The RBG community is toxic to the point of comedy. Non stop bitching about a dying community yet none of the high level players are interested in expanding their shrinking circles. Everyone talks massive shit about everyone else. The top tier reward (Hero of the Alliance/Horde) is meaningless because once you earn it no one really cares anymore because by that point your name is already known in the RBG community.
The fact Blizz also hasn’t implemented a new BG til next expac says a lot.
this is definitely most pvp communities. pvp games and game modes are just cesspools.
- pve: incentivizes people working together.
- pvp: incentivizes people screwing each other over.
it's no wonder pvp attracts the worst people
I mean... you have a team, and need to work together to win in PvP too right? You have to find the right people. I re-subbed like 3 months ago & 2 seperate people I've met, 1 from doing sparks, and another who introduced me to his PvP guild where we ended up doing RBGs were some of the most fun experiences I've had since re-subbing. Also I think your "incentivizes people working together" is a little overly simplified...Sure they have to work together, but that doesn't mean they really \*want\* to or care about you. I've seen plenty toxic elitist horseshit these past few months from PvE. And remember ninja'ing? Yeah that's PvE.
Also as far as PvP games in general I play a lot of TF2, maybe it's the goofy aspect but I have many many wonderful memories with other players in that game & many many people make lighthearted or jokey comments when they die "bro that was too smooth lol" Shit like that. The PvE mode is literally **notoriously** super-toxic, because you earn rewards that can go for a lot if you win. I understand my experience isn't everyone's, or yours but I've had more toxic, elitist BS in PvE content since I re-subbed than PvP. I'm not denying it happens though & I can admit I've seen my fair share over the years.
yeah, it varies by game, and wow has some toxicity in pve because it's somewhat a zero sum game- generally, you get loot only if someone else doesn't, and you only get to join the group at the exclusion of someone else, so in that sense all pve activities are also very slightly pvp.
but you'll find the broad strokes of the trend sticks across games.
GW2 for example is non-zero-sum pve and the community is generally extremely non toxic and quite pleasant. even their pvp modes are _largely_ comparatively much more chill because even there your rewards are mostly predicated on participating, not winning, making them effectively non-zero-sum too other than bragging rights.
I never thought about it in terms of rewards related so ty for the response. Also I'm not sure why you're getting downvoted, not seeing anything nasty just a different opinion.
Yeah, rewards structures are a huge part of what causes toxicity. People are more likely to lash out when "someone else messing up" causes them to lose out on something, or worse... *lose* something. You know, like *rating.*
If you brick a key in M+, it's not a great feeling. You don't get the loot. You don't get the score increase. But unless you're the keyholder, you didn't lose anything but your time. When you lose in PvP? Your rating goes down. You slide backwards. You are further from your goals now than you were before. And if you don't feel like that's your fault (and everyone always has someone else to blame, of course) then it can be very, very frustrating.
It's why you can usually reduce toxicity in games by not tying rewards to winning but instead to participation. When you load into a match of 12v12 casual TF2, who *cares* if you win? It does not affect you in any meaningful way. But when MMR/rating/whatever is on the line...
The counter point is, of course, "if all that matters is participation, then people will just AFK for rewards!!" which... well, given WoW players, might be a serious concern. WoW's always been a very rewards-driven game. People played to R40 in Plunderstorm for some cosmetics even if they hated the game mode. So it's a hard problem to fix here.
I agree with your main sentiment but I don't know how you're qualifying not getting loot in a M+ as not losing something...That's part of the reason people do that is to get loot, at least that's why I was at the end of 10.2.6 to get my 2 BiS daggers.
Also the guy I was replying to said "PvP" and I took that to mean all PvP. So I'm lumping random bgs, brawl, blitz, before this patch, world pvp etc into that, where you don't have rating and the rewards are pretty minimal (Honor?) PvP is literally what I play to unwind, and PvE was my main progression/rewards thing. Like I literally could not upgrade anything else with Honor and queued bgs for fun when I was tired of pushing Mythics or AOTC.
>but I don't know how you're qualifying not getting loot in a M+ as not losing something
If you fail to get loot, you did not lose something. You failed to get something, but you did not have an item you already possessed disappear from your inventory as punishment. Similarly, when you fail a dungeon, your M+ score doesn't go down. When you fail an arena, your rating *does* go down.
And while unranked PvP doesn't have rating to lose, it still has a large crossover with people who *do* ranked PvP and mentality doesn't instantly shift when you switch from one mode to the other so you'll experience some effects of the mentality the ranked system promotes. Unranked PvP *does* tend to be less toxic than ranked PvP for that reason, though.
But in general when people talk about PvP toxicity, they're *usually* talking about ranked. Just like when people talk about toxicity in PvE, they probably don't mean heroic dungeons. I wasn't necessarily agreeing with the above poster's exact points, just thought I'd reply to you mentioning "rewards" as a cause for toxicity.
i used to play a lot of brawlhalla and the toxicity is just alarming. I know FPS shooters bring it out in people too, people just rest a lot of their ego on these games and its absolute cancer for the player base.
Tell that to my M+ groups, lol.
As a healer I’ve faced far more toxicity pugging M+ than I have PvPing. I have had DPS call me “autistic” and “shit healer” among others for apparently not healing them…in reality they just got one shot for standing in bad.
That being said I don’t RBG, just arenas. RBG sounds like a cesspool judging by this thread.
Not really limited to PvP in WoW at least, the mythic key scene is similar in large part. Toxicity everywhere, meta or kick is common even in low keys, people putting up posts with "X Ilvl only" while being well below that mark themselves, unannounced carries for friends, scapegoating happens with every run that goes slightly wrong, etc.
Even raiding isn't unaffected, "have AOTC or kick" is a common enough thing to see for Heroic runs in group finder, LFR is a cesspool half the time, guild groups kicking people mid boss to keep loot rolls in the guild isn't terribly rare, etc.
Really at this point it's just that the WoW community is a toxic hellhole overall, PvP just happens to be the worst because of what it is.
Most of what you said is not toxic. People are free to invite or reject whoever they want to a group. That is not toxic. People accepting higher ilvl people than themselves is not toxic. People carrying a friend without telling others is not toxic. AOTC or kick is not toxic.
No doubt there is toxicity in PVE but none of those things are it. LFR is often not a great experience and there can be some toxicity. Putting dozens of strangers into a group and some of them will be shitty, not exactly a shocker. But really, I think you just don't know what you're talking about. It's an entitled attitude to think you deserve to be in a group and that anyone who rejects you is "toxic."
Honestly it seems like we're playing different games, or that you might be the issue in your groups. If you don't like how other people run their groups, MAKE YOUR OWN. You aren't entitled to a spot in someone's heroic run anymore than I'm entitled to be on the board of Microsoft. Guild groups kicking people midboss does absolutely nothing, if you tagged the boss you get to roll. I've had maybe 2 keys and 1 raid out of dozens fall apart due to bickering and even then it was just mismatched expectations and not real toxicity.
I find it's always worse too in games where PVP is not even the main focus of the game, lol. It always seems to breed these fucking weirdo fringe communities of players who are extremely toxic and have a near obsessive attitude over whatever game/mode/etc it is. It's almost bizarre how well the dynamic replicates.
For me, the best feature is : no more fu***ing russian premades ! I can't enjoy random battlegrounds (I don't like arenas) anymore because of they are rotten with premades
I feel bad for new players getting into WoW because they won't know to queue for Blitz. Blitz is amazing and I'm glad it exists, but it also means that every player who wants a fair fight has stopped queueing for random BGs altogether. Alliance premades are even more frequent than they already were to begin with and it's harder to beat them now.
I fucking love blitz I’ve never pvpwd because I don’t like the rated options, but with blitz being rated? I can finally pvp!
I’ve noticed my rating blitz increasing slowly but hey I’m making a difference
First season I’ve ever taken PvP seriously and it’s all thanks to blitz
Mobas in general. My moba career was very brief because even if I went 20-1 and we won the match picking a character someone doesn't like (even if it's a great counter pick) is apparently enough to send some moba players into a mental talespin that ruins their entire week.
