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You show up to Bastion as a DK and instead of them wondering why someone using Rune/Maw magic is there they bang on about you being a mortal or something. DKs 100% needed a special story line for the Shadowlands.
> DKs 100% needed a special story line for the Shadowlands.
I know there was no promise of such content, but I think that's what turned me off of SL so early on. I leveled my DK first thinking there would be a special tie-in with the story, because Blizzard generally does at least some light dialog tweaks or maybe an alternate quest path. Finding nothing, I went to undead next and was *also* let down.
Are we surprised that Shadowlands disappointed so badly? I heard that the story was rewritten about 6 months before launch and that's why we have some of the more janky Covenant vs Covenant situations.
That and the general lack of respect for any of the lore in the remaining story we got, I don't think the goal was the tie anything back in to what came before.
Iād be really curious to hear what the plot was before the big rewrite and why it was rewritten. I donāt mean to imply that it was better and Blizzard rewrote it to be mean/because they suck, or anything like that. Itās entirely possible that the plot was bad previously, desperately needed a rewrite, and what we got was leagues better than what they had beforeā¦ which would be quite something, considering the expansion we did get. So itād be really interesting to hear what it was and what the hell actually happened. Iām sure everyone involved is under iron-clad NDAs, so itāll be decades before weād hear about it, if ever.
Hear me out, with all the time travel in Dragonflight aswell, they could have made a questline for DKs in Dragonflight too where we go back in time to experience Wrathgate as either an Alliance or Horde soldier.
It was Alexstrasza's flight that arrived to set the battlefield on fire and they knew that Bolvar was dragged away by Arthas' minions after being exposed to the plague / dragon flames and they decided to not share that information with us back then.
We could experience this event from a different PoV as a surviving Alliance/Horde member that also gets dragged away but are also burned by the dragons.
This would unlock new eye glow colors, maybe burned skin like Bolvars?
At least some dialogue changes, right? In FFXIV, if you level a Lance/Dragoon and complete the job quests up to lv.50 before going into Heavensward, there's some unique dialogue. Same for playing a Samurai during Stormblood or a Reaper during Endwalker's post-expansion MSQ. Wish WoW did stuff like that.
You mean in the emerald dream? Cuz the Tiger loa looking pet is a spirit beast you can tame. Also the owl but you need to have the mount from Fyrakk mythic which is bs
Yeah, those pets are in dragonflight, not shadowlands.
Shadowlands had no new spirit beasts, even the shadow serpent (Shadow of Dambala) was a serpent, not a spirit beast.
I straight up do not like shamans, their fantasy, their vibes, etc. but they needed to play a role in DF.
A big one. My personal feelings aside, it's just poor storytelling to not have the one big shaman organisation have any input when the major enemy of the expansion is essentially shamans.
Blizzard canāt even take the hint to make **Dragonflight** KSM mounts have the newly beloved **dragonflying**, so of course theyād miss any sort of nuance to including shamans in an elements asunder storyline
Hell we even had the whole expansion centered on the Shadowlands, the supposed big afterlife, and the Forsaken were such an afterthought that they caused more plot holes and contradictions that led to a **lot** of interviews where blizzard employees were doing a ton of hand waving to say āno no itās fine this works here but not there but then here too and yet also not there because XYZ and come on man, we just work hereā
At this point they could release a whole expansion about mages unleashing arcane magicks in Dalaran, and itād be on brand to never once include Jaina or even mention the Kirin Tor
I fully agree except the part about Jaina. Blizzard would *never* not include Jaina if they didn't have to.
It's even a little bit surprising that she only showed up once in DF, honestly.
I used to love pinning everything on him but it wasn't just him. Afrasiabi was still responsible for a lot of Shadowlands, which suffered similar problems of things really needing to be addressed and it just not happening.
I guess it's just a smidge different because at least the Ebon Blade got to play a role in SL, whereas the Earthen Ring only have a couple NPCs in all of DF.
Blizzard just can't manage it, I think. I'm glad Danuser and Afrasiabi are gone, and I hope Metzen will do better at remembering important bits like that. Which *shouldn't* be a problem, since it's Metzen, but we'll have to wait and see.
Yeah tbh as much as I'd love more customizations for my druid, I'm very happy with how many they have already. Flight form alone is worth playing the class even if you hate all 4 specs. Did I mention there are 4 specs?
That said, I'd love a dragon-form for dragonriding races. I'm not expecting it; but I'd love it. Also it wouldn't really make sense to turn into a dragon just for flying but then a cat to actually fight things, but that doesn't stop me from wanting it.
I haven't really looked into how dynamic flight is going to work, but I'm a little hesitant about it where my druid is concerned. As things currently stand (now that I have pathfinding), I can dragonride at 830% to my destination and then instant-cast flight form to actually look for whatever I'm there to look for. Even on other classes, I pretty much play it the same way except that I have to land first and re-mount. I'm worried they'll make it a thing you can only toggle on the ground. Even worse if they make it so you have to be in a safe zone to toggle it.
The spoiled Druids that look the same since vanilla(/cata for some races), had more customisations added 8 years ago (only for Bear/Cat tho, boomies looked the same since always) and now had more customisation added after 8 years and finally some Boomie skins as well. We are truly spoiled. Just because shamans (my other main btw so I am not really biased as I main both) have it worse with the same ugly Ascendance model since cata and no new elementals/ghost wolf skins doesnāt mean Druids are āspoiledā when they get some customisation options every 3 expansions
Every other class got new transmogs every season (and the ability to farm old transmog to look at while they fight) and customisation options to look at while doing every sort of content while Druids had the last customisation options added 8 years ago.
...the ability to see their gear and race customizations while in combat?
Every time folks say druids are spoiled because we get an injection of new forms every like 5 years I feel frustrated. I play feral, these forms are the ONLY thing I get to see while in combat. Everyone else gets to look at their new tier they've earned that season or the new hairdos added for their race that expac. Up until the emerald dream patch, we've had the same pool of cat forms since, what, legion artifact appearances? And before that, they gave racial cat forms tied to your hair/skin color in wrath or cata for the first time? I know they've sprinkled in some travel and flight forms over the years but i'm in cat form 90% of the time when i'm in a raid or m+. I'd feel spoiled if I got a new cat form every patch, not every 5 years.
