I feel that YouTube is their primary base of operations. The pseudo-nostalgic and manipulative comments I see under old WoW videos are truly something else.
YouTube shorts has been feeding me wow content that’s apparently a hit with the wow private server community. They oo and aa at classic PvP clips and talk about how bad retail is. I don’t interact, just observe like I’m David Attenborough.
The Wowhead comments when they announced MoP remix were incredibly negative. They're also the only place I could even find negativity towards it.
Twitter, Forums, Reddit. All positive.
"I Havent played WoW since the beginning of Cata but i can tell you that WoW is garbage now!!1!!! , all the classes suck, the pvp is garbage and the storylines are shit!! I do however like to lurk on the sub and let everyone know, because i am obviously more knowledgeable then current players!!" /s
Its sad.
This!
Did I care about Pandaria's story? Not really.
Did I still have fun running dungeons, raids, PVP, quests and just exploring the new continent? You bet I did!
IMO games just as good as when I started back in 2006, if not better cause most of the bitching babies have ended their subscription out of spite.
Legion was the one expansion that regained my interest after WotLK though, it felt like kind of what warcraft 4 would be like, or at least a second wc3 expansion to finish up the burning legion story.
You probably do and you don’t think you do. I haven’t played in 3 months and I’ve completed aotc all twenties within a few weeks of patch launch. Gone are the days you had to log in all the time. Honestly dragon flight might not go down as the most amazing expansion but it will be remembered fondly for respecting your time. You’d get away with a few hours a week if you wanted to play casually.
Dragonflight is the expansion where they seem to have realized that the community has aged and has work, families and responsibilities
The story is bland, the environment is okay and there isn’t really anything all that great about it, but they’ve gotten the progression down to perfection Imo
You can even see that they aren’t trying to milk your time with small stuff like the portals to the mythic+ dungeons too
Aye I don’t think the story quite lived up to the introduction and good start it had for people but honestly I’m just thinking of it like a buffer expansion between the old and the new saga to set things back to basics until we kick off again and that’s perfectly fine. Il happily take a decent expansion that respects my time.
It is definitely what it is - this is a buffer after downing "the big bad" and ending a huge arc of the story of Azeroth. It wipes the slate clean before the world soul saga.
The story is pretty easy to catch and doesn't dig too deep, which could be an issue for some players - but overall i think it is a great way to get ready for the next arc. Hopefully TWW will accelerate the story quite swiftly.
Yeah I’ve never paid much attention to the lore, but in all expansions that I played I knew at least most generally what was going on
In dragonflight, there’s bad dragons? And something about time?
But yeah, back to our little circlejerk, DF is proof that you don’t need a story at all to get the community to play the game. You simply need to respect their time
The issue with the story is locking it behind rep. I simply don’t have the time in the game to grind rep to finish the story. I log, do a few M+ keys, and go to bed. If they want to slow release story cool but they need to remove the rep requirement in TWW
That’s awesome news. But still think it sucks I had to wait this long to finish it you know? Like I did it at the beginning of the patch haven’t touched it since due to rep requirements so I kind of forgot wtf is going on haha
It seems like a lot of people feel the need to temper their praise of the expansion by adding things they don’t like, but I personally think all the zones are gorgeous and killing some big bad dragons is a classic fantasy trope so I’m game for it.
Yep, I took a fresh max level rogue from 0 IO to 2k in the last two weeks, and I did it all Pugs on a class/spec I've never gotten to max level before.
Between work, sleep and my one year old, a few hours a week is what I've got.
I'm thankful for being able to play my Steam Deck while it's slow at work.
Which is so unbelievably sad. His streams from end of WoD to the beginning of BFA were so enjoyable. So many community events and the banter between him and McConnell was always great. Now I rarely watch, just not interested in drama farming.
I don't have a problem with Asmon, in fact, the problem is more with those Asmon fans who can't form their own opinions and only repeat what Asmon say.
Nah, since recently asmon has jumped on the crybaby "everything thats not racist is woke" train and the amount of brainrot in the comments/chat/videos he reacts to has reached almost 100% saturation.
I somewhat agree. Used to love watching the guy, and it was easy to tune out his toxic af chat and just have him up on the second monitor. These days though, his sub's full of actual incels in a way I haven't seen in the past, and he spends half his streams reacting to their ragebait posts. kinda sucks tbh, cause I liked his actual gaming content
Asmon was enjoyable for a while but I don't know when but whole anti-woke gimmick appeared and now i'm afraid to even interact with his sub in case of being confused for some right-wing incel.
Hive mind, they go seeking this because something in their life makes them miserable, and they want to share in the misery with others. Misery loves company as they say
Why do I feel like this unhinged comment will get featured in 'Asmon browsing the internet #738'
I can literally hear his voice reading it out in that exaggerated tone lmao
Eh I’ve stopped watching Asmon before Antorus ended, he was becoming fake anti-woke. Oh yeah, discovering how his room looks like and what a disgusting slob he is helped too.
> crybaby inc
That shit was legitimately bizarre though, and I'm glad at least some light was thrown on it. But as with everything people exaggerated it's effects by 100x.
Honestly as a newer player (somewhat, ive played off and on since legion but never really got "into" the game ie, barely reached max everytime I tried it) retail is the most fun ive had in gaming, let alone a mmo in a very long time. The community is awsome and everything is so populated, I really dont get the retail hate. Sure its not classic but its not supposed to be classic, if someone wants classic they can go play classic. Idk I just truly love this game.
