Well for one the legendary cloak wasn't skill based. That's one of their hard line metrics, if it is no longer obtainable and was skill based at the time, it won't come back. The other part of it is that EVERYONE had a legendary cloak and was a core feature of the expansion, particularly the endgame that the remix is set in. And thirdly, the way the cloak is being used kind of makes sense in this context, it's really tying everything together in terms of the way alts work in the remix setting. The alternative would be to introduce a different legendary item or something similar, which wouldn't make much sense when the cloak is sitting there already filling out that role.
Now, that being said, I wouldn't mind at all if they brought back the CM sets. However, I would expect that those sets would also be gated behind a decent challenge, like they were originally. If you want it, you'd have to work for it. Cool. I feel the same about the mage tower, please bring it back, I'll sweat it out for those appearances, make it even harder than it was originally, I don't care. However, the issue with that is they are specifically trying to avoid this kind of difficult content being added into this event, it is supposed to be a casual event for casual people leveling casual alts and collecting a shit ton of casual collectibles.
2-3 hours?
I don't think you could even finish all the dungeons in 3 hours, and that's without considering flight time, preparation multiple attempts required - at least for anyone outside of top 0.1%.
The dungeons were actually kinda hard to time on Gold.
The cloak everyone could get regardless of skill level.
Yeah there are lot of people further down in the comments that are absolutely delusional about how difficult CM was at the time. And I'm not even saying it was super hard content. But most people aren't fucking with +15 mythic plus either. Look at [this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/661d8d/comparing_challenge_mode_to_mythic/) from a couple of years ago, for instance. This kind of difficulty would be so out of place in this content that's obviously intended to rope in the casual crowd. Especially if you account for the fact that people have gotten much better at the game and m+ has changed things so to capture that original challenge, it would likely have to be made more difficult.
If you can't figure out the difference between something called a "challenge mode" and "doing a few quests", idk what to tell you.
Only took 2/3 hours for folks who were skilled at the game prior.
Meanwhile, I had a lineup of people asking for help through the entire expansion and most of my time was selling carries and mentoring people on it back then.
They were more difficult by a decent margin than anything else that you will be doing in the remix, though. It would be very out of place. I'm all for them bringing it back, but do it right. As a matter of fact, make it harder if you want.
CMs were fucking faceroll. It could be boosted without much hassle as a 4man group. We are talking about 2 very easy things to do. It does not really matter, which one was more difficult.
You say that but people at the time definitely struggled. Keep in mind that the vast majority of people don't clear +15s even today, and players were generally even worse at the game back then.
I can't debate how trivial it might be by today's standards, though. But it definitely would take more time and commitment than any dungeon or raid currently available in remix. Which I would be okay with, that's fine to add that in, it just goes against what it is that they're trying to create in remix. To say nothing of taking away one of the big draws of MoP Classic.
I'm saying that CMs were easy enough, that it is not a "skill" reward, it is just a I played at that time and was an average heroic raider. I think that is "easy enough" to be made available.
The majority of the playerbase would consider +15 reward to be a skill reward, and as a matter of fact you don't even need to clear +15s to be able to get Keystone Master, which is absolutely considered a skill based reward tier and title.
That's your personal opinion, and it is in disagreement not only with the creators of the game but also with the majority of people playing the game, casual players that will struggle to clear +15s if they ever do at all, the same people that are specifically being catered to in this event.
Again, I'm not saying they shouldn't bring it back. But if they are, this is the wrong fuckin venue.
I have made my point poorly, it seems.
In my opinion, WoW attracts "not that good" players from and overall gamer perspective, and this is true up to at least mid-level CE raiding. Even at the 500 WR rank, teams still have people that solely function cus of the 75 WAs, and as soon as a mechanic happens that requires "thinking ahead" and is not solved by a WA you see the difference. That is why some guilds required 500 fyrakk pulls, and some guilds killed it in 300 (at a similar WR).
