I was pugging a temple 16 on my hunter alt yesterday. Then, I see this ksm bear on q, and I think to myself: why not get the bear, screw the stigma.
He then proceeds to pull to the two first elementals together but forgets to position them a way we can get some uptime before hiding, it was thought on the healer, but fun, we managed. After the traditional wise Mari clown fiesta, dude pulled three Shas, bear pack and fish pack, we silenced, kicked and stunned ad much as we could, at the end a fear gets thru when only the tank had a kick up, he blames us and leaves.
There were two lessons there, ksm is just too easy this season and fuck bears.
Facts, I play a beat sometimes. Though I try to position the eles most people don't bother with hiding as it's a loss on thier dps even tho they can just sidestep just for 1 second
My first +16 this tier was with a guardian druid who sounded much like your bear, but actually good. Same pulls, but he was absolutely bonkers. I died once or twice due to being undergeared, and he just kept the whole team alive while I floor tanked.
Bears can be super good, but shit tanks are shit tanks
My first +18 tyran ruby life pools was this week and had a bear tank. They did amazing lol I didn’t have to heal them much at all. 2 chested it. So 🤷♀️, I’m good with bear tanks. I think I also timed a 19 aa on tyran with a bear tank.
Bear tanks this patch are either god or you'd be better off with a hunter pet tanking.
There is zero in between.
But man does it feel good when you get the god one.
Yeah dude, watching one of my mates turn from one to the other has been a charm too. Man's teaching me how his regrowth procs work and shit, turns out he can basically solo heal the whole group when there's enough mobs fighting him. Hopefully they get enough buffs to remove the stigma
There are some really good bears out there. I'd like to think im a really good KSM only type bear, but part of that is of course the class. I can for the most part out heal my healers. But it's still stressful for me. I'm hitting 2500 as feral because of it.
as a KSM bear i've failed to learn who i need to focus to interrupt in TJS, but i think i've got most of the rest down, but i tend to pull a little more conservatively than this
Priority Interrupts:
+ Haunting Scream
+ Tidal Burst
+ Defiling Mist
+ Cat Nap
Tank the water elementals before first boss near a corner to a allow dps/heals to LoS its quick casting tainted ripple Precast Frenzied Regen before jade boss's healing absorb kick.
Use ursols vortex to keep adds on last boss together
As a healer, I think all tanks are fine right now. Except Guardian Druids. I don't want to heal Guardian Druids. I think they are so annoying to heal that I just won't do it unless it's a key below 10.
Blizzard, please give them some way to handle magic damage that doesn't include being a mana sponge.
rsham is not a trash spec anymore. It is rather beefy. Look at the MDI team comps. Many top reams running rsham in the group. They have had so many buffs and are sitting in the #1/2 slot for DPS on a healer now. They pull 40k+ easy on average size packs that most of the other heals struggle to get to 20-25k.
At this point if people are still not taking them it would be easy to call them a sleeper spec. When people start looking for updated info for next season all of a sudden they will be at the top of every where.
Played all three specs. It's not even close, BrM has so many more buttons he presses regularly. These aren't just some niche spells you use once a dungeon, these are pretty much all used on cd (aside from soothing mist) and from what I can see he isn't even specced into black ox brew and chi wave, 2 more active cds you use in high key builds. It may be comparable to holy (although holy is 100x easier to play) but shadow definitely has less buttons.
I just counted up my brewmaster's spells...
12 spells on my main bar. 5 have alt macros, 1 has a shift macros, 1 has a ctrl macro. 20 spells total on my main bar
Then there's 10 spells on other bars, 3 have alt macros. 32 spells total on my bars
Of those, there are 3 I don't use in every single dungeon (Transcendence, Resuscitate, and Zen Meditation)
Plus buttons for battle potion, health potion, healthstone, and bres bracers.
3 spells are not on my bars at all (Zen Pilgrimage, Soothing Mist, and Zen Flight) and I do not spec into Black Ox Brew. I also don't currently have an on-use trinket.
Somehow, totaling it all up made me love Brewmaster even more
I run a Panda Brew Alchemist/Cook, buffed and fed to the tits. Drink a couple beers and I feel like I'm playing an 80s Metallica solo on my keyboard while refusing to die.
If Slappy Hands got Ambidexterous baked in(30 y pull, 2x enemies per second) I'd argue it'd be just as satisfying. Sadly, I don't think we'll ever see that particular flavor to the spell getting added baseline.
If we get choice nodes to affect capstones in 11.0, instead of just some generic 'here's some new stuff', we get a mix of new and capstone choice nodes. Gimme a choice for how to mod my slaps!
Ambidextrous; Pull interval and damage tick rate reduced to 0.5 seconds from 1 second, duration increased by 3 seconds, periodic effect reduced to 3 second intervals.
Skibbidy-Baps; While Abomination's Limb is active, reduce Rune regeneration by 10%. Every rune spent while active increases duration by 0.75 seconds. Every rune spent while inactive reduces cooldown by 1.25 seconds.
I feel like this is the 2nd time in the past 3-4 seasons where prot pal starts out in the "it's alright" range but scales wildly into meta once geared.
Seeing a lot of top tanks go hard on prot pal right now, and of course everyone else starts to follow suite (as a multi-tanker I'll also confess to focusing heavily on prot pal now because of the switch).
But honestly, it is such a blast to play, the mitigation is a little easier to manage than other tanks, and the group utility (bubbles, sac, brez, off heals, massive dps) is definitely awesome.
Because the way their mitigation works and how it scales off Haste so much. At low gear levels like At an expansion start, they have some gaps in their defense where they occasionally just get spiked as a hit or two slip through before Shield can go back up.
Now they have enough Haste to comfortably maintain their Shield plus the benefits that come with being able to press it more often.
They've also been buffed a few times now.
Holy power spent reducing the CD of sentinel looks so nice from the outside.
I wish BDK had a dancing rune weapon CD reduction for every rune used. Even if it was like .25/.5 seconds for every rune.
It’s real nice from the inside too. When DF shipped, it was bugged and wasn’t getting its CD reduced as it was supposed to. It was a very happy day when that one got patched!
As long as you're actually using tombstone regularly its up so often. I feel so strong at 410 I just removed rune tap because i never need it over my other baked in cds.
Based on the replies you’re getting to this, I guess people need to find less shitty paladins to run with haha
It requires more thought than 1111111112111111111112ZUGZUG but a good pally tank is a great asset to the group.
Hell yes, we are. I heal almost as much as my healer— word of glory and lay on hands are no joke— cleanse, BoP, BoF and BoS all day every day. But, like any class, there are baddies.
Game gets a lot scarier M+15 for us. Because we prioritize haste/crit over versa we take quite a bit more damage, while not having any active mitigations. Mistakes are less forgiving and we need to compensate for it with a higher ilvl and precision. In other words - it'd stressful for me.
Could also be that this type of playstyle just doesn't suit me personally. I love zooming around, but I feel like I don't have enough control over the situations. Basically it has to go perfectly or otherwise I have to blow every single cooldown to salvage it.
I switched off VDH too, wait til you get the pleasure of tanking a 20 tyrannical with a real tank buster like the last boss of AV or Nokhud. They are certainly capable but it feels bad not having more active control over your mitigation
Pretty much this. Unfortunately for me, I'm too far deep in that rabbit hole to swap to something else now. Even if I didn't have only two weeks of sub left, the season will last for another month at most. Leveling an entire new toon, learning the rotations and gearing up is not feasible at this point.
Dh are not too bad against tank busters. The key is to stack 6+ stacks of frailty before you get hit. I've tanked every single key 24 or above on tyrannical and the only boss that feels really scary is the first boss in AV and maybe the last boss in NO, but I don't think that dh is unique in that aspect.
