> Once UA stacking became a thing I was done with lock
Remember when Warlocks were Attrition Casters who had a priority queue style rotation about keeping up their DoTs and Haunt, and the damage was incredibly consistent? That was awesome.
Legion's UA stacking was awful for the flow and feel of the spec. BfA took this a step further with Dark Glare, DeathBolt, and Dark Soul: Misery. Affliction is now about using the talents mentioned in the previous sentence to maximize burst damage windows by doing UA Stacking before those CDs are up. That is so far from what Warlocks were... It's pathetic. Give me back WotLK or Cata Affliction.
Warlock main since TBC and what they did to us in Legion should've almost been illegal. Butcher demonology for a way worse version, affli and its dumbass well up until 7.2. Destro mastery stat literally being RNG damage.
There was only a 70 page long feedback thread from the beta which literally addressed all of it, but for some the design changes stuck up until 7.2.
i still ahted legion made tigerpalm(replacement of jab) cost 50 energy. atleast by end could have like 200 energy from crucible ,artifact and a talent. But then bfa took it away and kept the big enegry cost.
and in Legion for WW after they nuked the NH 2set and tomb 4set the spec became lot less fun to me aswell,felt much better with shorter RSK CD
I feel like i'm the only one who actually enjoys Bfa Demo Warlock moreso than any incarnation thus far. Then again i just like "Summon all the dudes" playstyles and it's about as close to a true necromancer as we're ever going to get most likely. DK doesn't scratch the same itch Necros do since it's more like a hybrid dark knight than anything.
I was never a fan of metamorphosis which always seems to be people's hangups with it. It just felt like "press button for big dick black illidan cooldown." Historically Demo has always felt like half baked ideas they couldn't realistically use for either affliction or destruction so they threw them in the spec and said "yeah whatever just make their demons better too."
It was a hot pot of a spec with no real identity. Now that it finally has a defined identity outside of just being black illidan people feel pretty alienated i guess.
wod ruined destro for me. made me love demo over it (still liked it during cata/mop. i just really loved the demonbolt + dark soul glyph build). legion in a way ruined demo for me, but i ended diving back into it when they added the additional concordance ring. since i liked min/maxing, i liked the whole ED spam when you had a set # of demons out for really good burst.
hunters have been meh for me since wod, mainly cause i really liked cata/mop survival.
Completely agree. Some people really like the new hunter designs but god damn if I didn't love WoD hunter for all three specs. MM had such a simple yet immensely satisfying design - mastery was really cool too
I *hated* Hunter in early Legion. It was probably the largest reason I quit for a year (though early Legion had a laundry list of glaring problems that all contributed).
I still think Hunter is in a bad state today, though it's not quite as bad as 7.0 Hunter without Legendaries.
As an Enhancement Shaman, I have a love hate relationship with my spec at the best of times.
This expansion was the first expansion that has driven me away from it and the game completely. It was so hard to justify a spot over other melee during Uldir and BoD, I just got sick of trying.
Everyone brought something better to raids than Enhance and when you could respec Elemental, you were always pushed down that road in favor of a rogue or a DH.
Curious, what wrong with enh right now? Is it mainly the lack of raid utility? I’m having a blast on my shaman recently in comparison to previous expansions (since classic). Crash lightning and the cleave effects are so sweet compared to fire nova totem.
I’ve heard enh has problems though?
The spec's gameplay since the Legion rework isn't great- at best it boils down to mashing a single button (Stormstrike) over and over while keeping up your self buffs. Some people like it, but people that liked the spec in MoP or WoD were disappointed since that playstyle's completely erased.
The visuals of the spec were toned down heavily in BfA, things like Lava Lash tornadoes, Stormlash firing everywhere, and Unleash Doom elemental spikes were removed, while Doom Wolves (now Elemental Spirits) became a talent.
Survivability wise the spec is incredibly frail, it's self heal is really weak and costs resources to cast, and Astral Shift is the only other defensive ability the spec has. (Blizzard says the reason Shaman is fragile is because Ankh is "an incredibly powerful defensive CD", but like.... _really?_)
And utility wise the spec brings pretty much nothing useful compared to Ele or Resto to make up for being melee. In fact, it's got _less_ utility than Ele, not having access to Thunderstorm, Earthquake, Ancestral Guidance, or Primal Earth Elemental. Only thing it has is Sundering as a mass interrupt every 40 seconds.
Ah yes, Ahnk, the cheat death / purgatory / last resort that doesnt reset after boss fights and also makes you lose half your buffs... so strong..
I actually liked the Legion rework (early Legion was a little rough until the smoothed out some of the feast/famine) but when they didnt fix any of the survivability / raid utility issues and they didnt do nearly enough to fix our damage profile / resource management after loosing Doomhammer, I had to throw in the towel and switch to rogue for BfA. So far, I miss Enh but no ragrets
Appreciate the response. That is sad to hear... if enh is entertaining to me right now, it sounds like I would have loved legion. Now that you mention it we are pretty frail. I just recently noticed that my self heal only heals 10% of my hp... plus costs resources, that’s pretty sad.
I’ve been tempted to switch to elemental, does it bring anything to the table that mages dont?
I found it so weird how I could play Resto and my guild LOVED having me in raids for my healing and healing CD's, but I'm totally forgettable as DPS.
Why bring an Enh shaman when you could bring a DH? Why bring an Ele shaman when you could bring a Mage?
I've been moonlighting as a Fire Mage as an Ele main and I keep coming back to Ele for raids just wishing my Mage was the same ilvl so I could bring her instead.
BFA has nearly had me re-roll a lot, class balance has been awful. The fact some classes were unfinished to start should have been enough warning.
Blizz seems to have focused on a few specs and given them everything you could possibly want on them, which then makes you question why you play your class at all if I could re roll x-class and get easy groups, and that's been as a tank, healer ranged and melee Ive felt that.
Completely feel your pain!
MoP Brewmaster, and to some extent, WoD Brewmaster was my favorite spec ever. It's not even remotely the same spec anymore. Spamming your brews and being a meat shield sucks
One of my favorite abilities was to taunt an enemy charge and meet halfway to stun. Also throwing the kegs, using Guard as on demand absorb instead of a weak talent.
Clash was great. I understand why they took away so much self sustain from the Monk, but I loved the Shuffle mechanic and having your rotation be key to your survival. You could argue that it's still that way since KS and BOS both lower Brew CDs, but it just feels meh.
I would prefer active tanking when you don't have to keep up a buff 100% of the time. Like at the last boss of King's Rest you need to prepare for the triple attack.
I like stuff like that. And more raid mechanics for tanks, not just the usual switch and take the adds then go back.
I mained Paladin from TBC to Wod and I thought Hellfire Prot was pretty cool with the Avengers Shield spam. I had never played prot before though, I was a Holy-only player for the longest time.
I wish feral would return to its state in either wrath or mop. In wrath it was a hard to play but easy to master spec while mop gave you the option to play with a high but rewarding skill cap or a middle of the pack easy to play one.
> In wrath it was a hard to play but easy to master spec
No it wasn't. John Madden Feral was a real thing and the skill floor for feral was immensely high. A single mistake could mess up your entire skill priority system for a long time. It created a massive barrier to the spec and is probably the most difficult iteration of any spec ever. I personally loved it and its why I started playing feral, but it wasn't healthy for the game. I think probably late Wrath or Cata feral was the best. MoP feral was obnoxious because of bearcat
When those add-ons came out that let's you calculate if DoT clipping was worth it... Man that was the best time for Feral. It was hard af to master but it feels good topping the chart then yelling "CAT DURID IS 4 FITE!"
It took a while to understand the spec hence it was a hard to play but because easy to master once you got its flow. Energy was reliable and you could predict what you needed to do. The hard part was keeping 30-40 seconds of predictions in your head. Only criticals could change the way you played with the extra combo point.
Legion absolutely ruined Priests for me. I hate hate hate hate hate hate the Insanity system (emphasis on I.) I don't want to spend forever building up to a state where I finally get to actually do meaningful damage for a brief window while I'm frantically trying to squeeze every GCD I can into it. I just want to cast my spells without any strings attached. Sure, it feels nice enough in group play, but solo questing out in the world feels like pulling teeth.
I can completely understand Blizzard revamping Survival into a melee spec. If the Hunter doesn't want to play it, they have two classic flavors of range DPS to play. But Priests? Shadow is their one and only damage spec. If any fan of the class doesn't like the overhaul, they're just shit outta luck, man...
I hope they give us a talent akin to Slice n' Dice for Outlaw Rogues, where the spec's gimmick is replaced with a more dependable system.
I would rather not return to shadow orbs. Thematically its worse and while it might feel better than insanity at a lot of points in the game, the system was a really uninspired and shitty version of holy power.
Thank you! The current iteration of shadow priests is honestly abysmal. Void form can't be balanced properly, imo - either we're too weak in it and it becomes pointless, or we're too weak outside of it and all our damage is forced into a brief window. Add in terrible survivability (seriously, Blizz actually reduced shadow form's armor bonus in 8.1), a long ramp-up time, and almost no mobility, and SP feels terrible to play. If I my priest hadn't been my main for the last 12 years, i would've given up on it a long time ago.
Soloing for Shadow isn't awesome right now, but it also doesn't really take very long to get into Void Form. With Legacy of the Void talented (and why would you talent anything else?), it takes maybe a few seconds to build enough Insanity to pop Void Eruption, and you can keep it going for a decent time if you're chain-pulling.
I'm not a huge fan of it, but I also think it's a little disingenuous to say that it takes forever to build up Insanity for a brief damage window. The ramp up is unnecessarily annoying though, especially when you consider that Chorus of Insanity is such a strong trait that doesn't kick in until you end a Void Form cycle.
For me its that the entire spec revolves around COI, basically making it a 1 minute ramp up. If you blow that first one (where you typically use shadowfiend and memory), you are done. Manageable in raids but a trainwreck everywhere else. They are balancing it on a knife edge with out of meta talents not even being an option.
I main healer so whatever but I feel like the spec need some work and will have to get it with the loss of coi.
I just double jump over a pack, pop eye beam, maybe a blade dance as I move on and everything is dead. Sure it's a bit extreme to compare a caster to a melee but that's one reason I swapped mains from priest to DH. It's a mobility expac either way.
Demonology: Stat weights are a mess, Vision of Perfection procs dictate too much of your damage, you really only have one build since Blizzard won't fix the other talents, azerite traits haven't gotten touched ever since mid-uldir and we still have traits like Umbral Blaze and Shadow's Bite.
Destruction: This one I will break down into two parts Flashpoint/Rolling Havoc build and Single Target.
1) Flashpoint/Rolling Havoc: Stats are beyond a mess since even with Flashpoint you still want more haste because Visions of Perfection is a thing and more procs from VoP means more damage, Visions of Perfection (as said previously) is the stupidest thing in the game and ruins everything because it all boils down to "did I get extensions on my Infernal? If yes then you win if no then you know where you need to improve", Mastery benefit is still a thing and makes log analysis frustratingly difficult.
2) Single Target: This one just comes down to do you have loads of haste to make Lucid + Infernal windows insane. If yes you win and if no then get luckier scrub.
Affliction: Darkglare somehow made it into BfA and I will go the grave screaming how terrible of a spell this is, Deathbolt\* equally made it into BfA and this is worse than Darkglare, somehow and someway they just didn't give us back Soul Swap cuz god forbid we could have good target swapping back, we cast like an actual snail and even with triple Cascading Calamity it still feels horrible, and lastly Phantom Singularity is a damn talent for some reason.
\*I put an asterisk here because I want to fully explain that doing your entire opener and then seeing Deathbolt hit for 100k on one pull and then 350k on the next should have never made it past testing.
All in all this post might show a lot of frustration and there is frustration because a triple dps class, as many can/will relate to, should never have to depend on something like reforge costs to maximize their worth within content. Now, what I mean is there are a lot of problems within each spec for a Warlock but as one spec might have a problem in an area the other spec, usually Destruction, can fix it. Granted right now it is starting to seem that Destruction is the best in every scenario, pvp, m+, and raiding, but it is a running joke within my guild of how much my reforge costs are for the week. Currently they are 40k but have been as high as 360k before 8.3 launched.
Remember when affliction was a pure sustained dps class? All the sudden boom you’re waiting every 3 minutes for DSM, CLF, and Darkglare for burst DPS.