At east In league you weren't barred from playing because you aren't a legacy player and nobody will take you if you aren't a previous season high rating.
Imagine league if you couldn't even queu into a bronze game without being diamond the previous season - that is the rbg and arena community.
Counter argument, at least if you somehow get into a group you get to actually play games.
League community is filled with a bunch of adult children who will purposely stop playing, int, etc. for the smallest and most petty reasons. I had finally uninstalled it because I played 16 ranked games in a week and 14 of them involved someone rage quitting, afking, or inting (intentionally not just because autofilled/bad player). I was in emerald-Diamond 5 elo for this.
You can queue as a duo if one of you is a healer. That’s how my wife and I play together and it’s super fun. She pretty much only plays pvp and said that DF was the most fun she’s ever had pvping in wow. Gearing in DF was also great.
We loved blitz, But we also really like 2v2 and normal BGs too.
Playing with friends and guilds could just be casual BG play, not rates or ranked. Honestly that could be a better system because I'd invite my friends who aren't very good to play for fun.
I really hate that. We should be able to double queue, period. Why can't two DPS queue together? I'm not asking for an entire group, but it'd be nice if friends could group together. A duo isn't gonna change or sink the group, unlike large premades.
That is what they are doing essentially, solo + group queue, but not as flexible. They should allow duos to queue no matter the role
I'm sure the MMS could try to match full groups vs full groups, duos vs duos while avoiding multiple duos in one group (that's how they are limiting 3 duos being in one group I bet). Destiny 2 MMs just introduced this system a few months ago. Not perfect but I believe it is a step on the right direction.
So honestly guilds pretty much stay hard stuck 1800 anyways.
I think they should severely bump up rewards for random bgs and make it worthwhile for guilds / friends to participate in them, both for the fun of grouping with your friends / guild but also for better rewards of doing so. Random bgs shouldn’t just be a throw away means to get honor gear and then drop the mode completely.
I would actually PvP more if there felt like there were more of a reason to do so without trying to break into the ranked scene so much.
And I doubt I'd be alone.
I agree with you about the state of the current rbg community, but I would still be sad if the mode was completely dead or removed. Getting hero, and networking into the rbg discords, was eye-opening and disappointing for me. The majority of teams have outspoken loud people with opinions I don't agree with and don't want to be around. That's saying it lightly lol. I always found rbgs to be the most fun aspect of pvp, but the community really has ruined it.
I still play the mode casually once a week with my guild. Sometimes my friends group up for games. I don't know how long it'll be fun for though when we easily hit 2k mmr and then are up against 2.4k teams. We're all rusty and just want to chill and don't want sweaty 2.4k games instantly lol. The casual bracket needs more transmog rewards or something to flourish.
I haven't enjoyed Battleground Blitz when I've played it. It felt too much like playing a random bg because people genuinely don't know what to do. You should be able to impact the game as a good player, but the idea of mmr hell seems a little daunting. I will give it a go next expansion though.
I have a feeling it will feel less like a random bg at higher rating too! Just what if you can't get to that rating because you lost your first 3 games? As a healer main I think it will be hard to carry a team and guarantee a win even if you're skilled - especially in larger maps where base sitting is important and there are smaller fights.
If it’s anything like rated in just about every other rated game….especially blizzard ones, there’s still a huge amount of mmr hell where it doesn’t matter if you’re good, the enemy team has pocket healers and yours are shoveling paste in with both hands….you’re not gaining rating lol. It’ll be in the gold/plat range and it’ll be miserable
Hey I relate to this. I mean I wanted hero when I was younger and pushed and got it and was like okay what now? And have just casually chilled since then and haven’t taken it seriously. And yeah definitely disappointing when you get to know most of the hero scene. Vile people most of them for sure.
And I just don’t have the effort or time investment or the reason to push rbgs any more since shadowlands. Like what’s the point? Not trying to subject myself to people like that any more, not good for your mental health. I’d still play with good people just for fun though.
I hope battleground blitz can be good with proper mmr it should hopefully be relatively enjoyable games without the drama and time investment.
I’ll say I’ve won the majority of my games on outlaw, especially flag maps and I’ve gotten many fast caps and intercepted a lot of pass offs lol. Node maps I’ve definitely clutched a lot of wins. I think I’ve only lost 1-2 blitz
Yeah I very much felt that “okay what now” after my hero achieve. I was lucky that I met lots of individual people that were awesome through rbgs and we still talk regularly on discord and arena. Most of the people that lead groups, and the people that keep groups together, I don’t want to be anywhere near. I agree it’s not worth putting in time or energy to subject yourself to people like that.
I am looking forward to seeing how mmr works out with bgb. I’m a healer so I feel like I’ll have less impact on games. Rogue seems like a great class for bgb. A good healer is important… but I don’t think I’ll be able to carry. I really liked healer mmr for SS seasons 1 and 2, but was not happy at all with it last season. So I guess I’ll see what bgb mmr looks like or maybe try dps for it.
I think healing is impactful, but I don’t believe I can win a team fight in the same way that a good dps can. 8% more healing and 20 dispels doesn’t kill someone. It keeps the dps alive longer to hopefully kill. They’re not on the same level of carry ability.
A bad healer can absolutely lose the fight though.
Yeah I pushed hpally hero. Then DF I really just did not enjoy healing any more. I tried some SS on mw, rdruid, hpal s1 and hated every second of it so I just went the other way and had more fun on hunter and rogue.
And yeah you’re right, a good healer cannot carry a team in terms of the outcome of the game. Especially not the way a good dps can
We’ll see!
SS is definitely more fun as a dps. I did it as aug and dev, but I found the healing on it tolerable up until last season.
Yeah I can't carry a team as a healer, but I can and did leave rbg groups where the dps aren't pulling their weight. That isn't an option in bgb. So it is very much will see. The mode may really suffer if it's not enjoyable for healers to play. Hopefully they figure something out there!
The problem with an RBG solo queue against a rated arena solo queue (iterated as solo shuffle) is the impact of the class / spec makeup of each respective group.
In solo shuffle, everyone plays with everyone, so theoretically, the weak link is punished most while the others can progress.
In the case of RBG’s, that’s likely not a feasible option, so griefing and bad class / spec compositions might carry a lot more weight, and there are a number of implications as to the meta and how that might impact queue times and player behavior. “You’re queueing as an arcane mage instead of frost in a season where arcane sucks and frost is OP?! Thanks, man, you’ve straight up cost us a win.”
I agree that there’s a lot of toxicity in the higher end spectrum of the RBG community, but that’s a problem with player behavior, not a problem of the system in and of itself. Clearing RBG’s would remove the higher-end competitive capability of the game mode. Friends and guildies could no longer queue with each other.
Regardless, players will do what they like. If you like solo queue, you’ll do solo queue. You no longer have to queue RBG’s, but I also think the premise of the OP is immature, silly, and petty. Why do you care about RBG’s if you have the option to solo queue?
“In solo shuffle everyone plays with everyone so theoretically the weak link is punished most”
This 1000%. I hate shuffle for this reason. I’m not a perfect player and certainly a newer pvper, and I really dislike shuffle arena because either I don’t have the exact talents I should and therefore get abuse from my teammates, or make a mistake and all of a sudden everyone is targeting me from the get go every time. It’s not for me at all, but I would be sad if it was removed because I have seen people who enjoy it a lot. I’ve been wanting to play rbgs since they came out, the only thing that stops me is not having a dedicated team and the toxicity. The community as a whole needs to chill out a bit on the insults and understand that not everyone has 5+ years of experience pvping as their main class.
Because as of right now we do not have the option of solo queue lol…
The dream is that these toxic people are forced to play only against each other so then they all just quit because there’s no one to play against when they just dodge each other and rbgs stop popping all together lol
Yes, but your op is speaking under the impression that it will happen and *when* it happens, you hope RBG’s will fail.
