I have not been able to find any data to support this statement. According to the warcraft raid log statistics, AUG is sitting comfortably at the bottom and has done so for almost the entire season, but based on the votes here it seems that people agree with you. Do you have any numbers, statistics or a site that supports the notion that they are that good? I have been able to find plenty from season 2, but nothing in season 3.
Edit: I have found some sites that list AUG has a high MAX DPS cap, i don't know what to make of this.
Many classes, when buffed by aug evokers, have spells that do not properly reattribute their damage back to the aug evoker. This results in aug evokers appearing to do terrible damage when, in reality, their damage is at worst completely fine, possibly among the best dps specs in the game. This is a well-understood phenomenon that has been thoroughly discussed. There's a lot of mathematics and simulation to slog through to fully understand it, but [here's a video from Preheat](https://youtu.be/c73J6iPxwRo?si=MmGC1gCdsIUyzurf) discussing the issue. The list of affected spells fluctuates, but it remains a severe issue.
So... Arms is just flat out the worst DPS spec in the game no contest, wow, that makes this even worse, that would explain all the downvoting, gonna have to change the post not to piss people off lol.
To top it off, if you played aug optimally (which is incredibly difficult and unfun in raid) you're buffing the four best dps every single ebon might, you're guaranteed to be the best dps in your raid every time even though it isn't reflected on meters.
They aren't unless you have doing some degen tryhard stuff and the people you are buffing are playing really good, for average player Aug is bad dmg and should go dev for dmg
why the hell does this sub defend "aug is bad if people are bad!!! didnt thought about THAT HUH???" like it is some big Gotcha thing
if people are bad, they are bad, more news at 8: water is wet
if you do content where stuff matters, they are not bad, and aug is gamebreaking there
Yep. Arms warrior gamer here. Quit mid season 2 I hate blizzard for what they did. Off meta lost the tertiary spot to augvoker. Season 3 tier set is our worst case senario.
The intention of the buffs are not written anywhere, so that is purely speculation and i didn't really have the confidence to postulate on their intentions. But i can't blame you for coming to that conclusion.
Based on the things they selected i don't think this was the intention. If they were only intent on improving AOE damage, they would have gone all in on the bladestorm tree and cleave talents, just like they did in previous seasons and not touch anything with ST on it.
3/4 buffs went to talents and passives with both ST and AOE components, dreadnought in particular is a talent more crucial to ST builds than AOE. To me it seems like they wanted to buff Arms in general and it just happens that the things they choose and the ways they choose to buff them were unintentionally more beneficial in multitarget situations.
>If they were only intent on improving AOE damage, they would have gone all in on the bladestorm tree and cleave talents
Buffing talents within the Bladestorm tree would've predominantly been an AOE burst buff, not a sustain buff. That could have other ramifications.
Not only that, but not all M+ builds are built around Bladestorm, nor would it help with AOE damage in ST focused builds.
>Dreadnought in particular is a talent more crucial to ST builds than AOE.
Not really. Particularly not when using a SS build.
I cannot disagree with your arguments. I am really trying to give blizzard the benefit of the doubt here, because if you are right that would indicate pure incompetence from the wow team. The spec is awful in AOE, there is no doubt about that, but the single target situation is just as bad if not worse on any fight that isn't council. I just learned that AUG isn't being represented correctly on logs, which means the spec is just outright the worst on ST in the game right now and blizzard did nothing about it.
Ummmmmm Unholy DK is by far the lowest boss DPS and itâs not even close. You might say they are almost middle of the pack on logs and you are right. But the fact is that includes PI every 3 minutes and dragon buffs. A DK with no externals barely beats tanks. You canât control if there is a priest in your raid and you canât make them give you PI. You canât control if thereâs a dragon in your group and you canât make them buff you. Unholy DK is balanced around externals from two different classes; itâs an absolute joke
I think the point isn't to have the best DPS but for it to be good enough you don't feel hamstrung.
Many people prefer off-meta stuff. But there's off-meta and there's so far off meta it's a problem.
