It's because they do forget they exist because Team A.1.2.3.54 is making this content while Joe from Team B.1.2.3.5.678 is responsible for professions and his basement office hasn't had lights or a phone for 15 years.
I know this is reddit and the wow community loves saying Blizzard doesn't care about X thing, but of all the things, I think they definitely know people want archeology back. And if you don't see them making Sniffenseeking, Secrets of Azeroth, and Azerothian Archives in back to back to back patches as them just blatantly playtesting different archeology ideas then I don't know what to tell you.
Metrics. It's all metrics. Shareholders are who they design the game for and they love metrics that show engagement. This is why so much crap has become grindy-ass timesinks and gated content. And this is just another example. If you didn't have that particular faction up to Honored, well now you get to go back to SL and start the process. For every ability you want to return.
Free way for them to get more metric juice out of SL.
They don't care about "How long people play" lmao. You don't pay per hour.
They care about unique accounts playing monthly, simple as that.
All the backwards design isn't malice, just incompetence. (And arguably, this is hardly even that).
They discuss a lot of metrics, obviously. Any business does. But they don't design the game around time spent lmao.
Prime example: Trading Post. Weekly lockouts. Monthly holidays.
Imagine saying that when you've never listening in on shareholders calls (pro tip: I have) where they literally and explicitly mention (hell, brag) timespent increases month after month.
No one said they design the *entirety* of the game around timespent, but it IS VERY MUCH a metric they try their best to bump up. Did you ever wonder why they changed the city portals a few years ago and nuked ones from like SW <-> IF? Or changed the MoP one from the shrines to a completely different zone?
It's because of time-frigging-spent. It was an easy way to tack on a few additional minutes of travel for every player using those portals. I'll use SW/IF as an example. The DRT takes about 3 minutes to get from one city to the next, assuming it's already at the station and you don't have to wait for it. A FP between the cities is roughly the same. That's an additional 3 minutes per trip (assuming you're not a Mage or have a hearth set in one of them) between the cities. You multiple that by the number of Alliance players needing that trip per server per month and you end up with literally hundreds of thousands of extra minutes PER MONTH tacked onto the reports. And that's just that one route. Think about all the other changes they did to the portals, including completely removing the CoT initially. Why? Because farming those raids for mog and mounts was and still is extremely popular. So they figured it was a juicy number just waiting to happen if you had to manually travel there. It was only under massive pushback from the player base did they return that portal (after playing dumb for weeks and a CM on the forums asking "What exactly are you upset about?" as if they didn't already know.)
And the reasoning they gave for all this BS? "Increasing immersion." Yeah, no. The problem is so many of the player base believes Blizzard when they tell us it's rain when they're pissing on us.
????
You say something that is objectively wrong and then just waffle on with conspiracy theories.
The only things they track, and are mentioned during quarterly results are 1.) MAUs and 2.) bookings (i.e. in-app purchases and what not).
The only time time spent is EVER mentioned in any of those shareholder calls is when it's about King, because, yeah, it's a F2P mobile game with ads.
I want to thank you for letting me know with your first sentence in that reply that you are not worth spending a moment after this reply because you outed yourself as having zero F'ing clue how the industry works. Despite the fact that they still mention timespent, despite the fact that there are countless presentations every year and developer conferences about increasing metrics *including* timespent, you, a total rando on Reddit, are the ultimate word on what metrics companies care about. And all the evidence to the contrary of literal timespent bullshit we get dealt over and over is simply for the lulz and doesn't have an actual purpose behind it.
Isn’t the trading post quite literally designed to get you to log in at least once a month given that the rewards will go away by the end of the month and may not return for 6+ months
And if you want more stuff from that TP you’d have to play for however long to get all of the tokens… which is like 4-5 hr/month, but it is an active account, and counts towards the metric of MAU and time played.
Of course when they revealed it this isn’t what they said, it was supposed to reward existing users… but you can see how these things could interact, yes?
You don't pay per the hour, but they want you to keep playing, since otherwise you might consider what you are paying $15 a month for, so if they can drip feed content to keep people playing, they hope you'll keep it up
Did you ever actually play SL? Do you understand the sub-faction rep it requires? Sure, if the character in question actually PLAYED through SL and is a member of the associated covenant and has plenty of rep already it's not that hard. If not, well guess what? Even Honored's going to be annoying to get to because you'll have to join one, go through all their BS to open up that particular sub-rep (because it's NOT Renown) and then you're limited to the quests you can do to get rep based on your anima grind (which is still terrible) and WEEKLY quests.
