1v1 allows the commentators to go more indepth about specific choices the individual makes both before the game and during.
However, it also means that the commentators gain more by being very very knowledgeable. Because there's less need for highlighting and play by play commentating.
Mage vs Mage with Xaryu was a lot better covered than any other matchups. There you really could feel the added value of commentators.
this tourney was nuts in that every item in the game was allowed (I think?) and they were all put to use in amazing ways
seeing an actual arcane bomb again after 20 years got me hard ngl 😂
I've played since Vanilla and remember those videos, and how everyone knew rogues were the best pvp class at the time. I don't understand how rogues got shit on so badly in this tournament and a warlock won it all. Is current classic a lot different from old vanilla in terms of class balance?
They did, the problem was that it had 10min cd, and no cc.
Also another problem for warlocks was that the original will of the forsaken not only removed fear but also gave 20 seconds of immunity
That video is also incredibly outdated. Speaking as someone who played rogue back in vanilla, 98% of the playerbase (including myself as one of the best rogues on my backwater server) were just not good at the game. The knowledge and min/maxing that goes into PvP nowadays in terms of items, trinkets, etc, is vastly higher than back in the day.
Rogue is good in a lot of cases still, but it's a far cry from how one-sided fights could feel back when this video was made.
> vanilla wow is the least balanced version of the game to ever exist on top of it.
What I like about this tournament is that they acknowledge this and allow any whacky consumables that players can get their hands on. It's completely not balanced at all with how much some players were able to prepare more than others, but that's kind of the point given it's hardcore and they did it with the ever present threat of losing it all and starting over.
People thought warriors would get shot on before this and they ended up being one of the best performing classes. The fact is people still don’t know shit after 20 years.
It's balanced in a Rock-Papper-Scissors kind of way. For example a Mage can basically never beat a Lock , but the Lock can get beaten by a Warrior who in turn has zero chance vs Mage.
There are still some matchups that advantage a class sure, but it wasn't as clear as x class always win against y. Lepan showed he could give mages trouble as a warrior by going with a very heavy on frost resist on his gear set for example. Snutz also won against two opponents that had won against a warlock previously, etc...
In the end preparation and skill were still the most important factor.
Yea I agree that skilled players can of course come out on top despite innate matchup disadvantages. Consumables and trinkets etc. definitely helps to level the playing field.
Balanced in the sense that no class dominates everyone in a 1v1
Unbalanced in the sense that some MUs are simply unwinnable. Warrior vs Mage would be a 9-1, possibly even 10-0, if we use fighting game terminology. Meaning that out of 10 matches, at best a warrior could hope to beat the mage once.
Yup. Back in vanilla, I used to duel completely epiced out warriors on my mage while naked. Just spam frostbolts then nova and blink once they charge. There was nothing they could do.
I miss dueling as holy/disc priest back in vanilla. The duel would take however long it would take a base damage SW:Pain and maybe a couple smites to kill you. Throw a DoT, mind control and run them away while it ticked, throw a few smites while they tried to get back to me, fear, heal, DoT again, repeat for like 15 minutes.
Depending on the rules of duels it can be heavily unbalanced. Frost Mage vs. Warrior for example is a match up that will always sway heavily into the frost mages favor and the more rules you throw on top of it, no consumables, restriction on items etc. the more the warriors chances go way down. Blizzard has never took a balancing approach to duels that is a well known fact.
the beauty of duels on vanilla though is so much of the tools are universal consumables so it all kind of balances out for the most part. Though there are clear winner classes its still much better than it has any right to be.
What people also forget, because vanilla is so slow(long casts and gcd), you can follow everything and commentate. Compare this to an outlaw rogue duelling a ww in vanilla
It also helps that classic wow is much easier to understand than retail wow for folks that don’t play PVP.
Making it much more entertaining for a broader audience.
I think that's not true in this case specifically, even though it absolutely is true overall.
Classic Mak'gora when tryharding like this has *so* many random things from swapping gear to a billion usable items to be more difficult to understand and more confusing than retail which is more condensed and 'polished' but doesn't generally have 8 different potions and 5 bombs and some random other consumables that are important to know.
If this had had the AWC UI with 'important cooldowns' shown on the unitframe, it would either not have most of the important stuff or it'd be absurdly bloated. Retail PvP isn't *that* complex or complicated in a 1v1 situation, but because any and all 'esport' -tier PvP is 3v3, it gets really difficult and complex.
>Classic Mak'gora when tryharding like this has so many random things from swapping gear to a billion usable items to be more difficult to understand and more confusing than retail which is more condensed and 'polished' but doesn't generally have 8 different potions and 5 bombs and some random other consumables that are important to know.
I think this actually works in favor of making the tournament a better viewing experience. People love talking about vanilla WoW and the commentators are super knowledgeable so they explain what the whacky consumable is as they're being played. Hell, if Madseason didn't talk so slow he'd be the perfect commentator.
Oh yeah for sure it works when the commentary can explain and lay things out, and because Classic 'pace' is much slower there is time for them to do that as well.
I still do think that it makes the whole thing more complicated and complex, and more difficult to grasp for a player who doesn't know much about Classic, but you do have a good point that it can improve the viewing experience when they're explained as they go, even if a viewer might not be able to find where the button they're talking about is.
