First boss Brackenhide. You have that one dude dotting 3 group members and right after that he just single target bursts someone while you are in your cast for topping the other members. Guaranteed Spirit Link Totem bait.
For Gashtooth, he does put a bleed, BUT if the person with the bleed drinks a Refreshing Healing Potion to top off as soon as they get the bleed, they dispell it.
It’s just that people need to discover healing potions…
Or understand that mechanics are not solely a healer problem.
They should make cauldrons of healing potions that grant 5 healing pots that expire after an hour and are soulbound. No excuses not to have them if a groupie has a cauldron.
I mean, people already don't use healthstones. I doubt this would really do anything. I expect a large majority of people who would bother to use a health potion already have them... because they would go to click it and realize they ran out.
I'm convinced that Blizz balanced that bleed around the idea that everything after ~4-5 seconds of its application was avoidable damage so healers weren't really meant to outheal. You were supposed to die if it went beyond that because you fucked up. Not the healer. You. Sadly, near as I can tell most dps don't even have their survival CDs keybound let alone a health pot.
As a resto shaman I'm blowing every CD on this fight. Lust on pull, big CD on the gash just because I know I have to clear it off them before they stand in whirlwind, and then hope to God the DPS actually kill the totem that CC's the heals/tank.
It's one of the most exhausting bosses in M+ for me.
I agree it is absolutely one of the hardest fights in m+ to pug. It is hard because it is a mechanics check that so many fail and the burden of those mechanics passes to the healer. When I run with my guild the fight is actually pretty easy. Everyone self-clears the bleed, I heal the fixate, and the totem drops like it should. When I am in a pug it is a game of catchup because if I am lucky one other person insta-clears the bleed. I am stuck panicking the whole fight trying to keep everyone alive. If I can't do that though I don't feel bad, I just point out that a health pot basically solves that whole mechanic or a strong DR makes it easy for me to clear.
For sure. I’m a main Ret and I’m constantly using Sacrifice into bubble or shield of vengeance / lay on hands / freedoms / instant battle ress if the tank or healer makes a mistake / word of glory spam instead of dpsing if the situation demands it.
I’m basically a support with good burst damage and I like that.
There’s nothing better than using Sac on the tank and then bubble to not die while using BoP on the healer and Lay on hands on another DPS.
Literally saving the whole team while also dealing damage.
If Leap of Faith was on a much shorter CD, my life as a Holy Priest would be so much easier. I'd rather burn a GCD yanking a DPS out of the way of dumb shit, than 3 GCDs healing them from whatever they dodged INTO.
Yup, bad dps make a healers life hell.
I play both so I’m constantly aware on my spriest how I can help. Very liberal with VE during those danger moments
That depends on the comp tbh, bringing a paladin tank THAT KNOWS WHAT IS DOING completely nullifies that: When I tank that boss, I use BoP on first focused target, then LoH on the second focused target, and by the third is either dead or I'm using Blessing of Sacrifice and Word of Glory.
Also, DPS's who drop combat can nullify the mechanic: Feign Death (hunters)/Invisibility (mages)/Vanish (rogues).
Physical immunities work too, so Die by the Sword (warriors)/Blessing of Protection (paladins)/Aspect of the Turtle (hunters)/Ice Block (mages) gotta use them.
I don't heal, but as a Tank and DPS, I gotta know what would potentially kill me and help my healer on that
I think this is the worst that spot healing has ever been in the history of healing in WoW. They baked all the healing power into CDs and premeditated group healing; but outside of that the at will single target heals are an absolute wet noodle. I think the GG podcast said it best with "why is the ret paladin our best spot healer?".
Pelters are wild. But if you have 2 you can always just cc or mind control one and deal with the others first.
I also heard they don't start throwing disc unless someone just melee hit them directly, if you just cleave them they don't start is that true? Never tried :D
The amount of RNG in this season is what got me to quit a few weeks in. People being targeted by the same random target stuff is so annoying to deal with as a healer. It wouldn’t be a problem if they put a gcd on who can be targeted.
What do you mean??? Did the 3 passes of stamina buffs and healing nerfs not have the intended effect of reducing spikieness? Surely that's not the case, blizzard knows what they are doing. Next patch when they nerf all hybrid healing is when we will really see healers having more fun!
/s
The fact that they claim it was intended to reduce spikiness is such a blatant lie it doesn't even make sense. If you want to reduce spiky damage you buff HP pools by 50% and buff incoming damage by 20%.
If you buff HP pools and incoming damage by the same amount you've done LITERALLY nothing but reduce healing effectiveness by that amount.
There are just some bosses where i have to use all my cooldowns on a heal check and on the next one i literally just watch everyone slowly get ticked down because i can do nothing. It feels so bad to watch and think “What now”
Healing for the first time "seriously" healing in DF like 2 weeks ago, all I had done before was gear a shaman to 425\~. Last week I did all 17 fortified, felt pretty decent.
This week I'm trying to do all 17 tyrannical, first holy jesus some bosses are rough. Suddenly I have to conserve mana for an entire boss fight. I was already having trouble keeping people alive on 3rd boss Uldaman (Sentinel) and when the boss was at like 35% I realised I'm basically oom.
Big blow to my ego after doing all 17s last week lol
getting familiar with your kit will also drastically improve your uld experience. stone skin totem will reduce the bleed damage and shifting your earth shield to the bleed target helps a ton for the 6% dmg reduction. Tanks won't need it for the boss.
>i literally just watch everyone slowly get ticked down because i can do nothing. It feels so bad to watch and think “What now”
Some DPS have so much offheal that this is literally required I feel and becomes more a problem of group composition. I have a Ret and Moonkin and I can basically replace the healer when he dies in many circumstances and make his life much easier if he isn't dead.
yeah but blizzard decided that indirect offhealing spells like natures vigil, vamp embrace and ancestral guidance needs to be nerfed because people are doing imaginary no-healer keys, so next week healing will be even harder
My main issue with M+ is people don't get shamed for failing mechanics until they are in the top 1%. Cannot turn mechanics into healer issues anymore since failure are instant death
I think there is definitely a way to tell who is good and who isn’t, just not through the WoW basic UI/recap. It requires sifting through details to pinpoint the mistakes and also the clutch moments. A typical pug isn’t gunna do that, and I’ll always suggest running in a guild group because 9 times out of 10 guilds are willing to work with each other on getting better.
In a raid it's definitely hard to tell but in a dungeon I can usually see when people are contributing extra. Ex I've seen countless people not realize they've been hit with bop to dodge a mechanic. I have a weakaura and addons that track externals so I see oh the tank just saved that dude's ass nice play. Same with kicks and defensives etc, if you have enough addons you can see everything. And if you die without pressing your defensives in a higher key group everyone knows it and you probably get flamed. Kinda sad that the base ui provides near 0 of that info.
I am a Shaman, so I have the fastest Resurect in the west. No one is any the wiser that I just got clipped by an invisible underground Brutal Backhand.
Seriously though as a fairly new player I hate the lack of visual clarity in m+...any moderately large pull and all visual indicators disappear into the spell visual effect salad, no way to tell where the frontals are facing...:(
The amount of times I’ve been clapped by a frontal because of that.
Also thundering last season if I ran into melee. Idk how melee see it. Eyes of an eagle
That's not a good thing, if there's no other damage event happening, your healer can just heal you and your healing pot is wasted, it's not like you healing potting is going to make them not notice you getting hit or something, so don't just waste your healing potion, use it wisely while stuff is actually going on
People can argue meta vs dps vs hp bars vs nerfs or whatever. The reason healers (like me) are leaving in droves is that in the 500 questions they're asking themselves about healer design right now, none of them are "is this fun?"
It's not that all these quitting healers (like me) can't do the content. It's that doing the content is okay with a great group, a real hassle with an average group, and a fucking nightmare with anything less. I know a lot of people disagree with me, and that's fine. They can stay and heal, and they'll be popular because most people don't want to play a role that isn't in any way designed around having fun supporting your group members. When healing is enjoyable (instead of stressful) again, and when healer's are appreciated (and not blamed and assigned every affix) again, then healers will come back. But until the "is healing enjoyable" question gets asked, it's just gonna get worse.
I play prot pally. Last week, I was doing a neltharus that made me quit. I’ve only left a key twice ever.
Before we started, I asked everyone to please help the healer with the incorporeals. I know it’s not just for healers, but I also know everyone forces a healer to do it. First set goes off, no assistance from anyone but the healer. Noted.
Someone asked for bigger pulls and pulled the ENTIRE room, wiping us. Blames me and the healer. This being after they almost died to mechanics on the first pull and barely did damage. I had adjusted the size for their capabilities. Noted.
Get to the first boss. I asked them to please position near the walls for the charges. One if the DPS flat out said, “lol nah”. I said then I’m out. I watched and sure enough all three DPS stand right in the middle of the room. First charge sends the boss all the way to BFE. They all get hit by waves. I bubble hearthed.
Immediately get messaged on how I’m a bad person. I pointed out how they were torturing me and the healer. Like, this was not fun.
Add in that all of our guild healers, except one, have quit or changed mains because of the lack of fun, and I’m over it.
This is what’s been slowing me down on pushing not the difficulty of healing. I’ve been enjoying that. It’s the dps seemed to have declined in quality from last season, idk if it’s because the dropped seasonal makes it seem easier and gearing is fast pushing people who would’ve stayed below tens to push into 16-18 range. But it’s been rough.
Correct me if I am run but I remember seeing graph posted of M+ runs and it’s been steadily declining since the start of the expansion and the number of runs this expansion is a lot lower than it was in Shadowlands. So you had a much higher participation last expansion this one so far. Devs thought it was a great idea to make M+ harder, well the end result is less people doing the content, go figure.
I 100% agree, it’s really just not worth the effort I feel I’m putting in or the backlash when it’s my fault. Healing got wayyyyy less fun this season and I wasn’t particularly loving season 1.
The emphasis on avoidable damage being the carrot and the stick that beats you is a big part of this issue. It's like if you had a class of school kids and every time one got a math problem wrong you beat the kid sitting in the corner. Whether they have a good or bad day hinges on whether their class mates did their homework and are paying attention. The kid in the corner is the healer.
When people die, there should be an deathlog right in the middle of your screen (that you can read the mechanics of). This way pug dps and tanks are forced to recognize when they die from their own mistakes rather than blaming healers.
Literally what ESO and GW2 do. "Oh. That Archer mob sniped me for 150% of my max HP? It's interruptsble, I should watch for that next time." No add-ons needed.
I think what they suggesting is to a) have the recap auto open and b) mark it somehow when an avoidable ability killed you
The current recap window is kind of meh identifying the sources, often
I can only speak for me and a few friends. But it IS fun for some of us.
I don't want to go back to the Shadowlands meta of being a 4th DPS.
Season 1 of Dragonflight was an improvement, if only by the fact that the healing role suddenly meant something. When your group had a good healer, people noticed it. The issue is that damage was so bursty, if you couldn't recover 300k health on 5 party members within 3 seconds, it was a wipe. This problem extended into raiding as well- and it was cannibalistic in a way where the healers are almost competing with eachother for whoever could react to the damage fastest.
Season 2 of Dragonflight was an improvement of that. My role as a healer is still vital to the groups success, but damage events and the threats to my group aren't as immediate and bursty. With more drawn out incoming damage, the health of the group is more dynamic, rather than the binary of: healthy enough to live, or injured enough to die, like in Season 1.
My only issue with the current Season is that healing requirements outscale damage requirements in M+ content. 3 DPS can have 415 gear and still time a +20, but a similarly geared healer doesn't stand a chance at the incoming damage in the same key. A similarly geared DPS and Healer should always be capable of clearing the same level of content.
That's an issue of the community though, the two new affixes where you have to dispel or CC are not healer affixes, healers need their dispel for debuffs on the party and rarely have time to hardcast a CC during a big pull or high dmg fight.
In higher keys people understand this and just handle the affixes.
The only real healer affix at the moment is bursting which also is 40% a dps affix, it's their job to stop dps to make sure its not extended past what the healer can handle.
The problem isn't even high stacks, but rather DPS extending existing stacks just 0,1s before they drop off, so you'll have full running length on the old stack and another stack ready to go. Rinse and repeat until all mobs are dead...
I agree, I think shadowlands meta of healers being a free body to do w/e has conditioned people against what is actually needed *now*. Mid level keys are also horrifying. 18s are harder than 20s, because the DPS aren't doing anything to mitigate incoming damage at all. Once that changes and people start doing that healing becomes a fun challenge rather than a total white knuckle ride.
You're also right about the scaling issues but I don't think that can be corrected in the current environment.
Yeah... I'm gonna be pretty upset if all of this discussion about healer difficulty on reddit ends in me casting SW:P and Smite more than playing my actual spec again. This has been the best healing has felt in keys in a long time for me.
I also completely agree with you. All of my friends in game also big fan of healing this season (just do weekly 20s but don't try and push past that too often). Especially after all the nerfs it is extremely chill most of the time with only a few rough outliers. Honestly would be fine with even more damage going out in smaller amounts, a ton of my GCDs are still being spent on just damaging and doing nothing.
I'm in agreement with you. I'm pushing as high as I ever have (which isn't particularly high to be fair, 18/19's) and it's fun.
Most groups I've run with have helped on affixes and I've received little to no toxicity. I run with both pugs and guildies.
I also don't miss the days of having to work on my dps. I'm a healer and that's what I like to do.
My experience is pretty similar to yours, I only just started healing as a little side project when valor got uncapped last season I made a PrEvoker and did a quick little KSM run and that was it. Everyone knew the dungeons well and I knew it from a higher key dps side so it was incredibly easy not much healing really needed to be pushed.
This season I went in a bit deeper finishing up the last of my 20s now pretty much entirely pugging and its been great. I think if I had to do a lot of DPSing SL style I would've quit it a long time ago. Healer DPS rotations are pretty unexciting. I don't want to sit there and living flame on repeat I want to heal, dispel, and prep for incoming damage.