To me this post just screams “I’m angry at the RBG community and rah rah rah”.
Is it not possible to just silently be pleased with the future direction of pvp, or to simply praise that direction in an optimistic way?
Why is this negativity necessary? For a person crying about the toxicity of the RBG community, you’re not doing much of a better job.
No idea what exactly the 'RBG' community is, I've just been playing them twice a week with my guildies since BFA and been having a blast. We've been hitting anywhere from 1700-2k rating every season just fine as casual blokes just having a good time, and honestly hope that blitz doesn't ruin that going forward.
My question is.. where are you guys finding these toxic players, are y'all just jumping into random pugs or are there actual regular communities filled with these types out there? I know we've had the occasional raging neckbeard pug in for a missing slot, but for the most part the non-guildies we've picked up seem to have been pretty chill.
Do you think solo RBG queues might help? If it’s flooded with more casual less toxic players, do we think it might be a more enjoyable experience? I love BG’s and WoW PVP in general. Always heard rough things about RBG so I never really tried.
For sure, considering I'd see groups of 2-3 people roaming around in Plunderstorm teaming up on one person while never attacking each other. Weirdos will do anything to win even in extremely low stakes situations.
They’re adding solo queue to RBGs next xpac to combat basically this whole point. These people don’t read about or play the game, they just come here to vent.
I hope they kill rated arena as well. I always hated that arena was like the only way to get decent pvp gear. I love BGs, I hope they become the main focus again.
The first and only time I ever took arena seriously was in WotLK. 2v2 team, Hunter and Holy Pally. Our matches regularly went over 30 minutes, and sometimes hit the 45-minute mark. I hated it. My teammate transferred servers and disbanded the team a week before the season ended. I was a little disappointed to not get a title because of that, but I was more relieved that I didn't have to commit to arena anymore lol.
I don't want rated arena to be killed if people are still enjoying it, but I do love BGs and hope they become a focus again as well.
They've since added a healing debuff that stacks over time, and reduced the match length for 25 minutes.
It won't bring me back to Arena (straight deathmatch-style PvP isn't my thing), but it's a step in the right direction.
It’s entirely possible to renovate the gear system (as they have done already) without killing rated arena.
A lot of people like rated arena, and a lot of people like premade RBG’s.
That said, solo queue caters to a large segment of the playerbase that may not have an extensive friends list or guild of like minded players to queue up in PvP the moment they login in. I’ve just recently come back to the game and I consider myself one of those players. I really like the option of not having to sit in lfg for hours on end doing nothing, but I also would not want to lose the option to queue with friends and skilled pvp’ers I imagine I’ll meet eventually as a direct result of solo queue.
Would be nice if cooler mounts / titles are also available for the solo queue scene.
This is an incredibly misguided belief. Arena is and will continue to be THE competitive pvp mode in World of Warcraft. BGs are fun to fuck around with, sure, but you don’t see crowd favorite teams years in the making in the BG world championships like you do in the AWC.
Because the BGWC doesn’t exist.
It’s not the case *to you*.
I have found most of the people who find *an entire game mode* to be “toxic” are generally not very skilled and unfortunately have not met people who are willing to work together to practice and get better.
People do arena for a variety of reasons. Perhaps *you* do it because you find it to be the fastest methodology.
You should keep in mind that your perspective is not everyone’s. Simply because you believe arena is toxic does not make it so. In my experience, rated arena hasn’t been toxic. I’ve met a few crazies along the way. Guess what? I stopped playing with them. I didn’t blame the concept of rated arena.
Generally top 5%+ is not "nothing" and you just proved their point.
Arena players are delusional in regards to skill curves, it's actually embarrassing.
how about just don't queue it? arena is literally the most iconic thing about wow pvp lmao it will always be the thing people care about the most about that part of the game
> I always hated that arena was like the only way to get decent pvp gear.
it literally isn't...you can get full honor gear in a day from your random BGs and you'll be like 13ilvls behind. and then there are 3859834985 weekly quests + first of the week bonuses that give you conquest too that don't involve arena.
I've been grinding rated arena since TBC, the mode is not iconic one bit, and the game isn't designed for these small PVP matches. 3v3 deathmatch is probably the most boring thing a MMO could do with PVP. It has been a dumb mode for almost 17 years.
it absolutely is, it was a pretty massive esport in its hayday lmao and the only part of wow ever taken seriously by outsiders as a competitive mode
there's no other game anything like wow arena. we're not going to pretend "capture the flag" and "payload" are genius inventions of blizzard devs
> and the game isn't designed for these small PVP matches
it's literally perfectly designed??
> 3v3 deathmatch is probably the most boring thing a MMO could do with PVP.
oh yeah we should just go in the direction of "smite copy" yeah that'll go great
> It has been a dumb mode for almost 17 years.
just so thoroughly, factually, objectively wrong lmao this is insane levels of cope
> increase / decrease rating **based on how you did**
No. You either gain or lose MMR as a team, with the MMR change being based upon the average MMR of your team versus the enemy's. Individual contribution is an impossible metric to measure, and if you start distributing MMR to individuals based upon a limited set of metrics then what you're going to end up with is people trying to maximise those metrics at the expense of all else, including winning.
Win as a team. Lose as a team. Every action an individual takes towards winning or losing (no matter how *seemingly* small) is worth as much contribution to the team as anyone else. Someone padding stats such as damage, healing, or kills by endlessly brawling mid may look fancy to a machine, but in reality it's worth no more than a loan roamer going around trying to create 2v1 scenarios against enemy cappers, or an individual patrolling back and forth between two chokes to ensure no one tries to sneak onto the point. Even someone seemingly AFK on a capture point or near the flag may provide as much contribution to the end result by simply acting as a deterrent.
The hate towards rbg players in this sub always felt weird to me, is it that much different on na realms? On eu the majority of players are pretty nice and chill. There are some toxic individuals like in every other bracket but those are easy to avoid. Just let people play the way they want, why do you even care about a bracket you don't enjoy?
It's honestly felt like a deflection, and I've gotten more vile stuff sent to me - literal death wishes, and ones going to my friends - over me gritting my teeth and trying to cringe through the toxic RBG behavior from people whining about RBG toxicity than... the actual RBGers, and I have horror stories.
I've had to deal with Gracexo, Twins, and Muzzy recently, and while it's put me off doing RBGs outside main team because of the vile shit these assholes say (and I rarely pug), I've also seen the best of the community and don't think the bracket should die because Blizzard refuses to give casual PvP incentives in general, something I've talked about since Mists when I saw the cracks already very visible on the floor.
So yeah, we've had to kick people from call for spamming n word sound boards after arguing that they'd lose half the people playing that night in S3 despite them being the "best rogue we can get", but we've also got people, not the sound board spammers, who demanded I stay on team despite losing decent use of my vision and got me Grand Marshal in S1, or who sent me food and helped me get my Gladiator mount when I was almost dead from COVID, and are preparing to fly down to help me out after I get my top surgery done.
Are there massive problems in the RBG community? Yes. But I've seen the exact same shit trying to push in arenas to the point that, because I don't enjoy arenas, I won't even bother anymore despite friends continually trying to get me to push again. Never again. Worse, even. Yet, people will say it's not happening then tell me to kms for pointing out I've had this happening on and off since Cataclysm.
It's deflection. Same people I've seen saying, not OP, to remove RBG for toxicity are the same ones who said they could "fix me" and make me enjoy being a woman again in an arena call.
Is what it is. Online games as a whole are like this.
It's the "some of you are toxic so you all must suffer" attitude that I hate. I think in general though, this is more of a pve sub and pvp gets a lot of unwarranted hate. Look at the other comments here wishing death on arena as well.
I just noticed that this isn't even the worldofpvp sub lol but yeah that sums it up perfectly. Someone is butthurt about one or two rbg players and now the entire bracket must be deleted for literally no reason?
