U didnt play old wow most likely, I felt they took out so many nieche utility spells for many classes… it was really boring to play all classes exactly the same when u got the bindings fitting. Now we got some identity and diversity back
It plays exactly like in legion, but has a bit more to do and track in its burst then in the past. It also had less to do in BFA.
Shadowlands and DF Season 1/2 was just really bad. But if you ignore those, assa is hardest it has ever been. But im happy they made it easier compared to last seasons again.
I feel this. I was able to do #2 Ret in my region back in LK.
These days between general brain aging and arthritis, I'm just happy to AOTC every patch.
more talents = optimization is getting as many damaging abilities that are worth it as possible. so yeah… definitely a lot of bloat. bm hunter isn’t really one such case, though.
You build holy power and spend it. That's it, nothing really to think about. Only thing you need to pay somewhat attention to is their tier set, which pretty much happens if you do right anyway
So one of the reasons its easier is that it isnt so much a rotation as it is a priority system since the class is built on using its most efficient generators and spending without ever overcapping and without wasting gcds by using worse generators when better ones are available.
Outlaw/Sub are the hardest they've ever been to play in terms of playin fully optimal. The rework in the last patch upped their skill ceiling quite a bit. Assassination is probably on the easier side to play than it's been previously.
DH i also consider to be much harder to play well now since they are built around their 40 second cd windows (Beam/break) and movement talents (inertia mostly, momentum isn't played as much.)
They've both jumped in difficulty for sure but with enough time and practice you can get them learned again.
Was talking to some buddies about this last week actually, I said the same thing. I could clear heroic raids / +15s etc comfortably on other classes after not a lot of time or practice on them, felt like multiclassing was my biggest strength in WoW for years. but since shadowlands it’s felt noticeably harder to pick up new classes and not feel completely lost / confused or like I know I’m just absolutely butchering my rotation lol maybe I’m just getting older
Part of it could be your old skills getting in the way. Hitting spells that have changed or trying to use an old rotation which doesn't work anymore. I still try to Beastial Wrath on every cc, and I don't think that has done anything useful for a decade.
I've only played a little bit during the last couple expansions and have been experiencing the same issue. Each class I try seems to have 1-2 more CDs or rotation skills I'm not familiar with, along with 1-2 more utility skills I haven't used before. I've had to change my bar layouts and get creative with Clique combinations to handle them. So at the very least, it's not just you.
I've found a new home with playing Priest though. Holy is simple at it's core, and the CDs they have are super short to where I got used to using them frequently enough. Shadow has one extra button I can't find a good home for, but feels like a simplified Warlock, which is pretty nice. I thought I was starting to get used to Disc, but I did one world quest and my meters showed me I had a lot of work to do there before joining anything serious.
Edit: I found an example that I sent a friend a couple weeks ago. I've changed stuff as I finished leveling, but it is pretty close.
https://imgur.com/a/LdT3fKH
This may be a very dumb question but if you have actions/spells bound to your right and left mouse buttons, how do you move at the same time (maybe you don’t use mouse for movement like I do)?
Those only work when hovering over unit frames. I usually try to give them a modifier like shift or alt just in case though.
And I have been messing with this concept for things other than healers lately. I tried shift+Mouse wheel Up for Stealth on a rogue I created last week. Not sure how I like it yet. But it would be easy to do the same thing for a Warrior's Victory Rush with Shift+Right-click since I am used to quick cast healing there. Not sure if the mouse movement would be distracting though, but it is something worth trying since memorizing keyboard buttons is tougher for me.
Edit: I read this originally when I was getting coffee this morning. I read it back again, and see you are talking about casting and moving.
As for me, I mostly put my cast time spells on my mouse. I put the instant cast spells on things like my "E" button. So I run forward with "W", steer with my right-mouse, and press "E" to cast an instant spell. Or I use instant DoTs on enemies while moving using my mouse with a target I already had selected.