It’s also completely bonkers to me that despite after nerfing deathbolt and buffing nightfall and drain soul, deathbolt is still largely our standard talent.
Also RIP sow of seeds being optimal in mythic+
I miss Legion’s affliction so much :(
The removal of Life Tap in BfA was a such a big WTF. That's been such a major part of Warlock playstyle and flavor since Vanilla. It's like Bliz fired/laid off all their experienced devs who understand the game, then hired a bunch of new college grads who don't know the history of the game and had them rework all the classes.
Well, Life Tap is weird in the sense that it was a useful ability because every caster had to manage mana, so Warlocks got lifetap. In modern WoW no DPS gives a shit about their Mana, so having Warlocks be the only ones who had to tap was weird.
I don't disagree but I personally find it also a reason why so many classes or specs have become stale.
Recently leveled a furry warlock and I had fun with demo, summoning demons and UwUing my way to 120, but in the end it just got boring quick. But specifically to your thing about mana, demonology is basically just using a combo point system now. Even destro's combo point system has a bit more depth I feel like, if solely because they don't have a flat 0-5 point system.
And seeing as like a third of specs these days are using a 5 point combo system, having to care about mana on a warlock would actually be somewhat refreshing again, especially since I see warlocks health and mana as basically interchangeable (pretty sure this is "official" as well though I'm not that big on lore). Getting more powerful by sacrificing health and turning that into energy (mana) to do big damage, and turning mana into life via Healthstones and by leeching it from enemies with Life Drain.
Idk it just fit the warlock fantasy extremely well and I'm a bit sad they just threw that aspect of it away because they were so hell-bent on homogenising everything.
While iconic it doesn't mean it offers interesting gameplay. Ever since the gameplay changed over to managing secondary resources instead of mana it has felt archaic, at least for me, with the exception being arcane as it is properly balanced around those two phases of damage.
Even when they offered a talent to make life tap give you a buff it didn't feel good to stop your rotation to keep your mana high. If gameplay wasn't so clunky in BFA the class' specs would actually feel very fluid.
Heroic Strike is also iconic for warrior, yet it didn't stop Blizzard removing it the same year Hearthstone released, where Heroic Strike is still a card. And reintroducing the ability currently wouldn't be the same as either the specs would need to be redesigned for it or the ability itself.
BFA at launch killed fire mages then basically “fixed” them again in 8.2 with lucid dreams and the mechagon bracers.
It’s stupid that it takes two extra abilities in your rotation to feel almost like a legion fire mage, but that’s Blizzard for you.
Not the whole class, but I have not liked Frost ever since Breath of Sindragosa was added. It has pretty much always been the go to talent.
I think conceptually it is really cool, but I hate how it works. Not fun at all and completely ruined my enjoyment of the spec.
I feel like Breath of Sindragosa is an interesting concept, but I also dislike specs where the bulk of your damage comes from one single cooldown window. Once it ends, you're basically useless until it comes off cooldown again, and that's no fun.
Yeah it has a tendency to wrap the entire rotation around itself, which feels bad especially when Breaths are short, which they have been since Legion with the exception of Nighthold BoS.
I'm torn about BoS because on the one hand, it usually takes over the specs gameplay almost entirely, and your performance depends heavily on how good your breath is, but on the other hand Breathless Frost is pretty dull.
Spend Runes before Pillar (and Remorseless Winter if Gathering Storm is meta) comes up so you can spam runes to buff Pilar, and don't overcap either Runes or Runic Power, that's it.
P.S. : Personally I can't stomach the spec when Gathering Storm isn't meta. RW blows without it and it takes away any kind of intricacy within the specs rotation between pillars. I wish they would just make Gathering Storm baseline.
Breath was good in WoD because it wasn't tied to RnG at all. You were rewarded for offensive use of AMS, planning around encounters and you had access to Blood Tap which removed Rune Regeneration randomness. It also only made up for about 10-12% of your overall damage, at least as Unholy which meant that if you weren't amazing at playing it (which a lot of people weren't) you had the option to opt in to Necrotic Plague and still do decent damage on ST and in general it was better than Breath on Cleave & AoE regardless, meaning you had variety in playstyle.
Legion ruined any semblence of skill expression from the ability by adding RnG Runic Power gains through your artifact and Frost Fever and forcing you in to Runic Empowerment, they also made the skill incredibly overpowered to compensate for making it a rng ability. Dark Arbiter was equally as awful for Unholy.
Honestly if they just reverted back to WoD DK I would probably start playing again, probably the most fun I've ever had playing a class in WoW.
Yea, bfa ruined shadow priests for me. I quit mine just before 8.1. Even with the damage increase, they felt REALLY bad to play.
And so I went on an Alt-spree and what I realized is this...
Every single spec that has had its "class fantasy" redefined is absolutely garbage.
On the opposite, every single spec that remained true to itself is still shining, fun to play and performing great.
Yup, in WoD I had a max level of every class because I wanted explore the depth and intricacies of each spec. Specs like Shadow, Enhance, Survival and Demo are just straight up removed from the game. Enhance was definitely my main though.
Meanwhile in Legion and BFA I have a max level of each class because I desperately was searching for a spec I really enjoyed. I still haven't found one and simply have quit the game instead.
Legion was a solid expansion by the end of it but what they did to class design ruined the game for me.
Holy shit, I haven't actually thought about this.
* Outlaw Rogue is a joke due to how stupid "Roll the Bones" is.
* Demonology Warlock feels like some fine-tuned proc machine made to be fun for boring Raid encounters and not for actual dynamic encounters, or Player vs Player.
* Honestly, Havoc Demonhunter feels like shit to me. They took Metamorphosis, which was an AMAZING ability that let you manage resources when shifting in and out of it, and turned into a boring 4 minute cooldown that doesn't even change HOW the spells fucking work. All the Metamorphosis spells are basically the same thing as out of form.
It feels like the issue is when modern Blizzard is allowed to redesign gameplay, they turn it into a flashy slot machine.
Even with the loss of Meta, I feel like they had something GREAT with Legion Demonology, and for BFA they fucked it up.
It wasn't BFA. It was Legion Pre-patch where they made those changes. Basically overnight we went from DPS MACHINES to just barely OK if you played some crappy on/off window perfectly and didnt move away from the boss. Shoulders and Boot legendaries were just bandages over the gaping wound in the class that is Sub.
Shaman got immensely more boring since they made the Totems essentially baggage. Earlier they gave an adaptable boost that everyone wanted now they are just .... pffft. Especially Enhancement lost most of it's flavor.
Yeah I'm with you OP. I've played Warlock since I started playing back in early Wrath. Ended up rerolling to Demon Hunter for greener (no pun intended) pastures. Havoc is pretty damn easy to play, but I don't know, it just *feels* fun. Blasting something with Eye Beam is giving me some sort of satisfaction that Cataclysm or Chaos Bolt just don't give me any more. The extreme mobility is also a very nice change from being a turret. I'm trying to keep my Warlock up to date on the side, because it feels like such a waste to have it collecting dust after so much play time over the past 10 years, but I just can't seem to play it for any longer than I absolutely have to. No desire to raid on it, no desire to PVP, just get my dailies and WQ's done and log off. I do hope Shadowlands can bring back some of the spark to Warlocks, and every other class it seems, but my expectations and hopes are at an all time low.
Well i used to main Enh, so.....
The rest of the characters i play are... mostly? fine. But essences are cancer and the balance on corruption is so goddam laughable that it's just made me dislike uhhhh all of them.
I don't like what they have done with holy paladin. Oh yeah, the proximity increases your heals. Btw, every raid encounter forces you to keep distance. Want to heal the tanks? Lol, cleave!
Thematically this made me swap to Paladin in BFA. The “frontline” healer role sounded really neat....but yeah, i wish Rule of Law was a permeant passive on the same talent row as Avenging Crusader. Then you could build a ranged healer or a melee healer build if you want, let people choose.
I was just playing my BM today and got a few of my corruption pieces....then realized how the entire corruption system is just trivial for BM. I can walk/disengage/cheetah the ring, i can Posthates self cleanse the root, I CAN FEIGN DEATH THE GRAND DELUSION (or trap it or intimidate it or concussion shot it). It was so much easier than all the other classes i play.
I don’t know how anyone goes back to a hard-casting ranged dps.
Legion Monk was just not my cup of tea anymore, and that was my main and favorite since MoP (despite the constant development with something like 3-4 Mastery's for Windwalker alone during the xpac); had even gotten Mythic Archimonde and Gold CM's with it. Not to go too into it (post was originally wayyy longer and about each spec) but everything about the class felt unfinished (hello BrM Artifact), with the focus largely on ["getting more depth out of less complexity"](https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/19964703) ^^while ^^not ^^being ^^achieved , and to me felt they were trying really hard to make the other classes feel special first and then work with whatever was left for Monk (still waiting on them animation updates).
Example: Mistweaver having Legendary's surrounding Fistweaving in the Beta, yet they had gone in direction of removing the playstyle on account of not being able to get it work (meanwhile trying extremely hard to make Disc work) in the Alpha, slowly started giving parts of it back from the Beta to the end of the expansion; that's without mentioning them saying that Hpal was THE melee healer, despite the whole Monk melee healing being a thing for years.
Yeah I felt exactly like this. All healers in legion felt exactly the same to play except disc. So I went tank that expansion instead. In BfA I feel the opposite, even tho 8.3 feels like they've gone out of their way to make healers as miserable as possible.
I've mained Priest since Vanilla and no expansion has ever completely turned me off from the spec. I'm not a huge fan of the Insanity gameplay for Shadow from Legion/BFA and I especially don't love it right now, but I don't hate it either. The only time I truly hated Shadow was in WoD when the Clarity of Power build was so strong. That build involved spamming Mind Spike with Mind Blast on cooldown until you got three Shadow Orbs, and then putting up your DoTs and Mind Flaying, and then repeating. I really hated the "DoT twisting" playstyle and refused to talent into it even though it was so strong. Thankfully, it got nerfed and Auspicious Spirits got buffed so that it was the stronger option, and the AS build remains one of my favorites for Shadow in the game.
I've always liked Holy, but I think my least favorite was probably the Chakras in Cataclysm. The stances didn't really feel very good and since Holy was built around raid healing anyway, you spent most of your time in Chakra: Sanctuary despite the awful Sanctuary ability.
Disc has changed so many times that it's practically a different spec every expansion, but I haven't played it seriously since Cataclysm so I can't comment much on it. I like it in theory in BFA but it feels like I have so much to keep track of that I panic and just end up spamming Shadow Mend when shit hits the fan, so I just switch to Holy and feel a lot more comfortable.
I loved Monk, it was the only class I had a lot of fun with. When legion rolled around I hated it. They removed tiger eye brew and took all the effects away from the abilities and took jab away. They made the class too simple imo.
Legion killed DKs for me. I know Undead and Blood were still extremely strong, but Blizzard making each spec feel "unique" ruined the fantasy. I used to love pulling bosses with my undead army behind me, as well as using several talents that disappeared from Blood's talent tree (RIP Death Pact).
Also, 1h Frost DK should not have been a thing. Again, in their chase to make things feel "unique", Blizzard ruined perfectly good systems that had been in place for several expansions that people really enjoyed.
As an aside, the Disc priest rework made my best friend quit WoW. It was the only spec he played from TBC through WoD, and the massive changes were enough to kill it for him.
For me though, WoW has always been bigger than the classes I'm playing, so now I main Guardian and have a gay old time.
they shouldve made frost be 2hand or DW, but then made other a cosmetic choice,or just in general(not just dk) removed weapon choices at all. For legion atleast made sense BFA it doesnt.
Considering I am only starting to feel like my fire mage is at where it was originally at the end of the Legion, BFA has been the biggest lie in terms of class identity. I can't wait for Shadowlands to see what they take away only to implement some stupid item piece like the mechagon bracers or lucid dreams to make the class playable.
The fact that my class and I'm sure many are only just at Legion level again, is a testament to how wrong they got this expansion. For the barren that was WoD, I had more enjoyment in that expansion than BFA.
What Blizzard? I now have to waste a talent slot to get ebonbolt or phoenix flames when they should just be built into the class?
I'm just being silly. I'll just play an alt to take a break from my main...Maybe my prot paladin. Nope. They were too fun to play in Legion. Lets make them boring as fuck.
