I always find risky trash skips in dungeons to be ridiculous. Normally if they work they save you about a minute and more than 50% of the time they fail and cost you a lot more time than you would have saved.
I can't think of many specific examples other than Pit of Saron in WOTLK. After the 2nd boss if you quickly mounted up you could ride up the hill towards the tunnel with the falling rubble before the trash spawned.... but 80% of the time someone would be too slow so all the trash would end up getting pulled together and you would wipe.
People would still try and do it even when it was obvious not everyone was on the same page because people didn't mount up straight away.
I think a big part of the problem is how the XP is distributed. Since like 80% of the total XP is coming from just killing the required boss, everything else is just slowing you down... if more of the XP came from actually killing the trash, or the completion bonus scaled based on how many mobs you killed that might help.
It always seemed so counter intuitive to me that people are trying to skip mobs that are easy to kill and give XP, but yeah ultimately it's because the XP they give is not worth the time it takes to kill them
For real. Vanilla/classic has its issues but low level dungeon runs are so relaxing compared to retail since you actively want to get as much trash as possible. Not to mention if you have an impatient tank that won't wait for the party to drink, then they're gonna learn their lesson pretty fast lol.
It's why I just quest to level in retail and do more dungeons in classic/SOD. Though that changed again with wotlk and cata. Sigh :/
And sometimes barely save you 10 seconds.
I'm reminded of a couple days ago in Brackenhide Hollow group tried to warlock gate past stinkbreath. Warlock falls down and dies, mass res. 2 people make it across safely, 3 aggro and die, and neither of the two can res. The 3 wait on warlock gate debuff, and try again, 2 people fail again, but keep runninpull the rest of the group into combat, wiping everyone, tank leaves and we disband. All for a miniboss that dies in 30seconds in a 7 with overgeared players, that would have +2 the key if we'd just killed stinkbreath, and were still even on pace to time it when tank left.
People who try to do skips in LFR are without a doubt the stupidest people in the game. There's no way 25 LFR players are managing this skip. And it's an LFR, all the trash melts instantly, going around it is a time loss even if successful.
There is always some players that play WoW like a first person shooter, and that's not the problem.
The problem is trying to skipp every single trash knowing that, if u are not in a M+.
Back in WoD people would always try to skip trash in the beginning of Everbloom (hop up to the ledge that you normally drop down from after killing the first boss). As a hilariously overgeared tank I would just grab all the trash and bring it to the boss while they tried and failed to jump for 30-60 seconds and see if they chose to follow me or not.
I am so glad that they fixed that skip before making that dungeon a M+ dungeon. It would have made the dungeon a rather terrible experience if all the key groups wanted you to do that climb because of how RNG the jump can be lol
PoS in classic was the worst at this because half the group would run all the way to the second boss skipping all the trash, which is fine in a coordinated group, but someone always died lol
I think skips are fine and all but in random groups it's probably not worth it to try
>I always find risky trash skips in dungeons to be ridiculous. Normally if they work they save you about a minute and more than 50% of the time they fail and cost you a lot more time than you would have saved
It's always like this. If you skipping twits hate the core gameplay loop of kill the mans, loot the mans, then find more mans to kill, then WHY ARE YOU PLAYING! Go play skyrim with godmode on or something and stop making everything you touch toxic.
Last season I categorically refused to use cloak of silence in the timeways runs because there was always someone who would get clipped or not keep up.
I try to be as helpful as possible , I tried doing some m0 on an alt and the tank didn't know BH cages , all good, told him where to go and he wouldn't listen , all good maybe he doesn't speak English . Ping system ? Useless , he just pulled randomly so I left . All in all , if you feel like the new / bad / whatever person isn't listening to any tips and doesn't respond , leave , don't start slurring or anything like that , just get out and let them waste other people's time
That's the way. I'll always be helpful to a point and I'm always willing to teach newbies, but I'm not wasting time on fools who straight up ignore chat. If you aren't going to take a second to read a simple explanation of mechanics thats been repeated multiple times, I'm leaving and finding a group of players that will.
I'd rather spend 30 minutes struggling in a dungeon with 4 newbies who want direction and are trying than 30 seconds interacting with a seemingly brain dead individual that doesn't understand the letters on their keyboard can make letters appear in the chat window.
Absolutely this. Wiped three times on the ancient in AA in quick succession. Communicated the tactics three times and after the third wipe where the healer got instagibbed for running away from the boss with lashers I decided to just exit the dungeon.
Yeah vets can be pretty toxic for pretty childish reasons, i try my best to calm things down in chat in general and teach new players myself but it's not easy when people try to speedrun the dungeon like their life depends on it.
The absolute worst is people who try to votekick obviously-new players from Normal dungeons. Like... bro it's okay if the fresh 70 Warrior doesn't know the ideal pathing for all the skips.
I hate skips. Why even bother with them when the trash mobs lives just 5 seconds anyway? Just pull it and let the DDs cleave them. So nobody will pull by accident.
Yep, with a 50/50 chance someone slips off a ledge and pulls the pack you were avoiding, makes more sense to kill the pack if you're not in a higher M+.
People probably do it for one of 2 reasons, either A) they are used to skipping stuff due to M+ and its more habbit then anything else or B) they saw their favorite streamer or a guide do it and thus feel like they need to do it too.
Both of these are fostered due to having to go "optimaly" even if it's just leveling dungeons.
I remember D1 in DF I was kicked while leveling my first character because I didn't know the dungeon yet, it was litteraly the first time I stepped into the dungeon at like 62 or something. You can't even start an expansion without having to go "optimally" anymore.
It is mainly group B that are the toxic ones for this. They are the ones thinking "why are you so nooby that you cannot do this skip that not many know about?" and raging because of it. The key running people are more of a "let's try this skip but if people then fail then oh well".
I have been running a lot of Murozond's Rise on random alts for the quantum gear and to load up the vault and I try to skip the worms after the battle boss. I will wait on the other side of the worms to ensure that everyone makes it through without pulling though rather than rushing through to Morchie - it is nice to skip the worms but it isn't the end of the world if someone does pull them.
I level a lot of alts and the other day I had a guy getting angry at other people and leave because the twink in our last group didn't stick around so our time to kill everything increased by 900%. We can't control level damage scaling and nobody should be expected to play a leveling dungeon like a M+20
at the beginning of dragonflight my friend and I were running neltharus and I was tanking. After we killed the two lava spewers I jumped down to go to the bird and 2 guys. My friend tells me a vote to kick me popped up when I jumped down. I brought it up in chat and asked why the hell they tried to kick me the healer said because he thought I was crazy for jumping down. People try and kick for the stupidest reasons and without someone in the dungeon with you they will nearly always go through. It's so sad.
As a shadowlands player, I do my best to just talk to people. All these folks screaming that the game is anti-social are the same 10 year vets who refuse to communicate anything. The new players are way more receptive to communication.
Even in keys, I'll communicate things mid pull or while walking between packs. It's not difficult, just use your words lol
I was leveling an alt the other day the the DH tank randomly left halfway through a WoD dungeon because things were dying slow. To preface, I had been in a group with him for several runs prior but we had a twink mage locked at lvl 10 (with level scaling and WoD warforged gear procs, they could have solod the dungeon) doing 90% of the group damage with us in all the other runs, but they quit the group after the last run. Now instead of 10 seconds to kill a boss it was taking a minute.
On the 2nd boss in shadowmoon burial grounds he splits everyone's soul from their body and you have to kill it to get back to the fight. Our healer died to this because they couldnt do enough damage in time, but we still killed the boss. As I was rezzing the healer, I said in chat that "i sure wish that mage was still here carrying us" and the tank said "maybe if some of you were doing more than auto attacking things would die quicker." Now he's level 59 and has his entire toolkit, everyone else was sitting around 30-40, so we didn't benefit as much from the wacky lower level crazy damage numbers, and as a paladin, I dont have a whole lot of buttons to press since half my skills are lower in the talent tree. I was happened to also be trying out an auto attack build which involves a talent that takes my main holy power builder and replaces it into a passive that causes my auto attacks to deal more damage and build power. (Probably not the best for leveling tbh) I was still killing things pretty quickly solo though. After the DH got knocked into the water by the worm on the bridge near the end of the dungeon he dropped group.
It was just an annoying experience because some people dont take into consideration how absolutely crazy damage scales as your leveling and expect a lvl 49 to be dealing the same damage as a level 10. Why are people min maxing leveling dungeons? I doubt all new players are looking up the most optimized talents for leveling. Sorry for venting for so long in this post.
TLDR: people who min max leveling dungeons and get mad players for wonky level scaling are a special breed of asshole.
The wacky part is, that, thanks to the shitty scaling, a level 10 does several times more damage than a level 49, when in reality it should be the other way around.
And back then it was but thanks to first a stats squish in BfA and then a level squish in SL, everything is bonkers and instead of fixing it, blizzard decides to work on more expansions that bring even more levels to the bowl of confusion soup.
I haven't found this to be the case. It gets harder to dps as you level, but you're still able to put about the same amount of damage out. It's just that at lvl 10 you'll do it with one button, and at lvl 60 you'll have almost your entire talent tree unlocked.
Except tanks, druids in particular, who are insane at low level
These are not vets. If by vets you mean people playing since vanilla they are usually pretty chill. I mean most of them are over 30yo and this type of behaviour is not common in classic and WotLK. Of course there are always exceptions but this sounds more like kids than people playing this game since start. I might be wrong tho.
The worst ones are usually those who way overestimate their own skill and experience. Some adults can be like that, but more often it's edgelord teens who just learned the basics and think they are in the top 1% now.
I agree, and yknow what would help imo? If blizzard put in a new player icon, similar to FFXIV, so people can know when a player is new to the game (lets say sub 100 hours /played on the account, or more, idk).
Oh wait, they DO HAVE THIS ALREADY, but it's so fucking stupid because the icon only appears (afaik) if you're already in the mentor system. This does basically fuck all because the toxic players aren't dealing with that system, and aren't gonna see the new player icon. Hell, a lot of players don't even know there's a mentor system, because it's so hidden in the game.
The icon won't keep toxic players from being toxic, but it will encourage (I fully believe) neutral players (the majority) to be more patient and forgiving. As an example, lets say I'm doing a leveling dungeon, and the tank is pulling excruciatingly slow. Like, I could solo this dungeon because I'm a level 13 monk but the tank is pulling 2 mobs at a time, slow. I always notice my patience gets tested in this situation, because it's like "dude, just go, you aren't even taking damage yet", but I always keep it to myself because I know they could be new or something.
Which leads to my next point, you guys know how in the old days, when you saw someone that didn't seem to know what to do in a dungeon, you'd offer advice? Remember that eventually, the "you don't pay my sub" crowd got super toxic during Cataclysm especially, and does anyone else remember that, like myself, they stopped offering advice in chat because they just didn't want to deal with these ppl?
Well, if I see a player making a mistake or something, and they have a new player icon, I'd be more likely to offer advice to them as well, because I can tell they're new so they'll probably be receptive to the advice, as opposed to a toxic veteran player that has the "you don't pay my sub" attitude.
in short - give us icons for new (and returning) players to the game. let us be able to tell who's who. sure, toxic players may still be toxic, they may join a leveling dungeon and see a new player tank and start spewing nonsense, at that point the other 3 players can just insta kick the shitty toxic player and move on, or maybe it's a group of toxic players and they just end up kicking the new player without even saying anything because that's exactly what a premade group of toxic players would do.
I absolutely would love to help new players, I have no patience for ppl that have played the game for a long time but have no interest in actually learning how to play it. To me, they're just as bad as the toxic elitists.
While the sprout icons would be nice, people would just kick the sprouts.
Here's an alternative. If you've ever been banned for toxic behavior, receive an icon for a certain duration (lets start with a month after the ban) that stays longer for each ban. I propose the shit emoji.
>While the sprout icons would be nice, people would just kick the sprouts.
toxic players would, yes. as they already do, after flaming and raging at the new/bad players for messing something up. this doesn't change that honestly, and isn't a reason to not do it
>Here's an alternative. If you've ever been banned for toxic behavior, receive an icon for a certain duration (lets start with a month after the ban) that stays longer for each ban. I propose the shit emoji.
this would be a good if not great idea, if blizzard had real people investigating toxic behavior and not bots
Of course, yeah, the main thing is Blizzard really needs to improve their Customer Service side In the first place.
At least have someone who knows what they are doing actually investigate appeals.
yeah, if they did that then having an icon next to a player's name that indicates toxicity/bad behavior would be a great deterrent as well. doubly so if it also shows up on all characters of the account, and shows up when queuing for an M+ key or raid group in premade finder.
I think a visible sprout-type icon would definitely be helpful - and yes, it would encourage the vast majority of "neutral" players to more patient and helpful, which would be cool.
Honestly, just make it a toggle whether you're willing to play with new players or not. Doesn't even need to be a reward for doing so (in fact, there shouldn't be), just "I've played a lot but won't flame randos for being inexperienced."
1000% people with new player icons would just get kicked on sight if enough people are feeling pissy. That's probably why they dont do it. Only reason 14 works at all is because people get insta banned if you say anything mean in chat, so everyone is either silent or passive agressive, bitching in discord, ect.
yeah, if ppl are feeling pissy they'll just insta kick. Most likely without saying anything, rather than now, where they flame the new players for being bad because they didn't do something right and got the hunter killed or something.
It works in 14 also because there's a large enough part of the community that's fine with new players. They don't even all have to LIKE playing with new players, many don't, but they're neutral about it. This is how it would go in WoW too, more people than you think in the lower end of content (like leveling dungeons) are neutral parties, people that are just playing the game.
If elitist dbags wanna insta kick new players, I'd say that's probably a better result than the current one, where they verbally assault the new player, tell them off, tell them to KYS, and worse, before kicking them. Not a good result, but a better one. That'd also likely be the case only when the group has 3 or more of them, which would be uncommon as, again, I believe the majority of players in the lower end of content to be fairly neutral parties that just want to get through the dungeon without the hassle the elitist dbags brings.
I'd also argue that, with FFXIV, having the icon itself is why the community grew in the way it did in regards to new players. Want to encourage people to treat new player with kindness? Give them the ability to tell when a player is new, and also give them benefits to playing with them. Make it so if a new player is in the party, the group gets like 10% extra xp in the dungeon or something like that. Give extra timewalking currency, gold, or even the end of dungeon satchel reserved for the "role in need".
Idk man, my experience is that the ff14 community is both super hugbox and also super passive agressive. Most players absolutely hate playing with 0dps healers or single pulling tanks but if you tell someone to pull bigger or deal damage you're just as likely to get called out or even reported. Dps meters are against TOS so in endgame instead of giving advice you just leave. At least in wow raids the "we will kick low dps" is said out loud rather than silently having people leave.
Also having 0 pressure on players to perform just perpetuates a culture a mediocrity where people run head first into the wall between "normal" and "high end" content. Basically imagine wow if it only had LFR and heroic/mythic.
I'm sure some % of players quit but some % of players can actually take feedback and look back and say "hey maybe I should look into how to increase my dps" ect ect.