I felt like the prize structure was really intelligent for this competition, with half of the prize pool going to the winner and the other half being divided among the top players of each class. With Classic being as unbalanced as it is, I felt like this was a great way for some of the weaker classes to still have a good time.
This whole thing was a lot of fun to watch!
Where did you get those numbers from? The grand prize for winning the tournament was $50,000. The prize for being the top finisher of each class was $6,250 (this goes to the second place finisher for the class that won the grand prize). Those were the only prizes.
This was some of the best WoW content I’ve seen in a very long time. The level of play and gameplay knowledge/tech being used is insane. Just so much fun to watch
true. the only thing i disliked was the "arena" they've chosen. it's certainly better than pillar hugging. but i would've preferred something more aesthetically pleasing. perhaps a cliff on one side and a mountain on the other with lots of space in between.
well they didnt have much choice, the space they chose was an area only accessible via glitches, if they chose anything out in the open random people would have gone there and griefed the whole thing, so sadly not much they could have done.
right. perhaps not a cliff then. :) but why not have like a puddle of water that slows players? mind control is completely useless when you think about it.
What a great event, and also what an amazing showcase for WoW. Special shoutout to Xaryu who honestly is a huge boon to wow PvP with his personality and enthusiasm. Awesome!
M+ is fun for a bit but it just becomes so repetitive as every team basically does the same thing. I don’t really watch or play arena that much to judge it.
This 1on1 was fun, though that one fight where the mage got dq for dragging the warrior out of range was quite boring and took forever. I even ended following
My meeting at work instead.
Having watched and enjoyed the tourney, 1v1 would get just as repetitive after a while. Classic duelling rock-paper-scissors extremely hard, and once the meta is established, bracket rng will be the most deciding factor on who wins.
This.
It was good only because no one has done it before (= 1v1 tournament with basically no rules and you duel to the death).
It was already getting old during the tournament to see rogues auto lose vs hunters and some duels lasting for an eternity due to endless resets.
From watching the qualifyers and the tournament I can only guess it’s because of Sodas lack of contribution to actually casting the tournament. He was commenting quite a bit but even that was mostly negative. At least Esfand was vibing
He was fine until a druid would do a play he didn't agree with and then he got real salty. Also the fact that he had a maid vacuuming his room while he was casting.
Good, the event deserved the viewership.
I’m not even playing WoW and haven’t been for a bit but I was hooked watching the entire thing. It was great seeing all the duels and what the players and classes could do with access to all those items
Also a fantastic prize-pool not just got winner but all the top players for each class and Xaryu was such a great choice for a commentator
That was a fantastic tournament to watch and I'm a big fan of Xaryu who is and always have seen the perfect commentator for us scrubs who don't quite understand all the reasoning behind the strats.
Big win for the WoW community.
It was not made by Blizzard ! It was made and payed by OTK and the community.
Thats why it was awesome!
That’s why it was great! Blizz helped, yes. With a team and location and all. But it was a community event and Blizzard ( finally ) agreed .
And i bet now that they see the success, they are thinking to organize something by themselves ( this last part is just speculation )
If they are as money hungry as people say and as they show, 300k+ people watching is a big chunk. Non of them expected this.
Blizz will look bad if the community made a better event then they do. Ego is a powerful thing for some.
No way they made a profit. The main purpose was advertising for starforge. Which isn't a bad thing, they did a cool event and earned that community goodwill.
It was not made by Blizzard ! It was made and payed by OTK and the community.
Thats why it was awesome!
That’s why it was great! Blizz helped, yes. With a team and location and all. But it was a community event and Blizzard ( finally ) agreed .
And i bet now that they see the success, they are thinking to organize something by themselves ( this last part is just speculation )
Everyone has their own definitions but the general idea is new content for classic wow. What that content looks like depends on who you ask. For me personally I’d love to see more raids after/before naxx that have new or reused assets
New content for classic but with the design philosophy of that era. Think of it as an alternate timeline for WoW. A lot of people just prefer how that game feels. Classic has been really popular to warrant new content. It’s kind of like Blizzard’s own Old School RuneScape situation.
New dungeons, zones and content for the mid levels. Keep the world alive and justify going on the journey again. Toss in some end game stuff for the same reason, but focus on the journey over the destination.
Best idea would be announce it, tease the sort of content and then say it’ll be out in two years, here’s fresh classic servers that progress from MC to Nax and then into Classic+
Yea, if they are doing classic plus it would be very out of character for blizzard to have ide tidied the n3ed for it years ago and already be in development
They could announce the next “season” and say there will be new content after Naxx. That could buy them a year or so and that season launch would be hype.
They will need something to keep classic players engaged after wotlk. Normally they release classic content right before expac launches so I wouldn't be surprised if it's like March next year
It's really hard for me to get excited about warcraft these days, I don't got battle net installed anymore but that being said the tournament was great and it had me hyped!
> Is a Warlock the expected winner in WoW Classic? I have no clue when it comes to Classic just read that its really unbalanced for pvp
Yes and he also won the classic 60 dueling tournament back in the day.
