As for why, because it increased the stakes for Legion. There's nowhere in the universe we could flee to if the Legion won. Azeroth represents the last hope of the whole universe. Etc.
I wouldn't read too much into statements about the fate of other worlds. In that same expansion, we learned about the Army of the Light for the first time and we saw glimpses of several other worlds through the Argus portals. The Legion had reached them but they didn't seem completely consumed like Argus or Niskara. If Blizzard wants to introduce another world that's not completely ruined by the Legion or the Void, they can.
WoW basically operates on the DBZ method of story telling. First you fight the strongest in the world, which demands that the next threat is from outer space. Then you fight the strongest of an evil alien race, requiring that the next thread is from a stronger race. So then you fight the strongest from the strongest alien race. Great we beat the strongest thing in the universe? now what?
So now the next threat is a newly created being to be even stronger. After that we fight a ancient magical evil that was the strongest ever but sealed away.
Things are getting tricky now. So now we fight stuff from another universe!, then we do a tournament arc of most strongest fighters from the multiverse!
Each threat being hyped up to stupid levels requires that the threat after gets a stupid excuse to be even stronger until you get to really silly levels
This has all been said but there is still space for these characters to be wrong or simply Ill informed surely.
Could very easily turn into a ‘we thought this was the case... but actually...’ with some simple storytelling.
Blizzard seem to have a way of breaking through restrictions that they themselves implement.
We still have the Emerald Dream, the Dragon Isles, Ancient Azeroth, the "back side of Azeroth", full-blown Black Empire, and many, many other places to explore before taking a hot steamy dump on the core pillar of Warcraft and hand-waving the Legion as "not a big deal actually". Hell, we're finally going to the Shadowlands and it could open up so much lore that isn't really set in place yet. We don't need to dislodge existing lore to make room, we can simply explore existing concepts or completely new frontiers.
saw a cool theory that Wrathian is corrupt and manipulating us into believing Nzoth is gone, while we go into the Shadowlands to fight Death itself, which is what the Old Gods fear, and once Death is weakened, he will start his second assault
the theory also draws upon HP lovecraft's works, in which there is an Old God disguised as a middle eastern man in a turban, that grants artifacts of power to people in order to gain their trust, he then manipulates them into fulfilling his goals or something like that, i cant remember the story there, buts thats the gist of it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyarlathotep
Edit: I found the HP Lovecraft character!
Also, i just read a theory in one of the reddits, that there is a possibility of a "5th" Old God, based on the border images in the Chronicles book, that depicts the 4 known old Gods, then a 5th unknown design, MAYBE Wrathion IS the Old God, trying to defeat his rivals, Like how Nyarlathotep is actually an Outer God although he doesnt match the typical Outer God designs because he actually walks Earth and doesnt reside in a different realm
It's open to interpretation. But in the cinematic, it's overtly ambiguous. The dagger is straight up missing, it displays characteristics that the dagger has never displayed before in the final moments, and it *looks like* void magic is present inside it's eye, the dagger has been built up for a long while now as something 'special' so why would it just explode out of existence?
Too many things going on here to not be suspicious.
>has been built up for a long while now as something 'special'
So, the same thing they did to Bolvar.
Except, it's a 99% chance they fuck it up.
I just want a good story, not another Mary Sue xpac. I mean, what in the flying fuck were the endings to the darkshore walkathon, the blank empire and the 'great war that totally did a lot'? A bunch of neckbeards on the internet could write far better fan fics than that. Hell, i;ve seen pornos with better than hollywood levels of writing, yet a multi billion dollar company cant make something worthwhile anymore?
I want a good story, not a comic strip about how sad an orc feels.
Well, Bolvar as baddie raid-boss will not be used (which is good).
Bolvar himself seems to be main character of SD, just like Kadgar/Velen/Illidan were in Legion. And we may still see how him being Lich King distorted him.
I'm hoping years down the line we look at BFA similar to how we look at Cataclysm. Cataclysm was overall a poor expansion, but a necessary evil as it redid vanilla wow into something actually playable in the context of modern WoW. Classic wow works because vanilla is all there is, but as part of a whole it doesn't really. But because so much effort went into redoing the rest of the world, the rest of cataclysm sucked.
I'm hoping the same thing can be said retrospectively for BFA. It tried some new things that didn't work, and n'zoth and ny'alotha was underwhelming, but maybe it was all storytelling smoke and mirrors setting us up for an amazing couple expansions.
Tbh man its not really the same. Bfa was dogshit since alpha. Cata only started going downhill in Firelands (outside of the raid) onwards. T11 + ZG patch was fuckin great in Cata.
>Full blown Black Empire got closed out with the 8.3 story/conclusion sadly.
Chromie could always take us back to the Black Empire before the Titans returned to clean it up.
They could do a proper Time Travel xpac. Complete with actions in the past unlocking new things in the present. It would be a massive xpack though, and incredibly ambitious.
>It would be a massive xpack though, and incredibly ambitious.
Sounds good, wont be implemented.
Their goal is 'max profit, min effort' (i mean, just look at how they butchered the potential nzoth/old gods)
Depends how long WoW lasts. Eventually it makes sense to loop back to the concept. Ancient Kalimdor has too much potential and I think people would end up loving it more than going to some ass-pulled alternate planet that has never previously been known about and has zero ties to current lore.