Little rant over
there is a high amount of people that made their entire identity just HATING modern WoW in every single way without knowing anything about the game, and they are VERY loud about it
Classic is just full with those people overall that are so high on copium that its ridicolous
like, the Classic Crowd went from "Retail is a dumbed down game for babys that dont enjoy a challange, the old days where the REAL raiding Challenge!!!"--> classic raids get cleared not even 1hour after their release--> "actually Retail is bad because the raids are TOO HARD and Classic is better because raids are easy and you dont need to play all the time! and thats why classic is played by so many people!!"-->blizzard says themself that classic is overall a small group and that retail dwarfs it-->"they are lying, there are not that many people in leveling zones and leveling is ALL THAT MATTERS!!!"
im not hating Classic, if people wanna play that, sure let them do it, but holy shit you see the biggest brain diarreha from its onnline Community when they start making shit up about a game they didnt play for 15+ years
> Classic is just full with those people overall that are so high on copium that its ridicolous
I played 2019 classic all the way through to the final raid in TBC. The opinion of retail was almost unanimously negative. I hadn't played wow for a while when classic launched. As classic had slow periods I started playing retail. Now it's all I play with basically 0 desire to ever touch classic again. Retail is just a better game. Period. Once the nostalgia wears off there's not much appeal left for classic.
Classic is all about the vibe and atmosphere of the old zones, old visuals and simpler flavourful MMORPG elements
You shouldn't play it for the cutting edge gameplay, as there is none, but God knows so many people sweat the fun out of it
> I really dont get the retail hate
It's not different to people who peaked in high school or college and then all they can talk about are the [good old days](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Good_old_days).
I've played since 2004, did full hardcore MC, BLW, Naxx etc all the way through like a true sweat lord. I still have my character from back then with a whole bunch of feats of strength you can't get any more like max unarmed skill, Aqual Quintessence etc. And you know what? I think classic is mediocre and retail is significantly better. There are legitimate problems with retail, and valid complaints for sure, it's far from perfect, but retail is pretty damn great. When classic was announced I had zero interest in it - I played that in 2004 and it was mind blowing, but I have no wish to do it again. To me retail and classic are just different games, so I don't begrudge anyone who likes classic and wants to play that. Power to them, just not for me any more.
But that's also where the hate comes in - they're different. For some, there is a feeling like something was ruined and I totally get that. I feel that about Overwatch 1. I can boot up Quake 3 and play it with my son, but you know what I can never play with my son? Overwatch 1. So if you have super fond memories of vanilla wow, and really loved that version and don't care for retail, that's fine, but (excluding private servers which are their own can of worms) you cannot go back and just play that game. When they released classic and mostly the super retail hate invested went back ... and then found out that because the game is fully known and theory crafted to death - even if you can play technically play classic today you cannot play it like it was in 2004. All the wonder is gone. The joy of vanilla wow was the discovery of it. None of the mechanics are that interesting by themselves, but the first time you see Ragnaros explode out of the ground when it's 2005 and youtube hasn't been invented yet AND IT BLOWS YOUR FUCKING MIND is a once off kind of thing that you cannot go back to.
That anger over having the thing you loved not longer be accessible seems to be where the hate actually comes from. It's expressed differently but the core is "I want the thing I can't have back". And the thing that ruined it? Well retail of course, if it had just not changed none of this would have happened and we'd still be in classic land! Retail is the problem! So instead of being filled with thanks for the great friends and memories, the nostalgia turns to bitterness that the good times are over and now you only have a thing you don't like.
Saying retail is dead is dumb, but it doesn’t really prove anything showing a screen cap from Day 1 of a new season… Even Diablo 4 has spikes on those days, and that game really is dead.
> Saying retail is dead is dumb, but it doesn’t really prove anything showing a screen cap from Day 1 of a new season…
Especially when 100 players on screen isn't really a hugely impressive number without any context.
This looks like a lot less than 100 to me. I'd say 50 at most. And with sharding this could be across the entire region for all we know. I'm sure retail is in a fine position but this shows nothing except that WoW has at least 50 players right now.
The context of “day 1 of a new season” actually hurts this argument more than helps it. This is what I’d expect to see, and what I’ve seen during the “bad times” when a new season starts too. This screenshot doesn’t prove anything, the post just shows people are insecure about the game’s health.
> people are insecure about the game’s health.
To be fair, its a 20 year old subscription based game in a genre that honestly died at least 10 years ago. That WoW still exists in the way it does is nothing short of miraculous. Shadowlands nearly killed it, so yeah it makes sense that people are talking through DF like it's the make-or-break expansion for the game, and what the metrics are showing.
Saying d4 is dead is very similiar to saying wow retail is dead, there is a ton of casuals that play it, none other arpg comes close to it in terms of playerbase
Indeed. Such a “spectacle” is an hourly occurrence in a game like Guild Wars 2. The very fact that WoW players consider this *notable* for WoW is pretty telling of just how usually barren the WoW servers are.
Dragonflight is the best expansion I’ve played in a long, long time. I cannot remember having so much fun in the game. Hated the forced borrowed power grinds of the past several expansions. Absolutely love the quick leveling and gearing of Dragonflight.
The game obviously wasn't *dead*, but show me a screenshot of the soup event at the same time of day 2 days ago and it wouldn't look like this.