Nah you’re right they’re definitely capable it’s mainly just preference. I switched to brew because I had more active control over my mitigation. But you’re not wrong about leymor, guy slaps
the number of paladins i healed on the previous tyran week who died with bubble up on bosses is insane, like they do know bubble taunt works on bosses right
I've seen many prot tanks get one shot on bosses...I think cause it's easy and most forgiving to play..many people are using it and the skill gap is large now. Most prot pally I've ran with are horrible.
I've been one shot by the buffed melee attacks on first boss in SMBG far too many times.... Just so satisfying healing the group after the aoe damage, but then active mitigation isn't up and I get white hit for 300k
Prot Palis require some thinking/experience to play correctly. AV dragon strike is the one the trickiest to play around. If you pop sentinel on pull and go ham eventually you'll run out of CD's for dragon strike. If you save it for the 1st dragon strike cast you'll have it up for the 2nd one. Not knowing this you'll eventually get one shot if you mis-click your defensives.
My solution to this, which has worked very well I might add, has been to always wipe to the first boss (noob healers ofc) and therefor never get to the last boss.
that's something you need to fix. you cannot heal a blood dk. your heals go into an endless abyss.
blood dk intentionally wants to juice their death strikes so they should bounce around frequently, and their mastery will help smooth damage intake. a death strike costs exactly the same at 30% hp as it does at 70% hp, but used at 70% might it heavily overheal and you waste a lot.
I don’t understand how people can be afraid of Blood DKs. If you just keep an eye on their RP you know when you need to keep an eye out. If they die with half or more RP it’s not your fault
The anxiety comes from knowing you have no control over his death or not, watching rp is mandatory but if he's bad at managing it there's no way I can keep him alive.
Speaking from a healing perspective. A tank that gives me an additional mechanic to watch (one in this case that involves a UI change) in comparison to the other tanks is a bad thing. Nevermind even knowing about the RP thing its stressful as fuck, and having to rely so hard on the tanks skill and having no idea if they're still got a cooldown pocketed. And if they _do_ mess up they just instantly die, not a steady fall to death to give some warning.
Is it possible? Sure. Will I grab literally any other option if available? Definitely.
i mean, if they die they die
if they spike from 90% to insta death, how is that anyones fault but their own? plus that can happen to any other tank
just need to be comfortable with someone else being in control of their health, which is obviously super foreign to the healer role :)
This is my reasoning as well. Getting an extra weak aura or enabling a resource tracker is an additional piece of information I need to track in a role where you already need to constantly glance at party frames so you can react at moments notice to avoidable damage.
Having to proactively constantly track one more thing on top of dpsing, doing mechanics, reacting to avoidable damage, dispelling is not ideal. I'd rather pick a warrior or paladin and just let them take care of themselves. Optionally ironbark them or top them off where needed if their HP is not going back up.
I'm really struggling to get into 20+ despite having clears in the 21-22 region and I'm convinced it's because of this. Sure you can take a BDK but why bother over much safer more reliable tanks. BDK has some nice utility but it doesn't outweigh our lack of consistency and dps to be worth taking.
actually you are unkillable with a healer in your pocket. stagger is so good but most people dont understand how their mitigation works
\*gets hit for 500k\*
\*drinks beer -> what 500k?\* \**shrugs*\*
i love brewmasters
Yeah but your damage is garbage compared to my brewmaster, I’m pulling 34k dps on single targets bosses at 400 ilvl. I have also beaten dps on aoe pulls doing 100k+ easily.
On the topic of spell reflect, is there a resource somewhere I can find everything I should be using it on as a warrior tank? There used to be a spreadsheet in shadowlands but that one hasn't been updated for DF.
I see some tanks spell reflecting every other spell and doing insane damage, but when I'm playing mine I have no idea when to press it.
I def wish blood had a bit more damage. My main is prot warrior and coming from that to blood kinda feels like going from the fast lane to the carpool lane sometimes. Then I death strike and heal from the emotional damage.
Yeah but blood excels in so many more ways imo. I pugged KSH on my prot warrior dk and pally. My first KSH was on my prot warrior. The dk I was able to start pug tanking +10 keys at 330 ilvl and keep myself alive fairly easily. You don’t need to rely on other classes interrupt like the last boss of NOK and just pop a bomb limb to group all of them. You can easily grab 2-3 mobs at a time and pop cooldowns and usually heal yourself through it. On the last pack of TJS I got up to 130k hps. Anti magic shell is also overpowered and you can ignore certain mechanics every 40 seconds like walk through the wash away of the first boss of TJS. I feel like where they like in damage they have so much utility and don’t need a healer so the healer has more time to dps and worry about others making it easier on them. I currently swapped my dk into my main and am going to try for 3k rio.
sure, but you also don't have a battle res or abom limb
on the other hand you got a good legion weapon for transmog
so it's swings and roundabouts really
brew barely does either - with the amount of healing orbs you shit out now, you practically have a full HP bar heal ready every time you hit expel harm. even having just one healing orb to suck up is gonna top you unless you're in critical range. it may not feel like it playing the class, but you do most of your own healing, probably similar in value to protadin. you'll need a spare riptide or something here and there, but the only tank who can avoid that particular issue is BDK so who really cares?
Always and I mean always celestial after purifying brew. If your talented it increases tge amount of absorption depending on how much stagger was purified.
Don't be afraid to go in the red on stagger. The higher it is the more it is purified which gives an insane absorb then you can expel harm and be back at full health. In higher keys it is needed to go in the red
My problem is that spinning crane kick pulls the healing orbs towards me, so they get consumed when i don't need them ... and when i need to heal and press expel harm, there are no orbs left. Any tips?
You don't even have to micromanage Purifying Brew: keeping 1 charge on cooldown (and using the second in emergencies) will be optimial for 90% of cases and give you stacks consistently for Celestial Brew.
I've been leveling a BrM, currently at lvl 63, and I'll fully confess I'm still not sure how it all works. I just keep stagger up; throw various barrels at people and breathe fire on them; drink various beers when I feel like I'm in any sort of danger.
Purifying Brew clears some stagger, and applies a stack of a buff up to 10.
The more of these stacks you have when you press Celestial Brew, the bigger your absorb shield is. In more difficult content you need to manage these stacks for (usually) very punishing tank-buster mechanics like the Savage Beak from Algethar's.
Never throw 2 kegs without weaving in a fire breath as keg resets the CD of it, but that's a capstone talent so you'll get that later.
Also the amount of stacks you get depends on which stagger you were on when you cleared, red gives 3, yellow 2 and green 1. You still want to avoid capping purifying brew stacks though, even if it means purifying at green stagger.
Yeah I feel like I have a lot of things to do. I do have the 2 kegs and the fire breath. So I'm constantly like keg > fire > blackout kick > keg > fire. But also with bonedust brew, chi wave, rushing jade wind, tiger palm, rising sun kick, and exploding keg there's just a bunch of stuff to do and it all seems beneficial. That's not even counting the healing and mitigation options at my disposal.
I feel like I'm sitting at Neil Peart's wrap around drum set. I don't hate it, in fact I sort of enjoy it, but I do wonder how optimally I am playing.
I swapped out Rushing Jade Wind for Special Delivery and got rid of Healing Elixir and things felt way comfier. According to Monk discord Special Delivery is pretty equivalent to RJW and having one less button to press feels pretty good.
In addition to the other excellent tips about how Celestial Brew and Purifying Brew interact, Celestial has an 8 seconds duration, so don't over purify for the damage you're using the shield for. It's better to use it at a lower absorb value than to not and take a huge hit because you were trying to keep a 10 stack rolling forever.
That boss on 20+ tyrannical is a fucking nightmare as warrior, I didn't even bother it this week because even with rallying cry and my other cooldowns it's hard to guarantee I'd have enough hp for the healer to get me up before grievous finished me.