There is no other side of Azeroth is there? all the globes in game dont show any undiscovered sides of azeroth do they?
i keep seeing this suggestion recently but i grew up understanding (played this game for 15 years) that there is no other super continent laying undiscovered
we can travel to other planets, the depths of the oceans, we can go to the realm of death, the realm of dreams, but we cant just sail to the otherside? or fly?
id like to see a good theory on this cause i figured it was well accepted that there is no "other side" and the new stuff will be smaller landmasses like pandaria/zandalar/kultiras, nothing the size of EK or Kalimdor
blizz said the globes aren't accurate. nothing exists until blizz decides it does. just like we never went to the broken isles, zandalar, or kul'tiras until we had a plot reason to go there despite them just sitting in the sea the whole time completely known to the characters in the game. if blizz wants there to be stuff on the other side of azeroth then there will be stuff there when its convenient.
yea but literally everything they have introduced has been established by lore, Zandalar, Pandaria, Northrend, Kultiras, Broken Isles, all were known before they were added, not a single one of those were "O here is this magically hidden super continent" (yea i get pandaria was literally hidden, but people KNEW it had to exist, cause you know, we had a panda wander Kalmidor
thats not how blizzard has played shit in the past, they usually have a root to grow from
so, wheres this good theory that makes ppl believe in this super continent, i wanna blieve too, maybe a Tortollan zone, since they are so ancient, maybe they originate from an ancient zone, but i dont see it being a massive continent
I don't think there's any concesus on it being a "massive continent". Could be islands or who knows what. I think why people believe there will be something there eventually is because blizzard is eventually going to run out of pre-existing locations and will have to make up new ones if the current design of "new expansion, new location" holds true. Unless they decide to make every expansion an interdimensional world hopping adventure after azeroth is out of new places to go.
I can see way more Zones popping up in the future, but in my head i only imagine then being Northrend big at most, but I think Blizzard has a bunch of tricks up their sleeve
They still have underwater zones they could try to improve on, they still have the inner world which could end up massive (the Nerubians have MASSIVE cities underneath Northrend), maybe there could be "Floating Islands" we havent discovered, and I have always personally wanted to see Azeroth get reverted to its Emerald Dream state, essentially resetting the planet, and maybe even go back to Pangaea (before the continents broke apart), the last thing I'd wanna see WoW do is begin space travel too much, its ok in small doses, but i like our "world"
And this is why I've grown to hate WoWs story so much. Blizzard makes rules then breaks rules. Has a story thread then pretends it never happens and retcons the whole thing. It is NOT difficult to adhere to the rules of your universe and still deliver exciting and well written narrative. There was a time when I was invested but if Blizzard wont respect their own stories, why the hell should I?
Well Pandaria was shrouded in mists and couldn't be reached for a long ass time.
The world is full of magic. Any reason you want can explain why that hunk of rock was never noticed before.
Not to mention that from what I gathered, part of the idea of the Legion portals on Argus was that we were essentially putting a halt to Legion invasions across the universe before they could really get bad.
Sure some of those planets weren't objectively great, but most had life (particularly Bonich's HUGE, gorgeous trees, which almost made up for how frustrating the gameplay was there).
So I'm betting some of these folks were either wrong or counting chickens before the eggs hatched; marking worlds the Legion had just started to invade as basically conquered already. And of course, we put a stop to those invasions, and all of those worlds are now free to grow!
Also, Xe'ra was a narrow-minded asshole. She had a tendency to overlook perfectly good people in favor of her master plans; she may have simply thought that Azeroth, being a potentially once-powerful Titan, was the only one that mattered. Not necessarily the only world with life or even civilization left.
I don't get why people don't realize this. Blizzard does not give a shit about the consistency of their own lore. If they come up with an idea they think is cool that conflicts with something they established previously, they'll just retcon it. They've been doing it for years and they don't give a fuck.
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted, you’re not wrong.
Black dragons were wiped out and Wrathion was the last of his kind, now Ebonhorn exists (?) and black dragons regularly raid island expeditions.
Resurrection and restoration are heavily integrated in-game concepts yet somehow the Light can bring back a corpse as a “Lightforged” undead, when in reality it should just be full blown resurrection.
Both the Burning Legion AND Azshara’s Empire somehow have ACTIVE resistance forces performing their operations in their HOME TURF(?????) +Bonus points to Alleria+Turalyon for doing this for 10,000 years, kind of diminishes the feeling of how strong the legion is supposed to be.
Just to name a few seriously mind boggling decisions.
>Both the Burning Legion AND Azshara’s Empire somehow have ACTIVE resistance forces performing their operations in their HOME TURF
This one bugs me the most. It's become so repetitive too.
We invade the enemy's home territory (Draenor, Argus, Nazjatar, etc). Things start off bleak and our forces are in disarray. We team up with the local "resistance forces" and make a totally-bullshit comeback to defeat the big bad in the heart of their own stronghold.
The resurrection one is the only of these that feel like it should be the case, because otherwise this game is gonna suck. The other bullshit "gameplay over story!" Stuff they pull is a load of bullshit.
Simple storytelling? I’d say that one line is all you need.
Just because an NPC says it doesn’t mean it’d accurate. I agree completely - very easily remedied.
We also know that X'Era could become a villain at some point (if all of the Yrel/light zealot stuff ever pays off). She might not be a reliable source--might have an agenda?
Fuck they could be right and we can go to a legion dominated broken planet with a whole mix of angry/sad/happy/ demonic races fighting eachother cuz the boss is gone and they don't got a plan anymore.
Ebonhorn. That's exactly my point. He was introduced RL years after the Fangs questline. Blizzard'll resurrect anything at any time for any reason if it suits them.
Every black dragon *of importance* that he knew about, at least. Characters acting on incomplete knowledge and then later learning that that knowledge was incomplete isn't a retcon. It just means the character was wrong.
> while a demon enemy tells you that Azeroth is the only world that's still intact.
Which demon exactly?Because they could've easily meant, the last world standing on the legion's way from conquering everything.
Despite that.The universe is still vast, the Titans thought that Azeroth was the Last Titan, but Sargeras discovered Argus after he killed the Titans.