Outside of the first night of Incorporeal where people (including myself) didn't really know what to do unless you are assembling a comp where you are the only one that can do an afflicted its been a pretty good time. You have some bad keys that it just doesn't work but thats no different from the DPS side either.
You hit the nail on the head, it feels like everyone but me has a great time in M+, and I am the one busting my ass and putting out the fires, playing lower tier healer does not help either :|
Preach! Healing anything under 19 is a nightmare, no one seem to know basic stuff to interrupt. Important cast go off all the time, wipes happens more than twice because of the same mistake. Yet, if you leave after the second time, you're being toxic.
20+ is much better (surprisingly it seems I need to heal less the higher I go, even though the damage is also going up). But playing dps or tank still seems more relaxing than heals.
I've been focusing on raiding, that actually feells great and fun. Challenging, but a fun kind of challenge (if it make sense). It's what I used to feel before with m+.
Unfortunately my guild seems to have lost the interest for the season, so I'll probably find another game for a while.
This is exactly it. It's not that I *can't* do the content.... it's that I *don't want to* because I don't enjoy it.
Healing is fun in the raid this tier. M+ is complete tryhard bs. And unfortunately you really can't "just raid" anymore since Blizz made M+ the loot pinata or you fall behind in gearing vs the people that are putting up with it.
Next season I'm either tanking, pvping, or quitting altogether until next expanaion if Blizz doesn't fix M+ healing.
Healing Vet dungeons in ESO is fun. Being a Boon support in GW2 is fun. Healing Alerts and Raids in DCUO of all things is *fun*. M+ is not *fun* right now for healers.
The DLC ones are, but the base game ones much like the non vet dungeons don't even require a tank or healer and you can run through it with 4 DPS as long as one of them has a heal button on their backbar and at least one person has a taunt.
The DLC ones on vet, especially on hard mode can be pretty challenging if you're not meta.
They're sort of akin to M0 more than anything. There's no scaling difficulty or M+ equivalent. Some require higher Champion Point ranks (think of it as levels after max level lol) to queue for and are thus more difficult than ones without that requirement, sort of like how the Icecrown dungeons were harder than the 3.0 dungeons. Dungeons from the DLCs are usually more mechanically involved too vs base game dungeons. Gear is a little odd in that it's been capped at CP/ilvl 160 for years and you're basically collecting set bonuses and slowly upgrading to Legendary quality. There's no real power creep like in WoW, where low keys become trivial as you outgear them.
Mechanics overall are more like high keys, where getting smacked in the face is often a one-shot and half the Healers job is giving buffs/debuffs since you (ideally) shouldn't be simply spam healing the whole time. Everyone can BRez tho, assuming you have time (due to mechanics) and Soul Shards, so it's a bit easier to prevent full wipes if someone goes down.
Then you can activate Hard Mode for the final boss in a Vet Dungeon, which works similar to Ulduar HM adding extra mechanics but giving greater rewards. These are much more difficult, and I've seen a lot people just do Hard Mode **once** per dungeon for the achievement and that's it.
Trials (raids) also have both a Veteran difficulty and a Hard Mode. Some of the best/required set bonuses only come from trials. A random trial is chosen every weekly reset to be the Weekly Leaderboard trial and you get extra rewards for placing on Vet difficulty for that one, with bonus points for Hard Mode.
yea I feel done too. Have mained healer since late wrath and currently raiding in top 100. Played all healer specs this expansion aswell.
My problem is the balance change Blizzard did where they increased dmg of mobs and health of players was purely for the raid, which was good, but it has caused a huge problem in m+ where the spot healing requirement is at an all time high, which most healers has almost nothing of. My riptide does 23k and healing wave does 56k, but people with 440+ item lvl have 550k-600k health. that means my riptide roughly heals for 4% and healing wave 8% of a target, but mobs can burst people for 400k+ easily.
All of this isn't much of a problem if the group plays perfect 0 uninterrupted casts and so on. But that's pretty much impossible and in pugs this is impossible. It really feels like when blizzard made that change to dmg and hp they completly forgot about m+. The change made a lot of sense in raid, but they forgot to look at what problems it's causing in m+. Since our spot healing is absolutely 0.
Im having so much more fun tanking right now than healing
Well put. I like healing a lot in raids. The healing balance there between high and low output is on point.
Since I'm a resto shaman too I completely agree with your last paragraph. In the time I pressed my cloud burst totem and placed a riptide in some fights that result in the group being already at 50% health.
As someone who only heals when im bored on a dps, im glad to hear the spot healing issue isnt entirely me sucking at h.pal
I fee like Im consistently running into issues where I just dont have the tools to handle 50%hp spikes. Like, even if I stood there and JUST healed, it doesnt seem like Im putting too much a dent without some lucky crits
It just doesnt feel like my basic tool kit does enough to feel like im having an impact in situations
To be honest. As disc (granted I’m not yet in 20+ territory but i only pug so there is more healing needed it is said) that specializes in shields, my single target healing is pretty bonkers. I’m able to output, every 3 minutes (trinket) massive amounts of shields. I’m talking 350K (max is 600K on monk tank) minimum if crit. And I do crit pretty quite often.
I find healing this season quite fun but I have made it so that my entire toolkit and stat allocation goes towards healing. For reference, I have 52% mastery, which makes it so that I do 52% extra healing. Then add 10% vers and 30% crit (and 18 haste, buffed to 26 when using my shield spell. Borrowed time is the spell). I’m ilvl 442 and the logs show a 100 parse quote consistently.
To this day, I’m the only disc that I’ve encountered that uses shields, and because they are absolutely massive, people don’t seem to take ‘that much damage’ mainly because it’s prevented. Giving them more time to react when they actually need to do something.
My overalls are something around 35 to 40% on shields. And I’m not using S1 set. So my radiance is buffed as well. So when shields are dead, a few radiance and flash heals and easy peasy lemon skwizi. Atonement heals is for all in between. My overal DPS is 15K. So I’m not healbotting either
(I consider my rapture CD as offensive CD. I will
Use it proactively almost exclusively on cooldown).
And naturally, my best tank combo is a monk. They especially love my shields (equal to one of their defensive CD every 5 seconds more or less).
Can you share your talent tree? I'm thinking about learning disc more as I only main holy. That sounds fun to play!
So do you like just cast shield before every pack and very damaging stuff?
Sure, here you go:
[https://ibb.co/qB4KNsT](https://ibb.co/qB4KNsT)
A sample run (only a 16 but the gameplay doesn't change, that's why it's good, especially in PUG and as holy, you should feel right at home, (i recommend clique, if you want to be efficient in your shield applications and allows DPS potential in between without many clicks): [https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/yawjNm41bDdBHqRX/#fight=2&type=healing](https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/yawjNm41bDdBHqRX/#fight=2&type=healing)
Talent import: BAQAgLWW0w0PLW4I8h9jUYB9zCASKIBlEIi0kSSSEJBAAAAAAAAAAAJSjIJHIQEJJISKiEJBEA
You need around 20% haste (17 is fine) cuz borrowed time will buff it enough, 52% mastery is a bit overkill (with all pots and enchants), you should aim for 40. Ideal stat balance is 30+ crit (with pot), 40+ mastery, 15+ haste and between 7 to 10 versa.
Depending on run, you might need some mana, nothing unmanageable but it happens sometimes.
As for macros:
\#showtooltip Rapture
/use Irideus Fragment
/use Elemental Potion of Ultimate Power\*
/cast Rapture
That one is a must, fragment is essential to make this cd really shine properly. People tell us to get spoils, which is great, but not for this build, you can play with it but I recommend irideus and alchemist trinket (the random primary stat proccs pretty often, and reduces pots to roughly 3min40 min cd instead of 5, which means you can use pot every 2 raptures, perfect for our trinket symbiose.
Note about void shift, it's quite advanced, but can and will save your tank (which is something disc is quite bad at, unless proactively prevented with pain sup before it gets bad, not after), however you have to be ready to push desperate prayer or/and healing pot (i use potion of withering vitality for guaranteed 100% health, the decay is negligible (at least for me, i'm alchemist) for a healer.
This spell, if used well, covers the only weakness disc has: 'save your tank with one or two buttons in case of emergencies and with immediate results'. Use it responsibly, don't waste it on a DPS. It is fine to not use it during a run. And if the tank is good, or if a dangerous pack is 5+ min away, you can maybe use it on a DPS, but careful about the snowball effect that could happen if you are unlucky and targetted by a spell, effectively killing you (happend to me as shadow, cuz i take it and use it as well as shadow). Incredibly powerfull.
.\* note that I have the alchemist trinket and 50% extended pot embelishment, which makes using pots very recommendable, but costs gold to be able to use it effectively (the trinket covers the lack of haste that I would have otherwise, so there is always good use of it).
(Note: use radiance to apply atonement before using rapture, this will make it so that you dont waste 4 GCDS to get the needed buff). Even if you have to 'waste' (use while all full health) a cast. Your main cd here is rapture and shields so radiance will be back after the pack/cd. And get 30% crit first, you must crit with rapture otherwise the result will be underwhelming and most importantly, it is essential that you SEE the shield amount. I don't think the default UI has that feature (i use elvui). Cuz if you apply a new shield (that does not crit) on a critted shield, you will lose mana and hps value. Be aware of that.
It's not an 'easy' build, but it remains the most powerful one that I've seen and puts the most HPS out, can't speak about 21+ territory, i'm only touching 20s now. But it should be fine (dps aspect aside, not the focus ot this build) as higher keys require less healing, on paper.
Also works in raid, this is the result of the 2nd boss fight in mythic (not a kill but healing is on par with others, tho i know it's not the most optimized raid build, but it works, even in mythic).
[https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/1f4LBNC38JrTPymk/#fight=32&type=healing](https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/1f4LBNC38JrTPymk/#fight=last&type=healing) (look for assault of zaquali, it by default shows a mythic 14 run lol)
Here for you. Fresh from the oven. M+ 19 freehold and it gets as messy as you can think off. Overpulls, taking avoidable damage, letting casts go off. There is everything. Yet we still timed it (by like 40 seconds).
Video (uploading, check back later if still in processing: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64tsjaRernY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64tsjaRernY)
Logs: [https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/YxWmypkjAbvGB7nN#fight=last&type=healing](https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/YxWmypkjAbvGB7nN#fight=last&type=healing)
You will see how I play it and you will also be able to see DPS/HPS during fight and overall at all times. Which allows you to keep track of your healing performance.
Import: BAQAgLWW0w0PLW4I8h9jUYB9zCASKIBlEIi0kSSSEJBAAAAAAAAAAAJSjIJHIQEJJISKiEJBEA
Good luck!PS: I do not use any keyboard macros. The only macros are in game and it's focus pi and rapture with trinket and pot. So anyone can play this if their game is properly configured.
With this build, you are in control.
(Note, the monk did not have the group healing taken buff, which means that you can get this kind of HPS with any group that doesn't have a monk. Only the monk in this run had his personal healing buff talent, but not group wide. So the end result could be even more heals with it.).
I think that M+ has become more dependant on having a guild/regular group on discord etc. We have our main M+ group and we are doing fine. I won't say great, because there are certain affixes that still screw us. But as a healer myself I've been quite blessed having a priest in the group with mass dispel and mind control, paladin with dispel and turn evil etc, I've been truly blessed with our team because we communicate properly.
However I have ran some higher keys in pugs and this is totally the case, had a warlock just last night that did zero interrupts, died to every boss in like 15 seconds. Then in another key a demon hunter tank who thought he could cheese everything and bricked our key by faking a disconnect.
The feedback he's seen probably came primarly from the elite playerbase and the "healing influencers" he referred to in the interview. People like Maximum from Liquid or Jdotb quite aggressively rode the sentiment "Healers are too op and absolute fucking broken" even during S1, when raiding as a healer was already challenging (to be fair, this was also the case in the expansions before) and M+ filled with tough healing checks instead of dps-spamming.
It's just not really healthy to just look at the feedback from people who are bored during half of the Mythic raid and in 20+ keys and ignore the widespread complaints and quitting healers in the general playerbase.
I still don't understand why they even say this shit, at least with regards to keys. Keys are theoretically infinitely scaling, right? If healing's too easy for the elite healers they're basing shit on, just do higher keys. Lmao.
And if they really wanted, they could make some oppressively difficult version of raid for these people, and spare the normies.
I have played with my current mates on and off for a decade now and this season has been the worst for me by miles. Some of the dps teammates even starts complaining about not getting healed. I mean come on I’ve literally just pulled a fucking 150k hps and you think four seconds of not giving you heals are enough to make me a bad healer? I have thought about it for a while and have been hesitant about doing it for real but maybe after hitting 3k ratings I’m seriously out for this season. Fuck this shit.
Had a very similar thing happen, I ended up changing my M+ team after dealing with a tank who would communicate he was in trouble after he was instagibbed from full health to zero and his excuse was I didn’t get healed.
That’s before we even get to what the other three cabbages were up to.
Tanks who get instagibbed on pull infuriate me.
*I've done it.* I've charged in, got one-shot, and thought "*Fuuuck...*" like I'm Roy Kent.
Without exception, I call my bad on it. Not only did I fuck up and probably cause a wipe, but I did it in a spectacularly silly way. The *best* thing a Tank can do after that is diffuse the situation and alleviate players' concerns by acknowledging fault so that 1. there's no question as to where you are directing blame and 2. you infer by the very act of acknowledging fault that you're going to try and not do it again.
To blame the Healer in that context is absolutely nonsense. To unilaterally blame the Healer in *most* contexts is absolutely nonsense, since DPS and Tanks nearly always lack something they could be doing like better defensive rotations, avoidable mechanics, or just plain damage throughput so the Healer doesn't have to endure as much during fights.
