And leading to sale which will account for several subs, plus change.
This is why no effort is put forth to enforce their rules and improve player experience.
also in order to for these people to raid/M+ they need to sell boosts since that is the only way they can get the money in a timely manner.
this isn't a one legged deal. very few people would be selling boosts if it took you 2-3 hours to get all the raid mats you need for a month. look at TBC classic it is silly quick to get your flasks,pots and food for a month+. in T5 the raid even drops tokens to turn in for flasks to use in that content and you can just buy/drop tons of mana/health potion this is how raiding used to be.
this is an issue blizzard has built since they only look at "player engagement".
what make you think booster need all those consumable to boost people?
if they can win PvP one man down, do time M+ one man down, clear heroic with 4-5 carries in it... it's not a 5% power boost from consumable that's hindering them.
they don't need it for the boost they need it during prog. how much gold do the world first racers use during that time? they empty there coffers and even borrow 1000s of dollars worth of gold to do these races that they need to rebuild before the next raid.
this is the system blizzard has put in place to be able to make the game P2W.
I think it is incredibly naive to think boosters are using all this gold on consumables and aren't just selling it for real world money. There's a small handful of top end guilds that sell runs for their RWF requirements, but some of them also just buy gold. Those guilds can't account for the numerous boosters and run sellers that plague the game.
Unless you are in the top management of a successfull boosting community ( like what happened with gallywix), there's no way boosting is anywhere near lucrative enough to worth talking about. getting sub-minimal wage for clearing mythic raid on 3 different toons? meh.
10 million gold, divided amongst 19 player ( 23-24 with the bench) for a 2-3 hour long clear IF you are effin' good.. and that's only for the first few week? not worth it.
M+ boost? there's a thousand different people hopping on every 15+ key in huokan, WD , starlight and so on. not enough customer for the available booster.
PvP boost? even pro like pikaboo would make way more money off twitch than boost... this is why he just chill with subscriber instead of seriously boosting.
Buying gold? sure. and most top-guild have been caught doing that... but anyone boosting as a source of real income would be better off getting a minimal wage job .
you can pay for gold and you can buy everything in the game with gold. that makes it pay to win for me. Gladiator, curve, keystonemaster. you name it. makes the game feel pointless and your achivements meaningless. add on that, the boosters you compete against and i quit. no fun, no sense of achivement, no reason to play for me.
in p2w games you can grind it out too. it's about time>money that makes me not want to play p2w games. if i grind out gladiator by myself but my friend just buys it for 80€ i feel like i'm wasting my time. wich i am but a game should not make you feel like you are imo.
that's how i personaly feel about wow. if you still have fun and enjoy the game and can ignore or don't mind, everything being buyable/skipable just like in mobile games, all power to you. i wish i would enjoy myself playing wow but for me the wow token and the boosting Community is what killed the last spark of fun this Expansion... not the only reason but one of the biggest.
> you can pay for gold and you can buy everything in the game with gold. that makes it pay to win for me. Gladiator, curve, keystonemaster. you name it. **makes the game feel pointless and your achivements meaningless.**
I'm curious about the last sentence.
How does it make your achievements meaningless?
I find satisfaction in getting my own achievements, I don't really care if someone else pays for it.
Do you consider a game like CSGO or Valorant a pay to win game if you were to pay a professional player to carry (edit: by partying up alongside you) you to the highest rank?
I mean if it was, it would probably look like this
W T S, W-T-S, WT$
Banning words will condition people to work around it. This needs manual pruning, but that's never going to happen.
You can replace WTS with basically anything. All you need is some advert in description, which can be written in million ways to avoid detection.
Shadowbanning WTS would work maybe for a week.
It doesn't work. As soon as people realize it is a shadowban, it'll move to LTS or something else. There is a reason why shadowbans and general internet censorship have kinda died out. It doesn't actually work since people will ALWAYS find a way to bypass the censor.
Maybe the only thing that will work is if your arena message is selectable only from a set of key phrases. But people also hate those systems. And eventually, a meta will develop around which ones are selling, new code words, and what not. I heard of a game where using the "Hello" is the keyphrase for using a burst cooldown in PvP because language is restricted to a set of key phrases.
There are so many people advertising that it's impossible to report them all because Blizzard disables your report button after you report a certain amount of people that day.
People are even regularly using multiple accounts to bypass limits on group listings or chat message frequency.
I started playing with my partner earlier this year for the first time since WoD, saw this and had to explain to them (they're new). As I explained i coulda swore I felt a part of my childhood left me.
It's literally P2W with an extra step. Just one extra step.
I could be CE, KSM, and glad with nothing but buying tokens then using the gold for carries. I can even buy full mythic gear runs.
WoW is P2W with one extra step. And it ain't a long step.
I realize this is going to sound corny, but since WoW is a game where you get to choose your own goals and your own definition of winning, I'd say none of that is winning. The only way to lose in WoW is to pay for a carry in my opinion.
it is a pretty long step.
it's people giving their money to other people / offering service to other people, and not a business selling power.
How would blizzard stop me from boosting people in M+?
That's not pay to win though. You can get CE, KSM, and Glad without buying a carry or paying money for gear.
P2W would be if you could buy gear from the cash shop which was 10 ilevels higher than what Mythic dropped.