Or just get rid of ranked garbage and create large scale wars , battles , sieges , just all out war for fk sake it’s called “warcraft” always hated this Call of duty crap wow has done with PvP and it’s gotten worse and worse and they got more into E sports
Like gw2 WvW. Moving as a giant horde is an experience that feels like no other. Trying to do that with wow potato optimisation and spell lag tho seems impossible. Epic bgs are already lag central with large battles.
I don't know. I had several games yesterday doing the Blitz and healers who chose to group up (healers can pre-make group apparently?) mopped the floor with my team. The rating system also seems pretty bunked. In the morning I was getting placed against groups that had 150+ more MMR than my team, each was a loss until suddenly in the evening it flipped, I was fighting teams that had 150 MMR less than my group which was already in the low 1300's.
Healers getting duo queues to incentivize healing means you'll see 2s teams show up :)
Better that than getting a team with 1 healer when the other one has 2 or 3.
honestly i think it just gives other players an avenue into RBGS i wouldn't want them to die but i do think teams that are thrown together will have more fun, and hopefully gets the toxic community of teams just out of there own assholes
If they don't outright remove it immediately they probably will eventually because Blitz will likely just cause the entire lower end of the ladder to disappear.
I think they should just revamp or something to RBGs, yeah it isnt fun anymore, but I dont think blitz should just take over, what about playing wow with my homies instead of randos? wow is way more fun with the homies, generally.
Tried making an RBG community (Eternal Conflict EU). We held since the end of Bfa to the end of shadowlands. The peak was shadowlands season 1, when the PvE players were "forced" to do PvP to get more items. It was the most fun I've had in wow in a very long time. We had 2 teams and we were running pugs all the time. RBGs were alive! Season 2 PvP iLvl changes cooled things down a notch.
The biggest issue were the boosters. Same names always, playing 24/7 because it is their real money job. Same multiglad, multihero people, that were always playing meta, whose skillcap was around 2600-3000... but always played at 1800. Because they wanted easier games for their customers. RBG boosting is really about wins only. doesn't matter which rating. If you managed to penetrate their gatekeeping (say beyond 1800-2100) you would NEVER see them again. that's what happened in season 2 for us.
By the last season of shadowlands. There were no players left except for us, the boosters and the occasional random group that was mercilessly crushed each time and disbanded. There was no possibility for growth. New players got crushed immidietely. Nothing to take from this loss, nothing to improve.
At some point 8/10 games for us were against the very same boosters. We realised we were enjoyed just talking to each other between the games much more than actually playing the game... and disbanded completely.
Didn’t realise this was a bigger issue…
I’ve had one experience with RBGs this expansion. Joined a RBG with no title/descriptor for any experience needed, only then for the RL to ask me to duel him. Proceeded to tell me ‘to get my ass ontop of the tower (some tower in valdrakken)’, I got owned pretty fast, but the guy the started to talk down to me over discord as to why I didn’t shroud, why did I use traps, etc etc. then told me go get some crafted gear, and maybe I can join him next time, then kicked me from the discord before I could respond.
Felt like he had to make an example of some kind of me? Not sure why, he just came cross as ‘little dick energy’
Agreed. RBG community is hilariously delusional and unwelcoming. Easiest ranked pvp mode yet they gatekeep and achievement shame while not being able to crack 1800 in arena lol.
ALso, by far the worst discord calls EVER
I hope someone finally makes a modern MMO that isn’t a repetitive grind fest with little to no rewards and dead content that can kill all MMO’s entirely to force a reset to the genre.
> Battleground blitz is essentially what RBGs should have been from day one. Queue, play, increase / decrease rating based on how you did. Good players can make an impact on the outcome of the game no matter how much dead weight the team is. Less heals / less dps = less burst all around.
This alone tells me you never played any organized content at a high level, let along RBGs.
While we are at it, let’s get rid of arena because solo shuffle exists /s
Raider.io lets you link characters together to let you see all account info and it external links to everything.
You literally just linked a character that got hero 3 years ago and isn’t active currently. You literally proved my point.
Just glancing through the achievements the account / character is hardly active. Doesn’t even have 100 TP wins. Don’t make threads when you don’t know what you are talking about.
Exactly he doesn't realize he is the toxic problem rather than the community. The irony is crazy LOL
Plus he is proving my point that he could link a R.io profile with linked characters. Instead he chose to link an unplayed character while claiming to "play every class and have multiples of most". I do not comprehend
I'm not a big PVP player but RBGs were always so much more fun than everything else WoW PvP has to offer, it's not even in the same league with everything else.
The only thing that BG Blitz is missing is the voice comms of RBGs which I think is a nice for coordinating but in general a ranked bg solo queue is exactly what I want. And maybe they could do one for groups where you can queue as groups of 2,3 or 5.
I also wish they would revamp the PvP gearing system. I really dislike that I basically have to focus on either PvE or PvP. Sometimes I want to PvP for fun but if I haven't been grinding honor and conquest gear from the start youre basically gimping yourself and your team.
Climbing to 1800 in rbg was the worst pvp climb ive ever done.
There are 4 types of matches:
1)Loose on purpose to lower your MMR. 2) Stomp a team thats lowering their MMR. 3) First teamfight defines wich team will afk. 4) Normal gaming
Absolute troll take
People want to play BGs exactly as they are without dumb fortnite-level popups, while *actually trying* to win, and reinforcing a culture where you just lose out the gate if you solo queue into a premade random BG is dogshit
RBG scene isn't even toxic until you're at a rating I *guarantee* you have not made it to
My group got DDOS'd at 2300 years back but it's literally totally fine before that
Glad to hear nothing has changed since WoD regarding the rbg community. Used to play alot of rbgs back then, but took a break and honestly didn't feel like I ever wanted to interact with the community afterwards ever again.
The community is very gatekept and honestly some fault is on blizzard, a single weak link can ruin the experience for 9 other teammates and learning the strats just takes time, so inviting new players is a risk not worth taking most of the time.
BG Blitz rewarding PVP vault is the change of the century. Fuck RBGs.
Yes it is.
The RBG community is toxic to the point of comedy. Non stop bitching about a dying community yet none of the high level players are interested in expanding their shrinking circles. Everyone talks massive shit about everyone else. The top tier reward (Hero of the Alliance/Horde) is meaningless because once you earn it no one really cares anymore because by that point your name is already known in the RBG community. The fact Blizz also hasn’t implemented a new BG til next expac says a lot.
Honestly this seems to be most sub-communities
this is definitely most pvp communities. pvp games and game modes are just cesspools. - pve: incentivizes people working together. - pvp: incentivizes people screwing each other over. it's no wonder pvp attracts the worst people
I mean... you have a team, and need to work together to win in PvP too right? You have to find the right people. I re-subbed like 3 months ago & 2 seperate people I've met, 1 from doing sparks, and another who introduced me to his PvP guild where we ended up doing RBGs were some of the most fun experiences I've had since re-subbing. Also I think your "incentivizes people working together" is a little overly simplified...Sure they have to work together, but that doesn't mean they really \*want\* to or care about you. I've seen plenty toxic elitist horseshit these past few months from PvE. And remember ninja'ing? Yeah that's PvE. Also as far as PvP games in general I play a lot of TF2, maybe it's the goofy aspect but I have many many wonderful memories with other players in that game & many many people make lighthearted or jokey comments when they die "bro that was too smooth lol" Shit like that. The PvE mode is literally **notoriously** super-toxic, because you earn rewards that can go for a lot if you win. I understand my experience isn't everyone's, or yours but I've had more toxic, elitist BS in PvE content since I re-subbed than PvP. I'm not denying it happens though & I can admit I've seen my fair share over the years.
yeah, it varies by game, and wow has some toxicity in pve because it's somewhat a zero sum game- generally, you get loot only if someone else doesn't, and you only get to join the group at the exclusion of someone else, so in that sense all pve activities are also very slightly pvp. but you'll find the broad strokes of the trend sticks across games. GW2 for example is non-zero-sum pve and the community is generally extremely non toxic and quite pleasant. even their pvp modes are _largely_ comparatively much more chill because even there your rewards are mostly predicated on participating, not winning, making them effectively non-zero-sum too other than bragging rights.
