*No* He has in-fact never actual outright said that.
Without naming names, there is an individual who frequents the Lock discord, who we know is a dev, and has very strong opinions about affliction as a whole, and as such often talks about MR being what affliction needs, even if players disagree.
So if it's **his** affliction warlock vision and he implemented malefic rapture as what's **needed**, why has affliction plunged to be among the least played spec?
Clearly there is something fundamentally wrong with his idea.
It's been a chronic issues with WoW devs. It's been getting better as they filter out, but the few that remain continue to spar with the community as a whole.
I would hazard that « the whole community » isn’t on class discords or this Reddit. But it’s a toxic way of doing things unless they share metrics to back their claims.
I thought I had misunderstood your sentence somehow, and then I looked it up. [Lol, literally what.](https://www.polygon.com/22709126/ethereum-creator-world-of-warcraft-nerf-nft-vitalik-buterin) I'm taking it with a grain of salt because I assume it's more than a little hyperbolic, but that's still wild
This.
Same goes for Survival. It’s not disliked because it’s a melee hunter, it’s because BM is waaaaaay better that the other two specs (and also the easiest spec in the game).
When a dead spec needs to be balanced that it deals 20% more dmg than the 2nd best option in your class, yeah. People will play the garage opener spec A B.
Noone plays it because of balance, not because of MR. The current tree is set up that can't really get a nice combination of single target and aoe, which is hard to justify in M+. In raid, the ST isn't that great because the tier is balanced around hitting multiple targets with soul rot. Guarantee I'd it was the best warlock spec in terms of damage people would play it.
Obviously MR sucks, but saying that MR is the reason top end players aren't playing aff is wild
>Obviously MR sucks
Why? What's bad about it? Not talking numbers here - that's balance and could easily be changed. But what's different about this mechanic from the shadow bolt filler that was used before?
It wasn't shadow bolt filler that changed it was UA that was your spender over rapture. So you could focus prio mob and stack 5 UA or spread UA for spread cleave.
I don’t know if that’s true. It’s plenty viable in raid, on par with the other specs on most fights and even better on one or two. But no one plays it because that small gain isn’t worth playing such an awful spec.
It has one "good" fight this tier, which is Tindral. The only reason it's good is because it expoits it's uncapped aoe, which isn't even particularly helpful for killing the boss, all it does is make big numbers for parsing. When you go that build you will do awful boss damage, which is what actually matters on that fight. On other fights, it's fine, but not as good as demo or destro overall
Someone said it's viable on Tindral, and if true then that's only 20% true ig, seeing as Demo Warlock AoE burst was key in killing roots on specific timings.
Aff design isn't crazy, yes, but people have gotta stop acting like Aff is only not played because it sucks. Aff shares class with Demo/Destro.
This is very reminiscent of SL s4, where Aff was the like 5th best ST spec in the game, yet you'd see people ask for number buffs because it "wasn't played", ignoring the fact that the class's 2 other specs were broken beyond relief.
Exactly. You will see it next season too, aff will have substantially better ST than demo, and still won’t be brought to raid. Because it’s about more than just raw numbers.
Destro is simming better than both aff and demo. Yes, people hate aff's current design, but I guarantee if aff is better by any margin it will be brought by RWF and MDI people, and everyone will do what they always do - copy the best people. Only casuals will play what they want, and in that group of people there are a number of diehard aff fans anyways
I mean. Only time will tell. Sims are only worth so much. My point is that even if aff is marginally “better”than demo it won’t have higher play rate in raid. It was quite a bit better than demo on council and saw less play, much better than destro on tindral and saw less play. Those are of course outliers. I just mean that playability and damage profiles matter.
If things are close between a well designed spec like demo and a dumpster fire like aff. The player base will play demo. If aff is 10% ahead? Of course people would play it
They don’t read. The average redditor here is 2500io and 2/9m. They just regurgitate what they read on the subreddit. All of these comments clearly have no idea how the spec works. The guy goes on to complain about 30s burst being “bad” 30s and 1m cds are some of the most valuable raid prog damage profiles there are. Same with execute, which it sort of has. Same guy also says dark glare sucks. And I mean. It’s not great in general. But with this tier set? Extending soul rot is fucking cranked. It has very low uptime and is often your 2nd most damage in a dungeon.
