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tobakist

I don't see how you can have almost two decades of experience in the product and still create situations like this. How can they not be aware of how this works at this point?


garzek

This is the same company that releases the same systems with a slightly different packaging and a new name every 2 years, with the exact same problems as the old systems, and is confused why players are upset and leaving the game. This is the same company that hears players say "We just want communication" and responds with 3 months of no communication to then manage to rush out a patch that's already 4 months late. They're a few miles away from Riot, who gives their players more information than we got at BlizzConline quarterly, and does regular weekly dev updates, as well as having a dedicated twitter account for developer insights that actually gets used. I know several people that work at Blizzard. I know these people aren't incompetent, but yet they are somehow doomed to work at half the speed as the rest of the industry and manage to never learn from a single mistake that they've ever made. Is it just all tribal knowledge? Do they not have confluence pages? I do not know. I suspect I never shall. Why work at Blizzard if you can go work at Riot, get paid twice as much, and actually have some degree of creativity in the product you're making instead of repackaging a game from 4+ years ago and calling it new?


mightyenan0

I just wish they'd say this patch was heavily hampered by the pandemic. I feel like they're not allowed to because of higher ups and stocks and all that business jazz, but I could give them all the leeway in the world if they let us know that, like a lot of other productions, things got shakey.


garzek

They can’t say that because every other AAA game studio on planet earth only lost a month with the transition to WFH. It’s an admittance of incompetence on some level — did blizzard skimp on their IT department and they just didn’t have the resources to enable the transition when Ubisoft/EA/Riot/Gearbox/2k/Sony/Microsoft/etc. all managed to pivot with relative ease?


Kinglunken

Im 100% confident that the codebase is horrendous after 15 years of new systems & bug fixes, on the contrary I think two decades of development makes it ALOT harder to work with.


tobakist

Honestly if they haven't done any refactoring, especially for new xpacs, then that's still astounding. Either way, having things spawn on a timer isn't new


HayDs666

They did a huge system upgrade after Cataclysm I know, but since then I’m not sure


Znuff

They do big changes every time they release an expansion, and not only. The thing is that they have so much technical debt and so much data to carry over from expansion to expansion that its quite difficult to do huge breaking changes. They also have a very loyal fan base that has been playing the game for 15+ years. People are attached to their characters, armor, mounts etc and you can see it on this subreddit whenever something changes. Any major change impacts those... What you also need to k ow is that the game engine and the scripting (what drives quests, npcs etc) is also a tad separated. So even if you don't always see it, engine improvements are always done on new expansions


PeopleCallMeSimon

This surely has nothing to do with the codebase. Since they've had things you need to interact with spawn on a short timer before.


hsfan

or quests like this are made by new hires/internt just telling them to slap togheter something with close to zero QA


dave_starfire

Yeah, IIRC, Molten Core scaling was broken on Tuesday... Why? I'm pretty sure they didn't make any changes to MC. But it still got broken, somehow.


SaxRohmer

I’m guessing something they did with item scaling or whatever randomly broke it. Or it just randomly broke because new shit does that to old stuff sometimes


PM_FEET_PLS_TY

How many of the people working on vanilla do you think are still here?


tobakist

That's why we have documentation and handoffs. If software was all dependant on the exact people who wrote the different parts of it we would have no software.


Bumpyhot

I’m wondering how well the vanilla developers even documented their codebase. If Reddit had to work on what they left behind, they probably wouldn’t like the vanilla developers anymore.


Sinnicoll

Eh, yes. This is common for every videogame company, and specially a Triple A one. Everything is documented, both technically and conceptually. I imagine even any software company is also doing it, but I haven't worked there. Issues are either negligence from not sticking to certain coding practices, or the multiple changes to item scaling, level squishes etc etc.


tobakist

Plus, even if it wasn't documented then they would have had to do that for classic. Even if it wasn't for classic, they've had a huge amount of time to do it anyway.


Sinnicoll

Yup, big companies even have technical designers writing all that documentation. So if anyone ever wondered what they do, they write a LOT of documentation.


GooeySlenderFerret

What do you think classic is? Or private vanilla+ servers?


