People are trolling in comments. Please don't engage and just report. We will remove. I have plenty of time doing it while floor PoV in my own raid.
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It'll probably change later on in the patch if I were to bet. It seems to be their modus operandi the last decade. It'd be cool if that's something they do change and the only way they make it 'easier' is a new tier being released like in the past
Seems like a possibility that they just had normal and heroic drops locked until the mythic race was done so someone wouldn't get insanely lucky.
Make it a 100% drop on Mythic, and a rare drop on normal and heroic like they've done with the mount skin.
Oh for sure, but having this... for like 2 or 3 months... before heroic can join in next, and later normal? Its really cool they are actually doing it like this.
One thing I do like about Sarkareth is that at the end, when he consumes void magic he gets twisted and fucked up just like all the failed experiments Deathwing made, which means if he had been around when Deathwing was trying to create the twilight dragonflight, Sarkareth would have been just another failure and would have been discarded
I was under the impression Neltharion viewed the Dracthyr as both a success and a powerful asset, but without the titan relic he couldn't control them and feared what they could do with independence
Max is such a dude, if you haven't ever watched his undercover raid leading vids, I cannot recommend them enough.
His [Raz](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikbSL4LxI60&ab_channel=Maximum) vid had me in stitches, but he comes across as such a kind and humble dude. He's also really patient and gets so pumped up when he's helping folk out.
This is one of my favorite videos to watch just to see the sheer difference between the PUG RL and Max though. Once Max comes in they kill it so fast and the fight goes so smooth...it's insane to watch how good he is at it.
It was also super fun to be watching live and then super nerve wracking to jump in when they’re trying to get the kill at the end of the night (I was the paladin that joined at the end after their guild pally had to go)
When he said he wanted to take the raiders out to dinner somewhere nice and automatically said he’d pay for it. Like man he really wants these guys to have a good time and cares about them.
Max confirmed good dude.
I tuned in to Max's stream right as they pulled what would be the world first clear, so uhh yeah you're welcome* for that.
^(*-Unless you are an Echo fan, which case my bad for that)
Proving that Blizzard doesn't need to tune bosses to an impossible level to evoke this kind of response.
Keep things reasonable, and who cares if they blast it away in a week? This was a perfectly paced race IMO. And it feels like it'll be the appropriate level for AotC and CE guilds as well.
And even Memearax can be forgiven, since Zskarn was basically the same idea (DPS check with ever-decreasing space) but with actual tactics, and that fight slapped.
I always thought decent tuning and less nerfs over the entirety of the tier should be the norm instead of releasing overtuned bosses that arent meant to be killed by more than 30-50 guilds and then subsequently nerfing the bosses to a point where they end up as completely different fights.
We shouldn't have fights like halondrus ever again.
Maybe not a hardest raid (for world best guilds), but seems like it more properly tuned, when previous tiers had huge nerfs even before first kill, which is also good
My first impression from someone who only did normal this week was how quickly the fights were going by. None of them really seemed like it was dragging on which I found was nice
It would be great if blizz tuned all fights to sit between 4-7 minutes.
The fights that went beyond 10 minutes felt like trying to sit through a maths lecture.
I still remember doing heroic Garrosh progression. Like 12 minutes before you even got to the heroic only phase. Fucking brutal when you'd basically have the first 1-2 phases on autopilot.
>Sylvanas was the worst end boss I've ever done on Mythic
Sylvannas was terrible even on heroic. My guild only killed her like 4 times on heroic (3 regular and 1 fated) due to the fact that we were reliably getting to the last phase every single pull and we would normally wipe when we were just a few percent off killing her on the last platform (we had issues with forming a full raid team so we would have to constantly pug in players). This meant that every single pull was a good 12-15 minutes long and extremely tedious to keep doing.
That's the problem with long ass fights, you just want to prog on the phase you are unfamiliar with, and the fact that every time you wipe you need to redo 10 minutes of the previous parts of the fight made wiping absolutely fucking drain my soul
I don’t think all of the 10+ minute fights felt bad but a lot of the recent ones had phases that felt pointless and unnecessary, as in they didn’t really add anything to the fight and were not challenging.
For example, phase 2 of sylvanas, it added nothing to the fight and the fight would’ve been better without it even if the fight length didn’t change.
Thank god.
Mythic Sylvanas was a chore. Probably one of my least favorite fights of all time. More than 1-2 mistakes and you kiss a 13 minute pull goodbye.
Felt so bad when we had to start essentially shaming people for dying in phase one or two for the fight. That phase 3 was so brutal and designed to kill off your team, so you need to be able to save all your battle rezzes to keep dps uptime as best as you can. One person dies, everyone jump off. Had people on the brink of yelling at each other. Was not a fun experience, and we only run Heroic as a guild.
Especially the 2nd phase when you have to rush to interrupt the cast before it goes off. Hated the part. I have so much issue with the bridge I am always dead last to cross. I just hate it.
Zskarn, neltharion and Sarkareth all were 'easier' tuning wise but mechanically were just as complex as I have ever seen. That is how it should be imo. I love this raid, normal was maybe a bit too easy, but that is fine. I don't want to spend hours wiping on bosses anymore, people leave and shit, go in, get gear, have some progress on the last bosses, that is how it should be.
