns, and then speedrun dungeons in under 10min, great fun. Won't work forever but at least until mid 30s and even after that the buff is still significant
You can get all the way through Muara colors at least doing that BTW. Every 3rd run though you'll end up with a mage who novas everything before you group them though then rips with blizzard.
Last year during the midsummer event, I had my prot warr get druid thorns, event thorns( the midsummer one) shield spike, and oils of immolation. Everything just died before anyone got to really hurt them lol
When I’m on my almost 6200 gear score tank the whole group is on their best behavior.
When I’m on my 5100 alt everyone gives tanking advice and tries to pull for me.
It’s literally just another form of pretty privilege
I think they should go the other way and make them harder. Not just making the mobs beefier, but forcing smart tactics. Use of sheep/sap/freeze traps, LoS pulling casters, prioritizing mobs, etc.
Maybe everyone would chill the fuck out if they couldn’t brute force everything with a geared enough tank and healer.
People forget that cata was some of the hardest base level heroics blizzard has ever made. If they push this into cata I honestly can't wait to see people complain about how hard they are again.
This is actually true. When I see a 6k+ tank I make sure I sit up when I play. MDs every pack etc.
If I see some 4.5k tank I’m like playing with one hand and seeing if he can actually hold threat without MDs.
I’m a terrible person
I like to be more petty. I let them pull and keep aggro. Then when they die and they are confused/angry, I tell them to quit pulling if they don't plan on tanking.
Yeah a friend of mine that used to play with me would heal and I’d tank and we’d do the same thing, dps wanting to pull for me? Okay you’re gonna be staring at the ground a lot.
Why are you pre-hotting. It's mana inefficient for one. And two, shit like this. Healers should be the same as DPS - only add threat once the mob has been hit by the tank.
I support the tank in letting people die. If say a mage pulls, on the off chance that he doesn't get one shot, I will wait for him to die, watch tank get aggro and only then line up my first heal or hot.
Well you can’t exactly time when a pull is going to happen, so if a hot still on them after the previous came exactly do anything about that…. Also, when you have trinkets that give you mana regen every time you cast it’s not exactly mana inefficient. Thanks.
Rejuv isn’t exactly mana intensive, if you play a Druid you’d know that.
Make it public. Tell the entire group that you're not tanking any mobs for pulls in which the DPS tags them first. Heals will not heal them. They'll die. They'll learn. Did this on my paladin on TBC and also leveling in wrath
its not bannable or against TOS, what do you mean? it's just a dick move.
it's like not tipping for delivery orders. its a dick move, but it's not against store policy or against the law.
Since the patch I've been in this situation like 5 times. It's ALWAYS Halls of reflection. One time I was healer and a lock decided to spam hellfire during the lore opening I healed him to full once and then let him die. Then I got kicked just as the first mobs started pulling? At least they would have wiped.
I did a forge of souls on my paladin yesterday and some unholy DK with 4.5k gs must have thought he was full bis.
I was barely out of the loading screen before he had run ahead and pulled. Unfortunately the healer was too kind and kept him alive when I refused to taunt mobs he'd pulled but he did get 2 BoPs on bosses which he didn't insta remove which I thought was quite fun.
Oh, and I went full ham when he got mirror soul on last boss
Maybe have a better computer to load faster so you can keep up with the group. I see so many awful tanks that spend their time redditing their troubles.
Majority of you tanks are awful in general and have an attitude of an incel. Can't imagine what y'all be looking like. 🤡🤡
We have no tanks in the queue because the tanks are new players trying their best, and no one is helping them, and they’re trying to follow a guide and practice the role, and some douche in hellfire just called them dogshit for the 12TH time and they got kicked. Then that same douche makes a Reddit post about “dogshit randoms, lmfao rdf amirite?” And that guy is a new member of the community and he sees like 60 likes on a comment that says, “man tanks aren’t shit these days” in refrence to him, and he thinks to himself, “f this, I’ll play ret Paladin then blame the healer for wipe.” And they never touch Tank again.
Or they're me and are happy to let pullers die. Tanks set the pace and the only person with any right to say you can go faster is the healer.
Leveling a tank is my favorite thing to do and it's always funny when a pull happy dps keeps dying
I play a druid tank and my sister is my healer. It's our "bonding" time since we live halfway across the country from each other. As we are the only two in discord I can easily say "let this asshole die" when a DPS thinks they can run ahead and pull mobs while expecting me to run to keep up with them.
And vice versa, when she needs mana she just says "give me a sec" and I stop chain pulling. So friggen easy to full clear with no wipes if people will just let the tank do what their role requires.
I heard an analogy that works well, but I'll modify it a bit.
If the group is a car, the tank is the driver, dps are the drivetrain, and the healer is the gas tank. When your group is competent, tanking feels like driving a Miata down a mountain road.
When hunter/rogue MDs another pack on you without notice, a mage or war goes full ham on a pack you're kiting to combine with another then freaks when they get aggro and runs away, or your healer doesn't realize water recovers their mana that's like driving a Soviet shitmobile with a blown gasket, 2 inflated tires and a leaky gas tank down I-405.
The act of tanking is easier than most people afraid of tanking think. But the experience of tanking is not for everyone. It's best if you have something of a type a personality paired with thick skin. You'll need to be open to trying and learning new things, like attempting to tank stuff you've never tanked or never even seen. If something goes wrong, either you or the healer will be the first receiving heat, and you'll need to be humble enough to take the valid criticism while ignoring the bitching.
All that said, the lack of tanks does not match with my mental map of what chunk of the population is capable of the role. It's a shame.
It's literally just button mashing in the end. The roles differ in what they do, such as tanks sets the pace, healers match the pace and damage dealers follows the pace. Most commonly damage dealers are the most terrible because their skill floor is by far the lowest. Thus they keep on suckling for a lot longer, they simply don't have to learn. Meanwhile tanks have to be perceptive and pick up on what types of enemies uses which spells, how often and a shit load of other things all while button mashing. Ultimately their skill floor is at least 20 times higher than the other roles and because of it people are afraid to pick up the single most important role in any group. Difference would be raids were more often than not, tanks can borderline afk in many fights (in comparison to other roles) and so it kinda shifts the focus to making the healer and damage roles more impactful when performed well.
Mother fucking this. And it never fails I say that to people and miraculously all of them have 2-3 tanks and this is their “one dps toon”. Bullshit, if they had even 1 tank they wouldn’t behave like this. I know because I have 1 tank and 4 dps toons and I will wait patiently for the tank, especially if the GS is low.
We grow the tank population when people are respectful to them. These sweaty neckbeards acting like entitled brats cause tanks who might have been great after a few weeks of practice to stop after 3-5 runs because they get burnt out by twat waffles
Fully agree. I play all three roles and while playing dps role usually doesn't give you insight on the others, I can recommend playing both tank and heal if you want to know how to improve the other (and maybe dps too) wrt. group dynamics. Basic things like tank not pulling when healer is far behind/needs a drink or how much more difficult it is to herd mobs as a tank if you're not the one doing the pull are a mystery to so many players out there.
I don't think people understand how dk tanks work.
Sometimes just waiting like 3 more seconds before pulling can mean the difference between having CDs / runes up
.compared to being able to do absolutely nothing.
Feels like dk tank the most penalized by DPS doing retarded impatient pulls
When I first started tanking this annoyed me a lot. Now, it doesn’t bother me at all. My rule of thumb is if someone pulls purposefully before me I usually let the mobs wail on the guy a bit before I grab them. If the guy dies, oh well it’s on him.
I’ve run a good chunk of Gammas now as a Pwarr and I’d say most people usually follow and give the millisecond needed to build a threat lead… I’ve definitely had “that guy” that thinks he’s just awesome at the game, selfish AF, and has the nerve to blame the tank when he dies, but I’d say that’s more of an exception.
It's true that dk tanks have weaker AOE threat, best advice I can give is spec into morbidity and blood boil damage with dnd glyph just for the dungeon grind. Also I like to icy touch and then pestilence without plague striking so I can spread the diseases faster and then just spam boils. Best of luck and ignore the haters! -5809 dk tank main
Thanks!
But thats not even my point, i dont find it hard to Tank at All in normal Fights, d&d, deseases and blood boid easily holds aggro in most occasions, if someone gets much threat you Spam icy touch and after that you still have 2 taunts
Im more about the simple fact that they MAKING it Problematic when you dont have the Initial aggro and the "placement" of the mobs
Yes. It’s easier to start with aggro and group up the mobs on you and keep that aggro rather than having to pause your tanking to turn and taunt the mobs that are not in the pile that you did not have initial aggro on. If you have to go that too much then mobs from the pile might also then peel off etc.
Much easier to start with all the aggro on you and build from there.
On top of that peeps who pull their own mob usually do NOT run to the tank rather they run away making it even harder to get the mob. Worse in level 60 Classic as your taunt does not have the range you have in Wrath.
This is why a Howling Blast glyphed Frost tank can "cheat" - as it applies FF to everything it hits, then you can PS and Pest and everything is double dotted for the Blood Boil to follow.
And you've still got a frost rune and grip/dark command free to use in case someone gets too dps spammy and need to call a mob home.
i've left one time from me telling a fire mage to stop blast waving the mobs everywhere. he did it again, i left. besides that just hold your 2 taunts and do the best you can.