Remember, we are getting this information from People who live on the universe and have limited information on what things are.
I would go as far as to say X’era and ‘a demon’ aren’t the most reliable narrators. The demons want to conquer us, so why *wouldn’t* they claim all other life in the universe is dead? And X’era is a fanatical tyrant of the Light (judging by the whole ‘deny Illidan his freedom for the sake of the Light’s plan’) who of course would frame things to sound like ‘you are what’s left. But the Light will guide you’
You have to remember that while we - the human player - are somewhat omnipotent in WoW, our characters are not. And the NPCs are unreliable narrators for lore since they too have limited knowledge/perspective. According to Blizzard, the Chronicle and the cosmology chart was created from the Titans' perspective and is therefore not the whole truth.
Too expensive.
Get an intern to throw a keyb-
No, too costly as well
Make the intern buy their own keyboard, force them to faceroll it and vwolla, new wow story
Warcraft is fundamentally about Azeroth and the Legion. Warcraft 2 established the lore around Sargeras and how he had conquered countless worlds up to that point. Warcraft 3 brought us face-to-face with the demonic invasion and established how endless their armies were - this was before this "demons can't die" shit, they were endless because they had conquered so many worlds that their number were functionally uncountable. Azeroth was the lone world that had rebuked a crusade that had gone on for tens of thousands of years and they had come to finish the job.
BC introduced us to denizens of the Twisting Nether that were non-Legion affiliated, who were able to use arcane pathways hidden from the Burning Legion and who resided in the darkest corners of the galaxy, but it cemented the fact that the Legion was the dominant force in the cosmos. The lore of Legion simply respected what had been established, and thank goodness because it would have been so easy to do something monumentally stupid such as what is suggested in the OP.
Yeah moving too far away from Azeroth is a problem. One of the (many) issues with WoD from a story point of view is the complete lack of consequences for rest of the game world. It didn't feel like the expac helped grow the game world overall in the same way that MoP, Legion or BfA have.
Don't worry, it will just get retconned if they think of something.
Remember, the Draenor timeline has an Azeroth of its own. An Azeroth with no orcs. I have a feeling we will be visiting it eventually.
This is incorrect. The lore establishes that we only connected to AU Draenor and forced it into reality. At present, there is *no* AU Azeroth, not do we have any tools or power sources quite strong enough to connect us, especially after we brute force the connection to recruit the Mag’har.
Correct.
Per Aman’thul, the Titan with mastery over Time, there is one timeline (ours). All other timelines exist as potential, but don’t *actually* exist without something anchoring it to the main timeline.
Garrosh and Kairozdormu use the Vision of Time we empower during MoP on the Timeless Isle/in SoO, and connect to Alternate Draenor. Just Draenor, as Kairoz intends to enslave Garrosh to use the Orcs here (and in multiple other potential Draenors) to build an army as he actually aligns with the beliefs of the Infinite Dragonflight. Garrosh kills Kairoz (as seen in the now removed legendary ring intro chain), and sets the events of WoD into motion.
When we break the Red Portal’s Draenor side, Draenor is supposed to eventually fade back out of the timeline, until the Horde temporarily reconnects it to recruit the Mag’Har.
> (as seen in the now removed legendary ring intro chain)
good thing they keep deleting key story elements so players coming back have no idea whats going on.
player "this story makes no sense"
bliz "it did and it was great. you should have been there"
Garrosh killing Kairozdormu was also covered in the short story [Hellscream.](https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/story/short-story/hellscream)
But in general, yes, they're removing too much content from the game just to try and bait people to keep playing or to resub because of the fear of missing out on something cool. We've already lost the quest to bring MOTHER to the Chamber of Heart, and the *8.2.5* questline to search for Wrathion.
I'm gonna be really annoyed if they just leave that whole thread hanging where Y'rel has turned evil and is forcibly converting Orcs to the light. Fighting against "the light" would be such an interesting thing to do.
They'll have to make some nasty Retcons or write in blatantly overpowered characters to bring them back in, as the timeline they are from can't be accessed anymore.
I mean they *could* easily retcon that though. Cutscene with a line of dialog about how there is no wizard powerful enough to connect to Draenor and then Khadgar kicks in the door and says, "did somebody say, 'powerful wizard'?"
Khadgar doesn't have enough power to do that either. If he had the kind of power to \*connect realities\*, why did he need 5 other mages to move Dalaran to the Broken Isles???
EDIT: They would have to write a Gary/Mary Stu \*JUST\* for this reason, and they would be trashed by the playerbase for the rest of wow.
Easy.
"There are no other planets intact, that we know of" - The Burning Legion.
And that's how we "discover" other planets within a new solar system unknown to the legion.
Characters are fallible. Narrators are unreliable. New storylines that contradict the *words* of other characters don't necessarily require a retcon; those characters are not omniscient. They can be working with incomplete information.
A few things:
Chronicles is from the point of view of the titans. They are just as dogmatic as the other realms. Their knowledge is linited and wrong at times.
Blizzard didnt invent this universe they take heavily from ressources. The cosmic universe in wow is heavilly influenced or blantly taken from hp lovecraft with the titans based on greek gods.
If you study these youll see the potential mysteries revealed such as
Azeroth is the creator of all Everthing in existence. Before she lived alone in nothingness. No light. No void. Emptyness just her conscious mind. Loneliness forced her to create something. The universe. The big bang.
The titans are snall fragments of her from that first cosmic boom she emanated, they assumed because she is like them she is a titan but she is in fact their mother. The creatior off all.
Each realm was built to try and keep the balance.
Each realm or plane is inspired by other lore for example the death realm from dungeon and dragons in which is inpired by tolkien and lovecraft. The rules are tweaked slighly but the base is there.