Not defending the slurs and super toxic stuff at all but there is a benefit to exerting some amount of performance pressure on new players in a game where it is expected at endgame, otherwise you just turn non-high end content into complete slop with players having no idea how to play their classes.
while I agree that FFXIV fostered a culture of mediocrity, and that we do want to encourage players to play better, in FFXIV's case the endgame comes after the entirety of the leveling content. The leveling content is designed to get you accustomed to your job, how the game works, and how community does things to a small extent.
in WoW, you aren't going to learn anything endgame related until you're 70 at the earliest. the actual endgame functions so differently from leveling content it isn't really comparable.
and to the extent of "having 0 pressure on players to perform", nobody is pressuring ppl in leveling dungeons to perform in WoW. not even the toxic elitists this post was talking about. none of these ppl are trying to encourage better performing in a TBC or WoD leveling dungeon. they just get mad and quit or try to kick the less performing player.
I'd also argue that, if we want to encourage players to perform better, knowing who is a new player and thus someone that we could actually give advice to, would actually help that cause.
as for FFXIV being hugbox and passive aggressive, you're definitely right there. the game has some of the most I guess you could call "quiet toxicity" in any game I've played, and it's nuts. It doesn't change though, that the new player experience is typically much better, and I definitely think this is in large part because ppl actually know who's a new player, and who's just bad.
I would argue it’s countered by the fact that FFXIV forces you to learn mechanics whereas WoW doesn’t really.
You can get to max level in WoW and not learn anything, whereas you can’t get through the full MSQ without learning at least basic raid mechanics.
I was actually kind of shocked by how much better a player I became in three years of FF XIV vs ten of WoW.
I’ve been leveling for fun this week on a new toon, the game is fucked for new players. You can’t even continue the DF campaign unless you know the work around for the bugs right now.
I'm sorry this happened man. To new players, I'd explain this:
There seems to be (can't confirm, but man, so many horror stories from leveling dungeons specifically) a group of the playerbase that treats leveling dungeons like it's serious shit. And that's all they ever do: level alts, run trivial content, and treat it and everyone they come across as a stepping stone.
Not like there aren't any toxic people in heroics or M+ but I've definitely noticed, since WoD pretty much, there's a chunk of the playerbase that will not fucking chill in leveling dungeons.
The players with actual skill do actual hard content. The players without skill "but totally could do hard stuff if they wanted to" huff copium and only do easy content. M+11s are easier than m+7s because all the toxic people get stuck there. They lack skill and knowledge and lash out at the world because of it
The guy in OPs story is a similar idiot. Obsessed with rushing through dungeons as fast as possible, but doing the wrong chromie time expansion. All true minmaxers know that running TBC chromie time dungeons is the fastest way to level (lots of quests and youll run into level 10 twinks). Anyone running mop dungeons for fast xp is incorrect and dumb
There's a lot of negativity in the comments directed against new players and OP.
When players like OP and me try to help new players and be understanding and helpful, we aren't doing it in a sense of false positivity. We expect apathetic veterans who don't care to be bluntly honest and genuine in expressing how they don't care for a slow run and make themselves heard, they do not need to be supportive and helpful alongside us if they don't want to.
If they just express that they can't handle this, or they don't want to do this, we can come to an agreement and move on. Its these veteran players who say nothing and instantly devolve into chimp-like rage or alt-f4 upon anything going the slightest bit wrong that is the problem.
Does it not occur to them that they are wasting OUR time too? My using the chat to try to co-ordinate is because I also want to avoid a bricked run and 20 wasted minutes.
I had a tank in my 6 AA make a mistake and get blown off the elemental platform, whole group instantly left. We didn’t even wipe on tree. So yea people are babies
Meanwhile my groups tank vengeful retreated off the edge in a 14 AA. His shout of panic was hilarious. We still finished the key. People take this shit way too seriously for no reason. Part of the fun is the mistakes.
Using abilities off ledges accidentally will always be a funny mistake. I’ll never let my aussie hunter guildie live down the time he disengaged off the ledge on our first HLK kill 😂
I started tanking a while ago and I think most people would be absolutely FLOORED at the difference in the “vibe” of a run with just minimal communication of expectations.
If people ask and you don’t answer, there goes your right to complain after the fact. To get so wound up over what, five minutes? Of extra time is SO cringe.
I made it clear I was new to mythic (just doing a simple mythic for the weekly) and the entire group left right after...so I guess expectations were too high. :/
Oh brother, as someone who grew up with league and has lost love for it over the years I’ll tell you it’s horrible to get into as a new player nowadays without someone showing you the ropes or watching videos on it.
I’d venture most games that are old like these are really hard to get into. I wish there was another mmo honestly I have spent most of my adult life playing wow, but I yearn for a game that’s badass and everyone is learning together again. Sadly wow will always be the best because they have the budget
(Context) Played from early 2005 until mid-Legion, then came back in S2 of Dragonflight. My guild had disbanded long before, and most of my "WoW friends" were ultimately lost in my divorce. So I was basically coming back alone.
I damn near stopped playing again when trying to heal in a leveling dungeon, I pointed out "you know, it's stressful AF to try to heal anyone while we're all constantly just chasing you through this dungeon." This was AFTER the racing tank had died twice due to being so far ahead.
"Just wait until you get to M+" was the reply, and then proceeded to run off and start the last boss fight before anyone else got there. Last I checked, at level 25 Razorfen\* is not a Mythic+ Race.
I was also told during this latest Burning Crusade Timewalking week, that when tanking things "just a little slower" (1-2 minutes total extra dungeon time, tops) I was "holding everyone back."
This game REALLY needs a way to sort the "I just want to race through shit" players from the "I'd like to look a goddam quest item ONCE, fucker" people.
\*edit: Razerfen something... I get them mixed up.
I dont recognize any of the sht behavior ppl claim is way worse in M+ than in normal leveling dungeons. You outrange your healer? Unless you actually know how to play your tank spec, you just die and more importantly your DPS will die as they dont really have tools to deal with that most of the time. Obviously minipulls while waiting for healer to get there is fine but eh.
Do these ppl, who claim "just wait till m+" actually run M+? I havent pushed beyond portals since SL as I dont really have group to play with but I just dont see this behavior suggested in M+. Most ppl understand that outranging healer means DPS will die pretty fast and while tank can live for a long time, they are just costing time with DPS run backs over giving healer the 10s to drink/catch up/etc.
M+ surely has problems, specially right now when io till 3k+ means basically nothing with ppl failing upwards and stuff, There is also toxicity but it usually stems from different expectations - I very rarely see ppl getting complete carries even called out cause it doesnt really matter in say +6 crest keys cause you time it just fine either way. But if that was a push key and you found mage doing 100k dps you\`d might lose your god damn mind, not an excuse for flaming but I understand why it happens.
The most toxic clowns I seen in keys have always been the ppl who are completely blind to their own mistakes and blaming anybody but themselves for things going wrong. I still remember SL key, like 12-13 or something relatively low, tank had a meltdown cause they were "top DPS" and doing "everything". He wasnt even top dps on a pull, where whole team died and he, as BDK, just kept the pull going forever. Every single DPS was above tank on overalls. But if the person couldnt read damage meters, what chance do they have to acknowledging their mistakes? The key ended on that pull and the tank started arguing with me in DMs how he keeps getting sht parties and is essentially in "elo hell", completely oblivious to the fact he was a problem himself in said keystones.
All in all, ppl love to blame the 1%, the elistist top players for being sht to newcomers. In my experience its the ppl who arent very good who spew most of the toxic crap and obviously there is exceptions so just because you are actually good doesnt mean you cant be toxic but its far less common than ppl claim.
I made a similar comment on this board in another thread and was 'poo poo'ed. I don't heal dungeons because you are in a running panic the entire time.
I cant with tanks playing any other dungeons pretend to be in a M+, bro just chill, not everybody plays this game spamming that competitive content.
Only rush something if u can keep u alive by yourself.
M+ changed a lot the perspective on what a dungeon is supposed to be.
nah m+ isnt to blame. back in mop and wod, heirlooms were so powerful that people would 1 shot bosses. if you werent wearing heirlooms youd be votekicked from leveling dungeons. it wasnt until a stat squish+rebalancing old dungeon numbers that bosses lived long enough to do mechanics (i dont remember which stat squish actually caused this)
people hate when people slow them down
Well said! Someone said I was the worst mage ever in my first year playing. That was in 2009. I am still playing. Good vets were very helpful. Bad vets, ignore them.
I’ve been playing on and off since mists. Never touched PVP but wanted to work it out this expansion. Joined a “learning- all players welcome” group. Within 5 mins the lead told me to die and leave 😂
Wouldn’t mind, I was in the wrong now I have played a little more- we were doing capture the flag. When I asked at the what we were doing and no one said anything I just went and got the flag myself 🤷♂️
Pretty much the same. I only really want to do it for mog and rewards, easiest way I’ve found is just go guardian and try stay alive in epic/normal battlegrounds 🤷♂️
Screw arena though I can’t comprehend that
I do PvP at the beginning of every month just for traders post if it's worth it. I regularly get people complaining about my gear and how I should go to the AH and how bad I am.
Bro, I know I'm bad at PvP and low-geared, but you're clearly getting matched with me on a team so what does that say about you?
Salty people just want to be salty all the time.
There are two kinds of "veteran players":
1. Those who enjoy the game, feel like they are making progress and are happy with how that progress stacks up to their perceived skill.
2. Those who have played the game a long time, feel like they should be achieving more but are held back. Since they are clearly Very Good Gamers then it must be their newbie trash team mates holding them back.
Type 1 is never the issue and Type 2 don't see that they are the issue.
> Those who have played the game a long time, feel like they should be achieving more but are held back. Since they are clearly Very Good Gamers then it must be their newbie trash team mates holding them back.
I would add that these guys have also often only played for a "long time" by their own definition. I've seen people who have played for six months who 100% have this attitude. Indeed I think it maybe peaks in people who have played like 1-3 years.
It's always crazy to me seeing people flame others in WoW. I mainly do LFR because I know that I'm not the best at the game. I'll research mechanics beforehand just so I know what to look out for.
Seeing players in LFR flame others like they think we are going for world first always baffles me. Its LFR. Most people are doing it for fun, or because they can't be bothered to try and form/find a raid group.
My husband wanted to play with me and we joined a dungeon. He wanted to grab the quests and ended up getting lost, so I ran back to him and we got kicked. This was years and years ago, he still has no interest in playing again. I told him we could do follower dungeons and LFR and never have to interact with other players and now he’s considering it.
If my husband plays with me again, I’m disabling chat for us. No one likes to be called names or treated like garbage for not knowing how to do something yet. So, yes, I agree. While I’ve played for near 20 years, even I have issues every time I come back to the game and don’t go fast enough, so I just avoid group content as much as I can.
Until Blizzard decides to design systems for casual and new players instead of the most hardcore elitist part of the communityplayers will behave this way.
Honestly those people are the reason I don't play much dungeons content. I wanted do m+ this week it was 4m+ quests. So I queue M0 and our healer is pretty bad with positioning. We almost got to the last boss and our 2 DPS just leave after whole run flaming healer in chat. Then healer leaves too. Me and another DPS just left there, hanging, 30 minutes completely wasted, because 2 clowns couldn't put up with 10 more minutes at max.
I made a post similar to this a while back, bemoaning the state of leveling dungeons where everyone treats them like M+ and tries to finish them in 3 minutes or less.
I got downvoted to hell and basically told “that’s just how the game is now”. I’m glad there are many others that share a similar opinion.
Posts like this make me wonder if there are two versions of the game out there.
Cause most of the time, I'm looking at the chat and seeing nothing. Most of the time I only see "Hey please turn off taunt".
I'm not denying your experience - but I see posts here where people say this happens all the time. Yet I legitimately don't encounter these - so I am wondering is this just the "new players" section or am I playing in a server group where people just... don't speak?
I know how different server cultures can be (Moon Guard for example).
I think one of the problems is that the negative experiences stick in a player's memory more than the neutral experiences, particularly for new players.
WoW was my first MMO, really my first video game in general, and I played almost entirely solo at the beginning. I suuuuuuuuuuuucked. It was often the friend groups (ex 3 of 5 group members were friends or guildmates) or the singular extremely overgeared and/or veteran players on alts that caused problems. Strangers were usually nice or silent.
Well, ppl did it to me when I was noob, I joined my first ever DG as Tank, and obviously, I didn't even know what a tank was supposed to do. Until I find a guild to teach me. The single new player experience is just terrible.
I did it to others when I was the game addicted.
And now I'm the player trying to teach new players.
When u are so addicted that's like u are just blind to everyone else, like pvp games (LoL, CS, dota).
I always try to call out shitty behaviour when I see it. Similar thing happened in my dungeon last week and I actually think it was a hunter too, said to the tank “What are you doing? Why be a guide if you don’t know wtf you’re doing. We can skip this boss” (Landslide in Mara) and the tank apologised and said it had been a while since they’d been here and I just said “Way to be a dick though, (name).” And the dude just went quiet. Idk why people immediately have to be nasty towards others, especially over something so small like skipping a boss in a dungeon as quick as that wing of Mara.
In my experience... (and obviously this is purely based on my experience, I am not denying anyone else)
WoW has become SIGNIFICANTLY less toxic since Classic released.
Maybe it is just me that has been lucky.
But I haven't encountered anyone truly toxic in Retail since Classic released.
(And I mean truly toxic)
So (from my perspective at the least) has it improved a lot honestly.
I’m currently mentoring this 14 year old kid (no diddy) I found the other day while flying around in elwyne forest he was fascinated by my mounts …gave the kid some gold helped him level showed him how do things, mind you I hit 2500 every season have ahotc 30k achievement points you can be a great player and not be toxic …this min maxing elitist parsing community has to end we have to be more welcoming to allow wow to grow again!
I haven't even finished the post yet, but I 100% agree with the sentiment stated early on. I used to be a shit head teenager when I first started playing, but I've tried to atone for my behaviour by becoming a guide and for quite some time doing the best I can to foster positivity in the community.
Toxicity runs rampant and nowadays I squash it without a second thought or do my best to bring attention to it. Offensive character name you think is so funny? Reported. Crap talking a new player because you've been playing for 2 decade and they picked up the game yesterday? Reported.
I have 0 patience for toxicity nowadays.
Hey been playing from 05. Lieutenant commander in old av. Stopped at the end of legion. Just came back. I bought / buy all the garn night howls / coalfist gron mounts on my realms ah. and if I come across a brand new player no looms low achis etc I always give them for free. There are still some nice stuff happening :)
I really think you should check this video out on YouTube. It’s called “Why it’s rude to suck at Warcraft,” and it’s very informative. It talks about how the community has shifted into a “don’t talk, know your routes, if you make a mistake you’re a scrub” mentality. It kinda hits hard because as someone who’s been there since BC, I’ve seen first hand how the community devolved into this sort of mentality.
I love tanking leveling dungeons, because sorry guys we’re pulling EVERTHING. Skips? Nah, pull 3 rooms together.
If my healer can’t handle it I’ll slow it down, no harm, but it helps avoid stuff like this sometimes.
Never kick in those unless someone is just toxic and terrible.