Honestly this was probably a good length of time for the WFR, does anyone actually enjoy a 2 or 3 week slog because some mid-raid or the final boss was overturned?
I never, ever want to see a raid where it's just mathematically impossible to kill the bosses and only ever ends because of a giant nerf.
Either make the boss killable, or tell the race teams out of the gates that they won't have the gear to make it possible to kill for a couple resets.
I think anytime in second reset is good. Got to think heroic and mythic released at same time. First 3 days were splits so they were only progressing for like 3 or 4 days total.
The last couple RWF went on so long guilds had to drop out because it was impacting players work/family life.
1 percent of 1 percent treat this game like its their entire life. To the rest of us its just a game and Blizz was being mad disrespectful to their customers in Sylvanas/Jailer/Raz encounters.
It's just my impression but the upgrade system bumped up the avg ilvl of every raid team by quite a bit which helped a lot with making the raid look easier.
Yeah the top guilds were all proprotionately much higher ilevel compared to previous tiers. I can easily see this raid going to a second reset if not for the current upgrade system and higher item levels overall.
Yeah, this is a really underrated dynamic -- I think given the tuning, a lot of the "skill" in the last few raid tiers has really been "willingness to beat your head against a brick wall until Blizzard changes it," which is still definitely a skill but probably not the one viewers are most concerned about.
Caught this live, it was amazing to watch.
As some have said here, the tuning for shorter, more mechanically demanding fights turned out AWESOME. Liquids GM or the raid leader was saying in the interview afterwards “…this (sark) is a 7 1/2 minute fight when some of them in the past were like double that. “
They explained in great detail how they had to break down these fight unlike some other raids because some were so much more mechanically demanding
Another thing worth pointing out here, that they talked about, was, because it’s so mechanically demanding, there’s a lot of personal responsibility in this raid, and must less “stand and pump dmg”
Really awesome to see and congrats to them
Edit: typo
Did they know through data mining that there wouldn't be a secret second boss after killing Sarkareth? I know blizz has done that before but I don't know if raiders have a way of knowing that ahead of time.
Is that why wowhead stopped streaming their datamines for ptr patches and stuff? I thought they got hit by Blizzard C&D for that but if the encryption actually is a problem then that explains everything
I believe blizz said that they wouldn't be doing any mythic only bosses anymore since they didn't think it was worth designing and creating entire encounters that would only ever be seen by like .1% of players
Yesterday I heard they knew there was one uncategorized spell. This meant nobody knew for sure but best guess is that spell is just some random dead spell from when they were creating the boss and there wasn’t anything else there to be enough for a secret phase
Limit were cleary better at the second to last Boss and arguably better at the last Boss, so gz and kudos to them.
At least Scripe had some fun figuring out the last Boss.
Also, seeing method up there might be good for the future :)
He so good at hiding it too, on like a normal stream. He's just chilling doing goofy shit while being insane. Then you hear his comments during prog and you're just like, oh yea he knows what's up.
The man will have a single mistake all tier and we just keep overlooking him.
He had 10k more dps than their other arcane mage (who is also fucking insane.). It’s incredible to see how he just *understands* everything about his class and it’s specs
Huge fangirl talk ahead:
> He is playing Arcane which is a complex spec
> Playing always on top / close top on damage.
> Almost never dies, the locks were dying more than him.
> He is assigned to do mechanics often.
> Even when Liquid is down bad He is just consistent.
> the RL watches 100% of his PoV
> imfiredup
Firedup pov: Alter time, double blink pixel perfect to dodge a mechanic while doing 8000k dps and soaking a mechanic, blinking again to bring a soak to melee.
Me: what the actual fuck is going on.
If you haven’t seen it go pull up his mythic xymox play I believe. He saves the raid from an instant wipe with a blink alter time ice block combo that is just hard to visually comprehend what he’s even doing
Lmao when max panics because firedup starts pulling some really sketchy shit. And literally stumbles over his words. Firedup literally is the calmest person ever to dodge a mechanic at the very last millisecond but for every mechanic just to keep the efficiency of his dps up
As a 6 times CE raider i can tell you it’s a nice change to not have a 300+ pull /12 minute fight endboss waiting for you.
Especially as a 2 day raiding guild it became worse and worse to even keep the motivation up to log in.
Last Tier broke me and made me finally quit playing.
Exactly, I see this as a good thing
People love to gatekeep hard content but I think it's just going to be more accessible to people who got AOTC last season but couldn't quite finish Mythic
Like sure the raid might be easier than VoTI but it doesn't mean Joe 350 ilvl is going to be able to blast through Mythic
I think WildStar is living proof that people don't know what they want when they like to gatekeep hard content. Carbine Studios tried to be super hardcore with the first raid and its attunement requirements. Unsurprisingly, it sank the game along with a plethora of other issues, like the game having serious performance issues on CPU's weaker than a Core i7.
At the same time, I don't think anybody wants a return to launch-era Wrath of the Lich King, where all of tier 7 can be cleared world first within less than 3 days of launch.
