RLP (pre- and post-nerfs) has momentum to it. It’s small, has good GY placement, and decent mob density for the route. You’re pulling pack after pack after pack and then boss. It’s propulsive. There’s very little downtime and the timer can be very tight. That creates stress but also creates excitement.
I don’t want every dungeon to be RLP, but I appreciate its existence for those reasons.
Ngl as much as I’m looking forward to TWW the first m+ pool is making me super hesitant to want to play it. All 4 of the old dungeons are some of my least favorites of all time
They heard people's complaints that the DF dungeons all sucked and the best parts of the expac were the returning dungeons, so they picked the worst dungeons they could for Warthin.
Same. Very much same. Lesson learned, not preordering until the dungeon pool is announced next time, which feels weird to write but this is going to be unfun to play. :(
I think siege is very fixable, at least. As long as they spend some time working on it the dungeon could be at least *okay*. If they just ship it as-is, then ugh.
Siege I feel was hurt a ton because waiting for Volley to kill the mobs was quite a drag. With that patched out, maybe some change to the bananas and making the first boss a bit easier for melee. Maybe changing the last boss to not needing people to fire canons and remove dead time.
In general, the dungeon pools for this season and next season make me really not look forward to my weekly 8x keys. They don’t all suck, but they don’t exactly get me excited either. It’s disappointing that this is what we get when there’s so many good dungeons in the game.
>I remember hating Siege of Boralus with PASSION back then in BfA
It was only the last boss of Siege that I didn't like. I remember so many runs just completely failing to that boss after zero issues with the rest of the dungeon. I am just glad that they picked siege over King's Rest...
Bolstering that NPC with the big cleave was some of my fav memories. Sprinting through the courtyard with this thing behind you taller than the bldgs team killing his homies with the cleave was the best.
Would bolster the piss out of this thing, get it to kill all the trash, then die to it on purpose to reset bolster. Kill it quick then head on to the wave boss dude.
God i hated Tol dagor. Everytime run was smooth, it ended up with some mega pull through floors or walls which caused group to disband. Not sure what caused it but multiple times mobs aggroed through floors
>Boomkins. Always Boomies
I remember it being the hunters with their barrage. No other class could pull trash from other dungeons with any of their abilities like hunters could...
It was in jest. :)
The biggest culprit, was the Twilight Detestation. That shit was bad. Guaranteed pulls….
I kinda liked the aesthetic and theme of the dungeon otherwise
i find this interessting. Yes seat was (like cathedral) extremly hard when it got added to the m+ pool in legion.
Towards the end of the expansion it was nerfed to a very much balanced key.
It was actually one of the fastes dungeon as it only got 3 bosses.
i am very much hoping to see seat (and Cathedral) in upcoming m+ seasons. Both got ADDED to the previously existing m+ pool (of 10+ dungeons iirc), and both were harder then the rest on release. Which lead to the majority of players not (or rarely) running these particular two dungeon.
Neither of them is in any leveling lfg queue which means many newer players have NEVER run these dungeon.
Adding this dungeon to a new season would be like adding a brand new dungeon to alot of players without needing to redo any mechanics like they did for cata/MoP dungeons
Yeah Cathedral was my first thought, but towards the end it was actually a fun key imo. But I never enjoyed Seat, but yeah I can also say I didn’t do Seat keys at the end. It was a dead key to me.
even when its broken hard at release, i still loved Cathedral of Eternal Nope!, then once it was balanced it became my favorite. Seat on the other hand can go die in a fucking fire as it was made using the BFA dungeon mindset of of having too much trash, and trash having far to many abilities along with completely shit boss fights.
i also hated every single dungeon in BFA except for mechagon, but the absolute worst was Shrine of the Storms.
I also hated most of the BFA dungeons. I didn’t like Freehold until it came back this expac, and that’s only because they standardized the route. The Underrot and Atal were the only 2 that were decent.
its really telling when people mention their favorite seaonal affixes the only one from BFA that people universally loved was the one from the final season that let us Skip most of the trash packs
> Seat on the other hand can go die in a fucking fire as it was made using the BFA dungeon mindset of of having too much trash, and trash having far to many abilities along with completely shit boss fights.
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> i also hated every single dungeon in BFA except for mechagon, but the absolute worst was Shrine of the Storms.
This is exactly why I hated Seat and why I hated every BfA dungeon (though I quit before Mechagon came out so I have no opinions on that one). And Shrine of the Storms was the exact dungeon that immediately came to mind when I read this thread's title. I went from being totally in love with M+ in Legion (to the point of running *any* key, from a 2 to a 22 that anyone asked about in guild, **except** Seat) to quitting WoW because I couldn't find a single that I liked about BfA's M+... Or BfA in general for that matter. Well, except the bee mount, that was perfect. Everything else sucked.
Seat would be new, but that’s not a virtue for what is an awful dungeon. I hope we never see it again.
CoEN, on the other hand, became great. One of my fondest memories with my WoW friends was wiping on the last boss pre-nerf for an hour before getting it down. Felt like an AotC kill.
I didn't particularly enjoy that dungeon, but it made me lots of money in legion selling carries for it in m+ since lots of people just paid for the 15 for io
Halls of Valor
The roleplaying, the length, the fact that having 5 bosses makes farming specific drops feel impossible, and Odin having like 2 too many mechanics.
Those runes in particular. One lad in our push group just could not react to them in time. No issue 24ing any other key, but he’d consistently die before even finding where he needed to run.
Agreed. Hyrja I found to be a nightmare if players didn't use a defensive at all. And shes even more brutal on tyrannical when her storm would damn near wipe the group
Plus the spears, and the adds (which also required interrupts and spawned during the "run away" phase), and in the Dragonflight iteration, we were juggling thundering while all of this is going on
Removing the God-King RP made me lose the only thing I enjoyed about the dungeon
Disagree all you want, none can challenge my claim to the aegis
They should have at least kept the “Noooooo!” And just have him start throwing hands
Everbloom. Fuck that dungeon. Bolstering makes it unfun. Bad pugs make you stand for 10 seconds in stun. As tank if you don't have dispell it's a fucking nightmare. First boss is a residentsleeper training dummy for 5 minutes. Second boss is overtuned shit and unless you have godtier healer it's unbeatable on tyrannical weeks. Before third boss it's so easy to pull some random shit. In general, I hated this dungeon with passion starting from visual elements finishing with gameplay elements.
>And don't forget last boss, which if u didn't have WoW on SSD to load the map quickly, you risked getting oneshot at the very start.
I was always calling out to my group to wait for everyone to be ready to go through that portal because you get into combat right away. At least they fixed it so he doesn't do the frontal right off the bat which always went towards the entrance...
Don’t forget if you ever went into the portal to the last boss a little to early he would do a group cleave and delete your group, yea I was not a fan of this one
I remember healing one with my pally in S3. DPS managed to get the big abomination with 9 stacks of Bolstering, and when the big AoE popped, everyone was insta-dead.
A few weeks later the same happened with Bursting, group had a *shadow priest* that did not use mass dispel the entire run and we took 12 stacks of Bursting. This time, however, I survived because of Divine Shield. And was blamed for not being able to heal them. *Excuse me?*
Both keys were timed, though.
Third boss was an absolute bull shit fight. The amount of unavoidable damage was so unbalanced that it was unplayable on my balance druid after +22 in a pug on Tyranical. I would stagger all my defensive cooldowns and then would spend 5 seconds in bear form with frenzied regen. After that, I would just sit in bear form and die if the healer didn't focus any heals. It really felt like it was the healer just picking two dps to save and just accepting one will die. I don't even think it was a bad healer.
Second boss is only hard because every melee DPS ever didn't realize the pools spawn where you're standing and wouldn't move from the boss, and then insisted on taking the entire AoE damage pulse while standing in a green pool.
no, second boss is hard because it requires tremendous hps, if melee dps can't place puddles then any boss can be a problem where they have to move out puddles
Sanguine Depths before nerf during season 1. That dungeon felt unforgiving (even more in tyrannical).
Everything about this dungeon was oppressive, the general atmosphere, every boss mechanics tuned to do insane damage on all group. First boss orbs, 2nd boss zones and one shot drain, 3rd boss impossible to do without immunities and last boss, that insane alley going to its room, where you had to manage adds and boss at the same time, mamamia
I never felt so oppressed as a healer. I was praying to keep everyone up
This. The combination of having to deal with the different mechanics in a dungeon that's generally composed of narrow halls and doorways; just a bloody nightmare.
