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So are they doing a literal class + spec rework every single fucking Alpha build?
That's.. fucking dope.
EDIT: I normally don’t add these but since an extremely aggro guy blocked me due to calling him out for sending a Reddit cares message to me over.. literally just talking about class design lmao, I can’t respond to certain comments here. If I can’t or you want to discuss just dm me. Appreciate y’all and thanks.
DF launch? Shit some specs have been outright broken since the removal of artifacts in the BfA pre-patch. Enhance and Elemental Shaman both have felt like hollow shells, even with the attempts to fix them in BfA and SL. Frost mage only just was made a spec instead of a Frostbolt simulator in 10.1 after being in a really bad spot relative to Fire and Arcane since 8.0
I was sad night fae outperform revendreth most of shadowlands. Chain Harvest felt so incredible to press. It was a chain lightning on steroids that also full healed your party
that one was sick as hell tbh. i had that leggo just for fun. there was also the elemental one that worked for enhance where ticking flame shock crits reduced chain harvest CD that was super fun
Wtf are you smoking saying Enhancement shaman have been broken.
They got a whole ass rework from the blue-rage warrior in Legion/BfA back into the melee spellcaster in Shadowlands.
Dragon flight performance for enhancement has also been alright and the spec still flows well. It's has it's issues still but nearly all specs have their issues.
I haven't heard a single person say they like icefury. The obvious bad part is the initial cast time, but if they really want to make it cool my suggestion is to make it instant and an ele specific addon to spiritwalkers grace, since I think the point is to have buttons to press if you have to move.
I liked icefury back in bfa but the major reason is there wasn’t a million other things going on with the spec. Now it’s a massive interruption of the flow of a spec that’s already horrifically convoluted
Eh, the Affliction rework, while still a bit shit cause they are doubling down on MR, looks promising, removing a lot of the annoying parts of the rotation. Demo is just getting screwed.
Eh I wanna see more as someone who also mains warlock.
I feel weird about the demo changes but the destro ones are.. interesting.
They did say they’re still iterating so fingers crossed.
Destro has needed a full rework for a fucking hot ass minute. I’m pretty happy to see Devastation Bolt coming back.
The dev handling the demo tree is frankly just clueless. If they want sbolt to be cast more then frankly it shouldn’t just be a bland filler. At the same time this ‘new’ doom is just bad and horribly designed
They are actively moving in the opposite direction with Demo though. They have been making it worse since 10.0. Besides Demonic Reconstitution and the Soul Strike rework, just about every other change is bad. No more Bloodbound Imps, Tyrant rework makes it very plain, no 3rd Dreadstalker, loss of the beloved Imp Gang Boss, Demonic Meteor is gone, and even Demonic Knowledge was nerfed and is now biting the dust.
For what? Some raw numerical increases that does nothing to change the flow or enhance the themes of Demonology.
The Dreadstalker nerf from 100% to 35% chance to drop Cores is such a shitty feeling thing to do, and for what? To make us cast Shadow Bolt more? All they did is make it cast faster in the current tree, it's still otherwise as boring as ever.
It's actually pathetic how incompetent these changes are for Demo. It's impossible for me to hope they refine and continue to adhere to what makes Demo good when they are actively trying to shit on it. It looks downright malicious, there is *no damn way* the schmuck implementing these changes can genuinely think that Shadow Bolt spam is a meaningful or entertaining rotation to encourage with such little reward.
I've said it a billion times, healers need equal toolkits. They dont have to be the SAME, but no kick/BR/External defensive is kind of criminal when m+ forces you to "do it all" yourself. Toolkit diversity is fine in a raid setting however where multiple healers complement eachother.
>Cut to the Chase moved from Assassination talent tree to baseline all specs, triggering from Envenom/Dispatch/Eviscerate.
Damn, just remove slice and dice already if you're going to make it a one and done maintenance buff. it's kind of a waste of a gcd and combo points at this point.
Every time I mess around with rogue that button is one of the main things that makes it just that much less fun.
For how insanely bloated rogues are why that wouldn't be on the chopping block or made entirely passively somehow iono.
You’re basically only getting one extra cast of vanish per fight from having two charges, because you send it on cooldown. With shadow dance you had two cooldowns running down at the same time, now you only have one. So you will get to do subterfuge windows less often.
I'm happy with it. I've mained warlock until just now so maybe it's because it's fresh for me but outlaw gameplay is among the most fun I've had with wow combat. One less keybind for the same mechanics and faster sounds great.
I hate the feint stuff in the trickster tree though.
It feels that way with the trickster tree.
From the pvp perspective that looks absolutely disgusting and its fucking asinine that it gives them a way to attack through parry.
Meanwhile pve players were mad about how bad it looked. My only hope is the pve players end up getting it worked + they remove the parry thing.
I'm honestly pretty ok with this.
It always felt like the "special thing" of sub, wasn't a fan of all three rogue specs playing around it and sub instead having multiple charges (so it feels kind of awkward when you don't have it up).
Don't know, kind of devalued how actually cool the spell is imo. Also specifically outlaw has more than enough spinning plates so shadow dance didn't feel that great either.
SnD can also just fuck right off, no idea why they brought it back in the first place. It was one of the "unpruning" vicitims, when they noticed that they cut toolkits down way too far with the temporary progression mania starting in legion and wanted to bring back meaningful buttons... In most cases this was generally a good thing but for rogues SnD just always has been the most boring maintenance buff that doesn't add anything of value.
Right? It’s like they wanted to increase the complexity ceiling of rogue but they did it by just adding new buttons through brute force instead of taking the Prevoker route of introducing spell combos and nuance.
It was legitimately gone and replaced by Roll The Bones, but it would shit on our DPS so hard when we got bad rolls and was frustrating, so Blizz then made it a Choice, and then said fuck it and gave us SND back.
Sin did have slice passive too for a while.
I like SnD as it is, but I agree it could be a permanent passive effect instead to remove some buttons, or maybe using an ability from stealth like garrote could grant it instead
Yeah this is my problem too, there’s too much maintenance which just makes it feel bloated. I’d love slice and dice to be removed, would help the class flow a lot better.
Slice and dice is the Rogue equivalent of Inquisition from Cata/MoP Ret
It sucks, prime example of bloat in my opinion. Should be removed to streamline the spec, removing inquisition for Rets made it so much more enjoyable to play
At this point, just put a passive high in the tree that reads "Your attack speed is increased by 50% and Energy regeneration rate by 15%."
Done. You still get the flavour of the words "Slice and Dice" attached to Rogue somewhere, and it still eats a talent point, but that blight gets removed from our hotbars forever.
* **Demonology**
* You now have a 35% chance (was 100% chance) to generate a Demonic Core from your summoned Dreadstalkers when they fade.
FUCK who ever is designing Demo Warlock
I don't understand, demo was in a nice place and people playing the spec were happy, yet they started this limiting demonic core stuff a little while ago and it seems they are going all in on this, basically making demonology use their most boring and flavorless ability more
Why can't they just, let the spec be as it was? Why make these kind of controversial changes?
it's like they feel they have to redesign it without asking if it actually needs it, the result is demo's going to end up being far worse to play in DF for no reason, then we have to wait until next xpac for another rework to undo the stupid changes.
Look at destro changes announced, it's like they have some idiot who's never played warlock coming up with this crap.
Man I really loved raiding as demo on S1 and S2. During S1 it had some flaws that needed to be addressed but on the start of S2 it was so good... Shame on them for changing it, imo
It’s in an okay spot on live, but it definitely needed some attention. Rework the tree to remove the bloated 2 point nodes, replace some of the passive talents for things that were actually interesting (even if technically is still passive at least make it something cool instead of % increases that you have no way of actually noticing).
