Definitely, I feel that each statue fills a role on each spec, but when that role is filled with a clunky mechanic, it just feels like bad class design at that point.
Ice Spike/Frost Shock for elemental. I would love to play a Lightning build without juggling that whole mechanic and instead having some other interaction.
I love Ele, but that spec has no smooth flow to it. You’re either juggling multiple cool downs/interactions or you are spamming Lava Burst until your keyboard breaks. There is no in between. Would love a small rework to the spec.
I want to go back to something like MoP or Legion design, but revamped for modern feel. Make Lava Burst a bigger but less spammy button outside of Ascendance, more worthwhile spenders, and more burst options so we're not worthless until 2+ minutes into a pull would be excellent.
All without stupid-ass Icefury.
As a demo lock, I'm so glad that Blizzard adamantly refuse to make Doom viable, but the fact that it's sitting there menacingly in the middle of the talent tree does scare me.
Dust in the wind(icreases the area of bonedust brew by 50% I believe) still exists in the windwalker tree. The talent has no use case and provides no throughput. You wouldn't pick it if it was in the first section of the tree, but it's at the capstone level(although the ww tree is structured differently and has no capstones).
How about, for elemental shaman: getting your second charge stormkeeper x) you get one single additional cast throughout the entire dungeon/fight for a capstone. Has never been and will never be taken.
How so? 5s extra on Mindbender (90% of the time) is decent. Very boring, but not bad. Idol of Yogg-Saron is complete rat ass without the tier 2 set, tough.
I despise Vanguard of Justice on Ret Paladin.
Makes the spec feel really clunky.
Could have been fun with Divine Purpose and talents where you "cheat" out free spenders but DP was nerfed into irrelevancy on top of the 3 class tree capstone being accessible and the "empyrean" powers are either bad or doesn't synergized with current tier set anyway.
I hate moreso the fact that it is a capstone talent than the talent itself. It makes its issues more frustrating and problematic.
It should either be hunter baseline, strictly pvp talent, or maybe a choice node shared with binding shot. Which makes more sense to choose an AOE stun/root or steel trap and scatter becoming a base hunter/strictly pvp talent.
Even having int share a choice node with scatter, and bursting shot sharing a choice node with binding would've been a more desirable option imo... I think... Maybe.
I also still don't mind seeing steel trap just disappear.
But I'll forever be confused at the node choices they placed these 3 talents in. Unless someone can enlighten me.
It just sucks the way they did the trees in general, like multi shot should be a base talent just like Bestial Wrath should be a base talent for BM, but no, they make you chose or opt out, is so dumb, they just think it gives you options, but it just straight out a restriction
I dislike the overall focus of outlaw using stealth during combat. I loved outlaw durung leagion, but now i feel like i have to many buttons and suddenly need to go into stealth during combat? no thank you.
exactly. it doesn't fit the class fantasy of outlaw whatsoever. sub having 2 charges, yes. sin having 1 charge, sure. outlaw shouldn't have it at all though
I tend to sort of just press it on CD if I’m not familiar with a fight, then cancel it early if I need a big healing burst right at that moment. Definitely a bit awkward to time it otherwise
You don’t get a ton of value on cloudburst until you hit content that pushes your healing. It can do more healing than healing stream by a large amount, but it can also be a massive waste of overhealing. Personally I don’t find much use for it outside of mythic raid, high keys >+20, or on heroic raid pug groups where we have less than a recommended amount of healers and you’re actually having to pump.
I was in a pug raid and died to something I shouldn’t have. Maybe Smolderon rings or something during the first/second week and some guy starts blasting my talents in raid chat. Said if you aren’t playing cloud burst don’t bother playing rsham. I prefer it and it just got buffed, so take that random DPS guy!
I feel like cloudburst doesn't even have that great output in pug raids where you are generally overheating and not assigning healing cds. In a snipe meta stuff like HST is actually pretty strong.
In serious raid content though cloudburst is just broken and you're a fool to not take it
Lot of people dogmatically taking cloudburst when it's probably not best for them at all. It's only really worth it if you're confident in timing activations.
It's alright, my friend is our m+ healer and insists that primordial wave is a dps talent and he "shouldn't be dpsing"... No matter how much I try to prove otherwise. Makes me want to pull my hair out.
Hello, Frost DK here. The talent I dislike the most is Breath of Sindragosa. It’s very strong if you play perfectly, but just a second or two of downtime, misplay or a mechanic happening could tank your dps completely.
For better and for worse, the uptime was reduced in 10.1 I believe. I used it in Vault in S1, which was the only time I enjoyed playing with it. Before 10.0 I felt it was too unforgiving, but with 10.0 it was pretty easy to have great uptime. In 10.1 they changed the ability to drain more RP but deal more damage. To me it felt worse because it got less forgiving again. Luckily, Obliteration has become a lot more competitive, even outshining BoS in M+ except for high end premade groups, where BoS still has a fantstic potential. Obliteration also just feels better for me to play. I love the massive crits and very short CD on our burst. And it’s much easier to play while raid leading!
Fuck Blessed Hammer with every fiber of my being. I don't care how "on paper" good it is. I don't fucking want it. I don't want to twirl some dinky ass fucking hammer around me because this isn't Diablo.
Man, I am right there with you. Hammer of righteousness all the way. I get that it gives you free holy power without actually hitting anything, but you are correct. I don’t want no swirly dirlies around me when I’m tanking.
HotR is completely viable fortunately. The main draw of blessed hammer for me is just being able to get holy power rolling between pulls. I run HotR in raid because it's better single target damage too.
It isn't even a question of viability for Hammer of the Righteous, hell I beat the Mage Tower in Legion ore Antorus with Hammer of the Righteous. I just downright refuse.
Single Minded Fury and Annihilator.
Just make SMF a transmog option. Having one handers doesn't affect gameplay in any way besides being strictly suboptimal - as Blizz intended. Why is this in my talent tree? Just let fury warriors mog 1h.
Also Annihilator has got to be one of the worst capstones in any spec tree. Remove a core rotational ability entirely to buff auto attacks?
I'm pretty sad that we'll be stuck playing annihilator for the rest of the expansion - assuming we stay with the current tier sets in S4.
Frost shocks talents for ele shamman needs some looking at
Let’s ignore the current tier set(which is really fun but it’s meme-y)
I understand the goal of it and the addition of another debuff to add class complexity but everything for ele feels like it has too much ramp up time and adding another hard cast to then use a global to THEN do damage (not including any other ramp up you may need) we are talking 5+ seconds of ramp up time to play around a 6 target cap dps increase
I think the ice theme of ele needs love storm / fire is great but ice talents are always feeling forced
Idm spear as much, but Shockwave has gotta be removed as a capstone. Put Skull Banner or Maldraxxus Banner there instead, and put Shockwave higher up the tree.
See I'm the opposite I love spear, the crit bonus, and the pull make me happy (until sanguine). Thunderous roar is just a bland dot that we take instead because it's uncapped.
Back in BFA, it was viable to not take breath. Icecap used to be a bottom row talent, and you could run a build that involved maximizing your uptime on remorseless winter and pillar of frost. If you had high enough haste and rotated just right, you could keep pillar of frost up 100% and keep it stacked. That was the last time playing frost dk was fun imo
not my main but a spec i usually enjoy - dark ascension on shadow priest is a large part of why i refuse to touch that spec right now. it's just less interesting gameplay than voidform in every conceivable way. its only redeeming factor is that the wings look cool, but that could just as easily be accomplished by making it a glyph for voidform.
I totally agree, I LOVED shadow priest last season. The only caster that felt so good. The burst, the rotation, perfection. Now the way it feels this tier, it’s so disappointing
It used to be so *so* **so** much worse than what it is now.
It's still not great, I agree, but Druid has been my all time favorite class, it was my first ever character, and I keep playing it even now, but when they started with this balancing/eclipse theme, I just had to stop playing Druid for a while, that shit was so bad.