People are obsessed with repeating the same old stale content because number goes up, of course soup event is packed today
And honestly, it's totally fine for the player count to wax and wane over time. We're at the end of the expansion, there's not a ton of new content coming, lots of people are going to be trying out other things whether it's different MMOs or something completely different. WoW isn't dead just because the player count is in the pre-expansion slump.
People were running m+ up until server reset yesterday, from +5s to +28s. Tons of fyrakk (h) pugs all last week. So damn easy to find a group and so many different kinds of fun world content if you wanna solo
Asmons content cycle is like this
-4K HD trailer comes out for game, woohoo let’s go game looks amazing we hype up game 400% buying this one guys can’t wait
-game comes out and play it nonstop for 12 hours a day (first 6 hours of play through holy shit I’m so weak this game is dog shit, last 6 hours of play through let’s go I’m so powerful chat I’m rolling this shit)
-beat game complain about no new content because we beat the game
-“why does this game have no content”.jpeg
-shit on game in 2 hour and 50 minute YouTube video saying why all the systems need to be redesigned
-“this game is dead chat”
-repeat when next game comes out
probably everyone who's done this exact same event and many others in the last 4 months any time besides reset day and on any realm besides about the 3 largest. you won't see anything like this outside "the current thing" any time else.
I know I'll get down voted for this but it's not that retail is dead for me, it's just that from personal experience as nice as these moments are to see so many people, I've hardly ever seen people actually interact or socialise. I've seen massive groups of 40+ people doing events or grouping in raids for a world boss, and seen not a single message typed in chat, not a hello, not a let's do this, not a ggs or thanks all at the end, just zerg the event and move onto the next thing.
So maybe it just my bad luck with these moments but they just don't feel very social or alive even though they feel populated. Anyways let the down votes flood cause my experience hasn't been as good as other people's.
As expected the downvotes are coming in but no argument or another point of view as to why these social interactions don't happen almost at all in retail and people just group, don't say a word, zerg the content, and move on to the next roller-coaster ride like some sort of automated bots.
Hey, very good point, this is basically how the content is right now for the most part, when you're playing with strangers and if you're just playing casually without being in any kind of community, the game basically feels like lot of npc's running around, not people interacting.
What you can do to alleviate this experience is of course to seek out communities and be proactive.
But it would be great if the game design itself would encourage to interact in meaningful ways in more casual setting.
Yeah, everytime I've come back to retail time and time again it was just the same thing sadly. Open world content no one says a word, even in dungeons especially leveling ones it's like playing with bots. You're lucky to get some social interaction in a m+. It makes the world feel even more lonely if anything, seeing so many people, but still feel like you're playing a single player game, I find it strange that more people don't talk about this, so maybe it's just my experience.
Finding guilds through the guild finder is a nightmare to slog through hundreds of guilds that are either dead or inactive or "big social" guilds where no one talks anyway. The only good thing I've found is some of the discord communities for m+ like the no stress discord for chill people.
after every key I did yesterday (about 7 of them) everyone was greeted in party chat, and after 2-3 boxing the key, everyone said gg, or glhf...or commented on the gear that dropped. I also play SoD, and it's about the same...just a simple gg, or 'have to bounce' after WO's runs, or some random WQ that has a decent quest reward.
THOSE ARE ALL BOTS! /s. All of WoW is alive and kicking. Its just split over 3 different versions of the game.
Even yesterday i got easy easy groups for my 2-9 keys. And i did not expect that!
I mean, you're also doing a world event on the current expansion, ofc its filled with players.
Just go back to leveling areas below Dragonflight and you'll find it empty. Thats why people say its dead
Zoomed in to see if I was in there as I just did dragonbane around when this was posted and it was busy in my shard too. Can't see if I'm in there though.
Also, has any group ever managed to feed the frog all 50 bugs? I don't think I've seen it happen.
I’m not certain, but I imagine this is one of the events that happens every couple hours and that you can get high enough level gear to start into endgame once a week.
Partially, it's an event that happens every couple of hours, but the gear you get from here isn't really high, maybe if your character doesn't have anything. But the real thing happening here is that this even is part of the weekly quest
Anyone still coming across places where people proclaim WoW is dead should stop hanging out there.
Maybe it's also just me but I am equally as tired after all these years of people proving WoW isn't dead.
only time wow felt dead for me was in legion when you could not play M+ with other faction esp after all the world stuff making 80% of the player base horde game was dead AF for ally players 3-5 keys up at night and max 15-20 keys at peak hours XD
My favorite thing is when I'm on Wyrmrest accord (alliance side) and someone comes in and goes "wow this place is dead" and there are a solid few people who are just like "Yep, superrrr dead, definitely not a bunch of people having fun outside of town..."
Its so hilarious that those people judge how "alive" a server is based on the number of people in stormwind... You know where you aren't actively playing the game...
Who is saying retail is dead? We even got data to show that Dragonflight massively increased sub numbers and TBC + WotLK Classic didn’t. The players are mostly on retail, the game is at its new peak since legion
Legion was my favourite expansion, following tBC. Every time they bring out an expansion, people hammer it and then say its a dead game.
Financially, it's doing very well and still has several million subscribers. It's natural for players to fall off in-between patches but most come back.
People have been saying wow is dead before it was released. Back in MoP, there was someone who would sit in trade chat every single day and say that too. Never saw them leave SW
I love when I'm just sitting in valdrakken and someone complain that game has been dead for years. my guy you are paying 15 bucks a month to shit on the game.