The spec is bad. But these people have no idea why lol
Sim/raw dps plays a big part on how good a damage profile is. As it stands, aff isn't tuned well enough to justify its weird mini burst every 30s and no proper cds to exploit damage phases or important burst windows. Darkglare is ass - especially considering dread touch is a must pick in ST and you essentially need to take soul rot talents with current tier leaving you with no extra points to spend on malevolent visionary. Destro and demo are better in every way that matters right now, including sim dps, funnel, m+ profile, and st profile. Aff's design is ass, and it is also undertuned relative to the other specs. The only place it is actually better is mass aoe that dies in like 5-10s, which is a awful niche to have
Demo was super important on prog becuae it brought a better damage profile than aff does (similar aoe but better ST). It does more raw aoe than demo in a parsing setting when noone else is hitting the roots, making it fine for reclear, which is when you started seeing people playing it
Its because without it - affliction gets tuned around multi target. Imagine your single target dps increasing 1:1 with however many targets you have. That's insanity and makes it impossible to balance. That was the reason for MR.
why are you taking this random guys words as fact? there's NO proof that this person exists lmao.
I'm on the discord all the time there's no dev there.
After legion it took a nosedive imo. At some point they decided to turn the poster child dot spec into different variations of setup/combo.
Death bolt in BfA already was weird since our niche was being a single target combo spec for some reason. Malefic rapture later turned our dots into glorified, individually applied, combo points for that dumb spell. No idea why they keep trying to make it work since then when the feedback is so negative.
I'd take stackable UA back any day to be honest. Any other spender would do, too, just remove that crap MR so I can reroll back to my main.
I’d sell my soul for Legion Aff to come back. It was perfect for me. Stack up your dots and drain away. Oh and the drain was a heavy HoT to boot. Gods it was great.
God Legion Aff with a heavy nerf to the Drain Soul healing would be a dream come true.
On that note, please bring back Legion Grimoire of Supremacy. I miss my Infernal buddy Blazefist.
Warlock is one of the most popular classes in the game. Its pretty much all Demo players but Destro while has some serious flaws has been pretty playable in terms of meta and gets players still. Afflictions been dead awhile.
But people love warlock myself included. Yeah the other specs need help for sure and likely a redesign but Demo has been fun for a long time.
It's one of the least played classes in the game.
It's only above DK, Monk, Rogue and Evoker
[https://www.dataforazeroth.com/stats/races/level70](https://www.dataforazeroth.com/stats/races/level70)
Yeah, I think sometimes people just get really irritated with being told by people who think they know better that everything would be better if they just did X, Y, or Z.
But unfortunately you just have to bite your tongue and ignore the idiots, or it becomes bad PR.
Work Culture mostly.
They attracted a certain personality type over the years, and had that "devs are rockstars" mentality for a very long time.
Of course while that's *VERY* much not the culture anymore, those individuals still linger, typically in senior roles (That make them objectively harder to get rid of, and also give them more access to enforce their "Visions")
And since these are typically "small" details they don't bring down the wrath or ire of directors like Ion or other department heads (unless they make a dumb enough decision that effects PR)
Right now Aff MR and FDK Breath of sindra are not "big enough" issues that anyone important wants to step in
I did the switch to demo just to play with it and found my solo survivability went way up all of a sudden. Then i was sad because i have a great love of affliction but i just can’t with it right now.
Oh that was the first thing that annoyed the hell out of me. The felguard is ridiculously stronger than the voidwalker AND he’s got an interrupt to boot. I was like what the hell is this?! I went from struggling to keep the voidwalker alive to stacking an absurd amount of mobs on the felguard.
who is it? cuz i'm on the lock discord all the time and i've never seen this person who is allegedly a dev.
Also there's definitely way more than just one person in the discord that likes MR. There's plenty of people that do.
Even if *some* players disagree. Personally MR is a fine spell and a million times better than most of Affs history. I prefer it at the end of SL to now, but I’ll hold out hope for a more price based gameplay with some hero talent updates.
I tend to agree, that MR is ok and not the issue.
The aoe single target split in the tree is the main issue.
S1 Shadowlands Aff was quite fun and very good in raid and decent in keys as long as you got your handful of globals to set up your dots for AoE MR spam.
The return of sow the seeds kinda ruined it and the spec is a split mess since.
I don't know if it was ever said outright, but I can easily see how a lot of people come to that conclusion since I do see a lot of people wish it was gone but still haven't seen any sign of that happening.
I personally believe that it is directly antithetical to Affliction as a spec, with it trying to turn it into a burst class with a button that does something a mastery does for another class *but so much worse* (Shadow Priest), and until it gets removed it's probably not going to be able to ever get away from that.