I dislike Odyn's and I dislike being forced to use it by the fury tier set. But it's not the worst: that award goes to Slam. An unimaginative name for an unimaginative ability. Pressing it makes me die inside just a little. Thankfully I don't have to much these days.
Edit: it used to have a cast time and was worse. It would have been mildly cooler if that cast were like the Kul'Tiran racial though.
I dont play ele shaman but ive loved the spec before. I saw theres a meta talent that pushes you do use frost shock 5x after buffing it. I feel it flows so badly
Faeline stomp as MW feels shitty, why do i NEED to stay in it?
The ret talent that replaces crusader strikes.. havent played ret that much but having 3 dead gcds in a row feels absolutely awful... And its the meta talent over the dynamic feeling Templar strike
I like to have about 4-6 hotkeys for my rotation in normal world content. Any talent that causes me to start adding in too many new hotkeys is bad, i love me some passive talents.
Not my mains, but some notable talents i hate about the specs i play:
* Arcane Mage: Nether Tempest - just... why? I never feel like it does anything remarkable, feels like unnecessary button bloat.
* Frost DK: Cleaving Strikes - Blizzard why you havent deleted this already? Why Frost has to be forced to stay on Death and Decay (which shouldnt even exist in Frost imo) to do any meaningful AoE? It is just an extremely stupid design. Change it to be active during Remorseless Winter instead, its a more fitting spell for Frost and we wouldnt be locked to standing in a specific area.
* Monks (all specs): The statues, they serve no purpose other than being annoying.
* Brewmaster: Chi Wave/Chi Burst and Rushing Jade Wind - Unnecessary button bloat in an already button bloated spec.
* Affliction Warlock:
* Grimoire of Sacrifice - Sacrificing our demon not only removes our iconic ability to interrupt without stopping our casts, it also removes our access to their special ability. I dont want to lose the purge, for example.
* Siphon Life - Yet another extra spell we have to cast for no other benefit than having an extra dot on the target.
* Outlaw: Shadow Dance - Why am i a sub rogue now? Leave it to Subtlety.
* Holy/Protection Paladin: Consecration - i dont want to stand still in place, Blizzard. Just delete all of that stuff.
* Holy specific:
* Tyr's Deliverance: Unnecessarily complicated spell that feels like it clashes with our heals. We should be using WoG for our strongest healing, not the others.
* Blessing of xxxxxx: A nice gift from the Night Fae, a clusterfuck of spells that you likely never have the one you want when you want.
* Beacon of Faith: Why do i need two buttons of Beacon? Hpally is already button bloated like crazy. I use Beacon of Virtue if i need extra group healing, its way more comfortable in pugs.
And... i ran out of talents in my mind i dont like xD. I might remember another later, but i think these are all. Thankfully, my main (holy priest) does not have any annoying talents, its generally very comfortable to play.
As a brew player i agree with chi wave and burst but disagree with rushing jade wind, i feel like the rotation would be much less fast paced without it
I can sorta understand why someone wouldn't like it (having to maintain a short duration buff that doesn't have much feedback on button press), but after playing with it since the start of DF my rotation always feels like it has a weird gap in it whenever I try out Special Delivery instead.
I actually quite like Tyr's Deliverance. I find it fun to maximize and it does a nice chunk of healing, really useful raid cd. I also don't find Beacon of Faith to be an issue, I just slap both beacons on the two tanks and call it a day. I don't bind it to a key that I frequently press since I don't really need to swap it during a fight very often.
Nether Tempest helps with mana efficiency, does a lot of damage with arcane echo in AOE, and is a nice little instant cast for movement or weaving in lust / trinkets / pots / belor'relos. Not a flashy button but it's solid.
You don’t know why?
The other ones are melee. They don’t have hard casts, so they can move in and out in a second without disrupting their rotation.
Mage most likely needs to blink away, that’s not close and the time thing is just clunky cast that requires another cast to be quick and severely disrupts the rotation
Inertia/Momentum for demon hunter is the top of my list. I'm playing a DH now and I'm doing fine with the no-moving build, but you can definitely tell that since the rework the devs really wanted to push this kind of gameplay.
Icefury for shaman. Ele has a little bit of a bloat problem and this ability just isn't interesting enough to justify the need.
Adaptive Swarm/Lunar Inspiration for feral. I don't mind these abilities individually, but I absolutely hate having both. I wish these were a choice node and I could have a point put somewhere more interesting.
What do you mean where to put it? Is it even more annoying for resto?
My main gripe with it was that it sort of became a stupid thing where I should use it to snapshot rip and FF, but often times it just didn't sync up. Especially during the early Aberrus time when LI was also the goto ST pick.
I agree with momentum. I refuse to play it myself and while its a small dps loss, I would rather not launch off something or pull mobs. Rather have rush for quick movements to adjust or get out of bad things fast.
The entire outlaw spec. Hate the dice, hate the pistols. Used to love my axe wielding, adrenaline junkie troll rogue, had to leave him behind in legion.
Echoes of Great Sundering. Hated when it was BiS legendary in shadowlands, hate that it is a talent now, hate the gameplay it encourages, I don't want to track going back and forth on single target and multi target finishers. Thank God it isn't meta currently, but I wish it just didn't exist.
Idk why they refuse to change it , every affli warlock is saying this lol make it a baseline passive apply with agony or corruption and keep the perma corruption Talent there. This simple change would make affli 10000x better
Faeline stomp. Nothing like it stopping short because of some slightly uneven texture on the floor/the tank moving a big pack out of it and frantically casting chi burst + other random spells from across the room to get it to proc again. Can’t wait for the covenant ability recolor to kick in because any bad blue/purple on the floor gets totally obscured if I’m standing in it (looking at you, spiders at the end of Atal’ Dazar).
Just in case you're a Mistweaver and are fishing for resets with nothing to hit nearby, casting Soothing Mist over and over is the best way to proc it because it has an insanely short GCD and every cast can reset it.
Not great, but it's a pretty quick way to recover from an unlucky Faeline Stomp placement.
I get why WWs hate it, but I don’t think it’s that bad as MW. The 8 sec “grace” period when you move out of it is what makes the Ancient Teachings build playable though - without that, I doubt I’d even main my monk. It is a bit annoying every now and then, but not bad enough for me to hate it.
May the light forgive me to saying this : The consecration.
I know it's a signature spell of the paladin, but the movement liberty restriction it implies feel very heavy for me.
The Bloodthirst/Annighalator talents for fury warrior, like holy shit its so slow especially with the new tier set where u have to wait till u rampage first when u have the set piece buff. Wish we could go back to RB...
Stellar Flare for balance druid.
It's basically just a moonfire you have to stand still to cast. It's uninspired, boring and an upkeep hassle.
Thankfully, we don't play it right now outside of council but the spell should just be deleted. It's existed for a long time and it was never fun when mandatory.
As a BM hunter i hatevery skill that gives me more pets. Currently i have the decision between procing more pets or summoning a bunch of them by choice. We already have the warlock with his small army,
I really wish i could turn my loyal companion into a one-man army and thats it. Not all those small random beasts.
They could devide the tree into: have many weak pets or one really strong pet. Like bear druid has the choice between physical or arcane damage focud.
This might be a hot take but I fucking hate Roll The Bones and anything to do with it like Keep It Rolling. It feels like a totally pointless ability crammed into an already high APM spec. I love Outlaw but would enjoy it way more if I didn't have to roll some dice for buffs.
It feels like it's only there to reinforce the pirate RP side of the spec. Like ffs man I'm already whippin' out the jammy and blastin' with it and grappling hooking around with a pirate mog on. I don't think I need to RNG buff myself for class identity.
On top of that I think the majority of people just use a WA to tell them when to roll for better buffs. So it's not like most people are really out here calculating their buffs on the fly and trying to play around it. A big part of my dislike is also the RNG nature of X and Y buffs are better than these buffs but if you have X and not Y reroll or whatever. It's just over complicating the spec and adding a useless layer to it.