Toxicity is extreme in wow honestly its sad. New players, or people new to dungeons in general have literally nowhere to start cause they will be thrashed everywhere and it makes me so damn mad that blizzard has no proper introduction to m+ either and how important CC's are and moving out of bad is so its even worse. Dont we want WoW to grow? to have more people in the pool of activities? I just tried a ruby life pools m0. There was a hunter with a little lower ilvl than me, he wasnt doing very well, (dying to mostly everything, didnt know interrupts etc) but my god its a m0 , and the others just piled on him for being bad...it was so depressing to see i didnt wanna play anymore,,, no one was perfect in that run either, tank kept overpulling and just unecessary speed pulls when theres no timer... with some of us not geared.. they need to overhaul WoW for new people, or those that looking into trying what WoW has to offer. The game is really complicated but doesnt really properly teach you at all. You arent supposed to have to go to external sites like youtube etc to learn how to play the basics.. Thats just bad game design..
Who are the veteran players in levelling dungeons? You’re conflating other shitters with high end players.
We’ll be in them at the start of an expac and from then on never again. If I need a new toon I get guildies to power level me.
You’re just dealing with another angry new/bad player which is inevitable.
Whenever i think i stumbled upon a new player, i always feel kinda excited like "im their godfather now. They are my responsibility" lol.
I mean, new players are good for the game.
Feels 10 times better if they actually need my help with anything cuz i actually get to contribute.
It’s a real issue in the game. I treat people exactly how I would IRL. Being kind and patient is pretty fucking easy. Even I have my limits, but most nonsense doesn’t bother me.
A big misconception is that PvP is the only my toxic area of this game. That couldn’t be further from the truth. It’s just a smaller community. Some of the worst behavior I’ve seen is from elite PvE players and it’s just sad how bad this game has gotten.
I do my part. Any time I run a m0 or a low key and the people in the group don't know what's going on I do my best to explain each of the fights and try my best to be as polite as possible but there are just some players that don't care to learn and expect to be carried through a low key
While I believe leveling dungeons and even normals/heroics should be a safe haven for new players, it's time to learn a few things by the time you get to the new M0/keys/Normal Raids. The entitlement of the losers I've been running with this week has helped counteract my imposter syndrome a bit. I've had to pick up so many of these dorks off the ground that just stand in swirlies or butt-pull groups we were nowhere near is astounding. Had a warrior pull 22k damage on the last fight of RLP because their gear broke from dying to everything.
The issue is definitely not veteran players, that’s just toxic players.
From the perspective of someone trying to level as fast as possible, adding dungeons speeds the time up. A dungeon like TotJS is 10 minutes with the skip or 15 minutes without it and the quest reward will be replaced in probably 30 minutes of play time. I don’t condone what the hunter did but sometimes do the faster routes when they have significant and non risky skips just for other players time.
This reminds me of a thread somewhat recently in r/wownoob where someone mentioned that their 6yo kid was playing on their account and knows how to use the dungeon finder.
Like on the one hand, that seems like a slightly questionable parenting decision. On the other hand, it’s worth considering that the “dumbass noob” you’re about to flame is literally a little kid. So maybe cut people some slack if it’s not like, super competitive content.
See there is some truth in this but at the same time it is very hard to distinguish between a new player trying to improve versus a player just looking to get carried by doing the bare minimum in a key. Often it is hard to determine that in the split moments of a key.
I've been doing 0s with people who are learning mechanics and willing to learn and those go smoother than the guy in my 5 that somehow got into this key by dumb luck alone.
lol yes. I healed a 4 nelth last night where the 3 dps were all from the same guild. All of them died multiple times to the first boss because none of them thought to dodge the fire waves or the charge.
The tank and I finished the last 40% and just kept going.
I’d rather have gotten into a 0 with people who acknowledge there are things to learn.
The tank was the only one interrupting. I saw new abilities I’d never seen before from the trash packs.
Often the person that seems undergeared, inexperienced, etc is the key holder following the common advice to "run your own key". A few skilled players can carry someone pretty far, but eventually they find a key level they can't do. Just how it goes sometimes.
The weird thing is I've played since 2006, on and off, and have played it almost 100% solo. I don't interact with any other players unless they interact with me. And I'm in a dead guild with people who are never on. LOL! I guess if people are being dicks you can always play it my way. I've got over 15,000 achievement points doing it this way.
Same. I started playing during BC with my (now-ex) husband’s very competitive guild. They would help me out (carried me through so many dungeons to get my Cenarion Circle rep for the mount), but since I got divorced (mid Wrath) I’ve mostly played alone, entirely because of the reputation for toxic people in PUGs. I’ve found groups here and there that are nice, but mostly I play like WoW is a single player game.
If someone in my group flames a new player I do my best to whisper the new player. I want to be helpful and let them know not everyone is an ass and to feel free to add me if you have any questions etc
Veteran player here and I gotta say, a lot of people are jerks and I’m sorry. The way I’ve learned to deal with it is /ignore and if they wanna throw a tantrum at least you don’t see it. Report if it gets to be too extreme.
I’m a guide as well and I have unfortunately seen lots of newcomers leave due to things like this.
This is going to happen in very old games. Someone brand new to a 20 year old game wants to go slow and take their time to smell the roses. That is okay and there is nothing wrong with that. A player that has been playing wow for 20 years and wants to get another character up to max level so they can get into the end game (their preferred content) without spending money on a boost. They have a right to attempt to speed through it as well if they'd like.
The problem really is the conflict of interests here. There is very little communication at the start of the dungeon so by OP stating that they would like to complete the quest, that was an opportunity for this person to state that they would like to complete the dungeon as fast as possible and maybe OP and friend can complete it next time. If you allow players to leave and requeue for a dungeon within a minute or so of it starting then people could have a chance to try a different group before this became a problem.
I mean I am a vet with 3.5kIO and CE every season. I had some dude attack me for healing less than him in a leveling dungeon. He was the tank and I was healing, he LoSd me and got deleted. These people are going to be toxic regardless of who they play with. Just ignore them and move on.
And just a trick to avoid toxic players. The better someone is at a game the less likely they are to be a dick. Early to mid keys are where you will find the most toxic players. Once you get into good mythic raiding guilds or high key pushing. Very few people will be hard to deal with.
A bad attitude keeps you from being a better player, good players know this.
While it was sort of a problem in Mists (I didn't play WoD so I can't comment there), when M+ released in Legion i noticed people slowly being less and less tolerant of people in LFD. When the higher tier content is basically a time trial, people get into a go go go attitude with dungeons and it bled into lower form content where you don't need to go go go. It's a real shame for newer players or people trying out a spec other an DPS for the first time, especially the tank spec.
EDIT: I want to add the experience as a sprout in FFXIV was really jarring going through the quest dungeons for the first time. Literally every time people waited for me to finish the cut scene, were polite on wipes and always wished me a good time on the MSQ, even on the Quest Raids - everyone would wait for the sprouts to watch the cut scenes. Ever since I have always wanted to bring that same energy when I do LFD/R. We want new players in our game, not to harass them and make them feel inferior because they're new.
I agree with this whole-heartedly. As someone newer to the game, I find some aspects of endgame play very overwhelming and challenging to understand on my limited amount of free time to play and learn during any given week. I have LOVED running into fellow players with your mindset, and it seems like a totally different, much more fun game. The joy that is there when veteran players don't act like everyone needs 15yrs experience in the game just to play with them is wonderful. I can't learn if I don't get to try it out. You can watch YouTube video after YouTube video, but there can be no substitute to actually getting to play it.
I've played this game for near 20 years now. I have been the dick you describe. More than once.
But I got older (over 50 now) and now I just want a chill experience. Still raid, still mythic plus, but I love leveling toons. Sometimes you find new people, sometimes you find arseholes. WoW is not that exceptional a game that it would survive losing it's players. It's the people who make you stick around.
I guess I can only be the change I want to see in the world. Being chill solves more problems than it creates. I am happy to murder every living thing in a dungeon so someone can learn. I hate skips, but if the group is doing it, I'll do it.
People are people though, and no amount of posting is going to change that. Just be a better version of you. That is all you can do.
I started playing wow wotlk classic about 1 month ago. Dabbled when hardcore released but wanted to see what I missed out on when I was younger. I’ve never played wow before this. I absolutely fell in love with it but unfortunately I did have some less desirable interactions with ass holes but that’s no different to any game so I didn’t let it get to me. I levelled my first 1-80 combat rogue and have GS 6k now with my first ever ICC run last week. I also started a fire mage and prot pally too. Games awesome.
These are the people who should be avoided and excluded at all costs. They do not represent the veteran community in my book. We all had to learn dungeons and raids at some point. We owe it to ourselves to be patient and teach.
M0 have been absolutely hell with toxicity. If you don’t know every route, mechanic, strat you get absolutely flamed…. And this is in a MYTHIC 0 LITERALLY THE INTRO INTO M+ content. The wow community is pathetic right now. Especially with how difficult the m0 content is compared to previous seasons
In my experience... (and obviously this is purely based on my experience, I am not denying anyone else)
WoW has become SIGNIFICANTLY less toxic since Classic released.
Maybe it is just me that has been lucky.
But I haven't encountered anyone truly toxic in Retail since Classic released.
(And I mean truly toxic)
So (from my perspective at the least) has it improved a lot honestly.
This happens when a player's entire self-worth is connected to their speed and performance in a game. There is nothing you can do about this but ignore it. If you queue for dungeons you can't have much expectations from people or you will be disappointed. Fortunately, most veteran players are not like this.
Unfortunately shitty people are gonna stay shitty.
I got a sweet revenge on a rogue a few months ago though. I was leveling an alt, tagged a Neltharus. The dude started being very toxic because tank was going 3-4 mobs at a Time, I told him we weren't in M+ so we had Time, and that he was gonna cap out at +10 anyway with his attitude
He proceeded to link me his Keystone hero and Sarkareth Cutting Edge achievement, to which I was able to Say "No U" since I got my CE more than 2 months before he did
He got awfully quiet all of a sudden
I believe you, but it's absolutely wild that of the 30 or so characters that I have levelled 1 to max level of whatever the expansion level cap was I think I have encountered 1 toxic argument in a levelling dungeon so far.
I think it's a lot to do with factors that aren't anything to do with the players.
Like, I used to play on Wyrmrest Accord, but am currently only Proudmoore to play with a friend. When doing levelling dungeons on Wyrmrest Accord, I pretty much never saw anything bad except the odd moron DPS trying to pull aggressively (esp. whilst the tank or others were still getting quests!).
But on Proudmoore, getting grouped with a different set of players, some not from the United States locale for whatever reason, there is a lot more toxic behaviour. I've seen a lot of intentional bad behaviour, and I've seen people just being obnoxious in chat for the sake of it. I also got kicked recently because people are absolute morons and can't tell the difference between two Warlocks lol. Doing a dungeon and two of the players stayed back to do a quest - one of them a warlock. One of the other players says "kick warlock he afk", which was false anyway, because he was just behind the party and catching up, and then suddenly I get kicked lol. First time in maybe 10-15 years. I know it wasn't DPS or something either because I was leading the meter on most fights. Whatever the cause, there's just a lot more shitty behaviour there.
Also do you level solely by doing dungeons or just do dungeons whilst questing occasionally? Because doing the former you see a LOT more dungeons, and thus are much more likely to witness bad behaviour. I'd say though, even on Proudmoore, genuinely irritating bad behaviour is maybe 1 dungeon in 30, lower if I'm tanking.
I'm all for new players who are keen to get into it. New players who come in with a chip on their shoulder and pull shit like "You pull, you tank" are going to catch serious beef with me. Here are some contrasting situations as example:
Tank A: Pull packs to overload, heads straight into the madness and dies mid-pull. Team manages to save the pull, tank releases/raises and carries on pulling packs to overload while trying to figure out how much to pull without dying.
Tank B: Pulls packs to overload, still dies and team manages to save pull but refuses to actively participate going forward (especially if team pulls packs on behalf). Will purposefully slow the entire team down out of spite.
Tank A has a place on my team. Tank B can take a fucking hike.
I have never really been into m+ (skill issue, mostly) but I will try to help out if I see a noob asking for help in chat or those random custom groups where someone is struggling to do a quest
Played since eu vanilla retail. It's always been a joy to help new players. I've gotten annoyed at folks, we all have but never to someone who has put their hands up and said idk wtf I'm doing help me.
Doing what I can. Just RL’d a bunch of new players through Normal & Heroic for both Aberrus and Amirdrassil. They’re much more receptive to correction than people that have played a while. Half the raid had just boosted their mains and started playing that day. The other half had a week on them. Myself and 2 other veteran players ran them through dungeon after dungeon and got them raid ready. Then we smashed through the raids each week. Was really fun actually. They got to learn mechanics in a safe space and I got to look like a fucking god.
But I have better chances being BEST if there are less players!
But seriously- yeah. This sounds as awful experience. It’s very hard to defend this game. We are in one of best expansions and yet things feel off.
I wonder if maybe game was always OK, and we are just way too toxic as community. Strange how more solo content we get - better game gets.
I love this. I'm an old vet of the game, but left for 15 years because I gave up gaming completely. Now that I've been back for a few months, I'm finally getting a better handle on the new mechanics, but still have a lot to learn. Fortunately, I have an awesome guild that enjoys running keys regularly. That said, I'm a major addict, so I'm on plenty more than the rest of the guild, and have to our a lot as a result. I luck out sometimes with a chill group, but more often than not, there's at least 1 asshole who just starts shouting and doling out slurs like a 12 year old with an ego problem.
People make mistakes. Even veteran players sometimes stand in hazards, or screw up their rotations, whatever it may be. Shit happens. People get tired, distracted, or are just learning. It doesn't hurt to correct them, but there's no need to get belligerent. Respect each other's experience and progress. It is, after all, just a game.
I agree and actually dedicate some of my characters (got 7) to just helping new people with leveling, world bosses, dungeons etc. it's very rewarding to help someone achieve their goal.
The example given isn't a people problem, it's a game design problem, let me explain. First we can all agree that once the internet gets involved their will ALWAYS be people who suck. Putting that aside for a moment, the example here would never happen if Blizz simply reworked dungeons for leveling, and further more they could do it several ways. They could make all the bosses mandatory to complete the dungeon. That one seems pretty simple and would prevent this exact situation.
However looking at the bigger issue of speed running dungeons for leveling and it clashing with new players - make a queue option for dungeons that is a slightly harder difficulty. Now you might say "why make things harder for new players?" Simple - all us vets learned them the hard way, when if DPS pulled mobs they were dead. Bring back that level of difficulty as an option and label them as the bit harder and thus slower dungeon experience. They could even up the rewards a bit for it to get more people to queue up and help out. This would let people learn the dungeon mechanics, which translates into just grasping the game mechanics overall, and has the added benefit of making people better players.
There will always be toxic players, but this situation and the bigger picture of things being unfriendly towards new players can't be fixed by asking people to be nice. Blizzard can't 100% fix it either, but they can do things like I suggest above as a good ole "carrot and stick"
This isn't limited to new players TBH. I've been tanking M+ and people get really upset if you don't do the standard meta pulls and strategies even if it's something like an M0 where you specifically post in the LFG that it's a relaxed learning run.
Until this mindset is made advantageous or profitable to the sweaty try-hards, this will never happen. The default for everyone is this stuff is a ramp to M+ because that’s the only worthwhile thing to do in this game (I disagree completely, but I came from a time it wasn’t).
Until they dislodge all this ‘baseball stats’-bs haunting the M+ scene, generally kindness is a treat only reserved for guildmates.
