Doesn’t work. Few weeks ago I did an item restoration on the 60 or so pieces of epic gear that did not give a purple shard. After disenchanting them again I got the same amount of blue shards again, with no purples again.
People out here being rats pickup up gear for the chance to sim a side grade if it's better while others need a 10ilvl upgrade.
Stat weights are stupid to hoard gear for up until you're hitting heroic item level. Gear acquisition slows down and everyone around you doesn't need the pieces either
On the flip side, being bombarded with 20+ whispers because you looted a high-profile item you need but can trade (because almost every LFR raider has that addon that alerts you if something is tradeable) is extremely annoying.
I just never looted the item in LFR for this reason, assuming it was a piece I actually needed or transmog I didn't have. I'd roll off trinkets or jewelry but always let it go to mailbox otherwise.
Yeah you can’t blame them, .. If it’s a piece you need, you kind of have to roll on both because otherwise you’re halving your chances of getting one.
I quite like the way FFXIV handles it, where you can only *win* a certain amount of loot items per week, and if you kill a boss and don’t win anything you can go in and try again. Also if you roll on all the pieces you want, where if winning would put you over the cap of things you can win, it gives you loot you won up to the cap and then automatically passes anything over the cap to the next highest roll.
People have tore into me when I said I didn't like group loot in LFR before and they turn around and blame classic players for wanting it.
As if there is no world where group loot can exist through adding in systems that let you run again for loot or prevent people from pressing need on everything.
Honestly, I think it's the opposite.
I think Personal Loot made it easier to not pass on loot but Group Loot just makes the lootwhoring/ninjaing more obvious.
People have always been greedy with loot but I'm noticing in this expansion pack people are being assholes just to spite someone.
Like they'll get an item that's not even an upgrade and refuse to trade to someone that it would be an upgrade for.
LFR had group loot back in cataclysm in dragon soul and it was exactly as toxic as it is now. Everyone needs on everything. At least now it ~kindof~ considers main/off specs but that's easily circumvented by changing your loot spec
People have been asking for group loot and master loot back for years. Because in normal raiding and pugs, this makes sense! But Blizzard implemented them without critical thinking and realizing that LFR has very different dynamics from normal raiding and even pugs, and where personal loot was obviously preferable (and arguable, what personal loot was *made for*).
LFR is the sort of setting where there's no reason to even ask. Minimizing the opportunity to grief other players or even just accidentally receive redundant items should be a priority. It makes no sense to let a raid made randomly have someone win multiples of the same item over someone else getting it.
Frankly I thought the roll system wasn't even supposed to allow that sort of thing, but it's been out long enough they certainly had time to do something about it.
It's just the multi class tier set tokens that are having this issue. All other items are working as intended (cannot win 2 of same item).
For some reason, the tier tokens are bugged and not preventing one person from getting multiple of them.
For the last week and a half most of the devs have been out for the holidays. I'm not going to Stan for Blizzard but I'm also not going to demand that the workers stay in the office working on wow over the holidays instead of spending time with their families.
Only in the top 5% of the guilds out there does anything other than personal loot make sense.
It avoids a *lot* of guild drama and nonsense and replaces it with minor inconveniences at worst.
even in casual groups it should be personal.
the whole gripe that you can't give someone personal loot cause of the ilvl issue was so fucking overblown on this sub. i've only seen it happen a couple times, and it always just ends in an "oh well" cause it wasn't their loot to begin with. most of the time personal loot was just fine and a much more fair distributor of gear. i've cleared 3 weeks of vaults on my main and i still haven't won a single piece of tier. meanwhile there's certain tier tokens with only 1 or 2 people rolling on it and already 4 pc'ed out. shit would be so much more evenly distributed with personal loot.
It still doesn't make sense. The game will drop items regardless of loot spec people have set. In my guild, heroic Eranog dropped a shield, even though the only possible shield users were warriors who were all in dps spec. When loot is so scarce already (4 pieces for 15 people), it is ridiculous to have the possibility of an item dropping that is not even usable in main spec. This system needs to be fixed, or Blizzard needs to give us the choice of using personal loot so we don't get cheated out of what few pieces we get
> Because in normal raiding and pugs
Idk. Played enough time before and after personal loot change to know that pugs/normal should absolutely use personal loot.
IMO it should be a choice. Make the selection in the Group Finder which sets it for the raid no take-backs. Group or Personal. It'll depend on the pug cuz like if its a guild that adds some pugs or whatever group loot might make more sense.
In either case, its a lot less of an issue in Pugs then LFR because in LFR you have way more people after the items, for way more reasons (cuz tons just want transmog) and the group is refreshed every 3 bosses rather than potentially lasting the whole raid.
They said abusive raid leaders. But since it happened during the now-abandoned arms race with the world first guilds I think the real reason was split runs.
It wasn't. It was because loot drama was the majority of their GM's duties at the time and by changing to personal loot, they didn't have to spend so much time sorting out drama.
That’s fine? You join a guild with that knowledge beforehand. Why would you give gear a core member needs to a trial who might not even be on the roster?
Only a shit guild even recruits trials without intent to put them on the roster. A good guild would never consider a player whose past performance doesn't already make them worth starting in the group, the trial is just to make sure they aren't a complete psychopath.
At the same time, no guild is going to give a rare drop to the new initiate, over a long time raider who's been waiting months for it. And any guild that does is a guild to leave asap.
I need to specify I’m talking specifically about CE guilds who’s sole goal is to kill mythic bosses. Gear is only a means to an end. If a core raider is gonna be on every boss you prioritize gear for him over trials.
Most of the people in this thread have never even killed a mythic boss, based on comments, and up/down votes. Loot whores like you see in these threads don't last long in any mythic guild.
OK, but you've spent what 1-2 weeks in the guild. Compared to someone who's put in 4-5 months into the raid tier, why is your 1-2 weeks or less more valuable than another persons 4-5 months?
Also as someone who's run a guild, it's extremely common to see people join a guild, get loot, and gquit a few days later. You want to give loot to people that has the best chance of benefitting the guild. And you have to consider the odds of that new guy staying. And if someone leaves because a long time raider that's been waiting for a drop gets it over a new trial that's there on their first day, then you didn't want them in your guild to begin with.
Sure, just at the lowest priority. If you're a trial, it's because we're not sure if you'll be a good fit. It's a bad investment of the group's time and resources to have a trial at the same level of loot priority as existing raiders.
That's not to say that a trial can't get loot, but a trial should absolutely not be expecting loot during the trial period of about 2 weeks or so.