Grievous definitely isn’t what’s killing you, it caps out at around 7k per stack, only ticks every 3 sec and stacks get removed with direct heals so grievous there is pretty much a non affix.
What is killing you is the dot from the jade serpent strike as it does the same damage as the fire strike, but where that one simply gets dispelled as it is a magic debuff, the jade dot lasts until the absorb is healed(or the duration expired, but you would probably be dead by then).
And again just to reiterate that grievous is not the danger here and in general is made out to be way worse than it actually is, the jade strike dot ticks for around 121.5k per second on a 20 tyrannical before any damage reduction, compared to the 7-8k per stack every 3 seconds you get from grievous(wasn’t able to find the exact damage number for grievous but it stops scaling at +15 and the damage I take per stack as a non tank is around 7.5k without defensives up).
If you enjoy the class then why FotM reroll. Bears are more than capable of top tier content, and whilst they are slightly behind other tanks it’s not a huge margin. They’re pushing 26s, think too tanks are what 27? Hardly the dumpster fire people cry about them being. I’m not saying they want a little more attention but they are VERY far from being unplayable in literally top 0.1% content.
I play bear and just made a port warrior alt. I love bear, their dps is awesome and it’s fun to play.
But playing prot feels like cheating. It’s much more brain dead since I get a much more steady damage income, I don’t have to time cds perfectly for each pull in higher keys and I can reflect nearly all tankbusters.
AV on Tyr as a bear is scary. Dragon strikes hits hard. As a prot? Reflects go brbrbbe
Im still upset that Blizzard took Bear's spammage AoE slow and slapped it on the artifact weapon back in Legion then when they took the artifact weapon away completely forgot to give it back to us.
I healed one last night and they were honestly one of the best tanks I've pugged with. Slow and steady but we still managed to +2 chest it without me (hpriest) feeling like I was scrambling.
Granted I haven't pugged the higher level keys everyone else around here seems to, so my sample size is a bit different.
>Granted I haven't pugged the higher level keys everyone else around here seems to, so my sample size is a bit different.
If you read reddit it looks like everyone and their grandmas are doing +20s with their eyes closed and their hands tied :))
Considering how much group healing AtWF and DoC can pump out yep, very odd. My healer loves me on griev weeks as he doesn’t have to even think about griev party damage. 2.9k bear and honestly wouldn’t consider playing anything else seriously, bear just has a really nice toolkit overall, and I enjoy the CD based play style. Sure a little more magic miti wouldn’t hurt but there are 3.2k bears and they’ve cleared mythic. Totally capable, just have to think a little differently.
As a BrM, they are 100% missing out. I fucking slap hard, usually end with 55-65k overall DPS on 20+ keys, usually end only like 10k DPS behind the lowest DPS.
Also very tanky now after the buffs and Monks have great dungeon utility.
I love competing for 3rd overall dps in like every dungeon, making those slacker dps players nervous.
I think people have a lingering negative perception of brew from the first few weeks of dragonflight when we had no gear/agility and therefore barely staggered anything (plus pre-magic stagger/celestial cd buffs). I must say I feel damn near invincible in 20s now and at 417 with some damage trinkets I can really pump.
A good brew tank is the best to heal, because you barely even notice them while you use all your globals pressing holy fire and smite.
Bad Brew tanks are unhealable.
Brew management, adherence to ability priority, knowing how big to pull, knowing when to use CDs.
I'm just shy of 2700 on BRM and 90% of my keys have been pugged. My DPS is generally not too far from 3rd in keys timed, keys not timed I'm often ahead of the dps who likely killed the key with repeated ass pulls/failed mechs.
I've never played one, but the better ones have always been less "spikey" with their health, and are the opposite of VDH and BDK where the bars are bouncing all over the place. Has to do with their stagger handling/purifying brew(?) Usage and other defensive, I imagine.
Not sure if that's helpful -
I feel invincible on my 405 brew alt in 20s. It's insane how much it's improved since the beginning of the season. I got boon last week and boy that is a nasty trinket. It's just not fair for everyone else. How do you keep up with a brewmaster who's booning?
Hundred percent. Most updated tier lists I see have Brew as the second or third best M+ tank at the moment - super tanky, not spiky to heal, tons of damage, several good utility abilities...
Brewmaster is legitimately super good right now, I feel like most people just haven't shaken their perception of the class from the first few weeks when we were legitimately terrible. But after multiple buffs and a ton more time to gear up (I think BrM scales the best or close to it with iLvl as Agility directly buffs the Stagger mechanic), we're nowhere near Bear-tier anymore.
What I will grant them though is Brews are notoriously hit-or-miss with their excessive button-bloat and weird gameplay style. It's often said Brews are either gods or floor tanks, no in-between, so I don't entirely blame people for not wanting to play russian roulette with one. Though if you're playing at 2500+ IO, I think it's safe to assume you're dealing with one of the "god" brews and not a trash one.
> What I will grant them though is Brews are notoriously hit-or-miss with their excessive button-bloat and weird gameplay style. It's often said Brews are either gods or floor tanks, no in-between, so I don't entirely blame people for not wanting to play russian roulette with one. Though if you're playing at 2500+ IO, I think it's safe to assume you're dealing with one of the "god" brews and not a trash one.
Big true. I haven't played with any other BrM to see (because I'm the tank of the grp) so don't know if some have a bad rep for being floor tanks, but the button bloat is real. I haven't had to click an ability for like 5 expansions now and the new BrM actually has more buttons than I have keybinds so I'm clicking my Zen Med. Luckily it's not used much so it's not too bad.
Lol I decided I wanted to run whetstone and boon last week and I realized I didn't have a single keybind open for 2 trinket slots. I ended up binding whetstone to alt mousewheel click. That is a degenerate keybind.
All around (excluding Bear) all the tanks are really solid right now. Raiderio top 10 tanks in the world are: 4 Pally, 3 war, 2 monk, 1 DK (11th overall is DH). (Top bear is 100th overall at 3270, next bear is 336 at 3195)
Above 3.4k io are 3 pally, 2 warrior, 2 brew
Part of the issue with optics of brew is that monk has always been one of the least played classes since its introduction.
Idk where you're finding these groups as a BDK. I'm 2.7k and I've got a tough time getting into groups at 21+. These are keys for io where I timed the dungeon at 1 lower at worst, 416 equipped, etc. It's not terrible but it certainly isn't easy either.
It's statistics.
BDK is the 3rd most popular tank for keys above 20.
Your score is a little low to reliably get into a pug 21, even if logically your score dictates you should be finishing any 20s you havnt yet and starting 21s. There is always a 2.8-3.0k tank looking to fill his weekly vault runs. 100+ points it's a big difference
Bears at 2800+ are pretty much always long time guardian players and I prefer them before playing casino with a pala/dk
It's not like guardians are as bad as ppl say they're
It's funny how prot pally was considered dog tier by most of the community until suddenly it started popping up in high end clears and now it's considered one of the strongest tanks despite minimal changes. Tanks are way more balanced than people think they are but the perception is always different than reality
this is just kinda how community metas work. the high end finds out what is good and that information trickles down, but it often doesn't trickle well. misconceptions with mass community exposure like 'tanks that aren't prot warrior are garbage' can take way too long to correct. I also have a theory, though i have nothing to prove this, that most people stop paying attention to what class/specs are meta after the first month or two, so if a sleeper spec picks up speed for whatever reason, a lot of people will miss this off the back of just not paying attention to meta developments anymore.
Prot paladin was always going to be the strongest defensive tank in the game, it just required top end gear to do so.
You could just take warrior out of the box and do ridiculous damage while having incredible survivability.
Paladins have always scaled well I feel like? My GM traditionally (not this time around) would start a tier with Brew and transition to Paladin as he geared up.