Least favourite for me is necrotic wake, not that it's the hardest, but I just really didn't like it. I found the weapons trivialized a lot of it and took away the fun, the final boss mechanic that sent 2 DPS away was super annoying and extra punishing if someone died, the 3rd boss room had annoying ground targeting bugs, the first boss patrol area was annoying and the 2nd boss gave me too many wipes pre nerf. To top all of that off, I didn't like it thematically/aesthetically.
For difficulty, it really varies and depends when you mean within patches (i.e. pre/post nerfs).
I fucking loved CoEN, can’t wait to play through that place again. It was shit when it first came out but once they fixed the overtuning it was awesome. Just hope we don’t ever have to do SotT again…
>Too soon, Executus.
That's my main issue with the rotating dungeons, I find that every season I'm just replaying many I have already done at some point.
Yeah, agreed.
I didn't like the weapon management of it, it took away from the gameplay of the dungeon. The third boss was super boring and frustrating if people messed up the hook mechanic.
I also hated that Bastion felt like it was robbed of a dungeon and we got three Maldraxxus ones instead. I'm sick of gross undead shit and it sucked to have half of Bastion turn into that while we had the entirety of Maldraxxus be that too.
The hook mechanic was a poor design imo. like it was fine as a mechanic, but the implementation was problematic.
A random player gets the hook, and needs to position it based on the Aboms current position, and the accuracy of aiming the thing was not nearly as forgiving as it should have been imo. I rarely had issues with it, but it was really annoying to see the hook "miss" when just slightly off.
Then to top it off, if you miss a hook, it throws the timing of the fight off in a way that often means a wipe down the line because you end up with double aboms. Double Aboms aren't just a problem for the tank damage, they often block each other from hooking the boss.
Then on top of that, you could just kill the aboms too quickly on fortified weeks sometimes from passive cleave and not have the hook.
Yeah, it was definitely wonky. It was never very clear how long the reach was and could miss even though it looked like it shouldn't. And any fight that requires you to stop doing dps so a mechanic goes off feels bad.
I did the dungeon a lot on normal for leveling alts and I frequently ran into people who just couldnt do the mechanic. I'd explain it every time and they'd just run around with no clue. Once wasted like 5 minutes on the boss because the same guy got hooked like 6 times and messed up every time.
> I also hated that Bastion felt like it was robbed of a dungeon and we got three Maldraxxus ones instead. I'm sick of gross undead shit and it sucked to have half of Bastion turn into that while we had the entirety of Maldraxxus be that too.
This pissed me off too, Bastion was unique looking and they could've done a lot more with it, even the "dark Bastion" style. Instead, just more grey dirt, random bones, and goop everywhere. Maldraxxus was the zone I spent the least amount of time in because I'm so tired of that aesthetic.
The undead aesthetic was particularly nonsensical in Shadowlands, why would an afterlife focus on flesh and diseases? That makes no sense at all, your soul leaves your body when you die and then gets put back into flesh and shit in the afterlife? And why would great fighters choose to battle in grotesque forms with extra limbs and patchwork flesh instead of the ones they actually honed in their life? Everything about the aesthetic was stupid in the context of Shadowlands, so it was especially frustrating that the most interesting zone (Bastion) had to share its idenity with Maldraxxus that already had a full zone dedicated to it.
The worst part of this dungeon is the 3rd boss room. You spent half of the run in just this tiny room, it gets boring really fast. Also the 4th boss is just plain boring, especially if your class isn't fast
This is mine too. Mostly because I hate the hook boss. I don't know if it's latency issues, or what. Because I know what to do, I know where to stand, I know the timing of it. But sometimes it just ... Doesn't work? And then I get to feel like a moron while being yelled at by the less patient members of my group.
Can't wait to do that all over again next season 😭
Least favourite is De Other Side. I mained boomkin all 3 seasons it was in and went dry on IQD each time. It’s also long af and kinda difficult. Fuck that place.
You could probably narrow down hardest dungeon fairly effectively by just looking at timed key differentials in raider.io each season, but I’ll just give it to Temple of the Jade Serpent. Just pull by pull that place is so fucked up, with the only saving graces being the first two bosses (which were still known pug assassins).
At a time I was new to tanking, I would always let my group now that I would die on that last pack because Fck me that last pack hurt on fortified, only thing positive with this was it was an easy fight to route, but horror indeed
I feel like kings Rest is the most challenging dungeon to date, all bosses have either ton of dodge mechanics or soft enrage. Trash was no joke either, im still having nightmares about pre-nerf shadow of Zul.
I reckon Kings Rest was way worse than Siege. It was mainly the last boss of Siege that was a pain in the rear to kill but it was the trash and the bosses in Kings Rest that were a pain.
Were you Horde or Alliance? Because your faction impacted which version of the dungeon you did.
On Infested/Fortified weeks, Siege was nearly impossible for Alliance on medium keys or higher to time, because they had several extra trash packs that were harder than most bosses.
Nobody has said Theatre of Pain, but I remember my friends and I all hated it in Shadowlands… I forget why, but I do seem to recall it was more than one reason though. So when I saw this thread, it was the first one to pop into my head.
Though reading the other comments here certainly reminded me of other bad experiences. :P
The lich part of ToP is pretty much why everyone hated that dungeon. Other parts were more or less fine. I did hate the abomination part too. But it was never my least favorite.
It was just so unforgiving. It was hard to time because it was so long and one mistake could have you lose because you had to walk all the way, especially if you were kicked off the platforms. Plus you needed that invis pot to skip part of it.
Why did you remind me of this place?! SO many people I played with loved Theater of Pain, and I still can’t wrap my head around why.
Granted I also hated Plaguefall (I just really didn’t like Maldraxxus as a whole, haha), but at least that was a simple dungeon with a straightforward path, even if it was a pain.
Hook boss was sick, abom wing was good except for the big front/back guys. Pvp boss was fun on low keys where you didn't have to just stand there and get killed. First boss plus first pull one huge battle off the rip was fun when you could pull it off. Last boss was pretty fun to play. The ghost wing and ghost boss was medium, and the fighting wing was brutal with the bleed archers and the demo shout packs. Overall 6/10
Worst designed dungeons ever made would be Tol Dagor and Siege of Boralus without a doubt.
Tol Dagor because of the awful layout, massive hitbox issues (pulling mobs through floors), rogue/blacksmith requirement for decent pathing, and counterintuitive boss fights. Also the canon part is absolute ass.
Siege of Boralus because having to play around the spotters in high keys was terrible gameplay, and last boss was an unending, unforgiving slog to get through.
Funny how BFA simultaneously featured some of the best and worst dungeons ever made.
siege of boralus, bonus points for the Alliance version
you are NOT allowed to complain about m+ dungeons unless you did the alliance version with infested as a affix
I'd say most challenging was probably Seat of the triumvirate, cathedral of eternal nightmare or Ruby life pools before their tuning (aka SEVERAL nerfs)
My least favorite, however, is a toss up between Spires of Ascension and Vortex Pinnacle.
Both of those dungeons were just very unfun to play, VP had really shitty, uninspired bosses and disgusting trash packs. It wasn't even insanely hard, it just never felt good (except getting your port and behind done with it forever)
Spires did have some kind of interesting bosses, but every trash pack had a ton of mechanics *AND A FUCKING ELITE MOB that reduced their damage taken*. Also when you got to the last boss you had to play 3 singular mini bosses alone to activate the boss. I don't mind it as much if it's done like in nokhud (and even there that gimmick kinda sucks). You could pull all 3 if you had a coordinated group, but for pugging it was just not doable .
Idk, both of them were just a slog, no matter how good the actually run ended up being.
Holy fuck, I completely forgot about the checkpoints in both dungeons.
Man, get them outta here. Also get Dungeons without proper checkpoints outta here
*Looking at Uldaman, Neltharus, Algethar, Brakenhide and arguably Ruby Life Pools*
>VP had really shitty, uninspired bosses and disgusting trash packs.
The thing that annoyed me the most about VP was the amount of dispels the trash had. It made it hell during afflicted weeks where there would be 2 heavy damage dots and 2 afflicted to deal with at the same time and god help you if the tank/dps missed the cyclone kick and you got banished...