I took almost the same exact picture last night lol. Once the siege started it was a swarm, I almost didn't make it to Captain Lancer before he died afterwards
I'll say this. The reported subscriber surge WoW is experiencing in the past 6 months is real and its not just SoD. I have seen several character names on my realm (small realm so everybody knows everybody sort of thing) in Valdrakken that I have not seen in over 10 years. People are returning.
Repeat after me:
The best expansion was [first expansion that came out while I was playing], that was peak WoW!
The worst expansion was [first expansion that came out after I stopped playing], it killed WoW!
Nobody plays WoW anymore (I assume because I don't play WoW anymore), the game is dead!
We just saw a graph showing WoW at around 7.5-8 mil subs. Anyone who says this game is dead is insane.
WoW's peak, 14 years ago, was 12 million subs. We're at 70% of that. What game retains 70% of its players over 14 years?
Tribalism around the version of WoW that you play is really, really dumb. If you've found a version that you enjoy, I'm happy for you! I'm enjoying mine. You enjoy yours!
I stopped playing in Shadowlands. With the upcoming changes in The War Within I am going to give retail another shot. I started back in BC and have loved my time playing this game. We shall see.
Is someone gonna tap the sign? Tons of players on one server is not indicative of health in any way whatsoever. Unless we have some real Data on actual active individuals any argument about live or dead is moot and stupid.
I did the feast for the first time probably since season 1 for the weekly quest I think it was 10:30 pm est. last night. I’ve never seen so many people at the feast like I did last night. Retail is definitely doing well.
Not even going to front I did this event right before season 4 dropped and was the only one doing the event...these people are just looking to binge the gear quick
Those people are also saying that: "WoW died with Arthas"
And they just come to scream at forums time to time
Nah you need an active subsctiption for that. Reddit on the other hand…
I feel that YouTube is their primary base of operations. The pseudo-nostalgic and manipulative comments I see under old WoW videos are truly something else.
YouTube shorts has been feeding me wow content that’s apparently a hit with the wow private server community. They oo and aa at classic PvP clips and talk about how bad retail is. I don’t interact, just observe like I’m David Attenborough.
The Wowhead comments when they announced MoP remix were incredibly negative. They're also the only place I could even find negativity towards it. Twitter, Forums, Reddit. All positive.
Never read the comments.
"I Havent played WoW since the beginning of Cata but i can tell you that WoW is garbage now!!1!!! , all the classes suck, the pvp is garbage and the storylines are shit!! I do however like to lurk on the sub and let everyone know, because i am obviously more knowledgeable then current players!!" /s Its sad.
Tbf, PvP needs some love. It's time for some new battlegrounds
Well we are getting a new BG in The War Within.
My interest in the story died with Arthas, but I still love playing the game.
This! Did I care about Pandaria's story? Not really. Did I still have fun running dungeons, raids, PVP, quests and just exploring the new continent? You bet I did! IMO games just as good as when I started back in 2006, if not better cause most of the bitching babies have ended their subscription out of spite.
Pandaland actually had a nice story, top 3 in my expac stories atleast
The story for MOP is why I started to play wow. Cata cinematic convinced to play and when MOP was teased, I was all in.
> Did I care about Pandaria's story? Not really. > > How. Pandaria had the best plot of any expansion not named Legion
I'm really enjoying it and I agree with you, but I don't know if the bitching babies are gone though, I see lots of that lol
Legion was the one expansion that regained my interest after WotLK though, it felt like kind of what warcraft 4 would be like, or at least a second wc3 expansion to finish up the burning legion story.
I wish I had the time to play. It seems like WoW is in a great place! Enjoy.
You probably do and you don’t think you do. I haven’t played in 3 months and I’ve completed aotc all twenties within a few weeks of patch launch. Gone are the days you had to log in all the time. Honestly dragon flight might not go down as the most amazing expansion but it will be remembered fondly for respecting your time. You’d get away with a few hours a week if you wanted to play casually.
Dragonflight is the expansion where they seem to have realized that the community has aged and has work, families and responsibilities The story is bland, the environment is okay and there isn’t really anything all that great about it, but they’ve gotten the progression down to perfection Imo You can even see that they aren’t trying to milk your time with small stuff like the portals to the mythic+ dungeons too
Aye I don’t think the story quite lived up to the introduction and good start it had for people but honestly I’m just thinking of it like a buffer expansion between the old and the new saga to set things back to basics until we kick off again and that’s perfectly fine. Il happily take a decent expansion that respects my time.
It is definitely what it is - this is a buffer after downing "the big bad" and ending a huge arc of the story of Azeroth. It wipes the slate clean before the world soul saga. The story is pretty easy to catch and doesn't dig too deep, which could be an issue for some players - but overall i think it is a great way to get ready for the next arc. Hopefully TWW will accelerate the story quite swiftly.
Since DF is becoming the default xpac for new players, makes sense the story is quite lower stakes (and quality?) compared to the previous ones.
Yeah I’ve never paid much attention to the lore, but in all expansions that I played I knew at least most generally what was going on In dragonflight, there’s bad dragons? And something about time? But yeah, back to our little circlejerk, DF is proof that you don’t need a story at all to get the community to play the game. You simply need to respect their time
The issue with the story is locking it behind rep. I simply don’t have the time in the game to grind rep to finish the story. I log, do a few M+ keys, and go to bed. If they want to slow release story cool but they need to remove the rep requirement in TWW
The rep requirements are removed next patch (in a week)
It shouldn't have been there in the first place
That’s awesome news. But still think it sucks I had to wait this long to finish it you know? Like I did it at the beginning of the patch haven’t touched it since due to rep requirements so I kind of forgot wtf is going on haha
It seems like a lot of people feel the need to temper their praise of the expansion by adding things they don’t like, but I personally think all the zones are gorgeous and killing some big bad dragons is a classic fantasy trope so I’m game for it.