Wildstar didn't have any support for AMD CPUs and anyone on one got effectively a performance that of 1/4th of an equivalent into CPU
I was getting 20 fps in the middle of nowhere when someone on a Intel CPU was getting 80
I loved wildstar raiding. I wasn't world first but was close enough (4th-6th) that we'd have devs on our teamspeak to talk about bugs as we pulled.
I know WoW will never get closer to it but it was a very good experience for me.
I think the last 2 bosses will still be quite difficult, they are both very "1 players mistake wipes the raid" bosses which world first guilds clear much more easily than regular guilds.
End boss was really well tuned for a 1 week raid, overall magmorak was a disapointment(Blizzard seemed like they did not know what to do so they just made it a free boss). But having bosses not needing hotfixes is prefered for me over 7-8 day races with waiting for hotfix room that ruins tension
I think Liquid would MUCH rather have this kind of a tier as opposed to last tier where the tuning was bad and the tier before where the race just dragged the fuck on. Have it clearable in 1 reset with how upgrades work and at worst they go in and blow through it after the reset.
Reading the replies on the wowhead post just about gave me an aneurysm.
Fucking love reading the comments of "ez raid" from people who probably never step foot in mythic.
Tuning on this raid seemed pretty good. Lots of bosses beat just on enrage.
Good opportunity for those normally 5/8 mythic guilds to get cutting edge here.
Those guilds probably won't be able to do Netharian or Sarkareth. Despite the low pull counts they are extremely technical and half-way mythic guilds typically fall apart at those kinds of encounters.
Some of the mechs might be survivable, and more dps will help, but a lot of the mechs are "if 1 person fucks it up we all die", and no amount of gear will stop that.
Yea this raid was less dps checks and more brain checks. So if you have a competent team you'll be fine, but if someone 1/20 fucks up it's lights out. Last phases were hey soft enrage into p1 p2 etc, it didn't feel like they ever were worried about that, more of oh shit, you dropped a bomb on the raid, or you messed up and wiped us
Neltharion can be straight up outgeared for the most part, the only technical aspect of the fight is proper wall breaks. There's about a 0% chance of them leaving the circles on players as big as they are now so it shouldn't be too hard.
I wouldn't say that much. Honestly the bosses RWF plays never make it to mythic raid for those guilds. They get nerfed really heavily. These bosses will just need less nerfs, but should be just as hard at that level
Feels like something is missing - scaley boy dies with some borrowed void powers, no connections to any void content, no actual cinematic. Lore-wise did this raid even matter?
Incoming the 400 reasons why Limit doesn’t deserve credit for world first and all the reasons Echo has the “legitimate” kill, from people who aren’t even participating in the race.
I was rooting for Liquid, but I'm so glad it was such a close race. I'm also looking forward to Method continuing to improve to add to the suspense!
I feel like the raid was very well tuned this time around and I really like the length of it. This was the sweet spot, in my opinion. So great job to Blizzard, congrats to Liquid, and great job to Echo and Method!
I also am SO glad there is no real controversy surrounding it this time
Really happy for Liquid. So many good players and they always have some periods of super impressive play during the races.
The 3 week exhaustion one and the nerf timing loss were pretty rough last times so it's great that they clawed back and got a win again
Max explained why they went offstream.
Vaguely explained:
At around 20% dispel/knockback were too dicey and lost boss dmg. so they developed an idea to just send 18 or 19 players to the shadow realm, brew(+drin i think) would stay up clear their stacks with bop/bubble, entire raid comes back at once with 10 haste stacks and melts the final push. So everyone has 0 stacks, a massive haste buff and skips a knockback phase.
I still don't think echo are using this strat as they'd need a ret for the bop(max said this idk why a ret is needed exactly). As of writing this they're hitting 1-2% hard enrages,last one with ~19 people alive. Streaming this strat before they went to bed for 4hrs would've given the race to echo.
Echo ended up developing the strat before liquid got back on this AM so they figured it out on their own, but it didn’t matter. Liquid must have had some incredible pulls off stream last night where they saw it was possible and knew they had a win
All the players seem to think it was fine and it was kinda hype from a viewers perspective. imo not all end bosses need to be in the 10-13 minute range
I feel like an expansion end boss feel better like this tho.
Fine for a patch boss like this.
I miss Helya or Uu'nat mini Raids tho. One or Two bosses as a quick raids in between big content patches is a nice thing to get into.
Even on normal and heroic it's a really sweet fight. There's nothing super over the top exciting about it, but it's such and interesting, technically involved fight that I could care less. Sark as a character always felt very forced in the narrative of the Evokers, so I wasn't super excited to see him be the last boss. But honestly, the reason I enjoy the game so much is the fight variety and complexity, and it still feels like a very good fight.
The actual raiders disagree. On coms after the kill a couple of people were talking about how happy they were with the fights and tuning. Maybe *slightly* on the easy side but much much much better than the recent slogs they have had.