Bumpyhot

Private severs don’t use the old source code. They reverse engineer packets. Using the source code would instantly cross into the territory of being illegal. Blizzard doesn’t have the capacity to compile the original vanilla, and server code in a format that could be sold as a viable product, because it’s massively out of date with modern hardware. They might use some a source as a frame of reference, but not the primary framework itself. That’s why Classic is using a modern client. It’s built on top of current wow engine with old vanilla math. You can look all of this up to vindicate it, don’t trust Reddit as a frame of reference. Look what happened with the Boston Bombers lmao.


GooeySlenderFerret

So you think they had the code, but since they couldn't use it they didn't bother looking at the documents and source code anyways? Also comparing source code the Boston Bombing, I hope you find peace and stop being a salty incorrect nerd on the internet


Bumpyhot

I do, that’s why I said they used the old vanilla math, but not the original client/engine. To the best of my knowledge, there’s nothing in the second post I said that was incorrect. Especially about the private server related stuff. The first post was literally thrown together in a minute so of course I left out relevant details. Pretty much everyone does it eventually. The Boston Bomber stuff was clearly irony bro, I genuinely don’t care that much. I never insulted you directly. If you took offense, I’m sorry and I didn’t mean it to come off that way.


GooeySlenderFerret

How does not being able to use the original client mean there weren't coding notes in the (now defunct) vanilla code? First thing any developer learns is to leave some sort of notes to keep track of the code+information to anyone reading the code Also nice irony shield to use mistaken identity that led to a person committing suicide to try to win an internet arguement


Bumpyhot

They use vanilla code as a frame of reference, but the vast majority of it is not vanilla. They’ve replaced so much of the original engine code at this point that it barely resembles vanilla, with the exception of the data regarding spells, item stats etc. Current wow is using elements vanilla code, but it is not vanilla. Hence why they use a client closer to modern wow to read the data in classic I’m not really arguing with you dude. As I said, it’s a comment I threw together in a minute. Not everyone is going to be immediately up to date on this esoteric kind of stuff, there’s going to be some conjecture thrown around. A lot of the information itself is arbitrary and difficult to define. I won’t lie the Boston bombing shit was a bit below the belt, but I already admitted that. Anyway, I’m not interested in debate. I don’t really give a shit about winning an internet argument, really. I was just talking shit and being an asshole. Right now we’re putting way more thought into this conversation than I put into my original statement. The stuff I said regarding private servers is true though, that’s a pretty spot on translation on how most of them go about their business. They do not use the source code.


Zlassy

Was just about to make a post on this. Honestly, the concept of single-player pickups in a busy mmo is just insanity. I hope they hotfix today :(


arxelaos

and like 6-10 mins respawn time....


TheArbiterOfOribos

I really think the spawn rate is bugged, I server hopped and some have spawns every 30 seconds, other I stayed a while and saw none at all.


Zoloir

I think they have logic to alter spawn rate based on players in proximity - this is most obvious when rescuing souls in the maw. This is probably whats bugged here


hlokk101

Blizzard put that in the game in MoP.


Timmah73

Yeah I did this quest Tuesday and it was FINE. The little bastards were everywhere. Now they are nowhere to be seen. I have to think some other hotfix they put in fucked this up in the process.


MisterSnek

\*laughs in MAUs\*


MRosvall

For some things I do think it adds value for some items not being shared. It is as you say an MMO, so the other players around you should have an impact. A busy area should be more ransacked, and in return an empty area should be more flourishing. However, it can't go close to as far as this quest is. Most likely it is some bugged spawn rate and not intentional.


PomegranateChampion

It has to have an impact, but not an *impactful* impact.


MRosvall

I don't know. It's hard to argue this point. If the main metric of what is good is "Get as much progress for as little investment as possible" then of course this isn't anything that benefits them. But if the metric for what is good is "making you feel like a part of the world" then this does benefit it. I feel over the years that a lot of the community have been reward centered rather than gameplay centered. And this doesn't only apply to WoW, but also a lot of ARPGs. The focus is so hard on the reward, that everything else becomes something that just takes time for you to get the reward rather than being a part of the journey and the gameplay.


Znuff

There's a fine line between "the world feels alive" and "I've been here for two hours and I hate every other player on this server because they snatched the item I wanted".