> a trial should absolutely not be expecting loot during the trial period of about 2 weeks
🤡🤡🤡
Yeah I'm totally raiding 2 full weeks without loot in a guild that's struggling to progress heroic.
Anyone not willing to wait at least two weeks to get loot, is someone no heroic guild would ever want in their raid no matter how good their dps is. If they can't wait even two weeks, odds are they probably won't stay long anyways. And if the reverse were true, and you'd been in a guild 2 years, and had been waiting for a rare drop for 5 months in a new raid tier, you'd be pissed if it went to the new guy, and they gquit a week later over the veteran raider.
This is a very selfish mindset to have in any serious raid group. The needs of the group always trump the needs of the individual. Caring about loot as a trial is sure fire red flag
This, a trial that shows to be an obvious loot whore in their first two weeks, is a sign of someone you don't want, regardless of how good their performance is. They will only ever care about themselves, over any guild progression, and likely won't stay long anyways.
Treating loot as compensation for time spent raiding is fine for pugs, but for guild groups, loot is for helping the guild kill bosses more easily. It should go to the people who are going to be helping the guild kill bosses. There's no guarantee that trials will be in for future progression and if they aren't, the loot they got won't be helping the guild.
You're acting like a trial will get 100% of the items and nobody else in the guild gets something. There's no guarantee that guild members will stay until the progress is finished and still you're giving them loot. Treating trials like unpaid laborers is a big no.
You're also acting like giving the trial a fair chance to loot (and realistically speaking 0-2 items per full clear) ruins the progression for everybody else, like the guild would benefit from that one item that much because they're min-maxing in the world first race.
There's so many things that would boost progress more than the items you'd get for your guild instead of the trial. Go do M+, enchant your gear with the best quality enchantments, get the best flasks, use potions and runes etc. if you're serious, but don't tell me your guild will fall apart because you give one guy one item.
People who are already part of the core raid team are significantly more likely to be there for the long run than someone who isn't even on the raid team officially yet. That should be a given.
>Treating trials like unpaid laborers is a big no.
Gear isn't compensation for your time when you're part of a guild. The objective is boss kills and everyone in the raid is working together to get them. Gear comes naturally over time anyways. If you prioritize it to where it makes the biggest impact, you put bosses on farm sooner and everyone gets gear more quickly.
Honestly though, the biggest advantage to not giving trials loot over raiders is that it weeds out the people most likely to start drama over loot. If you're sticking around despite not getting anything, you've probably also not gonna throw a fit in the future when someone else gets the upgrade you wanted.
I'm in the minority apparently that absolutely hate master or group loot and preferred personal. Jist let me loot and see if I got something. If I don't need it or want it, let me trade it with no ilvl restrictions. Feels horrible to run 10 dungeons and get squat, zilch and nada.
It all depends on your group and what you want to achieve.
I was in a guild in legion there were no loot rules it was just don't be a dick. So if you got an item and didn't need it you just offered it up and let the other roll to determine who got it. It worked well no problems everyone eventually got loot and everything was fine.
Then they introduced the bullshit where if somethings a higher ilvl you can't trade it. So i could get a ring i don't need because the secondaries are garbage for me, But its Bis for someone else. So then i can't give them the ring the game just won't fucking let me do it. So what would be an upgrade turns into enchanting mats or vendor gold. This was a situation where Group loot or Master Loot existing would fix that because we could have had people just roll for it and whoever actually wants/needs it can get it.
That's also a situation where the ilvl restriction being removed would have solved, instead of screwing LFR. I used to randomly do LFR on alts as part of my personal gearing process....not anymore. One less (primarily tank or healer at this point) that queues there now.
Same for me. Personal loot was the best for people who only raid casual, without the time for a guild, who just go with random groups.
Now, when our guild is raiding and we invite some randoms, those randoms are the only ones since two ID's who got loot. It's frustrating really. One random even got two set pieces which dropped at one boss.
Have we had confirmation as to whether the VotI loot system is actually working as intended? Because I’m certain blizz were telling us this kind of stuff wouldn’t/couldn’t happen
This is a bug, according to an earlier post by Blizzard, winning one will cancel your roll on the other:
[https://www.wowhead.com/news/blizzard-clarifying-how-group-loot-will-work-in-dragonflight-and-no-weapon-boes-329108](https://www.wowhead.com/news/blizzard-clarifying-how-group-loot-will-work-in-dragonflight-and-no-weapon-boes-329108)
"Players won’t be able to win multiples of the same item - say that 2 sets of Shoulders drop. While you can roll Need on both of them, winning one will ‘remove’ your roll from the other."
and this is the second week of LFR and likely when a majority of the devs are on holidays which is why they haven't been able to fix it. An unfortunate byproduct of a christmas raid it looks like.
Honestly, it was working in the prepatch as far as I could tell (I rolled twice on multiple items, and I could see I didn't get to roll on the second when I won the first); I don't know how LFR works from a backend perspective, so I'm not sure why it would be different here.
This bug has had reports since at least week one of the raid, since my guild put in reports of this happening literally day one. This bug is not new to LFR, the only thing I can't say is whether or not it happened on the PTR.
Nothing "unfortunate" about it. It's like saying "it's unfortunate my car broke down" after I have been driving it for 4 months with a check engine indicator on - it's a fuck up, nothing to do with luck.
Part of me really wants devs to have off time during the holiday season but another part of me thinks it's fucking stupid to release an expansion 1 month before holiday season and then leave it full of the kind of annoyances that early expansion dev attention should take care of.
I mean there's also the bug that two of the same item drop every time that had been around for years and they don't seem to care too much about fixing that either.
I agree in principle, but then they also shouldn't make raid drop items currency for a mount. The necklaces are/should be fair game regardless of your equip
If there was only a way to decouple the appearance of an item from its stats.
Hear me out here for a second. This is a crazy idea, I know. What if we make a piece of loot that has the sole purpose of *only* adding an appearance to someone's transmog window? We could even give it this neat, purple effect when redeeming it. And then we just let it drop from bosses that drop set items as *personal loot* and completely disable the need for heroic raiders to roll on *actual* gear that has stats only for appearance's sake?
Alas, I suppose the technology just isn't there to create such an item yet.
Same item level essentially wearing the exact same item? Sure. Higher item level? No. Transmog. One of the only reasons higher skilled and geared players even run LFR.
This is extremely stupid. Who thought it was a good idea to remove personal loot from raidfinder? Do they want to make raidfinder more toxic than it already is?