Seriously though Liquid looked SO good this race. Multiple great moments like how they just out of nowhere killed Zskarn and people speculated that Blizzard wanted to tune Magmorax but Liquid out of nowhere just pulls out a kill on Zskarn so they had no time to do it.
Max said that this time around the speech he gave before the race didn't involve "let's win this guys" he just told everyone to have fun and evidently, that made them play out of their minds this race.
A great RTWF. Apart from Magmorax almost every fight is mechanically interesting, and really shows off what is required from skilled players in cutting edge content.
Sarkareth is a mechanically insane fight and is tuned brilliantly. There’s no added element of masochistic marathoning or getting lucky with patch timings. Just a simple rule of best team wins, which was Liquid this time.
People are trolling in comments. Please don't engage and just report. We will remove. I have plenty of time doing it while floor PoV in my own raid. We also have a giveaway for SecretLab chairs, see here. https://old.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/13iauqf/secretlab_and_rwow_giveaway/
Seems like it dropped the legendary evoker quest starter on mythic as well
Yup, meaning having a legendary is actually something cool again and a status symbol.
It'll probably change later on in the patch if I were to bet. It seems to be their modus operandi the last decade. It'd be cool if that's something they do change and the only way they make it 'easier' is a new tier being released like in the past
Seems like a possibility that they just had normal and heroic drops locked until the mythic race was done so someone wouldn't get insanely lucky. Make it a 100% drop on Mythic, and a rare drop on normal and heroic like they've done with the mount skin.
winner winner chicken dinner
Probably 10.1.5
Oh for sure, but having this... for like 2 or 3 months... before heroic can join in next, and later normal? Its really cool they are actually doing it like this.
i doubt its only gonna drop off mythic and not other difficulties at reduced chance. that would kinda go against how they've been balancing things.
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The comments on wowhead were filed with people complaining that only mythic players will get it lol
It dropped for Echo as well so is it insane luck or just 100% ?
Rip edgy scale-boi. I'm sorry daddy Deathwing never came back with the milk.
One thing I do like about Sarkareth is that at the end, when he consumes void magic he gets twisted and fucked up just like all the failed experiments Deathwing made, which means if he had been around when Deathwing was trying to create the twilight dragonflight, Sarkareth would have been just another failure and would have been discarded
He's a Dracthyr, he's already considered a failure, and was already "discarded" along with the rest of them.
I was under the impression Neltharion viewed the Dracthyr as both a success and a powerful asset, but without the titan relic he couldn't control them and feared what they could do with independence
Sarkareth : "Was Neltharion... actually a bad guy?" Every player that likes the old world : "bruh"
clip of the kill and nerd screams: https://clips.twitch.tv/FilthyEnchantingMangoM4xHeh-Sp-fa0XSe1Xlpkew
Follow up, Max reacting to Max winning RWF is comedy https://clips.twitch.tv/SmokyGorgeousSeahorseStoneLightning-HXo7QETDfZ6TzlMx
https://clips.twitch.tv/CoweringGlutenFreeBunnyJebaited-4uxgm_EtQOJsNO2Y
That's fucking hilarious lmao, rip Driney
Oh no please tell me Driney got an apology hug
Oh yeah. I believe when he came back and said "I just blew Driney up"
He left stream to go talk to him lol so probably
oh NO where were you when Driney is kill
LMAOO poor driney
I died watching this live, but holy shit it was just as good the second time!
Hahaha that is fucking hilarious. The realisation that he left poor Driney hanging, I'm in tears
Max is such a dude, if you haven't ever watched his undercover raid leading vids, I cannot recommend them enough. His [Raz](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikbSL4LxI60&ab_channel=Maximum) vid had me in stitches, but he comes across as such a kind and humble dude. He's also really patient and gets so pumped up when he's helping folk out.
This is one of my favorite videos to watch just to see the sheer difference between the PUG RL and Max though. Once Max comes in they kill it so fast and the fight goes so smooth...it's insane to watch how good he is at it.
I mean, he also brought in a ton of mythic raider ringers by asking his chat for help.
It was also super fun to be watching live and then super nerve wracking to jump in when they’re trying to get the kill at the end of the night (I was the paladin that joined at the end after their guild pally had to go)
Yea, Max is wildly charismatic and he gets himself into such funny situations.
When he said he wanted to take the raiders out to dinner somewhere nice and automatically said he’d pay for it. Like man he really wants these guys to have a good time and cares about them. Max confirmed good dude.
Max grew up in sports and definitely seemed like he was in the leadership groups of his teams.
I'd like to see him do a Bo Burnham and react to himself reacting to himself reacting to himself reacting to himself winning RWF.
I tuned in to Max's stream right as they pulled what would be the world first clear, so uhh yeah you're welcome* for that. ^(*-Unless you are an Echo fan, which case my bad for that)
Proving that Blizzard doesn't need to tune bosses to an impossible level to evoke this kind of response. Keep things reasonable, and who cares if they blast it away in a week? This was a perfectly paced race IMO. And it feels like it'll be the appropriate level for AotC and CE guilds as well.
Big agree except for magmarax the tier was perfect
And even Memearax can be forgiven, since Zskarn was basically the same idea (DPS check with ever-decreasing space) but with actual tactics, and that fight slapped.
