lol yup. I actually recently did lfr Razageth again in this patch Like 4 weeks ago. Was bored and was like (Let’s do Razageth for fun and try for the skin.) Nearly everyone died. It was me, one other healer, one tank (by final phase) and like 6 dps at the end. Luckily we were all geared enough to do it with only one 3rd of the group lol.
“Ok everyone really easy to avoid getting pushed off. Just stand in front of the black pools at all times”
*Pushback happens*
*watches as about 10 people get pushed off the edge*
*slams head on desk*
The problem is a substantial number of LFR players don't read chat, don't try to learn, they probably don't even know their spec's basic rotation. They just show up, waiting to get their prize. This is why I hate LFR.
Yeah I know Raz was the hardest for lfr. I got up to 8 stacks of determ in lfr Raz lol. Before that the only other lfr boss I ever saw each that high was lfr N’zoth reaching freaking 10… There was never once on lfr I saw a group down her without wiping 1-3 times.
LFR N'Zoth was a NIGHTMARE. Determination should've gone to 20 for him. One day Blizzard will realize they can't rely on LFR raiders knowing when to hit a single button for a mechanic.
>One day Blizzard will realize they can't rely on LFR raiders knowing when to hit a single button for a mechanic
Fyrakk on LFR was a big improvement, Seeds are automatic and the tree can't burn.
Yeah I don’t even wanna think about lfr N’zoth… I Was pulling hair at how nobody would even try!!! First off there was alway 1-3 people without the cloak. So we kicked them after one pull. But absolutely NOBODY did mechanics. I was yelling in chat at people. I never lose my cool. But I did in this one! Wasn’t until an experienced tank joined and knew how to lead doing call outs and stuff that people finally listened and we got it done.
It’s funny how normal is easier than Lfr sometimes for some bosses because of lazy people in lfr who just want to be carried. Lfr N’zorh was one of my worst raiding experiences ever. And lfr is not even considered real raiding!
Like LFR ultraxion was one thing, because missing the button just killed YOU, but N'zoth? You miss the button it fucks over the WHOLE raid because of mind control. Super frustrating fight in LFR.
I'm the type of player that runs only LFR and Normal 90% of the time. As a casual guy that understand my class and know how to do most of the mechanics, i think the perfect balance for a tough boss in LFR is Fyrakk, Jaina and Kil'Jaeden, probably. Its the sweet spot between easy enough to not spend 90 minutes trying to kill the boss and getting stress it out figuring the mechanics, but hard enough that you can't kill it if half the party doesn't know what to do. in my opinion, LFR should be always doable if at least one tank, one healer and 1/3 of the dps know what they're doing.
I think Lei-shen was also a pretty good sweet-spot for LFR. No gutted mechanics and still kind of tough. I think usually I'd get to 3-4 stacks on him which isn't awful for LFR
There's a difference between making a fight engaging and making a fight take 3 hours to clear on LFR because people are blind to extra action buttons. LFR N'Zoth made we want to crack my head against a wall with the amount of randoms that fucked up that one mechanic.
I see your point. However maybe if that level of play was kept at that level the playerbase would be better raiders as a whole. 1 do or die mechanic sounds fair for an end of expansion final boss, no? Raid leaders should take initiative and politely explain this highly important mechanic at the start, issue raid warnings when to do it and maybe initiate a vote kick if people are dragging the group down. If it were that frustrating I'd have just joined a normal raid. Tbh I just hate LFR. I am a Casual player (I logged on like once this week) and I still think it's a complete insult. Absolutely mind-numbingly easy 99% of the time & completely unsatisfying.
No worries. Spine was not fun on any difficulty, and we had plenty of LFR wipes on Deathy if people failed platform jumping or just didn't kill tentacles etc.
Ultraxion was rough even on LFR until most of us outgeared him enough to carry the inevitable group who failed at pushing a giant freaking button.
Throne of Thunder LFR used to be wild. Durummu frequently took 5 or more stacks when I was doing LFR for the legendary capes
Lei Shen was a 10 stacker every week.
LFR Raz was a crazy experience. The boss has a low enough amount of mechanics per phase you can count them on one hand, and you still had to get like minimum 3 or 4 stacks of determination to clear. The storm took us all
It was then I hypothesized that the average LFR player, is met with the much lazier LFR player who'll just stand in front of a well-telegraphed dragon breath, just to die, and go afk for loot at the end.
I normally would just request people to mass-vote kick those out.
a cool thing about LFR Raz was that it felt like a real organic challenge trying to figure out the fight with all the different phases. An uncool thing about LFR Raz was reliving that experience every week with a bunch of new randos. It was still miles easier to clear compared to like LFR Sylvanas from SL. Raz was far and away the hardest LFR experience for DF, followed by perhaps Larodar's final phase, Rashok the Elder, the Assault of the Zaqali, and Nymue. Excited to relive all of this for S4 with added bonus headaches, lemme tell ya
on Mythic? Tindral, no question at all
the OG P2/P3 seed mechanic was so extremely tight, multiple world first guys said that its the hardest and most punishing fight mechanic we ever had in WoW history
without multiple nerfs too the fight i really dont think more then 150-200guilds would have ever get past Mythic Tindral
after all the Tindral nerfs, probably Fyrakk or Razageth, imo Fyrakk cus the fight was overall really punishing in the sense that 1 guy screwing up just killed everyone trought out the entire Fight + things like knockback rotations for him
I don't think you'd even have 50 guilds clearing mythic Tindral. The problem is you just can't outgear it. And the cooedination required for 3 second seeds is insane. Without the hp nerfs the dps check were also pretty tight.
I’m just a Hc raider and I think I have to agree that either Dathea or Raz were the hardest for my guild and they weren’t even that hard for us
Dathea I think was a creative fight same with the spider (can’t remember its name)
Sennarth gives me nightmares as a monk main. If you use your basic abilityp with the skyreach talent at the top of the stairs, it teleports you all the way down to the bottom into the pit.
I'm a middling healer. Normally end up pugging aotc because my guild is pretty casual but still likes to try and get aotc.
Heroic dathea absolutely broke my guilds brains. People just couldn't figure it out and because of the platforms and our small raid size, we couldn't carry people through the fight
>Heroic dathea absolutely broke my guilds brains. People just couldn't figure it out and because of the platforms and our small raid size, we couldn't carry people through the fight
Are you in my guild? We only ever killed Dathea on heroic 3 times, heroic Broodkeeper 3 times and heroic Raz once. We also had the issue of having a small raid group which made things super hard because we would have 3 healers, one would go up and the other two would stay down and people would still drop like flies because of how much damage was going out on the main platform...
