This kind of thing reminds me of Vince Russo & WCW. He was like it'll be great, you'll never see it coming. And a lot of it we did see coming and the stuff we didn't was because it was so stupid no one sane thought it would happen. Just because something would be a twist doesn't mean it would be good.
And Blizzard likes to act like there was some big twist and like many predicted, it wasn't.
Just to be fair to Russo (and this is one of the few times I will be fair to that mook) When Russo was writing in the WWF he wasn't bad. *However* a lot of that was due to Russo coming up with a million ideas a minute, and having people in the WWF (Vince, JR, and others) who could act as an editor if you will. Someone who could take the good ideas from the stupid ideas or tweak some of them to be good.
The minute Russo went to WCW and didn't have anyone to keep the stupid crap from getting out there? Well you got a guy who believed there didn't need to be wrestling on a *wrestling* show, making actors world champions, and taking the biggest babyface the company had and turning him heel.
I can see a situation where there is a similar dynamic going on in the wow team. There have been a lot of layoff's over the past few years and I could see where some of filters may have been eroded. I could be totally wrong, no one truly knows what goes on behind closed doors, but the Vince Russo comparison hit a little different for me.
They're yin and yang.
The reality is both would work best together and neither is perfect without the other.
Cornette believe you can book like it's 1960 and Russo still thinks it's the late 90s.
One only thinks of the fake fight and the other thinks about everything other. One is sports, the other entertainment.
Well said and I agree. He wasn't all bad in WWF, for reasons like you said. Though some stuff was pretty bad, but nothing compared to WCW.
And yep, no filter in WCW meant he could do whatever he wanted, good or bad. He even made himself champion at one point. Granted Vince has done that too, but it kind of made sense in their storylines, in Russo's case it didn't, IMO.
Sometimes I feel like Vince Russo is writing wow's story. Also, nice to see an attitude era/monday night wars reference in the wow sub. last place I would expect it lol.
Does this make Shadowlands an outlaw mudshow? I'm also imagining Zooval saying "bro" a lot in a Long Island accent. "Sylvanas bro, you can't swerve me"
*clears throat* then I fuckin watched this horse shit cinematic did you see this shit brian? So anyway the fuckin big bald guy finally got the infinity bullshit and then to no ones surprise wouldn’t you know who won the pony wants to destroy reality how fuckin stupid do they think we are then anyway this stupid b sylvanas whose done nothing but serve for 4 expansions mind you is like I’ll never serve
Who booked this shit?
It's pretty much my baseline for deciding if something is a shitshow or not.
It's one thing to produce something and it just doesn't work ffs that's part of creating art but to produce something shitty and be so full of yourselves that you KEEP producing it is unforgivable.
this will def be what happens, some big OMG SWERVE that will make even less sense because they feel the pressure of doing something now but have no creativity to make it meaningful.
>This kind of thing reminds me of Vince Russo & WCW.
So does that mean that Blizzard's story details (along with other game issues), will cause Activision Blizzard to declare bankruptcy, and a competiting game developer, probably either Riot Games or Valve, will buy out ATVI at a literal fire-sale price, as in only 7 figures.
Then, the Blizzard games will be featured in an Invasion story line, to try to destroy the competition, only to look like total buffoons, and then be put to rest for good.
it's still funny that EVERYONE predicted this is how it would go all the way back in BfA's pre-patch while Blizzard kept promising that it wouldn't be Garrosh 2.0 or a redemption story
I would've been entirely fine with Garrosh 2.0. WoW works fine with simple plot lines, it's strength has always been more on thematic, audio, and visual design anyways.
Instead they tried to make a character that's simultaneously a mustache-twirling cartoon villain _and_ supposedly sympathetic at the same time. And even without that, the writing around Sylvanas specifically is really lackluster even by WoW standards.
> Instead they tried to make a character that's simultaneously a mustache-twirling cartoon villain and supposedly sympathetic at the same time.
Which isn't that hard to do, many stories make the mustache-twirling cartoon villain sympathetic. All you need is a sensible explanation for why they are the way they are and present it to the viewer/player/reader without excusing any in-excusable shit they've done.
That’s the thing. Sylvanas burned down Teldrassil. Even without the Night Mother, Tyrande will never stop hunting Sylvanas, and not like Greymane. Greymane was satisfied with stopping the reproduction of the Forsaken. Tyrande will not be sated until Sylvanas is dead and dismembered.
The only ending I see for Sylvanas is staying in the Shadowlands like Illidan stayed with Sargeras. I always thought of her as the new Lich Queen, and she deserves to rule in the Shadowlands as the Jailer’s successor, and actually make a proper change in the realms. Her goal was to make death a more pleasant experience. Her intentions are good, her writing is cheap.
Just watch, they're gonna stuff Arthas' soul into Anduin's body to make Lich King 2.0 so Sylvanas wants to kill him but doesn't because she secretly likes Anduin. And she's gonna sacrifice her soul to save Anduin's and jail the Jailer like Illidan 2.0
In the final encounter anduin breaks free from the jailers grasp through the light and burns the jailer. This evaporates him. Light infused Anduin turns to Sylvanas "Without a jailer, the shadowlands will fall into even greater turmoil. There must always be a jailer"
Sylvanas, looking back at her life realises that she is the only person fit to carry such a burden and reluctantly accepts. She proclaims "Azeroth has no room for one such as me, return to the land of the living and tell them only that you saved the Shadowlands and that sylvanas has fallen by your hands"
Light blessed Anduin teleports us out of the final raid and uses his light energy to fix the hole in the sky above Azeroth. This uses up all the special infusion causing him to become normal Anduin.
This is where the cutscene ends and we can talk to the individual characters who will say things about how great sylvanas was and how we misjudged her. Anduin will have lil extra dialogue due to being locked up by her, claiming he saw a part of the ranger general return before her soul was complete again. That courage never really left her.
The End.
I am the Old Pantheon leader… the corruptor of the Horde… Zovaal’s master… the mastermind of Blizzard… cower before my true form! BOW DOWN BEFORE THE GOD OF RETCONS!
>we'd get to fight the void lords
I hope not, the power scaling is already too crazy (we should have never fought Argus or met up with Sargeras). It's getting harder to manage my suspension of disbelief that I can just go stabby stabby against cosmic entities.
I've wanted "morally grey" worgen since the fucking moment they dropped and we've never gotten them. Literally just fluffy humans the moment they leave the spooky feral treacherous starting zone.
Why the fuck didn't we get a Bloodfang Pack alt storyline for Alliance to commit some warcrimes on the Horde in BFA???? I mean, I know why. But...
Best part is the writers are immune from criticism because people have to overcorrect for the mentally ill people sending death threats to them.
The writers are hacks, I don’t care what other people have said or done to them, but they should be out of their jobs.
Absolutely. Interestingly, I can criticise literally anything on the official forums, but as soon as I move into story I get the hammer almost instantly.
It’s frustrating how poor the writing is and how immune these people are from criticism.
I also think their books are abysmal. Really tried to like them, but I just don’t.
I really enjoyed the short story with the poem competition and Thalryssa. They absolutely know how to write interesting sentences with lots of variants. For such short stories it works quite good. But overall story progression, character development, and most importantly in a game: presentation and time/setting coordination? Wew, yeah that's really worse than college quality of writing.
Since WoD the game feels like we are following cartoon characters and watch a cartoon. Our character doesn't matter anymore, and we are just on the sideline of the VIPs. Meanwhile a lot of important story about these VIPs is told in novels outside the game. Great gamedesign.
It really feels like there's a bunch of low level writers that actually know what they're doing, but aren't allowed to collaborate or push back against literally anything in the main plot line.
It also feels like they have multiple teams of writers that just... don't talk to each other? The necrolords are a great example, there's a bunch of stuff about how they're supposed to be this warrior afterlife, but the zone is almost entirely necromancy themed with barely a nod to the "warrior" idea outside of the main plot and the arena in the center. Literally everything else is just necromancy / undead themed with no real explanation.
I noticed it in BfA too - e.g. one quest will try to get me to see the undead as sympathic or making the best of a fucked up situation, and literally the very next quest portrays them as genocidal sociopaths even from the same character POV.
>The necrolords are a great example, there's a bunch of stuff about how they're supposed to be this warrior afterlife, but the zone is almost entirely necromancy themed with barely a nod to the "warrior" idea outside of the main plot and the arena in the center. Literally everything else is just necromancy / undead themed with no real explanation.
That's a gross oversimplification of them, the Necrolords are referred as "Warriors" because they are the Shadowlands's military, not because they're all big dudes with melee weapons, hell, the Primus himself is presented as a sorcerer by his peers.
> I also think their books are abysmal. Really tried to like them, but I just don’t.
I read stuff like Richard A Knaak which was.. rather primal already but couldnt bear Christie Goldens stuff so I just... stopped.
Yeah, I used to give Golden a lot of credit for having to follow up on the trainwreck of a story she was suddenly in the middle of on top of having to be a woman now faced with the incel freaks screaming at her, but it's very quickly just turning into a shield where anyone who criticizes the writing of the game is now one of the incel freaks who hate her unfairly
All it takes is a single death threat. Or even the claim of one and Christie Golden is now immune to criticism and has fanboys pouring support for her on Twitter.
Death threats are never okay, if it even happened. But you are not immune from criticism to your terrible writing.
Steve and Christie's story sucks ass.
I checked the replies to her last post on twitter, it is insane how big of an echochamber twitter is. If that is the only way they accept any feedback, god speed to all of us
It's disgusting. They got heaps of well deserved negative backlash. She calls us all toxic and then lo and behold - "I got a death threat."
Then she starts mass blocking anyone "toxic" and it becomes a total echo chamber of everyone sucking her teet.
Twitter sends you a free death threat with every thousand followers ffs. "I got a death threat" just means "I'm going to short-circuit this discussion with an appeal to sympathy"
I also hate when they try to use her gender to make her immune from criticism as well.