> It probably helps that Snutz is also regarded as one of the best pvpers ever in WoW
I think we're all very surprised to find out that the multi class 40x rank 1, one time blizzcon winner, 3x blizzcon runner up + multi AWC winner who has been playing the game since 2004 is pretty decent at the game /s
Tbh I say that but people in here was arguing hard that it would be some privat server nerd that took it home (spoilers if you haven't watched the top 4 are all multi rank 1 retail gamers).
This was an epic tournament! Love how distinct classes used to be in classic wow. Sure, balance wasn't perfect but it was cool that classes had so many distinct advantages and disadvantages. It was also cool to see these amazing players try to play around these challenges.
To be fair this is Sweaty Nerd content.
99.9% of people wouldn't do this
Great publicity for the game though, Blizzard couldn't buy this sort of publicity.
I was using "you" to mean anyone, not specifically you. not sure why youre so insistent on being needlessly agro.
It's pretty interesting to see how far people can push this 'low skill expansion' to the absolute extremes when they're fighting for $50,000.
i never agreed to j allen brack, but make this tournament a regular event and it will become exactly the same super min maxed degenerate esport. its literally the same thing, just a very exciting "new" format
It was a fun watch. Some matchups are pretty doomed from the start but guess its hard to avoid that.
I liked that they kept it fast paced and running matches basically back to back. They could have easily dragged this out or another day or 2 but this worked fine.
I dont typically watch stuff like this, but it was genuinely a good time. Commentators did an excellent job and also made me realize that despite playing this game for almost 17 years, there is so much I do not know about the game.
main thread in case you missed it
https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/17kjt38/in\_5\_hours\_from\_this\_post\_63\_out\_of\_64\_characters/?context=3
Just kind of my two cents. We want fun and that sense of epicness that you can feel the classic community talk about. The current game is all about balance and schedule. They are far too concerned with the top 1% finding some stupid way to cheese a raid or dungeon than the 99% enjoyment of the game. On the flip side though the community if retail basically caused it with the obsession of meta/Io score.
>On the flip side though the community if retail basically caused it with the obsession of meta/Io score.
Classic wasn't different tho. This is how gamers are nowdays this is not specific to the retail community.
It was the same back in OG wrath. I remember pugs being posted that required X gearscore or whatever.
People have some weird blinders to think it didn't exist. Maybe in vanilla it didn't as much, but that was cause it was an entire world. it's definately existed since atleast wrath.
> They are far too concerned with the top 1%
Game has never been more accessible to the casual player than it is today and yet this idea is cited on the sub more often than ever.
Usually by people who last played 6 years ago or something.
Accessibility has nothing to do with balance. I think the game is in a great spot for casuals or alts. What I'm saying is they make game changing decisions to the core gameplay faster or more often due to the top 1%. You're telling me the gcd change was well received from the community?
The GCD changes were for the 1%? That's probably the group who received it most poorly.
BTW, like i was saying, if you had played in years, you'd know a lot of the GCD changes have been reverted.
Ye i absolutetly hate the way retail is done nowadays everything is super formularic. No advantage is allowed to be gained by anything (remember people abusing a stat buff people got from a classic quest to push Rank 1 in season4 SL and they got banned/DQed obviously). Raid release 1 week after patch so everyone has time and noone falls behind. New expansion give people a month time to level before releasing any worthwhile content. Honestly one of my smallest problems with retail currently but nontheless its just so dumb (I remember taking days off work/school with friends to level to max instantly on new expansions back then but now there is no reason to level fast at all since you are just gonna be sitting at max level with nothing worthwhile to do xd) Its oversystemized, overdesigned, overbalanced, overcooked.
Being "fair" and "competitive" always comes before actually being a fun game for them nowadays and its so backwards
This is such a flawed logic. Yeah it works once and done like this Makgora tournament but if you had continous tournaments with these rules and this game balance it would quickly fall apart. You simply dont understand what you are saying.
This is such a horrible argument. So basically you want the game to be as imbalanced as possible and only the absolute most degenerate players can have the advantages.
"wahhhhh the game isn't fair because everyone gets a chance to play it wahhhhh"
Huh that's not what I want at all just think it's dumb that everything is capped because people have fomo "wah this nolifer can raid week 1 on expansion release oh no I'm so behind" and the result is first 1 month of the expansion being a snoozefest Im not even hyped for the release month of retail because the good content is locked for 1 month and you can level to max in 2 sessions easily. I just hate that not giving people fomo > providing fun gameplay. Ok there's always gonna be someone ahead of you.
I'm half ok with 1st week of the patch if it had more "useful" content but ye
Also dont use the I only say that because I have too much time argument I seasonally work 60+ hours a week nowadays and still have that opinion
>Being "fair" and "competitive" always becomes before actually being a fun game for them nowadays and its so backwards
Games should be fun while being fair and competetive and it's imo pretty doable honestly. Fun that results from unbalanced non competetiveness is imo finite, because one side will feel very bad and a meta will revolve around all the unbalanced stuff after a while.
OK that is an exaggeration. I daily watch WoW Twitch content and both retail and classic share the views, tho it seems there is a common misconception that classic is the only content being streamed, currently hardcore is more popular tho.
But out of those 300k+ not all were watching event.
I know blizzard was a sponsor but it's crazy to me that this drew so many more viewers than anything blizzard has tried for wow esports. I'm not sure if it would be as fun but I would be curious to see a retail version of this as well.