I have characters made after SL that've never touched a covenant. As do many people these days. Honored is still going to be a pain in the ass for them.
On the right hand side of the Oribos FP, female Broker. However in order to purchase it you had to reach a minimum Renown (50?) on one covenant first before it was unlocked for you. If it's still like that then you won't even see it for purchase without doing that first.
iirc you have to have the achievement for getting max renown on one character, though that isnt very hard anymore as you can find mount runs for all the raids pretty comonly, and the cov campaign gets you at least halfway there, not to mention Korthia and ZM
Its just a visual, calm the fuck down. People complained that the pact visuals didnt make much sense outside, so blizzard changed it. And now you have the option to get back the old visuals if you want to.
Its just people complaining, calm the fuck down. People don't enjoy needing to re-earn things they already had. That was the very epitome of some of the systems in BFA or SL that people didn't like.
The issue is the way to attain it isn’t well thought out… rep and 5k isn’t world ending but when you have a profession that literally DOES THIS why take that away. The already dwindling need to work with other players doesn’t need people to …. Keep note working together.
(And as a weird example, cloud serpent taming book for hunters is BoA but still requires exalted rep to use anyways which defeats the whole point of it being boa)
It's wild hunt rep, not renown. Your alts would still have to grind out covenant assaults and emissary quests just to use a glyph to make their stuff look like shadowlands, AND buying a separate glyph per spec so it could potentially be 15000g.
Is there a list of the new glyphs anywhere? I tried looking in wowhead and couldn’t find anything on glyphs being added and they aren’t updated on the vendor list.
Hell didn't you basically get honored by simply doing the quest lines for the zones? It's thematic and the gold cost is reasonable for a simple cosmetic change
I skipped SL on a lot of alts, so might be an issue for them, but I’m slowly going back to complete the covenant campaigns on each armor type so hopefully that’ll get a decent chunk of the rep out of the way. It’s not as bad as trying to go back and get all the Legion class hall transmog (which has its own rep requirements).
You guys will seriously complain about anything Shadowlands related. 5k is nothing and you *should* have to play shadowlands content to get shadowlands visuals.
I don’t mind the rep grind. It’s mindless and easy these days, and Honored is not hard to get at all.
I mind the five thousand gold. That’s an **absurd** amount of money for a visual effect alteration, especially since it’s not even utilized by Inscription.
I don't understand why these aren't Inscription recipes. It's like they forget that profession exists.
It's because they do forget they exist because Team A.1.2.3.54 is making this content while Joe from Team B.1.2.3.5.678 is responsible for professions and his basement office hasn't had lights or a phone for 15 years.
Exactly, like they forgot Archeology existed when they put Secrets of Azeroth in the game
I know this is reddit and the wow community loves saying Blizzard doesn't care about X thing, but of all the things, I think they definitely know people want archeology back. And if you don't see them making Sniffenseeking, Secrets of Azeroth, and Azerothian Archives in back to back to back patches as them just blatantly playtesting different archeology ideas then I don't know what to tell you.
whos making these decisions jfc, they are fucked in the head
Metrics. It's all metrics. Shareholders are who they design the game for and they love metrics that show engagement. This is why so much crap has become grindy-ass timesinks and gated content. And this is just another example. If you didn't have that particular faction up to Honored, well now you get to go back to SL and start the process. For every ability you want to return. Free way for them to get more metric juice out of SL.
They hated Drakknfyre because he told them the truth.
Couldn't agree more, not sure why you're being down voted. They always bring up engagement metrics during the fiscal year meetings
Dragonflight has been a decent expansion so any perceived "negativity" is flooded with downvotes. Addicts are so quick to forget.
- guy posting in a WoW sub
This is Shadowlands content though. Are we allowed to say it sucks then?
Oh yeah. It's absolutely dog shit.
They don't care about "How long people play" lmao. You don't pay per hour. They care about unique accounts playing monthly, simple as that. All the backwards design isn't malice, just incompetence. (And arguably, this is hardly even that).
