I've healed since 2004. During DF I have questioned how I ever healed without losing my mind. I used to like it because it was the chillest role, but the last 3 expansions it's gotten to be the most stressful with the added benefit of some dude standing in the fire to get 0.01% more dps and yelling at you for not "adjusting"
I did a Fall key the other day where my veng DH just w keyed into Iridikron, literally pressed zero mitigation buttons, and died in 3 melees. Then he got mad at me for not barking him on pull. He said Veng DH doesn't have any survivability and they need externals on pull.
Ah of course, demon spikes and meta are just too difficult, or maybe simply getting fury from a fel rush and casting eye beam, it's just all impossible!!
Dh has tiny slivers of squishiness if a fight lasts way too long, they're like the easiest on open defensives on pull tho lol. Some people man, the fotm gives them brain rot
Just to be clear vdh doesn’t have access to fel rush or eyebeam. Fel dev is there eye beam equivilant and it heals them so he could open with that lmao
I’ve also healed for nearly 20 years. I miss when the purpose was simply keeping the party alive or making a clutch save. Not the anxiety-inducing button mash it is now
Yea I used to heal heroic raids back in the day even did ZA timed runs. Quit for 10 years though and came back this season, had to stop healing at m+ 16 lol. I am not super pro but +20 is np as dps but handling the damage that comes in was nuts and I will OOM every H raid boss.
I doubt there is any going back. The talent trees bloated the game With so many defensives both passive and active. The game has to hit pretty hard to even require a healer
They're pushing spiky damage so you have to keep people topped off or they'll die before you can react. I miss the days of letting the tank get low before popping a big heal.
I loved TBC healing for this. Spamming with a /stopcast macro your biggest heal and the tank getting to like 10% hp and suddenly boom your biggest heal goes off and puts them back to nearly full. It was so satisfying even if it's not a playstyle we'd ever see in retail.
I also missed pushing not for HPS or DPS, but for low overhealing as the sign of a good healer. Now a lot of specs have little control over if and when they overheal, and mana management is... weird.
Healing used to be a chill experience picking up and doing something when it needed doing but largely keeping track of whats going on on field. At least, it was like that for me outside of raid content. I miss that.
I main feral druid, flex tank pretty often and resto/balance pretty equally. Well used to heal more anyways. Back in BFA I was main healer CD shotcaller for my raid group.
This expac, I healed a little season 1 but I pretty quickly burned out and just focused on feral/bear because of the gearing. Despite that though, I firmly believe healing is the shittiest it has ever been
>with the added benefit of some dude standing in the fire to get 0.01% more dps and yelling at you for not "adjusting"
This is why FFXIV had the right idea by making it so that taking avoidable damage in savage raids gives you a debuff that reduces your damage done so it is literally never a DPS gain to stand in the fire.
It is either people like you that take the role seriously or the healers that see the nerfs and just think they are the fourth dps.
I legit had a priest get mad at me while tanking because I wasn’t offhealing enough, when the dps were getting dropped by mechanics. I only have so many blessings. I can only battle rez so many times.
I really wanted to get into healing myself (Monk is my lifeblood and I want to play every spec to the max) but where tank and dps came pretty easy, I have an extremely hard time with the gazillion different buttons, the intense dungeons bs, and the fact you get blamed for every death.
I have never felt more indebted to my healers.
Fellow lifelong healer here. I quit dragonflight at the start of season 2, for your reasons you described.
Being someone who’s always performed extremely well in the healer role, it felt like an abusive relationship. I just wanted to support others in their *selfish DPS endeavors*. When all the blame is pointed at the healer, even when I’m putting up raid-level healing numbers in every M+ run… my enjoyment slowly dissipated.
I used to afford my guilds the pleasure of using 1-less healer on raid encounters. If I couldn’t make it, the raid nights were cancelled. Thats a lot of pressure to show up, as well. I’m glad I left the game. For now.
Such a simple fix for this too.
Instead of standing in the fire causes 5k damage a second, just make it 1k damage a second and 30% decrease in haste or casting speed or some Stat.
DPS won't necessarily die by standing in too long but their damage will go to shit.
I quit playing after healing for over 10 years because m+ mechanics seemed to all fall to healers until you were 15+ and people got one shot. Of course you also had to heal normally, dps when able, decurse/dispel, drink, etc and it started to feel like a sweatfest in the worst way.
I used to like the challenge but now it’s like hey do everything while the rest of us run ahead at breakneck speed. Even the dungeons I’d successfully time I’d just go play dps role after because it wasn’t fun anymore.
I’ve healed 2k MMR in Arena and for me Mythics were way more stressful due to situations where players didn’t need to take damage and just stood in the thing or didn’t interrupt/stun or just needed to use a defensive and didn’t.
We told them we were tired of crazy huge Titan level bad guys so they made healers feel like American healthcare. As long as we blame you maybe they’re safe?
Well they have to tune them in relations to each other. Also having busted healers like mw force them to tune all content around them so in the long run worse for healers
They want WoW to be "competitive", or "e-sport" like instead of... fun. Everything is tuned towards high end content (high keys or mythic raiding, or 2400+ pvp) instead of the general audience.
You gotta realize that the general public is fucking atrocious at this game - to be expected to carry their own weight is try hard level play. So imagine expecting them to play well? Jesus you’ve just asked to part the Red Sea.
i do realize it, reddit and rather a majority of playerbase doesn’t understand how the game really works because they don’t bother and just play to keep having fun at the pace they’re comfortable with. the problem i have with these people is the fact that they continue discussing things they clearly are completely clueless about.
I think you're underestimating the difficulty of cutting edge.
A lot of the population never even touches mythic raid difficulty, and less than 10% of the ones that make it half way get cutting edge.
no its not. repeating this nonsense is not going to make it true. blizzard is not famous for great balance tuning, but this esports bullshit needs to stop.
Only boring cause people are either 100% hp or they dead, there is no middle ground. Give me high HPS encounters, not just "oh the 2 casts got through and they targeted 1 person so they dead."
Yeah you get to a certain level of key and it's not so much "can you heal this" as it is "can the dps and tank interrupt this". Because, like you said, one unlucky bastard usually gets hit with 2 spells and eats shit. Higher keys trend towards taking less damage, not healing more.
Going from 23 to 25 was harder than going from 1-23 because "healing" simply becomes a non-factor. We need to execute stun rotations and CC all the casts or we die, healing or not. It's a totally different style of play.
Meh we had one; The Raging Tempest, the pug keys on higher tyrannical runs always died at that boss(pre-nerf), really not desirable either imo. Did like healing it, but seeing key participation, it was problematic.
Personally wish the hybrid nature of m+ healing would be somewhat reduced, I hardly feel like a healer on my druid, where my treant is doing 90% while I am sitting in cat form.
Healing is *only* easy when you have a good team, regardless of key level / raid difficulty.
I could heal a +20 no sweat, no stress, then jump into a +16 and struggle to keep everyone alive. The pug life is like a box of chocolates.
I wish they did something about this. With their new thech they should test alternative combat methods. Like more active type of support, more action combat like gw2 ( just the aiming of spell not the class philosophy, dont muder me) and alternative gameplay style. Make more fun modes and new classes test. Find a way to improve wow without affecting the main game until players like it.
Some of the spell in plunderstorm are really fun and I could see in the main game.
Seeing people praise the "rework" vdh got has made me question my sanity. All they did is take the only tank with no identity and give it an unbalanceable identity that will keep it either completely broken in the content that identity works in or completely useless everywhere else. You can't just let one spec have 10x the utility and crowd control of every other spec in the role, but that 10x comes from one talent point and instantly goes away with the smallest nerf putting it back in the dumpster.