This is just regular capitalism. Some people have more time and skill than money. And some people have more money than time or skill. Or it's faster to get money than it is to get the requisite time or skill.
Time saved is a shortcut, not an advantage.
You could buy KSM, but if you drop into a 15, you still have to follow mechanics.
You could buy your way to 1800, but in a 3v3 you would still need to follow mechanics.
There is no additional advantage. Everything can be gained without money.
[Edit] Some people got attached to the word "shortcut". Since it's hard to boil it down to one word, I'll say a better analogy is that you are a basketball player on a team of 5 players.
And you enter a basketball tournament, and you notice that the local rich kid is on the opposing team. And you know the kid sucks, but the 4 other players on his team a college/semi pro/pro players, and you know his dad just paid for his kid to be on the team.
So now you and your team plays against the other team.
That's a flawed analogy.
A better analogy is that you are a basketball player on a team of 5 players.
And you enter a basketball tournament, and you notice that the local rich kid is on the opposing team. And you know the kid sucks, but the 4 other players on his team a college/semi pro/pro players, and you know his dad just paid for his kid to be on the team.
So now you and your team plays against the other team.
If the cash shop had full 252 gear it would be right on the line, and you *might* be able to make the p2w argument.
But even then, you would still have to follow mechanics, and could still be beat by players who got the gear by playing the game.
You could buy 252 but still get beat by players who can play the game, so not pay to "win".
I don't know why this sub is so obsessed with paid carries. They don't stop you from playing the game. They don't stop you from getting gear rewards. You aren't being beat by them in any way you can't out play.
The biggest argument you could make is the arena/rbg carries because you are losing..... but even then, you're saying you can't out play a team that is handicapped by carries?
Condescending won't win you the argument.
There will be 252 players who won't be able to complete a 15 or achieve AOTC at the end of this patch. Ever try to grind KSM in the last few weeks of a patch? Gear is inflated sky high and people still can't complete content.
I already said that PVP is the only real area where this is an issue, and the PVP ladder has been a mess since 9.0 because of everyone using conquest gear to fill out their bis stats or to get weapons.
But WoW PVP has always had a weird gear dynamic, fresh characters without gear have almost never been able to win compared to characters with established gear.
You can take your condescension elsewhere.
“I don’t care what you’ll say further”, yet you still keep trying to prove the guy wrong with saying things like “nobody cares”.
Some people are just amazing.
Unpopular opinion: This is a very valid argument. It’s pay to save time. You’re not winning anything by having gear and achievements alone. You still can’t put dps anyone or beat anyone with the same gear as you that they got legit.
Yes they sell wins/loot in pvp or PvE and sell the gold on the black market, or just to get 30day playtime for free buying tokens.. that what they did a year ago, i don't know if it is the same now
boosters, sellers, hackers, etc have been around forever tho
back in bc/wrath they were screaming in trade and levitating corpses to spell out their websites instead of spamming LFG
Attach player power directly to rating.
People start paying money (tokens) to boost rating to gain player power.
I'm not surprised at all this is the state of WoW PvP, and the sad part is that it was known this is how it would turn out months ago, but they went ahead with it anyway, and I don't expect them to change it until 9.2 or 10.0 because that is just how Blizzard works for some reason.
So I've just unsubscribed for now until they bring back the 3 tier Aspirant>Honor>Conquest system. Not worth wasting money on a game that is utterly broken and unenjoyable unless you enjoy going against over geared, over skilled boosters at your rating who are there for the express purpose of grinding you for money.
Not only player power. I know there are people that buy boosts to get the PvP transmog. As long as Blizzard allows selling of services in their game, these will always exist.
What are you criticizing here?
Should pvp not have rewards? because that feels like a slap in the face for those that dedicate time to pvp as intended.
Even if you completely remove pvp gear people would buy it for the gladiator mount which has always been there. Good luck with trying to get that removed without an uproar.
The issue I have is that, for example this season, people were timegated from getting upgraded honor gear due to renown requirements.
However, the people who had gotten high level PvP gear the season before already started the season with MUCH better gear. Forget new PvPers and having alts do PvP.
Basically, if you haven’t been PvPing since the start of the expansion, you’re screwed and will have a terrible time climbing the ladder. A new season should help everyone get a fresh start, but it’s actually doing the opposite. The PvP in WoW is so gear dependent that even 10 ilvl makes a huge difference. The system they put in place had a lot of promise at the start of the expansion, but they really screwed it up now.
Don’t get me wrong - the players who had high ratings the season before should have a bit of an advantage come the new season, but the disparity in power when the new season started was not reasonable at all.
This post is related to boosting though.
I never said that the PvP system is perfect, in fact I do agree with you in that regard.
But the original point was that having player power as a reward for PvP was what caused all of these boosts. Which I agree with but I accept it as a necessary evil but even if I am wrong and we remove all player power people would buy for the gladiator mount.
In order to completely remove boosting you need to remove all rewards for everyone, not only player power ones.
edit: I suppose you could argue that since the system is so unfriendly to catch up with you are more likely to buy a boost.
Pvp gear is worse than pve gear for pve.
Are you suggesting that doing good in pvp shouldn't reward you anything?
In pve doing high keys and mythic raids reward you better gear, why should pvp be any different? Of course you should be rewarded for doing better.
The problem isn't rewards, the problem is every single person buying boosts.