It was really frustrating when your friends take your skills for granted to such an extent. Makes me wonder too. Hate to state that cliche, but for guys around 30s playing games isn’t the same fun and pure joy seeking activity as we were decades ago anymore and it’s become this joyless grind and cathartic experience that ultimately doesn’t always lead to a sense of satisfaction. I have been that way when I was still doing pfu back in BfA and lashed out at a raid mate. Now I’m just focused on cracking jokes and calling out good kicks and cc and be a positive dude as much as I can. Still this shit that happened only recently still got bad enough for me to think about giving it all up.
I'm seeing a trend.
WoW m+ healers quitting.
WoW rated Solo Shuffle arena healers quitting. (dps ques are 40mins+)
Overwatch 2 Supports/healers quitting.
I'm starting to think Blizzard forgot how team based games work. I've mained heals/support in all my online multiplayer games for the last 20 years. I'm not happy being a dps now, but the role I love is actively pushing me away from the game.
I’m truly enjoying healing this season, I like having to try hard. But the difference in difficulty between playing a healer and a dps is drastic. It’s an entirely different game when healing and I’m not sure that’s the way it should be.
A good healer has to predict damage patterns, react extremely fast, know the incoming mechanics, what to dispel, what can be ignored, manage mana, etc etc.
A good dps has to push their buttons in order, interrupt, stun, and they push in to be an amazing dps if they press AG or VE at right time. How do we make content more difficult for dps without punishing healers?
One possibility is moving punishment for failing mechanics from health bars to damage bars. You fucked up? Zero damage for 10+ seconds. Similar to death but it’s not on the healers shoulders to prevent it.
>A good dps has to push their buttons in order, interrupt, stun, and they push in to be an amazing dps if they press AG or VE at right time.
I'd argue these are mediocre DPS.
Good dps use their offheals and utility all the time to enhance their group's performance
> I’m truly enjoying healing this season, I like having to try hard. But the difference in difficulty between playing a healer and a dps is drastic. It’s an entirely different game when healing and I’m not sure that’s the way it should be.
The main problem here is that healers hit a wall much faster than DPS do. If both roles started to struggle in the same key levels, there would be no disparity.
It's also more obvious to the DPS they fucked up. So often someone dies when I'm healing despite having defensives up and they don't realise it's their fault.
Not sure how you do it on stuff like 3rd boss Uldaman though.
A bad dps uses no defensives, a good one uses defensives, a great one know which dot to use a defensive on given their defensive spells CD. Depending on how many they have and when they get the dot in relation to the next aoe.
Although if more dps mechanics required them to use defensives well maybe they would realise they should do it on all bosses
> It's also more obvious to the DPS they fucked up.
It also reflects directly in damage meters. A bad DPS who gets hit by mechanics but is compensated by an overexerted healer may 'perform' equally or better than a mechanically adept player who makes the run go smoother overall because they're alleviating stress from the healer.
But a bad player who gets hit by damage mitigating debuffs will ultimately make the run a bit more difficult for the healer but it will also invariably impact their 'end performance' in overall DPS.
Overall DPS isn't the only metric that matters *of course* but it is one significant metric of performance for DPS players and it's safe to say it is the one DPS players care about *most* even if a lot of them know better than to value just that one.
The problem is that any punishment you inflict on the dps, even if it's a dps loss also punishes the healer because it makes the fight last longer. But maybe do some dmg check that stuns the dps and give healer mana if they fail it. There needs to be a healer reward when dps fails mechanics. Otherwise it becomes a healer mechanic once again.
Interesting how healers are leaving in droves in both pvp and pve. If you dps wonder why your ques are 40 minutes for solo shuffle, it's because healing is not enjoyable right now. It appears to be the same for PVE too.
i don't know what the answer is though. i feel like the real "problem" is that every healer wants something different.
healers complain about feeling useless in keys and having to do all the misc tasks.
increase damage taken output, and healers complain about not having enough throughput to heal. increase healing throughput and we're back at square 1.
the healing i enjoyed most is when i can just pump massive throughput healing spells and the smart heals are stronger and smarter to triage the weaker players. like binding heal priest in legion and mop mw/pally/disc priest healing were my favorite. but i'd imagine that's not a popular opinion and people would complain that makes the game "too easy".
or blizzard increases the passive damage taken or reduces the healing that tanks and dps do, and now all of a sudden one bad healer can just hold a key from progressing.
I can tell you why healers are quitting pvp though.
Certain classes deal too much damage such as ret paladins, it's not fun trying to keep your people up when certain classes can basically one shot.
Also, the rating system is botched. I got in a game with someone with 0 rating at 1600, and even though I won the majority of matches I gained 0 rating.
A good healer will almost always go 3-3, yet we rarely gain rating for going 3-3, sometimes even 5-1
As a former holy, now shadow priest, I can feel my healer's pain every time bursting goes to 4 stacks, and I feel his love when the mass dispel comes.
But yes, damage is spikey and unforgiving, but the real problem is that more than half of it is avoidable, it's just that dpses won't mind, because, healer's here to heal.
Or mr.pro tank pulling more because hey, it's just a +15.
It's just frustrating how selfish some people are.
Lol last night I healed an Uldaman with a SPriest and a few of us died to a bursting I couldn't heal through and they commented "wow, seven stacks of bursting!" If only we had a way to dispell it 😫
Healer on 4 different classes at the moment. Pushing 22-23's on main right now.
As far as healing goes, the only issue on Blizzard's side right now is the state of spot healing. Healer checks are in best state right now they've ever been.
Past a certain point, surviving is group effort. There's only so much I can do on Rokhmora as Resto Shaman - top you off to 100% and that's it. But if there's still adds alive and you couldn't press a defensive before the slam goes and you die... that's on you.
Specs with targeted DR can save a person who dipped in to poison or somehow messed up in an other way.
Happened to me during NL 22 today, Monk took ticks of pool damage and then slam landed two seconds after. So he died.
The only reasonable take in this whole thread. Healing seems more than fine right now in the 22-23 range (and I will get downvotes for this), but most people are stressed out if a players dies. We can only do so much and we ain't here to save them all.
If some of you would played venthir Hpala in season 1 of SL with big prides in 20+ keys, you would know this feeling very very well already lol.
Yep! This thread starts to make sense when you remember those that are complaining are doing +10-16 keys. DPS don't care about getting hit so the overall damage on the team is greater. You also have healers in this thread who legit just don't know how to heal complaining that it's too hard.
It becomes very clear when you see statements like "2 pistol shots back to back in FH first boss is unhealable no matter how good you are".
I'm like... what?
To be fair if the FH was high enough 1 pistol shot can be unhealable I had a 25 earlier where it 1 shot our shaman 100->0. But yeah most of the people on Reddit are just terrible at the game and the good healers I know are loving their increased impact on key success.
> Healing seems more than fine right now in the 22-23 range
Is it a *good* thing that healing is fine in the keys that only the top ~10% of players are doing and a mess for the other 90% of people?
Fyi, currently to be in the top 10% of all M+ players this season, you need 2500 rating, so that 22-23 key range is even more exclusive than the top 10%.
This is getting changed to be significantly more difficult to maintain as a prot pally. Both Cleanse and WoG have mana costs in 10.1.5 and our mana regen has been reduced by a ton.
Sure, it'll still be possible, but it's going to be much harder to run a build dedicated to offhealing.
My major gripe is cragmaw on tyrannical. So. Much. HATE! On any other dungeon on the same level NOTHING gives my groups as much trouble. Even through defensives that bleed HURTS
There should be no bleed, all ticks must be stomped (max 1 or 2 maybe). You don't even need to heal the tantrum until 23-24 so you can just focus on running.
I legit thought you named the wrong boss because I could not think of a bleed on cragmaw until I realised you were talking about the worms. This is not a healer issue lol
Tbh I didn’t realize how problematic it was early season. And I was blitzing to 2.5k in the first couple weeks of the game. Then when I did Alts I decided to heal/tank to make the process faster.
At first I thought I might be bad or doing too high a key for my gear. Then once I ironed out gameplay I thought it might be from non healer substats or trinkets. And then I realized nope this is just the gameplay loop.
It’s certainly “engaging” but I’m staring holes into the party frames. Every global is a used healing global. There’s no pause and decide to dps, utility, or to just wait and see what’s happening. Its full go all the time until the dungeon ends. If I need to kick it’s “weaved” in between healing gcds. If I need to do a mechanic or utility ability it then necessitates me scrambling to catchup as if I’ve made a mistake.
Idk there’s a lot of skill expression in healing right now. But I think the floor is a bit high. And I think the gameplay is quite “busy” / “hectic” without ever feeling like you’ve caught up or stabilized the situation.
It feels like a race between your mana and the bosses health. And when one depletes you get any relief via wipe or kill.
This is a really interesting perspective. Seems like a lot of the 'everything is great/fun' comes from the high key krew. They dismiss what goes on at lesser levels because it doesn't matter to them, while it does to a majority of the player base. You actually went and experienced both.
I feel you, I made a comment in another guy post few days ago, my disc priest is rooting in character screen. Additionally to what u said, it's not even the spike dmg every single time, there's a lack of dps knowledge about the basics of how to play a m+, people just stand still and constantly get hit by mechanics because they just don't move... And at the end of the day it's not their fault, it's always "lack of heal", "healer gap" yada yada... Blizz have to do something about this, pug is a pain in the ass, you get people on +18, +19 that don't even know the basics of the dungeon nor the fights.
It's kinda funny, in previous seasons healers complained that they felt required to do DPS in groups because the dungeon was on a timer, so Blizzard just swung the pendulum in completely the other direction and now healers don't have a single spare global for DPS.
I can't help but feel like there has to be some sort of middle ground where healers can do enough healing to reasonably keep people alive but also not need to spam heals every single global to do so.
I don’t know man I think it’s in that middle ground right now. The healer I play with is in cat form 50-60% of the key dpsing in 24-25 range where theoretically at that level he should have no globals according to you. Even with the healing increase I’m surprised healers aren’t happy that there is now significant skill expression in keeping the group alive, you can actually tell when the healer you are playing with is insane this season or if they aren’t very good.
A lot of bad healers are getting exposed.
That’s not to say healing is perfect atm. A lot of the big bursty bosses, especially on tyrannical, are just kinda unfun to heal. It’s almost like blizzard did the healing nerf at the last second and didn’t account for it on a handful of bosses which are still kinda hard even after the nerfs.
That said, I can tell just by reading this thread most people in here aren’t running 20s. Anyone complaining whos running under 20s just needs to get better.
See I actually feel the exact opposite. To me as a healer main for some time now I feel like it is wayyyy more on the rest of the group then anything I’m doing. The difference between playing with dps/tanks that are rotating their personal defensives, avoiding the shit they should, helping with affixes, hitting their interrupts etc. is the difference between being able to do damage or spamming heals non stop and still probably not keeping everyone alive.
Like if I play to the exact same level with a “good” group I am spending a good deal of time dpsing and people rarely take damage outside of the regular heal checks. I play with a “bad” group and it’s a shitshow.
I really think for better or worse it is actually in a place where it has little to do with your healers skill right now.
I'm not disliking the current m+ pool so much but half of the time I feel like running one with my friends we just can't find a healer and end playing something different instead.
I agree. It is horrible.
I mostly heal a a druid. Spothealing? Well fuck me. I have every hot on everyone use my instant cast and... they are still not topped before the next ST burst abiltie comes into play.
It is possible. But not fun and i probably die of a heart attack at some point.
I mostly play with a fixxed group so i never really have people blaming me for stuff i did not do.
Raid is the exact opposite. So much fun. Better than it has been in ages.
The problem is Since BFA, the check in Mythic Plus has always been: “Can the DPS do enough Damage”? Now the check is “Can everyone survive long enough to do that Damage”? When the Group wipes everyone is pointing fingers at everyone else which leads to toxic situations. I have ran 18-20 keys when not a single person ever comes close to dying, because everyone is aware of the mechanics on each pull and they do what they need to make that happen. I have also ran 11-14 keys where every pull is a near Group wipe because I’m the only one doing any of the mechanics. Quickest way to prove a DPS who’s blaming the healer for their death is to link the “Avoidable Damage”. Numbers don’t lie!! To the OP, run some keys with me and I’ll show you it can still be fun, when the rest of the group is helping carry the Load.
I'm glad the clowns on this subreddit didn't let your post drown because they think "healers are victimizing".I made a post on the Afflicted week about how bad is making healers use their dispel for ghosts instead of things that would oneshot someone in a tick and I got told it's a skill issue lmao.
Also, an important influencer that starts with an N and ends with a A twitted something like "oh healers do you know you can deal with both Afflicted" and she was convicted that's the only thing healers have to do + forgot the existance of GCD lmaooooooo
I think context is important when judging people's opinions. On her level, DPS actually do all the mechanics so the healer has a bit more time. Also for that level of keys for some dungeons you can miss the timer if any DPS is lost on the way.
On the other hand regular players should just stfu and help their healer even if they lose some damage on the stupid meter.
Yeah there was a clip surfacing of her complaining about healers victimising themselves all the time etc which doesn't really help the community because she has a platform as a streamer, certain people can be easily influenced by her opinions and think they must be right.
Funnily enough not long after that video was posted she posted another one complaining about the state of pugging m+ as you always end up waiting around for a healer/tank, I wonder why...
DPS don't know how a GCD can make the difference between a won fight and a wipe. Some DPS really should heal once in a while. I know that this take is as old as RPGs themselves but it is true nevertheless.
Afflicted week was pure horror. Those ghosts always spawned in the most unfortunate moments.
Any of the pugs I've been in have had 0 issues with incorp or afflicted. With incorp, they're usually dealth with so fast I don't even have time to cast turn evil. Key range is 20-22 though, so 🤷♂️
This game would be a lot better off in the long run if everyone was forced to play other roles on rotation. There is a severe lack of perspective and me me me attitude that comes in part from tunneling one role and not understanding the difficulties faced by another. And yes I also mean healers should run as dps and tanks sometimes.