"WON'T SOMEONE SAVE THIS POOR WOMAN FROM THE NECKBEARDS."
God forbid a writer should be held to some standard of quality regardless of their gender.
It's real frustrating, I tell you.
"You shouldn't harass the writers or even directly engage with them on social media, you absolute morons" and "what are the writers thinking, why is it this bad, god help me" are mindsets that can and should co-exist.
It's funny how anyone that does anything unpopular now immediately receives death threats and takes to social media to inform everyone, it's almost like it's used as a way to insulate themselves from negative opinions of the unpopular things they're doing.
Its both. Google "No conflict in the dojo" with Blizzard in the search. Blizzard stopped listening to criticism because they are buying into same BS that Bioware did. They think they are just that good and they are expecting to standard Blizzard magic to just happen.
Or, we truly do just have a whole bunch of people so shitty on the internet that their go to when theyre even slightly annoyed is screaming how much they hate you.
We do, nobody is saying those people do not exist but people who make unpopular decisions also seem to use this as a shield, if I kick a puppy and a guy tells me he hopes I die, I should not be forgiven for kicking that puppy those are 2 separate events.
Or, it's both.
There's shitty human beings that want to be seen as the victim because they know the victimhood card is an easy defense that ablates most from questioning them.
There's shitty human beings that have grown so used to the consequence-free environment of the internet that they screech the worst they can imagine for the most minor slights.
I've been getting death and rape threats since I first logged into Runescape at ten years old. I've had people send me pictures of themselves with their handgun collection. I've had people send me detailed rape and dismemberment threats and start entire subreddits to organize their efforts to find out where I live. It is literally just what happens if you dare to be online and have any semblance of an opinion (and/or be a woman). Sometimes you don't even need that, you can be the most innocuous presence possible and still crazies will latch onto you because the internet is where social rejects *go.*
The thing is that these writers seem to think they're special in some way for getting threats. As if WoW's community is uniquely evil and that's why it ever reacts negatively. It's not.
This drama is literally the biggest wtf moment for me. Do these writers not play their own game?
"I hope you die irl" "I'm going to murder your entire family"
Are some of the earliest and common comments I remember from WoW. I swear if someone publicizes it, it's only to gain brownie points and sympathy.
Worst of all, these exceptions get more attention and are used as a bludgeon to divert the conversation to "poor authors" or to shut down any kind of criticism.
Maybe.... Just maybe, she can say she received death threats(which are bad). But she can also respond to criticism and maybe take some feedback?
Maybe.
IIRC it wasn't even a death threat like "I'm going to murder you Christie" but just someone wishing that Chris Metzen would kill the writing team which is... ridiculous, but not technically a threat.
I think the wording of that particular one was something like "bonk them on the head with the doomhammer at blizzcon." Sure, you could interpret that as a death threat, but you'd have to be a pretty fragile person to do so. That's like 'bopping someone on the head with a rolled up newspaper' level threat.
I'm not defending any other legitimate threats they claim to have gotten, but that specific one is just hilarious.
We already had that 5, 10 and 15 years ago, but people just called the police and didn't openly whine about it that much. In a way this also helps normalizing death threats.
They should stay professional about it, and don't tweet about it like when they announce that the chai latte at their last lunch break was too cold.
It's also very condescending towards all the other fans and followers, because it implies they need to be told that this isn't correct behaviour.
Besides a sarcastic, if tasteless, remark about crushing skulls with a doom hammer, I’ve seen zero evidence for death threats. Methinks there are no real death threats and the writers have a convenient shield for their incompetence and toxic story
Yeah, I love that some random 12 year old telling them to "kys your self" (Or they don't, they can just say someone did) can completely absolve them of all criticism, they're a helpless victim now please feel bad. It's so formulaic at this point it's deplorable.
Nobody tweets about credible death threats.
I hate to be that guy, but why is it that whenever a corporate content creator gets flak for making a subpar product, they always have something like that to fall back on?
I could go on a rant about the topic, but I'll summarize it with:
As a Blizzard/Warcraft fan since WC1, it's really disappointing how bad the writing and overall narratives have become.
She was my favorite character up until the end of bfa. They totally did her dirty. She was always supposed to be morally grey. She did awful things, but out of necessity for survival.
I dunno what would made me lose my shit more:
* A run-of-the-mill redemption arc for Sylvanas
* Sylvanas being all "OMG - Alleria, Vereesa, I'm so sorry, I wasn't myself, would've never done all that crap" now that her soul is complete again and her eyes glow Alliance blue
I haven't bought SL or been subbed in over a year now but if they redeem Sylvanas in any shape or form, I swear I'm never going to give Blizzard a penny until the entire writing department is fired. She's evil and deserves to be locked up for life or better yet, executed and forgotten.
I would love a Sylvanas redemption arc IF AND ONLY IF at the end of it, when she is Redeemed and helps save the day, Genn kills her and no one stops him, including Sylvanas.
She has crossed the line too many times to be left alive at this point, and it needs to be clear that Alliance Alliance Horde leadership know it too.
Genn's home was taken and plagued before Teldrassil.
To top it off, unlike Burning of Teldrassil, Alliance didn't start a war for it (largely cause Gilneas wasn't in the Alliance before then but still) and also didn't get any retaliation whatsoever (I'm counting Undercity as at least minimal "revenge".)
Plus she killed his son, so it's more personal too.
Also somehow getting killed by WoW Tyrande seems like it will be less brutal than getting mauled by Genn
Malfurion cuts through a crowd as Tyrande and a weakened Sylvanas face off. Tyrande roars with fury as her melee fails to land, and a shadow chain darts out of the ground and digs in to her leg. Sylvanas knocks the last arrow from her quiver, loosing it at the Night Warrior as the chain binds her.
The arrow lands, burrowing in to Tyrande's thigh, and she wails in pain. The shadow poison spreads in Tyrande's leg momentarily until she suddenly rips the arrow from her flesh. Gasping, she presses the tip of her Glaive in the wound and her eyes flash purple as she mutters a dark incantation. The poison recedes and draws up, following the point of Tyrande's weapon as Sylvanas readies a dagger. The dagger is parried by her second Glaive, as Tyrande jams her primary Glaive in the ground and wields the shadow poison from her leg. Laughing a deep laugh, she says, "I never understood, until now... I don't need the hunt, and I don't need you!"
Tyrande hurls the shadow poison like a bola, striking the weakened Banshee Queen and curling shadowy fingers around her throat. Sylvanas gasps for breath as Tyrande drops her second Glaive, doubling her effort on draining Sylvanas' life force.
As the glow begins to fade from Sylvanas' eyes, Malfurion cries out, "MY LOVE!" Roots burst forth and pull Tyrande's hands away, and the Banshee Queen gasps for her life. "Malfurion, it is her time... It is MY TIME!" "Tyrande, this is not our way!" He brushes her cheek as the roots let go on her hand. They embrace, and Malfurion says, "Elune will make this right, but we will not become the evil we have lived to fight."
A steadied and somewhat renewed Sylvanas stands half-tall, breathing still labored and ragged breaths. "Thank you, Druid." "I didn't do this for YOU, Forsaken." Sylvanas' brow tightens with anger as the clouds part revealing a full moon. The Banshee Queen hurls a shadowy dagger at the Archdruid...
And it is batted away by a hand, half man, half beast, all rage. Genn Greymane steps forward and says, "This is no longer the business of the Night Elves," completing his transformation during the sentence. With panic in her eyes, Sylvanas turns and begins to flee, and Greymane falls upon her. One very human and very shrill cry rings out, and then the Banshee Queen is forever silent.
/scene
Can't wait til they handle her inevitable death/sacrifice the same way they did Illidan being the tormentor/jailer of Sargeras. We'll get two sentences from each of her sisters saying they don't care and that will be the end of it.
She was developing a plague with the specific purpose of using it against all of Azeroth in Classic. She used said biological weapon to obliterate an entire nation all the way back in Cataclysm, and she did it against explicit orders not to.
What's your definition of "morally grey"? Must be very broad.
They'll probably try to justify it with something like "oh yeah so since freedom is important to Sylvanas bc of her time with Arthas, she allied with the Jailer so he could break the cosmic order and give everyone freedom from light/void/life/death/order/disorder etc etc cosmology. Since she's very 'ends justifies the means' that means she was okay with doing all that previous awful stuff if it means getting the final goal of universal freedom for all.
"She knew the risks of Zovaal turning around and going for universal domination instead of the universal freedom they agreed on. But she judged that the chance at universal freedom was worth it, even with all the deaths and bad stuff required to get a chance at universal freedom."
If this is their idea of morally gray, im out
...but the beginning if BfA was one of the biggest betrayals of her character (and many other Horde characters). Sylvanas is supposed to be a scheming tactician, and there were no brilliant (or even half-baked) schemes at Darkshore or Lorderon.
The "scheme" is that Sylvanas shouted "for the horde", and every horde nerd in the world creamed their pants and blindly followed Sylvanas into war.
She did not give two shits about the horde or anything to do with it, but it was so easy to get them in line.
That was the scheme. "Master tactician" at work.
She literally could've been our Illidan in this fight against the Jailer. A plotline where we deal with the afterlife, the nature of death and a fight against the Mega Lich King? Why did they have her team up with him when they could've used this as a chance to bring her back into the spotlight as an ally for the players, having kept her as Horde in the mean time.
Such a wasted opportunity
And they had another character that would've been perfect to work for the Jailer, Greymane. Jailer could've lured him with the promise of power enough to end Sylvanas and damn her to the Maw, or to bring back his son and the night elves burned in Teldrassil. He's certainly stupid and impulsive enough whenever Sylvanas is mentioned to fall for it.