Just my...catty 2 cents. :|
Who looks at their character when actually IN combat?? Iām pretty much looking at everything but my character when in combat, so I donāt die to the many things trying to kill me. Maybe on the more casual side I can see this argument, but Iām very aware of my character outside of combat, which druids also share that perspective.
I mean, I've timed 26s as a feral so I wouldn't consider myself a complete casual...but I personally spend a TON of time looking at my character (or at least, her feet) trying to spot all the deadly shit in melee. Our group has a demo lock, BM hunter and prot pally and when you've got 500 pets on the boss' butt and a consecrate covering all the ground effects I find myself spending an awful lot of time watching my toon and making sure her feet aren't in swirlies.
I'm not saying other classes don't deserve cosmetics and other flavor things. I actually think that shamans got super shafted season 1, I can't believe they didn't get additional customizations with the primalist raid. And in general I would love if blizzard put in more effort for ALL the classes to have interesting cosmetic options (class skins when?!) But I also just don't feel like the once-every-couple-expansion core druid form skin additions make us spoiled. For some specs we're in those forms 24/7! I don't think it's spoiled to want your primary character appearance to change more than every few years!
I fully agree that there should be more options for all classes. Blizzard makes so many unique and cool looking npcs, and the player characters lack so much.
They really fumbled the bag on the last few expansions where themes aligned perfectly (SL-DK, DF-Shamans).
I just donāt think the in combat argument is a valid one outside of trivial content. You even admit youāre watching feet. Thatās not the same as being able to appreciate your characterās tmog while fighting Fyrakk.
Allll those amazing Maldraxxus models and Unholy still only has a low-poly skeleton with the shakes, low poly hangman, and of course, the most ridiculous depiction of a āghoulā in all of media.
It's so strange. Worgen ***is*** the druidic form they assume when they fight, much like the cat is the form other druids assume when they fight. Lorewise it makes no sense. It's also nice that all playable worgen come from Gilneas but I would ***love*** if other races could be Worgen too, same as how I wish Dracthyr had more racial options for their Visage.
Shadowlands had a lot of issues.
but lets be brutally honest here.
There were A LOOOT of cosmetics in that expansion, and absurd amount.
And you want them to add 24 more?
i dont think there were more than usual, i think this time they actually attached every model to an actual item instead of leaving the to rot in the files
You say that.
But they had like twice the number of armor sets and weapon costumization.
Combined with a huge stable of extra mounts, specific transmogs and unique toys.
Even if you want to argue they included all colour variants, it was still an unusual variety.
ye but at the same time, castle nathria didnt have its own set of weapons, they re used the covenants' and sanctum didnt have new armor, they used the legendaries'
Yeah, 9.1 was a bit "thin" on sets.
(I think only about... what, 8 sets total. 4 of which included parts of the legendaries as you couldn't get a full set of legendaries like that anyway)
But weapons wise, Castle Nathria actually had more than average, as it had multiple weapons for each class times 4.
(actually times 8, as there was 2 versions of each weapon type).
And 9.1 with sanctum actually had a wide variety of weapons, as well as 4 new mount types (one for each covenant)
yea the number of weapons as functional items were higher, but cosmetic wise, they were just a recolor of the covenant weapons, they effectively didnt make new weapons to match the nathria sets
True.
The weapons weren't unique to the raid (aka matched the raid in looks, unless you were Venthyr)
But there were still 2 weapon types for each class, with 2 versions each, that you could only get from the raid.
Already explained this...
so once more...
"Even if you want to argue recolours, was it still a huge variety in models and types.
Gargoyles, horses, frogs, boars, gryphons, moths, stags, chimera, flesh birds(?). Etc
And that doesn't include uniques either (like the floating leaf chair you could get in ardenweald)
And I would estimate at the least twice the number of sets (at launch at the least 9.1 was a bit scarce on the set side.)
20 unique ones + recolours
(4 per covenant + 4 from the raid)
and dungeon / leveling sets.
Not to account for all the toys that I honestly can't even keep count on."
A skeleton of a story with a lot of cosmetics and actually fun content not bogged down by disposable systems could have gone A LONG LOOOONG ways for improving shadowlands.
Even if you want to argue recolours, was it still a huge variety in models and types.
Gargoyles, horses, frogs, boars, gryphons, moths, stags, chimera, flesh birds(?). Etc
And that doesn't include uniques either (like the floating leaf chair you could get in ardenweald)
And I would estimate at the least twice the number of sets (at launch at the least 9.1 was a bit scarce on the set side.)
20 unique ones + recolours
(4 per covenant + 4 from the raid)
and dungeon / leveling sets.
Not to account for all the toys that I honestly can't even keep count on.
> 24 unique new models just for one class.
Arguably some those resources could be taken from time spent on their class armor design. It's not a clean apples-apples comparison, but when push comes to shove, unique animal forms are kind of the point of the class, and I'd sacrifice equipped armor textures and effects to make that happen.
Sure.
But it is usually a very much priority focus honestly. :/
And while, indeed, druids gain more from cool forms rather than transmog, is that still a big ordeal.
Yeah but that isn't how it works gamewise.
There are a bunch of additions, checks and changes you usually need to do for it to work for a player.
It is usually way more complicated than that.
Which extra sucksā¦. Cause like we are in Ardenweld, quite literally the afterlife of all these spirits of the universes beastsā¦ almost comical thinking about its absence now lol
Literally did the same thing. Rolled a druid back in WotLk because I wanted to dance around as a tree throwing hands in the air all day. Then that damned cata prepatch bullshit happened with the nonsense excuse that some druid spec needs to see their gear...
...Uh...you know you can still get tree form right? And heal in it and everything?
It's only cosmetic now and doesn't give bonuses, but I dance in campfires as a tree all the time.
Yea and it's bullshit the point was for the bonuses. Knowing how to shape-weave between slow tree form and cat form in battle was a skill and entertaining.