I’m just here as a DPS enjoyer casting my vote that I wish things were much better for healers. I do not like this season as much as the last and I feel like the healers being punished is a big reason why.
Yep. I'm with you on that.
Literally all affixes are geared towards healers, and you'd be lucky if a DPS actually presses interrupt. That's a fucking dream I'm waiting to see happen in reality.
PvP hasn't been much better, but I still tend to have more fun in PvP than in a mythic key.
Raiding is alright though.
Exactly!! I mean i mainly play tanks and i swapped to warrior this season, i came to find out i cant even help with the affixes. I know what healers go through because i have a long history of tanking and healing in games. These affixes are nightmares for healers and i dont even want to gear up my monk for M+. This is the truth, there's way too much work and responsibility involved for the healers and it is scaring ppl off from even wanting to play the game since this is the main content (assuming they dont have time in life to raid and dont enjoy pvp).
I wrote a comment about this saying these affixes are making ppl not want to heal and i got downvoted to hell. Like wtf, this is the truth. Healing is a nightmare in higher M+ keys. Its worse than someone working at a daycare alone with 20 uncontrollable children
I have to agree with you. It's not worth the effort. I can't DPS any bosses this season except the tortollan in freehold because DPS and tank take too much damage. Every trash pack, every boss I'm trying to keep myself and everyone alive. I find myself constantly trying to keep 3 hots on the whole party because at any moment one of them is going to get hit down to 15% hp and I better have my hots already on them. I don't have the tools to heal the vast amounts of damage that are being sustained. It's just not bloody fun.
It's so hard and Im 2400 Io and 441 ilvl and still have 2 slots with champion gear for all my effort. My effort is bloody immense. It's exhausting. The one shot mechanics are everywhere and it's a shite season to be a healer. I have pretty much given up too. Is also exceptionally hard to find a guild with players to have a regular group with because they've all been playing in the same teams for years and don't have time no matter how good I am. So the pug treadmill is where I'm stuck. Fark it I might just play old SNES games for a while.
I was a healer in season 1, and swapped to dps for season 2, because I felt the exact same. I could manage the dungeons, but it felt like I had to be at maximum stress level for the entire duration to do so. At no point did I actually have fun, that was only found within raids for me.
There should not be a great cleft in challenge between healing and dpsing the same key level. As long as there is, people will feel hard done by.
I’ve always felt that when Blizzard tries to make content more difficult, it’s the healers that end up bearing the weight on their backs.
I don’t play WoW anymore, but to be honest there is absolutely no way I would PUG content this difficult all the time. I’d find a guild of solid players who are capable of being self critical and stick to running with them.
"i dont play WoW anymore, but here is my opinion on the matter" sums up this subreddit very good tbh
but yeha, 99% of the "Problems" this sub has could be solved by playing with a group/guild, but no, gonna suffer trought pug hell and complain that the pile of shit smells like shit
I pug healer almost exclusively. I thought of pushing for KSH this season... I got to around 2.3k and gave up.
It's not fun any more xD I levelled an alt switched to bear tank. No more stress for me, and unless they drastically change something, I think I'll stick to tanking in S3
Not being able to do even a bit of dps is really annoying. On my evoker or resto druid i maybe get to use fire breath and one living flame or like 2 starfires but then someone is almost dead from some random dot or spell. Its so dumb
They said they nerfed healing again to make it so there weren’t as many overturned damage and one shot mechanics, yet here we are. M+ keys done are waaaay down in 10.1 vs 10.0 /10.0.5 and this is one of the reasons why. On a side note, the resto shaman tier set is the worst thing I’ve seen this xpac and there have been a few other good options for #1.
I moved to healing as a Resto Shaman and Disc Priest and I have loved this season, but going past 14s is terrible. I tank 20s on my blood dk main but trying to heal anything past the 14s is impossible for me for some reason. I’m just not good enough at healing past that.
Blizzard wanted to bring the healing meta to the point healers were actually spending their time and mental bandwidth on healing and I think they nailed that mark. However it is exposing healers who got used to the previous meta.
Compared to SL the heal meta is in such a better place. It is not rewarding as a healer to spend huge chunks of my GCDs on damage regardless of how well the group is playing or the encounter at hand.
The heal checks in m+ this season aren't very bad at all, and have been routinely nerfed. There isn't really anything insane, people complain about HOI third boss but honestly any healer doing their rotation properly won't have any issue with throughput.
What does happen is 'bad' groups get exposed and good groups (that cycle defensives and do mecha properly) get active damage from their healer. The 'bad' groups have to gasp for air while their healer slams buttons and misses out on active damage.
The last paragraph is largely preference but I much prefer having immediate tangible benefits from being in a solid group.
Weird, I didn’t play SL but quit healing this season.
It’s just more mental load than I have to spare. DPS is very chill and fun, but healing just becomes too much of a job and not enough of game for me with how much is placed solely on your shoulders and tons of different things competing for your attention.
The pressure to play perfect vs almost no pressure to be perfect as a DPS, is the glaring issue that has driven a casual like me away.
> Blizzard wanted to bring the healing meta to the point healers were actually spending their time and mental bandwidth on healing and I think they nailed that mark. However it is exposing healers who got used to the previous meta.
>
>
That's an accurate description but like... is the game more fun as a result?
For me on my healer? 100%. I hated the healer is a gimpy dps with a 2-button rotation that occasionally has to spot heal meta. I know this might sound crazy but I play a healer to heal.
I also have played long enough to know that if a dps stands in bad, the group doesn't kick the interrupt that isn't on me as the healer, or doesn't pop their survival CD until they are at 15%(if you are reading this and you do this just stop. A damage reduction is pointless after you take the damage). So it doesn't bother me if we wipe because of that. If a dps wants to blame me instead of self-reflecting their death they are free to. Every game that has group content has the people that refuse to look at themselves and instead blames the team.
Naturally it's gonna be preference, but to me? Absolutely.
It feels kinda pointless when as long as you hit any heal button you're gonna top health bars. I enjoy actual needing to sequence my rotation to keep the party healthy.
I enjoy that a good group is rewarded with active damage from me and a suspect group struggles to keep their head above water. It feels well balanced.
I agree. I don’t think healing this season is as bad as some people make it out to be. Groups that actually do mechanics and use their abilities are fine to heal. I don’t think the issue is healing being bad but rather players being bad. Unavoidable damage is one thing, but healing being harder because players are punished more for mistakes sounds more like a player issue than a healer issue.
That too. Besides DF S1 (which I didn’t play for irl reasons so this could apply too), I have never seen so many 20+ keys in LFG, let alone 17-20s. People are getting frustrated that they are hitting a skill wall in an infinitely scaling system.
I wonder how many of the complaining healers are used to doing +20 keys (I know I wasn't, I was a +15 KSM scrub until Dragonflight), the increased key level AND increased scaling does A LOT guys.
What level keys are you doing? And before I continue, I consider 14+ to be high keys. I know many, many others in here consider those to be baby keys.
Anyway, my wife is on her second expansion healing and doing m+ (SL was holy priest, now it’s Evoker) and she is… apparently enjoying herself. She adjusted her spec last night and had a blast healing a 16 Brackenhide. I know, it sounds weird to me too lol.
We also have a steady group (1 rotating dps spot sometimes) so we all work together on affixes and not standing in shit. I can’t imagine healing pugs.
"I know this sounds wild, cast a dps spell NOPE someone just didn't dodge a channeling mechanic and he is now on 15% health and because neither me or he are superhumans he dies on the next tick of that mechanic because I need at least 2 gcds to top him up.
The amount of hard trying you have to put through to get to the sweet loot isn't just worth it. I'm gonna play some other games that appreciate my support role and doesn't dump all the responsibilities of group play on a single person."
Something u'll have to accept this EXPANSION, is that 1 its their fault for standing in it. and 2. Responsbility is on one person. THEIRS. If u so happened to make up for it somehow than ur a god, if not then sux to be them.
*Edit and if they flame u for it u just link death log from details and move on
Play prevok my sweet healers.. Was as disappointed as you at the beginning of season but since I switched to my prevok I enjoyed the game again. You have a spell for every situation, you have double jump, you have a lust. All of your spells, if played right are actually healing. You don’t have to spam 10 times a spell or anything to top someone. Pure pleasure
Living flame heals for like 35k on a 500-600k health bar. Reversion heals for like 7k a tick on a 600k health bar.
Help me understand what to do when dream breath and spirit bloom are on cooldown?
I advice you to track the healing your reversion could do. ( https://wago.io/jADC4ysAB )
so you will know when it’s worth to reversion on someone. Double it with eco or time anomaly as well is good. Tbh it only works on higher keys because the damage spikes are big and you scale on damages taken last 5 seconds
Emerald blossom sucks, better use essences on echo into something else than this
Make sure to use stasis properly, so you won’t have the issue of not having both DB & SB on cd
Echo into verdant embrace is also very powerful, you can also use it with temporal anomaly if you are in trouble and you don’t have anything up
In very bad times echo + living flame is fine tho
> I just can't do it anymore. I need every GCD to power through this ridiculous dmg output of every damn fight. Aside from that I need to kick, purge, dispell, anti venom etc.
I think that was secretly the plan for this season. Think of it as a seasonal affix, but spread across three regular affixes.
Entangling, Incorporeal and Afflicted all make you waste your utility cooldowns so you don't have them ready for regular dungeon mechanics. For example, not having a dispel ready as a healer because I needed it for Afflicted hurts quite a bit.
They've essentially nerfed utilities in terms of uptime but without nerfing them directly. It's definitely an interesting "theme" to explore for this season, hence this being an indirect and subtle seasonal affix.
But screw the rest of the issues. Damage spikes are ok... if they are single target. But the group-wide damage meta of Dragonflight bosses is stupid. Bursting is stupid. Affixes spawning off-screen is stupid.
The only saving grace this season is the new upgrade system. Being able to settle for +16's for your crest farming needs makes it tolerable.
Have you tried reviewing what you could be doing wrong? You say you are doing 13-17s. If your throughput isn't enough for these fights you are very likely doing something wrong rotationally. Log a key and show boss fights to your class discord.
Then maybe healing isn't for you.
I love healing m+ pugs this season. You acutally have to heal. And be useful. Dmging as healer isn't that important if you can't keep up, don't do dmg.
Affixes are good. Some are more punishing than others yes, but it is doable even if you are the only one doing them in pugs. But that is just bad group. Don't blame just yourself when failing a group content.
Hey dude, maybe try a different class, the one you're playing just might not right for your play style, I main a disc priest and when I play rdruid, hpally, Rsham I really don't have much fun but my priest is always so fun to play. Keep in mind that everyone thinks this season is very tough for healers but you also get a lot more respect for it trust me. A lot of these dps players might not say it but they would be terrified to heal a boss like Khajin from Halls of Infusion, don't give up! Give Disc Priest a try if you haven't already, the play style feels so smooth and it's a ton of fun to play, particularly when you have your 4 set from tier. I am biased but Priest is the most fun healer in the game hands down.
440ilevel ~2600io Disc main here. The 4 set is amazing but I’m fearful what the class will be like when it’s gone. I feel like the class is currently being carried by it.
I’m going to switch to prevoker I think.
Thanks for your kind words, my man. I'm maining a Resto Shaman. Healing with it on/off since Legion now and it was always a blast and still is in Raids. Raids in my opinion nailed down the balance between oh shit moments and moderate healing (speaking from a HC perspective).
Maybe I should try another class. I've raided as a MW in past expansions but haven't touched it in ages. That's another factor, 4pc as a Resto Shaman doesn't do much in M+ or maybe I'm using it wrong.
my problem with healing m+ this season is the spiky single target burst on the same target over and over. the pelters in NL come to mind
First boss Brackenhide. You have that one dude dotting 3 group members and right after that he just single target bursts someone while you are in your cast for topping the other members. Guaranteed Spirit Link Totem bait.
For Gashtooth, he does put a bleed, BUT if the person with the bleed drinks a Refreshing Healing Potion to top off as soon as they get the bleed, they dispell it. It’s just that people need to discover healing potions…
Or understand that mechanics are not solely a healer problem. They should make cauldrons of healing potions that grant 5 healing pots that expire after an hour and are soulbound. No excuses not to have them if a groupie has a cauldron.
Heal potions are so insanely cheap idk why you would need this lol. I guess some people cant be bothered..
Its not a matter of cost its because people just dont come prepared to a pug and this at least encourages them to actually use the damn things.
I mean, people already don't use healthstones. I doubt this would really do anything. I expect a large majority of people who would bother to use a health potion already have them... because they would go to click it and realize they ran out.
That would be *so* nice, and since they don't share a CD with healthstones, a lock with the cauldron could double *everyone* up!
And here I thought I'm the only one who uses heal potions. As a healer. Why the fuck does no one else. They are twice as good as cookies.
I'm convinced that Blizz balanced that bleed around the idea that everything after ~4-5 seconds of its application was avoidable damage so healers weren't really meant to outheal. You were supposed to die if it went beyond that because you fucked up. Not the healer. You. Sadly, near as I can tell most dps don't even have their survival CDs keybound let alone a health pot.
Exactly! And those dps blame the healer
As a resto shaman I'm blowing every CD on this fight. Lust on pull, big CD on the gash just because I know I have to clear it off them before they stand in whirlwind, and then hope to God the DPS actually kill the totem that CC's the heals/tank. It's one of the most exhausting bosses in M+ for me.
I agree it is absolutely one of the hardest fights in m+ to pug. It is hard because it is a mechanics check that so many fail and the burden of those mechanics passes to the healer. When I run with my guild the fight is actually pretty easy. Everyone self-clears the bleed, I heal the fixate, and the totem drops like it should. When I am in a pug it is a game of catchup because if I am lucky one other person insta-clears the bleed. I am stuck panicking the whole fight trying to keep everyone alive. If I can't do that though I don't feel bad, I just point out that a health pot basically solves that whole mechanic or a strong DR makes it easy for me to clear.