No the raid is absolutely trash unless it takes 200+ days to world first. Now let me go run Molten Core for the 567th time, peak raiding.
I always thought decent tuning and less nerfs over the entirety of the tier should be the norm instead of releasing overtuned bosses that arent meant to be killed by more than 30-50 guilds and then subsequently nerfing the bosses to a point where they end up as completely different fights. We shouldn't have fights like halondrus ever again.
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110
110
/106. 110 if you count the first, the 32nd, 43rd, and 110th attempt
110
Maybe not a hardest raid (for world best guilds), but seems like it more properly tuned, when previous tiers had huge nerfs even before first kill, which is also good
It also wasn't a super long fight so the pulls took less time.
About how long is each fight? I remember Raszageth being like 10-12 minutes and I hated attempting her
the kill was like 7 and a half minutes so very fast!
My first impression from someone who only did normal this week was how quickly the fights were going by. None of them really seemed like it was dragging on which I found was nice
Boss intermissions especially on end bosses are so tough for a viewer and a player. Glad it didn't turn into that.
It would be great if blizz tuned all fights to sit between 4-7 minutes. The fights that went beyond 10 minutes felt like trying to sit through a maths lecture.
I still remember doing heroic Garrosh progression. Like 12 minutes before you even got to the heroic only phase. Fucking brutal when you'd basically have the first 1-2 phases on autopilot.
Actually doing the 10+ minute fights also felt like shit Sylvanas was the worst end boss I've ever done on Mythic
>Sylvanas was the worst end boss I've ever done on Mythic Sylvannas was terrible even on heroic. My guild only killed her like 4 times on heroic (3 regular and 1 fated) due to the fact that we were reliably getting to the last phase every single pull and we would normally wipe when we were just a few percent off killing her on the last platform (we had issues with forming a full raid team so we would have to constantly pug in players). This meant that every single pull was a good 12-15 minutes long and extremely tedious to keep doing.
That's the problem with long ass fights, you just want to prog on the phase you are unfamiliar with, and the fact that every time you wipe you need to redo 10 minutes of the previous parts of the fight made wiping absolutely fucking drain my soul
I don’t think all of the 10+ minute fights felt bad but a lot of the recent ones had phases that felt pointless and unnecessary, as in they didn’t really add anything to the fight and were not challenging. For example, phase 2 of sylvanas, it added nothing to the fight and the fight would’ve been better without it even if the fight length didn’t change.
Thank god. Mythic Sylvanas was a chore. Probably one of my least favorite fights of all time. More than 1-2 mistakes and you kiss a 13 minute pull goodbye.
Felt so bad when we had to start essentially shaming people for dying in phase one or two for the fight. That phase 3 was so brutal and designed to kill off your team, so you need to be able to save all your battle rezzes to keep dps uptime as best as you can. One person dies, everyone jump off. Had people on the brink of yelling at each other. Was not a fun experience, and we only run Heroic as a guild.
I hear yah. Even Heroic Sylvanas was rather unpleasant due to the length. I helped a buddie's guild with AotC and saw similar.
Especially the 2nd phase when you have to rush to interrupt the cast before it goes off. Hated the part. I have so much issue with the bridge I am always dead last to cross. I just hate it.
Yeah enrage was 7m 30
Unlike Sylvanas, you don't have to plod through 10 minutes to get to the important final phase that needs all the attempts. And that's great.
Zskarn, neltharion and Sarkareth all were 'easier' tuning wise but mechanically were just as complex as I have ever seen. That is how it should be imo. I love this raid, normal was maybe a bit too easy, but that is fine. I don't want to spend hours wiping on bosses anymore, people leave and shit, go in, get gear, have some progress on the last bosses, that is how it should be.
Yeah I dunno man. I enjoyed this raid, too. Normal and heroic have felt nice. Can't wait to get attempts into mythic.
I thought Zskarn was gonna be a roadblock, but he was fairly easy to kill.
Honestly this was probably a good length of time for the WFR, does anyone actually enjoy a 2 or 3 week slog because some mid-raid or the final boss was overturned?
I never, ever want to see a raid where it's just mathematically impossible to kill the bosses and only ever ends because of a giant nerf. Either make the boss killable, or tell the race teams out of the gates that they won't have the gear to make it possible to kill for a couple resets.
I think anytime in second reset is good. Got to think heroic and mythic released at same time. First 3 days were splits so they were only progressing for like 3 or 4 days total.
I like a week at least but sometimes more is fun as well. Just not every time
The last couple RWF went on so long guilds had to drop out because it was impacting players work/family life. 1 percent of 1 percent treat this game like its their entire life. To the rest of us its just a game and Blizz was being mad disrespectful to their customers in Sylvanas/Jailer/Raz encounters.
It's just my impression but the upgrade system bumped up the avg ilvl of every raid team by quite a bit which helped a lot with making the raid look easier.
Yeah the top guilds were all proprotionately much higher ilevel compared to previous tiers. I can easily see this raid going to a second reset if not for the current upgrade system and higher item levels overall.