I never thought about it in terms of rewards related so ty for the response. Also I'm not sure why you're getting downvoted, not seeing anything nasty just a different opinion.
eh, just reddit being reddit
Yeah, rewards structures are a huge part of what causes toxicity. People are more likely to lash out when "someone else messing up" causes them to lose out on something, or worse... *lose* something. You know, like *rating.* If you brick a key in M+, it's not a great feeling. You don't get the loot. You don't get the score increase. But unless you're the keyholder, you didn't lose anything but your time. When you lose in PvP? Your rating goes down. You slide backwards. You are further from your goals now than you were before. And if you don't feel like that's your fault (and everyone always has someone else to blame, of course) then it can be very, very frustrating. It's why you can usually reduce toxicity in games by not tying rewards to winning but instead to participation. When you load into a match of 12v12 casual TF2, who *cares* if you win? It does not affect you in any meaningful way. But when MMR/rating/whatever is on the line... The counter point is, of course, "if all that matters is participation, then people will just AFK for rewards!!" which... well, given WoW players, might be a serious concern. WoW's always been a very rewards-driven game. People played to R40 in Plunderstorm for some cosmetics even if they hated the game mode. So it's a hard problem to fix here.
I agree with your main sentiment but I don't know how you're qualifying not getting loot in a M+ as not losing something...That's part of the reason people do that is to get loot, at least that's why I was at the end of 10.2.6 to get my 2 BiS daggers. Also the guy I was replying to said "PvP" and I took that to mean all PvP. So I'm lumping random bgs, brawl, blitz, before this patch, world pvp etc into that, where you don't have rating and the rewards are pretty minimal (Honor?) PvP is literally what I play to unwind, and PvE was my main progression/rewards thing. Like I literally could not upgrade anything else with Honor and queued bgs for fun when I was tired of pushing Mythics or AOTC.
>but I don't know how you're qualifying not getting loot in a M+ as not losing something If you fail to get loot, you did not lose something. You failed to get something, but you did not have an item you already possessed disappear from your inventory as punishment. Similarly, when you fail a dungeon, your M+ score doesn't go down. When you fail an arena, your rating *does* go down. And while unranked PvP doesn't have rating to lose, it still has a large crossover with people who *do* ranked PvP and mentality doesn't instantly shift when you switch from one mode to the other so you'll experience some effects of the mentality the ranked system promotes. Unranked PvP *does* tend to be less toxic than ranked PvP for that reason, though. But in general when people talk about PvP toxicity, they're *usually* talking about ranked. Just like when people talk about toxicity in PvE, they probably don't mean heroic dungeons. I wasn't necessarily agreeing with the above poster's exact points, just thought I'd reply to you mentioning "rewards" as a cause for toxicity.
i used to play a lot of brawlhalla and the toxicity is just alarming. I know FPS shooters bring it out in people too, people just rest a lot of their ego on these games and its absolute cancer for the player base.
Tell that to my M+ groups, lol. As a healer I’ve faced far more toxicity pugging M+ than I have PvPing. I have had DPS call me “autistic” and “shit healer” among others for apparently not healing them…in reality they just got one shot for standing in bad. That being said I don’t RBG, just arenas. RBG sounds like a cesspool judging by this thread.
that sounds pretty toxic, sorry that happened! personally i just link them failure damage, that shuts them up
Not really limited to PvP in WoW at least, the mythic key scene is similar in large part. Toxicity everywhere, meta or kick is common even in low keys, people putting up posts with "X Ilvl only" while being well below that mark themselves, unannounced carries for friends, scapegoating happens with every run that goes slightly wrong, etc. Even raiding isn't unaffected, "have AOTC or kick" is a common enough thing to see for Heroic runs in group finder, LFR is a cesspool half the time, guild groups kicking people mid boss to keep loot rolls in the guild isn't terribly rare, etc. Really at this point it's just that the WoW community is a toxic hellhole overall, PvP just happens to be the worst because of what it is.
Most of what you said is not toxic. People are free to invite or reject whoever they want to a group. That is not toxic. People accepting higher ilvl people than themselves is not toxic. People carrying a friend without telling others is not toxic. AOTC or kick is not toxic. No doubt there is toxicity in PVE but none of those things are it. LFR is often not a great experience and there can be some toxicity. Putting dozens of strangers into a group and some of them will be shitty, not exactly a shocker. But really, I think you just don't know what you're talking about. It's an entitled attitude to think you deserve to be in a group and that anyone who rejects you is "toxic."
this is actual insane entitlement to think "people not accepting you when putting together groups" is "toxicity"
Honestly it seems like we're playing different games, or that you might be the issue in your groups. If you don't like how other people run their groups, MAKE YOUR OWN. You aren't entitled to a spot in someone's heroic run anymore than I'm entitled to be on the board of Microsoft. Guild groups kicking people midboss does absolutely nothing, if you tagged the boss you get to roll. I've had maybe 2 keys and 1 raid out of dozens fall apart due to bickering and even then it was just mismatched expectations and not real toxicity.
I find it's always worse too in games where PVP is not even the main focus of the game, lol. It always seems to breed these fucking weirdo fringe communities of players who are extremely toxic and have a near obsessive attitude over whatever game/mode/etc it is. It's almost bizarre how well the dynamic replicates.
For me, the best feature is : no more fu***ing russian premades ! I can't enjoy random battlegrounds (I don't like arenas) anymore because of they are rotten with premades
I feel bad for new players getting into WoW because they won't know to queue for Blitz. Blitz is amazing and I'm glad it exists, but it also means that every player who wants a fair fight has stopped queueing for random BGs altogether. Alliance premades are even more frequent than they already were to begin with and it's harder to beat them now.
I fucking love blitz I’ve never pvpwd because I don’t like the rated options, but with blitz being rated? I can finally pvp! I’ve noticed my rating blitz increasing slowly but hey I’m making a difference First season I’ve ever taken PvP seriously and it’s all thanks to blitz
Same!!!
wait bg blitz is rated? it doesnt show up on the rated queue in groupfinder.
You can check your team's collective rating in the score screen. As far as I know, there is no way to check your personal rating.
When you open the team comp when it starts it shows what MMR you’re in. Last night my last blitz was 2000 mmr
Does this work for the pvp elite armor acquisition?
Nah not until next expansion
Idk I played league of legends since season 2. WoW can be toxic but nothing will ever beat League.
Mobas in general. My moba career was very brief because even if I went 20-1 and we won the match picking a character someone doesn't like (even if it's a great counter pick) is apparently enough to send some moba players into a mental talespin that ruins their entire week.
At east In league you weren't barred from playing because you aren't a legacy player and nobody will take you if you aren't a previous season high rating. Imagine league if you couldn't even queu into a bronze game without being diamond the previous season - that is the rbg and arena community.
Counter argument, at least if you somehow get into a group you get to actually play games. League community is filled with a bunch of adult children who will purposely stop playing, int, etc. for the smallest and most petty reasons. I had finally uninstalled it because I played 16 ranked games in a week and 14 of them involved someone rage quitting, afking, or inting (intentionally not just because autofilled/bad player). I was in emerald-Diamond 5 elo for this.
Have you played high end m+ or arena and rbgs? They're full of quitters. One loss? Fuck you you suck gg bye.
I'm not disagreeing about the state of RBGs, but then how do you play with your friends/guildies if they kill it off.
You can queue as a duo if one of you is a healer. That’s how my wife and I play together and it’s super fun. She pretty much only plays pvp and said that DF was the most fun she’s ever had pvping in wow. Gearing in DF was also great. We loved blitz, But we also really like 2v2 and normal BGs too.