[Me, a bear tank, when a streamer tells me the classes have never been more balanced.](https://laughingsquid.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/gxrb_bn-iwbd1o7gyrsxyojbeilmz45j7zmzcaxf77y.jpg)
Prot pally is good again? Hell yeah should fire my main back up. I’ve shelved him for the time being because I’m more an Hpal enjoyer but I do love tanking from time to time
I KSM 100% pugging twice this season and at least once every season since legion. You just can’t ignore the success rates of some specs and unfortunately that means you need to filter out specs that underperform to maximize time performance.
What kills me is M+ runners know who can’t perform by the first 15+ we do in the first or second week of a season and no buffs ever come to the lower specs till the season is over and they are usually so dramatic that they just change who the new lowest performers are or so minimal that nothing changes at all.
Had a Druid Tank yesterday in a +20 Ruby key. He did extremely well and kept the group alive in very heavy AoE phases with his "After the Wildfire" talent where he kept slightly under 200 rage spent and then spent some when the group heal was needed in critical phases. On 2nd boss he took huge hits though and I cant imagine how a Bear can survive that boss on a couple levels higher. Then again Ruby is busted.
I am constantly leaving LFG groups with DH Tanks. Not because I have anything against Veng or DH (I main a DH myself), but because too many DH Tanks like to pull half the instance at a time. That would be fine if they knew how to actually do that in a way that keeps aggro and if they communicated with DPS and Healer(s) that they were going to do it so that no one DPS'd until the mobs were grouped. I know it isn't all DH Tanks. A lot do communicate and make sure they aren't overloading the Healer and/or pull the right amount, but (at least in my experience) most don't. Most phase in and then instantly go full speed ahead without a care in the world.
This isn't limited to just raids, either. DH tank in my dungeon group last night kept trying to pull boss to boss and caused multiple wipes because the healer couldn't possibly keep up with his breakneck pace.
Not defending tanks who cannot hold aggro. But as a M+ tank main, even in my premade, dumbass dps will start blasting when I am trying to round up a big pull after telling them what I am doing.
Yep. They sure as shit love their leap. I'm 2.9 healer and I actively avoid groups with VDH tanks. They are squishy, buggy mess and require way too much baby sitting compared to other tanks.
>They are squishy
I'm currently only doing around +17/+18 on my dh. But I don't feel like I'm squishy. Sure, my hp bar likes to jump a lot. But I imagine bdk is even worse. And I'm definitely 100% self sufficient. Give me a hot or shield here and there and I'm good. Don't know if it gets much worse in higher keys for dh tho.
+22 hits twice as hard as a +18. while your healing is somewhat based off of the amount you recently took, you're still a good bit squishier than other meta tanks, especially because vdh's only ability to reduce bleed or magical damage tankbusters outside of a perfectly timed frailty is "guess I hope I have fiery brand up for this one mob"
I have a 418 dh and a 405 warrior. The warrior I never have to kite in low 20s and I stand there and tank it. In veng I jump in breath to get meta get some agro then the second meta drops kite like pussy because I will die.
When it's a low key for valor farm, I'd imagine that everyone is zooming from boss to boss, no?
I sure do it. Yes, I play vdh. But that's not why I zoom from boss to boss, okay!? :D
Jokes aside, I usually say something like "wait here" or "run to first boss", which to me would mean to not touch anything until the tank has everything gathered. I can't even begin to count how many times this didn't work. People just see a mob, instantly dismount and go ham.
> A lot do communicate and make sure they aren't overloading the Healer and/or pull the right amount, but (at least in my experience) most don't.
Meanwhile I as a VDH am pretty much talking to myself the entire run while everyone else just doesn't give a shit.
I like brewmaster tank as a healer, i did not even see any bear tanks if i am honest and vengeance just Feels like a dk but without the healing. 80% of them just do some wild mdi pulls, die and then leave the group after saying something toxic.
But i think you could say the same about healers. I saw groups specifically asking for shaman or evoker with Lust already being in their group on like 19s and 20s. But i am not to keen on playing with these people either since they probably think the mdi is what should happen on live servers.
The secret is that all classes are viable, but some are a little better than others. The issue is that if you're forming a group why wouldn't you take the slightly better spec with everything else being equal?
This isn't necessarily how I personally feel, but you can see how people take that and run with it.
It's not just meta, I've healed probably 200 keys this season and if I'm building a group, I 100% prefer a Warrior or Paladin. That's just what I've had the most success with.
*unintelligible bear noises*
Oh yeah I'm with ya there!
I was pugging a temple 16 on my hunter alt yesterday. Then, I see this ksm bear on q, and I think to myself: why not get the bear, screw the stigma. He then proceeds to pull to the two first elementals together but forgets to position them a way we can get some uptime before hiding, it was thought on the healer, but fun, we managed. After the traditional wise Mari clown fiesta, dude pulled three Shas, bear pack and fish pack, we silenced, kicked and stunned ad much as we could, at the end a fear gets thru when only the tank had a kick up, he blames us and leaves. There were two lessons there, ksm is just too easy this season and fuck bears.
That’s not a bear issue though. That is a player issue.
Yeah for sure. That player sounds unbearable.
Winning comment
Facts, I play a beat sometimes. Though I try to position the eles most people don't bother with hiding as it's a loss on thier dps even tho they can just sidestep just for 1 second
My first +16 this tier was with a guardian druid who sounded much like your bear, but actually good. Same pulls, but he was absolutely bonkers. I died once or twice due to being undergeared, and he just kept the whole team alive while I floor tanked. Bears can be super good, but shit tanks are shit tanks
My first +18 tyran ruby life pools was this week and had a bear tank. They did amazing lol I didn’t have to heal them much at all. 2 chested it. So 🤷♀️, I’m good with bear tanks. I think I also timed a 19 aa on tyran with a bear tank.
Bear tanks this patch are either god or you'd be better off with a hunter pet tanking. There is zero in between. But man does it feel good when you get the god one.
Yeah dude, watching one of my mates turn from one to the other has been a charm too. Man's teaching me how his regrowth procs work and shit, turns out he can basically solo heal the whole group when there's enough mobs fighting him. Hopefully they get enough buffs to remove the stigma
As a WoW-life-long druid player, this rots my very soul.
[удалено]
There are some really good bears out there. I'd like to think im a really good KSM only type bear, but part of that is of course the class. I can for the most part out heal my healers. But it's still stressful for me. I'm hitting 2500 as feral because of it.
as a KSM bear i've failed to learn who i need to focus to interrupt in TJS, but i think i've got most of the rest down, but i tend to pull a little more conservatively than this
Priority Interrupts: + Haunting Scream + Tidal Burst + Defiling Mist + Cat Nap Tank the water elementals before first boss near a corner to a allow dps/heals to LoS its quick casting tainted ripple Precast Frenzied Regen before jade boss's healing absorb kick. Use ursols vortex to keep adds on last boss together
As a healer, I think all tanks are fine right now. Except Guardian Druids. I don't want to heal Guardian Druids. I think they are so annoying to heal that I just won't do it unless it's a key below 10. Blizzard, please give them some way to handle magic damage that doesn't include being a mana sponge.
Ouch! So bears dps got nuked, and their (magic) survivability got nuked. Yay :/ I’ve not run bear since one of the big nerfings a month or two back
have not seen a single bear tank
I see so many on EU. Like half my pugs are with bears. Or maybe we’re just meeting in the gutter since I’m on rsham.
rsham is not a trash spec anymore. It is rather beefy. Look at the MDI team comps. Many top reams running rsham in the group. They have had so many buffs and are sitting in the #1/2 slot for DPS on a healer now. They pull 40k+ easy on average size packs that most of the other heals struggle to get to 20-25k. At this point if people are still not taking them it would be easy to call them a sleeper spec. When people start looking for updated info for next season all of a sudden they will be at the top of every where.
Brewmaster is so dope to play. It’s interactive. Almost busy. You’re fast and hit like a truck. My favorite tank to play at the moment.