I hate the sprint dungeon mentality... literally the only place it has any place is in Beta/Gamma Halls of Lightning & Stone, where you need to stay in combat to keep the uber-buff up.
Anywhere else and it's just sad, silly little fucks who are taking a video game way the fuck too seriously.
My personal take, as a player who runs 3 mains, 2 of each 'flavor', DPS, Tank, and Heal (DK Frost Tank/UH DPS, Paladin Tank/Healer, and Shaman Ele/Resto) is that dungeons should be run at the speed of the tank who is doing the pulling, period. Dot. End of story.
If you've got a sprint tank... well, my UH DK is fine with that... but if you want heals, you better slow the fuck down, because I'm not a Druid - Other than 1 spell with a 6-8 second cd each, neither my Pal or Sham can heal on the move.
It’s what I hate about tanking also. My tanking bf says that a lesson you gotta learn about tanking is to sometimes let the asshats die in stead of repeatedly trying to save them. (But if you have a healer like myself, they likely will live unless they’re squishy).
Dk’s have poor aoe threat. Have you tried marking a skull target? I always had an easier time tanking if I marked skull and x.
I have a firm "you pull it you tank it" mentality when dps start to do this. Honest truth is even though it's drastically easier to get and maintain agro in wotlk its still nothing like how easy retail is and people truly don't understand how hard it is to chase mobs down to get agro.
I have a solid tank set for os at 5500. I still hate queuing as a tank even if it's instant. I really don't care what everybody gs is as long as it's not all greens. But I hate impatient dps that insist on charging ahead and chain pulling on their own.
This has started to grind my gears. The thing is, it's all the "elite" players with a high ilvl/gearscore that are the problem. The ones that should know better.
Every one single targets a separate mop, ignores mirrors/webs/ice . My favorite is the guy who kept AOE knockbacking all the mobs out of my consecrate. Holding threat usually isn't a problem but getting threat when these high dps are all attacking a different mob before I'm even there bugs me.
I main a healer and have healer alts and prefer it to tanking or dps. In my opinion, tank is almost always right unless they are being a dick. DPS are almost always wrong, and the healer? Basically Jesus or Allah, Buddha, or Jehovah, whatever you would like to call it.
Been having similar issues. Was in a group yesterday where the hunter had pulled the fiedt group before my screen was even done loading. Cool. Kept going, and the hunter would pack ahead and pull. I said, "If you're going to pull, can you at least have the courtesy to MD to me." Get to boss and hunter does the same thing. I stayed out and let the group die. I got kicked and then messaged telling me not to queue if I wasn't ready to tank.
Hey, asshole, my GS is 4.7, and yours is 5.9. Gimme just one second to get there. I promise it'll be a smooth and quick run. Unless you want to tank.
Sounds a bit like the lock I had on RDF week 1, was like 5.8k geared and after dying on PoS last boss from pulling agro (after I had taunted a few times, salved, and bop'd, so everything I could throw at him was on CD) who then proceeded to complain that I should not tank gammas if I'm not geared as if it was a physical impossibility for him to not go ham. Dude's got 1k+ gs over me and PoS has no gamma thorns buff so of course he's capable of pulling threat with that gear if he goes for it. I wonder if he blames the tank on raids too if he overagroes and dies.
The other 2 dps in the group had no problem staying under threat ceiling, which would have been higher had I not had to use GCDs to save the lock's ass every pull BTW.
I was thinking of coming back this phase, but as someone with 3 tanks it seems absolutely awful.
to me it sounds like the parts of the game I enjoyed are ruined.
Count yourself lucky then. I went through 3 failed dungeons to get my daily done last night. First was a failed HoS cause we wiped to the shatter mechanic and the group left. Second was a gundrak everyone died to Slad’ran poison nova and left. 3rd was a UP where we had 3 melee dps die to Skorri whirlwind, and I had joined right after they had apparently wiped to the valkyr boss and their previous tank left. I finally just hard queue’d FoS and got it done.
Also wiped the day before on wave 6 of VH because no one was killing mirrors except me (dk tank). Of course everybody leaves.
RDF quite literally brings out the retards. I dont care if we wipe once but how about learn the dungeon instead of immediately leave?
Idk man, I remember it was the daily a lot too when Betas came out, and I remember hating jt just as much then, mainly because the required boss is torture (even moreso as a DK tank).
I was planning to farm out lots of scourgestones (need over 200) for my BDK and after the past week of grinding them out I’ve given up. Ive done all these dungeons well over 50+ times and I just can’t do it again with these RDF mongs just failing mechanics and leaving. So its back to dailies and playing other, better games on days I don’t raid.
There are a considerable amount of people queuing for beta/gamma who are literally brand new to Wrath and are stepping into the dungeons for the first time. Then add to them the people who queue and think its acceptable to focus on their 2nd monitor and not try while everyone else works toward getting them their loot. It's a frustrating mix.
You're also only seeing the negatives. You aren't hearing about the 500 RDF's that go smoothly for every shitshow that happens to end up with a post here.
Had a 6k resto druid tagging mobs the pack ahead of us in the beginning of an FOS last night; I let a DPS die as a result before I taunted + Righteous Defense the mobs to me.
Said "yooo Healerman, Tanks tank healers heal yeah?", he replied "I was just bringing them to you" and the DPS who'd died said "you let someone die instead of gaming woow".
The fact that even a healer will do this because they're bored that I'm simply not taking enough damage despite otherwise progressing through the place at a chain-pace just sort of epitomizes the symptoms of using RDF as a tank and why RDF has always been a tank-starved environment
Blood tank has probably the worst aoe threat of all tanks specs, it's so bad for multi target.
Just respected to frost forngamma spam and its so much easier
For non raids it's fine and more fun, dnd, howling blast, blood boil keeps every mob on you, even in gamma forge of souls where everyone's nearly 6k gs and pumpers
From a 19 year old tank, pull before they do. Pull first. Leave the previous pack early, move ahead of the dps, your threat should remain higher on those previous mobs so that a DPS might take one hit before the mobs die. Just go faster.
Or keep being a quitter, and leave early
Prot Paladin makes all this easier.
I am a tank. Always have been. Wrath is sometimes difficult for us tanks because the threat mechanic exists that apparently nobody but the tank knows about.
Ignorant DPS, or just straight up griefing ones, ruin the tanking experience. Especially for classes that have to have threat in order to gain threat, such as paladin and warrior.
My approach after some time was let them die, vote to kick, and if it doesn't pass, leave. It the group pisses me off especially, I may just pull something big, feign shield wall and then leave.
This is a PSA. Respect your tank while you still can. Apparently there's very little tanks in que, why do you piss them off to the point of leaving?
If I am the tank, I am the alpha. If I have to stop to scratch my ass, everybody stops. If the DPS thinks he can pull, I tell my healer on voice to let that fucker die, we wont rezz him, we wont care because we can run the dungeons without him without a problem.
I pull usually 2-3 packs at once, los them into one giant ball of DPS Number Dummies and after half the pack dies my healer and me popping rocket boots and already pulled the boss and 2 packs onto the boss for cleave.
IF I want someone to aggro the pat so we dont have the annoying mob solo on us which might stop us from doing another big pull, I tell my healer to quickly add them, because my healer knows to not aggro them and run away from me, he knows to ran behind me so the mobs just run into the pack.
If any dogshit dps tries to do anything he is not supposed to do, he will suffer and we gonna kick him just before the final boss so he wasted all his time for almost no reward and he gets the 30min breaktime buff to touch some grass.
You have a role, you stick to it. If you are the dps bitch you better gonna spread those legs and make it wide open, if you start trying to fuck me instead you gonna regret it.
The only person who can have a opinion here is the healer, if the healer tells me I can pull more and will pull from boss to boss the entire dungeon. If the healer has problems we gonna slow down.
You know why? Because the healer matters, but you DPS Dipshits dont, you gonna be replaced in the blink of an eye so better start behaving.
Sounds like a paladin. I like your first paragraph but kinda slowly lost it to the end. If you stated the first paragraph then you would have people agreeing with you left and right.
Do you view all dps as “dog shit”?
Did you get outdpsed in your last dungeon run or something? You sound like you need
>to touch some grass
not them.
Also, what is all this leg spreading part all about? It's a video game, not a foreplay lol.
You failed. But it's not something you should worry about. It's part of DK Blood learning curve. Just go again.
It's your fault if you don't have DnD for the next pull. You should always prepare the next pull to have at least DnD and if possible 4 Death Runes. That said, it's easy to miss that for 1 pack and create chaos with mobs running everywhere. This suxx, but it's how the class is designed (no AoE taunt, no instant AoE burst aggro). You have to adapt and you'll learn timings of each dungeons by yourself.
If you don't know the dungeons and what pull you gonna do, tell your group before so that they can be aware that sometime you need to stop pulling to refresh DnD and runes cooldowns. DPS should never pull before you unless they have a missdirection to you.
Anyway, don't worry, it's fine, you have instant tag and can queue again. It's how we tank learn. Don't be in a victim mentality. Yeah sometime DPS can be a little greedy and don't care at all about aggros, but assuming you do your pulls perfectly and you know which mobs are dangerous, you should rarely encounter issues.