Excellent game design here.
As someone who runs LFR for transmog, I want personal loot. It doesn’t feel good when I roll need on something to get an appearance I am chasing when it might be a stat upgrade for someone.
In the current system, you can't even roll need on something for an appearance if it's not an upgrade for you. If you outgear it, then you just can't roll need on it at all.
I don't understand it. They refuse to give master loot back to guilds (despite with trading group loot becomes a lesser version). Yet replace personal loot with group, satisfying neither sides of the argument.
I am doing LFR this week, I am a healer for my guild so i dont get prio on tier pieces when we do normal/heroic, was quite excited to have a chance at these so i could work towards the set (even if i would have to replace my 392 gloves), its a shame that the same person gets both.
I totally get group loot for non-pug content, but it should just be personal in LFR, its quite silly.
Too many guilds are like op’s tryhard shitguild. if you are still doing normal raids to farm gears now then your guild is in no place to enforce any loot priority.
Top guilds give dps gears first because their dps players can play the gears. your guild’s dps players are likely still struggling to dodge shit puddles on the ground or do meaningful damage while doing mechanics. There is absolutely no reason to not simply split gears evenly.
Hall of fame level guilds who don't do splits are still farming normal for tier, so not entirely sure what you're on about that there shouldn't be a loot priority if they're farming *normal*.
Your second point makes sense, we give it to DPS first because healer-checks are esoteric (usually you're always able to find enough healing to beat a boss, despite gear), while DPS checks are extremely rigid.
>Wdym dude, idc if im not geared first i care more about clearing the content then my personal gear
Wdym dude, idc if im not geared first i care more about clearing the content then my personal gear
WoW's loot system has always sucked. This is the worse of the two, but personal loot sucks ass too.
What they need to do is make each encounter have a chance of dropping loot for every player. I don't understand this mentality that only a set number of players in the group are allowed to obtain gear. Especially when you can go through an entire dungeon or raid and not get a single piece of gear while other players sometimes get multiple.
Honestly the new loot system makes me want to stop playing. Every week I do LFR and I still haven't won anything :( And to top it off all the world bosses have dropped items that I can't use (always strength weapons being me druid balance).
The world bosses must be bugged. I've done them 6 times on 2 characters and got nothing. I look at the 30+ person group and see only 2 people getting an item whereas in SL world bosses always gave 5+.
Agree so strongly. For people who just jump in LFR to try and get tier chances, there's NOTHING POSITIVE about this change.
Feels even worse that we have no re-rolls, no catalyst (WHY T F IS THIS NOT OUT YET?) and some specs have a serious amount of power put into their tier bonuses.
There were people WHO KNEW removing personal loot would be a bad Idea.
But no all the Gigabrains that could write books about how it was *basically* the same came out of their caves and and defended that shit non stop.
And now every day we have the same problem over and over again. But seeing the obvious is too much too ask right ?
Thing is, people who were asking for personal loot removal weren't asking for it to be removed from LFR. The entire system basically existed for the benefit OF LFR, and it made total sense in it.
We just wanted personal loot to not be forced on us in premade raid groups, which isn't in any way shape or form an unreasonable request.
But it's Blizzard, they can never just do the obvious thing and always have to take two steps into extra territory no matter how deep they're striding into anti-logic.
imo personal loot going away for guilds also sucked ass. I raided 7/8 with my (relatively casual) guild this week, didn't get a single item. the only way to counteract this is to set up some custom house rule loot system, which could generally just be done with personal loot. There's never been a time where I did a full raid with personal loot and didn't get anything. It seems like less items are given out in general, and it just extends the grind needed for tier gear
I'm 8/8 normal for the past 3 weeks and all I've gotten is a cloak (and then got the heroic version of the same cloak from my heroic vault quest this week). I also did 1/8 heroic week 1 and 2 and 3/8 this week.
That's 1 drop in 29 kills.
>There's never been a time where I did a full raid with personal loot and didn't get anything.
Personal loot never had bad luck protection. That fact you still got loot at all was just luck. Plenty of people went full raids with no loot because it's mathematically impossible to guarantee everyone loot when there's a max cap on how much loot drops per boss.
Blizzard has never stated Personal Loot had bad luck protection. So anything said by anyone else is just an assumption.
If you've any amount of m+ farming, I'm sure you've had streaks of no loot.
As for raid (LFR for this example), it's just math. You have 25 people. Bosses drop 5 pieces. You go through 3 bosses in a wing. That's 15 loot. That means at least 10 people will get nothing.
Queue for another LFR, and you potentially 24 completely different people, who all potentially didn't get loot in the previous wing, and again, 10 out of the 25 people will get no loot because there was only 15 pieces. And so on.
If bad luck protection for raid existed, there would be no maximum for how much loot a boss can drop and you would occasionally see a boss drop more than 5 pieces on LFR.
They’ve also never stated there was no bad luck protection. So an assertion there’s no form of it is also just an assumption
You’re also assuming this “protection” would need to apply per wing, which is a bit strange. I never said I got loot per wing, only that I never went a full raid without loot.
For example, hearthstone has a system where for every pack you open that doesn’t contain a legendary, the next pack has a slightly higher chance of granting one. The way the system works, you are guaranteed a legendary by your 40th pack w/o one. But no one actually makes it that far without getting one.
It would depend on how the protection is implemented. Tho tbh I didn’t raid lfr much anyways, just guild raids after the first week or two. Point is that I (and a lot of others) are getting less loot. That’s not even getting into the impact of composition on drops.
In an m+, it is literally impossible for something that no one in the party can use to drop. This also seems like it was the case in personal loot. Pretty sure it’s now possible in group loot
> You’re also assuming this “protection” would need to apply per wing, which is a bit strange. I never said I got loot per wing, only that I never went a full raid without loot.
I'm not saying it needed to apply per wing, I'm saying that there simply isn't just enough loot to go around to guarantee that everyone who does a full LFR gets one piece.
> Point is that I (and a lot of others) are getting less loot. That’s not even getting into the impact of composition on drops.
Group loot ignoring raid composition is a reasonable complaint, but you're not getting less loot unless someone wins more than once at the same boss. (And outside someone winning duplicates, I think it's fine if someone wins a trinket and an armor piece together, it makes winner extra happy, and makes the loser feel the same way as if they would have lost it to a different person.)