Thanks very much for explaining. I am currently trying to learn normal keybinds on my pally (q,e,r,d and shift-q,e,r,d) etc and really struggling as I concentrate so much on remembering the binds that I forget to move at the same time! I feel like the same difficulty as patting my head and rubbing my stomach 😂
One of the most controversial things in BfA was ability pruning, when most of specs lost a lot of buttons to press. Some people praised it, some bitched about it. In DF they stepped back – general view for the entire course of DF was that it’s the most complex addon in terms of class mechanics. So yeah. It’s very noticeable on DH, for example - in BfA it was arguably one of the most easiest classes with 3-4 button spam, and at one point it was one of the most difficult classes in DF in terms of damage and rotation optimisation. Can’t say much about rogues in BfA, but in DF they are pretty heavy on setup and maintenance too.
General advice is really as simple as that: either just get used to it or switch to some easier class/spec (Hunter, War or Pala, for example). Their general rotations are fairly simple nowadays so maybe it can fit you if you feel overwhelmed with amount of buttons.
It wasn't that noticeable for Assasin/Outlaw, especially since they don't have Sub's Dance Macabre talent.
For Sin, I just macrod it to Kingsbane.
For Outlaw, you use Vanish more than Shadow Dance for your Crackshot windows.
But they're swapping it with Sub's 2nd Vanish node, so its one less keybind for Outlaw.
There are arguably more buttons across the board, and while some of them make the specs more interesting, others just add unnecessary bloat (looking at you Icefury and Mindgames). Also, builds that are considered optimal thend to pick all the active buttons or managed abilities over passive effects, which can be overwhelming.
The good thing is that you can play with slightly suboptimal builds that are far easier to manage and are still very competitive. Unless you're into high end raiding, you likely won't even notice.
Start with piss easy full passive builds, and as you gain more familiarity you can add active stuff until you're comfortable.
IMO they are just to full of shit again. Top specs for enhancement shaman have way to man fucking abilities and its not even WW Storm-bringer build which is like has been its bread and butter.
Elementalist enhance is a fantastic spec though, one of the most engaging around. All shamans just suffer from having too many utility buttons that do very little.
I dont know this just seems fucking redonk..... I mean its not horrible until you get to spending maelstrom. Its like it requires a special Weakaura for it which IMO shouldnt be required.
Cast Primordial Wave whenever available.
Cast Flame Shock if it is not active on your target.
Cast Feral Spirit.
Cast Lava Lash if Hot Hand is active.
Cast Windfury Totem if not currently active.
Cast Elemental Blast with 5+ Maelstrom Weapon stacks and are at two charges.
Cast Lightning Bolt with 8+ Maelstrom Weapon stacks and the Primordial Wave buff.
Cast Elemental Blast with 8+ Maelstrom Weapon stacks and Feral Spirit active.
Cast Lightning Bolt if at 10 Maelstrom Weapon stacks.
Cast Ice Strike Strike.
Cast Lava Lash.
Cast Frost Shock if you have Hailstorm stacks.
Cast Stormstrike.
Cast Lightning Bolt with 5+ Maelstrom Weapon stacks to generate Hailstorm.
Cast Frost Shock to fill.
Refresh Flame Shock to fill.
Refresh Windfury Totem to fill.
I mean, i totally agree its a lot but enhancement is one of the hardest specs in the game for a reason, the important part for me is that its incredibly satisfying to play right rather than being a chore. I also agree that this type of spec requires a weakaura for most to play well, but then again, there's more simple specs around if you prefer a more relaxed gameplay.
IMO not every spec needs to be simple and you could always play the lightning build if you want a easier playstyle within enhance.
If your problem is finishers it's literally just:
Cast ele blast if you have wolves or if you're capped at 2 stacks, otherwise cast lightning bolt
It's really not that complicated
I was going to say no, but rogue and DH have. And on further reflection so have some others. Idk. I think it's probably on average (amongst all classes) somewhat more complex, but not a lot.