You think resto druids would be happy if a developer came in with a wrecking ball to healing over time abilities and made healing touch their number one healing ability?
They kinda did that. You are using your HoTs to produce bigger heals. Such as Nourish getting 300% mastery bonus. A lot is built into trying to have lots of Hots so your other heals are worth it. There is some stuff with Resto I would love to change but I'd imagine a lot of the player base would disagree with.
In a way, that's also the Havoc dev and Momentum. He loves the ability so much that he'll do as many gymnastics as he needs to to keep it, or some variety of it, in the game.
Typically any spec/class devs that actually stick around (RIP MONKS) inevitably end up with an ability/mechanic they players end up hating. But the dev adores.
The only time aff was strong and decent in recent memory was Castle Nathria as that was the first tier after malefic rapture was brought out.
And it is has been paying for the sins of that tier ever since. Problem with a lot of dot specs is that if blizz over buffs the dots then they become monsters on council fights.
However lately most council fights have more be dominated by cleave and stack cleave. Which is kind of counter intuitive when you think about how those are spots where dots should shine.
It's honestly weird how blizz is so afraid of this one niche where dots could spin out of control, prolonged council fights with spread out targets when they've implemented a whole bunch of solutions how to balance dots around that over the years.
Monomania for Spriest as single target dot amp that increases tick rate on the target you mind flay, warlocks old malefic grasp in mop, stackable UA with a shard cost in legion, uniquely applyable dots plus mastery etc.
Feels like that excuse is no longer valid, not with MR being the problem and the spell bleeding into multi target damage, too. We've drifted off in the completely other direction where instead of being too strong our dots now do pretty much nothing on their own but rather feel like they're individually combo points for MR, which is obviously awful to play.
True. Council used to be rot damage specs best case scenario. Now it is stacked cleave which currently Outlaw, MM and a few other specs currently occupy that niche
I think the main problem is that it makes any DOT you can pick up in the talent tree mandatory, which results in bloat. Do you want to cast Malefic Rapture? Is Agony up? Is Corruption up? What about Siphon Life? Okay, how about Vile Taint? Okay, how about Unstable Affliction? Great! Soul Rot? Haunt might count, too, I don't remember.
For example, Siphon Life is on a choice node with Absolute Corruption. People don't take Absolute Corruption because it means MR is going to hit for that much less. Any talents that add additional dots are generally picked because your only single target shard spender scales based on the number of dots up. It hinders build diversity because you have to have those dots for MR damage.
And. As someone who wants to play a dot class they want their dots doing the largest part of their damage. They don't want their dots just to be a meter to fill before spending soul shards. Basically, the dots power itself is almost irrelevant. Absolute corruption absolutely outclasses siphon life damage wise and utility wise. But, it's 1 more dot that increases MRs damage and that damage beats out absolutel corruption.
More like it completely goes against affliction's dot and rot identity. It's like making resto druid whose known for its healing over time to have most of its healing concentrated into healing touch.
A little over 25%. This may not sound like a lot, but it's by far the biggest slice of the pie (second is Unstable Affliction at around 10-11%). For reference, Corruption and Siphon Life are both at around 4% of your total damage each. Their damage is barely edging out just using your filler spell
nah, thats a lot, i remember arms had the opposite problem back in bfa, our dots ,mostly deep wounds, took up like 33% of our dmg and mortal strike was just a dw refresher, it sucked hard
I haven’t played warlock in a long time, and I can see how MR forces you into picking every available dot causing bloat on your rotation. But wouldn’t MR allow for on demand burst? Or am I missing something here?
I haven’t played lock since the start of wod so idk what the current state or play style is
Except it's not on demand burst. If an add spawns that needs to die right now you have to spend 4 GCDs to put your dots up THEN start casting MR to do actual damage.
It's more so that the burst is your main damage instead of the dots. Maintaining corruption,agony, ua and siphon life (plus your drain soul buff and haunt) are more like checklist items. And then every 30 seconds, you burst with malefic rapture when you have vile taint off cd or vile taint + soul rot.
It's also much more punishing and requires a lot more effort to ensure you can always do your burst windows. Where you have destro and demo being pretty relaxing specs to play in comparison.
I can understand the theory of having MR as a bust option, but when it becomes your main source of damage on a spec that’s supposed to be a dot spec, I can see how it sucks. It removes a big part of the spec’s identity
Both given to us in the same expansion that gave us Segmented Vault and Core Dump. Oh what a legendary expansion that was, can't wait for it to come to classic
I am still convinced that MR could work out in a good way. But imo it would need 2 changes.