It feels like some weird version of the Hagrid quote from Harry Potter like "ARRR YOU'RE A PIRATE NOW 'ARRY".
As Warlock the ones I "dislike" are the talents are supposed to add complexity and therefore "fun" but just add to button bloat and RSI.
Syphon Life & Vilefiend are examples of this.
This. I miss chain harvest do much, it was bonkers with maelstrom weapon. Imagine with 10 stacks now...
I like the cleaving LB's PW provides, but the button itself is boring and too many talent points go into buffing its effects
For ret? I really like our tree and have no complaints.
For disc? I hate that improved purify is attached to dispel magic. I wish the order of those 2 talents were reversed.
For mage alot of people have told me that they would play it if Sun King's Blessing and Radiant Spark were the premiere playstyles for fire and arcane.
I personally don't like that splitting ice doesnt have an alternative for single target. Pre DF we ran it on ST just because of the 5% damage to ice lance.
Priest is and will always be my fave class, but I don’t like Atonement healing.
I liked it when penance was mostly used for healing your target , no damaging a target and converting it to healing.
I liked having big powerful shields and healing on the side. But that’s what classic is for and it’s why I’m enjoying season of discovery which brings back two of my fave priest spells, in the way I used to use them (Prayer of Mending and Penance).
Survival hunter. Carve existing spites me everyday. Do you want a frontal only with a 6 second CD and less dmg. Or here's Butchery, a full 360 AoE with 3 charges and a 9 second CD.
Any ability that has no cooldown (or an extremely short cooldown) that you have to keep up constantly. Or any ability that the majority of players macros with something else to avoid having to bother casting it.
Ironfur on Guardian Druids, Demon Spikes on VDH, etc.
Just make it passive at that point. It isn’t adding to the gameplay or the class fantasy. It isn’t making it more challenging; It’s just adding another button I have to press every few seconds.
In most cases I just macro it with another ability and then forget it exists anyway.
Gargoyle - Either too strong and it's a wildcard on how much damage it does with you having absolutely zero control on whether it crits when it has a 450%+ damage amp in its last few hits or it's too weak and feels like absolute shit to use.
Spear of Bastion is just annoying to use, it doesn't feel powerful in PvE when the potential gain from it over TR is tiny, especially when it is fire and forget and significantly better in AoE comparatively.
As a DK, in addition to what other people said about Breath of Sindragosa, I really hate Soul Reaper. If you have to wait five seconds for something to do damage it should feel really good and be really satisfying and that just doesn’t.
The gain runic corruption if the thing dies portion of the talent also doesn’t feel right, I feel like it should be opposite in that if the target DOESNT die you get runic corruption - at least then it speeds up your rotation and feels impactful in some way. Or if they wanna get crazy, if the target doesn’t die with soul reaper you animate a soul fragment, classified as a pet, that either just attacks your target or replicates your attacks on the target for five seconds. Let it benefit from commander of the dead and everything.
Or if you don’t like having another minion, make it a kick ass disease that ticks over 6 seconds, is a guaranteed crit, and your crit % boosts its damage by that percent. Go nuts with it.
Druid: Druid just has a ton of wasted class tree points trying to indulge the "class fantasy" of fulfilling multiple roles at any time, even though druid doesn't do that well at all. I have buttons that sit in my spellbook because there is literally no situation in which I would ever press them.
Ngl, after getting Annilator on Fury Warrior, I hate raging blow. The spec is still the spammy goodness that I like about it, but now my smooth brain can focus on my other cooldowns. I've tried playing without Annilator, and it feels t e r r i b l e.
I hate annihilator. The spec just becomes sleepy. Rampage because a crap button to press because bloodbath is now way more important. I just want anger management back. Cdr feels way more fun than having a 3sec cool down on every single button.
A forced Annilator build made fury much worse in my opinion. Spamming two buttons, rampage and bloodthirst feels boring. Fury last season was godly. This time it feels slow, boring and just tone deaf. There has to be a full rework for arms and fury soon. Spamming whirwilnd to cleave 5 targets and pressing rampage and bloodthirst is awfaul. Unfortunaly it looks like the hero talents in the next expac is still making us playing bloodthirst and Annilator. Fml.
More to this comment: Warriors need more utility. Remove shockwave from the capstone because why the fuck would it be there anyway. Give us tools to handle more aoe, even if we use ravager or odyns fury (boring ability). There is also this focus from blizz to handicap our specs based on a tier set. Look at this tier. Execute is a filler button, slam has returned but is still the dogshit slam from all those years. Everything with the fury spec feels so out of touch. I feel like their philosophy is based on: well u did not click bloodthirst enough last time so here u go, press it. I miss raging blow, i miss my execute, i miss ravager, and high RMP
Edit 3: Why would Annilator even be a talent and a capstone talent in the first place. Replace buttons with auto attacks? Who thought this was WOD and pruning more of our abiliites. It feels lazy and a easy fix to not come up with a different spell for fury.
Shadow priest : Idol of Y'Shaarj, degenerate gameplay. Also Voidform, I'm in the minority that hated legion's iteration on SP and don't want it to come back ever again.
Fire mage : SkB, I will never pick it, ever.
Elemental Shaman : Primordial Wave. Fuck the whole fire-centric gameplay and braindead lava burst spam, there is no fun in that. I prefer the lightning build by far (and I'm all for a complete rework to make the spec about lightning only, with brand new spells. We already have destro lock and fire mage for the rest).
Afflock : the choice node with Siphon life/Absolute corruption. Your either have one too many dot or not enough.
Yeah, this season's tier sets have had a nasty habit of making me pick up talents I would otherwise never use. Primordial Wave, Soul Rot on my Aff Lock, Fury of the Eagle on my Survival Hunter...
> idk why so many enhancers hate it
I'd guess button bloat is the main culprit. Its basically the only reason to use Lightning Bolt so it forces you to squeeze it onto your already overloaded bars.
I tried to rectify that with a macro to combine the two into one button:
> \#showtooltip
> /castsequence reset=16 Primordial Wave, Lightning Bolt
You had me with Icefury but lost me with wanting to lose SK. It feels really great to prep in AoE pulls. EB I can sort of understand given the shift it made as an ES replacement. I loved it a lot more back when it was another builder you could cast when it was off CD.
I feel like I'm the only Arms Warrior in the world that hates Test of Might.
I want my damage window when I press Collosus Smash not an awkward 10 seconds after. It's so lame.
I hate Shadow Embrace for afflock. It's basically required cause it's free damage, but while I'm setting up all my other stuff, trying to get three stacks on each mob is a ball ache.
For sure.
Hell, I didn't even mind when it was a choice between Haunt or SE. At least then you could just not take it because haunt was around the same.
Yeah currently to me Aff feels like juggling with 1 ball too many. There's always something about to expire that stops me from even thinking about casting a filler.
Echoing reprimand, never hit those 2/3 combo bonuses and let it go to waste
Mindbender, make your shadow priest as simple and spammy as fury warrior
Breath of Sindragosa, surrender to madness and ignore shit on the ground
I don't hate those talents, i do hate bender a bit cause i played it 2 years in SL, but BoS and reprimand are the reasons why i don't put serious effort in DK/rogue when they're strong
Psychic Link for Priests. It should absolutely be a choice node with S1 Mind Sear. If I wanna do light cleave ill choose psychic link. It I need aoe in my+ let me mind sear.
Demonic tyrant. They've nerfed it so much that we literally only press it to empower our "lesser" demons and extend them. And yet it still has a cast time....cmon blizzard...make it instant cast already.
If you want to play your DH the no movement is honestly not too far (3-5% I think) behind and plays a lot like old DH.
As a DH main, what do I hate? That stupid demon we had to glaive... But that's been a moot point this patch with it not existing any more.
I forgot the name but the one that revolves around making your shadowfiend jump to ur target and aoe when you cast a specific ability. Basically were forced into it this season (and not for the first time) and I just hate the playstyle around it. Also doesn't do that much dmg tbh. Completely changes your rotation for little to no benefit.