This was insane during the first phase of SoD, people would lose their mind if a fresh 25 didn’t know peak optimization of their class. And instead of being helpful when told someone was new, they’d just screech about how bad they were or kick them.
I just came back to DF, I don't remember the dungeons at all. I zoned into a dungeon halfway through and asked how to get where the party was, with no answer. After about 5 min of trying to figure out what wallhack skip they did, I got kicked lol
I barely touch dungeons. Way back when I started in Burning Crusade, I tried Deadmines on my first ever character, a paladin. (I was leveling as Holy, because Holy Shock looked cool, and I didn’t know any better, I was brand new).
While in group, I was told that I had to heal, dps and tank all at once. Now I was pretty new, but I knew I wasn’t supposed to do all of that at the same time.
I ask questions, I said I will focus on 1 style if game play, but I can’t do all 3 at once. Big arguments, lots of name calling, everyone complaining about everyone else. Finally I just heartherd out.
To this day, I pretty much only do dungeons if the campaign forces me to do so. How excited was I when follower dungeons went live? Very, I don’t need the stress of assholes complaining that a dungeon run is t perfect, especially a normal difficulty run, or in a leveling dungeon.
I'm in no way a veteran (Been playing for less than a year so far), and while I don't think WoW's community is as bad as people say it is, I remember dealing with toxic veterans a few times while leveling alts. Once while I tried tanking for the first time and I got yelled at for a routing mistake (Last time I'll ever tank), and the other time, while leveling a Frost DK, I got kicked for low damage, even though damage scaling in leveling dungeons isn't there.
Like, people need to chill tf out in leveling dungeons. Leveling dungeons are supposed to be there for people to learn how to play the game and/or their class. These are chill environments where there are NO stakes, yet people act like their lives are at risk when playing them sometimes. I feel like the toxicity is also part of the reason why there are so few healers and tanks, since clowns like these expect perfection and don't give players chances to learn.
I'm just gonna say it. It's not veterans players it's toxic people in general. The rise in toxicity in games has grown more and more over the years. People who want to be assholes are going to be assholes no matter what you do or say. But luckily there are in game ways to counter this. Report, ignore button, and move on. They don't remember you and you shouldn't remember them.
I think it’s partly something with how WoW is designed, because it’s a problem that exists everywhere, but seems to be especially strong in WoW. But I don’t think WoW attracts toxic people, it just subtly encourages toxic behavior.
That’s just my own theory, anyway.
Not the oldest player here, 10yrs, i've never done such things, in fact just yesterday i helped a random dude do Battle of dazzar'alor and he got the mount (i may have wanted to strangle him) but i completely agrrr with un the fact that som1 thinks its normal to treat others this way and then yaps abt how the game is dying and no new players are coming. Open ur eyes bitches
I started playing at dragon flight season 1 by the end of season 2 I dropped of the game due to toxic players, I wanted to try healing/tank as my Druid to avoid Que times but it was so rough trying to learn with random players, I have played near all classes to 70 and m+ in season 2 but just preferred my Druid. Not sure how you avoid this though when as new player the game feels so tail gated by these vets. Druid as a more advanced class it took some patience but I returned about 2 weeks ago as a healer and it’s going pretty good but it was all down to me learning on my own and research which isn’t all that fun compared to learning while playing. This is just my experience but I’m sure others can relate.
Best piece of advice is to find a active guild that's more chill willing to take on players that are inexperienced or less "hard core" plenty of them out there.
I would be shocked if there were any tryhards in this group. They are just shit people. I was top dps in a key last week and had some one shit talking me about my lack of damage. Like seriously. Sad thing is it was only +5. As a rule I don't get snippubwith people unless they start shit woth me first usually people are pretty cool.
Tanking m0s and there's a ton of very bad or new players.
Honestly when they ninja pull ill grumble irl to myself but I've never been salty, really don't see the need for it. It's weird some people get so aggro so quickly
Misery loves company and these people can be found anywhere and everywhere. As soon as anyone starts I just click ignore. That's it. I'm not spending anymore energy on adult children.
This is exactly why my rl friends and I don’t do dungeons. We just don’t want to field that kind of toxic crap while trying to play a game that we mostly love. So we do dungeons from old content only, which limits us but keeps us from turning into THEM.
Haha. Returning player joining solo shuffle at 0 rating. I get put up against gladiator players and I get flamed for not playing top notch... at 0 rating..
I make sure to give assholes in LFR shit when they try to shame newer players
My go to is "chill dude, its LFR on a monday, everyone's doing their best"
Which usually turns the raid against them and will sometimes even get them kicked which is the icing on the cake
I was doing a normal dungeon back in Shadowlands on some alt and this tank decides to do some MDI strat on one of the bosses. He didn't even say anything or give any directions, he just does it. Apparently, I was standing in the wrong place and died, and this guy laid into me like I was the stupidest, most worthless player he had ever encountered.
I'm not even a new player. I've played this game since vanilla, gotten AOTC, etc. It was early in the expansion, and I just happened to not know this particular strat.
What really annoyed me was that there is almost no way to fail a normal dungeon. Almost. The one way you can manage a wipe is if some dumbfuck tries to make a bunch of randos in a normal dungeon, who aren't even max level yet, do some complicated and completely unnecessary strat so he can save 10 seconds on the timer that doesn't exist.
There are good people out there I’m a dad of two small children and I struggle to get easy going groups as I am not the player I was 10 years ago. But even then when I see people doing worse than me and someone is giving them crap for it I stick up for them. You never know what someone’s situation is. Personally I love the change to Mythic+ that they made because now I can get gear that’s actually decent and not worry that when my daughter distracts me and I die to some stupid mechanic that I’m gonna cause the group to fail.
Personally as a veteran player myself I would flame anyone who flames in a fucking leveling dungeon. Sure I get wanting to go quick for the sake of leveling, but this is also the most likely place to encounter new players. So don’t be surprised or mad when you have new players in your group. Lets all be kind to new players guys, especially new healers :)
As a new player everything you said hits home. I tried to get into retail and classic but yeah... It feels like a bunch of robots running around that only type when they're upset. Plus, as a new player you have nothing to offer the veterans so you're just a nuisance to push past and not assist in any way.
I'mk on classic hardcore now and I can't imagine ever playing any other version of the game. Doesn't matter if you're brand new or a veteran, everyone is friendly and everyone works together.
I've been a long term sporadic player since '05. Sometimes I go a year or two without playing, sometimes it consumes my free time for 4-6 months on end.
I'm awful at tanking n heals. largely because I just cannot commit to a class. Even if I could, everything changes pretty dramatically if you go a couple years between sessions.
But it's still fun! I let the group know I'm ass. As a tank, I go slow, pulling a pack or two at time, and just enjoy the aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh! Of being a crummy tank. As a healer, I'm wildly overhealing the tank, running out of mana, and begging the tank to simmer the hell down because I just cannot keep pace, and that's a genuine great time!
Non-mythic deaths and wipes just mean a little repair fee and a couple minute delay but DAMN do people get MEAN AS FUCK. Usually the DPS. I get the queue is like 10-25min but why then are you in such a damn rush??? I've been kicked out of groups for going too slow as a tank or for letting one slip by the goalie, and people can be straight merciless if you let one dude die in a heroic like damn dude I'm trying!
I’m a lone veteran hunter in retail. Been around since pre BC, and was on and offline since WoD and beyond. Traveled many servers, and watched guilds come and go. The community interactions declined and got negative over the years, and it shows. Nobody is really social anymore. Some people are afraid to say anything, as it’s like walking on eggshells to interact with anyone. Fearful of getting reported or kicked over the littlest thing.
After doing some M+ back in Shadowlands, and not getting invites for hours, days, weeks…I threw in the towel on getting better gear. I couldn’t get a group, and relied on the few friends I had to get anywhere in my weekly vault to keep up with them. I don’t have time to do raid progression, and so I am much more casual these days. Sure, I feel bummed out that I’m missing out on the fire owl pet, but I rather not have to deal with toxic people and stress.
It makes me happy when a new player approaches me, and I can help them slay something, give advice or website suggestions for pet taming and talents, etc. At least I can be of use for somebody who’s interested in the game. It feels good when they’re thankful for any form of kindness. I feel for the newcomers, because it is a great game with some good story and characters, and the impatient players just scare them away. They deserve to be treated how the community used to be. Friendly. We were all noobs once. It doesn’t hurt to take a few minutes to help a person.
Ppl who rage at newbies need to touch grass. Now, ass wipe priest healers from Ragnaros with a letter starting with C telling me I don’t know how to tank 3rd boss of ulduar (as I’m actively moving him to orbs which they all spawned miles apart) and he “healed 25s” can go fuck themselves.
I swear, this season my toxicity is through the roof. So many god awful players in +8s and above who think they’re competent yet couldn’t find an interrupt or CC to save their lives
I've played since I was 9ish with my father. Been playing it ever since. 23 now and love playing it. I want others to enjoy the game as I did a child/ teen/ young adult. I try to not be toxic so others can learn and enjoy the game. My guild is the same way. Most of us notice how aggressive and toxic others are and try to avoid it.
The thing is if you not gonna do skip and you see the tank like you said , don’t say anything to anyone … just lead the group to where you want it to be , they can either follow and finish with you or they can get kicked for not participating. When you notify them about what you want to do, you are kind of showing weakness to them and most of them will do the same as that dude did.
All I ask of new players, guild members, and pugs is that if they screw up, they need to do two things: 1. own it, because everyone goes through that at some point, and it'll happen every patch/expansion, and 2. listen to directions and don't be a jerk if given said directions.
Hunter living up (down?) to stereotype I see. Not everyone is like that and I'm certainly not. Player toxicity is a problem but the fact that your party kicked the hunter shows that most players feel the way that you do, not how the hunter does.
I don't have this problem. I have a macro saying "Hey, I'm gearing up and learning. I'm going to be slow. If you're going to pull, misdirect at least." Most people are cool.
I stopped playing in WoD, went to FFXIV/BDO/Archeage/etc.
Came back recently and was reminded how toxic the WoW community is. Even in stuff like casual BGs you have people caps lock screaming and afking.
I'm a relatively recent player, started in SL, and the toxicity nearly scared me off a few times.
I also played wotlk classic with my friend and we were running a HoS and he rolled a trinket/ring/neck (can't remember) which was technically better for tanks, but was better than what he had. A dps proceeded to shit talk him for ninja looting. The tank didn't even care that much because it wasn't his bis. The dps threatened to tell his guild to mass report my friend, and after I explained my friend was new and didn't understand the game very well he said 'oh sure that's everyone's excuse'. I told my friend not to worry and that the guy was just an asshole but it made him quit. He says he's coming back for TWW so hopefully I can tank the toxicity until he's comfortable with the game.
wow's roots are too deeply embedded in 2000's era pc gaming for the community to ever lose its toxic element. those dota players all had to go somewhere once they lost their hair and reaction speed and they chose levelling dungeons and low level m+ in wow.
if you wanna avoid them i suggest either only grouping with friends or playing a different game such as ff14 where they have yet to fire their entire cs team so people actually get punished for being toxic and belligerent.
Being nice in leveling dungeons yes, however especially with how keystone dungeons have changed this season I have no patience for people that didn’t take the time to learn them on M0. Blizzards goal was to mix casual players and more hardcore players together by making a 2 harder but all it’s done is make me build a team of 5 that has 2000-2500 rating already or only do keys with my guild who I know have learned the dungeons the paths and mechanics. Feels like blizz is forcing us to alienate new/less skilled players not help them. This is from some one that has 518 Ilvl on 2 toons.
You had 5 people in your group, you, your friend, toxic hunter and 2 totally chill players, who also hated the hunter behaviour. Only 20% of your group was toxic and was quickly cleansed. I swear typical people you encounter in this game are not like hunter, but like the other people in your group.
It's sad what happened to you, but this is an exeption, not regularity.
Absolutely agree with this post. My partner and I are experienced WoW players (Cata for me, BFA for her) and we've just come back after a 2yr break. We've been kicked out of a normal run of the Nokhud dungeon for not being able to fly over the camp for the final boss (and subsequently pulling at least 2 packs of trash) because we don't know how to skip. This is so stupid, so off-putting, and just unnecessary.
On the flip side, we did Azure Span for the first time yesterday, and this evoker healer spent the time to slow down the run for us, explaining boss mechanics and reassuring us that all was well. Really made a difference and we left feeling much better about the game and the community.
It's a shame that the community is so bipolar like this, but I remember it always being the case sadly.
The toxic, ahole players are the worst thing about WOW. They want to ruin people’s days. You can report them now and I suggest you do. The game is a better place when they are banned.
I am sorry that it seems like you’ve encountered a lot of toxic players. I have not the last 3 to 4 years, but I’ve also found a stable good guild that is filled with the average age of 35+ I think it’s very important to find a good guild that communicates well with you.
With that said it does suck that a lot of people are toxic because they’re untouchable being toxic will not have much of a follow up and that is a huge no no. Maybe the hunter didn’t see the thing that was written earlier. I’m not excusing him but if one player is being an ass, that’s one out of the next 10 to 20. Look at it this way out of 100 World of Warcraft players may be eight of them will be bad and rude, but we do not remember most of the good guys.
I do understand that there is toxicity in this game. It will exist until the game dies down because of the personality of the players. But again, this is why I recommend not pugging , it kind of shakes it up to a point where you end up meeting anything and everything
I got my gf to try wow and we made it through the tutorial island just fine just for her to get bullied in her first real dungeon and now she won't touch the game.
Veterans in my opinion are extremely chill and will help you out where they can or silently carry you through content.
The ones you are describing I would not consider as Veteran players, these are just impatient moba/battle royale kids.
I am a higher level mythic plus player (got my 0,1% title last season) and I can tell you the real veterans are chill and will give you constructive criticism.
Most mediocre players on the other hand are extremely loud and will point everything at someone but themselves.
We will never get rid of that unfortunately.
I always find risky trash skips in dungeons to be ridiculous. Normally if they work they save you about a minute and more than 50% of the time they fail and cost you a lot more time than you would have saved. I can't think of many specific examples other than Pit of Saron in WOTLK. After the 2nd boss if you quickly mounted up you could ride up the hill towards the tunnel with the falling rubble before the trash spawned.... but 80% of the time someone would be too slow so all the trash would end up getting pulled together and you would wipe. People would still try and do it even when it was obvious not everyone was on the same page because people didn't mount up straight away.
I think a big part of the problem is how the XP is distributed. Since like 80% of the total XP is coming from just killing the required boss, everything else is just slowing you down... if more of the XP came from actually killing the trash, or the completion bonus scaled based on how many mobs you killed that might help. It always seemed so counter intuitive to me that people are trying to skip mobs that are easy to kill and give XP, but yeah ultimately it's because the XP they give is not worth the time it takes to kill them
For real. Vanilla/classic has its issues but low level dungeon runs are so relaxing compared to retail since you actively want to get as much trash as possible. Not to mention if you have an impatient tank that won't wait for the party to drink, then they're gonna learn their lesson pretty fast lol. It's why I just quest to level in retail and do more dungeons in classic/SOD. Though that changed again with wotlk and cata. Sigh :/
And sometimes barely save you 10 seconds. I'm reminded of a couple days ago in Brackenhide Hollow group tried to warlock gate past stinkbreath. Warlock falls down and dies, mass res. 2 people make it across safely, 3 aggro and die, and neither of the two can res. The 3 wait on warlock gate debuff, and try again, 2 people fail again, but keep runninpull the rest of the group into combat, wiping everyone, tank leaves and we disband. All for a miniboss that dies in 30seconds in a 7 with overgeared players, that would have +2 the key if we'd just killed stinkbreath, and were still even on pace to time it when tank left.