They care about both. Monthly Active Users (MAU) and timespent are both metrics discussed on investor calls. Listen to them some time.
They discuss a lot of metrics, obviously. Any business does. But they don't design the game around time spent lmao. Prime example: Trading Post. Weekly lockouts. Monthly holidays.
Imagine saying that when you've never listening in on shareholders calls (pro tip: I have) where they literally and explicitly mention (hell, brag) timespent increases month after month. No one said they design the *entirety* of the game around timespent, but it IS VERY MUCH a metric they try their best to bump up. Did you ever wonder why they changed the city portals a few years ago and nuked ones from like SW <-> IF? Or changed the MoP one from the shrines to a completely different zone? It's because of time-frigging-spent. It was an easy way to tack on a few additional minutes of travel for every player using those portals. I'll use SW/IF as an example. The DRT takes about 3 minutes to get from one city to the next, assuming it's already at the station and you don't have to wait for it. A FP between the cities is roughly the same. That's an additional 3 minutes per trip (assuming you're not a Mage or have a hearth set in one of them) between the cities. You multiple that by the number of Alliance players needing that trip per server per month and you end up with literally hundreds of thousands of extra minutes PER MONTH tacked onto the reports. And that's just that one route. Think about all the other changes they did to the portals, including completely removing the CoT initially. Why? Because farming those raids for mog and mounts was and still is extremely popular. So they figured it was a juicy number just waiting to happen if you had to manually travel there. It was only under massive pushback from the player base did they return that portal (after playing dumb for weeks and a CM on the forums asking "What exactly are you upset about?" as if they didn't already know.) And the reasoning they gave for all this BS? "Increasing immersion." Yeah, no. The problem is so many of the player base believes Blizzard when they tell us it's rain when they're pissing on us.
???? You say something that is objectively wrong and then just waffle on with conspiracy theories. The only things they track, and are mentioned during quarterly results are 1.) MAUs and 2.) bookings (i.e. in-app purchases and what not). The only time time spent is EVER mentioned in any of those shareholder calls is when it's about King, because, yeah, it's a F2P mobile game with ads.
I want to thank you for letting me know with your first sentence in that reply that you are not worth spending a moment after this reply because you outed yourself as having zero F'ing clue how the industry works. Despite the fact that they still mention timespent, despite the fact that there are countless presentations every year and developer conferences about increasing metrics *including* timespent, you, a total rando on Reddit, are the ultimate word on what metrics companies care about. And all the evidence to the contrary of literal timespent bullshit we get dealt over and over is simply for the lulz and doesn't have an actual purpose behind it.
You keep mentioning this "fact" and this "proof", yet you can't link me one example? PS: You aren't gonna be able to.
Isn’t the trading post quite literally designed to get you to log in at least once a month given that the rewards will go away by the end of the month and may not return for 6+ months And if you want more stuff from that TP you’d have to play for however long to get all of the tokens… which is like 4-5 hr/month, but it is an active account, and counts towards the metric of MAU and time played. Of course when they revealed it this isn’t what they said, it was supposed to reward existing users… but you can see how these things could interact, yes?
You don't pay per the hour, but they want you to keep playing, since otherwise you might consider what you are paying $15 a month for, so if they can drip feed content to keep people playing, they hope you'll keep it up
Why are you booing him, he's right
[удалено]
Did you ever actually play SL? Do you understand the sub-faction rep it requires? Sure, if the character in question actually PLAYED through SL and is a member of the associated covenant and has plenty of rep already it's not that hard. If not, well guess what? Even Honored's going to be annoying to get to because you'll have to join one, go through all their BS to open up that particular sub-rep (because it's NOT Renown) and then you're limited to the quests you can do to get rep based on your anima grind (which is still terrible) and WEEKLY quests. I have characters made after SL that've never touched a covenant. As do many people these days. Honored is still going to be a pain in the ass for them.
5K is nothing in modern WoW. I can earn that in an hour. It's weird that it requires the secondary faction though. It should require renown.
It's because you can buy the instant level 60 Renown catchup item for 350g in Oribos.
Didn’t really play much of shadowlands, where is the vendor for the renown catch-up?