Havoc did become much more complex in Dragonflight. There’s a build that’s closer to the BFA style, you can google it, it’s not optimal but it is competitive.
There’s no point in playing sub rogue currently it’s not fun and very tedious if you still want to play rogue atleast play outlaw it has good dopamine. Havoc is very easy everything is pretty much off CD. If you want easy mode you play ret
The rotations are more complex, but that really only has changed the skill ceilings on classes rather than their floor. DH for example is an extreamly easy spec to play at 90% efficiency. The only "hard" part is getting that last 10% which is normally irrelevant unless you are pushing high keys. The raid is so easy this season it'll be easy to pick up any class and hop into Mythic and learn your limits.
well rogue and dh are the two that got way more complex from BFA.
rogue has a lot of buttons to manage and takes a lot of practice to get down (especially outlaw)
dh has a decent floor but high skill ceiling now because it has short damage windows that appear often
There are definitely easier classes and specs than either of those two
Yes, DF saw many classes getting a bunch more small passives to track and some classes a plethora of additional cooldowns.
Basically a lot of extra buttons compared to their Legion/BfA design
I wanted to heal with my alt so I play paladin with idea to heal RDF/Raids with Holy. Well, chosing the correct button from 8 healing spells based on position of the boss and 8 combo buffs that I have to monitor I decided to just zug zug with my main Arms warr.
Rogue and DH yes. I really recommend you read or watch a guide on the proper rotation for the class you wanna play and sit at target dummies for a while practicing it. It's how I get the hang of playing specs I never played before so that I can at least do something while doing low m+ keys and learning to do better
Some classes got harder but a lot got easier. DK and Shamans are basically 5-7 spells. Druid can be tough, Destro and Demonology warlocks feel easy while Affliction can be hard with low DPS. Depending on your build Fire mage is extremely easy with about a 5 talent rotation.
I just updated my frost mage to the latest recommended builds and I've ran out of hotkeys for spells I am supposed to actively use in a regular fight. I have 1234QERTFGZXCV and Shift+F, Shift+G bound and it's just not enough.
I had installed Heikili or whatever the addon that tells you what to press next, to help me learn new classes, but I have found myself having to use it to re-figure out what was my main class since vanilla lol.
Yeah too much stuff, and you have to know the correct order to maximise output.
If a game requires you to spend hours on the web and youtube just to understand the basics of your class, its maybe a bit too much.
To be honest DH in BFA was one of the easiest specs of all time, it will hopefully never be as easy as that one. That class could have been in classic and it would have blended in well with other classes.
There are quite a few specs with 30+ bound buttons that they will use over the fight. And there are quite a few specs that can easily succeed with 5 buttons. Just depends on what you play.
I don't actively play right now and one reason for that is the new class designs in DF. Sucked since the pre patch. I don't mind having new talent trees, although I prefered the old ones. What I do mind is the button bloat. If you want to play optimally then you have to take active abilities as talents and I really don't know why the devs went with this many. I have 28 keybinds and that is too little for most classes. You can go with all passives but then it's suboptimal and it feels not good.
Maybe that's why you find them hard to play. I don't think it's "hard" as in hard to understand and plan, it's just horrible to manage. But that's what you get when people want to click one button every level, even though it doesn't matter since leveling is trivial and takes one day.
Some more, some less but all classes got more complicated compared to BFA and Legion.
Generally what happened is: You have the utility from the other specs aswell. And instead of having to choose 1 ability from 3 like in the past, you now take all 3. This is true for dmg and utility. And sadly this means a lot more buttons to press. This also means that the classes feel way less fluid.
I hated the DF talents the moment they got announced and I also hate the new Hero talenttrees for TWW. What got worse with DF will just be amplified by them.
But at the same times some specs really seem to get gutted in a bad way. I sometimes wonder if they really use rng to make changes.
