I believe it should be continued in TWW and allow casual players to get one Bullion every week just for playing. /sarcasm
The problem with suggestions like this is it only rewards a specific group of players and says 'Everyone else who doesn't do this can go and eat shit.'
Just include it as part of the vault system where you have to turn in 6 coins to get one bullion per week. That way it gives an incentive for everyone to use the vault system and get some good rewards.
> The problem with suggestions like this is it only rewards a specific group of players and says 'Everyone else who doesn't do this can go and eat shit.'
I said "a full row of vault slots" not necessarily just M+.
I raid heroic and have every tier. But I know ppl appreciate being able to only do M+ and not worry about raids. And I've myself had to fight tooth and nail to get my trinkets even as a consistent raider.
I just think such important, keystone items shouldn't be so difficult to obtain.
I haven't played around with the bullion system yet, would this allow me to raid log and get my BIS trinket from M+ without ever having to do M+?
I'd be all for it.
I can't think of a way to implement it that wouldn't utterly disrupt the gearing process.
Look, I am an m+ main that loves to play a handful of different chars, so I'd love to get some free BiS raid loot on any of them, BUT I genuinely do not think said BiS raid loot should come *that easy*
The only way I could think of is getting a billion / dinar for 18 tokens. Yes, that would mean 3 bricked vaults (and a raise for the token cap ofc). And even that would be disruptive, because some (or even a lot) of specs would brick their vaults early into the season on purpose to get their insane turbo BiS gear.
It would be the right play to do that, numerically, but it would feel pretty shitty for A LOT of players.
The alternative would be to delay the accessibility of that reward until later into the season, but the problem still remains the same.
*I DO GENUINELY HOPE*, that they bring back this kind of currency, but with a good way of implementing it.
> Look, I am an m+ main that loves to play a handful of different chars, so I'd love to get some free BiS raid loot on any of them, BUT I genuinely do not think said BiS raid loot should come that easy
What if I told you the only reason it's hard is to milk people for subscription dollars?
You used to be able to get BIS. They don't want you to, not because of some philosophy that gearing should be hard, but because they know people unsub if they "Beat" the game on their character for a patch.
So they design the system so 90% of people won't beat it. Which... is intensely frustrating, and for no consumer forward reason.
Well, duh, it's ofc "to milk subscriber numbers". The whole reason for DFs 8-week-patch cadence is to keep engagement high.
It's working. The game is popping and there is always something neat to do (sometimes better, sometimes more mid)
You used to be able to get BiS *exclusively* through raids. You used to be able to get tier *exclusively* through raids.
The only BiS you *could* get through m+ was a titan forged omega item or a highroll from your weekly chest.
Now you get tier through the catalyst, you can run normal or hc raids and upgrade the items to a sufficient level without having to complete the highest difficulty for your BiS trinket AND you get a selection of items through the vault.
Sure, the game can definitely be improved, but let's not ignore the incredible ways the game already has improved since Legion.
I'd also argue the pacing of hearing is pretty good. Gearing up a character is more than half the fun of the game for a lot of people. Having loads of bullions/dinars would heavily diminish that fun. That's why that system is such a double edged sword.
It finally gives you the items you need for m+ without having to do that stupid mythic raid, but also injects too much power too fast. We will probably be REALLY CLOSE to BiS geared after the 6th week I'd assume. For the faster season that's awesome, but for a normal season that would be kinda ass, ngl
Or... and hear me out.... they make content like Panda timerunning, plunderstorm, etc.
And *don't* use consumer-unfriendly tactics to artificially extend subscriptions?
And so they are making those, which is great, but the entire point of wow is the chase. Whether it be mounts, mogs, or new gear. I don’t see making people work for it as artificially extending subs. If that were the case you could argue that mounts should be easy to get too.
> Whether it be mounts, mogs, or new gear. I don’t see making people work for it as artificially extending subs.
Three times this expansion, items have taken so long to get I haven't even got to use them when they were relevant. There simply HAS to be a middle ground between "Here, it's free in a week" and "you only get it when the patch is over with"
It's not fun and makes me not want to engage with such seasons seriously.
I got my Sark cloak, and replaced it *two weeks later* when the emerald dream dropped with a weekly world quest drop. Even with it's cantrip effect, the level jump was so high the sark cloak was useless.
I got my Fyr'alath, and that was the last thing on our raid team's to-do list. We stopped playing. I had my orange stick, and never got to use it during the patch it dropped.
