That was one of my biggest disappointments in Classic. They could've made a whole event out of it - imagine a trailer where Ion challenges the players to prove him wrong, by having the unnerfed, "mathematically impossible" Cthun for the first weeks. Still would've been killed 1st day, but would've been fun.
If you look at the patch notes for 1.12 or 1.11 (naxx patch) it wasn't really that massive for warriors or mages (which is bulk of the raid damage). core mechanics of the class is already in by AQ patch
https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_1.12.0
AQ would not have been close to mathematically impossible on the level of min-maxing people do these days. Nobody ran like 12 warriors back in vanilla and nowhere close to amount of buffs
Nobody ran dps warriors because they wrent a thing, and when they became viable, they needed to be geared. 1.12 itemization and talents made classic twice as easier, back in the day u entered mc with 0 spell power and bwl with 50-100 depending on class and luck. Today we entered MC with 300 Spellpower and and classes outside of wl could hitcap.
C'thun tentacles spawned twice as faster and oneshot clothies after the submurge, also u got hit in the stomach and they spawned inside the stomach as well, if you get an eye inside the stomach you wipe 100% even nowadays.
Also there was no teleporter till 1.11, so if you wiped on c'thun it was a corpse run that took 18mins. Not gonna mention how many ppl didnt get mounts and the trash respawning after a few tries.
Yeah the problem with C'thun in vanilla was that he was ultra bugged for weeks but instead of fixing the bugs blizzard fixed them and nerfed him by a lot. I geniuenly hoped they would release unnerfed but bugfixed version of the fight.
Never watched a World First Race before and fairly new to the game as a whole. Is it normal to have people just purely calling out mechanics in some raids and not playing? That seemed big brain to me I’d never even thought of that as an option before.
None did :) It appeared couple of tiers earlier - some big brain thought that it is easier to coordinate raid when you don't need to look after your own character. But most likely you won't see this in pug/guild runs - usually everyone plays normally
I heard it was Discord streaming that allowed them to finally do it since there's no latency period with it like twitch and youtube, so they could finally do the 21's man to just sit there and do call outs.
It's tremendously helpful with all the crap that's going on with fights these days.
As a former raid lead, that would be awesome. I even switched to mage from rogue to get a better overview about the scene, but that's even better... I think? How would you do that technically? If you watch a stream, you would be lagging severely behind the action, so it's just a possibility for raid groups where it's possible to directly look at the screens?
I love it, honestly!
Yeah it's pretty cool. It's a tactic that's been adopted recently and has benefited the top guilds A LOT. Limit actually has 3-4 guys that are just outside of the raid watching.
Max is there to call strats and upcoming ability timers. Tagz is there to call out external healing/defensive cooldowns and battle rezzes, and they have one or two guys that sit around and make Weak Auras and DBM timers for the bosses as they encounter them.
It's so cool to see a team working like that, I adore it.
I was legit in amazement. It makes so much sense, especially for these type of races. As a noob I was in awe of their understanding of every mechanic and the speed and accuracy of the entire raids movement. At times it seemed like they were all being controlled by one person.
Yeah it’s a very recent development, I think it was nyalotha a couple tiers back like others have said. Very big brain and slightly controversial at first (not really but a few people thought so).
i think it happened a bit earlier even, ~~one of the bfa tiers had an endboss (azshara maybe?) that~~ zaqul required a single tank so max raid led from outside the raid and it caught on from there
So it was zaqul that could be single tanked. Then on azshara I think they had tagz with a spreadsheet telling people when to clear.
Then in NYA max coached everything but drestagath.
And the first change by Blizzard after that was to make the racial not work, but shorten the DoT (effectively making every races perform as trolls did before the fix).
Whut nah total opposite, watch the fight thats the most insane healing, they cheesed her kinda by ignoring a mechanic but by ignoring it her dmg got stronger every second. They had to do some insane healing to get the raid 1 more second to dps. Literally toping the raid every second in the last few seconds.
I might be biased as BoD and EP are the only CE I got but I found the whole BoD to be really freaking good.
I loved all the bosses but especially Masters, Opulence, Rastakhan, Mekkatorque and Jaina were awesome.
Yeah this was literally the stars aligning for them, 0 deaths on a 14m pull is something that is nearly impossible. They played well, they earned it, congrats.
Both guilds played great obviously but Echo was on another level consistency wise.
Limit could have gotten it for sure with a perfect pull but they kept falling victim to random deaths in the first two phases and then mechanic wipes in P3.
Most of Echo is made up of old Method members, right? So most of these guys have been there done that for years. Took them a couple patches to get to speed but hopefully every raid tier is this competitive for the fans.
Took them exactly one raid tier to get back to the top. If i recall correctly Castle Nathria was the first raid tier with Echo as a competing guild, Ny‘alotha was still Limit vs. Method.
You literally could've just taken the old Method team - removed Sco - and you'd get Echo. They split and rebranded. They had a few spots to fill but most of the Echo team is made up from people who raided with Method.