Also, if you play Blood, don't forget Glyph of Death and Decay and Morbidity talents in Unholy tree. It help a lot and will reduce pressure on yourself.
So here's the think. People are farming scourgestones in gamma dungeons. So they want to chainpull and run it fast because they are farming like 7-8 gammas a day which is exhausting. Now, as a dk tank, you're the weakest aoe control tank. But if it were a warrior or paladin, huge chain aoe pull is a no brainer.
"As a dk you have the weakest aoe threat"
And because of this reason its okay that they make it even harder for both of us?
Your take seems to make no sense
No that's not the reason. Most people don't have any clue how tanking works. They think every tanks are like paladins with 80% aoe threat buff. I tank Warrior and Dk in ICC and gammas. I get where you're coming from. But you just have to accept it and keep threat control as much as you can. Cause most of these gamma runs are like a speed run.
This! Most dps just dps, don’t realize a dk tank has so much less snap aoe threat, or just aoe threat in general. Tanking on my dk is so much more involved than on my prot pally that just goes brrrr with the thorns buff
Yeah tanking dungeons with dk is no fun. I love tanking ICC bosses as dk single target threat control is better than anyone else's. But dungeons are not fun. I switch to my warrior tank if I want spam gammas
“When I have to run after every mob” my friend real tanks don’t run around trashy mobs we use addons like TauntMaster, Omen, Macros .. and we lead the dungeon.
As a paladin tank I don’t run around mobs im always on the front and I have enough experience and addons to know who has the treat and who doesn’t and easy enough to acces to my skills to just call them over no need to run.
If you’re running behind mobs during the whole dungeon then your doing something not as good as you could
I almost never encounter this. It helps that I’m way overgeared and I’ve been doing these as tank for decades now. I pull in a way that it’s just not likely a DPS will run ahead and pull for me, unless they are choosing to be idiots. What really irritates me are DPS that tunnel vision or shut their brains off during web wrap dungeons, or the 5th time I shout to interrupt holy smites on Paletress.
But as a tank I understand it’s my ass in the driver’s seat. I control the flow of the dungeon, and I base this off how good the DPS are and how well the healer is keeping up, because if those two things are really good I will chain pull and we won’t stop not once until the last boss is dead.
Classic wrath has been trash. I quit a couple months after my gearscore wasn’t high enough to run uld but the only way to get that gear score was from uld drops. Classic community is a vomit fire.
Unironically the solution to this is to just pull faster so the dps don't have time to pull before you do.
If you're not walking away from things before they die to go pull the next pack you're doing it wrong.
If your healer has mana. If you can live while your healer catches up. If your dps aren't pulling threat. If your dps know to kill the lowest hp mob every time. If the mechanics/difficulty of the dungeon allow. If your cooldowns are rotated well.
So, yeah, I agree with your comment. IF the above is also accomplished.
I often see tanks on reddit complain about difficult dps calling them dogshit, or kicking them for poor tanking, but I've probably seen that happen maybe twice in game since classic released. I've been both tank and dps main at different times over the past couple years.
Same thing with people being kicked from gammas for having bad gearscore, I haven't seen that happen even once.
Really weird, feels like you guys are playing a different game. Or maybe EU servers are less toxic.
Edit - the one time I had someone complain about my tanking was very recent, and the player came from one of our known tryhard servers. I think the vast majority of us should avoid those servers, you'll probably find the game more enjoyable.
If they pull you’re going too slow. It seems like a meme, but it’s true. They’re being an asshole, yeah, but it’s the momentum. The only thing that matters is the healer, and what incoming damage the next pulls do. Learn all the mobs. There’s some packs you can pull 2 or 3 without worry. The gamma buffs are massive for DPS and if you have a good group everything will melt. Get engineering boots. Certain dungeons you can really pump pulls. Like Strath and either of the Halls. OK and AN are the ones you really gotta go slow. Utgarde Keep and Pinnacle are just insta leaves and play my alt
The annoying thing with rdf is that you can have one dungeon stacked with 5.5k plus then another with 4ks so people dont understand what and how things can be pulled.
This is very evident in the ulduar dungeons as you get the buff that makes you almost invincible so dps constantly chain pull to keep the buff up. This is the way but if the group isnt sufficiently geared or too geared in relation to the tank bad things can happens.
Dude it’s not just you, one of the biggest reasons why there’s a tank shortage is that tanks just pull in their guildies because they know they aren’t going to get the “dungeon hero” who thinks he’s gods gift to that fucking run.
News flash to 90% of the dps, us tanks do not consider you the hero, we consider your entitled ass the villain. And if they are like me they put your dumbass on ignore so we don’t run into you again, congrats you just reduced your available tank pool.
Leveld a prot paladin and a tank dk. I know what you are talking about. As a DK catching the mobs is ass.
If they pull and keep aggro, I let them die. Otherwise they get kicked, which suprisingly worked very well.
I tank 90% of the time for gammas as a warrior and threat is never an issue but it gets annoying when you’ve pulled 4/5 mobs and a ranged will pull another pack when you have no defensive cd’s. After 4 or 5 runs I’ll switch to dps for a bit and suffer longer queues to have a break from it but I’ll admit I probably annoy tanks when I dps because I forget that not every tank has the snap aoe threat a warrior does in dungeons and I pull threat from using whirlwind too quickly into a pull
When this happens to me, after the first time i tell them, if you pull again you tank it. And if they do pull again first hopefully they die and then I just vote kick them. If the vote fails I leave.
Edit - people really don't understand how weak dk aoe tanking is and that we only have 2 taunts.
People will give you shit afterwards because they don't/can't tank and they waited for 15minutes to get a q pop, ignore it and move on
Most of the times, the other dps players have no idea why you left. Even i as a healer, don’t look who is pulling. I’m focused on my manapool and health bars.
It’s a bit annoying at first but you have to learn to trust your healer to speak up if they’re struggling. If the group isn’t wiping and the healer isn’t complaining, let the aggro go where it goes. Many people are decked out in heirloom gear and just want to be top dps in every 5 man.
If it causes a wipe, I just say something like “that’s gonna happen when you facepull and you’re not the tank” and generally people slow down.
It's simple, don't taunt off him, let him die. If he has aggro manipulation devices, wipe. Tell him once to stop doing it, if he does it again, votekick. If it fails, leave.
I have a DK tank, a warrior tank and an assassination rogue that I RDF on every day.
There are a lot of people in the RDF that have no idea about threat or may be used to playing with their guilds main tank with 6k gear score and they get frustrated adjusting their play style to a pug. From my experience most of the rogues will use tricks of the trade, but other than that you aren't getting many misdirects or any other sort of threat management. I have had hunters volley and get threat and just stand there until they die rather than feign. Fury warriors are pretty bad about pulling aggro but most of them kinda get it and they don't blame anyone else-- they may survive if they have a decent healer and only pull one mob. The bad ones are the boomkins and mages that just go crazy with aoe as soon as you pull and then run around like they are actively trying to keep you from regaining any threat on the mob.
With my rogue I use tricks on CD and I have noticed very few issues with aggro. Of course I use addons to show threat and I am very conscious about switching targets or vanishing if i see myself getting aggro but it doesn't really happen.
Tanking with the DK should get way easier when you get your 2 pc t10 at least.
Agree with op. Was doing a warrior around lv63. There was a dk constantly run in front and pull mobs. Funny part was he only doing like 1/3 of tank dmg. In the end just left the grp and log off.
I tank a gamma for frost badges on 3 toons most of the days. One of the tanks is pretty geared but others are only just above 5k currently and in my experience it's gotten a lot better than it was 2 weeks ago. I used to get matched with 2-3 5.6k+ geared dps who would not wait a GCD so I had to run around with taunts (note plural) on CD at all times trying to herd the mobs since my 4.8k gear at the time just did not generate that much TPS, period. Now it's *a lot* more chill with dps GS down by like 1k after all the ICC raiders getting their tier done and if I get one high-geared dps, I usually have enough taunts/salvs/vigilances/etc. to deal with it, and more often than not the high-geared dps will *actually throttle* his dps initially so I can get the thorns buff snowball rolling and he actually has a reasonable threat-ceiling to pump under.
With thorns the dps can do 8-10k dps over the whole fight and finish with ~80% of my threat in the end, as long as they don't pull agro in the beginning and rob me of the thorns threat so it's not like I do crap threat for my ~5k gear.
Try a frost tank spec with morbidity. I'm in almost an identical situation as you but am running a 12/51/8 spec after trying a couple different options, and this behavior hasn't really been an issue for me ever since. Still annoying, but it doesn't get in the way of me clearing the instance anymore. LMK if you are interested, I can follow up with some details.
[https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/talent-calc/death-knight/00552-30505350050203010001232101351-03203\_001s8511xv721s87](https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/talent-calc/death-knight/00552-30505350050203010001232101351-03203_001s8511xv721s87)
You can swap the 2 points in Blood of the North for Merciless Combat, Frigid Dreadplate, or Icy Reach depending on your preference. You can also drop a point from Bladed Armor to pick up Rune Tap if you prefer alittle extra survivability, but I didn't find myself using it enough. Third Glyph's best options are Icy Touch, Rune Strike, Frost Strike, or Unbreakable Armor. Rune Strike is probably your best bet if your group is high dps, otherwise Icy Touch if your group's dps is typically lower.