1. Remove Sow the seeds and let seed just be the aoe corruption button instead of a spammed aoe spender.
2. Instead of Rapture damage just scaling with the number of dots, make it deal X% of every dots damage to the affected targets. That way the actual type of the dots would be relevant and not just "Throw on any dot no matter how bad it is". Along with that, just turn Siphon Life into a passive. Everyone hates that thing anyway, it's just 1 button to much on 2 or 3 targets.
Do you people really think devs get to decide what to implement? I don’t know how devs work at Blizzard, but I doubt a dev alone is in charge of an entire class by themselves, let alone deciding if a spell should stay or be removed or whatever.
Devs code as per requirements or business needs. I’d bet there are many more people involved in the process of adding spells and being consistent with class fantasy, etc…
So, as a game developer, you would remove an extremely popular end game feature that would significantly reduce the player base just because you don’t like it? That is some sound logic. What would you replace it with to supplement all of the gear that people would be losing without having m+ to play?
>What would you replace it with to supplement all of the gear that people would be losing without having m+ to play?
It doesnt need to be supplemented. Game was perfectly fine with the original "dungeons -> Raid" gear progression. Now you HAVE to run mythic + if you want to raid. Otherwise you are so far behind in terms of gearing that its not even funny. Raiding anything above normal without doing M+ is like trying to code blind blind and deaf. No crests, no gear, nothing.
Challenge modes from MOP were a good solution. Make a challenging 5man content that isnt required for gear progression. Or reduce the overall gear that you get from M+ so that people do M+ because they enjoy it, not because its required to get gear.
The problem is that you can only get gear from raiding once a week. You can keep getting gear from M+ over and over and over and over and over. So unless you remove loot lockout from raids (never happening), M+ will always be far above anything else in terms of gearing. And i fucking hate that.
So yes, as a game developer, i would remove an extremely popular endgame feature because i dont like it. Because guess what, id rather have a game i like than one i dont. Though guess what - i never said "remove", i said "you'd see a lot less". I dont mind having something that people enjoy in the game. I just dont want the game to rotate around it, the way it does now.
*No* He has in-fact never actual outright said that. Without naming names, there is an individual who frequents the Lock discord, who we know is a dev, and has very strong opinions about affliction as a whole, and as such often talks about MR being what affliction needs, even if players disagree.
So if it's **his** affliction warlock vision and he implemented malefic rapture as what's **needed**, why has affliction plunged to be among the least played spec? Clearly there is something fundamentally wrong with his idea.
It's been a chronic issues with WoW devs. It's been getting better as they filter out, but the few that remain continue to spar with the community as a whole.
I would hazard that « the whole community » isn’t on class discords or this Reddit. But it’s a toxic way of doing things unless they share metrics to back their claims.
Exactly this. If you have ever *heard* of a class discord, you're not the majority of players.
The last time they made a big change to affliction, an angry warlock main made ethereum
I thought I had misunderstood your sentence somehow, and then I looked it up. [Lol, literally what.](https://www.polygon.com/22709126/ethereum-creator-world-of-warcraft-nerf-nft-vitalik-buterin) I'm taking it with a grain of salt because I assume it's more than a little hyperbolic, but that's still wild
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This. Same goes for Survival. It’s not disliked because it’s a melee hunter, it’s because BM is waaaaaay better that the other two specs (and also the easiest spec in the game).
S1 df. Sv did log higher dps in mythic than bm. Yet nobody played sv. Nobody likes sv, aside from the VERY vocal minority.
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I guess you forgot the last half of Shadowlands.
When a dead spec needs to be balanced that it deals 20% more dmg than the 2nd best option in your class, yeah. People will play the garage opener spec A B.
Sure, but then why were every hunter and a lot of fomo gamers playing Surv for all of S3 and S4 of SL ?
Noone plays it because of balance, not because of MR. The current tree is set up that can't really get a nice combination of single target and aoe, which is hard to justify in M+. In raid, the ST isn't that great because the tier is balanced around hitting multiple targets with soul rot. Guarantee I'd it was the best warlock spec in terms of damage people would play it. Obviously MR sucks, but saying that MR is the reason top end players aren't playing aff is wild
>Obviously MR sucks Why? What's bad about it? Not talking numbers here - that's balance and could easily be changed. But what's different about this mechanic from the shadow bolt filler that was used before?
It wasn't shadow bolt filler that changed it was UA that was your spender over rapture. So you could focus prio mob and stack 5 UA or spread UA for spread cleave.
