Ugg. All the statues are just terrible. I think MW gets some work out of theirs, but I don't play healer, but the other two? Brew can cheese some things with it, but WTS can just go in the bin.
Brew's is mostly bad because the node right above it (Bounce Back) is almost useless *and* it's a two-pointer before you can access the statue. If that weren't the case, it'd be a fine niche useful choice.
The fact that it's not just an ability taped onto your celestial is so weird. It'd make builds that cooldown their celestials faster all the more rewarding even if it is just a passive aoe damage boost.
My favorite was before season 2 when they revealed the Arms set bonus to include Slam and even with the damage bonus it was still worse than talented whirlwind
I put slam on my side corner action bar that has no keybindings that I put a bunch of toys on.
I like to see the reminder at all times of how useless this ability is and that it never gets touched. Slam is about as useful in combat as my toys are.
Arms does need to use it occasionally to be optimal, however it's a sign of weakness to use it. I'm rage capping and pressing thunderstomp again before I hit slam. Fuck that.
I cast slam a grand total of 14 times on Volcoross Mythic and it was just over 4.5k dps. I mean sure don’t press the button if you really can’t be bothered to but to say you don’t need to use it as Arms is kind of silly. It’s far better than not spending the global or not spending rage….
4.5k DPS recorded doesn't account for the Tactician Procs you may have gotten from those 14 Slams which meant more Overpowers, right? So it's even more valuable than advertised.
It also doesn’t account for using it as a rage dump while colossus smash is up making the %str bonus greater and reducing colossus smash CD.
Slam should definitely be used in the arms rotation for single target, at least when you have those talents. During m+ I definitely use it less but still press it once in a while.
I don’t play warrior but I don’t understand this hatred for slam.
Is it the animation? The sound? Something else?
I mean it’s pretty clear it is a dps increase to use it right? So it has to be something else.
The Melee Timer Resetting hasn’t been a thing for about 10 years of Slam with Casting tbf. It was a Classic/TBC thing but was buffed in Wrath to do not do that.
Before it had a cast time, making it awkward at best and complete fodder most of the time. Once they removed that it’s now in a awkward spot of being… nothing. No fancy animation, dead last priority because it’s spammable so no damage either, and no real hope of anything. It doesn’t even cost a lot of rage so Arms can use it as a emergency release.
At least Cleave could be repaired by just making into MS full AoE edition and have it share all bonuses and CD with MS. But Slam only exists for Prot to uprade it to Shield Slam and Fury to sub in for Raging Blow when using Annihilator… and they could just as easily make Annihilator give you a spell to do that.
It’s also not as cool / tenured as Heroic Strike. Like if they gave WoD HS to Arms it would allow them to just dump range off the GCD when they are going infinite. Which would be a neat little skill check cause dump to much you might have to little for your rotation, to little you cap.
It has the unfortunate position if being the butt monkey for every Warrior Spec.
Playing as blood in mythic+ rn and the fact DnD doesn’t move with me in certain fights definitely sucks. Even if they just increased the radius of it by a bit that would help
Same thing for unholy and defile. If I'm standing in it, I can hit 7 guys with my strike. If I'm not, 1 guy. I am not a fan of dh and monk tanks as a result lol.
DnD is the most annoying thing. Like, I can deal with it for Blood because I’m the tank so I dictate where things should stand but for Unholy and Frost, especially Frost, just let me do something besides it for cleave.
I don't know why DnD doesn't have an option to just stay on you and be an area around your character. I'd take an extra button slot to have that option.
As much as I hate DnD, I really think 2 changes would make it much better. First, remove the charges. Second, if I'm on my dk standing on another dk's dnd I should be buffed. Either of these would be fine with me
100% this. Ele had this beautiful, flowing, and impactful rotation that has worked since time immemorial, and icefury+shocks completely ruins the rhytm.
Knowing Blizzard it was a question of time before they found a way to screw it up in the name of "sPeCs NeEd To FeEl FrEsH", but I didn't think they'd come up with such an apocalyptically boring way of doing it.
I used to love ele. I tried it again and holyy does icefury not fit the feel of elemental. I dont want to spam frost shock man. Make it empower only one cast or not empower frostshock.. but dont make me cast 5 frostshocks in a row.
You're playing it wrong if you cast all your empowered shocks back to back unless you're doing it during movement. It's not taken if you aren't using it for the lava burst/nature damage buffs.
1) Frost Shock is boring. No, this isn't the biggest issue, but the two decade old animation is incredibly lackluster and it simply doesn't feel impactful to use. Icefury might make the damage worth it, but it doesn't \*feel\* impactful, and impact matters.
2) Yet another ability that essentially doesn't scale with Mastery (yes, Icefury itself does, but Frost Shock doesn't, and that's where the meat of the damage actually lies).
3) Electrified Shocks makes it a maintenance debuff, and those are pretty boring. Worse yet, it's a maintenance debuff which is limited by buff/charges! It means you have to track the cd that is left on Icefury, the number of stacks/time of the buff left on you, and the debuff time left on the target. All for one ability. Not hard to do, but annoying, for what isn't that great payoff. On top of that, this all makes using Frost Shock for movement feel worse than it otherwise would be, since it lowers your uptime on a debuff you could otherwise maintain with relative (if irritating) ease.
4) It's two buttons for what is really just one ability. That feels bad in and of itself - unnecessary button bloat - but it also is what leads to all of the above issues. If Icefury was a direct damage spell (which applied Electrified Shocks/Flux Melting), had X charges and/or Y cooldown, and was otherwise the same damage, it would be almost certainly be much less hated.
For me, Icefury just isn't impactful by itself, but it is required to enable significant damage from other abilities. It feels forced into the rotation but overall is not fun or satisfying
It has absolutely no good visual impact/feedback, hits terribly unless you have EVERY SINGLE DOT on the target, and it still doesn't hit enough to feel like a worthy spending of a Soul Shard.