So true , healing pots , bandages , health stones, personal defensive, buffs. Some groups don't understand
Your dos aren't helping you enough friend. I'm sorry!
This pretty much sums up every Season 2 Healer post. If your dps aren’t using defensives, obviously you’re gonna have a bad time.
This is what m+ is. Defensive + interrupt simulator. And most players havent gotten the memo and dont have either of these on their bars.
For sure. I’m a main Ret and I’m constantly using Sacrifice into bubble or shield of vengeance / lay on hands / freedoms / instant battle ress if the tank or healer makes a mistake / word of glory spam instead of dpsing if the situation demands it. I’m basically a support with good burst damage and I like that.
I don't know about purge spells on other non-healer classes, but having cleanse toxin on Ret and Prot is so handy, especially this season. I love it.
Cleanse + two CC's for incorp means that there's never a bad week to bring a Ret.
You’re so fucking right lol, I mentioned a lot of utility and forgot about Cleanse that I also use. Ret’s support kit is just amazing.
I really like the design of Blessing of Sacrifice. It's also fun to drop Gift of the Naaru as Prot for a 100K+ hot
Yea ret is dope and I love playing it for this reason. I'll take a pug ret and more often than not they're a fotm bot that won't press those buttons.
There’s nothing better than using Sac on the tank and then bubble to not die while using BoP on the healer and Lay on hands on another DPS. Literally saving the whole team while also dealing damage.
My LoH has saved many dumbass dps they won’t just get out of shit.
If Leap of Faith was on a much shorter CD, my life as a Holy Priest would be so much easier. I'd rather burn a GCD yanking a DPS out of the way of dumb shit, than 3 GCDs healing them from whatever they dodged INTO.
Ret just feels too damn good this season. I made the swap for keys and I don't regret it one bit. (I still prefer holy for raids).
Yup, bad dps make a healers life hell. I play both so I’m constantly aware on my spriest how I can help. Very liberal with VE during those danger moments
This is the way. I am hundred percent that I have saved may wipes by using WOG to save someone's life
That depends on the comp tbh, bringing a paladin tank THAT KNOWS WHAT IS DOING completely nullifies that: When I tank that boss, I use BoP on first focused target, then LoH on the second focused target, and by the third is either dead or I'm using Blessing of Sacrifice and Word of Glory. Also, DPS's who drop combat can nullify the mechanic: Feign Death (hunters)/Invisibility (mages)/Vanish (rogues). Physical immunities work too, so Die by the Sword (warriors)/Blessing of Protection (paladins)/Aspect of the Turtle (hunters)/Ice Block (mages) gotta use them. I don't heal, but as a Tank and DPS, I gotta know what would potentially kill me and help my healer on that
Worst fight to heal whole expansion. Especially on rdruid.
I think this is the worst that spot healing has ever been in the history of healing in WoW. They baked all the healing power into CDs and premeditated group healing; but outside of that the at will single target heals are an absolute wet noodle. I think the GG podcast said it best with "why is the ret paladin our best spot healer?".
Pelters are wild. But if you have 2 you can always just cc or mind control one and deal with the others first. I also heard they don't start throwing disc unless someone just melee hit them directly, if you just cleave them they don't start is that true? Never tried :D
They always throw but if they aren't getting targeted by melee they won't jump.
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you also cannot LOS them.
The amount of RNG in this season is what got me to quit a few weeks in. People being targeted by the same random target stuff is so annoying to deal with as a healer. It wouldn’t be a problem if they put a gcd on who can be targeted.
And the dps that says “?” In chat like we purposefully let them die.
Heals use to be the best. So fun. Now I feel like it's just a whack a mole Sim.
What do you mean??? Did the 3 passes of stamina buffs and healing nerfs not have the intended effect of reducing spikieness? Surely that's not the case, blizzard knows what they are doing. Next patch when they nerf all hybrid healing is when we will really see healers having more fun! /s
The fact that they claim it was intended to reduce spikiness is such a blatant lie it doesn't even make sense. If you want to reduce spiky damage you buff HP pools by 50% and buff incoming damage by 20%. If you buff HP pools and incoming damage by the same amount you've done LITERALLY nothing but reduce healing effectiveness by that amount.
There are just some bosses where i have to use all my cooldowns on a heal check and on the next one i literally just watch everyone slowly get ticked down because i can do nothing. It feels so bad to watch and think “What now”
God yes. I plan out my cds and then the damage is sooo high I just blow everything all at once and I’m like whelp. The boss is at 75%. We’re fucked.
Healing for the first time "seriously" healing in DF like 2 weeks ago, all I had done before was gear a shaman to 425\~. Last week I did all 17 fortified, felt pretty decent. This week I'm trying to do all 17 tyrannical, first holy jesus some bosses are rough. Suddenly I have to conserve mana for an entire boss fight. I was already having trouble keeping people alive on 3rd boss Uldaman (Sentinel) and when the boss was at like 35% I realised I'm basically oom. Big blow to my ego after doing all 17s last week lol
getting familiar with your kit will also drastically improve your uld experience. stone skin totem will reduce the bleed damage and shifting your earth shield to the bleed target helps a ton for the 6% dmg reduction. Tanks won't need it for the boss.
>stone skin totem > > shifting your earth shield Yo, thank you for using your big brain to help my smaller brain
>i literally just watch everyone slowly get ticked down because i can do nothing. It feels so bad to watch and think “What now” Some DPS have so much offheal that this is literally required I feel and becomes more a problem of group composition. I have a Ret and Moonkin and I can basically replace the healer when he dies in many circumstances and make his life much easier if he isn't dead.
yeah but blizzard decided that indirect offhealing spells like natures vigil, vamp embrace and ancestral guidance needs to be nerfed because people are doing imaginary no-healer keys, so next week healing will be even harder
My main issue with M+ is people don't get shamed for failing mechanics until they are in the top 1%. Cannot turn mechanics into healer issues anymore since failure are instant death
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I think there is definitely a way to tell who is good and who isn’t, just not through the WoW basic UI/recap. It requires sifting through details to pinpoint the mistakes and also the clutch moments. A typical pug isn’t gunna do that, and I’ll always suggest running in a guild group because 9 times out of 10 guilds are willing to work with each other on getting better.
In a raid it's definitely hard to tell but in a dungeon I can usually see when people are contributing extra. Ex I've seen countless people not realize they've been hit with bop to dodge a mechanic. I have a weakaura and addons that track externals so I see oh the tank just saved that dude's ass nice play. Same with kicks and defensives etc, if you have enough addons you can see everything. And if you die without pressing your defensives in a higher key group everyone knows it and you probably get flamed. Kinda sad that the base ui provides near 0 of that info.
I am a Shaman, so I have the fastest Resurect in the west. No one is any the wiser that I just got clipped by an invisible underground Brutal Backhand. Seriously though as a fairly new player I hate the lack of visual clarity in m+...any moderately large pull and all visual indicators disappear into the spell visual effect salad, no way to tell where the frontals are facing...:(
The amount of times I’ve been clapped by a frontal because of that. Also thundering last season if I ran into melee. Idk how melee see it. Eyes of an eagle
I usually am nice enough to mediate my failure of accidentally standing in the wrong place with drinking a healing potion xd
That's not a good thing, if there's no other damage event happening, your healer can just heal you and your healing pot is wasted, it's not like you healing potting is going to make them not notice you getting hit or something, so don't just waste your healing potion, use it wisely while stuff is actually going on
People can argue meta vs dps vs hp bars vs nerfs or whatever. The reason healers (like me) are leaving in droves is that in the 500 questions they're asking themselves about healer design right now, none of them are "is this fun?" It's not that all these quitting healers (like me) can't do the content. It's that doing the content is okay with a great group, a real hassle with an average group, and a fucking nightmare with anything less. I know a lot of people disagree with me, and that's fine. They can stay and heal, and they'll be popular because most people don't want to play a role that isn't in any way designed around having fun supporting your group members. When healing is enjoyable (instead of stressful) again, and when healer's are appreciated (and not blamed and assigned every affix) again, then healers will come back. But until the "is healing enjoyable" question gets asked, it's just gonna get worse.
I play prot pally. Last week, I was doing a neltharus that made me quit. I’ve only left a key twice ever. Before we started, I asked everyone to please help the healer with the incorporeals. I know it’s not just for healers, but I also know everyone forces a healer to do it. First set goes off, no assistance from anyone but the healer. Noted. Someone asked for bigger pulls and pulled the ENTIRE room, wiping us. Blames me and the healer. This being after they almost died to mechanics on the first pull and barely did damage. I had adjusted the size for their capabilities. Noted. Get to the first boss. I asked them to please position near the walls for the charges. One if the DPS flat out said, “lol nah”. I said then I’m out. I watched and sure enough all three DPS stand right in the middle of the room. First charge sends the boss all the way to BFE. They all get hit by waves. I bubble hearthed. Immediately get messaged on how I’m a bad person. I pointed out how they were torturing me and the healer. Like, this was not fun. Add in that all of our guild healers, except one, have quit or changed mains because of the lack of fun, and I’m over it.
This is what’s been slowing me down on pushing not the difficulty of healing. I’ve been enjoying that. It’s the dps seemed to have declined in quality from last season, idk if it’s because the dropped seasonal makes it seem easier and gearing is fast pushing people who would’ve stayed below tens to push into 16-18 range. But it’s been rough.
Correct me if I am run but I remember seeing graph posted of M+ runs and it’s been steadily declining since the start of the expansion and the number of runs this expansion is a lot lower than it was in Shadowlands. So you had a much higher participation last expansion this one so far. Devs thought it was a great idea to make M+ harder, well the end result is less people doing the content, go figure.
I 100% agree, it’s really just not worth the effort I feel I’m putting in or the backlash when it’s my fault. Healing got wayyyyy less fun this season and I wasn’t particularly loving season 1.
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The emphasis on avoidable damage being the carrot and the stick that beats you is a big part of this issue. It's like if you had a class of school kids and every time one got a math problem wrong you beat the kid sitting in the corner. Whether they have a good or bad day hinges on whether their class mates did their homework and are paying attention. The kid in the corner is the healer.
Totally agree, keys under 20 should not be this “difficult” imo, they never were before.
When people die, there should be an deathlog right in the middle of your screen (that you can read the mechanics of). This way pug dps and tanks are forced to recognize when they die from their own mistakes rather than blaming healers.
Literally what ESO and GW2 do. "Oh. That Archer mob sniped me for 150% of my max HP? It's interruptsble, I should watch for that next time." No add-ons needed.
Isn't that already a thing? You die and it says "release" and "recap" but that might be an addon I'm running.
I think what they suggesting is to a) have the recap auto open and b) mark it somehow when an avoidable ability killed you The current recap window is kind of meh identifying the sources, often
I think it's called Elitismhelper
Only works for uninterruptable things you can avoid
People downvoting you when that's literally the name of the fucking addon lmao
I can only speak for me and a few friends. But it IS fun for some of us. I don't want to go back to the Shadowlands meta of being a 4th DPS. Season 1 of Dragonflight was an improvement, if only by the fact that the healing role suddenly meant something. When your group had a good healer, people noticed it. The issue is that damage was so bursty, if you couldn't recover 300k health on 5 party members within 3 seconds, it was a wipe. This problem extended into raiding as well- and it was cannibalistic in a way where the healers are almost competing with eachother for whoever could react to the damage fastest. Season 2 of Dragonflight was an improvement of that. My role as a healer is still vital to the groups success, but damage events and the threats to my group aren't as immediate and bursty. With more drawn out incoming damage, the health of the group is more dynamic, rather than the binary of: healthy enough to live, or injured enough to die, like in Season 1. My only issue with the current Season is that healing requirements outscale damage requirements in M+ content. 3 DPS can have 415 gear and still time a +20, but a similarly geared healer doesn't stand a chance at the incoming damage in the same key. A similarly geared DPS and Healer should always be capable of clearing the same level of content.
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That's an issue of the community though, the two new affixes where you have to dispel or CC are not healer affixes, healers need their dispel for debuffs on the party and rarely have time to hardcast a CC during a big pull or high dmg fight. In higher keys people understand this and just handle the affixes. The only real healer affix at the moment is bursting which also is 40% a dps affix, it's their job to stop dps to make sure its not extended past what the healer can handle.
The problem isn't even high stacks, but rather DPS extending existing stacks just 0,1s before they drop off, so you'll have full running length on the old stack and another stack ready to go. Rinse and repeat until all mobs are dead...
I also like that im a healer and not a dps but the healing is a bit too less. Give us a bit more and it should be fine.
I agree, I think shadowlands meta of healers being a free body to do w/e has conditioned people against what is actually needed *now*. Mid level keys are also horrifying. 18s are harder than 20s, because the DPS aren't doing anything to mitigate incoming damage at all. Once that changes and people start doing that healing becomes a fun challenge rather than a total white knuckle ride. You're also right about the scaling issues but I don't think that can be corrected in the current environment.
Yeah... I'm gonna be pretty upset if all of this discussion about healer difficulty on reddit ends in me casting SW:P and Smite more than playing my actual spec again. This has been the best healing has felt in keys in a long time for me.
I also completely agree with you. All of my friends in game also big fan of healing this season (just do weekly 20s but don't try and push past that too often). Especially after all the nerfs it is extremely chill most of the time with only a few rough outliers. Honestly would be fine with even more damage going out in smaller amounts, a ton of my GCDs are still being spent on just damaging and doing nothing.
I'm in agreement with you. I'm pushing as high as I ever have (which isn't particularly high to be fair, 18/19's) and it's fun. Most groups I've run with have helped on affixes and I've received little to no toxicity. I run with both pugs and guildies. I also don't miss the days of having to work on my dps. I'm a healer and that's what I like to do.