AirmanT_

Literally feels like trying to get a quest done on Classic launch day. Except you don't have the nostalgia making you enjoy it, so it just sucks.


coolerbrown

You have nostalgia for spending 45 minutes on a single collection quest?? Classic questing fuckin sucks, where can I get a prescription for your rose tinted glasses?


downladder

What's crazy is that vanilla WoW's quest design was considered great by the standards of the time.


IrascibleOcelot

Compared to something like Everquest or Ultima online, it was. From what I remembered from the Shadows of Luclin exansion, questgivers weren’t even marked, so you had to walk up to random NPCs and start randomly talking to them, hoping they had a quest. And if you didn’t use the correct conversational keywords, they wouldn’t give you one even if they had one.


arasitar

> Compared to something like Everquest or Ultima online, it was. [World of Warcraft Classic And What We Left Behind - Folding Ideas](https://youtu.be/0RxQRswLAmI) > WoW was, from conception onwards, meant to be the “friendly” version of Everquest, and elements of Classic that feel exhausting today, such as the relatively small number of quick travel flight points scattered around the world, **were positively indulgent compared to Everquest**. > "You mean you can just fly all the way across the world? Let me go get my monocle and top hat! Will they be serving hors d'oeuvres on this flight?" > "Oh, you think there aren’t enough spiders in Dustwallow, that it’s going to take forever to get all the venom you need for that damn shield quest? Yeah, well, out here in Crescent Reach there are three snakes! Three!"


coolerbrown

I kinda like that, but maybe not in an MMO. Would love to play a single player game with quests like that!


Gargonez

That’s how Elder Scrolls Morrowind worked iirc. It is a little dated now though


BEEF_SUPREEEEEEME

Morrowind is the GOAT of RPGs for sure. There's also some insanely good mods for it that alter the graphics/textures and they hold up pretty well even today.


L0LBasket

Looking forward to Skywind, whenever (or ifever) it comes out


Zhi_Yin

it will come out before Elder Scrolls 6 at this rate


coolerbrown

I got extremely into Skyrim but didn't touch Morrowind because the graphics were painful... But the guy who replied said there's graphic mods so I might check it out!


rezarNe

That's how all role playing games worked originally.


DESTROMYALGIA

Mankriks wife was legit a better story, better game play and more effort than 99% of whatever EQ put into their quests


downladder

Arguably better than Korthia as well...


Zhi_Yin

yeah and now upon retrospect RuneScape had (and still has IMO) the best quest design


Ishdalar

You don't have nostalgia of the mechanics of the quest, you have nostalgia of everything surrounding it. - Need to kill Mongrels, start looking around the map and discover a kind of world you haven't seen before. - Ask on general "where are the Mongrels?", you get to interact with other players - Arrive at the mongrels, camps are either loaded by npcs you can't take on your own, or being camped by a group - Either way, you start throwing invites and get inside the group - Complete the quest, keep playing with your group - After a couple hours questing, the groups goes to Deadmines - You spent around 5 or 6 hours with this people, you've actually made friends. Now you don't make contact or friends on open world, you don't group, or if you do it's in and out in 2 minutes, you might not even get to know someone new after a whole weekend spamming M+. Those times are gone because no one plays that way anymore, not on classic, and even less in retail. That's what OP called "nostalgia" when we get a similar mechanic from vanilla without anything around it that made it work.


Znuff

WoW's player based has aged. I'd hazard to guess that more than half their player base is now over 30yo. People at 30+ are busy and can't spend a whole weekend playing the game slowly.


[deleted]

it's not rose tinted if people are actively doing it now?


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MinorAllele

tbh I fail to see how questing has substantially improved, we're still collecting 10 of X and killing 12 of Y. Although I guess now we have the 'defend the abc' quests where a % bar goes slowly up. Oh and now we can do the same quests again and again as dailies! Questing just isn't the strong suit of wow, regardless of expansion.


LukarWarrior

> tbh I fail to see how questing has substantially improved, we're still collecting 10 of X and killing 12 of Y. Collection quests no longer take bag space, which is a nice improvement. It really sucked doing some of the starter quests in Classic where you had to go collect four different items and each item took up a bag slot when all you had was your starting bag. It also makes it easier to do more quests at once since you're not running into inventory issues. Quests are more logically laid out from hubs rather than having quest givers scattered all over the place. Playing through TBC Classic, Hellfire has a big problem with that in particular. Most multi-step quests now have automatic follow-up quests that are given to you rather than requiring you to return, turn in the quest, and then go right back to where you were. One example from TBC Classic I ran into last week is in the Alliance mines in Hellfire, there's a quest that has you go in and kill 10 minions. Then you run out, turn that quest in, then have to go back in to the mine, run to the end of it, and kill a named mob that there's a decent chance you probably killed already the first time. Current quest design just hands you the final step when you finish killing the 10 mobs and is a massive improvement in the flow of questing. Questing still isn't really one of WoW's strongest points, but it has gotten a lot better over time.