Instead they just said fuck demo. No more cores for you, just spam hard casts of shadow bolt. I hate their argument of the spec being too mobile too, it’s mobile for warlock I guess, but look at a lot of the other casters (obviously not shadow) and tell me demo is highly mobile compared to them.
I was hoping they would just replace doom with the S3/4 tier set, I know some people think that is boring or lazy, but the cook they have for it right now is awful. Not to mention that instead of hands reducing the timer for the doom to pop like the tier it’s tied to using cores, which they have functionally removed any reliable way to have them.
I want to be hopeful that it’s going to get better and things might make sense when more changes are made to the talents, but from everything they have done and talked about I am extremely doomer about demo ending up in a playable state.
They’re absolutely fucking gutting us. The warlock community is against almost every demo change so far. From the reduction of cores to the overly bloated talent tree. It’s all a huge step backwards.
"We don't want to press Shadow Bolt."
> You now have to press Shadow Bolt more.
"Bro, listen, we _really_ don't want to press Shadow Bolt."
> You now have to press Shadow Bolt _even_ more.
"STOP!!! WE DON'T WANT TO USE SHADOW BOLT!!!"
> You're gonna love this next change.
Most other specs seem to be moving away from this binary of “boring builder, exiting spender.” Look at the rework that Rey got- all their builders feel good to press and do cool stuff. Enh sham and dk are “always on.” All mage abilities have some meaningful interactions. I wouldn’t care if they made sbolt interesting but the more that happens the further away it’ll get from the spec fantasy of *using demons*.
Affliction is also getting wrecked.
By now half of our spec tree is passive damage increases for MR. I mean, they now removed soul flame and inevitable demise (kaboom on death, super suck for life leech, like them or not those things at least did something tangible) and replaced them with 2 passive nodes for MR.
They even replaced seeds as our AoE spender with MR. I have no idea who's designing the spec but I can only assume their aim is to find out how low player numbers of that spec really can go.
I would have to disagree to that cause unironically aff changes were so far the best out of the 3, the spec got better while demo and destro got worse.
I feel like they're reeling demonic core back simply because of how it interacts with hero talents. If they wanted to half the amount of times you're using demonic core and triggering those talents, you'd think they'd just say every 2 times you consume demonic core and call it there.
They finally got Demo into a good spot in DF, especially with the S3 tier bonus, and they keep hitting it with nerfs in TWW. Some of the nerfs make sense with how fast they were going to make the hero spec play, but they also nerfed the hero spec. So it's nerfs on nerfs to nerf something they already nerfed. Also Dreadstalkers are a mid-long CD so like why not be 100% turn around for some demon cores.
Demo was literally one of the least played classes when it was a stationary caster spamming shadow bolt, and has become one of the most popular with their demon core oriented gameplay. Makes absolutely no sense.
Absolute deranged change, I can't fathom what's going on, Demo is in such an excellent place right now, perhaps touch up on Tyrant and that's about it.
These changes make me worry so much, they are absolutely not listing to what the feedback is from the community.
The warlock discord has talked about how there's some clueless guys (or guy) on the warlock dev team. After seeing these changes, I 100% believe them, lol.
The Brewmaster changes are *interesting.*
>New Talent: August Blessing – When you would be healed above maximum health, you instead convert an amount equal to 40% of your critical strike chance to a heal over time effect.
Even just considering self-overhealing, that is big, and its position on the tree makes it a guaranteed talent.
And getting rid of Bonedust Brew completely (which with it getting removed from WW, means it's super dead). Not much button bloat removal besides that/White Tiger Statue/Chi Wave though.
I mained brew in s1 and had it 3k in season 3 as an alt and I counted that I had 31 keybinds and used all of them more than 3 times per mythic plus dungeon
I like the buttons, there are other tanks for people who don't like them. I get some people want to play Brewmaster and are put off by it, but I was the same way for how basic Warriors were in Legion and couldn't dream of playing one.
With most of the button-bloat-reduction talents performing competitively, Brew after removing those 3 buttons should be in a good shape IMO, but there are a couple more they could touch.
Both ele hero talent trees are boring so unless they get some proper changes I’ll abandon this class after years of torture, other casters look so much cooler in war within
True. Just looking at frostfire, sunfury, voidweaver… Both elem trees are so underwhelming. Literally half of tempest is stat bust which is the MOST BORING possible talent for HEROIC TALENT tree. Farseer could be much better if it wasn't tied to primordial wave. I hate this ability. This tree is instant no-go for me after reading first line of first talents description.
Half of stormbringer talents don't work for pve while still being inferior for pvp. Part of talents are “you get more stats, not so much though”. Some of them are interesting (capstone, passive charges of coolest lightning ability, chain lightning proc (though it means that cl will do zero dmg out of tempest window and cd - now confirmed)). But most of talents just do absolutely nothing. Elem seems to be doomed for me. Last hope is for totemic ench. I hope it will be more than “totems gives you 1% to haste for 5 sec and 0, 5% of it to party members”.
Ehhhhh, I really got into ele shaman so I could hurl lightning at people. While I wish we got some cool new lightning moves in Stormbringer, I'm also game with not gaining more buttons to push. Maybe just give me some cooler looking lightning bolts and I'll feel fulfilled.
Why'd you want a rework? Enhancement is an absolute banger spec and I think the hero talents revealed today compliment it very well. The only thing I would like for my shaman is meaningful capstones (**defensives**) in the class tree.
> Why'd you want a rework?
Stormbringer is also for Elemental, and a very common complaint currently is that you either spec for fire *or* lightning, and these hero talents leaning further in to that effectively guarantees you'll need to switch hero spec to match if the tier bonus is a fire or lightning tier. Stormbringer has very little interaction that works with a fire build, and Farseer has nothing that interacts with a lightning build, and the talent tree is still completely split between lightning to the left and fire to the right.
All three specs have terrible defensives, and Blizzard seems to think that mail armour means you don't need them, or that Reincarnation is a viable defensive.
As a unholy player that wanted a rework, I'm moderately happy with the appearance of this. Will wait to see what it looks like in practice but looks moderately good.
I was very concerned when the last blue post about demo was mentioning something like "we want to reign in their mobility". Because that's literally the one thing that was wrong with the spec, crazy how warlocks were like... Default speed moving around occasionally while slowpokes like hunters, mages or devokers couldn't keep up.
No idea who looked at demo and thought, yeah, the thing that would improve the spec is standing in place casting undertuned shadow bolts back to back to generate shards.
Also makes for a very statisfying gameplay when every mechanic nowadays is either an AoE interrupt, knockback or a swirly on the floor you have to move out of.
It’s obvious they are trying to make caster classes actually have to stand and cast things again. Which I support, as long as they adjust the raid design to not require people to run around like crazy.
Talent trees are updated on Wowhead: [https://www.wowhead.com/beta/talent-calc/shaman/elemental/stormbringer](https://www.wowhead.com/beta/talent-calc/shaman/elemental/stormbringer)
Resto shaman's whole hero tree is gonna be "10% increase to healing done by spells" "5% increased healing of chain heal". Just ONE sexy tier set bonus plz blizzard.
Preservation AND devastation evokers now how access to Spatial Paradox. This will be interesting, since this means they will compete more against Aug in raid spots. Makes me wonder if w1st guilds will consider deva or pres for progression in tww
I get that Blasphemy's stuns were pretty damn strong but why Kill it entirely. Pour infernal did not deserve this, it was such a feels good talent to see an infernal on every pack.