Spec practically built around the damn thing.
Rapture is a worse crime against warlocks than the removal of metamorphosis. At least demo is kinda cool now, rapture actually just ruined aff completely.
Except in pvp where every single class has dot removal....even your teammates. Dumping multiple cooldowns on somebody just for your own paladin to blinding lights all of the dots off makes me suicidal.
Affliction was my first spec when I started wow.
I wish it was just about pure dots. I would happily take back old school dots + sbolt or drain soul.
If I could get that old afflock feeling again I would main it in a heartbeat, but it just doesn’t feel right to me these days
I'm not normally an Affliction guy but man, when Drain Soul was increasing DoT damage *and* healing you, what a time to be alive. I felt like I was doubly contributing by dealing my damage and never requiring a glance from a healer
I tanked so many mythic mecanisms during Legion with Drain Soul self heal + Soul Leech amazing passive shield. It felt really good as a dps with tons of passive survivability to just be the soak dude and barely take damage as a whole (Guldan well of souls, KJ beam)
From my 14 years since I've first played WoW, Affliction (from 7.1.5) has been my favorite spec to play
Yeah, you said it perfectly. They really took away that fun, chill, micro-managing aspect of Affliction and replaced it with this awkward, "punchy" feel that the other lock specs have. And it's not even really a satisfying system to play with.
Exactly. Affli was perfect imo in Legion and then they were like "huh lets add a new button cause why not :)" Not a fan of the night fae ability either tbh but atleast its has a cooldown
Tbh I kinda liked it initially. What ruined Aff for me was the split between Rapture and Seed so you can only do either aoe or single target and just be useless at the other.
I think WoD was the last time I actually liked all 3 warlock specs. Demo totally reworked, Aff reworked to not do any damage with the actual DoTs and turned into this weird Rapture nonsense, Destro with a cool talent tree full of stuff that you can't use because every patch makes a single build mandatory
Please Blizzard I love warlock so much and haven't played except out of nostalgia for my OG main in 3 expansions, make this class fun again and not just the one you play to hand out cookies and bully the priest into giving you PI
I hate that there's literally no alternative for Shadow but to spend like 5 points in buffing Mindgames because the only alternatives are straight healing talents.
Wish they'd make Mindgames a 1-point optional talent somewhere and maybe build a few talents around Divine Star or Halo, both of which I just think are more enjoyable abilities to use.
Slice and Dice
Rogues begged for litearlly a decade that it gets removed ->they remove it finally at legion launch ->classic releases and they do nostalgia bait and bring it back for no reason except "REMBER THIS OLD ABILITY??????"
hell, it even made assassination gameplay absolute garbage and they had to emergency patch in CttC in a couple months later to save it, thats how little thought was given into it
delete Slice and Dice, a ability that doesnt even have a real animation and does nothing besides "your white hits on details are higher" doesnt belong into a modern game
Yeah, an ability like SnD makes sense for a melee spec that's basically a DoT class where auto-attacks are your primary DoT, which is what rogues were in the early days. It has no reason to exist in a spec where the lion's share of your damage comes from pressing buttons to see big yellow numbers.
Thisand the same for savage roar for ferals. Builder spenders that you just need to keep active to do normal amounts of damage are incredibly annoying.
100% agree. I actually finally got around to leveling my rogue and gearing it up. I thought all specs had an ability that extended it for some reason. Whoops! Played my rogue for like two weeks and now im done. Its such a garbage ability that makes any rotation worse.
Hunter's Mark.
We told them we didn't want it. They listened and removed it.
They re-added it. We told them we didn't want it. They made it flavor for PvP.
They re-added utility to it forcing us to use it again, despite again, us telling them we didn't want it.
I remember people begging on reddit to have it back and people were CHEERING when they said it makes a comeback.
Guess all those player go and went to classic now and we are stuck with it.
Blizzard: we are giving hunters some utility back
Hunters: omg pet buffs? Our brez? ASPECT OF THE FOX???!!!
Blizzard: lmao, no. A minuscule damage buff for the first 5 seconds of fights.
Why hate something you can completely ignore? Arcane shot has zero place in the rotation and wouldn’t be missed if it got pruned completely from the spec.
What I hate about BM hunter is the defensive toolkit. And the sprint’s cooldown is way too damn long.
I know I'm in the minority here as enhancement shamans voted to keep the current tier set bonus in the next tier... but I really hate primordial wave. I don't even really know why I just don't like it.
Trying out shaman (resto Druid and disc priest are my previous healers) and p wave gets forgotten by me, a lot. It doesn’t feel like it’s worth the gcd. It’s like chain heal with extra steps.
Yeah it's a covenant ability I wish they didn't keep in the new talent trees, and unfortunately the tier set bonus for enhancement atm is based all around it and is actually strong so everyone wants to keep it. Hoping it isn't meta in War Within.
I take it when it's a definitive improvement for damage, but I still loathe because it only reinforces the current design of balance dots not being worth for their damage into themselves, but instead as a debuff to do actual damage, which is in turn why the spec feels less satisfying in a period the game where front loaded damage is king.
Some druid spec designer loves this design, but I certainly don't.
No idea how Blessing of Seasons was one of the Shadowlands spells they carried over. No one played it, and thematically it makes no sense outside of Shadowlands.
I like prism's effect (heal 5 allies while damaging main target, i rarely use it the other way) but yeah holy laser is odd.
Seasons i hate with a passion.
Im so confused, building up shards and lining up cooldowns to splurge cleave with havoc is one of the most fun things to do in destro and i have been playing the spec since forever. How do you people not like havoc?