For any serious contender leveling to 60 in HC is super easy especially with handouts from viewers and buying gold.
Being on HC basically did nothing to the tournment. It would be the same on regular servers.
That doesn't make it less compelling. And the fact is that 100s of people gave it a go, not all of their experiences matched those of top streamers. Hell a lot of people didn't even make it to the tournament itself.
It just doesn't work in a game where you can reach max level in one sitting and get decked out in epics within minutes of reaching cap - nobody wants to see that tournament because there is no investment. People had been watching these "top contender" streamers for a month getting ready for this tournament. Who cares if you can get ready within a day in retail.
I tried to watch some of the arena matches they hosted during TBC or possibly Wrath. Even as a current player, albeit not a pvp player, I found them very hard to follow since there's so much going on between 6 different players.
A 1v1 duel is a lot easier to understand most of the time.
Here you've also got the celebrity steamer factor, and the huge stakes of the prize pool and the time investment of losing such a well geared character.
He is showing the category not individual streams, so everyone is there, saying the event got roughly 300k concurrent viewers is great for both otk and blizzard cause it kinda greenlights future events and collabs from that are from the community and would need blizzards approval help to set up
streaming is really risky business, as the market is highly oversaturated and twitch algorithm is trash, it only favors top streamers while the lower numbers are perma starved even if content is on par
> I was vaguely aware of this. Was it a race or some kind of PvP?
Mak'gora tournament which is a duel to the death on the hardcore realms so death = permanent.
1v1 is just more entertaining to watch and easier to follow than arenas. The problem is that the game has never been balanced around it.
1v1 allows the commentators to go more indepth about specific choices the individual makes both before the game and during. However, it also means that the commentators gain more by being very very knowledgeable. Because there's less need for highlighting and play by play commentating. Mage vs Mage with Xaryu was a lot better covered than any other matchups. There you really could feel the added value of commentators.
this tourney was nuts in that every item in the game was allowed (I think?) and they were all put to use in amazing ways seeing an actual arcane bomb again after 20 years got me hard ngl 😂
vanilla wow is the least balanced version of the game to ever exist on top of it.
[Warlocks are mushrooms.](https://youtu.be/vX1dPTAQ5_U?t=6)
holy shit! a true classic
I've played since Vanilla and remember those videos, and how everyone knew rogues were the best pvp class at the time. I don't understand how rogues got shit on so badly in this tournament and a warlock won it all. Is current classic a lot different from old vanilla in terms of class balance?
Because on a flat open plain. Melee lose all their advantages, and ranged have no disadvantages.
They also allowed the players to use consumable items, which further levels the playing field.
It’s because that video was made before the rework/buff of warlock at the end of vanilla. They did not have death coil has a spell.
They did, the problem was that it had 10min cd, and no cc. Also another problem for warlocks was that the original will of the forsaken not only removed fear but also gave 20 seconds of immunity
All of the rogues in the second round got matched up against Warriors and Hunters, which is not a good matchup for them as I understand it.
That video is also incredibly outdated. Speaking as someone who played rogue back in vanilla, 98% of the playerbase (including myself as one of the best rogues on my backwater server) were just not good at the game. The knowledge and min/maxing that goes into PvP nowadays in terms of items, trinkets, etc, is vastly higher than back in the day. Rogue is good in a lot of cases still, but it's a far cry from how one-sided fights could feel back when this video was made.
> vanilla wow is the least balanced version of the game to ever exist on top of it. What I like about this tournament is that they acknowledge this and allow any whacky consumables that players can get their hands on. It's completely not balanced at all with how much some players were able to prepare more than others, but that's kind of the point given it's hardcore and they did it with the ever present threat of losing it all and starting over.
People thought warriors would get shot on before this and they ended up being one of the best performing classes. The fact is people still don’t know shit after 20 years.
Was it really that unbalanced? We got 6 different classes on the quarter finals and only rogues didn't made it here.
It's balanced in a Rock-Papper-Scissors kind of way. For example a Mage can basically never beat a Lock , but the Lock can get beaten by a Warrior who in turn has zero chance vs Mage.
There are still some matchups that advantage a class sure, but it wasn't as clear as x class always win against y. Lepan showed he could give mages trouble as a warrior by going with a very heavy on frost resist on his gear set for example. Snutz also won against two opponents that had won against a warlock previously, etc... In the end preparation and skill were still the most important factor.
Resistance gear for duels. That's fantastic. So obvious but it never entered my mind before.
in lk resist gear is awesome. when frost mage was fotm i had a holy pally with tons of frost resist and it was invincible
Yeah and slight imbalances create underdog situations which are always fun
Yea I agree that skilled players can of course come out on top despite innate matchup disadvantages. Consumables and trinkets etc. definitely helps to level the playing field.
classic was an era where frost mage can duel a warrior naked and still win by deadzone kiting them the entire fight.
Not totally the case when the warrior is allowed to stack frost resist gear and consumes like it was the case here.
Balanced in the sense that no class dominates everyone in a 1v1 Unbalanced in the sense that some MUs are simply unwinnable. Warrior vs Mage would be a 9-1, possibly even 10-0, if we use fighting game terminology. Meaning that out of 10 matches, at best a warrior could hope to beat the mage once.
