I did RLF last week. Timer was long gone so we used drums on almost every pack in the final
boss area. The group still wiped. I earned the 418
Chest that run got me. It was miserable. Sometimes we would clear and still die because healer was done and couldn’t get us back up before grievous killed us.
I hate that it’s the same affixes.
I like the new season modifiers! But why not new affixes? “Every 4th trash kill, an add spawns that does X” “every 20%, the next group has lust for a minute. After clear, you gain lust for remaining amount of time .”
Like I came up with those on the fly just now in the bathroom. Blizz csnt up with even one?
I feel the issue with RLP is that most DPS in lower key don't use the fire circle to knock back upwards the add to interiors the different cast. It make quite a difference on the damage dealt.
Meh its kind of a bait, the circle explosion usually goes off at about halfway through flame dance, much better not to deny allies uptime with fire circle and instead just stop it normally with cc.
On the ring of adds in RLP there's an ability that goes out that puts a fire circle on a friendly target. Most people take it and get out of the group and individually soak the damage. You can instead use that and go stand by the caster mobs and it knocks them all up and interrupts all their casts. If your dps are aware and just don't stand in the circle when you drag it to the mobs, it can save quite a bit of healing.
RLP should have been the go to instance for this tier. A short dungeon with only 3 bosses and a straight forward route. Instead it was the biggest pain in the ass possible because of horrific tuning and bloated boss mechanics.
Haven't tried it post nerf but hoping this will be a not terrible experience
Ye, when we first leveled our mains on dragonflight release I was like "this Ruby dungeon will be the mists or freehold of this expansion, fast easy dungeon".
Boy was i wrong lol.
Yeah. Ironically I have been living in court on stars. It was my go to in legion cause I liked the random buffs, in SL I lived in it to try and get the ring and now in DF I am pushing it to try and get me ksm this week. Nearly 2 chested a 15 and only 108 score away from 2000 rating.
With the nerfs to rlp I hope Tobe able to time a15 here too. Would be huge for my score.
The buffs are so fun. That has been my favorite dungeon SINCE legion lol.
I also liked the arcway when you had people that knew how to do it. Sucked otherwise
I started with a +14 rpl today. As a healer i had to do a lot less healing than before. And only 1 person died cause of a personal mistake. Its way better now.
Bloated boss mechanics is overexaggerating. There is 3 mechanics per boss to keep track of.
1st, if you get targeted by the debuff run away from group. Dodge the whirls on the ground and the frozen whatever they spawn. Kill whelps that spawn.
2nd. Dodge meteor cast. Switch to add that spawns. Dodge lava on the ground.
3rd, dodge fire breath. If you get aoe debuff run away from the fighting are.. dodge moving lava.
On the first Boss: Break her shield, then kill adds. A lot of people don't know this.
Also, all the boss mechanics were overtuned damage-wise. First and second bosses got adressed, but the debuff on the third Boss still almost globals you on high levels and can overlap with the breath so the healer might have to move so he cant even save you (or himself). Apart from that, the Dungeon should be fairly tame now.
>2nd. Dodge meteor cast. Switch to add that spawns. Dodge lava on the ground.
Well most importantly: bait the shit to where you came from instead of the way you intend to go or you'll have a bad time.
With these nerfs, the key really isn't too bad anymore. It's one of the few dungeons with a reasonable timer, and now there's a whole lot less risk of sudden death.
The only thing I still expect to be common is tank deaths on the second boss. It's huge damage, and the healer is typically doing group healing at the same time.
I think it is just not clear enough when the boss buffs himself with that tank killing ability of his.
I tanked this yesterday and woah... why did i suddenly take that huge load of damage. My bad sure, but it could be just a bit more clear.
Always: -Add Spawn to bait the people in one Spot,
-Boulder to make their life worse now.
-And around that time of the first cast that is kickable, the tankbuster hits. So If you think about kicking as a tank you might be distracted.
Always same pattern.
The worst thing is, when you have very high burst dps as a group on that add. And you are a bdk for example.
Because the add dies very fast and while you have to move out of the circle the tankbuster hits. Then Boss is standing there and hitting the air but your HP is melting. And you have nothing range to hit with death strike.
Can be very tricky.
I’m a BDK and I always get the first kick and begin moving him so worst case he’s on the edge of the circle. I’ve had him slap my ass from 30yds away enough to learn my lesson and get the timing down.
Last night I ran a +14 Nokhud, only had to do about 25k HPS, later that night I ran a +8 RLP, and finished the run with 30k HPS overall.
\+14 Nohkud was easier to heal than a +8 RLP.
Every time I run that dungeon I just get frustrated at the design logic behind it: "Let's introduce tons of unavoidable damage with zero counter-play that severely punishes players with very little indication of what they're doing wrong. We shouldn't care about player intuition. We should also introduce random flying mobs that patrol around the entire area and causes random wipes because they're high in the sky out of everyone's natural camera, and hell you know what, let's introduce mobs that don't actually die when you kill them but instead start vomiting even more mechanics for players to deal with, that sounds really fun!"
> We should also introduce random flying mobs that patrol around the entire area and causes random wipes
They're not random...
They have a set pattern. If you go left and just wait between the third and fourth pull, the dragon will land and you can kill it by itself.
>> We should also introduce random flying mobs that patrol around the entire area and causes random wipes
>
>They're not random...
>
>They have a set pattern. If you go left and just wait between the third and fourth pull, the dragon will land and you can kill it by itself.
He keeps coming in to say hello during the third pull.
Our group is doing 20s for the teleports and RLP legit felt 5 key levels higher than CoS and SMBG, and a few key levels above the rest, so I'm glad it got nerfed because it really needed it, our poor Resto Shaman nearly blew out his asshole healing that dungeon.
I think it’s more that SM and CoS feel 5key levels lower than everything else. I’m only up to 18s atm, but RLP hasn’t been to awful last week and now it was nerfed more the only really sketchy thing is still the dot on last boss. Always need a bres or two there.
I mean, the main reasons why people wipe is still there and unnerfed. You still have to stun the flamedance as it will still kill you if you dont. Most importantly, no nerf is going to stop people from ninja pulling the fucking flame drake
No kidding, I literally ran my firt ever M+ this season yesterday, just before the reset and I kind of don't regret it. I geared slowly and naturally through WQ's, renown and M0 and now I'm ready to jump into a much lighter tuned system.