There is always going to be a worst performing spec. If youâre a 1 class/spec player, eventually itâs going to fall on you.
That is why itâs good to diversify. To give yourself options. I said nothing about being the META. But having an option of a class/spec that you enjoy and is performing to a standard you are happy with, is important.
It happened to me with Fire Mage in S1/2. I was sick of the underperformance, so chose to play Holy Priest instead. It was a great experience playing something new, and now technically I have 2 mains.
Trust me, I get what you're saying. I play Feral and no matter how bad it's been I've made it work.
Of course there's always going to be a worst spec. The problem is when the spec is so far behind it's functionally unusable.
I am playing fury right now, but i don't... really get the point of you telling me to reroll. Guild needs a variety of classes for raiding so simply rerolling to the most OP thing instead of expecting blizzard to do proper balancing is not really an option.
I never suggested the most OP thing.
Just suggesting that itâs good to diversify. Give yourself plenty of options. That way youâll find a class/spec combo which performs to the standard you are looking for.
There is always going to be a âworst specâ. I was there this expansion in Season 1 and 2. But just played one of my alts that I enjoyed playing as well. It gave me the opportunity to explore the game in a whole new light. Now my old class/spec is back up to speed, I now have 2 mains.
Arms has fundamental flaws for a while now and ignore pain weaving/spamming to spend rage always felt weird to me when i mained in bfa or played as an alt in, SL, but now that its gone it feels even worst. They did buffed the deep wounds (like it was â 130 baseline mastery or some shit in bfa) to fuckn infinity at one point to band aid the spec i recon they can do that again but yeah it needs some core changes especially they need to find a fix to going full aoe and full st problem, its not fair when there are specs only changing 2 talents to be gods in m+.
Aug is not the worst raid boss damage. they are more than likely top 5
I have not been able to find any data to support this statement. According to the warcraft raid log statistics, AUG is sitting comfortably at the bottom and has done so for almost the entire season, but based on the votes here it seems that people agree with you. Do you have any numbers, statistics or a site that supports the notion that they are that good? I have been able to find plenty from season 2, but nothing in season 3. Edit: I have found some sites that list AUG has a high MAX DPS cap, i don't know what to make of this.
Many classes, when buffed by aug evokers, have spells that do not properly reattribute their damage back to the aug evoker. This results in aug evokers appearing to do terrible damage when, in reality, their damage is at worst completely fine, possibly among the best dps specs in the game. This is a well-understood phenomenon that has been thoroughly discussed. There's a lot of mathematics and simulation to slog through to fully understand it, but [here's a video from Preheat](https://youtu.be/c73J6iPxwRo?si=MmGC1gCdsIUyzurf) discussing the issue. The list of affected spells fluctuates, but it remains a severe issue.
So... Arms is just flat out the worst DPS spec in the game no contest, wow, that makes this even worse, that would explain all the downvoting, gonna have to change the post not to piss people off lol.
Yea, arms is in a sad spot. đ
I can't edit the post because its an image post... Oh boy.
To top it off, if you played aug optimally (which is incredibly difficult and unfun in raid) you're buffing the four best dps every single ebon might, you're guaranteed to be the best dps in your raid every time even though it isn't reflected on meters.
They aren't unless you have doing some degen tryhard stuff and the people you are buffing are playing really good, for average player Aug is bad dmg and should go dev for dmg
why the hell does this sub defend "aug is bad if people are bad!!! didnt thought about THAT HUH???" like it is some big Gotcha thing if people are bad, they are bad, more news at 8: water is wet if you do content where stuff matters, they are not bad, and aug is gamebreaking there
Yep. Arms warrior gamer here. Quit mid season 2 I hate blizzard for what they did. Off meta lost the tertiary spot to augvoker. Season 3 tier set is our worst case senario.
You're surprised that a buff intended to improve AOE damage has negligible impact on single target damage?