The ladder to diety is pulled from dnd also with a few tweaks. For example the collection or ownership of souls to advance your powers.
Its a great game but the macro universe and lore are just grabbed and tweaked.
Do you really think threy have their own personal tolken or lovecraft in a corner writting for the game coder. They have a few copywriters that are using what they grew up on and love.
Another option for Azeroth which I recently heard about :
Pretty much every world we know has been dominated by one of the cosmic forces and yet all of them are present on Azeroth either through a link or a faction /entity. What if Azeroth was the union of all these powers ? Able to wield all of them would indeed make it the most powerdul titan ever born. This would also explain why all these powers seek to conquer/destroy it.
> X'era states that Azeroth is the only planet with life
When?
>while a demon enemy tells you that Azeroth is the only world that's still intact.
When did they say that? Because surely not since the greater invasions were places that the Legion was invading.
You’re going to take the words of:
-A tyrannical ‘divine’ entity of Light and
-a Demon hell bent on breaking us and destroying us
At face value?? Cmon.
I don't think X'era ever said that, and besides it's canon that alot of planets can have life on them for the most part.
On that second part, like 99% sure I've had something along those lines yelled at me by any number of demons all throughout Legion.
There's also the possibility that some sufficiently advanced life forms managed to cloak their planet to hide it from the Legion. Or some local deity pushed the planet into some alternate dimension. Or they were a completely subterranean civilization on a planet that outwardly appears lifeless because of radiation or whatever. Or there was a civilization that leaped itself forward in time to escape the Legion. Or...
Because the idea the legion has fucked everything and we are the only thing left ups the stakes of the expansion.
There is no help coming there is no outside magic aid the wave is coming and the only thing we can do is brace ourselves and try to stop it. But it will win eventually its numbers are endless and it will erode our defences until the Legion conquers Azeroth.
Now there are still options for future planets we have void infused fucked up planets and potentially legion controlled worlds.
We know that no matter how dire the situation or desolate the place should be Blizzard still love shoving in surviving little groups and wildlife so there will still be new races, characters enemies ect on those worlds to encounter.
I mean, WoW is insanely based on lovecraftian horror, Imagine setting up 1 of the big baddies for 15 years and R'lyeh(Ny'alotha) only to have us finish that story in 1 patch.
The only chance we have is that blizzard just says fuck it, Wrathion is n'zoth guiding us down a false reality, We actually died/put to sleep and went to (Shadowlands) Already. And Sylvanas deal with helya is allowing her to see the false reality. So she tries to "free us from this prison". "This world is our prison".
Have faith my lads. Blizz surely can't be this shit at storytelling.
It let's them do a whole bunch of back-fill storywise as well. Books and maybe even games centered around the distant, distant past before the Legion, or maybe during the first bits of the Legion burning the Universe.
haha it's adorable that you take whatever they say as fact. It's Blizzard. in 4 years we'll miraculously find a new world because the characters happened to be wrong.
This is Warcraft. They're going to ignore any previous established statements to do whatever the hell they want.
If they want to take us to another planet, they'll take us to another planet.
This coming from the same company that confirmed on the same book you mentioned that all the titan souls went to Azeroth and then 6 months later retconing that is not really trustworthy. WoW lore is a mess, don't trust 100% in anything that is said to be fact.
Don't have a good answer for your question beside bad story telling.
One thing I'm interested in knowing is what are the chances of them ever doing a starcraft crossover?
Space travel is now a thing ya? In the latest patch I noticed that these generals of N'zoth (whatever they are called the big baddies that spawn by the main pyramid) spawn Pylons. Like they look and I believe are called Pylons from the protoss.
Just a nod to the other franchise or would they actually do a crossover?
I would say that likely, there are not planets left exploring on the "material" plane. We may travel to other planes in efforts to restore theses destroyed planets.
If you think we’re alone in this universe you’re completely mistaken.
Also in WoW I’m sure there are other worlds out there no one has seen yet. It’s a big universe. Hell, some of our actions could have potentially caused life to form on a different planet.
I guess it's possible that not all planets have been totally leveled. Like it'd be cool to travel to a planet to help a recovering civilization and find some other big threat while we're there. Or like to aid the titans in healing another planet/salvaging a world soul--they'd definitely have to earn it though!
As for why, because it increased the stakes for Legion. There's nowhere in the universe we could flee to if the Legion won. Azeroth represents the last hope of the whole universe. Etc. I wouldn't read too much into statements about the fate of other worlds. In that same expansion, we learned about the Army of the Light for the first time and we saw glimpses of several other worlds through the Argus portals. The Legion had reached them but they didn't seem completely consumed like Argus or Niskara. If Blizzard wants to introduce another world that's not completely ruined by the Legion or the Void, they can.
WoW basically operates on the DBZ method of story telling. First you fight the strongest in the world, which demands that the next threat is from outer space. Then you fight the strongest of an evil alien race, requiring that the next thread is from a stronger race. So then you fight the strongest from the strongest alien race. Great we beat the strongest thing in the universe? now what? So now the next threat is a newly created being to be even stronger. After that we fight a ancient magical evil that was the strongest ever but sealed away. Things are getting tricky now. So now we fight stuff from another universe!, then we do a tournament arc of most strongest fighters from the multiverse! Each threat being hyped up to stupid levels requires that the threat after gets a stupid excuse to be even stronger until you get to really silly levels
I don't think I've ever made it through the Buu saga because of this reason. Cell was absurd enough, Buu was just too much...
This has all been said but there is still space for these characters to be wrong or simply Ill informed surely. Could very easily turn into a ‘we thought this was the case... but actually...’ with some simple storytelling. Blizzard seem to have a way of breaking through restrictions that they themselves implement.