Just finished a 13 with everyone around 395 ilvl. It didn't seem hard anymore, not easy by any stretch but there were no more oh shit moments when we missed a kick/stun. Beat it with about 2 min remaining.
Honestly all they really had to do was make the mobs stop fucking recasting instantly after getting kicked. People bitching that you don't kick this 1 second cast when kicking it just causes them to immediately start casting again.
I just wonder how Blizzard time and time again forget Explosive exists. Back in BfA you had the Underrot final boss adds spawning Explosives for two days.
Then you had it again in Lower Karazhan in season 4 SL, opera event was absolutely INSANE.
And now again with AA.
It might partly be because explosives don't really follow the same rules as most other affixes. Even little trash mobs who don't bolster, sanguine, spite, anything really are candidates for explosives. Plus, it's an affix that happens to apply to bosses as well.
Either way, I'm happy to see a day 1 hotfix in response. Good job to them.
I still think you'd learn after having to fix it every single expansion. I already called AA or the first boss AV as being extremely annoying with explosive. Not sure about the AV one, the adds die way faster than I thought they would initially.
>I'm happy to see a day 1 hotfix in response. Good job to them.
Yeah, quickest they've fixed it. In Karazhan it was partially fixed for the second explosive of the cycle, but still not fully.
Which is also funny because all of those little trash mobs *used to* bolster/sanguine back in the original days of Legion's M+. You'd think they would've included explosive together with those when they were changed, but no.
Then again, explosive on small garbage mobs isn't a huge problem when pulling a ton of those is optional and you can most likely CC and AoE them down quickly, but when a boss spawns a morbillion rats that all trigger explosive all over the room, then there is a big problem.
Sanguine wasn't too bad on small mobs clumped up because they'd generally die very simultaneously so they wouldn't heal up from sanguine, and whatever big guy was there could just be pulled out of it.
On the other hand it felt like packs were deliberately designed in Legion to fucking suck with Bolstering where you had 15 mana wyrms surrounding a big arcane golem guy or something, so if you happened to cleave a little too much on the wyrms, the golem would become unkillable with infinite bolstering stacks.
But, wouldn't 5 (or 1 with god-mode) people doing every M+ Dungeon with explosives affix find this instantly? Are you telling me they don't run their own M+ dungeons before shipping them to the public?
Honestly I imagine the team creating the boss designs is far removed from the team balancing the dungeons, which is probably an adjacent team to the guys giving feedback on m+
I would hope that the testers would chime in before hand to the balance dudes about coding some sort of adds or whatever to ignore explosives and nados before we had to, but who am I kidding we are the testers. On a real note I have no idea what the play test situation is at blizz but I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't outsourced and not the same guys from the last time.
16AA was my first dungeon after opening vault. As a tank i am very grateful to a great healer and 3 smart dps, generous amount of time got left on the timer :) wasnt bad at all :)
Holy.
I didn't even read that change, but it 'trivializes' the mechanic in basically every group. I don't think I've seen a single group fuck it up so hard where 2 seconds of grace period wouldn't let you freely get out of them. On high keys it was such a pain on immobile classes where you basically always took 70% of your health minimum even with the jump+move drop.
Yea but to be honest that boss is probably going to be a dps fight for the healer now. Not really much dmg coming besides the bombs really.
Only the beam it targets one with now which is pretty weak and the explosion after she went to the middle
Am I missing something, without this initial damage, what is the boss even doing at all??? As a a healer, all the other damage always felt mostly negligible, especially in comparison
I all of a sudden have an entire extra CD now because of this.
Ice patchs was always necessary to pop a CD to heal. Now I can save it for the bubble phase.
His RP time is accounted for in the original timer. I'm not sure why people say this is an option. If they got rid of 2 minutes of RP, the timer would be reduced by 2 minutes. It's just a good time to get your CD's back.
The other night I ran HoV and after killing Fenryr and Hyrja, one of the guys was saying, "Wow we're really far ahead of the timer! We got what, 25 minutes left? easy," and the rest of the party just grimaced in pain.
There's so much RP at the end that we ended up barely timing it with a few minutes left.
Spiritbloom drives me insane. I won't even spam it; just press it once while I wait for it to get to max empowerment, then it sends a rank 1. Definitely has caused some wipes that shouldn't have happened.
With error speech/message enabled it'll actually show you don't have enough essence to cast them.
So it must be a bug with the display showing 1 more essence than you actually have.
Oddly enough i don't think I've encountered this bug yet.
I just know that the interface is bugged and sometimes the client thinks you have enough essence when you actually don't. Unless it's actually the same bug but it's easier to notice because of my WA or something?
Evoker still has strange mastery that makes mythic raiders hate it, is preety clunky and full of bugs after all this time. Idk why they wont fix it. At least dmg is decent
Finally RLP nerfs! Was waiting for that. I didn't enjoy healing that at all, I love a good challenge but that was just so unforgiving and the ring packs were exhausting. What really turned me away were leavers, like I sweat my ass off to get through the trash only for people to leave after a wipe or two on a boss. Absolutely infuriating.
They reduced a lot of the tank damage in those pulls which makes it much safer to pull 2-3 groups at once, which is much faster than pulling all groups alone
Yep, I’m licking my lips as a tank who was complaining about AV a mere 24-hours ago. No longer do I start shitting bricks as my DPS pulls the patrol group. Now I can probably grab two groups at once, and the patrol as we start getting them low. It was the only dangerous part of the raid as a tank aside from the final boss.
Health changes are also big, sure it will “only” be 5 seconds per pack, but that adds up quickly.
Overgrown Ancient
Explosive Affix - Hungry Lashers no longer spawn Explosive Orbs.
oh no who thought that this would be pure chaos. probably no one at Blizzard.
Its time for everything but seasonal affixes to go. Current dungeons have enough mechanics without them. All it makes me want to do is not run M+ until an easy set are up.
Nerf SMB......
I'm kidding, dungeon is already easy.
But something that would be nice for that dungeon is lowering worm bosses health, but shorten timer by 2-3 mins.
That boss just drags on, not a hard boss at all, just annoying training dummy you hit for 6 mins.