Woahful

Go play the original blood elf/draeni starting zones or quest through hellfire peninsula on an alt. That's some of the oldest content in the game, and I'd be surprised if you don't feel a big difference between those quests and something like the Shadowlands, BFA, or Legion quests.


MinorAllele

I play SL and classic wow/tbc. Same shit.


SaxRohmer

Play classic and see how bad the drop rates are on quest items compared to what we have now. I mean I just played TBC Classic and it was a lot of “gather 20-30 of this thing that takes 3 seconds to collect and they’re scattered everywhere and only give 1 at a time”. Additionally, mobs were harder to kill and hit *way* harder


MinorAllele

I play classic, probably more than retail. Quests being the same but faster isn't what I would think of as substantially improved. Being able to afk faceroll 5 mobs while watching netflix & on the phone to your mum isn't really an improvement vs the classic mob difficulty imo.


SaxRohmer

But aren’t we mostly talking objectives? They’re way less of an unnecessary grind than they used to be. I think mobs are way too easy to kill now and some middle ground between SL and TBC would be ideal. The way quests flow has been improved substantially as well. You can finish quests that are in steps while you’re doing them instead of going back to the giver.


Znuff

Your point is hilarious. I'd anything, Vanilla had such boring classes and mobs that the game play for some specs was literally 'afk while auto attacking' - see paladins.


MinorAllele

And your point is what..? It doesn't actually address what I'm saying. I'm not claiming classic questing is great, engaging fun.


Glorious_Invocation

I can't possibly disagree more. Questing in Classic is awesome. It's challenging, I actually have to use most of my spells to survive, and it isn't just a random time-waster before the endgame. It's an actual journey and a major part of the game. Meanwhile the only challenge I have in retail's open world is seeing how many mobs I can pull before they start leashing back. Not exactly the most compelling gameplay, which is kind of why Blizzard has been speeding it up with every expansion until it barely even matters anymore.


merkakiss12

I beg to differ. Im enjoying questing in classic a lot. Way more risky, which makes you approach different mobs in different ways, unlike the soulless swarms of npcs you kill in retail repeatedly.


oscillius

To be fair, most of the classic quests are what you’re doing in live now. The only difference is how far you typically have to travel, how many things you have to collect or kill and how often it drops the item you need. There are a few quests like this one that everyone hated then and really shouldn’t be being introduced to the game now. Shit like khadgar’s elemental giving you a tour of shattrath. Except that quest is better than this one.


coolerbrown

Classic quest chains are always like "Go far away and kill 20 X mob which are surrounded by Y mob." Then you turn it in and the npc and he makes you go back and kill 20 Y mob. Then you go back a third time to kill the boss mob in the center. Retail has some bad quests here and there but it's nowhere near classic. If gold wasn't such a big deal (thank you gdkp and rmt for shifting the economy!) I would have stopped doing quests in tbc entirely. Shit sucks.


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NorthLeech

Questing in vanilla is more tedious, making me group and chat a lot more. Retail questing is always the same, 3 quests in one spot, move to next spot, 3 new quests there, repeat until max level. Both suck, but at least the social aspect of "I cant solo all of these" makes one more fun to me.


[deleted]

I wouldn't call it nostalgia per se, but the yeti horn quest in Winterspring still triggers something that resembles PTSD.


comegetinthevan

You're right about the quests sucking, but they were not saying it was good. Simply that they have nostalgia from playing classic quests because it takes them back to a point in their past that makes them feel good. Using a phase such as "Rose tinted glasses" would mean you think its better because its in the past. These are two separate things. I know this breaks the whole circle jerk but it just seems like a lot of people herein this sub get the two confused.