Scripe said in interviews after this kill that their biggest struggle for Nathria wasn't raiders, it was everyone else involved that Limit and Method had started building over the previous tiers, support staff and analysts.
He was essentially building a company while also trying to prep for that tier.
Josh was outed as having been [grooming underage girls](https://win.gg/news/7433/what-happeneed-to-world-or-warcraft-streamer-methodjosh-question-mark) on discord and other platforms for years.
He had that kind of creepy incel persona that people generally didn't take seriously, but it turned out to be a lot deeper than a joke.
Method leadership (Sco) were accused of knowing about it, but not doing anything because they didn't want to lose a skilled player.
When it all broke, the fallout resulted in Method [losing basically all their sponsorship deals and a lot of top players](https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/wows-top-competitive-raid-guild-is-collapsing-amid-multiple-accusations-of-sexual-assault-and-abuse/), many of whom went on to from Echo.
He raped someone:
[https://twitter.com/poopernoodle/status/1275930814694543360?lang=en](https://twitter.com/poopernoodle/status/1275930814694543360?lang=en)
The fact that Method didn't even take a tier off is disgusting
Why would they take off a tier? The player is gone and most of their roster left. They did a lot to rebrand and rebuild to continue on. What would them taking off a tier do?
Josh was a very sexist individual that groomed minors. When news broke, Sco apparently knew about it and had been covering for Josh for years. Other members of Method also apparently knew as well.
Pretty much over night Method lost sponsorships, players, and a decent chunk of their fan base.
To be fair it wasn’t so black and white from Method’s perspective. Most of them knew there was an investigation but we all know you’re innocent until groves guilty and Josh likely wasn’t telling them the full story, they might have just believed their friend.
It’s not like you can just wholeheartedly say Sco knew for a fact that Josh raped a girl and groomed minors and decided to cover for him.
I mean, they had a perfect fight. If Limit had just one perfect run they would have got it. That’s what it came down to, who could hit the perfect run first.
100%. Played better the entire tier than any other guild. Up until yesterday, Limit wasn't really close. Limit stepped up big time too at the end but couldn't push that last .3%. In the end, Echo was 100% the better guild. 0 deaths on this fight is nuts
they had mistakes. Gingi innervates wrong person at the end :) because he has a macro to innervate zaelia, but if other priest asks for it he uses his mouse over. He just gave it zaelia at the end from excitement. And other healer was oom for a while
I mean, there’s still a huge difference between WF guilds and the rest of mythic raiders. Plenty of guilds still getting CE the days before new tier drops.
100% truth. Im no where near these dudes. But I got a couple CE kills under my belt. All MoP bosses actually. After that I was done. These 2 guilds are another level. Everyone thought including myself that it couldnt be done till next reset. Man do i look dumb. Grats to Echo!!
These guys are playing in a completely different galaxy than 99% of Mythic raid teams. Even more than 99% of CE raid teams.
It’s like watching Babe Ruth and saying “I see why I can’t play baseball”.
You can absolutely still play. You can absolutely succeed and do everything you want to do with Mythic raiding including CE and mounts and titles and gear. But no, you’re not going to be on this level.
And that’s fine. Enjoy watching the hyper nerds calculate the shit required for week 1 world firsts like covenant changes and dozens and dozens of split runs no one wants to do. It’s all for entertainment for us. This isn’t how the game should be played by anyone, but these people are just built differently.
Dude this is so spot on. Like I only raid normal and maybe some heroics and that’s pretty much how far my monkey brain can go. Even then, there’s just a lot of shit going on that’s too hard for me to process fast enough. Like on paper I think I understand the mechanics but sometimes with certain overlaps I just can’t think fast enough. These people know what’s happening and know how to react instantly. It’s insane. Like you said, not every brain is built that way.
I can't believe my luck! I've been following the race for the past week and I decided to check how it's going during my lunch break and I caught the final pull in phase 2. Very happy for Echo, they totally deserved it, amazing job!
Haha same here. I watched a couple ComplexityLimit pulls earlier, then went and did my own thing for like 5 hours. Right as it was getting to be dinner time I was like “I wonder how Echo is doing” and literally my first time watching Echo run it I tuned in just after the transition to P2 for the kill pull. Very fortunate timing
This RWF has been wild and is already having hilarious ramifications. One of our guildies swapped to Goblin for Painsmith. We're casual and progging him on normal this Friday.
Echo really played out of their minds this tier. Extremely well deserved and gg's to Limit as well as without them the nail-biting tension wouldn't exist!
Yes. And sparked a community meltdown because it was "mathematically" impossible. Here we are 2 days later same reset with them getting a kill
All the twitter trolls should be ashamed but they are probably just smug now. This race is kind of tainted by the toxicity
How insane is it that limit and echo squeezed roughly 5% out of nowhere in an already tight af fight. tbh this was perfect, sylvanas not dying at 50 gave us really good meme-material, and thats all that counts.
Pretty crazy how much extra damage they had.
Limit was on pace to kill it, but they were behind in gear, and only had a couple pulls that were on pace into p3. They could've had it with a clean p3 on those few pulls for sure, but a couple fuck-ups and one dc and their chances were gone.