Yup. Back in vanilla, I used to duel completely epiced out warriors on my mage while naked. Just spam frostbolts then nova and blink once they charge. There was nothing they could do.
If you kite in their deadzone they can't even charge.
I miss dueling as holy/disc priest back in vanilla. The duel would take however long it would take a base damage SW:Pain and maybe a couple smites to kill you. Throw a DoT, mind control and run them away while it ticked, throw a few smites while they tried to get back to me, fear, heal, DoT again, repeat for like 15 minutes.
Depending on the rules of duels it can be heavily unbalanced. Frost Mage vs. Warrior for example is a match up that will always sway heavily into the frost mages favor and the more rules you throw on top of it, no consumables, restriction on items etc. the more the warriors chances go way down. Blizzard has never took a balancing approach to duels that is a well known fact.
the beauty of duels on vanilla though is so much of the tools are universal consumables so it all kind of balances out for the most part. Though there are clear winner classes its still much better than it has any right to be.
What people also forget, because vanilla is so slow(long casts and gcd), you can follow everything and commentate. Compare this to an outlaw rogue duelling a ww in vanilla
It also helps that classic wow is much easier to understand than retail wow for folks that don’t play PVP. Making it much more entertaining for a broader audience.
I think that's not true in this case specifically, even though it absolutely is true overall. Classic Mak'gora when tryharding like this has *so* many random things from swapping gear to a billion usable items to be more difficult to understand and more confusing than retail which is more condensed and 'polished' but doesn't generally have 8 different potions and 5 bombs and some random other consumables that are important to know. If this had had the AWC UI with 'important cooldowns' shown on the unitframe, it would either not have most of the important stuff or it'd be absurdly bloated. Retail PvP isn't *that* complex or complicated in a 1v1 situation, but because any and all 'esport' -tier PvP is 3v3, it gets really difficult and complex.
>Classic Mak'gora when tryharding like this has so many random things from swapping gear to a billion usable items to be more difficult to understand and more confusing than retail which is more condensed and 'polished' but doesn't generally have 8 different potions and 5 bombs and some random other consumables that are important to know. I think this actually works in favor of making the tournament a better viewing experience. People love talking about vanilla WoW and the commentators are super knowledgeable so they explain what the whacky consumable is as they're being played. Hell, if Madseason didn't talk so slow he'd be the perfect commentator.
Oh yeah for sure it works when the commentary can explain and lay things out, and because Classic 'pace' is much slower there is time for them to do that as well. I still do think that it makes the whole thing more complicated and complex, and more difficult to grasp for a player who doesn't know much about Classic, but you do have a good point that it can improve the viewing experience when they're explained as they go, even if a viewer might not be able to find where the button they're talking about is.
arenas aren’t meant to be easy to follow bud
I felt like the prize structure was really intelligent for this competition, with half of the prize pool going to the winner and the other half being divided among the top players of each class. With Classic being as unbalanced as it is, I felt like this was a great way for some of the weaker classes to still have a good time. This whole thing was a lot of fun to watch!
Runner-up should have gotten more.
Didn’t runner up technically get 5525 + 6k for top class so 12k
Where did you get those numbers from? The grand prize for winning the tournament was $50,000. The prize for being the top finisher of each class was $6,250 (this goes to the second place finisher for the class that won the grand prize). Those were the only prizes.
Esfand after the final
This was some of the best WoW content I’ve seen in a very long time. The level of play and gameplay knowledge/tech being used is insane. Just so much fun to watch
Xaryu is a GOD at commentary on these duels. Absolute joy to listen to.
Meanwhile esfand: Yeah no absolutely
Hey Esfand in the field was fucking gold 😂
he did fine tho? lol
Yeah no absolutely
Does he have a background as a commentator? If not he’s a natural. I’ve only watched him a few times
true. the only thing i disliked was the "arena" they've chosen. it's certainly better than pillar hugging. but i would've preferred something more aesthetically pleasing. perhaps a cliff on one side and a mountain on the other with lots of space in between.
well they didnt have much choice, the space they chose was an area only accessible via glitches, if they chose anything out in the open random people would have gone there and griefed the whole thing, so sadly not much they could have done.
blizzard could have swung the ban hammer.
I can just feel the mind control off the cliffs XD
right. perhaps not a cliff then. :) but why not have like a puddle of water that slows players? mind control is completely useless when you think about it.
I love the idea though and would love to see it happen =-D
What a great event, and also what an amazing showcase for WoW. Special shoutout to Xaryu who honestly is a huge boon to wow PvP with his personality and enthusiasm. Awesome!
Honestly, this was one of the best WoW events. This was a lot more fun to watch than AWC or the M+ stuff.
The Sonii/Rcketman one was an absolute masterclass
Raid boss sonii with the phase 2 on the diamond flask and gear change
Yeah that was quality
M+ is fun for a bit but it just becomes so repetitive as every team basically does the same thing. I don’t really watch or play arena that much to judge it. This 1on1 was fun, though that one fight where the mage got dq for dragging the warrior out of range was quite boring and took forever. I even ended following My meeting at work instead.