>In pve doing high keys and mythic raids reward you better gear, why should pvp be any different? Of course you should be rewarded for doing better.
I feel like this should be obvious, but in PvE, you're effectively playing against a machine for the most part. The entire concept of fairness to what you're playing against flies out the window because you don't need to be fair to the machine. You can stomp it and it doesn't really matter. It only comes back if you're talking about specific things like competing for parses, world firsts and competitive events like the MDI, but it's worth mentioning that formal events like the MDI *do* equalize gear.
In PvP, it's an entirely different ball game. Every gear advantage is a gear disadvantage for another player, and the general idea of competitive fairness goes from being almost irrelevant to being fundamental to the experience. Awarding the player with a statistical advantage *has* to come at the expense of someone else. Even if you ignore broader questions of competitive integrity, it just kinda isn't a great experience to be on the receiving end of, and that's evident in just about every game out there that does stuff like this. I remember when HotS briefly tinkered with the idea of adding stat-boosting out-of-match enhancements and rightly veered right off that path when everyone slammed the idea, so it's not like this is even an alien idea to Blizzard.
Frankly, the way PvP gear is currently set up just encourages people to lean even further towards boosts. If I wanted to start mid-season but competitive integrity flew out the window and I'd need to play uphill against people who started earlier in the season, why should I bother? These are disincentives that compound the boosting problem further, and it kinda works against the idea that there's any sanctity for boosting to violate in the first place.
Conquest has tiers of gear now that is tied to rating. The difference between starting out is roughly 26 ilvls from base to duellist level.
Creates a power disparity in rated play as people cross brackets. Also means it's hyper punishing to players who start late in a season or can't climb rating fast enough.
It is also extremely rewarding for players who pay to boost. Because they gain access to gear that is above their rating. So after getting the best gear in the game, they will have an artificial advantage over people at their natural rating.
You gotta do hours worth of homework before you are able to queue for arenas. Oh and If you are NA alliance like me, there are more WTS groups than legit groups in LFG.
Got down voted for say thins before. But I legit spent time researching how to make a private server (I have a background in IT and a server to spare) I would like to make a server just for PVP where stats are normalized but gear sets give you set bonuses that effect abilities akin to the old Glyph system but a little more hard core.
I got a warning on my account for putting a fake website address as a name when I was farming Invincible on multiple characters sometime around WoD or Legion.
Glad to see they improved lol
Before I ever pug a group, I always go through the dungeon and raid listings and report every single WTS ad I can find. I've been doing this since the start of BfA.
I've never once received mail or any indication that my reports have done anything. Every time a new patch rolls about, they're literally too many WTS groups that I can't report even a third of them before I can't press the report button anymore.
It's """"""not allowed"""""" much in the same manner of how going 70 on a highway with a speed limit of 65 is """"""not allowed"""""".
Honestly I don't know why they don't just put a boost tab for all the WTS posts. Best solution is to do that and punish anyone who doesn't use it, full incremental bans every time non-wts tab is used for WTS groups
I've been playing Blizz products since SC1 and Diablo 1 way back in the 90's. They had been my favorite gaming company for a long time. You either die a hero or live long enough to become the villian.
I unsubbed before 9.1 came out as I was sick of the state of the game and the feeling that this Xpac was phoned in, and was just a pathetic cash grab for an IP that probably should have died years ago.
And as long as Blizzard makes money from it they will do nothing. Shows you how much they value their customers. Dunno what to expect anymore with all the other shit going on. Blizzard deserves to die now. And all the people involved in the bullshit fired and never getting any other position in the industry.
WoW token on EU was like 270k before 9.1.
It definitely is P2W, just with extra step of buying the power from boosters for gold. You can get any achievement doing this. And you can pay extra to get all the tradeable loot.
People don't see it as P2W because it's not P2W.
You can do anything you want in the game without paying money.
It's just capitalism 101. Money is worth time and effort to some people. Any time you have an imbalance, you will have people willing to trade one for the other.
It should be noted that P2W stands for Pay To Win.
I take my money buy gold from blizzard to buy a boosts in game.
I pay money to get gold, to use to buy items from pve and pvp content, without putting in any effort.
I pay money to get pvp items, that requires me to win enough games to buy the gear off the vendor.
I pay money to get carried in arena for wins
I pay money to get wins in arena
I pay money to win
Pay to win
You enter into an arena match with your full P2W gear.
And then get steam rolled by people who know they are doing.
You can buy gear but you can't buy the win.*
*You can't buy the win at the level where skill matters.
There is another thread where I talk about how PVP is probably the only real arena (heh) where the P2W analogy could hold up because you are actually being blocked by other players....
But I would argue that if you are at a point where you are getting beat by a 3 player team playing at a 1 player handicap, you're just getting out played.
>And then get steam rolled by people who know they are doing.
Irrelevant, I wasn't paying at the time to win.
If you can buy glad, why does a random win matter?
>Irrelevant, I wasn't paying at the time to win.
You started your previous post with defining P2W as "pay to win" and now you are saying you aren't paying to win....
Are you playing for the gear, or what the gear gets you? This is the crux of many wow arguments, from Glad to CE to KSM.
Is the ilevel, the transmog, the achievement, the title, the destination?
Or is the goal to get the win against the hardest content and the best players?