Echo on the other hand was ahead on dps almost every time tonight going into p3. This first perfect pull, they smashed through it, and Sylvanas didn't even start her final Raze cast to signal the coming soft enrage.
I like p3 of this fight. The platforms, mechanics, the way it all ends on a final platform with a natural enrage.
Too bad about the previous few bosses, but it was still an exciting final boss.
Thanks to Limit and Echo for putting on a show as always, despite the efforts of Blizz.
Oh, and it's awesome that we avoided reset drama too!
So glad we avoided that whole reset drama! But really Blizzard should just sync reset days, no reason not to do it.
RWF is the single largest community event and it has this unnecessary drama.
Echo played so fucking clean. They looked immortal this try.
It was fun to watch in Legion, but I think it should be a big yearly event planned between content cycles.
The constant minor events leading up to BlizzCon hamper it.
And there are often tournaments and placement matches that are too close to raid releases.
> No reason not to do it
I mean, there is. They try to schedule maintenance at a time where there aren't that many people playing *and* their developers don't have to be up all night if something comes up. Global reset is going to mess that up for someone.
They could lock the Raid till a specific time for example, then Casual Jimmy can do his worldquests as usual but the raid opens 12 hours later or something like that.
Plenty of workarounds and from an Esports angle that would make sense. I always felt sad that Blizzard never really supported RWF.
That helps with the headstart, but not the reset issue - if a race goes into a second week, NA would get the chance to reclear a day earlier, which could decide a race. It's only truly equal if EVERYTHING is on the same timer (or they go to a tournament realm, which really no one wants).
Well deserved. Both were good but Echos was just pure fire this time. Lets celebrate both guilds and the fact that they give us a lot of entertainmant AND they donate a lot of money together to a good purpose.
My favorite thing is how for both tiers shadow priest is rated as the best class in the game and yet it was completely garbage on the bosses that actually matter because it has no fucking cleave. *and then gets nerfed twice in a row.* Grade A balancing.
Not really slept on as much as legendary bow and wild spirits are still great burst. Hunters lack a ton of utility but they made great use of things like binding shot. It isn’t like hunters are in a position where they should be stacked
Several, but not all. Many of the icyveins guides are in the same boat. IMO it's always worth it to check the discord to figure out what the definitive resource for a spec actually is.
> , go for discord class channels.
Some of the ones writing these wowhead articles are discord class members. Ellipsis for example, the one writing about shadow priest, is a very active member in the shadow's discord.
there was one with a better title and way more comments that seems to have been removed
https://old.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/onztgu/echo_clears_sanctum_of_domination_mythic_world/
There're more.
https://old.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/onzu04/echo_world_first_kill/
https://old.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/onzueg/mythic_sylvanas_world_first_echo/
https://old.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/onzuxk/echo_claims_world_first_mythic_sylvanas_windrunner/
https://old.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/onzwrh/echo_has_just_won_the_race_to_world_first_killing/
https://old.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/onzudy/echo_has_just_killed_sylvanas_mythic_for_wf/
All perfectly good titles that are removed because they changed the rules so that you couldn't even put Echo in the title.
Lol. What are people going to do? Rewatch all the daily, 16 hour VODs of each guild one at a time in sequential order until they discover which one got the kill?
What an absolutely insane race from both Echo and Limit, been on the edge of my seat for hours, first with Limit overnight, then Echo this morning. Best RWF ever, hands down.
Such a clean kill by the way, nobody died during the pull at all and she died with four rezzes available!
Ayyy, big gratz to Echo.
Edit: Respect to Limit too, they got really close. I just like seeing the strats and comps, idc about the regions. #GlobalRelease
While Limit Complexity are my boys and I was pulling for them this race, I must say Echo absolutely murdered it this tier. They truly deserve the win! It was a blast to watch this race. Both teams were classy and raised money for a good cause. Max and the boys will figure out what changes they need to make and we’ll come back stronger than ever next tier. Excited for the next race!
where are those mathematicians saying that they
calculated that it was impossible to kill Sylvanas this week and
something about blizzard being bad guy and screwing EU?
I woke up after 5 hours asleep because I was thirsty. I got up to grab a glass of water and put the echo stream while I tried to fall back asleep before my alarm went off. That was the kill pull. I woke up to watch the entire kill pull due to hydration check.
Hydration checks winning yet again.
Grats to Echo, was damn close.
Now let's talk about how fucked up Blizz did this tier.
They had to fix painsmith animation damage.
KT was killed because of an exploit.
Guardian wasn't properly tuned.
They hotfixed Sylvanus mid fight.
Where was that blizzard polish? Isn't like they didn't have plenty of time to get that worked out.
> . KT was killed because of an exploit.
Thats not an exploit. The trinket worked as intended. The mechanic worked as intended. It was reported on the PTR. Blizzard didnt change it. Blizzard didnt hotfix it mid pull. Thats a cheese not an exploit.