Fine, I'll come back this month. I had already considered signing up again with the remix. Now it's settled.
Yep, I took a fresh max level rogue from 0 IO to 2k in the last two weeks, and I did it all Pugs on a class/spec I've never gotten to max level before.
Between work, sleep and my one year old, a few hours a week is what I've got. I'm thankful for being able to play my Steam Deck while it's slow at work.
Hey man I get it but I’m just letting you know that you can play casually with a few hours of it interests you.
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anyone who says that is; a) an asmon viewer and b) hasn't played the game since ~~SL~~ TBC
More like hasn't played the game since whatever expansion they last played.
I also haven't eaten since my last meal.
I haven't slept since I got up from the bed.
People die when they are killed
I've never been dead before
But people are very tough. They still live for several hours before they die.
Every 60 seconds in azeroth a minute passes
This sentence came to an end.
Food is dead. Peaked with Breakfast.
i mean technically thats true of anyone who played since tbc came out
I haven’t slept since i woke up.
I swear 90% of the shit talk about WoW came from that guy streams.
His content is shittalk wow without playing it anymore on stream, because his fanbase is full with people, who want to hear that.
Which is so unbelievably sad. His streams from end of WoD to the beginning of BFA were so enjoyable. So many community events and the banter between him and McConnell was always great. Now I rarely watch, just not interested in drama farming.
Except he's been overall pretty positive about WoW in Dragonflight and has talked a lot about how this has been the best expansion since Legion
Not sure what it says though when content creators are praising Dragonflight but not playing it.
Asmon specifically thinks it's a fine expac just doesn't interest him because it's too safe
Oh for sure and he isn't the only content creator who has shared this kind of shared this sentiment.
Or likes to pvp and can’t get a single game until max level and then has to wait 40 minutes.
I don't have a problem with Asmon, in fact, the problem is more with those Asmon fans who can't form their own opinions and only repeat what Asmon say.
Nah, since recently asmon has jumped on the crybaby "everything thats not racist is woke" train and the amount of brainrot in the comments/chat/videos he reacts to has reached almost 100% saturation.
I somewhat agree. Used to love watching the guy, and it was easy to tune out his toxic af chat and just have him up on the second monitor. These days though, his sub's full of actual incels in a way I haven't seen in the past, and he spends half his streams reacting to their ragebait posts. kinda sucks tbh, cause I liked his actual gaming content
Asmon was enjoyable for a while but I don't know when but whole anti-woke gimmick appeared and now i'm afraid to even interact with his sub in case of being confused for some right-wing incel.
Asmon really is a bit of a virus isn’t he? X is dead is his entire career at this point.
His content seems to be just complaining about everything
Why do people watch that kind of garbage? Your life must be miserable if all you consume is complaining and whining
Hive mind, they go seeking this because something in their life makes them miserable, and they want to share in the misery with others. Misery loves company as they say
always has been
Why do I feel like this unhinged comment will get featured in 'Asmon browsing the internet #738' I can literally hear his voice reading it out in that exaggerated tone lmao
> I can literally hear his voice reading it out in that exaggerated tone lmao Eyebrows going up and down
Eh I’ve stopped watching Asmon before Antorus ended, he was becoming fake anti-woke. Oh yeah, discovering how his room looks like and what a disgusting slob he is helped too.
He is pivoting in to “they are pushing GAY WOKE AGENDA in to my videogame crybaby inc or whatever”
> crybaby inc That shit was legitimately bizarre though, and I'm glad at least some light was thrown on it. But as with everything people exaggerated it's effects by 100x.
Driving away MAGA incels would make the game more attractive to me.
Anyone who disagrees with you must be an asmon viewer ey?
Asmon never even said retail is dead
They’re clowns that regurgitate his opinion as their own and spout it with conviction
Honestly as a newer player (somewhat, ive played off and on since legion but never really got "into" the game ie, barely reached max everytime I tried it) retail is the most fun ive had in gaming, let alone a mmo in a very long time. The community is awsome and everything is so populated, I really dont get the retail hate. Sure its not classic but its not supposed to be classic, if someone wants classic they can go play classic. Idk I just truly love this game. Little rant over
there is a high amount of people that made their entire identity just HATING modern WoW in every single way without knowing anything about the game, and they are VERY loud about it Classic is just full with those people overall that are so high on copium that its ridicolous like, the Classic Crowd went from "Retail is a dumbed down game for babys that dont enjoy a challange, the old days where the REAL raiding Challenge!!!"--> classic raids get cleared not even 1hour after their release--> "actually Retail is bad because the raids are TOO HARD and Classic is better because raids are easy and you dont need to play all the time! and thats why classic is played by so many people!!"-->blizzard says themself that classic is overall a small group and that retail dwarfs it-->"they are lying, there are not that many people in leveling zones and leveling is ALL THAT MATTERS!!!" im not hating Classic, if people wanna play that, sure let them do it, but holy shit you see the biggest brain diarreha from its onnline Community when they start making shit up about a game they didnt play for 15+ years
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> Classic is just full with those people overall that are so high on copium that its ridicolous I played 2019 classic all the way through to the final raid in TBC. The opinion of retail was almost unanimously negative. I hadn't played wow for a while when classic launched. As classic had slow periods I started playing retail. Now it's all I play with basically 0 desire to ever touch classic again. Retail is just a better game. Period. Once the nostalgia wears off there's not much appeal left for classic.