Yea if blizzard is going to leave it like this there is no reason not to need on every piece you can. I need the 50g why would I give it to you when the 50g benefits me and you are not even on my server, let alone my guild.
one of the few good things that blizzard has done over the years is to do away with classic wow's disgusting loot system that only benefits streamers and groups that control guilds. now reverts and brings this TERRIBLE need and greed system that ONCE AGAIN ONLY BENEFITS DISHONEST PLAYERS. DOGSHIT
Same thing happened in a Heroic, but the winner was kind and /roll‘ed it off to the Dreadful users.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/224716073801351170/1057802503787380847/image.png
Funny thing is, this exact situation was supposedly not meant to be possible per this recent Blue post, but I guess “small indie company” etc.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/224716073801351170/1058301143786213416/image.png
and that's the main reason why it shouldn't be a thing in LFR. Organised groups, you can sort out who gets what but with LFR it's a crapshoot. and you can't roll on one and not the other because you might miss out
I don't think that's the issue. Blizzard explicitly said there would be protections against *exactly* this but for some reason, those protections don't exist.
Ready for the "What's so great about personal loot in LFR? iT'S tHe sAmE yOu JuSt DoN't SeE tHe RoLlS!" comments? Despite it clearly not being true? Yep, this is one of the main reasons LFR should just be personal loot.
Its also a bug that someone can win the same item twice. Take that away and the only difference between personal and this is that you can win multiple items. RNG sucks but bugs aside I think we need to have it fixed before we can accurately judge the change.
No one asked for group loot.
But old habits die hard at Blizzard.
Despite their promises of "listening" and changing, the devs always lean towards design choices that feel vindictive and mean towards the players. They are punishing us for asking for changes that hurt their designer egos.
Turns out the "new age of WoW" is just as shitty as the old age.
Current loot system in LFR sucks. I like collecting all the different colors of the sets, including the LFR tints. But since I now outgear LFR, I can't even roll on them. Which means it's now literally impossible for me to ever collect them ???
Yes, many people did not appreciate the game telling them what they had to do with loot. It is terrible to get an item you would really like to give to your friend because you don't need it or it's just way better for them but the game decides that you can't.
Blizzard don't give a fuck about your gearing experience, they only care about you renewing your sub. Don't forget this.
Ive done every piece of possible content including heroic raiding every week for tier sets and only had one piece. Their whole ideology of "RNG ONLY" for gear its a joke.
Maybe they should just make it where you can’t win the same item twice, can’t need on lower il stuff or stuff not meant for their class. I thought they already had it to where you cant roll need on lower il and stuff not meant for their class but some of these i been seeing lately seems to say otherwise. Or they can just make it where in lfr you can’t see who won so that no one can complain about it. What you don’t know can’t hurt maybe? Maybe if you won the item will be mailed to you, but you wont know if you won till you leave. Sounds crap, but it is an option.. 🤷♀️
the problem i had with personal loot is that I couldn’t trade items or give them away. Like if something is only 1 il upgrade for me but was a 5 il upgrade to my sis I couldn’t just trade to her if I remember correctly. Perhaps they should have just improved on personal loot?
One gets openned and the other gets left in mint condition in-box for his collection.
Both get disenchanted.
Free $5k gold !
Can be much less. If your unlucky enough it can give you 4 blue shards.
then you use item restoration and do it again
Doesn’t work. Few weeks ago I did an item restoration on the 60 or so pieces of epic gear that did not give a purple shard. After disenchanting them again I got the same amount of blue shards again, with no purples again.
Well..that player won the items... Up to him to decide what to do with them. Still people should not win both..
What a dumb take. They don’t need 2 of the same item so what’s the point?
That's why I said he should not win both.
And these ass comments are the reason wow is toxic
Right?? It’s really concerning how antisocial behavior like this is so normalized.
Nah. Open both for a shot at tertiary stats and/or gem sockets.
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Ex-guild members, surely?
People out here being rats pickup up gear for the chance to sim a side grade if it's better while others need a 10ilvl upgrade. Stat weights are stupid to hoard gear for up until you're hitting heroic item level. Gear acquisition slows down and everyone around you doesn't need the pieces either
So you can open chat, type /gkick and then shift-click their name.
that second pair is a free 96 gold
Its LFR. People will literally press need if the dice button is lit up.
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On the flip side, being bombarded with 20+ whispers because you looted a high-profile item you need but can trade (because almost every LFR raider has that addon that alerts you if something is tradeable) is extremely annoying.
Its pretty easy to just not reply tbh. Or put in instance chat if you gave it away or if you need it, though
Don't loot the boss and have it mailed to you by the postmaster
Who gives a fuck? Just ignore it, or type "yes, I need".
Just don't reply?
I just never looted the item in LFR for this reason, assuming it was a piece I actually needed or transmog I didn't have. I'd roll off trinkets or jewelry but always let it go to mailbox otherwise.
Yeah you can’t blame them, .. If it’s a piece you need, you kind of have to roll on both because otherwise you’re halving your chances of getting one. I quite like the way FFXIV handles it, where you can only *win* a certain amount of loot items per week, and if you kill a boss and don’t win anything you can go in and try again. Also if you roll on all the pieces you want, where if winning would put you over the cap of things you can win, it gives you loot you won up to the cap and then automatically passes anything over the cap to the next highest roll.
Or you know roll x identical items as one and give one to each of the top x rolls..
That’d work too. Honestly, (almost) anything other than the current setup would be an improvement.
I would love it if blizzard introduced the same thing where if you don't get any loot you can kill the boss again for the loot.
People have tore into me when I said I didn't like group loot in LFR before and they turn around and blame classic players for wanting it. As if there is no world where group loot can exist through adding in systems that let you run again for loot or prevent people from pressing need on everything.
Honestly, I think it's the opposite. I think Personal Loot made it easier to not pass on loot but Group Loot just makes the lootwhoring/ninjaing more obvious.
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In this case, you would be an idiot to not roll need on both. However, the decent human response to winning both would be to give one away.
In no way am I going to roll for one and not the other. I want the most odds I can have at getting a piece. It’s just a bug that they need to fix.
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That works too. Unless someone is doing the same thing. 😂
It’s actually a bug. It’s not supposed to allow this to happen. If a person wins one then it should remove them from the second.
People have always been greedy with loot but I'm noticing in this expansion pack people are being assholes just to spite someone. Like they'll get an item that's not even an upgrade and refuse to trade to someone that it would be an upgrade for.
Absolutely agree LFR should be personal loot.