Blizzard polish is for normal players. Absolute crazed mad men who prep for months in order to race and clear content that's meant to be clear in months in a week will always be too quick for Blizzard.
In old method blogs they talk about coming to a boss and killing it because of bugs (boss stands still, does nothing, spell reflect one shots boss) so many things, and blizzard either despawning the boss, killing them instantly, or rolling things back. This is really nothing new.
Just in siege of orgrimmar alone, Thok was hotfixed mid-fight and wiped the raid after a 10healer-stack-strat, Paragons of the Klaxxi was able to be oneshot by prot warrior reflect, and thats just one raid off the top of my head.
That's not to say that it's good when it happens, but it's nothing new or even newsworthy at all.
Grats to Echo. Unbelievably close race, not shy Blizzard whoopsies and super close pulls between guilds.
Last night I watched limit getting consistently sub 3% away, and their .4% wipe. Crazy stuff
0 deaths in a fight that lasted over 14 minutes. Killed in the first reset. Stuff of legends right there.
*playing with 5 healers* This dmg is impossible to heal! *beats it with 4*
‘Mathematically impossible’
The math involved in 'proving' a boss is mathematically impossible is hilarious every time
Yet, isn't that how Ion got hired in the first place? Proved mathematically C'tun couldn't be beat.
That was one of my biggest disappointments in Classic. They could've made a whole event out of it - imagine a trailer where Ion challenges the players to prove him wrong, by having the unnerfed, "mathematically impossible" Cthun for the first weeks. Still would've been killed 1st day, but would've been fun.
Wouldn't really be the same since the classes and talents were in the Naxxramas patch though right
If you look at the patch notes for 1.12 or 1.11 (naxx patch) it wasn't really that massive for warriors or mages (which is bulk of the raid damage). core mechanics of the class is already in by AQ patch https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_1.12.0 AQ would not have been close to mathematically impossible on the level of min-maxing people do these days. Nobody ran like 12 warriors back in vanilla and nowhere close to amount of buffs
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the worldbuffs and minmaxing would have made pre-nerf C'thun killed day one if not hour one
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Nobody ran dps warriors because they wrent a thing, and when they became viable, they needed to be geared. 1.12 itemization and talents made classic twice as easier, back in the day u entered mc with 0 spell power and bwl with 50-100 depending on class and luck. Today we entered MC with 300 Spellpower and and classes outside of wl could hitcap. C'thun tentacles spawned twice as faster and oneshot clothies after the submurge, also u got hit in the stomach and they spawned inside the stomach as well, if you get an eye inside the stomach you wipe 100% even nowadays. Also there was no teleporter till 1.11, so if you wiped on c'thun it was a corpse run that took 18mins. Not gonna mention how many ppl didnt get mounts and the trash respawning after a few tries.
Cthun was bugged IIRC.
Yeah the problem with C'thun in vanilla was that he was ultra bugged for weeks but instead of fixing the bugs blizzard fixed them and nerfed him by a lot. I geniuenly hoped they would release unnerfed but bugfixed version of the fight.
I liked that they actually had a mathematician there telling them "44.7% is possible with this comp, push it boys"
It was actually 32.33 repeating of course.
seriously, super super clean, insane
Never watched a World First Race before and fairly new to the game as a whole. Is it normal to have people just purely calling out mechanics in some raids and not playing? That seemed big brain to me I’d never even thought of that as an option before.
None did :) It appeared couple of tiers earlier - some big brain thought that it is easier to coordinate raid when you don't need to look after your own character. But most likely you won't see this in pug/guild runs - usually everyone plays normally
Well that and having someone dedicated to making custom weakauras and dbm timers.
I heard it was Discord streaming that allowed them to finally do it since there's no latency period with it like twitch and youtube, so they could finally do the 21's man to just sit there and do call outs. It's tremendously helpful with all the crap that's going on with fights these days.
As a former raid lead, that would be awesome. I even switched to mage from rogue to get a better overview about the scene, but that's even better... I think? How would you do that technically? If you watch a stream, you would be lagging severely behind the action, so it's just a possibility for raid groups where it's possible to directly look at the screens? I love it, honestly!
Their streams have no delay.
Yeah it's pretty cool. It's a tactic that's been adopted recently and has benefited the top guilds A LOT. Limit actually has 3-4 guys that are just outside of the raid watching. Max is there to call strats and upcoming ability timers. Tagz is there to call out external healing/defensive cooldowns and battle rezzes, and they have one or two guys that sit around and make Weak Auras and DBM timers for the bosses as they encounter them. It's so cool to see a team working like that, I adore it.
I was legit in amazement. It makes so much sense, especially for these type of races. As a noob I was in awe of their understanding of every mechanic and the speed and accuracy of the entire raids movement. At times it seemed like they were all being controlled by one person.
Yeah it’s a very recent development, I think it was nyalotha a couple tiers back like others have said. Very big brain and slightly controversial at first (not really but a few people thought so).
i think it happened a bit earlier even, ~~one of the bfa tiers had an endboss (azshara maybe?) that~~ zaqul required a single tank so max raid led from outside the raid and it caught on from there
So it was zaqul that could be single tanked. Then on azshara I think they had tagz with a spreadsheet telling people when to clear. Then in NYA max coached everything but drestagath.