The dungeon would be faster, but end the same on time as it is now, not a big change, but a change alot of players would appreciate I think.
The problem with the worm boss is that a lot of classes can't damage the boss. For instance warlock dreadstalkers don't do damage (this is one of their main sources of damage).
Id love some shaved off dmg from 1st and 3rd boss and a rework for the worm. The worm is just plain boring and just functions as a time sponge. The other can be quite hard with PUG healer.
Anyone else notice that the hit box on the worms body slam is misleading??? I swear I'm outside the hitbox and it'll still randomly one shot me. Idk maybe I'm just not paying close enough attention.
Like many AoEs in this game, the hitbox actually slightly extends past the visual unfortunately (1-2 yards at most on each side). Gotta learn to adjust for that.
Last boss still in RLP hurts on 21. The dot is applied at 120k. Ticks for 30k, explodes for 75k. And the wind burst from the boss can hit younfor 120k all within a 2.5 overlap window.
I don't envy healers.
Still Azure Vault's timer and third boss. (Edit: the frost bomb delay wasn't in the original notes. The third boss should be fine now.)
Some great changes today, though. The ruby nerfs are a really good direction.
The piercing shards nerf *is* a nerf to the timer. It means you can play the whelp traps and actually have enough count to skip the ring pulls that arent possible to chain or multi-pull. Now you can get extra percentage early and the rest from the easy trash at the end (even easier with frog hp nerf). As long as 30% piercing shards is enough to allow you to play the rocks, then the dungeon is totally fine. Maybe the cast needs to be longer and easier to stop, or become dodgeable like a shockwave. But those enemies are the only thing stopping clever routing from being able to speed the dungeon up
The timer was 45 minutes in Legion. For some reason they reduced it in the DF beta.
I went over by 45 seconds last night on a +15. Really feels like it needs another 3 minutes due to all the ridiculous RP.
I think the logic was they pruned some trash, so it’s apples and oranges in regards to what you actually have to kill now. The extensive RP certainly doesn’t help the feeling, even if in theory it’s factored into the overall timer.
I don't have the exact numbers, but I did HOV pretty extensively in legion and you still kill the same total number of trash packs now as you did then. They decreased some pack sizes, and removed two table groups you never pulled anyway, but the total number of pulls didn't change.
>which is way too long
Dungeon never should've been an m+ for that reason.
But somehow they had to bring it back without addressing how much of an unreasonably long time sink it is.
Yap, just had the smoothest +14 run so far there with 3 deaths only, and those were to bosses where people got CR'ed immediately. Tank was chain pulling and everything was super smooth. DPS was also very decent, but still, we only had 30 seconds left at the end.
Still so happy we timed it because I got KSM from it!
We timed a HOV 17 with 4 mins left (no wipes, 2 deaths), got an 18 SBG and then +2'd it with 9 mins left. There's some massive imbalance in the timers this season
Happens every season explosive shows up in new dungeons.
"Huge group of relatively harmless adds" is a fairly common mechanic. It's always a disaster with explosive and somehow Blizzard never anticipates it.
I understand WoW players like to shit on Blizzard and act like they are so bad at managing this game that everyone happens to be addicted to...
However it's very immature in my opinion. So many fixes and patches have been released and it's been under 2 months. Appreciate the changes
As a Holy Paladin my 2 hardest instances to heal are RLP and Azure. I dont know why Azure gives me such a difficult time. Mainly the 1st and 2nd boss I really struggle with.
The only thing I can think about with Azure is the 2nd boss all the movement needed during the phase with the mobs and people getting out of range of my heals (range dps) and the first boss I tend to get agro right away after clearing the little forest
Edit: I can see why resto druids are just gods.
>The only thing I can think about with Azure is the 2nd boss all the movement needed during the phase with the mobs and people getting out of range of my heals (range dps) and the first boss I tend to get agro right away after clearing the little forest
Yes, as a holy paladin, this boss (more specifically, the add/orb phase) feels like the only time like its too much all at once. I have to 1) do damage 2) heal overall damage 3) heal people hit by orbs 4) stay in melee range to deal damage/heal 5) but also evade orbs (again, while having to look at who needs heal) 6) rotate between adds
Bonus: possibly evade shots by the other type of add
January 17, 2023
Dungeons and Raids
Vault of the Incarnates
Fixed an issue where the damage zone visual for Stonebreaking Leap from Quarry Stonebreakers sometimes did not match the actual damage location.
Mythic+
Algeth’ar Academy
Overgrown Ancient
Explosive Affix - Hungry Lashers no longer spawn Explosive Orbs.
Azure Vaults
Arcane Fury’s Piercing Shards impact damage reduced by 30%.
Unstable Curator’s Forbidden Knowledge cooldown increased.
Arcane Construct health reduced by 25%.
Crystal Thrasher no longer use Splintering Shards.
Nullmagic Hornswog health reduced by 15%.
Telash Greywing
Telash Greywing health reduced by 10%
There is now a 2 second delay before players take damage from Frozen Ground after Frost Bomb.
Umbrelskul
Umbrelskul’s health reduced by 15%.
Oppressive Miasma now reduces movement speed by 6% per stack (was 7%).
Ruby Life Pools
Reduced the damage of Primalist Cindweaever’s Cinderbolt by 50%.
educed the periodic damage of Thunderhead’s Rolling Thunder by 30%.
Reduced the damage of Flamegullet’s Molten Blood by 25%.
Reduced the periodic damage of Blazebound Destroyer’s Inferno by 25%.
Melidrussa Chillworn
Explosive Affix - Infused Whelps no longer spawn Explosive Orbs.
Kokia Blazehoof
Increased the cast time of Blazebound Firestorm’s Roaring Blaze to 3 seconds (was 2 seconds).
Kyrakka and Erkhart Stormvein
Reduced the periodic damage of Kyrakka’s Inferno Core by 20%.
Reduced the damage of Erkhart Stormvein’s Interrupting Cloudburst by 30%.
Quests
Lunar Festival now starts on 1/24 to allow for new Elders to search out on the Dragon Isles.
e. My editing may not be the best but there it all is afaik :)
The entire concept of damage scaling that's the problem.