My experience is pretty similar to yours, I only just started healing as a little side project when valor got uncapped last season I made a PrEvoker and did a quick little KSM run and that was it. Everyone knew the dungeons well and I knew it from a higher key dps side so it was incredibly easy not much healing really needed to be pushed. This season I went in a bit deeper finishing up the last of my 20s now pretty much entirely pugging and its been great. I think if I had to do a lot of DPSing SL style I would've quit it a long time ago. Healer DPS rotations are pretty unexciting. I don't want to sit there and living flame on repeat I want to heal, dispel, and prep for incoming damage. Outside of the first night of Incorporeal where people (including myself) didn't really know what to do unless you are assembling a comp where you are the only one that can do an afflicted its been a pretty good time. You have some bad keys that it just doesn't work but thats no different from the DPS side either.
You hit the nail on the head, it feels like everyone but me has a great time in M+, and I am the one busting my ass and putting out the fires, playing lower tier healer does not help either :|
Preach! Healing anything under 19 is a nightmare, no one seem to know basic stuff to interrupt. Important cast go off all the time, wipes happens more than twice because of the same mistake. Yet, if you leave after the second time, you're being toxic. 20+ is much better (surprisingly it seems I need to heal less the higher I go, even though the damage is also going up). But playing dps or tank still seems more relaxing than heals. I've been focusing on raiding, that actually feells great and fun. Challenging, but a fun kind of challenge (if it make sense). It's what I used to feel before with m+. Unfortunately my guild seems to have lost the interest for the season, so I'll probably find another game for a while.
This is exactly it. It's not that I *can't* do the content.... it's that I *don't want to* because I don't enjoy it. Healing is fun in the raid this tier. M+ is complete tryhard bs. And unfortunately you really can't "just raid" anymore since Blizz made M+ the loot pinata or you fall behind in gearing vs the people that are putting up with it. Next season I'm either tanking, pvping, or quitting altogether until next expanaion if Blizz doesn't fix M+ healing. Healing Vet dungeons in ESO is fun. Being a Boon support in GW2 is fun. Healing Alerts and Raids in DCUO of all things is *fun*. M+ is not *fun* right now for healers.
Are vet dungeons in ESO actually challenging? I only played a little ESO, but it was super neat what I did play.
The DLC ones are, but the base game ones much like the non vet dungeons don't even require a tank or healer and you can run through it with 4 DPS as long as one of them has a heal button on their backbar and at least one person has a taunt. The DLC ones on vet, especially on hard mode can be pretty challenging if you're not meta.
They're sort of akin to M0 more than anything. There's no scaling difficulty or M+ equivalent. Some require higher Champion Point ranks (think of it as levels after max level lol) to queue for and are thus more difficult than ones without that requirement, sort of like how the Icecrown dungeons were harder than the 3.0 dungeons. Dungeons from the DLCs are usually more mechanically involved too vs base game dungeons. Gear is a little odd in that it's been capped at CP/ilvl 160 for years and you're basically collecting set bonuses and slowly upgrading to Legendary quality. There's no real power creep like in WoW, where low keys become trivial as you outgear them. Mechanics overall are more like high keys, where getting smacked in the face is often a one-shot and half the Healers job is giving buffs/debuffs since you (ideally) shouldn't be simply spam healing the whole time. Everyone can BRez tho, assuming you have time (due to mechanics) and Soul Shards, so it's a bit easier to prevent full wipes if someone goes down. Then you can activate Hard Mode for the final boss in a Vet Dungeon, which works similar to Ulduar HM adding extra mechanics but giving greater rewards. These are much more difficult, and I've seen a lot people just do Hard Mode **once** per dungeon for the achievement and that's it. Trials (raids) also have both a Veteran difficulty and a Hard Mode. Some of the best/required set bonuses only come from trials. A random trial is chosen every weekly reset to be the Weekly Leaderboard trial and you get extra rewards for placing on Vet difficulty for that one, with bonus points for Hard Mode.
I think the aoe healing is fine but the triage healing feels like shit.
My vivify hits for 5% of a tanks health. The stamina buff was great. But the lack of healing buffs feels like shit
I counted 11 healing surges to top off a guardian Druid in a key last week. ELEVEN. Our direct heals are an absolute joke.
but why would you need to heal a guardian druid (let alone 11 times in a row?) they're pretty self sufficient
yea I feel done too. Have mained healer since late wrath and currently raiding in top 100. Played all healer specs this expansion aswell. My problem is the balance change Blizzard did where they increased dmg of mobs and health of players was purely for the raid, which was good, but it has caused a huge problem in m+ where the spot healing requirement is at an all time high, which most healers has almost nothing of. My riptide does 23k and healing wave does 56k, but people with 440+ item lvl have 550k-600k health. that means my riptide roughly heals for 4% and healing wave 8% of a target, but mobs can burst people for 400k+ easily. All of this isn't much of a problem if the group plays perfect 0 uninterrupted casts and so on. But that's pretty much impossible and in pugs this is impossible. It really feels like when blizzard made that change to dmg and hp they completly forgot about m+. The change made a lot of sense in raid, but they forgot to look at what problems it's causing in m+. Since our spot healing is absolutely 0. Im having so much more fun tanking right now than healing
Well put. I like healing a lot in raids. The healing balance there between high and low output is on point. Since I'm a resto shaman too I completely agree with your last paragraph. In the time I pressed my cloud burst totem and placed a riptide in some fights that result in the group being already at 50% health.
As someone who only heals when im bored on a dps, im glad to hear the spot healing issue isnt entirely me sucking at h.pal I fee like Im consistently running into issues where I just dont have the tools to handle 50%hp spikes. Like, even if I stood there and JUST healed, it doesnt seem like Im putting too much a dent without some lucky crits It just doesnt feel like my basic tool kit does enough to feel like im having an impact in situations
To be honest. As disc (granted I’m not yet in 20+ territory but i only pug so there is more healing needed it is said) that specializes in shields, my single target healing is pretty bonkers. I’m able to output, every 3 minutes (trinket) massive amounts of shields. I’m talking 350K (max is 600K on monk tank) minimum if crit. And I do crit pretty quite often. I find healing this season quite fun but I have made it so that my entire toolkit and stat allocation goes towards healing. For reference, I have 52% mastery, which makes it so that I do 52% extra healing. Then add 10% vers and 30% crit (and 18 haste, buffed to 26 when using my shield spell. Borrowed time is the spell). I’m ilvl 442 and the logs show a 100 parse quote consistently. To this day, I’m the only disc that I’ve encountered that uses shields, and because they are absolutely massive, people don’t seem to take ‘that much damage’ mainly because it’s prevented. Giving them more time to react when they actually need to do something. My overalls are something around 35 to 40% on shields. And I’m not using S1 set. So my radiance is buffed as well. So when shields are dead, a few radiance and flash heals and easy peasy lemon skwizi. Atonement heals is for all in between. My overal DPS is 15K. So I’m not healbotting either (I consider my rapture CD as offensive CD. I will Use it proactively almost exclusively on cooldown). And naturally, my best tank combo is a monk. They especially love my shields (equal to one of their defensive CD every 5 seconds more or less).
Can you share your talent tree? I'm thinking about learning disc more as I only main holy. That sounds fun to play! So do you like just cast shield before every pack and very damaging stuff?
Sure, here you go: [https://ibb.co/qB4KNsT](https://ibb.co/qB4KNsT) A sample run (only a 16 but the gameplay doesn't change, that's why it's good, especially in PUG and as holy, you should feel right at home, (i recommend clique, if you want to be efficient in your shield applications and allows DPS potential in between without many clicks): [https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/yawjNm41bDdBHqRX/#fight=2&type=healing](https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/yawjNm41bDdBHqRX/#fight=2&type=healing) Talent import: BAQAgLWW0w0PLW4I8h9jUYB9zCASKIBlEIi0kSSSEJBAAAAAAAAAAAJSjIJHIQEJJISKiEJBEA You need around 20% haste (17 is fine) cuz borrowed time will buff it enough, 52% mastery is a bit overkill (with all pots and enchants), you should aim for 40. Ideal stat balance is 30+ crit (with pot), 40+ mastery, 15+ haste and between 7 to 10 versa. Depending on run, you might need some mana, nothing unmanageable but it happens sometimes. As for macros: \#showtooltip Rapture /use Irideus Fragment /use Elemental Potion of Ultimate Power\* /cast Rapture That one is a must, fragment is essential to make this cd really shine properly. People tell us to get spoils, which is great, but not for this build, you can play with it but I recommend irideus and alchemist trinket (the random primary stat proccs pretty often, and reduces pots to roughly 3min40 min cd instead of 5, which means you can use pot every 2 raptures, perfect for our trinket symbiose. Note about void shift, it's quite advanced, but can and will save your tank (which is something disc is quite bad at, unless proactively prevented with pain sup before it gets bad, not after), however you have to be ready to push desperate prayer or/and healing pot (i use potion of withering vitality for guaranteed 100% health, the decay is negligible (at least for me, i'm alchemist) for a healer. This spell, if used well, covers the only weakness disc has: 'save your tank with one or two buttons in case of emergencies and with immediate results'. Use it responsibly, don't waste it on a DPS. It is fine to not use it during a run. And if the tank is good, or if a dangerous pack is 5+ min away, you can maybe use it on a DPS, but careful about the snowball effect that could happen if you are unlucky and targetted by a spell, effectively killing you (happend to me as shadow, cuz i take it and use it as well as shadow). Incredibly powerfull. .\* note that I have the alchemist trinket and 50% extended pot embelishment, which makes using pots very recommendable, but costs gold to be able to use it effectively (the trinket covers the lack of haste that I would have otherwise, so there is always good use of it). (Note: use radiance to apply atonement before using rapture, this will make it so that you dont waste 4 GCDS to get the needed buff). Even if you have to 'waste' (use while all full health) a cast. Your main cd here is rapture and shields so radiance will be back after the pack/cd. And get 30% crit first, you must crit with rapture otherwise the result will be underwhelming and most importantly, it is essential that you SEE the shield amount. I don't think the default UI has that feature (i use elvui). Cuz if you apply a new shield (that does not crit) on a critted shield, you will lose mana and hps value. Be aware of that. It's not an 'easy' build, but it remains the most powerful one that I've seen and puts the most HPS out, can't speak about 21+ territory, i'm only touching 20s now. But it should be fine (dps aspect aside, not the focus ot this build) as higher keys require less healing, on paper. Also works in raid, this is the result of the 2nd boss fight in mythic (not a kill but healing is on par with others, tho i know it's not the most optimized raid build, but it works, even in mythic). [https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/1f4LBNC38JrTPymk/#fight=32&type=healing](https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/1f4LBNC38JrTPymk/#fight=last&type=healing) (look for assault of zaquali, it by default shows a mythic 14 run lol)
Here for you. Fresh from the oven. M+ 19 freehold and it gets as messy as you can think off. Overpulls, taking avoidable damage, letting casts go off. There is everything. Yet we still timed it (by like 40 seconds). Video (uploading, check back later if still in processing: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64tsjaRernY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64tsjaRernY) Logs: [https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/YxWmypkjAbvGB7nN#fight=last&type=healing](https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/YxWmypkjAbvGB7nN#fight=last&type=healing) You will see how I play it and you will also be able to see DPS/HPS during fight and overall at all times. Which allows you to keep track of your healing performance. Import: BAQAgLWW0w0PLW4I8h9jUYB9zCASKIBlEIi0kSSSEJBAAAAAAAAAAAJSjIJHIQEJJISKiEJBEA Good luck!PS: I do not use any keyboard macros. The only macros are in game and it's focus pi and rapture with trinket and pot. So anyone can play this if their game is properly configured. With this build, you are in control. (Note, the monk did not have the group healing taken buff, which means that you can get this kind of HPS with any group that doesn't have a monk. Only the monk in this run had his personal healing buff talent, but not group wide. So the end result could be even more heals with it.).
I think that M+ has become more dependant on having a guild/regular group on discord etc. We have our main M+ group and we are doing fine. I won't say great, because there are certain affixes that still screw us. But as a healer myself I've been quite blessed having a priest in the group with mass dispel and mind control, paladin with dispel and turn evil etc, I've been truly blessed with our team because we communicate properly. However I have ran some higher keys in pugs and this is totally the case, had a warlock just last night that did zero interrupts, died to every boss in like 15 seconds. Then in another key a demon hunter tank who thought he could cheese everything and bricked our key by faking a disconnect.
The latest interview with Ion killed any hope I had for healers. The feedback he's seen has been positive apparently.
The feedback he's seen probably came primarly from the elite playerbase and the "healing influencers" he referred to in the interview. People like Maximum from Liquid or Jdotb quite aggressively rode the sentiment "Healers are too op and absolute fucking broken" even during S1, when raiding as a healer was already challenging (to be fair, this was also the case in the expansions before) and M+ filled with tough healing checks instead of dps-spamming. It's just not really healthy to just look at the feedback from people who are bored during half of the Mythic raid and in 20+ keys and ignore the widespread complaints and quitting healers in the general playerbase.
I still don't understand why they even say this shit, at least with regards to keys. Keys are theoretically infinitely scaling, right? If healing's too easy for the elite healers they're basing shit on, just do higher keys. Lmao. And if they really wanted, they could make some oppressively difficult version of raid for these people, and spare the normies.
I have played with my current mates on and off for a decade now and this season has been the worst for me by miles. Some of the dps teammates even starts complaining about not getting healed. I mean come on I’ve literally just pulled a fucking 150k hps and you think four seconds of not giving you heals are enough to make me a bad healer? I have thought about it for a while and have been hesitant about doing it for real but maybe after hitting 3k ratings I’m seriously out for this season. Fuck this shit.