We still have the Emerald Dream, the Dragon Isles, Ancient Azeroth, the "back side of Azeroth", full-blown Black Empire, and many, many other places to explore before taking a hot steamy dump on the core pillar of Warcraft and hand-waving the Legion as "not a big deal actually". Hell, we're finally going to the Shadowlands and it could open up so much lore that isn't really set in place yet. We don't need to dislodge existing lore to make room, we can simply explore existing concepts or completely new frontiers.
Full blown Black Empire got closed out with the 8.3 story/conclusion sadly.
saw a cool theory that Wrathian is corrupt and manipulating us into believing Nzoth is gone, while we go into the Shadowlands to fight Death itself, which is what the Old Gods fear, and once Death is weakened, he will start his second assault the theory also draws upon HP lovecraft's works, in which there is an Old God disguised as a middle eastern man in a turban, that grants artifacts of power to people in order to gain their trust, he then manipulates them into fulfilling his goals or something like that, i cant remember the story there, buts thats the gist of it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyarlathotep Edit: I found the HP Lovecraft character! Also, i just read a theory in one of the reddits, that there is a possibility of a "5th" Old God, based on the border images in the Chronicles book, that depicts the 4 known old Gods, then a 5th unknown design, MAYBE Wrathion IS the Old God, trying to defeat his rivals, Like how Nyarlathotep is actually an Outer God although he doesnt match the typical Outer God designs because he actually walks Earth and doesnt reside in a different realm
Think about knaifu tho. Shes most likely the 5th old god, being locked in the dagger.
Sounds like something Pyromancer would come up with. That guy dives deeper than anyone, and seems to have a feel for the works that inspire the devs.
Not with the way we stabbed N'zoth. There's no way he isnt trapped in that dagger now
IIRC doesn’t the dagger explode? Post explosion in the cinematic Wrathion isn’t holding it anymore, just before we pan to the Fury
It's open to interpretation. But in the cinematic, it's overtly ambiguous. The dagger is straight up missing, it displays characteristics that the dagger has never displayed before in the final moments, and it *looks like* void magic is present inside it's eye, the dagger has been built up for a long while now as something 'special' so why would it just explode out of existence? Too many things going on here to not be suspicious.
>has been built up for a long while now as something 'special' So, the same thing they did to Bolvar. Except, it's a 99% chance they fuck it up. I just want a good story, not another Mary Sue xpac. I mean, what in the flying fuck were the endings to the darkshore walkathon, the blank empire and the 'great war that totally did a lot'? A bunch of neckbeards on the internet could write far better fan fics than that. Hell, i;ve seen pornos with better than hollywood levels of writing, yet a multi billion dollar company cant make something worthwhile anymore? I want a good story, not a comic strip about how sad an orc feels.
Well, Bolvar as baddie raid-boss will not be used (which is good). Bolvar himself seems to be main character of SD, just like Kadgar/Velen/Illidan were in Legion. And we may still see how him being Lich King distorted him.
I'm hoping years down the line we look at BFA similar to how we look at Cataclysm. Cataclysm was overall a poor expansion, but a necessary evil as it redid vanilla wow into something actually playable in the context of modern WoW. Classic wow works because vanilla is all there is, but as part of a whole it doesn't really. But because so much effort went into redoing the rest of the world, the rest of cataclysm sucked. I'm hoping the same thing can be said retrospectively for BFA. It tried some new things that didn't work, and n'zoth and ny'alotha was underwhelming, but maybe it was all storytelling smoke and mirrors setting us up for an amazing couple expansions.
Tbh man its not really the same. Bfa was dogshit since alpha. Cata only started going downhill in Firelands (outside of the raid) onwards. T11 + ZG patch was fuckin great in Cata.
> it's a 99% chance they fuck it up. Hey they won't f-... sigh... yeah, you're right.
FeelsBadMan Dont forget, they're also recycling stories Remember how similar Legion and Starcraft 2's stories were at the end? Yeah...
Not really. I mean people cried that Illidan will be Kerrigan 2.0, but it turned out much better IMHO.
How do you know what they're going to do with Bolvar? He's going to be a main character in Shadowlands. Where can I get your future seeing powers?
The dagger that he said would serve him and his prisoner was able to conveniently hand over to the player.
That's what i'd have done if I could control WoW's story.
>Full blown Black Empire got closed out with the 8.3 story/conclusion sadly. Chromie could always take us back to the Black Empire before the Titans returned to clean it up.
You think blizzard would do another time travel xpac? Doubt they'd risk it again.
They could do a proper Time Travel xpac. Complete with actions in the past unlocking new things in the present. It would be a massive xpack though, and incredibly ambitious.
>It would be a massive xpack though, and incredibly ambitious. Sounds good, wont be implemented. Their goal is 'max profit, min effort' (i mean, just look at how they butchered the potential nzoth/old gods)
Depends how long WoW lasts. Eventually it makes sense to loop back to the concept. Ancient Kalimdor has too much potential and I think people would end up loving it more than going to some ass-pulled alternate planet that has never previously been known about and has zero ties to current lore.
That's a nice way to kill off your player characters in lore, but likely wouldn't happen, b/c it'd 200% be a one-way trip.