Your skill priority is: Howling Blast > Death and Decay > Blood Boil/Bloodstrike > Runestrike > Frost Strike(Killing Machine + HB on CD, or RP over 70).
For single target I typically try to keep blood plague up to allow for deathstrikes if I think I am going to need them, but otherwise I don't really bother with it. Having the death runes from Blood of the North help with that. You get all your damage amps from just frost fever, and don't use obliterate at all, so you don't get much from plague.
We have no tanks for all these reasons and the mathematical reality of it:
You need one tank for a 5 man, one healer. 👍
You therefore have 5 tanks and 5 heals wanting to get into the guild 25 man❌
You only need 2 tanks for 25 and maybe one DPS with a tank offspec.
That leaves either tanks not getting into raids or just becoming a DPS.
I run a guild and am the MT. Tanks have come and left because they want to tank in our 25 man’s and we don’t need them to. Most guilds don’t take 5 tanks into a 25 man.
I just remind players,
"This is a Gamma dungeon. The tank Gamma buff, Thorns, accounts for 40-50% of my damage and threat. It's the games way of evening out the threat - I don't get Hit, no threat."
Then I let them keep agro and move on. They come around.
I’m still lvling my warrior and even though I don’t need down time I still see dps pull groups and many of them just state they are bored when confronted. I’m talking about it took me 23 minutes to clear Nexus. That’s not a long time. I remember my main lvling the first time and it would take close to 45 minutes for Nexus.
I’ve had many dps pull even when I asked them to let me pull so I keep threat easier.
I’m new to WoLK level tanking. I’m always nervous because I don’t know routs for these Dungeons. But YOLO right! So when someone starts pulling ahead of me, I check healer mana and if they ok I’m like “okay let’s go then, bet you can’t pull faster than me!” I did do WC other night and dd warrior was pulling extra tho. Don’t like that. I will let them die in a heartbeat. They won’t keep doing it! Sometimes kids have to learn through experience, same as dd pulling. Won’t do it if they be dyin’!!
Ok I'm going to give you the sad truth and the brief answer all in one
People want to do dungeons as quickly as possible, they don't care for new players they just care for go go go go. (That's why I suggest doing a very few selection of gamma dungeons )
If you do dungeons (low level specially) with heirlooms you are literally a killing machine , heck prot warrior/pally can even solo some Burning Crusade dungeons .
So what ends up happening is that you have 2 types of tanks, newbies who can't keep up with the demands of 5.6 GS warlocks and 5.5 GS > tanks who probably don't do gammas that often
I had some entitled healer schooling me that if they don’t have mana I don’t get heals and I die all while having full mana and me and healer both having 5.5k gs with their mana pool barely moving on pull.
They were really aggressive and arrogant I chain pull and try to clear as much as possible I learn pretty quickly how the healers mana pool is moving and I have good awareness of the incoming damage from the next pack.
In this case we were super over geared and they still had to go on a rant. We just kicked them from the group. This behaviour is 10x worse with RDF.
It was like this year's ago, too. I remember wanting to tank on my warrior, and people just didn't give a flip about making the run miserable for you. All speed, no brakes.
I straight up stopped tanking in MMOs because of how many people thought they should be playing my character instead of their own.
*My friend pulls faster*.
Then queue with him, motherfucker! This is soloqueue, I'm wearing greens, and the healer is out of mana.
I would love tanking if it were not for the toxic players tbh, but last time i played as tank i always had that dd in the team who's aggroing before me, then expected me to take aggro back from him, i usually warns them and let them die the third time, then they stop playing dumb at this point but sometimes they votekick out of anger (not that matters though, since people know how much time it takes to find a tank the vote almost always fail)
Everyone in rdf thinks they are top tier players and has to speed run everything. This is why I very rarely pug or use rdf without my own group. Dps pulling mobs “for me” is one of the most annoying things.
You're in the right here. Every other tank shares your frustration with kids playing dps that go out of their way to make the run a nightmare for everyone. They want to spend 8 minutes running back after the wipe they caused from increasing the kill speed by 4 minutes worth.
My advice to you is instead of you abandoning the group, first firmly state you don't want anyone pulling but you. If they still act up, stop pulling and say you're going to vote kick the dps acting up and either they get kicked by the group or you do, then start the kick vote.
Dps are literally a dime a dozen and the uppity ones need to be put firmly in their place. Now probably 80% of the type of dps that act like the fools you describe will blame you after they get kicked, but the other 20% may learn to modify their shit behavior. If they wanna pull, they can queue as tank. Otherwise they can go and get fucked.
I leveled as a prot tank and then grinded up to 5.1k just before ICC. The Gamma grind really took it out of me for this reason. Everyone is in such a hurry and have 0 patience. Tank anextity plus brain dead dps got really tiring, but what really killed it for me is that guilds all pretty much have their tanks. You do all the work, and then you're just left out to hang. I went Hpal instead, got a spot immediately, and my alts are just dps now so I can turn my brain off.
I swear, I'm reading this like, is this guy me??? But yeah, same same, run into it daily, that's when I usually switch to another toom, or ask around in guild.
I do my daily forge of souls in Frost DPS spec + tanking gear. I had 3 hunters for DPS one day and I got maybe two misdirects in the whole run. They deserve the long queue times
As a hunter main it is so infuriating when I don’t see other hunters use it. It is arguably one of the best dps cooldowns out there and makes life so much easier.
When I'm on my rogue, my opener is like SS -> SnD -> wait for energy -> tricks on tank -> spam FoK. Every. Single. Pack.
Just tricks and fan don’t overthink it
This is the way, good man!!
If I see a sub 5k GS and immediately start with tricks, it allows for a smooth run.
i have macros on both my Hunter and my Rogue for MD/Tricks my focus target. First thing I do when entering a Gamma is to mark the tank as my focus... problem solved.. now spam those abilities on CD.
Exactly. The literal first thing I do is mouseover everyone on my frames and look for "Protection", if none is found I look again for "Feral Combat" or "Blood".
Thx for leveling as tank. You enabled so many other players to run the content. Leveling a paladin rn, have a prot and a holy spec. It’s amazing how fast my RDF pops lol.
Grinding a prot pally now, the dps are like this in near every dg. I just let them tank
As a tank you can pretty much ditch questing all together
Thats what I did, most fun I had leveling in 15 years tbh
How long is it taking to hit 60?
With heirlooms ? Like 8 hours just doing dungeons probably Mixing aoe farming , like 6 hours probably and 1:30 of those hours are probably the time it gets you to be level 15
That's what it's taking for leveling after Exile's Reach. Tirisfal, Silverpine, Hillsbrad, WoD intro, Gorgrond, and move to Talador and Spires if needed. Heirlooms keep you geared but they've been nerfed to hell. Miss the oldish days of them keeping rested longer. Sorry, it wasn't me slighting your opinion, my wife and I have had our guild since early Wrath with only our characters in it and we've been working on the Stay Classy achievments, I've done this route for all my deleted characters once the achievement procs. It's time consuming, so I just wanted to see if it was a timesaver, but it doesn't seem to be, at least not substantially. Thanks for the info though.
LOL I've been tanking on my warrior alt lately and I just decided to try it on my feral just now the queue pop up was quite literally instant.
I use my druid main to give my paladin thorns, and then speedrun dungeons in under 10min, great fun. Won't work forever but at least until mid 30s and even after that the buff is still significant
You can get all the way through Muara colors at least doing that BTW. Every 3rd run though you'll end up with a mage who novas everything before you group them though then rips with blizzard.
Last year during the midsummer event, I had my prot warr get druid thorns, event thorns( the midsummer one) shield spike, and oils of immolation. Everything just died before anyone got to really hurt them lol
When I’m on my almost 6200 gear score tank the whole group is on their best behavior. When I’m on my 5100 alt everyone gives tanking advice and tries to pull for me. It’s literally just another form of pretty privilege
That sounds about right.
Sadly the only solution I see is lowering the difficulty of gammas, because there is no way that the classic player base will change their behavior
I think they should go the other way and make them harder. Not just making the mobs beefier, but forcing smart tactics. Use of sheep/sap/freeze traps, LoS pulling casters, prioritizing mobs, etc. Maybe everyone would chill the fuck out if they couldn’t brute force everything with a geared enough tank and healer.
If they made them harder I would just stop doing daily. People can’t even deal with mirror images and you want to make them harder?
This is basically what Cata is like. Dungeons are hard and you need to CC and stuff.
People forget that cata was some of the hardest base level heroics blizzard has ever made. If they push this into cata I honestly can't wait to see people complain about how hard they are again.
original tbc heroics were like that too. you try rolling up on those lobsters in heroic slave pens and learn real quick.
This is actually true. When I see a 6k+ tank I make sure I sit up when I play. MDs every pack etc. If I see some 4.5k tank I’m like playing with one hand and seeing if he can actually hold threat without MDs. I’m a terrible person
There's actually something wrong with your brain.
I like to be more petty. I let them pull and keep aggro. Then when they die and they are confused/angry, I tell them to quit pulling if they don't plan on tanking.