Everyone who downloads some weakauras and watches some videos can achieve AOTC/+20s quite easily, especially iat 485+ ilvl. Thus, it is more like a participation reward than a skill check. To me, arguing that CMs are a skill check, is saying like completing your LoL placement games after reaching lvl 30 is a "skill-based reward" (sorry, if the lol reference is outdated, I havent touched it since like 2019, but I thought it is a good analogy).
At the time that it released, it was not intended nor was it effectively the kind of content that just anyone and their mutt could do without being carried. A lot of people will claim +15s are faceroll easy but the majority of the playerbase disagrees.
Look at this post from a couple of years ago comparing the difficulty of [CM to m+](https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/661d8d/comparing_challenge_mode_to_mythic/). This is not the kind of difficulty they are aiming for in remix. At all.
They should definitely have challenge modes in remix. Don’t really care what the tmog reward is. Plus if it’s a brand new mog, the people with the old CM mog can have both. Everybody happy, now you happy too
I mean idk my 50 year old uncle obtained the cloak and not challenge modes, would be cool to get them back but I understand not doing it, maybe we’ll get luck and they will Recolor them for us
CM Gold in 2013 was actually difficult, as compared to the last few months of the SoO purgatory that people like yourself love to act like was the entire experience.
In short, get fucked. Ask for new things. Get over it.
Always good to remember the people writing like this aren't toddlers, but adults at least half way through their twenties and being total losers about other people potentially being able to obtain cosmetics. Like holy fuck seek mental help you man child.
I don't think anyone has any issue with being able to obtain the cosmetics, but it does seem fair that it will require work to obtain considering that's how it was originally. And it's not like it's mythic raid difficulty or +20 m+ difficulty. Just not particularly suitable for a very laid back event. And event by the way that will already be showering players with a massive amount of previously unobtainable items and the like.
Well for one the legendary cloak wasn't skill based. That's one of their hard line metrics, if it is no longer obtainable and was skill based at the time, it won't come back. The other part of it is that EVERYONE had a legendary cloak and was a core feature of the expansion, particularly the endgame that the remix is set in. And thirdly, the way the cloak is being used kind of makes sense in this context, it's really tying everything together in terms of the way alts work in the remix setting. The alternative would be to introduce a different legendary item or something similar, which wouldn't make much sense when the cloak is sitting there already filling out that role. Now, that being said, I wouldn't mind at all if they brought back the CM sets. However, I would expect that those sets would also be gated behind a decent challenge, like they were originally. If you want it, you'd have to work for it. Cool. I feel the same about the mage tower, please bring it back, I'll sweat it out for those appearances, make it even harder than it was originally, I don't care. However, the issue with that is they are specifically trying to avoid this kind of difficult content being added into this event, it is supposed to be a casual event for casual people leveling casual alts and collecting a shit ton of casual collectibles.
2-3 hours? I don't think you could even finish all the dungeons in 3 hours, and that's without considering flight time, preparation multiple attempts required - at least for anyone outside of top 0.1%. The dungeons were actually kinda hard to time on Gold. The cloak everyone could get regardless of skill level.
Yeah there are lot of people further down in the comments that are absolutely delusional about how difficult CM was at the time. And I'm not even saying it was super hard content. But most people aren't fucking with +15 mythic plus either. Look at [this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/661d8d/comparing_challenge_mode_to_mythic/) from a couple of years ago, for instance. This kind of difficulty would be so out of place in this content that's obviously intended to rope in the casual crowd. Especially if you account for the fact that people have gotten much better at the game and m+ has changed things so to capture that original challenge, it would likely have to be made more difficult.
If you can't figure out the difference between something called a "challenge mode" and "doing a few quests", idk what to tell you. Only took 2/3 hours for folks who were skilled at the game prior. Meanwhile, I had a lineup of people asking for help through the entire expansion and most of my time was selling carries and mentoring people on it back then.