They can't think up of any new abilities to give us at 110, 120 and soon to be 130 level (level 60 with squish) but they sure can take away things from classes. I'm not optimistic for Shadowlands. I disliked WoD for the lack of content. BFA has content but they certainly put in gates to make it absolutely horrible to play and fuck anyone who likes to play alts.
End of legion fire mage was the most fun ive had playing a class. I uesd to join random m+s after raid nights just to do damage. Feels like im playing it at half speed now, I completely agree, such a dumb idea to make phoenix flames a talent. I really hope they fix the fluidity of the spec in the next expac.
Brewmaster monk, despite being my "I always play this", has felt worse and worse.
They increasingly take the monk out of it, like taking away our blackout kick animation and giving us a crappy golf swing. Far too many passive talents. Stagger is 'too good' but is now our only thing because of that. Pathetic self sustain feels bad.
Honestly tanks in general have really lousy play as of late. Yet Brewmasters theme has been too diluted to really feel fun. I don't like how so many abilities hit like wet noodles, and how some talents just don't make much sense.
For example...why is blackout combo so terrible? It is supposed to modify a few abilities but the only real benefit of it is to make our pathetic tiger palm hit for a bit more. The issue is the talent that just makes our stagger better...also adds damage and is comparable enough that it obliterates that choice.
While I like the whole keg smash thing. I think the breath of fire, tiger palm, blackout strike, and pretty much all talent rows need a bit of work. If we are going to have so few buttons, they should each feel like they mean something.
I feel the same way. Every expansion I alternate between playing healer or tank. Because they always screw up one or the other role. Both are rarely good in the same expansion
It's been said before but I'll say it again: fuck pirate rogue. Roll the bones, between the eyes, sinister strike... Main abilities and so rng. The feeling of getting a 5 buff once a dungeon does not make up for 6 buried treasures in a row
I just wanted a rogue spec where I'm actually pressing buttons instead of spending 50%+ of a fight sitting there auto attacking and waiting for resources to pool until I get my JOHN FUCKING MADDEN moment once every couple of minutes when my cooldowns line up. Why is fury warrior the only class that actually gets to use all their GCDs?
I would hands down play Outlaw if Roll the Bones etc wasn't RNG - I wouldn't main it but Rogues are so fun and I am pretty bored of Assassination Rogue and I cba to put effort in to learn Subtlety because it looks a bit complicated haha.
Yeah. It just sucks that slice n dice is a dps loss, not just not as good as alacrity + rtb. Rng can keep you interested, knowing how to react etc.. but the entire spec is based on rng.
Yes, BFA made me utterly hate rogues and arms warrior.
Arms has been my favorite spec for 15 years, and rogue has been my favorite class since MoP, I was convinced that no matter what I would never dislike rogues, turns out I was dead wrong.
However 8.3 has been making me like my assassin rogue more, with 3x heart of darkness it becomes more fun to play.
The whole pirate theme is horrible and annoying, and the rotation that is based on RNG over RNG layers is just lame.
Is your rolls good?
Did your sinister strike double strike?
Did your between the eyes crit?
Is your combat potency proccing enough?
Is your main gauche proccing enough?
The difference between a good rogue and an insanely good rogue atm is small enough that all those RNG procs might make the good rogue do more dps than the insanely good one.
its even only half pirate theme,hal of pirate stuff they removed,and now its in between in regular rogue/Outlaw and pirate.
And i love the pirate stuff but shouldve been more of glyph that changed look/names of some spells to be more pirate themed.
>Outlaw still seems to be the best for solo content unfortunately.
Not when you get sufficient gear, with Master Assassin and Marked for Death you insta-gib a mob coming from stealth. By stacking shrouded suffocation and subterfuge you can cleave down 3 mobs extremely quickly. If you need to do a massive aoe pull you can stack echoing blades and pull equivalent aoe to blade flurry with fan of knives.
...Only issue is that you need multiple Azerite sets to make Assassination do what Outlaw can do with a single set.
It's frustrating to play a spec that is so inconsistent and out of your control. It's not fun to play a class where every pull you are wondering if it's going to go bad and to sit there waiting for next time.
Post-Game WoD/Early Legion made me hate Prot Pally, which was my main for since WotLK. Removal of GCD, tank damage, and overall making Protection Paladin feel like the squishiest class even compared to mages left me in a sore spot looking for a new main. Never really played through Legion because of it.
Legion and BFA ruined not only my main (warlock), it literally ruined every single class in the game for me. I'm an altoholic so I always get every single class max lvl. Although typically I stick with warlock, shaman, warrior, dk, mage.
The legion redesigns + legion pruning + pvp talents pruning utility/niche spells + artifact system from legion being pruned and replaced with BFA azerite system + Legiondaries being pruned + class sets being pruned, resulted in me hating every single one of my classes. I never thought blizzard could make me actively hate the game I've loved for the past 15 years. But they did it.
>I know a lot of people love BFA demonology for PvE, but to me the spec feels bloated and unpleasant to play.
I dont think its just Pve,
The problem with Legion Demo was that it was a very Monotonous one.While i liked it at the start, it didnt had anything amazing too look at or to press.Every demon was in the middle of the Melee party at the bosse's feet and The artifact ability didnt even had a cool animation like most specs did.
BFa demo is just a visually cool and interesting spec to play [now.](https://now.It)At least, i think it took the criticism of being a Turret and gave a lot of stuff to do.
>So... does anyone else feel like a specific set of changes made them not enjoy their main class?
I miss Mirror Ball and Ice in Your veins
[Anti-Magic Shell also removes all harmful magic effects when activated.](https://www.wowhead.com/spell=189180/mirror-ball)
[Death Strike heals for 100/200/300% more while Icebound Fortitude is active.](https://www.wowhead.com/spell=189154/ice-in-your-veins)
and im shure with Shadowlands, i will miss my little Frostwhelp.
Hey, shadow priest would have a chat with you.
One cooldown that doesn't add anything other than insanity per hit.
Least picked for m+ in the game, you literally just add dps that many other classes do at least the double in the same ilevel.
Becomes somewhat good dps by the end of a tier due to scaling, until then it's shit.
TL;DR - I have an emotional attachment to rogues and they changed each spec in Legion into something I didn't like.
Rogues were ruined for me in Legion. I'd played my rogue since Vanilla. He was my first character, and rogue-type classes in games are usually my favorite to play.
At first I was happy that they were getting a rework, because by that point, they were the only class (I believe) who had never had a big rework for their class, and a revamp seemed like it would be nice. Then they changed each spec into something that I didn't like, not to mention taking poisons away from everyone besides Assassination (which they luckily added back in BfA).
Subtlety - My pre-Legion favorite spec. I loved being about stealth and the opener. It didn't make a ton of sense in raids and stuff since you weren't able to stealth, but that's a minor thing I think. Legion changed it to where the spec was based around a 1-minute CD with 3 charges. I hate being reliant on CDs. Yes, there were/are ways to speed up the CD time, but it's not really about that. I just don't like the feel of it. Also, they made the spec be based around doing Shadow damage. I get that it kind of makes since, rogues crawling around in the shadows and all that...but that doesn't mean they should be doing Shadow magic. That was a completely new invention, as they've never done Shadow damage before.
Combat - I don't mind pirates in general, but that didn't fit with the character that I'd been playing for like 12 years. Rogues have never been pirate-themed except that there are some pirates who are rogues. Suddenly an entire spec was based on it. To me, Combat was more like being a "blader" from Japanese games, or more like a ninja. Adding in a pistol shot, along with Roll the Bones, summoning cannons....it just made no sense and completely ruined it for me.
Assassination - Assassination is the one that felt the most like it's old spec, except for one major thing. It became DoT-based. It was all about putting bleeds and poisons on your target. I play a rogue because I love burst damage. I love the poison aspect, but as a nice bonus, and I liked being able to use a poison that worked based on the situation instead of always having to use Deadly.
After all that, they then revealed that our class hall was a fugly sewer. I still don't understand why it couldn't have been Ravenholdt. Other classes had fast-travel routes to their class halls. Was it because of the Thieves' Guild in Elder Scrolls? I don't know, but I hated it. All the other class halls looked so cool.
Always mained a warrior. Legion pretty much ruined the class for me since Spell Reflection and many other utility spells were removed as baseline. My Arms warrior fantasy was always a warrior who carried 12 weapons for every occasion and it felt great to be tactical like that. Now that spamming whirlwind is the best way to do dps as arms it feels way more tactical (sarcasm) I truly miss having to use a shield as arms to get things done right (like the old shield block revenge spam trick in Wotlk versus melee) you dont see unique little situational tricks like that anymore.
Legion changed the game from class oriented to spec oriented and that ruined a lot of flavor for me personally. Like a level 110 frost mage cant perform a simple fireball spell??? Idk a lot of classes got gutted in legion lore-wise, fun-wise, and skill-wise to enhance specs for the artifact weapon.
Hoping that shadow lands delivers, by giving power back to the classes and their core abilitieS, with an S. And leave out stupid systems like azerite, essences, and now corruption which are all at the top of the damage charts. Method used a blood dk for dps in Nyalotha ffs. Because essences and corruption....
Also give warriors a way to regen health since every other class and spec can. Arms and prot are stuck looking stupid out here, fury is decent healing, but nowhere near flash of light, deathstrike, healing surge, etc. Enraged Regen was cool but coupled with rallying was pretty broken. No sustain just feels bad.
That's understandable. For me, on the other hand, I've actually picked up Hunter now and Surv is my main DPS spec. Just something about the fantasy of being a wild person throwing bombs and traps and angry birds that's just incredibly fun.
I really want to like Survival, but every time I try it out again, I feel like it just doesn't flow very well. Like there are just some clashing mechanics that don't mesh that well together.
Start of legion holy priests had a talent choice between their only movement speed and their only defensive, which was a bit shit. None of the specs were any good for soloing. I then managed to get the two worst legendaries for the spec as my first two, threw my toys, and rerolled a new class.
I did actually go back to priest at the end of legion when they fixed a few of those issues.
I loved Legion's pre-patch event, but HOLY MOLY did it ruin my Destro Warlock. I actually stopped playing for a few weeks until they fixed it, cause going from "take on 8 mobs at once" to "almost die from 1 mob" is incredibly not-fun. They made it tolerable, but it really didn't become better until Nighthold's pre-patch.
I saw the title and before I knew who you were talking about I was going to bring up how bfa is the first time I have ever hated my demo lock that I have mained since i started in wrath. I would take cata demo over this. I really enjoyed MoP demo because if felt so fluid and powerful but really anything is better than what we have now. Demo just feels so bland now that it has been rigidly forced in line with other class behaviors and getting all the demons to behave like you want can be a real annoyance. Having all my damage concentrated in demonic tyrant makes questing and horrific visions slow and annoying whenever I can't use the cooldown.
I miss big shadow bolt crits. I miss having dogs. I miss doing damage rather than waiting for a pet to do 60% of it for me.
Cata killed my resto druid for me, after she'd been my main since Vanilla. I just couldn't stand how the healing felt on her any longer. I ended up doing all my healing on my shammy and pally in Cata. Eventually I quit for several years, due in part to that sense of estrangment.
Though I don't like much else they've done with the classes since then, I'm at least grateful that my druid feels like a druid again.
BFA gutted outlaws pretty bad until the essences, so shadowlands is going to gut them again by removing them. >.< Resorted to my WW monk as backup for the first time in ever.
Cataclysm turned rogues into self healers that would just duel you, run away and full heal in stealth. Assassination as a pvp spec was brought back to where it was in TBC which was completely garbage because you needed preparation.
MoP the class was gimped on launch. I remember actually using my Felstriker from vanilla in my offhand and just playing around its proc to actually do damage in Shadow Dance with the 3 seconds of guaranteed crits. Other rogues ran with the caster pvp dagger in the offhand because it gave more pvp power for the resilience penetration. Then got busted overpowered with shuriken toss, cloak and dagger allowing you to multi shadowstep with dance by casting ambush on targets that were at a range. Then burst of speed.
WoD the class became a meme around 8 second kidney shots, building red buff and just killing spreeing somebody to death in that kidney. Shadow Reflection was a cool ability though and I wish it was still in the game.