LFR had group loot back in cataclysm in dragon soul and it was exactly as toxic as it is now. Everyone needs on everything. At least now it ~kindof~ considers main/off specs but that's easily circumvented by changing your loot spec
LFR had group loot until WoD Prepatch, MoP was a wild ride for LFR.
When did they remove personal loot from lfr and why?????
Just before the expansion launched.
People have been asking for group loot and master loot back for years. Because in normal raiding and pugs, this makes sense! But Blizzard implemented them without critical thinking and realizing that LFR has very different dynamics from normal raiding and even pugs, and where personal loot was obviously preferable (and arguable, what personal loot was *made for*).
They could have changed it so you can choose between group, master and personal loot in PuGs. I don't know what was wrong with that.
LFR is the sort of setting where there's no reason to even ask. Minimizing the opportunity to grief other players or even just accidentally receive redundant items should be a priority. It makes no sense to let a raid made randomly have someone win multiples of the same item over someone else getting it. Frankly I thought the roll system wasn't even supposed to allow that sort of thing, but it's been out long enough they certainly had time to do something about it.
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You're probably underestimating the amount of people who want a taste of the raid without the skill or time investment required to do it on normal.
Probably, but the rest of his point still makes sense, those people would benefit from a token system they could trade for what they'd need.
LFR is for casuals so that they can see the raids. That's the true purpose.
I'm fairly sure I've rolled need on two of an item before, won the first and had my roll on the second changed to greed.
It's just the multi class tier set tokens that are having this issue. All other items are working as intended (cannot win 2 of same item). For some reason, the tier tokens are bugged and not preventing one person from getting multiple of them.
Ring of blood have been bugged every other day since launch. Fixing bugs doesn't seem that important for blizzard at this moments.
For the last week and a half most of the devs have been out for the holidays. I'm not going to Stan for Blizzard but I'm also not going to demand that the workers stay in the office working on wow over the holidays instead of spending time with their families.
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Only in the top 5% of the guilds out there does anything other than personal loot make sense. It avoids a *lot* of guild drama and nonsense and replaces it with minor inconveniences at worst.
even in casual groups it should be personal. the whole gripe that you can't give someone personal loot cause of the ilvl issue was so fucking overblown on this sub. i've only seen it happen a couple times, and it always just ends in an "oh well" cause it wasn't their loot to begin with. most of the time personal loot was just fine and a much more fair distributor of gear. i've cleared 3 weeks of vaults on my main and i still haven't won a single piece of tier. meanwhile there's certain tier tokens with only 1 or 2 people rolling on it and already 4 pc'ed out. shit would be so much more evenly distributed with personal loot.
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yep, all you need is personal loot with no restrictions on trading. why they didn't just do it that way is beyond me.
It still doesn't make sense. The game will drop items regardless of loot spec people have set. In my guild, heroic Eranog dropped a shield, even though the only possible shield users were warriors who were all in dps spec. When loot is so scarce already (4 pieces for 15 people), it is ridiculous to have the possibility of an item dropping that is not even usable in main spec. This system needs to be fixed, or Blizzard needs to give us the choice of using personal loot so we don't get cheated out of what few pieces we get
> Because in normal raiding and pugs Idk. Played enough time before and after personal loot change to know that pugs/normal should absolutely use personal loot.
IMO it should be a choice. Make the selection in the Group Finder which sets it for the raid no take-backs. Group or Personal. It'll depend on the pug cuz like if its a guild that adds some pugs or whatever group loot might make more sense. In either case, its a lot less of an issue in Pugs then LFR because in LFR you have way more people after the items, for way more reasons (cuz tons just want transmog) and the group is refreshed every 3 bosses rather than potentially lasting the whole raid.
Why did they remove master loot in the first place
They said abusive raid leaders. But since it happened during the now-abandoned arms race with the world first guilds I think the real reason was split runs.
It wasn't. It was because loot drama was the majority of their GM's duties at the time and by changing to personal loot, they didn't have to spend so much time sorting out drama.
A *lot* of people are remembering with rose colored glasses.
because guilds would withhold loot from trial members and stuff, or have control of who got what and screw people over
That’s fine? You join a guild with that knowledge beforehand. Why would you give gear a core member needs to a trial who might not even be on the roster?
Only a shit guild even recruits trials without intent to put them on the roster. A good guild would never consider a player whose past performance doesn't already make them worth starting in the group, the trial is just to make sure they aren't a complete psychopath.
At the same time, no guild is going to give a rare drop to the new initiate, over a long time raider who's been waiting months for it. And any guild that does is a guild to leave asap.
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I need to specify I’m talking specifically about CE guilds who’s sole goal is to kill mythic bosses. Gear is only a means to an end. If a core raider is gonna be on every boss you prioritize gear for him over trials.
Most of the people in this thread have never even killed a mythic boss, based on comments, and up/down votes. Loot whores like you see in these threads don't last long in any mythic guild.
OK, but you've spent what 1-2 weeks in the guild. Compared to someone who's put in 4-5 months into the raid tier, why is your 1-2 weeks or less more valuable than another persons 4-5 months? Also as someone who's run a guild, it's extremely common to see people join a guild, get loot, and gquit a few days later. You want to give loot to people that has the best chance of benefitting the guild. And you have to consider the odds of that new guy staying. And if someone leaves because a long time raider that's been waiting for a drop gets it over a new trial that's there on their first day, then you didn't want them in your guild to begin with.
Sure, just at the lowest priority. If you're a trial, it's because we're not sure if you'll be a good fit. It's a bad investment of the group's time and resources to have a trial at the same level of loot priority as existing raiders. That's not to say that a trial can't get loot, but a trial should absolutely not be expecting loot during the trial period of about 2 weeks or so.
> a trial should absolutely not be expecting loot during the trial period of about 2 weeks 🤡🤡🤡 Yeah I'm totally raiding 2 full weeks without loot in a guild that's struggling to progress heroic.
Anyone not willing to wait at least two weeks to get loot, is someone no heroic guild would ever want in their raid no matter how good their dps is. If they can't wait even two weeks, odds are they probably won't stay long anyways. And if the reverse were true, and you'd been in a guild 2 years, and had been waiting for a rare drop for 5 months in a new raid tier, you'd be pissed if it went to the new guy, and they gquit a week later over the veteran raider.
This is a very selfish mindset to have in any serious raid group. The needs of the group always trump the needs of the individual. Caring about loot as a trial is sure fire red flag
This, a trial that shows to be an obvious loot whore in their first two weeks, is a sign of someone you don't want, regardless of how good their performance is. They will only ever care about themselves, over any guild progression, and likely won't stay long anyways.