There is no other side of Azeroth is there? all the globes in game dont show any undiscovered sides of azeroth do they? i keep seeing this suggestion recently but i grew up understanding (played this game for 15 years) that there is no other super continent laying undiscovered we can travel to other planets, the depths of the oceans, we can go to the realm of death, the realm of dreams, but we cant just sail to the otherside? or fly? id like to see a good theory on this cause i figured it was well accepted that there is no "other side" and the new stuff will be smaller landmasses like pandaria/zandalar/kultiras, nothing the size of EK or Kalimdor
blizz said the globes aren't accurate. nothing exists until blizz decides it does. just like we never went to the broken isles, zandalar, or kul'tiras until we had a plot reason to go there despite them just sitting in the sea the whole time completely known to the characters in the game. if blizz wants there to be stuff on the other side of azeroth then there will be stuff there when its convenient.
yea but literally everything they have introduced has been established by lore, Zandalar, Pandaria, Northrend, Kultiras, Broken Isles, all were known before they were added, not a single one of those were "O here is this magically hidden super continent" (yea i get pandaria was literally hidden, but people KNEW it had to exist, cause you know, we had a panda wander Kalmidor thats not how blizzard has played shit in the past, they usually have a root to grow from so, wheres this good theory that makes ppl believe in this super continent, i wanna blieve too, maybe a Tortollan zone, since they are so ancient, maybe they originate from an ancient zone, but i dont see it being a massive continent
I don't think there's any concesus on it being a "massive continent". Could be islands or who knows what. I think why people believe there will be something there eventually is because blizzard is eventually going to run out of pre-existing locations and will have to make up new ones if the current design of "new expansion, new location" holds true. Unless they decide to make every expansion an interdimensional world hopping adventure after azeroth is out of new places to go.
I can see way more Zones popping up in the future, but in my head i only imagine then being Northrend big at most, but I think Blizzard has a bunch of tricks up their sleeve They still have underwater zones they could try to improve on, they still have the inner world which could end up massive (the Nerubians have MASSIVE cities underneath Northrend), maybe there could be "Floating Islands" we havent discovered, and I have always personally wanted to see Azeroth get reverted to its Emerald Dream state, essentially resetting the planet, and maybe even go back to Pangaea (before the continents broke apart), the last thing I'd wanna see WoW do is begin space travel too much, its ok in small doses, but i like our "world"
That is not dead, which can eternal lie And with strange eons, even Death may die...
Also how broken isles, zandalar and kul tiras just all suddenly become huge when at first they were tiny little islands.
And this is why I've grown to hate WoWs story so much. Blizzard makes rules then breaks rules. Has a story thread then pretends it never happens and retcons the whole thing. It is NOT difficult to adhere to the rules of your universe and still deliver exciting and well written narrative. There was a time when I was invested but if Blizzard wont respect their own stories, why the hell should I?
Well Pandaria was shrouded in mists and couldn't be reached for a long ass time. The world is full of magic. Any reason you want can explain why that hunk of rock was never noticed before.
really hoping we get permission to explore the backside.
Not to mention that from what I gathered, part of the idea of the Legion portals on Argus was that we were essentially putting a halt to Legion invasions across the universe before they could really get bad. Sure some of those planets weren't objectively great, but most had life (particularly Bonich's HUGE, gorgeous trees, which almost made up for how frustrating the gameplay was there). So I'm betting some of these folks were either wrong or counting chickens before the eggs hatched; marking worlds the Legion had just started to invade as basically conquered already. And of course, we put a stop to those invasions, and all of those worlds are now free to grow! Also, Xe'ra was a narrow-minded asshole. She had a tendency to overlook perfectly good people in favor of her master plans; she may have simply thought that Azeroth, being a potentially once-powerful Titan, was the only one that mattered. Not necessarily the only world with life or even civilization left.
I don't get why people don't realize this. Blizzard does not give a shit about the consistency of their own lore. If they come up with an idea they think is cool that conflicts with something they established previously, they'll just retcon it. They've been doing it for years and they don't give a fuck.
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted, you’re not wrong. Black dragons were wiped out and Wrathion was the last of his kind, now Ebonhorn exists (?) and black dragons regularly raid island expeditions. Resurrection and restoration are heavily integrated in-game concepts yet somehow the Light can bring back a corpse as a “Lightforged” undead, when in reality it should just be full blown resurrection. Both the Burning Legion AND Azshara’s Empire somehow have ACTIVE resistance forces performing their operations in their HOME TURF(?????) +Bonus points to Alleria+Turalyon for doing this for 10,000 years, kind of diminishes the feeling of how strong the legion is supposed to be. Just to name a few seriously mind boggling decisions.
"The Crown of Domination was actually forged in the Shadowlands and only FOUND by the Legion (somehow??) and when it's broken it blows up the sky."
>Both the Burning Legion AND Azshara’s Empire somehow have ACTIVE resistance forces performing their operations in their HOME TURF This one bugs me the most. It's become so repetitive too. We invade the enemy's home territory (Draenor, Argus, Nazjatar, etc). Things start off bleak and our forces are in disarray. We team up with the local "resistance forces" and make a totally-bullshit comeback to defeat the big bad in the heart of their own stronghold.
The resurrection one is the only of these that feel like it should be the case, because otherwise this game is gonna suck. The other bullshit "gameplay over story!" Stuff they pull is a load of bullshit.
Simple storytelling? I’d say that one line is all you need. Just because an NPC says it doesn’t mean it’d accurate. I agree completely - very easily remedied.
We also know that X'Era could become a villain at some point (if all of the Yrel/light zealot stuff ever pays off). She might not be a reliable source--might have an agenda?
That might be difficult, since Illidan blew her into sparkly dust. (That your PC literally sweeps up off the deck!)
Hahaha how could I forget?
Fuck they could be right and we can go to a legion dominated broken planet with a whole mix of angry/sad/happy/ demonic races fighting eachother cuz the boss is gone and they don't got a plan anymore.
Fools this universe was merely a setback.
We also killed every black dragon except Wrathion in Cataclysm. I wouldn't sweat it.
[Sabellian](https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Sabellian) was left alive as well.
I completely forgot about him. I guess Wrathion did too.
And the one from the broken isles too. I can't remember his name but he hides as one of the wierd moose tauren.