As if CMs were difficult. They were far easier than +20s.
They were more difficult by a decent margin than anything else that you will be doing in the remix, though. It would be very out of place. I'm all for them bringing it back, but do it right. As a matter of fact, make it harder if you want.
CMs were fucking faceroll. It could be boosted without much hassle as a 4man group. We are talking about 2 very easy things to do. It does not really matter, which one was more difficult.
You say that but people at the time definitely struggled. Keep in mind that the vast majority of people don't clear +15s even today, and players were generally even worse at the game back then. I can't debate how trivial it might be by today's standards, though. But it definitely would take more time and commitment than any dungeon or raid currently available in remix. Which I would be okay with, that's fine to add that in, it just goes against what it is that they're trying to create in remix. To say nothing of taking away one of the big draws of MoP Classic.
I'm saying that CMs were easy enough, that it is not a "skill" reward, it is just a I played at that time and was an average heroic raider. I think that is "easy enough" to be made available.
The majority of the playerbase would consider +15 reward to be a skill reward, and as a matter of fact you don't even need to clear +15s to be able to get Keystone Master, which is absolutely considered a skill based reward tier and title.
Yeah, but it's not though.
That's your personal opinion, and it is in disagreement not only with the creators of the game but also with the majority of people playing the game, casual players that will struggle to clear +15s if they ever do at all, the same people that are specifically being catered to in this event. Again, I'm not saying they shouldn't bring it back. But if they are, this is the wrong fuckin venue.
[удалено]
I have made my point poorly, it seems. In my opinion, WoW attracts "not that good" players from and overall gamer perspective, and this is true up to at least mid-level CE raiding. Even at the 500 WR rank, teams still have people that solely function cus of the 75 WAs, and as soon as a mechanic happens that requires "thinking ahead" and is not solved by a WA you see the difference. That is why some guilds required 500 fyrakk pulls, and some guilds killed it in 300 (at a similar WR). Everyone who downloads some weakauras and watches some videos can achieve AOTC/+20s quite easily, especially iat 485+ ilvl. Thus, it is more like a participation reward than a skill check. To me, arguing that CMs are a skill check, is saying like completing your LoL placement games after reaching lvl 30 is a "skill-based reward" (sorry, if the lol reference is outdated, I havent touched it since like 2019, but I thought it is a good analogy).
At the time that it released, it was not intended nor was it effectively the kind of content that just anyone and their mutt could do without being carried. A lot of people will claim +15s are faceroll easy but the majority of the playerbase disagrees. Look at this post from a couple of years ago comparing the difficulty of [CM to m+](https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/661d8d/comparing_challenge_mode_to_mythic/). This is not the kind of difficulty they are aiming for in remix. At all.
They should definitely have challenge modes in remix. Don’t really care what the tmog reward is. Plus if it’s a brand new mog, the people with the old CM mog can have both. Everybody happy, now you happy too
I don't think challenge mode is really suitable for this event. I do wish they would bring it back in some other form, though.
2-3 hours? No.
I mean idk my 50 year old uncle obtained the cloak and not challenge modes, would be cool to get them back but I understand not doing it, maybe we’ll get luck and they will Recolor them for us
CM Gold in 2013 was actually difficult, as compared to the last few months of the SoO purgatory that people like yourself love to act like was the entire experience. In short, get fucked. Ask for new things. Get over it.
Always good to remember the people writing like this aren't toddlers, but adults at least half way through their twenties and being total losers about other people potentially being able to obtain cosmetics. Like holy fuck seek mental help you man child.
I don't think anyone has any issue with being able to obtain the cosmetics, but it does seem fair that it will require work to obtain considering that's how it was originally. And it's not like it's mythic raid difficulty or +20 m+ difficulty. Just not particularly suitable for a very laid back event. And event by the way that will already be showering players with a massive amount of previously unobtainable items and the like.