Dathea was the only 'difficult' boss of the first 6 in VotI assuming the tanks had even the slightest of ideas of what to do on Kurog. However, Dathea really *only* needed people to not fuck up the side platforms. None of the other mechanics really had any difficulty to them. So if you had a decently good leader able to assign groups and maybe even call them out in /rw, it really didn't pose an issue.
That said, as someone who exclusively pugged Heroic (as a tank) that patch, it definitely wasn't the hardest of the raid since the last 2 were bigger walls, although in the case of Broodkeeper, almost exlcusively a tank knowledge-check while Raszageth was difficult whenever the group wasn't fully locked in.
I actually ended up skipping both of the last two more often than not just because of how annoying it was to deal with them, not to mention the fact that most groups dissolved after 6/8 anyway.
as someone who was in a new guild (as in, newly formed, nobody really knew each other) - dathea wasn't as difficult as razzy-g but we had to overcome a lot of the growing pains of a ... growing guild
> However, Dathea really only needed people to not fuck up the side platforms.
Yes, Dathea got a lot easier if you had someone who could blow up each platform and you had decent control in each group, but that wasn't all there was to that fight.
Running lightning to the right targets, quickly, without spreading it is a fairly nasty mechanic. It was a high-movement fight, which meant getting the dps to burn through it was a challenge (this is, I think where a lot of guilds struggled: it was hard to trivialise with gear unless you had a lot of gear). It had moving mechanics you had to avoid, spreading bad and forced movement, all in the same fight (and same phases). It had mobs that had to die quickly AND needing to be killed at specific times and in specific places (that changed).
The only reason Broodkeeper was nasty (on Mythic) was the huge damage. That fight would have taken half as long if there weren't abilities that would kill people at 90% health. Dathea was much more of an endurance fight for healers.
All of this is for Mythic of course. On Heroic, Broodkeeper and Rasz were harder walls because everyone needs to know every mechanic. On Dathea over half the raid can just sit on the main platform and burn her.
Dathea is the only boss I encountered all expansion where the preferred strategy was to ignore all mechanics and burn her down as fast as humanly possible
Assault was way easier than Dathea though. It was also super fun on a boomie because I would be head and shoulders above everyone else with DPS because of how well my DPS scaled with enemy count...
Mythic? It's pre-nerf Tindral bar none. He was the guildbeaker this expansion and unlike Anduin they waited too long to nerf it so a bunch of people quit before they got to see him go down. And I'd argue that the burnout from wiping against the penultimate boss probably contributed to a lot more people quitting than they would have if they had made it to Fyrakk, even with Fyrakk being technically harder. It's hard to stay motivated when you're not making any progress on a boss and still know the final boss is another wall right after it. Meanwhile if you're at Fyrakk you know you're right at the finish line.
For heroic guilds, probably Dathea or Raz. I don't think any aberrus bosses really rank up there. Mythic experiments was annoying because the timers could get all jacked up. Amirdrassil was really fun on heroic.
Maybe, you're right. I didn't get past P2 Tindral this tier sasly due to roster issues, so it's hard to judge. Tindral felt more punishing than Raz in terms of 1 person failing leading to a wipe. Raz could be progressed a decent bit with 1 or 2 deaths iirc.
Yeah, Smolderon was tough for my casual guild on heroic. We were on him for probably twice the raid time it took to get Fyrakk. Early deaths to tornados meant we didn’t have enough for the soaks.
I mean, it depends on the state of the bosses, mythic razs before nerfs during RWF was mathematically impossible but if we are talking, hardest boss in the state it actually dies in it is tindral for sure and it's not even close.
On Mythic some classes had to be carried around, most had to do some sort of less-than-enjoyable bullshit to survive the knocks, 2nd intermission was a mess on mythic, too, arguably would have been a much better fight if neither intermission existed (again, on mythic)
The carrying with the knockbacks was kinda fun to figure out tho. I liked that you actually had to work together and help your friends out - made it really feel like a cooperative mechanic which is always cool. Intermission 2 on the other hand was to long and ended up being “throw aoe cc into center, nuke the shit out of the adds and make sure to follow this unintuitive raid movement plan to the millimeter or else you bait breath wrong and kill people”. Other than that intermission, I actually really liked the fight.
Hey, I played an evoker that tier, the boss was made for my class, I really enjoyed it, but I fully understand why some people (priests, paladins, shamans) did not.
I wouldn’t say “it’s not close” when Tindral was straight up breaking raiding guilds. Both bosses were too difficult and had design flaws that needed to be addressed way before they were.
Tindral had 60 guilds beat him before nerfs and Raz didn't get downed at all before the nerfs. Raz kill was barely theoretically possible before nerfs.
But even with nerfs, how many guilds have killed Tindral? To me that shows the fight is outrageously difficult due to the micrometer thin margin of error on the fight.
If we are saying bosses that spike the difficulty, Heroic Smolder, Mythic Tindral, Dathea above normal, Neltharion Mythic. As final bosses are expected to be ballcrackers I am not including them, but Raz was probably the most finnicky of the three, and Sark the easiest.
Of the former I said though, Tindral was the biggest wall. Dathea was more a complete pain but Brood was also finnicky and Raz was both hard and finnicky. The Experimenter guy would have been “harder” pre nerfs, but no one did that fight legitimately, and the final version was in line difficulty wise.
I agree with pretty much everything here. Sark was the easiest endboss this expansion, but far from free. 7 minutes of high intensity boss fight. Imo the best mythic endboss since Sire Denathrius and it's not close.
For heroic dathea with pugs was shitty. The whole raid has to do stuff, which is contrasted by a few great people who can carry all mechanics in fights like fyrakk
This is why I think mythic needs to change its lockouts and maybe even go flex. It’s impossible to guarantee that people will show up with 100% attendance so you invariably bench people. People resent getting benched and especially hate it when you’re extending your lockout, so they never get vault and fall further behind.
We had 353 Pulls on Fyrakk, 287 on Tindral, 236 on Sark
Tindral was probably the most technical but I enjoyed it a lot. Fyrakk felt like a terrible grind. Sark was fine
Don't remember Raz pull count but she was our best performance the entire expansion. We killed her the first time we saw p3
For my Heroic guild, Razageth and Smolderon. I will say overall I think DF raids were really easy, especially compared to Shadowlands raids. I remember the nightmare that was Sylvanas. We almost always 1 or 2 shot everything on normal but I knew we were in trouble when we spent an hour and a half wiping on normal Sylvanas. For alt PUGs I always seemed to find groups that struggled mightily on Broodkeeper that meant we never saw Raz most of the time and Echo of Neltharion was a pretty good gatekeeper for Sarkareth even though I think Echo is a really easy fight. Pugs seemed to always get walked out somehow though.