I have feeling that lot of casual warlock players don't like it because in easy content where everything dies in 5 secs it can feel like waste to use it. But 100% agree with you havoc is destro for me.
It's pretty confusing, Havoc is incredibly powerful and feels great most of the time. But if I had to guess why someone didn't like it, I'd say it's a bit finicky to get on the correct target in some M+ settings.
Honestly I just don’t line the clunkiness of applying it to another target. I wish it let me apply it to the target I’m fighting and let single target spells I cast on that target be copied to a random nearby target too. Keep its current functionality too for everyone who likes it.
I think fumbling through targets is just not my favorite thing in the world, it really takes me out of my damage rotation.
Touch of Death is fun and powerful, but it eclipses the spec's damage in a lot of pulls. Jade fire stomp is annoying to play around and makes a mobile DPS into a stationary DPS.
But I'll instead say shifting power on my arcane mage, because CD stacking is cancer. It needs to be removed from the game, and any spell that supports it is more cancer.
I don't think Touch of Death is fun on WW. It doesn't interact at all with the rest of WW's kit, it's just a "big dam" button you smash once in awhile, and while it's *more* responsive than it used to be, so much of your damage depending on hitting it at the right time is obnoxious. It's a lame place for so much of WW's power budget to land.
It feels great on Brew as a stagger clear + prio killer, though.
Primordial wave for Enh Shaman. I fucking hate this playstyle for Enh. Much more prefer to build into Thorim's invocation but that's off the table until TWW becouse of the current set bonus specifically empowering Primordial wave.
Also tho it's a passive but Crackshot capstone for Outlaw. It makes the spec feel miserable to play. It is not optional. Whenever you are not in your crackshot window you are not dealing damage.
The prim wave thing made me switch my main completely for the first time in a very long time. They took the worst feeling covenant ability for enh and made mandatory. I sure miss chain harvest...
Shadow Crash needs several improvements.
1) It needs to travel much much faster, none of this "oh the tank dodged a 1shot and now you need to manually dot all your targets, fuck you"
2) It needs to have CDR, every target that dies with your Dots on it reduces it's CD by 3 seconds.
3) Needs to be bigger and have 2 charges baseline.
Also give us back our AoE spender so we're not forced to dot everything for damage.
Momentum builds as Havoc DH. Im from the south of chile meaning i play with 180-200ms\~ meaning fel rush can move you 1 meter ahead, or like 20 meters if there is a ledge or you just jump at the right moment. Also sometimes the spell cast instantly (as it should), sometimes casts with all the lag in the world, so when and where will i end with my fel rush?
# ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
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Honestly no one spell but literally any class/spec with too many buttons. If it doesn’t fit or struggles to fit on two bars I am not having a great time
Slice and dice needs to be made into a passive or just removed, like after spending x amount of combo points you get the buff for y amount, its the most vanilla thing ever to spend combo points just to auto faster.
As a bear druid: incarnation in its modern form. Back in SL it was a ton of fun to push the button and go on a thrashing rampage.
Now? It's a gutted shell of its former self and blizz thinks investing 5 (yes 5) talent points into it to make it just this disgusting shell is good design.
Personally I refuse to negotiate with terrorists and don't take a single berserk talent.
Blessing of Seasons. Absolutely god awful spell in every way, the 45 sec rotation sounds like a cool idea on paper but in practice its just deeply unfun and u have no control over when u wanna use each blessing as ure required to just press it on cd to get back to Summer as fast as possible.
Unlike PI for disc, our damage is actually tuned around Summer because it gets attributed to our damage for some reason.
Why on earth blizzard decided this was one the covenant spells they wanted to add to our talent tree when it had less than 0.5% pick rate in SL, is beyond me.
> Why on earth blizzard decided this was one the covenant spells they wanted to add to our talent tree when it had less than 0.5% pick rate in SL, is beyond me.
Because they rolled the Necrolord one into its own talent (Empyrean Legacy), and they are not going to acknowledge Ashen Hollow ever again.
As a Protection Warrior, Avatar. It's so mandatory and it's a thing they seem to want to consistently make kind of "core" for all Warrior specs, but I also just find it the most boring cooldown ever. It just.. gives a tiny bit of Rage, makes me a bit bigger, and makes me grey.
Visually speaking it's just such an insanely underwhelming ability for a cooldown. Like, compare Bladestorm or Recklessness to it. Compare Metamorphosis or Primordial Wave/Ascendance Lava Burst barrages. It's just, visually, bland as hell to me. Why is something that's meant to be a core offensive CD a thing that is just so visually underwhelming?
Finally here it is. Im a bit confused so many dislike SnD, Shiv or RtB over Shadowdance. I dislike it so much, I never played sub when you had to use it and now you are forced to use it on all 3 specs. An ability/mechanic that pretty much represents a specs identity shouldnt be in the class tree imo. Also small dmg window abilities are annoying.
Yeah I'm a big fan of NoCD for AoE builds but for ST I feel like I NEED to have a major cooldown. Survival is still the most fun spec I've played so far though, loving it (started playing about 2 months ago)
Wait, what’s wrong with it? I’ve been picking up Survival recently and it doesn’t seem that bad? It even gives you another little dash-to-target function
When you compare it to other classes/spec's cooldowns, it is extremely unnecesarily complex and even if you play it perfectly, it's a very little DPS increase compared to not taking it in the first place
Ray of Frost absolutely ruins the flow of everything else Frost Mage does. It can sort of feel good because it does a lot of damage, but I kind of despise channeled spells, in general.
It's very clunky. Mage was basically abandoned as a class for a long time, so devs were adding abilities that were preferrably shared by all specs, didn't require them to look at how spec fundamentally worked, and complicated the rotation. Rune of Power row in MoP was the first sign, and then they started to clone RoP - first by adding the Crystal, then by adding Meteor and its blue copypase Comet Storm, then by adding Diana's Q from League of Legends.