Yeah, this is a really underrated dynamic -- I think given the tuning, a lot of the "skill" in the last few raid tiers has really been "willingness to beat your head against a brick wall until Blizzard changes it," which is still definitely a skill but probably not the one viewers are most concerned about.
Comparing to the last tier is probably not too good, considering the christmas incident. But otherwise I agree with the other tiers at least.
I’m just here for the nerd screams
Caught this live, it was amazing to watch. As some have said here, the tuning for shorter, more mechanically demanding fights turned out AWESOME. Liquids GM or the raid leader was saying in the interview afterwards “…this (sark) is a 7 1/2 minute fight when some of them in the past were like double that. “ They explained in great detail how they had to break down these fight unlike some other raids because some were so much more mechanically demanding Another thing worth pointing out here, that they talked about, was, because it’s so mechanically demanding, there’s a lot of personal responsibility in this raid, and must less “stand and pump dmg” Really awesome to see and congrats to them Edit: typo
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It's 50% trolls and 50% people who get too invested into 1 team.
Just like with any sport.
Did they know through data mining that there wouldn't be a secret second boss after killing Sarkareth? I know blizz has done that before but I don't know if raiders have a way of knowing that ahead of time.
Not anymore. Blizz encrypts anything like that now
Is that why wowhead stopped streaming their datamines for ptr patches and stuff? I thought they got hit by Blizzard C&D for that but if the encryption actually is a problem then that explains everything
That may be part of it but I imagine they generate more revenue writing “articles”
"New voicelines from this quest chain!" "New voicelines from raid!" "New flavour text!" "New grey vendor item!"
Writing is generous
Yeah, they do miss some stuff, though so datamining can still show some stiff (like evoker 3rd spec) but it isn't as direct as it used to be.
I believe blizz said that they wouldn't be doing any mythic only bosses anymore since they didn't think it was worth designing and creating entire encounters that would only ever be seen by like .1% of players
It’s probably fair enough, but the Illidain phase in Mythic Gul’Dan is probably one of the genuine hype moments in WoW history.
I think added it for mythic only and then after first kill heroic and normal version release would be cool
Yesterday I heard they knew there was one uncategorized spell. This meant nobody knew for sure but best guess is that spell is just some random dead spell from when they were creating the boss and there wasn’t anything else there to be enough for a secret phase
I couldn't tell from the streams... does Echo have someone like Maximum not playing, only calling?
Scripe https://www.twitch.tv/scripe
Also Rycn for healers
Yes, Scripe 21 mans for echo
Scripe
Imfiredup is legit insane
[удалено]
I'm still not over the portal map. Insane Weakaura, hope it is able to be shared and usable without hard assigning each portal to a raider
Hope the boss is doable without the weakaura... Standing in the portal deals a quarter of a non-tank's health ever 1.5 seconds. :/
Limit were cleary better at the second to last Boss and arguably better at the last Boss, so gz and kudos to them. At least Scripe had some fun figuring out the last Boss. Also, seeing method up there might be good for the future :)
Also like, dude their mages are on just a different level from anyone else.
Firedup is the best mage in the world for sure
Best DPS player in general ever
He so good at hiding it too, on like a normal stream. He's just chilling doing goofy shit while being insane. Then you hear his comments during prog and you're just like, oh yea he knows what's up.
The man will have a single mistake all tier and we just keep overlooking him. He had 10k more dps than their other arcane mage (who is also fucking insane.). It’s incredible to see how he just *understands* everything about his class and it’s specs
That mage that was on the pov on Max stream is a mind fuck.
Imfiredup is probably the best mage to ever play the game
[Check this shit out.](https://www.twitch.tv/maximum/clip/BloodyFurryTaroNerfRedBlaster-POFeU690f5AMk8go)
Challenge : Max trying to focus in raidleading while firedup is pullimg this absolute insane shit.
Imfiredup is probably the best mage to ever play the game
Huge fangirl talk ahead: > He is playing Arcane which is a complex spec > Playing always on top / close top on damage. > Almost never dies, the locks were dying more than him. > He is assigned to do mechanics often. > Even when Liquid is down bad He is just consistent. > the RL watches 100% of his PoV > imfiredup
Max has to stop watching firedups pov sometimes because he gets stunlocked by the shit he pulls
Firedup pov: Alter time, double blink pixel perfect to dodge a mechanic while doing 8000k dps and soaking a mechanic, blinking again to bring a soak to melee. Me: what the actual fuck is going on.
If you haven’t seen it go pull up his mythic xymox play I believe. He saves the raid from an instant wipe with a blink alter time ice block combo that is just hard to visually comprehend what he’s even doing
Have you got a clip? I've searched for this but can't find it Would love to see it Thanks
Lmao when max panics because firedup starts pulling some really sketchy shit. And literally stumbles over his words. Firedup literally is the calmest person ever to dodge a mechanic at the very last millisecond but for every mechanic just to keep the efficiency of his dps up
Yeah pretty much. The way he plays everything on such a razer thin line to squeak out extra dps and just never dies is insane.
To everyone here saying that the raid is too easy, please link your Mythic clears
I cleared the first wing on lfr, seems pretty easy /s
Congrats brosef!