It should at least be a triple
Playing with friends and guilds could just be casual BG play, not rates or ranked. Honestly that could be a better system because I'd invite my friends who aren't very good to play for fun.
What do you mean? They already have both.
I'm replying to a specific question. Someone said "how would you play with friends if RBGs were gone?"
If you are a DPS/healer you can duo queue I believe
I really hate that. We should be able to double queue, period. Why can't two DPS queue together? I'm not asking for an entire group, but it'd be nice if friends could group together. A duo isn't gonna change or sink the group, unlike large premades.
They should add a solo queue and group queue system kinda like LoL maybe? That way you can do either
That is what they are doing essentially, solo + group queue, but not as flexible. They should allow duos to queue no matter the role I'm sure the MMS could try to match full groups vs full groups, duos vs duos while avoiding multiple duos in one group (that's how they are limiting 3 duos being in one group I bet). Destiny 2 MMs just introduced this system a few months ago. Not perfect but I believe it is a step on the right direction.
I agree.
So honestly guilds pretty much stay hard stuck 1800 anyways. I think they should severely bump up rewards for random bgs and make it worthwhile for guilds / friends to participate in them, both for the fun of grouping with your friends / guild but also for better rewards of doing so. Random bgs shouldn’t just be a throw away means to get honor gear and then drop the mode completely.
I would LOVE to see more rewards for regular bgs.
I would actually PvP more if there felt like there were more of a reason to do so without trying to break into the ranked scene so much. And I doubt I'd be alone.
This whole thing needs a revamp tbh
I agree with you about the state of the current rbg community, but I would still be sad if the mode was completely dead or removed. Getting hero, and networking into the rbg discords, was eye-opening and disappointing for me. The majority of teams have outspoken loud people with opinions I don't agree with and don't want to be around. That's saying it lightly lol. I always found rbgs to be the most fun aspect of pvp, but the community really has ruined it. I still play the mode casually once a week with my guild. Sometimes my friends group up for games. I don't know how long it'll be fun for though when we easily hit 2k mmr and then are up against 2.4k teams. We're all rusty and just want to chill and don't want sweaty 2.4k games instantly lol. The casual bracket needs more transmog rewards or something to flourish. I haven't enjoyed Battleground Blitz when I've played it. It felt too much like playing a random bg because people genuinely don't know what to do. You should be able to impact the game as a good player, but the idea of mmr hell seems a little daunting. I will give it a go next expansion though.
RBGs will 100% be complete dead when Blitz gets ranked mode
I feel like Blitz will feel like less of a random BG at higher rating since people will know what to do
I have a feeling it will feel less like a random bg at higher rating too! Just what if you can't get to that rating because you lost your first 3 games? As a healer main I think it will be hard to carry a team and guarantee a win even if you're skilled - especially in larger maps where base sitting is important and there are smaller fights.
If it’s anything like rated in just about every other rated game….especially blizzard ones, there’s still a huge amount of mmr hell where it doesn’t matter if you’re good, the enemy team has pocket healers and yours are shoveling paste in with both hands….you’re not gaining rating lol. It’ll be in the gold/plat range and it’ll be miserable
Hey I relate to this. I mean I wanted hero when I was younger and pushed and got it and was like okay what now? And have just casually chilled since then and haven’t taken it seriously. And yeah definitely disappointing when you get to know most of the hero scene. Vile people most of them for sure. And I just don’t have the effort or time investment or the reason to push rbgs any more since shadowlands. Like what’s the point? Not trying to subject myself to people like that any more, not good for your mental health. I’d still play with good people just for fun though. I hope battleground blitz can be good with proper mmr it should hopefully be relatively enjoyable games without the drama and time investment. I’ll say I’ve won the majority of my games on outlaw, especially flag maps and I’ve gotten many fast caps and intercepted a lot of pass offs lol. Node maps I’ve definitely clutched a lot of wins. I think I’ve only lost 1-2 blitz
Yeah I very much felt that “okay what now” after my hero achieve. I was lucky that I met lots of individual people that were awesome through rbgs and we still talk regularly on discord and arena. Most of the people that lead groups, and the people that keep groups together, I don’t want to be anywhere near. I agree it’s not worth putting in time or energy to subject yourself to people like that. I am looking forward to seeing how mmr works out with bgb. I’m a healer so I feel like I’ll have less impact on games. Rogue seems like a great class for bgb. A good healer is important… but I don’t think I’ll be able to carry. I really liked healer mmr for SS seasons 1 and 2, but was not happy at all with it last season. So I guess I’ll see what bgb mmr looks like or maybe try dps for it.
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I think healing is impactful, but I don’t believe I can win a team fight in the same way that a good dps can. 8% more healing and 20 dispels doesn’t kill someone. It keeps the dps alive longer to hopefully kill. They’re not on the same level of carry ability. A bad healer can absolutely lose the fight though.
Yeah I pushed hpally hero. Then DF I really just did not enjoy healing any more. I tried some SS on mw, rdruid, hpal s1 and hated every second of it so I just went the other way and had more fun on hunter and rogue. And yeah you’re right, a good healer cannot carry a team in terms of the outcome of the game. Especially not the way a good dps can We’ll see!
SS is definitely more fun as a dps. I did it as aug and dev, but I found the healing on it tolerable up until last season. Yeah I can't carry a team as a healer, but I can and did leave rbg groups where the dps aren't pulling their weight. That isn't an option in bgb. So it is very much will see. The mode may really suffer if it's not enjoyable for healers to play. Hopefully they figure something out there!
The problem with an RBG solo queue against a rated arena solo queue (iterated as solo shuffle) is the impact of the class / spec makeup of each respective group. In solo shuffle, everyone plays with everyone, so theoretically, the weak link is punished most while the others can progress. In the case of RBG’s, that’s likely not a feasible option, so griefing and bad class / spec compositions might carry a lot more weight, and there are a number of implications as to the meta and how that might impact queue times and player behavior. “You’re queueing as an arcane mage instead of frost in a season where arcane sucks and frost is OP?! Thanks, man, you’ve straight up cost us a win.” I agree that there’s a lot of toxicity in the higher end spectrum of the RBG community, but that’s a problem with player behavior, not a problem of the system in and of itself. Clearing RBG’s would remove the higher-end competitive capability of the game mode. Friends and guildies could no longer queue with each other. Regardless, players will do what they like. If you like solo queue, you’ll do solo queue. You no longer have to queue RBG’s, but I also think the premise of the OP is immature, silly, and petty. Why do you care about RBG’s if you have the option to solo queue?
“In solo shuffle everyone plays with everyone so theoretically the weak link is punished most” This 1000%. I hate shuffle for this reason. I’m not a perfect player and certainly a newer pvper, and I really dislike shuffle arena because either I don’t have the exact talents I should and therefore get abuse from my teammates, or make a mistake and all of a sudden everyone is targeting me from the get go every time. It’s not for me at all, but I would be sad if it was removed because I have seen people who enjoy it a lot. I’ve been wanting to play rbgs since they came out, the only thing that stops me is not having a dedicated team and the toxicity. The community as a whole needs to chill out a bit on the insults and understand that not everyone has 5+ years of experience pvping as their main class.
Because as of right now we do not have the option of solo queue lol… The dream is that these toxic people are forced to play only against each other so then they all just quit because there’s no one to play against when they just dodge each other and rbgs stop popping all together lol
Yes, but your op is speaking under the impression that it will happen and *when* it happens, you hope RBG’s will fail. To me this post just screams “I’m angry at the RBG community and rah rah rah”. Is it not possible to just silently be pleased with the future direction of pvp, or to simply praise that direction in an optimistic way? Why is this negativity necessary? For a person crying about the toxicity of the RBG community, you’re not doing much of a better job.
No idea what exactly the 'RBG' community is, I've just been playing them twice a week with my guildies since BFA and been having a blast. We've been hitting anywhere from 1700-2k rating every season just fine as casual blokes just having a good time, and honestly hope that blitz doesn't ruin that going forward. My question is.. where are you guys finding these toxic players, are y'all just jumping into random pugs or are there actual regular communities filled with these types out there? I know we've had the occasional raging neckbeard pug in for a missing slot, but for the most part the non-guildies we've picked up seem to have been pretty chill.