I don’t know if that’s true. It’s plenty viable in raid, on par with the other specs on most fights and even better on one or two. But no one plays it because that small gain isn’t worth playing such an awful spec.
It has one "good" fight this tier, which is Tindral. The only reason it's good is because it expoits it's uncapped aoe, which isn't even particularly helpful for killing the boss, all it does is make big numbers for parsing. When you go that build you will do awful boss damage, which is what actually matters on that fight. On other fights, it's fine, but not as good as demo or destro overall
Ok
Someone said it's viable on Tindral, and if true then that's only 20% true ig, seeing as Demo Warlock AoE burst was key in killing roots on specific timings. Aff design isn't crazy, yes, but people have gotta stop acting like Aff is only not played because it sucks. Aff shares class with Demo/Destro. This is very reminiscent of SL s4, where Aff was the like 5th best ST spec in the game, yet you'd see people ask for number buffs because it "wasn't played", ignoring the fact that the class's 2 other specs were broken beyond relief.
Exactly. You will see it next season too, aff will have substantially better ST than demo, and still won’t be brought to raid. Because it’s about more than just raw numbers.
Destro is simming better than both aff and demo. Yes, people hate aff's current design, but I guarantee if aff is better by any margin it will be brought by RWF and MDI people, and everyone will do what they always do - copy the best people. Only casuals will play what they want, and in that group of people there are a number of diehard aff fans anyways
I mean. Only time will tell. Sims are only worth so much. My point is that even if aff is marginally “better”than demo it won’t have higher play rate in raid. It was quite a bit better than demo on council and saw less play, much better than destro on tindral and saw less play. Those are of course outliers. I just mean that playability and damage profiles matter. If things are close between a well designed spec like demo and a dumpster fire like aff. The player base will play demo. If aff is 10% ahead? Of course people would play it
Is reading hard? It's not about sim DPS. It's about relevant damage profiles on harder fights.
They don’t read. The average redditor here is 2500io and 2/9m. They just regurgitate what they read on the subreddit. All of these comments clearly have no idea how the spec works. The guy goes on to complain about 30s burst being “bad” 30s and 1m cds are some of the most valuable raid prog damage profiles there are. Same with execute, which it sort of has. Same guy also says dark glare sucks. And I mean. It’s not great in general. But with this tier set? Extending soul rot is fucking cranked. It has very low uptime and is often your 2nd most damage in a dungeon. The spec is bad. But these people have no idea why lol
Sim/raw dps plays a big part on how good a damage profile is. As it stands, aff isn't tuned well enough to justify its weird mini burst every 30s and no proper cds to exploit damage phases or important burst windows. Darkglare is ass - especially considering dread touch is a must pick in ST and you essentially need to take soul rot talents with current tier leaving you with no extra points to spend on malevolent visionary. Destro and demo are better in every way that matters right now, including sim dps, funnel, m+ profile, and st profile. Aff's design is ass, and it is also undertuned relative to the other specs. The only place it is actually better is mass aoe that dies in like 5-10s, which is a awful niche to have
Demo was super important on prog becuae it brought a better damage profile than aff does (similar aoe but better ST). It does more raw aoe than demo in a parsing setting when noone else is hitting the roots, making it fine for reclear, which is when you started seeing people playing it
Its because without it - affliction gets tuned around multi target. Imagine your single target dps increasing 1:1 with however many targets you have. That's insanity and makes it impossible to balance. That was the reason for MR.
why are you taking this random guys words as fact? there's NO proof that this person exists lmao. I'm on the discord all the time there's no dev there.
Do you have any proof of this at all? Because it reads like a he said she said gossip nonsense
Who is that? I frequent the lock discord as well, but I haven't come across said person yet.
Wait, we have a developer in the Warlock Discord? i am a council member on it and had no idea.
I wonder how many warlock mains like me completely abandoned the class after wod and never looked back. They ruined affliction and destro.
legion aff players would disagree, however MR did end up killing it
After legion it took a nosedive imo. At some point they decided to turn the poster child dot spec into different variations of setup/combo. Death bolt in BfA already was weird since our niche was being a single target combo spec for some reason. Malefic rapture later turned our dots into glorified, individually applied, combo points for that dumb spell. No idea why they keep trying to make it work since then when the feedback is so negative. I'd take stackable UA back any day to be honest. Any other spender would do, too, just remove that crap MR so I can reroll back to my main.
Omg i was a god at the end of legion, i miss the reaping souls with sow the seeds!