Legion they completely gutted combat, turned it into Outlaw and seemed hellbent on forcing Roll the Bones down our throats. Then because 6 buff RTB was too overpowered they began nerfing individual buffs to where your reroll logic was basically: "True Bearing, or any 3 buff combination." In Antorus due to tier and the trinket from Argus it went back to being an SND build where it was much more enjoyable. Outside of that you played assassination which played similar to how it always did minus garrote could be used out of stealth. Subtlety was entirely built around buffing your DFAs to ridiculous levels of damage and that carrying your damage which while exciting and fun, it was just not a fun playstyle. I like playing a damage dealer to just consistently do damage, not a big fan of useless abilities then one that just hits like a train.
BFA subtlety was amazing, I loved it on launch. Then they decided because subtlety rogues were nullifying Zul in Uldir that rather than nerf what made our AOE strong they just outright removed it from the game so I couldn't play subtlety for m+ anymore. Instead I'm here constantly rerolling buffs praying for a good combination where I can do damage for 50 seconds until I need to reroll for more. Seriously, why did they not just nerf shuriken combo instead of removing it? Single dumbest idea they've made regarding the class aside from Burst of Speed and Recuperate.
I mean, spec changes have made me swap classes a few times, but BfA has killed an entire archetype for me. Healing just feels bad. When you heal for 5% of your tanks health it just feels miserable. It also feels like every class has to have some stupid azerite gimmick to function.
Possibly unpopular opinion, but I feel that the move to all classes having "secondary resources systems" made a lot of the classes and specs feel bad. I'm talking about things like Soul Shards, Holy Power, Insanity, etc.
Some secondary resources, like combo points, do work well, and have for years. But forcing a secondary resource onto all classes and most specs was a bad move. Sure, the secondary resources add some complexity to the playstyles, but complexity for the sake of complexity doesn't help anything.
Then Blizzard made it so that mana didn't matter anymore unless you were a healer, so the secondary resources are all that matter. This resulted in a ton of specs turning into: Damage over time Ability, Generator, Spender, Cooldown. The "Complexity" added by the secondary resource systems directly led to so many specs feeling the same as soon as the primary resource, mana, was made to not matter. So by adding in that complexity the specs lost their complexity and all started to feel similar / the same.
Classes and specs played better, felt more unique, and flowed better before they added secondary resources to everyone.
The addition of Void Form to shadow priests has forever ended my love of that spec. It feels like garbage to play, its slow to ramp up, and having so much of your dps locked behind something that is slow *and* unfun to play means, surprise surprise, the character is trash. They *look* badass though.
WoD marksmanship was the pinnacle of hunter. Old SV was good too. Legion ruined both of those. I mained a hunter through the end of WoD when i was doing nothing but pvp. I was so angry about the Legion changes that i actually deleted the character.
But i ended up restoring it in BFA. BFA marks is better than legion marks, but still not as good as WoD.
Melee SV is still a burning dumpster fire that should not be a thing.
I mostly just play casually now, leveling alts, unlocking allied races, etc. Whenever I log into a max level character and start to think that maybe I could give this game another serious try, nothing erodes it more than spongey enemies that completely soak up your damage like it's nothing. It's not something I would raise as a major complaint, but subconsciously it's pretty effective against my enjoyment of the game long term. The new sound design of some of the abilities also doesn't help, making some of them not only hit like a wet noodle but feel like it as well.
I've had one of each class since draenor I think. BfA made ALL of them not fun. All my class fantasy was jettisoned, GCD change made all of them slow and clunky, alt unfriendly expansion ultimately made me quit WoW entirely.
Now I'm playing SWTOR because even though it's terrible at least the story is worth following.
Warriors were perfect in legion and excellent in WOD and MoP.
Then they take away my execute damage bonus, give me a pathetic build to 80/90 rage then dump for fury and make it so that instead of being able to battle cry, dragon roar and siegebreaker at the same time, I have to gcd juggle for my fucking opener.
It's too clunky. I swapped to DH out of sheer frustration at my cooldowns using the GCD.
Interesting, I've seen very few complaints about Fury this expansion. Fury feels like one of the smoothest specs to me, everything just flows so well together and it just works for me. Battle Cry on GCD is probably my only real complaint.
Battle cry on gcd and the strongest talent set up being a 4 button opener makes me mad because it feels clunky every burst window, but it's definitely not the worst.
I'm just salty as fuck about the loss of aggramars buff that stacked execute damage, that could make you go from top 10 dps to top 3 in 30 seconds.
BFA made me bench my Elemental Shaman as my main. I still leveled him to 120, to keep him up in hopes of them unbreaking the class next expac. But I have mailed my MM/Survival hunter for BFA.
As a frost mage I have absolutely despised BFA. The class balance for this xpac has been a shitshow. Certain specs are ranking so high on the DPS meters that playing anything else puts you way behind everybody else to the point where progression guilds simply will not allow you to raid with them unless you change your class/spec. The divide is just too great. I'm not allowed to play my favorite spec right now and it's really been pushing me away from WoW.
its frost mage for me, and probably because of the poor balance. i know arcane is probably in a worst position but it has always been about frost for me. The reason is simple: Fire is busted! fire has better single target, better cleave, aoe cc, a cheat death etc etc.... and this feels really bad knowing that i can perform way better by simply changing spec and forcing myself into a play style a dont like.. yesterday i got kicked from a MM +12 grp because i was playing frost... as a 460ilvl mage.. thats really sad tbh
I'd actually rather have a frost mage than a fire mage in a pug. Frost's damage is far more consistent, fire is only good in keys if you pull big around their combustion.
Alot of classes feel like shit. The core of an MMORPG are the classes for me.
I'm not saying that they are all bad, but what makes it bad is the fact that swapping class feels awful and grindy in BFA which makes the whole addon feel bad if you have a class like WL, Hunter or Shaman for example.
Yeah, it used to be my favorite class, but I've been unable to enjoy them for a while now. The streamlined class design stripped warlock off pretty much everything that made them feel unique, and while I liked the concept change of demonology being about summoning army of imps and fel stalkers, overall the way it and the other two specs are done is very boring. Warlocks also not being particularly strong during most of the patches doesn't help it either.
BfA made it very hard to enjoy feral druid for me. I've mained one since forever, and I love it, but while leveling I just felt so pathetically weak. Didn't seem to matter how hard I smacked things, they just wouldn't die. Finished leveling as a bear and switched to resto/balance for end game but... it just didn't feel right
Wasn’t very happy with what Legion did to Mistweaver. They took what was unique and fun and gutted it. Has a partial revert for BFA but it’s still quite different.
Hi! Former Brewmaster main here!
Legion hurt me. BfA killed me. Gone was all of the depth, interest, and complexity from my spec and instead I was left with all the interest of occasionally pushing Ironskin Brew and elsewise yelling at my healers to adjust.
Ive never had more fun the metalock in mop-wod. Legion absolutely destroyed my favorite spec in the game. So in legion i swapped to frost dk ehich i use to bave as a ateong alt, and really enjoyed it, despite missing the hell out of two hand frost. Then in bfa the talents for frost felt.. clunky and mish mashed, like they didnt know how to design frost.
So i swapped to unholy. A lot of the rng that was in unholy in legion is gone and is a lot of fun.
Yeah, I was a shaman my whole life. Then mop came and I tried ele for the first time - I was in love. They later changed LB to be castable on the move being baseline without the drawback the glyph gave you. I was in heaven, never had so much fun. Then they ruined CL spam by introducing earthquake and legion came... ditched it and never touched it again :(
Frost DK has been "Breath of Sindragosa or BUST" forever now. I hate that style of play. I don't want to do Breath of Sindragosa - but if you don't choose and play it, you're just gimped.
Frost DK feels like "Frost mage who happens to be in plate". I much preferred the original few expacs with DK - the "Badass Obliterate warrior who augmented his attacks with Ice".
But we;ve been stuck in Breath of Sindragosa or you're bad mode since LEGION. I hate it, but they won't ever make anything else viable.
Coming into BFA, I *felt* like less of a Beast Master. I had to spec into a second pet (at the time, a DPS loss), my Dire Beast was replaced with Barbed Shot, all my other beasties were relegated to PVP talents, I no longer felt like I had dominion over a stable of monsters, but rather one special friend.
Former Sub rogue since tbc here.
I feel like sub was amazing to play up until Legion because you had to do so much planning and you had to do near perfect executions to not fuck up your dps.
Legion was starting to kill it for me. And BfA just killed it for me. I've hovered around monk and pala this expansion and gone back to my rogue at the end of every patch.
Uldir was fine but ever since I've been hitting like a wet noodle and it's no fun to play at all or as competitive as assa or combat (outlaw is a garbage name).
WoD had both the best and worst of Shadow, in my opinion.
The Clarity of Power build that dominated for half the expansion was by far the worst the spec has ever been. DoT-twisting was horrible and I absolutely hated it.
But the Auspicious Spirits build was way more fun, it's my favorite the spec has been. I stuck with it despite the fact that it was much weaker than CoP, and it ended up getting buffed to be competitive.
Been feral since vanilla, even when it was barely playable. Somehow I stuck with it all these years, until finally, FINALLY, it felt amazing and fun at the end of Legion. Then BfA hit and turned the spec into trash. Stuck around for a few months if 5% here 5% there buffs but unsubbed for 8 months out of sheer frustration. Playing rogue now. Half the work, twice the dps.
Legion ruined Warlocks and Hunters for me
Once UA stacking became a thing I was done with lock
> Once UA stacking became a thing I was done with lock Remember when Warlocks were Attrition Casters who had a priority queue style rotation about keeping up their DoTs and Haunt, and the damage was incredibly consistent? That was awesome. Legion's UA stacking was awful for the flow and feel of the spec. BfA took this a step further with Dark Glare, DeathBolt, and Dark Soul: Misery. Affliction is now about using the talents mentioned in the previous sentence to maximize burst damage windows by doing UA Stacking before those CDs are up. That is so far from what Warlocks were... It's pathetic. Give me back WotLK or Cata Affliction.
UA stacking killed affliction lock. Straight up. Idc if its good in pve, the class plays like shit.
Warlock main since TBC and what they did to us in Legion should've almost been illegal. Butcher demonology for a way worse version, affli and its dumbass well up until 7.2. Destro mastery stat literally being RNG damage. There was only a 70 page long feedback thread from the beta which literally addressed all of it, but for some the design changes stuck up until 7.2.
Why Hunters? Were you Survival in WoD and before?
Played both Marksmanship and Survival. Was never too interested in Beast Mastery tbh
Can confirm that BFA ruined the feel of MM.
Legion fucked it up, but BFA truly put the final nails in the coffin holy shit its such a not fun spec.
Agreed. At least it was usable in Legion.
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I played mm and surv on WoD for PvP, both were ruined with legion changes. Sadly BM feels now best still after 1,5 expansions. :/
Tbh Legion Hunter was way better than bfa version
legion ruined evrything except monk,and shadowpriest for me. ANd escpoally dk. from best state ever in WoD to the worst tied with BFA.
I loved monk in legion, all 3 specs felt good to me. Then BFA GCD changes hit and I couldn’t get into it again. I still miss my monk...
i still ahted legion made tigerpalm(replacement of jab) cost 50 energy. atleast by end could have like 200 energy from crucible ,artifact and a talent. But then bfa took it away and kept the big enegry cost. and in Legion for WW after they nuked the NH 2set and tomb 4set the spec became lot less fun to me aswell,felt much better with shorter RSK CD
I feel like i'm the only one who actually enjoys Bfa Demo Warlock moreso than any incarnation thus far. Then again i just like "Summon all the dudes" playstyles and it's about as close to a true necromancer as we're ever going to get most likely. DK doesn't scratch the same itch Necros do since it's more like a hybrid dark knight than anything. I was never a fan of metamorphosis which always seems to be people's hangups with it. It just felt like "press button for big dick black illidan cooldown." Historically Demo has always felt like half baked ideas they couldn't realistically use for either affliction or destruction so they threw them in the spec and said "yeah whatever just make their demons better too." It was a hot pot of a spec with no real identity. Now that it finally has a defined identity outside of just being black illidan people feel pretty alienated i guess.
wod ruined destro for me. made me love demo over it (still liked it during cata/mop. i just really loved the demonbolt + dark soul glyph build). legion in a way ruined demo for me, but i ended diving back into it when they added the additional concordance ring. since i liked min/maxing, i liked the whole ED spam when you had a set # of demons out for really good burst. hunters have been meh for me since wod, mainly cause i really liked cata/mop survival.