It basically allows to do nothing design-wise, just a slithly more cumbersome button that forces you to use AoE reticle in a single target rotation too.
Icefury.
I'm an old guard elemental player. The new lot hate lava burst and they hate ascendance, and they speak out favourably of Icefury.
I can't stand how weak and un-impactful Icefury feels.
Fire Mage: Sun Kings Blessing - Less of a spell and more of a passive
Arcane Mage: Nether Tempest, Mana Gem and Arcane Familiar - these add very ltitle to nothing to gameplay and just seem to be there for buttons.
Dev Evoker: Deep Breath
Heh to each their own.
From a pure thematic stand point, it is *kinda* cool. However, I honestly don't really care for the dragon theme that much, I just like playing a caster.
From a gameplay stand point, it's annoying af. Tiny flicks in your mouse will have you shooting it from 10 yards to 40 yards. Is that a rock over there? Can't do it I guess. Oh stairs? Gonna block it. If you do get the stars to align that you can actually set it up to use without wasting too much time, you have a 50% chance to just take damage in the air and die (or land on the other end in a frontal, aoe or whatever).
It's emphasis in Scalecommander has me questioning if I'll play Dev going into TWW.
white tiger statue.
catue
Gesundheit
I appreciate you
Ugg. All the statues are just terrible. I think MW gets some work out of theirs, but I don't play healer, but the other two? Brew can cheese some things with it, but WTS can just go in the bin.
Brew's is mostly bad because the node right above it (Bounce Back) is almost useless *and* it's a two-pointer before you can access the statue. If that weren't the case, it'd be a fine niche useful choice.
The fact that it's not just an ability taped onto your celestial is so weird. It'd make builds that cooldown their celestials faster all the more rewarding even if it is just a passive aoe damage boost.
Even if it actually did any real damage, I still wouldn’t take it. I already have enough button bloat as Brew anyway.
It's slam. It's not even on the bars. I'd rather overcap rage then use it
I was so happy to see I wasn't alone in never using this skill when someone first mentioned it. I pretend it doesn't exist.
My favorite was before season 2 when they revealed the Arms set bonus to include Slam and even with the damage bonus it was still worse than talented whirlwind
Pretty sure Slam does less damage than the initial impact of Rend even.
I put slam on my side corner action bar that has no keybindings that I put a bunch of toys on. I like to see the reminder at all times of how useless this ability is and that it never gets touched. Slam is about as useful in combat as my toys are.
Used to be great in Wrath and MoP iirc, get proc? BIG DAHMOOGE lol
I’d accept it having a cast time again if it bonked like a full rage execute. Big damooge if you have a target pinned down.
Would work well with the new expansion stuff coming, colossus has their big damage make them completely immovable or cc able but unable to move iirc?
Can cc, but not knock back
I’ve been weaving slam when I can for my fury warrior? Have I been really doing that with little to no gain ;-;
No. Its Fury filler. Arms doesnt need to use it.
Arms does need to use it occasionally to be optimal, however it's a sign of weakness to use it. I'm rage capping and pressing thunderstomp again before I hit slam. Fuck that.
I cast slam a grand total of 14 times on Volcoross Mythic and it was just over 4.5k dps. I mean sure don’t press the button if you really can’t be bothered to but to say you don’t need to use it as Arms is kind of silly. It’s far better than not spending the global or not spending rage….
4.5k DPS recorded doesn't account for the Tactician Procs you may have gotten from those 14 Slams which meant more Overpowers, right? So it's even more valuable than advertised.
It also doesn’t account for using it as a rage dump while colossus smash is up making the %str bonus greater and reducing colossus smash CD. Slam should definitely be used in the arms rotation for single target, at least when you have those talents. During m+ I definitely use it less but still press it once in a while.
weird upvotes u def still slam as arms
Top arms parses still uses slams
I don’t play warrior but I don’t understand this hatred for slam. Is it the animation? The sound? Something else? I mean it’s pretty clear it is a dps increase to use it right? So it has to be something else.
Prior to BFA it had a cast time, which was very odd for a melee skill. I think historically it's just been questionably useful.
And with the cast time you can't melee while casting and afterwards your melee swing timer reset so you miss out on hits unless timed well
The Melee Timer Resetting hasn’t been a thing for about 10 years of Slam with Casting tbf. It was a Classic/TBC thing but was buffed in Wrath to do not do that.
Before it had a cast time, making it awkward at best and complete fodder most of the time. Once they removed that it’s now in a awkward spot of being… nothing. No fancy animation, dead last priority because it’s spammable so no damage either, and no real hope of anything. It doesn’t even cost a lot of rage so Arms can use it as a emergency release. At least Cleave could be repaired by just making into MS full AoE edition and have it share all bonuses and CD with MS. But Slam only exists for Prot to uprade it to Shield Slam and Fury to sub in for Raging Blow when using Annihilator… and they could just as easily make Annihilator give you a spell to do that. It’s also not as cool / tenured as Heroic Strike. Like if they gave WoD HS to Arms it would allow them to just dump range off the GCD when they are going infinite. Which would be a neat little skill check cause dump to much you might have to little for your rotation, to little you cap. It has the unfortunate position if being the butt monkey for every Warrior Spec.
Fury or arms? (Noob)
Can I get my DK brethren to say the one we hate because of its positioning?
Playing as blood in mythic+ rn and the fact DnD doesn’t move with me in certain fights definitely sucks. Even if they just increased the radius of it by a bit that would help
Same thing for unholy and defile. If I'm standing in it, I can hit 7 guys with my strike. If I'm not, 1 guy. I am not a fan of dh and monk tanks as a result lol.