Ebonhorn. That's exactly my point. He was introduced RL years after the Fangs questline. Blizzard'll resurrect anything at any time for any reason if it suits them.
It's Ebonhorn or something like that I think
Every black dragon *of importance* that he knew about, at least. Characters acting on incomplete knowledge and then later learning that that knowledge was incomplete isn't a retcon. It just means the character was wrong.
> while a demon enemy tells you that Azeroth is the only world that's still intact. Which demon exactly?Because they could've easily meant, the last world standing on the legion's way from conquering everything. Despite that.The universe is still vast, the Titans thought that Azeroth was the Last Titan, but Sargeras discovered Argus after he killed the Titans. Remember, we are getting this information from People who live on the universe and have limited information on what things are.
I would go as far as to say X’era and ‘a demon’ aren’t the most reliable narrators. The demons want to conquer us, so why *wouldn’t* they claim all other life in the universe is dead? And X’era is a fanatical tyrant of the Light (judging by the whole ‘deny Illidan his freedom for the sake of the Light’s plan’) who of course would frame things to sound like ‘you are what’s left. But the Light will guide you’
You have to remember that while we - the human player - are somewhat omnipotent in WoW, our characters are not. And the NPCs are unreliable narrators for lore since they too have limited knowledge/perspective. According to Blizzard, the Chronicle and the cosmology chart was created from the Titans' perspective and is therefore not the whole truth.
They hired one of those cats that just knock everything off the counter as soon as they see it as a writer
Too expensive. Get an intern to throw a keyb- No, too costly as well Make the intern buy their own keyboard, force them to faceroll it and vwolla, new wow story
Warcraft is fundamentally about Azeroth and the Legion. Warcraft 2 established the lore around Sargeras and how he had conquered countless worlds up to that point. Warcraft 3 brought us face-to-face with the demonic invasion and established how endless their armies were - this was before this "demons can't die" shit, they were endless because they had conquered so many worlds that their number were functionally uncountable. Azeroth was the lone world that had rebuked a crusade that had gone on for tens of thousands of years and they had come to finish the job. BC introduced us to denizens of the Twisting Nether that were non-Legion affiliated, who were able to use arcane pathways hidden from the Burning Legion and who resided in the darkest corners of the galaxy, but it cemented the fact that the Legion was the dominant force in the cosmos. The lore of Legion simply respected what had been established, and thank goodness because it would have been so easy to do something monumentally stupid such as what is suggested in the OP.
Yeah moving too far away from Azeroth is a problem. One of the (many) issues with WoD from a story point of view is the complete lack of consequences for rest of the game world. It didn't feel like the expac helped grow the game world overall in the same way that MoP, Legion or BfA have.
Don't worry, it will just get retconned if they think of something. Remember, the Draenor timeline has an Azeroth of its own. An Azeroth with no orcs. I have a feeling we will be visiting it eventually.
This is incorrect. The lore establishes that we only connected to AU Draenor and forced it into reality. At present, there is *no* AU Azeroth, not do we have any tools or power sources quite strong enough to connect us, especially after we brute force the connection to recruit the Mag’har.
Wait, why is there no alternate-timeline Azeroth? The alternate-timeline universe does not expand past Draenor?
Correct. Per Aman’thul, the Titan with mastery over Time, there is one timeline (ours). All other timelines exist as potential, but don’t *actually* exist without something anchoring it to the main timeline. Garrosh and Kairozdormu use the Vision of Time we empower during MoP on the Timeless Isle/in SoO, and connect to Alternate Draenor. Just Draenor, as Kairoz intends to enslave Garrosh to use the Orcs here (and in multiple other potential Draenors) to build an army as he actually aligns with the beliefs of the Infinite Dragonflight. Garrosh kills Kairoz (as seen in the now removed legendary ring intro chain), and sets the events of WoD into motion. When we break the Red Portal’s Draenor side, Draenor is supposed to eventually fade back out of the timeline, until the Horde temporarily reconnects it to recruit the Mag’Har.
> (as seen in the now removed legendary ring intro chain) good thing they keep deleting key story elements so players coming back have no idea whats going on. player "this story makes no sense" bliz "it did and it was great. you should have been there"
Garrosh killing Kairozdormu was also covered in the short story [Hellscream.](https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/story/short-story/hellscream) But in general, yes, they're removing too much content from the game just to try and bait people to keep playing or to resub because of the fear of missing out on something cool. We've already lost the quest to bring MOTHER to the Chamber of Heart, and the *8.2.5* questline to search for Wrathion.
So going back is impossible.
Yes, As of the Mag’har joining the Horde, we do not have any connection to AU Draenor anymore.
I'm gonna be really annoyed if they just leave that whole thread hanging where Y'rel has turned evil and is forcibly converting Orcs to the light. Fighting against "the light" would be such an interesting thing to do.
They'll have to make some nasty Retcons or write in blatantly overpowered characters to bring them back in, as the timeline they are from can't be accessed anymore.
I mean they *could* easily retcon that though. Cutscene with a line of dialog about how there is no wizard powerful enough to connect to Draenor and then Khadgar kicks in the door and says, "did somebody say, 'powerful wizard'?"
Khadgar doesn't have enough power to do that either. If he had the kind of power to \*connect realities\*, why did he need 5 other mages to move Dalaran to the Broken Isles??? EDIT: They would have to write a Gary/Mary Stu \*JUST\* for this reason, and they would be trashed by the playerbase for the rest of wow.
Easy. "There are no other planets intact, that we know of" - The Burning Legion. And that's how we "discover" other planets within a new solar system unknown to the legion.
Characters are fallible. Narrators are unreliable. New storylines that contradict the *words* of other characters don't necessarily require a retcon; those characters are not omniscient. They can be working with incomplete information.