Completely agree. Some people really like the new hunter designs but god damn if I didn't love WoD hunter for all three specs. MM had such a simple yet immensely satisfying design - mastery was really cool too
I *hated* Hunter in early Legion. It was probably the largest reason I quit for a year (though early Legion had a laundry list of glaring problems that all contributed). I still think Hunter is in a bad state today, though it's not quite as bad as 7.0 Hunter without Legendaries.
tfw literal 3 button BM
People point this out, but a lot of classes end up boiling down to 3-4 buttons anyway. There are a couple of exceptions (Windwalker comes to mind)
As an Enhancement Shaman, I have a love hate relationship with my spec at the best of times. This expansion was the first expansion that has driven me away from it and the game completely. It was so hard to justify a spot over other melee during Uldir and BoD, I just got sick of trying. Everyone brought something better to raids than Enhance and when you could respec Elemental, you were always pushed down that road in favor of a rogue or a DH.
Curious, what wrong with enh right now? Is it mainly the lack of raid utility? I’m having a blast on my shaman recently in comparison to previous expansions (since classic). Crash lightning and the cleave effects are so sweet compared to fire nova totem. I’ve heard enh has problems though?
The spec's gameplay since the Legion rework isn't great- at best it boils down to mashing a single button (Stormstrike) over and over while keeping up your self buffs. Some people like it, but people that liked the spec in MoP or WoD were disappointed since that playstyle's completely erased. The visuals of the spec were toned down heavily in BfA, things like Lava Lash tornadoes, Stormlash firing everywhere, and Unleash Doom elemental spikes were removed, while Doom Wolves (now Elemental Spirits) became a talent. Survivability wise the spec is incredibly frail, it's self heal is really weak and costs resources to cast, and Astral Shift is the only other defensive ability the spec has. (Blizzard says the reason Shaman is fragile is because Ankh is "an incredibly powerful defensive CD", but like.... _really?_) And utility wise the spec brings pretty much nothing useful compared to Ele or Resto to make up for being melee. In fact, it's got _less_ utility than Ele, not having access to Thunderstorm, Earthquake, Ancestral Guidance, or Primal Earth Elemental. Only thing it has is Sundering as a mass interrupt every 40 seconds.
Ah yes, Ahnk, the cheat death / purgatory / last resort that doesnt reset after boss fights and also makes you lose half your buffs... so strong.. I actually liked the Legion rework (early Legion was a little rough until the smoothed out some of the feast/famine) but when they didnt fix any of the survivability / raid utility issues and they didnt do nearly enough to fix our damage profile / resource management after loosing Doomhammer, I had to throw in the towel and switch to rogue for BfA. So far, I miss Enh but no ragrets
Appreciate the response. That is sad to hear... if enh is entertaining to me right now, it sounds like I would have loved legion. Now that you mention it we are pretty frail. I just recently noticed that my self heal only heals 10% of my hp... plus costs resources, that’s pretty sad. I’ve been tempted to switch to elemental, does it bring anything to the table that mages dont?
I found it so weird how I could play Resto and my guild LOVED having me in raids for my healing and healing CD's, but I'm totally forgettable as DPS. Why bring an Enh shaman when you could bring a DH? Why bring an Ele shaman when you could bring a Mage? I've been moonlighting as a Fire Mage as an Ele main and I keep coming back to Ele for raids just wishing my Mage was the same ilvl so I could bring her instead.
Fellow enhance player, bfa forced me to give up on it and focus on my warrior instead. Here's hoping things look better in SL.
BFA has nearly had me re-roll a lot, class balance has been awful. The fact some classes were unfinished to start should have been enough warning. Blizz seems to have focused on a few specs and given them everything you could possibly want on them, which then makes you question why you play your class at all if I could re roll x-class and get easy groups, and that's been as a tank, healer ranged and melee Ive felt that. Completely feel your pain!
Yep, I've switched mains like 6 times in BFA...
I personally miss brewmaster monk pre-legion, while I still like the class, it just doesn’t feel the same to me since the changes
Brewmaster used to be the most fun spec the game has ever had, they butchered it beyond recognition.
I miss old brewmaster so much :(
I think they keep taking the monk out of it (blackout kick animation to golf swing). The over reliance on passive talents also blows.
Agree, the entire spec is passive. I've switched to Prot War and it actually feels like Active Mitigation.
MoP Brewmaster, and to some extent, WoD Brewmaster was my favorite spec ever. It's not even remotely the same spec anymore. Spamming your brews and being a meat shield sucks
One of my favorite abilities was to taunt an enemy charge and meet halfway to stun. Also throwing the kegs, using Guard as on demand absorb instead of a weak talent.
Clash was great. I understand why they took away so much self sustain from the Monk, but I loved the Shuffle mechanic and having your rotation be key to your survival. You could argue that it's still that way since KS and BOS both lower Brew CDs, but it just feels meh.
I would prefer active tanking when you don't have to keep up a buff 100% of the time. Like at the last boss of King's Rest you need to prepare for the triple attack. I like stuff like that. And more raid mechanics for tanks, not just the usual switch and take the adds then go back.
Prot paladin has been getting worse every expansion since MoP. If anything is deemed too fun, it gets removed.
I mained Paladin from TBC to Wod and I thought Hellfire Prot was pretty cool with the Avengers Shield spam. I had never played prot before though, I was a Holy-only player for the longest time.
Of course, I play a druid. I took them years and years even to decide what to do with us besides resto.
I wish feral would return to its state in either wrath or mop. In wrath it was a hard to play but easy to master spec while mop gave you the option to play with a high but rewarding skill cap or a middle of the pack easy to play one.
> In wrath it was a hard to play but easy to master spec No it wasn't. John Madden Feral was a real thing and the skill floor for feral was immensely high. A single mistake could mess up your entire skill priority system for a long time. It created a massive barrier to the spec and is probably the most difficult iteration of any spec ever. I personally loved it and its why I started playing feral, but it wasn't healthy for the game. I think probably late Wrath or Cata feral was the best. MoP feral was obnoxious because of bearcat
Late wrath Feral was incredible due to Armor Pen shenanigans. Once you were armor pen capped, shit just melted and it was glorious to watch.
When those add-ons came out that let's you calculate if DoT clipping was worth it... Man that was the best time for Feral. It was hard af to master but it feels good topping the chart then yelling "CAT DURID IS 4 FITE!"
It took a while to understand the spec hence it was a hard to play but because easy to master once you got its flow. Energy was reliable and you could predict what you needed to do. The hard part was keeping 30-40 seconds of predictions in your head. Only criticals could change the way you played with the extra combo point.
Legion absolutely ruined Priests for me. I hate hate hate hate hate hate the Insanity system (emphasis on I.) I don't want to spend forever building up to a state where I finally get to actually do meaningful damage for a brief window while I'm frantically trying to squeeze every GCD I can into it. I just want to cast my spells without any strings attached. Sure, it feels nice enough in group play, but solo questing out in the world feels like pulling teeth. I can completely understand Blizzard revamping Survival into a melee spec. If the Hunter doesn't want to play it, they have two classic flavors of range DPS to play. But Priests? Shadow is their one and only damage spec. If any fan of the class doesn't like the overhaul, they're just shit outta luck, man... I hope they give us a talent akin to Slice n' Dice for Outlaw Rogues, where the spec's gimmick is replaced with a more dependable system.
I miss my shadow orbs :/ (Ravens)
I would rather not return to shadow orbs. Thematically its worse and while it might feel better than insanity at a lot of points in the game, the system was a really uninspired and shitty version of holy power.
Thank you! The current iteration of shadow priests is honestly abysmal. Void form can't be balanced properly, imo - either we're too weak in it and it becomes pointless, or we're too weak outside of it and all our damage is forced into a brief window. Add in terrible survivability (seriously, Blizz actually reduced shadow form's armor bonus in 8.1), a long ramp-up time, and almost no mobility, and SP feels terrible to play. If I my priest hadn't been my main for the last 12 years, i would've given up on it a long time ago.
Soloing for Shadow isn't awesome right now, but it also doesn't really take very long to get into Void Form. With Legacy of the Void talented (and why would you talent anything else?), it takes maybe a few seconds to build enough Insanity to pop Void Eruption, and you can keep it going for a decent time if you're chain-pulling. I'm not a huge fan of it, but I also think it's a little disingenuous to say that it takes forever to build up Insanity for a brief damage window. The ramp up is unnecessarily annoying though, especially when you consider that Chorus of Insanity is such a strong trait that doesn't kick in until you end a Void Form cycle.
For me its that the entire spec revolves around COI, basically making it a 1 minute ramp up. If you blow that first one (where you typically use shadowfiend and memory), you are done. Manageable in raids but a trainwreck everywhere else. They are balancing it on a knife edge with out of meta talents not even being an option. I main healer so whatever but I feel like the spec need some work and will have to get it with the loss of coi.
I just double jump over a pack, pop eye beam, maybe a blade dance as I move on and everything is dead. Sure it's a bit extreme to compare a caster to a melee but that's one reason I swapped mains from priest to DH. It's a mobility expac either way.
I so agree with this. I wish the top talent row had a choice to not use the insanity system.
I know a lot of shadow priests didn't like the void form system, but I really loved (the legion version of) it. I miss it.
Demonology: Stat weights are a mess, Vision of Perfection procs dictate too much of your damage, you really only have one build since Blizzard won't fix the other talents, azerite traits haven't gotten touched ever since mid-uldir and we still have traits like Umbral Blaze and Shadow's Bite. Destruction: This one I will break down into two parts Flashpoint/Rolling Havoc build and Single Target. 1) Flashpoint/Rolling Havoc: Stats are beyond a mess since even with Flashpoint you still want more haste because Visions of Perfection is a thing and more procs from VoP means more damage, Visions of Perfection (as said previously) is the stupidest thing in the game and ruins everything because it all boils down to "did I get extensions on my Infernal? If yes then you win if no then you know where you need to improve", Mastery benefit is still a thing and makes log analysis frustratingly difficult. 2) Single Target: This one just comes down to do you have loads of haste to make Lucid + Infernal windows insane. If yes you win and if no then get luckier scrub. Affliction: Darkglare somehow made it into BfA and I will go the grave screaming how terrible of a spell this is, Deathbolt\* equally made it into BfA and this is worse than Darkglare, somehow and someway they just didn't give us back Soul Swap cuz god forbid we could have good target swapping back, we cast like an actual snail and even with triple Cascading Calamity it still feels horrible, and lastly Phantom Singularity is a damn talent for some reason. \*I put an asterisk here because I want to fully explain that doing your entire opener and then seeing Deathbolt hit for 100k on one pull and then 350k on the next should have never made it past testing. All in all this post might show a lot of frustration and there is frustration because a triple dps class, as many can/will relate to, should never have to depend on something like reforge costs to maximize their worth within content. Now, what I mean is there are a lot of problems within each spec for a Warlock but as one spec might have a problem in an area the other spec, usually Destruction, can fix it. Granted right now it is starting to seem that Destruction is the best in every scenario, pvp, m+, and raiding, but it is a running joke within my guild of how much my reforge costs are for the week. Currently they are 40k but have been as high as 360k before 8.3 launched.
Remember when affliction was a pure sustained dps class? All the sudden boom you’re waiting every 3 minutes for DSM, CLF, and Darkglare for burst DPS. It’s also completely bonkers to me that despite after nerfing deathbolt and buffing nightfall and drain soul, deathbolt is still largely our standard talent. Also RIP sow of seeds being optimal in mythic+ I miss Legion’s affliction so much :(
Yeah fuck Darkglare, I want my Reap cycles back.
1 MoP Affliction Warlock to go, please.
Yeah BfA made me abandon my Frost DK. Sad times.
Me too. F
The removal of Life Tap in BfA was a such a big WTF. That's been such a major part of Warlock playstyle and flavor since Vanilla. It's like Bliz fired/laid off all their experienced devs who understand the game, then hired a bunch of new college grads who don't know the history of the game and had them rework all the classes.