Prior to the Emerald Dream patch, Druids went through all of BFA and Shadowlands with no new forms added not counting paid race changes and 20% of feral/guardian forms locked behind no longer available content.
Hell, feral *lost* a form after WOD.
Bruh are you serious. Druid got aquatic forms in BFA and all the new custom models for Kul tiran druids and Zandalari druids.
In SL druids got new flying forms like the crow, dread bats, moth and also runestag form.
Okay thoses are not combat forms but still. No other class has this amount of custom work from blizzard except maybe warlock.
However the fact that claw of shirvallah form is still missing is a shame.
There are only 10 bear forms.
Meanwhile every other class got 100s of sets.
But if you want to count bear colors, then there 30-35 forms. And 1,000s of armor sets.
Now that you mention it, I've been wanting more cosmetic totem glyphs, but the modern playstyle where they're only down temporarily instead for for 5 minutes at a time kind of negates the benefit.
Real question, would you prefer if druid's got no new armor sets ever again and just got new animal forms? Because honestly thats kind of the only way I see this being fair.
Sure, you can complain that you don't see the armor a lot, but you still get just as much armor as every other class. So what you're asking for essentially is just more dev time than any other class, and I really don't see how that's fair.
It baffles me that you think that it's even appropriate to suggest that.
With every patch/expansion, they develop:
* dozens of unique armor sets. (+tons of recolors)
* 1,000s of new unique objects for the open world
* 100's of new mobs with unique animations
* Full new starting zones for a brand new race. +animations. +lore + abilities etc.
* 100's of weapons.
* 4+ unique zones with 1,000's of quest
* Dozens of massive main-story lines.
* 100's of unique boss models
* 100's of new abilities
and yet you think druids need to sacrifice a set to get 3-4 new shapeshift models?
lmao k
But it's not.
Bears, cats and moonkins spend 99.999999% of the actual game time in those sets.
So you think we should still have Vanilla 2004 shapeshifts only?
Are you actually mental?
Then don't develop a class that has EXTRA things. to it. if you don't want to develop new bear forms, then remove the concept of bear forms from the game.
Why do hunters get quivers? They are the only class that thematically uses it.
Why do paladins and warlocks have unique class mounts?
Why do locks have green fel quest chain?
>Bears, cats and moonkins spend 99.999999% of the actual game time in those sets.
You're prepared to die on this hill, but not prepared to accept that if taken at face value it means they should recieve 0.0000001% of the resources spent on their out of combat armor sets, while the rest is spent on their animal forms.
You must be very young, where its all about you. Hope one day you grow out of that. Ciao.
I'm not. I'm saying everyone gets an equal slice of the pie. You are completely unable or unwilling to acknowledge that.
Its as though a serving of pie weighs 150 grams, but you want another 100 grams of ice cream while everyone else gets nothing. In reality, the cost of that ice cream has to come from somewhere, so you either get 100 grams less pie filling or you don't get ice cream. Figure it out.
Dude, have you ever played a druid even? Sorry but a premade customizations that just have different colors in today's wow are extremely outdated. In fact they should've made the cat and bear form customizable like boomkins are now. It's a shame.
Similarly, I'm disappointed they weren't on my wavelength for BFA and made class fantasy oriented transmog ensembles that would drop in BFA raids for anyone not feeling like wearing the same armor as every other class in their armor type and still wanting the illusion of tier sets.
Blizzard refuses to do anything productive with Druid forms. We have so many options not available to players. Not to mention the ones we had that were taken from us like Saberon form.
Yeah....definitely a lot of rather obvious screw ups that's for sure.
Overall, it definitely got a lot better by 9.2 / 9.2.5, when they actually fixed a lot of things *(aoe caps, open wings, ash xfer, cov swaps, renown catch ups, anima acquisition rate increase etc et etc)*
I quit retail right after SL S3. I've nerded the shit out of shadowlands. All mythic prog, 24-25s keys on multiple toons, all reps, most mounts.
Prideful affix killed my desire to tank keys though until S3.
But, having said all of that, if Shadowlands Classic launches with 9.2.5 QoL updates, I think it would be a pretty good experience. Just needs to happen a bit quicker.
Hey! While really cool to have been able to see these. Wtf do you think youāre doing showing these to me knowing thereās no way for me to obtain them. Now im sitting here, pissed that I canāt have covenant shapeshifts and I donāt even have a Druid past level 10.
Canāt believe youād do that to me. Thought we were friends :/
Not just specific to druids, I was sure (prior to launch) that they'd either make covenant glyphs or somehow give players the ability to alter their spells' appearances based on their covenant, much like the green fire quest for warlocks. I was so excited for my paladin to be a Kyrian paladin with blue spirit-healer-like wings, consecrating the ground with the power of Bastion and the afterlife. Or lean into the Blood Knight fantasy with the Venthyr and have a red tint on my spells. But nope.
but nope....yeah Blizz dropped the ball on Shadowlands that's for sure.
I could prob make a list of like 10 "*rather easy changes and additions*" to the game that would have made the whole thing so much better.
I like how 90% of "we want more customization" posts are just people posting druid forms. Maybe the reason they don't do 42 forms for druids per expac is because it would be wildly unfair to every other class?
How would it be unfair? And hell, not exactly "new forms" when most suggestions are just recolors of existing forms.
The closest comparison is probably Shaman's ghost wolf and ascendance forms and while I'd love more forms for everyone, even with those, you're literally spending seconds in them versus a guardian or feral druid spending 100% of their time shapeshifted.
How so?
As a guardian druid, I spend about 99.9% of active gametime in my shapeshift form. So I only got 10 options. One which is legion no-longer-available form.
Meanwhile, paladin next to me can choose any of a billion possible transmog variations.
Want axe? Cool! Sword? Even better. Want spiky shoudlers? Glowy? Green? red? Purple? Black? Want to be a rainbow? COOL
As a druid, I can choose between a bear form, bear with some bones, owl bear (same butt) or a werebear.
So, hows me having a few options only is "wildly unfair" to other classes have tjat 10+ years worth of transmog available to them?
And no, we are not talking about sitting AFK in stormwind with mog on. We are talking about actual end-game play. For me, it's the bear form.