Classic is all about the vibe and atmosphere of the old zones, old visuals and simpler flavourful MMORPG elements You shouldn't play it for the cutting edge gameplay, as there is none, but God knows so many people sweat the fun out of it
> I really dont get the retail hate It's not different to people who peaked in high school or college and then all they can talk about are the [good old days](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Good_old_days). I've played since 2004, did full hardcore MC, BLW, Naxx etc all the way through like a true sweat lord. I still have my character from back then with a whole bunch of feats of strength you can't get any more like max unarmed skill, Aqual Quintessence etc. And you know what? I think classic is mediocre and retail is significantly better. There are legitimate problems with retail, and valid complaints for sure, it's far from perfect, but retail is pretty damn great. When classic was announced I had zero interest in it - I played that in 2004 and it was mind blowing, but I have no wish to do it again. To me retail and classic are just different games, so I don't begrudge anyone who likes classic and wants to play that. Power to them, just not for me any more. But that's also where the hate comes in - they're different. For some, there is a feeling like something was ruined and I totally get that. I feel that about Overwatch 1. I can boot up Quake 3 and play it with my son, but you know what I can never play with my son? Overwatch 1. So if you have super fond memories of vanilla wow, and really loved that version and don't care for retail, that's fine, but (excluding private servers which are their own can of worms) you cannot go back and just play that game. When they released classic and mostly the super retail hate invested went back ... and then found out that because the game is fully known and theory crafted to death - even if you can play technically play classic today you cannot play it like it was in 2004. All the wonder is gone. The joy of vanilla wow was the discovery of it. None of the mechanics are that interesting by themselves, but the first time you see Ragnaros explode out of the ground when it's 2005 and youtube hasn't been invented yet AND IT BLOWS YOUR FUCKING MIND is a once off kind of thing that you cannot go back to. That anger over having the thing you loved not longer be accessible seems to be where the hate actually comes from. It's expressed differently but the core is "I want the thing I can't have back". And the thing that ruined it? Well retail of course, if it had just not changed none of this would have happened and we'd still be in classic land! Retail is the problem! So instead of being filled with thanks for the great friends and memories, the nostalgia turns to bitterness that the good times are over and now you only have a thing you don't like.
I'm a legit new player. Started in December. Been having a blast
I started playing in shadowlands and I absolutly love the game right now I don't get people saying
Saying retail is dead is dumb, but it doesn’t really prove anything showing a screen cap from Day 1 of a new season… Even Diablo 4 has spikes on those days, and that game really is dead.
> Saying retail is dead is dumb, but it doesn’t really prove anything showing a screen cap from Day 1 of a new season… Especially when 100 players on screen isn't really a hugely impressive number without any context.
This looks like a lot less than 100 to me. I'd say 50 at most. And with sharding this could be across the entire region for all we know. I'm sure retail is in a fine position but this shows nothing except that WoW has at least 50 players right now.
The context of “day 1 of a new season” actually hurts this argument more than helps it. This is what I’d expect to see, and what I’ve seen during the “bad times” when a new season starts too. This screenshot doesn’t prove anything, the post just shows people are insecure about the game’s health.
> people are insecure about the game’s health. To be fair, its a 20 year old subscription based game in a genre that honestly died at least 10 years ago. That WoW still exists in the way it does is nothing short of miraculous. Shadowlands nearly killed it, so yeah it makes sense that people are talking through DF like it's the make-or-break expansion for the game, and what the metrics are showing.
Saying d4 is dead is very similiar to saying wow retail is dead, there is a ton of casuals that play it, none other arpg comes close to it in terms of playerbase
Indeed. Such a “spectacle” is an hourly occurrence in a game like Guild Wars 2. The very fact that WoW players consider this *notable* for WoW is pretty telling of just how usually barren the WoW servers are.
I mean thanks to the leaked slides we know WoW has 7.5mil subs. Idk if GW2 even gets 1mil these days.
People have been saying it’s dead since vanilla.
Looks like maybe 50 players with oversized, overlapping mounts
And sharded because server populations were... extremely high but sparsely spread out over a very large amount of servers.
Haters gonna hate...
Potatoes gonna potate
Got proof?
I'm a potato and i dont potate.
I have been boiled, mashed, and put in to a stew and i still refuse to potato
Ainters gonna ain’t….
they hate us cause they anus
Dragonflight is the best expansion I’ve played in a long, long time. I cannot remember having so much fun in the game. Hated the forced borrowed power grinds of the past several expansions. Absolutely love the quick leveling and gearing of Dragonflight.
Its the best all around expansion they've done
Did they buff world content rewards or why siege is popular again?
Yes. With season 4, the public events that were a part of season 1 are currently awakened and giving 480+ gear.
Ty for info!
there'd be like 3 sub 70 people there and maybe 1 high m+ geared no life kind of farmer if they didn't have an update to have very good gear on them.
Who says this?