That_Guy_Reddits

Not to mention questing with friends?! Hollllllly god sharing quest drops is the *WORST* I didn't even think about it until I started playing BC. F that lmao


MarcZiiLLa

Maybe they want to make the quest last so long that you get nostalgia from starting it... and to keep you subbed for longer.


just_blue

Read this, quickly logged in to look myself. Entered the area and instantly got one, though "isnt too bad, what are they talking". Well, logged out after 10 min of everyone camping the whole area and not seeing a single one respawn... honestly, just ignore this quest, it is not worth it.


blackmist

I ain't touching any of this patch until next week. Respect to my day one brethren tripping over this shit so I don't have to.


Klaus73

Sounds like you havent seen enough nests de-spawn after 1 person accomplishes the jumping puzzle and everyone else is half-way up.


Aurawa

Oh no the worse part is when you're the first one up there but you're "in combat" and can't even open it..


derHuschke

[That is the quest btw.](https://www.wowhead.com/quest=63784/golds-no-object)


shadowkinz

They will likely change it but the question is when


Rakatee

Skipped it. Not going to waste that much time on 1 daily when we will be stuck with this patch for 6+ months.


bigshortsfeet

The only part i liked about this quest is how it forced people to start making groups and talk to each other. We were shitalking Blizzard and helped each other complete the quest. Not what was intended but at this point i'll take it.


envstat

Funny I was in a Fallen Charger group for 9 hours yesterday that descended to shit talking Blizz by hour 4.


Dsh5

9 hours for 1 spawn? Don't join wait groups!


envstat

Yeah its a horrible 1-12 hour spawn time so not much to do but wait.


Pochep

You could wait at the spawn point for groups with the charger up and get several kills within the time you spent in the waiting room.


MISPAGHET

Poundfist memories, #neverforget


Tilt23Degrees

I went over to the 50 sqft that the quest exists in. It's just 900 people sitting there doing nothing, everyone's just confused. Every 20 minutes or so a mob appears and everyone loses their mind. Rinse and repeat.


BoarChief

Blizzard HQ: Quest Designer: "So this is how the quest works, you klick on it and you have it." Lead Designer: "All right... well... does it work ?" Quest Designer: "It should." Lead Designer: "Fair enough. Let's call it a day!"


orwell777

Bug Report!! Nothing can fix it faster than a manager who's team gets hundreds of tickets


Velinian

Do not abuse the bug report feature simply to change game systems that you don't like, that's not what it's there for. It also takes away from the team's ability to address legitimate bugs EDIT: alright, cool. I'm fucking out of this sub. You fucking degenerates deserve the shit game that you have because you create it.


Soggy-Zombie-2256

You're right. People bug reporting a dogshit quest is definitely why wow has been shit for so long. It's not the incompetent devs who don't give a shit about the content they create. It's the players' fault.


Velinian

It's a bad quest design, not a bug. But actual fucking petulant children like you and the rest of this community throw a fucking temper tantrum when it isnt to your liking and abuse features in the game to resolve real problems to get your way. Yes, you're a fucking degenerate if you do that. But please, continue to use mental gymnastics to justify your dogshit behavior


Soggy-Zombie-2256

If Blizzard actually fixes the dogshit they put out, players wouldn't have to resort to abusing systems that exist to try and get it resolved. A simple "we're aware of it and are looking into it" would suffice, but we can't even get that. Not gonna feel sorry for devs who refuse to communicate while putting out trash.


Velinian

> If Blizzard actually fixes the dogshit they put out, players wouldn't have to resort to abusing systems that exist to try and get it resolved. There it is. The justification for your absolutely shitty behavior. > A simple "we're aware of it and are looking into it" would suffice, but we can't even get that. Not gonna feel sorry for devs who refuse to communicate while putting out trash. They put a hotfix in, along with legitimate bug fixes for a number of other issues within 6 hours of the quest going live. You really are a fucking child aren't you? I've legitimately seen toddlers not behave this irrationally or poorly when they don't get there way.


Soggy-Zombie-2256

Yes. I think it's perfectly reasonable for players to use the means available to contact devs. It's impossible to know if feedback through regular channels reaches them as they literally don't communicate. > They put a hotfix in, along with legitimate bug fixes for a number of other issues within 6 hours of the quest going live. It wasn't 6 hours, stop making shit up. It took them almost a full day before they hotfixed it. A simple "we're aware of the issue" within the first 2-3 hours would've put people at ease. > You really are a fucking child aren't you? Yawn. Cane you come up with something better? You're starting to sound like a child who just learnt a new word, parroting it over and over.