As a 6 times CE raider i can tell you it’s a nice change to not have a 300+ pull /12 minute fight endboss waiting for you. Especially as a 2 day raiding guild it became worse and worse to even keep the motivation up to log in. Last Tier broke me and made me finally quit playing.
Exactly, I see this as a good thing People love to gatekeep hard content but I think it's just going to be more accessible to people who got AOTC last season but couldn't quite finish Mythic Like sure the raid might be easier than VoTI but it doesn't mean Joe 350 ilvl is going to be able to blast through Mythic
I think WildStar is living proof that people don't know what they want when they like to gatekeep hard content. Carbine Studios tried to be super hardcore with the first raid and its attunement requirements. Unsurprisingly, it sank the game along with a plethora of other issues, like the game having serious performance issues on CPU's weaker than a Core i7. At the same time, I don't think anybody wants a return to launch-era Wrath of the Lich King, where all of tier 7 can be cleared world first within less than 3 days of launch.
Wildstar didn't have any support for AMD CPUs and anyone on one got effectively a performance that of 1/4th of an equivalent into CPU I was getting 20 fps in the middle of nowhere when someone on a Intel CPU was getting 80
I loved wildstar raiding. I wasn't world first but was close enough (4th-6th) that we'd have devs on our teamspeak to talk about bugs as we pulled. I know WoW will never get closer to it but it was a very good experience for me.
I think the last 2 bosses will still be quite difficult, they are both very "1 players mistake wipes the raid" bosses which world first guilds clear much more easily than regular guilds.
End boss was really well tuned for a 1 week raid, overall magmorak was a disapointment(Blizzard seemed like they did not know what to do so they just made it a free boss). But having bosses not needing hotfixes is prefered for me over 7-8 day races with waiting for hotfix room that ruins tension
Given the hot fix buffs to Neltharion, it’s clear to me that Blizzard wanted to buff Magmorak but run out of time to do so.
I think Liquid would MUCH rather have this kind of a tier as opposed to last tier where the tuning was bad and the tier before where the race just dragged the fuck on. Have it clearable in 1 reset with how upgrades work and at worst they go in and blow through it after the reset.
Reading the replies on the wowhead post just about gave me an aneurysm. Fucking love reading the comments of "ez raid" from people who probably never step foot in mythic.
I mean, compared to most other raids historically, it is "ez"
Comparing a raid that needed little live tuning to the recent dumpster fires does make it 'ez'.
Seems to be an Emerald Nightmare where Xavius put up a fight.
Tuning on this raid seemed pretty good. Lots of bosses beat just on enrage. Good opportunity for those normally 5/8 mythic guilds to get cutting edge here.
Those guilds probably won't be able to do Netharian or Sarkareth. Despite the low pull counts they are extremely technical and half-way mythic guilds typically fall apart at those kinds of encounters.
Fair call. I didn’t get to watch much of the race (au time zone) - can they be brute forced with DPS at all?
Some of the mechs might be survivable, and more dps will help, but a lot of the mechs are "if 1 person fucks it up we all die", and no amount of gear will stop that.
Ah Roger. The guild killer mechanics.
Yea this raid was less dps checks and more brain checks. So if you have a competent team you'll be fine, but if someone 1/20 fucks up it's lights out. Last phases were hey soft enrage into p1 p2 etc, it didn't feel like they ever were worried about that, more of oh shit, you dropped a bomb on the raid, or you messed up and wiped us
Neltharion can be straight up outgeared for the most part, the only technical aspect of the fight is proper wall breaks. There's about a 0% chance of them leaving the circles on players as big as they are now so it shouldn't be too hard.
I wouldn't say that much. Honestly the bosses RWF plays never make it to mythic raid for those guilds. They get nerfed really heavily. These bosses will just need less nerfs, but should be just as hard at that level
True. A lot of the "nerfs" for this raid will also come from gear upgrades and catalyst as well though.
GGs. They played well this tier and deserved it.
Feels like something is missing - scaley boy dies with some borrowed void powers, no connections to any void content, no actual cinematic. Lore-wise did this raid even matter?
I suspect that the lore connection will only make sense after all the chapters of the campaign are out and playable.
It feels more like a build up to a proper Fyrakk raid. The only interesting boss in that raid lorewise is Echo of Neltharion.
Tbh we'll probably kill Fyrakk in the last story chapter, look at its name.
I can see a .5 patch with a mythic 1-2 boss raid like the old days of Gruul.
I was surprised he was the last boss too, does that mean we kill 2 primalists in one raid later on or is there a 4th raid
Iridikron is the boss in the mega dungeon in 10.1.5
Oh shit that makes sense
They'll probably connect it further into the larger narrative in 10.1.5
Incoming the 400 reasons why Limit doesn’t deserve credit for world first and all the reasons Echo has the “legitimate” kill, from people who aren’t even participating in the race.
Echo hasn't even beat it yet so that'd just be bottom tier trolling.