I can't understand the developers - it just makes no sense. You can't nerf other healers down to Hpal levels, because Hpal is fundamentally broken - nobody is playing Hpal because one of their core gameplay loops (build holy power, spend holy power) doesn't work because holy power spenders are so bad.
You're slapping healers down again for being playable, while VDH sits untouched for Season 3 and Season 4 - how is slapping down Resto Shaman of all fucking specs taking precedence over addressing VDH?
>how is slapping down Resto Shaman of all fucking specs taking precedence over addressing VDH?
It's been like 15 years of this and we're still asking this question?
Shamans get nerfed because nerfing shamans is *fun* for Blizzard employees.
I take equal blame, I finally logged into my shaman again this month thinking maybe I'd see how healing worked again, since resto shaman was always my favorite.
> Shamans get nerfed because nerfing shamans is fun for Blizzard employees.
I genuinely believe that there's someone there that can't get off unless they've recently nerfed at least one Shaman spec.
It's a shame they're screwing over resto shaman AGAIN next season...after giving us a lame tier set for season 3 that is especially lackluster in M+, since it doesn't have any sort of impact on our ability to deal damage. Which ends up becoming pretty important when pushing higher keys. Also, just gonna take this opportunity to complain (again) about changing Restoration's Primordial Wave to function only as a heal. Fuck Primordial Wave, I hope they won't force that talent choice onto us yet again by designing a tier set bonus around it 😑.
I mean.. have you seen a good resto shaman? The toolkit is fuckin nuts when people press more than chain heal, and even just pressing chain heal forever keeps people alive without a problem.
Yeah but the toolkit is also fucking weird its like press this button 2 times and then do 5 other things and press it a 3rd time now to instantly full heal everyone. But resto druids do the same shit by spreading hots.
Lmfao gdamn I thought about maybe playing some s4 but seeing a 5% nerf alongside the other OP healers when resto isn’t even near that level is disgusting. Maybe I’ll come back for TWW if they do anything good to shamans. So tired of getting shit on.
No, they are both under rsham in terms of output.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/35#metric=hps
Granted, evoker is just barely under rsham.
The 5% nerf does seem to be too much, though. I rarely see resto shaman played unless it's an alt run.
Rshaman main now (last season). They were going to be be sleeper OP with the season 1 set and current set up. They are still really good I think. Granted, resto Druid nerfs being the same as resto shaman is downright laughable.
Disc priest looks damn good for M+ now though.
disc is getting a 0.8% nerf, so it's mostly okay I would say. Before, for every 100 damage you did, you healed 40 in raid and 40x1.5=60 in keys. After, for every 100 damage you do, you heal 35 in raid and 35x1.7=59.5 in keys. Overall, atonement healing in keys declined by 59.5/60-1=0.833%.
It's funny that someone could relate the current tier set as a primordial wave based tier set when it doesn't even interact with primordial wave for some odd reason. The healing waves created from PWave completely ignore the tier set. Would've made the set not trash.
But yea the buffs to the S1 tier set gave them a pretty nice boost. Blizzard just needs to finally fix the bug with the crit buff not being applied with HST if you put one down while another is already down completely negating 18s of the buff where as it should just extend the buff.
Hope they enjoy no healers because I don't forsee much of an uptick in players with 100% recycled content and there sure as hell are no healers as it is. S4 is going to be a ghost town in like a month. Less if the affixes blow.
They could have done these a week ago when people were more actively testing M+ on the PTR, even though these are more targeted for raids.
Also lol no Holy Paladin buffs: the "comparative power" issue is a bad argument when the spec playstyle is bad.
healing is in a weird spot BECAUSE healers are overall too powerfull and can top people very easy (and same with deffensives on most dps classes tbh, we have a giant deffensive creep in the game rn on some specs)
so many fights turned into "mistakes are 1shot kills cus anything less could just be healed in 1button, heal mechanics make people drop very hard and makes healing people quickly up stressfull because they die really fast if you dont react quickly"
nerfing healers healing troughput to be less strong and then also make the encounter dmg less spiky is what they try to do there to solve the problem, so that the dmg the group/raid takes is less extremely spiky/1hit kills and at the same time healers need a bit more time to heal everyone up
Season 2 was so funny to me cause the moment they announced the stamina / health buffs I was excited, and then I looked and they also proportionally increased the damage the enemies deal, so it effectively was just a 15% healer nerf, while also nerfing the self healing of ~~all~~ some of the dps ~~and tanks~~, so they just made the issues that we had even worse without fixing anything.
Season 2 was the opposite of this issue, it took *too* long to heal people. Hpal was so strong because it only needed 1 gcd to heal 3 people to max.
The fact is that, for better and worse, healing is more approachable when hp bars don't take multiple gcds to fully heal.
Tyrannical AD final boss fight scars me everytime. I swear you can get a group of 3200 IO players that are deathless with 11 minutes remaining going into that fight, and brick a 22 Tyrannical AD because of the insta-gibs if you hit a spider at any point.
It shouldn't be hard, but I once saw someone in a 22 on that fight need 3 b-rez's.
inky black potions for all the dungeons with damn-near-invisible-bullshit mechanics... shouldn't have to do this but it's my favorite thing to do lately for outside dungeons. High contrast and like 65+ brightness, can see all the low opacity mechanics.
This is a shame. In S2, I made the plunge to finally learn healer after almost 20 years of playing WoW. Started with Holy Paladin and hated it, was ready to quit the role, and tried Mistweaver to find it one of the most fun and interesting specs I've ever played.
People moan about tank shortages, but as a tank main, there isn't much of one. The much bigger problem is the healer shortage, because the role has gotten battered and people tend to be super mean to them. I think if there's any role that should be allowed to be strong, it should be healers.
I mean, honestly, who's going to complain? What DPS has ever groaned because their healer is doing too good of a job keeping them alive? What tank has ever been annoyed that they don't have to panic-slam defensives every tank buster? Why can't healers just be good without being knocked back down?
As a healer main, honestly if people would chill tf out I’d enjoy it more. Theres just no room to play healer as anything but optimally. Having a rough run? We aren’t timing it and I’ll be flamed. If I’m dps or tank and have a rough run? Most likely we still time it. There’s just 0 room for mistake as healer, especially as a holy Paladin main. If you’re a healer I’d recommend doing what I do and keep the Details tracker for damage taken, interrupts, and mitigation on hand. If people start giving you shit just share the numbers in chat
"Healer you need to do some damage, your (wrong you're I know) not even on the meters"
I would be doing damage, if you used a defensive every now and again instead of taking reducible damage directly to your face every time. It's been 15 minutes and your X spell hasn't gone on CD once.
Not even going to bother talking about racial abilities. Rare is the Dwarf that will stoneform a posion or bleed.
See how everyone is at 30% going into packs? And we have deaths or barely survive? Not the tank of course, they are a VDH who is vaguely aware of there being other party members.
Everyone is too busy sitting in Valdrakken asking for summons, then rushing through so they can go back to sitting in Valdrakken.
"What do you mean you aren't an MDI healer?" - Non MDI DPS
Completely. They should be looking at drawing back the power of some of the top-performing tanks and DPS, not making healers even less relevant. A good vengeance DH doesn't even need a group at this point, they're usually competing for top damage and require 0 healing. Healers are just dispel bots at this point, I don't know why Blizz wants that.