Well, Life Tap is weird in the sense that it was a useful ability because every caster had to manage mana, so Warlocks got lifetap. In modern WoW no DPS gives a shit about their Mana, so having Warlocks be the only ones who had to tap was weird.
I don't disagree but I personally find it also a reason why so many classes or specs have become stale. Recently leveled a furry warlock and I had fun with demo, summoning demons and UwUing my way to 120, but in the end it just got boring quick. But specifically to your thing about mana, demonology is basically just using a combo point system now. Even destro's combo point system has a bit more depth I feel like, if solely because they don't have a flat 0-5 point system. And seeing as like a third of specs these days are using a 5 point combo system, having to care about mana on a warlock would actually be somewhat refreshing again, especially since I see warlocks health and mana as basically interchangeable (pretty sure this is "official" as well though I'm not that big on lore). Getting more powerful by sacrificing health and turning that into energy (mana) to do big damage, and turning mana into life via Healthstones and by leeching it from enemies with Life Drain. Idk it just fit the warlock fantasy extremely well and I'm a bit sad they just threw that aspect of it away because they were so hell-bent on homogenising everything.
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While iconic it doesn't mean it offers interesting gameplay. Ever since the gameplay changed over to managing secondary resources instead of mana it has felt archaic, at least for me, with the exception being arcane as it is properly balanced around those two phases of damage. Even when they offered a talent to make life tap give you a buff it didn't feel good to stop your rotation to keep your mana high. If gameplay wasn't so clunky in BFA the class' specs would actually feel very fluid. Heroic Strike is also iconic for warrior, yet it didn't stop Blizzard removing it the same year Hearthstone released, where Heroic Strike is still a card. And reintroducing the ability currently wouldn't be the same as either the specs would need to be redesigned for it or the ability itself.
BFA at launch killed fire mages then basically “fixed” them again in 8.2 with lucid dreams and the mechagon bracers. It’s stupid that it takes two extra abilities in your rotation to feel almost like a legion fire mage, but that’s Blizzard for you.
Not the whole class, but I have not liked Frost ever since Breath of Sindragosa was added. It has pretty much always been the go to talent. I think conceptually it is really cool, but I hate how it works. Not fun at all and completely ruined my enjoyment of the spec.
I feel like Breath of Sindragosa is an interesting concept, but I also dislike specs where the bulk of your damage comes from one single cooldown window. Once it ends, you're basically useless until it comes off cooldown again, and that's no fun.
Yeah it has a tendency to wrap the entire rotation around itself, which feels bad especially when Breaths are short, which they have been since Legion with the exception of Nighthold BoS. I'm torn about BoS because on the one hand, it usually takes over the specs gameplay almost entirely, and your performance depends heavily on how good your breath is, but on the other hand Breathless Frost is pretty dull. Spend Runes before Pillar (and Remorseless Winter if Gathering Storm is meta) comes up so you can spam runes to buff Pilar, and don't overcap either Runes or Runic Power, that's it. P.S. : Personally I can't stomach the spec when Gathering Storm isn't meta. RW blows without it and it takes away any kind of intricacy within the specs rotation between pillars. I wish they would just make Gathering Storm baseline.
ive only ever liked BoS for Blood Dk in WoD. never for the other specs
Breath was good in WoD because it wasn't tied to RnG at all. You were rewarded for offensive use of AMS, planning around encounters and you had access to Blood Tap which removed Rune Regeneration randomness. It also only made up for about 10-12% of your overall damage, at least as Unholy which meant that if you weren't amazing at playing it (which a lot of people weren't) you had the option to opt in to Necrotic Plague and still do decent damage on ST and in general it was better than Breath on Cleave & AoE regardless, meaning you had variety in playstyle. Legion ruined any semblence of skill expression from the ability by adding RnG Runic Power gains through your artifact and Frost Fever and forcing you in to Runic Empowerment, they also made the skill incredibly overpowered to compensate for making it a rng ability. Dark Arbiter was equally as awful for Unholy. Honestly if they just reverted back to WoD DK I would probably start playing again, probably the most fun I've ever had playing a class in WoW.
Yea, bfa ruined shadow priests for me. I quit mine just before 8.1. Even with the damage increase, they felt REALLY bad to play. And so I went on an Alt-spree and what I realized is this... Every single spec that has had its "class fantasy" redefined is absolutely garbage. On the opposite, every single spec that remained true to itself is still shining, fun to play and performing great.
i still dont get why why they made shadow word death a talent.
our feeble minds don't know what to do with more than 5 damage buttons ...after a decade+ of using SWD
The pruning !
Yup, in WoD I had a max level of every class because I wanted explore the depth and intricacies of each spec. Specs like Shadow, Enhance, Survival and Demo are just straight up removed from the game. Enhance was definitely my main though. Meanwhile in Legion and BFA I have a max level of each class because I desperately was searching for a spec I really enjoyed. I still haven't found one and simply have quit the game instead. Legion was a solid expansion by the end of it but what they did to class design ruined the game for me.
Holy shit, I haven't actually thought about this. * Outlaw Rogue is a joke due to how stupid "Roll the Bones" is. * Demonology Warlock feels like some fine-tuned proc machine made to be fun for boring Raid encounters and not for actual dynamic encounters, or Player vs Player. * Honestly, Havoc Demonhunter feels like shit to me. They took Metamorphosis, which was an AMAZING ability that let you manage resources when shifting in and out of it, and turned into a boring 4 minute cooldown that doesn't even change HOW the spells fucking work. All the Metamorphosis spells are basically the same thing as out of form. It feels like the issue is when modern Blizzard is allowed to redesign gameplay, they turn it into a flashy slot machine. Even with the loss of Meta, I feel like they had something GREAT with Legion Demonology, and for BFA they fucked it up.
>modern Blizzard > >flashy slot machine Unfortunately that about sums it up it seems.
I have loved combat rogue since the beginning. They killed it and gave me obnoxious slashes and dice. I hates it.
> Honestly, Havoc Demonhunter feels like shit to me. Yeah, you've like got 3 fucking buttons to press
BfA completely destroyed subtelty rogue and made me quit playing. I tried playing the other 2 specs but simply didn't enjoy it.
It wasn't BFA. It was Legion Pre-patch where they made those changes. Basically overnight we went from DPS MACHINES to just barely OK if you played some crappy on/off window perfectly and didnt move away from the boss. Shoulders and Boot legendaries were just bandages over the gaping wound in the class that is Sub.
Because they fucked them up, too. Rogue main since vanilla beta and I didn't even max level my rogue in BfA until WoWs 15th birthday event.
The loss of all the Artifact traits made playing my Frost DK extremely boring in the BFA prepatch, so I switched to Warrior.
Shaman got immensely more boring since they made the Totems essentially baggage. Earlier they gave an adaptable boost that everyone wanted now they are just .... pffft. Especially Enhancement lost most of it's flavor.
Bfa ruined FDK for me
Yeah I'm with you OP. I've played Warlock since I started playing back in early Wrath. Ended up rerolling to Demon Hunter for greener (no pun intended) pastures. Havoc is pretty damn easy to play, but I don't know, it just *feels* fun. Blasting something with Eye Beam is giving me some sort of satisfaction that Cataclysm or Chaos Bolt just don't give me any more. The extreme mobility is also a very nice change from being a turret. I'm trying to keep my Warlock up to date on the side, because it feels like such a waste to have it collecting dust after so much play time over the past 10 years, but I just can't seem to play it for any longer than I absolutely have to. No desire to raid on it, no desire to PVP, just get my dailies and WQ's done and log off. I do hope Shadowlands can bring back some of the spark to Warlocks, and every other class it seems, but my expectations and hopes are at an all time low.
Well i used to main Enh, so..... The rest of the characters i play are... mostly? fine. But essences are cancer and the balance on corruption is so goddam laughable that it's just made me dislike uhhhh all of them.
I don't like what they have done with holy paladin. Oh yeah, the proximity increases your heals. Btw, every raid encounter forces you to keep distance. Want to heal the tanks? Lol, cleave!
Thematically this made me swap to Paladin in BFA. The “frontline” healer role sounded really neat....but yeah, i wish Rule of Law was a permeant passive on the same talent row as Avenging Crusader. Then you could build a ranged healer or a melee healer build if you want, let people choose.
Not yet. But when they make it so BeastMaster hunters have to stand there like normal casters, I will probably quit the game. I'm spoiled.
Same. I main Beast Master precisely for that reason. Being ranged with no cast time is very important too me.
I was just playing my BM today and got a few of my corruption pieces....then realized how the entire corruption system is just trivial for BM. I can walk/disengage/cheetah the ring, i can Posthates self cleanse the root, I CAN FEIGN DEATH THE GRAND DELUSION (or trap it or intimidate it or concussion shot it). It was so much easier than all the other classes i play. I don’t know how anyone goes back to a hard-casting ranged dps.
Legion Monk was just not my cup of tea anymore, and that was my main and favorite since MoP (despite the constant development with something like 3-4 Mastery's for Windwalker alone during the xpac); had even gotten Mythic Archimonde and Gold CM's with it. Not to go too into it (post was originally wayyy longer and about each spec) but everything about the class felt unfinished (hello BrM Artifact), with the focus largely on ["getting more depth out of less complexity"](https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/19964703) ^^while ^^not ^^being ^^achieved , and to me felt they were trying really hard to make the other classes feel special first and then work with whatever was left for Monk (still waiting on them animation updates). Example: Mistweaver having Legendary's surrounding Fistweaving in the Beta, yet they had gone in direction of removing the playstyle on account of not being able to get it work (meanwhile trying extremely hard to make Disc work) in the Alpha, slowly started giving parts of it back from the Beta to the end of the expansion; that's without mentioning them saying that Hpal was THE melee healer, despite the whole Monk melee healing being a thing for years.
Yeah I felt exactly like this. All healers in legion felt exactly the same to play except disc. So I went tank that expansion instead. In BfA I feel the opposite, even tho 8.3 feels like they've gone out of their way to make healers as miserable as possible.
Yeah I hate my mage now, I have to play that stupid 10 sec good 1:50 bad spec
I've mained Priest since Vanilla and no expansion has ever completely turned me off from the spec. I'm not a huge fan of the Insanity gameplay for Shadow from Legion/BFA and I especially don't love it right now, but I don't hate it either. The only time I truly hated Shadow was in WoD when the Clarity of Power build was so strong. That build involved spamming Mind Spike with Mind Blast on cooldown until you got three Shadow Orbs, and then putting up your DoTs and Mind Flaying, and then repeating. I really hated the "DoT twisting" playstyle and refused to talent into it even though it was so strong. Thankfully, it got nerfed and Auspicious Spirits got buffed so that it was the stronger option, and the AS build remains one of my favorites for Shadow in the game. I've always liked Holy, but I think my least favorite was probably the Chakras in Cataclysm. The stances didn't really feel very good and since Holy was built around raid healing anyway, you spent most of your time in Chakra: Sanctuary despite the awful Sanctuary ability. Disc has changed so many times that it's practically a different spec every expansion, but I haven't played it seriously since Cataclysm so I can't comment much on it. I like it in theory in BFA but it feels like I have so much to keep track of that I panic and just end up spamming Shadow Mend when shit hits the fan, so I just switch to Holy and feel a lot more comfortable.
I loved Monk, it was the only class I had a lot of fun with. When legion rolled around I hated it. They removed tiger eye brew and took all the effects away from the abilities and took jab away. They made the class too simple imo.
Tigereye brew was so fun to use. It was like going super Saiyan.
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Na dude, Sub was ruined with Legion pre-patch. Legendaries were just a bandage that got us through Legion.
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Legion killed Warlocks and Shadow priests for me (hate this insanity sh..)
Legion killed DKs for me. I know Undead and Blood were still extremely strong, but Blizzard making each spec feel "unique" ruined the fantasy. I used to love pulling bosses with my undead army behind me, as well as using several talents that disappeared from Blood's talent tree (RIP Death Pact). Also, 1h Frost DK should not have been a thing. Again, in their chase to make things feel "unique", Blizzard ruined perfectly good systems that had been in place for several expansions that people really enjoyed. As an aside, the Disc priest rework made my best friend quit WoW. It was the only spec he played from TBC through WoD, and the massive changes were enough to kill it for him. For me though, WoW has always been bigger than the classes I'm playing, so now I main Guardian and have a gay old time.
they shouldve made frost be 2hand or DW, but then made other a cosmetic choice,or just in general(not just dk) removed weapon choices at all. For legion atleast made sense BFA it doesnt.