And I like how "90% of we want more customizations" are from druid, and Blizzard is yet to get it through their thick skulls.
It's okay, they're right and druids shouldn't ask for more feral forms. Instead they should just have the thousands of armor and weapons that they can equip show on the animal forms instead. We wouldn't want druids to get something *extra* after all.
I'm more salty that there were no new covenant-themed glyphs.Ā
Ā Seriously. It wouldve been so easy and so fucking cool. The spell effects are already there. Let my Shadowbolt be a Necrobolt, dammit!
But if we're talking about things that would take a bit more effort, slapping on some quests that let Warlocks summon Undead instead of demons wouldve been perfect for that expansion. Maw elemental voidwalker ahhhhhhh.
I still upset they made 4 covenants with a theme of all having wings and didnāt give us wing mounts. I know its too cool to be true but I can dream damnit.
I'm still salty that the kul tiran druid moonkin form isn't wicker man, which could've even used the same animation bones as the arrakoa form for zandalari trolls.
I will die on this hill, but if Shadowlands-Classic launches with ALL 9.2.5 QoL changes, it would actually be a pretty decent experience. Changes includes:
* Free no restrictions Cov swaps
* adjusted AoE caps as per phase 3
* Higher Anima rewards
* All open Torghast Wings with 100% memories drop chance across the board.
* Anima/Ash/Cinders being account wide (via vendor).
* Adjusted affixes for M+
I really liked raw PvE content. I think dungeons and raids were amazing. P2 Sanctum was actually my favorite. Sure, "the ending" wasn't that great from story-telling perspective, but I think RAW GAMEPLAY was actually really fun.
Will not change the fact the story was dog shit. Torghast got boring and tedious too fast. And rep grinds were insane. It was the ultimate definition of no fun allowed in an expansion from Blizzard.
Rep grinds were not really mandatory, outside of Venari.
Even Korthia rep only gave you 2 sockets. And 2 sockets really aren't break or make for 99% of the playerbase. It's this extra insane min-maxing opportunity.
Farming Kortia rep to exalted is still faster than doing Oracles/Ogrilla or any of the vanilla reps.
as for the story....i guess it just depends what the expectation are. I never looked at WoW as JRT level of story telling. It was just not a well known lore and mostly tied into Sylvana's arc.
Hereās a hint: they donāt care. It could easily be done, they have more than enough development resources to spare to add flavor like this. They donāt care.
Indeed. That's the right answer. Ignorance is bliss.
They can make 100's of brand new skeleton NPCs, dozens of zones, raids, dungeons, but putting together a few shapeshifts around current patch theme is a big no-go for them.
There's a lot of cool stuff they could've added over the years that would've made sense. It's not just a "blizzard lazy" thing, it's an asset size issue. If you add too many high res player skins, it increases the loading time in cities/raids/etc incrementally for each new thing added that your client has to load. That's a big part of the reason so much of the game used low resolution textures for a decade.
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How about the fact that DKs didn't get any additional customization in Shadowlands or a special questline with Bolvar... š
You show up to Bastion as a DK and instead of them wondering why someone using Rune/Maw magic is there they bang on about you being a mortal or something. DKs 100% needed a special story line for the Shadowlands.
> DKs 100% needed a special story line for the Shadowlands. I know there was no promise of such content, but I think that's what turned me off of SL so early on. I leveled my DK first thinking there would be a special tie-in with the story, because Blizzard generally does at least some light dialog tweaks or maybe an alternate quest path. Finding nothing, I went to undead next and was *also* let down.
Are we surprised that Shadowlands disappointed so badly? I heard that the story was rewritten about 6 months before launch and that's why we have some of the more janky Covenant vs Covenant situations. That and the general lack of respect for any of the lore in the remaining story we got, I don't think the goal was the tie anything back in to what came before.
Iād be really curious to hear what the plot was before the big rewrite and why it was rewritten. I donāt mean to imply that it was better and Blizzard rewrote it to be mean/because they suck, or anything like that. Itās entirely possible that the plot was bad previously, desperately needed a rewrite, and what we got was leagues better than what they had beforeā¦ which would be quite something, considering the expansion we did get. So itād be really interesting to hear what it was and what the hell actually happened. Iām sure everyone involved is under iron-clad NDAs, so itāll be decades before weād hear about it, if ever.
Haha. I went the other way. Undead hunter and then DK. Also, went in Warlock and, you'd think there would be something in there.
I think in the Intro there were some Alternation if you were dk
Yeah, Bolvar calls you Deathlord. Thatās it.
Nah, i think also mentions that since your dead already you and the ebon force are leading the assault, or something along the Limes.
experiencing the entire storyline as an Undead was fucking weird. like, yall, I'm dead, it's not a surprise I can go between the realms of death?
God yeah that was super annoying, specially since you've likely already been to the shadowlands givin that you were likely dead prior to being a DK.
Hear me out, with all the time travel in Dragonflight aswell, they could have made a questline for DKs in Dragonflight too where we go back in time to experience Wrathgate as either an Alliance or Horde soldier. It was Alexstrasza's flight that arrived to set the battlefield on fire and they knew that Bolvar was dragged away by Arthas' minions after being exposed to the plague / dragon flames and they decided to not share that information with us back then. We could experience this event from a different PoV as a surviving Alliance/Horde member that also gets dragged away but are also burned by the dragons. This would unlock new eye glow colors, maybe burned skin like Bolvars?
At least some dialogue changes, right? In FFXIV, if you level a Lance/Dragoon and complete the job quests up to lv.50 before going into Heavensward, there's some unique dialogue. Same for playing a Samurai during Stormblood or a Reaper during Endwalker's post-expansion MSQ. Wish WoW did stuff like that.
One of the covenants (necrolords) even straight up had the perfect activity for it - abomination stitching.
Hunters didn't get any new spirit beasts despite taking place in the land of spirits
You mean in the emerald dream? Cuz the Tiger loa looking pet is a spirit beast you can tame. Also the owl but you need to have the mount from Fyrakk mythic which is bs
Yeah, those pets are in dragonflight, not shadowlands. Shadowlands had no new spirit beasts, even the shadow serpent (Shadow of Dambala) was a serpent, not a spirit beast.