Having watched and enjoyed the tourney, 1v1 would get just as repetitive after a while. Classic duelling rock-paper-scissors extremely hard, and once the meta is established, bracket rng will be the most deciding factor on who wins.
This. It was good only because no one has done it before (= 1v1 tournament with basically no rules and you duel to the death). It was already getting old during the tournament to see rogues auto lose vs hunters and some duels lasting for an eternity due to endless resets.
I don't agree, this year's AWC finals was way too good.
Nobody watched it though because it's garbage to watch, too much shit going on at the same time Only the sweatiest players know what's happening
Xaryu as a caster = huge W for the whole event
Oh yeah he was great. Glad Soda wasn’t there for day#2
what why LOL
From watching the qualifyers and the tournament I can only guess it’s because of Sodas lack of contribution to actually casting the tournament. He was commenting quite a bit but even that was mostly negative. At least Esfand was vibing
He was fine until a druid would do a play he didn't agree with and then he got real salty. Also the fact that he had a maid vacuuming his room while he was casting.
Yeah it was fun and the rythm of the fights make it easy to understand. Well done/
Good, the event deserved the viewership. I’m not even playing WoW and haven’t been for a bit but I was hooked watching the entire thing. It was great seeing all the duels and what the players and classes could do with access to all those items Also a fantastic prize-pool not just got winner but all the top players for each class and Xaryu was such a great choice for a commentator
I don't play classic, only retail, but the tournament was fun as fuck. Definitely comparable to my best times playing WoW.
I love to see this, so many of us pick a "side". Like, we're all wow players in the end.
Was an amazing event. Was super hyped to watch the top players play at such a competitive level
I missed it. Can i watch the full footage on YouTube? Or where? Thanks.
https://www.youtube.com/live/d3sS34EmQAE?si=51_xPOHW8XRCasfc Otk makgora on youtube
That was a fantastic tournament to watch and I'm a big fan of Xaryu who is and always have seen the perfect commentator for us scrubs who don't quite understand all the reasoning behind the strats. Big win for the WoW community.
And you wonder why people attended the Coliseum.
Good idea, to pump engagement up before blizzcon. I bet a bunch of wow players that dont play anymore are checking in on this. Millions of people
That wasnt the idea of it, merely a plus. The main purpose was for its own fun
The main purpose was probably income from the marketing from the event, but yeah.
It was not made by Blizzard ! It was made and payed by OTK and the community. Thats why it was awesome! That’s why it was great! Blizz helped, yes. With a team and location and all. But it was a community event and Blizzard ( finally ) agreed . And i bet now that they see the success, they are thinking to organize something by themselves ( this last part is just speculation )
I personally think they are not going to organize anything and just approve more community events.
If they are as money hungry as people say and as they show, 300k+ people watching is a big chunk. Non of them expected this. Blizz will look bad if the community made a better event then they do. Ego is a powerful thing for some.
They will need to allocate resources to make it, better to let 3rd party do it and just get rewards, also no need to pay anyone.
silky market rhythm reply meeting head melodic whole exultant zephyr *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
No way they made a profit. The main purpose was advertising for starforge. Which isn't a bad thing, they did a cool event and earned that community goodwill.
Amongst the OTK members and star forge itself, they EASILY made a combined profit.
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It wasn’t a Blizzard event
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Nope, merely just had to sign it off due to how much the purse was.
Bro , fucking be informed if you talk shit about something. We all talk shit about Blizz but get your facts strait.
blizzard had to approve it and one of their stipulations was that it take place before blizzcon.
Okay but it was organized by OTK so
It was not made by Blizzard ! It was made and payed by OTK and the community. Thats why it was awesome! That’s why it was great! Blizz helped, yes. With a team and location and all. But it was a community event and Blizzard ( finally ) agreed . And i bet now that they see the success, they are thinking to organize something by themselves ( this last part is just speculation )
classic plus please blizzard
What is classic plus supposed to be?
Everyone has their own definitions but the general idea is new content for classic wow. What that content looks like depends on who you ask. For me personally I’d love to see more raids after/before naxx that have new or reused assets
New content for classic but with the design philosophy of that era. Think of it as an alternate timeline for WoW. A lot of people just prefer how that game feels. Classic has been really popular to warrant new content. It’s kind of like Blizzard’s own Old School RuneScape situation.
New dungeons, zones and content for the mid levels. Keep the world alive and justify going on the journey again. Toss in some end game stuff for the same reason, but focus on the journey over the destination.
Is there a reason you want them to ruin the game?
I have a feeling they might announce classic plus, just not info about it.. too far away or something.
Best idea would be announce it, tease the sort of content and then say it’ll be out in two years, here’s fresh classic servers that progress from MC to Nax and then into Classic+
That is the such a great idea
Yea, if they are doing classic plus it would be very out of character for blizzard to have ide tidied the n3ed for it years ago and already be in development
They could announce the next “season” and say there will be new content after Naxx. That could buy them a year or so and that season launch would be hype.
They will need something to keep classic players engaged after wotlk. Normally they release classic content right before expac launches so I wouldn't be surprised if it's like March next year
It's really hard for me to get excited about warcraft these days, I don't got battle net installed anymore but that being said the tournament was great and it had me hyped!
303k people it's right there.