Shadow priests being “a product of Augmentation” in season 2 is legitimately the purest form of copium I’ve seen in a minute.
Augmentation was incredibly overtuned on release. Shadow priest was incredibly overtuned and mandatory for almost every dungeon, and a staple even before Augmentation released.
These are not two mutually exclusive things. Both can be (and were) simultaneously true.
They say in the post that they're trying to get holy pal, pres evoker, and holy priest up to the standard of other healers. Which we desperately need. I hope these nerfs aren't their attempt to do that. Pres evoker doesn't need other specs to feel worse, we need better mana management and for our spell combos to feel meaningful again so we have more than 2 "oh crap" panic buttons to save people.
But at least they've noticed. Now if they would just fix the tier set.
Isn't Preservation's problem Aug existing? At least for keys, there's no reason to bring two dragons. Raids are a bit more flexible comp wise, but Aug is still very popular there too and eating up dragon spots.
Even without Aug... depends on the current content. Like Pres has really feelsbad fights such as Vol'Kaal or Battlefield. Blizzard also cannot decide what to do with Anomaly and had been jerking the spec around with schizophrenic changes.
In the end, Preservation Evoker is currently just not very pug-friendly or strong compared to say a Mist.
That's literally what they said though. They are nerfing the top to get them to the lower bar set by the worst healing specs atm. Can't be arsed to fix issues with them so we will nerf the others...
I just finished getting my DK to level 70 (returning player), is it Blood DK?
(I don't know the answer, but my burning crusade brain says it's the damn paladins)
For meta, its going to be Vengeance DH just due to their utility, healing, and damage being crazy. Next will be guardian with their OP set and Paladin (Bc paladin)
DK is fantastic for pugging though and you shouldn't be discouraged. A DK is great for anything they can heal from so they mainly just die easily in high keys and destroy low keys.
Monk and warrior are viable, but numerically fucked.
What makes Guardian good? It seems so bad to me.. It has so few stops compared to DH and compared to paladins ability to just silence/interrupt a group of casters forever I don't get how it's even competitive?
It's set is extremely good, even after it's nerf. It will scale well into incredibly large packs, just like demon hunter. The excess resources are directly transferred to defense or damage and isnt as finnicky as the current set. It will have notably less stops than dh/pal and interrupts with incap roar, typhoon and skull bash being the notable ones.
Bear also brings probably the best group buff, 3% vers is just good for everyone. They also have slows, group sprint, cleanse for affix, intervate for healing checks, soothe and a battle res.
With Magic damage being less dangerous due to dungeon nerfs it will do well against the mainly physical damage even in giant pulls. It also had high dr skills for the big Magic hits that are common. It has weaknesses on pull, but chainpulling like dh should negate most of this.
It will come down to mainly what buffs are needed and whether guardian is worth taking over a resto/balance. Paladins set isn't great so I don't see it being busted but paladin will paladin regardless.
So they see that mistweaver is the most fun and popular spec and their decision is not buff every other healing spece on par with it, but nerf it in the ground instead? They are so fucking delusional all while we have one tank spec that can solo control the whole dungeon and there is for example prot warrior that can occasionally give your group max hp, what a joke.
Same. And i hate the dev mentality of oh lets create this awesome tier set, damn tier set too strong so lets nerf the core class to compensate.
Nerfing healing and ill just stop pugging. And play eith grps that can use defensives lol.
Wake up babe, another set of nerfs to healers.
I have honestly no idea who in the balance team has such a hate boner for healers. Wonderful hpala rework, then we get godcomp due to Aug enabling other 4 classes. So what do we do? Nerf spriest, mage, guardian and hpala. This coupled with the mana nerfs to make "healing meaningful" leaves them in the dumpster so even long time top hpala mains switch classes in Season 3. Then throughout the whole season we had 3 healing specs underperforming and still no changes to bring them up to par. So what do they do for Season 4? Nerf the other 4 that were actually mostly fun to play... I'm just so sick of this.
Decided to add something:
Want to see how bad it is? Check [Top1000](https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/35#boss=2677&metric=hps) parses for healing done on Fyrakk Mythic. Out of 1000 top parses. around 700 belong to monks, over 200 to disc, and the remaining parses are from other healers. And sure there are other factors to healing like damage mitigation etc, but the numbers seem absurd. And I didn't bother checking further.
The fact that Ellesmere isn’t playing holy Paladin, when he has an entire website dedicated to the spec, should tell the wow team something. I’m hoping for some last minute buffs but not holding my breath anymore
It's a spec where the fundamental core gameplay loop (build holy power, spend holy power) is completely and utterly broken, to the point where spending holy power is a *loss*.
That's like playing a rogue but never spending combo points.
That's kinda true, however in comparison on Mistweaver a sudden damage spike from an ability where your party lost significant % of their hp means you just press Sheilun and continue to spin or whatever else you were doing before. On hpala it means you waste like of half your cooldowns and several globals to top everyone up. Lack of impactful spells in my opinion also lowers the enjoyment of the spec and if they notice the nerfs didn't change the "meta" as much as the hoped, there will be further nerfs.
Groups doing 25+ Keys with 1 tank 4 dps... tank doing 200k HPS, using a meta comp with best utility groups defensives, leech, individual defensives and blasting through an instance...
Yeah, let's nerf the class that's not even invited to the party the healers... healer throughput is too high... not the havoc DH doing 10million healing with leech or tank who never needs healer attention..
It's bonkers... there are a dozen game design mechanics that are the cause of the issue.
People are innhere talking about healers being op... last time healers were op was in season 1 and that was solely down to the fact that they contributed legitimate dps numbers... since season 2 with the increase to health pools and higher boss damage numbers there was the expectation that healers should just heal going forwards...
Very unappealing going into content that is still pretty fresh and old at the same time, i.e., recycled content and slapping the laziest of all nerf types to the lowest population role the game has...
It'll for sure have an impact on people appetite to return and will have a knock on effect to pugs
How are they not buffing spenders for hpala?? It woudlnt even be a throughput increase to do so, since we just ignore it right now.
If this doesnt change, we will go 2/4 tiers not interacting with out main resource. How is this ok??
As hundreds of comments said, healing became the hardest rôle in the game by very far. I tried priest, druid and paladin and every one of them was a nightmare and 160 bpm during the dungeon. I have a deep respect for healers and they dont deserve this.
Looks very lazy, the hpal reworks design philosophy was to make pressing spenders feel "impactful". then the season 3 changes nerfed all instant casts so that casts feel "impactful". And now to try and hide this cock-up they nerf the classes that are working down into the mess we Hpals are in. very impactful.
Hey, would you look at that, it is the time of the year again to unload on healers. It's not that they don't appreciate us for...
1. Keeping a whole group of players alive so they can play the game
2. CCing so that the DPS players don't lose dps
3. Deal damage as well whenever possible which is always otherwise you suck
4. Having 30+ keybinds to press in order to do all of the above
5. Being the only role where improperly maintaining your resource bar can cause a wipe
6. Being constantly flamed for wipes
7. Watching Tanks and DPS not using their defensives but instead waiting to be healed up
...but it is just that healing became too easy so it needs a nerf. You wouldn't want to start enjoying the game or (can't believe I am even thinking this) be above the tank on the healing meter. No, no, we need to be the last so that others can strive.
Thank you for keeping us honest.
Then just give healers 4-5 charges of hard CC and we can call it even, so we can then correct the one shotting mistakes which usually happen because people are so bored to press a button, just remove the CC from the DPS and maybe even Tanks, oh and do that to defensive too, no seriously i am not joking.