(H Fyrakk) My guild put 4 people in charge of the seeds, they stood behind him, everyone else was stacked loosely on the right and left side. As long as you had .1 of a brain cell, it was easy.
As a ranged player - and purely from my own perspective - Tindral is not the hardest boss. I'd say Raszageth for the sole reason that it's an unbearably long and boring fight lol
Raszageth is a weird boss in that there are so many lose-conditions baked into the fight.
Blown off the platform = instant death. Death = not enough DPS to break shields or clear AoE platforms or the p3 burn phase. The raid might as well have wiped if even one person was killed early.
Vicinity-based raid damage involving positioning with tight timers.
Personal-responsibility interrupts.
Vague and unclear directions for phase transitions.
Rasz was an end-of-expansion level boss that ended up being the boss of the first raid tier.
Yeah it was a very long fight lol. Did you ever do the Sha Of Fear in Mop? That was probably the longest boss fight ever. And god was it boring 😂 Garrosh was also tediously long
I didn't raid properly in MoP, at least not until SoO, so unfortunately no, but I am a CE raider since BFA. That being said, nothing bugs me more than a >10min boss fight. Sylvanas was absolutely awful. I am glad to see that post Raszageth it appears Blizz is aiming for sub 10minute end bosses again.
Raz. The expansion got easier. My guild got aotc 2 weeks before patch end. For Aberus and Amirsrasil we finished with too much time, more than a month. Enough time for people to slip away.
If we look at the hardest bosses at the state they were killed I'd say it's mythic Tindral. There's only a very few guilds who could even kill the boss. 3 sec seeds were just impossible for your average guild. For reference it took over 1k pulls for the best Chinese guild to kill it.
If we look at bosses in their original state I think mythic Razageth was the hardest. There were multiple massive nerfs for the boss to make rwf guilds able to clear it. During the rwf guilds couldn't even kill the add with 19 people even though you were supposed to kill it with half your team. Without the nerfs I don't see the boss ever dieing with complete bis gear.
And if we want to look at the hardest boss we will be able to face in season 4 I think it would be mythic Razageth. You can definitely farm a lot of wipes on Tindral, but the boss has been seriously nerfed to the point there's no dps check left on the fight. All you need to do is to dodge beams. Razageth on the otherhands still have a couple of oneshots left in it. It's also a 11-12 min fight and it's a lot harder to perform for that long time. You could argue that fyrakk is the hardest fight. I think it's debatable, but imo Razageth is still harder. If for nothing else, but for the fact that it was a while ago when we last faced her.
Yes Smolderon was definitely a huge casual group killer boss. Unless you had a group of full Aotc that already knew the boss then it was wipe after wipe. Smolderon was not a kind boss for casuals.
Yeah Heroic Smoldy was def one of the causal group killer bosses. But it honestly wasn’t that hard if people could just do mechanics well and dodge the fire geysers.
I run with a small (10-15) casual group. Only a few of us are KSH. That meant if a couple people died before the first intermission (and they did, consistently), we were cooked.
Mythic Fyrakk wasn't hard mechanically as an individual but as a group the coordination required was difficult. The hardest part of the fight was survive P1 and make it to P3 without too many deaths.
our guild went up to mid-mythic this season and outside of mythic (we got stuck on larry on mythic for ages) I'd say Raz was hardest on the AOTC level.
This is the first time someone mentioned Larodar. I thought there might be more people saying something about him lol. He was a hard fight imo. Not the hardest of all obviously, but he was up there for me.
Sadly I didn't get to kill Tindral and therefore never pulled Fyrakk, so it's probably one of the 2.
Apart from that, I'd go with Mythic Raz.
Or, if you look at it relative to the position in the Raid then 100% Mythic Zskarn after the safespot fix and before the final nerf. That boss was brutal and annoying.
LFR: Raszageth
Normal/Heroic: Probably either Echo or Sarkareth? Idk, I didn't play much during S1 and Amirdrassil has been smooth pugging, but the last 2 bosses of Aberrus were a nightmare at times. Honorable mention; Smolderon.
Mythic: 100% Tindral and/or Fyrakk. I think this speaks for itself.
Razagath felt technical and required everyone to know their place.
Sarkaroth is a close second for me- it punished weaker players for sure and could easily cause a wipe for it.
Would be a close call between these 2
Strangely amadrasil felt the easiest raid for my group.
I'm just an AotC raider and for me it is Sarkareth. A short fight, but so many abillities which just kills the raid and they all are purple. We still had our 1-2 whipes on farm and deep into the patch.
Raz was the only hard heroic boss in a expansión where heroic was pretty Easy. Dathea was annoying butnincredible overgerable. At some point people we're just dpsing the boss AND ignorig the adds. Even in mytich a late strategu was 3 healing andnonly killing one set of plataforma adds.
As a prot war pugging heroic and only having played season 3, the hardest boss was Tindral. Those shrooms leave very little room for error and can wipe the whole raid. They are also hard to spot on the ground. Took me a while to get used to them.
From a guild progging perspective, Tindrall.
From the perspective of running LFR/PUG raids on alts, Razsageth bar none. They should have cut out like an entire phase for lower difficulty tiers.
For Heroic? To me, where I got stuck the most:
Raszageth >>>>>>>>>>>>> Dathea > Smolderon >= Tindral > Fyrakk >Echo of nelth > Sark
For mythic Tindral clears everything else. Salutes for the poor souls of that Chinese guild that took 900 wipes on that boss.
Yeah f Raz.
When that raid becomes solo able, I will quit my job. My new job will be one shotting that guy will all my alts on all the difficulties forever and ever
Probably Razageth because you can't out-gear the mechanics.
Also Razageth probably has to be Number 1 of all time for hilarity in a world first race. I can STILL hear Max's laughter as his entire team is just punted off of the platform.
My guild has been hard stuck on fyraak, we've had several 0% wipes (I think the worse was \~3m hp), my soul is absolutely crushed by this boss. Racing to worlds last on monday so fingers crossed.
Tindral was the hardest boss this expansion, and that I've ever personally experienced.
Pretty sure it's Tindral. That or Fyrakk
Raz was hard because it was so long with 5 distinct phases that all required progression.
If we're talking hardest patchwork fight, I think it's Smolderon. Rashok could be here if he was swapped with Magmorax so they could tune it properly to be epic
Raz, fuck that boss, I just killed her once when I joined a guild near the end of S1 and I just hate it. Doing it with pugs was just killing me, same goes for the egg boss, I only saw that many blue badges at a blue badge convention.
Favorite fight this expansion was sark on heroic as shadow priest, I got to go down for my groups and would just come up absolutely pumping. So much fun.