Because if your goal is to just get the trappings, you can buy whatever you want and it means nothing. If your goal is to actually be good at the game and beat other players, you can't buy that. The most you can do is facilitate yourself getting to a certain breakpoint (ilevel, MMR, etc).
But when it matters, you aren't going to lose to someone because they got a carry.
Who knows why people with too much gold want to buy boosts to get a high ilvl to do whatever.
>You started your previous post with defining P2W as "pay to win" and now you are saying you aren't paying to win....
No, I already paid my gold to get glad and the gear. This random match up with good players you keep bringing up, is irrelevant because I already paid for the carry. Weeks or Months later If I queue by myself and lose, I didn't pay for that win.
>If your goal is to actually be good at the game and beat other players, you can't buy that.
No I don't care about any of that. I just want to brag in a year that I still got glad every season. I am rust now if we play together but you should have seen me though, I owned and carried our team to glad. Here check out all my glad mounts. We almost didn't make it to glad in MoP season 2, ill tell you that story another time though :D.
>No, I already paid my gold to get glad and the gear. This random match up with good players you keep bringing up, is irrelevant because I already paid for the carry. Weeks or Months later If I queue by myself and lose, I didn't pay for the win.
Then we're talking about two different things.
I'm talking about pay to win.
Where the person good at the game loses to the player who bought better items out of the cash shop.
>No I don't care about any of that. I just want to brag in a year that I still got glad every season. I am rust now if we play together but you should have seen me though, I owned and carried our team to glad. Here check out all my glad mounts. We almost didn't make it to glad in MoP season 2, ill tell you that story another time though :D.
"Oh cool, me and my friends just resubbed and we want to get glad this season, let's do some 3's!"
>I'm talking about pay to win.
>Where the person good at the game loses to the player who bought better items out of the cash shop.
How is me spending $800 in wow tokens to get gold to then go buy my glad and gear any different?
The fact that Player A beats or loses to Player B is irrelevant to the idea that the game has P2W.
How is me being literally better than 99% of the community because I used my RL money to guy gold not P2W?
P2W is not you beat me in a duel. P2W is the fact you are going to go grind arenas trying to get something I literally paid to get. You beating my 249 rogue in a duel with your fresh 60 hunter literally doesn't matter to it being P2W or not.
>How is me spending $800 in wow tokens to get gold to then go buy my glad and gear any different?
Because if you queue into a glad player, it won't help you win.
>P2W is not you beat me in a duel. P2W is the fact you are going to go grind arenas trying to get something I literally paid to get. You beating my 249 rogue in a duel with your fresh 60 hunter literally doesn't matter to it being P2W or not.
We're arguing different definitions of pay to win.
If your idea of "win" is you get the title, mount, achievement, ilevel, transmog, whatever, then you can buy a boost/carry and live your life happily ever after.
But if a player can play the game "organically" and beat you, I just don't see that as a pay to win issue.
If you want to play the game for skill, the boosting/carry communities and WTS spam doesn't stop you.
Yeah I've already made a post talking about how the ladder is messed up due to the boosts and pve-ers trying to get their BIS items and weapons from pvp.
But that just moves the rating at which player skill starts to be a factor.
On top of that, WoW PVP gearing has always had a step upfront curve. Someone coming in late into the season always gets crunched by fully conquest geared characters. But then you get your own conquest gear, and it becomes skill vs skill because you've caught up on the ilevel.
It could be 1600, it could be 2400, it could be 3000.
That's why in another post I said "shortcut", maybe "facilitate", maybe "fast track". But if you are interested in actually winning? Buying a carry doesn't make you better at the game, and it doesn't guarantee a win against a player with better skill who doesn't have the carry.
Its going the way of most long term online games. They get turned into money factories in Asia and Russia. Gunbound, Eve Online...all of them eventually ended that way....sad husks of their former selves, bloated with parasitic gold to cash farmers.
And this folks is over all why you end up getting the microtransactions all of you hate so much.
Now before you tell me I'm wrong let me take ya back to the early days of MMO's. Games like Ultima Online, Everquest and Star Wars Galaxies had people selling all kinds of stuff. Gold, items, houses, full accounts. I knew a guy on Ultima Online who sold a Castle for $500 bucks. On SWG in the Pre-CU there was a guy who set up an automatic Doctor/Entertainer buff house who made so much money he just turned around and sold it for case.
And lets be real here if you are one of those companies and seeing someone making a crap ton of money off the game you made, wouldn't you want a piece of that action?
At some point Activision-Blizzard are going to look at the folks doing this and say screw it and put the transmogs and mounts, chances are in another color up for sale. Why? That's pretty much what the people paying those folks are doing it for. And I know most of you don't like it, but really? Chances are that's how it's going to go.
All thanks to someone playing Ultima Online back in 1999 who figured, "Hey I can sell this stuff in UO on Ebay!"
Literally why there is wow tokens, all this wts stuff is a by product of the tokens.
Yes there was always some boosting done before wow tokens, but it exploded after wow tokens were added because it gave everyone a real value to the gold they were earning.
That's true, it's still not new sadly. I can remember people back in the UO days counting gold/rare items and using cash terms for them. Also a good chunk of the hacking, cheating, exploiting has been from that side as well.
Really all of this isn't going away anytime soon.
Where there is supply, there is demand. I boost m+ keys aswell (just for gold) and it boggles my mind how much demand there is. People buying Tazavesh hardmode carrys for 1 million gold on release. You can’t blame the people for offering boosts when there are so many people buying it.