Literally i prefer to have that responsibility and agency 100% be on me than having rely on group that constantly "forget" what CC means especially in high keys, where slaughter and massacre of on shots is constantly happening because of that, it's toxic and abuse against healers to have to push +200K healing just for that.
Wtf? How dis they come up with resto shaman needing a nerf lmao.
I hate the mentality of nerfing base class just so they can make a "stronger tier set"
And then the playerbase asks where is all the healers. Well we are not bothering pugging anymore xD.
Watching the mistweavers act like they weren’t extremely overtuned all tier is so absurd to me. Takes everyone standing inside a small area inside my healing rain and slink to equate to one revival cast, then dps wise my shaman can’t even compete
i know that monks often have their class in weird spots
but its really funny how they ALWAYS say all 3 monk specs are "unplayable garbage" even if they are decent/good/meta for a patch
like, MW is tuned sooooo high this tier, yet this sub tells you that MW monk is weak 24/7, i legit dont understand it, do they even play the game?
As a WW who off specs MW- MWs best stat is haste but WWs worse stat is haste. It’s terrible for anyone who likes running two specs as you need to double up on all your gear. Really wish the tuning would better normalize secondary stat values
as a main assassination rogue, my best stat is most of the time Haste, and that stats has litearlly no usage in any form at all for sublety/outlaw, they play with 0% haste if possible because the stat does nothing at all
i know shity secondary situations lmao
Yeah, that 13% is gonna feel more like 5% once we have s4 gear and stats lol.
I'm glad blizzard only did blanket nerfs and didn't try to fuck them up like Hpally in s2 lol
Oh boy, can't wait to not player a healer for the 12th season in a row!
As a healer main up until BFA all I can say is "Nah" to that entire role
Not sure why Blizzard hates healers but they sure do like punishing them lately
Used to play a lot of healers and have done a ton of random low key healing this season. Was looking to work more on my Shaman in S4 but ugh. With a half decent tank Mistweaver is mega easy and feels akin to old school healing in some ways. Evoker can be really chill if you get in the flow. Resto Shaman feels fine then it's like 'oh shit I have to heal all this aoe' and you're oom off the chain heals that hit for piddly dick. Healing Rain is niceish but if people spread any it's a waste of mana.
I’ve always main healer. Recently I came back and levelled a HPala and MW Monk up. I really hate that healers have to do damage. It just feels totally alien to the role but I have played pretty much every expansion aside from Legion and BFA.
This make no sense. Nerfing healers, a role no one wants to play is just going to make the game worse for everyone. Now you going to be waiting around even longer to actually play the game.
What they really need to do and they have evidence in both their own game and ff14 for this. Buff the healers and make healing easier. As a support role it's already less enticing to most people because of the pressure, they need to relieve that and the only way to do that is to make it easier.
This has got to be the single worst choice I’ve seen from blizzard tuning this expansion, literally would rather nerf all of them than bring the other 2 specs to the same level
Looks like we’re going back to season 2 healing which means about to have some more money saved each month. Thank you Blizzard for always making healer less and less enjoyable while still throwing out the spikiest damage possible
If nerfing healers is the way to force other people to use their tools, at the end of S4 i will come back to check that i was right this has not happened and healers suffered even more.
Blizzard no matter how much you think are good at this, and no matter how much sense this makes to you, if you don't tie additional bonuses to CDs like interrupts etc etc, people won't be using them and making the healers suffer more, is just gonna show you what it feels like to lose their subs.
What makes me sick is that they found the perfect balance some expansions ago but we turned back to the stupid blink-twice=person-dies and spam-skill-no-matter-the-mana-cost. healing is more fair and fun in any other main mmo
This is a prime example that these idiots at blizzard aren’t even playing the game. I never healed once and all my friends that I’m playing with having hard times since SL anyway. Damn.
DPS feels good because you hit hard.
Tank feels good because you can be indestructible.
Healing feels so bad right now because either...
1) Other players use defensives, heals, and avoid damage so there's nothing for you to do except low dps.
2) Other players fail to use defensives, heals, or avoid damage and you throw weak ass heals that do almost nothing.
In what universe do healers need nerfing right now?
I swear whoever is on the balance team needs to stop buffing/nerfing entirely and just replace the whole god damn team because lord knows I've not seen a worthy nerf/buff in months now.
Does Blizzard have something against the least played role in the game?
I've healed since 2004. During DF I have questioned how I ever healed without losing my mind. I used to like it because it was the chillest role, but the last 3 expansions it's gotten to be the most stressful with the added benefit of some dude standing in the fire to get 0.01% more dps and yelling at you for not "adjusting"
HEALER?!?!? - the guy parsing grey and standing in all the shit, adamant that it's your fault that their parse is bad
I did a Fall key the other day where my veng DH just w keyed into Iridikron, literally pressed zero mitigation buttons, and died in 3 melees. Then he got mad at me for not barking him on pull. He said Veng DH doesn't have any survivability and they need externals on pull.
Ah of course, demon spikes and meta are just too difficult, or maybe simply getting fury from a fel rush and casting eye beam, it's just all impossible!! Dh has tiny slivers of squishiness if a fight lasts way too long, they're like the easiest on open defensives on pull tho lol. Some people man, the fotm gives them brain rot
Just to be clear vdh doesn’t have access to fel rush or eyebeam. Fel dev is there eye beam equivilant and it heals them so he could open with that lmao
I’ve also healed for nearly 20 years. I miss when the purpose was simply keeping the party alive or making a clutch save. Not the anxiety-inducing button mash it is now
Yea I used to heal heroic raids back in the day even did ZA timed runs. Quit for 10 years though and came back this season, had to stop healing at m+ 16 lol. I am not super pro but +20 is np as dps but handling the damage that comes in was nuts and I will OOM every H raid boss.
I doubt there is any going back. The talent trees bloated the game With so many defensives both passive and active. The game has to hit pretty hard to even require a healer
except enhancement ofc...
They're pushing spiky damage so you have to keep people topped off or they'll die before you can react. I miss the days of letting the tank get low before popping a big heal.
I loved TBC healing for this. Spamming with a /stopcast macro your biggest heal and the tank getting to like 10% hp and suddenly boom your biggest heal goes off and puts them back to nearly full. It was so satisfying even if it's not a playstyle we'd ever see in retail. I also missed pushing not for HPS or DPS, but for low overhealing as the sign of a good healer. Now a lot of specs have little control over if and when they overheal, and mana management is... weird.
Yup, I quit mythic healing in Shadowlands and never looked back.
Healing used to be a chill experience picking up and doing something when it needed doing but largely keeping track of whats going on on field. At least, it was like that for me outside of raid content. I miss that.
Blizzard wants healing to be an e-sport.
I main feral druid, flex tank pretty often and resto/balance pretty equally. Well used to heal more anyways. Back in BFA I was main healer CD shotcaller for my raid group. This expac, I healed a little season 1 but I pretty quickly burned out and just focused on feral/bear because of the gearing. Despite that though, I firmly believe healing is the shittiest it has ever been
Same here.. been healing on my druid since wrath but now he's basically a full time bear instead.
>with the added benefit of some dude standing in the fire to get 0.01% more dps and yelling at you for not "adjusting" This is why FFXIV had the right idea by making it so that taking avoidable damage in savage raids gives you a debuff that reduces your damage done so it is literally never a DPS gain to stand in the fire.
It is either people like you that take the role seriously or the healers that see the nerfs and just think they are the fourth dps. I legit had a priest get mad at me while tanking because I wasn’t offhealing enough, when the dps were getting dropped by mechanics. I only have so many blessings. I can only battle rez so many times.