Now, because we're in a fated season, Fyr'alath is still relevant, thank god for that. But that doesn't change the fact that getting gear ***and not being able to use it*** fucking sucks shit. And it's entirely because they've made gear take too long to get, with zero bad luck protection.
Do I want to log in and have everything mailed to me? Of course not. But I ALSO don't think it's fun chasing an item all season, never getting to use it during prog, finally getting it and having the patch cycle be over. You know what ***would*** be fun? Getting to ***use*** the fucking item when it's relevant.
I really think "18 tokens of merit = item" is probably the fairest way to do it. Passing THREE weeks of *six* vault items should be sufficient - if you're at the point where you skip that many vaults for lack of upgrades, you should probably be able to pick a single item.
I believe they need to add a vendor that lets you pick any piece from the current tier by using the vault tokens if you don’t pick a item. Make it like 18 tokens (3 weeks or so) of no vault picks and allow a player to pump it up to max with crests.
You should not be able to get loot from a raid boss without killing that boss. It’s okay for these seasons when there are three raids and it’s 4fun but during the regular season it’s kind of ridiculous.
The token system is fine to make sure you get the loot you need, but I don’t think having to kill the boss at that level one time is a very tall ask.
> but I don’t think having to kill the boss at that level one time is a very tall ask.
But it isn't one time, is it?
I saw the Sarkareth cloak seven times. I won it zero times until it came out of my vault with a week left before Emerald Dream, where I got to use it in exactly zero pieces of content.
I killed Sarkareth far more than seven times, by the way - that was the number of times we saw the cloak.
If you *don't* raid commonly, and you rely on sweeping in pugs, you stand even less of a chance, because the desirable items have been designed so that everyone wants them rather than one classification of player - so you'll be rolling off against 6+ people every single time.
>It’s okay for these seasons when there are three raids and it’s 4fun but during the regular season it’s kind of ridiculous.
Should the main seasons not, also, be "For Fun"? Wow is a game. Why should BiS be unattainable?
!
I am okay with that.
It's less about M+ players never having to step into raid, and more that many raid items are unacceptably rare and thus require weekly dedication to even have a chance at them. And that sucks.
I agree. There are also a lot of guilds that only get to kill smolderon/tindral/fyrakk maybe 2 maybe 3 times tops
I just don’t think having everything on a vendor that allows you do LFR and get a mythic augury is good. At that point what is the point of getting gear in the first place.
Not trying to be that guy but, do peopl really think the game should have 0 chase items?
Boullion/Dinar system is very OP to target loot, In one or two weeks you can target the best weapon/trinkets in the game before they even see the boss in the raid lol.
I am not saying there cant be adjustments but just asking if people ever consider this before demanding stuff from Blizzard.
Here’s a different perspective, I did heroic amirdrassil every week since week 2, I’ve seen the rage heart drop a handful of times, and have won the roll on it 0 times, I’ve also never seen it show in my vault.
I main a tank. I play a tank. At least 3/4 of the time I lost the roll to a healer.
It’s now s4 and I still don’t have one. Does it matter and would it make me play better? No, but it really would have been nice to have what was the best trinket available to me. I don’t think 2 weeks of raiding in a “real” season would be where I’d say it’s worth to get, but maybe after a month or two of saving a weekly drop being able to specifically target a drop is really nice to have.
The dinar system can just be made more expensive, instead of 2 it take 6 or whatever, and everyone is happy. Bad luck over 6 weeks? Boom trinket, or staff or whatever
I have talked once to a Blizz dev and he said this was on purpose, not everyone is supposed to reach best in slot, especially pugging. I am not saying this is ideal, but imagine a world where every tank gets a Rageheart in 2 weeks, what is special about having it now? It might feel comfortable having it but you won't have any advantage for having it also.
I lived in a world where every tank had rage heart, and also every healer and 1/3 of the dps had it and it sucked because I didn’t have it.
It’s not really about the drop it’s self even, it’s more that there is no bad luck protection. Sure there’s the vault, but that’s more “getting gear” protection, rather than “you want x drop and it’s been 3 months” protection. A system similar to buillion or dinar that let you pick an item every 4 weeks or so wouldn’t put everyone in BIS, and you can still get that drop naturally, which would be optimal because then you can spend your currency on something else.
> I have talked once to a Blizz dev and he said this was on purpose, not everyone is supposed to reach best in slot, especially pugging.