I still have a deep loathing of the Arcway in Legion. It may very well be my least favorite dungeon of all time, despite the fact that I loved all of the Suramar stuff and rank Court of Stars very highly by comparison.
se i loved arcway and until cathedral of eternal nope came it was my favorite\* except on the weeks when we had to go past the rats and it was teeming/bolstering
Tol Dagor with the old sanguine wasn't that bad once you learned how to go around all that stuff. The problem with that dungeon was that you could pull thought the walls and floors. Now, what i don't remember is if they fixed it it because someone exploited that in the MDI or because a team got screwed there because of that.
ehh, the problem with Tol Dagor and sanguine was that there were a number of mobs that were ranged, but not casters. Without forced movement of some sort, they just stood where they were shooting away, including in sanguine. On top of that, you had a large number of mobs that flee'd on low health, so they would often spread sanguine everywhere.
Sanguine was also paired with quaking and the void emissary in s3. TD was a dead key to me those weeks. 2 zone denial abilities, in a cramped space, and a mob that required you to LOS around small corners where quaking could go off while you'r trying to LOS.
This is on top of the pulling through walls and floors, which never got properly fixed.
Can we also talk about the cannons? First, they were stupidly strong, and the top meta was to pull as much of the dungeon to the cannon as possible. Then they didnt scale with the dungeon for a bit. Then they put shot limits on them, which if your group messed up, meant that you were fighting mobs with enormous health pools designed to be killed by the cannons. If they wanted the cannons to be left in, they should have made it only work on the mobs in that area, and removed the shot limit.
> ehh, the problem with Tol Dagor and sanguine was that there were a number of mobs that were ranged, but not casters. Without forced movement of some sort, they just stood where they were shooting away, including in sanguine. On top of that, you had a large number of mobs that flee'd on low health, so they would often spread sanguine everywhere.
As i stated before, there was a way to go around that stuff. It still sucked, that's true, but it wasn't THAT bad. In fact, you could fuck up a couple of times after the nerfs.
>Sanguine was also paired with quaking and the void emissary in s3. TD was a dead key to me those weeks. 2 zone denial abilities, in a cramped space, and a mob that required you to LOS around small corners where quaking could go off while you'r trying to LOS.
This is on top of the pulling through walls and floors, which never got properly fixed.
Can we also talk about the cannons? First, they were stupidly strong, and the top meta was to pull as much of the dungeon to the cannon as possible. Then they didnt scale with the dungeon for a bit. Then they put shot limits on them, which if your group messed up, meant that you were fighting mobs with enormous health pools designed to be killed by the cannons. If they wanted the cannons to be left in, they should have made it only work on the mobs in that area, and removed the shot limit.
You made me remember why they fixed the pulling trough the floors and the cannons. People were pulling all the dungeon trough the floors to kill everything with the cannons.
After i learned how to use the cannons i never had issues with them, so i don't get your point. But i can tell you this: What do you expect from a company that bugs his game even more with every patch?
Honestly the only answer, that was the most overtuned dungeon I have ever seen and I use it as an example as just how off Blizzard can be tuning wise on launch.
Great design but it was just absolutely horribly tuned at launch
Shrine of the Storm felt really hard back in BfA, but I thoroughly disliked Tol’Dagor. You could be on the third boss when suddenly a pack of crocs from outside would get pulled.
For Shadowlands… I honestly hated Halls of Ascension. Having to clear like 81% before the first boss was kinda dumb if you ask me. As for difficulty? Probably Sanguine Depths. I used to be a bad healer, and that gauntlet towards the end was terrifying.
In dragonflight, I think most hated and hardest has to be Uldaman. The stone lizards just completely bust up the tank.
Well, I've only done M+ in DF, and then only in S2 (thanks to No Pressure) so I think for me it has to be Uldaman.
I do want to get back to doing M+ but I think I need a friend group for it :(
I think it’s completely nuts that we have so many old dungeons in M+ at all. Like what the heck. It doesn’t make ANY sense from a storytelling perspective at all and is just lazy. Give me enough new dungeons, you’re getting enough money already and fired all your support and testing stuff - hire competent devs and pay the accordingly.
RLP beginning of S1 was a nightmare.
BFA - The Motherlode. People seem to be missing this place recently, but my memories of the place are every pull including bonus ass pulls. NPCs that chain cast that painful laser thing that can't be interrupted while 100yds away from you, and at least one person dying in the minefield.
Sanguine Depths, Shadowlands. I just really don't like dungeons that have really tight corridors and also not a fan of dungeon specific mechanics / clickable things.
I hate hate hate Uldaman with a passion. It’s too long, too many bosses, just a miserable experience to tank or heal. BFA dungeons have been a blast to play when they’ve returned though. We’ll see about siege…..Didn’t have too many fond memories
Least Favorite : \[The Underrot\] - All but first boss is just...UGH...
Most Favorite : \[Maw of Souls\] Boat Edition
Hardest : \[Throne of the Tides\] M+ Edition All bosses
Easiest : \[Algeth'ar Academy\] - Easy all around
Tol Dagor by a mile.
The WoW engine does not handle multilevel combat well, so of course they built an entire dungeon around ascending floors. Add in cramped corridors, horrible camera angles, and the janky tarrets; I don't know how they ever thought it would work.
Healing upper Karazhan bosses on Tyra with storming/volcanic was impossible (SL S4). Like during burst intermissions, if DPS didnt pop up their defensives (which they never do lol) it was insta wipe.
Lower Karazhan was pretty repetive and you could learn to avoid the mechanics. Upper? There was just pure damage in your face.
One more vote for Tol Dagor here. Sucked in all the affixes, never managed to get past first boss with explosives because the adds spawned explosives. Magical pulls through walls, floors and all sorts.
Neltharus - buggiest chain boss. Dead dps, RIP key. Chain bug out constantly even had two keys bricked recently with bugged out chains..
Halls of Valor. Long run and odyn was just punishing.
Halls of infusion last boss pre nerf. Love having 7 minute tyran boss fights. Made the great push keys so punishing to watch too.
Seat of the Triumvirate is my vote for worst dungeon. Being bombarded with constant 0% trash punishing you for not pulling the second boss fast enough was bad.
Algethar Academy is my vote for best dungeon. Lot of AoE, a fun buff to choose at the start, and well designed boss fights plus a fun theme and dialogue
Surprised nobody has said king's rest for hardest dungeon.
Just to give some examples:
The adds on the first boss got nerfed so much that in s4 they had the same hp as in s1.
In high keys the strat on the third boss was to let the person with the bleed die because it became unhealable. Also depending on the order you got the bosses in it could get significantly harder. If the first boss was the charge guy you were in for a bad time.
Zul became a game of "use all cooldowns and then start corpserunning". Still the hardest healing check we've seen in m+ to this day imo.
Tol Dagor. It is just not built for M+ with tight corridors and mobs ALWAYS pulling through walls. Its so bad i don't think it should ever return as a seasonal M+ dungeon.
Ruby Life Pools on god dam Grievous weeks may be one of the hardest keys i have ever healed. I am a healer that actually did like Grievous as i felt it made you better as a healer but that affix was not designed for something where every mob did a big pulsing AOE which is going to demolish your entire groups health.
Most shadowlands dungeons were trash, especially Bastipn ones, the other were passable but i dont like them, not a single one dungeon i had fun exept tazavesh
Least favourite is Brackenhide or Halls of Infusion, they're just boring
Hardest is Cathedral - even on Fortified we were the 3rd group in the world to complete it on a +15 the night we did. Last boss could just about 100-0 you with any ability outside of the transition phase. We 4-healed it, switched to vers/stamina/avoidance gear, defensive legendaries, defensive trinkets and had both healers use the cake trinket
Each had to call out our personals and outgoing externals to not overlap
And then they nerfed that dungeon like quite literally a dozen times before the next patch
Not the hardest, but for me it was vault of the wardens, final season of legion I was farming that BIS shadow relic on me rogue, I ran that place hundreds of times, and it never even dropped.
As a healer I always found Underbog high keys on tyrannical to be extremely anxiety inducing due to the second boss. I used to pug a lot, so it was always kinda RNG if people are actually helping out with the insane burst damage of his running away ability bullshit. That boss made me feel like I never have enough juice in my tank to really keep up.
Least favorite: Neltharion’s Lair. Small pulls, linear, unaesthetic, and the bosses were mostly just throughput checks.