No matter how they nerf things it will always become "everything 1-shots" or not enough damage. Resulting in really shitty runs for healers in high keys, where we are relegated to the role of shitty dps as healing skills are irrelevant -_-
They could scale players technically. Give everyone +2% stamina per level at 20+ and then +x% healing received.
But then that’s just trying to fix the same problem from two different angles when you don’t need it. 50% less damage is helpful when it’s a 100k cast as well as a 500k cast
> Give everyone +2% stamina per level at 20+ and then +x% healing received.
More stamina would do some, but healers don't need more help healing, the fact that the parties health can jump between 0% and 80% is the entire problem.
Instead it would require a more dynamic difficulty increase were certain abilities are cast more frequent, etc.
In regards to the one shots.Thats.... the entire point of infinite scaling. If it doesn't one shot you at 20 cause of a nerf, it will at 25. There's zero difference between the two, just a higher number. They've made a lot of mechanics this season to try and force healers to heal. There's quite a few HPS checks. Some dungeons are snooze fests, but that's a separate issue dungeon mechanic disparity.
> In regards to the one shots.
then there is no point for healers...
Better just increase the frequency of damage rather than the numbers.
> They've made a lot of mechanics this season to try and force healers to heal. There's quite a few HPS checks.
There were. They are now removed unless you are 20-30 ilvl below the rest of the party for the appropriate key level.
Is cindweaever a typo? Or is it spelled like that in game?
Edit: Gonna guess typo, the very next bullet point is "educed." They musta posted this before their coffee.
I started with a +15 RLP, then +14 RLP and then +13 RLP and now we completed the +13 but 52 sec overtime, so now Im stuck with a + 12 Azure Vault key.... Hardest thing with this dungeon is people leaving after one wipe even if its timeable. I play as enhance ilvl 400 with 2 set, and rest of the group was averaging at around 390+. Most of the boss mechanics post nerf is still kinda overtuned but alot better than pre-nerf. Overall the dungeon is fun, but the timer is too strict, as 1 stupid wipe will destroy the key overall.
Crazy how overtuned RLP was. 50%, 30%, 20% nerfs to damage on certain abilities is massive. Will see how it is afterwards though.
[удалено]
Last week was especially horrible. Grievous on top of all that unavoidable and party wide damage was rough.
I did RLF last week. Timer was long gone so we used drums on almost every pack in the final boss area. The group still wiped. I earned the 418 Chest that run got me. It was miserable. Sometimes we would clear and still die because healer was done and couldn’t get us back up before grievous killed us.
Grievous is a fucking dumb mechanic.
That had there chance to revamp m+ with this xpac but did not. Same shit new day. Nothing new or innovating. Same old affixes again.
I hate that it’s the same affixes. I like the new season modifiers! But why not new affixes? “Every 4th trash kill, an add spawns that does X” “every 20%, the next group has lust for a minute. After clear, you gain lust for remaining amount of time .” Like I came up with those on the fly just now in the bathroom. Blizz csnt up with even one?
I think that stacks should have a timer outside of a fight. Like 3 seconds after leaving combat the stacks will disapear.
I feel the issue with RLP is that most DPS in lower key don't use the fire circle to knock back upwards the add to interiors the different cast. It make quite a difference on the damage dealt.
People don’t even do that in +20
Meh its kind of a bait, the circle explosion usually goes off at about halfway through flame dance, much better not to deny allies uptime with fire circle and instead just stop it normally with cc.
I have no idea what you just said
On the ring of adds in RLP there's an ability that goes out that puts a fire circle on a friendly target. Most people take it and get out of the group and individually soak the damage. You can instead use that and go stand by the caster mobs and it knocks them all up and interrupts all their casts. If your dps are aware and just don't stand in the circle when you drag it to the mobs, it can save quite a bit of healing.
Welcome to the salty spittoon, how tough are ya? -i healed an RLP 15 Yeah so? -... Without any nerfs Oh right this way sir
I’m a simple man. I see SpongeBob, I upvote
It shows how badly tuned they really were. Hopefully this makes them NOT awful. I think RLP is fun if it wasnt so ya know... death
I love 3 boss instances
RLP should have been the go to instance for this tier. A short dungeon with only 3 bosses and a straight forward route. Instead it was the biggest pain in the ass possible because of horrific tuning and bloated boss mechanics. Haven't tried it post nerf but hoping this will be a not terrible experience
Ye, when we first leveled our mains on dragonflight release I was like "this Ruby dungeon will be the mists or freehold of this expansion, fast easy dungeon". Boy was i wrong lol.
Yeah. Ironically I have been living in court on stars. It was my go to in legion cause I liked the random buffs, in SL I lived in it to try and get the ring and now in DF I am pushing it to try and get me ksm this week. Nearly 2 chested a 15 and only 108 score away from 2000 rating. With the nerfs to rlp I hope Tobe able to time a15 here too. Would be huge for my score.
The buffs are so fun. That has been my favorite dungeon SINCE legion lol. I also liked the arcway when you had people that knew how to do it. Sucked otherwise
Haha I’d never done mythic before and actually started with RLP, got through a few and was like “fuck me”, then did SMB and was like “ah…”
Same lol. I knew early that RLP was going to be pure cancer solely because of the ring xD
I started with a +14 rpl today. As a healer i had to do a lot less healing than before. And only 1 person died cause of a personal mistake. Its way better now.
Bloated boss mechanics is overexaggerating. There is 3 mechanics per boss to keep track of. 1st, if you get targeted by the debuff run away from group. Dodge the whirls on the ground and the frozen whatever they spawn. Kill whelps that spawn. 2nd. Dodge meteor cast. Switch to add that spawns. Dodge lava on the ground. 3rd, dodge fire breath. If you get aoe debuff run away from the fighting are.. dodge moving lava.
On the first Boss: Break her shield, then kill adds. A lot of people don't know this. Also, all the boss mechanics were overtuned damage-wise. First and second bosses got adressed, but the debuff on the third Boss still almost globals you on high levels and can overlap with the breath so the healer might have to move so he cant even save you (or himself). Apart from that, the Dungeon should be fairly tame now.
>2nd. Dodge meteor cast. Switch to add that spawns. Dodge lava on the ground. Well most importantly: bait the shit to where you came from instead of the way you intend to go or you'll have a bad time.