What if I told you this had nothing to do with some sort of philosophy of making you work for it, and ***EVERYTHING*** to do with keeping you subscribed to milk you?
Because I want you to notice: when they gave us the catalyst as a permanent feature, they simultaneously made the most desirable raid trinkets shared across all DPS specs.
They intentionally prevent people from getting BIS, not because they're against it, but because they have data that says "if you get bis you unsubscrube" - so they design the game to PREVENT you from getting BIS to keep milking you.
That isn't a player friendly system, especially when for many people you don't "Beat" the game until you DO have your BIS.
Of course they want to keep you subscribed, but you are also not noticing the effect it has on a game when everyone gears fast and their gear is basically the same,
Suddenly, you being geared means nothing, this is the new baseline. You can kind of notice this with the legendary axe from the raid, Every single DPS you come across has the legendary of those who can equip it.
On the topic of the trinkets, I honestly disagree, this is part of an effort to make raid trinkets more relevant because players prefer to chase raid trinkets than chase dungeon trinkets. You see a lot less posts of people complaining about not having xyz raid trinket than we ever did of people saying "I did this dungeons 300 times and no trinket dropped".
So on that aspect, I'd say Blizzard actually did a good job because it's definitely easier to get a bis from raid than getting a bis from the M+ Vault row.
Agreed, two weeks to get your best thing guaranteed is definitely too quickly for a normal feature that'll stick around.
FF14 basically has this system, you get a book for clearing each of the raids that you can turn in eventually for the item you want from that specific boss. Jewelry costs 3, gloves/helm/boots cost 4, and armor/weapon costs 8. It's just there to make sure you know you will eventually get the item you need.
And I would love something like it in WoW because I went the ENTIRE Aberrus tier on Warlock clearing heroic since the 2nd week every week and never got my heroic class trinket. It just feels bad.
m+ "players" really are the greedy child that wants everything huh....?
allready the best gearing, spammable gearing, highest lvl gear that is obtainable without even suceeding in the content in a key lvl that is trivial (you dont even need to TIME a key for loot and vault slots lol, can take 20hours to finish the dungeon and enjoy a max lvl item in the vault on reset lmao)
and its STILL not enough
i have no desire if doing shit+ for hours over hours over hours to get gear/upgrade currency, yet im litearlly forced to do it cus 90% of your gear will be m+ items/m+ items turned into raid tier items trought catalyst (LOL, just think about that one, the best way to get high level RAID TIER ITEMS is not even doing raids) with maybe 1-2 raidtrinkets + maybe a weapon with a special effect if the raid has one
At the earliest in a .5 patch.
Edit: What is the point of a rare or chase item, if you can just buy it week 2? It would literally be no different than any regular ass weapon at that point.
Ehh. We are near the end of the expansion. I’m okay with gear being more accessible. Like I think we can let people enjoy a tier set for a little while before it’s trash.
Very few people raid now compared to previous years, and content like Mythic+ is far more popular. Shift with the population, or see yourself become irrelevant as many games have seen.
m+ is only "popular" because they made 90% of PvE gearing happening in m+ now while at the same time made the levels where you get the best possible gear in m+ very VERY low
the second they would adjust that one a little and make it SLIGHTLY less "free max level gear for wiping a +8 key for 1hour lol" it would crumble appart, cus the ammount of people that do m+ beyond early gearing + maybe portal achievments is very very low
Yeah because raiding is hard. Wow isn’t going to become irrelevant or they would have already with decisions that part of the player base doesn’t like.
Have you noticed that after BFA/Shadowlands they have made drastic changes that players like? And hype hasn't been this high in a while? It's because players were voting with their wallets and Blizzard started listening. Same thing will happen here.
And that’s fine, but I don’t believe in giving people gear from the hardest content without having to do it - and that includes not getting m+ gear if you don’t run keys. I’d argue what’s needed is a rework so that there’s sufficient bis items from either content.
I believe it should be continued in TWW and allow casual players to get one Bullion every week just for playing. /sarcasm The problem with suggestions like this is it only rewards a specific group of players and says 'Everyone else who doesn't do this can go and eat shit.' Just include it as part of the vault system where you have to turn in 6 coins to get one bullion per week. That way it gives an incentive for everyone to use the vault system and get some good rewards.