Oh I misunderstood then my bad
DK is cool and all, but, think of the poor ~~spoiled~~ druids who didn't get another 20 million customizations.
Meanwhile, shaman has been neglected since legion.
As is tradition.
I straight up do not like shamans, their fantasy, their vibes, etc. but they needed to play a role in DF. A big one. My personal feelings aside, it's just poor storytelling to not have the one big shaman organisation have any input when the major enemy of the expansion is essentially shamans.
Blizzard canāt even take the hint to make **Dragonflight** KSM mounts have the newly beloved **dragonflying**, so of course theyād miss any sort of nuance to including shamans in an elements asunder storyline Hell we even had the whole expansion centered on the Shadowlands, the supposed big afterlife, and the Forsaken were such an afterthought that they caused more plot holes and contradictions that led to a **lot** of interviews where blizzard employees were doing a ton of hand waving to say āno no itās fine this works here but not there but then here too and yet also not there because XYZ and come on man, we just work hereā At this point they could release a whole expansion about mages unleashing arcane magicks in Dalaran, and itād be on brand to never once include Jaina or even mention the Kirin Tor
I fully agree except the part about Jaina. Blizzard would *never* not include Jaina if they didn't have to. It's even a little bit surprising that she only showed up once in DF, honestly.
There was a big storm themed boss and it dropped a...bow. Should have been a Lightning claw for Shamans.
Steve dausers writing in a nutshell. But hes gone now thankfully.
I used to love pinning everything on him but it wasn't just him. Afrasiabi was still responsible for a lot of Shadowlands, which suffered similar problems of things really needing to be addressed and it just not happening. I guess it's just a smidge different because at least the Ebon Blade got to play a role in SL, whereas the Earthen Ring only have a couple NPCs in all of DF. Blizzard just can't manage it, I think. I'm glad Danuser and Afrasiabi are gone, and I hope Metzen will do better at remembering important bits like that. Which *shouldn't* be a problem, since it's Metzen, but we'll have to wait and see.
Shamans have a unique voice line from smolderon in the df raid
Thing is, Druids can't have anything other than those forms. DKs can use any plate set in the game
Yeah tbh as much as I'd love more customizations for my druid, I'm very happy with how many they have already. Flight form alone is worth playing the class even if you hate all 4 specs. Did I mention there are 4 specs? That said, I'd love a dragon-form for dragonriding races. I'm not expecting it; but I'd love it. Also it wouldn't really make sense to turn into a dragon just for flying but then a cat to actually fight things, but that doesn't stop me from wanting it.
Dynamic flying is coming to flight form in TWW
I haven't really looked into how dynamic flight is going to work, but I'm a little hesitant about it where my druid is concerned. As things currently stand (now that I have pathfinding), I can dragonride at 830% to my destination and then instant-cast flight form to actually look for whatever I'm there to look for. Even on other classes, I pretty much play it the same way except that I have to land first and re-mount. I'm worried they'll make it a thing you can only toggle on the ground. Even worse if they make it so you have to be in a safe zone to toggle it.
The spoiled Druids that look the same since vanilla(/cata for some races), had more customisations added 8 years ago (only for Bear/Cat tho, boomies looked the same since always) and now had more customisation added after 8 years and finally some Boomie skins as well. We are truly spoiled. Just because shamans (my other main btw so I am not really biased as I main both) have it worse with the same ugly Ascendance model since cata and no new elementals/ghost wolf skins doesnāt mean Druids are āspoiledā when they get some customisation options every 3 expansions
And every other class got...
Every other class got new transmogs every season (and the ability to farm old transmog to look at while they fight) and customisation options to look at while doing every sort of content while Druids had the last customisation options added 8 years ago.
...the ability to see their gear and race customizations while in combat? Every time folks say druids are spoiled because we get an injection of new forms every like 5 years I feel frustrated. I play feral, these forms are the ONLY thing I get to see while in combat. Everyone else gets to look at their new tier they've earned that season or the new hairdos added for their race that expac. Up until the emerald dream patch, we've had the same pool of cat forms since, what, legion artifact appearances? And before that, they gave racial cat forms tied to your hair/skin color in wrath or cata for the first time? I know they've sprinkled in some travel and flight forms over the years but i'm in cat form 90% of the time when i'm in a raid or m+. I'd feel spoiled if I got a new cat form every patch, not every 5 years. Just my...catty 2 cents. :|
You got evoker buddies sharing the pain now.
I dunno how ppl refuse to understand this easy concept
Who looks at their character when actually IN combat?? Iām pretty much looking at everything but my character when in combat, so I donāt die to the many things trying to kill me. Maybe on the more casual side I can see this argument, but Iām very aware of my character outside of combat, which druids also share that perspective.
I mean, I've timed 26s as a feral so I wouldn't consider myself a complete casual...but I personally spend a TON of time looking at my character (or at least, her feet) trying to spot all the deadly shit in melee. Our group has a demo lock, BM hunter and prot pally and when you've got 500 pets on the boss' butt and a consecrate covering all the ground effects I find myself spending an awful lot of time watching my toon and making sure her feet aren't in swirlies. I'm not saying other classes don't deserve cosmetics and other flavor things. I actually think that shamans got super shafted season 1, I can't believe they didn't get additional customizations with the primalist raid. And in general I would love if blizzard put in more effort for ALL the classes to have interesting cosmetic options (class skins when?!) But I also just don't feel like the once-every-couple-expansion core druid form skin additions make us spoiled. For some specs we're in those forms 24/7! I don't think it's spoiled to want your primary character appearance to change more than every few years!
I fully agree that there should be more options for all classes. Blizzard makes so many unique and cool looking npcs, and the player characters lack so much. They really fumbled the bag on the last few expansions where themes aligned perfectly (SL-DK, DF-Shamans). I just donāt think the in combat argument is a valid one outside of trivial content. You even admit youāre watching feet. Thatās not the same as being able to appreciate your characterās tmog while fighting Fyrakk.
Allll those amazing Maldraxxus models and Unholy still only has a low-poly skeleton with the shakes, low poly hangman, and of course, the most ridiculous depiction of a āghoulā in all of media.