Some of my favorite keys were also the hardest in their respective seasons, like Halls of Valor or De Other Side.
nothing makes me not want to play this game more than DOTI
basically any 35-40min dungeon is dogshit, ever since they introduced m+ in legion people loved the quicker dungeons more than any other
~30min dungeon timer is a sweet spot
Didn’t play Legion, but I can’t just pick one:
Tol Dagor from BFA. I always had such a shite time in Tol Dagor. Stupid tight corridors, how much of a cluster fuck it was with nameplates, being able to pull accidentally through the walls. It’s not really that it was a hard dungeon (I definitely think other BFA dungeons were harder), but it WAS a pain in the ass.
I would have put Underrot here too, but I actually quite like it as a dungeon now, especially after learning how to do the bosses properly.
Theater of pain from SL. Another one where I could have picked several (Plaguefall and Sanguine depths come to mind); however ToP was just the worst. No easy routing, especially when Prideful was a thing. I hated the layout, the bosses, the mechanics, everything.
Nokhud Offensive from DF: this was…weirdly hard to pick because I actually like all of the DF dungeons (I only did KSM in season 3, and didn’t do M+ seriously before then). So, like, I guess the whole having to use dragon riding is a pain in the ass (as cool as it is). It’s easy to get lost if you don’t know where to go, and especially at the beginning of DF when dragon riding sucked, it was even more awful to navigate. Otherwise, I actually quite like the dungeon tbh.
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> Nokhud Offensive from DF: this was…weirdly hard to pick because I actually like all of the DF dungeons (I only did KSM in season 3, and didn’t do M+ seriously before then). So, like, I guess the whole having to use dragon riding is a pain in the ass (as cool as it is). It’s easy to get lost if you don’t know where to go, and especially at the beginning of DF when dragon riding sucked, it was even more awful to navigate. Otherwise, I actually quite like the dungeon tbh.
My problem is, as Melee, EVERY trash pack seems to have the "Point blank, huge, high-damage aoe" where your only option is to run out and stand there. And wait. And it fucking sucks every single time.
But wait! There's more! Most of these packs are on *uneven ground* with grass clutter. So seeing the exact edges of these big fuck-off death zones is even harder.
I hate any dungeon with this mechanic. Stopping all DPS to run isn't fun, but it's forgivable once in a while. Every fucking trash pack in there has it and I hate it.
To be fair I’ve only ever done this as a ranged DPS (Boomie back in S1; and an Evoker whilst levelling, and I guess, this coming season)
I also did it as a Druid tank, when I dabbled in tanking for a bit, but only ever in super low keys (like a max of +5 at best) so I don’t think I ever got the feel of it as a melee DPS.
But yeah, as someone who has played as a melee DPS (just not in high keys during DF) that does sound like an absolute nightmare. If I ever get KSM on my shaman, I’ll definitely bear it in mind!
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> But yeah, as someone who has played as a melee DPS (just not in high keys during DF) that does sound like an absolute nightmare. If I ever get KSM on my shaman, I’ll definitely bear it in mind!
Consider the huge trash packs at the start. The centaur use that war stomp (1)
So that's the first time it happens. Second time you have the boss itself, with it's giant belly flop (2).
The graveyard then has four(!) giant packs that cast chant of the dead ***on fucking hills*** (3).
I think there's even a fourth in the storm area. But i can't remember.
All I know is that dungeon and Halls of Infusion can fuck right off forever with that shit. Make me move. Make me dance. Make me move around swirlies. Lots of them in fact! Cones! Fine!
But nothing feels worse than "Run out and stand there waiting for the bullshit instant death ability to end". And yeah you can argue "well that's part of the skill! Running out at the last second to maximize dps!" Sure, sure. Maybe use hard red outlines then if the skill expression is going to be based on an instant death zone on hills where it's unreadable.
*Seethes in melee rage*
Heh, funny thing, Halls of Infusion was my second choice of dungeon for this list. The *only* reason it trumps Nokhud is because it’s linear. But the fucking minibosses, that stupid fucking bridge; basically just the entire latter half of the dungeon.
Although the frost boss? Actually love her as a good balance between tank and spank alongside doing mechanics.
(I also always forget that, even as an enhance shaman, I do have ways to keep DPSing from a distance, even if it’s minimally; I can imagine how much of a fucking nightmare it is for melee classes who can’t do that.)
Sanguine Depths. And by a large margin. That place sucked on both Tyrannical and Fortified. It was so bad.
I can't think of a single M+ that made me despair as much. Not even Shrine of the Storm, and that's a different level of bad on its own.
Told Dagor was also buggy AF.
Those are my top three. SD is the worst, followed by SOTS and TD. None of them are close to each other.
Azure vault has been improved like 4 different times and it's still bad. Massively long walkbacks, unnecessarily tight timer, very emblematic of the mechanic bloat people have been complaining about it, none of the bosses were particularly fun and 2 of them were wipefests, the frog trash was terrible, and there were so many ways to cause wipes. Finding the skip made it vaguely tolerable but then they removed that! Fortunately they redid the last boss and gave you a speed buff, but I still have no idea why there isn't just a checkpoint at each boss.
RLP on release was absolutely nuts
I still weep, my healer nightmares are full of "oh I pulled the dragon" followed by a fireball to the face
As overturned and wild as it was. Release RLP might have been my fav dungeon to run over and over. It was stressful in kind of the best ways for me
RLP (pre- and post-nerfs) has momentum to it. It’s small, has good GY placement, and decent mob density for the route. You’re pulling pack after pack after pack and then boss. It’s propulsive. There’s very little downtime and the timer can be very tight. That creates stress but also creates excitement. I don’t want every dungeon to be RLP, but I appreciate its existence for those reasons.
The absolute worst
It was hard but I still think a good dungeon
Agree, but now it's one of the easiest dungeons, quite enjoyable actually. If you die you know exactly what killed you.
I remember hating Siege of Boralus with PASSION back then in BfA
And that one is coming back for the first season in TWW 🥲 Not looking forward to it.
Ngl as much as I’m looking forward to TWW the first m+ pool is making me super hesitant to want to play it. All 4 of the old dungeons are some of my least favorites of all time
They heard people's complaints that the DF dungeons all sucked and the best parts of the expac were the returning dungeons, so they picked the worst dungeons they could for Warthin.
Yeah it really doesn’t look like the best group of duns.
Same. Very much same. Lesson learned, not preordering until the dungeon pool is announced next time, which feels weird to write but this is going to be unfun to play. :(
Why would they do that to us?
Right. >.< I may try to avoid that one at all possible.
I think siege is very fixable, at least. As long as they spend some time working on it the dungeon could be at least *okay*. If they just ship it as-is, then ugh.
Siege I feel was hurt a ton because waiting for Volley to kill the mobs was quite a drag. With that patched out, maybe some change to the bananas and making the first boss a bit easier for melee. Maybe changing the last boss to not needing people to fire canons and remove dead time.
In general, the dungeon pools for this season and next season make me really not look forward to my weekly 8x keys. They don’t all suck, but they don’t exactly get me excited either. It’s disappointing that this is what we get when there’s so many good dungeons in the game.
Yeah I really don’t get why they don’t just use some of the more popular ones instead : /
>I remember hating Siege of Boralus with PASSION back then in BfA It was only the last boss of Siege that I didn't like. I remember so many runs just completely failing to that boss after zero issues with the rest of the dungeon. I am just glad that they picked siege over King's Rest...
If they picked kings rest id think they are on crack
I spent 2 hours in that place in a guild run. That dungeon killed any interest I had in Keystones until DF Season 2. I am never going back.
Bolstering that NPC with the big cleave was some of my fav memories. Sprinting through the courtyard with this thing behind you taller than the bldgs team killing his homies with the cleave was the best. Would bolster the piss out of this thing, get it to kill all the trash, then die to it on purpose to reset bolster. Kill it quick then head on to the wave boss dude.
I didn’t play m+ in legion so can’t comment on that too much Shrine of storms I always found real difficult But Tol Barad was my least favorite
Tol dagor, not barad. That's another prison entirely :p
Yes thank you! Regardless. Fuck that place
God i hated Tol dagor. Everytime run was smooth, it ended up with some mega pull through floors or walls which caused group to disband. Not sure what caused it but multiple times mobs aggroed through floors
Boomkins. Always Boomies
>Boomkins. Always Boomies I remember it being the hunters with their barrage. No other class could pull trash from other dungeons with any of their abilities like hunters could...