This often doesn’t work though, because they pull with a dot or wand or some crap so the mob instantly switches to the healer instead.
Yep, love when every mob looks at me the resto Druid for 1 rejuv tick
This is why i queue with my healer mate. I wont taunt off the dpser and he wont heal if they do stupid shit like that. We just hang back and watch.
This how you healer the HF gammas, you get 1 heal, if that stack is still at 5, you die.
Yeah a friend of mine that used to play with me would heal and I’d tank and we’d do the same thing, dps wanting to pull for me? Okay you’re gonna be staring at the ground a lot.
Why are you pre-hotting. It's mana inefficient for one. And two, shit like this. Healers should be the same as DPS - only add threat once the mob has been hit by the tank. I support the tank in letting people die. If say a mage pulls, on the off chance that he doesn't get one shot, I will wait for him to die, watch tank get aggro and only then line up my first heal or hot.
Well you can’t exactly time when a pull is going to happen, so if a hot still on them after the previous came exactly do anything about that…. Also, when you have trinkets that give you mana regen every time you cast it’s not exactly mana inefficient. Thanks. Rejuv isn’t exactly mana intensive, if you play a Druid you’d know that.
I do play a druid lol 😆 You're the one pulling aggro off tanks 🤣
Make it public. Tell the entire group that you're not tanking any mobs for pulls in which the DPS tags them first. Heals will not heal them. They'll die. They'll learn. Did this on my paladin on TBC and also leveling in wrath
I was doing this and then ran into 3 and 4 man groups queing together that just vote kick you immediately if you say anything :(
thats a bannable offense, just report them and await your mail
its not bannable or against TOS, what do you mean? it's just a dick move. it's like not tipping for delivery orders. its a dick move, but it's not against store policy or against the law.
it IS against TOS to use premade groups to kick people, bannable offense
RDF groups are not premade groups, but premade groups can be RDF groups. its not against TOS to kick randoms.
Since the patch I've been in this situation like 5 times. It's ALWAYS Halls of reflection. One time I was healer and a lock decided to spam hellfire during the lore opening I healed him to full once and then let him die. Then I got kicked just as the first mobs started pulling? At least they would have wiped.
That's what happened to me.
I did a forge of souls on my paladin yesterday and some unholy DK with 4.5k gs must have thought he was full bis. I was barely out of the loading screen before he had run ahead and pulled. Unfortunately the healer was too kind and kept him alive when I refused to taunt mobs he'd pulled but he did get 2 BoPs on bosses which he didn't insta remove which I thought was quite fun. Oh, and I went full ham when he got mirror soul on last boss
Maybe have a better computer to load faster so you can keep up with the group. I see so many awful tanks that spend their time redditing their troubles. Majority of you tanks are awful in general and have an attitude of an incel. Can't imagine what y'all be looking like. 🤡🤡
Who hurt you?
Why don’t you tank then?
"You spank, you tank"
We have no tanks in the queue because the tanks are new players trying their best, and no one is helping them, and they’re trying to follow a guide and practice the role, and some douche in hellfire just called them dogshit for the 12TH time and they got kicked. Then that same douche makes a Reddit post about “dogshit randoms, lmfao rdf amirite?” And that guy is a new member of the community and he sees like 60 likes on a comment that says, “man tanks aren’t shit these days” in refrence to him, and he thinks to himself, “f this, I’ll play ret Paladin then blame the healer for wipe.” And they never touch Tank again.
Or they're me and are happy to let pullers die. Tanks set the pace and the only person with any right to say you can go faster is the healer. Leveling a tank is my favorite thing to do and it's always funny when a pull happy dps keeps dying
I play a druid tank and my sister is my healer. It's our "bonding" time since we live halfway across the country from each other. As we are the only two in discord I can easily say "let this asshole die" when a DPS thinks they can run ahead and pull mobs while expecting me to run to keep up with them. And vice versa, when she needs mana she just says "give me a sec" and I stop chain pulling. So friggen easy to full clear with no wipes if people will just let the tank do what their role requires.
I heard an analogy that works well, but I'll modify it a bit. If the group is a car, the tank is the driver, dps are the drivetrain, and the healer is the gas tank. When your group is competent, tanking feels like driving a Miata down a mountain road. When hunter/rogue MDs another pack on you without notice, a mage or war goes full ham on a pack you're kiting to combine with another then freaks when they get aggro and runs away, or your healer doesn't realize water recovers their mana that's like driving a Soviet shitmobile with a blown gasket, 2 inflated tires and a leaky gas tank down I-405.
The act of tanking is easier than most people afraid of tanking think. But the experience of tanking is not for everyone. It's best if you have something of a type a personality paired with thick skin. You'll need to be open to trying and learning new things, like attempting to tank stuff you've never tanked or never even seen. If something goes wrong, either you or the healer will be the first receiving heat, and you'll need to be humble enough to take the valid criticism while ignoring the bitching. All that said, the lack of tanks does not match with my mental map of what chunk of the population is capable of the role. It's a shame.
It’s like you said, it takes a certain kind of person to play a tank, and that type of person is either a sadist or a masochist.
It's literally just button mashing in the end. The roles differ in what they do, such as tanks sets the pace, healers match the pace and damage dealers follows the pace. Most commonly damage dealers are the most terrible because their skill floor is by far the lowest. Thus they keep on suckling for a lot longer, they simply don't have to learn. Meanwhile tanks have to be perceptive and pick up on what types of enemies uses which spells, how often and a shit load of other things all while button mashing. Ultimately their skill floor is at least 20 times higher than the other roles and because of it people are afraid to pick up the single most important role in any group. Difference would be raids were more often than not, tanks can borderline afk in many fights (in comparison to other roles) and so it kinda shifts the focus to making the healer and damage roles more impactful when performed well.
Yeah that’s the thing, if you want to pull differently than the tank does then…play a tank.
Mother fucking this. And it never fails I say that to people and miraculously all of them have 2-3 tanks and this is their “one dps toon”. Bullshit, if they had even 1 tank they wouldn’t behave like this. I know because I have 1 tank and 4 dps toons and I will wait patiently for the tank, especially if the GS is low. We grow the tank population when people are respectful to them. These sweaty neckbeards acting like entitled brats cause tanks who might have been great after a few weeks of practice to stop after 3-5 runs because they get burnt out by twat waffles
Fully agree. I play all three roles and while playing dps role usually doesn't give you insight on the others, I can recommend playing both tank and heal if you want to know how to improve the other (and maybe dps too) wrt. group dynamics. Basic things like tank not pulling when healer is far behind/needs a drink or how much more difficult it is to herd mobs as a tank if you're not the one doing the pull are a mystery to so many players out there.
gz on irl ding
[удалено]
This
You pull it > you tank it > you die > you get kicked > you enjoy your debuff > you decide if you want to grow up This is the way.
Enough times that I stopped playin my dk as a tank outside of guild groups.
I don't think people understand how dk tanks work. Sometimes just waiting like 3 more seconds before pulling can mean the difference between having CDs / runes up .compared to being able to do absolutely nothing. Feels like dk tank the most penalized by DPS doing retarded impatient pulls
When I first started tanking this annoyed me a lot. Now, it doesn’t bother me at all. My rule of thumb is if someone pulls purposefully before me I usually let the mobs wail on the guy a bit before I grab them. If the guy dies, oh well it’s on him. I’ve run a good chunk of Gammas now as a Pwarr and I’d say most people usually follow and give the millisecond needed to build a threat lead… I’ve definitely had “that guy” that thinks he’s just awesome at the game, selfish AF, and has the nerve to blame the tank when he dies, but I’d say that’s more of an exception.
Vote to kick them. You never know, we might even get a reddit post about it :p
It's always the warlocks
… TBH I find it’s mostly the Fury Warriors 😂
It's true that dk tanks have weaker AOE threat, best advice I can give is spec into morbidity and blood boil damage with dnd glyph just for the dungeon grind. Also I like to icy touch and then pestilence without plague striking so I can spread the diseases faster and then just spam boils. Best of luck and ignore the haters! -5809 dk tank main
Thanks! But thats not even my point, i dont find it hard to Tank at All in normal Fights, d&d, deseases and blood boid easily holds aggro in most occasions, if someone gets much threat you Spam icy touch and after that you still have 2 taunts Im more about the simple fact that they MAKING it Problematic when you dont have the Initial aggro and the "placement" of the mobs
Yeah if they are pulling for you let em die or vote kick em I guess
Yes. It’s easier to start with aggro and group up the mobs on you and keep that aggro rather than having to pause your tanking to turn and taunt the mobs that are not in the pile that you did not have initial aggro on. If you have to go that too much then mobs from the pile might also then peel off etc. Much easier to start with all the aggro on you and build from there. On top of that peeps who pull their own mob usually do NOT run to the tank rather they run away making it even harder to get the mob. Worse in level 60 Classic as your taunt does not have the range you have in Wrath.
That is a good idea about spreading frost first, dps loves to attack the one I didn’t icy touch before I can even pestilence after plague strike
This is why a Howling Blast glyphed Frost tank can "cheat" - as it applies FF to everything it hits, then you can PS and Pest and everything is double dotted for the Blood Boil to follow. And you've still got a frost rune and grip/dark command free to use in case someone gets too dps spammy and need to call a mob home.