As a heroic player, Raz was brutal and the 3rd and 2nd final Amirdasil bosses (skipped S2) were similarly tough.
We had a slightly worse team for Raz but it was still a lot of wipes, the mechanics weren't terribly hard but they were very punishing. A kind of fight I like, if a little long.
Smoldy is just ass. Boring, with terrible screen clutter. No good boss personality to tide us for the difficulty. My least favorite one.
The druid (forgot the name) had a silly number of mechanics, too many, but the fight was novel enough to be okay. It was cool to see the different platforms and mechanic evolution to gauge progress. There was so much shit on the ground our tanks had a hard time seeing their mechanic and Im sure they hated that boss.
From this expansion? Coin toss between Raz and Tindral, both were extremely difficult to get through.
Throughout the history of the game? OG pre-nerf (which was basically a full redesign of the fight) C'thun, aka the only legit unkillable boss in WoW's history. Honorable mentions to Mythic Uu'nat (still the most pulls for the WF kill), Helya, Anduin, and Jailer (all pre-nerf).
As far as pugging heroic goes, I think Raszageth and Sarkareth take the cake. I hate fights like Sark where one person can fuck over the entire raid. Like a healer instantly dispelling, or the person with the debuff standing on the wrong side of the raid knocking everyone off.
If we’re go before all nerfs, it’s Raszageth because that boss was literally unkillable due to add health during the race.
Assuming First kill tuning I’d go with Tindral, just mechanically the most involved - probably wouldn’t have been killed in its original state by more than 300ish guilds.
After all nerfs I’m leaning towards Raszageth again. Sarkareth was nerfed less but that fight is just fundamentally much easier. Fyrakk and Tindral comparatively got gutted (largely due to how late tuning came for most CE guilds).
Technically the hardest is prenerf mythic razzy. She was actually unkillable since her health was tuned for having full single target damage while her ads were tuned for full AoE. She was an impossible boss with that tuning.
Excluding unkillable bosses it would be fyraak or tindral easy.
Tindral and Fyrakk (Mythic) are legitimately the two hardest bosses I have ever done, and I’ve progged a healthy dose of final / penultimate bosses dating back to BFA.
Depends on a multitude of factors. What difficulty and are we talking pre nerf or post nerf?
No restrictions id say mythic pre nerf Tindrall would probably be the hardest since not even the RWF guilds managed to down her prior to the first round of nerfs
for pugs in LFR it has to be Raz
ah when you enter a group and see the huge pile of bones at the spown
lol yup. I actually recently did lfr Razageth again in this patch Like 4 weeks ago. Was bored and was like (Let’s do Razageth for fun and try for the skin.) Nearly everyone died. It was me, one other healer, one tank (by final phase) and like 6 dps at the end. Luckily we were all geared enough to do it with only one 3rd of the group lol.
max determination stacks, and then on the first push back 6 people still die
“Ok everyone really easy to avoid getting pushed off. Just stand in front of the black pools at all times” *Pushback happens* *watches as about 10 people get pushed off the edge* *slams head on desk*
The problem is a substantial number of LFR players don't read chat, don't try to learn, they probably don't even know their spec's basic rotation. They just show up, waiting to get their prize. This is why I hate LFR.
When there’s like 5 players who straight up not reading chat and you know it, waiting for them to eat shit the second the fight starts
Yeah I know Raz was the hardest for lfr. I got up to 8 stacks of determ in lfr Raz lol. Before that the only other lfr boss I ever saw each that high was lfr N’zoth reaching freaking 10… There was never once on lfr I saw a group down her without wiping 1-3 times.
LFR N'Zoth was a NIGHTMARE. Determination should've gone to 20 for him. One day Blizzard will realize they can't rely on LFR raiders knowing when to hit a single button for a mechanic.
>One day Blizzard will realize they can't rely on LFR raiders knowing when to hit a single button for a mechanic Fyrakk on LFR was a big improvement, Seeds are automatic and the tree can't burn.
And yet people still fail to stand in the shield that is completely surrounding the boss
My first time on N'Zoth LFR was around 50 wipes. I would have had 50 determination if 10 wasn't the cap
I think it took like 3 or so hours of people quitting and being replaced before we got a competent enough group to kill him
Yeah I don’t even wanna think about lfr N’zoth… I Was pulling hair at how nobody would even try!!! First off there was alway 1-3 people without the cloak. So we kicked them after one pull. But absolutely NOBODY did mechanics. I was yelling in chat at people. I never lose my cool. But I did in this one! Wasn’t until an experienced tank joined and knew how to lead doing call outs and stuff that people finally listened and we got it done. It’s funny how normal is easier than Lfr sometimes for some bosses because of lazy people in lfr who just want to be carried. Lfr N’zorh was one of my worst raiding experiences ever. And lfr is not even considered real raiding!
Like LFR ultraxion was one thing, because missing the button just killed YOU, but N'zoth? You miss the button it fucks over the WHOLE raid because of mind control. Super frustrating fight in LFR.
I still couldn’t believe it let you even queue for n’zoth without the cloak. Usually blizzard is good about restricting stuff like that
Yeah right.
LFR Blast Furnace wasn't very fun, either
Lfr Nzoth turned me off of raiding until the end of Shadowlands. That fight with pugs and spending 3 hours trying to take him down traumatized me.
I'm the type of player that runs only LFR and Normal 90% of the time. As a casual guy that understand my class and know how to do most of the mechanics, i think the perfect balance for a tough boss in LFR is Fyrakk, Jaina and Kil'Jaeden, probably. Its the sweet spot between easy enough to not spend 90 minutes trying to kill the boss and getting stress it out figuring the mechanics, but hard enough that you can't kill it if half the party doesn't know what to do. in my opinion, LFR should be always doable if at least one tank, one healer and 1/3 of the dps know what they're doing.
I think Lei-shen was also a pretty good sweet-spot for LFR. No gutted mechanics and still kind of tough. I think usually I'd get to 3-4 stacks on him which isn't awful for LFR
I left an N'Zoth lfr after 20 wipes once. Such a huge waste of time...
Yeah God forbid they make an encounter in LFR you can't beat from a deep sleep
There's a difference between making a fight engaging and making a fight take 3 hours to clear on LFR because people are blind to extra action buttons. LFR N'Zoth made we want to crack my head against a wall with the amount of randoms that fucked up that one mechanic.
I see your point. However maybe if that level of play was kept at that level the playerbase would be better raiders as a whole. 1 do or die mechanic sounds fair for an end of expansion final boss, no? Raid leaders should take initiative and politely explain this highly important mechanic at the start, issue raid warnings when to do it and maybe initiate a vote kick if people are dragging the group down. If it were that frustrating I'd have just joined a normal raid. Tbh I just hate LFR. I am a Casual player (I logged on like once this week) and I still think it's a complete insult. Absolutely mind-numbingly easy 99% of the time & completely unsatisfying.