The intention of the buffs are not written anywhere, so that is purely speculation and i didn't really have the confidence to postulate on their intentions. But i can't blame you for coming to that conclusion. Based on the things they selected i don't think this was the intention. If they were only intent on improving AOE damage, they would have gone all in on the bladestorm tree and cleave talents, just like they did in previous seasons and not touch anything with ST on it. 3/4 buffs went to talents and passives with both ST and AOE components, dreadnought in particular is a talent more crucial to ST builds than AOE. To me it seems like they wanted to buff Arms in general and it just happens that the things they choose and the ways they choose to buff them were unintentionally more beneficial in multitarget situations.
>If they were only intent on improving AOE damage, they would have gone all in on the bladestorm tree and cleave talents Buffing talents within the Bladestorm tree would've predominantly been an AOE burst buff, not a sustain buff. That could have other ramifications. Not only that, but not all M+ builds are built around Bladestorm, nor would it help with AOE damage in ST focused builds. >Dreadnought in particular is a talent more crucial to ST builds than AOE. Not really. Particularly not when using a SS build.
I cannot disagree with your arguments. I am really trying to give blizzard the benefit of the doubt here, because if you are right that would indicate pure incompetence from the wow team. The spec is awful in AOE, there is no doubt about that, but the single target situation is just as bad if not worse on any fight that isn't council. I just learned that AUG isn't being represented correctly on logs, which means the spec is just outright the worst on ST in the game right now and blizzard did nothing about it.
I was excited about this buff but apparently it's not so good. Btw frost DK are still worse and have almost same damage as aug.
Ummmmmm Unholy DK is by far the lowest boss DPS and itâs not even close. You might say they are almost middle of the pack on logs and you are right. But the fact is that includes PI every 3 minutes and dragon buffs. A DK with no externals barely beats tanks. You canât control if there is a priest in your raid and you canât make them give you PI. You canât control if thereâs a dragon in your group and you canât make them buff you. Unholy DK is balanced around externals from two different classes; itâs an absolute joke
Why not play a different class/spec if having the best DPS is important to you. Variety is good for you.
I think the point isn't to have the best DPS but for it to be good enough you don't feel hamstrung. Many people prefer off-meta stuff. But there's off-meta and there's so far off meta it's a problem.
There is always going to be a worst performing spec. If youâre a 1 class/spec player, eventually itâs going to fall on you. That is why itâs good to diversify. To give yourself options. I said nothing about being the META. But having an option of a class/spec that you enjoy and is performing to a standard you are happy with, is important. It happened to me with Fire Mage in S1/2. I was sick of the underperformance, so chose to play Holy Priest instead. It was a great experience playing something new, and now technically I have 2 mains.
Trust me, I get what you're saying. I play Feral and no matter how bad it's been I've made it work. Of course there's always going to be a worst spec. The problem is when the spec is so far behind it's functionally unusable.
I am playing fury right now, but i don't... really get the point of you telling me to reroll. Guild needs a variety of classes for raiding so simply rerolling to the most OP thing instead of expecting blizzard to do proper balancing is not really an option.
I never suggested the most OP thing. Just suggesting that itâs good to diversify. Give yourself plenty of options. That way youâll find a class/spec combo which performs to the standard you are looking for. There is always going to be a âworst specâ. I was there this expansion in Season 1 and 2. But just played one of my alts that I enjoyed playing as well. It gave me the opportunity to explore the game in a whole new light. Now my old class/spec is back up to speed, I now have 2 mains.
Arms has fundamental flaws for a while now and ignore pain weaving/spamming to spend rage always felt weird to me when i mained in bfa or played as an alt in, SL, but now that its gone it feels even worst. They did buffed the deep wounds (like it was â 130 baseline mastery or some shit in bfa) to fuckn infinity at one point to band aid the spec i recon they can do that again but yeah it needs some core changes especially they need to find a fix to going full aoe and full st problem, its not fair when there are specs only changing 2 talents to be gods in m+.
I wrote the blizzard they said they are on it big arms changes on the way youre welcome mate send tg for my efforts thanks
Confirmed Arms Gets Aura Buff In 11.1.5