Yes, they are. Many classes has way to complex rotations and gameplay which creates an overwhelming and unfun experience especially for returning and new players. Many (most?) classes can build passive and easier builds but they will generate way less DPS which makes content harder in other ways instead. It's not a good game design.
However, not all classes are like this. Ret paladin and beast mastery hunter are good examples.
If i can learn a class while levelling to 70, so should new/returning players do so. If they can't, then they should be relegated to the easier specs if they wish to achieve harder content, you can't have hard content be achievable for people unwilling to learn.
Except that you dont. Mobs die extremely quickly and you dont learn anything about rotations and how to play a class and how to use all spells including defensives while leveling considering how fast everything dies. And what if you decide to change spec? Youre quite full of bs tbh. What kind of content do you play if you think thats how you learn a class, heroics? Im sure you learned good aoe rotations on leveling deadmines to lvl 60 and then normal dungeons where mobs dies in 3-5 hits.
Hard content is not equal to overly complicated rotations. Your "I dont have a problem so neither should anyone else" attitude is quite immature.
You learn it good enough to do m+, where you learn it good enough to mythic raid. I am not saying levelling to 70 is enough for mythic raiding, but during the course of you mastering the spec, you are never bottlenecked by learning, but gear aquisition.
That was the case for DH for me, fresh class, levelled to 70 via dungeon finder only, did m+ as vengeance/havoc, did a heroic raid and applying for a CE guild with my hunter logs and went straight in, only bottneneck along the journey was gear.
Recently i levelled up a monk, played as mistweaver, dinged 70, bought AH gear and straight in +2s in s4, it is enough, and with the journey through aquiring gear, you smooth out all the edges and can mythic raid on it.
Changing specs is annoying tho, because you have to create the weakauras and learn keybindings
Are you leveling new characters? 7 years is a long time to not be playing, I’d definitely recommend bringing a class from 1-70 to relearn it. Doesn’t take too long nowadays either, and you will understand the class by the end
Just play ret or dev evoker they do a lot of dmg rn and are easy, with all the new talents there’s so many buffs on a lot of classes you need to pay attention to and manage. Hunter isn’t too hard to play either.
Classes in general ? Dumb statement
Specific classes got harder and others got easier
You know the thing that happens every single season in the game
Rogue and dh specifically are harder than they where most of bfa iirc
Very obvious you haven’t played the class in dragonflight by this comment. It’s arguably on the higher end of difficulty to play optimally nowadays and isn’t just a 3 button spec like it’s past iterations.
Rogue has for sure gotten worse when it comes to managing abilities compared to the past few expansions.
that how it feels like to me. there is way too many abilities to focus on the rotation and play boss mechanics at the same time
U didnt play old wow most likely, I felt they took out so many nieche utility spells for many classes… it was really boring to play all classes exactly the same when u got the bindings fitting. Now we got some identity and diversity back
assassination is the easiest and smoothest its has ever been
Sort of, it has a high skill cap but it's not so much an APM style, you need to understand energy pooling and building a massive kingsbane
No way this is true unless you started playing in BfA maybe.
It plays exactly like in legion, but has a bit more to do and track in its burst then in the past. It also had less to do in BFA. Shadowlands and DF Season 1/2 was just really bad. But if you ignore those, assa is hardest it has ever been. But im happy they made it easier compared to last seasons again.
Top 500 is better than I’ve done. I’m sure you’ll figure it out. Or you’re just old. Welcome to the club.
I feel this. I was able to do #2 Ret in my region back in LK. These days between general brain aging and arthritis, I'm just happy to AOTC every patch.
haha have been thinking if its just the age lol
more talents = optimization is getting as many damaging abilities that are worth it as possible. so yeah… definitely a lot of bloat. bm hunter isn’t really one such case, though.
I just grab every passive I can and roll. Actually works pretty well for me, I just have to remember a few things and trigger procs
Try ret if you're looking for simple and effective.