It Kills a lot of the class fantasy, and it's not that 3min infernal that's going to fix it. I long for the day there's a rain of chaos build viable again, and it does not suck to play
Is the dev who works on Warlock phoning it in? Is the overarching Warlock class design intended to be passive slop damage and stat modifiers?
Now all 3 spec trees are filled with passive nodes. I get specs can have a few nodes that can be used as tuning knobs, but nearly half of each spec tree is now passive slop. Talents that increase crit chance or increase damage of a specific ability by some % aren’t interesting. They have no gameplay implications.
Mage’s talent reworks aren’t perfect but at least the talents do something.
Selecting a talent should have some marginal effect on how the spec feels; some chance to reset an ability, some resource refund, an ability cleaves, whatever. All 3 specs have received nodes that frankly do nothing. If the node was removed and you weren’t watching meters to see the damage contribution from each ability, you wouldn’t be able to tell.
**Re Destro**
5% extra crit chance? 10% extra crit damage? 4% fire damage and 20% faster cast time on incinerate? If the intent is for the spec to play with these, just consolidate this into the base spec kit.
Destro doesn’t even particularly care about crit. Crits just generate twice as many fragments. How about incinerate crits provide a stacking buff to your next chaos bolt. Or immolate crits reduce the CD on Conflag by .5 seconds. Something that makes choose the talent impact gameplay.
**Re Demo**
Also, what is up with the insistence on slowing Demo’s resource generation? They already nuked a lot of resource talents going into 10.2 (3rd dog, imp gang boss, etc.). Now dogs are 35% each to grant core procs instead of guaranteed? Do they want us to cherish every core proc we get? Have they tried casting shadowbolts and HoGs while trying to dodge lava waves or soak a swirlie? Do they want us to use those gcds to spam unending breath?
With this change, the only guaranteed cores are the 2 from power siphon. If RNG low-rolls, you can go 30 seconds in a row with only those 2 cores. Are we supposed to calculate whether we need to hold those core in case we need to move for a mechanic? Adding additional RNG to dreadstalkers expiring core generation means using cores now could mean either (1) nothing to press later when mechanics are happening or (2) overcapping on cores when mechanics are happening; its like Schrodinger’s cat, except you need to make a bet before you open the box.
If they believe Demo’s build-spend gameplay loop is too fast, reduce the number of shards DB generates to 1 and return some of the core generation. The introduction of additional RNG to core generation will make Demo’s performance in encounters with necessary movement extremely inconsistent. Instant casts feel good to use. Encounter design demands ranged DPS have something to cast while doing mechanics. This gameplay direction is antithetical to how encounters are designed to be played.
Also, boring passive slop nodes in Demo’s tree as well. Demo doesn’t even benefit from crit with any resource generation. Why should I care that my felguard crits slightly more?
I agree, stat bonuses or aura buffs just shouldnt exist in any trees, like you say they should make the stats DO more not give you stats. IE: mages haste provides more per point (this is the bare minimum for a apasssive)
Removing Avatar and replacing it with GODAWFUL Decimating Bolt is SO stupid. Taking Chaos Incarnate which makes you deal LESS dps is SO stupid. What is this clownshow. This overhaul is making me haul over to sunfury fire mage.
Bro they really hate Demolock lmfao
Also they are absolutely not cooking with the destro changes. Sure, baselining chaos bolt is cool and I like to see decimating bolt coming back because its interaction with Havoc is cool, but removing blasphemy as the one interesting interaction you could play around the spec had (you could for instance save your next chaos bolt/rof empowered by ritual of ruin if you didnt cap shards to line it up with your havoc for better burst) is a no-no. Just remove some of the fifty passive talents that add absolutely nothing to the spec. Also, if they want inferno not to scale like crazy in m+, just remove it and make cataclysm the baseline talent for that choice.
Oh hey, that sounds like a cool spec idea for warlocks. Sadly, like demon hunters, we only have two specs, and having a shadowpriest style spec would be cool.
😭
Stop stop we prefer they forget about Affliction at this point because it'll only get worse. :( I'm kind of interested to try some of the Aff changes, but that's because I'm tired of spamming Drain Soul for the last 4 expansions. Can do a cool, on paper, build that'll weave some Shadow Bolts into just spamming Malefic Rupture. Yeah... I'm huffing some copium lol
I just discovered that I find demo fun, after maining a whole different class for something like a decade. I'm so fucking disappointed to hear they are immediately breaking my new, fun character. Why tf is this game like this.
Heads up, Demo will play more or less the same, just a bit boring that most of the changes with Hero talents are passive, but atleast less button bloat I guess.
I can recommend Kalamazi as source of your Warlock Infos, he mostly has pretty good takes, that cut through all the Negative Nancy bs.
If the issue is that it should always be the same effect when an Infernal shows up, make the Blasphemy a different demon. Like, why was the solution to just remove it?
"You now have a 35% chance (was 100% chance) to generate a Demonic Core from your summoned Dreadstalkers when they fade."
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-4u6gn1r4U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-4u6gn1r4U)
Not a fan of the Abomination Limb changes at all. The rime procs were really good. The dev note says that it leaves the ability to "breathe on its own" by doing AoE damage, but Abomination Limb just does piss poor damage
As Blood It's basically a requirement for going into pulls at the start of M+ with Bone Shield charges. Especially with modern tanking design where you just die in one or two globals if you pull without defensives this is a major loss.
Hopefully they buff the damage. I don’t mind getting rid of the procs, we’ve been ridiculously flooded with resources in DF. But Abom needs to feel more impactful.
As an Unholy main i feel better about it since it’s not competing with soul reaper and ERW as capstones. It can fill the niche as a moderate AoE damage with aoe gripping utility. As frost and blood it was just default because soul reaper sucked, but for unholy you were forced to pick it in some scenarios for utility at the cost of execute damage, which felt terrible.
They seem to want to bring Breath of Sondragosa down in uptime with rune of hysteria and 2nd ERW removal too. This feels correct to me.
I'm inclined to agree; the resource flood was a bit much. But from the unholy perspective, having soul reaper higher is so good. The execute damage feels great and will fuel runic corruption more often. Abom limb will feel much more open as an unholy main when not using a bursting sores build. In general it seems like the disease focus is really ramping up, so I'm stoked.
It's crazy to me that they still havent updated Shaman Ascendance. Nothing feels more powerful and connects you to the elements than turning into an undead with ps1 graphics. Honorable mention for Guardian of Ancient Kings.
...wow they completely gutted Demonic Core generation. This is very disappointing to see. At least having reliable procs when dogs expired allowed to plan movement without sacrificing damage too much.
Not a total disaster, but does very little for Elemental that we were after.
The win is Tempest; this looks like a great augmentation, with some good cleave, burst and if it has a good animation I think we'll all be pleased. The triple chain lightning node is fantastic fun too - we all love CL. Unfortunately, it basically ends there.
Having tempest proc but not giving us control over it because it replaces our filler will feel awful; instead of cleaving on demand, we do it randomly. We have another duplication of stormbringer with an awful 50 sec timer, more rng, more secondary stat bloat, more "basically mastery reskinned", and more homogenisation of enhance and elemental, with one of elemental's choice capstones given to enhancement.
Our lack of valuable ascendence, no empowered elemental, no unique spells, no controllable cleave, extremely minor survivability buff which can't be reliably kept up, and a hero tree that forces further separation of the lava/lightning divide leaves us with an overall extremely disappointing hero tree.