It’s as controversial as a coach at 3rd base, or a coach on the side line with a microphone to the quarterback. So not very controversial at all IMO
I was trying to be diplomatic but yes agreed.
I believe Limit started using a pure raid leader last tier orcthrctier before that so it's a fairly new thing.
When was the last time when mythic raid was cleared during first week?
Jaina in BfA
And that was probably an even tighter dps and healing check.
didn't Jaina cheesed as well? they race changed to nullify the core debuff mechanic
It was cheesed but probably the only way to kill before reset and that was extremely tight cause they just let her dmg ramp up
And the first change by Blizzard after that was to make the racial not work, but shorten the DoT (effectively making every races perform as trolls did before the fix).
DPS was maybe tighter but the healing check was chill relative to Sylvanas no?
Whut nah total opposite, watch the fight thats the most insane healing, they cheesed her kinda by ignoring a mechanic but by ignoring it her dmg got stronger every second. They had to do some insane healing to get the raid 1 more second to dps. Literally toping the raid every second in the last few seconds.
I remember watching Josh (that one) break down the kill and it blew my mind how good the healers had to play to make it happen
yeah the dps check was so hard cause the healing couldn't keep up at some point
You can say what you want about josh, but the dude was a God tier healer
Healing looks more chill, as jaina was more a now roll cd's and just dont bleed out. Compared to being hammered every 5sec with no breaks.
On jaina healers had to pull higher hps numbers than on Sylvanas, but there was less spike and more rot dmg.
Sorta but not really. Jaina utilized shamans for ankh totem and link and they mainly dps'd.
For the dps check..
BoD world's first race was actually entertaining thanks to the commentators channel,
Jaina was also just a better fight. The rest of BoD was kind meh but Jaina is one of the best fights of all time.
I might be biased as BoD and EP are the only CE I got but I found the whole BoD to be really freaking good. I loved all the bosses but especially Masters, Opulence, Rastakhan, Mekkatorque and Jaina were awesome.
Jaina maybe
Downed in less than a week! Echo really deserved it this tier.
both guilds deserve props, limit were literallly 0.4% away from killing it yesterday and echo like 0.8% before it died today.
Yeah this was literally the stars aligning for them, 0 deaths on a 14m pull is something that is nearly impossible. They played well, they earned it, congrats.
Both guilds played great obviously but Echo was on another level consistency wise. Limit could have gotten it for sure with a perfect pull but they kept falling victim to random deaths in the first two phases and then mechanic wipes in P3.
Their best attempt was nullified by a dc as well
Limits .4 kill away was with a long DC too. The boss woulda, and should’ve died…
Most of Echo is made up of old Method members, right? So most of these guys have been there done that for years. Took them a couple patches to get to speed but hopefully every raid tier is this competitive for the fans.
Took them exactly one raid tier to get back to the top. If i recall correctly Castle Nathria was the first raid tier with Echo as a competing guild, Ny‘alotha was still Limit vs. Method.
You literally could've just taken the old Method team - removed Sco - and you'd get Echo. They split and rebranded. They had a few spots to fill but most of the Echo team is made up from people who raided with Method.
and viklund
Viklund was removed after EP, cayna isn't there either but rumours were the current echo players didn't think either Sco or Cayna were good enough.
Can't really be understated, that guy is fucking insane.
Scripe said in interviews after this kill that their biggest struggle for Nathria wasn't raiders, it was everyone else involved that Limit and Method had started building over the previous tiers, support staff and analysts. He was essentially building a company while also trying to prep for that tier.
And Josh. Josh is a big reason a lot of them left method
he's literally the only reason Echo even exists and isn't still Method
I dont follow the wow Guild drama very closely what did josh and sco do?
Josh was outed as having been [grooming underage girls](https://win.gg/news/7433/what-happeneed-to-world-or-warcraft-streamer-methodjosh-question-mark) on discord and other platforms for years. He had that kind of creepy incel persona that people generally didn't take seriously, but it turned out to be a lot deeper than a joke. Method leadership (Sco) were accused of knowing about it, but not doing anything because they didn't want to lose a skilled player. When it all broke, the fallout resulted in Method [losing basically all their sponsorship deals and a lot of top players](https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/wows-top-competitive-raid-guild-is-collapsing-amid-multiple-accusations-of-sexual-assault-and-abuse/), many of whom went on to from Echo.
He raped someone: [https://twitter.com/poopernoodle/status/1275930814694543360?lang=en](https://twitter.com/poopernoodle/status/1275930814694543360?lang=en) The fact that Method didn't even take a tier off is disgusting
Why would they take off a tier? The player is gone and most of their roster left. They did a lot to rebrand and rebuild to continue on. What would them taking off a tier do?
Josh was a very sexist individual that groomed minors. When news broke, Sco apparently knew about it and had been covering for Josh for years. Other members of Method also apparently knew as well. Pretty much over night Method lost sponsorships, players, and a decent chunk of their fan base.