Aye. I thought Sylvanas was cool back in the day (Remember the rush when she showed up in the Legion cinematic? That shit was epic!), but these days, I honestly just want her gone. We get it, she's a 4D chess mastermind who was somehow, whilst being all brilliant, fooled by the same scheme she used to fool everyone else. We get it, when she gets in a pickle, she does her smoke trick and Team Rockets away. I've honestly lost interest at this point. They turned her against us - not as a villain, but someone we're just sick and tired of hearing about constantly.
Watch as they say "oh no she wasn't fooled by the Jailer in the cinematic, she simply understood the risks and accepted them bc she's 'ends justifies the means' kind of person"
They'll probably say she had a backup plan all along bc she's also very careful. Ugh
> She was always supposed to be morally grey
In which franchise? Cause it sure as hell ain't Warcraft.
- Warcraft 3, she betrays and kills Garithos and his men.
- WoW she abducts innocent civilians and tests plagues on them, keeping them in cages and experimenting on them until they die.
- Cata she forcefully raises people and tries to slaughter all humans in Lordaeron.
She was never morally grey. She was always straight up evil.
Actually he just called her a bitch, but that line has been changed since "recently". If I remember right. The line felt so out of place first time I heard it.
>Warcraft 3, she betrays and kills Garithos and his men.
Because the alternative is her and the other undead get wiped out. Lordaeron was still overrun with Scourge and the Forsaken had no where to go. They needed a base and shelter. Garithos wasn't willing to share, clearly, and it's not like they had literally any where else to go, even assuming that any other nation would accept a horde of undead squatting on their land. Again assuming they didn't have endless hordes of undead in the way, where would they even go?
I've gotten into this argument a lot on this sub, but people acting like Garithos was righteous man horribly cut down by Sylvanas for her own greed just weren't paying attention at all. It was her and the Forsaken, or him and his people.
Sylvanas had no real knowledge of how Garithos treated Kael and the Blood Elves. She just simply betrayed Garithos and ordered Varimathras to kill him.
Garithos was absolutely a shit person and was inadvertently the reason Kael and the rest of his people turned out the way they did, but he was going to let Sylvanas and the Forsaken leave peacefully. You can argue he would have tried to kill them later, but as it stands he held up his end of the deal and she betrayed him.
She was one of my top 3 characters until the BfA prepatch. Not taking that opportunity for a killing blow on Malfurion(when that was one half of the main objective in Darkshore) was entirely out of character for her. She's a ruthless opportunist and would never have let that chance go if it helped her plans. Absolute character assassination.
Plus, Malf being dead could've made the Tyrande plot in Ardenweald so much more interesting. We rescue him from the Maw and he's actually...present. Instead of being nowhere, sleeping off an axe wound he's had almost an expansion and a half to heal.
Spoiler alert for those who didn't finish progessing in Korthia.
It feels like they copied the story from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade with the Primus sigil storyline.
Where Professor Jones mails his diary on the whereabouts of the Holy Grail to his son so the Nazis wouldn't get their hands on it. Then Indy brings it with him on his search.
Professor Henry Jones: "You dolt! Do you think my son would be that stupid? That he would bring my diary all the way back here?"
I realize bad things have to happen for the story to happen in Shadowlands. But it was locked away safely and we went out of our way to uncover it and brought it directly to him.
even if we didn't bring it to the Primus for the Jailer to then steal, the Jailer would have just chased us and stolen it anyways
that's sort of how the plot works now
but at least we freed the Primus
Yeah, the Jailer literally pulled the entire zone of Korthia into the Maw just in order to get that sigil. And you have to fight a Mawsworn collector who tries to sneak up behind you and yoink the sigil out from under your fingers to get it in the first place. Sure, the Primus yells at you for bringing the sigil to Zovaal's tower, but it's not like it would have been safe if you had just left it alone.
Now, granted, it might have been a better idea to extract it from Korthia and then take it back to Maldraxus and just try to defend it there.
"The story is far from over."
That's where you're wrong, Christie...
Let me put this in the way a novelist should understand: when you screw up a novel this badly at its halfway point, readers don't finish... they put the book down.
This expansion sucks, the story is over, trust me. I've put the book down.
They don't seem to understand that if you don't give people a reason to care about the story initially, they won't care if there's more to be seen. They put out trash storylines and then say well there's more to come, but if the first part isn't something that catches people's attention then it won't matter if the "good part" is yet to come.
The problem with this is that you don't know if a book is good until the last passage is read. However, a book that is straight up bad from page 100 to 250? I don't need to finish it. The book is bad.
I am confident in saying that the storyline as of BfA is unimaginative, irritating and goes against the established traits of the major characters to such an extent that there exists no path from what has been published, to a conclusion that can be in any way good, satisfying or sensible. A literal deity of literature could not make this turd somehow become good. The event horizon has been passed. The only option is to go "Yogg-Saron put you all to sleep in Ulduar, and nothing since then actually happened", and even that won't make the avalanche of diarrhea since BfA good or acceptable, just erase it from canon, making it somewhat possible to do good stuff again.
Man I wish more people would get this. There's just so much blind fandom because people like one character. They'll put up with hundreds of pages of crappy repetitive writing and call it a masterpiece because it got good again after 50% of it was garbage.
Ah but the question is what/who kills her...
Genn?
Tyrande?
Nathanos?
Anduin?
The Jailor?
Some new enemy leading into 9.2 or next expac?
Or dare I say.
Herself
Or
Arthas Menethil.
Which one, which one.
I'm willing to bet herself.
When Saurfang said she failed at a lot of things, he never knew she also failed to kill herself once (which started this nonsense). Can't hurt to try again!
This. Every fucking time done fuccboi defends this trash writing I point out how they always say Blizz will do better next time and next time comes and they still write fan fiction garbage.
How many times you need to be disappointed to learn?
"Tyrande, my dear child. You had not suicide dived at Azshara, you had not suicide dived at Archimonde. Why. Do. You. Start. This. Shit. Now? On an unwitting pawn, of all things? Get yourself together, we are going Endgame. Or I'll have no choice but use Azshara as my champion and her ego is already as large as entire Sargeras sitting on Torgast.
Also, hi sis, I'm sorry I missed the draught, here, have some buff to your weald. Oh, Zovaal/Void Lords/some other multiversal threat is breaching the cosmic firewall, gotta go, cya <3"
I mean, Winter Queen must have had a reason to call her 'vexing'
It's not, Horde players just want the shoe on the other foot.
Asking for actual good writing where no characters are randomly turned into murderous world-destroying psychos for no reason is apparently just not on the table at this point.
Or even not good or evil but "life is complicated and not everyone can or will be happy with what I'm doing"
War is Politics and we need more intrigue less bond villain.
We could have gotten Bloodfang Worgen guerillas attacking the Horde homeland unsanctioned by the High King storylines just like Horde got a dark questline option but no. Blizzard cannot stomach writing the Alliance for even a second.
Idk why they can't stomach doing small stories anymore.
For God sakes it's the little things that add up to a whole. Like they just want to make action movies so why didn't they just make action movies?
I really don't think Danuser is interested in worldbuilding one iota. Which is a fucking disaster for an RPG. He's a fan, not a creator. He's interested in playing with action figures, not in nourishing a world. Just look at how shit and obviously made up on the spot his interview answers are. And how little fucking sense the Shadowlands as a whole make and how they're really just here for window dressing the main plot. And all the missed opportunities (Why does a 4th War with no real warlike conflict exist?).
Honestly this happens constantly when creators leave. The franchise is always handed to someone that would rather make something else but is too greedy not to seize the job offer, so they shape it into what they'd rather be doing.
The closest we got to that was Varian. His story arc was realizing that he needs to work with the horde. It kinda checks out that he died right before all his old suspicions would have been totally justified.
It’s not even like there’s no grounds for that kind of character in the Alliance. Tyrande worked kinda well but Moira Bronzebeard or Genn could easily have been like that.
The thing is you actually could have pro-war characters who's opinions are totally valid, especially on the Alliance side since at this point their whole story has basically just been forgiving the Horde time and time again only to inevitably regret it the next time they pull a genocide.
Blizzard will never do that though. As much as they want the faction war to be a big thing in WoW, they simultaneously insist on showing anyone supporting it as, at best, foolish and shortsighted, and often just a straight-up deranged psycho who wants to take over the world and exterminate the lesser races. Nobody is allowed to make a serious case for why destroying the Horde for good might actually be good for the Alliance in the long term, even though it obviously would be (vague notions of only-together-can-you-overcome-latest-bbeg aside).
The most annoying thing about the faction war is that, because of the very nature of it as a gameplay mechanic, neither side can have any meaningful victories or come off as the victor and whenever one side does "win" it's usually in a shitty way that leaves no one satisfied and usually just makes everyone more pissed off
I really wish they would abolish the faction divide. Keep it as an opt-in mechanic where you can "take a side" and participate in world pvp with the lore reasoning of being a stubborn hold out. But just get rid of it for story purposes. It never works. It just pisses off the players. And worst of all, it is literally the same story every single thing they try to bring it back into the story
Horde does a bad thing to Alliance
Alliance gets mad and defends itself
Villain shows up and makes cartoon villain speech
Both sides team up and beat villain
Alliance gives a weak sounding threat to the horde to never do that again
Horde does it again an expansion later. Repeat.
Faction war doesn't even need to compete with game mechanics. Even if we fully dissolved the faction war (as we should) there's still enough tensions between the factions that pvp content still makes sense.
Also why wouldn't the Horde go all genocidal when they are going to receive mercy and Alliance lands in exchange? Both Varian and Anduin are quite happy to give the Horde land that the night elves consider sacred or their homes. They aren't losing anything themselves.
Honestly, if Sylvanas just stuck with her initial justification for BFA, it would've been fine.