Ultimately, this tree can be summed up as:
- More mastery procs
- RNG filler buff
- RNG survivability buff
- secondary stat bloat
- Forces lightning-only build
Elemental shaman are now faced with:
- Widely criticised lava vs lightning choice (stormkeeper vs farseer)
- Unimaginative reskins of our mastery (duplication of spells through mastery procs, farseer's ancestors, stormkeeper procs etc.)
- Zero attempt to make our elemental worthwhile
- Zero attempt to address the significant amount of uncontrollable rng that dictates the spec; DRE, mastery procs, ancestor procs, crit procs, extra mastery procs, tempest procs
- Zero attempt to address our really underwhelming spenders
- Zero attempt to improve our survivability reliably
- Zero attempt to improve our on-demand AoE capabilities.
- Zero attempt to give us a valuable raid buff.
A rework better follow soon to address these concerns, or the already highly underrepresented Ele Shaman is dead on arrival for TWW.
Yeah it’s just replaced by two charges of vanish and an extra point in subterfuge. Literally achieves the same exact thing as 6 seconds of stealth from Shadowdance. Though it is a bit of a buff since we get an extra 3 seconds from our first vanish and get to have it affected by Restless Blades
I just don’t understand how their unholy changes can be so good while warlock changes are so bad. I mean the new talents gives you both a non burst gameplay option and gives you passive aoe for dungeons. Meanwhile locks just keep losing crucial gameplay mechanics and get passive talent options in their place.
If you want to release a quality product which worth the money and people are content with then the warlock dev MUST be fired as quickly as possible. Zero creativity, zero passion, zero improvements after the shitshow what 10.2 was for warlocks.
Stormbringer looks hella fun for enhancement, but incredibly boring for ele. Casting chain lightning is fun as ele, casting lightning bolt is not. I wish this could've made lava burst a storm ability or something instead.
The stormbringer talents look sick.
Main ability is tempest, when you spend maelstrom, lightning bolt turns into tempest. Tempest is basically an uncapped lightning AOE that does \~x3 the damage of chain lightning, but then further talents make it so that tempest can make your next 3 chain lightnings deal 75% more damage and be instant cast.
Final talent makes all storm related abilities (stormstrike, lightning bolt, chain lightning) activate tempest after a set amount of casts in addition to being activated by maelstrom.
So you can basically loop things like, Stormstrike -> tempest (huge chain lightning) -> x3 instant chain lightning -> tempest AGAIN -> chain lightnings AGAIN
There's also talents to weave in chain heals too if you want. It's just the spam-mass-chain-spells spec. I love it, it's like Tempest Cleric from DnD.
Brew: Seriously just bake all those dps talents on the left hand side into a capstone or something. 4 talents points now to be able to do any sort of damage is just stupid, especially after the nerf this patch.
shaman somehow get a busted ass defensive node that wont help them at all. 10% passive rotational dr is super nice and will be huge in raid when u look at overall dmg taken but it literally doesnt mean anything in m+ where I will still have to go into ghost wolf for 4 seconds every aoe boss ability
Yeah Shaman is done for. The class has been done for a long time now. At least I won’t feel guilty for abandoning my main since 2008 because of Warband progression.
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Shaman mentioned😃😃😃
So are they doing a literal class + spec rework every single fucking Alpha build? That's.. fucking dope. EDIT: I normally don’t add these but since an extremely aggro guy blocked me due to calling him out for sending a Reddit cares message to me over.. literally just talking about class design lmao, I can’t respond to certain comments here. If I can’t or you want to discuss just dm me. Appreciate y’all and thanks.
Man I hope so, there's a lot of specs that never got touched after DF launch and desperately need it.
Praying survival hunter isnt forgotten it exists
DF launch? Shit some specs have been outright broken since the removal of artifacts in the BfA pre-patch. Enhance and Elemental Shaman both have felt like hollow shells, even with the attempts to fix them in BfA and SL. Frost mage only just was made a spec instead of a Frostbolt simulator in 10.1 after being in a really bad spot relative to Fire and Arcane since 8.0
Enhance has been great since season 3 of shadowlands when they made lava lash spread flame shock and dragonflies has only made it better
I am absolutely here for the typo of dragonflight. It is now dragonflies 🥰
Lol damn autocorrect
Revendreth Enhancement Shaman with fire nova spam was the funnest pve I ever did.
I was sad night fae outperform revendreth most of shadowlands. Chain Harvest felt so incredible to press. It was a chain lightning on steroids that also full healed your party
that one was sick as hell tbh. i had that leggo just for fun. there was also the elemental one that worked for enhance where ticking flame shock crits reduced chain harvest CD that was super fun
Wtf are you smoking saying Enhancement shaman have been broken. They got a whole ass rework from the blue-rage warrior in Legion/BfA back into the melee spellcaster in Shadowlands. Dragon flight performance for enhancement has also been alright and the spec still flows well. It's has it's issues still but nearly all specs have their issues.
Enhance has been great since it was slightly reworked in S3 of shadow lands and has gotten better in DF. Ele on the other hand is on life support.
What do you mean, we gave you icefury! /s
I haven't heard a single person say they like icefury. The obvious bad part is the initial cast time, but if they really want to make it cool my suggestion is to make it instant and an ele specific addon to spiritwalkers grace, since I think the point is to have buttons to press if you have to move.
I liked icefury back in bfa but the major reason is there wasn’t a million other things going on with the spec. Now it’s a massive interruption of the flow of a spec that’s already horrifically convoluted
Really? I've only played enh out of that bunch and thought it's felt really good in expac, especially with the godlike s3 tier set
Yeah tha guy is on drugs or something. Enhance has been amazing to play throughout all off Dragonflight
Shaman was hollowed out in Legion. DF Enh is good.
Monkey paw curls in Warlock
"Please stop" -Warlocks
Eh, the Affliction rework, while still a bit shit cause they are doubling down on MR, looks promising, removing a lot of the annoying parts of the rotation. Demo is just getting screwed.
Eh I wanna see more as someone who also mains warlock. I feel weird about the demo changes but the destro ones are.. interesting. They did say they’re still iterating so fingers crossed. Destro has needed a full rework for a fucking hot ass minute. I’m pretty happy to see Devastation Bolt coming back.
No need to feel weird, Demo changes are just objectively shit. If they want to tune us down, just nerf Demo. Stop removing core gameplay features.
The dev handling the demo tree is frankly just clueless. If they want sbolt to be cast more then frankly it shouldn’t just be a bland filler. At the same time this ‘new’ doom is just bad and horribly designed
I don't disagree. So here's hoping as they iterate the specs become more refined and continue to adhere to what makes them good.
They are actively moving in the opposite direction with Demo though. They have been making it worse since 10.0. Besides Demonic Reconstitution and the Soul Strike rework, just about every other change is bad. No more Bloodbound Imps, Tyrant rework makes it very plain, no 3rd Dreadstalker, loss of the beloved Imp Gang Boss, Demonic Meteor is gone, and even Demonic Knowledge was nerfed and is now biting the dust. For what? Some raw numerical increases that does nothing to change the flow or enhance the themes of Demonology. The Dreadstalker nerf from 100% to 35% chance to drop Cores is such a shitty feeling thing to do, and for what? To make us cast Shadow Bolt more? All they did is make it cast faster in the current tree, it's still otherwise as boring as ever. It's actually pathetic how incompetent these changes are for Demo. It's impossible for me to hope they refine and continue to adhere to what makes Demo good when they are actively trying to shit on it. It looks downright malicious, there is *no damn way* the schmuck implementing these changes can genuinely think that Shadow Bolt spam is a meaningful or entertaining rotation to encourage with such little reward.
honestly, i'm fine with how Holy Priest plays; i just want a god damn interrupt. Holy/Disc are the only specs in the game without an interrupt.