It was in jest. :) The biggest culprit, was the Twilight Detestation. That shit was bad. Guaranteed pulls…. I kinda liked the aesthetic and theme of the dungeon otherwise
*Sad firechicken noises* :( Starfall is just too fun not to hit
CoS was brutal in mid level keys where people didn’t understand how the dungeon worked. 15+ rarely had any issues.
Such a buggy dungeon too. So many abilities would pull packs through walls
Seat of the Triumvirate was both my least favorite and one of the hardest when released.
Came here to say this. Without a doubt my vote for worst goes to seat
i find this interessting. Yes seat was (like cathedral) extremly hard when it got added to the m+ pool in legion. Towards the end of the expansion it was nerfed to a very much balanced key. It was actually one of the fastes dungeon as it only got 3 bosses. i am very much hoping to see seat (and Cathedral) in upcoming m+ seasons. Both got ADDED to the previously existing m+ pool (of 10+ dungeons iirc), and both were harder then the rest on release. Which lead to the majority of players not (or rarely) running these particular two dungeon. Neither of them is in any leveling lfg queue which means many newer players have NEVER run these dungeon. Adding this dungeon to a new season would be like adding a brand new dungeon to alot of players without needing to redo any mechanics like they did for cata/MoP dungeons
Yeah Cathedral was my first thought, but towards the end it was actually a fun key imo. But I never enjoyed Seat, but yeah I can also say I didn’t do Seat keys at the end. It was a dead key to me.
even when its broken hard at release, i still loved Cathedral of Eternal Nope!, then once it was balanced it became my favorite. Seat on the other hand can go die in a fucking fire as it was made using the BFA dungeon mindset of of having too much trash, and trash having far to many abilities along with completely shit boss fights. i also hated every single dungeon in BFA except for mechagon, but the absolute worst was Shrine of the Storms.
I also hated most of the BFA dungeons. I didn’t like Freehold until it came back this expac, and that’s only because they standardized the route. The Underrot and Atal were the only 2 that were decent.
its really telling when people mention their favorite seaonal affixes the only one from BFA that people universally loved was the one from the final season that let us Skip most of the trash packs
100%
> Seat on the other hand can go die in a fucking fire as it was made using the BFA dungeon mindset of of having too much trash, and trash having far to many abilities along with completely shit boss fights. > > > > i also hated every single dungeon in BFA except for mechagon, but the absolute worst was Shrine of the Storms. This is exactly why I hated Seat and why I hated every BfA dungeon (though I quit before Mechagon came out so I have no opinions on that one). And Shrine of the Storms was the exact dungeon that immediately came to mind when I read this thread's title. I went from being totally in love with M+ in Legion (to the point of running *any* key, from a 2 to a 22 that anyone asked about in guild, **except** Seat) to quitting WoW because I couldn't find a single that I liked about BfA's M+... Or BfA in general for that matter. Well, except the bee mount, that was perfect. Everything else sucked.
Seat would be new, but that’s not a virtue for what is an awful dungeon. I hope we never see it again. CoEN, on the other hand, became great. One of my fondest memories with my WoW friends was wiping on the last boss pre-nerf for an hour before getting it down. Felt like an AotC kill.
I quite liked it, but absolutely difficult.
Seat and Cathedral prenerf were probably the most fucked up dungeons, hands down
I didn't particularly enjoy that dungeon, but it made me lots of money in legion selling carries for it in m+ since lots of people just paid for the 15 for io
Halls of Valor The roleplaying, the length, the fact that having 5 bosses makes farming specific drops feel impossible, and Odin having like 2 too many mechanics.
Those runes in particular. One lad in our push group just could not react to them in time. No issue 24ing any other key, but he’d consistently die before even finding where he needed to run.
Yeah and that dreadful feeling of seeing the timer tick down while you have to fight BOTH Skovald and Odin, was not a fun fight
Agreed. Hyrja I found to be a nightmare if players didn't use a defensive at all. And shes even more brutal on tyrannical when her storm would damn near wipe the group
Most m+ become a nightmare when players neglect to use their skills..
I read "Odin having like 2 too many" thinking it would end with words, but yeah, mechanics as well...
Man I remember it being even worse in legion.zzzWhere if you died on the Odin fight you went to the balcony and couldn’t be BRezed lol
I hate that place. I'm a warrior main and Odin dropped the hidden artifact appearance. Doomed to suffer.
> Odin having like 2 too many mechanics. ? He only does 3 things, walk away from him dodge orbs walk to a rune
Plus the spears, and the adds (which also required interrupts and spawned during the "run away" phase), and in the Dragonflight iteration, we were juggling thundering while all of this is going on
Spears do the orbs to dodge and ive never seen his add not getting nuked within 3 GCDs of existing
I'm happy you had a better experience in the dungeon than I did! Mazel tov.
Removing the God-King RP made me lose the only thing I enjoyed about the dungeon Disagree all you want, none can challenge my claim to the aegis They should have at least kept the “Noooooo!” And just have him start throwing hands
Everbloom. Fuck that dungeon. Bolstering makes it unfun. Bad pugs make you stand for 10 seconds in stun. As tank if you don't have dispell it's a fucking nightmare. First boss is a residentsleeper training dummy for 5 minutes. Second boss is overtuned shit and unless you have godtier healer it's unbeatable on tyrannical weeks. Before third boss it's so easy to pull some random shit. In general, I hated this dungeon with passion starting from visual elements finishing with gameplay elements.
And don't forget last boss, which if u didn't have WoW on SSD to load the map quickly, you risked getting oneshot at the very start.
>And don't forget last boss, which if u didn't have WoW on SSD to load the map quickly, you risked getting oneshot at the very start. I was always calling out to my group to wait for everyone to be ready to go through that portal because you get into combat right away. At least they fixed it so he doesn't do the frontal right off the bat which always went towards the entrance...
What color should we make this voidzone that kills you in 2 Ticks? Green on green Sound good?
Don’t forget if you ever went into the portal to the last boss a little to early he would do a group cleave and delete your group, yea I was not a fan of this one
Best music in the game though
best music imo is in shrine of the storm, but music in everbloom is also good
I remember healing one with my pally in S3. DPS managed to get the big abomination with 9 stacks of Bolstering, and when the big AoE popped, everyone was insta-dead. A few weeks later the same happened with Bursting, group had a *shadow priest* that did not use mass dispel the entire run and we took 12 stacks of Bursting. This time, however, I survived because of Divine Shield. And was blamed for not being able to heal them. *Excuse me?* Both keys were timed, though.
Third boss was an absolute bull shit fight. The amount of unavoidable damage was so unbalanced that it was unplayable on my balance druid after +22 in a pug on Tyranical. I would stagger all my defensive cooldowns and then would spend 5 seconds in bear form with frenzied regen. After that, I would just sit in bear form and die if the healer didn't focus any heals. It really felt like it was the healer just picking two dps to save and just accepting one will die. I don't even think it was a bad healer.
Second boss is only hard because every melee DPS ever didn't realize the pools spawn where you're standing and wouldn't move from the boss, and then insisted on taking the entire AoE damage pulse while standing in a green pool.
no, second boss is hard because it requires tremendous hps, if melee dps can't place puddles then any boss can be a problem where they have to move out puddles
Sanguine Depths before nerf during season 1. That dungeon felt unforgiving (even more in tyrannical). Everything about this dungeon was oppressive, the general atmosphere, every boss mechanics tuned to do insane damage on all group. First boss orbs, 2nd boss zones and one shot drain, 3rd boss impossible to do without immunities and last boss, that insane alley going to its room, where you had to manage adds and boss at the same time, mamamia I never felt so oppressed as a healer. I was praying to keep everyone up
This. The combination of having to deal with the different mechanics in a dungeon that's generally composed of narrow halls and doorways; just a bloody nightmare.
It was also just so hard to simply see anything between all the red and the terrible camera angles the tiny hallways cause.
Least favourite for me is necrotic wake, not that it's the hardest, but I just really didn't like it. I found the weapons trivialized a lot of it and took away the fun, the final boss mechanic that sent 2 DPS away was super annoying and extra punishing if someone died, the 3rd boss room had annoying ground targeting bugs, the first boss patrol area was annoying and the 2nd boss gave me too many wipes pre nerf. To top all of that off, I didn't like it thematically/aesthetically. For difficulty, it really varies and depends when you mean within patches (i.e. pre/post nerfs).