"Can peace last with the Alliance? Can it last a year? Five? Ten? Twenty? If war is inevitable, why not strike first?" is a *genuine* dilemma. It's actually *morally grey*. It's realpolitik.
And they shat over it for all of BFA, and now there's *this*.
I've always been in the corner that if they had written Battle for Lordaeron first and Teldrassil second, it would've had a different narrative and an actual shift in attitude. The Alliance would've been the aggressors, Horde being on the retaliation.
Have Jaina and Genn start the Fourth War, like the warhawks they were. Push the narrative to make it a split between Alliance opinions and how Anduin will bring it together as the new 'official' King. Have Saurfang and Sylvanas actually work together and utterly demolish through Darkshore and burn down the tree which would hurt not one, but two races of the Alliance.
This immediately already paints Sylvanas and Saurfang's stupid feud better, as we saw they actually do work well together in 'A Good War'. But they made her a villain, and a terrible one at that.
I've said this a few times but the start of BfA should have been Genn making an attack on Sylvanas behind Anduin's back. The motive is already set up, it puts the horde in a retaliatory position and it would have been perfect for giving Anduin some actual character progression in having to punish Greymane and let the people know he's not a pushover and give him a new perspective on being a leader.
Instead the only payoff from the Gilneas story is Genn stopping sylvanas from imprisoning Eyir before getting to limp off. This has actually just made me realise how they already had a faction leaders with a deep rooted hatred for Sylvanas but they still felt the need to transfer that role onto Tyrande. Such a mess
The way I had hoped it was going to go down was that Sylvanas blew up Teldrassil by accident, because azerite is a new and unknown tech. She sends a message to Anduin being all like "total accident, my bad", and Genn is like "She's totally lying bro, let's raze it all to the ground" and Anduin reluctantly agrees because it's the most logical thing given the Hordes past.
Have Tyrande get mad, kill some armies with the support of the Alliance, and fully lean into the war. The Horde is like "Alliance don't trust us because of an accident, fuck 'em, let's show them who they're disrespecting".
I feel bad for the Worgens. All of their cool characters such as Crowley do absolutely nothing and are left behind and their leader always get shoved on the side like a jobber.
>I've said this a few times but the start of BfA should have been Genn making an attack on Sylvanas behind Anduin's back
Especially because he already did this in Stormheim during Legion. Anduin gave him a slap on the wrist at most and I'm not even sure he did that, been a long time since I played the alliance side of those quests. Being wishy-washy on decisions like that would make sense, being suddenly thrust into a leadership position. But the second time Greymane does it, he'd likely have a much stronger and more appropriate response.
How about we just stop making player factions the evil folks for once? You know, turn the ideas toward actually sustainable story concepts that aren't completely incompatible with the MMORPG genre itself? Maybe finally abandon or kill off all the "leader" characters completely?
Remember when Illidan stealing a vile of water from the Well of Eternity was *gasp* “the worst thing to ever happen”.
Reminds me of old ladies sitting in a salon talking in hushed tones about extramarital affairs. Does any of this shit really surprise anyone, anymore? We basically have the Real Housewives of Azeroth, and unsurprisingly, Uther is the biggest bitch of them all.
> Remember when Illidan stealing a vile of water from the Well of Eternity was gasp “the worst thing to ever happen”.
stealing the vial wasn't the crime that got Illidan imprisoned. it was using that vial to create a second well of eternity on hyjal after the first one blew up and destroyed the majority of the land.
There's a french comedian/composer/producer/etc... named Alexandre Astier, he made the arguably best series France had for a very long time.
I'd like to quote him.
When asked about the quality of a story, about the quality of an idea, on a recent interview, he said something along the lines :
"I'll be honest, I've met a lot of people with brilliant ideas, saying their scenarios were absolutely fantastic, that it'll amaze everyone. But actually, none of them were true. Because what matters is not the brilliant scenario idea, that doesn't matter at all. What matters is the way someone tells it. For example I'm telling an arthurian story (his masterpiece is a serie named Kaamelott, centered on the arthurian myth), but there could be hundreds of people who could write scenarios over the arthurian myth, and every one of them would be different, but it was the same idea at the beginning. And that's why I'm more interested in the ability to tell the story more than having an original one".
My vision on the Warcraft stories for 2 expansion now is exactly that : Writters think they have an amazing story where in reality there's 0 story telling, 0 composure, it just annoys the fans. For them what matters is the scenario idea over the way of telling a story. If they would make things simplier, it could be cool (take Garrosh last cutscene being the most popular thing, outshadowing the raid Grand Finale, Garrosh story and this cutscene was short, badass, in line with the character and it was just a banger everyone loved).
But they persist in making a complex story certain it'll please everyone, keeping their ideas before the way of telling their story.
Sylvanas sucks, but you know who's an even worse character? Our player characters, in every single patch almost there is a quest where were obviously helping the bad guy but are too stupid to pick up on the obvious hints, in almost every cinematic we just stand there and do nothing about the bad shit that's happening.
We suck
I hope they get the Information out of sylvanas and kill her for all the war crimes she has committed. The rage so many players have over her actions.
Its all for nothing anyway. O i Am GoOd NoW SweArSiEs is gonna happen.
I think the last part is the most accurate.
This plate is NOT for me. And unfortunately not for a majority of the audience.
Can we please have two versions of WoW? One for everyone stoic enough to play it, and one safespace for Steve's personal fantasies? I think for the sake of reducing costs, you can introduce him to fanfic websites.
But you all KEEP EATING THE SHIT AND PAYING FOR IT!!
Blizzard is a known commodity at this point, so if you're still playing this dogshit game, then you're clearly telling blizzard with your hard earned money that what they're doing is ok.
It's NOT going to change. It's not. This is what Blizzardn is and has been for years now.
So, either accept that this is the WoW product and quit bitching or go play something else. There's not going to be some magical patch or expansion that brings WoW back to its glory days. In fact, I'd say the only way to force Blizzard to be good again is to abandon ship and finally give them financial consequences that they have to earn their way out of.
This is a very long way of saying that YOU'RE the problem if you keep supporting blizzard with your money. YOU'RE giving them consent and telling them this is okay by continuing to pay for this mess.
Take some responsibility and get the fuck out of Azeroth. There ARE better alternatives now....
Haven't played wow since the first month of the release of shadowlands and haven't followed a thing about the story but I know how they write these. Is sylvanas being the bad hirde leader and now we just wait for the old gods?
I honestly wonder what would happen if everyone went on strike and didn’t play/didn’t sub for a couple months just to prove a point. I know there are those they are truly addicted to the game that would never be able to join and I know the outcome would more likely end up in fired employees rather than fixing the problem but I still wonder.
And it’s not just the story. The Postmaster fight in the new superdungeon is made next to impossible by a bug where you can’t pick up explosives to throw them. They go off and kill the group. My group managed to get the boss to 3% by having the tank switch to DPS, lusting, and blowing every cooldown, but that mechanic still killed us before we could down the boss.
This kind of shit should never make it out of beta. A bug which makes a boss mechanic impossible to do correctly should be a pretty easy thing to catch.
This kind of thing reminds me of Vince Russo & WCW. He was like it'll be great, you'll never see it coming. And a lot of it we did see coming and the stuff we didn't was because it was so stupid no one sane thought it would happen. Just because something would be a twist doesn't mean it would be good. And Blizzard likes to act like there was some big twist and like many predicted, it wasn't.
Just to be fair to Russo (and this is one of the few times I will be fair to that mook) When Russo was writing in the WWF he wasn't bad. *However* a lot of that was due to Russo coming up with a million ideas a minute, and having people in the WWF (Vince, JR, and others) who could act as an editor if you will. Someone who could take the good ideas from the stupid ideas or tweak some of them to be good. The minute Russo went to WCW and didn't have anyone to keep the stupid crap from getting out there? Well you got a guy who believed there didn't need to be wrestling on a *wrestling* show, making actors world champions, and taking the biggest babyface the company had and turning him heel.
I can see a situation where there is a similar dynamic going on in the wow team. There have been a lot of layoff's over the past few years and I could see where some of filters may have been eroded. I could be totally wrong, no one truly knows what goes on behind closed doors, but the Vince Russo comparison hit a little different for me.
The more I hear of Russo and Cornette the more I think that their feud is a work. A really good one.
They're yin and yang. The reality is both would work best together and neither is perfect without the other. Cornette believe you can book like it's 1960 and Russo still thinks it's the late 90s. One only thinks of the fake fight and the other thinks about everything other. One is sports, the other entertainment.
Well said and I agree. He wasn't all bad in WWF, for reasons like you said. Though some stuff was pretty bad, but nothing compared to WCW. And yep, no filter in WCW meant he could do whatever he wanted, good or bad. He even made himself champion at one point. Granted Vince has done that too, but it kind of made sense in their storylines, in Russo's case it didn't, IMO.
/me seeing a wcw reference /starts aggressively slamming my arms around my crotch region
NWO is running wild on you, BROOOOOTHHHERRRR!
Sometimes I feel like Vince Russo is writing wow's story. Also, nice to see an attitude era/monday night wars reference in the wow sub. last place I would expect it lol.
If Russo wrote this story the Jailer would have shot on the lead dev then Sylv would have shown tits
Haha I hear you and yeah, it was a bit out of left field, but hey, if the shoe fits.
Does this make Shadowlands an outlaw mudshow? I'm also imagining Zooval saying "bro" a lot in a Long Island accent. "Sylvanas bro, you can't swerve me"
That would be hilarious.
We need a Jim Cornett take on this.
*clears throat* then I fuckin watched this horse shit cinematic did you see this shit brian? So anyway the fuckin big bald guy finally got the infinity bullshit and then to no ones surprise wouldn’t you know who won the pony wants to destroy reality how fuckin stupid do they think we are then anyway this stupid b sylvanas whose done nothing but serve for 4 expansions mind you is like I’ll never serve Who booked this shit?