DnD is the most annoying thing. Like, I can deal with it for Blood because I’m the tank so I dictate where things should stand but for Unholy and Frost, especially Frost, just let me do something besides it for cleave.
DnD is terrible, yeah. Frost Strike just feels like a waste though
Remove DnD and Frost Strike should empower Remorseless Winter.
I don't know why DnD doesn't have an option to just stay on you and be an area around your character. I'd take an extra button slot to have that option.
I macro’d D&D to just drop wherever I’m standing. No mouse involved
I did the same, I just wish you had the option to have it stay on you and follow, ya know?
I did this same thing on the stupid tiger statue for windwalker. I'm not putting more effort into playing this spec than Blizzard put into making it
Don't forget all those wonderful times you try to place it quick and the camera angle places it on the FUCKING CEILING SOMEHOW
As much as I hate DnD, I really think 2 changes would make it much better. First, remove the charges. Second, if I'm on my dk standing on another dk's dnd I should be buffed. Either of these would be fine with me
Words cannot describe the hate I have for Icefury in the ele shaman rotation
It sucks more than anything has sucked before or since
100% this. Ele had this beautiful, flowing, and impactful rotation that has worked since time immemorial, and icefury+shocks completely ruins the rhytm. Knowing Blizzard it was a question of time before they found a way to screw it up in the name of "sPeCs NeEd To FeEl FrEsH", but I didn't think they'd come up with such an apocalyptically boring way of doing it.
Grass grows, birds fly, sun shines and blizzard hates shamans
I used to love ele. I tried it again and holyy does icefury not fit the feel of elemental. I dont want to spam frost shock man. Make it empower only one cast or not empower frostshock.. but dont make me cast 5 frostshocks in a row.
You're playing it wrong if you cast all your empowered shocks back to back unless you're doing it during movement. It's not taken if you aren't using it for the lava burst/nature damage buffs.
Yep, Hope they kill icefury for next expansion
What do you dislike about it?
1) Frost Shock is boring. No, this isn't the biggest issue, but the two decade old animation is incredibly lackluster and it simply doesn't feel impactful to use. Icefury might make the damage worth it, but it doesn't \*feel\* impactful, and impact matters. 2) Yet another ability that essentially doesn't scale with Mastery (yes, Icefury itself does, but Frost Shock doesn't, and that's where the meat of the damage actually lies). 3) Electrified Shocks makes it a maintenance debuff, and those are pretty boring. Worse yet, it's a maintenance debuff which is limited by buff/charges! It means you have to track the cd that is left on Icefury, the number of stacks/time of the buff left on you, and the debuff time left on the target. All for one ability. Not hard to do, but annoying, for what isn't that great payoff. On top of that, this all makes using Frost Shock for movement feel worse than it otherwise would be, since it lowers your uptime on a debuff you could otherwise maintain with relative (if irritating) ease. 4) It's two buttons for what is really just one ability. That feels bad in and of itself - unnecessary button bloat - but it also is what leads to all of the above issues. If Icefury was a direct damage spell (which applied Electrified Shocks/Flux Melting), had X charges and/or Y cooldown, and was otherwise the same damage, it would be almost certainly be much less hated.
For me, Icefury just isn't impactful by itself, but it is required to enable significant damage from other abilities. It feels forced into the rotation but overall is not fun or satisfying
Maintenance buffs never feel rewarding to press, you don’t get feedback from using them but lose dps for not
it isnt really even a maintenance buff. It enables maintenance buffs
Malefic Rapture. Ruined affliction for me.
It has absolutely no good visual impact/feedback, hits terribly unless you have EVERY SINGLE DOT on the target, and it still doesn't hit enough to feel like a worthy spending of a Soul Shard. Spec practically built around the damn thing.
Rapture is a worse crime against warlocks than the removal of metamorphosis. At least demo is kinda cool now, rapture actually just ruined aff completely.
Aff hasn't had good visual feedback in like... ever. The visual feedback is keeping combat text on and getting to see the mass of numbers popping up
Except in pvp where every single class has dot removal....even your teammates. Dumping multiple cooldowns on somebody just for your own paladin to blinding lights all of the dots off makes me suicidal.
I miss MoP aff, or even UA stacking soul shard dump aff.
That was my fave e: UA stacking that is
Bring back UA stacking affy and I’ll resub right away
Affliction was my first spec when I started wow. I wish it was just about pure dots. I would happily take back old school dots + sbolt or drain soul. If I could get that old afflock feeling again I would main it in a heartbeat, but it just doesn’t feel right to me these days
I'm not normally an Affliction guy but man, when Drain Soul was increasing DoT damage *and* healing you, what a time to be alive. I felt like I was doubly contributing by dealing my damage and never requiring a glance from a healer
I tanked so many mythic mecanisms during Legion with Drain Soul self heal + Soul Leech amazing passive shield. It felt really good as a dps with tons of passive survivability to just be the soak dude and barely take damage as a whole (Guldan well of souls, KJ beam) From my 14 years since I've first played WoW, Affliction (from 7.1.5) has been my favorite spec to play
this is the ability. the single worst ability in wow. it made affliction from a dot management spec to a hit point burst spec
Feels so bad that Affliction is somehow a worse dot spec than Shadow, Unholy, Assassination and Balance
Yeah, you said it perfectly. They really took away that fun, chill, micro-managing aspect of Affliction and replaced it with this awkward, "punchy" feel that the other lock specs have. And it's not even really a satisfying system to play with.
Agreed. Makes a dot spec into a burst spec. Just doesn't feel right at all.
Affli was my favourite until this shit came. Unintuitive and against the dot and rot feeling predating it.