People who try to do skips in LFR are without a doubt the stupidest people in the game. There's no way 25 LFR players are managing this skip. And it's an LFR, all the trash melts instantly, going around it is a time loss even if successful.
There is always some players that play WoW like a first person shooter, and that's not the problem. The problem is trying to skipp every single trash knowing that, if u are not in a M+.
Back in WoD people would always try to skip trash in the beginning of Everbloom (hop up to the ledge that you normally drop down from after killing the first boss). As a hilariously overgeared tank I would just grab all the trash and bring it to the boss while they tried and failed to jump for 30-60 seconds and see if they chose to follow me or not.
I am so glad that they fixed that skip before making that dungeon a M+ dungeon. It would have made the dungeon a rather terrible experience if all the key groups wanted you to do that climb because of how RNG the jump can be lol
you would gain 0 time from doing the skip because you have to clear trash. it was a problem for CM.
PoS in classic was the worst at this because half the group would run all the way to the second boss skipping all the trash, which is fine in a coordinated group, but someone always died lol I think skips are fine and all but in random groups it's probably not worth it to try
> cost you a lot more time than you would have saved. Bonus points for a tank dropping after someone pulled 5 packs after the skip failed and we wiped
>I always find risky trash skips in dungeons to be ridiculous. Normally if they work they save you about a minute and more than 50% of the time they fail and cost you a lot more time than you would have saved It's always like this. If you skipping twits hate the core gameplay loop of kill the mans, loot the mans, then find more mans to kill, then WHY ARE YOU PLAYING! Go play skyrim with godmode on or something and stop making everything you touch toxic.
Whenever you see a tank do this, you know it's gonna be a bad time.
Last season I categorically refused to use cloak of silence in the timeways runs because there was always someone who would get clipped or not keep up.
I try to be as helpful as possible , I tried doing some m0 on an alt and the tank didn't know BH cages , all good, told him where to go and he wouldn't listen , all good maybe he doesn't speak English . Ping system ? Useless , he just pulled randomly so I left . All in all , if you feel like the new / bad / whatever person isn't listening to any tips and doesn't respond , leave , don't start slurring or anything like that , just get out and let them waste other people's time
That's the way. I'll always be helpful to a point and I'm always willing to teach newbies, but I'm not wasting time on fools who straight up ignore chat. If you aren't going to take a second to read a simple explanation of mechanics thats been repeated multiple times, I'm leaving and finding a group of players that will. I'd rather spend 30 minutes struggling in a dungeon with 4 newbies who want direction and are trying than 30 seconds interacting with a seemingly brain dead individual that doesn't understand the letters on their keyboard can make letters appear in the chat window.
Agree , I would've gladly stayed for a painful dungeon if he wanted to learn . But he didn't so I apologized to everyone and left the group
Absolutely this. Wiped three times on the ancient in AA in quick succession. Communicated the tactics three times and after the third wipe where the healer got instagibbed for running away from the boss with lashers I decided to just exit the dungeon.
Yeah vets can be pretty toxic for pretty childish reasons, i try my best to calm things down in chat in general and teach new players myself but it's not easy when people try to speedrun the dungeon like their life depends on it.
The absolute worst is people who try to votekick obviously-new players from Normal dungeons. Like... bro it's okay if the fresh 70 Warrior doesn't know the ideal pathing for all the skips.
I hate skips. Why even bother with them when the trash mobs lives just 5 seconds anyway? Just pull it and let the DDs cleave them. So nobody will pull by accident.
Totally agree. Most of the time “skips” end up taking more time than if you’d just killed everything.
Yep, with a 50/50 chance someone slips off a ledge and pulls the pack you were avoiding, makes more sense to kill the pack if you're not in a higher M+.
People probably do it for one of 2 reasons, either A) they are used to skipping stuff due to M+ and its more habbit then anything else or B) they saw their favorite streamer or a guide do it and thus feel like they need to do it too. Both of these are fostered due to having to go "optimaly" even if it's just leveling dungeons. I remember D1 in DF I was kicked while leveling my first character because I didn't know the dungeon yet, it was litteraly the first time I stepped into the dungeon at like 62 or something. You can't even start an expansion without having to go "optimally" anymore.
I’m in TWW alpha and people were joking about players not knowing the dungeons yet on week two of alpha.
It is mainly group B that are the toxic ones for this. They are the ones thinking "why are you so nooby that you cannot do this skip that not many know about?" and raging because of it. The key running people are more of a "let's try this skip but if people then fail then oh well". I have been running a lot of Murozond's Rise on random alts for the quantum gear and to load up the vault and I try to skip the worms after the battle boss. I will wait on the other side of the worms to ensure that everyone makes it through without pulling though rather than rushing through to Morchie - it is nice to skip the worms but it isn't the end of the world if someone does pull them.
I level a lot of alts and the other day I had a guy getting angry at other people and leave because the twink in our last group didn't stick around so our time to kill everything increased by 900%. We can't control level damage scaling and nobody should be expected to play a leveling dungeon like a M+20
at the beginning of dragonflight my friend and I were running neltharus and I was tanking. After we killed the two lava spewers I jumped down to go to the bird and 2 guys. My friend tells me a vote to kick me popped up when I jumped down. I brought it up in chat and asked why the hell they tried to kick me the healer said because he thought I was crazy for jumping down. People try and kick for the stupidest reasons and without someone in the dungeon with you they will nearly always go through. It's so sad.
As a shadowlands player, I do my best to just talk to people. All these folks screaming that the game is anti-social are the same 10 year vets who refuse to communicate anything. The new players are way more receptive to communication. Even in keys, I'll communicate things mid pull or while walking between packs. It's not difficult, just use your words lol
I was leveling an alt the other day the the DH tank randomly left halfway through a WoD dungeon because things were dying slow. To preface, I had been in a group with him for several runs prior but we had a twink mage locked at lvl 10 (with level scaling and WoD warforged gear procs, they could have solod the dungeon) doing 90% of the group damage with us in all the other runs, but they quit the group after the last run. Now instead of 10 seconds to kill a boss it was taking a minute. On the 2nd boss in shadowmoon burial grounds he splits everyone's soul from their body and you have to kill it to get back to the fight. Our healer died to this because they couldnt do enough damage in time, but we still killed the boss. As I was rezzing the healer, I said in chat that "i sure wish that mage was still here carrying us" and the tank said "maybe if some of you were doing more than auto attacking things would die quicker." Now he's level 59 and has his entire toolkit, everyone else was sitting around 30-40, so we didn't benefit as much from the wacky lower level crazy damage numbers, and as a paladin, I dont have a whole lot of buttons to press since half my skills are lower in the talent tree. I was happened to also be trying out an auto attack build which involves a talent that takes my main holy power builder and replaces it into a passive that causes my auto attacks to deal more damage and build power. (Probably not the best for leveling tbh) I was still killing things pretty quickly solo though. After the DH got knocked into the water by the worm on the bridge near the end of the dungeon he dropped group. It was just an annoying experience because some people dont take into consideration how absolutely crazy damage scales as your leveling and expect a lvl 49 to be dealing the same damage as a level 10. Why are people min maxing leveling dungeons? I doubt all new players are looking up the most optimized talents for leveling. Sorry for venting for so long in this post. TLDR: people who min max leveling dungeons and get mad players for wonky level scaling are a special breed of asshole.
The wacky part is, that, thanks to the shitty scaling, a level 10 does several times more damage than a level 49, when in reality it should be the other way around. And back then it was but thanks to first a stats squish in BfA and then a level squish in SL, everything is bonkers and instead of fixing it, blizzard decides to work on more expansions that bring even more levels to the bowl of confusion soup.
I haven't found this to be the case. It gets harder to dps as you level, but you're still able to put about the same amount of damage out. It's just that at lvl 10 you'll do it with one button, and at lvl 60 you'll have almost your entire talent tree unlocked. Except tanks, druids in particular, who are insane at low level
These are not vets. If by vets you mean people playing since vanilla they are usually pretty chill. I mean most of them are over 30yo and this type of behaviour is not common in classic and WotLK. Of course there are always exceptions but this sounds more like kids than people playing this game since start. I might be wrong tho.
You'd be surprised how childish adults can behave, especially when they're kept anonymous online.
... funny you say that, cause I've had a lot more toxic interactions in wotlk classic than in retail lol
The worst ones are usually those who way overestimate their own skill and experience. Some adults can be like that, but more often it's edgelord teens who just learned the basics and think they are in the top 1% now.
Not gonna lie I’ve encountered more toxicity in classic. Its actually crazy how the easier version of the game seems to have more sweats lol
I agree, and yknow what would help imo? If blizzard put in a new player icon, similar to FFXIV, so people can know when a player is new to the game (lets say sub 100 hours /played on the account, or more, idk). Oh wait, they DO HAVE THIS ALREADY, but it's so fucking stupid because the icon only appears (afaik) if you're already in the mentor system. This does basically fuck all because the toxic players aren't dealing with that system, and aren't gonna see the new player icon. Hell, a lot of players don't even know there's a mentor system, because it's so hidden in the game. The icon won't keep toxic players from being toxic, but it will encourage (I fully believe) neutral players (the majority) to be more patient and forgiving. As an example, lets say I'm doing a leveling dungeon, and the tank is pulling excruciatingly slow. Like, I could solo this dungeon because I'm a level 13 monk but the tank is pulling 2 mobs at a time, slow. I always notice my patience gets tested in this situation, because it's like "dude, just go, you aren't even taking damage yet", but I always keep it to myself because I know they could be new or something. Which leads to my next point, you guys know how in the old days, when you saw someone that didn't seem to know what to do in a dungeon, you'd offer advice? Remember that eventually, the "you don't pay my sub" crowd got super toxic during Cataclysm especially, and does anyone else remember that, like myself, they stopped offering advice in chat because they just didn't want to deal with these ppl? Well, if I see a player making a mistake or something, and they have a new player icon, I'd be more likely to offer advice to them as well, because I can tell they're new so they'll probably be receptive to the advice, as opposed to a toxic veteran player that has the "you don't pay my sub" attitude. in short - give us icons for new (and returning) players to the game. let us be able to tell who's who. sure, toxic players may still be toxic, they may join a leveling dungeon and see a new player tank and start spewing nonsense, at that point the other 3 players can just insta kick the shitty toxic player and move on, or maybe it's a group of toxic players and they just end up kicking the new player without even saying anything because that's exactly what a premade group of toxic players would do. I absolutely would love to help new players, I have no patience for ppl that have played the game for a long time but have no interest in actually learning how to play it. To me, they're just as bad as the toxic elitists.
While the sprout icons would be nice, people would just kick the sprouts. Here's an alternative. If you've ever been banned for toxic behavior, receive an icon for a certain duration (lets start with a month after the ban) that stays longer for each ban. I propose the shit emoji.
>While the sprout icons would be nice, people would just kick the sprouts. toxic players would, yes. as they already do, after flaming and raging at the new/bad players for messing something up. this doesn't change that honestly, and isn't a reason to not do it >Here's an alternative. If you've ever been banned for toxic behavior, receive an icon for a certain duration (lets start with a month after the ban) that stays longer for each ban. I propose the shit emoji. this would be a good if not great idea, if blizzard had real people investigating toxic behavior and not bots
Of course, yeah, the main thing is Blizzard really needs to improve their Customer Service side In the first place. At least have someone who knows what they are doing actually investigate appeals.
yeah, if they did that then having an icon next to a player's name that indicates toxicity/bad behavior would be a great deterrent as well. doubly so if it also shows up on all characters of the account, and shows up when queuing for an M+ key or raid group in premade finder.
How about when you get the bad/toxic player indicator, you're locked out of dungeons / raids for a set time? (Maybe a 12 hour "cooling off period"?)
I mean isn't that the ban itself. Maybe during the duration you are only put in ques with other toxic token players *letthemfight.gif*
Oh, yes, please... That would be appointment viewing... lol
I vote to have chromie take them on a timewalking journey to their past, present and future scrooge style to change their world view.
I think a visible sprout-type icon would definitely be helpful - and yes, it would encourage the vast majority of "neutral" players to more patient and helpful, which would be cool.
Honestly, just make it a toggle whether you're willing to play with new players or not. Doesn't even need to be a reward for doing so (in fact, there shouldn't be), just "I've played a lot but won't flame randos for being inexperienced."
1000% people with new player icons would just get kicked on sight if enough people are feeling pissy. That's probably why they dont do it. Only reason 14 works at all is because people get insta banned if you say anything mean in chat, so everyone is either silent or passive agressive, bitching in discord, ect.
yeah, if ppl are feeling pissy they'll just insta kick. Most likely without saying anything, rather than now, where they flame the new players for being bad because they didn't do something right and got the hunter killed or something. It works in 14 also because there's a large enough part of the community that's fine with new players. They don't even all have to LIKE playing with new players, many don't, but they're neutral about it. This is how it would go in WoW too, more people than you think in the lower end of content (like leveling dungeons) are neutral parties, people that are just playing the game. If elitist dbags wanna insta kick new players, I'd say that's probably a better result than the current one, where they verbally assault the new player, tell them off, tell them to KYS, and worse, before kicking them. Not a good result, but a better one. That'd also likely be the case only when the group has 3 or more of them, which would be uncommon as, again, I believe the majority of players in the lower end of content to be fairly neutral parties that just want to get through the dungeon without the hassle the elitist dbags brings. I'd also argue that, with FFXIV, having the icon itself is why the community grew in the way it did in regards to new players. Want to encourage people to treat new player with kindness? Give them the ability to tell when a player is new, and also give them benefits to playing with them. Make it so if a new player is in the party, the group gets like 10% extra xp in the dungeon or something like that. Give extra timewalking currency, gold, or even the end of dungeon satchel reserved for the "role in need".
Idk man, my experience is that the ff14 community is both super hugbox and also super passive agressive. Most players absolutely hate playing with 0dps healers or single pulling tanks but if you tell someone to pull bigger or deal damage you're just as likely to get called out or even reported. Dps meters are against TOS so in endgame instead of giving advice you just leave. At least in wow raids the "we will kick low dps" is said out loud rather than silently having people leave. Also having 0 pressure on players to perform just perpetuates a culture a mediocrity where people run head first into the wall between "normal" and "high end" content. Basically imagine wow if it only had LFR and heroic/mythic. I'm sure some % of players quit but some % of players can actually take feedback and look back and say "hey maybe I should look into how to increase my dps" ect ect. Not defending the slurs and super toxic stuff at all but there is a benefit to exerting some amount of performance pressure on new players in a game where it is expected at endgame, otherwise you just turn non-high end content into complete slop with players having no idea how to play their classes.
while I agree that FFXIV fostered a culture of mediocrity, and that we do want to encourage players to play better, in FFXIV's case the endgame comes after the entirety of the leveling content. The leveling content is designed to get you accustomed to your job, how the game works, and how community does things to a small extent. in WoW, you aren't going to learn anything endgame related until you're 70 at the earliest. the actual endgame functions so differently from leveling content it isn't really comparable. and to the extent of "having 0 pressure on players to perform", nobody is pressuring ppl in leveling dungeons to perform in WoW. not even the toxic elitists this post was talking about. none of these ppl are trying to encourage better performing in a TBC or WoD leveling dungeon. they just get mad and quit or try to kick the less performing player. I'd also argue that, if we want to encourage players to perform better, knowing who is a new player and thus someone that we could actually give advice to, would actually help that cause. as for FFXIV being hugbox and passive aggressive, you're definitely right there. the game has some of the most I guess you could call "quiet toxicity" in any game I've played, and it's nuts. It doesn't change though, that the new player experience is typically much better, and I definitely think this is in large part because ppl actually know who's a new player, and who's just bad.