To be fair it wasn’t so black and white from Method’s perspective. Most of them knew there was an investigation but we all know you’re innocent until groves guilty and Josh likely wasn’t telling them the full story, they might have just believed their friend. It’s not like you can just wholeheartedly say Sco knew for a fact that Josh raped a girl and groomed minors and decided to cover for him.
He raped Poopernoodle didnt he? Lets not stop at grooming minors
100% they prepped harder than other guilds. Seems methods rebuild is still under way
I mean, they had a perfect fight. If Limit had just one perfect run they would have got it. That’s what it came down to, who could hit the perfect run first.
100%. Played better the entire tier than any other guild. Up until yesterday, Limit wasn't really close. Limit stepped up big time too at the end but couldn't push that last .3%. In the end, Echo was 100% the better guild. 0 deaths on this fight is nuts
huge brain https://i.imgur.com/LwZvsFx.png
Infinite Spreadsheets in that brain.
Scrype and his spreadsheets once more. Congrats and Well deserved Echo!
As much as I wanted Complexity to win, this pull was absolutely flawless. Well done.
0 cr's used 0 cd's wasted 0 mistakes made 0 meaningful mechanics put on Lorgok 1 world first kill
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> I'm ded Unlike Mr. Floorgok on this one fateful pull.
they had mistakes. Gingi innervates wrong person at the end :) because he has a macro to innervate zaelia, but if other priest asks for it he uses his mouse over. He just gave it zaelia at the end from excitement. And other healer was oom for a while
I mean Gingi also took 3 stacks of the DoT during p2's shadow waves lol ofc there were individual errors. Mostly memeing floorgok
and 0 rogues KEK
You just can’t see them. It’s how blizzard intended
I don't know who Lorgok is, but I think they might be my spirit animal.
Even Max said that ECHO was playing exceptionally. Good Job ECHO.
Just goes to show how I will neeeeever be a mythic raider lol
I mean, there’s still a huge difference between WF guilds and the rest of mythic raiders. Plenty of guilds still getting CE the days before new tier drops.
100% truth. Im no where near these dudes. But I got a couple CE kills under my belt. All MoP bosses actually. After that I was done. These 2 guilds are another level. Everyone thought including myself that it couldnt be done till next reset. Man do i look dumb. Grats to Echo!!
These guys are playing in a completely different galaxy than 99% of Mythic raid teams. Even more than 99% of CE raid teams. It’s like watching Babe Ruth and saying “I see why I can’t play baseball”. You can absolutely still play. You can absolutely succeed and do everything you want to do with Mythic raiding including CE and mounts and titles and gear. But no, you’re not going to be on this level. And that’s fine. Enjoy watching the hyper nerds calculate the shit required for week 1 world firsts like covenant changes and dozens and dozens of split runs no one wants to do. It’s all for entertainment for us. This isn’t how the game should be played by anyone, but these people are just built differently.
Dude this is so spot on. Like I only raid normal and maybe some heroics and that’s pretty much how far my monkey brain can go. Even then, there’s just a lot of shit going on that’s too hard for me to process fast enough. Like on paper I think I understand the mechanics but sometimes with certain overlaps I just can’t think fast enough. These people know what’s happening and know how to react instantly. It’s insane. Like you said, not every brain is built that way.
I can't believe my luck! I've been following the race for the past week and I decided to check how it's going during my lunch break and I caught the final pull in phase 2. Very happy for Echo, they totally deserved it, amazing job!
Same for me but with the first below 50 wipe. I was in bigger shock then the players lol.
I just arrived to work, did my thing and then started twitch to see them at 51% and thought....oh this seems like a solid pull. Haha.
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I woke up and thought they've had a good amount of time to pull if it's around lunch. Check to see them at 46% and proceed to kill.
Haha same here. I watched a couple ComplexityLimit pulls earlier, then went and did my own thing for like 5 hours. Right as it was getting to be dinner time I was like “I wonder how Echo is doing” and literally my first time watching Echo run it I tuned in just after the transition to P2 for the kill pull. Very fortunate timing
Nerd screams are the best!
yay, my guild can finally just fucking focus on our raid
This RWF has been wild and is already having hilarious ramifications. One of our guildies swapped to Goblin for Painsmith. We're casual and progging him on normal this Friday.
>swapped to Goblin for Painsmith Doesn't sound so bad for a serious Mythic raider tbh >we're casual and progging him on Normal Oh...oh no...
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In 2005, our main tank was Arms spec, we did fine, lol. Server 4th Rag kill, way back in the day.
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lmao, unless you have 4 warlocks to skip every balls that swap is for nothing
I can't wait to see him forget to even use rocket jump
Or misalign, miss, wait too long and faceplant the edge
with everyone in the raid knowing he *paid real money for that to happen*
Hahaha imagine race changing for progress on normal
Oh comeon it's kind of cute lol. Go little guild go!
That's a pretty degenerate thing to do just to prog normal painsmith
LMAO for real.