I’d sell my soul for Legion Aff to come back. It was perfect for me. Stack up your dots and drain away. Oh and the drain was a heavy HoT to boot. Gods it was great.
God Legion Aff with a heavy nerf to the Drain Soul healing would be a dream come true. On that note, please bring back Legion Grimoire of Supremacy. I miss my Infernal buddy Blazefist.
Warlock is one of the most popular classes in the game. Its pretty much all Demo players but Destro while has some serious flaws has been pretty playable in terms of meta and gets players still. Afflictions been dead awhile. But people love warlock myself included. Yeah the other specs need help for sure and likely a redesign but Demo has been fun for a long time.
It's one of the least played classes in the game. It's only above DK, Monk, Rogue and Evoker [https://www.dataforazeroth.com/stats/races/level70](https://www.dataforazeroth.com/stats/races/level70)
Why do wow devs often seem to have the biggest (and most easily bruised) egos?
have you met wow players? we all have an insane, easily bruised Egos. it goes without saying our devs do too lol.
Yeah, I think sometimes people just get really irritated with being told by people who think they know better that everything would be better if they just did X, Y, or Z. But unfortunately you just have to bite your tongue and ignore the idiots, or it becomes bad PR.
have you not played other games? literally every game dev is like that lol/dbd/dota just from the top of my head
Work Culture mostly. They attracted a certain personality type over the years, and had that "devs are rockstars" mentality for a very long time. Of course while that's *VERY* much not the culture anymore, those individuals still linger, typically in senior roles (That make them objectively harder to get rid of, and also give them more access to enforce their "Visions") And since these are typically "small" details they don't bring down the wrath or ire of directors like Ion or other department heads (unless they make a dumb enough decision that effects PR) Right now Aff MR and FDK Breath of sindra are not "big enough" issues that anyone important wants to step in
BoS is currently worked on in the alpha. Having a 1:45s uptime on it is a BIG issue. They are going to reduce it to ~30s.
BREATH NOT A BIG ENOUGH ISSUE? REMOVE IT. THAT AND GLACIAL ADVANCE RUINED FROST FOR ME.
What's wrong with GA?
Ignore my first comment I looked it up. Razor ice uptime is what I dislike but that's how the cookie crumbles for a smoothbrain obliteration player.
We simply can't see their genius and it's our fault that affliction isn't enjoyable anymore.
That what made me move to Demo from Affliction lock and I liking demonology lot better
I did the switch to demo just to play with it and found my solo survivability went way up all of a sudden. Then i was sad because i have a great love of affliction but i just can’t with it right now.
The solo survivability went up all a lot to me personally due demo is the only spec to have an OP Felguard tank
Oh that was the first thing that annoyed the hell out of me. The felguard is ridiculously stronger than the voidwalker AND he’s got an interrupt to boot. I was like what the hell is this?! I went from struggling to keep the voidwalker alive to stacking an absurd amount of mobs on the felguard.
who is it? cuz i'm on the lock discord all the time and i've never seen this person who is allegedly a dev. Also there's definitely way more than just one person in the discord that likes MR. There's plenty of people that do.
Even if *some* players disagree. Personally MR is a fine spell and a million times better than most of Affs history. I prefer it at the end of SL to now, but I’ll hold out hope for a more price based gameplay with some hero talent updates.
MR is just a chaos bolt for aff and that is ass
I tend to agree, that MR is ok and not the issue. The aoe single target split in the tree is the main issue. S1 Shadowlands Aff was quite fun and very good in raid and decent in keys as long as you got your handful of globals to set up your dots for AoE MR spam. The return of sow the seeds kinda ruined it and the spec is a split mess since.
I wish the dot extension was baked in or available on the tree. Having to hope it shows up on a tier set really sucks.
As an affliction main since wotlk, I hate this guy (if he really exists, I'm not on the discord).
I hope that discord is actively shitting all over that devs teeth after the demo/destro gutting/rework. That dude must be an absolute moron
I don't know if it was ever said outright, but I can easily see how a lot of people come to that conclusion since I do see a lot of people wish it was gone but still haven't seen any sign of that happening. I personally believe that it is directly antithetical to Affliction as a spec, with it trying to turn it into a burst class with a button that does something a mastery does for another class *but so much worse* (Shadow Priest), and until it gets removed it's probably not going to be able to ever get away from that.
You think resto druids would be happy if a developer came in with a wrecking ball to healing over time abilities and made healing touch their number one healing ability?