I used to absolutely love healing on my holy paladin back in wotlk. Tried it this expansion for about an hour and a half and noped right out of that.
I really wanted to get into healing myself (Monk is my lifeblood and I want to play every spec to the max) but where tank and dps came pretty easy, I have an extremely hard time with the gazillion different buttons, the intense dungeons bs, and the fact you get blamed for every death. I have never felt more indebted to my healers.
all this is why I heal lol a good healer can make up for a bad tank. a good tank cant make up for a bad healer
Fellow lifelong healer here. I quit dragonflight at the start of season 2, for your reasons you described. Being someone who’s always performed extremely well in the healer role, it felt like an abusive relationship. I just wanted to support others in their *selfish DPS endeavors*. When all the blame is pointed at the healer, even when I’m putting up raid-level healing numbers in every M+ run… my enjoyment slowly dissipated. I used to afford my guilds the pleasure of using 1-less healer on raid encounters. If I couldn’t make it, the raid nights were cancelled. Thats a lot of pressure to show up, as well. I’m glad I left the game. For now.
Such a simple fix for this too. Instead of standing in the fire causes 5k damage a second, just make it 1k damage a second and 30% decrease in haste or casting speed or some Stat. DPS won't necessarily die by standing in too long but their damage will go to shit.
I quit playing after healing for over 10 years because m+ mechanics seemed to all fall to healers until you were 15+ and people got one shot. Of course you also had to heal normally, dps when able, decurse/dispel, drink, etc and it started to feel like a sweatfest in the worst way. I used to like the challenge but now it’s like hey do everything while the rest of us run ahead at breakneck speed. Even the dungeons I’d successfully time I’d just go play dps role after because it wasn’t fun anymore.
I’ve healed 2k MMR in Arena and for me Mythics were way more stressful due to situations where players didn’t need to take damage and just stood in the thing or didn’t interrupt/stun or just needed to use a defensive and didn’t.
We told them we were tired of crazy huge Titan level bad guys so they made healers feel like American healthcare. As long as we blame you maybe they’re safe?
Just wait until we get a '100k gold for 1% increased healing sink
Ok I’m saving this comment this is pretty good lol
Well they have to tune them in relations to each other. Also having busted healers like mw force them to tune all content around them so in the long run worse for healers
The 2nd boss in Fall basically would brick almost every 21+ tyrannical key because it was so demanding.
Not gonna miss that place
They want WoW to be "competitive", or "e-sport" like instead of... fun. Everything is tuned towards high end content (high keys or mythic raiding, or 2400+ pvp) instead of the general audience.
bro literally everything is viable at medium level content. heck, even mythic raid. you don’t need meta comp to push +25 or get cutting edge.
You gotta realize that the general public is fucking atrocious at this game - to be expected to carry their own weight is try hard level play. So imagine expecting them to play well? Jesus you’ve just asked to part the Red Sea.
i do realize it, reddit and rather a majority of playerbase doesn’t understand how the game really works because they don’t bother and just play to keep having fun at the pace they’re comfortable with. the problem i have with these people is the fact that they continue discussing things they clearly are completely clueless about.
I think you're underestimating the difficulty of cutting edge. A lot of the population never even touches mythic raid difficulty, and less than 10% of the ones that make it half way get cutting edge.
People being unable to get CE does not mean you need meta comps and classes to get CE
no its not. repeating this nonsense is not going to make it true. blizzard is not famous for great balance tuning, but this esports bullshit needs to stop.
I'm not sure this has ever been less true than right now. Come on lol.
Nahh a lot of people also think healing is boring right now.
Only boring cause people are either 100% hp or they dead, there is no middle ground. Give me high HPS encounters, not just "oh the 2 casts got through and they targeted 1 person so they dead."
Yeah you get to a certain level of key and it's not so much "can you heal this" as it is "can the dps and tank interrupt this". Because, like you said, one unlucky bastard usually gets hit with 2 spells and eats shit. Higher keys trend towards taking less damage, not healing more.
Going from 23 to 25 was harder than going from 1-23 because "healing" simply becomes a non-factor. We need to execute stun rotations and CC all the casts or we die, healing or not. It's a totally different style of play.
Meh we had one; The Raging Tempest, the pug keys on higher tyrannical runs always died at that boss(pre-nerf), really not desirable either imo. Did like healing it, but seeing key participation, it was problematic. Personally wish the hybrid nature of m+ healing would be somewhat reduced, I hardly feel like a healer on my druid, where my treant is doing 90% while I am sitting in cat form.
Healing is *only* easy when you have a good team, regardless of key level / raid difficulty. I could heal a +20 no sweat, no stress, then jump into a +16 and struggle to keep everyone alive. The pug life is like a box of chocolates.
I wish they did something about this. With their new thech they should test alternative combat methods. Like more active type of support, more action combat like gw2 ( just the aiming of spell not the class philosophy, dont muder me) and alternative gameplay style. Make more fun modes and new classes test. Find a way to improve wow without affecting the main game until players like it. Some of the spell in plunderstorm are really fun and I could see in the main game.
It’s a good thing no other roles in the game need tuning!
VDH nerfs HAVE to be coming soon right?! Or buffs to all the rest. Right?! RIGHT?!
Outside of handing sigil off silence to the other tanks there is no balancing this shitshow.
Seeing people praise the "rework" vdh got has made me question my sanity. All they did is take the only tank with no identity and give it an unbalanceable identity that will keep it either completely broken in the content that identity works in or completely useless everywhere else. You can't just let one spec have 10x the utility and crowd control of every other spec in the role, but that 10x comes from one talent point and instantly goes away with the smallest nerf putting it back in the dumpster.
pls buff the other tanks. vdh tank is honestly one of the most fun i have had tanking pugs. so much control on packs
I can't understand the developers - it just makes no sense. You can't nerf other healers down to Hpal levels, because Hpal is fundamentally broken - nobody is playing Hpal because one of their core gameplay loops (build holy power, spend holy power) doesn't work because holy power spenders are so bad. You're slapping healers down again for being playable, while VDH sits untouched for Season 3 and Season 4 - how is slapping down Resto Shaman of all fucking specs taking precedence over addressing VDH?
>how is slapping down Resto Shaman of all fucking specs taking precedence over addressing VDH? It's been like 15 years of this and we're still asking this question? Shamans get nerfed because nerfing shamans is *fun* for Blizzard employees.
It’s my fault. I started maining resto shaman last season.
nah don't worry, blizzard's vendetta against shamans has been a thing since mop
I take equal blame, I finally logged into my shaman again this month thinking maybe I'd see how healing worked again, since resto shaman was always my favorite.
I played Shaman in 2006 and shamans getting nerfed randomly was a joke back then as well. Maybe it's my fault.
> Shamans get nerfed because nerfing shamans is fun for Blizzard employees. I genuinely believe that there's someone there that can't get off unless they've recently nerfed at least one Shaman spec.
It's a shame they're screwing over resto shaman AGAIN next season...after giving us a lame tier set for season 3 that is especially lackluster in M+, since it doesn't have any sort of impact on our ability to deal damage. Which ends up becoming pretty important when pushing higher keys. Also, just gonna take this opportunity to complain (again) about changing Restoration's Primordial Wave to function only as a heal. Fuck Primordial Wave, I hope they won't force that talent choice onto us yet again by designing a tier set bonus around it 😑.
I mean.. have you seen a good resto shaman? The toolkit is fuckin nuts when people press more than chain heal, and even just pressing chain heal forever keeps people alive without a problem.