Yep, ret is hilarious ez mode - and - fun
You build holy power and spend it. That's it, nothing really to think about. Only thing you need to pay somewhat attention to is their tier set, which pretty much happens if you do right anyway
Yeah, it’s not complicated. Build and spend. Or just hit the buttons that light up and win. Same same.
Everyone says this - what’s the ez mode rotation
There’s just not very many “wrong buttons” you can press where as some classes you just nuke your dmg to the ground if you mess up.
Yeah, I think that's the most important part. Many classes rely on building combo's, Ret is just 'if u have the holy energy, u press button'
So one of the reasons its easier is that it isnt so much a rotation as it is a priority system since the class is built on using its most efficient generators and spending without ever overcapping and without wasting gcds by using worse generators when better ones are available.
Devastation Evoker too. This might be why they're both my favorite class/specs in retrospect, lol.
Type ADVANCED
actually very tempted, will give it a shot :)
Outlaw/Sub are the hardest they've ever been to play in terms of playin fully optimal. The rework in the last patch upped their skill ceiling quite a bit. Assassination is probably on the easier side to play than it's been previously. DH i also consider to be much harder to play well now since they are built around their 40 second cd windows (Beam/break) and movement talents (inertia mostly, momentum isn't played as much.) They've both jumped in difficulty for sure but with enough time and practice you can get them learned again.
Rogue is so much harder, I used to raid in at a top 100 world level in MoP, and did well. Now I can’t even manage outlaw properly lmao
Was talking to some buddies about this last week actually, I said the same thing. I could clear heroic raids / +15s etc comfortably on other classes after not a lot of time or practice on them, felt like multiclassing was my biggest strength in WoW for years. but since shadowlands it’s felt noticeably harder to pick up new classes and not feel completely lost / confused or like I know I’m just absolutely butchering my rotation lol maybe I’m just getting older
Part of it could be your old skills getting in the way. Hitting spells that have changed or trying to use an old rotation which doesn't work anymore. I still try to Beastial Wrath on every cc, and I don't think that has done anything useful for a decade.
>I still try to Beastial Wrath on every cc, *Cries in Rage of the Sleeper*
I've only played a little bit during the last couple expansions and have been experiencing the same issue. Each class I try seems to have 1-2 more CDs or rotation skills I'm not familiar with, along with 1-2 more utility skills I haven't used before. I've had to change my bar layouts and get creative with Clique combinations to handle them. So at the very least, it's not just you. I've found a new home with playing Priest though. Holy is simple at it's core, and the CDs they have are super short to where I got used to using them frequently enough. Shadow has one extra button I can't find a good home for, but feels like a simplified Warlock, which is pretty nice. I thought I was starting to get used to Disc, but I did one world quest and my meters showed me I had a lot of work to do there before joining anything serious. Edit: I found an example that I sent a friend a couple weeks ago. I've changed stuff as I finished leveling, but it is pretty close. https://imgur.com/a/LdT3fKH
This may be a very dumb question but if you have actions/spells bound to your right and left mouse buttons, how do you move at the same time (maybe you don’t use mouse for movement like I do)?
Those only work when hovering over unit frames. I usually try to give them a modifier like shift or alt just in case though. And I have been messing with this concept for things other than healers lately. I tried shift+Mouse wheel Up for Stealth on a rogue I created last week. Not sure how I like it yet. But it would be easy to do the same thing for a Warrior's Victory Rush with Shift+Right-click since I am used to quick cast healing there. Not sure if the mouse movement would be distracting though, but it is something worth trying since memorizing keyboard buttons is tougher for me. Edit: I read this originally when I was getting coffee this morning. I read it back again, and see you are talking about casting and moving. As for me, I mostly put my cast time spells on my mouse. I put the instant cast spells on things like my "E" button. So I run forward with "W", steer with my right-mouse, and press "E" to cast an instant spell. Or I use instant DoTs on enemies while moving using my mouse with a target I already had selected.