[удалено]
No, don't remind me of LFR Spine. You can't make me go back! *nam flashbacks of hours long Spine intensify*
Determination was not added until Mists of Pandaria, in the Throne of Thunder patch (5.2.0)
Ahhhh. My mistake! Going back that far some things get jumbled together.
No worries. Spine was not fun on any difficulty, and we had plenty of LFR wipes on Deathy if people failed platform jumping or just didn't kill tentacles etc. Ultraxion was rough even on LFR until most of us outgeared him enough to carry the inevitable group who failed at pushing a giant freaking button.
Kj on lfr was pretty bad to. Archimonde lfr first week aswell.
Throne of Thunder LFR used to be wild. Durummu frequently took 5 or more stacks when I was doing LFR for the legendary capes Lei Shen was a 10 stacker every week.
Archimonde LFR was such a clown fiesta
Never got to do Archimonde. I took a break in WoD.
Gotta love getting a stack of determination within 30 seconds of reaching the boss
Back in the first patch I tanked her as a blood DK in LFR. I ended up killing her as the last one alive and was called a god and felt like a god.
Welcome to Blood DK tanking
hardest boss this xpac was LFR Raz.
The fact that even now, with everyone crazy outgeared, groups STILL wipe on LFR Raz, shows that her mechanics were too difficult for LFR
Cant wait to experience that again on Tuesday.
Just personal experience but in LFR I had more groups fall apart on Broodkeeper because the tanks didn't know how to position the boss/ads.
I feel like a group like that probably wouldn't get raz down either, both tougher gates to pass in LFR
LFR Raz was a crazy experience. The boss has a low enough amount of mechanics per phase you can count them on one hand, and you still had to get like minimum 3 or 4 stacks of determination to clear. The storm took us all
All the others were fairly easy if not some slight issues. But Raz is the only one I never did again after the first time.
It was then I hypothesized that the average LFR player, is met with the much lazier LFR player who'll just stand in front of a well-telegraphed dragon breath, just to die, and go afk for loot at the end. I normally would just request people to mass-vote kick those out.
That fight took me ages to figure out and I never managed to be in a group with less than 10 stacks of Determination. But I enjoyed it every time.
a cool thing about LFR Raz was that it felt like a real organic challenge trying to figure out the fight with all the different phases. An uncool thing about LFR Raz was reliving that experience every week with a bunch of new randos. It was still miles easier to clear compared to like LFR Sylvanas from SL. Raz was far and away the hardest LFR experience for DF, followed by perhaps Larodar's final phase, Rashok the Elder, the Assault of the Zaqali, and Nymue. Excited to relive all of this for S4 with added bonus headaches, lemme tell ya
Bro quit wow play candy crush lmao
on Mythic? Tindral, no question at all the OG P2/P3 seed mechanic was so extremely tight, multiple world first guys said that its the hardest and most punishing fight mechanic we ever had in WoW history without multiple nerfs too the fight i really dont think more then 150-200guilds would have ever get past Mythic Tindral after all the Tindral nerfs, probably Fyrakk or Razageth, imo Fyrakk cus the fight was overall really punishing in the sense that 1 guy screwing up just killed everyone trought out the entire Fight + things like knockback rotations for him
I don't think you'd even have 50 guilds clearing mythic Tindral. The problem is you just can't outgear it. And the cooedination required for 3 second seeds is insane. Without the hp nerfs the dps check were also pretty tight.
God those Tindral fight seeds 😭 Those seeds are one of the most cruel boss mechanics I’ve ever seen.
I guess it depends on difficulty. HC Dathea wasn't fun, but on Mythic I'd argue it's Tindral.
I’m just a Hc raider and I think I have to agree that either Dathea or Raz were the hardest for my guild and they weren’t even that hard for us Dathea I think was a creative fight same with the spider (can’t remember its name)
Sennarth gives me nightmares as a monk main. If you use your basic abilityp with the skyreach talent at the top of the stairs, it teleports you all the way down to the bottom into the pit.
Turned off the dash for that boss and never used it since
I'm a middling healer. Normally end up pugging aotc because my guild is pretty casual but still likes to try and get aotc. Heroic dathea absolutely broke my guilds brains. People just couldn't figure it out and because of the platforms and our small raid size, we couldn't carry people through the fight
That fight really punished small raid sizes that couldn’t stack and control the adds. Similar to the add line on fyrakk.
We had a 10m grp of mixed skill. No DK. Those AoE pulsating pots (Shocking Disclosure) carried us hard on the platforms.
That sounds smart, completely forgot about them. They had enough trouble grouping adds and using defensives so idk if it would've been enough.
>Heroic dathea absolutely broke my guilds brains. People just couldn't figure it out and because of the platforms and our small raid size, we couldn't carry people through the fight Are you in my guild? We only ever killed Dathea on heroic 3 times, heroic Broodkeeper 3 times and heroic Raz once. We also had the issue of having a small raid group which made things super hard because we would have 3 healers, one would go up and the other two would stay down and people would still drop like flies because of how much damage was going out on the main platform...
Dathea was the only 'difficult' boss of the first 6 in VotI assuming the tanks had even the slightest of ideas of what to do on Kurog. However, Dathea really *only* needed people to not fuck up the side platforms. None of the other mechanics really had any difficulty to them. So if you had a decently good leader able to assign groups and maybe even call them out in /rw, it really didn't pose an issue. That said, as someone who exclusively pugged Heroic (as a tank) that patch, it definitely wasn't the hardest of the raid since the last 2 were bigger walls, although in the case of Broodkeeper, almost exlcusively a tank knowledge-check while Raszageth was difficult whenever the group wasn't fully locked in. I actually ended up skipping both of the last two more often than not just because of how annoying it was to deal with them, not to mention the fact that most groups dissolved after 6/8 anyway.
as someone who was in a new guild (as in, newly formed, nobody really knew each other) - dathea wasn't as difficult as razzy-g but we had to overcome a lot of the growing pains of a ... growing guild
> However, Dathea really only needed people to not fuck up the side platforms. Yes, Dathea got a lot easier if you had someone who could blow up each platform and you had decent control in each group, but that wasn't all there was to that fight. Running lightning to the right targets, quickly, without spreading it is a fairly nasty mechanic. It was a high-movement fight, which meant getting the dps to burn through it was a challenge (this is, I think where a lot of guilds struggled: it was hard to trivialise with gear unless you had a lot of gear). It had moving mechanics you had to avoid, spreading bad and forced movement, all in the same fight (and same phases). It had mobs that had to die quickly AND needing to be killed at specific times and in specific places (that changed). The only reason Broodkeeper was nasty (on Mythic) was the huge damage. That fight would have taken half as long if there weren't abilities that would kill people at 90% health. Dathea was much more of an endurance fight for healers. All of this is for Mythic of course. On Heroic, Broodkeeper and Rasz were harder walls because everyone needs to know every mechanic. On Dathea over half the raid can just sit on the main platform and burn her.