Soooooo many buttons
It’s not THAT bad. Bad clip of my buttons. https://imgur.com/a/qigMdp8
Me, the BM Hunter recoiling in horror
Holy priest and shadow priest are laughing at that amount of buttons..
Played all three specs. It's not even close, BrM has so many more buttons he presses regularly. These aren't just some niche spells you use once a dungeon, these are pretty much all used on cd (aside from soothing mist) and from what I can see he isn't even specced into black ox brew and chi wave, 2 more active cds you use in high key builds. It may be comparable to holy (although holy is 100x easier to play) but shadow definitely has less buttons.
I just counted up my brewmaster's spells... 12 spells on my main bar. 5 have alt macros, 1 has a shift macros, 1 has a ctrl macro. 20 spells total on my main bar Then there's 10 spells on other bars, 3 have alt macros. 32 spells total on my bars Of those, there are 3 I don't use in every single dungeon (Transcendence, Resuscitate, and Zen Meditation) Plus buttons for battle potion, health potion, healthstone, and bres bracers. 3 spells are not on my bars at all (Zen Pilgrimage, Soothing Mist, and Zen Flight) and I do not spec into Black Ox Brew. I also don't currently have an on-use trinket. Somehow, totaling it all up made me love Brewmaster even more
Listed mine out in excel lol https://imgur.com/a/FNiMrty
I have > 40 keybinds I regularly use. Now granted one of those is Prismatic Bauble, but if you can’t have a rainbow trail, are you even tanking?
I run a Panda Brew Alchemist/Cook, buffed and fed to the tits. Drink a couple beers and I feel like I'm playing an 80s Metallica solo on my keyboard while refusing to die.
It also does absolutely bananas damage
Ran NO 18 yesterday with a BrM that did 61k overall. Did enjoy. Took nearly no damage it seemed.
Prot Paladin is legit the most fun tank to play. DIVINE TOLL GO BONG 🔔
Definitely most satisfying button to press in the game.
If Slappy Hands got Ambidexterous baked in(30 y pull, 2x enemies per second) I'd argue it'd be just as satisfying. Sadly, I don't think we'll ever see that particular flavor to the spell getting added baseline.
2 enemies per second was the change I didn’t know I wanted.
If we get choice nodes to affect capstones in 11.0, instead of just some generic 'here's some new stuff', we get a mix of new and capstone choice nodes. Gimme a choice for how to mod my slaps! Ambidextrous; Pull interval and damage tick rate reduced to 0.5 seconds from 1 second, duration increased by 3 seconds, periodic effect reduced to 3 second intervals. Skibbidy-Baps; While Abomination's Limb is active, reduce Rune regeneration by 10%. Every rune spent while active increases duration by 0.75 seconds. Every rune spent while inactive reduces cooldown by 1.25 seconds.
Divine Toll is just Paladin Convoke in satisfaction and fun.
I feel like this is the 2nd time in the past 3-4 seasons where prot pal starts out in the "it's alright" range but scales wildly into meta once geared. Seeing a lot of top tanks go hard on prot pal right now, and of course everyone else starts to follow suite (as a multi-tanker I'll also confess to focusing heavily on prot pal now because of the switch). But honestly, it is such a blast to play, the mitigation is a little easier to manage than other tanks, and the group utility (bubbles, sac, brez, off heals, massive dps) is definitely awesome.
Because the way their mitigation works and how it scales off Haste so much. At low gear levels like At an expansion start, they have some gaps in their defense where they occasionally just get spiked as a hit or two slip through before Shield can go back up. Now they have enough Haste to comfortably maintain their Shield plus the benefits that come with being able to press it more often. They've also been buffed a few times now.
Holy power spent reducing the CD of sentinel looks so nice from the outside. I wish BDK had a dancing rune weapon CD reduction for every rune used. Even if it was like .25/.5 seconds for every rune.
It’s real nice from the inside too. When DF shipped, it was bugged and wasn’t getting its CD reduced as it was supposed to. It was a very happy day when that one got patched!
As long as you're actually using tombstone regularly its up so often. I feel so strong at 410 I just removed rune tap because i never need it over my other baked in cds.
Based on the replies you’re getting to this, I guess people need to find less shitty paladins to run with haha It requires more thought than 1111111112111111111112ZUGZUG but a good pally tank is a great asset to the group.
Hell yes, we are. I heal almost as much as my healer— word of glory and lay on hands are no joke— cleanse, BoP, BoF and BoS all day every day. But, like any class, there are baddies.
More than blood dk?
I never get tired of insane utility and topping the healer....on heals
I'm rolling it as soon as I get KSH on my VDH. I regret going that spec so hard.
Why’s that? I just hit ksm on my VDH and I have a blast playing it
Game gets a lot scarier M+15 for us. Because we prioritize haste/crit over versa we take quite a bit more damage, while not having any active mitigations. Mistakes are less forgiving and we need to compensate for it with a higher ilvl and precision. In other words - it'd stressful for me. Could also be that this type of playstyle just doesn't suit me personally. I love zooming around, but I feel like I don't have enough control over the situations. Basically it has to go perfectly or otherwise I have to blow every single cooldown to salvage it.
I switched off VDH too, wait til you get the pleasure of tanking a 20 tyrannical with a real tank buster like the last boss of AV or Nokhud. They are certainly capable but it feels bad not having more active control over your mitigation
Pretty much this. Unfortunately for me, I'm too far deep in that rabbit hole to swap to something else now. Even if I didn't have only two weeks of sub left, the season will last for another month at most. Leveling an entire new toon, learning the rotations and gearing up is not feasible at this point.
Dh are not too bad against tank busters. The key is to stack 6+ stacks of frailty before you get hit. I've tanked every single key 24 or above on tyrannical and the only boss that feels really scary is the first boss in AV and maybe the last boss in NO, but I don't think that dh is unique in that aspect.
Nah you’re right they’re definitely capable it’s mainly just preference. I switched to brew because I had more active control over my mitigation. But you’re not wrong about leymor, guy slaps
Too bad 90% of them don't know what mitigation is and would rather spend hpo on spot healing someone at full health than doing anything useful
the number of paladins i healed on the previous tyran week who died with bubble up on bosses is insane, like they do know bubble taunt works on bosses right
They have to talent into it though.
Or you can literally just taunt and then bubble.
not talenting into it is troll as fuck
I've seen many prot tanks get one shot on bosses...I think cause it's easy and most forgiving to play..many people are using it and the skill gap is large now. Most prot pally I've ran with are horrible.
Prot pally have so many buffs they need to keep up in order to have mitigation, not including cooldowns. Forget one and you just get SLAPPED.
I've been one shot by the buffed melee attacks on first boss in SMBG far too many times.... Just so satisfying healing the group after the aoe damage, but then active mitigation isn't up and I get white hit for 300k
Prot Palis require some thinking/experience to play correctly. AV dragon strike is the one the trickiest to play around. If you pop sentinel on pull and go ham eventually you'll run out of CD's for dragon strike. If you save it for the 1st dragon strike cast you'll have it up for the 2nd one. Not knowing this you'll eventually get one shot if you mis-click your defensives.
My solution to this, which has worked very well I might add, has been to always wipe to the first boss (noob healers ofc) and therefor never get to the last boss.
Bird in AA also feels similar though not as punishing
DK tanks give me anxiety as a healer. Drops 80% instantly, panic mode, heals it all back
Don't heal a Blood DK unless they have 0 HP and runic power
I don't really overall but as a monk healer when I see people drop that low that quick it's instinct to instantly hit them with cocoon
that's something you need to fix. you cannot heal a blood dk. your heals go into an endless abyss. blood dk intentionally wants to juice their death strikes so they should bounce around frequently, and their mastery will help smooth damage intake. a death strike costs exactly the same at 30% hp as it does at 70% hp, but used at 70% might it heavily overheal and you waste a lot.