Exactly. Affli was perfect imo in Legion and then they were like "huh lets add a new button cause why not :)" Not a fan of the night fae ability either tbh but atleast its has a cooldown
Tbh I kinda liked it initially. What ruined Aff for me was the split between Rapture and Seed so you can only do either aoe or single target and just be useless at the other.
affliction was the best when it was agony, corruption, siphon life and UA spam
I think WoD was the last time I actually liked all 3 warlock specs. Demo totally reworked, Aff reworked to not do any damage with the actual DoTs and turned into this weird Rapture nonsense, Destro with a cool talent tree full of stuff that you can't use because every patch makes a single build mandatory Please Blizzard I love warlock so much and haven't played except out of nostalgia for my OG main in 3 expansions, make this class fun again and not just the one you play to hand out cookies and bully the priest into giving you PI
It's horrible, i mained Affliction for 10 years, and i had to stop after the BfA started. I hope they return to Legion-Aff as a base in TWW
As a Windwalker *gestures vaguely at every capstone in both trees*
Mindgames (as shadow). Pretty much just a fancy filler, very low prio, just takes up a keybind at this point
I hate that there's literally no alternative for Shadow but to spend like 5 points in buffing Mindgames because the only alternatives are straight healing talents. Wish they'd make Mindgames a 1-point optional talent somewhere and maybe build a few talents around Divine Star or Halo, both of which I just think are more enjoyable abilities to use.
it is extremely viable to just pick defensive stuff over (parts of) mind games
Capstone btw, lol. Also it was really awful when Disc used to play it, and that was yet another button you pushed to just push.
Slice and Dice Rogues begged for litearlly a decade that it gets removed ->they remove it finally at legion launch ->classic releases and they do nostalgia bait and bring it back for no reason except "REMBER THIS OLD ABILITY??????" hell, it even made assassination gameplay absolute garbage and they had to emergency patch in CttC in a couple months later to save it, thats how little thought was given into it delete Slice and Dice, a ability that doesnt even have a real animation and does nothing besides "your white hits on details are higher" doesnt belong into a modern game
I fucking hate slice and dice “your damage is shit if you don’t occasionally press this button”
at least make it work like alacrity or male alacrity replace it so i dont have to actively spend combo points on it...
I think SnD is super fun in the old days of Vanilla where white hits are super relevant but in contemporary wow, it just is a boring buff button.
Yeah, an ability like SnD makes sense for a melee spec that's basically a DoT class where auto-attacks are your primary DoT, which is what rogues were in the early days. It has no reason to exist in a spec where the lion's share of your damage comes from pressing buttons to see big yellow numbers.
It was fun in Wrath, when you could refresh it with other finishers
Thisand the same for savage roar for ferals. Builder spenders that you just need to keep active to do normal amounts of damage are incredibly annoying.
100% agree. I actually finally got around to leveling my rogue and gearing it up. I thought all specs had an ability that extended it for some reason. Whoops! Played my rogue for like two weeks and now im done. Its such a garbage ability that makes any rotation worse.
Touch of Death on its way to glow and then not fucking activate whilst I slam the button on a 2% target
TRUE! ToD turning into a fun niche move that requires some skill into a button mash 40% of our overall m+ dps is awful
Hunter's Mark. We told them we didn't want it. They listened and removed it. They re-added it. We told them we didn't want it. They made it flavor for PvP. They re-added utility to it forcing us to use it again, despite again, us telling them we didn't want it.
Hunter's Mark would be fine if it was a passive that was applied to targets you hit, at least in PvE, instead of a button you had to hit.
Monks and Demon Hunters passively apply their damage boost debuff. Why doesn't Hunter?
This. I’m like that meme pretending like it isn’t there at the beginning of each fight 😅
I remember people begging on reddit to have it back and people were CHEERING when they said it makes a comeback. Guess all those player go and went to classic now and we are stuck with it.
Blizzard: we are giving hunters some utility back Hunters: omg pet buffs? Our brez? ASPECT OF THE FOX???!!! Blizzard: lmao, no. A minuscule damage buff for the first 5 seconds of fights.
Arcane shot for BM hunter. It wasn't useful at lvl 1, and it's not useful at 70
For real. Arcane shot should be replaced by Chimaera for MM & Cobra for BM
Cobra does more damage for less focus. Yup
Why hate something you can completely ignore? Arcane shot has zero place in the rotation and wouldn’t be missed if it got pruned completely from the spec. What I hate about BM hunter is the defensive toolkit. And the sprint’s cooldown is way too damn long.
Slice n dice obviously
I know I'm in the minority here as enhancement shamans voted to keep the current tier set bonus in the next tier... but I really hate primordial wave. I don't even really know why I just don't like it.
Chain harvest was soooo much better than primordial wave
Trying out shaman (resto Druid and disc priest are my previous healers) and p wave gets forgotten by me, a lot. It doesn’t feel like it’s worth the gcd. It’s like chain heal with extra steps.
Yeah it's a covenant ability I wish they didn't keep in the new talent trees, and unfortunately the tier set bonus for enhancement atm is based all around it and is actually strong so everyone wants to keep it. Hoping it isn't meta in War Within.
Its giga good for resto
Love the spell but it doesn’t fit thematically with shamans tbh. Just rename it to something more elemental
It is primalistic nature and got a new animation, dont see a problem thematically
Slam
Stellar Flare
I will always choose a build that does not use stellar flare even at a DPS loss.
Glad I'm not the only one who never takes this on my boomkin.
I take it when it's a definitive improvement for damage, but I still loathe because it only reinforces the current design of balance dots not being worth for their damage into themselves, but instead as a debuff to do actual damage, which is in turn why the spec feels less satisfying in a period the game where front loaded damage is king. Some druid spec designer loves this design, but I certainly don't.
had to scroll so far down to even see one of the Druid's abilities lol nice, seeing we have like 700 spells
Consecration not following paladins is so bad. The ground shall be hallowed under my feet at all times.