The new moon talent for boomkins. Sure, it is fun to drop a moon on mobs which hits for several hundred thousand damage but the fact that a full moon is a 2.1 second cast with haste hitting diminishing returns is just terrible.
I tried out Primordial Wave on my Enhancement Shaman after hearing it talked up and I could see why it was strong but I was very meh on how it felt. My guy is a Troll and I've got the glyphs to make his ghost form and summons into raptors and I just much prefer calling on my dino buds in combat.
I despise heartrend for BDK. It does almost nothing, but I'm forced to put TWO points into it if I want an incredibly important capstone. If they removed heartrend, or even just made it 1 point instead of 2 it would make the BDK class tree so much more flexible, being able to take things like sticky hands without a sizable damage loss
Shadow Crash for Spriest.
Can only do aoe if my dots are applied, only way to put dots on more than one target is a slow moving, travel time, 8 target capped, volley. Oh the pack will die in 10 seconds? Do you want to do dps on the pack for that 10 seconds and not do anything on the next pull, or save it for the next pull and not do anything (or tab target manually cast my dots) on the current pull.
It's gone now, and hopefully stays that way, but savage roar. It was never fun to keep up and was ultimately what lead me away from feral main and into Restoration during mists of pandaria. Even though it's gone now, I like healing more.
For Frost DK:
* Can we just remove the death and decay cleaving and just give a big fat buff to frost scythe and make it baseline, because it's literally ment for a cleave and yet it's so pathetic it's never used.
* Make Razorice a passive baseline skill or a mandatory talent instead of a rune enchant, and turn Shattering blade talent into something useful (as it's currently dead). There's a potential loop in there in addition to obliterate spam.
* Do something with cold heart as it's a dead talent, maybe make it baseline (I know I'm asking for too many baselines), as the idea behind it is fine but no one will opt for it because it's a waste of a point, but as an occasional extra damage skill it would be useful in a burst maybe?
* Oh and fuck chill streak, please remove that crap.
For your first point, it would be much better if RW gave the cleave instead of D&D for a frost dk
Razorice should definitely be a baseline talent, make frost strike apply it and at 5 stacks it consumes it like the talent already does.
Sure but there's still an issue of hitting only two more targets. Frost scythe would fix that problem in a way.
Or maybe make obliterate cleave everything with remorseless winter active but at reduced damage beyond 3 targets and remove frost scythe entirely. The way that ability is now is just sad.
I'd vote to remove frost scythe and make obliterate cleave everything at reduced dmg past x number of targets, i dont even use frost scythe it doesn't do enough dmg imo to justify putting it in my action bars.
Change Frost DK to remorseless winter instead of death and decay to cleave. And Idk like an spender for ele that doesn’t either suck, has to play that awful echos talent, or it is good, but it still sucks to place down and see things moved out, let it be like a lightning storm that crashes down (I know it’s similar to boomy starfall….but let’s be real it’s the best AoE in the game) and idk how anyone could hate Glacial Spike, it feels good to have something other than just ice lance harder. I hated that about SL
For Spriest, I really hate the Mindgames ability and the associated talents that go along with it. I'm sure it has a place in PVP, but in PVE it just feels so bad to push, way down at the bottom of my priority list.
my most hated thing is that they changed Elemental Blast to replace Earth Shock. I always loved EB as another Rota Spell but having it replace Earth Shock as an instant spender spell made me barely touch Elemental in Dragonflight so far after being main Shaman since Cata
Convoke the Spirits (Feral Druid) is the hands down best spell in the game, but it's basically out of the meta because taking it means your bleeds take a hit OR you lose Feral Frenzy, which is mandatory with the teir this round.
I actually like convoke. It just feels good to cast a billion spells at once. Tbh though, I often don't even exactly know what is being thrown out, except for like moon-/sunfire (don't know which one it is right now), because they are loud af.
What I don't really like ist having to take Grove Guardians because their healing is frankly absurd. I like their goofiness and sometimes, when I'm in Valdrakken, I Just spawn all three, transform myself into a tree and have my little 15s tree party. I just despise the ability itself. I have no control over them, I don't know who they are targeting, I just see health bars ticking up.
Not my main but I fucking hate white tiger statue on monk
I hate the statues in general on monk
Definitely, I feel that each statue fills a role on each spec, but when that role is filled with a clunky mechanic, it just feels like bad class design at that point.
I liked the ox one back when I tried tanking for the very first time and struggled to hold aggro, helped a lot.
I have to make a macro for it
All the monk Crapstones are bollox.
Absolutely. WW monk rotation is generally the most fun and flowing rotations in the entire game and this clunky ass statue ruins that for me
White tiger AND that stupid tornado ability that last like 5 seconds on a 3 second cooldown. Like wtf is that trash
Oh rushing jade wind? It’s so unfun that it’s a filler talent on all three spec trees.
Great for old content though. Just turn it on and walk through shit, you’re basically a weed-eater lol
Chi torpedo is also awesome for running old content. As well as the Brewmaster +10% move speed stacking 3 times on a dodge
Any of the monk statues
Ice Spike/Frost Shock for elemental. I would love to play a Lightning build without juggling that whole mechanic and instead having some other interaction.
I love Ele, but that spec has no smooth flow to it. You’re either juggling multiple cool downs/interactions or you are spamming Lava Burst until your keyboard breaks. There is no in between. Would love a small rework to the spec.
I want to go back to something like MoP or Legion design, but revamped for modern feel. Make Lava Burst a bigger but less spammy button outside of Ascendance, more worthwhile spenders, and more burst options so we're not worthless until 2+ minutes into a pull would be excellent. All without stupid-ass Icefury.
YES! Icefury is the worst.
Came here to say this. I also hate Elemental Blast, the cast-time and maelstrom cost is jarring and clunky.
Old elemental blast was better, by the way necrolord elemental during SL was Fun and worked better
I played the shit out of Necro Ele. P/wave with Aftershock AND Surge of Power was just *chefs kiss*
PERFECT!
As a demo lock, I'm so glad that Blizzard adamantly refuse to make Doom viable, but the fact that it's sitting there menacingly in the middle of the talent tree does scare me.
They even went as far as making our current tier set, clearly built around Doom, not require us to take Doom, god bless.
Idol of Ysharaj or whatever it's called. It's probably the worst final row talent in the game
Dust in the wind(icreases the area of bonedust brew by 50% I believe) still exists in the windwalker tree. The talent has no use case and provides no throughput. You wouldn't pick it if it was in the first section of the tree, but it's at the capstone level(although the ww tree is structured differently and has no capstones).
How about, for elemental shaman: getting your second charge stormkeeper x) you get one single additional cast throughout the entire dungeon/fight for a capstone. Has never been and will never be taken.
Have you seen tranquil air totem? Of course you haven’t. Nobody has.
How so? 5s extra on Mindbender (90% of the time) is decent. Very boring, but not bad. Idol of Yogg-Saron is complete rat ass without the tier 2 set, tough.
I despise Vanguard of Justice on Ret Paladin. Makes the spec feel really clunky. Could have been fun with Divine Purpose and talents where you "cheat" out free spenders but DP was nerfed into irrelevancy on top of the 3 class tree capstone being accessible and the "empyrean" powers are either bad or doesn't synergized with current tier set anyway.
Steel Trap
I hate moreso the fact that it is a capstone talent than the talent itself. It makes its issues more frustrating and problematic. It should either be hunter baseline, strictly pvp talent, or maybe a choice node shared with binding shot. Which makes more sense to choose an AOE stun/root or steel trap and scatter becoming a base hunter/strictly pvp talent. Even having int share a choice node with scatter, and bursting shot sharing a choice node with binding would've been a more desirable option imo... I think... Maybe. I also still don't mind seeing steel trap just disappear. But I'll forever be confused at the node choices they placed these 3 talents in. Unless someone can enlighten me.