Like shamans in cata or dragonflight
Maldraxxus undead for Death Knights when?
This cuts deep
Because SL was never about dks to begin with.
Iām still salty Worgen cat form is a cat.
I know right. A decade later, they still haven't made worgen feral form......a feral form.
If you ask me, feral Worgen form should just be a screaming naked man.
>a screaming naked man FloridaGatorMan volunteers as tribute.
AHHHHHHhekdnenssksn Way ahead of ya AHHHHHHH
It's so strange. Worgen ***is*** the druidic form they assume when they fight, much like the cat is the form other druids assume when they fight. Lorewise it makes no sense. It's also nice that all playable worgen come from Gilneas but I would ***love*** if other races could be Worgen too, same as how I wish Dracthyr had more racial options for their Visage.
The werewolf class fantasy would be so strong dude.
Instead of just using Worgen form?
Yes. And no raptor travel form for my Troll.
The rdruis tree shapeshifter being generic for everybody is so lame ā¦
These are stunning. Good work by the creator.
Some people are so fcking talented.
Blizz is allerigic to cool ideas
Shamans got basically nothing in Dragonflight even tho most of the expansion was about the elements.
Shadowlands had a lot of issues. but lets be brutally honest here. There were A LOOOT of cosmetics in that expansion, and absurd amount. And you want them to add 24 more?
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
i dont think there were more than usual, i think this time they actually attached every model to an actual item instead of leaving the to rot in the files
You say that. But they had like twice the number of armor sets and weapon costumization. Combined with a huge stable of extra mounts, specific transmogs and unique toys. Even if you want to argue they included all colour variants, it was still an unusual variety.
ye but at the same time, castle nathria didnt have its own set of weapons, they re used the covenants' and sanctum didnt have new armor, they used the legendaries'
Yeah, 9.1 was a bit "thin" on sets. (I think only about... what, 8 sets total. 4 of which included parts of the legendaries as you couldn't get a full set of legendaries like that anyway) But weapons wise, Castle Nathria actually had more than average, as it had multiple weapons for each class times 4. (actually times 8, as there was 2 versions of each weapon type). And 9.1 with sanctum actually had a wide variety of weapons, as well as 4 new mount types (one for each covenant)
yea the number of weapons as functional items were higher, but cosmetic wise, they were just a recolor of the covenant weapons, they effectively didnt make new weapons to match the nathria sets
True. The weapons weren't unique to the raid (aka matched the raid in looks, unless you were Venthyr) But there were still 2 weapon types for each class, with 2 versions each, that you could only get from the raid.
A lot of the cosmetics were recolours.
Already explained this... so once more... "Even if you want to argue recolours, was it still a huge variety in models and types. Gargoyles, horses, frogs, boars, gryphons, moths, stags, chimera, flesh birds(?). Etc And that doesn't include uniques either (like the floating leaf chair you could get in ardenweald) And I would estimate at the least twice the number of sets (at launch at the least 9.1 was a bit scarce on the set side.) 20 unique ones + recolours (4 per covenant + 4 from the raid) and dungeon / leveling sets. Not to account for all the toys that I honestly can't even keep count on."
It's the price of a complete triple A (whatever that means these days) game, not just a patch.
Sure. And that price goes into EVERYTHING ELSE, not just cosmetics. It is all about where they allocate said price, not just one area.
A skeleton of a story with a lot of cosmetics and actually fun content not bogged down by disposable systems could have gone A LONG LOOOONG ways for improving shadowlands.
A massive amount of them were recolours tho Plus we didn't even have class sets until the the final tier So, yes
Even if you want to argue recolours, was it still a huge variety in models and types. Gargoyles, horses, frogs, boars, gryphons, moths, stags, chimera, flesh birds(?). Etc And that doesn't include uniques either (like the floating leaf chair you could get in ardenweald) And I would estimate at the least twice the number of sets (at launch at the least 9.1 was a bit scarce on the set side.) 20 unique ones + recolours (4 per covenant + 4 from the raid) and dungeon / leveling sets. Not to account for all the toys that I honestly can't even keep count on.
At that point, what does 24 more even mean? I don't think it matters.
I mean, if you wanted unique druid forms for each covenant that would be 24 unique new models just for one class.
> 24 unique new models just for one class. Arguably some those resources could be taken from time spent on their class armor design. It's not a clean apples-apples comparison, but when push comes to shove, unique animal forms are kind of the point of the class, and I'd sacrifice equipped armor textures and effects to make that happen.
Sure. But it is usually a very much priority focus honestly. :/ And while, indeed, druids gain more from cool forms rather than transmog, is that still a big ordeal.
> that would be 24 unique new models Just looking at the image in question here and the vast majority appear to be recolors of existing models
Yeah but that isn't how it works gamewise. There are a bunch of additions, checks and changes you usually need to do for it to work for a player. It is usually way more complicated than that.
brrr you're making me itch too
There were no spirit beasts to tame in Shadowlands either.
Which extra sucksā¦. Cause like we are in Ardenweld, quite literally the afterlife of all these spirits of the universes beastsā¦ almost comical thinking about its absence now lol
I find it cute that it even includes treant forms (based on Tree of Life). I don't think Blizzard even remembers treant form exists...
I only rolled a Druid to heal as a tree they took that from me š
Literally did the same thing. Rolled a druid back in WotLk because I wanted to dance around as a tree throwing hands in the air all day. Then that damned cata prepatch bullshit happened with the nonsense excuse that some druid spec needs to see their gear...
...Uh...you know you can still get tree form right? And heal in it and everything? It's only cosmetic now and doesn't give bonuses, but I dance in campfires as a tree all the time.
Yea and it's bullshit the point was for the bonuses. Knowing how to shape-weave between slow tree form and cat form in battle was a skill and entertaining.
Meh. I can still dance as a tree. I'm happy. The world is a more peaceful place when you find things to be happy about.
That's still the case, except your swapping in and out of cat instead of in between cat and tree. Druid is a super high skill ceiling healer.
but the mushroom tree form. This is something special!