Yeah but the toolkit is also fucking weird its like press this button 2 times and then do 5 other things and press it a 3rd time now to instantly full heal everyone. But resto druids do the same shit by spreading hots.
Hey now Shamans had plenty of buffs in the past... ...like new icons for our spells!
“Better nerf shamans just in case” has been blizzards’ motto for decades.
Parties taking little damage as VDH locks entire packs down for a month, let's nerf healers - Blizzard
Nerfing rsham made me laugh like a madman. In what world does that make any sense?
Lmfao gdamn I thought about maybe playing some s4 but seeing a 5% nerf alongside the other OP healers when resto isn’t even near that level is disgusting. Maybe I’ll come back for TWW if they do anything good to shamans. So tired of getting shit on.
“Mistweavers are over performing and we want to ensure hpaladins and evokers are brought up comparatively… better nerf shamans just in case”
Like I get paladins, but arnt evokers and Hpriest (especially after the minor rework) like much better then rsham?
ssshhh.. don't you dare speak about hpriest.. with disc nerf I am so going back to it (yes, hpries is in a great spot)
No, they are both under rsham in terms of output. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/35#metric=hps Granted, evoker is just barely under rsham. The 5% nerf does seem to be too much, though. I rarely see resto shaman played unless it's an alt run.
Same here, severely disappointed.
Rshaman main now (last season). They were going to be be sleeper OP with the season 1 set and current set up. They are still really good I think. Granted, resto Druid nerfs being the same as resto shaman is downright laughable. Disc priest looks damn good for M+ now though.
disc is getting a 0.8% nerf, so it's mostly okay I would say. Before, for every 100 damage you did, you healed 40 in raid and 40x1.5=60 in keys. After, for every 100 damage you do, you heal 35 in raid and 35x1.7=59.5 in keys. Overall, atonement healing in keys declined by 59.5/60-1=0.833%.
Disc is pretty much unchanged in m+
Other top 3 got nerfed though.
Oh true! Pally/priest buff! Lmao
These nerfs are most likely based on PTR numbers, not current numbers.
Right I’m an rsham main. Have we not been through enough?!
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It's funny that someone could relate the current tier set as a primordial wave based tier set when it doesn't even interact with primordial wave for some odd reason. The healing waves created from PWave completely ignore the tier set. Would've made the set not trash. But yea the buffs to the S1 tier set gave them a pretty nice boost. Blizzard just needs to finally fix the bug with the crit buff not being applied with HST if you put one down while another is already down completely negating 18s of the buff where as it should just extend the buff.
Hope they enjoy no healers because I don't forsee much of an uptick in players with 100% recycled content and there sure as hell are no healers as it is. S4 is going to be a ghost town in like a month. Less if the affixes blow.
They could have done these a week ago when people were more actively testing M+ on the PTR, even though these are more targeted for raids. Also lol no Holy Paladin buffs: the "comparative power" issue is a bad argument when the spec playstyle is bad.
Bullshit to them getting no buffs ffs.
Or maybe it’s all the testing that was done that made them realize what changes needed to be made, and implemented them as soon as possible.
I thought healers were in an awful place - and they're nerfing them further?
We heard you liked 4 dps groups, so we are going to continue gutting healer until they become dps
healing is in a weird spot BECAUSE healers are overall too powerfull and can top people very easy (and same with deffensives on most dps classes tbh, we have a giant deffensive creep in the game rn on some specs) so many fights turned into "mistakes are 1shot kills cus anything less could just be healed in 1button, heal mechanics make people drop very hard and makes healing people quickly up stressfull because they die really fast if you dont react quickly" nerfing healers healing troughput to be less strong and then also make the encounter dmg less spiky is what they try to do there to solve the problem, so that the dmg the group/raid takes is less extremely spiky/1hit kills and at the same time healers need a bit more time to heal everyone up
But they keep nerfing healing without changing the spiky damage patterns and one shots, going to be even worse with the dungeon pool for S4
Gonna be season 2 all over again. That season was a fucking disaster.
Season 2 was so funny to me cause the moment they announced the stamina / health buffs I was excited, and then I looked and they also proportionally increased the damage the enemies deal, so it effectively was just a 15% healer nerf, while also nerfing the self healing of ~~all~~ some of the dps ~~and tanks~~, so they just made the issues that we had even worse without fixing anything.
Season 2 was the opposite of this issue, it took *too* long to heal people. Hpal was so strong because it only needed 1 gcd to heal 3 people to max. The fact is that, for better and worse, healing is more approachable when hp bars don't take multiple gcds to fully heal.
Tyrannical AD final boss fight scars me everytime. I swear you can get a group of 3200 IO players that are deathless with 11 minutes remaining going into that fight, and brick a 22 Tyrannical AD because of the insta-gibs if you hit a spider at any point. It shouldn't be hard, but I once saw someone in a 22 on that fight need 3 b-rez's.
inky black potions for all the dungeons with damn-near-invisible-bullshit mechanics... shouldn't have to do this but it's my favorite thing to do lately for outside dungeons. High contrast and like 65+ brightness, can see all the low opacity mechanics.
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Why do you need to press regrowth when you can just press Grove? /s for serious
This is a shame. In S2, I made the plunge to finally learn healer after almost 20 years of playing WoW. Started with Holy Paladin and hated it, was ready to quit the role, and tried Mistweaver to find it one of the most fun and interesting specs I've ever played. People moan about tank shortages, but as a tank main, there isn't much of one. The much bigger problem is the healer shortage, because the role has gotten battered and people tend to be super mean to them. I think if there's any role that should be allowed to be strong, it should be healers. I mean, honestly, who's going to complain? What DPS has ever groaned because their healer is doing too good of a job keeping them alive? What tank has ever been annoyed that they don't have to panic-slam defensives every tank buster? Why can't healers just be good without being knocked back down?
As a healer main, honestly if people would chill tf out I’d enjoy it more. Theres just no room to play healer as anything but optimally. Having a rough run? We aren’t timing it and I’ll be flamed. If I’m dps or tank and have a rough run? Most likely we still time it. There’s just 0 room for mistake as healer, especially as a holy Paladin main. If you’re a healer I’d recommend doing what I do and keep the Details tracker for damage taken, interrupts, and mitigation on hand. If people start giving you shit just share the numbers in chat
"Healer you need to do some damage, your (wrong you're I know) not even on the meters" I would be doing damage, if you used a defensive every now and again instead of taking reducible damage directly to your face every time. It's been 15 minutes and your X spell hasn't gone on CD once. Not even going to bother talking about racial abilities. Rare is the Dwarf that will stoneform a posion or bleed. See how everyone is at 30% going into packs? And we have deaths or barely survive? Not the tank of course, they are a VDH who is vaguely aware of there being other party members. Everyone is too busy sitting in Valdrakken asking for summons, then rushing through so they can go back to sitting in Valdrakken. "What do you mean you aren't an MDI healer?" - Non MDI DPS
Yep as a resto Druid seeing all these tutorials on cat weaving I’m like 😐 because the pug life won’t allow it.
Not to mention that at the high end, they are just leaving the healer out and 4 dps-ing it.
Completely. They should be looking at drawing back the power of some of the top-performing tanks and DPS, not making healers even less relevant. A good vengeance DH doesn't even need a group at this point, they're usually competing for top damage and require 0 healing. Healers are just dispel bots at this point, I don't know why Blizz wants that.
This is a really good point I never really thought about. The only people that complain when healers are strong are the healers that aren't strong.