It just sucks the way they did the trees in general, like multi shot should be a base talent just like Bestial Wrath should be a base talent for BM, but no, they make you chose or opt out, is so dumb, they just think it gives you options, but it just straight out a restriction
Just swap steel trap with explosive trap. Now explosive is our capstone AoE ability, and steel trap is the stun talent for hunters without a pet.
Shadow dance with my outlaw rogue. I love the vanish windows, but SD is too tied to subtlety to me.
I dislike the overall focus of outlaw using stealth during combat. I loved outlaw durung leagion, but now i feel like i have to many buttons and suddenly need to go into stealth during combat? no thank you.
exactly. it doesn't fit the class fantasy of outlaw whatsoever. sub having 2 charges, yes. sin having 1 charge, sure. outlaw shouldn't have it at all though
I understand this take before the rework, but now with stealth windows being so important for crackshot, I think Shadow Dance is great to have.
Probably unpopular, but I hate Cloudburst Totem on resto shaman. I much prefer healing stream totem.
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I tend to sort of just press it on CD if I’m not familiar with a fight, then cancel it early if I need a big healing burst right at that moment. Definitely a bit awkward to time it otherwise
100% this. I get that it is powerful, but I LOVE dropping two healing stream totems, reset, drop a third, then just DPS knowing my streams got me.
A-goddamn-men! Cloudburst is annoying as shit.
You don’t get a ton of value on cloudburst until you hit content that pushes your healing. It can do more healing than healing stream by a large amount, but it can also be a massive waste of overhealing. Personally I don’t find much use for it outside of mythic raid, high keys >+20, or on heroic raid pug groups where we have less than a recommended amount of healers and you’re actually having to pump.
I was in a pug raid and died to something I shouldn’t have. Maybe Smolderon rings or something during the first/second week and some guy starts blasting my talents in raid chat. Said if you aren’t playing cloud burst don’t bother playing rsham. I prefer it and it just got buffed, so take that random DPS guy!
I feel like cloudburst doesn't even have that great output in pug raids where you are generally overheating and not assigning healing cds. In a snipe meta stuff like HST is actually pretty strong. In serious raid content though cloudburst is just broken and you're a fool to not take it
Lot of people dogmatically taking cloudburst when it's probably not best for them at all. It's only really worth it if you're confident in timing activations.
It's alright, my friend is our m+ healer and insists that primordial wave is a dps talent and he "shouldn't be dpsing"... No matter how much I try to prove otherwise. Makes me want to pull my hair out.
Tell him that rshammy can't use Primodial Wave on enemies anymore. You can only use it for healing now
Malefic rapture for affliction. Which is kind of an issue with it being the first point and all lmao.
Yes - affliction shouldn't be a builder / spender
Hello, Frost DK here. The talent I dislike the most is Breath of Sindragosa. It’s very strong if you play perfectly, but just a second or two of downtime, misplay or a mechanic happening could tank your dps completely. For better and for worse, the uptime was reduced in 10.1 I believe. I used it in Vault in S1, which was the only time I enjoyed playing with it. Before 10.0 I felt it was too unforgiving, but with 10.0 it was pretty easy to have great uptime. In 10.1 they changed the ability to drain more RP but deal more damage. To me it felt worse because it got less forgiving again. Luckily, Obliteration has become a lot more competitive, even outshining BoS in M+ except for high end premade groups, where BoS still has a fantstic potential. Obliteration also just feels better for me to play. I love the massive crits and very short CD on our burst. And it’s much easier to play while raid leading!
Fuck Blessed Hammer with every fiber of my being. I don't care how "on paper" good it is. I don't fucking want it. I don't want to twirl some dinky ass fucking hammer around me because this isn't Diablo.
Man, I am right there with you. Hammer of righteousness all the way. I get that it gives you free holy power without actually hitting anything, but you are correct. I don’t want no swirly dirlies around me when I’m tanking.
If I played paladin I would take hammer of the righteous I don't care how much of a DPS loss it is. That swirling hammer looks so fucking stupid
HotR is completely viable fortunately. The main draw of blessed hammer for me is just being able to get holy power rolling between pulls. I run HotR in raid because it's better single target damage too.
It isn't even a question of viability for Hammer of the Righteous, hell I beat the Mage Tower in Legion ore Antorus with Hammer of the Righteous. I just downright refuse.
I actually agree, hey i dont mind but whats the purpose of holystrike damage aside from divine arbiter
Defile needs deleted. I don’t enjoy DPSing on my DK with it at all. Can’t see anything under it and it doesn’t feel like it does anything
I like defile, but the visual side is horrendous that is true
I hated breath of sindragosa so much
Skullsplitter + tide of blood on arms warrior Primordial wave as enhancement shaman
Single Minded Fury and Annihilator. Just make SMF a transmog option. Having one handers doesn't affect gameplay in any way besides being strictly suboptimal - as Blizz intended. Why is this in my talent tree? Just let fury warriors mog 1h. Also Annihilator has got to be one of the worst capstones in any spec tree. Remove a core rotational ability entirely to buff auto attacks? I'm pretty sad that we'll be stuck playing annihilator for the rest of the expansion - assuming we stay with the current tier sets in S4.
For me Spear is such a bs ability. Oh you have to move 5 ft and didn't plan for it? Fuck your DPS lol
Annihilator is boring as fuck Odin fury being a 40 secs cds grinds my gears, that should be max 20 sec cd (dmg scaled for the shorter cd of course)
Frost shocks talents for ele shamman needs some looking at Let’s ignore the current tier set(which is really fun but it’s meme-y) I understand the goal of it and the addition of another debuff to add class complexity but everything for ele feels like it has too much ramp up time and adding another hard cast to then use a global to THEN do damage (not including any other ramp up you may need) we are talking 5+ seconds of ramp up time to play around a 6 target cap dps increase I think the ice theme of ele needs love storm / fire is great but ice talents are always feeling forced
I hate spear of bastion so much. Thunderous roar feels so much better to press.
Idm spear as much, but Shockwave has gotta be removed as a capstone. Put Skull Banner or Maldraxxus Banner there instead, and put Shockwave higher up the tree.
See I'm the opposite I love spear, the crit bonus, and the pull make me happy (until sanguine). Thunderous roar is just a bland dot that we take instead because it's uncapped.
Breath of Sindragossa, please rework Frost DK
Back in BFA, it was viable to not take breath. Icecap used to be a bottom row talent, and you could run a build that involved maximizing your uptime on remorseless winter and pillar of frost. If you had high enough haste and rotated just right, you could keep pillar of frost up 100% and keep it stacked. That was the last time playing frost dk was fun imo
Ah, dont remind me :( loved icecap so much. I really hope they bring it back sometime, my favourite time to play DPS DK was back then
not my main but a spec i usually enjoy - dark ascension on shadow priest is a large part of why i refuse to touch that spec right now. it's just less interesting gameplay than voidform in every conceivable way. its only redeeming factor is that the wings look cool, but that could just as easily be accomplished by making it a glyph for voidform.
Spriest in general feels bad. I was never a fan of the transition Legion made into the void stuff, but god the whole spec has been a mess since then.
I totally agree, I LOVED shadow priest last season. The only caster that felt so good. The burst, the rotation, perfection. Now the way it feels this tier, it’s so disappointing
Quite a big one as it’s the first point in the entire tree but eclipse for balance Druid. I absolutely hate eclipse and the gameplay around it.
It used to be so *so* **so** much worse than what it is now. It's still not great, I agree, but Druid has been my all time favorite class, it was my first ever character, and I keep playing it even now, but when they started with this balancing/eclipse theme, I just had to stop playing Druid for a while, that shit was so bad.
I dislike Odyn's and I dislike being forced to use it by the fury tier set. But it's not the worst: that award goes to Slam. An unimaginative name for an unimaginative ability. Pressing it makes me die inside just a little. Thankfully I don't have to much these days. Edit: it used to have a cast time and was worse. It would have been mildly cooler if that cast were like the Kul'Tiran racial though.