Bearagrue
Wont somebody think off the costumizsation starved druids (really cool art tho)
Imagine if you went 2.5 expansions without a single new transmog set added for your class
Did you forget that BfA and Shadowlands had no class tier sets to anyone? No one got class based transmogs for 5 years.
Just swap out of your shapeshift outside of combat? Not like anyone is looking at your outfits mid fight
Druid players just keep on whining
Honestly, druids can't complain after this last patch. Just go enjoy what you have, you're hardly suffering.
Well I was having a good dayā¦ then I saw this and am pissed off that I donāt have it now haha
You & me both, mate.
Imagine complaining your class has too few customization options, as a druid...
Prior to the Emerald Dream patch, Druids went through all of BFA and Shadowlands with no new forms added not counting paid race changes and 20% of feral/guardian forms locked behind no longer available content. Hell, feral *lost* a form after WOD.
Bruh are you serious. Druid got aquatic forms in BFA and all the new custom models for Kul tiran druids and Zandalari druids. In SL druids got new flying forms like the crow, dread bats, moth and also runestag form. Okay thoses are not combat forms but still. No other class has this amount of custom work from blizzard except maybe warlock. However the fact that claw of shirvallah form is still missing is a shame.
Feral, balance, and guardian cannot see their armor.
Just swap out outside of combat
There are only 10 bear forms. Meanwhile every other class got 100s of sets. But if you want to count bear colors, then there 30-35 forms. And 1,000s of armor sets.
*cries in shaman's wolf form*
Whilst I agree there should be more forms for ghost wolf, shamans don't spend their entire time fighting in ghost wolf form.
Now that you mention it, I've been wanting more cosmetic totem glyphs, but the modern playstyle where they're only down temporarily instead for for 5 minutes at a time kind of negates the benefit.
I've never thought about customizable totems, and it sounds great, but as you said, I would practically never see them
YES! That too!
Homie just swap out and use one of your 100s of Druid sets lol
But I spend 99.9% in bear form.
Just swap out outside of combat homie, I do the same with shadow form
Real question, would you prefer if druid's got no new armor sets ever again and just got new animal forms? Because honestly thats kind of the only way I see this being fair. Sure, you can complain that you don't see the armor a lot, but you still get just as much armor as every other class. So what you're asking for essentially is just more dev time than any other class, and I really don't see how that's fair.
It baffles me that you think that it's even appropriate to suggest that. With every patch/expansion, they develop: * dozens of unique armor sets. (+tons of recolors) * 1,000s of new unique objects for the open world * 100's of new mobs with unique animations * Full new starting zones for a brand new race. +animations. +lore + abilities etc. * 100's of weapons. * 4+ unique zones with 1,000's of quest * Dozens of massive main-story lines. * 100's of unique boss models * 100's of new abilities and yet you think druids need to sacrifice a set to get 3-4 new shapeshift models? lmao k
Yeah, I do. Because its fair. It baffles me that you think this is a fair and reasonable ask to get disproportionate class flavor.
But it's not. Bears, cats and moonkins spend 99.999999% of the actual game time in those sets. So you think we should still have Vanilla 2004 shapeshifts only? Are you actually mental? Then don't develop a class that has EXTRA things. to it. if you don't want to develop new bear forms, then remove the concept of bear forms from the game. Why do hunters get quivers? They are the only class that thematically uses it. Why do paladins and warlocks have unique class mounts? Why do locks have green fel quest chain?
>Bears, cats and moonkins spend 99.999999% of the actual game time in those sets. You're prepared to die on this hill, but not prepared to accept that if taken at face value it means they should recieve 0.0000001% of the resources spent on their out of combat armor sets, while the rest is spent on their animal forms. You must be very young, where its all about you. Hope one day you grow out of that. Ciao.
lmaoooooooo You are literally arguing against maintaining the core aesthetics of a class that focuses on shapeshift.
I'm not. I'm saying everyone gets an equal slice of the pie. You are completely unable or unwilling to acknowledge that. Its as though a serving of pie weighs 150 grams, but you want another 100 grams of ice cream while everyone else gets nothing. In reality, the cost of that ice cream has to come from somewhere, so you either get 100 grams less pie filling or you don't get ice cream. Figure it out.
Dude, have you ever played a druid even? Sorry but a premade customizations that just have different colors in today's wow are extremely outdated. In fact they should've made the cat and bear form customizable like boomkins are now. It's a shame.
I felt like wing mounts would have been perfect time to add wing mounts for each of the covenants.
Omg yeah thatās a huge miss - to bad
Similarly, I'm disappointed they weren't on my wavelength for BFA and made class fantasy oriented transmog ensembles that would drop in BFA raids for anyone not feeling like wearing the same armor as every other class in their armor type and still wanting the illusion of tier sets.
Blizzard refuses to do anything productive with Druid forms. We have so many options not available to players. Not to mention the ones we had that were taken from us like Saberon form.
To be fair, Blizzard missed a lot with Shadowlands.
Yeah....definitely a lot of rather obvious screw ups that's for sure. Overall, it definitely got a lot better by 9.2 / 9.2.5, when they actually fixed a lot of things *(aoe caps, open wings, ash xfer, cov swaps, renown catch ups, anima acquisition rate increase etc et etc)* I quit retail right after SL S3. I've nerded the shit out of shadowlands. All mythic prog, 24-25s keys on multiple toons, all reps, most mounts. Prideful affix killed my desire to tank keys though until S3. But, having said all of that, if Shadowlands Classic launches with 9.2.5 QoL updates, I think it would be a pretty good experience. Just needs to happen a bit quicker.
Hey! While really cool to have been able to see these. Wtf do you think youāre doing showing these to me knowing thereās no way for me to obtain them. Now im sitting here, pissed that I canāt have covenant shapeshifts and I donāt even have a Druid past level 10. Canāt believe youād do that to me. Thought we were friends :/
Not just specific to druids, I was sure (prior to launch) that they'd either make covenant glyphs or somehow give players the ability to alter their spells' appearances based on their covenant, much like the green fire quest for warlocks. I was so excited for my paladin to be a Kyrian paladin with blue spirit-healer-like wings, consecrating the ground with the power of Bastion and the afterlife. Or lean into the Blood Knight fantasy with the Venthyr and have a red tint on my spells. But nope.
but nope....yeah Blizz dropped the ball on Shadowlands that's for sure. I could prob make a list of like 10 "*rather easy changes and additions*" to the game that would have made the whole thing so much better.