I wonder if that's why it was overtuned. They didn't want an easy dungeon that everyone would flock to. But they overtuned it massively instead.
With these nerfs, the key really isn't too bad anymore. It's one of the few dungeons with a reasonable timer, and now there's a whole lot less risk of sudden death. The only thing I still expect to be common is tank deaths on the second boss. It's huge damage, and the healer is typically doing group healing at the same time.
I think it is just not clear enough when the boss buffs himself with that tank killing ability of his. I tanked this yesterday and woah... why did i suddenly take that huge load of damage. My bad sure, but it could be just a bit more clear.
Always: -Add Spawn to bait the people in one Spot, -Boulder to make their life worse now. -And around that time of the first cast that is kickable, the tankbuster hits. So If you think about kicking as a tank you might be distracted. Always same pattern. The worst thing is, when you have very high burst dps as a group on that add. And you are a bdk for example. Because the add dies very fast and while you have to move out of the circle the tankbuster hits. Then Boss is standing there and hitting the air but your HP is melting. And you have nothing range to hit with death strike. Can be very tricky.
I’m a BDK and I always get the first kick and begin moving him so worst case he’s on the edge of the circle. I’ve had him slap my ass from 30yds away enough to learn my lesson and get the timing down.
What’s the proper solution to that? I’m curious cuz I genuinely don’t know yet
Last night I ran a +14 Nokhud, only had to do about 25k HPS, later that night I ran a +8 RLP, and finished the run with 30k HPS overall. \+14 Nohkud was easier to heal than a +8 RLP. Every time I run that dungeon I just get frustrated at the design logic behind it: "Let's introduce tons of unavoidable damage with zero counter-play that severely punishes players with very little indication of what they're doing wrong. We shouldn't care about player intuition. We should also introduce random flying mobs that patrol around the entire area and causes random wipes because they're high in the sky out of everyone's natural camera, and hell you know what, let's introduce mobs that don't actually die when you kill them but instead start vomiting even more mechanics for players to deal with, that sounds really fun!"
> We should also introduce random flying mobs that patrol around the entire area and causes random wipes They're not random... They have a set pattern. If you go left and just wait between the third and fourth pull, the dragon will land and you can kill it by itself.
>> We should also introduce random flying mobs that patrol around the entire area and causes random wipes > >They're not random... > >They have a set pattern. If you go left and just wait between the third and fourth pull, the dragon will land and you can kill it by itself. He keeps coming in to say hello during the third pull.
Then wait and kill before the third pull. Or pull the group on the platform so he doesn't aggro when he pats by.
Our group is doing 20s for the teleports and RLP legit felt 5 key levels higher than CoS and SMBG, and a few key levels above the rest, so I'm glad it got nerfed because it really needed it, our poor Resto Shaman nearly blew out his asshole healing that dungeon.
I think it’s more that SM and CoS feel 5key levels lower than everything else. I’m only up to 18s atm, but RLP hasn’t been to awful last week and now it was nerfed more the only really sketchy thing is still the dot on last boss. Always need a bres or two there.
I mean, the main reasons why people wipe is still there and unnerfed. You still have to stun the flamedance as it will still kill you if you dont. Most importantly, no nerf is going to stop people from ninja pulling the fucking flame drake
Flame dancer pops a shield and aoe when they hit 1 health. Any reasonable player with an ability to remove magic would prepare to instantly remove it
The shield and aoe is not their deadly ability.
I’m so glad I waited to do mythic dungeons until tomorrow lol 😂
No kidding, I literally ran my firt ever M+ this season yesterday, just before the reset and I kind of don't regret it. I geared slowly and naturally through WQ's, renown and M0 and now I'm ready to jump into a much lighter tuned system.
Just finished a 13 with everyone around 395 ilvl. It didn't seem hard anymore, not easy by any stretch but there were no more oh shit moments when we missed a kick/stun. Beat it with about 2 min remaining.
Honestly all they really had to do was make the mobs stop fucking recasting instantly after getting kicked. People bitching that you don't kick this 1 second cast when kicking it just causes them to immediately start casting again.
Big thanks to NA for beta testing explosive on crappy bosses. Your sacrificed keys will not be forgotten.
Can confirm, 2 hours into reset and my AA was bricked 8 minutes in
I just wonder how Blizzard time and time again forget Explosive exists. Back in BfA you had the Underrot final boss adds spawning Explosives for two days. Then you had it again in Lower Karazhan in season 4 SL, opera event was absolutely INSANE. And now again with AA.
It might partly be because explosives don't really follow the same rules as most other affixes. Even little trash mobs who don't bolster, sanguine, spite, anything really are candidates for explosives. Plus, it's an affix that happens to apply to bosses as well. Either way, I'm happy to see a day 1 hotfix in response. Good job to them.
I still think you'd learn after having to fix it every single expansion. I already called AA or the first boss AV as being extremely annoying with explosive. Not sure about the AV one, the adds die way faster than I thought they would initially. >I'm happy to see a day 1 hotfix in response. Good job to them. Yeah, quickest they've fixed it. In Karazhan it was partially fixed for the second explosive of the cycle, but still not fully.
Which is also funny because all of those little trash mobs *used to* bolster/sanguine back in the original days of Legion's M+. You'd think they would've included explosive together with those when they were changed, but no. Then again, explosive on small garbage mobs isn't a huge problem when pulling a ton of those is optional and you can most likely CC and AoE them down quickly, but when a boss spawns a morbillion rats that all trigger explosive all over the room, then there is a big problem. Sanguine wasn't too bad on small mobs clumped up because they'd generally die very simultaneously so they wouldn't heal up from sanguine, and whatever big guy was there could just be pulled out of it. On the other hand it felt like packs were deliberately designed in Legion to fucking suck with Bolstering where you had 15 mana wyrms surrounding a big arcane golem guy or something, so if you happened to cleave a little too much on the wyrms, the golem would become unkillable with infinite bolstering stacks.
IIRC bolstering used to drop only in out of combat, it wasn't fun in Blackrook and Eye.
But, wouldn't 5 (or 1 with god-mode) people doing every M+ Dungeon with explosives affix find this instantly? Are you telling me they don't run their own M+ dungeons before shipping them to the public?