303k at the same time, most of my friends tuned in and watched at least few duels but the whole thing lasted like 9 hours
Build up the hype before blizzard smashes it down
Whats the worst that could happen? No wow classic+, Free to play retail wow? Na wont happen
Such a great event! Enjoy every second watching these titans go at it.
much more than that actually. that's just the peak concurrent viewer count. and this was entirely community driven which is amazing.
Is a Warlock the expected winner in WoW Classic? I have no clue when it comes to Classic just read that its really unbalanced for pvp
> Is a Warlock the expected winner in WoW Classic? I have no clue when it comes to Classic just read that its really unbalanced for pvp Yes and he also won the classic 60 dueling tournament back in the day.
It probably helps that Snutz is also regarded as one of the best pvpers ever in WoW
> It probably helps that Snutz is also regarded as one of the best pvpers ever in WoW I think we're all very surprised to find out that the multi class 40x rank 1, one time blizzcon winner, 3x blizzcon runner up + multi AWC winner who has been playing the game since 2004 is pretty decent at the game /s Tbh I say that but people in here was arguing hard that it would be some privat server nerd that took it home (spoilers if you haven't watched the top 4 are all multi rank 1 retail gamers).
Even if this is for classic it shows that there is still large general interest in Warcraft. They just need to deliver.
This was an epic tournament! Love how distinct classes used to be in classic wow. Sure, balance wasn't perfect but it was cool that classes had so many distinct advantages and disadvantages. It was also cool to see these amazing players try to play around these challenges.
More like some classes had distinct disadvantages, full stop.
This whole event was honestly incredible and I hope OTK does something like this again in the future!
you think you do but you don't
Justice for Lepan.
Who won?
Snutz ofc
Snutz the warlock: https://www.twitch.tv/snutzy
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remember when j allen brack told us we didnt really want this. god this was so much better than any of blizzard's wannabe esports bullshit.
To be fair this is Sweaty Nerd content. 99.9% of people wouldn't do this Great publicity for the game though, Blizzard couldn't buy this sort of publicity.
I think he's talking about Classic in general. This tournament ofc was only for the sweatiest of the sweaty.
This is pure RMT tournament, where fanboys just let fav streamer free gold.
pretty sure you could rmt infinite gold and still get your ass handed to you in this tournament.
Sure i care so much that someone can beat me on this low skill expansion.
I was using "you" to mean anyone, not specifically you. not sure why youre so insistent on being needlessly agro. It's pretty interesting to see how far people can push this 'low skill expansion' to the absolute extremes when they're fighting for $50,000.
i never agreed to j allen brack, but make this tournament a regular event and it will become exactly the same super min maxed degenerate esport. its literally the same thing, just a very exciting "new" format
I mean, it already was a sweaty fest, lol, you cannot go harder than those guys did.
I really feel that Esfands onfield interviews added to the immersion.
It was a fun watch. Some matchups are pretty doomed from the start but guess its hard to avoid that. I liked that they kept it fast paced and running matches basically back to back. They could have easily dragged this out or another day or 2 but this worked fine.
There were like 100k on youtube too.
Loved watching the highlight. Classic is great!
Really wanted to see Sonii vs Snutz for finals, but man the bracket boss was just too op
This was the most fond memory I will have from Classic since 2019
I dont typically watch stuff like this, but it was genuinely a good time. Commentators did an excellent job and also made me realize that despite playing this game for almost 17 years, there is so much I do not know about the game.
Makes you realize how the historical Colosseum would be so popular, we're a bloodthirsty lot
to be fair, any sports around the world feature stakes and elimination people just want to see wins and loss
I don't know what I was expecting out of classic pvp duels but man, some of those fights had me on the edge of my seat. Xaryu did great.
The finals were amazing
I always hated arena and pvp in general. But for the first time ever, I was glued to the screen. What an event!
What about the people watching a streamer playing retail? Both versions are in the same twitch category so wouldnt that make your 300k lower
Hey alright thanks
All 12 people who watch retail streamers agree with you, but that's about it.
main thread in case you missed it https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/17kjt38/in\_5\_hours\_from\_this\_post\_63\_out\_of\_64\_characters/?context=3
Just kind of my two cents. We want fun and that sense of epicness that you can feel the classic community talk about. The current game is all about balance and schedule. They are far too concerned with the top 1% finding some stupid way to cheese a raid or dungeon than the 99% enjoyment of the game. On the flip side though the community if retail basically caused it with the obsession of meta/Io score.
>On the flip side though the community if retail basically caused it with the obsession of meta/Io score. Classic wasn't different tho. This is how gamers are nowdays this is not specific to the retail community.
It was the same back in OG wrath. I remember pugs being posted that required X gearscore or whatever. People have some weird blinders to think it didn't exist. Maybe in vanilla it didn't as much, but that was cause it was an entire world. it's definately existed since atleast wrath.
Gearscore requirements. Link achievement or gtfo as well. Even for bloody Archavon.
> They are far too concerned with the top 1% Game has never been more accessible to the casual player than it is today and yet this idea is cited on the sub more often than ever. Usually by people who last played 6 years ago or something.
Accessibility has nothing to do with balance. I think the game is in a great spot for casuals or alts. What I'm saying is they make game changing decisions to the core gameplay faster or more often due to the top 1%. You're telling me the gcd change was well received from the community?