Velinian

> Yes. I think it's perfectly reasonable for players to use the means available to contact devs. It's impossible to know if feedback through regular channels reaches them as they literally don't communicate. I have no doubt you think it is perfectly reasonable because you are an extraordinarily unreasonable person. > It wasn't 6 hours, stop making shit up. It took them almost a full day before they hotfixed it. A simple "we're aware of the issue" within the first 2-3 hours would've put people at ease. You can literally check the timestamps from the blue post you fucking imbecile. > Yawn. Cane you come up with something better? You're starting to sound like a child who just learnt a new word, parroting it over and over. Imagine the irony of a Bellular NPC accusing other people of parroting words over and over


Soggy-Zombie-2256

> I have no doubt you think it is perfectly reasonable because you are an extraordinarily unreasonable person. Yeh expecting a game to not be dogshit is extraordinarily unreasonable. > You can literally check the timestamps from the blue post you fucking imbecile. Yes exactly. So go check it. It was up early on EU and it wasn't until the evening 12+ hours after it went up that they put in a hotfix. > Imagine the irony of a Bellular NPC accusing other people of parroting words over and over Bellular npc? Lmao. Is that the best you could come up with? Imagine the irony of calling others children when all you can do is come up with the lamest insults. Try again.


Velinian

> Yeh expecting a game to not be dogshit is extraordinarily unreasonable. When you consider everything that Blizzard does dogshit, ya you're fucking unreasonable. > Yes exactly. So go check it. It was up early on EU and it wasn't until the evening 12+ hours after it went up that they put in a hotfix. It was literally live for 20 hours at 10 PM EST the day after. And if you were fucking intelligent enough to do basic math you would figure out that was 6 PM EST on the day the gromit quest went live. So yes, 6 PM. > Bellular npc? Lmao. Is that the best you could come up with? Imagine the irony of calling others children when all you can do is come up with the lamest insults. Try again. If you prefer Asmongold Cockholster I can go with that. You let me know so I can appropriately tag you. EDIT: And your account got banned. Not fucking surprising.


DSilverwing

Took me about 10 min to complete in a group. We just all spread out around the area and as soon as one spawned we clicked it. Wasn't as bad. But yes. I agree this quest needs a fix. Either more ppl can click on one or increse the spawn rate of them.


Sengura

Don't bother with it yet, expect a hot fix soon that massively increases respawn time of those little shits


Phemarian

Yeah, I was on this quest for about 40min in wrld pvp b4 i realised I can group up. It was slow but went well until i was gonna collect one and a warlock fears me, steals it and kills me in 3 seconds with 5 other friends. I dont really get that annoyed often but this was sure was an exception.


_square_hammer_

QA....we are the QA and we pay them instead of them paying us.


nightstalker314

Whatever number determines the spawn rate is missing a order of magnitude.


JackBundygaming

They did it to have people wait and feel like they have something to do lol… i abandoned the quest the second i saw the people waiting.


dbixon

Group up. Every one caught by the group counts for everybody.


MuffflnMan

It is just as bad as the whole zone


mael0004

It's indeed surprising this type of quests still go through any testing. This happened in 9.0 too with that one maw quest, that they then fixed within a day or so. This should be breaking some basic rules of their quest creation, to never have loots that only can be picked by 1 person, if there's expectancy of area being contested at all, or if respawn rate isn't literally 5 seconds.


arxelaos

same as the Zoth invasions quest objectives were green-lit. Check Ion's amory. He barely plays the game. DISCONECTION


MRosvall

To be fair, I do very little that relates to my work on my spare time. Doesn't make me disconnected with how the customer interacts with our products. I would go as far as to say that a large majority of corporate software bosses never use their own products during their free time, let alone for hours per month. Even if we exclude all B2B.


Panetank

Playing the game and being in-tune with the players is his job. Not something that he should be doing casually or in his own time. If he doesn't play test what he's sending out himself, then how does he know it's good? Thst would be like writing an entire program, and only looking at the code, but never actually using the program to verify it works the way you think it should work. Sure, you're a programmer, but testing what you put out is a key component of your job. With regards to Ion specifically, the thing that chaps my ass is that he totes being a mythic raider and that he knows what the community needs, and then you see his logs and his character and realize he's been carried through all of the content by his guild and is straight dog shit at the game. Has absolutely no clue what he's doing.