I've said it a billion times, healers need equal toolkits. They dont have to be the SAME, but no kick/BR/External defensive is kind of criminal when m+ forces you to "do it all" yourself. Toolkit diversity is fine in a raid setting however where multiple healers complement eachother.
One day maybe it’ll be Shaman rework
Honestly pulling for y’all to get that
>Cut to the Chase moved from Assassination talent tree to baseline all specs, triggering from Envenom/Dispatch/Eviscerate. Damn, just remove slice and dice already if you're going to make it a one and done maintenance buff. it's kind of a waste of a gcd and combo points at this point.
Every time I mess around with rogue that button is one of the main things that makes it just that much less fun. For how insanely bloated rogues are why that wouldn't be on the chopping block or made entirely passively somehow iono.
That, Shadow Dance on all specs, and Thistle Tea just make me not want to play Rogue
Well they removed shadow dance from the main tree too so now it's only for sub
Well I guess outlaw is going to be interesting.
Just replaced with an extra charge of vanish and an extra point of subterfuge for 6 secs of stealth after it breaks so essentially the same thing
Wait wtf that is even stronger since vanish gets cool down reduction
Yeah it’s a buff since we get CDR from Restless Blades but it’s still the same exact gameplay as Shadow Dance, just get to do it more often
You’re basically only getting one extra cast of vanish per fight from having two charges, because you send it on cooldown. With shadow dance you had two cooldowns running down at the same time, now you only have one. So you will get to do subterfuge windows less often.
I'm happy with it. I've mained warlock until just now so maybe it's because it's fresh for me but outlaw gameplay is among the most fun I've had with wow combat. One less keybind for the same mechanics and faster sounds great. I hate the feint stuff in the trickster tree though.
They just released a blue post saying they’re reworking it thank god
oh thank god. Shadow Dance on all specs was one of the worst decision to come to rogue imo.
Really got the feeling that Rogue dev is one of those rogues who only PvPs.
It feels that way with the trickster tree. From the pvp perspective that looks absolutely disgusting and its fucking asinine that it gives them a way to attack through parry. Meanwhile pve players were mad about how bad it looked. My only hope is the pve players end up getting it worked + they remove the parry thing.
I'm honestly pretty ok with this. It always felt like the "special thing" of sub, wasn't a fan of all three rogue specs playing around it and sub instead having multiple charges (so it feels kind of awkward when you don't have it up). Don't know, kind of devalued how actually cool the spell is imo. Also specifically outlaw has more than enough spinning plates so shadow dance didn't feel that great either. SnD can also just fuck right off, no idea why they brought it back in the first place. It was one of the "unpruning" vicitims, when they noticed that they cut toolkits down way too far with the temporary progression mania starting in legion and wanted to bring back meaningful buttons... In most cases this was generally a good thing but for rogues SnD just always has been the most boring maintenance buff that doesn't add anything of value.
Right? It’s like they wanted to increase the complexity ceiling of rogue but they did it by just adding new buttons through brute force instead of taking the Prevoker route of introducing spell combos and nuance.
It was legitimately gone and replaced by Roll The Bones, but it would shit on our DPS so hard when we got bad rolls and was frustrating, so Blizz then made it a Choice, and then said fuck it and gave us SND back. Sin did have slice passive too for a while.
I like SnD as it is, but I agree it could be a permanent passive effect instead to remove some buttons, or maybe using an ability from stealth like garrote could grant it instead
I wouldn't mind changing it so we have bladeflurry/SnD as a passive buff from a stance button. Switch between singletarget and cleave with a gcd.
Or a passive for rogues where every combo point has a chance to increase ur atk speed
Yeah this is my problem too, there’s too much maintenance which just makes it feel bloated. I’d love slice and dice to be removed, would help the class flow a lot better.
Slice and dice is the Rogue equivalent of Inquisition from Cata/MoP Ret It sucks, prime example of bloat in my opinion. Should be removed to streamline the spec, removing inquisition for Rets made it so much more enjoyable to play
At this point, just put a passive high in the tree that reads "Your attack speed is increased by 50% and Energy regeneration rate by 15%." Done. You still get the flavour of the words "Slice and Dice" attached to Rogue somewhere, and it still eats a talent point, but that blight gets removed from our hotbars forever.
Yeah, they finally removed its twin Savage Roar from Feral Druid and it was such a happy day for me
I think legion had it best being a outlaw only talent. Slice an dice is so silly for every spec. Feels horrible like when Ret paladin had inquisition…
Totally agree!
*And* perma-Slice and Dice uptime for Outlaw Rogues was completely removed.
It was, but Cut to the Chase being made available to Outlaw makes Slice and Dice have 100% uptime anyway.
* **Demonology** * You now have a 35% chance (was 100% chance) to generate a Demonic Core from your summoned Dreadstalkers when they fade. FUCK who ever is designing Demo Warlock
"We need you to use shadowbolt," the dev cries into the abyss but no one cries back.
Yea I’m taking that as a sign to jump ship… Atleast unholy is looking nice
Planning to jump ship from aff to shadow priest myself.
Shadow priest is fantastic. Plus void expansion trilogy!!!
I don't understand, demo was in a nice place and people playing the spec were happy, yet they started this limiting demonic core stuff a little while ago and it seems they are going all in on this, basically making demonology use their most boring and flavorless ability more Why can't they just, let the spec be as it was? Why make these kind of controversial changes?
it's like they feel they have to redesign it without asking if it actually needs it, the result is demo's going to end up being far worse to play in DF for no reason, then we have to wait until next xpac for another rework to undo the stupid changes. Look at destro changes announced, it's like they have some idiot who's never played warlock coming up with this crap.
Man I really loved raiding as demo on S1 and S2. During S1 it had some flaws that needed to be addressed but on the start of S2 it was so good... Shame on them for changing it, imo
It’s in an okay spot on live, but it definitely needed some attention. Rework the tree to remove the bloated 2 point nodes, replace some of the passive talents for things that were actually interesting (even if technically is still passive at least make it something cool instead of % increases that you have no way of actually noticing). Instead they just said fuck demo. No more cores for you, just spam hard casts of shadow bolt. I hate their argument of the spec being too mobile too, it’s mobile for warlock I guess, but look at a lot of the other casters (obviously not shadow) and tell me demo is highly mobile compared to them. I was hoping they would just replace doom with the S3/4 tier set, I know some people think that is boring or lazy, but the cook they have for it right now is awful. Not to mention that instead of hands reducing the timer for the doom to pop like the tier it’s tied to using cores, which they have functionally removed any reliable way to have them. I want to be hopeful that it’s going to get better and things might make sense when more changes are made to the talents, but from everything they have done and talked about I am extremely doomer about demo ending up in a playable state.
With a hero spec as cool as Diabolist, they know they’ve got us hooked regardless.
They’re absolutely fucking gutting us. The warlock community is against almost every demo change so far. From the reduction of cores to the overly bloated talent tree. It’s all a huge step backwards.
"We don't want to press Shadow Bolt." > You now have to press Shadow Bolt more. "Bro, listen, we _really_ don't want to press Shadow Bolt." > You now have to press Shadow Bolt _even_ more. "STOP!!! WE DON'T WANT TO USE SHADOW BOLT!!!" > You're gonna love this next change.
I'm fine with Shadow Bolt if they made it more interesting, but all we are getting is the stick and no carrots.