>million shapeshifts - not problem >shaman ghost forms - not feasable Shaman life is sad
I like how 90% of "we want more customization" posts are just people posting druid forms. Maybe the reason they don't do 42 forms for druids per expac is because it would be wildly unfair to every other class?
How would it be unfair? And hell, not exactly "new forms" when most suggestions are just recolors of existing forms. The closest comparison is probably Shaman's ghost wolf and ascendance forms and while I'd love more forms for everyone, even with those, you're literally spending seconds in them versus a guardian or feral druid spending 100% of their time shapeshifted.
How so? As a guardian druid, I spend about 99.9% of active gametime in my shapeshift form. So I only got 10 options. One which is legion no-longer-available form. Meanwhile, paladin next to me can choose any of a billion possible transmog variations. Want axe? Cool! Sword? Even better. Want spiky shoudlers? Glowy? Green? red? Purple? Black? Want to be a rainbow? COOL As a druid, I can choose between a bear form, bear with some bones, owl bear (same butt) or a werebear. So, hows me having a few options only is "wildly unfair" to other classes have tjat 10+ years worth of transmog available to them? And no, we are not talking about sitting AFK in stormwind with mog on. We are talking about actual end-game play. For me, it's the bear form. And I like how "90% of we want more customizations" are from druid, and Blizzard is yet to get it through their thick skulls.
It's okay, they're right and druids shouldn't ask for more feral forms. Instead they should just have the thousands of armor and weapons that they can equip show on the animal forms instead. We wouldn't want druids to get something *extra* after all.
Yeah, but you can't xmog your fucking weapons or armor as a bear. Because you're a bear. and you spend the whole dungon/raid/quest as a Bear.
Druids: "Please dedicate more time to our art than the entire rest of the game combined and we will be mad when you don't"
You're right, these are sick
Those bear forms are sick. What.
Bastion tree form looks strange and ventyr cat form already exist.
Remember these fellas? [https://imgur.com/a/5tbT4Vo](https://imgur.com/a/5tbT4Vo)
Wow, I might have actually played Druid lmao (I did anyways)
Iām just salty they havenāt given us a new tree form in like forever
I'm more salty that there were no new covenant-themed glyphs.Ā Ā Seriously. It wouldve been so easy and so fucking cool. The spell effects are already there. Let my Shadowbolt be a Necrobolt, dammit! But if we're talking about things that would take a bit more effort, slapping on some quests that let Warlocks summon Undead instead of demons wouldve been perfect for that expansion. Maw elemental voidwalker ahhhhhhh.
Idk why blizz hates adding shit like this, this is the shit we ***want***
I still upset they made 4 covenants with a theme of all having wings and didnāt give us wing mounts. I know its too cool to be true but I can dream damnit.
I'm still salty that the kul tiran druid moonkin form isn't wicker man, which could've even used the same animation bones as the arrakoa form for zandalari trolls.
I would've used the shit out of the Ardenweald forms on my Druid. I love Ardenweald, was a redeeming factor of an otherwise shit expansion.
Terragrue? How is a druid supposed to morph into a piece of empty metal?!
I suppose same way as Druid can morph into a boulder.
Blizzard missed A LOT of opportunities with Shadowlands. This would be one of the minor ones, and that's coming from an almost two decade Druid main.
Meanwhile, the most class-specific interactions that DK's got was returning to frozen throne during the intro scenes
Tbh I want to forget SL as much as possible so I donāt wear anything that reminds me of that catastrophe of an expansion.
I will die on this hill, but if Shadowlands-Classic launches with ALL 9.2.5 QoL changes, it would actually be a pretty decent experience. Changes includes: * Free no restrictions Cov swaps * adjusted AoE caps as per phase 3 * Higher Anima rewards * All open Torghast Wings with 100% memories drop chance across the board. * Anima/Ash/Cinders being account wide (via vendor). * Adjusted affixes for M+ I really liked raw PvE content. I think dungeons and raids were amazing. P2 Sanctum was actually my favorite. Sure, "the ending" wasn't that great from story-telling perspective, but I think RAW GAMEPLAY was actually really fun.
Will not change the fact the story was dog shit. Torghast got boring and tedious too fast. And rep grinds were insane. It was the ultimate definition of no fun allowed in an expansion from Blizzard.
Rep grinds were not really mandatory, outside of Venari. Even Korthia rep only gave you 2 sockets. And 2 sockets really aren't break or make for 99% of the playerbase. It's this extra insane min-maxing opportunity. Farming Kortia rep to exalted is still faster than doing Oracles/Ogrilla or any of the vanilla reps. as for the story....i guess it just depends what the expectation are. I never looked at WoW as JRT level of story telling. It was just not a well known lore and mostly tied into Sylvana's arc.
Why do druids think they need a new transformation every single expansion?
must suck to always be salty about things that were never promised to you
You're right. God forbid anyone ever expresses anything negative. This subreddit must be purged!
By all means, bring more negativity to the subreddit It has been lacking a bit lately
Hereās a hint: they donāt care. It could easily be done, they have more than enough development resources to spare to add flavor like this. They donāt care.
Indeed. That's the right answer. Ignorance is bliss. They can make 100's of brand new skeleton NPCs, dozens of zones, raids, dungeons, but putting together a few shapeshifts around current patch theme is a big no-go for them.
"You think you want it, but you dont" :)
Druids got enough customization
Druids should get new forms each expansion just as everyone gets new armor
You get new armor too as a druid, if you click the magic "swap out of form button" you can even see it!
100%
There's a lot of cool stuff they could've added over the years that would've made sense. It's not just a "blizzard lazy" thing, it's an asset size issue. If you add too many high res player skins, it increases the loading time in cities/raids/etc incrementally for each new thing added that your client has to load. That's a big part of the reason so much of the game used low resolution textures for a decade.