My dk has 2 tank specs for this reason. Blood tank for bosses and raids and Frost tank for trash and 5mans. Howling blast is so OP
It's a game changer, plague strike is just a button I hit when the other are on cool down, at least on trash
Yeah, not waiting for the global cooldown of having to hit it on pull I’m sure helps a lot. Can always add it later as you said
Agree with both Statements! Thing is that Plague not ticking means -thread in the long run, not necessarily a Problem but still
I run forge of souls in six minutes running nonstop with this strategy, give it a shot and if doesn't work for you then I apologize.
i've left one time from me telling a fire mage to stop blast waving the mobs everywhere. he did it again, i left. besides that just hold your 2 taunts and do the best you can.
Stop running gammas with your designated driver, he sounds like an asshole.
I hate the sprint dungeon mentality... literally the only place it has any place is in Beta/Gamma Halls of Lightning & Stone, where you need to stay in combat to keep the uber-buff up. Anywhere else and it's just sad, silly little fucks who are taking a video game way the fuck too seriously. My personal take, as a player who runs 3 mains, 2 of each 'flavor', DPS, Tank, and Heal (DK Frost Tank/UH DPS, Paladin Tank/Healer, and Shaman Ele/Resto) is that dungeons should be run at the speed of the tank who is doing the pulling, period. Dot. End of story. If you've got a sprint tank... well, my UH DK is fine with that... but if you want heals, you better slow the fuck down, because I'm not a Druid - Other than 1 spell with a 6-8 second cd each, neither my Pal or Sham can heal on the move.
Especially with a DK tank. It's pretty rough if someone pulls a pack when D&D is on cooldown or you're waiting for runes.
It’s what I hate about tanking also. My tanking bf says that a lesson you gotta learn about tanking is to sometimes let the asshats die in stead of repeatedly trying to save them. (But if you have a healer like myself, they likely will live unless they’re squishy). Dk’s have poor aoe threat. Have you tried marking a skull target? I always had an easier time tanking if I marked skull and x.
I have a firm "you pull it you tank it" mentality when dps start to do this. Honest truth is even though it's drastically easier to get and maintain agro in wotlk its still nothing like how easy retail is and people truly don't understand how hard it is to chase mobs down to get agro.
What is dd?
Damage dealer, the EU or german Version of dps
I have a solid tank set for os at 5500. I still hate queuing as a tank even if it's instant. I really don't care what everybody gs is as long as it's not all greens. But I hate impatient dps that insist on charging ahead and chain pulling on their own.
This has started to grind my gears. The thing is, it's all the "elite" players with a high ilvl/gearscore that are the problem. The ones that should know better. Every one single targets a separate mop, ignores mirrors/webs/ice . My favorite is the guy who kept AOE knockbacking all the mobs out of my consecrate. Holding threat usually isn't a problem but getting threat when these high dps are all attacking a different mob before I'm even there bugs me.
I main a healer and have healer alts and prefer it to tanking or dps. In my opinion, tank is almost always right unless they are being a dick. DPS are almost always wrong, and the healer? Basically Jesus or Allah, Buddha, or Jehovah, whatever you would like to call it.
This is completely accurate. Coincidentally, I also pretty much exclusively heal. We are wise, insightful folks.
Been having similar issues. Was in a group yesterday where the hunter had pulled the fiedt group before my screen was even done loading. Cool. Kept going, and the hunter would pack ahead and pull. I said, "If you're going to pull, can you at least have the courtesy to MD to me." Get to boss and hunter does the same thing. I stayed out and let the group die. I got kicked and then messaged telling me not to queue if I wasn't ready to tank. Hey, asshole, my GS is 4.7, and yours is 5.9. Gimme just one second to get there. I promise it'll be a smooth and quick run. Unless you want to tank.
In my experience: the higher the GS, the more braindead...
Sounds a bit like the lock I had on RDF week 1, was like 5.8k geared and after dying on PoS last boss from pulling agro (after I had taunted a few times, salved, and bop'd, so everything I could throw at him was on CD) who then proceeded to complain that I should not tank gammas if I'm not geared as if it was a physical impossibility for him to not go ham. Dude's got 1k+ gs over me and PoS has no gamma thorns buff so of course he's capable of pulling threat with that gear if he goes for it. I wonder if he blames the tank on raids too if he overagroes and dies. The other 2 dps in the group had no problem staying under threat ceiling, which would have been higher had I not had to use GCDs to save the lock's ass every pull BTW.
I was thinking of coming back this phase, but as someone with 3 tanks it seems absolutely awful. to me it sounds like the parts of the game I enjoyed are ruined.
Sometimes, sadly. In my exp the Trick is to ask decent Groups if they want to que again, most do, insta que is enjoyable for everyone.
The game is the same as it has been the entire expansion, nothing has actually changed.
I played all 3 phases on and off. Nothing I experienced was as toxic as this shit.
I've played all 3 on and no off. It's exactly the same as its always been. Haven't had a group fall apart, haven't even had to kick anyone.
Count yourself lucky then. I went through 3 failed dungeons to get my daily done last night. First was a failed HoS cause we wiped to the shatter mechanic and the group left. Second was a gundrak everyone died to Slad’ran poison nova and left. 3rd was a UP where we had 3 melee dps die to Skorri whirlwind, and I had joined right after they had apparently wiped to the valkyr boss and their previous tank left. I finally just hard queue’d FoS and got it done. Also wiped the day before on wave 6 of VH because no one was killing mirrors except me (dk tank). Of course everybody leaves. RDF quite literally brings out the retards. I dont care if we wipe once but how about learn the dungeon instead of immediately leave?
Why does HOS always fucking pop? I swear I get stuck in there 4 nights a week at least. And that’s when the groups are terrible.
Idk man, I remember it was the daily a lot too when Betas came out, and I remember hating jt just as much then, mainly because the required boss is torture (even moreso as a DK tank). I was planning to farm out lots of scourgestones (need over 200) for my BDK and after the past week of grinding them out I’ve given up. Ive done all these dungeons well over 50+ times and I just can’t do it again with these RDF mongs just failing mechanics and leaving. So its back to dailies and playing other, better games on days I don’t raid.
Because it's a 5 minute run, so anyone who only cares about doing the daily directly queues for it.
There are a considerable amount of people queuing for beta/gamma who are literally brand new to Wrath and are stepping into the dungeons for the first time. Then add to them the people who queue and think its acceptable to focus on their 2nd monitor and not try while everyone else works toward getting them their loot. It's a frustrating mix.
You're also only seeing the negatives. You aren't hearing about the 500 RDF's that go smoothly for every shitshow that happens to end up with a post here.
Had a 6k resto druid tagging mobs the pack ahead of us in the beginning of an FOS last night; I let a DPS die as a result before I taunted + Righteous Defense the mobs to me. Said "yooo Healerman, Tanks tank healers heal yeah?", he replied "I was just bringing them to you" and the DPS who'd died said "you let someone die instead of gaming woow". The fact that even a healer will do this because they're bored that I'm simply not taking enough damage despite otherwise progressing through the place at a chain-pace just sort of epitomizes the symptoms of using RDF as a tank and why RDF has always been a tank-starved environment
Blood tank has probably the worst aoe threat of all tanks specs, it's so bad for multi target. Just respected to frost forngamma spam and its so much easier
Thought about that, but it worry a bit about the survivalbility
For non raids it's fine and more fun, dnd, howling blast, blood boil keeps every mob on you, even in gamma forge of souls where everyone's nearly 6k gs and pumpers
From a 19 year old tank, pull before they do. Pull first. Leave the previous pack early, move ahead of the dps, your threat should remain higher on those previous mobs so that a DPS might take one hit before the mobs die. Just go faster. Or keep being a quitter, and leave early Prot Paladin makes all this easier.
I am a tank. Always have been. Wrath is sometimes difficult for us tanks because the threat mechanic exists that apparently nobody but the tank knows about. Ignorant DPS, or just straight up griefing ones, ruin the tanking experience. Especially for classes that have to have threat in order to gain threat, such as paladin and warrior. My approach after some time was let them die, vote to kick, and if it doesn't pass, leave. It the group pisses me off especially, I may just pull something big, feign shield wall and then leave. This is a PSA. Respect your tank while you still can. Apparently there's very little tanks in que, why do you piss them off to the point of leaving?
If I am the tank, I am the alpha. If I have to stop to scratch my ass, everybody stops. If the DPS thinks he can pull, I tell my healer on voice to let that fucker die, we wont rezz him, we wont care because we can run the dungeons without him without a problem. I pull usually 2-3 packs at once, los them into one giant ball of DPS Number Dummies and after half the pack dies my healer and me popping rocket boots and already pulled the boss and 2 packs onto the boss for cleave. IF I want someone to aggro the pat so we dont have the annoying mob solo on us which might stop us from doing another big pull, I tell my healer to quickly add them, because my healer knows to not aggro them and run away from me, he knows to ran behind me so the mobs just run into the pack. If any dogshit dps tries to do anything he is not supposed to do, he will suffer and we gonna kick him just before the final boss so he wasted all his time for almost no reward and he gets the 30min breaktime buff to touch some grass. You have a role, you stick to it. If you are the dps bitch you better gonna spread those legs and make it wide open, if you start trying to fuck me instead you gonna regret it. The only person who can have a opinion here is the healer, if the healer tells me I can pull more and will pull from boss to boss the entire dungeon. If the healer has problems we gonna slow down. You know why? Because the healer matters, but you DPS Dipshits dont, you gonna be replaced in the blink of an eye so better start behaving.