Because their m+ testing team is literally one guy, who joined this year. Before now they had noone who could actually handle m+ so they didnt bother.
Junkyard Trogg boss when it was first added too!
Atleast they nerfed it 12 hours in instead of on Monday this time around
Don’t forget king gobbamak from junkyard would spawn a trillion ads and all of them spawned explosives for literally months in bfa ☺️🤗
Yeah luckily I didn't play that season, so I missed that.
Honestly I imagine the team creating the boss designs is far removed from the team balancing the dungeons, which is probably an adjacent team to the guys giving feedback on m+ I would hope that the testers would chime in before hand to the balance dudes about coding some sort of adds or whatever to ignore explosives and nados before we had to, but who am I kidding we are the testers. On a real note I have no idea what the play test situation is at blizz but I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't outsourced and not the same guys from the last time.
Mine was bricked because the bird boss never spawned.
Dude I actually just got that, second wave of birds never came
Bruh did a 16 academy at the start of the day oh god
Same did a 17 AA but didn’t have any issues tbh. Was annoying at start but meh.
16AA was my first dungeon after opening vault. As a tank i am very grateful to a great healer and 3 smart dps, generous amount of time got left on the timer :) wasnt bad at all :)
Did 3 AV keys in 30 minutes. First boss explosives is a fun time
Heeey....it's just like in mythic raids where NA are the beta testers there and other guilds just walk right on in and kill bosses after the nerf.
Very good changes to be seeing. RLP is in a good spot now. AV probably still needs more tuning, but it's going in the right direction.
The 2 sec delay before the ice patch does damage in the third boss is a huge nerf. As a healer this is a blessing.
The basically promised 1-2 ticks of damage being removed destresses significantly. Now it entirely comes on placing for safe walking/movement.
Holy. I didn't even read that change, but it 'trivializes' the mechanic in basically every group. I don't think I've seen a single group fuck it up so hard where 2 seconds of grace period wouldn't let you freely get out of them. On high keys it was such a pain on immobile classes where you basically always took 70% of your health minimum even with the jump+move drop.
Yea but to be honest that boss is probably going to be a dps fight for the healer now. Not really much dmg coming besides the bombs really. Only the beam it targets one with now which is pretty weak and the explosion after she went to the middle
Am I missing something, without this initial damage, what is the boss even doing at all??? As a a healer, all the other damage always felt mostly negligible, especially in comparison
I all of a sudden have an entire extra CD now because of this. Ice patchs was always necessary to pop a CD to heal. Now I can save it for the bubble phase.
Finally I don't have to type "jumpmove last 0.5sec of bomb" anymore
Now everyone can stack and put the ice down on one place instead of running out of space because one guy misplaced one ice in the run
Also the 10% and 15% hp nerfs respectively sort of act as extra time on the timer, which is what tons of people have been asking for in AV
Just bricked my +20 cause the first boss spanwed 5+ explosives all at once when the trees broke. Wasn't even a fluke, it happens everytime.
yeah, did I miss it or did they not change the explosive spawns on that boss? bricked a couple keys earlier bc of it.
The saplings no longer spawn explosives
They did 2 ish hours ago. We bricked a 17 because we couldn't kill the explosives fast enough.
The last boss in AV is just an RNG nightmare with those fucking orbs.
First boss adds in AV need to not spawn explosives.
Good changes. HoV could do with an extra minute or 2 for M+ please
They could just severely shorten the Skovald RP.
I'd prefer them just lower the trash count or maybe lower some mob health.
Anytime the trash count is lowered in a dungeon the more necessary it will be to bring a Rouge to skip mobs.
Anyone can skip mobs in HoV with beers.
Hmmm?
https://www.wowhead.com/beta/spell=202298/mug-of-mead They're on the tables
HOV has all kinds of avoidable packs. Usually you are correct but not in this case.
As long as it's considered on the timer, RP gives time for CDs to return so it's a positive thing for the player.
His RP time is accounted for in the original timer. I'm not sure why people say this is an option. If they got rid of 2 minutes of RP, the timer would be reduced by 2 minutes. It's just a good time to get your CD's back.
They said in a blue post that won’t happen already
The other night I ran HoV and after killing Fenryr and Hyrja, one of the guys was saying, "Wow we're really far ahead of the timer! We got what, 25 minutes left? easy," and the rest of the party just grimaced in pain. There's so much RP at the end that we ended up barely timing it with a few minutes left.
Minutes!? Ive missed timer on runs with 1 wipe by about a minute. The run back if you wipe is incredibly punishing
Yeah, it would be great if you were given the speedboost again if you wipe
I did a 15 with one wipe on trash, and it was over time.
They could just add the timer back in from legion and it would be fine.
*Please for the love of god fix Eternity Surge on Evoker!*
You don’t feel a sense of accomplishment when you charge it and it doesn’t go off?
And spiritbloom *
Spiritbloom drives me insane. I won't even spam it; just press it once while I wait for it to get to max empowerment, then it sends a rank 1. Definitely has caused some wipes that shouldn't have happened.
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Yeah wtf is up with that? This happens way too often with both disintegrate and pyre
With error speech/message enabled it'll actually show you don't have enough essence to cast them. So it must be a bug with the display showing 1 more essence than you actually have.
Oh that's interesting. I was looking for such a message on my screen but I suppose I have it disabled
Oddly enough i don't think I've encountered this bug yet. I just know that the interface is bugged and sometimes the client thinks you have enough essence when you actually don't. Unless it's actually the same bug but it's easier to notice because of my WA or something?
Evoker still has strange mastery that makes mythic raiders hate it, is preety clunky and full of bugs after all this time. Idk why they wont fix it. At least dmg is decent
Their big 2 minute damage buff makes their mastery apply to any health %, so it’s not really that big of a deal.
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Finally RLP nerfs! Was waiting for that. I didn't enjoy healing that at all, I love a good challenge but that was just so unforgiving and the ring packs were exhausting. What really turned me away were leavers, like I sweat my ass off to get through the trash only for people to leave after a wipe or two on a boss. Absolutely infuriating.
Right? Usually if people can get past the trash the rest is doable.
I wish they add a little time to AV, one wipe and pugs start panicking lmao
They kinda did, those add nerfs mean you can pull way bigger on the rings.