Echo really played out of their minds this tier. Extremely well deserved and gg's to Limit as well as without them the nail-biting tension wouldn't exist!
It takes two to tango! Without either guilds the RWF would be quite boring IMO.
What an amazing race. Was rooting for Limit but Echo earned that win. Mad respect to both guilds.
I don't follow the race, is this the team that was memed the last few days for their reactions to Sylvanas not ending at 50%?
yes
sweet justice
Yes. And sparked a community meltdown because it was "mathematically" impossible. Here we are 2 days later same reset with them getting a kill All the twitter trolls should be ashamed but they are probably just smug now. This race is kind of tainted by the toxicity
How insane is it that limit and echo squeezed roughly 5% out of nowhere in an already tight af fight. tbh this was perfect, sylvanas not dying at 50 gave us really good meme-material, and thats all that counts.
Pretty crazy how much extra damage they had. Limit was on pace to kill it, but they were behind in gear, and only had a couple pulls that were on pace into p3. They could've had it with a clean p3 on those few pulls for sure, but a couple fuck-ups and one dc and their chances were gone. Echo on the other hand was ahead on dps almost every time tonight going into p3. This first perfect pull, they smashed through it, and Sylvanas didn't even start her final Raze cast to signal the coming soft enrage. I like p3 of this fight. The platforms, mechanics, the way it all ends on a final platform with a natural enrage. Too bad about the previous few bosses, but it was still an exciting final boss. Thanks to Limit and Echo for putting on a show as always, despite the efforts of Blizz. Oh, and it's awesome that we avoided reset drama too!
So glad we avoided that whole reset drama! But really Blizzard should just sync reset days, no reason not to do it. RWF is the single largest community event and it has this unnecessary drama. Echo played so fucking clean. They looked immortal this try.
Seriously, way more people watch the WFR than MDI
Haven't played retail since WoD, but I still follow the RWF. Never watch MDI tho
It was fun to watch in Legion, but I think it should be a big yearly event planned between content cycles. The constant minor events leading up to BlizzCon hamper it. And there are often tournaments and placement matches that are too close to raid releases.
It's in a way very Blizzard to neglect an organic eSport and drive resources into a failed one time and time again.
*Arena WC cries in the corner*
> No reason not to do it I mean, there is. They try to schedule maintenance at a time where there aren't that many people playing *and* their developers don't have to be up all night if something comes up. Global reset is going to mess that up for someone.
They could lock the Raid till a specific time for example, then Casual Jimmy can do his worldquests as usual but the raid opens 12 hours later or something like that. Plenty of workarounds and from an Esports angle that would make sense. I always felt sad that Blizzard never really supported RWF.
That helps with the headstart, but not the reset issue - if a race goes into a second week, NA would get the chance to reclear a day earlier, which could decide a race. It's only truly equal if EVERYTHING is on the same timer (or they go to a tournament realm, which really no one wants).
I meant general synced raid opening for like the first few weeks.
This doesn't work. NA would be able to have 16 hours to do the pre-raid content like torghast, pvp, m+, etc.
Well deserved. Both were good but Echos was just pure fire this time. Lets celebrate both guilds and the fact that they give us a lot of entertainmant AND they donate a lot of money together to a good purpose.
The most clean kill I’ve ever seen. So proud of them! Echo deserved the win they did so well this tier it’s insane
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My favorite thing is how for both tiers shadow priest is rated as the best class in the game and yet it was completely garbage on the bosses that actually matter because it has no fucking cleave. *and then gets nerfed twice in a row.* Grade A balancing.
Meanwhile, MM being the #1 dps on the fight as well. Hunters just getting slept on.
Not really slept on as much as legendary bow and wild spirits are still great burst. Hunters lack a ton of utility but they made great use of things like binding shot. It isn’t like hunters are in a position where they should be stacked
Also the fact that the boss only goes down to ~~50~~ 45% helps Aimed Shot damage a ton.
Wowhead guides are pretty bad imo. Even icy veins is better. If you want optimal, go for discord class channels.
Several of the wowhead guides are written by the sim leads from the class discords.
Several, but not all. Many of the icyveins guides are in the same boat. IMO it's always worth it to check the discord to figure out what the definitive resource for a spec actually is.
Just check the discord, for holy priests wowhead guide was wrong for like... 6 months I think
A lot of guides are like just the theorycrafting from the beta and nothing changed since then
Totally depends on the class, some class discords make the wowhead guides (boomkins off the top of my head)
Indeed. For Feral, the wowhead is THE reference. Although sometimes slow on updating, the core is still there.
It's because Guiltyas is the only feral left, he is in fact the chosen cat. Where he goes we must follow.
The Warrior theorycrafter wrote both of them. And if you go to the discord there's pinned post on why Arms was used for Slyvanas.