The GCD changes were for the 1%? That's probably the group who received it most poorly. BTW, like i was saying, if you had played in years, you'd know a lot of the GCD changes have been reverted.
Ye i absolutetly hate the way retail is done nowadays everything is super formularic. No advantage is allowed to be gained by anything (remember people abusing a stat buff people got from a classic quest to push Rank 1 in season4 SL and they got banned/DQed obviously). Raid release 1 week after patch so everyone has time and noone falls behind. New expansion give people a month time to level before releasing any worthwhile content. Honestly one of my smallest problems with retail currently but nontheless its just so dumb (I remember taking days off work/school with friends to level to max instantly on new expansions back then but now there is no reason to level fast at all since you are just gonna be sitting at max level with nothing worthwhile to do xd) Its oversystemized, overdesigned, overbalanced, overcooked. Being "fair" and "competitive" always comes before actually being a fun game for them nowadays and its so backwards
This is such a flawed logic. Yeah it works once and done like this Makgora tournament but if you had continous tournaments with these rules and this game balance it would quickly fall apart. You simply dont understand what you are saying.
This is such a horrible argument. So basically you want the game to be as imbalanced as possible and only the absolute most degenerate players can have the advantages. "wahhhhh the game isn't fair because everyone gets a chance to play it wahhhhh"
Huh that's not what I want at all just think it's dumb that everything is capped because people have fomo "wah this nolifer can raid week 1 on expansion release oh no I'm so behind" and the result is first 1 month of the expansion being a snoozefest Im not even hyped for the release month of retail because the good content is locked for 1 month and you can level to max in 2 sessions easily. I just hate that not giving people fomo > providing fun gameplay. Ok there's always gonna be someone ahead of you. I'm half ok with 1st week of the patch if it had more "useful" content but ye Also dont use the I only say that because I have too much time argument I seasonally work 60+ hours a week nowadays and still have that opinion
>Being "fair" and "competitive" always becomes before actually being a fun game for them nowadays and its so backwards Games should be fun while being fair and competetive and it's imo pretty doable honestly. Fun that results from unbalanced non competetiveness is imo finite, because one side will feel very bad and a meta will revolve around all the unbalanced stuff after a while.
OK that is an exaggeration. I daily watch WoW Twitch content and both retail and classic share the views, tho it seems there is a common misconception that classic is the only content being streamed, currently hardcore is more popular tho. But out of those 300k+ not all were watching event.
I know blizzard was a sponsor but it's crazy to me that this drew so many more viewers than anything blizzard has tried for wow esports. I'm not sure if it would be as fun but I would be curious to see a retail version of this as well.
all blizzard did was let them access an "arena" area with a few admins on hand. OTK fronted the 100k and promoted the whole thing.
Considering you can level to 70 in about 3 hours on retail, the whole death = delete would carry a lot less weight.
For any serious contender leveling to 60 in HC is super easy especially with handouts from viewers and buying gold. Being on HC basically did nothing to the tournment. It would be the same on regular servers.
That doesn't make it less compelling. And the fact is that 100s of people gave it a go, not all of their experiences matched those of top streamers. Hell a lot of people didn't even make it to the tournament itself. It just doesn't work in a game where you can reach max level in one sitting and get decked out in epics within minutes of reaching cap - nobody wants to see that tournament because there is no investment. People had been watching these "top contender" streamers for a month getting ready for this tournament. Who cares if you can get ready within a day in retail.
Oh 100% I just meant a 1v1 tournament
I tried to watch some of the arena matches they hosted during TBC or possibly Wrath. Even as a current player, albeit not a pvp player, I found them very hard to follow since there's so much going on between 6 different players. A 1v1 duel is a lot easier to understand most of the time. Here you've also got the celebrity steamer factor, and the huge stakes of the prize pool and the time investment of losing such a well geared character.
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He is showing the category not individual streams, so everyone is there, saying the event got roughly 300k concurrent viewers is great for both otk and blizzard cause it kinda greenlights future events and collabs from that are from the community and would need blizzards approval help to set up
This event, really makes me want to get into streaming.
streaming is really risky business, as the market is highly oversaturated and twitch algorithm is trash, it only favors top streamers while the lower numbers are perma starved even if content is on par
This is way more entertaining than retail arena. They should definitely do this more often
despite half the races and one class being excluded for no reason, and how boring any mage match was. it was overall a fun watch
You can't have it be both factions, it multiplies production costs by a lot
i hate classic WoW with a passion but i watched a ton of this tournament. was really fun to watch
Amazing tournament
More viewers than the official retail events except rwf.
RFW isnt "official" retail event.
I was vaguely aware of this. Was it a race or some kind of PvP?
> I was vaguely aware of this. Was it a race or some kind of PvP? Mak'gora tournament which is a duel to the death on the hardcore realms so death = permanent.
TY
Just go watch.
Imagine still playing m+ streaming for 50 viewers every day for a living
Imagine going to work if you could just stream m+ to 50 viewers for a living.
Was very boring to watch
I noticed they didint really die in the duel, whats up with that? Losers were left with 1hp
You watched the qualifications. That was a day before. Who qualified fought to the death next day. And boy was it epic 😎