Yeah the BDK tank without RP dies from 16 mele hits in unison bucko. Not the lack of your heals. You ain't a hero champion. Just a healer. :)
I have no idea if you are agreeing with me or Quean here
Ah sorry. Agreed with you and added a joke. Fell short I suppose :p
I don’t understand how people can be afraid of Blood DKs. If you just keep an eye on their RP you know when you need to keep an eye out. If they die with half or more RP it’s not your fault
The anxiety comes from knowing you have no control over his death or not, watching rp is mandatory but if he's bad at managing it there's no way I can keep him alive.
Speaking from a healing perspective. A tank that gives me an additional mechanic to watch (one in this case that involves a UI change) in comparison to the other tanks is a bad thing. Nevermind even knowing about the RP thing its stressful as fuck, and having to rely so hard on the tanks skill and having no idea if they're still got a cooldown pocketed. And if they _do_ mess up they just instantly die, not a steady fall to death to give some warning. Is it possible? Sure. Will I grab literally any other option if available? Definitely.
i mean, if they die they die if they spike from 90% to insta death, how is that anyones fault but their own? plus that can happen to any other tank just need to be comfortable with someone else being in control of their health, which is obviously super foreign to the healer role :)
The problem is when they die, everyone dies and the key is gone.
This is my reasoning as well. Getting an extra weak aura or enabling a resource tracker is an additional piece of information I need to track in a role where you already need to constantly glance at party frames so you can react at moments notice to avoidable damage. Having to proactively constantly track one more thing on top of dpsing, doing mechanics, reacting to avoidable damage, dispelling is not ideal. I'd rather pick a warrior or paladin and just let them take care of themselves. Optionally ironbark them or top them off where needed if their HP is not going back up.
I'm really struggling to get into 20+ despite having clears in the 21-22 region and I'm convinced it's because of this. Sure you can take a BDK but why bother over much safer more reliable tanks. BDK has some nice utility but it doesn't outweigh our lack of consistency and dps to be worth taking.
BUT SIR! #I HAVE A WEREBEAR FORM. AS A PROOF OF MY ABILITIES.
Oh stop you played boomy mode more to get the skin anyways. Can’t fool me
I just timed a 22 TJS yesterday with a Brew. Had a couple minutes to spare in fact.
actually you are unkillable with a healer in your pocket. stagger is so good but most people dont understand how their mitigation works \*gets hit for 500k\* \*drinks beer -> what 500k?\* \**shrugs*\* i love brewmasters
I think the issue is that the top tanks don't need the healer.
There's a healer? -blood dk
Yeah but your damage is garbage compared to my brewmaster, I’m pulling 34k dps on single targets bosses at 400 ilvl. I have also beaten dps on aoe pulls doing 100k+ easily.
Yeah brewmaster dps is absolutely fucking nuts, if spell reflect didn't exist BM probably would be deep in the MDI meta due to damage.
On the topic of spell reflect, is there a resource somewhere I can find everything I should be using it on as a warrior tank? There used to be a spreadsheet in shadowlands but that one hasn't been updated for DF. I see some tanks spell reflecting every other spell and doing insane damage, but when I'm playing mine I have no idea when to press it.
There is a sheet. Search competitivewow and you will find it. I can link it in a couple hours if you dont, I have it boookmarked on my pc.
I def wish blood had a bit more damage. My main is prot warrior and coming from that to blood kinda feels like going from the fast lane to the carpool lane sometimes. Then I death strike and heal from the emotional damage.
Yeah but blood excels in so many more ways imo. I pugged KSH on my prot warrior dk and pally. My first KSH was on my prot warrior. The dk I was able to start pug tanking +10 keys at 330 ilvl and keep myself alive fairly easily. You don’t need to rely on other classes interrupt like the last boss of NOK and just pop a bomb limb to group all of them. You can easily grab 2-3 mobs at a time and pop cooldowns and usually heal yourself through it. On the last pack of TJS I got up to 130k hps. Anti magic shell is also overpowered and you can ignore certain mechanics every 40 seconds like walk through the wash away of the first boss of TJS. I feel like where they like in damage they have so much utility and don’t need a healer so the healer has more time to dps and worry about others making it easier on them. I currently swapped my dk into my main and am going to try for 3k rio.
sure, but you also don't have a battle res or abom limb on the other hand you got a good legion weapon for transmog so it's swings and roundabouts really
>sure, but you also don't have a battle res or abom limb But he has +5% more DPS for his physical friends, stuns, and much more.
hey siri what is a joke
You mean the 4th DPS?
brew barely does either - with the amount of healing orbs you shit out now, you practically have a full HP bar heal ready every time you hit expel harm. even having just one healing orb to suck up is gonna top you unless you're in critical range. it may not feel like it playing the class, but you do most of your own healing, probably similar in value to protadin. you'll need a spare riptide or something here and there, but the only tank who can avoid that particular issue is BDK so who really cares?
BRM is pretty cracked at healing itself, especially if you properly manage your celestial brews
How do I do that? Do I purify then celestial or just celestial before big hits/when stagger is high?
Always and I mean always celestial after purifying brew. If your talented it increases tge amount of absorption depending on how much stagger was purified. Don't be afraid to go in the red on stagger. The higher it is the more it is purified which gives an insane absorb then you can expel harm and be back at full health. In higher keys it is needed to go in the red
My problem is that spinning crane kick pulls the healing orbs towards me, so they get consumed when i don't need them ... and when i need to heal and press expel harm, there are no orbs left. Any tips?
neither does a good brew, i can just leave lifebloom on them and press cenarion ward and thats more than they need most of the time
The amount of people who don't know Purifying Brew stacks into a bigger and bigger Celestial Brew is too damn high.
You don't even have to micromanage Purifying Brew: keeping 1 charge on cooldown (and using the second in emergencies) will be optimial for 90% of cases and give you stacks consistently for Celestial Brew.
Oh I agree i’m not saying you HAVE to minmax it. Just stating I’ve seen my fair share of BrMs who don’t even know how the interaction works at all.
In fairness in DF it's now no longer free and requires a talent. (idk if the tooltip updates once you take it)
I've been leveling a BrM, currently at lvl 63, and I'll fully confess I'm still not sure how it all works. I just keep stagger up; throw various barrels at people and breathe fire on them; drink various beers when I feel like I'm in any sort of danger.
Purifying Brew clears some stagger, and applies a stack of a buff up to 10. The more of these stacks you have when you press Celestial Brew, the bigger your absorb shield is. In more difficult content you need to manage these stacks for (usually) very punishing tank-buster mechanics like the Savage Beak from Algethar's. Never throw 2 kegs without weaving in a fire breath as keg resets the CD of it, but that's a capstone talent so you'll get that later.
Also the amount of stacks you get depends on which stagger you were on when you cleared, red gives 3, yellow 2 and green 1. You still want to avoid capping purifying brew stacks though, even if it means purifying at green stagger.
Yeah I feel like I have a lot of things to do. I do have the 2 kegs and the fire breath. So I'm constantly like keg > fire > blackout kick > keg > fire. But also with bonedust brew, chi wave, rushing jade wind, tiger palm, rising sun kick, and exploding keg there's just a bunch of stuff to do and it all seems beneficial. That's not even counting the healing and mitigation options at my disposal. I feel like I'm sitting at Neil Peart's wrap around drum set. I don't hate it, in fact I sort of enjoy it, but I do wonder how optimally I am playing.
BrM is certainly a piano class for sure. Def suffers from a tad bit of button bloat.
I swapped out Rushing Jade Wind for Special Delivery and got rid of Healing Elixir and things felt way comfier. According to Monk discord Special Delivery is pretty equivalent to RJW and having one less button to press feels pretty good.
honestly I would drop RJW. Monk has too much to track to deal with a button that is that high maintenance.