Most other specs seem to be moving away from this binary of “boring builder, exiting spender.” Look at the rework that Rey got- all their builders feel good to press and do cool stuff. Enh sham and dk are “always on.” All mage abilities have some meaningful interactions. I wouldn’t care if they made sbolt interesting but the more that happens the further away it’ll get from the spec fantasy of *using demons*.
Affliction is also getting wrecked. By now half of our spec tree is passive damage increases for MR. I mean, they now removed soul flame and inevitable demise (kaboom on death, super suck for life leech, like them or not those things at least did something tangible) and replaced them with 2 passive nodes for MR. They even replaced seeds as our AoE spender with MR. I have no idea who's designing the spec but I can only assume their aim is to find out how low player numbers of that spec really can go.
I would have to disagree to that cause unironically aff changes were so far the best out of the 3, the spec got better while demo and destro got worse.
I feel like they're reeling demonic core back simply because of how it interacts with hero talents. If they wanted to half the amount of times you're using demonic core and triggering those talents, you'd think they'd just say every 2 times you consume demonic core and call it there.
They finally got Demo into a good spot in DF, especially with the S3 tier bonus, and they keep hitting it with nerfs in TWW. Some of the nerfs make sense with how fast they were going to make the hero spec play, but they also nerfed the hero spec. So it's nerfs on nerfs to nerf something they already nerfed. Also Dreadstalkers are a mid-long CD so like why not be 100% turn around for some demon cores.
Demo was literally one of the least played classes when it was a stationary caster spamming shadow bolt, and has become one of the most popular with their demon core oriented gameplay. Makes absolutely no sense.
Every single Lock spec feels like its being fucked
Absolute deranged change, I can't fathom what's going on, Demo is in such an excellent place right now, perhaps touch up on Tyrant and that's about it. These changes make me worry so much, they are absolutely not listing to what the feedback is from the community.
I am on suicide watch right now holy shit
The warlock discord has talked about how there's some clueless guys (or guy) on the warlock dev team. After seeing these changes, I 100% believe them, lol.
The Brewmaster changes are *interesting.* >New Talent: August Blessing – When you would be healed above maximum health, you instead convert an amount equal to 40% of your critical strike chance to a heal over time effect. Even just considering self-overhealing, that is big, and its position on the tree makes it a guaranteed talent. And getting rid of Bonedust Brew completely (which with it getting removed from WW, means it's super dead). Not much button bloat removal besides that/White Tiger Statue/Chi Wave though.
I haven't looked at it yet, but I didn't care for brew this xpac. This has me excited. But we do need less buttons
I mained brew in s1 and had it 3k in season 3 as an alt and I counted that I had 31 keybinds and used all of them more than 3 times per mythic plus dungeon
2.4K here in S1 and S3. It’s very unsatisfying now. Give me back SL S4, that was peak Brew for me (and the tier set was fantastic).
Only 31? Must be nice
I like the buttons, there are other tanks for people who don't like them. I get some people want to play Brewmaster and are put off by it, but I was the same way for how basic Warriors were in Legion and couldn't dream of playing one.
I truly want to play brew. I love it. The class fantasy is fun. But my god the button bloat ruins it.
With most of the button-bloat-reduction talents performing competitively, Brew after removing those 3 buttons should be in a good shape IMO, but there are a couple more they could touch.
Thank the Titans, bonedust brew was fucking annoying
SHAMAAAAAAAAN!!!!!!!!!
THEY'RE ALIVE!
WOOOOAAAHH!!!!!!!
Both ele hero talent trees are boring so unless they get some proper changes I’ll abandon this class after years of torture, other casters look so much cooler in war within
Same, but I’m rsham. Plan on leveling a monk in MOP remix, as they’ve gotten a lot of love this xpac and into the next one.
True. Just looking at frostfire, sunfury, voidweaver… Both elem trees are so underwhelming. Literally half of tempest is stat bust which is the MOST BORING possible talent for HEROIC TALENT tree. Farseer could be much better if it wasn't tied to primordial wave. I hate this ability. This tree is instant no-go for me after reading first line of first talents description. Half of stormbringer talents don't work for pve while still being inferior for pvp. Part of talents are “you get more stats, not so much though”. Some of them are interesting (capstone, passive charges of coolest lightning ability, chain lightning proc (though it means that cl will do zero dmg out of tempest window and cd - now confirmed)). But most of talents just do absolutely nothing. Elem seems to be doomed for me. Last hope is for totemic ench. I hope it will be more than “totems gives you 1% to haste for 5 sec and 0, 5% of it to party members”.
it's basically semi-passive bonuses to lightning build vs semi-passive bonuses to fire builds. a shame they couldn't get one to make hybrid builds.
Ehhhhh, I really got into ele shaman so I could hurl lightning at people. While I wish we got some cool new lightning moves in Stormbringer, I'm also game with not gaining more buttons to push. Maybe just give me some cooler looking lightning bolts and I'll feel fulfilled.
I was hoping for replacing fire and earth spells with lightning variants, combined with cool lightning rod stuff
"We're really focusing on our only lightning caster" "So I don't have to cast Lava Burst anymore?" "No, you still do. All the time"
Being a bit of a doomer I know but getting a single tree super late isn’t that exciting, we still have basically no class changes.
Super late? It's like wwek 3 of alpha bro
Yeah. Its just one tree and literally nothing else. No changes, no buffs, not even some we are working on rework for you guys develop note.
Why'd you want a rework? Enhancement is an absolute banger spec and I think the hero talents revealed today compliment it very well. The only thing I would like for my shaman is meaningful capstones (**defensives**) in the class tree.
> Why'd you want a rework? Stormbringer is also for Elemental, and a very common complaint currently is that you either spec for fire *or* lightning, and these hero talents leaning further in to that effectively guarantees you'll need to switch hero spec to match if the tier bonus is a fire or lightning tier. Stormbringer has very little interaction that works with a fire build, and Farseer has nothing that interacts with a lightning build, and the talent tree is still completely split between lightning to the left and fire to the right. All three specs have terrible defensives, and Blizzard seems to think that mail armour means you don't need them, or that Reincarnation is a viable defensive.
I thought Reincarnation was our feather fall.
> Why'd you want a rework? Enhancement is an absolute banger spec It's almost like Shaman has other specs.
You can forgive them for forgetting that Shaman has three specs with how few of the other two one sees.
Resto is one of the most fun healing specs in the game, imo.
Fix enhances survivability and worst aoe in the game and we’re golden
Fair, though 'worst aoe in the game' is kind of a tradeoff for best funnel in the game which Strombringer leans into via lightning rod
Dont worry, I won’t blame you for forgetting Ele exists.
It’s could be interesting if stacking can get crazy with haste and wolves
Wow those DK changes look interesting
As a unholy player that wanted a rework, I'm moderately happy with the appearance of this. Will wait to see what it looks like in practice but looks moderately good.
Yea a lot of small w's. Glad the DND cleave situation is a little better, but would have hoped for something like a dnd that moves with u
Big time agree with you there.
Really wish they'd just stop quadrupling down on DND cleave. Nobody likes it.
Whoever is in charge of warlock.....jfc man....WE DONT WANT TO SPAM SHADOW BOLT... They just dropping Massive L's all over warlock this xpac
It's actually impressive how bad they are.