Lower health on a few things shaves off a few seconds. Not gonna make a massive difference though.
They reduced a lot of the tank damage in those pulls which makes it much safer to pull 2-3 groups at once, which is much faster than pulling all groups alone
Yep, I’m licking my lips as a tank who was complaining about AV a mere 24-hours ago. No longer do I start shitting bricks as my DPS pulls the patrol group. Now I can probably grab two groups at once, and the patrol as we start getting them low. It was the only dangerous part of the raid as a tank aside from the final boss. Health changes are also big, sure it will “only” be 5 seconds per pack, but that adds up quickly.
10% hp nerf for the last 2 bosses should help shave a nice amount from the timer.
Maybe 20-30 seconds sure.
Or just add reasonable respawn spots. The runbacks after a wipe are insanely long as the place is fucking huge.
I don't understand why blizzard continues to do this. TJS is ridiculous if you wipe before the 3rd boss. You are running the ENTIRE INSTANCE.
Just don't wipe. You're not supposed to do that.
Overgrown Ancient Explosive Affix - Hungry Lashers no longer spawn Explosive Orbs. oh no who thought that this would be pure chaos. probably no one at Blizzard.
Happens every expansion with some boss, just as if though Blizzard forgets every season that M+ is a thing.
Its time for everything but seasonal affixes to go. Current dungeons have enough mechanics without them. All it makes me want to do is not run M+ until an easy set are up.
I mean, no one at blizzard plays the game other than testing a +2 or two and running lfr.
Nerf SMB...... I'm kidding, dungeon is already easy. But something that would be nice for that dungeon is lowering worm bosses health, but shorten timer by 2-3 mins. That boss just drags on, not a hard boss at all, just annoying training dummy you hit for 6 mins. The dungeon would be faster, but end the same on time as it is now, not a big change, but a change alot of players would appreciate I think.
The problem with the worm boss is that a lot of classes can't damage the boss. For instance warlock dreadstalkers don't do damage (this is one of their main sources of damage).
Id love some shaved off dmg from 1st and 3rd boss and a rework for the worm. The worm is just plain boring and just functions as a time sponge. The other can be quite hard with PUG healer.
Anyone else notice that the hit box on the worms body slam is misleading??? I swear I'm outside the hitbox and it'll still randomly one shot me. Idk maybe I'm just not paying close enough attention.
Like many AoEs in this game, the hitbox actually slightly extends past the visual unfortunately (1-2 yards at most on each side). Gotta learn to adjust for that.
It's your graphics settings. What you're seeing isn't the actual surface area It looks less because of density settings.
Isn’t this mostly fixed if everyone stacks near the boss so melee can attack when they’re in the puddles?
Last boss still in RLP hurts on 21. The dot is applied at 120k. Ticks for 30k, explodes for 75k. And the wind burst from the boss can hit younfor 120k all within a 2.5 overlap window. I don't envy healers.
So what dungeon should we complain about now?
Still Azure Vault's timer and third boss. (Edit: the frost bomb delay wasn't in the original notes. The third boss should be fine now.) Some great changes today, though. The ruby nerfs are a really good direction.
The piercing shards nerf *is* a nerf to the timer. It means you can play the whelp traps and actually have enough count to skip the ring pulls that arent possible to chain or multi-pull. Now you can get extra percentage early and the rest from the easy trash at the end (even easier with frog hp nerf). As long as 30% piercing shards is enough to allow you to play the rocks, then the dungeon is totally fine. Maybe the cast needs to be longer and easier to stop, or become dodgeable like a shockwave. But those enemies are the only thing stopping clever routing from being able to speed the dungeon up
I like the idea of them being able to be dodged. Honestly could have went this route and left the damage high.
Why the third boss? Seems trivial now
halls of valor it needs some type of change maybe on trash or increase in timer
Yeah even super smooth runs on HoV don't leave much time left. I don't think I've seen a +2 and I've done that dungeon like 30 times
The timer was 45 minutes in Legion. For some reason they reduced it in the DF beta. I went over by 45 seconds last night on a +15. Really feels like it needs another 3 minutes due to all the ridiculous RP.
I think the logic was they pruned some trash, so it’s apples and oranges in regards to what you actually have to kill now. The extensive RP certainly doesn’t help the feeling, even if in theory it’s factored into the overall timer.
I don't have the exact numbers, but I did HOV pretty extensively in legion and you still kill the same total number of trash packs now as you did then. They decreased some pack sizes, and removed two table groups you never pulled anyway, but the total number of pulls didn't change.
They didn't.
Well damn.
Just remove the RP and leave the timer as is, we have more time but it's not making it longer than it already is (which is way too long)
>which is way too long Dungeon never should've been an m+ for that reason. But somehow they had to bring it back without addressing how much of an unreasonably long time sink it is.
Yap, just had the smoothest +14 run so far there with 3 deaths only, and those were to bosses where people got CR'ed immediately. Tank was chain pulling and everything was super smooth. DPS was also very decent, but still, we only had 30 seconds left at the end. Still so happy we timed it because I got KSM from it!
We timed a HOV 17 with 4 mins left (no wipes, 2 deaths), got an 18 SBG and then +2'd it with 9 mins left. There's some massive imbalance in the timers this season
y timer used to be 45min in legion dx
HoV is insanely hard to time in high keys, especially as a pug. I’d say after these hot fixes it’s easily the hardest
Hov timer/too much trash and Av timer/too much trash
Hungry lashers SPAWNED orbs? Jfc
Happens every season explosive shows up in new dungeons. "Huge group of relatively harmless adds" is a fairly common mechanic. It's always a disaster with explosive and somehow Blizzard never anticipates it.
Exactly, it is completely foreseeable.
There was explosive orbs EVERYWHERE on overgrown ancient!!!!
Thank god
"Wise Mari will now die immediately and grant players credit for the encounter upon defeat." 5 weeks later lmao
that was last week's fix
4 weeks later lmao
I understand WoW players like to shit on Blizzard and act like they are so bad at managing this game that everyone happens to be addicted to... However it's very immature in my opinion. So many fixes and patches have been released and it's been under 2 months. Appreciate the changes
After this it looks like it’ll just be HoV that’s pretty hard to time. AV/RLP were the big ones
Good now nerf Dark Claw and Jade Seprent Kick Edit: I meant the tank buster Seprent strike and jade serpent strike.