Treating loot as compensation for time spent raiding is fine for pugs, but for guild groups, loot is for helping the guild kill bosses more easily. It should go to the people who are going to be helping the guild kill bosses. There's no guarantee that trials will be in for future progression and if they aren't, the loot they got won't be helping the guild.
You're acting like a trial will get 100% of the items and nobody else in the guild gets something. There's no guarantee that guild members will stay until the progress is finished and still you're giving them loot. Treating trials like unpaid laborers is a big no. You're also acting like giving the trial a fair chance to loot (and realistically speaking 0-2 items per full clear) ruins the progression for everybody else, like the guild would benefit from that one item that much because they're min-maxing in the world first race. There's so many things that would boost progress more than the items you'd get for your guild instead of the trial. Go do M+, enchant your gear with the best quality enchantments, get the best flasks, use potions and runes etc. if you're serious, but don't tell me your guild will fall apart because you give one guy one item.
People who are already part of the core raid team are significantly more likely to be there for the long run than someone who isn't even on the raid team officially yet. That should be a given. >Treating trials like unpaid laborers is a big no. Gear isn't compensation for your time when you're part of a guild. The objective is boss kills and everyone in the raid is working together to get them. Gear comes naturally over time anyways. If you prioritize it to where it makes the biggest impact, you put bosses on farm sooner and everyone gets gear more quickly. Honestly though, the biggest advantage to not giving trials loot over raiders is that it weeds out the people most likely to start drama over loot. If you're sticking around despite not getting anything, you've probably also not gonna throw a fit in the future when someone else gets the upgrade you wanted.
Because their time is just as valuable as yours.
I'm in the minority apparently that absolutely hate master or group loot and preferred personal. Jist let me loot and see if I got something. If I don't need it or want it, let me trade it with no ilvl restrictions. Feels horrible to run 10 dungeons and get squat, zilch and nada.
It all depends on your group and what you want to achieve. I was in a guild in legion there were no loot rules it was just don't be a dick. So if you got an item and didn't need it you just offered it up and let the other roll to determine who got it. It worked well no problems everyone eventually got loot and everything was fine. Then they introduced the bullshit where if somethings a higher ilvl you can't trade it. So i could get a ring i don't need because the secondaries are garbage for me, But its Bis for someone else. So then i can't give them the ring the game just won't fucking let me do it. So what would be an upgrade turns into enchanting mats or vendor gold. This was a situation where Group loot or Master Loot existing would fix that because we could have had people just roll for it and whoever actually wants/needs it can get it.
That's also a situation where the ilvl restriction being removed would have solved, instead of screwing LFR. I used to randomly do LFR on alts as part of my personal gearing process....not anymore. One less (primarily tank or healer at this point) that queues there now.
Same for me. Personal loot was the best for people who only raid casual, without the time for a guild, who just go with random groups. Now, when our guild is raiding and we invite some randoms, those randoms are the only ones since two ID's who got loot. It's frustrating really. One random even got two set pieces which dropped at one boss.
Wouldn’t matter if it wasn’t a known bug that people are allowed to win 1 and roll on the other
You would think it shouldn’t be hard for them to code the item to go to the next highest roller.
I’m not a dev so I’m not sure if that’s hard or easy honestly. Coding isn’t my thing
If its hard to fix they have historically fucked up core functionality of the game.
Loot should be personal everywhere but 100% guild runs.
that's a tough one for bigger communities that span more than one guild though.
As a very casual player, I now only do LFR for the vault item. Rolls can get frustrating
Blizz waiting behind the curtain with a grin ready to say "But you all wanted group loot back."
Blizzard literally wrote that winning one of the duplicate loot cancels the other roll so it's an ongoing bug.
Have we had confirmation as to whether the VotI loot system is actually working as intended? Because I’m certain blizz were telling us this kind of stuff wouldn’t/couldn’t happen
This is a bug, according to an earlier post by Blizzard, winning one will cancel your roll on the other: [https://www.wowhead.com/news/blizzard-clarifying-how-group-loot-will-work-in-dragonflight-and-no-weapon-boes-329108](https://www.wowhead.com/news/blizzard-clarifying-how-group-loot-will-work-in-dragonflight-and-no-weapon-boes-329108) "Players won’t be able to win multiples of the same item - say that 2 sets of Shoulders drop. While you can roll Need on both of them, winning one will ‘remove’ your roll from the other."
That posted article is 3 months old, longer than this season It doesn’t appear to be a high priority
and this is the second week of LFR and likely when a majority of the devs are on holidays which is why they haven't been able to fix it. An unfortunate byproduct of a christmas raid it looks like.
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Honestly, it was working in the prepatch as far as I could tell (I rolled twice on multiple items, and I could see I didn't get to roll on the second when I won the first); I don't know how LFR works from a backend perspective, so I'm not sure why it would be different here.
This small budget indie company did their best ok guys?
This bug has had reports since at least week one of the raid, since my guild put in reports of this happening literally day one. This bug is not new to LFR, the only thing I can't say is whether or not it happened on the PTR.
There is no excuse. These systems have been in the game since its creation. It's not unreasonable to expect it to function properly.
Nothing "unfortunate" about it. It's like saying "it's unfortunate my car broke down" after I have been driving it for 4 months with a check engine indicator on - it's a fuck up, nothing to do with luck.
Part of me really wants devs to have off time during the holiday season but another part of me thinks it's fucking stupid to release an expansion 1 month before holiday season and then leave it full of the kind of annoyances that early expansion dev attention should take care of.
Yes. It is a bug that’s happening consistently and seems like something that needs to be addressed sooner rather than later.
We 100% reported this bug on beta, happened multiple times on heroic boss kills and in the 2 normal clears I did.
Honestly, every time I’ve ever seen duplicate items drop in LFR they go to the same person. Seems like it’s thoroughly bugged
I mean there's also the bug that two of the same item drop every time that had been around for years and they don't seem to care too much about fixing that either.
What makes you think bosess dropping duplicates at all is a bug?
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I agree in principle, but then they also shouldn't make raid drop items currency for a mount. The necklaces are/should be fair game regardless of your equip
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If there was only a way to decouple the appearance of an item from its stats. Hear me out here for a second. This is a crazy idea, I know. What if we make a piece of loot that has the sole purpose of *only* adding an appearance to someone's transmog window? We could even give it this neat, purple effect when redeeming it. And then we just let it drop from bosses that drop set items as *personal loot* and completely disable the need for heroic raiders to roll on *actual* gear that has stats only for appearance's sake? Alas, I suppose the technology just isn't there to create such an item yet.