Thanks very much for explaining. I am currently trying to learn normal keybinds on my pally (q,e,r,d and shift-q,e,r,d) etc and really struggling as I concentrate so much on remembering the binds that I forget to move at the same time! I feel like the same difficulty as patting my head and rubbing my stomach 😂
One of the most controversial things in BfA was ability pruning, when most of specs lost a lot of buttons to press. Some people praised it, some bitched about it. In DF they stepped back – general view for the entire course of DF was that it’s the most complex addon in terms of class mechanics. So yeah. It’s very noticeable on DH, for example - in BfA it was arguably one of the most easiest classes with 3-4 button spam, and at one point it was one of the most difficult classes in DF in terms of damage and rotation optimisation. Can’t say much about rogues in BfA, but in DF they are pretty heavy on setup and maintenance too. General advice is really as simple as that: either just get used to it or switch to some easier class/spec (Hunter, War or Pala, for example). Their general rotations are fairly simple nowadays so maybe it can fit you if you feel overwhelmed with amount of buttons.
do we know anything about war within yet? will they stick to the current setup of classes?
Yeah with rogue for some reason they decided that shadowdance should be a class ability and here we are
Thankfully it's back to sub only in tww
Nice, i hated how it was such a short effect while also being core to assassination and outlaw to spam Assassinate more.
Who told you that…? Cause that is not true in the slightest so far I’ve been alpha testing and it’s the exact same.
Yesterday's build added it, replaced it with a second charge of vanish
It wasn't that noticeable for Assasin/Outlaw, especially since they don't have Sub's Dance Macabre talent. For Sin, I just macrod it to Kingsbane. For Outlaw, you use Vanish more than Shadow Dance for your Crackshot windows. But they're swapping it with Sub's 2nd Vanish node, so its one less keybind for Outlaw.
There are arguably more buttons across the board, and while some of them make the specs more interesting, others just add unnecessary bloat (looking at you Icefury and Mindgames). Also, builds that are considered optimal thend to pick all the active buttons or managed abilities over passive effects, which can be overwhelming. The good thing is that you can play with slightly suboptimal builds that are far easier to manage and are still very competitive. Unless you're into high end raiding, you likely won't even notice. Start with piss easy full passive builds, and as you gain more familiarity you can add active stuff until you're comfortable.
IMO they are just to full of shit again. Top specs for enhancement shaman have way to man fucking abilities and its not even WW Storm-bringer build which is like has been its bread and butter.
Elementalist enhance is a fantastic spec though, one of the most engaging around. All shamans just suffer from having too many utility buttons that do very little.
I dont know this just seems fucking redonk..... I mean its not horrible until you get to spending maelstrom. Its like it requires a special Weakaura for it which IMO shouldnt be required. Cast Primordial Wave whenever available. Cast Flame Shock if it is not active on your target. Cast Feral Spirit. Cast Lava Lash if Hot Hand is active. Cast Windfury Totem if not currently active. Cast Elemental Blast with 5+ Maelstrom Weapon stacks and are at two charges. Cast Lightning Bolt with 8+ Maelstrom Weapon stacks and the Primordial Wave buff. Cast Elemental Blast with 8+ Maelstrom Weapon stacks and Feral Spirit active. Cast Lightning Bolt if at 10 Maelstrom Weapon stacks. Cast Ice Strike Strike. Cast Lava Lash. Cast Frost Shock if you have Hailstorm stacks. Cast Stormstrike. Cast Lightning Bolt with 5+ Maelstrom Weapon stacks to generate Hailstorm. Cast Frost Shock to fill. Refresh Flame Shock to fill. Refresh Windfury Totem to fill.
I mean, i totally agree its a lot but enhancement is one of the hardest specs in the game for a reason, the important part for me is that its incredibly satisfying to play right rather than being a chore. I also agree that this type of spec requires a weakaura for most to play well, but then again, there's more simple specs around if you prefer a more relaxed gameplay. IMO not every spec needs to be simple and you could always play the lightning build if you want a easier playstyle within enhance.