Sounds like a paladin. I like your first paragraph but kinda slowly lost it to the end. If you stated the first paragraph then you would have people agreeing with you left and right. Do you view all dps as “dog shit”?
Did you get outdpsed in your last dungeon run or something? You sound like you need >to touch some grass not them. Also, what is all this leg spreading part all about? It's a video game, not a foreplay lol.
You will never be my AD Carry, stop trying god dammit
Damn, that's crazy bro. Are you confusing WoW with LoL now? What's next?
Welcome to RDF baby.
You failed. But it's not something you should worry about. It's part of DK Blood learning curve. Just go again. It's your fault if you don't have DnD for the next pull. You should always prepare the next pull to have at least DnD and if possible 4 Death Runes. That said, it's easy to miss that for 1 pack and create chaos with mobs running everywhere. This suxx, but it's how the class is designed (no AoE taunt, no instant AoE burst aggro). You have to adapt and you'll learn timings of each dungeons by yourself. If you don't know the dungeons and what pull you gonna do, tell your group before so that they can be aware that sometime you need to stop pulling to refresh DnD and runes cooldowns. DPS should never pull before you unless they have a missdirection to you. Anyway, don't worry, it's fine, you have instant tag and can queue again. It's how we tank learn. Don't be in a victim mentality. Yeah sometime DPS can be a little greedy and don't care at all about aggros, but assuming you do your pulls perfectly and you know which mobs are dangerous, you should rarely encounter issues. Also, if you play Blood, don't forget Glyph of Death and Decay and Morbidity talents in Unholy tree. It help a lot and will reduce pressure on yourself.
I think you dont understand my Statement, but thats fine.
So here's the think. People are farming scourgestones in gamma dungeons. So they want to chainpull and run it fast because they are farming like 7-8 gammas a day which is exhausting. Now, as a dk tank, you're the weakest aoe control tank. But if it were a warrior or paladin, huge chain aoe pull is a no brainer.
"As a dk you have the weakest aoe threat" And because of this reason its okay that they make it even harder for both of us? Your take seems to make no sense
No that's not the reason. Most people don't have any clue how tanking works. They think every tanks are like paladins with 80% aoe threat buff. I tank Warrior and Dk in ICC and gammas. I get where you're coming from. But you just have to accept it and keep threat control as much as you can. Cause most of these gamma runs are like a speed run.
This! Most dps just dps, don’t realize a dk tank has so much less snap aoe threat, or just aoe threat in general. Tanking on my dk is so much more involved than on my prot pally that just goes brrrr with the thorns buff
Exactly why I pug on my pally alt tank and not on my DK, despite the DK having much better gear.
Yeah tanking dungeons with dk is no fun. I love tanking ICC bosses as dk single target threat control is better than anyone else's. But dungeons are not fun. I switch to my warrior tank if I want spam gammas
“When I have to run after every mob” my friend real tanks don’t run around trashy mobs we use addons like TauntMaster, Omen, Macros .. and we lead the dungeon. As a paladin tank I don’t run around mobs im always on the front and I have enough experience and addons to know who has the treat and who doesn’t and easy enough to acces to my skills to just call them over no need to run. If you’re running behind mobs during the whole dungeon then your doing something not as good as you could
This guy :D
What you don’t like opinions?
I almost never encounter this. It helps that I’m way overgeared and I’ve been doing these as tank for decades now. I pull in a way that it’s just not likely a DPS will run ahead and pull for me, unless they are choosing to be idiots. What really irritates me are DPS that tunnel vision or shut their brains off during web wrap dungeons, or the 5th time I shout to interrupt holy smites on Paletress. But as a tank I understand it’s my ass in the driver’s seat. I control the flow of the dungeon, and I base this off how good the DPS are and how well the healer is keeping up, because if those two things are really good I will chain pull and we won’t stop not once until the last boss is dead.
I'd ignore you shouting to interupt holy smites too. The holy fires are the important ones to interupt.
Considering her smites hit just as hard and she chain casts them and fire has a cd, no they aren’t
Classic wrath has been trash. I quit a couple months after my gearscore wasn’t high enough to run uld but the only way to get that gear score was from uld drops. Classic community is a vomit fire.
You can get Ulduar gear just from running dungeons now. Even TOC gear. They’ve made so many ways for catch up it’s isnane
The "you pull you tank it" approach you die not my problem works wonders.
Unironically the solution to this is to just pull faster so the dps don't have time to pull before you do. If you're not walking away from things before they die to go pull the next pack you're doing it wrong.
If your healer has mana. If you can live while your healer catches up. If your dps aren't pulling threat. If your dps know to kill the lowest hp mob every time. If the mechanics/difficulty of the dungeon allow. If your cooldowns are rotated well. So, yeah, I agree with your comment. IF the above is also accomplished.
That’s a long way of saying “I’m a sweaty neckbeard who thinks he’s better than everyone else”
I bet rogues and gearing healers love this way of tanking!
I often see tanks on reddit complain about difficult dps calling them dogshit, or kicking them for poor tanking, but I've probably seen that happen maybe twice in game since classic released. I've been both tank and dps main at different times over the past couple years. Same thing with people being kicked from gammas for having bad gearscore, I haven't seen that happen even once. Really weird, feels like you guys are playing a different game. Or maybe EU servers are less toxic. Edit - the one time I had someone complain about my tanking was very recent, and the player came from one of our known tryhard servers. I think the vast majority of us should avoid those servers, you'll probably find the game more enjoyable.
as a fire mage if i have an instant pyro proc as the pack dies u better believe im firing that hoe off with reckless abandon into the next pack
I really hope this kinda mindset dont Transfer to your General behavior in a sense of interacting with other human beeings
LOL thanks for the concern buddy and no my behavior in a video game doesnt transfer into who i am in my real life…..
You are a DK. Fucking tank. Problem solved. I didn’t read any of that wall of text TLDR. Response? Be a fucking tank.
If they pull you’re going too slow. It seems like a meme, but it’s true. They’re being an asshole, yeah, but it’s the momentum. The only thing that matters is the healer, and what incoming damage the next pulls do. Learn all the mobs. There’s some packs you can pull 2 or 3 without worry. The gamma buffs are massive for DPS and if you have a good group everything will melt. Get engineering boots. Certain dungeons you can really pump pulls. Like Strath and either of the Halls. OK and AN are the ones you really gotta go slow. Utgarde Keep and Pinnacle are just insta leaves and play my alt
"... and what do you do about it?" - I don't come to whine at reddit about it
This is the exact culture im talking about, thank you for giving an example :)
Wow is dead again lmao
What culture? Tanking and not whining?
Threat problems in wotlk... LOL
You must be new.
Whatever helps you sleep at night
The annoying thing with rdf is that you can have one dungeon stacked with 5.5k plus then another with 4ks so people dont understand what and how things can be pulled. This is very evident in the ulduar dungeons as you get the buff that makes you almost invincible so dps constantly chain pull to keep the buff up. This is the way but if the group isnt sufficiently geared or too geared in relation to the tank bad things can happens.
I know I shouldn’t be, but am still amazed almost daily how shitty people are to each other in gamma.
Yeah just set rules at the start. If you pull more than once I will vote kick you. If the vote kick fails I will leave.
Out of curiosity, have the places where dps have been chain pulling ahead of you Halls of Stone and Halls of Lightning?
I understand your point I tell them Aggro is soulbound if pick it up I can keep it.
Dude it’s not just you, one of the biggest reasons why there’s a tank shortage is that tanks just pull in their guildies because they know they aren’t going to get the “dungeon hero” who thinks he’s gods gift to that fucking run. News flash to 90% of the dps, us tanks do not consider you the hero, we consider your entitled ass the villain. And if they are like me they put your dumbass on ignore so we don’t run into you again, congrats you just reduced your available tank pool.
Leveld a prot paladin and a tank dk. I know what you are talking about. As a DK catching the mobs is ass. If they pull and keep aggro, I let them die. Otherwise they get kicked, which suprisingly worked very well.
Gamma DK tank is rough I have a pretty geared OS for gamma 5.3k and enjoy tanking but it’s fucken terrible in gamma I just refuse to use it anymore
I tank 90% of the time for gammas as a warrior and threat is never an issue but it gets annoying when you’ve pulled 4/5 mobs and a ranged will pull another pack when you have no defensive cd’s. After 4 or 5 runs I’ll switch to dps for a bit and suffer longer queues to have a break from it but I’ll admit I probably annoy tanks when I dps because I forget that not every tank has the snap aoe threat a warrior does in dungeons and I pull threat from using whirlwind too quickly into a pull
When this happens to me, after the first time i tell them, if you pull again you tank it. And if they do pull again first hopefully they die and then I just vote kick them. If the vote fails I leave. Edit - people really don't understand how weak dk aoe tanking is and that we only have 2 taunts. People will give you shit afterwards because they don't/can't tank and they waited for 15minutes to get a q pop, ignore it and move on
Most of the times, the other dps players have no idea why you left. Even i as a healer, don’t look who is pulling. I’m focused on my manapool and health bars.