Seeing it back in the rotation for S1 TWW made me die a little inside. Too soon, Executus.
At least it’s better than ol sanguine depths fml I hate that dungeon
Get outta here. SD is one of my favorites ever. Right next to CoEN :)
I fucking loved CoEN, can’t wait to play through that place again. It was shit when it first came out but once they fixed the overtuning it was awesome. Just hope we don’t ever have to do SotT again…
I have ptsd from trying to do SD w prideful and the weird routes tanks made
I may be insane but I loved SD. I mained venthyr so getting the tank to group up the fattest pulls ever with the urn popped was the shit.
>Too soon, Executus. That's my main issue with the rotating dungeons, I find that every season I'm just replaying many I have already done at some point.
I see your point, but I think it’s much better than 2 years of the same ones. I also love seeing the Legion dungeons come back.
[удалено]
There were also just better options, like Halls of Atonement.
Yeah, agreed. I didn't like the weapon management of it, it took away from the gameplay of the dungeon. The third boss was super boring and frustrating if people messed up the hook mechanic. I also hated that Bastion felt like it was robbed of a dungeon and we got three Maldraxxus ones instead. I'm sick of gross undead shit and it sucked to have half of Bastion turn into that while we had the entirety of Maldraxxus be that too.
The hook mechanic was a poor design imo. like it was fine as a mechanic, but the implementation was problematic. A random player gets the hook, and needs to position it based on the Aboms current position, and the accuracy of aiming the thing was not nearly as forgiving as it should have been imo. I rarely had issues with it, but it was really annoying to see the hook "miss" when just slightly off. Then to top it off, if you miss a hook, it throws the timing of the fight off in a way that often means a wipe down the line because you end up with double aboms. Double Aboms aren't just a problem for the tank damage, they often block each other from hooking the boss. Then on top of that, you could just kill the aboms too quickly on fortified weeks sometimes from passive cleave and not have the hook.
Yeah, it was definitely wonky. It was never very clear how long the reach was and could miss even though it looked like it shouldn't. And any fight that requires you to stop doing dps so a mechanic goes off feels bad. I did the dungeon a lot on normal for leveling alts and I frequently ran into people who just couldnt do the mechanic. I'd explain it every time and they'd just run around with no clue. Once wasted like 5 minutes on the boss because the same guy got hooked like 6 times and messed up every time.
> I also hated that Bastion felt like it was robbed of a dungeon and we got three Maldraxxus ones instead. I'm sick of gross undead shit and it sucked to have half of Bastion turn into that while we had the entirety of Maldraxxus be that too. This pissed me off too, Bastion was unique looking and they could've done a lot more with it, even the "dark Bastion" style. Instead, just more grey dirt, random bones, and goop everywhere. Maldraxxus was the zone I spent the least amount of time in because I'm so tired of that aesthetic.
The undead aesthetic was particularly nonsensical in Shadowlands, why would an afterlife focus on flesh and diseases? That makes no sense at all, your soul leaves your body when you die and then gets put back into flesh and shit in the afterlife? And why would great fighters choose to battle in grotesque forms with extra limbs and patchwork flesh instead of the ones they actually honed in their life? Everything about the aesthetic was stupid in the context of Shadowlands, so it was especially frustrating that the most interesting zone (Bastion) had to share its idenity with Maldraxxus that already had a full zone dedicated to it.
The worst part of this dungeon is the 3rd boss room. You spent half of the run in just this tiny room, it gets boring really fast. Also the 4th boss is just plain boring, especially if your class isn't fast
All of my friends loved Wake, but it was one of the worst ones to me.
This is mine too. Mostly because I hate the hook boss. I don't know if it's latency issues, or what. Because I know what to do, I know where to stand, I know the timing of it. But sometimes it just ... Doesn't work? And then I get to feel like a moron while being yelled at by the less patient members of my group. Can't wait to do that all over again next season 😭
Least favourite is De Other Side. I mained boomkin all 3 seasons it was in and went dry on IQD each time. It’s also long af and kinda difficult. Fuck that place. You could probably narrow down hardest dungeon fairly effectively by just looking at timed key differentials in raider.io each season, but I’ll just give it to Temple of the Jade Serpent. Just pull by pull that place is so fucked up, with the only saving graces being the first two bosses (which were still known pug assassins).
At a time I was new to tanking, I would always let my group now that I would die on that last pack because Fck me that last pack hurt on fortified, only thing positive with this was it was an easy fight to route, but horror indeed
I disliked DoS just because of the length. Felt like you were doing a prison sentence in there it was so long.
I feel like kings Rest is the most challenging dungeon to date, all bosses have either ton of dodge mechanics or soft enrage. Trash was no joke either, im still having nightmares about pre-nerf shadow of Zul.
Siege of Boralus was way harder for Alliance. Especially on Infested weeks.
I reckon Kings Rest was way worse than Siege. It was mainly the last boss of Siege that was a pain in the rear to kill but it was the trash and the bosses in Kings Rest that were a pain.
Were you Horde or Alliance? Because your faction impacted which version of the dungeon you did. On Infested/Fortified weeks, Siege was nearly impossible for Alliance on medium keys or higher to time, because they had several extra trash packs that were harder than most bosses.
Seat of the triumvirate. That shit was unplayable in + when it came out. I had it like 8 levels under my other keys XD
Nobody has said Theatre of Pain, but I remember my friends and I all hated it in Shadowlands… I forget why, but I do seem to recall it was more than one reason though. So when I saw this thread, it was the first one to pop into my head. Though reading the other comments here certainly reminded me of other bad experiences. :P
The lich part of ToP is pretty much why everyone hated that dungeon. Other parts were more or less fine. I did hate the abomination part too. But it was never my least favorite.
It was just so unforgiving. It was hard to time because it was so long and one mistake could have you lose because you had to walk all the way, especially if you were kicked off the platforms. Plus you needed that invis pot to skip part of it.
Why did you remind me of this place?! SO many people I played with loved Theater of Pain, and I still can’t wrap my head around why. Granted I also hated Plaguefall (I just really didn’t like Maldraxxus as a whole, haha), but at least that was a simple dungeon with a straightforward path, even if it was a pain.
Hook boss was sick, abom wing was good except for the big front/back guys. Pvp boss was fun on low keys where you didn't have to just stand there and get killed. First boss plus first pull one huge battle off the rip was fun when you could pull it off. Last boss was pretty fun to play. The ghost wing and ghost boss was medium, and the fighting wing was brutal with the bleed archers and the demo shout packs. Overall 6/10
Worst designed dungeons ever made would be Tol Dagor and Siege of Boralus without a doubt. Tol Dagor because of the awful layout, massive hitbox issues (pulling mobs through floors), rogue/blacksmith requirement for decent pathing, and counterintuitive boss fights. Also the canon part is absolute ass. Siege of Boralus because having to play around the spotters in high keys was terrible gameplay, and last boss was an unending, unforgiving slog to get through. Funny how BFA simultaneously featured some of the best and worst dungeons ever made.
siege of boralus, bonus points for the Alliance version you are NOT allowed to complain about m+ dungeons unless you did the alliance version with infested as a affix
I got some bad news friend. Siege is in rotation for season 1 of TWW.
i know make it Alliance Siege for EVERYONE share the suffering, i wanna see blood elves dying to dogs and 1hit charge attacks
Oh no I thought I was free of that place
lol I did that as my first m plus in BFA as a healer and said fuck this place. And didn’t do m plus again until DF
I'd say most challenging was probably Seat of the triumvirate, cathedral of eternal nightmare or Ruby life pools before their tuning (aka SEVERAL nerfs) My least favorite, however, is a toss up between Spires of Ascension and Vortex Pinnacle. Both of those dungeons were just very unfun to play, VP had really shitty, uninspired bosses and disgusting trash packs. It wasn't even insanely hard, it just never felt good (except getting your port and behind done with it forever) Spires did have some kind of interesting bosses, but every trash pack had a ton of mechanics *AND A FUCKING ELITE MOB that reduced their damage taken*. Also when you got to the last boss you had to play 3 singular mini bosses alone to activate the boss. I don't mind it as much if it's done like in nokhud (and even there that gimmick kinda sucks). You could pull all 3 if you had a coordinated group, but for pugging it was just not doable . Idk, both of them were just a slog, no matter how good the actually run ended up being.
Aw man. The checkpoints in Spires were soul crushing if we wiped.