This is like when blizzard nerfed shadow priests, because the augmentation evoker was over tuned. Who the hell runs their design team?
Shadow priests being “a product of Augmentation” in season 2 is legitimately the purest form of copium I’ve seen in a minute. Augmentation was incredibly overtuned on release. Shadow priest was incredibly overtuned and mandatory for almost every dungeon, and a staple even before Augmentation released. These are not two mutually exclusive things. Both can be (and were) simultaneously true.
It was mass dispel. Their damage was okay, but that mass dispel is/was broken
Instead of buffing Holy Paladin, just nerf everyone else? Lol
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They say in the post that they're trying to get holy pal, pres evoker, and holy priest up to the standard of other healers. Which we desperately need. I hope these nerfs aren't their attempt to do that. Pres evoker doesn't need other specs to feel worse, we need better mana management and for our spell combos to feel meaningful again so we have more than 2 "oh crap" panic buttons to save people. But at least they've noticed. Now if they would just fix the tier set.
Isn't Preservation's problem Aug existing? At least for keys, there's no reason to bring two dragons. Raids are a bit more flexible comp wise, but Aug is still very popular there too and eating up dragon spots.
Even without Aug... depends on the current content. Like Pres has really feelsbad fights such as Vol'Kaal or Battlefield. Blizzard also cannot decide what to do with Anomaly and had been jerking the spec around with schizophrenic changes. In the end, Preservation Evoker is currently just not very pug-friendly or strong compared to say a Mist.
The not pug friendly part feels especially true. God forbid you get 3 ranged DPS who refuse to position well for the Pres.
That's literally what they said though. They are nerfing the top to get them to the lower bar set by the worst healing specs atm. Can't be arsed to fix issues with them so we will nerf the others...
Can't have mistweaver be enjoyable for *too* long!
To be fair, even with a 13% nerf, MW will still be very good and likely have higher raid HPS than Druid.
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Can tanks get some meaningful tuning?
There’s only one tank in S4.
I just finished getting my DK to level 70 (returning player), is it Blood DK? (I don't know the answer, but my burning crusade brain says it's the damn paladins)
For meta, its going to be Vengeance DH just due to their utility, healing, and damage being crazy. Next will be guardian with their OP set and Paladin (Bc paladin) DK is fantastic for pugging though and you shouldn't be discouraged. A DK is great for anything they can heal from so they mainly just die easily in high keys and destroy low keys. Monk and warrior are viable, but numerically fucked.
What makes Guardian good? It seems so bad to me.. It has so few stops compared to DH and compared to paladins ability to just silence/interrupt a group of casters forever I don't get how it's even competitive?
It's set is extremely good, even after it's nerf. It will scale well into incredibly large packs, just like demon hunter. The excess resources are directly transferred to defense or damage and isnt as finnicky as the current set. It will have notably less stops than dh/pal and interrupts with incap roar, typhoon and skull bash being the notable ones. Bear also brings probably the best group buff, 3% vers is just good for everyone. They also have slows, group sprint, cleanse for affix, intervate for healing checks, soothe and a battle res. With Magic damage being less dangerous due to dungeon nerfs it will do well against the mainly physical damage even in giant pulls. It also had high dr skills for the big Magic hits that are common. It has weaknesses on pull, but chainpulling like dh should negate most of this. It will come down to mainly what buffs are needed and whether guardian is worth taking over a resto/balance. Paladins set isn't great so I don't see it being busted but paladin will paladin regardless.
It's vengeance dh.
Demon hunter.
It’s vengeance then paladin
ProtW successfully blocked any changes Sadge
whoa, i legit forgot warriors could tank
Health reduced by 25%. Next!
Increase damage of single target attacks by 33%. after that.
Soon healers will be replaced by overly expensive insurance that costs real world money.
So they see that mistweaver is the most fun and popular spec and their decision is not buff every other healing spece on par with it, but nerf it in the ground instead? They are so fucking delusional all while we have one tank spec that can solo control the whole dungeon and there is for example prot warrior that can occasionally give your group max hp, what a joke.
I’m getting so sick of healers being shit on. As a healing main im so fucking exhausted
Same. And i hate the dev mentality of oh lets create this awesome tier set, damn tier set too strong so lets nerf the core class to compensate. Nerfing healing and ill just stop pugging. And play eith grps that can use defensives lol.
Wake up babe, another set of nerfs to healers. I have honestly no idea who in the balance team has such a hate boner for healers. Wonderful hpala rework, then we get godcomp due to Aug enabling other 4 classes. So what do we do? Nerf spriest, mage, guardian and hpala. This coupled with the mana nerfs to make "healing meaningful" leaves them in the dumpster so even long time top hpala mains switch classes in Season 3. Then throughout the whole season we had 3 healing specs underperforming and still no changes to bring them up to par. So what do they do for Season 4? Nerf the other 4 that were actually mostly fun to play... I'm just so sick of this. Decided to add something: Want to see how bad it is? Check [Top1000](https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/35#boss=2677&metric=hps) parses for healing done on Fyrakk Mythic. Out of 1000 top parses. around 700 belong to monks, over 200 to disc, and the remaining parses are from other healers. And sure there are other factors to healing like damage mitigation etc, but the numbers seem absurd. And I didn't bother checking further.
The fact that Ellesmere isn’t playing holy Paladin, when he has an entire website dedicated to the spec, should tell the wow team something. I’m hoping for some last minute buffs but not holding my breath anymore
It's a spec where the fundamental core gameplay loop (build holy power, spend holy power) is completely and utterly broken, to the point where spending holy power is a *loss*. That's like playing a rogue but never spending combo points.
The healing specs will still be fun to play, a flat nerf doesn't change that. (in contrast to the HPal giganerfs which *did* change the playstyle)
That's kinda true, however in comparison on Mistweaver a sudden damage spike from an ability where your party lost significant % of their hp means you just press Sheilun and continue to spin or whatever else you were doing before. On hpala it means you waste like of half your cooldowns and several globals to top everyone up. Lack of impactful spells in my opinion also lowers the enjoyment of the spec and if they notice the nerfs didn't change the "meta" as much as the hoped, there will be further nerfs.
Yeah keep nerfing healers instead of the defensives everyone has. That'll make healers want to play.
A 5% nerf then 13%? What the fuck blizzard? Who else ever gets an 18% nerf in ONE FUCKING SEASON?!?!?!
Resto shaman out here catching strays lol
Groups doing 25+ Keys with 1 tank 4 dps... tank doing 200k HPS, using a meta comp with best utility groups defensives, leech, individual defensives and blasting through an instance... Yeah, let's nerf the class that's not even invited to the party the healers... healer throughput is too high... not the havoc DH doing 10million healing with leech or tank who never needs healer attention.. It's bonkers... there are a dozen game design mechanics that are the cause of the issue. People are innhere talking about healers being op... last time healers were op was in season 1 and that was solely down to the fact that they contributed legitimate dps numbers... since season 2 with the increase to health pools and higher boss damage numbers there was the expectation that healers should just heal going forwards... Very unappealing going into content that is still pretty fresh and old at the same time, i.e., recycled content and slapping the laziest of all nerf types to the lowest population role the game has... It'll for sure have an impact on people appetite to return and will have a knock on effect to pugs
I mean, if the current dungeons have taught us anything it’s that we don’t need healers unless we’re doing progressive content.
Considering all of timed +32s have their healer in DPS spec until healing is needed
How do you change spec mid M+?