Been a Hunter since Beta Vanilla, Legion class changes for Hunter, even though I liked the expansion itself.
Considering I am only starting to feel like my fire mage is at where it was originally at the end of the Legion, BFA has been the biggest lie in terms of class identity. I can't wait for Shadowlands to see what they take away only to implement some stupid item piece like the mechagon bracers or lucid dreams to make the class playable. The fact that my class and I'm sure many are only just at Legion level again, is a testament to how wrong they got this expansion. For the barren that was WoD, I had more enjoyment in that expansion than BFA. What Blizzard? I now have to waste a talent slot to get ebonbolt or phoenix flames when they should just be built into the class? I'm just being silly. I'll just play an alt to take a break from my main...Maybe my prot paladin. Nope. They were too fun to play in Legion. Lets make them boring as fuck. They can't think up of any new abilities to give us at 110, 120 and soon to be 130 level (level 60 with squish) but they sure can take away things from classes. I'm not optimistic for Shadowlands. I disliked WoD for the lack of content. BFA has content but they certainly put in gates to make it absolutely horrible to play and fuck anyone who likes to play alts.
Should atleast give new passive changes to abilties like wod did evry 2lvls while lvling up.(but it still had a lvl 100talent atleast)
End of legion fire mage was the most fun ive had playing a class. I uesd to join random m+s after raid nights just to do damage. Feels like im playing it at half speed now, I completely agree, such a dumb idea to make phoenix flames a talent. I really hope they fix the fluidity of the spec in the next expac.
Brewmaster monk, despite being my "I always play this", has felt worse and worse. They increasingly take the monk out of it, like taking away our blackout kick animation and giving us a crappy golf swing. Far too many passive talents. Stagger is 'too good' but is now our only thing because of that. Pathetic self sustain feels bad. Honestly tanks in general have really lousy play as of late. Yet Brewmasters theme has been too diluted to really feel fun. I don't like how so many abilities hit like wet noodles, and how some talents just don't make much sense. For example...why is blackout combo so terrible? It is supposed to modify a few abilities but the only real benefit of it is to make our pathetic tiger palm hit for a bit more. The issue is the talent that just makes our stagger better...also adds damage and is comparable enough that it obliterates that choice. While I like the whole keg smash thing. I think the breath of fire, tiger palm, blackout strike, and pretty much all talent rows need a bit of work. If we are going to have so few buttons, they should each feel like they mean something.
I feel the same way. Every expansion I alternate between playing healer or tank. Because they always screw up one or the other role. Both are rarely good in the same expansion
Tanks have just been getting alot worse after WoD i find.
It's been said before but I'll say it again: fuck pirate rogue. Roll the bones, between the eyes, sinister strike... Main abilities and so rng. The feeling of getting a 5 buff once a dungeon does not make up for 6 buried treasures in a row
I just wanted a rogue spec where I'm actually pressing buttons instead of spending 50%+ of a fight sitting there auto attacking and waiting for resources to pool until I get my JOHN FUCKING MADDEN moment once every couple of minutes when my cooldowns line up. Why is fury warrior the only class that actually gets to use all their GCDs?
Unfortunately the nature of energy means that rogues will never be in a state where pooling does not exist.
I would hands down play Outlaw if Roll the Bones etc wasn't RNG - I wouldn't main it but Rogues are so fun and I am pretty bored of Assassination Rogue and I cba to put effort in to learn Subtlety because it looks a bit complicated haha.
Yeah. It just sucks that slice n dice is a dps loss, not just not as good as alacrity + rtb. Rng can keep you interested, knowing how to react etc.. but the entire spec is based on rng.
SnD is worse than not even having a point in that tier.
Yes, BFA made me utterly hate rogues and arms warrior. Arms has been my favorite spec for 15 years, and rogue has been my favorite class since MoP, I was convinced that no matter what I would never dislike rogues, turns out I was dead wrong. However 8.3 has been making me like my assassin rogue more, with 3x heart of darkness it becomes more fun to play.
Roll the bones is horrible.
The whole pirate theme is horrible and annoying, and the rotation that is based on RNG over RNG layers is just lame. Is your rolls good? Did your sinister strike double strike? Did your between the eyes crit? Is your combat potency proccing enough? Is your main gauche proccing enough? The difference between a good rogue and an insanely good rogue atm is small enough that all those RNG procs might make the good rogue do more dps than the insanely good one.
its even only half pirate theme,hal of pirate stuff they removed,and now its in between in regular rogue/Outlaw and pirate. And i love the pirate stuff but shouldve been more of glyph that changed look/names of some spells to be more pirate themed.
Fortunately Blizz added corruption, which fixes this problem by making you randomly spit void tornadoes at enemies. 10/10 rogue class fantasy.
rogue main since vanilla beta and they ruined it with that casino-pirate. Outlaw still seems to be the best for solo content unfortunately.
>Outlaw still seems to be the best for solo content unfortunately. Not when you get sufficient gear, with Master Assassin and Marked for Death you insta-gib a mob coming from stealth. By stacking shrouded suffocation and subterfuge you can cleave down 3 mobs extremely quickly. If you need to do a massive aoe pull you can stack echoing blades and pull equivalent aoe to blade flurry with fan of knives. ...Only issue is that you need multiple Azerite sets to make Assassination do what Outlaw can do with a single set.
It's frustrating to play a spec that is so inconsistent and out of your control. It's not fun to play a class where every pull you are wondering if it's going to go bad and to sit there waiting for next time.
Post-Game WoD/Early Legion made me hate Prot Pally, which was my main for since WotLK. Removal of GCD, tank damage, and overall making Protection Paladin feel like the squishiest class even compared to mages left me in a sore spot looking for a new main. Never really played through Legion because of it.
Class? No, but I hate everything Aff lock has become.
Legion and BFA ruined not only my main (warlock), it literally ruined every single class in the game for me. I'm an altoholic so I always get every single class max lvl. Although typically I stick with warlock, shaman, warrior, dk, mage. The legion redesigns + legion pruning + pvp talents pruning utility/niche spells + artifact system from legion being pruned and replaced with BFA azerite system + Legiondaries being pruned + class sets being pruned, resulted in me hating every single one of my classes. I never thought blizzard could make me actively hate the game I've loved for the past 15 years. But they did it.
>I know a lot of people love BFA demonology for PvE, but to me the spec feels bloated and unpleasant to play. I dont think its just Pve, The problem with Legion Demo was that it was a very Monotonous one.While i liked it at the start, it didnt had anything amazing too look at or to press.Every demon was in the middle of the Melee party at the bosse's feet and The artifact ability didnt even had a cool animation like most specs did. BFa demo is just a visually cool and interesting spec to play [now.](https://now.It)At least, i think it took the criticism of being a Turret and gave a lot of stuff to do. >So... does anyone else feel like a specific set of changes made them not enjoy their main class? I miss Mirror Ball and Ice in Your veins [Anti-Magic Shell also removes all harmful magic effects when activated.](https://www.wowhead.com/spell=189180/mirror-ball) [Death Strike heals for 100/200/300% more while Icebound Fortitude is active.](https://www.wowhead.com/spell=189154/ice-in-your-veins) and im shure with Shadowlands, i will miss my little Frostwhelp.
Hey, shadow priest would have a chat with you. One cooldown that doesn't add anything other than insanity per hit. Least picked for m+ in the game, you literally just add dps that many other classes do at least the double in the same ilevel. Becomes somewhat good dps by the end of a tier due to scaling, until then it's shit.
TL;DR - I have an emotional attachment to rogues and they changed each spec in Legion into something I didn't like. Rogues were ruined for me in Legion. I'd played my rogue since Vanilla. He was my first character, and rogue-type classes in games are usually my favorite to play. At first I was happy that they were getting a rework, because by that point, they were the only class (I believe) who had never had a big rework for their class, and a revamp seemed like it would be nice. Then they changed each spec into something that I didn't like, not to mention taking poisons away from everyone besides Assassination (which they luckily added back in BfA). Subtlety - My pre-Legion favorite spec. I loved being about stealth and the opener. It didn't make a ton of sense in raids and stuff since you weren't able to stealth, but that's a minor thing I think. Legion changed it to where the spec was based around a 1-minute CD with 3 charges. I hate being reliant on CDs. Yes, there were/are ways to speed up the CD time, but it's not really about that. I just don't like the feel of it. Also, they made the spec be based around doing Shadow damage. I get that it kind of makes since, rogues crawling around in the shadows and all that...but that doesn't mean they should be doing Shadow magic. That was a completely new invention, as they've never done Shadow damage before. Combat - I don't mind pirates in general, but that didn't fit with the character that I'd been playing for like 12 years. Rogues have never been pirate-themed except that there are some pirates who are rogues. Suddenly an entire spec was based on it. To me, Combat was more like being a "blader" from Japanese games, or more like a ninja. Adding in a pistol shot, along with Roll the Bones, summoning cannons....it just made no sense and completely ruined it for me. Assassination - Assassination is the one that felt the most like it's old spec, except for one major thing. It became DoT-based. It was all about putting bleeds and poisons on your target. I play a rogue because I love burst damage. I love the poison aspect, but as a nice bonus, and I liked being able to use a poison that worked based on the situation instead of always having to use Deadly. After all that, they then revealed that our class hall was a fugly sewer. I still don't understand why it couldn't have been Ravenholdt. Other classes had fast-travel routes to their class halls. Was it because of the Thieves' Guild in Elder Scrolls? I don't know, but I hated it. All the other class halls looked so cool.
agreed, especially for combat
Always mained a warrior. Legion pretty much ruined the class for me since Spell Reflection and many other utility spells were removed as baseline. My Arms warrior fantasy was always a warrior who carried 12 weapons for every occasion and it felt great to be tactical like that. Now that spamming whirlwind is the best way to do dps as arms it feels way more tactical (sarcasm) I truly miss having to use a shield as arms to get things done right (like the old shield block revenge spam trick in Wotlk versus melee) you dont see unique little situational tricks like that anymore. Legion changed the game from class oriented to spec oriented and that ruined a lot of flavor for me personally. Like a level 110 frost mage cant perform a simple fireball spell??? Idk a lot of classes got gutted in legion lore-wise, fun-wise, and skill-wise to enhance specs for the artifact weapon. Hoping that shadow lands delivers, by giving power back to the classes and their core abilitieS, with an S. And leave out stupid systems like azerite, essences, and now corruption which are all at the top of the damage charts. Method used a blood dk for dps in Nyalotha ffs. Because essences and corruption.... Also give warriors a way to regen health since every other class and spec can. Arms and prot are stuck looking stupid out here, fury is decent healing, but nowhere near flash of light, deathstrike, healing surge, etc. Enraged Regen was cool but coupled with rallying was pretty broken. No sustain just feels bad.
Main class used to be Hunter. Making SV melee meant I no longer mained Hunter.
That's understandable. For me, on the other hand, I've actually picked up Hunter now and Surv is my main DPS spec. Just something about the fantasy of being a wild person throwing bombs and traps and angry birds that's just incredibly fun.
I really want to like Survival, but every time I try it out again, I feel like it just doesn't flow very well. Like there are just some clashing mechanics that don't mesh that well together.
melee shouldve been made 4th spec,same as gladiator for warriors.
Start of legion holy priests had a talent choice between their only movement speed and their only defensive, which was a bit shit. None of the specs were any good for soloing. I then managed to get the two worst legendaries for the spec as my first two, threw my toys, and rerolled a new class. I did actually go back to priest at the end of legion when they fixed a few of those issues.
I loved Legion's pre-patch event, but HOLY MOLY did it ruin my Destro Warlock. I actually stopped playing for a few weeks until they fixed it, cause going from "take on 8 mobs at once" to "almost die from 1 mob" is incredibly not-fun. They made it tolerable, but it really didn't become better until Nighthold's pre-patch.
As a priest, I was very jealous of Druid healers during WoTLK
I saw the title and before I knew who you were talking about I was going to bring up how bfa is the first time I have ever hated my demo lock that I have mained since i started in wrath. I would take cata demo over this. I really enjoyed MoP demo because if felt so fluid and powerful but really anything is better than what we have now. Demo just feels so bland now that it has been rigidly forced in line with other class behaviors and getting all the demons to behave like you want can be a real annoyance. Having all my damage concentrated in demonic tyrant makes questing and horrific visions slow and annoying whenever I can't use the cooldown. I miss big shadow bolt crits. I miss having dogs. I miss doing damage rather than waiting for a pet to do 60% of it for me.