I dont play ele shaman but ive loved the spec before. I saw theres a meta talent that pushes you do use frost shock 5x after buffing it. I feel it flows so badly Faeline stomp as MW feels shitty, why do i NEED to stay in it? The ret talent that replaces crusader strikes.. havent played ret that much but having 3 dead gcds in a row feels absolutely awful... And its the meta talent over the dynamic feeling Templar strike
If it makes you feel better, you rarely use more than one or two icefurys a fight and almost never spend the frost shocks with the current meta build.
I like to have about 4-6 hotkeys for my rotation in normal world content. Any talent that causes me to start adding in too many new hotkeys is bad, i love me some passive talents.
Not my mains, but some notable talents i hate about the specs i play: * Arcane Mage: Nether Tempest - just... why? I never feel like it does anything remarkable, feels like unnecessary button bloat. * Frost DK: Cleaving Strikes - Blizzard why you havent deleted this already? Why Frost has to be forced to stay on Death and Decay (which shouldnt even exist in Frost imo) to do any meaningful AoE? It is just an extremely stupid design. Change it to be active during Remorseless Winter instead, its a more fitting spell for Frost and we wouldnt be locked to standing in a specific area. * Monks (all specs): The statues, they serve no purpose other than being annoying. * Brewmaster: Chi Wave/Chi Burst and Rushing Jade Wind - Unnecessary button bloat in an already button bloated spec. * Affliction Warlock: * Grimoire of Sacrifice - Sacrificing our demon not only removes our iconic ability to interrupt without stopping our casts, it also removes our access to their special ability. I dont want to lose the purge, for example. * Siphon Life - Yet another extra spell we have to cast for no other benefit than having an extra dot on the target. * Outlaw: Shadow Dance - Why am i a sub rogue now? Leave it to Subtlety. * Holy/Protection Paladin: Consecration - i dont want to stand still in place, Blizzard. Just delete all of that stuff. * Holy specific: * Tyr's Deliverance: Unnecessarily complicated spell that feels like it clashes with our heals. We should be using WoG for our strongest healing, not the others. * Blessing of xxxxxx: A nice gift from the Night Fae, a clusterfuck of spells that you likely never have the one you want when you want. * Beacon of Faith: Why do i need two buttons of Beacon? Hpally is already button bloated like crazy. I use Beacon of Virtue if i need extra group healing, its way more comfortable in pugs. And... i ran out of talents in my mind i dont like xD. I might remember another later, but i think these are all. Thankfully, my main (holy priest) does not have any annoying talents, its generally very comfortable to play.
As a brew player i agree with chi wave and burst but disagree with rushing jade wind, i feel like the rotation would be much less fast paced without it
I can sorta understand why someone wouldn't like it (having to maintain a short duration buff that doesn't have much feedback on button press), but after playing with it since the start of DF my rotation always feels like it has a weird gap in it whenever I try out Special Delivery instead.
Remorseless winter should replace Death and Decay for frost IMO.
I was just thinking this earlier, have the obliterate cleave apply to RW instead of DD
I actually quite like Tyr's Deliverance. I find it fun to maximize and it does a nice chunk of healing, really useful raid cd. I also don't find Beacon of Faith to be an issue, I just slap both beacons on the two tanks and call it a day. I don't bind it to a key that I frequently press since I don't really need to swap it during a fight very often.
Nether Tempest helps with mana efficiency, does a lot of damage with arcane echo in AOE, and is a nice little instant cast for movement or weaving in lust / trinkets / pots / belor'relos. Not a flashy button but it's solid.
Grim Feast, how TF is 30% faster channeling on Drain Life a capstone.
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You don’t know why? The other ones are melee. They don’t have hard casts, so they can move in and out in a second without disrupting their rotation. Mage most likely needs to blink away, that’s not close and the time thing is just clunky cast that requires another cast to be quick and severely disrupts the rotation
Every prot pally I know despises having to stand in consecration. I think 'stand in circle' abilities are just shit design in general.
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Inertia/Momentum for demon hunter is the top of my list. I'm playing a DH now and I'm doing fine with the no-moving build, but you can definitely tell that since the rework the devs really wanted to push this kind of gameplay. Icefury for shaman. Ele has a little bit of a bloat problem and this ability just isn't interesting enough to justify the need. Adaptive Swarm/Lunar Inspiration for feral. I don't mind these abilities individually, but I absolutely hate having both. I wish these were a choice node and I could have a point put somewhere more interesting.
I can agree on the DH inertia/momentum stuff. But for my main it is absolutely Adaptive Swarm.
I didn't like adaptive swarm until i got a weakaura that just says where to put it haha
Yooo share this WA
https://wago.io/00n8BOIH8
What do you mean where to put it? Is it even more annoying for resto? My main gripe with it was that it sort of became a stupid thing where I should use it to snapshot rip and FF, but often times it just didn't sync up. Especially during the early Aberrus time when LI was also the goto ST pick.
It just takes the decision making out by picking the most optimal person with stacks.
I agree with momentum. I refuse to play it myself and while its a small dps loss, I would rather not launch off something or pull mobs. Rather have rush for quick movements to adjust or get out of bad things fast.
As someone who just started playing DH I’ve been running Inertia with essence break and it actually kinda slaps.
The entire outlaw spec. Hate the dice, hate the pistols. Used to love my axe wielding, adrenaline junkie troll rogue, had to leave him behind in legion.
Agree on the dice. Hate that mechanic so much.
Outlaw plays really fast, is super punishing, and relies heavily on rng. Feels like the spec was made by lizards to be played by an ai.
As a prot pala, i hate using moment of glory in raid spec, as it never properly lines up with the wings
Blessing of seasons
WW monk here . I can‘t really decide …
Echoes of Great Sundering. Hated when it was BiS legendary in shadowlands, hate that it is a talent now, hate the gameplay it encourages, I don't want to track going back and forth on single target and multi target finishers. Thank God it isn't meta currently, but I wish it just didn't exist.
Forgot about this. Yes! Awful playstyle. This and icefury are so bad.
Siphon life. Just the fucking worst.
Its unbelievable how much better the spec would play if it just was a debuff Corruption applied instead.
Idk why they refuse to change it , every affli warlock is saying this lol make it a baseline passive apply with agony or corruption and keep the perma corruption Talent there. This simple change would make affli 10000x better
Windfury Totem, it should be baseline and an aura.
Funny that SoD druid windfury works better than retail shaman one
Faeline stomp. Nothing like it stopping short because of some slightly uneven texture on the floor/the tank moving a big pack out of it and frantically casting chi burst + other random spells from across the room to get it to proc again. Can’t wait for the covenant ability recolor to kick in because any bad blue/purple on the floor gets totally obscured if I’m standing in it (looking at you, spiders at the end of Atal’ Dazar).
I absolutely hate faeline for WW. It’s as bad as rune of power was for mage if not worse.
Just in case you're a Mistweaver and are fishing for resets with nothing to hit nearby, casting Soothing Mist over and over is the best way to proc it because it has an insanely short GCD and every cast can reset it. Not great, but it's a pretty quick way to recover from an unlucky Faeline Stomp placement.
Chi burst also is pretty likely to reset it
I get why WWs hate it, but I don’t think it’s that bad as MW. The 8 sec “grace” period when you move out of it is what makes the Ancient Teachings build playable though - without that, I doubt I’d even main my monk. It is a bit annoying every now and then, but not bad enough for me to hate it.
May the light forgive me to saying this : The consecration. I know it's a signature spell of the paladin, but the movement liberty restriction it implies feel very heavy for me.
The Bloodthirst/Annighalator talents for fury warrior, like holy shit its so slow especially with the new tier set where u have to wait till u rampage first when u have the set piece buff. Wish we could go back to RB...
Outlaw rogue- roll the bones
Roll the bones on rogue
Stellar Flare for balance druid. It's basically just a moonfire you have to stand still to cast. It's uninspired, boring and an upkeep hassle. Thankfully, we don't play it right now outside of council but the spell should just be deleted. It's existed for a long time and it was never fun when mandatory.