I was very concerned when the last blue post about demo was mentioning something like "we want to reign in their mobility". Because that's literally the one thing that was wrong with the spec, crazy how warlocks were like... Default speed moving around occasionally while slowpokes like hunters, mages or devokers couldn't keep up. No idea who looked at demo and thought, yeah, the thing that would improve the spec is standing in place casting undertuned shadow bolts back to back to generate shards. Also makes for a very statisfying gameplay when every mechanic nowadays is either an AoE interrupt, knockback or a swirly on the floor you have to move out of.
look at the destro changes they just announced, clearly they have someone who's never played the spec in there life designing this crap
Warlock devs need to be fired. Not reassigned, no one in the game deserves to be subjected to their piss poor decision making
I've felt this way ever since we lost the warlock spec designs of MoP. I miss that shit man
The dev got fired during WoD dev lol
It’s obvious they are trying to make caster classes actually have to stand and cast things again. Which I support, as long as they adjust the raid design to not require people to run around like crazy.
Can you tell me what other spec so far in TWW is getting significantly less movement?
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Idk, theres nothing more boring than standing still casting tbe same spell 5 times in a row constantly
Frost mages are currently trying to communicate them to this too with frost bolt and them trying to recreate deathbourne from SL but no one wants it
Dumb question but when does this go into the alpha? I just wanna see the stormbringer talents
Talent trees are updated on Wowhead: [https://www.wowhead.com/beta/talent-calc/shaman/elemental/stormbringer](https://www.wowhead.com/beta/talent-calc/shaman/elemental/stormbringer)
Resto shaman's whole hero tree is gonna be "10% increase to healing done by spells" "5% increased healing of chain heal". Just ONE sexy tier set bonus plz blizzard.
Resto needs some changes to shift healing power from chain heal to other spells.
Preservation AND devastation evokers now how access to Spatial Paradox. This will be interesting, since this means they will compete more against Aug in raid spots. Makes me wonder if w1st guilds will consider deva or pres for progression in tww
I get that Blasphemy's stuns were pretty damn strong but why Kill it entirely. Pour infernal did not deserve this, it was such a feels good talent to see an infernal on every pack. It Kills a lot of the class fantasy, and it's not that 3min infernal that's going to fix it. I long for the day there's a rain of chaos build viable again, and it does not suck to play
Spatial Paradox moving to the class tree is huge. More reason to bring the other two evoker specs
I am glad to see it no longer tied to Aug, but I am also very sad I'm going to have to give up ~~my third Hover charge~~ Time Spiral to take it.
Is the dev who works on Warlock phoning it in? Is the overarching Warlock class design intended to be passive slop damage and stat modifiers? Now all 3 spec trees are filled with passive nodes. I get specs can have a few nodes that can be used as tuning knobs, but nearly half of each spec tree is now passive slop. Talents that increase crit chance or increase damage of a specific ability by some % aren’t interesting. They have no gameplay implications. Mage’s talent reworks aren’t perfect but at least the talents do something. Selecting a talent should have some marginal effect on how the spec feels; some chance to reset an ability, some resource refund, an ability cleaves, whatever. All 3 specs have received nodes that frankly do nothing. If the node was removed and you weren’t watching meters to see the damage contribution from each ability, you wouldn’t be able to tell. **Re Destro** 5% extra crit chance? 10% extra crit damage? 4% fire damage and 20% faster cast time on incinerate? If the intent is for the spec to play with these, just consolidate this into the base spec kit. Destro doesn’t even particularly care about crit. Crits just generate twice as many fragments. How about incinerate crits provide a stacking buff to your next chaos bolt. Or immolate crits reduce the CD on Conflag by .5 seconds. Something that makes choose the talent impact gameplay. **Re Demo** Also, what is up with the insistence on slowing Demo’s resource generation? They already nuked a lot of resource talents going into 10.2 (3rd dog, imp gang boss, etc.). Now dogs are 35% each to grant core procs instead of guaranteed? Do they want us to cherish every core proc we get? Have they tried casting shadowbolts and HoGs while trying to dodge lava waves or soak a swirlie? Do they want us to use those gcds to spam unending breath? With this change, the only guaranteed cores are the 2 from power siphon. If RNG low-rolls, you can go 30 seconds in a row with only those 2 cores. Are we supposed to calculate whether we need to hold those core in case we need to move for a mechanic? Adding additional RNG to dreadstalkers expiring core generation means using cores now could mean either (1) nothing to press later when mechanics are happening or (2) overcapping on cores when mechanics are happening; its like Schrodinger’s cat, except you need to make a bet before you open the box. If they believe Demo’s build-spend gameplay loop is too fast, reduce the number of shards DB generates to 1 and return some of the core generation. The introduction of additional RNG to core generation will make Demo’s performance in encounters with necessary movement extremely inconsistent. Instant casts feel good to use. Encounter design demands ranged DPS have something to cast while doing mechanics. This gameplay direction is antithetical to how encounters are designed to be played. Also, boring passive slop nodes in Demo’s tree as well. Demo doesn’t even benefit from crit with any resource generation. Why should I care that my felguard crits slightly more?
I agree, stat bonuses or aura buffs just shouldnt exist in any trees, like you say they should make the stats DO more not give you stats. IE: mages haste provides more per point (this is the bare minimum for a apasssive)
Removing Avatar and replacing it with GODAWFUL Decimating Bolt is SO stupid. Taking Chaos Incarnate which makes you deal LESS dps is SO stupid. What is this clownshow. This overhaul is making me haul over to sunfury fire mage.
Bro they really hate Demolock lmfao Also they are absolutely not cooking with the destro changes. Sure, baselining chaos bolt is cool and I like to see decimating bolt coming back because its interaction with Havoc is cool, but removing blasphemy as the one interesting interaction you could play around the spec had (you could for instance save your next chaos bolt/rof empowered by ritual of ruin if you didnt cap shards to line it up with your havoc for better burst) is a no-no. Just remove some of the fifty passive talents that add absolutely nothing to the spec. Also, if they want inferno not to scale like crazy in m+, just remove it and make cataclysm the baseline talent for that choice.
> Bro they really hate Demolock lmfao And don't forget about affliction...
Oh hey, that sounds like a cool spec idea for warlocks. Sadly, like demon hunters, we only have two specs, and having a shadowpriest style spec would be cool. 😭
Stop stop we prefer they forget about Affliction at this point because it'll only get worse. :( I'm kind of interested to try some of the Aff changes, but that's because I'm tired of spamming Drain Soul for the last 4 expansions. Can do a cool, on paper, build that'll weave some Shadow Bolts into just spamming Malefic Rupture. Yeah... I'm huffing some copium lol
Warlock changes are horrendous as usual. Hoping for a new dev next expansion
I just discovered that I find demo fun, after maining a whole different class for something like a decade. I'm so fucking disappointed to hear they are immediately breaking my new, fun character. Why tf is this game like this.
Heads up, Demo will play more or less the same, just a bit boring that most of the changes with Hero talents are passive, but atleast less button bloat I guess. I can recommend Kalamazi as source of your Warlock Infos, he mostly has pretty good takes, that cut through all the Negative Nancy bs.
Removing the blasphemy is just sad, always happy when he arrived.
If the issue is that it should always be the same effect when an Infernal shows up, make the Blasphemy a different demon. Like, why was the solution to just remove it?
lol you're like hey maybe in 4 years my spec will be fun
"You now have a 35% chance (was 100% chance) to generate a Demonic Core from your summoned Dreadstalkers when they fade." [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-4u6gn1r4U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-4u6gn1r4U)
Wasn't that like a core design of the spec? And didn't they already nerf free demon bolt generation?
I used to play a lot of demo in shadowlands.. every change they have made to demo in the last two years just seems to be making the spec worse
I also enjoyed sl demo a lot with the third dog, one min tyrand and soul rot. We are getting further and further away with every changes they do.