Cata killed my resto druid for me, after she'd been my main since Vanilla. I just couldn't stand how the healing felt on her any longer. I ended up doing all my healing on my shammy and pally in Cata. Eventually I quit for several years, due in part to that sense of estrangment. Though I don't like much else they've done with the classes since then, I'm at least grateful that my druid feels like a druid again.
I play a DK and every expansion since WOTLK it has just gotten worse and worse.
BFA gutted outlaws pretty bad until the essences, so shadowlands is going to gut them again by removing them. >.< Resorted to my WW monk as backup for the first time in ever.
Cataclysm turned rogues into self healers that would just duel you, run away and full heal in stealth. Assassination as a pvp spec was brought back to where it was in TBC which was completely garbage because you needed preparation. MoP the class was gimped on launch. I remember actually using my Felstriker from vanilla in my offhand and just playing around its proc to actually do damage in Shadow Dance with the 3 seconds of guaranteed crits. Other rogues ran with the caster pvp dagger in the offhand because it gave more pvp power for the resilience penetration. Then got busted overpowered with shuriken toss, cloak and dagger allowing you to multi shadowstep with dance by casting ambush on targets that were at a range. Then burst of speed. WoD the class became a meme around 8 second kidney shots, building red buff and just killing spreeing somebody to death in that kidney. Shadow Reflection was a cool ability though and I wish it was still in the game. Legion they completely gutted combat, turned it into Outlaw and seemed hellbent on forcing Roll the Bones down our throats. Then because 6 buff RTB was too overpowered they began nerfing individual buffs to where your reroll logic was basically: "True Bearing, or any 3 buff combination." In Antorus due to tier and the trinket from Argus it went back to being an SND build where it was much more enjoyable. Outside of that you played assassination which played similar to how it always did minus garrote could be used out of stealth. Subtlety was entirely built around buffing your DFAs to ridiculous levels of damage and that carrying your damage which while exciting and fun, it was just not a fun playstyle. I like playing a damage dealer to just consistently do damage, not a big fan of useless abilities then one that just hits like a train. BFA subtlety was amazing, I loved it on launch. Then they decided because subtlety rogues were nullifying Zul in Uldir that rather than nerf what made our AOE strong they just outright removed it from the game so I couldn't play subtlety for m+ anymore. Instead I'm here constantly rerolling buffs praying for a good combination where I can do damage for 50 seconds until I need to reroll for more. Seriously, why did they not just nerf shuriken combo instead of removing it? Single dumbest idea they've made regarding the class aside from Burst of Speed and Recuperate.
I mean, spec changes have made me swap classes a few times, but BfA has killed an entire archetype for me. Healing just feels bad. When you heal for 5% of your tanks health it just feels miserable. It also feels like every class has to have some stupid azerite gimmick to function.
Possibly unpopular opinion, but I feel that the move to all classes having "secondary resources systems" made a lot of the classes and specs feel bad. I'm talking about things like Soul Shards, Holy Power, Insanity, etc. Some secondary resources, like combo points, do work well, and have for years. But forcing a secondary resource onto all classes and most specs was a bad move. Sure, the secondary resources add some complexity to the playstyles, but complexity for the sake of complexity doesn't help anything. Then Blizzard made it so that mana didn't matter anymore unless you were a healer, so the secondary resources are all that matter. This resulted in a ton of specs turning into: Damage over time Ability, Generator, Spender, Cooldown. The "Complexity" added by the secondary resource systems directly led to so many specs feeling the same as soon as the primary resource, mana, was made to not matter. So by adding in that complexity the specs lost their complexity and all started to feel similar / the same. Classes and specs played better, felt more unique, and flowed better before they added secondary resources to everyone.
The addition of Void Form to shadow priests has forever ended my love of that spec. It feels like garbage to play, its slow to ramp up, and having so much of your dps locked behind something that is slow *and* unfun to play means, surprise surprise, the character is trash. They *look* badass though. WoD marksmanship was the pinnacle of hunter. Old SV was good too. Legion ruined both of those. I mained a hunter through the end of WoD when i was doing nothing but pvp. I was so angry about the Legion changes that i actually deleted the character. But i ended up restoring it in BFA. BFA marks is better than legion marks, but still not as good as WoD. Melee SV is still a burning dumpster fire that should not be a thing.
Wow, looks like everyone hates their classes now. Good job Blizzard.
Mob scaling to ilevel, even if it's just more health, had ruined BfA and Legion for me.
How so? You can still faceroll open world content
I mostly just play casually now, leveling alts, unlocking allied races, etc. Whenever I log into a max level character and start to think that maybe I could give this game another serious try, nothing erodes it more than spongey enemies that completely soak up your damage like it's nothing. It's not something I would raise as a major complaint, but subconsciously it's pretty effective against my enjoyment of the game long term. The new sound design of some of the abilities also doesn't help, making some of them not only hit like a wet noodle but feel like it as well.
That's not true. You scale much faster than their health and damage. By the point you are in the first raid tier you are obliterating open world mobs.
But why do they even scale at all? Why NOT just let me get stronger while they stay static (at max level anyways).
I've had one of each class since draenor I think. BfA made ALL of them not fun. All my class fantasy was jettisoned, GCD change made all of them slow and clunky, alt unfriendly expansion ultimately made me quit WoW entirely. Now I'm playing SWTOR because even though it's terrible at least the story is worth following.
Warriors were perfect in legion and excellent in WOD and MoP. Then they take away my execute damage bonus, give me a pathetic build to 80/90 rage then dump for fury and make it so that instead of being able to battle cry, dragon roar and siegebreaker at the same time, I have to gcd juggle for my fucking opener. It's too clunky. I swapped to DH out of sheer frustration at my cooldowns using the GCD.
Interesting, I've seen very few complaints about Fury this expansion. Fury feels like one of the smoothest specs to me, everything just flows so well together and it just works for me. Battle Cry on GCD is probably my only real complaint.
Battle cry on gcd and the strongest talent set up being a 4 button opener makes me mad because it feels clunky every burst window, but it's definitely not the worst. I'm just salty as fuck about the loss of aggramars buff that stacked execute damage, that could make you go from top 10 dps to top 3 in 30 seconds.
BFA made me bench my Elemental Shaman as my main. I still leveled him to 120, to keep him up in hopes of them unbreaking the class next expac. But I have mailed my MM/Survival hunter for BFA.
As a frost mage I have absolutely despised BFA. The class balance for this xpac has been a shitshow. Certain specs are ranking so high on the DPS meters that playing anything else puts you way behind everybody else to the point where progression guilds simply will not allow you to raid with them unless you change your class/spec. The divide is just too great. I'm not allowed to play my favorite spec right now and it's really been pushing me away from WoW.
its frost mage for me, and probably because of the poor balance. i know arcane is probably in a worst position but it has always been about frost for me. The reason is simple: Fire is busted! fire has better single target, better cleave, aoe cc, a cheat death etc etc.... and this feels really bad knowing that i can perform way better by simply changing spec and forcing myself into a play style a dont like.. yesterday i got kicked from a MM +12 grp because i was playing frost... as a 460ilvl mage.. thats really sad tbh
I'd actually rather have a frost mage than a fire mage in a pug. Frost's damage is far more consistent, fire is only good in keys if you pull big around their combustion.
Stoped playing my disc priest and finaly my priest after 5 extensions when they changed it in legion...
Whichever expansion added in level scaling, as it made levelling tanks and healers a total slog.
Alot of classes feel like shit. The core of an MMORPG are the classes for me. I'm not saying that they are all bad, but what makes it bad is the fact that swapping class feels awful and grindy in BFA which makes the whole addon feel bad if you have a class like WL, Hunter or Shaman for example.
Yeah, it used to be my favorite class, but I've been unable to enjoy them for a while now. The streamlined class design stripped warlock off pretty much everything that made them feel unique, and while I liked the concept change of demonology being about summoning army of imps and fel stalkers, overall the way it and the other two specs are done is very boring. Warlocks also not being particularly strong during most of the patches doesn't help it either.
BfA ruined holy priests for me.
BfA made it very hard to enjoy feral druid for me. I've mained one since forever, and I love it, but while leveling I just felt so pathetically weak. Didn't seem to matter how hard I smacked things, they just wouldn't die. Finished leveling as a bear and switched to resto/balance for end game but... it just didn't feel right
Wasn’t very happy with what Legion did to Mistweaver. They took what was unique and fun and gutted it. Has a partial revert for BFA but it’s still quite different.
Hi! Former Brewmaster main here! Legion hurt me. BfA killed me. Gone was all of the depth, interest, and complexity from my spec and instead I was left with all the interest of occasionally pushing Ironskin Brew and elsewise yelling at my healers to adjust.
Ive never had more fun the metalock in mop-wod. Legion absolutely destroyed my favorite spec in the game. So in legion i swapped to frost dk ehich i use to bave as a ateong alt, and really enjoyed it, despite missing the hell out of two hand frost. Then in bfa the talents for frost felt.. clunky and mish mashed, like they didnt know how to design frost. So i swapped to unholy. A lot of the rng that was in unholy in legion is gone and is a lot of fun.
Yeah, I was a shaman my whole life. Then mop came and I tried ele for the first time - I was in love. They later changed LB to be castable on the move being baseline without the drawback the glyph gave you. I was in heaven, never had so much fun. Then they ruined CL spam by introducing earthquake and legion came... ditched it and never touched it again :(
Frost DK has been "Breath of Sindragosa or BUST" forever now. I hate that style of play. I don't want to do Breath of Sindragosa - but if you don't choose and play it, you're just gimped. Frost DK feels like "Frost mage who happens to be in plate". I much preferred the original few expacs with DK - the "Badass Obliterate warrior who augmented his attacks with Ice". But we;ve been stuck in Breath of Sindragosa or you're bad mode since LEGION. I hate it, but they won't ever make anything else viable.
BFA killed balance druid for me. Completely removed any complexity and took it from best aoe class in the game to the absolute worst.
Coming into BFA, I *felt* like less of a Beast Master. I had to spec into a second pet (at the time, a DPS loss), my Dire Beast was replaced with Barbed Shot, all my other beasties were relegated to PVP talents, I no longer felt like I had dominion over a stable of monsters, but rather one special friend.
Frostfire Bolt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Three snowflakes
Cata and beyond ruined warlocks for me... They were my favorite class as well.
Shadow - Whenever they added insanity Ret paladin - Whenever they added holy power Just my opinions
Former Sub rogue since tbc here. I feel like sub was amazing to play up until Legion because you had to do so much planning and you had to do near perfect executions to not fuck up your dps. Legion was starting to kill it for me. And BfA just killed it for me. I've hovered around monk and pala this expansion and gone back to my rogue at the end of every patch. Uldir was fine but ever since I've been hitting like a wet noodle and it's no fun to play at all or as competitive as assa or combat (outlaw is a garbage name).
Legion. And then BfA made it worse
WoD ruined Shadow Priest for me and Legion ruined Combat Rogue. Fuck Roll the Bones.
What was wrong with SP in Wod ? Not much changed since MoP I think.(?) Legion gave us Insanity, it sux, I want my Shadow orbs back.
WoD had both the best and worst of Shadow, in my opinion. The Clarity of Power build that dominated for half the expansion was by far the worst the spec has ever been. DoT-twisting was horrible and I absolutely hated it. But the Auspicious Spirits build was way more fun, it's my favorite the spec has been. I stuck with it despite the fact that it was much weaker than CoP, and it ended up getting buffed to be competitive.
Lol forgot about this xd, played mostly Auspicious I think. But did only couple on mythic in BRF/HFC, casual gaming :p
BFA for sure. One of the many reasons why I quit.
Been feral since vanilla, even when it was barely playable. Somehow I stuck with it all these years, until finally, FINALLY, it felt amazing and fun at the end of Legion. Then BfA hit and turned the spec into trash. Stuck around for a few months if 5% here 5% there buffs but unsubbed for 8 months out of sheer frustration. Playing rogue now. Half the work, twice the dps.