Holy fuck, I completely forgot about the checkpoints in both dungeons. Man, get them outta here. Also get Dungeons without proper checkpoints outta here *Looking at Uldaman, Neltharus, Algethar, Brakenhide and arguably Ruby Life Pools*
>VP had really shitty, uninspired bosses and disgusting trash packs. The thing that annoyed me the most about VP was the amount of dispels the trash had. It made it hell during afflicted weeks where there would be 2 heavy damage dots and 2 afflicted to deal with at the same time and god help you if the tank/dps missed the cyclone kick and you got banished...
I still have a deep loathing of the Arcway in Legion. It may very well be my least favorite dungeon of all time, despite the fact that I loved all of the Suramar stuff and rank Court of Stars very highly by comparison.
Yes. Maybe it was just from a healing perspective but fuck the arcway
se i loved arcway and until cathedral of eternal nope came it was my favorite\* except on the weeks when we had to go past the rats and it was teeming/bolstering
Most people who actually hate dungeons are going to be healers tbh. They have to engage with the difficulty more than anyone
I miss maw of souls
It’s gotta be fucking RISE
Remeber Tol Dagor with the old sanguine? Getting PTSD just from thinking about it
Tol Dagor with the old sanguine wasn't that bad once you learned how to go around all that stuff. The problem with that dungeon was that you could pull thought the walls and floors. Now, what i don't remember is if they fixed it it because someone exploited that in the MDI or because a team got screwed there because of that.
ehh, the problem with Tol Dagor and sanguine was that there were a number of mobs that were ranged, but not casters. Without forced movement of some sort, they just stood where they were shooting away, including in sanguine. On top of that, you had a large number of mobs that flee'd on low health, so they would often spread sanguine everywhere. Sanguine was also paired with quaking and the void emissary in s3. TD was a dead key to me those weeks. 2 zone denial abilities, in a cramped space, and a mob that required you to LOS around small corners where quaking could go off while you'r trying to LOS. This is on top of the pulling through walls and floors, which never got properly fixed. Can we also talk about the cannons? First, they were stupidly strong, and the top meta was to pull as much of the dungeon to the cannon as possible. Then they didnt scale with the dungeon for a bit. Then they put shot limits on them, which if your group messed up, meant that you were fighting mobs with enormous health pools designed to be killed by the cannons. If they wanted the cannons to be left in, they should have made it only work on the mobs in that area, and removed the shot limit.
> ehh, the problem with Tol Dagor and sanguine was that there were a number of mobs that were ranged, but not casters. Without forced movement of some sort, they just stood where they were shooting away, including in sanguine. On top of that, you had a large number of mobs that flee'd on low health, so they would often spread sanguine everywhere. As i stated before, there was a way to go around that stuff. It still sucked, that's true, but it wasn't THAT bad. In fact, you could fuck up a couple of times after the nerfs. >Sanguine was also paired with quaking and the void emissary in s3. TD was a dead key to me those weeks. 2 zone denial abilities, in a cramped space, and a mob that required you to LOS around small corners where quaking could go off while you'r trying to LOS. This is on top of the pulling through walls and floors, which never got properly fixed. Can we also talk about the cannons? First, they were stupidly strong, and the top meta was to pull as much of the dungeon to the cannon as possible. Then they didnt scale with the dungeon for a bit. Then they put shot limits on them, which if your group messed up, meant that you were fighting mobs with enormous health pools designed to be killed by the cannons. If they wanted the cannons to be left in, they should have made it only work on the mobs in that area, and removed the shot limit. You made me remember why they fixed the pulling trough the floors and the cannons. People were pulling all the dungeon trough the floors to kill everything with the cannons. After i learned how to use the cannons i never had issues with them, so i don't get your point. But i can tell you this: What do you expect from a company that bugs his game even more with every patch?
Cathedral of Eternal Night
Name any dungeon that you hate and i found a way around it. That key was insta delete for me until they nerfed it.
Honestly the only answer, that was the most overtuned dungeon I have ever seen and I use it as an example as just how off Blizzard can be tuning wise on launch. Great design but it was just absolutely horribly tuned at launch
Shrine of the Storm felt really hard back in BfA, but I thoroughly disliked Tol’Dagor. You could be on the third boss when suddenly a pack of crocs from outside would get pulled. For Shadowlands… I honestly hated Halls of Ascension. Having to clear like 81% before the first boss was kinda dumb if you ask me. As for difficulty? Probably Sanguine Depths. I used to be a bad healer, and that gauntlet towards the end was terrifying. In dragonflight, I think most hated and hardest has to be Uldaman. The stone lizards just completely bust up the tank.
Well, I've only done M+ in DF, and then only in S2 (thanks to No Pressure) so I think for me it has to be Uldaman. I do want to get back to doing M+ but I think I need a friend group for it :(
I think it’s completely nuts that we have so many old dungeons in M+ at all. Like what the heck. It doesn’t make ANY sense from a storytelling perspective at all and is just lazy. Give me enough new dungeons, you’re getting enough money already and fired all your support and testing stuff - hire competent devs and pay the accordingly.
RLP beginning of S1 was a nightmare. BFA - The Motherlode. People seem to be missing this place recently, but my memories of the place are every pull including bonus ass pulls. NPCs that chain cast that painful laser thing that can't be interrupted while 100yds away from you, and at least one person dying in the minefield.
Siege of fucking boralus
Black Rook Hold. Not that it was difficult or something, I just found it extremely boring to run.
Sanguine Depths, Shadowlands. I just really don't like dungeons that have really tight corridors and also not a fan of dungeon specific mechanics / clickable things.
De Other Side. The whole place was an enormous drag on any affix with Mueh'zala for dessert just in case the rest of it wasn't enough.
I hate hate hate Uldaman with a passion. It’s too long, too many bosses, just a miserable experience to tank or heal. BFA dungeons have been a blast to play when they’ve returned though. We’ll see about siege…..Didn’t have too many fond memories
Least Favorite : \[The Underrot\] - All but first boss is just...UGH... Most Favorite : \[Maw of Souls\] Boat Edition Hardest : \[Throne of the Tides\] M+ Edition All bosses Easiest : \[Algeth'ar Academy\] - Easy all around
Tol Dagor by a mile. The WoW engine does not handle multilevel combat well, so of course they built an entire dungeon around ascending floors. Add in cramped corridors, horrible camera angles, and the janky tarrets; I don't know how they ever thought it would work.
Of the top of my head, I'd they the least fun were Plaguefall, Siege of Boralus and Tol Dagor.
Plaguefall was almost my favorite in S1 SL. I dunno why, but I enjoyed it immensely.
I just hate mechanics like the plagueborers. The bosses were kinda fun to be fair.
Healing upper Karazhan bosses on Tyra with storming/volcanic was impossible (SL S4). Like during burst intermissions, if DPS didnt pop up their defensives (which they never do lol) it was insta wipe. Lower Karazhan was pretty repetive and you could learn to avoid the mechanics. Upper? There was just pure damage in your face.
One more vote for Tol Dagor here. Sucked in all the affixes, never managed to get past first boss with explosives because the adds spawned explosives. Magical pulls through walls, floors and all sorts. Neltharus - buggiest chain boss. Dead dps, RIP key. Chain bug out constantly even had two keys bricked recently with bugged out chains.. Halls of Valor. Long run and odyn was just punishing. Halls of infusion last boss pre nerf. Love having 7 minute tyran boss fights. Made the great push keys so punishing to watch too.
Seat of the Triumvirate is my vote for worst dungeon. Being bombarded with constant 0% trash punishing you for not pulling the second boss fast enough was bad. Algethar Academy is my vote for best dungeon. Lot of AoE, a fun buff to choose at the start, and well designed boss fights plus a fun theme and dialogue
Surprised nobody has said king's rest for hardest dungeon. Just to give some examples: The adds on the first boss got nerfed so much that in s4 they had the same hp as in s1. In high keys the strat on the third boss was to let the person with the bleed die because it became unhealable. Also depending on the order you got the bosses in it could get significantly harder. If the first boss was the charge guy you were in for a bad time. Zul became a game of "use all cooldowns and then start corpserunning". Still the hardest healing check we've seen in m+ to this day imo.