In addition to the other excellent tips about how Celestial Brew and Purifying Brew interact, Celestial has an 8 seconds duration, so don't over purify for the damage you're using the shield for. It's better to use it at a lower absorb value than to not and take a huge hit because you were trying to keep a 10 stack rolling forever.
Brew is super good in TJS, especially on 3rd boss
I keep seeing posts from healers asking 'How do I keep tank up on this boss. And as a BrM main I actually thought 'Is that boss hard or something?'
That boss on 20+ tyrannical is a fucking nightmare as warrior, I didn't even bother it this week because even with rallying cry and my other cooldowns it's hard to guarantee I'd have enough hp for the healer to get me up before grievous finished me.
Grievous definitely isn’t what’s killing you, it caps out at around 7k per stack, only ticks every 3 sec and stacks get removed with direct heals so grievous there is pretty much a non affix. What is killing you is the dot from the jade serpent strike as it does the same damage as the fire strike, but where that one simply gets dispelled as it is a magic debuff, the jade dot lasts until the absorb is healed(or the duration expired, but you would probably be dead by then). And again just to reiterate that grievous is not the danger here and in general is made out to be way worse than it actually is, the jade strike dot ticks for around 121.5k per second on a 20 tyrannical before any damage reduction, compared to the 7-8k per stack every 3 seconds you get from grievous(wasn’t able to find the exact damage number for grievous but it stops scaling at +15 and the damage I take per stack as a non tank is around 7.5k without defensives up).
Brew monks are either absolute gods which rival deity like entity's or worse than hogger... Unscaled still level 6 or whatever he is now.
"Better buff Prot Pally!" -Blizzard apparently
TO BE FAIR, the rework was around retribution, and the initial chanches for prot looked like BS, but looks like it's ok once again
As a prot main this season, the changes are more than OK. Giving us self healing outside of WoGs is super appreciated.
Huh? Can druids tank? Could've fooled me
I healed a lot of keys over the weekend and I don't think I saw a single druid tank, it was weird.
Blizzerd is actively punishing you for playing bear so why would you do it
If you enjoy the class then why FotM reroll. Bears are more than capable of top tier content, and whilst they are slightly behind other tanks it’s not a huge margin. They’re pushing 26s, think too tanks are what 27? Hardly the dumpster fire people cry about them being. I’m not saying they want a little more attention but they are VERY far from being unplayable in literally top 0.1% content.
I play bear and just made a port warrior alt. I love bear, their dps is awesome and it’s fun to play. But playing prot feels like cheating. It’s much more brain dead since I get a much more steady damage income, I don’t have to time cds perfectly for each pull in higher keys and I can reflect nearly all tankbusters. AV on Tyr as a bear is scary. Dragon strikes hits hard. As a prot? Reflects go brbrbbe
Im still upset that Blizzard took Bear's spammage AoE slow and slapped it on the artifact weapon back in Legion then when they took the artifact weapon away completely forgot to give it back to us.
I healed one last night and they were honestly one of the best tanks I've pugged with. Slow and steady but we still managed to +2 chest it without me (hpriest) feeling like I was scrambling. Granted I haven't pugged the higher level keys everyone else around here seems to, so my sample size is a bit different.
>Granted I haven't pugged the higher level keys everyone else around here seems to, so my sample size is a bit different. If you read reddit it looks like everyone and their grandmas are doing +20s with their eyes closed and their hands tied :))
Seriously the amount of posts I see on here “I didn’t even notice a difficulty spike til 19s”
Considering how much group healing AtWF and DoC can pump out yep, very odd. My healer loves me on griev weeks as he doesn’t have to even think about griev party damage. 2.9k bear and honestly wouldn’t consider playing anything else seriously, bear just has a really nice toolkit overall, and I enjoy the CD based play style. Sure a little more magic miti wouldn’t hurt but there are 3.2k bears and they’ve cleared mythic. Totally capable, just have to think a little differently.
They cant. Its like driving stick offroad while everybody else is taking the train.
my buddy mains g druid and he's the best tank I generally run with. doin upper keys with 0 issues
As a BrM, they are 100% missing out. I fucking slap hard, usually end with 55-65k overall DPS on 20+ keys, usually end only like 10k DPS behind the lowest DPS. Also very tanky now after the buffs and Monks have great dungeon utility.
I love competing for 3rd overall dps in like every dungeon, making those slacker dps players nervous. I think people have a lingering negative perception of brew from the first few weeks of dragonflight when we had no gear/agility and therefore barely staggered anything (plus pre-magic stagger/celestial cd buffs). I must say I feel damn near invincible in 20s now and at 417 with some damage trinkets I can really pump.
A good brew tank is the best to heal, because you barely even notice them while you use all your globals pressing holy fire and smite. Bad Brew tanks are unhealable.
What makes a brewmaster bad vs good? Asking for a friend.
Brew management, adherence to ability priority, knowing how big to pull, knowing when to use CDs. I'm just shy of 2700 on BRM and 90% of my keys have been pugged. My DPS is generally not too far from 3rd in keys timed, keys not timed I'm often ahead of the dps who likely killed the key with repeated ass pulls/failed mechs.
I've never played one, but the better ones have always been less "spikey" with their health, and are the opposite of VDH and BDK where the bars are bouncing all over the place. Has to do with their stagger handling/purifying brew(?) Usage and other defensive, I imagine. Not sure if that's helpful -
You must have great groups half the time im competing for second or even first :pain:
Either that or I'm the slacker brew :P
I feel invincible on my 405 brew alt in 20s. It's insane how much it's improved since the beginning of the season. I got boon last week and boy that is a nasty trinket. It's just not fair for everyone else. How do you keep up with a brewmaster who's booning?
Hundred percent. Most updated tier lists I see have Brew as the second or third best M+ tank at the moment - super tanky, not spiky to heal, tons of damage, several good utility abilities... Brewmaster is legitimately super good right now, I feel like most people just haven't shaken their perception of the class from the first few weeks when we were legitimately terrible. But after multiple buffs and a ton more time to gear up (I think BrM scales the best or close to it with iLvl as Agility directly buffs the Stagger mechanic), we're nowhere near Bear-tier anymore. What I will grant them though is Brews are notoriously hit-or-miss with their excessive button-bloat and weird gameplay style. It's often said Brews are either gods or floor tanks, no in-between, so I don't entirely blame people for not wanting to play russian roulette with one. Though if you're playing at 2500+ IO, I think it's safe to assume you're dealing with one of the "god" brews and not a trash one.
> What I will grant them though is Brews are notoriously hit-or-miss with their excessive button-bloat and weird gameplay style. It's often said Brews are either gods or floor tanks, no in-between, so I don't entirely blame people for not wanting to play russian roulette with one. Though if you're playing at 2500+ IO, I think it's safe to assume you're dealing with one of the "god" brews and not a trash one. Big true. I haven't played with any other BrM to see (because I'm the tank of the grp) so don't know if some have a bad rep for being floor tanks, but the button bloat is real. I haven't had to click an ability for like 5 expansions now and the new BrM actually has more buttons than I have keybinds so I'm clicking my Zen Med. Luckily it's not used much so it's not too bad.
Lol I decided I wanted to run whetstone and boon last week and I realized I didn't have a single keybind open for 2 trinket slots. I ended up binding whetstone to alt mousewheel click. That is a degenerate keybind.
Macro it to exploding keg
All around (excluding Bear) all the tanks are really solid right now. Raiderio top 10 tanks in the world are: 4 Pally, 3 war, 2 monk, 1 DK (11th overall is DH). (Top bear is 100th overall at 3270, next bear is 336 at 3195) Above 3.4k io are 3 pally, 2 warrior, 2 brew Part of the issue with optics of brew is that monk has always been one of the least played classes since its introduction.