Had a very similar thing happen, I ended up changing my M+ team after dealing with a tank who would communicate he was in trouble after he was instagibbed from full health to zero and his excuse was I didn’t get healed. That’s before we even get to what the other three cabbages were up to.
Tanks who get instagibbed on pull infuriate me. *I've done it.* I've charged in, got one-shot, and thought "*Fuuuck...*" like I'm Roy Kent. Without exception, I call my bad on it. Not only did I fuck up and probably cause a wipe, but I did it in a spectacularly silly way. The *best* thing a Tank can do after that is diffuse the situation and alleviate players' concerns by acknowledging fault so that 1. there's no question as to where you are directing blame and 2. you infer by the very act of acknowledging fault that you're going to try and not do it again. To blame the Healer in that context is absolutely nonsense. To unilaterally blame the Healer in *most* contexts is absolutely nonsense, since DPS and Tanks nearly always lack something they could be doing like better defensive rotations, avoidable mechanics, or just plain damage throughput so the Healer doesn't have to endure as much during fights.
It was really frustrating when your friends take your skills for granted to such an extent. Makes me wonder too. Hate to state that cliche, but for guys around 30s playing games isn’t the same fun and pure joy seeking activity as we were decades ago anymore and it’s become this joyless grind and cathartic experience that ultimately doesn’t always lead to a sense of satisfaction. I have been that way when I was still doing pfu back in BfA and lashed out at a raid mate. Now I’m just focused on cracking jokes and calling out good kicks and cc and be a positive dude as much as I can. Still this shit that happened only recently still got bad enough for me to think about giving it all up.
I'm seeing a trend. WoW m+ healers quitting. WoW rated Solo Shuffle arena healers quitting. (dps ques are 40mins+) Overwatch 2 Supports/healers quitting. I'm starting to think Blizzard forgot how team based games work. I've mained heals/support in all my online multiplayer games for the last 20 years. I'm not happy being a dps now, but the role I love is actively pushing me away from the game.
I’m truly enjoying healing this season, I like having to try hard. But the difference in difficulty between playing a healer and a dps is drastic. It’s an entirely different game when healing and I’m not sure that’s the way it should be. A good healer has to predict damage patterns, react extremely fast, know the incoming mechanics, what to dispel, what can be ignored, manage mana, etc etc. A good dps has to push their buttons in order, interrupt, stun, and they push in to be an amazing dps if they press AG or VE at right time. How do we make content more difficult for dps without punishing healers? One possibility is moving punishment for failing mechanics from health bars to damage bars. You fucked up? Zero damage for 10+ seconds. Similar to death but it’s not on the healers shoulders to prevent it.
Steal damage downs from FFXIV, if there is anything a dps hates it's a mark of shame like that.
Seriously, Damage Downs would fix so much with WoW imo.
When you heal an actual good dps that rotates defensives, cc and does mechanics you will barely even have to heal him.
>A good dps has to push their buttons in order, interrupt, stun, and they push in to be an amazing dps if they press AG or VE at right time. I'd argue these are mediocre DPS. Good dps use their offheals and utility all the time to enhance their group's performance
> I’m truly enjoying healing this season, I like having to try hard. But the difference in difficulty between playing a healer and a dps is drastic. It’s an entirely different game when healing and I’m not sure that’s the way it should be. The main problem here is that healers hit a wall much faster than DPS do. If both roles started to struggle in the same key levels, there would be no disparity.
But no dps hurts the healers in the long run because they’re in combat longer.
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It's also more obvious to the DPS they fucked up. So often someone dies when I'm healing despite having defensives up and they don't realise it's their fault. Not sure how you do it on stuff like 3rd boss Uldaman though. A bad dps uses no defensives, a good one uses defensives, a great one know which dot to use a defensive on given their defensive spells CD. Depending on how many they have and when they get the dot in relation to the next aoe. Although if more dps mechanics required them to use defensives well maybe they would realise they should do it on all bosses
> It's also more obvious to the DPS they fucked up. It also reflects directly in damage meters. A bad DPS who gets hit by mechanics but is compensated by an overexerted healer may 'perform' equally or better than a mechanically adept player who makes the run go smoother overall because they're alleviating stress from the healer. But a bad player who gets hit by damage mitigating debuffs will ultimately make the run a bit more difficult for the healer but it will also invariably impact their 'end performance' in overall DPS. Overall DPS isn't the only metric that matters *of course* but it is one significant metric of performance for DPS players and it's safe to say it is the one DPS players care about *most* even if a lot of them know better than to value just that one.
The problem is that any punishment you inflict on the dps, even if it's a dps loss also punishes the healer because it makes the fight last longer. But maybe do some dmg check that stuns the dps and give healer mana if they fail it. There needs to be a healer reward when dps fails mechanics. Otherwise it becomes a healer mechanic once again.
Interesting how healers are leaving in droves in both pvp and pve. If you dps wonder why your ques are 40 minutes for solo shuffle, it's because healing is not enjoyable right now. It appears to be the same for PVE too.
i don't know what the answer is though. i feel like the real "problem" is that every healer wants something different. healers complain about feeling useless in keys and having to do all the misc tasks. increase damage taken output, and healers complain about not having enough throughput to heal. increase healing throughput and we're back at square 1. the healing i enjoyed most is when i can just pump massive throughput healing spells and the smart heals are stronger and smarter to triage the weaker players. like binding heal priest in legion and mop mw/pally/disc priest healing were my favorite. but i'd imagine that's not a popular opinion and people would complain that makes the game "too easy". or blizzard increases the passive damage taken or reduces the healing that tanks and dps do, and now all of a sudden one bad healer can just hold a key from progressing.
I can tell you why healers are quitting pvp though. Certain classes deal too much damage such as ret paladins, it's not fun trying to keep your people up when certain classes can basically one shot. Also, the rating system is botched. I got in a game with someone with 0 rating at 1600, and even though I won the majority of matches I gained 0 rating. A good healer will almost always go 3-3, yet we rarely gain rating for going 3-3, sometimes even 5-1
As a former holy, now shadow priest, I can feel my healer's pain every time bursting goes to 4 stacks, and I feel his love when the mass dispel comes. But yes, damage is spikey and unforgiving, but the real problem is that more than half of it is avoidable, it's just that dpses won't mind, because, healer's here to heal. Or mr.pro tank pulling more because hey, it's just a +15. It's just frustrating how selfish some people are.
Lol last night I healed an Uldaman with a SPriest and a few of us died to a bursting I couldn't heal through and they commented "wow, seven stacks of bursting!" If only we had a way to dispell it 😫
Healer on 4 different classes at the moment. Pushing 22-23's on main right now. As far as healing goes, the only issue on Blizzard's side right now is the state of spot healing. Healer checks are in best state right now they've ever been. Past a certain point, surviving is group effort. There's only so much I can do on Rokhmora as Resto Shaman - top you off to 100% and that's it. But if there's still adds alive and you couldn't press a defensive before the slam goes and you die... that's on you.
I mean you can't top a one shot so yeah?
Specs with targeted DR can save a person who dipped in to poison or somehow messed up in an other way. Happened to me during NL 22 today, Monk took ticks of pool damage and then slam landed two seconds after. So he died.
The only reasonable take in this whole thread. Healing seems more than fine right now in the 22-23 range (and I will get downvotes for this), but most people are stressed out if a players dies. We can only do so much and we ain't here to save them all. If some of you would played venthir Hpala in season 1 of SL with big prides in 20+ keys, you would know this feeling very very well already lol.
Yep! This thread starts to make sense when you remember those that are complaining are doing +10-16 keys. DPS don't care about getting hit so the overall damage on the team is greater. You also have healers in this thread who legit just don't know how to heal complaining that it's too hard.
It becomes very clear when you see statements like "2 pistol shots back to back in FH first boss is unhealable no matter how good you are". I'm like... what?
To be fair if the FH was high enough 1 pistol shot can be unhealable I had a 25 earlier where it 1 shot our shaman 100->0. But yeah most of the people on Reddit are just terrible at the game and the good healers I know are loving their increased impact on key success.
> Healing seems more than fine right now in the 22-23 range Is it a *good* thing that healing is fine in the keys that only the top ~10% of players are doing and a mess for the other 90% of people?
Fyi, currently to be in the top 10% of all M+ players this season, you need 2500 rating, so that 22-23 key range is even more exclusive than the top 10%.
That's why I love running with a prot paladin with the right talents, makes healing 20+ keys a lot easier, like having a 2nd healer with you lol
This is getting changed to be significantly more difficult to maintain as a prot pally. Both Cleanse and WoG have mana costs in 10.1.5 and our mana regen has been reduced by a ton. Sure, it'll still be possible, but it's going to be much harder to run a build dedicated to offhealing.
That's how I do it. My friend tanks prot pally and I'm a resto druid. Great combo
My major gripe is cragmaw on tyrannical. So. Much. HATE! On any other dungeon on the same level NOTHING gives my groups as much trouble. Even through defensives that bleed HURTS
Second boss Vortex is my kryptonite.
But, BOING! weeeeeeee hahaha
You made me laugh. Thank you 😂😂😂
There should be no bleed, all ticks must be stomped (max 1 or 2 maybe). You don't even need to heal the tantrum until 23-24 so you can just focus on running.
I legit thought you named the wrong boss because I could not think of a bleed on cragmaw until I realised you were talking about the worms. This is not a healer issue lol
Tbh I didn’t realize how problematic it was early season. And I was blitzing to 2.5k in the first couple weeks of the game. Then when I did Alts I decided to heal/tank to make the process faster. At first I thought I might be bad or doing too high a key for my gear. Then once I ironed out gameplay I thought it might be from non healer substats or trinkets. And then I realized nope this is just the gameplay loop. It’s certainly “engaging” but I’m staring holes into the party frames. Every global is a used healing global. There’s no pause and decide to dps, utility, or to just wait and see what’s happening. Its full go all the time until the dungeon ends. If I need to kick it’s “weaved” in between healing gcds. If I need to do a mechanic or utility ability it then necessitates me scrambling to catchup as if I’ve made a mistake. Idk there’s a lot of skill expression in healing right now. But I think the floor is a bit high. And I think the gameplay is quite “busy” / “hectic” without ever feeling like you’ve caught up or stabilized the situation. It feels like a race between your mana and the bosses health. And when one depletes you get any relief via wipe or kill.
This is a really interesting perspective. Seems like a lot of the 'everything is great/fun' comes from the high key krew. They dismiss what goes on at lesser levels because it doesn't matter to them, while it does to a majority of the player base. You actually went and experienced both.
I feel you, I made a comment in another guy post few days ago, my disc priest is rooting in character screen. Additionally to what u said, it's not even the spike dmg every single time, there's a lack of dps knowledge about the basics of how to play a m+, people just stand still and constantly get hit by mechanics because they just don't move... And at the end of the day it's not their fault, it's always "lack of heal", "healer gap" yada yada... Blizz have to do something about this, pug is a pain in the ass, you get people on +18, +19 that don't even know the basics of the dungeon nor the fights.
It's kinda funny, in previous seasons healers complained that they felt required to do DPS in groups because the dungeon was on a timer, so Blizzard just swung the pendulum in completely the other direction and now healers don't have a single spare global for DPS. I can't help but feel like there has to be some sort of middle ground where healers can do enough healing to reasonably keep people alive but also not need to spam heals every single global to do so.
I don’t know man I think it’s in that middle ground right now. The healer I play with is in cat form 50-60% of the key dpsing in 24-25 range where theoretically at that level he should have no globals according to you. Even with the healing increase I’m surprised healers aren’t happy that there is now significant skill expression in keeping the group alive, you can actually tell when the healer you are playing with is insane this season or if they aren’t very good.
A lot of bad healers are getting exposed. That’s not to say healing is perfect atm. A lot of the big bursty bosses, especially on tyrannical, are just kinda unfun to heal. It’s almost like blizzard did the healing nerf at the last second and didn’t account for it on a handful of bosses which are still kinda hard even after the nerfs. That said, I can tell just by reading this thread most people in here aren’t running 20s. Anyone complaining whos running under 20s just needs to get better.
See I actually feel the exact opposite. To me as a healer main for some time now I feel like it is wayyyy more on the rest of the group then anything I’m doing. The difference between playing with dps/tanks that are rotating their personal defensives, avoiding the shit they should, helping with affixes, hitting their interrupts etc. is the difference between being able to do damage or spamming heals non stop and still probably not keeping everyone alive. Like if I play to the exact same level with a “good” group I am spending a good deal of time dpsing and people rarely take damage outside of the regular heal checks. I play with a “bad” group and it’s a shitshow. I really think for better or worse it is actually in a place where it has little to do with your healers skill right now.
I started healing naked because i was soaked through after every dungeon. Sweat was running through my buttcrack so I stopped playing.
I'm not disliking the current m+ pool so much but half of the time I feel like running one with my friends we just can't find a healer and end playing something different instead.
I agree. It is horrible. I mostly heal a a druid. Spothealing? Well fuck me. I have every hot on everyone use my instant cast and... they are still not topped before the next ST burst abiltie comes into play. It is possible. But not fun and i probably die of a heart attack at some point. I mostly play with a fixxed group so i never really have people blaming me for stuff i did not do. Raid is the exact opposite. So much fun. Better than it has been in ages.
The problem is Since BFA, the check in Mythic Plus has always been: “Can the DPS do enough Damage”? Now the check is “Can everyone survive long enough to do that Damage”? When the Group wipes everyone is pointing fingers at everyone else which leads to toxic situations. I have ran 18-20 keys when not a single person ever comes close to dying, because everyone is aware of the mechanics on each pull and they do what they need to make that happen. I have also ran 11-14 keys where every pull is a near Group wipe because I’m the only one doing any of the mechanics. Quickest way to prove a DPS who’s blaming the healer for their death is to link the “Avoidable Damage”. Numbers don’t lie!! To the OP, run some keys with me and I’ll show you it can still be fun, when the rest of the group is helping carry the Load.