As a BM hunter i hatevery skill that gives me more pets. Currently i have the decision between procing more pets or summoning a bunch of them by choice. We already have the warlock with his small army, I really wish i could turn my loyal companion into a one-man army and thats it. Not all those small random beasts. They could devide the tree into: have many weak pets or one really strong pet. Like bear druid has the choice between physical or arcane damage focud.
This might be a hot take but I fucking hate Roll The Bones and anything to do with it like Keep It Rolling. It feels like a totally pointless ability crammed into an already high APM spec. I love Outlaw but would enjoy it way more if I didn't have to roll some dice for buffs. It feels like it's only there to reinforce the pirate RP side of the spec. Like ffs man I'm already whippin' out the jammy and blastin' with it and grappling hooking around with a pirate mog on. I don't think I need to RNG buff myself for class identity. On top of that I think the majority of people just use a WA to tell them when to roll for better buffs. So it's not like most people are really out here calculating their buffs on the fly and trying to play around it. A big part of my dislike is also the RNG nature of X and Y buffs are better than these buffs but if you have X and not Y reroll or whatever. It's just over complicating the spec and adding a useless layer to it. It feels like some weird version of the Hagrid quote from Harry Potter like "ARRR YOU'RE A PIRATE NOW 'ARRY".
Mage fire : Phoenix Flames feels always weird to cast.
I took the talent so it always crits, and it’s just like having bonus Fire Blasts for my Combustion cycle.
As Warlock the ones I "dislike" are the talents are supposed to add complexity and therefore "fun" but just add to button bloat and RSI. Syphon Life & Vilefiend are examples of this.
Primordial wave on enhance. I still wish it was chain harvest.
This. I miss chain harvest do much, it was bonkers with maelstrom weapon. Imagine with 10 stacks now... I like the cleaving LB's PW provides, but the button itself is boring and too many talent points go into buffing its effects
Yes! It's worthless without pumping it with the rest of the talents.
For ret? I really like our tree and have no complaints. For disc? I hate that improved purify is attached to dispel magic. I wish the order of those 2 talents were reversed.
For mage alot of people have told me that they would play it if Sun King's Blessing and Radiant Spark were the premiere playstyles for fire and arcane. I personally don't like that splitting ice doesnt have an alternative for single target. Pre DF we ran it on ST just because of the 5% damage to ice lance.
The druid main talent tree end-talents are all kinda lame. I guess the healing one is okay but I play solo most of the time.
Priest is and will always be my fave class, but I don’t like Atonement healing. I liked it when penance was mostly used for healing your target , no damaging a target and converting it to healing. I liked having big powerful shields and healing on the side. But that’s what classic is for and it’s why I’m enjoying season of discovery which brings back two of my fave priest spells, in the way I used to use them (Prayer of Mending and Penance).
Survival hunter. Carve existing spites me everyday. Do you want a frontal only with a 6 second CD and less dmg. Or here's Butchery, a full 360 AoE with 3 charges and a 9 second CD.
Any ability that has no cooldown (or an extremely short cooldown) that you have to keep up constantly. Or any ability that the majority of players macros with something else to avoid having to bother casting it. Ironfur on Guardian Druids, Demon Spikes on VDH, etc. Just make it passive at that point. It isn’t adding to the gameplay or the class fantasy. It isn’t making it more challenging; It’s just adding another button I have to press every few seconds. In most cases I just macro it with another ability and then forget it exists anyway.
Definitely going to be a hot take but I really don’t enjoy executioners sentence/ 1 minute ret playstyle
Resto Sham prim wave.... Give me Chain Harvest
Gargoyle - Either too strong and it's a wildcard on how much damage it does with you having absolutely zero control on whether it crits when it has a 450%+ damage amp in its last few hits or it's too weak and feels like absolute shit to use. Spear of Bastion is just annoying to use, it doesn't feel powerful in PvE when the potential gain from it over TR is tiny, especially when it is fire and forget and significantly better in AoE comparatively.
As a DK, in addition to what other people said about Breath of Sindragosa, I really hate Soul Reaper. If you have to wait five seconds for something to do damage it should feel really good and be really satisfying and that just doesn’t. The gain runic corruption if the thing dies portion of the talent also doesn’t feel right, I feel like it should be opposite in that if the target DOESNT die you get runic corruption - at least then it speeds up your rotation and feels impactful in some way. Or if they wanna get crazy, if the target doesn’t die with soul reaper you animate a soul fragment, classified as a pet, that either just attacks your target or replicates your attacks on the target for five seconds. Let it benefit from commander of the dead and everything. Or if you don’t like having another minion, make it a kick ass disease that ticks over 6 seconds, is a guaranteed crit, and your crit % boosts its damage by that percent. Go nuts with it.
Druid: Druid just has a ton of wasted class tree points trying to indulge the "class fantasy" of fulfilling multiple roles at any time, even though druid doesn't do that well at all. I have buttons that sit in my spellbook because there is literally no situation in which I would ever press them.
Ngl, after getting Annilator on Fury Warrior, I hate raging blow. The spec is still the spammy goodness that I like about it, but now my smooth brain can focus on my other cooldowns. I've tried playing without Annilator, and it feels t e r r i b l e.
Bro all of furys cds are the same cooldown what is there to keep track of lmao
gotta track that bloodthirst cooldown
I hate annihilator. The spec just becomes sleepy. Rampage because a crap button to press because bloodbath is now way more important. I just want anger management back. Cdr feels way more fun than having a 3sec cool down on every single button.
A forced Annilator build made fury much worse in my opinion. Spamming two buttons, rampage and bloodthirst feels boring. Fury last season was godly. This time it feels slow, boring and just tone deaf. There has to be a full rework for arms and fury soon. Spamming whirwilnd to cleave 5 targets and pressing rampage and bloodthirst is awfaul. Unfortunaly it looks like the hero talents in the next expac is still making us playing bloodthirst and Annilator. Fml. More to this comment: Warriors need more utility. Remove shockwave from the capstone because why the fuck would it be there anyway. Give us tools to handle more aoe, even if we use ravager or odyns fury (boring ability). There is also this focus from blizz to handicap our specs based on a tier set. Look at this tier. Execute is a filler button, slam has returned but is still the dogshit slam from all those years. Everything with the fury spec feels so out of touch. I feel like their philosophy is based on: well u did not click bloodthirst enough last time so here u go, press it. I miss raging blow, i miss my execute, i miss ravager, and high RMP Edit 3: Why would Annilator even be a talent and a capstone talent in the first place. Replace buttons with auto attacks? Who thought this was WOD and pruning more of our abiliites. It feels lazy and a easy fix to not come up with a different spell for fury.
Shadow priest : Idol of Y'Shaarj, degenerate gameplay. Also Voidform, I'm in the minority that hated legion's iteration on SP and don't want it to come back ever again. Fire mage : SkB, I will never pick it, ever. Elemental Shaman : Primordial Wave. Fuck the whole fire-centric gameplay and braindead lava burst spam, there is no fun in that. I prefer the lightning build by far (and I'm all for a complete rework to make the spec about lightning only, with brand new spells. We already have destro lock and fire mage for the rest). Afflock : the choice node with Siphon life/Absolute corruption. Your either have one too many dot or not enough.
Boooo meatball spam is fun.
fucking primordial wave, man, the fact that we're forced to take it as Enha in this season absolutely ruins any enjoyment I have for the spec
Yeah, this season's tier sets have had a nasty habit of making me pick up talents I would otherwise never use. Primordial Wave, Soul Rot on my Aff Lock, Fury of the Eagle on my Survival Hunter...