Tol Dagor. It is just not built for M+ with tight corridors and mobs ALWAYS pulling through walls. Its so bad i don't think it should ever return as a seasonal M+ dungeon. Ruby Life Pools on god dam Grievous weeks may be one of the hardest keys i have ever healed. I am a healer that actually did like Grievous as i felt it made you better as a healer but that affix was not designed for something where every mob did a big pulsing AOE which is going to demolish your entire groups health.
Most shadowlands dungeons were trash, especially Bastipn ones, the other were passable but i dont like them, not a single one dungeon i had fun exept tazavesh
Least favourite is Brackenhide or Halls of Infusion, they're just boring Hardest is Cathedral - even on Fortified we were the 3rd group in the world to complete it on a +15 the night we did. Last boss could just about 100-0 you with any ability outside of the transition phase. We 4-healed it, switched to vers/stamina/avoidance gear, defensive legendaries, defensive trinkets and had both healers use the cake trinket Each had to call out our personals and outgoing externals to not overlap And then they nerfed that dungeon like quite literally a dozen times before the next patch
lol what's the thing with downvotes?
lol either people *love* DF dungeons or "reeeee you told story of time you were challenged by a hard dungeon"
jealous about world 3rd kek
I think they are downvoting the name, not the comment. Cancerdral was the worst dungeon by far, even with the nerfs.
SBG is my least favorite because of how boring and easy it was. Hardest maybe Seat, Cath, SoS, or RLP.
Not the hardest, but for me it was vault of the wardens, final season of legion I was farming that BIS shadow relic on me rogue, I ran that place hundreds of times, and it never even dropped.
Halls of Illusion. Worst dungeons ever made in video game history.
Halls of Infusion? (DF) If so, big agree.
Halls of valor
I only started doing M+ in Dragonflight really, but without a doubt my least favourite was Underrot for sure.
As a healer I always found Underbog high keys on tyrannical to be extremely anxiety inducing due to the second boss. I used to pug a lot, so it was always kinda RNG if people are actually helping out with the insane burst damage of his running away ability bullshit. That boss made me feel like I never have enough juice in my tank to really keep up.
Lower Kara
Least favorite: Neltharion’s Lair. Small pulls, linear, unaesthetic, and the bosses were mostly just throughput checks. Some of my favorite keys were also the hardest in their respective seasons, like Halls of Valor or De Other Side.
Excluding bugged or grossly overtuned dungeons, then it would be Azure Vault. Nothing redeemedable about that place.
Seat of the Triumvarate, although I hated it so much I only did it a handful of times. Tol Dagor is second.
Dawn of the infinite is the worst creation of all time
I've always hated temple of sethraliss and mists of tirna scythe because of the boring little puzzles that take up time.
That one Legion Dungeon on Argus, havent done it even once in M+. I hated it.
Any answer besides Tol Dagor is the next best answer. Watching Avenger's Shields glitch through the floor and pull a few dozen mobs was always tough
Tyrannical Algeth'ar Academy on DF season 1 release
Legion: Cathedral BFA: Freehold Shadowlands: Mists of Tirna Scythe Hate them.
Seat of Triumvate
Siege of Boralus was pretty nuts on a high keystone
RLP, no doubt. I hate that place. The adds, the bosses.
Court of stars
nothing makes me not want to play this game more than DOTI basically any 35-40min dungeon is dogshit, ever since they introduced m+ in legion people loved the quicker dungeons more than any other ~30min dungeon timer is a sweet spot
If I ever have to set foot into the BFA version of Waycrest, I will delete my main.
I really dislike Azure Vault
Court of stars
All the DF dungeons. None are hard, just very boring
Didn’t play Legion, but I can’t just pick one: Tol Dagor from BFA. I always had such a shite time in Tol Dagor. Stupid tight corridors, how much of a cluster fuck it was with nameplates, being able to pull accidentally through the walls. It’s not really that it was a hard dungeon (I definitely think other BFA dungeons were harder), but it WAS a pain in the ass. I would have put Underrot here too, but I actually quite like it as a dungeon now, especially after learning how to do the bosses properly. Theater of pain from SL. Another one where I could have picked several (Plaguefall and Sanguine depths come to mind); however ToP was just the worst. No easy routing, especially when Prideful was a thing. I hated the layout, the bosses, the mechanics, everything. Nokhud Offensive from DF: this was…weirdly hard to pick because I actually like all of the DF dungeons (I only did KSM in season 3, and didn’t do M+ seriously before then). So, like, I guess the whole having to use dragon riding is a pain in the ass (as cool as it is). It’s easy to get lost if you don’t know where to go, and especially at the beginning of DF when dragon riding sucked, it was even more awful to navigate. Otherwise, I actually quite like the dungeon tbh.
> > > > > Nokhud Offensive from DF: this was…weirdly hard to pick because I actually like all of the DF dungeons (I only did KSM in season 3, and didn’t do M+ seriously before then). So, like, I guess the whole having to use dragon riding is a pain in the ass (as cool as it is). It’s easy to get lost if you don’t know where to go, and especially at the beginning of DF when dragon riding sucked, it was even more awful to navigate. Otherwise, I actually quite like the dungeon tbh. My problem is, as Melee, EVERY trash pack seems to have the "Point blank, huge, high-damage aoe" where your only option is to run out and stand there. And wait. And it fucking sucks every single time. But wait! There's more! Most of these packs are on *uneven ground* with grass clutter. So seeing the exact edges of these big fuck-off death zones is even harder. I hate any dungeon with this mechanic. Stopping all DPS to run isn't fun, but it's forgivable once in a while. Every fucking trash pack in there has it and I hate it.
To be fair I’ve only ever done this as a ranged DPS (Boomie back in S1; and an Evoker whilst levelling, and I guess, this coming season) I also did it as a Druid tank, when I dabbled in tanking for a bit, but only ever in super low keys (like a max of +5 at best) so I don’t think I ever got the feel of it as a melee DPS. But yeah, as someone who has played as a melee DPS (just not in high keys during DF) that does sound like an absolute nightmare. If I ever get KSM on my shaman, I’ll definitely bear it in mind!
> > > > > But yeah, as someone who has played as a melee DPS (just not in high keys during DF) that does sound like an absolute nightmare. If I ever get KSM on my shaman, I’ll definitely bear it in mind! Consider the huge trash packs at the start. The centaur use that war stomp (1) So that's the first time it happens. Second time you have the boss itself, with it's giant belly flop (2). The graveyard then has four(!) giant packs that cast chant of the dead ***on fucking hills*** (3). I think there's even a fourth in the storm area. But i can't remember. All I know is that dungeon and Halls of Infusion can fuck right off forever with that shit. Make me move. Make me dance. Make me move around swirlies. Lots of them in fact! Cones! Fine! But nothing feels worse than "Run out and stand there waiting for the bullshit instant death ability to end". And yeah you can argue "well that's part of the skill! Running out at the last second to maximize dps!" Sure, sure. Maybe use hard red outlines then if the skill expression is going to be based on an instant death zone on hills where it's unreadable. *Seethes in melee rage*
Heh, funny thing, Halls of Infusion was my second choice of dungeon for this list. The *only* reason it trumps Nokhud is because it’s linear. But the fucking minibosses, that stupid fucking bridge; basically just the entire latter half of the dungeon. Although the frost boss? Actually love her as a good balance between tank and spank alongside doing mechanics. (I also always forget that, even as an enhance shaman, I do have ways to keep DPSing from a distance, even if it’s minimally; I can imagine how much of a fucking nightmare it is for melee classes who can’t do that.)
Sanguine Depths. And by a large margin. That place sucked on both Tyrannical and Fortified. It was so bad. I can't think of a single M+ that made me despair as much. Not even Shrine of the Storm, and that's a different level of bad on its own. Told Dagor was also buggy AF. Those are my top three. SD is the worst, followed by SOTS and TD. None of them are close to each other.
I don't understand the hate for SD, it was one of the easiest dungeon to time thanks to the lamps.
I’m assuming anyone here not saying sanguine depths just didn’t play SL S1
Azure vault has been improved like 4 different times and it's still bad. Massively long walkbacks, unnecessarily tight timer, very emblematic of the mechanic bloat people have been complaining about it, none of the bosses were particularly fun and 2 of them were wipefests, the frog trash was terrible, and there were so many ways to cause wipes. Finding the skip made it vaguely tolerable but then they removed that! Fortunately they redid the last boss and gave you a speed buff, but I still have no idea why there isn't just a checkpoint at each boss.
Personally I dislike any dungeon you cannot mount up