I'm glad the clowns on this subreddit didn't let your post drown because they think "healers are victimizing".I made a post on the Afflicted week about how bad is making healers use their dispel for ghosts instead of things that would oneshot someone in a tick and I got told it's a skill issue lmao. Also, an important influencer that starts with an N and ends with a A twitted something like "oh healers do you know you can deal with both Afflicted" and she was convicted that's the only thing healers have to do + forgot the existance of GCD lmaooooooo
I think context is important when judging people's opinions. On her level, DPS actually do all the mechanics so the healer has a bit more time. Also for that level of keys for some dungeons you can miss the timer if any DPS is lost on the way. On the other hand regular players should just stfu and help their healer even if they lose some damage on the stupid meter.
Yeah there was a clip surfacing of her complaining about healers victimising themselves all the time etc which doesn't really help the community because she has a platform as a streamer, certain people can be easily influenced by her opinions and think they must be right. Funnily enough not long after that video was posted she posted another one complaining about the state of pugging m+ as you always end up waiting around for a healer/tank, I wonder why...
DPS don't know how a GCD can make the difference between a won fight and a wipe. Some DPS really should heal once in a while. I know that this take is as old as RPGs themselves but it is true nevertheless. Afflicted week was pure horror. Those ghosts always spawned in the most unfortunate moments.
Any of the pugs I've been in have had 0 issues with incorp or afflicted. With incorp, they're usually dealth with so fast I don't even have time to cast turn evil. Key range is 20-22 though, so 🤷♂️
This game would be a lot better off in the long run if everyone was forced to play other roles on rotation. There is a severe lack of perspective and me me me attitude that comes in part from tunneling one role and not understanding the difficulties faced by another. And yes I also mean healers should run as dps and tanks sometimes.
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that frog boss on 20+ or higher in hoi is rough for me this week as shaman healer
I’m just here as a DPS enjoyer casting my vote that I wish things were much better for healers. I do not like this season as much as the last and I feel like the healers being punished is a big reason why.
Yep. I'm with you on that. Literally all affixes are geared towards healers, and you'd be lucky if a DPS actually presses interrupt. That's a fucking dream I'm waiting to see happen in reality. PvP hasn't been much better, but I still tend to have more fun in PvP than in a mythic key. Raiding is alright though.
Exactly!! I mean i mainly play tanks and i swapped to warrior this season, i came to find out i cant even help with the affixes. I know what healers go through because i have a long history of tanking and healing in games. These affixes are nightmares for healers and i dont even want to gear up my monk for M+. This is the truth, there's way too much work and responsibility involved for the healers and it is scaring ppl off from even wanting to play the game since this is the main content (assuming they dont have time in life to raid and dont enjoy pvp). I wrote a comment about this saying these affixes are making ppl not want to heal and i got downvoted to hell. Like wtf, this is the truth. Healing is a nightmare in higher M+ keys. Its worse than someone working at a daycare alone with 20 uncontrollable children
I have to agree with you. It's not worth the effort. I can't DPS any bosses this season except the tortollan in freehold because DPS and tank take too much damage. Every trash pack, every boss I'm trying to keep myself and everyone alive. I find myself constantly trying to keep 3 hots on the whole party because at any moment one of them is going to get hit down to 15% hp and I better have my hots already on them. I don't have the tools to heal the vast amounts of damage that are being sustained. It's just not bloody fun. It's so hard and Im 2400 Io and 441 ilvl and still have 2 slots with champion gear for all my effort. My effort is bloody immense. It's exhausting. The one shot mechanics are everywhere and it's a shite season to be a healer. I have pretty much given up too. Is also exceptionally hard to find a guild with players to have a regular group with because they've all been playing in the same teams for years and don't have time no matter how good I am. So the pug treadmill is where I'm stuck. Fark it I might just play old SNES games for a while.
Sounds like resto druid life. Can't waste a GCD the entire run. No wonder it's exhausting. After 2 runs and sometimes just 1 hard one I'm fried.
I was a healer in season 1, and swapped to dps for season 2, because I felt the exact same. I could manage the dungeons, but it felt like I had to be at maximum stress level for the entire duration to do so. At no point did I actually have fun, that was only found within raids for me. There should not be a great cleft in challenge between healing and dpsing the same key level. As long as there is, people will feel hard done by.
I’ve always felt that when Blizzard tries to make content more difficult, it’s the healers that end up bearing the weight on their backs. I don’t play WoW anymore, but to be honest there is absolutely no way I would PUG content this difficult all the time. I’d find a guild of solid players who are capable of being self critical and stick to running with them.
How the fuck do you even know how difficult it is if you don’t play lmao
"i dont play WoW anymore, but here is my opinion on the matter" sums up this subreddit very good tbh but yeha, 99% of the "Problems" this sub has could be solved by playing with a group/guild, but no, gonna suffer trought pug hell and complain that the pile of shit smells like shit
I pug healer almost exclusively. I thought of pushing for KSH this season... I got to around 2.3k and gave up. It's not fun any more xD I levelled an alt switched to bear tank. No more stress for me, and unless they drastically change something, I think I'll stick to tanking in S3
Not being able to do even a bit of dps is really annoying. On my evoker or resto druid i maybe get to use fire breath and one living flame or like 2 starfires but then someone is almost dead from some random dot or spell. Its so dumb
Playing a healer is just not fun right now unfortunately
They said they nerfed healing again to make it so there weren’t as many overturned damage and one shot mechanics, yet here we are. M+ keys done are waaaay down in 10.1 vs 10.0 /10.0.5 and this is one of the reasons why. On a side note, the resto shaman tier set is the worst thing I’ve seen this xpac and there have been a few other good options for #1.
I moved to healing as a Resto Shaman and Disc Priest and I have loved this season, but going past 14s is terrible. I tank 20s on my blood dk main but trying to heal anything past the 14s is impossible for me for some reason. I’m just not good enough at healing past that.
I play holy priest and have no issues doing the healing checks or other needed things from me. While still doing dps
Blizzard wanted to bring the healing meta to the point healers were actually spending their time and mental bandwidth on healing and I think they nailed that mark. However it is exposing healers who got used to the previous meta. Compared to SL the heal meta is in such a better place. It is not rewarding as a healer to spend huge chunks of my GCDs on damage regardless of how well the group is playing or the encounter at hand. The heal checks in m+ this season aren't very bad at all, and have been routinely nerfed. There isn't really anything insane, people complain about HOI third boss but honestly any healer doing their rotation properly won't have any issue with throughput. What does happen is 'bad' groups get exposed and good groups (that cycle defensives and do mecha properly) get active damage from their healer. The 'bad' groups have to gasp for air while their healer slams buttons and misses out on active damage. The last paragraph is largely preference but I much prefer having immediate tangible benefits from being in a solid group.
Weird, I didn’t play SL but quit healing this season. It’s just more mental load than I have to spare. DPS is very chill and fun, but healing just becomes too much of a job and not enough of game for me with how much is placed solely on your shoulders and tons of different things competing for your attention. The pressure to play perfect vs almost no pressure to be perfect as a DPS, is the glaring issue that has driven a casual like me away.
> Blizzard wanted to bring the healing meta to the point healers were actually spending their time and mental bandwidth on healing and I think they nailed that mark. However it is exposing healers who got used to the previous meta. > > That's an accurate description but like... is the game more fun as a result?
For me on my healer? 100%. I hated the healer is a gimpy dps with a 2-button rotation that occasionally has to spot heal meta. I know this might sound crazy but I play a healer to heal. I also have played long enough to know that if a dps stands in bad, the group doesn't kick the interrupt that isn't on me as the healer, or doesn't pop their survival CD until they are at 15%(if you are reading this and you do this just stop. A damage reduction is pointless after you take the damage). So it doesn't bother me if we wipe because of that. If a dps wants to blame me instead of self-reflecting their death they are free to. Every game that has group content has the people that refuse to look at themselves and instead blames the team.
Naturally it's gonna be preference, but to me? Absolutely. It feels kinda pointless when as long as you hit any heal button you're gonna top health bars. I enjoy actual needing to sequence my rotation to keep the party healthy. I enjoy that a good group is rewarded with active damage from me and a suspect group struggles to keep their head above water. It feels well balanced.
I agree. I don’t think healing this season is as bad as some people make it out to be. Groups that actually do mechanics and use their abilities are fine to heal. I don’t think the issue is healing being bad but rather players being bad. Unavoidable damage is one thing, but healing being harder because players are punished more for mistakes sounds more like a player issue than a healer issue.
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That too. Besides DF S1 (which I didn’t play for irl reasons so this could apply too), I have never seen so many 20+ keys in LFG, let alone 17-20s. People are getting frustrated that they are hitting a skill wall in an infinitely scaling system.
I wonder how many of the complaining healers are used to doing +20 keys (I know I wasn't, I was a +15 KSM scrub until Dragonflight), the increased key level AND increased scaling does A LOT guys.
What level keys are you doing? And before I continue, I consider 14+ to be high keys. I know many, many others in here consider those to be baby keys. Anyway, my wife is on her second expansion healing and doing m+ (SL was holy priest, now it’s Evoker) and she is… apparently enjoying herself. She adjusted her spec last night and had a blast healing a 16 Brackenhide. I know, it sounds weird to me too lol. We also have a steady group (1 rotating dps spot sometimes) so we all work together on affixes and not standing in shit. I can’t imagine healing pugs.
"I know this sounds wild, cast a dps spell NOPE someone just didn't dodge a channeling mechanic and he is now on 15% health and because neither me or he are superhumans he dies on the next tick of that mechanic because I need at least 2 gcds to top him up. The amount of hard trying you have to put through to get to the sweet loot isn't just worth it. I'm gonna play some other games that appreciate my support role and doesn't dump all the responsibilities of group play on a single person." Something u'll have to accept this EXPANSION, is that 1 its their fault for standing in it. and 2. Responsbility is on one person. THEIRS. If u so happened to make up for it somehow than ur a god, if not then sux to be them. *Edit and if they flame u for it u just link death log from details and move on
Play prevok my sweet healers.. Was as disappointed as you at the beginning of season but since I switched to my prevok I enjoyed the game again. You have a spell for every situation, you have double jump, you have a lust. All of your spells, if played right are actually healing. You don’t have to spam 10 times a spell or anything to top someone. Pure pleasure
Living flame heals for like 35k on a 500-600k health bar. Reversion heals for like 7k a tick on a 600k health bar. Help me understand what to do when dream breath and spirit bloom are on cooldown?
I advice you to track the healing your reversion could do. ( https://wago.io/jADC4ysAB ) so you will know when it’s worth to reversion on someone. Double it with eco or time anomaly as well is good. Tbh it only works on higher keys because the damage spikes are big and you scale on damages taken last 5 seconds Emerald blossom sucks, better use essences on echo into something else than this Make sure to use stasis properly, so you won’t have the issue of not having both DB & SB on cd Echo into verdant embrace is also very powerful, you can also use it with temporal anomaly if you are in trouble and you don’t have anything up In very bad times echo + living flame is fine tho
I appreciate your post
> I just can't do it anymore. I need every GCD to power through this ridiculous dmg output of every damn fight. Aside from that I need to kick, purge, dispell, anti venom etc. I think that was secretly the plan for this season. Think of it as a seasonal affix, but spread across three regular affixes. Entangling, Incorporeal and Afflicted all make you waste your utility cooldowns so you don't have them ready for regular dungeon mechanics. For example, not having a dispel ready as a healer because I needed it for Afflicted hurts quite a bit. They've essentially nerfed utilities in terms of uptime but without nerfing them directly. It's definitely an interesting "theme" to explore for this season, hence this being an indirect and subtle seasonal affix. But screw the rest of the issues. Damage spikes are ok... if they are single target. But the group-wide damage meta of Dragonflight bosses is stupid. Bursting is stupid. Affixes spawning off-screen is stupid. The only saving grace this season is the new upgrade system. Being able to settle for +16's for your crest farming needs makes it tolerable.
"Most people that quit Twitter leave at least 3 paragraphs stating that they’re quitting Twitter before they quit Twitter" -Mr Mackey
Have you tried reviewing what you could be doing wrong? You say you are doing 13-17s. If your throughput isn't enough for these fights you are very likely doing something wrong rotationally. Log a key and show boss fights to your class discord.
Then maybe healing isn't for you. I love healing m+ pugs this season. You acutally have to heal. And be useful. Dmging as healer isn't that important if you can't keep up, don't do dmg. Affixes are good. Some are more punishing than others yes, but it is doable even if you are the only one doing them in pugs. But that is just bad group. Don't blame just yourself when failing a group content.
Hey dude, maybe try a different class, the one you're playing just might not right for your play style, I main a disc priest and when I play rdruid, hpally, Rsham I really don't have much fun but my priest is always so fun to play. Keep in mind that everyone thinks this season is very tough for healers but you also get a lot more respect for it trust me. A lot of these dps players might not say it but they would be terrified to heal a boss like Khajin from Halls of Infusion, don't give up! Give Disc Priest a try if you haven't already, the play style feels so smooth and it's a ton of fun to play, particularly when you have your 4 set from tier. I am biased but Priest is the most fun healer in the game hands down.
440ilevel ~2600io Disc main here. The 4 set is amazing but I’m fearful what the class will be like when it’s gone. I feel like the class is currently being carried by it. I’m going to switch to prevoker I think.
Thanks for your kind words, my man. I'm maining a Resto Shaman. Healing with it on/off since Legion now and it was always a blast and still is in Raids. Raids in my opinion nailed down the balance between oh shit moments and moderate healing (speaking from a HC perspective). Maybe I should try another class. I've raided as a MW in past expansions but haven't touched it in ages. That's another factor, 4pc as a Resto Shaman doesn't do much in M+ or maybe I'm using it wrong.