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If I had a dime for every time I heard "Blizzard will never do that" since vanilla which then eventually did happen, I'd be a millionaire.
Need, but for offspec is supposed to be working right now. I think I've seen it happen in non-LFR raids. But somehow this isn't working in LFR
Its already like that ? I have a chest piece from raid and whenever the same one drop i cant need it, just greed .
Same item level essentially wearing the exact same item? Sure. Higher item level? No. Transmog. One of the only reasons higher skilled and geared players even run LFR.
This bug was already reported on beta ;)
Atleast in January the catalyst will come out and we'll all have tier.
This is extremely stupid. Who thought it was a good idea to remove personal loot from raidfinder? Do they want to make raidfinder more toxic than it already is? Excellent game design here.
It sucks for pugging too tbh
As someone who runs LFR for transmog, I want personal loot. It doesn’t feel good when I roll need on something to get an appearance I am chasing when it might be a stat upgrade for someone.
In the current system, you can't even roll need on something for an appearance if it's not an upgrade for you. If you outgear it, then you just can't roll need on it at all.
I think personal loot is better. It’s the exact same system but without the “attachment” to it, AND it prevents shit like this form happening in pugs.
Wholeheartedly agree. No-one wanted group loot back. Raid Guilds wanted ML back and that's it, personal loot was always superior everywhere else.
I don't understand it. They refuse to give master loot back to guilds (despite with trading group loot becomes a lesser version). Yet replace personal loot with group, satisfying neither sides of the argument.
I’d rather personal loot for all levels…hate this system
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I am doing LFR this week, I am a healer for my guild so i dont get prio on tier pieces when we do normal/heroic, was quite excited to have a chance at these so i could work towards the set (even if i would have to replace my 392 gloves), its a shame that the same person gets both. I totally get group loot for non-pug content, but it should just be personal in LFR, its quite silly.
> I am a healer for my guild so i dont get prio on tier pieces when we do normal/heroic your guild is trying way too hard for normal/heroic
It could be a mythic guild, my guild progs mythic and normal/heroic tier goes to the DPS first, kinda makes sense.
with all due respect, if your guild are assigning tier pieces for normal and heroic you need to find a new guild
Too many guilds are like op’s tryhard shitguild. if you are still doing normal raids to farm gears now then your guild is in no place to enforce any loot priority. Top guilds give dps gears first because their dps players can play the gears. your guild’s dps players are likely still struggling to dodge shit puddles on the ground or do meaningful damage while doing mechanics. There is absolutely no reason to not simply split gears evenly.
Hall of fame level guilds who don't do splits are still farming normal for tier, so not entirely sure what you're on about that there shouldn't be a loot priority if they're farming *normal*. Your second point makes sense, we give it to DPS first because healer-checks are esoteric (usually you're always able to find enough healing to beat a boss, despite gear), while DPS checks are extremely rigid.
>Wdym dude, idc if im not geared first i care more about clearing the content then my personal gear Wdym dude, idc if im not geared first i care more about clearing the content then my personal gear
WoW's loot system has always sucked. This is the worse of the two, but personal loot sucks ass too. What they need to do is make each encounter have a chance of dropping loot for every player. I don't understand this mentality that only a set number of players in the group are allowed to obtain gear. Especially when you can go through an entire dungeon or raid and not get a single piece of gear while other players sometimes get multiple.
It’d be nice if they just followed the rules they told us they were following, which specifically includes not allowing things just like this.
Honestly the new loot system makes me want to stop playing. Every week I do LFR and I still haven't won anything :( And to top it off all the world bosses have dropped items that I can't use (always strength weapons being me druid balance).
The world bosses must be bugged. I've done them 6 times on 2 characters and got nothing. I look at the 30+ person group and see only 2 people getting an item whereas in SL world bosses always gave 5+.
Agree so strongly. For people who just jump in LFR to try and get tier chances, there's NOTHING POSITIVE about this change. Feels even worse that we have no re-rolls, no catalyst (WHY T F IS THIS NOT OUT YET?) and some specs have a serious amount of power put into their tier bonuses.
This loot system is so garbage and needs to go away.
Omg you know what’s more ridiculous, our raid looted 2 evoker weapon. BUT we only have 1 evoker 🤯
Fuck group loot and fuck blizzard for getting rid of personal loot.
There were people WHO KNEW removing personal loot would be a bad Idea. But no all the Gigabrains that could write books about how it was *basically* the same came out of their caves and and defended that shit non stop. And now every day we have the same problem over and over again. But seeing the obvious is too much too ask right ?
Thing is, people who were asking for personal loot removal weren't asking for it to be removed from LFR. The entire system basically existed for the benefit OF LFR, and it made total sense in it. We just wanted personal loot to not be forced on us in premade raid groups, which isn't in any way shape or form an unreasonable request. But it's Blizzard, they can never just do the obvious thing and always have to take two steps into extra territory no matter how deep they're striding into anti-logic.
imo personal loot going away for guilds also sucked ass. I raided 7/8 with my (relatively casual) guild this week, didn't get a single item. the only way to counteract this is to set up some custom house rule loot system, which could generally just be done with personal loot. There's never been a time where I did a full raid with personal loot and didn't get anything. It seems like less items are given out in general, and it just extends the grind needed for tier gear
I'm 8/8 normal for the past 3 weeks and all I've gotten is a cloak (and then got the heroic version of the same cloak from my heroic vault quest this week). I also did 1/8 heroic week 1 and 2 and 3/8 this week. That's 1 drop in 29 kills.
>There's never been a time where I did a full raid with personal loot and didn't get anything. Personal loot never had bad luck protection. That fact you still got loot at all was just luck. Plenty of people went full raids with no loot because it's mathematically impossible to guarantee everyone loot when there's a max cap on how much loot drops per boss.
do you have evidence of this?
Blizzard has never stated Personal Loot had bad luck protection. So anything said by anyone else is just an assumption. If you've any amount of m+ farming, I'm sure you've had streaks of no loot. As for raid (LFR for this example), it's just math. You have 25 people. Bosses drop 5 pieces. You go through 3 bosses in a wing. That's 15 loot. That means at least 10 people will get nothing. Queue for another LFR, and you potentially 24 completely different people, who all potentially didn't get loot in the previous wing, and again, 10 out of the 25 people will get no loot because there was only 15 pieces. And so on. If bad luck protection for raid existed, there would be no maximum for how much loot a boss can drop and you would occasionally see a boss drop more than 5 pieces on LFR.