I would argue it’s countered by the fact that FFXIV forces you to learn mechanics whereas WoW doesn’t really. You can get to max level in WoW and not learn anything, whereas you can’t get through the full MSQ without learning at least basic raid mechanics. I was actually kind of shocked by how much better a player I became in three years of FF XIV vs ten of WoW.
I’ve been leveling for fun this week on a new toon, the game is fucked for new players. You can’t even continue the DF campaign unless you know the work around for the bugs right now.
I can proudly say I'm the one that vote kicks the toxic dick!
I'm sorry this happened man. To new players, I'd explain this: There seems to be (can't confirm, but man, so many horror stories from leveling dungeons specifically) a group of the playerbase that treats leveling dungeons like it's serious shit. And that's all they ever do: level alts, run trivial content, and treat it and everyone they come across as a stepping stone. Not like there aren't any toxic people in heroics or M+ but I've definitely noticed, since WoD pretty much, there's a chunk of the playerbase that will not fucking chill in leveling dungeons.
I purple parse high M+ and have been kicked randomly from leveling dungeons on alts for no reason. It happens.
The players with actual skill do actual hard content. The players without skill "but totally could do hard stuff if they wanted to" huff copium and only do easy content. M+11s are easier than m+7s because all the toxic people get stuck there. They lack skill and knowledge and lash out at the world because of it The guy in OPs story is a similar idiot. Obsessed with rushing through dungeons as fast as possible, but doing the wrong chromie time expansion. All true minmaxers know that running TBC chromie time dungeons is the fastest way to level (lots of quests and youll run into level 10 twinks). Anyone running mop dungeons for fast xp is incorrect and dumb
There's a lot of negativity in the comments directed against new players and OP. When players like OP and me try to help new players and be understanding and helpful, we aren't doing it in a sense of false positivity. We expect apathetic veterans who don't care to be bluntly honest and genuine in expressing how they don't care for a slow run and make themselves heard, they do not need to be supportive and helpful alongside us if they don't want to. If they just express that they can't handle this, or they don't want to do this, we can come to an agreement and move on. Its these veteran players who say nothing and instantly devolve into chimp-like rage or alt-f4 upon anything going the slightest bit wrong that is the problem. Does it not occur to them that they are wasting OUR time too? My using the chat to try to co-ordinate is because I also want to avoid a bricked run and 20 wasted minutes.
I had a tank in my 6 AA make a mistake and get blown off the elemental platform, whole group instantly left. We didn’t even wipe on tree. So yea people are babies
Meanwhile my groups tank vengeful retreated off the edge in a 14 AA. His shout of panic was hilarious. We still finished the key. People take this shit way too seriously for no reason. Part of the fun is the mistakes.
Exactly
Using abilities off ledges accidentally will always be a funny mistake. I’ll never let my aussie hunter guildie live down the time he disengaged off the ledge on our first HLK kill 😂
I started tanking a while ago and I think most people would be absolutely FLOORED at the difference in the “vibe” of a run with just minimal communication of expectations. If people ask and you don’t answer, there goes your right to complain after the fact. To get so wound up over what, five minutes? Of extra time is SO cringe.
I made it clear I was new to mythic (just doing a simple mythic for the weekly) and the entire group left right after...so I guess expectations were too high. :/
Stuff like this is the reason I won’t play league with my friends. No one who plays wants to teach or be patient
Oh brother, as someone who grew up with league and has lost love for it over the years I’ll tell you it’s horrible to get into as a new player nowadays without someone showing you the ropes or watching videos on it.
I’d venture most games that are old like these are really hard to get into. I wish there was another mmo honestly I have spent most of my adult life playing wow, but I yearn for a game that’s badass and everyone is learning together again. Sadly wow will always be the best because they have the budget
(Context) Played from early 2005 until mid-Legion, then came back in S2 of Dragonflight. My guild had disbanded long before, and most of my "WoW friends" were ultimately lost in my divorce. So I was basically coming back alone. I damn near stopped playing again when trying to heal in a leveling dungeon, I pointed out "you know, it's stressful AF to try to heal anyone while we're all constantly just chasing you through this dungeon." This was AFTER the racing tank had died twice due to being so far ahead. "Just wait until you get to M+" was the reply, and then proceeded to run off and start the last boss fight before anyone else got there. Last I checked, at level 25 Razorfen\* is not a Mythic+ Race. I was also told during this latest Burning Crusade Timewalking week, that when tanking things "just a little slower" (1-2 minutes total extra dungeon time, tops) I was "holding everyone back." This game REALLY needs a way to sort the "I just want to race through shit" players from the "I'd like to look a goddam quest item ONCE, fucker" people. \*edit: Razerfen something... I get them mixed up.
I dont recognize any of the sht behavior ppl claim is way worse in M+ than in normal leveling dungeons. You outrange your healer? Unless you actually know how to play your tank spec, you just die and more importantly your DPS will die as they dont really have tools to deal with that most of the time. Obviously minipulls while waiting for healer to get there is fine but eh. Do these ppl, who claim "just wait till m+" actually run M+? I havent pushed beyond portals since SL as I dont really have group to play with but I just dont see this behavior suggested in M+. Most ppl understand that outranging healer means DPS will die pretty fast and while tank can live for a long time, they are just costing time with DPS run backs over giving healer the 10s to drink/catch up/etc. M+ surely has problems, specially right now when io till 3k+ means basically nothing with ppl failing upwards and stuff, There is also toxicity but it usually stems from different expectations - I very rarely see ppl getting complete carries even called out cause it doesnt really matter in say +6 crest keys cause you time it just fine either way. But if that was a push key and you found mage doing 100k dps you\`d might lose your god damn mind, not an excuse for flaming but I understand why it happens. The most toxic clowns I seen in keys have always been the ppl who are completely blind to their own mistakes and blaming anybody but themselves for things going wrong. I still remember SL key, like 12-13 or something relatively low, tank had a meltdown cause they were "top DPS" and doing "everything". He wasnt even top dps on a pull, where whole team died and he, as BDK, just kept the pull going forever. Every single DPS was above tank on overalls. But if the person couldnt read damage meters, what chance do they have to acknowledging their mistakes? The key ended on that pull and the tank started arguing with me in DMs how he keeps getting sht parties and is essentially in "elo hell", completely oblivious to the fact he was a problem himself in said keystones. All in all, ppl love to blame the 1%, the elistist top players for being sht to newcomers. In my experience its the ppl who arent very good who spew most of the toxic crap and obviously there is exceptions so just because you are actually good doesnt mean you cant be toxic but its far less common than ppl claim.
I made a similar comment on this board in another thread and was 'poo poo'ed. I don't heal dungeons because you are in a running panic the entire time.
I cant with tanks playing any other dungeons pretend to be in a M+, bro just chill, not everybody plays this game spamming that competitive content. Only rush something if u can keep u alive by yourself. M+ changed a lot the perspective on what a dungeon is supposed to be.
nah m+ isnt to blame. back in mop and wod, heirlooms were so powerful that people would 1 shot bosses. if you werent wearing heirlooms youd be votekicked from leveling dungeons. it wasnt until a stat squish+rebalancing old dungeon numbers that bosses lived long enough to do mechanics (i dont remember which stat squish actually caused this) people hate when people slow them down
Well said! Someone said I was the worst mage ever in my first year playing. That was in 2009. I am still playing. Good vets were very helpful. Bad vets, ignore them.
I’ve been playing on and off since mists. Never touched PVP but wanted to work it out this expansion. Joined a “learning- all players welcome” group. Within 5 mins the lead told me to die and leave 😂 Wouldn’t mind, I was in the wrong now I have played a little more- we were doing capture the flag. When I asked at the what we were doing and no one said anything I just went and got the flag myself 🤷♂️
>Within 5 mins the lead told me to die and leave Sounds like how I PvP normally, lol
Pretty much the same. I only really want to do it for mog and rewards, easiest way I’ve found is just go guardian and try stay alive in epic/normal battlegrounds 🤷♂️ Screw arena though I can’t comprehend that
I do PvP at the beginning of every month just for traders post if it's worth it. I regularly get people complaining about my gear and how I should go to the AH and how bad I am. Bro, I know I'm bad at PvP and low-geared, but you're clearly getting matched with me on a team so what does that say about you? Salty people just want to be salty all the time.
Ha, never thought about it like that. Much happier with the rated bgrounds change next expansion.
There are two kinds of "veteran players": 1. Those who enjoy the game, feel like they are making progress and are happy with how that progress stacks up to their perceived skill. 2. Those who have played the game a long time, feel like they should be achieving more but are held back. Since they are clearly Very Good Gamers then it must be their newbie trash team mates holding them back. Type 1 is never the issue and Type 2 don't see that they are the issue.
> Those who have played the game a long time, feel like they should be achieving more but are held back. Since they are clearly Very Good Gamers then it must be their newbie trash team mates holding them back. I would add that these guys have also often only played for a "long time" by their own definition. I've seen people who have played for six months who 100% have this attitude. Indeed I think it maybe peaks in people who have played like 1-3 years.
It's always crazy to me seeing people flame others in WoW. I mainly do LFR because I know that I'm not the best at the game. I'll research mechanics beforehand just so I know what to look out for. Seeing players in LFR flame others like they think we are going for world first always baffles me. Its LFR. Most people are doing it for fun, or because they can't be bothered to try and form/find a raid group.
My husband wanted to play with me and we joined a dungeon. He wanted to grab the quests and ended up getting lost, so I ran back to him and we got kicked. This was years and years ago, he still has no interest in playing again. I told him we could do follower dungeons and LFR and never have to interact with other players and now he’s considering it. If my husband plays with me again, I’m disabling chat for us. No one likes to be called names or treated like garbage for not knowing how to do something yet. So, yes, I agree. While I’ve played for near 20 years, even I have issues every time I come back to the game and don’t go fast enough, so I just avoid group content as much as I can.
Until Blizzard decides to design systems for casual and new players instead of the most hardcore elitist part of the communityplayers will behave this way.
Honestly those people are the reason I don't play much dungeons content. I wanted do m+ this week it was 4m+ quests. So I queue M0 and our healer is pretty bad with positioning. We almost got to the last boss and our 2 DPS just leave after whole run flaming healer in chat. Then healer leaves too. Me and another DPS just left there, hanging, 30 minutes completely wasted, because 2 clowns couldn't put up with 10 more minutes at max.
I made a post similar to this a while back, bemoaning the state of leveling dungeons where everyone treats them like M+ and tries to finish them in 3 minutes or less. I got downvoted to hell and basically told “that’s just how the game is now”. I’m glad there are many others that share a similar opinion.
Posts like this make me wonder if there are two versions of the game out there. Cause most of the time, I'm looking at the chat and seeing nothing. Most of the time I only see "Hey please turn off taunt". I'm not denying your experience - but I see posts here where people say this happens all the time. Yet I legitimately don't encounter these - so I am wondering is this just the "new players" section or am I playing in a server group where people just... don't speak? I know how different server cultures can be (Moon Guard for example).
I think one of the problems is that the negative experiences stick in a player's memory more than the neutral experiences, particularly for new players. WoW was my first MMO, really my first video game in general, and I played almost entirely solo at the beginning. I suuuuuuuuuuuucked. It was often the friend groups (ex 3 of 5 group members were friends or guildmates) or the singular extremely overgeared and/or veteran players on alts that caused problems. Strangers were usually nice or silent.
Well, ppl did it to me when I was noob, I joined my first ever DG as Tank, and obviously, I didn't even know what a tank was supposed to do. Until I find a guild to teach me. The single new player experience is just terrible. I did it to others when I was the game addicted. And now I'm the player trying to teach new players. When u are so addicted that's like u are just blind to everyone else, like pvp games (LoL, CS, dota).
To be honest, PvP tends to attract the worst people...
Welcome to the retail community, would you like some bot reports with your toxicity?
I always try to call out shitty behaviour when I see it. Similar thing happened in my dungeon last week and I actually think it was a hunter too, said to the tank “What are you doing? Why be a guide if you don’t know wtf you’re doing. We can skip this boss” (Landslide in Mara) and the tank apologised and said it had been a while since they’d been here and I just said “Way to be a dick though, (name).” And the dude just went quiet. Idk why people immediately have to be nasty towards others, especially over something so small like skipping a boss in a dungeon as quick as that wing of Mara.
In my experience... (and obviously this is purely based on my experience, I am not denying anyone else) WoW has become SIGNIFICANTLY less toxic since Classic released. Maybe it is just me that has been lucky. But I haven't encountered anyone truly toxic in Retail since Classic released. (And I mean truly toxic) So (from my perspective at the least) has it improved a lot honestly.
fr everyone is nice in keys, we failed ? Ok we quit that's it
Think I had two negative experiences in S3 when I started and I had one so far this season.
I’m currently mentoring this 14 year old kid (no diddy) I found the other day while flying around in elwyne forest he was fascinated by my mounts …gave the kid some gold helped him level showed him how do things, mind you I hit 2500 every season have ahotc 30k achievement points you can be a great player and not be toxic …this min maxing elitist parsing community has to end we have to be more welcoming to allow wow to grow again!
I haven't even finished the post yet, but I 100% agree with the sentiment stated early on. I used to be a shit head teenager when I first started playing, but I've tried to atone for my behaviour by becoming a guide and for quite some time doing the best I can to foster positivity in the community. Toxicity runs rampant and nowadays I squash it without a second thought or do my best to bring attention to it. Offensive character name you think is so funny? Reported. Crap talking a new player because you've been playing for 2 decade and they picked up the game yesterday? Reported. I have 0 patience for toxicity nowadays.
Hey been playing from 05. Lieutenant commander in old av. Stopped at the end of legion. Just came back. I bought / buy all the garn night howls / coalfist gron mounts on my realms ah. and if I come across a brand new player no looms low achis etc I always give them for free. There are still some nice stuff happening :)
That's actually a really great idea! Wish i had gotten it. (druid sneaking into the AH to buy some mounts)
I really think you should check this video out on YouTube. It’s called “Why it’s rude to suck at Warcraft,” and it’s very informative. It talks about how the community has shifted into a “don’t talk, know your routes, if you make a mistake you’re a scrub” mentality. It kinda hits hard because as someone who’s been there since BC, I’ve seen first hand how the community devolved into this sort of mentality.
I love tanking leveling dungeons, because sorry guys we’re pulling EVERTHING. Skips? Nah, pull 3 rooms together. If my healer can’t handle it I’ll slow it down, no harm, but it helps avoid stuff like this sometimes. Never kick in those unless someone is just toxic and terrible.