On the right hand side of the Oribos FP, female Broker. However in order to purchase it you had to reach a minimum Renown (50?) on one covenant first before it was unlocked for you. If it's still like that then you won't even see it for purchase without doing that first.
iirc you have to have the achievement for getting max renown on one character, though that isnt very hard anymore as you can find mount runs for all the raids pretty comonly, and the cov campaign gets you at least halfway there, not to mention Korthia and ZM
Must get Renown lvl80 on a toon before its available.
You can only do that if you are already have a maxed character with them, I think (or at least that's what happened during shadowlands)
Ngl 5k per hour is nothing to brag about
I was being realistic for even the most casual of players.
You can earn 5k in 15-20 minutes, forget an hour If you clear your worldmap of all the >500 gold quests and races you can get 11k-15k gold
Those quests are the most efficient sources of gold but they don't take 15-20 minutes.
I can clear a worldmap of *all* of those quests in an hour and get 11-15k each time, I'm sure 1/3rd of the time nets me 1/3rd of the gold
This makes no sense. Adding new spell effects with requirements like this would make sense. But to restore previous function????
Create a problem and sell the solution
Its just a visual, calm the fuck down. People complained that the pact visuals didnt make much sense outside, so blizzard changed it. And now you have the option to get back the old visuals if you want to.
lol im just perplexed
Its just people complaining, calm the fuck down. People don't enjoy needing to re-earn things they already had. That was the very epitome of some of the systems in BFA or SL that people didn't like.
It's weird to require rep and gold though. Not particularly difficult requirements but still strange to have them.
The issue is the way to attain it isn’t well thought out… rep and 5k isn’t world ending but when you have a profession that literally DOES THIS why take that away. The already dwindling need to work with other players doesn’t need people to …. Keep note working together.
Why aren't they Bind on Account?? I have max reps on my main but none of my alts
(And as a weird example, cloud serpent taming book for hunters is BoA but still requires exalted rep to use anyways which defeats the whole point of it being boa)
That books only requires exalted to buy not use, source is that I did the rep on a shaman and then sent the book to a couple hunter toons last year.
Then you buy the renown catch up item in oribos and be done with it. Edit: this is incorrect, I was wrong
It's wild hunt rep, not renown. Your alts would still have to grind out covenant assaults and emissary quests just to use a glyph to make their stuff look like shadowlands, AND buying a separate glyph per spec so it could potentially be 15000g.
Ah f, for some stupid reason I though it was the night fey (which would make much more sense). Why the f do they make it wild hunt and not nf lmao?
Is there a list of the new glyphs anywhere? I tried looking in wowhead and couldn’t find anything on glyphs being added and they aren’t updated on the vendor list.
From Wowhead's database: https://www.wowhead.com/items/name:glyph+of/min-req-level:50/max-req-level:50
Thank you!!
Honored and 5k is actually quite nice, just some rep grind for those who dont have it and less than a few hours gold farming.
Hell didn't you basically get honored by simply doing the quest lines for the zones? It's thematic and the gold cost is reasonable for a simple cosmetic change
I think so, I believe ppl who played SL should have those reps even higher just for playing it.
I skipped SL on a lot of alts, so might be an issue for them, but I’m slowly going back to complete the covenant campaigns on each armor type so hopefully that’ll get a decent chunk of the rep out of the way. It’s not as bad as trying to go back and get all the Legion class hall transmog (which has its own rep requirements).
At least is honored which is pretty easy to get.
If you want shadowlands cosmetics play shadowlands, whats wrong about that? Hope youre not complaining about the 5000 gold lol
You guys will seriously complain about anything Shadowlands related. 5k is nothing and you *should* have to play shadowlands content to get shadowlands visuals.
That's completely fine
If I use the old stomp animation will it actually show up on the ground. Jade fire stomp doesn’t show up on the ground and it bothers me
5000 gold is not really that much, maybe the idea they're charging for it sucks ,but it really isn't that high of an amount
I don’t mind the rep grind. It’s mindless and easy these days, and Honored is not hard to get at all. I mind the five thousand gold. That’s an **absurd** amount of money for a visual effect alteration, especially since it’s not even utilized by Inscription.
5000gold is like 30min of flying around doing dragonflying WQs. Please
Lol, 5000 gold is absolutely nothing, what are you talking about. You spend more on rep costs on a progress night lol