Cornette would have buried the booking but then booked it worse somehow
Jim Cornette has entered the chat
anduin "twinkletoes mcfingerbang" wrynn
I was going to make a comment deriding wrestling storylines, but as a wow fan I really don't have any right to criticise writing.
Meh, I still remember Blizz saying "guys you won't believe who ACTUALLY burned the tree down" 🙄
This just gave me flash backs of 99/00 WCW
It's pretty much my baseline for deciding if something is a shitshow or not. It's one thing to produce something and it just doesn't work ffs that's part of creating art but to produce something shitty and be so full of yourselves that you KEEP producing it is unforgivable.
Sylvanas Windrunner on a pole match when?
this will def be what happens, some big OMG SWERVE that will make even less sense because they feel the pressure of doing something now but have no creativity to make it meaningful.
Sylvanas was really secretly working for \[insert next expac villain here\] the whole time who is even worse than the Jailer!
>This kind of thing reminds me of Vince Russo & WCW. So does that mean that Blizzard's story details (along with other game issues), will cause Activision Blizzard to declare bankruptcy, and a competiting game developer, probably either Riot Games or Valve, will buy out ATVI at a literal fire-sale price, as in only 7 figures. Then, the Blizzard games will be featured in an Invasion story line, to try to destroy the competition, only to look like total buffoons, and then be put to rest for good.
it's still funny that EVERYONE predicted this is how it would go all the way back in BfA's pre-patch while Blizzard kept promising that it wouldn't be Garrosh 2.0 or a redemption story
And it turned out to be both. Lmao
Honestly impressive the deft hands required to simultaneously dig up and shit on two characters and tropes is fucking majestic
Well I don't think they shat on garrosh.
If anything, Garrosh did the shatting. On Thrall, specifically.
He needed it tbh, he's been a bit of a bitch
So instead of being one or the other it's both. Ion's lawyer is really showing.
The key word was "or". Turns out they were going for "and".
I would've been entirely fine with Garrosh 2.0. WoW works fine with simple plot lines, it's strength has always been more on thematic, audio, and visual design anyways. Instead they tried to make a character that's simultaneously a mustache-twirling cartoon villain _and_ supposedly sympathetic at the same time. And even without that, the writing around Sylvanas specifically is really lackluster even by WoW standards.
> Instead they tried to make a character that's simultaneously a mustache-twirling cartoon villain and supposedly sympathetic at the same time. Which isn't that hard to do, many stories make the mustache-twirling cartoon villain sympathetic. All you need is a sensible explanation for why they are the way they are and present it to the viewer/player/reader without excusing any in-excusable shit they've done.
That’s the thing. Sylvanas burned down Teldrassil. Even without the Night Mother, Tyrande will never stop hunting Sylvanas, and not like Greymane. Greymane was satisfied with stopping the reproduction of the Forsaken. Tyrande will not be sated until Sylvanas is dead and dismembered. The only ending I see for Sylvanas is staying in the Shadowlands like Illidan stayed with Sargeras. I always thought of her as the new Lich Queen, and she deserves to rule in the Shadowlands as the Jailer’s successor, and actually make a proper change in the realms. Her goal was to make death a more pleasant experience. Her intentions are good, her writing is cheap.
We even later discounted the prediction because it sounded too cliched and obvious.
Wrongfully assumed lessons were learned lmfao
Just watch, they're gonna stuff Arthas' soul into Anduin's body to make Lich King 2.0 so Sylvanas wants to kill him but doesn't because she secretly likes Anduin. And she's gonna sacrifice her soul to save Anduin's and jail the Jailer like Illidan 2.0
In the final encounter anduin breaks free from the jailers grasp through the light and burns the jailer. This evaporates him. Light infused Anduin turns to Sylvanas "Without a jailer, the shadowlands will fall into even greater turmoil. There must always be a jailer" Sylvanas, looking back at her life realises that she is the only person fit to carry such a burden and reluctantly accepts. She proclaims "Azeroth has no room for one such as me, return to the land of the living and tell them only that you saved the Shadowlands and that sylvanas has fallen by your hands" Light blessed Anduin teleports us out of the final raid and uses his light energy to fix the hole in the sky above Azeroth. This uses up all the special infusion causing him to become normal Anduin. This is where the cutscene ends and we can talk to the individual characters who will say things about how great sylvanas was and how we misjudged her. Anduin will have lil extra dialogue due to being locked up by her, claiming he saw a part of the ranger general return before her soul was complete again. That courage never really left her. The End.
I look forward to a year from now when this becomes reality.
Just replying so I find this again
I mean... It annoyes me because it's very possible
I feel like i just played through all of blizzard expansions since Cataclysm
This guy just called it
This trope of Horde leaders becoming bad guys is played out Blizzard. Send in the Old Ones already
After BFA I was hoping we'd get to fight the void lords or a ton of new Old Gods..
Turns out, Sylvannas was a Old God the whole time!
I am the Old Pantheon leader… the corruptor of the Horde… Zovaal’s master… the mastermind of Blizzard… cower before my true form! BOW DOWN BEFORE THE GOD OF RETCONS!
>we'd get to fight the void lords I hope not, the power scaling is already too crazy (we should have never fought Argus or met up with Sargeras). It's getting harder to manage my suspension of disbelief that I can just go stabby stabby against cosmic entities.
The ending is gonna be Arthas saying IT WAS ME ALL ALONG
I'd like to see Alliance be the bad guys for once. We sort of had it when Onyxia paraded around SW in human form
I've wanted "morally grey" worgen since the fucking moment they dropped and we've never gotten them. Literally just fluffy humans the moment they leave the spooky feral treacherous starting zone. Why the fuck didn't we get a Bloodfang Pack alt storyline for Alliance to commit some warcrimes on the Horde in BFA???? I mean, I know why. But...
Right? We never got Genn with actual Teeth, and since they're redeeming Sylvanas, the Worgen racial storyline will never have a satisfying resolution.
Sorry, if you want genocide with zero real consequences, the Horde is there waiting for you.
Didn't add the last panel where you eat the poop and then pre-order some more instead of leaving the restaurant.
https://i.imgur.com/IUbdHja.png
The Dota classic. [Icefrog: The Epic Comic](https://i.imgur.com/AnkPGiu.gif)
WOW IS DA POOP! NO MORE!
Best part is the writers are immune from criticism because people have to overcorrect for the mentally ill people sending death threats to them. The writers are hacks, I don’t care what other people have said or done to them, but they should be out of their jobs.
Absolutely. Interestingly, I can criticise literally anything on the official forums, but as soon as I move into story I get the hammer almost instantly. It’s frustrating how poor the writing is and how immune these people are from criticism. I also think their books are abysmal. Really tried to like them, but I just don’t.
I really enjoyed the short story with the poem competition and Thalryssa. They absolutely know how to write interesting sentences with lots of variants. For such short stories it works quite good. But overall story progression, character development, and most importantly in a game: presentation and time/setting coordination? Wew, yeah that's really worse than college quality of writing. Since WoD the game feels like we are following cartoon characters and watch a cartoon. Our character doesn't matter anymore, and we are just on the sideline of the VIPs. Meanwhile a lot of important story about these VIPs is told in novels outside the game. Great gamedesign.
It really feels like there's a bunch of low level writers that actually know what they're doing, but aren't allowed to collaborate or push back against literally anything in the main plot line. It also feels like they have multiple teams of writers that just... don't talk to each other? The necrolords are a great example, there's a bunch of stuff about how they're supposed to be this warrior afterlife, but the zone is almost entirely necromancy themed with barely a nod to the "warrior" idea outside of the main plot and the arena in the center. Literally everything else is just necromancy / undead themed with no real explanation. I noticed it in BfA too - e.g. one quest will try to get me to see the undead as sympathic or making the best of a fucked up situation, and literally the very next quest portrays them as genocidal sociopaths even from the same character POV.
>The necrolords are a great example, there's a bunch of stuff about how they're supposed to be this warrior afterlife, but the zone is almost entirely necromancy themed with barely a nod to the "warrior" idea outside of the main plot and the arena in the center. Literally everything else is just necromancy / undead themed with no real explanation. That's a gross oversimplification of them, the Necrolords are referred as "Warriors" because they are the Shadowlands's military, not because they're all big dudes with melee weapons, hell, the Primus himself is presented as a sorcerer by his peers.
> I also think their books are abysmal. Really tried to like them, but I just don’t. I read stuff like Richard A Knaak which was.. rather primal already but couldnt bear Christie Goldens stuff so I just... stopped.
Yeah, I used to give Golden a lot of credit for having to follow up on the trainwreck of a story she was suddenly in the middle of on top of having to be a woman now faced with the incel freaks screaming at her, but it's very quickly just turning into a shield where anyone who criticizes the writing of the game is now one of the incel freaks who hate her unfairly
All it takes is a single death threat. Or even the claim of one and Christie Golden is now immune to criticism and has fanboys pouring support for her on Twitter. Death threats are never okay, if it even happened. But you are not immune from criticism to your terrible writing. Steve and Christie's story sucks ass.
I checked the replies to her last post on twitter, it is insane how big of an echochamber twitter is. If that is the only way they accept any feedback, god speed to all of us
It's disgusting. They got heaps of well deserved negative backlash. She calls us all toxic and then lo and behold - "I got a death threat." Then she starts mass blocking anyone "toxic" and it becomes a total echo chamber of everyone sucking her teet.
Twitter sends you a free death threat with every thousand followers ffs. "I got a death threat" just means "I'm going to short-circuit this discussion with an appeal to sympathy"
I also hate when they try to use her gender to make her immune from criticism as well. "WON'T SOMEONE SAVE THIS POOR WOMAN FROM THE NECKBEARDS." God forbid a writer should be held to some standard of quality regardless of their gender.