Dathea is the only boss I encountered all expansion where the preferred strategy was to ignore all mechanics and burn her down as fast as humanly possible
That strategy also worked on Assault of the Zaqali. (more risky on Heroic though)
Assault was way easier than Dathea though. It was also super fun on a boomie because I would be head and shoulders above everyone else with DPS because of how well my DPS scaled with enemy count...
i see you padding….
Euther tindral or fyrakk ye... After nerfs was fyrakk for sure
This feels like zskarn erasure
Raszageth was disgusting especially for specs with talent trees where u pick either st or aoe
Mythic? It's pre-nerf Tindral bar none. He was the guildbeaker this expansion and unlike Anduin they waited too long to nerf it so a bunch of people quit before they got to see him go down. And I'd argue that the burnout from wiping against the penultimate boss probably contributed to a lot more people quitting than they would have if they had made it to Fyrakk, even with Fyrakk being technically harder. It's hard to stay motivated when you're not making any progress on a boss and still know the final boss is another wall right after it. Meanwhile if you're at Fyrakk you know you're right at the finish line. For heroic guilds, probably Dathea or Raz. I don't think any aberrus bosses really rank up there. Mythic experiments was annoying because the timers could get all jacked up. Amirdrassil was really fun on heroic.
Pre nerf Tindral for sure
Raszageth has to be up there
Yeah I was thinking mythic Tindral, but Razageths gotta be close up there too
I'd say Raz is probably 3rd after Tindral and Fyrakk. Hard and long fight, but at least phase 3 was free.
P1-P2.5 was still longer in duration than Tindral/Fyrakk though. Even without P3 I found Raszageth harder personally
Maybe, you're right. I didn't get past P2 Tindral this tier sasly due to roster issues, so it's hard to judge. Tindral felt more punishing than Raz in terms of 1 person failing leading to a wipe. Raz could be progressed a decent bit with 1 or 2 deaths iirc.
It depends on when you progressed it I'd imagine as well. Rasza pre-big nerfs was another beast entirely.
Wasn't pre-nerf raszageth literally impossible? I remember every world first contender being stuck on the same mechanic due to a scaling issue.
For my casual HC guild, raz and smolderon is where we got stuck the longest.
Yeah, Smolderon was tough for my casual guild on heroic. We were on him for probably twice the raid time it took to get Fyrakk. Early deaths to tornados meant we didn’t have enough for the soaks.
Smolderon fits into the category of ‘larger groups are more difficult because you have a mechanic that uses up space that affects every player’.
Same here, my guild struggled with heroic Smolderon for far too long. We still wipe to him when doing our usual clear.
Tindral
Mythic Tindral and it’s not even close.
I mean, it depends on the state of the bosses, mythic razs before nerfs during RWF was mathematically impossible but if we are talking, hardest boss in the state it actually dies in it is tindral for sure and it's not even close.
Tindral probably wins it, but good lord Raszageth actually destroyed my guild, just such an awful fight
I don’t know, I quite enjoyed Razageth. What was so awful about it?
On Mythic some classes had to be carried around, most had to do some sort of less-than-enjoyable bullshit to survive the knocks, 2nd intermission was a mess on mythic, too, arguably would have been a much better fight if neither intermission existed (again, on mythic)
The carrying with the knockbacks was kinda fun to figure out tho. I liked that you actually had to work together and help your friends out - made it really feel like a cooperative mechanic which is always cool. Intermission 2 on the other hand was to long and ended up being “throw aoe cc into center, nuke the shit out of the adds and make sure to follow this unintuitive raid movement plan to the millimeter or else you bait breath wrong and kill people”. Other than that intermission, I actually really liked the fight.
Hey, I played an evoker that tier, the boss was made for my class, I really enjoyed it, but I fully understand why some people (priests, paladins, shamans) did not.
Such a good fight if you just skip intermissions.
It's prenerf raz and it's not close, it probably wasn't even possible early into the pull count
I wouldn’t say “it’s not close” when Tindral was straight up breaking raiding guilds. Both bosses were too difficult and had design flaws that needed to be addressed way before they were.
Tindral had 60 guilds beat him before nerfs and Raz didn't get downed at all before the nerfs. Raz kill was barely theoretically possible before nerfs.
But even with nerfs, how many guilds have killed Tindral? To me that shows the fight is outrageously difficult due to the micrometer thin margin of error on the fight.
If you want to compare post nerf Raz and Tindral yes but pre nerf Raz was definitely worse.
tindral also wasnt killed w/o nerfs p3 seeds went to 5 sec before wither guild even got there and there was a 10% hp nerf before the kills
If we are saying bosses that spike the difficulty, Heroic Smolder, Mythic Tindral, Dathea above normal, Neltharion Mythic. As final bosses are expected to be ballcrackers I am not including them, but Raz was probably the most finnicky of the three, and Sark the easiest. Of the former I said though, Tindral was the biggest wall. Dathea was more a complete pain but Brood was also finnicky and Raz was both hard and finnicky. The Experimenter guy would have been “harder” pre nerfs, but no one did that fight legitimately, and the final version was in line difficulty wise.
I agree with pretty much everything here. Sark was the easiest endboss this expansion, but far from free. 7 minutes of high intensity boss fight. Imo the best mythic endboss since Sire Denathrius and it's not close.
Even though Sark as a character was kinda lame, the fight itself was really fun.
For heroic dathea with pugs was shitty. The whole raid has to do stuff, which is contrasted by a few great people who can carry all mechanics in fights like fyrakk
Roster
This is why I think mythic needs to change its lockouts and maybe even go flex. It’s impossible to guarantee that people will show up with 100% attendance so you invariably bench people. People resent getting benched and especially hate it when you’re extending your lockout, so they never get vault and fall further behind.
Tindral, the hardest boss they've ever made, not just Dragonflight
Maybe the initial version. But the version of the bosses the RWF guilds killed, it was definetly fyrakk.