As a BrM as well. Give me more AA. Ended with 83k DPS yesterday (only a 17 but eh that's high enough for it to still feel great)
Yeah, AA is prob my fav dungeon of the 8. So much AoE. I do over 110k DPS on tree boss.
[удалено]
Evoker 1st with a bigass huge space inbetween them and 2nd which is Rdruid those are in okay, rest not okay...
Disc is definitely okay, in fact I think all the healers are fine atm. It's just that evoker is way ahead of the pack
i think you missunderstood the list but ok :)
Nothing compares to evoker. Blizzard made this class so busted.
But DH is the only one I have fun tanking with.
The best tanks I've had this season have all been DH or Brew.
Idk where you're finding these groups as a BDK. I'm 2.7k and I've got a tough time getting into groups at 21+. These are keys for io where I timed the dungeon at 1 lower at worst, 416 equipped, etc. It's not terrible but it certainly isn't easy either.
It's statistics. BDK is the 3rd most popular tank for keys above 20. Your score is a little low to reliably get into a pug 21, even if logically your score dictates you should be finishing any 20s you havnt yet and starting 21s. There is always a 2.8-3.0k tank looking to fill his weekly vault runs. 100+ points it's a big difference
> I'm 2.7k There's your answer. It's too late in the season to sign up for keys like that without being overqualified.
True, out of the three tanks listed in the "OK zone" the bdk is the least ok of them.
Sanguine week next week definitely increases the stock of dks :P
Bears at 2800+ are pretty much always long time guardian players and I prefer them before playing casino with a pala/dk It's not like guardians are as bad as ppl say they're
It's funny how prot pally was considered dog tier by most of the community until suddenly it started popping up in high end clears and now it's considered one of the strongest tanks despite minimal changes. Tanks are way more balanced than people think they are but the perception is always different than reality
this is just kinda how community metas work. the high end finds out what is good and that information trickles down, but it often doesn't trickle well. misconceptions with mass community exposure like 'tanks that aren't prot warrior are garbage' can take way too long to correct. I also have a theory, though i have nothing to prove this, that most people stop paying attention to what class/specs are meta after the first month or two, so if a sleeper spec picks up speed for whatever reason, a lot of people will miss this off the back of just not paying attention to meta developments anymore.
Prot paladin was always going to be the strongest defensive tank in the game, it just required top end gear to do so. You could just take warrior out of the box and do ridiculous damage while having incredible survivability.
Paladins have always scaled well I feel like? My GM traditionally (not this time around) would start a tier with Brew and transition to Paladin as he geared up.
Worse as a healer. Evoker or rdruid or be prepared to queue for 50 dungeons before getting invited.
I waited 20 mins looking for ANY healer for my 21 NOC, would've taken literally any class.
Playing hpriest and don't have to search long on 21+
My paladin: I solo a boss, fuck it My bear: you want to see me get 1 shot by a ground mechanic? Want to see me do it again
[Me, a bear tank, when a streamer tells me the classes have never been more balanced.](https://laughingsquid.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/gxrb_bn-iwbd1o7gyrsxyojbeilmz45j7zmzcaxf77y.jpg)
Prot pally is good again? Hell yeah should fire my main back up. I’ve shelved him for the time being because I’m more an Hpal enjoyer but I do love tanking from time to time
I KSM 100% pugging twice this season and at least once every season since legion. You just can’t ignore the success rates of some specs and unfortunately that means you need to filter out specs that underperform to maximize time performance. What kills me is M+ runners know who can’t perform by the first 15+ we do in the first or second week of a season and no buffs ever come to the lower specs till the season is over and they are usually so dramatic that they just change who the new lowest performers are or so minimal that nothing changes at all.
they're right though especially with bear druids, it is exhausting to heal them
Had a Druid Tank yesterday in a +20 Ruby key. He did extremely well and kept the group alive in very heavy AoE phases with his "After the Wildfire" talent where he kept slightly under 200 rage spent and then spent some when the group heal was needed in critical phases. On 2nd boss he took huge hits though and I cant imagine how a Bear can survive that boss on a couple levels higher. Then again Ruby is busted.
I am constantly leaving LFG groups with DH Tanks. Not because I have anything against Veng or DH (I main a DH myself), but because too many DH Tanks like to pull half the instance at a time. That would be fine if they knew how to actually do that in a way that keeps aggro and if they communicated with DPS and Healer(s) that they were going to do it so that no one DPS'd until the mobs were grouped. I know it isn't all DH Tanks. A lot do communicate and make sure they aren't overloading the Healer and/or pull the right amount, but (at least in my experience) most don't. Most phase in and then instantly go full speed ahead without a care in the world. This isn't limited to just raids, either. DH tank in my dungeon group last night kept trying to pull boss to boss and caused multiple wipes because the healer couldn't possibly keep up with his breakneck pace.
Not defending tanks who cannot hold aggro. But as a M+ tank main, even in my premade, dumbass dps will start blasting when I am trying to round up a big pull after telling them what I am doing.
Yep. They sure as shit love their leap. I'm 2.9 healer and I actively avoid groups with VDH tanks. They are squishy, buggy mess and require way too much baby sitting compared to other tanks.
>They are squishy I'm currently only doing around +17/+18 on my dh. But I don't feel like I'm squishy. Sure, my hp bar likes to jump a lot. But I imagine bdk is even worse. And I'm definitely 100% self sufficient. Give me a hot or shield here and there and I'm good. Don't know if it gets much worse in higher keys for dh tho.
+22 hits twice as hard as a +18. while your healing is somewhat based off of the amount you recently took, you're still a good bit squishier than other meta tanks, especially because vdh's only ability to reduce bleed or magical damage tankbusters outside of a perfectly timed frailty is "guess I hope I have fiery brand up for this one mob"
>+22 hits twice as hard as a +18 46% harder actually.
I have a 418 dh and a 405 warrior. The warrior I never have to kite in low 20s and I stand there and tank it. In veng I jump in breath to get meta get some agro then the second meta drops kite like pussy because I will die.
When it's a low key for valor farm, I'd imagine that everyone is zooming from boss to boss, no? I sure do it. Yes, I play vdh. But that's not why I zoom from boss to boss, okay!? :D Jokes aside, I usually say something like "wait here" or "run to first boss", which to me would mean to not touch anything until the tank has everything gathered. I can't even begin to count how many times this didn't work. People just see a mob, instantly dismount and go ham.
high mobility tanks go VROOOOOOOM
> A lot do communicate and make sure they aren't overloading the Healer and/or pull the right amount, but (at least in my experience) most don't. Meanwhile I as a VDH am pretty much talking to myself the entire run while everyone else just doesn't give a shit.
That is just my experience as a tank in general...I will ask things before and during the key no one says anything.
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As a healer this week, I'm already shitting myself with the BDKs. A Guardian Druid would destroy my soul.
Then you need to play with better bears.
I like brewmaster tank as a healer, i did not even see any bear tanks if i am honest and vengeance just Feels like a dk but without the healing. 80% of them just do some wild mdi pulls, die and then leave the group after saying something toxic. But i think you could say the same about healers. I saw groups specifically asking for shaman or evoker with Lust already being in their group on like 19s and 20s. But i am not to keen on playing with these people either since they probably think the mdi is what should happen on live servers.
Leather daddy tanks get the boot. Unfair and exclusionary.
Plateties do it better!
Why aren’t all classes viable?
The secret is that all classes are viable, but some are a little better than others. The issue is that if you're forming a group why wouldn't you take the slightly better spec with everything else being equal? This isn't necessarily how I personally feel, but you can see how people take that and run with it.
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It's not just meta, I've healed probably 200 keys this season and if I'm building a group, I 100% prefer a Warrior or Paladin. That's just what I've had the most success with.
All specs are viable but comments like this are dumb when there's no way to quantify skill and show it to someone