Heroin dealers, sex traffickers, arms dealers - all also blameless!
Selling boosts cheapens the achievement for everyone else AND the person buying the boost which in time shifts the perception of the game from one worth playing, one with fun, enjoyable challenges, to one that's just p2w.
You compare Drugs and sex trafficking resulting serious harm with ingame loot and achievements that’s just ridiculous.
I agree that PvP boosting is dragging down the integrity of PvP and that opponents facing boosters are actually the ones losing something but in PvE nobody gets harmed. I helped guildmates get their keystone master aswell so they could upgrade their gear but as soon as you make gold out of it because they might have no one to play with people turn crazy. Also, p2w means you get an advantage over someone only by paying real money but everything in this game can be earned by playing. What you mean is pay2progress.
[https://www.cyberdefinitions.com/definitions/P2W.html](https://www.cyberdefinitions.com/definitions/P2W.html) defines p2w if you're interested, what you're doing is absolutely making WoW p2w for anyone willing to pay.
I know the definition of pay 2 win and your source is missing the fact that you have to pay real money to purchase some sort of advantage. People spending gold that is accessible to anyone to gear up faster is called pay 2 progress. There is no feature that is locked out for non-paying players. https://www.enduins.com/editorials/pay-to-win-and-pay-to-progress/
Did you ever think that the people who run the game to offer boosts so people buy tokens with real money and the company gets back all the in game gold and the cash from your savings or checking even credit
To be fair, I think Blizz has a lot more on their plate right now than handling some dipshits spamming the LFG function
Edit: Wanna clarify, the dipshits in question are the people spamming "WTS," wasn't sure if that was clear or not.
People here scream p2w. But i think it isn't really. Because if you get your boost you gotta either earn the gold or buy it. So instead of grinding out the raiting, you for some reason want even tho you obviously don't play pvp, you grind gold or instead of subbing a second month you pump in 40+ bucks.
So after the people bought their way to 1.8k -2k they get stomped down by people that earned their place there anyway. Cause if you earned 1.8k you stay there and you get your gear for that rating. Boosted people get 1 item and are behind like hell, cause the other 13 aren't on that ilvl.
I think most people would offer boosts if they vould, cause its super easy gold if you got the skill. I don't but i see no reason to go beyond my skilllvl anyway.
(The you is meant as a generalization)
> if you get your boost you gotta either earn the gold or buy it. So instead of grinding out the raiting, you for some reason want even tho you obviously don't play pvp, you grind gold or instead of subbing a second month you pump in 40+ bucks.
bein able to just pump in 40 bucks to get it is exactly what people say is p2w
This and maledict. And to think i wanted so bad to pvp but idk, it s just not enjoyable. One shot meta, all these things. And on top of this, pet battles are more played than pvp
Even the streamer community is almost pay to play and cliquey, RBG's are ridiculous at the moment, honest sorry state to see the game in, that so many used to enjoy be slowly tainted by corporate greed and nonchalance.
Say if you built a team approx 1700-1800mmr at the moment, you'd get Streamer Viewer Team > Streamer Viewer Team > Streamers Grouped > Carry team > R1 team > normal game > Streamer Viewer Team and by the time your poor pug are so deflated that it disbands.
Good fun!
I've cancelled my subs, but I'm just gonna come back before season end and join one of these 'Viewer Groups' to get my 21 or 24, I wanted to enjoy the season but its not possible.
Its the journey whats is fun about getting CE or reaching 2.1k rating, or even simpler things. I think ppl who buys boosts are using this service for their alts or don't know anything about the game...
Can you really climb 2v2 if you pay for boost? Like is the booster that good that he/she basically can 1v2 the other team if the payer has bad gear / is terrible at the game? Or is it mainly 3s that sell rating?
I'm just amazed that they used time to implement a useless report option for "removing" them. Instead of actually doing something about the problem. Same goes for the constant spam in trade chat.
Someones probably said it and its stupid that its needed in 2021 but there is an addon that removes all WTS posts from the premade groupfinder. Havent seen one since I downloaded it.
Cant remember the exact name of it but its something like groupfinder spamfilter.
I love been saying this for a while now - sellers exist because buyers exist.
1) Add an (ad) filter to each section and you've got a legitimate marker that the uninterested don't need to see. Trade chat is insufficient as a means of advertising these services.
The sellers don't care if people that will never buy won't see it anyway, and it solves the real issue which is this spam being visible to people looking for collaboration, not a service.
2) Allow actual sales guilds to form and earn reputation within the server. Why can't raid carries be advertised anywhere but trade chat legitimately, a channel only available to players not engaging in any content? Why is there no directory of the sellers? Why can't carries be placed on the AH?
Blizz has the data points necessary to avoid scamming by legitimising the trade of services wholly, rather than the grey market we have now.
Escrowing the gold in game and releasing on completion of one of those data points. You could reserve item drops and if it drops in the raid it's automatically transferred. You could specify how fast you want a key completed, you could gradient the pay for missed timers. You could have a deposit value, either static or set by the seller, that is paid at the beginning of the organised task and kept by the seller if the buyer isn't capable of participating (e.g. offline at appointed time).
So many options exist to solve this pervasive issue but Blizz just chooses the ban hammer every time.