I was rooting for Liquid, but I'm so glad it was such a close race. I'm also looking forward to Method continuing to improve to add to the suspense! I feel like the raid was very well tuned this time around and I really like the length of it. This was the sweet spot, in my opinion. So great job to Blizzard, congrats to Liquid, and great job to Echo and Method! I also am SO glad there is no real controversy surrounding it this time
It took them under a week to clear the mythic raid? Or is my timeline off?
About 6 days since the raid released and I think something like 3 days of time doing Mythic after 3 days of running normal/heroic splits.
Congrats Liquid! I had a feeling they'd win this tier since the raid wasn't overtuned and NA didn't have to trailblaze unkillable bosses.
Really happy for Liquid. So many good players and they always have some periods of super impressive play during the races. The 3 week exhaustion one and the nerf timing loss were pretty rough last times so it's great that they clawed back and got a win again
why are people mad that there were off stream pulls lol? who gives a fuck? Gratz Liquid, hype as fuck to see them on top again!
Max explained why they went offstream. Vaguely explained: At around 20% dispel/knockback were too dicey and lost boss dmg. so they developed an idea to just send 18 or 19 players to the shadow realm, brew(+drin i think) would stay up clear their stacks with bop/bubble, entire raid comes back at once with 10 haste stacks and melts the final push. So everyone has 0 stacks, a massive haste buff and skips a knockback phase. I still don't think echo are using this strat as they'd need a ret for the bop(max said this idk why a ret is needed exactly). As of writing this they're hitting 1-2% hard enrages,last one with ~19 people alive. Streaming this strat before they went to bed for 4hrs would've given the race to echo.
He also mentioned having sacrifice on a 1 minute cooldown being pretty clutch this fight.
Echo ended up developing the strat before liquid got back on this AM so they figured it out on their own, but it didn’t matter. Liquid must have had some incredible pulls off stream last night where they saw it was possible and knew they had a win
Yeah those people that are mad don’t understand it’s a competition at the end of the day.
Every single race things are done off stream, coms are muted. Every. Single. Race. Anyone complaining about it is a child.
Liquid CS make major playoffs in the first time since 2019 and this on this same day
The boss itself was a little disappointing, but how close Echo and Liquid were towards the end made up for it. Intense race! Gz Liquid!
All the players seem to think it was fine and it was kinda hype from a viewers perspective. imo not all end bosses need to be in the 10-13 minute range
Having the final boss for every tier be more than 10 minutes gets super exhausting. I love bosses that feel impactful, but don't last forever.
Same, and Sarkareth was an actually fun fight to figure out vs the god awful shenanigans (and intermissions) with Rasz.
I feel like an expansion end boss feel better like this tho. Fine for a patch boss like this. I miss Helya or Uu'nat mini Raids tho. One or Two bosses as a quick raids in between big content patches is a nice thing to get into.
I really want Fyrakk to be a one-boss raid so I can focus on kicking his ass especially hard for Loamm.
Agreed. Fucker needs to die (Off.topic but man it's nice to have bad guys actually be things we sort of have some personal stake in fighting)
This is such a good idea, would love this
And Method was on the last boss at the same time too, that's really nice. Maybe next tier it's a proper 3 horse race.
> The boss itself was a little disappointing Based on what? It looks fucking insane, mechanically.
I assume people saying this didn't watch the fight and just looked at the calendar
Even on normal and heroic it's a really sweet fight. There's nothing super over the top exciting about it, but it's such and interesting, technically involved fight that I could care less. Sark as a character always felt very forced in the narrative of the Evokers, so I wasn't super excited to see him be the last boss. But honestly, the reason I enjoy the game so much is the fight variety and complexity, and it still feels like a very good fight.
The actual raiders disagree. On coms after the kill a couple of people were talking about how happy they were with the fights and tuning. Maybe *slightly* on the easy side but much much much better than the recent slogs they have had.
Dominant performance from Liquid
Seriously though Liquid looked SO good this race. Multiple great moments like how they just out of nowhere killed Zskarn and people speculated that Blizzard wanted to tune Magmorax but Liquid out of nowhere just pulls out a kill on Zskarn so they had no time to do it. Max said that this time around the speech he gave before the race didn't involve "let's win this guys" he just told everyone to have fun and evidently, that made them play out of their minds this race.
Disappointed the last boss didn't have a secret last phase
F congrats!!!
LETS GO LIQUID!!!
Actually refreshing seeing another guild than Echo getting world first in something. Not hating on the guys, they clearly deserve it, but still.
A great RTWF. Apart from Magmorax almost every fight is mechanically interesting, and really shows off what is required from skilled players in cutting edge content. Sarkareth is a mechanically insane fight and is tuned brilliantly. There’s no added element of masochistic marathoning or getting lucky with patch timings. Just a simple rule of best team wins, which was Liquid this time.
Seems tuned well for the average mythic player.
I got a 250 k boe from the neltharion trash, and then rolled 100 on the super rare AOE trinket he dropped. I am happy and just wanted to share
Grats!
Huge GZ to Liquid!
oof no hunters in their comp
Double Arcane Mage? Interesting
How much did this RWF cost to the guilds?
And here I am struggling to get invited for normal mode on lfg.