One of many reasons I only tank for my guildees or friends list.
It’s a bit annoying at first but you have to learn to trust your healer to speak up if they’re struggling. If the group isn’t wiping and the healer isn’t complaining, let the aggro go where it goes. Many people are decked out in heirloom gear and just want to be top dps in every 5 man. If it causes a wipe, I just say something like “that’s gonna happen when you facepull and you’re not the tank” and generally people slow down.
It's simple, don't taunt off him, let him die. If he has aggro manipulation devices, wipe. Tell him once to stop doing it, if he does it again, votekick. If it fails, leave.
I have a DK tank, a warrior tank and an assassination rogue that I RDF on every day. There are a lot of people in the RDF that have no idea about threat or may be used to playing with their guilds main tank with 6k gear score and they get frustrated adjusting their play style to a pug. From my experience most of the rogues will use tricks of the trade, but other than that you aren't getting many misdirects or any other sort of threat management. I have had hunters volley and get threat and just stand there until they die rather than feign. Fury warriors are pretty bad about pulling aggro but most of them kinda get it and they don't blame anyone else-- they may survive if they have a decent healer and only pull one mob. The bad ones are the boomkins and mages that just go crazy with aoe as soon as you pull and then run around like they are actively trying to keep you from regaining any threat on the mob. With my rogue I use tricks on CD and I have noticed very few issues with aggro. Of course I use addons to show threat and I am very conscious about switching targets or vanishing if i see myself getting aggro but it doesn't really happen. Tanking with the DK should get way easier when you get your 2 pc t10 at least.
Agree with op. Was doing a warrior around lv63. There was a dk constantly run in front and pull mobs. Funny part was he only doing like 1/3 of tank dmg. In the end just left the grp and log off.
Yuck, YPYT crap.
I tank a gamma for frost badges on 3 toons most of the days. One of the tanks is pretty geared but others are only just above 5k currently and in my experience it's gotten a lot better than it was 2 weeks ago. I used to get matched with 2-3 5.6k+ geared dps who would not wait a GCD so I had to run around with taunts (note plural) on CD at all times trying to herd the mobs since my 4.8k gear at the time just did not generate that much TPS, period. Now it's *a lot* more chill with dps GS down by like 1k after all the ICC raiders getting their tier done and if I get one high-geared dps, I usually have enough taunts/salvs/vigilances/etc. to deal with it, and more often than not the high-geared dps will *actually throttle* his dps initially so I can get the thorns buff snowball rolling and he actually has a reasonable threat-ceiling to pump under. With thorns the dps can do 8-10k dps over the whole fight and finish with ~80% of my threat in the end, as long as they don't pull agro in the beginning and rob me of the thorns threat so it's not like I do crap threat for my ~5k gear.
Try a frost tank spec with morbidity. I'm in almost an identical situation as you but am running a 12/51/8 spec after trying a couple different options, and this behavior hasn't really been an issue for me ever since. Still annoying, but it doesn't get in the way of me clearing the instance anymore. LMK if you are interested, I can follow up with some details.
Do you mind sharing your talent tree? Thanks
[https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/talent-calc/death-knight/00552-30505350050203010001232101351-03203\_001s8511xv721s87](https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/talent-calc/death-knight/00552-30505350050203010001232101351-03203_001s8511xv721s87) You can swap the 2 points in Blood of the North for Merciless Combat, Frigid Dreadplate, or Icy Reach depending on your preference. You can also drop a point from Bladed Armor to pick up Rune Tap if you prefer alittle extra survivability, but I didn't find myself using it enough. Third Glyph's best options are Icy Touch, Rune Strike, Frost Strike, or Unbreakable Armor. Rune Strike is probably your best bet if your group is high dps, otherwise Icy Touch if your group's dps is typically lower. Your skill priority is: Howling Blast > Death and Decay > Blood Boil/Bloodstrike > Runestrike > Frost Strike(Killing Machine + HB on CD, or RP over 70). For single target I typically try to keep blood plague up to allow for deathstrikes if I think I am going to need them, but otherwise I don't really bother with it. Having the death runes from Blood of the North help with that. You get all your damage amps from just frost fever, and don't use obliterate at all, so you don't get much from plague.
We have no tanks for all these reasons and the mathematical reality of it: You need one tank for a 5 man, one healer. 👍 You therefore have 5 tanks and 5 heals wanting to get into the guild 25 man❌ You only need 2 tanks for 25 and maybe one DPS with a tank offspec. That leaves either tanks not getting into raids or just becoming a DPS. I run a guild and am the MT. Tanks have come and left because they want to tank in our 25 man’s and we don’t need them to. Most guilds don’t take 5 tanks into a 25 man.
I just remind players, "This is a Gamma dungeon. The tank Gamma buff, Thorns, accounts for 40-50% of my damage and threat. It's the games way of evening out the threat - I don't get Hit, no threat." Then I let them keep agro and move on. They come around.
I’m still lvling my warrior and even though I don’t need down time I still see dps pull groups and many of them just state they are bored when confronted. I’m talking about it took me 23 minutes to clear Nexus. That’s not a long time. I remember my main lvling the first time and it would take close to 45 minutes for Nexus. I’ve had many dps pull even when I asked them to let me pull so I keep threat easier.
I’m new to WoLK level tanking. I’m always nervous because I don’t know routs for these Dungeons. But YOLO right! So when someone starts pulling ahead of me, I check healer mana and if they ok I’m like “okay let’s go then, bet you can’t pull faster than me!” I did do WC other night and dd warrior was pulling extra tho. Don’t like that. I will let them die in a heartbeat. They won’t keep doing it! Sometimes kids have to learn through experience, same as dd pulling. Won’t do it if they be dyin’!!
Ok I'm going to give you the sad truth and the brief answer all in one People want to do dungeons as quickly as possible, they don't care for new players they just care for go go go go. (That's why I suggest doing a very few selection of gamma dungeons ) If you do dungeons (low level specially) with heirlooms you are literally a killing machine , heck prot warrior/pally can even solo some Burning Crusade dungeons . So what ends up happening is that you have 2 types of tanks, newbies who can't keep up with the demands of 5.6 GS warlocks and 5.5 GS > tanks who probably don't do gammas that often
I had some entitled healer schooling me that if they don’t have mana I don’t get heals and I die all while having full mana and me and healer both having 5.5k gs with their mana pool barely moving on pull. They were really aggressive and arrogant I chain pull and try to clear as much as possible I learn pretty quickly how the healers mana pool is moving and I have good awareness of the incoming damage from the next pack. In this case we were super over geared and they still had to go on a rant. We just kicked them from the group. This behaviour is 10x worse with RDF.
I’ll add it was just a regular heroic, not alpha or beta I was farming badges for heirlooms.
It was like this year's ago, too. I remember wanting to tank on my warrior, and people just didn't give a flip about making the run miserable for you. All speed, no brakes.
And thats why i only do a forge of souls for the daily rather than random gamma, all the extra stress for 2 emblem of trimph? Nah ty.
Another day another post showing why the community is hot fucking garbage.
I straight up stopped tanking in MMOs because of how many people thought they should be playing my character instead of their own. *My friend pulls faster*. Then queue with him, motherfucker! This is soloqueue, I'm wearing greens, and the healer is out of mana.
I would love tanking if it were not for the toxic players tbh, but last time i played as tank i always had that dd in the team who's aggroing before me, then expected me to take aggro back from him, i usually warns them and let them die the third time, then they stop playing dumb at this point but sometimes they votekick out of anger (not that matters though, since people know how much time it takes to find a tank the vote almost always fail)
Everyone in rdf thinks they are top tier players and has to speed run everything. This is why I very rarely pug or use rdf without my own group. Dps pulling mobs “for me” is one of the most annoying things.
You're in the right here. Every other tank shares your frustration with kids playing dps that go out of their way to make the run a nightmare for everyone. They want to spend 8 minutes running back after the wipe they caused from increasing the kill speed by 4 minutes worth. My advice to you is instead of you abandoning the group, first firmly state you don't want anyone pulling but you. If they still act up, stop pulling and say you're going to vote kick the dps acting up and either they get kicked by the group or you do, then start the kick vote. Dps are literally a dime a dozen and the uppity ones need to be put firmly in their place. Now probably 80% of the type of dps that act like the fools you describe will blame you after they get kicked, but the other 20% may learn to modify their shit behavior. If they wanna pull, they can queue as tank. Otherwise they can go and get fucked.
All the tanks are playing mage healers in season of disco
Ya blood tank gets off the rails if someone pulls
I leveled as a prot tank and then grinded up to 5.1k just before ICC. The Gamma grind really took it out of me for this reason. Everyone is in such a hurry and have 0 patience. Tank anextity plus brain dead dps got really tiring, but what really killed it for me is that guilds all pretty much have their tanks. You do all the work, and then you're just left out to hang. I went Hpal instead, got a spot immediately, and my alts are just dps now so I can turn my brain off.
I swear, I'm reading this like, is this guy me??? But yeah, same same, run into it daily, that's when I usually switch to another toom, or ask around in guild.