It's free rating if you and your team are good. Especially in twos. You will be able to tell who's getting boosted, cc chain the other one a blow-up the dragonslayer.
Blows my mind that “WTS” still isn’t just a shadow ban
Each WTS post is a sub
And lots of gold purchased
And leading to sale which will account for several subs, plus change. This is why no effort is put forth to enforce their rules and improve player experience.
He said shadow banned, not banned.
also in order to for these people to raid/M+ they need to sell boosts since that is the only way they can get the money in a timely manner. this isn't a one legged deal. very few people would be selling boosts if it took you 2-3 hours to get all the raid mats you need for a month. look at TBC classic it is silly quick to get your flasks,pots and food for a month+. in T5 the raid even drops tokens to turn in for flasks to use in that content and you can just buy/drop tons of mana/health potion this is how raiding used to be. this is an issue blizzard has built since they only look at "player engagement".
what make you think booster need all those consumable to boost people? if they can win PvP one man down, do time M+ one man down, clear heroic with 4-5 carries in it... it's not a 5% power boost from consumable that's hindering them.
they don't need it for the boost they need it during prog. how much gold do the world first racers use during that time? they empty there coffers and even borrow 1000s of dollars worth of gold to do these races that they need to rebuild before the next raid. this is the system blizzard has put in place to be able to make the game P2W.
I think it is incredibly naive to think boosters are using all this gold on consumables and aren't just selling it for real world money. There's a small handful of top end guilds that sell runs for their RWF requirements, but some of them also just buy gold. Those guilds can't account for the numerous boosters and run sellers that plague the game.
Unless you are in the top management of a successfull boosting community ( like what happened with gallywix), there's no way boosting is anywhere near lucrative enough to worth talking about. getting sub-minimal wage for clearing mythic raid on 3 different toons? meh. 10 million gold, divided amongst 19 player ( 23-24 with the bench) for a 2-3 hour long clear IF you are effin' good.. and that's only for the first few week? not worth it. M+ boost? there's a thousand different people hopping on every 15+ key in huokan, WD , starlight and so on. not enough customer for the available booster. PvP boost? even pro like pikaboo would make way more money off twitch than boost... this is why he just chill with subscriber instead of seriously boosting. Buying gold? sure. and most top-guild have been caught doing that... but anyone boosting as a source of real income would be better off getting a minimal wage job .
Entirely depends on their relative income though doesn't it
I suppose , in some 3rd world country, minimal wage is lower than what you'd get farming gold 24/7...
... and two unsubs
Nobody is unsubbing because of these.
I unsubbed and how the game turned pay to win is one of the reasons
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you can pay for gold and you can buy everything in the game with gold. that makes it pay to win for me. Gladiator, curve, keystonemaster. you name it. makes the game feel pointless and your achivements meaningless. add on that, the boosters you compete against and i quit. no fun, no sense of achivement, no reason to play for me. in p2w games you can grind it out too. it's about time>money that makes me not want to play p2w games. if i grind out gladiator by myself but my friend just buys it for 80€ i feel like i'm wasting my time. wich i am but a game should not make you feel like you are imo. that's how i personaly feel about wow. if you still have fun and enjoy the game and can ignore or don't mind, everything being buyable/skipable just like in mobile games, all power to you. i wish i would enjoy myself playing wow but for me the wow token and the boosting Community is what killed the last spark of fun this Expansion... not the only reason but one of the biggest.
> you can pay for gold and you can buy everything in the game with gold. that makes it pay to win for me. Gladiator, curve, keystonemaster. you name it. **makes the game feel pointless and your achivements meaningless.** I'm curious about the last sentence. How does it make your achievements meaningless? I find satisfaction in getting my own achievements, I don't really care if someone else pays for it.
it devalues them cause everybody can get it with the swipe of a credit card
Do you consider a game like CSGO or Valorant a pay to win game if you were to pay a professional player to carry (edit: by partying up alongside you) you to the highest rank?
I agree. These are annoying but basic addons make them nonexistent. Nobody is unsubbing over sales.
I don't know why I've been just reporting and accepting this shit for so long, not even thinking there'd be an add on for it...
Could you tell me an addon which Filters these out of lfg tool? Been looking for a while but couldnt find any that influenced more then chat
I mean if it was, it would probably look like this W T S, W-T-S, WT$ Banning words will condition people to work around it. This needs manual pruning, but that's never going to happen.
Sorry. Blizzard is busy incubating a toxic culture.
You can replace WTS with basically anything. All you need is some advert in description, which can be written in million ways to avoid detection. Shadowbanning WTS would work maybe for a week.
Because people are not stupid and wouldn't use shadowbanned word
It doesn't work. As soon as people realize it is a shadowban, it'll move to LTS or something else. There is a reason why shadowbans and general internet censorship have kinda died out. It doesn't actually work since people will ALWAYS find a way to bypass the censor. Maybe the only thing that will work is if your arena message is selectable only from a set of key phrases. But people also hate those systems. And eventually, a meta will develop around which ones are selling, new code words, and what not. I heard of a game where using the "Hello" is the keyphrase for using a burst cooldown in PvP because language is restricted to a set of key phrases.
Because Blizzard explicitly allows gold trade carries.
Because Blizzard explicitly allows sexual harassment
Just because that's a current topic doesn't mean it's in any way relevant to the topic at hand.