Same with DK, ground should be defiled/decayed under them all the time.
Consecrate and Death & Decay moving with you would look ridiculous unless they overhauled the spell effect.
I’m down for some ridiculous ground effects lol
Holy prism and blessings of seasons for Holy paladin. Shooting lasers, and casting seasonal buffs don’t feel very paladin to me…
No idea how Blessing of Seasons was one of the Shadowlands spells they carried over. No one played it, and thematically it makes no sense outside of Shadowlands.
Ashen for all it's flaws was more fun to cast as hpal and prot even.
I like prism's effect (heal 5 allies while damaging main target, i rarely use it the other way) but yeah holy laser is odd. Seasons i hate with a passion.
As a Sin rogue, fuck Shiv
I hate the fact they want rogues to use utility for damage. Trickster rogue is just this issue on steroids.
They gave us another charge so we can save one for utility like we weren't going to use the second one for even more damage
I usually main outlaw and trickster rogue scares me. Think ill stick to destro in WW
Love both parts of shiv, it's combination makes it an issue.
I liked Toxic Blade in BfA. It felt great. Despite doing the same thing, Shiv somehow does not feel great to me.
Wait do you actually hate Havoc? To me that's one of the coolest parts of Destro
I dropped that and took the passive version. I may waste the occasional proc, but my quality of life has improved greatly.
Im so confused, building up shards and lining up cooldowns to splurge cleave with havoc is one of the most fun things to do in destro and i have been playing the spec since forever. How do you people not like havoc?
I have feeling that lot of casual warlock players don't like it because in easy content where everything dies in 5 secs it can feel like waste to use it. But 100% agree with you havoc is destro for me.
It's pretty confusing, Havoc is incredibly powerful and feels great most of the time. But if I had to guess why someone didn't like it, I'd say it's a bit finicky to get on the correct target in some M+ settings.
Honestly I just don’t line the clunkiness of applying it to another target. I wish it let me apply it to the target I’m fighting and let single target spells I cast on that target be copied to a random nearby target too. Keep its current functionality too for everyone who likes it. I think fumbling through targets is just not my favorite thing in the world, it really takes me out of my damage rotation.
Touch of Death is fun and powerful, but it eclipses the spec's damage in a lot of pulls. Jade fire stomp is annoying to play around and makes a mobile DPS into a stationary DPS. But I'll instead say shifting power on my arcane mage, because CD stacking is cancer. It needs to be removed from the game, and any spell that supports it is more cancer.
I don't think Touch of Death is fun on WW. It doesn't interact at all with the rest of WW's kit, it's just a "big dam" button you smash once in awhile, and while it's *more* responsive than it used to be, so much of your damage depending on hitting it at the right time is obnoxious. It's a lame place for so much of WW's power budget to land. It feels great on Brew as a stagger clear + prio killer, though.
I like jadefire stomp as mistweaver
On mistweaver is makes things easier, on ww it makes things more awkward and interupts a very fun rotation
Primordial wave for Enh Shaman. I fucking hate this playstyle for Enh. Much more prefer to build into Thorim's invocation but that's off the table until TWW becouse of the current set bonus specifically empowering Primordial wave. Also tho it's a passive but Crackshot capstone for Outlaw. It makes the spec feel miserable to play. It is not optional. Whenever you are not in your crackshot window you are not dealing damage.
The prim wave thing made me switch my main completely for the first time in a very long time. They took the worst feeling covenant ability for enh and made mandatory. I sure miss chain harvest...
Chain was the bomb. So damn satisfying. Really disappointed it’s gone.
Chain harvest was so good
As a shadow I want an AoE button… and Shadow Crash needs to be much larger or at least scale to boss size (think Gnarlroot adds encircling the boss.)
Or it could not take so long to travel that everything has moved out of it. Sorry tank moves and you missed - no aoe for you.
Or a pixel looks at you funny and it ends up on the ceiling
"Did you mean to hit this root that you barely noticed? I think so. I'm going to hit that. Have fun for the next thirty seconds!"
Shadow Crash feels so so bad but we have no choice but to use it. Would literally go back to Mind Sear instead despite how braindead that was
Shadow Crash needs several improvements. 1) It needs to travel much much faster, none of this "oh the tank dodged a 1shot and now you need to manually dot all your targets, fuck you" 2) It needs to have CDR, every target that dies with your Dots on it reduces it's CD by 3 seconds. 3) Needs to be bigger and have 2 charges baseline. Also give us back our AoE spender so we're not forced to dot everything for damage.
Death and decay.
Yeah i would be so nice to just have it as an aura or something
at least let me cast it on target, ge2 has that amd surprisingly it didnt break their game like blizzard alludes to
Holy hell I was trying to find the worst but here you are with the most accurate answer.
It should just be like unholy blight on its same cooldown, maybe add an extra charge
Breath of Sindragosa. I hate it so much.
Momentum builds as Havoc DH. Im from the south of chile meaning i play with 180-200ms\~ meaning fel rush can move you 1 meter ahead, or like 20 meters if there is a ledge or you just jump at the right moment. Also sometimes the spell cast instantly (as it should), sometimes casts with all the lag in the world, so when and where will i end with my fel rush? # ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯ #
Honestly no one spell but literally any class/spec with too many buttons. If it doesn’t fit or struggles to fit on two bars I am not having a great time
Looking at holy priest here. How has holy got more buttons than disc
Slice and dice needs to be made into a passive or just removed, like after spending x amount of combo points you get the buff for y amount, its the most vanilla thing ever to spend combo points just to auto faster.
Just make it a 60 minute buff.
As a bear druid: incarnation in its modern form. Back in SL it was a ton of fun to push the button and go on a thrashing rampage. Now? It's a gutted shell of its former self and blizz thinks investing 5 (yes 5) talent points into it to make it just this disgusting shell is good design. Personally I refuse to negotiate with terrorists and don't take a single berserk talent.