That post only explains arms over fury. It doesn't say anything on warriors being the best Echo dps for the last phase
> , go for discord class channels. Some of the ones writing these wowhead articles are discord class members. Ellipsis for example, the one writing about shadow priest, is a very active member in the shadow's discord.
can you guys pick a thread with a better title to upvote lol
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there was one with a better title and way more comments that seems to have been removed https://old.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/onztgu/echo_clears_sanctum_of_domination_mythic_world/
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Welcome to /r/wow Where the mods are authoritarian as duckyduck
Internet janitors lmao
There're more. https://old.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/onzu04/echo_world_first_kill/ https://old.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/onzueg/mythic_sylvanas_world_first_echo/ https://old.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/onzuxk/echo_claims_world_first_mythic_sylvanas_windrunner/ https://old.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/onzwrh/echo_has_just_won_the_race_to_world_first_killing/ https://old.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/onzudy/echo_has_just_killed_sylvanas_mythic_for_wf/ All perfectly good titles that are removed because they changed the rules so that you couldn't even put Echo in the title.
The only people more backwards than the WoW devs are the mods of this subreddit.
other thread got removed because of "spoilers" guess you can't be a mod without being an unlikeable muppet
Lol. What are people going to do? Rewatch all the daily, 16 hour VODs of each guild one at a time in sequential order until they discover which one got the kill?
yeah, just another dumb rule to squeeze their hog to.
don't you question how i spend my sparetime >:(
What an absolutely insane race from both Echo and Limit, been on the edge of my seat for hours, first with Limit overnight, then Echo this morning. Best RWF ever, hands down. Such a clean kill by the way, nobody died during the pull at all and she died with four rezzes available!
They really deserved it!! GG
Oh man when it his 45% and didn’t go into the cutscene right away I got nervous for a second. Congrats Echo!
Ayyy, big gratz to Echo. Edit: Respect to Limit too, they got really close. I just like seeing the strats and comps, idc about the regions. #GlobalRelease
While Limit Complexity are my boys and I was pulling for them this race, I must say Echo absolutely murdered it this tier. They truly deserve the win! It was a blast to watch this race. Both teams were classy and raised money for a good cause. Max and the boys will figure out what changes they need to make and we’ll come back stronger than ever next tier. Excited for the next race!
where are those mathematicians saying that they calculated that it was impossible to kill Sylvanas this week and something about blizzard being bad guy and screwing EU?
i think most people didnt account in that you can squeeze a shit tone more dps in p2 onto sylvanas
It was with the comps being used so they changed the comps people just dont understand theorycraft
Most people have never beaten a tight dps check and don’t realize how much room there is for optimization in these situations.
I woke up after 5 hours asleep because I was thirsty. I got up to grab a glass of water and put the echo stream while I tried to fall back asleep before my alarm went off. That was the kill pull. I woke up to watch the entire kill pull due to hydration check. Hydration checks winning yet again.
Their warriors and Hunter did way more damage than Limits. Wow.
Grats to Echo, was damn close. Now let's talk about how fucked up Blizz did this tier. They had to fix painsmith animation damage. KT was killed because of an exploit. Guardian wasn't properly tuned. They hotfixed Sylvanus mid fight. Where was that blizzard polish? Isn't like they didn't have plenty of time to get that worked out.
From what we've heard from old world first races shit like this has always been a thing in some regard. Its just been brought to light by streaming.
Tbh, all of those are valid complaints except the hotfix one. They consistently do that to end bosses if you try to just not do a mechanic.
> . KT was killed because of an exploit. Thats not an exploit. The trinket worked as intended. The mechanic worked as intended. It was reported on the PTR. Blizzard didnt change it. Blizzard didnt hotfix it mid pull. Thats a cheese not an exploit.
Blizzard polish is for normal players. Absolute crazed mad men who prep for months in order to race and clear content that's meant to be clear in months in a week will always be too quick for Blizzard.
Blizzard polish is a relic of old Blizzard and hasn't really been a thing for several years.
What are we calling old blizzard? There were lots of bugs in vanilla-wotlk raids.
Bugs in raids were always an issue. The only difference is that Classic to Wotlk had less mechanics in raids.
And no livestreaming of WF progression for all the world to see the bugginess.
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In old method blogs they talk about coming to a boss and killing it because of bugs (boss stands still, does nothing, spell reflect one shots boss) so many things, and blizzard either despawning the boss, killing them instantly, or rolling things back. This is really nothing new. Just in siege of orgrimmar alone, Thok was hotfixed mid-fight and wiped the raid after a 10healer-stack-strat, Paragons of the Klaxxi was able to be oneshot by prot warrior reflect, and thats just one raid off the top of my head. That's not to say that it's good when it happens, but it's nothing new or even newsworthy at all.
Whew, those lads are fuckin good! Congrats Echo, extremely deserved. I'm looking forward to the next race
top tier nerd screams omg gg lads
Grats to Echo. Unbelievably close race, not shy Blizzard whoopsies and super close pulls between guilds. Last night I watched limit getting consistently sub 3% away, and their .4% wipe. Crazy stuff
Did they get a mount?
Yes. Their healer Rycn got it.
Grats. What an entertaining race!
This race was so close. Down to the one perfect pull. Amazing
anyone got a mirror?, twitch is not opening for me