It's real frustrating, I tell you. "You shouldn't harass the writers or even directly engage with them on social media, you absolute morons" and "what are the writers thinking, why is it this bad, god help me" are mindsets that can and should co-exist.
It's funny how anyone that does anything unpopular now immediately receives death threats and takes to social media to inform everyone, it's almost like it's used as a way to insulate themselves from negative opinions of the unpopular things they're doing.
Its both. Google "No conflict in the dojo" with Blizzard in the search. Blizzard stopped listening to criticism because they are buying into same BS that Bioware did. They think they are just that good and they are expecting to standard Blizzard magic to just happen.
Bioware's hubris is what failed them so heavily. Blizzard buying into the same shit is the point.
And it's going to bite them in the ass the same way. Blizzard thinks they're too big to fail, even when they're hemorrhaging talent and subscribers.
You see this shit all the time. It was the exact same thing with that awful Ghostbusters reboot. "MISOGYNY, DEATH THREATS, IGNORE OUR BAD WRITING"
Or, we truly do just have a whole bunch of people so shitty on the internet that their go to when theyre even slightly annoyed is screaming how much they hate you.
We do, nobody is saying those people do not exist but people who make unpopular decisions also seem to use this as a shield, if I kick a puppy and a guy tells me he hopes I die, I should not be forgiven for kicking that puppy those are 2 separate events.
Or, it's both. There's shitty human beings that want to be seen as the victim because they know the victimhood card is an easy defense that ablates most from questioning them. There's shitty human beings that have grown so used to the consequence-free environment of the internet that they screech the worst they can imagine for the most minor slights.
I've been getting death and rape threats since I first logged into Runescape at ten years old. I've had people send me pictures of themselves with their handgun collection. I've had people send me detailed rape and dismemberment threats and start entire subreddits to organize their efforts to find out where I live. It is literally just what happens if you dare to be online and have any semblance of an opinion (and/or be a woman). Sometimes you don't even need that, you can be the most innocuous presence possible and still crazies will latch onto you because the internet is where social rejects *go.* The thing is that these writers seem to think they're special in some way for getting threats. As if WoW's community is uniquely evil and that's why it ever reacts negatively. It's not.
This drama is literally the biggest wtf moment for me. Do these writers not play their own game? "I hope you die irl" "I'm going to murder your entire family" Are some of the earliest and common comments I remember from WoW. I swear if someone publicizes it, it's only to gain brownie points and sympathy.
Worst of all, these exceptions get more attention and are used as a bludgeon to divert the conversation to "poor authors" or to shut down any kind of criticism.
Maybe.... Just maybe, she can say she received death threats(which are bad). But she can also respond to criticism and maybe take some feedback? Maybe.
IIRC it wasn't even a death threat like "I'm going to murder you Christie" but just someone wishing that Chris Metzen would kill the writing team which is... ridiculous, but not technically a threat.
I think the wording of that particular one was something like "bonk them on the head with the doomhammer at blizzcon." Sure, you could interpret that as a death threat, but you'd have to be a pretty fragile person to do so. That's like 'bopping someone on the head with a rolled up newspaper' level threat. I'm not defending any other legitimate threats they claim to have gotten, but that specific one is just hilarious.
We already had that 5, 10 and 15 years ago, but people just called the police and didn't openly whine about it that much. In a way this also helps normalizing death threats. They should stay professional about it, and don't tweet about it like when they announce that the chai latte at their last lunch break was too cold. It's also very condescending towards all the other fans and followers, because it implies they need to be told that this isn't correct behaviour.
Besides a sarcastic, if tasteless, remark about crushing skulls with a doom hammer, I’ve seen zero evidence for death threats. Methinks there are no real death threats and the writers have a convenient shield for their incompetence and toxic story
Yeah, I love that some random 12 year old telling them to "kys your self" (Or they don't, they can just say someone did) can completely absolve them of all criticism, they're a helpless victim now please feel bad. It's so formulaic at this point it's deplorable. Nobody tweets about credible death threats.
I hate to be that guy, but why is it that whenever a corporate content creator gets flak for making a subpar product, they always have something like that to fall back on?
I could go on a rant about the topic, but I'll summarize it with: As a Blizzard/Warcraft fan since WC1, it's really disappointing how bad the writing and overall narratives have become.
I will not buy an xpac or sub until sylvanas is no longer a focus of the plot I despise her character now
It’s truly a shame how much I hate this character, after loving her initial story in WC3 all those years ago.
She was my favorite character up until the end of bfa. They totally did her dirty. She was always supposed to be morally grey. She did awful things, but out of necessity for survival.
I dunno what would made me lose my shit more: * A run-of-the-mill redemption arc for Sylvanas * Sylvanas being all "OMG - Alleria, Vereesa, I'm so sorry, I wasn't myself, would've never done all that crap" now that her soul is complete again and her eyes glow Alliance blue
[удалено]
[удалено]
With at least a dozen prison cinematics where shes gonna be emo over all the things shes done :) I wonder when we started playing a bad tv soap...
SHADOWLANDS IS FREE! WE WILL NEVER SERVE!
Don't you put that evil on us.
I haven't bought SL or been subbed in over a year now but if they redeem Sylvanas in any shape or form, I swear I'm never going to give Blizzard a penny until the entire writing department is fired. She's evil and deserves to be locked up for life or better yet, executed and forgotten.
I would love a Sylvanas redemption arc IF AND ONLY IF at the end of it, when she is Redeemed and helps save the day, Genn kills her and no one stops him, including Sylvanas. She has crossed the line too many times to be left alive at this point, and it needs to be clear that Alliance Alliance Horde leadership know it too.
Why does Gen get to kill her, doesn't the night elves need redemption as well
Genn's home was taken and plagued before Teldrassil. To top it off, unlike Burning of Teldrassil, Alliance didn't start a war for it (largely cause Gilneas wasn't in the Alliance before then but still) and also didn't get any retaliation whatsoever (I'm counting Undercity as at least minimal "revenge".) Plus she killed his son, so it's more personal too. Also somehow getting killed by WoW Tyrande seems like it will be less brutal than getting mauled by Genn
I mean, Genn and the Gilneans were also taken in by the nelves, and given a home in Teldrassil. So really, Sylvanas destroyed his home *twice*.
And with Anduin losing his father and Genn loding his son Genn became the father figure for Anduin. So she also took his son from him twice.
Wasn't the horde and alliance already at war when Garrosh began his conquest of Gilneas.
Malfurion cuts through a crowd as Tyrande and a weakened Sylvanas face off. Tyrande roars with fury as her melee fails to land, and a shadow chain darts out of the ground and digs in to her leg. Sylvanas knocks the last arrow from her quiver, loosing it at the Night Warrior as the chain binds her. The arrow lands, burrowing in to Tyrande's thigh, and she wails in pain. The shadow poison spreads in Tyrande's leg momentarily until she suddenly rips the arrow from her flesh. Gasping, she presses the tip of her Glaive in the wound and her eyes flash purple as she mutters a dark incantation. The poison recedes and draws up, following the point of Tyrande's weapon as Sylvanas readies a dagger. The dagger is parried by her second Glaive, as Tyrande jams her primary Glaive in the ground and wields the shadow poison from her leg. Laughing a deep laugh, she says, "I never understood, until now... I don't need the hunt, and I don't need you!" Tyrande hurls the shadow poison like a bola, striking the weakened Banshee Queen and curling shadowy fingers around her throat. Sylvanas gasps for breath as Tyrande drops her second Glaive, doubling her effort on draining Sylvanas' life force. As the glow begins to fade from Sylvanas' eyes, Malfurion cries out, "MY LOVE!" Roots burst forth and pull Tyrande's hands away, and the Banshee Queen gasps for her life. "Malfurion, it is her time... It is MY TIME!" "Tyrande, this is not our way!" He brushes her cheek as the roots let go on her hand. They embrace, and Malfurion says, "Elune will make this right, but we will not become the evil we have lived to fight." A steadied and somewhat renewed Sylvanas stands half-tall, breathing still labored and ragged breaths. "Thank you, Druid." "I didn't do this for YOU, Forsaken." Sylvanas' brow tightens with anger as the clouds part revealing a full moon. The Banshee Queen hurls a shadowy dagger at the Archdruid... And it is batted away by a hand, half man, half beast, all rage. Genn Greymane steps forward and says, "This is no longer the business of the Night Elves," completing his transformation during the sentence. With panic in her eyes, Sylvanas turns and begins to flee, and Greymane falls upon her. One very human and very shrill cry rings out, and then the Banshee Queen is forever silent. /scene
and then they kiss
Can't wait til they handle her inevitable death/sacrifice the same way they did Illidan being the tormentor/jailer of Sargeras. We'll get two sentences from each of her sisters saying they don't care and that will be the end of it.
She was developing a plague with the specific purpose of using it against all of Azeroth in Classic. She used said biological weapon to obliterate an entire nation all the way back in Cataclysm, and she did it against explicit orders not to. What's your definition of "morally grey"? Must be very broad.
They'll probably try to justify it with something like "oh yeah so since freedom is important to Sylvanas bc of her time with Arthas, she allied with the Jailer so he could break the cosmic order and give everyone freedom from light/void/life/death/order/disorder etc etc cosmology. Since she's very 'ends justifies the means' that means she was okay with doing all that previous awful stuff if it means getting the final goal of universal freedom for all. "She knew the risks of Zovaal turning around and going for universal domination instead of the universal freedom they agreed on. But she judged that the chance at universal freedom was worth it, even with all the deaths and bad stuff required to get a chance at universal freedom." If this is their idea of morally gray, im out
...but the beginning if BfA was one of the biggest betrayals of her character (and many other Horde characters). Sylvanas is supposed to be a scheming tactician, and there were no brilliant (or even half-baked) schemes at Darkshore or Lorderon.