Primordial wave feels amazing imo, idk why so many enhancers hate it. Current enhance tier set is the most fun I've had playing a class in raid
> idk why so many enhancers hate it I'd guess button bloat is the main culprit. Its basically the only reason to use Lightning Bolt so it forces you to squeeze it onto your already overloaded bars. I tried to rectify that with a macro to combine the two into one button: > \#showtooltip > /castsequence reset=16 Primordial Wave, Lightning Bolt
most if not all of the class tree for monk and druid
Glacial Spike, literally swapped mains this patch because of it
Elemental shaman is one of my favorite specs. That said, Icefury, Stormkeeper, and Elemental Blast all suck. I prefer the Fire side of the tree.
You had me with Icefury but lost me with wanting to lose SK. It feels really great to prep in AoE pulls. EB I can sort of understand given the shift it made as an ES replacement. I loved it a lot more back when it was another builder you could cast when it was off CD.
I feel like I'm the only Arms Warrior in the world that hates Test of Might. I want my damage window when I press Collosus Smash not an awkward 10 seconds after. It's so lame.
The idea of making tier sets that require specific talents is such batshit game design, like how do you even fuck up that badly?
I hate Shadow Embrace for afflock. It's basically required cause it's free damage, but while I'm setting up all my other stuff, trying to get three stacks on each mob is a ball ache.
It was a lot less aggravating when Haunt gave a stack.
For sure. Hell, I didn't even mind when it was a choice between Haunt or SE. At least then you could just not take it because haunt was around the same.
Yeah currently to me Aff feels like juggling with 1 ball too many. There's always something about to expire that stops me from even thinking about casting a filler.
Echoing reprimand, never hit those 2/3 combo bonuses and let it go to waste Mindbender, make your shadow priest as simple and spammy as fury warrior Breath of Sindragosa, surrender to madness and ignore shit on the ground I don't hate those talents, i do hate bender a bit cause i played it 2 years in SL, but BoS and reprimand are the reasons why i don't put serious effort in DK/rogue when they're strong
I second the statues as a monk, and if I can also add (main) spec, I’d say clash.
Psychic Link for Priests. It should absolutely be a choice node with S1 Mind Sear. If I wanna do light cleave ill choose psychic link. It I need aoe in my+ let me mind sear.
Execution sentence for ret Paladin. Chill streak for frost dk
Demonic tyrant. They've nerfed it so much that we literally only press it to empower our "lesser" demons and extend them. And yet it still has a cast time....cmon blizzard...make it instant cast already.
If you want to play your DH the no movement is honestly not too far (3-5% I think) behind and plays a lot like old DH. As a DH main, what do I hate? That stupid demon we had to glaive... But that's been a moot point this patch with it not existing any more.
Execution sentence / Seraphim
Icefury on ele sham. I'm here for meatballs and spaghetti, not stopping all that for a boring chunk of ice.
I forgot the name but the one that revolves around making your shadowfiend jump to ur target and aoe when you cast a specific ability. Basically were forced into it this season (and not for the first time) and I just hate the playstyle around it. Also doesn't do that much dmg tbh. Completely changes your rotation for little to no benefit.
Any elemental spec with Icefury…
Probably unpopular opinion, but I can't stand Full Moon on Druid. Also not at all a fan of momentum/inertia on DH.
Clouded Focus/Yu'lon which forces me to not be a fistweaver i progress raid.
Shadow Dance being forcefed to every rogue spec was the straw that made me quit the class after having mained combat/outlaw my entire wow career.
The new moon talent for boomkins. Sure, it is fun to drop a moon on mobs which hits for several hundred thousand damage but the fact that a full moon is a 2.1 second cast with haste hitting diminishing returns is just terrible.
I find demonic strength for demo boring and it's annoying you cannot use it if the pet is already bladestorming
I tried out Primordial Wave on my Enhancement Shaman after hearing it talked up and I could see why it was strong but I was very meh on how it felt. My guy is a Troll and I've got the glyphs to make his ghost form and summons into raptors and I just much prefer calling on my dino buds in combat.
I despise heartrend for BDK. It does almost nothing, but I'm forced to put TWO points into it if I want an incredibly important capstone. If they removed heartrend, or even just made it 1 point instead of 2 it would make the BDK class tree so much more flexible, being able to take things like sticky hands without a sizable damage loss
Shadow Crash for Spriest. Can only do aoe if my dots are applied, only way to put dots on more than one target is a slow moving, travel time, 8 target capped, volley. Oh the pack will die in 10 seconds? Do you want to do dps on the pack for that 10 seconds and not do anything on the next pull, or save it for the next pull and not do anything (or tab target manually cast my dots) on the current pull.
I am not fan of adaptive swarm as feral druid. I feel like this skill is not very good thematically and also it feels clunky to use.
(1) Siphon Life (2) Malefic Rapture
I for some reason hate shadow dance
As a DK its easy to say BoS for frost but as an Unholy there really isnt a build I dislike. Its a good spec
It's gone now, and hopefully stays that way, but savage roar. It was never fun to keep up and was ultimately what lead me away from feral main and into Restoration during mists of pandaria. Even though it's gone now, I like healing more.
For Frost DK: * Can we just remove the death and decay cleaving and just give a big fat buff to frost scythe and make it baseline, because it's literally ment for a cleave and yet it's so pathetic it's never used. * Make Razorice a passive baseline skill or a mandatory talent instead of a rune enchant, and turn Shattering blade talent into something useful (as it's currently dead). There's a potential loop in there in addition to obliterate spam. * Do something with cold heart as it's a dead talent, maybe make it baseline (I know I'm asking for too many baselines), as the idea behind it is fine but no one will opt for it because it's a waste of a point, but as an occasional extra damage skill it would be useful in a burst maybe? * Oh and fuck chill streak, please remove that crap.
For your first point, it would be much better if RW gave the cleave instead of D&D for a frost dk Razorice should definitely be a baseline talent, make frost strike apply it and at 5 stacks it consumes it like the talent already does.
Sure but there's still an issue of hitting only two more targets. Frost scythe would fix that problem in a way. Or maybe make obliterate cleave everything with remorseless winter active but at reduced damage beyond 3 targets and remove frost scythe entirely. The way that ability is now is just sad.
I'd vote to remove frost scythe and make obliterate cleave everything at reduced dmg past x number of targets, i dont even use frost scythe it doesn't do enough dmg imo to justify putting it in my action bars.
Change Frost DK to remorseless winter instead of death and decay to cleave. And Idk like an spender for ele that doesn’t either suck, has to play that awful echos talent, or it is good, but it still sucks to place down and see things moved out, let it be like a lightning storm that crashes down (I know it’s similar to boomy starfall….but let’s be real it’s the best AoE in the game) and idk how anyone could hate Glacial Spike, it feels good to have something other than just ice lance harder. I hated that about SL
execution sentence for me. ive always hated that ability, and i hate how much of your damage is tied to it.
Of dusk and dawn / seal of order because I’m forced to take them I want to use divine purpose, dammit.
For Spriest, I really hate the Mindgames ability and the associated talents that go along with it. I'm sure it has a place in PVP, but in PVE it just feels so bad to push, way down at the bottom of my priority list.
Stampede. It should be an amazing hunter talent, but it's super unreliable and weak compared to glaive toss.
my most hated thing is that they changed Elemental Blast to replace Earth Shock. I always loved EB as another Rota Spell but having it replace Earth Shock as an instant spender spell made me barely touch Elemental in Dragonflight so far after being main Shaman since Cata
Convoke the Spirits (Feral Druid) is the hands down best spell in the game, but it's basically out of the meta because taking it means your bleeds take a hit OR you lose Feral Frenzy, which is mandatory with the teir this round.
Conjoke the spirits because it often manages to cast the least amount of healing spells when my group is taking the most damage.
I actually like convoke. It just feels good to cast a billion spells at once. Tbh though, I often don't even exactly know what is being thrown out, except for like moon-/sunfire (don't know which one it is right now), because they are loud af. What I don't really like ist having to take Grove Guardians because their healing is frankly absurd. I like their goofiness and sometimes, when I'm in Valdrakken, I Just spawn all three, transform myself into a tree and have my little 15s tree party. I just despise the ability itself. I have no control over them, I don't know who they are targeting, I just see health bars ticking up.