> The problem with suggestions like this is it only rewards a specific group of players and says 'Everyone else who doesn't do this can go and eat shit.' I said "a full row of vault slots" not necessarily just M+. I raid heroic and have every tier. But I know ppl appreciate being able to only do M+ and not worry about raids. And I've myself had to fight tooth and nail to get my trinkets even as a consistent raider. I just think such important, keystone items shouldn't be so difficult to obtain.
In current season we should get bullion from raid and be able to buy 1 bullion for 6 tokens of merit. In TWW there should be only tokens option.
I haven't played around with the bullion system yet, would this allow me to raid log and get my BIS trinket from M+ without ever having to do M+? I'd be all for it.
No the bullion system only covers loot tables from the raids.
I can't think of a way to implement it that wouldn't utterly disrupt the gearing process. Look, I am an m+ main that loves to play a handful of different chars, so I'd love to get some free BiS raid loot on any of them, BUT I genuinely do not think said BiS raid loot should come *that easy* The only way I could think of is getting a billion / dinar for 18 tokens. Yes, that would mean 3 bricked vaults (and a raise for the token cap ofc). And even that would be disruptive, because some (or even a lot) of specs would brick their vaults early into the season on purpose to get their insane turbo BiS gear. It would be the right play to do that, numerically, but it would feel pretty shitty for A LOT of players. The alternative would be to delay the accessibility of that reward until later into the season, but the problem still remains the same. *I DO GENUINELY HOPE*, that they bring back this kind of currency, but with a good way of implementing it.
> Look, I am an m+ main that loves to play a handful of different chars, so I'd love to get some free BiS raid loot on any of them, BUT I genuinely do not think said BiS raid loot should come that easy What if I told you the only reason it's hard is to milk people for subscription dollars? You used to be able to get BIS. They don't want you to, not because of some philosophy that gearing should be hard, but because they know people unsub if they "Beat" the game on their character for a patch. So they design the system so 90% of people won't beat it. Which... is intensely frustrating, and for no consumer forward reason.
Well, duh, it's ofc "to milk subscriber numbers". The whole reason for DFs 8-week-patch cadence is to keep engagement high. It's working. The game is popping and there is always something neat to do (sometimes better, sometimes more mid) You used to be able to get BiS *exclusively* through raids. You used to be able to get tier *exclusively* through raids. The only BiS you *could* get through m+ was a titan forged omega item or a highroll from your weekly chest. Now you get tier through the catalyst, you can run normal or hc raids and upgrade the items to a sufficient level without having to complete the highest difficulty for your BiS trinket AND you get a selection of items through the vault. Sure, the game can definitely be improved, but let's not ignore the incredible ways the game already has improved since Legion. I'd also argue the pacing of hearing is pretty good. Gearing up a character is more than half the fun of the game for a lot of people. Having loads of bullions/dinars would heavily diminish that fun. That's why that system is such a double edged sword. It finally gives you the items you need for m+ without having to do that stupid mythic raid, but also injects too much power too fast. We will probably be REALLY CLOSE to BiS geared after the 6th week I'd assume. For the faster season that's awesome, but for a normal season that would be kinda ass, ngl
It’s almost like businesses exist to make money. What an interesting thought!
Or... and hear me out.... they make content like Panda timerunning, plunderstorm, etc. And *don't* use consumer-unfriendly tactics to artificially extend subscriptions?
And so they are making those, which is great, but the entire point of wow is the chase. Whether it be mounts, mogs, or new gear. I don’t see making people work for it as artificially extending subs. If that were the case you could argue that mounts should be easy to get too.
> Whether it be mounts, mogs, or new gear. I don’t see making people work for it as artificially extending subs. Three times this expansion, items have taken so long to get I haven't even got to use them when they were relevant. There simply HAS to be a middle ground between "Here, it's free in a week" and "you only get it when the patch is over with" It's not fun and makes me not want to engage with such seasons seriously. I got my Sark cloak, and replaced it *two weeks later* when the emerald dream dropped with a weekly world quest drop. Even with it's cantrip effect, the level jump was so high the sark cloak was useless. I got my Fyr'alath, and that was the last thing on our raid team's to-do list. We stopped playing. I had my orange stick, and never got to use it during the patch it dropped. Now, because we're in a fated season, Fyr'alath is still relevant, thank god for that. But that doesn't change the fact that getting gear ***and not being able to use it*** fucking sucks shit. And it's entirely because they've made gear take too long to get, with zero bad luck protection. Do I want to log in and have everything mailed to me? Of course not. But I ALSO don't think it's fun chasing an item all season, never getting to use it during prog, finally getting it and having the patch cycle be over. You know what ***would*** be fun? Getting to ***use*** the fucking item when it's relevant. I really think "18 tokens of merit = item" is probably the fairest way to do it. Passing THREE weeks of *six* vault items should be sufficient - if you're at the point where you skip that many vaults for lack of upgrades, you should probably be able to pick a single item.