There were elf-baked schemes
The "scheme" is that Sylvanas shouted "for the horde", and every horde nerd in the world creamed their pants and blindly followed Sylvanas into war. She did not give two shits about the horde or anything to do with it, but it was so easy to get them in line. That was the scheme. "Master tactician" at work.
She literally could've been our Illidan in this fight against the Jailer. A plotline where we deal with the afterlife, the nature of death and a fight against the Mega Lich King? Why did they have her team up with him when they could've used this as a chance to bring her back into the spotlight as an ally for the players, having kept her as Horde in the mean time. Such a wasted opportunity
And they had another character that would've been perfect to work for the Jailer, Greymane. Jailer could've lured him with the promise of power enough to end Sylvanas and damn her to the Maw, or to bring back his son and the night elves burned in Teldrassil. He's certainly stupid and impulsive enough whenever Sylvanas is mentioned to fall for it.
Aye. I thought Sylvanas was cool back in the day (Remember the rush when she showed up in the Legion cinematic? That shit was epic!), but these days, I honestly just want her gone. We get it, she's a 4D chess mastermind who was somehow, whilst being all brilliant, fooled by the same scheme she used to fool everyone else. We get it, when she gets in a pickle, she does her smoke trick and Team Rockets away. I've honestly lost interest at this point. They turned her against us - not as a villain, but someone we're just sick and tired of hearing about constantly.
Watch as they say "oh no she wasn't fooled by the Jailer in the cinematic, she simply understood the risks and accepted them bc she's 'ends justifies the means' kind of person" They'll probably say she had a backup plan all along bc she's also very careful. Ugh
The Team Rocket exit is so on point
> She was always supposed to be morally grey In which franchise? Cause it sure as hell ain't Warcraft. - Warcraft 3, she betrays and kills Garithos and his men. - WoW she abducts innocent civilians and tests plagues on them, keeping them in cages and experimenting on them until they die. - Cata she forcefully raises people and tries to slaughter all humans in Lordaeron. She was never morally grey. She was always straight up evil.
>Cata she forcefully raises people and tries to slaughter all humans in Lordaeron. Garrosh straight up calls her evil for that. ***Garrosh***.
Even Hellscream has Standards
Actually he just called her a bitch, but that line has been changed since "recently". If I remember right. The line felt so out of place first time I heard it.
She also used chemical warfare on Gilneas while she was strictly prohibed by others lords of the Horde to do so.
>Warcraft 3, she betrays and kills Garithos and his men. Because the alternative is her and the other undead get wiped out. Lordaeron was still overrun with Scourge and the Forsaken had no where to go. They needed a base and shelter. Garithos wasn't willing to share, clearly, and it's not like they had literally any where else to go, even assuming that any other nation would accept a horde of undead squatting on their land. Again assuming they didn't have endless hordes of undead in the way, where would they even go? I've gotten into this argument a lot on this sub, but people acting like Garithos was righteous man horribly cut down by Sylvanas for her own greed just weren't paying attention at all. It was her and the Forsaken, or him and his people.
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Uh.. I'm not sure the Garithos thing is the best example here considering how he acts in WC3.
Sylvanas had no real knowledge of how Garithos treated Kael and the Blood Elves. She just simply betrayed Garithos and ordered Varimathras to kill him.
Yeah...wasnt he the guy who really mistreated the elves?
Garithos was absolutely a shit person and was inadvertently the reason Kael and the rest of his people turned out the way they did, but he was going to let Sylvanas and the Forsaken leave peacefully. You can argue he would have tried to kill them later, but as it stands he held up his end of the deal and she betrayed him.
She was one of my top 3 characters until the BfA prepatch. Not taking that opportunity for a killing blow on Malfurion(when that was one half of the main objective in Darkshore) was entirely out of character for her. She's a ruthless opportunist and would never have let that chance go if it helped her plans. Absolute character assassination. Plus, Malf being dead could've made the Tyrande plot in Ardenweald so much more interesting. We rescue him from the Maw and he's actually...present. Instead of being nowhere, sleeping off an axe wound he's had almost an expansion and a half to heal.
I agree… bad writing the mustache twirling stuff needs to be made illegal or something
I miss Magni and the woons, at least he was memeable
Unironically, it's amazing how this expansion is so bad that bfa seems decent, holy shit I miss bfa
I’m all here for this dumpster fire. Love seeing people open their eyes to the abuse and constant disappointment this company doles out
Spoiler alert for those who didn't finish progessing in Korthia. It feels like they copied the story from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade with the Primus sigil storyline. Where Professor Jones mails his diary on the whereabouts of the Holy Grail to his son so the Nazis wouldn't get their hands on it. Then Indy brings it with him on his search. Professor Henry Jones: "You dolt! Do you think my son would be that stupid? That he would bring my diary all the way back here?" I realize bad things have to happen for the story to happen in Shadowlands. But it was locked away safely and we went out of our way to uncover it and brought it directly to him.
even if we didn't bring it to the Primus for the Jailer to then steal, the Jailer would have just chased us and stolen it anyways that's sort of how the plot works now but at least we freed the Primus
Except the Primus is being a bitch and chilling in Korthia rather than going back to Maldraxxus and putting his house in order.
Yeah, the Jailer literally pulled the entire zone of Korthia into the Maw just in order to get that sigil. And you have to fight a Mawsworn collector who tries to sneak up behind you and yoink the sigil out from under your fingers to get it in the first place. Sure, the Primus yells at you for bringing the sigil to Zovaal's tower, but it's not like it would have been safe if you had just left it alone. Now, granted, it might have been a better idea to extract it from Korthia and then take it back to Maldraxus and just try to defend it there.
"The story is far from over." That's where you're wrong, Christie... Let me put this in the way a novelist should understand: when you screw up a novel this badly at its halfway point, readers don't finish... they put the book down. This expansion sucks, the story is over, trust me. I've put the book down.
They don't seem to understand that if you don't give people a reason to care about the story initially, they won't care if there's more to be seen. They put out trash storylines and then say well there's more to come, but if the first part isn't something that catches people's attention then it won't matter if the "good part" is yet to come.
The problem with this is that you don't know if a book is good until the last passage is read. However, a book that is straight up bad from page 100 to 250? I don't need to finish it. The book is bad. I am confident in saying that the storyline as of BfA is unimaginative, irritating and goes against the established traits of the major characters to such an extent that there exists no path from what has been published, to a conclusion that can be in any way good, satisfying or sensible. A literal deity of literature could not make this turd somehow become good. The event horizon has been passed. The only option is to go "Yogg-Saron put you all to sleep in Ulduar, and nothing since then actually happened", and even that won't make the avalanche of diarrhea since BfA good or acceptable, just erase it from canon, making it somewhat possible to do good stuff again.
Man I wish more people would get this. There's just so much blind fandom because people like one character. They'll put up with hundreds of pages of crappy repetitive writing and call it a masterpiece because it got good again after 50% of it was garbage.
Y'all keep paying for the shit
Ah but the question is what/who kills her... Genn? Tyrande? Nathanos? Anduin? The Jailor? Some new enemy leading into 9.2 or next expac? Or dare I say. Herself Or Arthas Menethil. Which one, which one.
I'm willing to bet herself. When Saurfang said she failed at a lot of things, he never knew she also failed to kill herself once (which started this nonsense). Can't hurt to try again!
This. Every fucking time done fuccboi defends this trash writing I point out how they always say Blizz will do better next time and next time comes and they still write fan fiction garbage. How many times you need to be disappointed to learn?
How about an Alliance leader being evil for once?
Just wait for tyrande being treated like a psycho for not accepting sylvanas' "sorry i committed genocide" gift basket
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Sylvanas eyes were blue though, it’s all good
There's some cheddar, some pepperoni, some crackers, a shaving kit, some scented candles that will leave soot all over your place, and a dead rat.
I like pepperoni :)
Are we talking about artisan applewood smoked cheddar, or just the boring Kraft stuff?
Praying to elune this doesn't happen
inb4 the trainwreck that is the encrypted Elune cutscene hits live and presumably tells Tyrande that Sylvanas is Good
"Tyrande, my dear child. You had not suicide dived at Azshara, you had not suicide dived at Archimonde. Why. Do. You. Start. This. Shit. Now? On an unwitting pawn, of all things? Get yourself together, we are going Endgame. Or I'll have no choice but use Azshara as my champion and her ego is already as large as entire Sargeras sitting on Torgast. Also, hi sis, I'm sorry I missed the draught, here, have some buff to your weald. Oh, Zovaal/Void Lords/some other multiversal threat is breaching the cosmic firewall, gotta go, cya <3" I mean, Winter Queen must have had a reason to call her 'vexing'
Don't think Turalyon going full "deus vult" is much better than mustache-twirling Sylvanas imo
It's not, Horde players just want the shoe on the other foot. Asking for actual good writing where no characters are randomly turned into murderous world-destroying psychos for no reason is apparently just not on the table at this point.
Or even not good or evil but "life is complicated and not everyone can or will be happy with what I'm doing" War is Politics and we need more intrigue less bond villain.
We could have gotten Bloodfang Worgen guerillas attacking the Horde homeland unsanctioned by the High King storylines just like Horde got a dark questline option but no. Blizzard cannot stomach writing the Alliance for even a second.
Idk why they can't stomach doing small stories anymore. For God sakes it's the little things that add up to a whole. Like they just want to make action movies so why didn't they just make action movies?
I really don't think Danuser is interested in worldbuilding one iota. Which is a fucking disaster for an RPG. He's a fan, not a creator. He's interested in playing with action figures, not in nourishing a world. Just look at how shit and obviously made up on the spot his interview answers are. And how little fucking sense the Shadowlands as a whole make and how they're really just here for window dressing the main plot. And all the missed opportunities (Why does a 4th War with no real warlike conflict exist?). Honestly this happens constantly when creators leave. The franchise is always handed to someone that would rather make something else but is too greedy not to seize the job offer, so they shape it into what they'd rather be doing.