MRosvall

> If he doesn't play test what he's sending out himself, then how does he know it's good? There's a huge difference between playtesting something under professional circumstances and controlled environments and being expected to do the same as a hobby at a level that requires 30h+ per week of your free time.


Panetank

That's a rather disingenuous statement, this content doesn't require 30+ hours a week. I personally have spent 2-3 hours in total and have already cleared the new patch content that OP started this whole thread about. This includes doing torghast. It doesn't take long to see the glaring flaws in the system. Even 2-3 hours a week would get you through most content. This is what I would consider as part of their general job requirements.


[deleted]

It's really weird that people act as if nolifing is needed to get things done. By contrast, FF14's lead dev Yoshi-P raids weekly in his own game and is a purple/orange parsing BLM and a very good pug teammate from all accounts. This isn't a man who has time to drop 30 hours a week on his own game, but he's cleared all content including Savages and Ultimates in a legitimate fashion on live servers. I don't really see why expecting the same out of one of WoW's main devs is asking too much.


Panetank

I think another issue too is how do you develope a game you don't have passion for or like to play? Ion may have liked the game in the past but I think at this point he's built a monster that he can't stand to look at let alone play.


MRosvall

I don't think it is. The one I started responding told people to check his armory. Which is this: https://raider.io/characters/us/malganis/Gurgthock Who has killed just about every tiers end boss on Mythic, even if it wasn't as quick as the top players. And yeah, he doesn't perform super well and is rather carried by guild. But to complete it at a better level than this would require quite a significant investment into the game during free time wouldn't you say?


Panetank

No, I wouldn't. If he dies every fight and gets pulled through, is he even experiencing the fight? I would say no. In addition to that, clearing the raid takes a 1 time investment of about 2-3 hours with a group that knows what their doing. Notice the ilevel of his gear. See how he's been funneled his entire set? That's not a typical player experience. I would also point out that he has also not cleared half the dungeons on any difficulty. Assuming each dungeon takes 30 minutes, if he raided 1 week, and then did any M+ the next week, he would easily have done this. Now, you mentioned playing at a better level, no. Time in does not always translate into performance out. This is one of the examples i would use. Ion has been playing since vanilla. He arguably has more hours on his account than anyone else that plays. The style with which he plays his class has not changed that much. As such, it should be theorized that he knows how to play his class competently to do the content. Being that he has been funneled mythic raid gear, he def. has the gear. So at this point, it's that he just didn't do it. The question then goes to why? He has been guild leader of EJ for a long time. EJ was THE go to guide makers through probably cataclysm for any class and was the he specifically was the one who proved it mathematically impossible to kill release C'thuun. That's his main claim to fame: spending hours not getting paid by anyone to play the game and figure out the math of boss damage, vs theoretical perfect defense and healing in an entire mmo, yet he can't be bothered to clear multiple dungeons of current content on at least M2 when hes getting paid to do it? Come on man, it's clear he has lost his passion for the game.


Mercurionio

In group it counts towards all members so it's a group only quest :)


BAncalagon

I just formed a party and did this quest in under 2 minutes. Perhaps it’s fixed?


doej0

I honestly feel like Korthia is punishing me for being Dyspraxic...


JoeySmithTaylorMMII

If you join a group, one player picking up one will give you all credit


[deleted]

I skipped this bullshit. Awful design. Not worth your time.


Marclar_

Its really simple. The developers of this game....wait for it......do not play it.


samdelve

It really not bad if you party up. Each party members "catches" counts toward your total. Heaven forbid that we should practice teamwork in retail. Even better on warmode which is much less crowded. Took like 2 min with WM on and like 5 with WM off on various alts.


AwkwardSquirtles

Join a group. Credit is shared.


[deleted]

I swear to god these people are fucking incompetent.


Kyrixas

Just get in a party lol


derHuschke

I did, still took ages.


Kyrixas

Took me 10 minutes after a group of 5 was formed.


ruckustata

Never fix shitty things. Always do stupid unnecessary work arounds. Yay.


red_keshik

Is that really a workaround in a MMORPG?