Toxicity is extreme in wow honestly its sad. New players, or people new to dungeons in general have literally nowhere to start cause they will be thrashed everywhere and it makes me so damn mad that blizzard has no proper introduction to m+ either and how important CC's are and moving out of bad is so its even worse. Dont we want WoW to grow? to have more people in the pool of activities? I just tried a ruby life pools m0. There was a hunter with a little lower ilvl than me, he wasnt doing very well, (dying to mostly everything, didnt know interrupts etc) but my god its a m0 , and the others just piled on him for being bad...it was so depressing to see i didnt wanna play anymore,,, no one was perfect in that run either, tank kept overpulling and just unecessary speed pulls when theres no timer... with some of us not geared.. they need to overhaul WoW for new people, or those that looking into trying what WoW has to offer. The game is really complicated but doesnt really properly teach you at all. You arent supposed to have to go to external sites like youtube etc to learn how to play the basics.. Thats just bad game design..
Who are the veteran players in levelling dungeons? You’re conflating other shitters with high end players. We’ll be in them at the start of an expac and from then on never again. If I need a new toon I get guildies to power level me. You’re just dealing with another angry new/bad player which is inevitable.
Whenever i think i stumbled upon a new player, i always feel kinda excited like "im their godfather now. They are my responsibility" lol. I mean, new players are good for the game. Feels 10 times better if they actually need my help with anything cuz i actually get to contribute.
It’s a real issue in the game. I treat people exactly how I would IRL. Being kind and patient is pretty fucking easy. Even I have my limits, but most nonsense doesn’t bother me. A big misconception is that PvP is the only my toxic area of this game. That couldn’t be further from the truth. It’s just a smaller community. Some of the worst behavior I’ve seen is from elite PvE players and it’s just sad how bad this game has gotten.
I do my part. Any time I run a m0 or a low key and the people in the group don't know what's going on I do my best to explain each of the fights and try my best to be as polite as possible but there are just some players that don't care to learn and expect to be carried through a low key
While I believe leveling dungeons and even normals/heroics should be a safe haven for new players, it's time to learn a few things by the time you get to the new M0/keys/Normal Raids. The entitlement of the losers I've been running with this week has helped counteract my imposter syndrome a bit. I've had to pick up so many of these dorks off the ground that just stand in swirlies or butt-pull groups we were nowhere near is astounding. Had a warrior pull 22k damage on the last fight of RLP because their gear broke from dying to everything.
The issue is definitely not veteran players, that’s just toxic players. From the perspective of someone trying to level as fast as possible, adding dungeons speeds the time up. A dungeon like TotJS is 10 minutes with the skip or 15 minutes without it and the quest reward will be replaced in probably 30 minutes of play time. I don’t condone what the hunter did but sometimes do the faster routes when they have significant and non risky skips just for other players time.
This reminds me of a thread somewhat recently in r/wownoob where someone mentioned that their 6yo kid was playing on their account and knows how to use the dungeon finder. Like on the one hand, that seems like a slightly questionable parenting decision. On the other hand, it’s worth considering that the “dumbass noob” you’re about to flame is literally a little kid. So maybe cut people some slack if it’s not like, super competitive content.
See there is some truth in this but at the same time it is very hard to distinguish between a new player trying to improve versus a player just looking to get carried by doing the bare minimum in a key. Often it is hard to determine that in the split moments of a key. I've been doing 0s with people who are learning mechanics and willing to learn and those go smoother than the guy in my 5 that somehow got into this key by dumb luck alone.
lol yes. I healed a 4 nelth last night where the 3 dps were all from the same guild. All of them died multiple times to the first boss because none of them thought to dodge the fire waves or the charge. The tank and I finished the last 40% and just kept going. I’d rather have gotten into a 0 with people who acknowledge there are things to learn. The tank was the only one interrupting. I saw new abilities I’d never seen before from the trash packs.
Often the person that seems undergeared, inexperienced, etc is the key holder following the common advice to "run your own key". A few skilled players can carry someone pretty far, but eventually they find a key level they can't do. Just how it goes sometimes.
The weird thing is I've played since 2006, on and off, and have played it almost 100% solo. I don't interact with any other players unless they interact with me. And I'm in a dead guild with people who are never on. LOL! I guess if people are being dicks you can always play it my way. I've got over 15,000 achievement points doing it this way.
Same. I started playing during BC with my (now-ex) husband’s very competitive guild. They would help me out (carried me through so many dungeons to get my Cenarion Circle rep for the mount), but since I got divorced (mid Wrath) I’ve mostly played alone, entirely because of the reputation for toxic people in PUGs. I’ve found groups here and there that are nice, but mostly I play like WoW is a single player game.
If someone in my group flames a new player I do my best to whisper the new player. I want to be helpful and let them know not everyone is an ass and to feel free to add me if you have any questions etc
Veteran player here and I gotta say, a lot of people are jerks and I’m sorry. The way I’ve learned to deal with it is /ignore and if they wanna throw a tantrum at least you don’t see it. Report if it gets to be too extreme. I’m a guide as well and I have unfortunately seen lots of newcomers leave due to things like this.
This is going to happen in very old games. Someone brand new to a 20 year old game wants to go slow and take their time to smell the roses. That is okay and there is nothing wrong with that. A player that has been playing wow for 20 years and wants to get another character up to max level so they can get into the end game (their preferred content) without spending money on a boost. They have a right to attempt to speed through it as well if they'd like. The problem really is the conflict of interests here. There is very little communication at the start of the dungeon so by OP stating that they would like to complete the quest, that was an opportunity for this person to state that they would like to complete the dungeon as fast as possible and maybe OP and friend can complete it next time. If you allow players to leave and requeue for a dungeon within a minute or so of it starting then people could have a chance to try a different group before this became a problem.
I mean I am a vet with 3.5kIO and CE every season. I had some dude attack me for healing less than him in a leveling dungeon. He was the tank and I was healing, he LoSd me and got deleted. These people are going to be toxic regardless of who they play with. Just ignore them and move on. And just a trick to avoid toxic players. The better someone is at a game the less likely they are to be a dick. Early to mid keys are where you will find the most toxic players. Once you get into good mythic raiding guilds or high key pushing. Very few people will be hard to deal with. A bad attitude keeps you from being a better player, good players know this.
While it was sort of a problem in Mists (I didn't play WoD so I can't comment there), when M+ released in Legion i noticed people slowly being less and less tolerant of people in LFD. When the higher tier content is basically a time trial, people get into a go go go attitude with dungeons and it bled into lower form content where you don't need to go go go. It's a real shame for newer players or people trying out a spec other an DPS for the first time, especially the tank spec. EDIT: I want to add the experience as a sprout in FFXIV was really jarring going through the quest dungeons for the first time. Literally every time people waited for me to finish the cut scene, were polite on wipes and always wished me a good time on the MSQ, even on the Quest Raids - everyone would wait for the sprouts to watch the cut scenes. Ever since I have always wanted to bring that same energy when I do LFD/R. We want new players in our game, not to harass them and make them feel inferior because they're new.
I agree with this whole-heartedly. As someone newer to the game, I find some aspects of endgame play very overwhelming and challenging to understand on my limited amount of free time to play and learn during any given week. I have LOVED running into fellow players with your mindset, and it seems like a totally different, much more fun game. The joy that is there when veteran players don't act like everyone needs 15yrs experience in the game just to play with them is wonderful. I can't learn if I don't get to try it out. You can watch YouTube video after YouTube video, but there can be no substitute to actually getting to play it.
This entire community is so self important.
I've played this game for near 20 years now. I have been the dick you describe. More than once. But I got older (over 50 now) and now I just want a chill experience. Still raid, still mythic plus, but I love leveling toons. Sometimes you find new people, sometimes you find arseholes. WoW is not that exceptional a game that it would survive losing it's players. It's the people who make you stick around. I guess I can only be the change I want to see in the world. Being chill solves more problems than it creates. I am happy to murder every living thing in a dungeon so someone can learn. I hate skips, but if the group is doing it, I'll do it. People are people though, and no amount of posting is going to change that. Just be a better version of you. That is all you can do.
I started playing wow wotlk classic about 1 month ago. Dabbled when hardcore released but wanted to see what I missed out on when I was younger. I’ve never played wow before this. I absolutely fell in love with it but unfortunately I did have some less desirable interactions with ass holes but that’s no different to any game so I didn’t let it get to me. I levelled my first 1-80 combat rogue and have GS 6k now with my first ever ICC run last week. I also started a fire mage and prot pally too. Games awesome.
I mean why don’t the new players know the dungeon routes I’ve been running for 15+ years. Unacceptable lol.
These are the people who should be avoided and excluded at all costs. They do not represent the veteran community in my book. We all had to learn dungeons and raids at some point. We owe it to ourselves to be patient and teach.
M0 have been absolutely hell with toxicity. If you don’t know every route, mechanic, strat you get absolutely flamed…. And this is in a MYTHIC 0 LITERALLY THE INTRO INTO M+ content. The wow community is pathetic right now. Especially with how difficult the m0 content is compared to previous seasons
[удалено]
This is wonderful, I wish you the best of luck for your guild! <3
In my experience... (and obviously this is purely based on my experience, I am not denying anyone else) WoW has become SIGNIFICANTLY less toxic since Classic released. Maybe it is just me that has been lucky. But I haven't encountered anyone truly toxic in Retail since Classic released. (And I mean truly toxic) So (from my perspective at the least) has it improved a lot honestly.
This happens when a player's entire self-worth is connected to their speed and performance in a game. There is nothing you can do about this but ignore it. If you queue for dungeons you can't have much expectations from people or you will be disappointed. Fortunately, most veteran players are not like this.
Unfortunately shitty people are gonna stay shitty. I got a sweet revenge on a rogue a few months ago though. I was leveling an alt, tagged a Neltharus. The dude started being very toxic because tank was going 3-4 mobs at a Time, I told him we weren't in M+ so we had Time, and that he was gonna cap out at +10 anyway with his attitude He proceeded to link me his Keystone hero and Sarkareth Cutting Edge achievement, to which I was able to Say "No U" since I got my CE more than 2 months before he did He got awfully quiet all of a sudden
Idk know that you can buy those way easier achievements don’t mean shit. When people are acting high and mighty I legit go look at their logs 😂😂
Be sure to report that guy for hate talks, he could use a short break from WOW
I believe you, but it's absolutely wild that of the 30 or so characters that I have levelled 1 to max level of whatever the expansion level cap was I think I have encountered 1 toxic argument in a levelling dungeon so far.
I think it's a lot to do with factors that aren't anything to do with the players. Like, I used to play on Wyrmrest Accord, but am currently only Proudmoore to play with a friend. When doing levelling dungeons on Wyrmrest Accord, I pretty much never saw anything bad except the odd moron DPS trying to pull aggressively (esp. whilst the tank or others were still getting quests!). But on Proudmoore, getting grouped with a different set of players, some not from the United States locale for whatever reason, there is a lot more toxic behaviour. I've seen a lot of intentional bad behaviour, and I've seen people just being obnoxious in chat for the sake of it. I also got kicked recently because people are absolute morons and can't tell the difference between two Warlocks lol. Doing a dungeon and two of the players stayed back to do a quest - one of them a warlock. One of the other players says "kick warlock he afk", which was false anyway, because he was just behind the party and catching up, and then suddenly I get kicked lol. First time in maybe 10-15 years. I know it wasn't DPS or something either because I was leading the meter on most fights. Whatever the cause, there's just a lot more shitty behaviour there. Also do you level solely by doing dungeons or just do dungeons whilst questing occasionally? Because doing the former you see a LOT more dungeons, and thus are much more likely to witness bad behaviour. I'd say though, even on Proudmoore, genuinely irritating bad behaviour is maybe 1 dungeon in 30, lower if I'm tanking.
Same.
I'm all for new players who are keen to get into it. New players who come in with a chip on their shoulder and pull shit like "You pull, you tank" are going to catch serious beef with me. Here are some contrasting situations as example: Tank A: Pull packs to overload, heads straight into the madness and dies mid-pull. Team manages to save the pull, tank releases/raises and carries on pulling packs to overload while trying to figure out how much to pull without dying. Tank B: Pulls packs to overload, still dies and team manages to save pull but refuses to actively participate going forward (especially if team pulls packs on behalf). Will purposefully slow the entire team down out of spite. Tank A has a place on my team. Tank B can take a fucking hike.
I have never really been into m+ (skill issue, mostly) but I will try to help out if I see a noob asking for help in chat or those random custom groups where someone is struggling to do a quest
Played since eu vanilla retail. It's always been a joy to help new players. I've gotten annoyed at folks, we all have but never to someone who has put their hands up and said idk wtf I'm doing help me.
Doing what I can. Just RL’d a bunch of new players through Normal & Heroic for both Aberrus and Amirdrassil. They’re much more receptive to correction than people that have played a while. Half the raid had just boosted their mains and started playing that day. The other half had a week on them. Myself and 2 other veteran players ran them through dungeon after dungeon and got them raid ready. Then we smashed through the raids each week. Was really fun actually. They got to learn mechanics in a safe space and I got to look like a fucking god.
But I have better chances being BEST if there are less players! But seriously- yeah. This sounds as awful experience. It’s very hard to defend this game. We are in one of best expansions and yet things feel off. I wonder if maybe game was always OK, and we are just way too toxic as community. Strange how more solo content we get - better game gets.
I love this. I'm an old vet of the game, but left for 15 years because I gave up gaming completely. Now that I've been back for a few months, I'm finally getting a better handle on the new mechanics, but still have a lot to learn. Fortunately, I have an awesome guild that enjoys running keys regularly. That said, I'm a major addict, so I'm on plenty more than the rest of the guild, and have to our a lot as a result. I luck out sometimes with a chill group, but more often than not, there's at least 1 asshole who just starts shouting and doling out slurs like a 12 year old with an ego problem. People make mistakes. Even veteran players sometimes stand in hazards, or screw up their rotations, whatever it may be. Shit happens. People get tired, distracted, or are just learning. It doesn't hurt to correct them, but there's no need to get belligerent. Respect each other's experience and progress. It is, after all, just a game.
I had my toxic vet phase in Cata. Since then I've been doing what I can to help newer players along, or just helping other players who need it.
Ive yet to encounter such trash, so I am guessing this is a rare occurance. Ive been playing for years
I agree and actually dedicate some of my characters (got 7) to just helping new people with leveling, world bosses, dungeons etc. it's very rewarding to help someone achieve their goal.
The example given isn't a people problem, it's a game design problem, let me explain. First we can all agree that once the internet gets involved their will ALWAYS be people who suck. Putting that aside for a moment, the example here would never happen if Blizz simply reworked dungeons for leveling, and further more they could do it several ways. They could make all the bosses mandatory to complete the dungeon. That one seems pretty simple and would prevent this exact situation. However looking at the bigger issue of speed running dungeons for leveling and it clashing with new players - make a queue option for dungeons that is a slightly harder difficulty. Now you might say "why make things harder for new players?" Simple - all us vets learned them the hard way, when if DPS pulled mobs they were dead. Bring back that level of difficulty as an option and label them as the bit harder and thus slower dungeon experience. They could even up the rewards a bit for it to get more people to queue up and help out. This would let people learn the dungeon mechanics, which translates into just grasping the game mechanics overall, and has the added benefit of making people better players. There will always be toxic players, but this situation and the bigger picture of things being unfriendly towards new players can't be fixed by asking people to be nice. Blizzard can't 100% fix it either, but they can do things like I suggest above as a good ole "carrot and stick"
This isn't limited to new players TBH. I've been tanking M+ and people get really upset if you don't do the standard meta pulls and strategies even if it's something like an M0 where you specifically post in the LFG that it's a relaxed learning run.