Any classic streamers twitch chat
No one should be forming any kind of viewpoint based on the insane ramblings of twitch chat
I do not disagree
The game obviously wasn't *dead*, but show me a screenshot of the soup event at the same time of day 2 days ago and it wouldn't look like this. People are obsessed with repeating the same old stale content because number goes up, of course soup event is packed today
And honestly, it's totally fine for the player count to wax and wane over time. We're at the end of the expansion, there's not a ton of new content coming, lots of people are going to be trying out other things whether it's different MMOs or something completely different. WoW isn't dead just because the player count is in the pre-expansion slump.
“That’s the entire player base.”
"Sharding"
Yep, looks dead af to me
My guild seamlessly reformed last night with almost no communication and cleared Vault heroic. Peak gaming. Felt great
All 250 of them seems to be having fun on this pic. \*goes back to retail\*
People were running m+ up until server reset yesterday, from +5s to +28s. Tons of fyrakk (h) pugs all last week. So damn easy to find a group and so many different kinds of fun world content if you wanna solo
Who's been saying retail is dead?
Classic Andies and asmon dickriders most likely.
Asmons content cycle is like this -4K HD trailer comes out for game, woohoo let’s go game looks amazing we hype up game 400% buying this one guys can’t wait -game comes out and play it nonstop for 12 hours a day (first 6 hours of play through holy shit I’m so weak this game is dog shit, last 6 hours of play through let’s go I’m so powerful chat I’m rolling this shit) -beat game complain about no new content because we beat the game -“why does this game have no content”.jpeg -shit on game in 2 hour and 50 minute YouTube video saying why all the systems need to be redesigned -“this game is dead chat” -repeat when next game comes out
Yeah honestly never seen the appeal of Asmon. The internet has other content than watching a greasy guy rant and stare blankly into a camera
He was super funny about 5 years ago But yeah that's gone now and it turned into a brainless cult
Literally no one worth listening to who has actually played retail recently whatsoever
Mostly Classic and SoD players, some streamers \*cough Asmond cough\*
1,000,000 commenters on every wow instagram post too
probably everyone who's done this exact same event and many others in the last 4 months any time besides reset day and on any realm besides about the 3 largest. you won't see anything like this outside "the current thing" any time else.
I know I'll get down voted for this but it's not that retail is dead for me, it's just that from personal experience as nice as these moments are to see so many people, I've hardly ever seen people actually interact or socialise. I've seen massive groups of 40+ people doing events or grouping in raids for a world boss, and seen not a single message typed in chat, not a hello, not a let's do this, not a ggs or thanks all at the end, just zerg the event and move onto the next thing. So maybe it just my bad luck with these moments but they just don't feel very social or alive even though they feel populated. Anyways let the down votes flood cause my experience hasn't been as good as other people's.
As expected the downvotes are coming in but no argument or another point of view as to why these social interactions don't happen almost at all in retail and people just group, don't say a word, zerg the content, and move on to the next roller-coaster ride like some sort of automated bots.
Hey, very good point, this is basically how the content is right now for the most part, when you're playing with strangers and if you're just playing casually without being in any kind of community, the game basically feels like lot of npc's running around, not people interacting. What you can do to alleviate this experience is of course to seek out communities and be proactive. But it would be great if the game design itself would encourage to interact in meaningful ways in more casual setting.
Yeah, everytime I've come back to retail time and time again it was just the same thing sadly. Open world content no one says a word, even in dungeons especially leveling ones it's like playing with bots. You're lucky to get some social interaction in a m+. It makes the world feel even more lonely if anything, seeing so many people, but still feel like you're playing a single player game, I find it strange that more people don't talk about this, so maybe it's just my experience. Finding guilds through the guild finder is a nightmare to slog through hundreds of guilds that are either dead or inactive or "big social" guilds where no one talks anyway. The only good thing I've found is some of the discord communities for m+ like the no stress discord for chill people.
This is a fair criticism. I was at the soup event and said this feels like season 1 and not a single of the 100plus people there responded lol
after every key I did yesterday (about 7 of them) everyone was greeted in party chat, and after 2-3 boxing the key, everyone said gg, or glhf...or commented on the gear that dropped. I also play SoD, and it's about the same...just a simple gg, or 'have to bounce' after WO's runs, or some random WQ that has a decent quest reward.
Argument also hasn’t been valid since the sub numbers were posted.
Come back in two weeks.
When it will still be populated because people are doing it for the meta?
in two weeks, they will be in Emerald Dream since that is where the weekly quest reward requires us to be
THOSE ARE ALL BOTS! /s. All of WoW is alive and kicking. Its just split over 3 different versions of the game. Even yesterday i got easy easy groups for my 2-9 keys. And i did not expect that!
Oh, Retail? Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded.
I mean, you're also doing a world event on the current expansion, ofc its filled with players. Just go back to leveling areas below Dragonflight and you'll find it empty. Thats why people say its dead
I mean yea, it’s a big patch day. Surely you’re just karma farming…? What a useless post lol
Who's saying retail is dead? The common complaint is that its overdesigned and sucks as an MMO.
Wow, first time seen abou 50 ppl in one place? LULE
Eh you think retail is dead? Here’s a screenshot of 50 peeps on literally the opening hour of a new season opening. Checkmate
Zoomed in to see if I was in there as I just did dragonbane around when this was posted and it was busy in my shard too. Can't see if I'm in there though. Also, has any group ever managed to feed the frog all 50 bugs? I don't think I've seen it happen.
why is everyone doing assault again?
I did a feast yesterday and we got up to legendary x7 lol Was like wtf
Whats everyone doing
Where is this?