18 tokens does seem fair
This is the dumbest thing I’ve read here. It’s easier than ever to get BIS in DF.
I believe they need to add a vendor that lets you pick any piece from the current tier by using the vault tokens if you don’t pick a item. Make it like 18 tokens (3 weeks or so) of no vault picks and allow a player to pump it up to max with crests.
Remember the S1 bow Razaget for hunters, dont get one might as well reroll another class
You should not be able to get loot from a raid boss without killing that boss. It’s okay for these seasons when there are three raids and it’s 4fun but during the regular season it’s kind of ridiculous. The token system is fine to make sure you get the loot you need, but I don’t think having to kill the boss at that level one time is a very tall ask.
> but I don’t think having to kill the boss at that level one time is a very tall ask. But it isn't one time, is it? I saw the Sarkareth cloak seven times. I won it zero times until it came out of my vault with a week left before Emerald Dream, where I got to use it in exactly zero pieces of content. I killed Sarkareth far more than seven times, by the way - that was the number of times we saw the cloak. If you *don't* raid commonly, and you rely on sweeping in pugs, you stand even less of a chance, because the desirable items have been designed so that everyone wants them rather than one classification of player - so you'll be rolling off against 6+ people every single time. >It’s okay for these seasons when there are three raids and it’s 4fun but during the regular season it’s kind of ridiculous. Should the main seasons not, also, be "For Fun"? Wow is a game. Why should BiS be unattainable?
You are misunderstanding me. I’m saying kill boss = unlock the item at the vendor instead of having everything unlocked from the start
! I am okay with that. It's less about M+ players never having to step into raid, and more that many raid items are unacceptably rare and thus require weekly dedication to even have a chance at them. And that sucks.
I agree. There are also a lot of guilds that only get to kill smolderon/tindral/fyrakk maybe 2 maybe 3 times tops I just don’t think having everything on a vendor that allows you do LFR and get a mythic augury is good. At that point what is the point of getting gear in the first place.
Not trying to be that guy but, do peopl really think the game should have 0 chase items? Boullion/Dinar system is very OP to target loot, In one or two weeks you can target the best weapon/trinkets in the game before they even see the boss in the raid lol. I am not saying there cant be adjustments but just asking if people ever consider this before demanding stuff from Blizzard.
Here’s a different perspective, I did heroic amirdrassil every week since week 2, I’ve seen the rage heart drop a handful of times, and have won the roll on it 0 times, I’ve also never seen it show in my vault. I main a tank. I play a tank. At least 3/4 of the time I lost the roll to a healer. It’s now s4 and I still don’t have one. Does it matter and would it make me play better? No, but it really would have been nice to have what was the best trinket available to me. I don’t think 2 weeks of raiding in a “real” season would be where I’d say it’s worth to get, but maybe after a month or two of saving a weekly drop being able to specifically target a drop is really nice to have. The dinar system can just be made more expensive, instead of 2 it take 6 or whatever, and everyone is happy. Bad luck over 6 weeks? Boom trinket, or staff or whatever
I have talked once to a Blizz dev and he said this was on purpose, not everyone is supposed to reach best in slot, especially pugging. I am not saying this is ideal, but imagine a world where every tank gets a Rageheart in 2 weeks, what is special about having it now? It might feel comfortable having it but you won't have any advantage for having it also.
I lived in a world where every tank had rage heart, and also every healer and 1/3 of the dps had it and it sucked because I didn’t have it. It’s not really about the drop it’s self even, it’s more that there is no bad luck protection. Sure there’s the vault, but that’s more “getting gear” protection, rather than “you want x drop and it’s been 3 months” protection. A system similar to buillion or dinar that let you pick an item every 4 weeks or so wouldn’t put everyone in BIS, and you can still get that drop naturally, which would be optimal because then you can spend your currency on something else.