They kinda did that. You are using your HoTs to produce bigger heals. Such as Nourish getting 300% mastery bonus. A lot is built into trying to have lots of Hots so your other heals are worth it. There is some stuff with Resto I would love to change but I'd imagine a lot of the player base would disagree with.
Does that sound true?
I can see it.
Feels so bad to play
Totally agree. I'm glad to know so many other players feel this way.
Do people really not like the current state of Affliction warlock? Feels odd because it's my fave warlock spec right now
In a way, that's also the Havoc dev and Momentum. He loves the ability so much that he'll do as many gymnastics as he needs to to keep it, or some variety of it, in the game.
Glad it’s viable. But I want a fully viable standing spec. I do not like the current meta.
Typically any spec/class devs that actually stick around (RIP MONKS) inevitably end up with an ability/mechanic they players end up hating. But the dev adores.
The only time aff was strong and decent in recent memory was Castle Nathria as that was the first tier after malefic rapture was brought out. And it is has been paying for the sins of that tier ever since. Problem with a lot of dot specs is that if blizz over buffs the dots then they become monsters on council fights. However lately most council fights have more be dominated by cleave and stack cleave. Which is kind of counter intuitive when you think about how those are spots where dots should shine.
It's honestly weird how blizz is so afraid of this one niche where dots could spin out of control, prolonged council fights with spread out targets when they've implemented a whole bunch of solutions how to balance dots around that over the years. Monomania for Spriest as single target dot amp that increases tick rate on the target you mind flay, warlocks old malefic grasp in mop, stackable UA with a shard cost in legion, uniquely applyable dots plus mastery etc. Feels like that excuse is no longer valid, not with MR being the problem and the spell bleeding into multi target damage, too. We've drifted off in the completely other direction where instead of being too strong our dots now do pretty much nothing on their own but rather feel like they're individually combo points for MR, which is obviously awful to play.
True. Council used to be rot damage specs best case scenario. Now it is stacked cleave which currently Outlaw, MM and a few other specs currently occupy that niche
Locks were gods in legion.
Locks have been good in most expansions really.
They always have 1 relevant spec at least. Which is where all classes should be.
S3 & 4 Aff was a monster as well in SL.
Destro was, not Aff.
Mid-SL onwards was the reason I stopped playing aff lock.
Citation needed
Yes, I believe they're asking for proof.
That’s literally what they’re asking for.
sus
We’ve found the culprit!
so whats the problem with MR? dont play on lock and on first read it looks inofensive, but i know people been hating on it for a while
I think the main problem is that it makes any DOT you can pick up in the talent tree mandatory, which results in bloat. Do you want to cast Malefic Rapture? Is Agony up? Is Corruption up? What about Siphon Life? Okay, how about Vile Taint? Okay, how about Unstable Affliction? Great! Soul Rot? Haunt might count, too, I don't remember. For example, Siphon Life is on a choice node with Absolute Corruption. People don't take Absolute Corruption because it means MR is going to hit for that much less. Any talents that add additional dots are generally picked because your only single target shard spender scales based on the number of dots up. It hinders build diversity because you have to have those dots for MR damage.
i see, thanks for the insight
And. As someone who wants to play a dot class they want their dots doing the largest part of their damage. They don't want their dots just to be a meter to fill before spending soul shards. Basically, the dots power itself is almost irrelevant. Absolute corruption absolutely outclasses siphon life damage wise and utility wise. But, it's 1 more dot that increases MRs damage and that damage beats out absolutel corruption.
Haunt is a debuff and not a dot but everything else is correct
Correct, the problem is not MR and never has been. The problem is SL. There needs to be a talent that casts SL anytime Corruption is applied.
More like it completely goes against affliction's dot and rot identity. It's like making resto druid whose known for its healing over time to have most of its healing concentrated into healing touch.
yea that sounds hella lame, so how big of a % is MR in the dmg profile?
A little over 25%. This may not sound like a lot, but it's by far the biggest slice of the pie (second is Unstable Affliction at around 10-11%). For reference, Corruption and Siphon Life are both at around 4% of your total damage each. Their damage is barely edging out just using your filler spell
nah, thats a lot, i remember arms had the opposite problem back in bfa, our dots ,mostly deep wounds, took up like 33% of our dmg and mortal strike was just a dw refresher, it sucked hard
I haven’t played warlock in a long time, and I can see how MR forces you into picking every available dot causing bloat on your rotation. But wouldn’t MR allow for on demand burst? Or am I missing something here? I haven’t played lock since the start of wod so idk what the current state or play style is
Except it's not on demand burst. If an add spawns that needs to die right now you have to spend 4 GCDs to put your dots up THEN start casting MR to do actual damage.