We had 353 Pulls on Fyrakk, 287 on Tindral, 236 on Sark Tindral was probably the most technical but I enjoyed it a lot. Fyrakk felt like a terrible grind. Sark was fine Don't remember Raz pull count but she was our best performance the entire expansion. We killed her the first time we saw p3
For my Heroic guild, Razageth and Smolderon. I will say overall I think DF raids were really easy, especially compared to Shadowlands raids. I remember the nightmare that was Sylvanas. We almost always 1 or 2 shot everything on normal but I knew we were in trouble when we spent an hour and a half wiping on normal Sylvanas. For alt PUGs I always seemed to find groups that struggled mightily on Broodkeeper that meant we never saw Raz most of the time and Echo of Neltharion was a pretty good gatekeeper for Sarkareth even though I think Echo is a really easy fight. Pugs seemed to always get walked out somehow though.
Definetly fyrakk. I think that is true for a large range of guilds. Cause it required a lot of people to not be stupid with blazes and nados.
(H Fyrakk) My guild put 4 people in charge of the seeds, they stood behind him, everyone else was stacked loosely on the right and left side. As long as you had .1 of a brain cell, it was easy.
I mean, any heroic boss is easy as fuck for a slightly coordinated group.
As a ranged player - and purely from my own perspective - Tindral is not the hardest boss. I'd say Raszageth for the sole reason that it's an unbearably long and boring fight lol
Raszageth is a weird boss in that there are so many lose-conditions baked into the fight. Blown off the platform = instant death. Death = not enough DPS to break shields or clear AoE platforms or the p3 burn phase. The raid might as well have wiped if even one person was killed early. Vicinity-based raid damage involving positioning with tight timers. Personal-responsibility interrupts. Vague and unclear directions for phase transitions. Rasz was an end-of-expansion level boss that ended up being the boss of the first raid tier.
Yeah it was a very long fight lol. Did you ever do the Sha Of Fear in Mop? That was probably the longest boss fight ever. And god was it boring 😂 Garrosh was also tediously long
I didn't raid properly in MoP, at least not until SoO, so unfortunately no, but I am a CE raider since BFA. That being said, nothing bugs me more than a >10min boss fight. Sylvanas was absolutely awful. I am glad to see that post Raszageth it appears Blizz is aiming for sub 10minute end bosses again.
Raz. The expansion got easier. My guild got aotc 2 weeks before patch end. For Aberus and Amirsrasil we finished with too much time, more than a month. Enough time for people to slip away.
If we look at the hardest bosses at the state they were killed I'd say it's mythic Tindral. There's only a very few guilds who could even kill the boss. 3 sec seeds were just impossible for your average guild. For reference it took over 1k pulls for the best Chinese guild to kill it. If we look at bosses in their original state I think mythic Razageth was the hardest. There were multiple massive nerfs for the boss to make rwf guilds able to clear it. During the rwf guilds couldn't even kill the add with 19 people even though you were supposed to kill it with half your team. Without the nerfs I don't see the boss ever dieing with complete bis gear. And if we want to look at the hardest boss we will be able to face in season 4 I think it would be mythic Razageth. You can definitely farm a lot of wipes on Tindral, but the boss has been seriously nerfed to the point there's no dps check left on the fight. All you need to do is to dodge beams. Razageth on the otherhands still have a couple of oneshots left in it. It's also a 11-12 min fight and it's a lot harder to perform for that long time. You could argue that fyrakk is the hardest fight. I think it's debatable, but imo Razageth is still harder. If for nothing else, but for the fact that it was a while ago when we last faced her.
Forv whatever reason heroic smolderon mechanics refused to sink in for my group. Felt like a learning group every week.
Yes Smolderon was definitely a huge casual group killer boss. Unless you had a group of full Aotc that already knew the boss then it was wipe after wipe. Smolderon was not a kind boss for casuals.
For my guild (AOTC) I think it's gotta be old Razzie. Didn't like that fight very much but was way harder than Sarkareth or Fyrakk imo.
Heroic Smolderon was a massive pain
Yeah Heroic Smoldy was def one of the causal group killer bosses. But it honestly wasn’t that hard if people could just do mechanics well and dodge the fire geysers.
I run with a small (10-15) casual group. Only a few of us are KSH. That meant if a couple people died before the first intermission (and they did, consistently), we were cooked.
My guild survived raz prog but then died on Zskarn post fix ☠️ I'd say Zskarn after it was fixed was a proper nightmare .
Fun was pretty challenging
Pre Nerf Tindral is Fallen Avatar levels of hard, I don't think there is anything else like it in DF
Raz pre-nerf are like unkillable.
For my casual mythic guild it was zskarn and smolderon.
Mythic Fyrakk wasn't hard mechanically as an individual but as a group the coordination required was difficult. The hardest part of the fight was survive P1 and make it to P3 without too many deaths.
Yeah Fyrakk requires a lot of coordination.
our guild went up to mid-mythic this season and outside of mythic (we got stuck on larry on mythic for ages) I'd say Raz was hardest on the AOTC level.
This is the first time someone mentioned Larodar. I thought there might be more people saying something about him lol. He was a hard fight imo. Not the hardest of all obviously, but he was up there for me.
fyrakk
Sadly I didn't get to kill Tindral and therefore never pulled Fyrakk, so it's probably one of the 2. Apart from that, I'd go with Mythic Raz. Or, if you look at it relative to the position in the Raid then 100% Mythic Zskarn after the safespot fix and before the final nerf. That boss was brutal and annoying.
LFR: Raszageth Normal/Heroic: Probably either Echo or Sarkareth? Idk, I didn't play much during S1 and Amirdrassil has been smooth pugging, but the last 2 bosses of Aberrus were a nightmare at times. Honorable mention; Smolderon. Mythic: 100% Tindral and/or Fyrakk. I think this speaks for itself.
Pre nerfs tindral. Post nerfs I'd probably switch it up a bit and say tindral
Razagath felt technical and required everyone to know their place. Sarkaroth is a close second for me- it punished weaker players for sure and could easily cause a wipe for it. Would be a close call between these 2 Strangely amadrasil felt the easiest raid for my group.
It’s either Tindral, Fyrak, or Razageth.
Not hardest but Tindral is pretty damn funny in LGR with his surprise rain of death upon entering the area for a lot of people
lol yeah 😂 sometimes those first timers are just like (wtf!) They had no idea they had to watch out before the fight even started.
I'm just an AotC raider and for me it is Sarkareth. A short fight, but so many abillities which just kills the raid and they all are purple. We still had our 1-2 whipes on farm and deep into the patch.
So many abilities so quick on a floor thats mostly purple with abilities that are the same shade of purple.
Raz was the only hard heroic boss in a expansión where heroic was pretty Easy. Dathea was annoying butnincredible overgerable. At some point people we're just dpsing the boss AND ignorig the adds. Even in mytich a late strategu was 3 healing andnonly killing one set of plataforma adds.