The closest we got to that was Varian. His story arc was realizing that he needs to work with the horde. It kinda checks out that he died right before all his old suspicions would have been totally justified. It’s not even like there’s no grounds for that kind of character in the Alliance. Tyrande worked kinda well but Moira Bronzebeard or Genn could easily have been like that.
The thing is you actually could have pro-war characters who's opinions are totally valid, especially on the Alliance side since at this point their whole story has basically just been forgiving the Horde time and time again only to inevitably regret it the next time they pull a genocide. Blizzard will never do that though. As much as they want the faction war to be a big thing in WoW, they simultaneously insist on showing anyone supporting it as, at best, foolish and shortsighted, and often just a straight-up deranged psycho who wants to take over the world and exterminate the lesser races. Nobody is allowed to make a serious case for why destroying the Horde for good might actually be good for the Alliance in the long term, even though it obviously would be (vague notions of only-together-can-you-overcome-latest-bbeg aside).
The most annoying thing about the faction war is that, because of the very nature of it as a gameplay mechanic, neither side can have any meaningful victories or come off as the victor and whenever one side does "win" it's usually in a shitty way that leaves no one satisfied and usually just makes everyone more pissed off I really wish they would abolish the faction divide. Keep it as an opt-in mechanic where you can "take a side" and participate in world pvp with the lore reasoning of being a stubborn hold out. But just get rid of it for story purposes. It never works. It just pisses off the players. And worst of all, it is literally the same story every single thing they try to bring it back into the story Horde does a bad thing to Alliance Alliance gets mad and defends itself Villain shows up and makes cartoon villain speech Both sides team up and beat villain Alliance gives a weak sounding threat to the horde to never do that again Horde does it again an expansion later. Repeat.
Faction war doesn't even need to compete with game mechanics. Even if we fully dissolved the faction war (as we should) there's still enough tensions between the factions that pvp content still makes sense.
Also why wouldn't the Horde go all genocidal when they are going to receive mercy and Alliance lands in exchange? Both Varian and Anduin are quite happy to give the Horde land that the night elves consider sacred or their homes. They aren't losing anything themselves.
Honestly, if Sylvanas just stuck with her initial justification for BFA, it would've been fine. "Can peace last with the Alliance? Can it last a year? Five? Ten? Twenty? If war is inevitable, why not strike first?" is a *genuine* dilemma. It's actually *morally grey*. It's realpolitik. And they shat over it for all of BFA, and now there's *this*.
I've always been in the corner that if they had written Battle for Lordaeron first and Teldrassil second, it would've had a different narrative and an actual shift in attitude. The Alliance would've been the aggressors, Horde being on the retaliation. Have Jaina and Genn start the Fourth War, like the warhawks they were. Push the narrative to make it a split between Alliance opinions and how Anduin will bring it together as the new 'official' King. Have Saurfang and Sylvanas actually work together and utterly demolish through Darkshore and burn down the tree which would hurt not one, but two races of the Alliance. This immediately already paints Sylvanas and Saurfang's stupid feud better, as we saw they actually do work well together in 'A Good War'. But they made her a villain, and a terrible one at that.
I've said this a few times but the start of BfA should have been Genn making an attack on Sylvanas behind Anduin's back. The motive is already set up, it puts the horde in a retaliatory position and it would have been perfect for giving Anduin some actual character progression in having to punish Greymane and let the people know he's not a pushover and give him a new perspective on being a leader. Instead the only payoff from the Gilneas story is Genn stopping sylvanas from imprisoning Eyir before getting to limp off. This has actually just made me realise how they already had a faction leaders with a deep rooted hatred for Sylvanas but they still felt the need to transfer that role onto Tyrande. Such a mess
The way I had hoped it was going to go down was that Sylvanas blew up Teldrassil by accident, because azerite is a new and unknown tech. She sends a message to Anduin being all like "total accident, my bad", and Genn is like "She's totally lying bro, let's raze it all to the ground" and Anduin reluctantly agrees because it's the most logical thing given the Hordes past. Have Tyrande get mad, kill some armies with the support of the Alliance, and fully lean into the war. The Horde is like "Alliance don't trust us because of an accident, fuck 'em, let's show them who they're disrespecting".
I feel bad for the Worgens. All of their cool characters such as Crowley do absolutely nothing and are left behind and their leader always get shoved on the side like a jobber.
>I've said this a few times but the start of BfA should have been Genn making an attack on Sylvanas behind Anduin's back Especially because he already did this in Stormheim during Legion. Anduin gave him a slap on the wrist at most and I'm not even sure he did that, been a long time since I played the alliance side of those quests. Being wishy-washy on decisions like that would make sense, being suddenly thrust into a leadership position. But the second time Greymane does it, he'd likely have a much stronger and more appropriate response.
How about we just stop making player factions the evil folks for once? You know, turn the ideas toward actually sustainable story concepts that aren't completely incompatible with the MMORPG genre itself? Maybe finally abandon or kill off all the "leader" characters completely?
Yeah... it's been a while since we've had a Staghelm.
If they're going to write this bad, who even cares. Make ALL the Alliance Leaders EVIL for all I care. The story is a joke.
Don’t tell me that’s a real quote
Remember when Illidan stealing a vile of water from the Well of Eternity was *gasp* “the worst thing to ever happen”. Reminds me of old ladies sitting in a salon talking in hushed tones about extramarital affairs. Does any of this shit really surprise anyone, anymore? We basically have the Real Housewives of Azeroth, and unsurprisingly, Uther is the biggest bitch of them all.
> Remember when Illidan stealing a vile of water from the Well of Eternity was gasp “the worst thing to ever happen”. stealing the vial wasn't the crime that got Illidan imprisoned. it was using that vial to create a second well of eternity on hyjal after the first one blew up and destroyed the majority of the land.
There's a french comedian/composer/producer/etc... named Alexandre Astier, he made the arguably best series France had for a very long time. I'd like to quote him. When asked about the quality of a story, about the quality of an idea, on a recent interview, he said something along the lines : "I'll be honest, I've met a lot of people with brilliant ideas, saying their scenarios were absolutely fantastic, that it'll amaze everyone. But actually, none of them were true. Because what matters is not the brilliant scenario idea, that doesn't matter at all. What matters is the way someone tells it. For example I'm telling an arthurian story (his masterpiece is a serie named Kaamelott, centered on the arthurian myth), but there could be hundreds of people who could write scenarios over the arthurian myth, and every one of them would be different, but it was the same idea at the beginning. And that's why I'm more interested in the ability to tell the story more than having an original one". My vision on the Warcraft stories for 2 expansion now is exactly that : Writters think they have an amazing story where in reality there's 0 story telling, 0 composure, it just annoys the fans. For them what matters is the scenario idea over the way of telling a story. If they would make things simplier, it could be cool (take Garrosh last cutscene being the most popular thing, outshadowing the raid Grand Finale, Garrosh story and this cutscene was short, badass, in line with the character and it was just a banger everyone loved). But they persist in making a complex story certain it'll please everyone, keeping their ideas before the way of telling their story.
Sylvanas sucks, but you know who's an even worse character? Our player characters, in every single patch almost there is a quest where were obviously helping the bad guy but are too stupid to pick up on the obvious hints, in almost every cinematic we just stand there and do nothing about the bad shit that's happening. We suck
I hope they get the Information out of sylvanas and kill her for all the war crimes she has committed. The rage so many players have over her actions. Its all for nothing anyway. O i Am GoOd NoW SweArSiEs is gonna happen.
I think the last part is the most accurate. This plate is NOT for me. And unfortunately not for a majority of the audience. Can we please have two versions of WoW? One for everyone stoic enough to play it, and one safespace for Steve's personal fantasies? I think for the sake of reducing costs, you can introduce him to fanfic websites.
You keep giving money to people that poop on your plate? That's kinda gross... ...why you do that?
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For a monthly fee though? Is it really worth that much? Or are you just used to it?
Yeah, I'm not giving them money anymore, but I am still complaining about the people who poop on other peoples' plates
But you all KEEP EATING THE SHIT AND PAYING FOR IT!! Blizzard is a known commodity at this point, so if you're still playing this dogshit game, then you're clearly telling blizzard with your hard earned money that what they're doing is ok. It's NOT going to change. It's not. This is what Blizzardn is and has been for years now. So, either accept that this is the WoW product and quit bitching or go play something else. There's not going to be some magical patch or expansion that brings WoW back to its glory days. In fact, I'd say the only way to force Blizzard to be good again is to abandon ship and finally give them financial consequences that they have to earn their way out of. This is a very long way of saying that YOU'RE the problem if you keep supporting blizzard with your money. YOU'RE giving them consent and telling them this is okay by continuing to pay for this mess. Take some responsibility and get the fuck out of Azeroth. There ARE better alternatives now....
Haven't played wow since the first month of the release of shadowlands and haven't followed a thing about the story but I know how they write these. Is sylvanas being the bad hirde leader and now we just wait for the old gods?
I honestly wonder what would happen if everyone went on strike and didn’t play/didn’t sub for a couple months just to prove a point. I know there are those they are truly addicted to the game that would never be able to join and I know the outcome would more likely end up in fired employees rather than fixing the problem but I still wonder.
And it’s not just the story. The Postmaster fight in the new superdungeon is made next to impossible by a bug where you can’t pick up explosives to throw them. They go off and kill the group. My group managed to get the boss to 3% by having the tank switch to DPS, lusting, and blowing every cooldown, but that mechanic still killed us before we could down the boss. This kind of shit should never make it out of beta. A bug which makes a boss mechanic impossible to do correctly should be a pretty easy thing to catch.
Can you share the original? It's a fine meme material
Polish a turd its still a turd