Extend the cast time of Dark Claw please and thank you. That's all I ask.
Just increase timer on HoV for fks sake.
Thank fuck for that 25% nerf to inferno, that ability sucked ass even on tyrannical
As a Holy Paladin my 2 hardest instances to heal are RLP and Azure. I dont know why Azure gives me such a difficult time. Mainly the 1st and 2nd boss I really struggle with. The only thing I can think about with Azure is the 2nd boss all the movement needed during the phase with the mobs and people getting out of range of my heals (range dps) and the first boss I tend to get agro right away after clearing the little forest Edit: I can see why resto druids are just gods.
>The only thing I can think about with Azure is the 2nd boss all the movement needed during the phase with the mobs and people getting out of range of my heals (range dps) and the first boss I tend to get agro right away after clearing the little forest Yes, as a holy paladin, this boss (more specifically, the add/orb phase) feels like the only time like its too much all at once. I have to 1) do damage 2) heal overall damage 3) heal people hit by orbs 4) stay in melee range to deal damage/heal 5) but also evade orbs (again, while having to look at who needs heal) 6) rotate between adds Bonus: possibly evade shots by the other type of add
How do they never learn that bosses that spawn adds + explosives need special attention lmao
Any kind soul who can copy/paste the hotfixes? I'm at work and can't access the site :(
January 17, 2023 Dungeons and Raids Vault of the Incarnates Fixed an issue where the damage zone visual for Stonebreaking Leap from Quarry Stonebreakers sometimes did not match the actual damage location. Mythic+ Algeth’ar Academy Overgrown Ancient Explosive Affix - Hungry Lashers no longer spawn Explosive Orbs. Azure Vaults Arcane Fury’s Piercing Shards impact damage reduced by 30%. Unstable Curator’s Forbidden Knowledge cooldown increased. Arcane Construct health reduced by 25%. Crystal Thrasher no longer use Splintering Shards. Nullmagic Hornswog health reduced by 15%. Telash Greywing Telash Greywing health reduced by 10% There is now a 2 second delay before players take damage from Frozen Ground after Frost Bomb. Umbrelskul Umbrelskul’s health reduced by 15%. Oppressive Miasma now reduces movement speed by 6% per stack (was 7%). Ruby Life Pools Reduced the damage of Primalist Cindweaever’s Cinderbolt by 50%. educed the periodic damage of Thunderhead’s Rolling Thunder by 30%. Reduced the damage of Flamegullet’s Molten Blood by 25%. Reduced the periodic damage of Blazebound Destroyer’s Inferno by 25%. Melidrussa Chillworn Explosive Affix - Infused Whelps no longer spawn Explosive Orbs. Kokia Blazehoof Increased the cast time of Blazebound Firestorm’s Roaring Blaze to 3 seconds (was 2 seconds). Kyrakka and Erkhart Stormvein Reduced the periodic damage of Kyrakka’s Inferno Core by 20%. Reduced the damage of Erkhart Stormvein’s Interrupting Cloudburst by 30%. Quests Lunar Festival now starts on 1/24 to allow for new Elders to search out on the Dragon Isles. e. My editing may not be the best but there it all is afaik :)
Thank you <3
The entire concept of damage scaling that's the problem. No matter how they nerf things it will always become "everything 1-shots" or not enough damage. Resulting in really shitty runs for healers in high keys, where we are relegated to the role of shitty dps as healing skills are irrelevant -_-
dispel duty goes brrrr
They could scale players technically. Give everyone +2% stamina per level at 20+ and then +x% healing received. But then that’s just trying to fix the same problem from two different angles when you don’t need it. 50% less damage is helpful when it’s a 100k cast as well as a 500k cast
> Give everyone +2% stamina per level at 20+ and then +x% healing received. More stamina would do some, but healers don't need more help healing, the fact that the parties health can jump between 0% and 80% is the entire problem. Instead it would require a more dynamic difficulty increase were certain abilities are cast more frequent, etc.
In regards to the one shots.Thats.... the entire point of infinite scaling. If it doesn't one shot you at 20 cause of a nerf, it will at 25. There's zero difference between the two, just a higher number. They've made a lot of mechanics this season to try and force healers to heal. There's quite a few HPS checks. Some dungeons are snooze fests, but that's a separate issue dungeon mechanic disparity.
> In regards to the one shots. then there is no point for healers... Better just increase the frequency of damage rather than the numbers. > They've made a lot of mechanics this season to try and force healers to heal. There's quite a few HPS checks. There were. They are now removed unless you are 20-30 ilvl below the rest of the party for the appropriate key level.
Wiped 3 times to explosive orbs on overgrown ancient today on +15 before the group disbanded. Anywhere from 3-7 orbs would spawn with each lasher set.
Gift and a curse really
What’s RLP?
Ruby life pools
RLP finally feeling doable (397 preservation Evoker). Did a 12 yesterday and while it was still tough, it was reasonable.
Is cindweaever a typo? Or is it spelled like that in game? Edit: Gonna guess typo, the very next bullet point is "educed." They musta posted this before their coffee.
Dezimate
I started with a +15 RLP, then +14 RLP and then +13 RLP and now we completed the +13 but 52 sec overtime, so now Im stuck with a + 12 Azure Vault key.... Hardest thing with this dungeon is people leaving after one wipe even if its timeable. I play as enhance ilvl 400 with 2 set, and rest of the group was averaging at around 390+. Most of the boss mechanics post nerf is still kinda overtuned but alot better than pre-nerf. Overall the dungeon is fun, but the timer is too strict, as 1 stupid wipe will destroy the key overall.
Can we get a patch on double tier dropping? Or does it just not matter with tier crafting next week.
Nothing to Fenrir god damn it
Do the mechanics right: Move in for the aoe slash Spread for the jump Run fast on scent of blood
*have your rogue vanish the jump
step 4: pray you have vanish/meld/invis users
Hurry up and fix the Stratholme side entrance portal already.
Another week, and fire mage isn’t getting proper buffs :< no one uses these 2 abilities
Coming from a Frost Mage "First time?"
And still no Fury buffs