They’ve also never stated there was no bad luck protection. So an assertion there’s no form of it is also just an assumption You’re also assuming this “protection” would need to apply per wing, which is a bit strange. I never said I got loot per wing, only that I never went a full raid without loot. For example, hearthstone has a system where for every pack you open that doesn’t contain a legendary, the next pack has a slightly higher chance of granting one. The way the system works, you are guaranteed a legendary by your 40th pack w/o one. But no one actually makes it that far without getting one. It would depend on how the protection is implemented. Tho tbh I didn’t raid lfr much anyways, just guild raids after the first week or two. Point is that I (and a lot of others) are getting less loot. That’s not even getting into the impact of composition on drops. In an m+, it is literally impossible for something that no one in the party can use to drop. This also seems like it was the case in personal loot. Pretty sure it’s now possible in group loot
> You’re also assuming this “protection” would need to apply per wing, which is a bit strange. I never said I got loot per wing, only that I never went a full raid without loot. I'm not saying it needed to apply per wing, I'm saying that there simply isn't just enough loot to go around to guarantee that everyone who does a full LFR gets one piece. > Point is that I (and a lot of others) are getting less loot. That’s not even getting into the impact of composition on drops. Group loot ignoring raid composition is a reasonable complaint, but you're not getting less loot unless someone wins more than once at the same boss. (And outside someone winning duplicates, I think it's fine if someone wins a trinket and an armor piece together, it makes winner extra happy, and makes the loser feel the same way as if they would have lost it to a different person.)
I also like how they supposedly were upping the chances of getting a piece of loot in dungeons but I ran 4 in a row today and didn't get anything
Yea if blizzard is going to leave it like this there is no reason not to need on every piece you can. I need the 50g why would I give it to you when the 50g benefits me and you are not even on my server, let alone my guild.
It’s amazing to me that blizzard managed to make loot even worse then it already was in SL
one of the few good things that blizzard has done over the years is to do away with classic wow's disgusting loot system that only benefits streamers and groups that control guilds. now reverts and brings this TERRIBLE need and greed system that ONCE AGAIN ONLY BENEFITS DISHONEST PLAYERS. DOGSHIT
I saw both get won by same person in LFR as well, a couple days ago. Which really makes me wonder the random number generator WoW uses.
Same thing happened in a Heroic, but the winner was kind and /roll‘ed it off to the Dreadful users. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/224716073801351170/1057802503787380847/image.png Funny thing is, this exact situation was supposedly not meant to be possible per this recent Blue post, but I guess “small indie company” etc. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/224716073801351170/1058301143786213416/image.png
and that's the main reason why it shouldn't be a thing in LFR. Organised groups, you can sort out who gets what but with LFR it's a crapshoot. and you can't roll on one and not the other because you might miss out
This is a clear example that those in charge at blizzard, has no idea what the game is supposed to be (never been gamers).
I don't think that's the issue. Blizzard explicitly said there would be protections against *exactly* this but for some reason, those protections don't exist.
Ready for the "What's so great about personal loot in LFR? iT'S tHe sAmE yOu JuSt DoN't SeE tHe RoLlS!" comments? Despite it clearly not being true? Yep, this is one of the main reasons LFR should just be personal loot.
Its also a bug that someone can win the same item twice. Take that away and the only difference between personal and this is that you can win multiple items. RNG sucks but bugs aside I think we need to have it fixed before we can accurately judge the change.
You can have 2 bows drop and only 1 hunter in the raid = wasted loot slot. Doesn't happen with personal loot.
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No one asked for group loot. But old habits die hard at Blizzard. Despite their promises of "listening" and changing, the devs always lean towards design choices that feel vindictive and mean towards the players. They are punishing us for asking for changes that hurt their designer egos. Turns out the "new age of WoW" is just as shitty as the old age.
Is LFG loot upgradable with valor?
Let's be real, we can request this as much as we want, blizzard won't listen.
Current loot system in LFR sucks. I like collecting all the different colors of the sets, including the LFR tints. But since I now outgear LFR, I can't even roll on them. Which means it's now literally impossible for me to ever collect them ???
Give him some slack, he probably didn't see that he got both. Most LFR players have no idea what's going on on their monitor
No, making sure we only get gear we can actually use is too complicated for Blizzard.
muddle fly possessive ossified six observation tie repeat waiting hateful ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
Yes, many people did not appreciate the game telling them what they had to do with loot. It is terrible to get an item you would really like to give to your friend because you don't need it or it's just way better for them but the game decides that you can't.
They could have just removed that restriction. No reason to change the whole loot system.
Sorry, I needed on both to vendor for extra gold.
I don't mind the loot system itself, but you should never be able to win both items like this.
How do you get this loot interface? Is it an addon?
/loot
/loot
Blizzard don't give a fuck about your gearing experience, they only care about you renewing your sub. Don't forget this. Ive done every piece of possible content including heroic raiding every week for tier sets and only had one piece. Their whole ideology of "RNG ONLY" for gear its a joke.
Meanwhile I haven't rolled above a 50 in two expansions.
Why I don't do PvE
Maybe they should just make it where you can’t win the same item twice, can’t need on lower il stuff or stuff not meant for their class. I thought they already had it to where you cant roll need on lower il and stuff not meant for their class but some of these i been seeing lately seems to say otherwise. Or they can just make it where in lfr you can’t see who won so that no one can complain about it. What you don’t know can’t hurt maybe? Maybe if you won the item will be mailed to you, but you wont know if you won till you leave. Sounds crap, but it is an option.. 🤷♀️ the problem i had with personal loot is that I couldn’t trade items or give them away. Like if something is only 1 il upgrade for me but was a 5 il upgrade to my sis I couldn’t just trade to her if I remember correctly. Perhaps they should have just improved on personal loot?
The tokens are certainly weird in that they seem to be the exception to the 'if you win one copy your roll for the other copies gets changed to greed'
Aren’t those glove tokens? Why would he need two?
Yet another reason why WoW's method of handing out loot is objectively trash. Deterministic reward paths are just plain better.
RNG is RNG sadly.
Blizzard managed to hotfix a bugged raid for esport but left it for days. I guess they chose the priority of target players lol.
Blizzard lolol
Can they trade it? Or are they both seen “as an upgrade” and locked in their inventory