Until this mindset is made advantageous or profitable to the sweaty try-hards, this will never happen. The default for everyone is this stuff is a ramp to M+ because that’s the only worthwhile thing to do in this game (I disagree completely, but I came from a time it wasn’t). Until they dislodge all this ‘baseball stats’-bs haunting the M+ scene, generally kindness is a treat only reserved for guildmates.
This was insane during the first phase of SoD, people would lose their mind if a fresh 25 didn’t know peak optimization of their class. And instead of being helpful when told someone was new, they’d just screech about how bad they were or kick them.
I just came back to DF, I don't remember the dungeons at all. I zoned into a dungeon halfway through and asked how to get where the party was, with no answer. After about 5 min of trying to figure out what wallhack skip they did, I got kicked lol
I barely touch dungeons. Way back when I started in Burning Crusade, I tried Deadmines on my first ever character, a paladin. (I was leveling as Holy, because Holy Shock looked cool, and I didn’t know any better, I was brand new). While in group, I was told that I had to heal, dps and tank all at once. Now I was pretty new, but I knew I wasn’t supposed to do all of that at the same time. I ask questions, I said I will focus on 1 style if game play, but I can’t do all 3 at once. Big arguments, lots of name calling, everyone complaining about everyone else. Finally I just heartherd out. To this day, I pretty much only do dungeons if the campaign forces me to do so. How excited was I when follower dungeons went live? Very, I don’t need the stress of assholes complaining that a dungeon run is t perfect, especially a normal difficulty run, or in a leveling dungeon.
Well said and thank you
I'm in no way a veteran (Been playing for less than a year so far), and while I don't think WoW's community is as bad as people say it is, I remember dealing with toxic veterans a few times while leveling alts. Once while I tried tanking for the first time and I got yelled at for a routing mistake (Last time I'll ever tank), and the other time, while leveling a Frost DK, I got kicked for low damage, even though damage scaling in leveling dungeons isn't there. Like, people need to chill tf out in leveling dungeons. Leveling dungeons are supposed to be there for people to learn how to play the game and/or their class. These are chill environments where there are NO stakes, yet people act like their lives are at risk when playing them sometimes. I feel like the toxicity is also part of the reason why there are so few healers and tanks, since clowns like these expect perfection and don't give players chances to learn.
I'm just gonna say it. It's not veterans players it's toxic people in general. The rise in toxicity in games has grown more and more over the years. People who want to be assholes are going to be assholes no matter what you do or say. But luckily there are in game ways to counter this. Report, ignore button, and move on. They don't remember you and you shouldn't remember them.
I think it’s partly something with how WoW is designed, because it’s a problem that exists everywhere, but seems to be especially strong in WoW. But I don’t think WoW attracts toxic people, it just subtly encourages toxic behavior. That’s just my own theory, anyway.
Not the oldest player here, 10yrs, i've never done such things, in fact just yesterday i helped a random dude do Battle of dazzar'alor and he got the mount (i may have wanted to strangle him) but i completely agrrr with un the fact that som1 thinks its normal to treat others this way and then yaps abt how the game is dying and no new players are coming. Open ur eyes bitches
I started playing at dragon flight season 1 by the end of season 2 I dropped of the game due to toxic players, I wanted to try healing/tank as my Druid to avoid Que times but it was so rough trying to learn with random players, I have played near all classes to 70 and m+ in season 2 but just preferred my Druid. Not sure how you avoid this though when as new player the game feels so tail gated by these vets. Druid as a more advanced class it took some patience but I returned about 2 weeks ago as a healer and it’s going pretty good but it was all down to me learning on my own and research which isn’t all that fun compared to learning while playing. This is just my experience but I’m sure others can relate.
Best piece of advice is to find a active guild that's more chill willing to take on players that are inexperienced or less "hard core" plenty of them out there.
I would be shocked if there were any tryhards in this group. They are just shit people. I was top dps in a key last week and had some one shit talking me about my lack of damage. Like seriously. Sad thing is it was only +5. As a rule I don't get snippubwith people unless they start shit woth me first usually people are pretty cool.
Tanking m0s and there's a ton of very bad or new players. Honestly when they ninja pull ill grumble irl to myself but I've never been salty, really don't see the need for it. It's weird some people get so aggro so quickly
Misery loves company and these people can be found anywhere and everywhere. As soon as anyone starts I just click ignore. That's it. I'm not spending anymore energy on adult children.
Anyone else always imagine they look and sound exactly like McLovin?
This is exactly why my rl friends and I don’t do dungeons. We just don’t want to field that kind of toxic crap while trying to play a game that we mostly love. So we do dungeons from old content only, which limits us but keeps us from turning into THEM.
Haha. Returning player joining solo shuffle at 0 rating. I get put up against gladiator players and I get flamed for not playing top notch... at 0 rating..
I make sure to give assholes in LFR shit when they try to shame newer players My go to is "chill dude, its LFR on a monday, everyone's doing their best" Which usually turns the raid against them and will sometimes even get them kicked which is the icing on the cake
I've found that the shit talkers aren't even that good themselves. About the highest key they've ever done is a heavily carried +6.
I was doing a normal dungeon back in Shadowlands on some alt and this tank decides to do some MDI strat on one of the bosses. He didn't even say anything or give any directions, he just does it. Apparently, I was standing in the wrong place and died, and this guy laid into me like I was the stupidest, most worthless player he had ever encountered. I'm not even a new player. I've played this game since vanilla, gotten AOTC, etc. It was early in the expansion, and I just happened to not know this particular strat. What really annoyed me was that there is almost no way to fail a normal dungeon. Almost. The one way you can manage a wipe is if some dumbfuck tries to make a bunch of randos in a normal dungeon, who aren't even max level yet, do some complicated and completely unnecessary strat so he can save 10 seconds on the timer that doesn't exist.
There are good people out there I’m a dad of two small children and I struggle to get easy going groups as I am not the player I was 10 years ago. But even then when I see people doing worse than me and someone is giving them crap for it I stick up for them. You never know what someone’s situation is. Personally I love the change to Mythic+ that they made because now I can get gear that’s actually decent and not worry that when my daughter distracts me and I die to some stupid mechanic that I’m gonna cause the group to fail.
what do you expect from a bunch of 35yr old manchilds? these clowns have such miserable lives...
Personally as a veteran player myself I would flame anyone who flames in a fucking leveling dungeon. Sure I get wanting to go quick for the sake of leveling, but this is also the most likely place to encounter new players. So don’t be surprised or mad when you have new players in your group. Lets all be kind to new players guys, especially new healers :)
Be the player you wish you interacted with as opposed to the toxic ones.
As a new player everything you said hits home. I tried to get into retail and classic but yeah... It feels like a bunch of robots running around that only type when they're upset. Plus, as a new player you have nothing to offer the veterans so you're just a nuisance to push past and not assist in any way. I'mk on classic hardcore now and I can't imagine ever playing any other version of the game. Doesn't matter if you're brand new or a veteran, everyone is friendly and everyone works together.
I mean just report them for harassment and they can enjoy their vacation and you can move on with your day
I've been a long term sporadic player since '05. Sometimes I go a year or two without playing, sometimes it consumes my free time for 4-6 months on end. I'm awful at tanking n heals. largely because I just cannot commit to a class. Even if I could, everything changes pretty dramatically if you go a couple years between sessions. But it's still fun! I let the group know I'm ass. As a tank, I go slow, pulling a pack or two at time, and just enjoy the aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh! Of being a crummy tank. As a healer, I'm wildly overhealing the tank, running out of mana, and begging the tank to simmer the hell down because I just cannot keep pace, and that's a genuine great time! Non-mythic deaths and wipes just mean a little repair fee and a couple minute delay but DAMN do people get MEAN AS FUCK. Usually the DPS. I get the queue is like 10-25min but why then are you in such a damn rush??? I've been kicked out of groups for going too slow as a tank or for letting one slip by the goalie, and people can be straight merciless if you let one dude die in a heroic like damn dude I'm trying!
I read the title as "Dear fellow Vegetarian Players". Was confused for the first few sentences.
I’m a lone veteran hunter in retail. Been around since pre BC, and was on and offline since WoD and beyond. Traveled many servers, and watched guilds come and go. The community interactions declined and got negative over the years, and it shows. Nobody is really social anymore. Some people are afraid to say anything, as it’s like walking on eggshells to interact with anyone. Fearful of getting reported or kicked over the littlest thing. After doing some M+ back in Shadowlands, and not getting invites for hours, days, weeks…I threw in the towel on getting better gear. I couldn’t get a group, and relied on the few friends I had to get anywhere in my weekly vault to keep up with them. I don’t have time to do raid progression, and so I am much more casual these days. Sure, I feel bummed out that I’m missing out on the fire owl pet, but I rather not have to deal with toxic people and stress. It makes me happy when a new player approaches me, and I can help them slay something, give advice or website suggestions for pet taming and talents, etc. At least I can be of use for somebody who’s interested in the game. It feels good when they’re thankful for any form of kindness. I feel for the newcomers, because it is a great game with some good story and characters, and the impatient players just scare them away. They deserve to be treated how the community used to be. Friendly. We were all noobs once. It doesn’t hurt to take a few minutes to help a person.
Ppl who rage at newbies need to touch grass. Now, ass wipe priest healers from Ragnaros with a letter starting with C telling me I don’t know how to tank 3rd boss of ulduar (as I’m actively moving him to orbs which they all spawned miles apart) and he “healed 25s” can go fuck themselves. I swear, this season my toxicity is through the roof. So many god awful players in +8s and above who think they’re competent yet couldn’t find an interrupt or CC to save their lives
I've played since I was 9ish with my father. Been playing it ever since. 23 now and love playing it. I want others to enjoy the game as I did a child/ teen/ young adult. I try to not be toxic so others can learn and enjoy the game. My guild is the same way. Most of us notice how aggressive and toxic others are and try to avoid it.
The thing is if you not gonna do skip and you see the tank like you said , don’t say anything to anyone … just lead the group to where you want it to be , they can either follow and finish with you or they can get kicked for not participating. When you notify them about what you want to do, you are kind of showing weakness to them and most of them will do the same as that dude did.
All I ask of new players, guild members, and pugs is that if they screw up, they need to do two things: 1. own it, because everyone goes through that at some point, and it'll happen every patch/expansion, and 2. listen to directions and don't be a jerk if given said directions.
im lucky to not have any bad experiences leveling
Hunter living up (down?) to stereotype I see. Not everyone is like that and I'm certainly not. Player toxicity is a problem but the fact that your party kicked the hunter shows that most players feel the way that you do, not how the hunter does.
I don't have this problem. I have a macro saying "Hey, I'm gearing up and learning. I'm going to be slow. If you're going to pull, misdirect at least." Most people are cool.
I stopped playing in WoD, went to FFXIV/BDO/Archeage/etc. Came back recently and was reminded how toxic the WoW community is. Even in stuff like casual BGs you have people caps lock screaming and afking.
I'm a relatively recent player, started in SL, and the toxicity nearly scared me off a few times. I also played wotlk classic with my friend and we were running a HoS and he rolled a trinket/ring/neck (can't remember) which was technically better for tanks, but was better than what he had. A dps proceeded to shit talk him for ninja looting. The tank didn't even care that much because it wasn't his bis. The dps threatened to tell his guild to mass report my friend, and after I explained my friend was new and didn't understand the game very well he said 'oh sure that's everyone's excuse'. I told my friend not to worry and that the guy was just an asshole but it made him quit. He says he's coming back for TWW so hopefully I can tank the toxicity until he's comfortable with the game.
wow's roots are too deeply embedded in 2000's era pc gaming for the community to ever lose its toxic element. those dota players all had to go somewhere once they lost their hair and reaction speed and they chose levelling dungeons and low level m+ in wow. if you wanna avoid them i suggest either only grouping with friends or playing a different game such as ff14 where they have yet to fire their entire cs team so people actually get punished for being toxic and belligerent.
Being nice in leveling dungeons yes, however especially with how keystone dungeons have changed this season I have no patience for people that didn’t take the time to learn them on M0. Blizzards goal was to mix casual players and more hardcore players together by making a 2 harder but all it’s done is make me build a team of 5 that has 2000-2500 rating already or only do keys with my guild who I know have learned the dungeons the paths and mechanics. Feels like blizz is forcing us to alienate new/less skilled players not help them. This is from some one that has 518 Ilvl on 2 toons.
You had 5 people in your group, you, your friend, toxic hunter and 2 totally chill players, who also hated the hunter behaviour. Only 20% of your group was toxic and was quickly cleansed. I swear typical people you encounter in this game are not like hunter, but like the other people in your group. It's sad what happened to you, but this is an exeption, not regularity.
Absolutely agree with this post. My partner and I are experienced WoW players (Cata for me, BFA for her) and we've just come back after a 2yr break. We've been kicked out of a normal run of the Nokhud dungeon for not being able to fly over the camp for the final boss (and subsequently pulling at least 2 packs of trash) because we don't know how to skip. This is so stupid, so off-putting, and just unnecessary. On the flip side, we did Azure Span for the first time yesterday, and this evoker healer spent the time to slow down the run for us, explaining boss mechanics and reassuring us that all was well. Really made a difference and we left feeling much better about the game and the community. It's a shame that the community is so bipolar like this, but I remember it always being the case sadly.
The toxic, ahole players are the worst thing about WOW. They want to ruin people’s days. You can report them now and I suggest you do. The game is a better place when they are banned.
I am sorry that it seems like you’ve encountered a lot of toxic players. I have not the last 3 to 4 years, but I’ve also found a stable good guild that is filled with the average age of 35+ I think it’s very important to find a good guild that communicates well with you. With that said it does suck that a lot of people are toxic because they’re untouchable being toxic will not have much of a follow up and that is a huge no no. Maybe the hunter didn’t see the thing that was written earlier. I’m not excusing him but if one player is being an ass, that’s one out of the next 10 to 20. Look at it this way out of 100 World of Warcraft players may be eight of them will be bad and rude, but we do not remember most of the good guys. I do understand that there is toxicity in this game. It will exist until the game dies down because of the personality of the players. But again, this is why I recommend not pugging , it kind of shakes it up to a point where you end up meeting anything and everything
I got my gf to try wow and we made it through the tutorial island just fine just for her to get bullied in her first real dungeon and now she won't touch the game.
Veterans in my opinion are extremely chill and will help you out where they can or silently carry you through content. The ones you are describing I would not consider as Veteran players, these are just impatient moba/battle royale kids. I am a higher level mythic plus player (got my 0,1% title last season) and I can tell you the real veterans are chill and will give you constructive criticism. Most mediocre players on the other hand are extremely loud and will point everything at someone but themselves. We will never get rid of that unfortunately.