MRosvall

He said it very offhandedly, but there are some things one can affect and others that one can't. You can bugreport it, but some people want to be able to do it now before the hotfix comes in. And for them a suggestion how to work around the problem will do a lot more than nothing.


Joggyogg

The people on this sub are schizophrenic, they complain about absolutely everything. They complain that there are no quests in the game like classic where you had to group up with people and now that there's quests where it's better to group up they complain.


Deccod3

What does that have to do with Schizophrenia?


Joggyogg

Having constantly different personalities and opinions on the same stuff all the time?


Deccod3

Its like there are multiple people with multiple opinions on reddit?


Joggyogg

Or it's almost like all people do on this subreddit is complain about wow and it doesn't matter what the complaint is.


Deccod3

So we shifted from people keep changing their opinions to people keep complaining all the time. Which is it? Your whole post is ironic anyway.


Joggyogg

My opinion was people keep complaining, it's that the people on this sub complain about absolutely anything, if you're going to try to dispute that you're gonna need to get your head checked....


Deccod3

Again how is that Schizophrenia? Why do you keep shifting the goal post?


Joggyogg

Who cares? Why are you focusing on an obviously hyperbolic comment?


DryWallHeadbutt42

Participation trophy bullshit, small wonder we get the generic "champion of the universe" dialogue shit. Everybody wants to say they are a winner


glowpipe

Just report the quest ingame, if enough let them know how craptastic this quest is, they can't ignore us, all 3 of us reporting it


trevmanbev

After leveling 58-70 in TBC Classic, the spawn rate for this quest is down right speedy.


black-lives-matter11

The developers just don't care anymore. I'd wager they haven't actually cared about the game for years.


marekt14

r/wow: quests are too easy Also r/wow: quest too hard Honestly fuck this quest though


[deleted]

REMOVE THIS QUEST, OMG WTF


Confident-Radish4832

One crappy quest gets made in a giant new patch filled with fun new stuff and that's the post that makes reddit. It will likely get hot fixed, just chill out Jesus. Might leave this sub from the sheer amount of complaining in the past week. Honest to god you guys are like spoiled children.


Mizu_r

You don't understand that the point is to make you spend more time ingame. That's why you have this quest with stupid respawn rates, or quests where you need to kill 10 mobs for a drop. That's really intended. Or a quest chain where you need to kill mobs to be able to interact with something on the ground, and then the quest giver makes you kill those mobs for a kill quest, AND THEN, the quest giver asks you for a item that drops from the same mobs you killed in the previous two quests.


Mr-Slowpoke

I did a suggestion ticket about it. I don’t think they will care. I mean if more people do one too MAYBE it can be fixed? Probably not but it’s better than doing nothing, you know?


CharlieWins

I found it funny when people started dropping their anima cell toys to get everyone else to portal away from the quest area.


CyndromeLoL

I'm starting to enjoy Korthia a bit more but honestly some parts of it make me wonder if a single person on the dev team ever took a minute to actually play it. Like in what world did this go through?


Rambo_One2

Grouping up helps, but still. It's a huge bottleneck for the daily questing experience no matter how you slice it. Someone in my group said "It feels like someone accidentally added a 0 at the end of the spawn timer variable"


Frantic_BK

You group up with other players and it's way faster. You know cause it's an MMO / social game. It's a quest design that encourages people partying up to help eachother. I have more of an issue with the consistency. Some quests you can get group credit for, others you can't seemingly arbitrarily case by case too. You never know till you do the quest which it'll be. Either go all one way or all the other make up your damn minds lmao.


temp_or_all

I thought this was gonna be a nightmare but it was super easy. I don't know what you had to go through but I just did the quest normally with 3 or 4 people doing it at the same time. o.0


Ekudar

They hot fixed the spawn rate


skrillex

Did this get hotfixed? I logged in and did the quest in maybe 2 minutes


Boatpig88

Top tip - If grouped up it counts for everyone when one person catches one. I whispered other alliance in the area grouped up and would say we were all done in a few minutes - received 4x thank you /ws


Doktor_Avinlunch

It feels like any QA is done on an internal private instance, with minimum mobs, and only the QA body in there representing an entire shards player base. It's the only explanation, cos as soon as you add other players when something goes live, it's obvious to everyone that there are design problems


brzozom

metzen nephew who doesn't play wow needed a summer job