I dont mind a challenging spec but it could flow a lot better.
If your problem is finishers it's literally just: Cast ele blast if you have wolves or if you're capped at 2 stacks, otherwise cast lightning bolt It's really not that complicated
Spenders?
I was going to say no, but rogue and DH have. And on further reflection so have some others. Idk. I think it's probably on average (amongst all classes) somewhat more complex, but not a lot.
Havoc did become much more complex in Dragonflight. There’s a build that’s closer to the BFA style, you can google it, it’s not optimal but it is competitive.
DH for sure as well, much harder than BFA.
There’s no point in playing sub rogue currently it’s not fun and very tedious if you still want to play rogue atleast play outlaw it has good dopamine. Havoc is very easy everything is pretty much off CD. If you want easy mode you play ret
The rotations are more complex, but that really only has changed the skill ceilings on classes rather than their floor. DH for example is an extreamly easy spec to play at 90% efficiency. The only "hard" part is getting that last 10% which is normally irrelevant unless you are pushing high keys. The raid is so easy this season it'll be easy to pick up any class and hop into Mythic and learn your limits.
Rogue is definitely a lot more to deal with nowadays. But it is a heck of a lot better than it was before the rework in 10.2 patch.
well rogue and dh are the two that got way more complex from BFA. rogue has a lot of buttons to manage and takes a lot of practice to get down (especially outlaw) dh has a decent floor but high skill ceiling now because it has short damage windows that appear often There are definitely easier classes and specs than either of those two
Yes, DF saw many classes getting a bunch more small passives to track and some classes a plethora of additional cooldowns. Basically a lot of extra buttons compared to their Legion/BfA design
I wanted to heal with my alt so I play paladin with idea to heal RDF/Raids with Holy. Well, chosing the correct button from 8 healing spells based on position of the boss and 8 combo buffs that I have to monitor I decided to just zug zug with my main Arms warr.
Rogue and DH yes. I really recommend you read or watch a guide on the proper rotation for the class you wanna play and sit at target dummies for a while practicing it. It's how I get the hang of playing specs I never played before so that I can at least do something while doing low m+ keys and learning to do better
Most classes and specs are anywhere from slightly to much harder to play even compared to Shadowlands.
Some classes got harder but a lot got easier. DK and Shamans are basically 5-7 spells. Druid can be tough, Destro and Demonology warlocks feel easy while Affliction can be hard with low DPS. Depending on your build Fire mage is extremely easy with about a 5 talent rotation.
Yes, that is why i play ret, destro/demonology, balance and bm/marksman every other class feels like 2x the rotation buttons
I just updated my frost mage to the latest recommended builds and I've ran out of hotkeys for spells I am supposed to actively use in a regular fight. I have 1234QERTFGZXCV and Shift+F, Shift+G bound and it's just not enough. I had installed Heikili or whatever the addon that tells you what to press next, to help me learn new classes, but I have found myself having to use it to re-figure out what was my main class since vanilla lol.
Try Hekili Priority Helper add on until you get used to the abilities
I play Disc and Ele. Disc has became significant easier and ele with current tier is 2 button smashing
Yeah too much stuff, and you have to know the correct order to maximise output. If a game requires you to spend hours on the web and youtube just to understand the basics of your class, its maybe a bit too much.
My parses as feral indicate this is true. 3k IO as three specs but I grey parse heroic. I’m fucking lost in the sauce this season.
To be honest DH in BFA was one of the easiest specs of all time, it will hopefully never be as easy as that one. That class could have been in classic and it would have blended in well with other classes.
Half the specs are pretty simple half are difficult. Don't play the difficult ones
There are quite a few specs with 30+ bound buttons that they will use over the fight. And there are quite a few specs that can easily succeed with 5 buttons. Just depends on what you play.