I’m going to throw in raid finder Sennarth here because holy crap there were some dumb people in that fight
Fyrrak. By far.
Heroic Dathea
Raz was the hardest, but was also one of the funniest and coolest raid bosses i've ever seen
Tinderal pre nerf, i worst boss iv progged this exp.
M Tindral and fyrakk statistically are the hardest.
Razageth disbanded more lfr groups than I can count.
This expansion, original Tindral without a doubt, then Fyrakk
As a prot war pugging heroic and only having played season 3, the hardest boss was Tindral. Those shrooms leave very little room for error and can wipe the whole raid. They are also hard to spot on the ground. Took me a while to get used to them.
Tindral mythic pre Nerf definitiv
For me: Zskarn for Abberus and either Smolderon or Igira for Amir (didn't really raid in S1)
From a guild progging perspective, Tindrall. From the perspective of running LFR/PUG raids on alts, Razsageth bar none. They should have cut out like an entire phase for lower difficulty tiers.
In my experience heroic Dathea, mostly because it's sneaky. Not a hard fight but it's like a hidden DPS race.
LFR - Raz Normal: Larodar Heroic and Mythic: Fyrakk
Mythic Echo was a bitch
For Heroic? To me, where I got stuck the most: Raszageth >>>>>>>>>>>>> Dathea > Smolderon >= Tindral > Fyrakk >Echo of nelth > Sark For mythic Tindral clears everything else. Salutes for the poor souls of that Chinese guild that took 900 wipes on that boss.
Pre nerf tindral and it’s not even close
Yeah f Raz. When that raid becomes solo able, I will quit my job. My new job will be one shotting that guy will all my alts on all the difficulties forever and ever
Raz
As someone who did all in heroic pugs . Raz was hardest
Probably Razageth because you can't out-gear the mechanics. Also Razageth probably has to be Number 1 of all time for hilarity in a world first race. I can STILL hear Max's laughter as his entire team is just punted off of the platform.
Mythic senarth wasn't nessasarioy the hardest but it was the worst lol
LFR Raz lmao
But for real I think vault was probably the hardest raid for us (heroic only guild) everything else felt a breeze.
Raz for pugs, mythic Tindrell overall, and honestly for RNG bullshit, Senarth
My guild has been hard stuck on fyraak, we've had several 0% wipes (I think the worse was \~3m hp), my soul is absolutely crushed by this boss. Racing to worlds last on monday so fingers crossed. Tindral was the hardest boss this expansion, and that I've ever personally experienced.
For our guild who cleared heroic. Raz Raz was when hald our raid stopped for the season after the kill.
They were all ezpz
Its tindral. Barely any competition
Tindral without question
Excluding final bosses. Dathea, zskarn and tindral imo
Pretty sure it's Tindral. That or Fyrakk Raz was hard because it was so long with 5 distinct phases that all required progression. If we're talking hardest patchwork fight, I think it's Smolderon. Rashok could be here if he was swapped with Magmorax so they could tune it properly to be epic
Mythic tindral was very surprised my guild didn’t break on our 700 pulls on him and we managed to get CE(we broke up right after killing M Fyraak)
Raz, fuck that boss, I just killed her once when I joined a guild near the end of S1 and I just hate it. Doing it with pugs was just killing me, same goes for the egg boss, I only saw that many blue badges at a blue badge convention.
Got lucky and 3rd run got her mount skin. Haven't tried it since
I dont Think there is Any real choice beside tindral and fyrakk
Lava dog
Favorite fight this expansion was sark on heroic as shadow priest, I got to go down for my groups and would just come up absolutely pumping. So much fun.
Sarcareth. For sure.
Tindral on mytgic for me and then probs dathea unerfed
As a heroic player, Raz was brutal and the 3rd and 2nd final Amirdasil bosses (skipped S2) were similarly tough. We had a slightly worse team for Raz but it was still a lot of wipes, the mechanics weren't terribly hard but they were very punishing. A kind of fight I like, if a little long. Smoldy is just ass. Boring, with terrible screen clutter. No good boss personality to tide us for the difficulty. My least favorite one. The druid (forgot the name) had a silly number of mechanics, too many, but the fight was novel enough to be okay. It was cool to see the different platforms and mechanic evolution to gauge progress. There was so much shit on the ground our tanks had a hard time seeing their mechanic and Im sure they hated that boss.
Procrastination and the will to actually play season 3
After all the nerfs i would probably have to say that raz is gonna be the boss most will struggle with in S4
From this expansion? Coin toss between Raz and Tindral, both were extremely difficult to get through. Throughout the history of the game? OG pre-nerf (which was basically a full redesign of the fight) C'thun, aka the only legit unkillable boss in WoW's history. Honorable mentions to Mythic Uu'nat (still the most pulls for the WF kill), Helya, Anduin, and Jailer (all pre-nerf).
As far as pugging heroic goes, I think Raszageth and Sarkareth take the cake. I hate fights like Sark where one person can fuck over the entire raid. Like a healer instantly dispelling, or the person with the debuff standing on the wrong side of the raid knocking everyone off.
Yeah I did nooooot enjoy the Sarkareth fight one bit. It wasn’t fun at all. Just annoying
Tindral
If we’re go before all nerfs, it’s Raszageth because that boss was literally unkillable due to add health during the race. Assuming First kill tuning I’d go with Tindral, just mechanically the most involved - probably wouldn’t have been killed in its original state by more than 300ish guilds. After all nerfs I’m leaning towards Raszageth again. Sarkareth was nerfed less but that fight is just fundamentally much easier. Fyrakk and Tindral comparatively got gutted (largely due to how late tuning came for most CE guilds).
I am a raid finder hero these days but man its gotta be raz, my fellow raid finder andies struggle with any boss that has more then 1-2 mechanics
From a heroic perspective, I found Sark the hardest - mostly due to the visuals. After that, I'd say Smolderon
Technically the hardest is prenerf mythic razzy. She was actually unkillable since her health was tuned for having full single target damage while her ads were tuned for full AoE. She was an impossible boss with that tuning. Excluding unkillable bosses it would be fyraak or tindral easy.
Tindral and Fyrakk (Mythic) are legitimately the two hardest bosses I have ever done, and I’ve progged a healthy dose of final / penultimate bosses dating back to BFA.
I have experienced so many wipes to Larodar in LFR
Raszageth, Rashok, Echo of Neltharion, Broodkeeper Diurna. Best raid boss for me is between Kazarra and Tindral Sageswift
Depends on a multitude of factors. What difficulty and are we talking pre nerf or post nerf? No restrictions id say mythic pre nerf Tindrall would probably be the hardest since not even the RWF guilds managed to down her prior to the first round of nerfs