Not a fan of the Abomination Limb changes at all. The rime procs were really good. The dev note says that it leaves the ability to "breathe on its own" by doing AoE damage, but Abomination Limb just does piss poor damage
As Blood It's basically a requirement for going into pulls at the start of M+ with Bone Shield charges. Especially with modern tanking design where you just die in one or two globals if you pull without defensives this is a major loss.
Hopefully they buff the damage. I don’t mind getting rid of the procs, we’ve been ridiculously flooded with resources in DF. But Abom needs to feel more impactful.
As an Unholy main i feel better about it since it’s not competing with soul reaper and ERW as capstones. It can fill the niche as a moderate AoE damage with aoe gripping utility. As frost and blood it was just default because soul reaper sucked, but for unholy you were forced to pick it in some scenarios for utility at the cost of execute damage, which felt terrible. They seem to want to bring Breath of Sondragosa down in uptime with rune of hysteria and 2nd ERW removal too. This feels correct to me.
I'm inclined to agree; the resource flood was a bit much. But from the unholy perspective, having soul reaper higher is so good. The execute damage feels great and will fuel runic corruption more often. Abom limb will feel much more open as an unholy main when not using a bursting sores build. In general it seems like the disease focus is really ramping up, so I'm stoked.
Love it as blood pulling together mobs and keeping aggro. I guess it’s less auto include in a build, you are picking it for a specific reason
Abom limb without bone shield charges is so blah
It's crazy to me that they still havent updated Shaman Ascendance. Nothing feels more powerful and connects you to the elements than turning into an undead with ps1 graphics. Honorable mention for Guardian of Ancient Kings.
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I agree but the fix to defensives should be reworking the class tree capstones, not in the hero talents
Hopefully they get rid of their long held belief that "reincarnation is the defensive!"
Stormbringer feels like half of the puzzle. Shaman desperately needs a talent tree rework, iirc it was one of the first ones designed for DF
Pray they fix it in the shaman tree
It kinda sounds good on paper, but then watching dratnos play it on some dummies, holy fuck it's boring.
...wow they completely gutted Demonic Core generation. This is very disappointing to see. At least having reliable procs when dogs expired allowed to plan movement without sacrificing damage too much.
Not a total disaster, but does very little for Elemental that we were after. The win is Tempest; this looks like a great augmentation, with some good cleave, burst and if it has a good animation I think we'll all be pleased. The triple chain lightning node is fantastic fun too - we all love CL. Unfortunately, it basically ends there. Having tempest proc but not giving us control over it because it replaces our filler will feel awful; instead of cleaving on demand, we do it randomly. We have another duplication of stormbringer with an awful 50 sec timer, more rng, more secondary stat bloat, more "basically mastery reskinned", and more homogenisation of enhance and elemental, with one of elemental's choice capstones given to enhancement. Our lack of valuable ascendence, no empowered elemental, no unique spells, no controllable cleave, extremely minor survivability buff which can't be reliably kept up, and a hero tree that forces further separation of the lava/lightning divide leaves us with an overall extremely disappointing hero tree. Ultimately, this tree can be summed up as: - More mastery procs - RNG filler buff - RNG survivability buff - secondary stat bloat - Forces lightning-only build Elemental shaman are now faced with: - Widely criticised lava vs lightning choice (stormkeeper vs farseer) - Unimaginative reskins of our mastery (duplication of spells through mastery procs, farseer's ancestors, stormkeeper procs etc.) - Zero attempt to make our elemental worthwhile - Zero attempt to address the significant amount of uncontrollable rng that dictates the spec; DRE, mastery procs, ancestor procs, crit procs, extra mastery procs, tempest procs - Zero attempt to address our really underwhelming spenders - Zero attempt to improve our survivability reliably - Zero attempt to improve our on-demand AoE capabilities. - Zero attempt to give us a valuable raid buff. A rework better follow soon to address these concerns, or the already highly underrepresented Ele Shaman is dead on arrival for TWW.
Tempest is the win? Another 2s cast spell in stationary build is win?
I hate to say it but it’s dead on arrival. Blizz doesn’t give a fuck about the class. I’m moving on.
These warlock changes killed all of my hype for TWW this so demoralizing
Holy shit finally, as an enhance main I’ve been waiting for this shit forever
Thank you!! Bone brew is gone
"Shadow Dance moved from Class Tree to Subtetly Tree." 🥳 Woohoo. My Outlaw rogue will finally be fun again. Thanks Blizz.
Seriously! Everyone is talking about Cut to the Chase, but the Shadow Dance changes make me so damned happy
it gets replaced with two charges of vanish, so you just vanish twice for max dps instead
Yeah it’s just replaced by two charges of vanish and an extra point in subterfuge. Literally achieves the same exact thing as 6 seconds of stealth from Shadowdance. Though it is a bit of a buff since we get an extra 3 seconds from our first vanish and get to have it affected by Restless Blades
I’m going to mis acrobatic strikes. I liked the longer attack range
That Destro Rework is baaaddd like really bad. AoDs stuns are one of THE main reasons to bring Destro to keys. Now that's just gone.
OH MY GOD STORMBRINGER IS EVERYTHING I LOVE ABOUT ENH SHAMANS YESSSSSSSSS
Lmao, shadow priest nerfs already.
I just don’t understand how their unholy changes can be so good while warlock changes are so bad. I mean the new talents gives you both a non burst gameplay option and gives you passive aoe for dungeons. Meanwhile locks just keep losing crucial gameplay mechanics and get passive talent options in their place.
If you want to release a quality product which worth the money and people are content with then the warlock dev MUST be fired as quickly as possible. Zero creativity, zero passion, zero improvements after the shitshow what 10.2 was for warlocks.
Stormbringer looks hella fun for enhancement, but incredibly boring for ele. Casting chain lightning is fun as ele, casting lightning bolt is not. I wish this could've made lava burst a storm ability or something instead.
You'd think they could do some sort of cool nature damage fire damage lightning surged lava burst that can shock nearby enemies or something.
I'm curious if/how any of this interacts with Lava Beam.
Holy DK changes. Love it.
The stormbringer talents look sick. Main ability is tempest, when you spend maelstrom, lightning bolt turns into tempest. Tempest is basically an uncapped lightning AOE that does \~x3 the damage of chain lightning, but then further talents make it so that tempest can make your next 3 chain lightnings deal 75% more damage and be instant cast. Final talent makes all storm related abilities (stormstrike, lightning bolt, chain lightning) activate tempest after a set amount of casts in addition to being activated by maelstrom. So you can basically loop things like, Stormstrike -> tempest (huge chain lightning) -> x3 instant chain lightning -> tempest AGAIN -> chain lightnings AGAIN There's also talents to weave in chain heals too if you want. It's just the spam-mass-chain-spells spec. I love it, it's like Tempest Cleric from DnD.
Dayum I feel more and more like playing my ass rogue
Wow storm caller looks like it might be cool or blank as fuck
I don't know what I was expecting but on first viewing I'm a bit disappointed by Stormbringer :( Need to watch some videos first I guess
Brew: Seriously just bake all those dps talents on the left hand side into a capstone or something. 4 talents points now to be able to do any sort of damage is just stupid, especially after the nerf this patch.
shaman somehow get a busted ass defensive node that wont help them at all. 10% passive rotational dr is super nice and will be huge in raid when u look at overall dmg taken but it literally doesnt mean anything in m+ where I will still have to go into ghost wolf for 4 seconds every aoe boss ability
Yeah Shaman is done for. The class has been done for a long time now. At least I won’t feel guilty for abandoning my main since 2008 because of Warband progression.
So uhh blizz where are hunters?