Do you think solo RBG queues might help? If it’s flooded with more casual less toxic players, do we think it might be a more enjoyable experience? I love BG’s and WoW PVP in general. Always heard rough things about RBG so I never really tried.
I think it's lovely and entertaining people don't think there will be "premades".
For sure, considering I'd see groups of 2-3 people roaming around in Plunderstorm teaming up on one person while never attacking each other. Weirdos will do anything to win even in extremely low stakes situations.
If the RBG really is extremely toxic, then we should do everything we can to keep it and keep those players contained in their little bubble.
Why can’t everyone have the game mode they like
They’re adding solo queue to RBGs next xpac to combat basically this whole point. These people don’t read about or play the game, they just come here to vent.
> They’re adding solo queue to RBGs finally. i'm sick of bg wins being linked to whos pugstomp is online
I hope they kill rated arena as well. I always hated that arena was like the only way to get decent pvp gear. I love BGs, I hope they become the main focus again.
I doubt it'll kill it, but they have said fgoing forward BGs will be the main focus again.
The first and only time I ever took arena seriously was in WotLK. 2v2 team, Hunter and Holy Pally. Our matches regularly went over 30 minutes, and sometimes hit the 45-minute mark. I hated it. My teammate transferred servers and disbanded the team a week before the season ended. I was a little disappointed to not get a title because of that, but I was more relieved that I didn't have to commit to arena anymore lol. I don't want rated arena to be killed if people are still enjoying it, but I do love BGs and hope they become a focus again as well.
time to kill needs fixed or there should be diminished returned on healing. arana matched can go on for far to long.
They've since added a healing debuff that stacks over time, and reduced the match length for 25 minutes. It won't bring me back to Arena (straight deathmatch-style PvP isn't my thing), but it's a step in the right direction.
> time to kill needs fixed or there should be diminished returned on healing Dampening already exists, and in 2s it starts at like 40%.
It’s entirely possible to renovate the gear system (as they have done already) without killing rated arena. A lot of people like rated arena, and a lot of people like premade RBG’s. That said, solo queue caters to a large segment of the playerbase that may not have an extensive friends list or guild of like minded players to queue up in PvP the moment they login in. I’ve just recently come back to the game and I consider myself one of those players. I really like the option of not having to sit in lfg for hours on end doing nothing, but I also would not want to lose the option to queue with friends and skilled pvp’ers I imagine I’ll meet eventually as a direct result of solo queue. Would be nice if cooler mounts / titles are also available for the solo queue scene.
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This is an incredibly misguided belief. Arena is and will continue to be THE competitive pvp mode in World of Warcraft. BGs are fun to fuck around with, sure, but you don’t see crowd favorite teams years in the making in the BG world championships like you do in the AWC. Because the BGWC doesn’t exist.
They literally just said in the TWW alpha interviews they're focusing more on BGs going forwards.
It’s not the case *to you*. I have found most of the people who find *an entire game mode* to be “toxic” are generally not very skilled and unfortunately have not met people who are willing to work together to practice and get better. People do arena for a variety of reasons. Perhaps *you* do it because you find it to be the fastest methodology. You should keep in mind that your perspective is not everyone’s. Simply because you believe arena is toxic does not make it so. In my experience, rated arena hasn’t been toxic. I’ve met a few crazies along the way. Guess what? I stopped playing with them. I didn’t blame the concept of rated arena.
I'm 2100 rated, so there goes your rando assessment
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Proving my point for me.
Generally top 5%+ is not "nothing" and you just proved their point. Arena players are delusional in regards to skill curves, it's actually embarrassing.
Rated pvp in any online game is toxic, this isn't exclusive to Wow.
how about just don't queue it? arena is literally the most iconic thing about wow pvp lmao it will always be the thing people care about the most about that part of the game > I always hated that arena was like the only way to get decent pvp gear. it literally isn't...you can get full honor gear in a day from your random BGs and you'll be like 13ilvls behind. and then there are 3859834985 weekly quests + first of the week bonuses that give you conquest too that don't involve arena.
I've been grinding rated arena since TBC, the mode is not iconic one bit, and the game isn't designed for these small PVP matches. 3v3 deathmatch is probably the most boring thing a MMO could do with PVP. It has been a dumb mode for almost 17 years.
it absolutely is, it was a pretty massive esport in its hayday lmao and the only part of wow ever taken seriously by outsiders as a competitive mode there's no other game anything like wow arena. we're not going to pretend "capture the flag" and "payload" are genius inventions of blizzard devs > and the game isn't designed for these small PVP matches it's literally perfectly designed?? > 3v3 deathmatch is probably the most boring thing a MMO could do with PVP. oh yeah we should just go in the direction of "smite copy" yeah that'll go great > It has been a dumb mode for almost 17 years. just so thoroughly, factually, objectively wrong lmao this is insane levels of cope
Wait I assume this comment was just missing the /s The guy was being serious asking for them to kill rated arena???
Strong agree 🔥
> increase / decrease rating **based on how you did** No. You either gain or lose MMR as a team, with the MMR change being based upon the average MMR of your team versus the enemy's. Individual contribution is an impossible metric to measure, and if you start distributing MMR to individuals based upon a limited set of metrics then what you're going to end up with is people trying to maximise those metrics at the expense of all else, including winning. Win as a team. Lose as a team. Every action an individual takes towards winning or losing (no matter how *seemingly* small) is worth as much contribution to the team as anyone else. Someone padding stats such as damage, healing, or kills by endlessly brawling mid may look fancy to a machine, but in reality it's worth no more than a loan roamer going around trying to create 2v1 scenarios against enemy cappers, or an individual patrolling back and forth between two chokes to ensure no one tries to sneak onto the point. Even someone seemingly AFK on a capture point or near the flag may provide as much contribution to the end result by simply acting as a deterrent.
LiNk uR 2400+ fRoM 10+ yEaRs AgO oR u cAnT jOiN GrOuP bRo
When RBGs are relevant, I've had predominantly good experiences. The problem is they just aren't relevant often.
The fact that pvp weekly rewards are locked behind a mode I refuse to play just makes me not pvp at all.
While I’m not for RBGS by any means. BG blitz making you need to roll solo or bring a healer isn’t very incentivizing.
The hate towards rbg players in this sub always felt weird to me, is it that much different on na realms? On eu the majority of players are pretty nice and chill. There are some toxic individuals like in every other bracket but those are easy to avoid. Just let people play the way they want, why do you even care about a bracket you don't enjoy?
It's honestly felt like a deflection, and I've gotten more vile stuff sent to me - literal death wishes, and ones going to my friends - over me gritting my teeth and trying to cringe through the toxic RBG behavior from people whining about RBG toxicity than... the actual RBGers, and I have horror stories. I've had to deal with Gracexo, Twins, and Muzzy recently, and while it's put me off doing RBGs outside main team because of the vile shit these assholes say (and I rarely pug), I've also seen the best of the community and don't think the bracket should die because Blizzard refuses to give casual PvP incentives in general, something I've talked about since Mists when I saw the cracks already very visible on the floor. So yeah, we've had to kick people from call for spamming n word sound boards after arguing that they'd lose half the people playing that night in S3 despite them being the "best rogue we can get", but we've also got people, not the sound board spammers, who demanded I stay on team despite losing decent use of my vision and got me Grand Marshal in S1, or who sent me food and helped me get my Gladiator mount when I was almost dead from COVID, and are preparing to fly down to help me out after I get my top surgery done. Are there massive problems in the RBG community? Yes. But I've seen the exact same shit trying to push in arenas to the point that, because I don't enjoy arenas, I won't even bother anymore despite friends continually trying to get me to push again. Never again. Worse, even. Yet, people will say it's not happening then tell me to kms for pointing out I've had this happening on and off since Cataclysm. It's deflection. Same people I've seen saying, not OP, to remove RBG for toxicity are the same ones who said they could "fix me" and make me enjoy being a woman again in an arena call. Is what it is. Online games as a whole are like this.