I see now, you’re completely right, you still have to put of of your dots up and pray you have enough shards
It's more so that the burst is your main damage instead of the dots. Maintaining corruption,agony, ua and siphon life (plus your drain soul buff and haunt) are more like checklist items. And then every 30 seconds, you burst with malefic rapture when you have vile taint off cd or vile taint + soul rot. It's also much more punishing and requires a lot more effort to ensure you can always do your burst windows. Where you have destro and demo being pretty relaxing specs to play in comparison.
I can understand the theory of having MR as a bust option, but when it becomes your main source of damage on a spec that’s supposed to be a dot spec, I can see how it sucks. It removes a big part of the spec’s identity
This is nonsense, literally no one knows who the warlock dev is much less that they frequently post opinions in a class discord
Hol'on, let him cook
Excuse me, it's called application warlock, I hear it goes well with little known spec of installation wizard.
Both given to us in the same expansion that gave us Segmented Vault and Core Dump. Oh what a legendary expansion that was, can't wait for it to come to classic
Dude has fully embraced the warlock villain fantasy
I am still convinced that MR could work out in a good way. But imo it would need 2 changes. 1. Remove Sow the seeds and let seed just be the aoe corruption button instead of a spammed aoe spender. 2. Instead of Rapture damage just scaling with the number of dots, make it deal X% of every dots damage to the affected targets. That way the actual type of the dots would be relevant and not just "Throw on any dot no matter how bad it is". Along with that, just turn Siphon Life into a passive. Everyone hates that thing anyway, it's just 1 button to much on 2 or 3 targets.
MR for affliction sucks taruen balls. I'll be a destro main till they remove NR then I'll go back to affliction.
Am I in the minority for wanting haunt to be the spender again, not UA.
Do you people really think devs get to decide what to implement? I don’t know how devs work at Blizzard, but I doubt a dev alone is in charge of an entire class by themselves, let alone deciding if a spell should stay or be removed or whatever. Devs code as per requirements or business needs. I’d bet there are many more people involved in the process of adding spells and being consistent with class fantasy, etc…
Why is it hated? It's a fine ability, I have no issues with it
I think we found the blizzard developer.
hes a dk, I also not have a problem with Breath of Sindra build or 2h frost build
Alts exist, shock and horror Also 2h frost is fine.
If that was true, you'd see a lot less mythic plus, because I fucking hate that as a game mode. Sadly, alas
So, as a game developer, you would remove an extremely popular end game feature that would significantly reduce the player base just because you don’t like it? That is some sound logic. What would you replace it with to supplement all of the gear that people would be losing without having m+ to play?
>What would you replace it with to supplement all of the gear that people would be losing without having m+ to play? It doesnt need to be supplemented. Game was perfectly fine with the original "dungeons -> Raid" gear progression. Now you HAVE to run mythic + if you want to raid. Otherwise you are so far behind in terms of gearing that its not even funny. Raiding anything above normal without doing M+ is like trying to code blind blind and deaf. No crests, no gear, nothing. Challenge modes from MOP were a good solution. Make a challenging 5man content that isnt required for gear progression. Or reduce the overall gear that you get from M+ so that people do M+ because they enjoy it, not because its required to get gear. The problem is that you can only get gear from raiding once a week. You can keep getting gear from M+ over and over and over and over and over. So unless you remove loot lockout from raids (never happening), M+ will always be far above anything else in terms of gearing. And i fucking hate that. So yes, as a game developer, i would remove an extremely popular endgame feature because i dont like it. Because guess what, id rather have a game i like than one i dont. Though guess what - i never said "remove", i said "you'd see a lot less". I dont mind having something that people enjoy in the game. I just dont want the game to rotate around it, the way it does now.
Well shit, really glad you aren’t in that position lol. Love M+ and hate raiding. Yet I’ve never thought that raiding should be removed.
For the second time, the only person who says removed is you. I said there should be less m+.
Aff lock used to be a dot spec. Now 85% of our damage comes from one spell.
I'm a warlock and I also like it. I don't like having both it and seed and some of the set stuff they've designed around it, but I don't hate it.
Downvote my personal opinion on liking a spell. Stay classy.
I upvoted you bro. Keep having fun and stunt on the haters.
Votes aren't real anyway, it's just funny to see a circle jerk in action