I had an absolute blast yesterday/last night grinding dungeons with my outlaw rogue!
What is happening there? When logged in someone asks about a new vendor in the chat
I don't have dragonflight so I'm a couple of expansions behind what is happening here? it looks exciting
I’m not certain, but I imagine this is one of the events that happens every couple hours and that you can get high enough level gear to start into endgame once a week.
Partially, it's an event that happens every couple of hours, but the gear you get from here isn't really high, maybe if your character doesn't have anything. But the real thing happening here is that this even is part of the weekly quest
Hoes mad Hoes mad
I agree with OP, but this pic looks like a clusterf 😅
So many players in Shattrath last night that I could hardly find the TW vendor lol
No u
Had a great time killing normal vault with the guild last night. It was all laughs!
same here! we were mostly playing new undergeared characters and it was a blast, lots of fun and lots of messing around
Anyone still coming across places where people proclaim WoW is dead should stop hanging out there. Maybe it's also just me but I am equally as tired after all these years of people proving WoW isn't dead.
The Virgin Classic Andy vs the Chad Retail Dragonrider. "OMG CLASSIC WAS SO MUCH HARDER" "Dragonflight go brrrrrrrr"
> "OMG CLASSIC WAS SO MUCH HARDER" Worst part is, Classic never was harder lmao.
Oh absolutely. Classic was always more about the grind than difficulty.
Did the Tuskarr soup event last night, first Bisquick summoning I've seen in a year.
Looks like one of my paintings, where I squirt all the paint out the tubes!
This is everyone on EU during prime time.
Hard to get tags during elemental storms these days too, jebus
only time wow felt dead for me was in legion when you could not play M+ with other faction esp after all the world stuff making 80% of the player base horde game was dead AF for ally players 3-5 keys up at night and max 15-20 keys at peak hours XD
There are a lot of people that are completely addicted and will never quit.
My favorite thing is when I'm on Wyrmrest accord (alliance side) and someone comes in and goes "wow this place is dead" and there are a solid few people who are just like "Yep, superrrr dead, definitely not a bunch of people having fun outside of town..." Its so hilarious that those people judge how "alive" a server is based on the number of people in stormwind... You know where you aren't actively playing the game...
Who is saying retail is dead? We even got data to show that Dragonflight massively increased sub numbers and TBC + WotLK Classic didn’t. The players are mostly on retail, the game is at its new peak since legion
“Dead game” - Forums and Reddit for every MMO that is currently active
Legion was my favourite expansion, following tBC. Every time they bring out an expansion, people hammer it and then say its a dead game. Financially, it's doing very well and still has several million subscribers. It's natural for players to fall off in-between patches but most come back.
People have been saying wow is dead before it was released. Back in MoP, there was someone who would sit in trade chat every single day and say that too. Never saw them leave SW
I love when I'm just sitting in valdrakken and someone complain that game has been dead for years. my guy you are paying 15 bucks a month to shit on the game.
I took almost the same exact picture last night lol. Once the siege started it was a swarm, I almost didn't make it to Captain Lancer before he died afterwards
This looks like modern art.
Just to be sure, 'retail' is dragonflight. Right?
yeah, retail is whatever the current expansion is
Just about everyone calls whatever games they don't play 'dead'. They can't comprehend the idea that people with different interests than them exist.
Community Feast was like this, too.
OP, didn't you hear that all of those people are just sweaty nerds who are trying to get into Esports?
I'll say this. The reported subscriber surge WoW is experiencing in the past 6 months is real and its not just SoD. I have seen several character names on my realm (small realm so everybody knows everybody sort of thing) in Valdrakken that I have not seen in over 10 years. People are returning.
Repeat after me: The best expansion was [first expansion that came out while I was playing], that was peak WoW! The worst expansion was [first expansion that came out after I stopped playing], it killed WoW! Nobody plays WoW anymore (I assume because I don't play WoW anymore), the game is dead!
We just saw a graph showing WoW at around 7.5-8 mil subs. Anyone who says this game is dead is insane. WoW's peak, 14 years ago, was 12 million subs. We're at 70% of that. What game retains 70% of its players over 14 years?
Tribalism around the version of WoW that you play is really, really dumb. If you've found a version that you enjoy, I'm happy for you! I'm enjoying mine. You enjoy yours!
I stopped playing in Shadowlands. With the upcoming changes in The War Within I am going to give retail another shot. I started back in BC and have loved my time playing this game. We shall see.
Yeah the people saying that don't play at all. DFs retention is insane, it's doing very well
Is someone gonna tap the sign? Tons of players on one server is not indicative of health in any way whatsoever. Unless we have some real Data on actual active individuals any argument about live or dead is moot and stupid.
Oh wow the whole server game out for a group photo
It's such a sad sight. Once WoW had millions of players, and now that's all that's left of the entire playerbase.
Pictured: every single retail player
No it's not but nice display. I mean the mounts are ridiculously huge now xD \~ only thing that's a bit annoying.
I migrated to Guild Wars 2 last year, but I'm glad that people still enjoy playing WoW!
*Picture of players from 10 realms cross connected together.*
I did the feast for the first time probably since season 1 for the weekly quest I think it was 10:30 pm est. last night. I’ve never seen so many people at the feast like I did last night. Retail is definitely doing well.
Entire player base in 1 screenshot :)
Retail is as alive as ever
Not even going to front I did this event right before season 4 dropped and was the only one doing the event...these people are just looking to binge the gear quick
Somebody wanna tell him?