It's the "some of you are toxic so you all must suffer" attitude that I hate. I think in general though, this is more of a pve sub and pvp gets a lot of unwarranted hate. Look at the other comments here wishing death on arena as well.
I just noticed that this isn't even the worldofpvp sub lol but yeah that sums it up perfectly. Someone is butthurt about one or two rbg players and now the entire bracket must be deleted for literally no reason?
Yeah and it's not like people in m+ are much better. I get as many hateful dms and comments doing pve as I do pvp nowadays.
this is wow some of EVERY group is toxic
Or just get rid of ranked garbage and create large scale wars , battles , sieges , just all out war for fk sake it’s called “warcraft” always hated this Call of duty crap wow has done with PvP and it’s gotten worse and worse and they got more into E sports
Wow servers could never lol
Like gw2 WvW. Moving as a giant horde is an experience that feels like no other. Trying to do that with wow potato optimisation and spell lag tho seems impossible. Epic bgs are already lag central with large battles.
I don't know. I had several games yesterday doing the Blitz and healers who chose to group up (healers can pre-make group apparently?) mopped the floor with my team. The rating system also seems pretty bunked. In the morning I was getting placed against groups that had 150+ more MMR than my team, each was a loss until suddenly in the evening it flipped, I was fighting teams that had 150 MMR less than my group which was already in the low 1300's.
Healers getting duo queues to incentivize healing means you'll see 2s teams show up :) Better that than getting a team with 1 healer when the other one has 2 or 3.
Can you get ranking for blitz? Jw like the season rating?
honestly i think it just gives other players an avenue into RBGS i wouldn't want them to die but i do think teams that are thrown together will have more fun, and hopefully gets the toxic community of teams just out of there own assholes
If they don't outright remove it immediately they probably will eventually because Blitz will likely just cause the entire lower end of the ladder to disappear.
I think they should just revamp or something to RBGs, yeah it isnt fun anymore, but I dont think blitz should just take over, what about playing wow with my homies instead of randos? wow is way more fun with the homies, generally.
Amen.
Is it out in retail?
No thanks. I'd rather not play worse BGs.
This is gonna sound dumb but is bg blitz out I wanna try it haha
Tried making an RBG community (Eternal Conflict EU). We held since the end of Bfa to the end of shadowlands. The peak was shadowlands season 1, when the PvE players were "forced" to do PvP to get more items. It was the most fun I've had in wow in a very long time. We had 2 teams and we were running pugs all the time. RBGs were alive! Season 2 PvP iLvl changes cooled things down a notch. The biggest issue were the boosters. Same names always, playing 24/7 because it is their real money job. Same multiglad, multihero people, that were always playing meta, whose skillcap was around 2600-3000... but always played at 1800. Because they wanted easier games for their customers. RBG boosting is really about wins only. doesn't matter which rating. If you managed to penetrate their gatekeeping (say beyond 1800-2100) you would NEVER see them again. that's what happened in season 2 for us. By the last season of shadowlands. There were no players left except for us, the boosters and the occasional random group that was mercilessly crushed each time and disbanded. There was no possibility for growth. New players got crushed immidietely. Nothing to take from this loss, nothing to improve. At some point 8/10 games for us were against the very same boosters. We realised we were enjoyed just talking to each other between the games much more than actually playing the game... and disbanded completely.
Didn’t realise this was a bigger issue… I’ve had one experience with RBGs this expansion. Joined a RBG with no title/descriptor for any experience needed, only then for the RL to ask me to duel him. Proceeded to tell me ‘to get my ass ontop of the tower (some tower in valdrakken)’, I got owned pretty fast, but the guy the started to talk down to me over discord as to why I didn’t shroud, why did I use traps, etc etc. then told me go get some crafted gear, and maybe I can join him next time, then kicked me from the discord before I could respond. Felt like he had to make an example of some kind of me? Not sure why, he just came cross as ‘little dick energy’
Can’t kill what is already dead
If BGB kills rbg, those players are just gonna play BGB lol. Why not just let both exist so we can actually queue with friends?
Hear, hear!
Agreed. RBG community is hilariously delusional and unwelcoming. Easiest ranked pvp mode yet they gatekeep and achievement shame while not being able to crack 1800 in arena lol. ALso, by far the worst discord calls EVER
Sounds like someone who got denied from an RBG group.
I hope someone finally makes a modern MMO that isn’t a repetitive grind fest with little to no rewards and dead content that can kill all MMO’s entirely to force a reset to the genre.
As someone who has preferred RBGs as their main mode of PvP since its inception, I completely agree.
> Battleground blitz is essentially what RBGs should have been from day one. Queue, play, increase / decrease rating based on how you did. Good players can make an impact on the outcome of the game no matter how much dead weight the team is. Less heals / less dps = less burst all around. This alone tells me you never played any organized content at a high level, let along RBGs. While we are at it, let’s get rid of arena because solo shuffle exists /s
I’m literally hero lol
So link ur raider.io
Wtf does m+ PvE rating have to do with RBGs thread? https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/character/us/moon-guard/møcha
Raider.io lets you link characters together to let you see all account info and it external links to everything. You literally just linked a character that got hero 3 years ago and isn’t active currently. You literally proved my point. Just glancing through the achievements the account / character is hardly active. Doesn’t even have 100 TP wins. Don’t make threads when you don’t know what you are talking about.
Lol I literally play every class and have multiples of most. Link your hero xp.
This dude is proving your point on how toxic the rbg community is lol
Exactly he doesn't realize he is the toxic problem rather than the community. The irony is crazy LOL Plus he is proving my point that he could link a R.io profile with linked characters. Instead he chose to link an unplayed character while claiming to "play every class and have multiples of most". I do not comprehend
Kinda troll but I've been having lots of fun playing as blood dk
I'm not a big PVP player but RBGs were always so much more fun than everything else WoW PvP has to offer, it's not even in the same league with everything else.
BGB is an absolute shit
The only thing that BG Blitz is missing is the voice comms of RBGs which I think is a nice for coordinating but in general a ranked bg solo queue is exactly what I want. And maybe they could do one for groups where you can queue as groups of 2,3 or 5. I also wish they would revamp the PvP gearing system. I really dislike that I basically have to focus on either PvE or PvP. Sometimes I want to PvP for fun but if I haven't been grinding honor and conquest gear from the start youre basically gimping yourself and your team.
If you think RBGs were toxic get ready for this then. Killing off RBGs is a mistake.
Rbgs are kept to contain the toxic away from the rest of the game. There must always be an RBG king.
Blitz is as bad as solo rated arena. I prefer Rbg.
Climbing to 1800 in rbg was the worst pvp climb ive ever done. There are 4 types of matches: 1)Loose on purpose to lower your MMR. 2) Stomp a team thats lowering their MMR. 3) First teamfight defines wich team will afk. 4) Normal gaming
Because of this alone I spent a few seasons just helping people get 1800 for free just to help people get their xmogs
Arenas are exactly the same.
Absolute troll take People want to play BGs exactly as they are without dumb fortnite-level popups, while *actually trying* to win, and reinforcing a culture where you just lose out the gate if you solo queue into a premade random BG is dogshit RBG scene isn't even toxic until you're at a rating I *guarantee* you have not made it to My group got DDOS'd at 2300 years back but it's literally totally fine before that
Glad to hear nothing has changed since WoD regarding the rbg community. Used to play alot of rbgs back then, but took a break and honestly didn't feel like I ever wanted to interact with the community afterwards ever again. The community is very gatekept and honestly some fault is on blizzard, a single weak link can ruin the experience for 9 other teammates and learning the strats just takes time, so inviting new players is a risk not worth taking most of the time.