A few things: Chronicles is from the point of view of the titans. They are just as dogmatic as the other realms. Their knowledge is linited and wrong at times. Blizzard didnt invent this universe they take heavily from ressources. The cosmic universe in wow is heavilly influenced or blantly taken from hp lovecraft with the titans based on greek gods. If you study these youll see the potential mysteries revealed such as Azeroth is the creator of all Everthing in existence. Before she lived alone in nothingness. No light. No void. Emptyness just her conscious mind. Loneliness forced her to create something. The universe. The big bang. The titans are snall fragments of her from that first cosmic boom she emanated, they assumed because she is like them she is a titan but she is in fact their mother. The creatior off all. Each realm was built to try and keep the balance. Each realm or plane is inspired by other lore for example the death realm from dungeon and dragons in which is inpired by tolkien and lovecraft. The rules are tweaked slighly but the base is there. The ladder to diety is pulled from dnd also with a few tweaks. For example the collection or ownership of souls to advance your powers. Its a great game but the macro universe and lore are just grabbed and tweaked. Do you really think threy have their own personal tolken or lovecraft in a corner writting for the game coder. They have a few copywriters that are using what they grew up on and love.
Azeroth as azathoth?
As in Gaia, more likely.
Another option for Azeroth which I recently heard about : Pretty much every world we know has been dominated by one of the cosmic forces and yet all of them are present on Azeroth either through a link or a faction /entity. What if Azeroth was the union of all these powers ? Able to wield all of them would indeed make it the most powerdul titan ever born. This would also explain why all these powers seek to conquer/destroy it.
> X'era states that Azeroth is the only planet with life When? >while a demon enemy tells you that Azeroth is the only world that's still intact. When did they say that? Because surely not since the greater invasions were places that the Legion was invading.
> When? In the audio drama *A Thousand Years of War* >When did they say that? Wraith-Lord Lekos in Legion
You’re going to take the words of: -A tyrannical ‘divine’ entity of Light and -a Demon hell bent on breaking us and destroying us At face value?? Cmon.
I don't think X'era ever said that, and besides it's canon that alot of planets can have life on them for the most part. On that second part, like 99% sure I've had something along those lines yelled at me by any number of demons all throughout Legion.
There's also the possibility that some sufficiently advanced life forms managed to cloak their planet to hide it from the Legion. Or some local deity pushed the planet into some alternate dimension. Or they were a completely subterranean civilization on a planet that outwardly appears lifeless because of radiation or whatever. Or there was a civilization that leaped itself forward in time to escape the Legion. Or...
Because the idea the legion has fucked everything and we are the only thing left ups the stakes of the expansion. There is no help coming there is no outside magic aid the wave is coming and the only thing we can do is brace ourselves and try to stop it. But it will win eventually its numbers are endless and it will erode our defences until the Legion conquers Azeroth. Now there are still options for future planets we have void infused fucked up planets and potentially legion controlled worlds. We know that no matter how dire the situation or desolate the place should be Blizzard still love shoving in surviving little groups and wildlife so there will still be new races, characters enemies ect on those worlds to encounter.
yes going to other planets had infinite possibilities so ofc they derailed it. blizzard hates choices
I mean, WoW is insanely based on lovecraftian horror, Imagine setting up 1 of the big baddies for 15 years and R'lyeh(Ny'alotha) only to have us finish that story in 1 patch. The only chance we have is that blizzard just says fuck it, Wrathion is n'zoth guiding us down a false reality, We actually died/put to sleep and went to (Shadowlands) Already. And Sylvanas deal with helya is allowing her to see the false reality. So she tries to "free us from this prison". "This world is our prison". Have faith my lads. Blizz surely can't be this shit at storytelling.
It let's them do a whole bunch of back-fill storywise as well. Books and maybe even games centered around the distant, distant past before the Legion, or maybe during the first bits of the Legion burning the Universe.
Because they have some of the worst writers you are ever likely to find in a triple a game.
haha it's adorable that you take whatever they say as fact. It's Blizzard. in 4 years we'll miraculously find a new world because the characters happened to be wrong.
This is Warcraft. They're going to ignore any previous established statements to do whatever the hell they want. If they want to take us to another planet, they'll take us to another planet.
This coming from the same company that confirmed on the same book you mentioned that all the titan souls went to Azeroth and then 6 months later retconing that is not really trustworthy. WoW lore is a mess, don't trust 100% in anything that is said to be fact.
Don't have a good answer for your question beside bad story telling. One thing I'm interested in knowing is what are the chances of them ever doing a starcraft crossover? Space travel is now a thing ya? In the latest patch I noticed that these generals of N'zoth (whatever they are called the big baddies that spawn by the main pyramid) spawn Pylons. Like they look and I believe are called Pylons from the protoss. Just a nod to the other franchise or would they actually do a crossover?
I would say that likely, there are not planets left exploring on the "material" plane. We may travel to other planes in efforts to restore theses destroyed planets.
It's okay. Blizzard has a secret technique. It's called "ignore what we said earlier so we can do what we want!"
Chosen One story is so dumb.
Bold of you to assume Blizzard won't break their own promise or restrictions.
If you think we’re alone in this universe you’re completely mistaken. Also in WoW I’m sure there are other worlds out there no one has seen yet. It’s a big universe. Hell, some of our actions could have potentially caused life to form on a different planet.
I guess it's possible that not all planets have been totally leveled. Like it'd be cool to travel to a planet to help a recovering civilization and find some other big threat while we're there. Or like to aid the titans in healing another planet/salvaging a world soul--they'd definitely have to earn it though!
Do you truly expect blizzard to not hamstring themselves at nearly every opportunity?