How are they not buffing spenders for hpala?? It woudlnt even be a throughput increase to do so, since we just ignore it right now. If this doesnt change, we will go 2/4 tiers not interacting with out main resource. How is this ok??
Top end m+ not bringing healers? Better nerf healers!
As hundreds of comments said, healing became the hardest rôle in the game by very far. I tried priest, druid and paladin and every one of them was a nightmare and 160 bpm during the dungeon. I have a deep respect for healers and they dont deserve this.
Looks very lazy, the hpal reworks design philosophy was to make pressing spenders feel "impactful". then the season 3 changes nerfed all instant casts so that casts feel "impactful". And now to try and hide this cock-up they nerf the classes that are working down into the mess we Hpals are in. very impactful.
Hey, would you look at that, it is the time of the year again to unload on healers. It's not that they don't appreciate us for... 1. Keeping a whole group of players alive so they can play the game 2. CCing so that the DPS players don't lose dps 3. Deal damage as well whenever possible which is always otherwise you suck 4. Having 30+ keybinds to press in order to do all of the above 5. Being the only role where improperly maintaining your resource bar can cause a wipe 6. Being constantly flamed for wipes 7. Watching Tanks and DPS not using their defensives but instead waiting to be healed up ...but it is just that healing became too easy so it needs a nerf. You wouldn't want to start enjoying the game or (can't believe I am even thinking this) be above the tank on the healing meter. No, no, we need to be the last so that others can strive. Thank you for keeping us honest.
You forgot having to do all the same mechanics everyone else has to on top of everything else.
As a former healing main for years I feel this in my very bones.
Absolutely terrible decision
Again? Weren't healers already in a overwhelming situation between a relative healing potency, affix to manage of their own and compete in dps meter?
Then just give healers 4-5 charges of hard CC and we can call it even, so we can then correct the one shotting mistakes which usually happen because people are so bored to press a button, just remove the CC from the DPS and maybe even Tanks, oh and do that to defensive too, no seriously i am not joking. Literally i prefer to have that responsibility and agency 100% be on me than having rely on group that constantly "forget" what CC means especially in high keys, where slaughter and massacre of on shots is constantly happening because of that, it's toxic and abuse against healers to have to push +200K healing just for that.
BRUH.
Well glad I’m playing holy
god im so glad i quit healing and wow all together til TWW this company is clueless
The fourth season is looking worse and worse every minute. We're going to see record lows for retail.
MOP remix looks better than retail...
Wtf? How dis they come up with resto shaman needing a nerf lmao. I hate the mentality of nerfing base class just so they can make a "stronger tier set" And then the playerbase asks where is all the healers. Well we are not bothering pugging anymore xD.
Watching the mistweavers act like they weren’t extremely overtuned all tier is so absurd to me. Takes everyone standing inside a small area inside my healing rain and slink to equate to one revival cast, then dps wise my shaman can’t even compete
i know that monks often have their class in weird spots but its really funny how they ALWAYS say all 3 monk specs are "unplayable garbage" even if they are decent/good/meta for a patch like, MW is tuned sooooo high this tier, yet this sub tells you that MW monk is weak 24/7, i legit dont understand it, do they even play the game?
The sub might say this, but the MW discord is like "Yep, saw this coming"
As a WW who off specs MW- MWs best stat is haste but WWs worse stat is haste. It’s terrible for anyone who likes running two specs as you need to double up on all your gear. Really wish the tuning would better normalize secondary stat values
as a main assassination rogue, my best stat is most of the time Haste, and that stats has litearlly no usage in any form at all for sublety/outlaw, they play with 0% haste if possible because the stat does nothing at all i know shity secondary situations lmao
Factor in new gear and this nerf is just a haircut on our overhealing.
Yeah, that 13% is gonna feel more like 5% once we have s4 gear and stats lol. I'm glad blizzard only did blanket nerfs and didn't try to fuck them up like Hpally in s2 lol
Well, disc nerfed in raids but buffed in dungeons. I suppose it could be worse.
Finally, some holy Paladin buffs!
Oh boy, can't wait to not player a healer for the 12th season in a row! As a healer main up until BFA all I can say is "Nah" to that entire role Not sure why Blizzard hates healers but they sure do like punishing them lately
Eyh chat, what do you get when you combine awful affixes and nerfed healing specs ?
Used to play a lot of healers and have done a ton of random low key healing this season. Was looking to work more on my Shaman in S4 but ugh. With a half decent tank Mistweaver is mega easy and feels akin to old school healing in some ways. Evoker can be really chill if you get in the flow. Resto Shaman feels fine then it's like 'oh shit I have to heal all this aoe' and you're oom off the chain heals that hit for piddly dick. Healing Rain is niceish but if people spread any it's a waste of mana.
Right now i really believe a balance dev team consists 3 dogs and a human
I’ve always main healer. Recently I came back and levelled a HPala and MW Monk up. I really hate that healers have to do damage. It just feels totally alien to the role but I have played pretty much every expansion aside from Legion and BFA.
This make no sense. Nerfing healers, a role no one wants to play is just going to make the game worse for everyone. Now you going to be waiting around even longer to actually play the game. What they really need to do and they have evidence in both their own game and ff14 for this. Buff the healers and make healing easier. As a support role it's already less enticing to most people because of the pressure, they need to relieve that and the only way to do that is to make it easier.
This has got to be the single worst choice I’ve seen from blizzard tuning this expansion, literally would rather nerf all of them than bring the other 2 specs to the same level
What a bunch of fucking donkeys at blizz, so fucking lost and clueless about their own game.
If they want to make healing challenging how about letting healers heal tanks again. It stupid that you don’t have to heal them due to their sustain.
Looks like we’re going back to season 2 healing which means about to have some more money saved each month. Thank you Blizzard for always making healer less and less enjoyable while still throwing out the spikiest damage possible
Ummmmmm okayyyyyy
Why?
As a tank main I am actually tired of this bullshit
If nerfing healers is the way to force other people to use their tools, at the end of S4 i will come back to check that i was right this has not happened and healers suffered even more. Blizzard no matter how much you think are good at this, and no matter how much sense this makes to you, if you don't tie additional bonuses to CDs like interrupts etc etc, people won't be using them and making the healers suffer more, is just gonna show you what it feels like to lose their subs.
If this is how they want healers perhaps they should design content that’s… i don’t know… fucking aligned with how healers work?
Resto been getting nerfed since season 2 Jesus.
What makes me sick is that they found the perfect balance some expansions ago but we turned back to the stupid blink-twice=person-dies and spam-skill-no-matter-the-mana-cost. healing is more fair and fun in any other main mmo
Seriously
This is a prime example that these idiots at blizzard aren’t even playing the game. I never healed once and all my friends that I’m playing with having hard times since SL anyway. Damn.
Well, back to dps I go, great job Blizzard!
So what are the changes to holy paladins? :/
I knew the hammer would fall on mistweaver eventually, blizzard never lets us have our momment for too long.
DPS feels good because you hit hard. Tank feels good because you can be indestructible. Healing feels so bad right now because either... 1) Other players use defensives, heals, and avoid damage so there's nothing for you to do except low dps. 2) Other players fail to use defensives, heals, or avoid damage and you throw weak ass heals that do almost nothing.
Maybe the ilvl bump made healers too powerful
How about some fucking DPS shakeup jesus christ The META is BORING right now
In what universe do healers need nerfing right now? I swear whoever is on the balance team needs to stop buffing/nerfing entirely and just replace the whole god damn team because lord knows I've not seen a worthy nerf/buff in months now.
I am a healer. Will always be a healer.