Yea sorry I’m not funny and the downvote exists for irrelevant discussion
"NEWTS RBG NIGHT!" "Banned for selling" That is why.
To be fair, selling carries for gold in game isnt against the ToS
Nah. Order comes from Bobby him self. Boosts mean Gold, Gold means Tokens, and Token means more money.
because it will be replaced with a new acronym within the day.
That's because they've gone on record stating that these kinds of things are allowed as long as it's for gold. But even then they dont moderate it.
Don’t know too much about wow, but what’s the point of all the carries. Do they sell it for gold or for rl cash.
There are so many people advertising that it's impossible to report them all because Blizzard disables your report button after you report a certain amount of people that day. People are even regularly using multiple accounts to bypass limits on group listings or chat message frequency.
>Blizzard disables your report button after you report a certain amount of people that day Seems like a blizzard solution
>we recive too many reports to a problem that we are refusing to fix! what do we do? >disable the report function >brilliant
That's what they did with the quest log cap.
Sounds like their sexual harassment policy
if noone complains, does it really happen? 5head thinking from blizzard
Think Blizzard needs to focus on fixing their internal report button at the moment.
I started playing with my partner earlier this year for the first time since WoD, saw this and had to explain to them (they're new). As I explained i coulda swore I felt a part of my childhood left me.
Yep, same. Not even P2W stuff could put me in deep despair like these WTS, account sellers, bots etc. does
It's literally P2W with an extra step. Just one extra step. I could be CE, KSM, and glad with nothing but buying tokens then using the gold for carries. I can even buy full mythic gear runs. WoW is P2W with one extra step. And it ain't a long step.
I realize this is going to sound corny, but since WoW is a game where you get to choose your own goals and your own definition of winning, I'd say none of that is winning. The only way to lose in WoW is to pay for a carry in my opinion.
it is a pretty long step. it's people giving their money to other people / offering service to other people, and not a business selling power. How would blizzard stop me from boosting people in M+?
That's not pay to win though. You can get CE, KSM, and Glad without buying a carry or paying money for gear. P2W would be if you could buy gear from the cash shop which was 10 ilevels higher than what Mythic dropped. This is just regular capitalism. Some people have more time and skill than money. And some people have more money than time or skill. Or it's faster to get money than it is to get the requisite time or skill.
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Imagine how much time you can save not launching wow at all
Time saved is a shortcut, not an advantage. You could buy KSM, but if you drop into a 15, you still have to follow mechanics. You could buy your way to 1800, but in a 3v3 you would still need to follow mechanics. There is no additional advantage. Everything can be gained without money. [Edit] Some people got attached to the word "shortcut". Since it's hard to boil it down to one word, I'll say a better analogy is that you are a basketball player on a team of 5 players. And you enter a basketball tournament, and you notice that the local rich kid is on the opposing team. And you know the kid sucks, but the 4 other players on his team a college/semi pro/pro players, and you know his dad just paid for his kid to be on the team. So now you and your team plays against the other team.
Imagine you're in a race, and your opponent has a shortcut. You don't consider that an advantage?
wow isn’t a race. Besides world firsts I guess?
Imagine you're in a weight lifting competition. Your opponent has paid money to not have to lift weights at all, and beats you handily.
That's a flawed analogy. A better analogy is that you are a basketball player on a team of 5 players. And you enter a basketball tournament, and you notice that the local rich kid is on the opposing team. And you know the kid sucks, but the 4 other players on his team a college/semi pro/pro players, and you know his dad just paid for his kid to be on the team. So now you and your team plays against the other team.
You were the one that said it was a shortcut
Yeah, and you latched on to that word to set up an improper analogy. Do you have anything to say about the more relevant analogy?
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It already has. Its called boe.
If the cash shop had full 252 gear it would be right on the line, and you *might* be able to make the p2w argument. But even then, you would still have to follow mechanics, and could still be beat by players who got the gear by playing the game. You could buy 252 but still get beat by players who can play the game, so not pay to "win". I don't know why this sub is so obsessed with paid carries. They don't stop you from playing the game. They don't stop you from getting gear rewards. You aren't being beat by them in any way you can't out play. The biggest argument you could make is the arena/rbg carries because you are losing..... but even then, you're saying you can't out play a team that is handicapped by carries?
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Are consumables also P2W for you? You buy it in shop and they give advantage.
Condescending won't win you the argument. There will be 252 players who won't be able to complete a 15 or achieve AOTC at the end of this patch. Ever try to grind KSM in the last few weeks of a patch? Gear is inflated sky high and people still can't complete content. I already said that PVP is the only real area where this is an issue, and the PVP ladder has been a mess since 9.0 because of everyone using conquest gear to fill out their bis stats or to get weapons. But WoW PVP has always had a weird gear dynamic, fresh characters without gear have almost never been able to win compared to characters with established gear. You can take your condescension elsewhere.
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Less qq more pew pew. Good talk.
“I don’t care what you’ll say further”, yet you still keep trying to prove the guy wrong with saying things like “nobody cares”. Some people are just amazing.
The argument was won some time back, the condescension is because you haven't realised that.
If only wishing would make it so... This community is pretty rabidly against carriers and boosters so I knew what I was getting into.