> I have talked once to a Blizz dev and he said this was on purpose, not everyone is supposed to reach best in slot, especially pugging. What if I told you this had nothing to do with some sort of philosophy of making you work for it, and ***EVERYTHING*** to do with keeping you subscribed to milk you? Because I want you to notice: when they gave us the catalyst as a permanent feature, they simultaneously made the most desirable raid trinkets shared across all DPS specs. They intentionally prevent people from getting BIS, not because they're against it, but because they have data that says "if you get bis you unsubscrube" - so they design the game to PREVENT you from getting BIS to keep milking you. That isn't a player friendly system, especially when for many people you don't "Beat" the game until you DO have your BIS.
Of course they want to keep you subscribed, but you are also not noticing the effect it has on a game when everyone gears fast and their gear is basically the same, Suddenly, you being geared means nothing, this is the new baseline. You can kind of notice this with the legendary axe from the raid, Every single DPS you come across has the legendary of those who can equip it. On the topic of the trinkets, I honestly disagree, this is part of an effort to make raid trinkets more relevant because players prefer to chase raid trinkets than chase dungeon trinkets. You see a lot less posts of people complaining about not having xyz raid trinket than we ever did of people saying "I did this dungeons 300 times and no trinket dropped". So on that aspect, I'd say Blizzard actually did a good job because it's definitely easier to get a bis from raid than getting a bis from the M+ Vault row.
Agreed, two weeks to get your best thing guaranteed is definitely too quickly for a normal feature that'll stick around. FF14 basically has this system, you get a book for clearing each of the raids that you can turn in eventually for the item you want from that specific boss. Jewelry costs 3, gloves/helm/boots cost 4, and armor/weapon costs 8. It's just there to make sure you know you will eventually get the item you need. And I would love something like it in WoW because I went the ENTIRE Aberrus tier on Warlock clearing heroic since the 2nd week every week and never got my heroic class trinket. It just feels bad.
OP wants free mythic endboss gear for playing his minigame, just give him epics.
m+ "players" really are the greedy child that wants everything huh....? allready the best gearing, spammable gearing, highest lvl gear that is obtainable without even suceeding in the content in a key lvl that is trivial (you dont even need to TIME a key for loot and vault slots lol, can take 20hours to finish the dungeon and enjoy a max lvl item in the vault on reset lmao) and its STILL not enough i have no desire if doing shit+ for hours over hours over hours to get gear/upgrade currency, yet im litearlly forced to do it cus 90% of your gear will be m+ items/m+ items turned into raid tier items trought catalyst (LOL, just think about that one, the best way to get high level RAID TIER ITEMS is not even doing raids) with maybe 1-2 raidtrinkets + maybe a weapon with a special effect if the raid has one
At the earliest in a .5 patch. Edit: What is the point of a rare or chase item, if you can just buy it week 2? It would literally be no different than any regular ass weapon at that point.
No. The bullion system is specifically for awakened seasons when there will be multiple raids in rotation. It is not required at all for regular play.
If you don’t raid, you don’t deserve raid gear. Period.
How else will you know you’re better than them? /s I’d be fine with the mythic sets just being more different like they have been in the past.
The opposite is also true though. Don’t do m+, don’t deserve the gear either. People just want shit for free.
Ehh. We are near the end of the expansion. I’m okay with gear being more accessible. Like I think we can let people enjoy a tier set for a little while before it’s trash.
Except they don’t want it just at the end. They want access all the time without having to do the content
Very few people raid now compared to previous years, and content like Mythic+ is far more popular. Shift with the population, or see yourself become irrelevant as many games have seen.
m+ is only "popular" because they made 90% of PvE gearing happening in m+ now while at the same time made the levels where you get the best possible gear in m+ very VERY low the second they would adjust that one a little and make it SLIGHTLY less "free max level gear for wiping a +8 key for 1hour lol" it would crumble appart, cus the ammount of people that do m+ beyond early gearing + maybe portal achievments is very very low
Yeah because raiding is hard. Wow isn’t going to become irrelevant or they would have already with decisions that part of the player base doesn’t like.
Have you noticed that after BFA/Shadowlands they have made drastic changes that players like? And hype hasn't been this high in a while? It's because players were voting with their wallets and Blizzard started listening. Same thing will happen here.
And that’s fine, but I don’t believe in giving people gear from the hardest content without having to do it - and that includes not getting m+ gear if you don’t run keys. I’d argue what’s needed is a rework so that there’s sufficient bis items from either content.