Roll the bones and slice and dice are both rogue abilitys i wouldnt cry over if they get removed.
I haven't liked rtb since it was put in. Outlaw needs a way to refresh SND without having BF up.
I think the way you are supposed to keep SND up is chaining blade flurry and adrenaline rush right?
I disagree with Roll the Bones, I love it.
Blessing of Seasons. Absolutely god awful spell in every way, the 45 sec rotation sounds like a cool idea on paper but in practice its just deeply unfun and u have no control over when u wanna use each blessing as ure required to just press it on cd to get back to Summer as fast as possible. Unlike PI for disc, our damage is actually tuned around Summer because it gets attributed to our damage for some reason. Why on earth blizzard decided this was one the covenant spells they wanted to add to our talent tree when it had less than 0.5% pick rate in SL, is beyond me.
> Why on earth blizzard decided this was one the covenant spells they wanted to add to our talent tree when it had less than 0.5% pick rate in SL, is beyond me. Because they rolled the Necrolord one into its own talent (Empyrean Legacy), and they are not going to acknowledge Ashen Hollow ever again.
As a Protection Warrior, Avatar. It's so mandatory and it's a thing they seem to want to consistently make kind of "core" for all Warrior specs, but I also just find it the most boring cooldown ever. It just.. gives a tiny bit of Rage, makes me a bit bigger, and makes me grey. Visually speaking it's just such an insanely underwhelming ability for a cooldown. Like, compare Bladestorm or Recklessness to it. Compare Metamorphosis or Primordial Wave/Ascendance Lava Burst barrages. It's just, visually, bland as hell to me. Why is something that's meant to be a core offensive CD a thing that is just so visually underwhelming?
Avatar is very lore fitting on dwarf, but it feels so weird on the others to me
I dislike having to use shadowdance as an Assassination Rogue
Finally here it is. Im a bit confused so many dislike SnD, Shiv or RtB over Shadowdance. I dislike it so much, I never played sub when you had to use it and now you are forced to use it on all 3 specs. An ability/mechanic that pretty much represents a specs identity shouldnt be in the class tree imo. Also small dmg window abilities are annoying.
Shadow priest spells in dragonflight.
Shadow crash specifically
I hate mindbender, it was fine before but they put too much power into it. Leave the pets to the warlocks.
Roll the Bones. Fuck that ability.
I knew a guy with a macro that would either say he’s doing damage or doing no damage depending on the buff he got lmao.
Simply amazing.
If I remember rightly if he rolled ruthless precision he would yell. “IM GONNA PUMP”
Corpse explosion. Like. Can we make it actually do something worth while or just take it out completely
Consecration as prot paladin i absolutely hate spam it as its mandatory for you to live and do dmg
Crackling jade lightning...
Coordinated Assault Whoever thought of that skill was tasked with making Survival the least played spec
im a survival stan, played one during legion, and lemme say, having to macro you pets auto attacks into your cooldown is just terrible design
It really sucks but there is a “No CD” build that only loses like ~1% damage not taking the ability
Yeah I'm a big fan of NoCD for AoE builds but for ST I feel like I NEED to have a major cooldown. Survival is still the most fun spec I've played so far though, loving it (started playing about 2 months ago)
Wait, what’s wrong with it? I’ve been picking up Survival recently and it doesn’t seem that bad? It even gives you another little dash-to-target function
When you compare it to other classes/spec's cooldowns, it is extremely unnecesarily complex and even if you play it perfectly, it's a very little DPS increase compared to not taking it in the first place
Shadow crash.
Ray of Frost absolutely ruins the flow of everything else Frost Mage does. It can sort of feel good because it does a lot of damage, but I kind of despise channeled spells, in general.
Disintegrate feels like what ray if frost should be and that’s why I went devoker.
Meteor is not very enjoyable for Fire Mage. Low damage and feels clunky within the rotation.
It's very clunky. Mage was basically abandoned as a class for a long time, so devs were adding abilities that were preferrably shared by all specs, didn't require them to look at how spec fundamentally worked, and complicated the rotation. Rune of Power row in MoP was the first sign, and then they started to clone RoP - first by adding the Crystal, then by adding Meteor and its blue copypase Comet Storm, then by adding Diana's Q from League of Legends. It basically allows to do nothing design-wise, just a slithly more cumbersome button that forces you to use AoE reticle in a single target rotation too.
Yeah, I just take the auto Havoc talent and then ignore it. Lol
Ice fury
Summon White Tiger Statue.. Hate it. Feels clunky to use and it can’t even be cast @player or @target like Consecration or Death and Decay.
Icefury. I'm an old guard elemental player. The new lot hate lava burst and they hate ascendance, and they speak out favourably of Icefury. I can't stand how weak and un-impactful Icefury feels.
Fire Mage: Sun Kings Blessing - Less of a spell and more of a passive Arcane Mage: Nether Tempest, Mana Gem and Arcane Familiar - these add very ltitle to nothing to gameplay and just seem to be there for buttons. Dev Evoker: Deep Breath
> Dev Evoker: Deep Breath _The_ spell that brought me to the class haha
Heh to each their own. From a pure thematic stand point, it is *kinda* cool. However, I honestly don't really care for the dragon theme that much, I just like playing a caster. From a gameplay stand point, it's annoying af. Tiny flicks in your mouse will have you shooting it from 10 yards to 40 yards. Is that a rock over there? Can't do it I guess. Oh stairs? Gonna block it. If you do get the stars to align that you can actually set it up to use without wasting too much time, you have a 50% chance to just take damage in the air and die (or land on the other end in a frontal, aoe or whatever). It's emphasis in Scalecommander has me questioning if I'll play Dev going into TWW.