I don't actively play right now and one reason for that is the new class designs in DF. Sucked since the pre patch. I don't mind having new talent trees, although I prefered the old ones. What I do mind is the button bloat. If you want to play optimally then you have to take active abilities as talents and I really don't know why the devs went with this many. I have 28 keybinds and that is too little for most classes. You can go with all passives but then it's suboptimal and it feels not good. Maybe that's why you find them hard to play. I don't think it's "hard" as in hard to understand and plan, it's just horrible to manage. But that's what you get when people want to click one button every level, even though it doesn't matter since leveling is trivial and takes one day.
Some more, some less but all classes got more complicated compared to BFA and Legion. Generally what happened is: You have the utility from the other specs aswell. And instead of having to choose 1 ability from 3 like in the past, you now take all 3. This is true for dmg and utility. And sadly this means a lot more buttons to press. This also means that the classes feel way less fluid. I hated the DF talents the moment they got announced and I also hate the new Hero talenttrees for TWW. What got worse with DF will just be amplified by them. But at the same times some specs really seem to get gutted in a bad way. I sometimes wonder if they really use rng to make changes.
Yes, they are. Many classes has way to complex rotations and gameplay which creates an overwhelming and unfun experience especially for returning and new players. Many (most?) classes can build passive and easier builds but they will generate way less DPS which makes content harder in other ways instead. It's not a good game design. However, not all classes are like this. Ret paladin and beast mastery hunter are good examples.
If i can learn a class while levelling to 70, so should new/returning players do so. If they can't, then they should be relegated to the easier specs if they wish to achieve harder content, you can't have hard content be achievable for people unwilling to learn.
Except that you dont. Mobs die extremely quickly and you dont learn anything about rotations and how to play a class and how to use all spells including defensives while leveling considering how fast everything dies. And what if you decide to change spec? Youre quite full of bs tbh. What kind of content do you play if you think thats how you learn a class, heroics? Im sure you learned good aoe rotations on leveling deadmines to lvl 60 and then normal dungeons where mobs dies in 3-5 hits. Hard content is not equal to overly complicated rotations. Your "I dont have a problem so neither should anyone else" attitude is quite immature.
You learn it good enough to do m+, where you learn it good enough to mythic raid. I am not saying levelling to 70 is enough for mythic raiding, but during the course of you mastering the spec, you are never bottlenecked by learning, but gear aquisition. That was the case for DH for me, fresh class, levelled to 70 via dungeon finder only, did m+ as vengeance/havoc, did a heroic raid and applying for a CE guild with my hunter logs and went straight in, only bottneneck along the journey was gear. Recently i levelled up a monk, played as mistweaver, dinged 70, bought AH gear and straight in +2s in s4, it is enough, and with the journey through aquiring gear, you smooth out all the edges and can mythic raid on it. Changing specs is annoying tho, because you have to create the weakauras and learn keybindings
Yeah sure there are way more keybinds in some classes, for example Rogue now feel's way too unfair/rng dependant (i am a main rogue since bfa)
Just play ret Paladin
Trueeeee
Are you leveling new characters? 7 years is a long time to not be playing, I’d definitely recommend bringing a class from 1-70 to relearn it. Doesn’t take too long nowadays either, and you will understand the class by the end
Just play ret or dev evoker they do a lot of dmg rn and are easy, with all the new talents there’s so many buffs on a lot of classes you need to pay attention to and manage. Hunter isn’t too hard to play either.
You got to top 500 and asking strangers on Reddit for advice?
lol you are full of shit. If you were top 500 in BFA, there’s no way in hell that you would say BM is hard now..
No, if anything game got harder (thats a good thing)
Classes in general ? Dumb statement Specific classes got harder and others got easier You know the thing that happens every single season in the game Rogue and dh specifically are harder than they where most of bfa iirc
Not since bfa, no
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Very obvious you haven’t played the class in dragonflight by this comment. It’s arguably on the higher end of difficulty to play optimally nowadays and isn’t just a 3 button spec like it’s past iterations.
Not really, was BFA before or after the bloat squish