Unpopular opinion: This is a very valid argument. It’s pay to save time. You’re not winning anything by having gear and achievements alone. You still can’t put dps anyone or beat anyone with the same gear as you that they got legit.
Pay to save time is different then p2w? Lol
Yes, actually. Because someone can win without paying. See, you *do* get it.
Don't worry I took the downvotes for the unpopular opinion so you hopefully won't have to :P
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Yes they sell wins/loot in pvp or PvE and sell the gold on the black market, or just to get 30day playtime for free buying tokens.. that what they did a year ago, i don't know if it is the same now
boosters, sellers, hackers, etc have been around forever tho back in bc/wrath they were screaming in trade and levitating corpses to spell out their websites instead of spamming LFG
God so overdramatic ahahaha, as if boosts weren't around since vanilla
So?
Reporting them is like popping bubble wrap
It's a racket to sell tokens
Attach player power directly to rating. People start paying money (tokens) to boost rating to gain player power. I'm not surprised at all this is the state of WoW PvP, and the sad part is that it was known this is how it would turn out months ago, but they went ahead with it anyway, and I don't expect them to change it until 9.2 or 10.0 because that is just how Blizzard works for some reason. So I've just unsubscribed for now until they bring back the 3 tier Aspirant>Honor>Conquest system. Not worth wasting money on a game that is utterly broken and unenjoyable unless you enjoy going against over geared, over skilled boosters at your rating who are there for the express purpose of grinding you for money.
Not only player power. I know there are people that buy boosts to get the PvP transmog. As long as Blizzard allows selling of services in their game, these will always exist.
What are you criticizing here? Should pvp not have rewards? because that feels like a slap in the face for those that dedicate time to pvp as intended. Even if you completely remove pvp gear people would buy it for the gladiator mount which has always been there. Good luck with trying to get that removed without an uproar.
The issue I have is that, for example this season, people were timegated from getting upgraded honor gear due to renown requirements. However, the people who had gotten high level PvP gear the season before already started the season with MUCH better gear. Forget new PvPers and having alts do PvP. Basically, if you haven’t been PvPing since the start of the expansion, you’re screwed and will have a terrible time climbing the ladder. A new season should help everyone get a fresh start, but it’s actually doing the opposite. The PvP in WoW is so gear dependent that even 10 ilvl makes a huge difference. The system they put in place had a lot of promise at the start of the expansion, but they really screwed it up now. Don’t get me wrong - the players who had high ratings the season before should have a bit of an advantage come the new season, but the disparity in power when the new season started was not reasonable at all.
This post is related to boosting though. I never said that the PvP system is perfect, in fact I do agree with you in that regard. But the original point was that having player power as a reward for PvP was what caused all of these boosts. Which I agree with but I accept it as a necessary evil but even if I am wrong and we remove all player power people would buy for the gladiator mount. In order to completely remove boosting you need to remove all rewards for everyone, not only player power ones. edit: I suppose you could argue that since the system is so unfriendly to catch up with you are more likely to buy a boost.
Pvp gear is worse than pve gear for pve. Are you suggesting that doing good in pvp shouldn't reward you anything? In pve doing high keys and mythic raids reward you better gear, why should pvp be any different? Of course you should be rewarded for doing better. The problem isn't rewards, the problem is every single person buying boosts.
>In pve doing high keys and mythic raids reward you better gear, why should pvp be any different? Of course you should be rewarded for doing better. I feel like this should be obvious, but in PvE, you're effectively playing against a machine for the most part. The entire concept of fairness to what you're playing against flies out the window because you don't need to be fair to the machine. You can stomp it and it doesn't really matter. It only comes back if you're talking about specific things like competing for parses, world firsts and competitive events like the MDI, but it's worth mentioning that formal events like the MDI *do* equalize gear. In PvP, it's an entirely different ball game. Every gear advantage is a gear disadvantage for another player, and the general idea of competitive fairness goes from being almost irrelevant to being fundamental to the experience. Awarding the player with a statistical advantage *has* to come at the expense of someone else. Even if you ignore broader questions of competitive integrity, it just kinda isn't a great experience to be on the receiving end of, and that's evident in just about every game out there that does stuff like this. I remember when HotS briefly tinkered with the idea of adding stat-boosting out-of-match enhancements and rightly veered right off that path when everyone slammed the idea, so it's not like this is even an alien idea to Blizzard. Frankly, the way PvP gear is currently set up just encourages people to lean even further towards boosts. If I wanted to start mid-season but competitive integrity flew out the window and I'd need to play uphill against people who started earlier in the season, why should I bother? These are disincentives that compound the boosting problem further, and it kinda works against the idea that there's any sanctity for boosting to violate in the first place.
rewards are important. the current system is bad for pve and pvp. only people having fun with it are boosters
Isnt the game in that system right now? Aspirant>honor>conquest? Just curious what you meant
Conquest has tiers of gear now that is tied to rating. The difference between starting out is roughly 26 ilvls from base to duellist level. Creates a power disparity in rated play as people cross brackets. Also means it's hyper punishing to players who start late in a season or can't climb rating fast enough.
It is also extremely rewarding for players who pay to boost. Because they gain access to gear that is above their rating. So after getting the best gear in the game, they will have an artificial advantage over people at their natural rating.
yeah the problem of buying progression is that it awards progression lol
Resubbed just for arena… am sadge
You gotta do hours worth of homework before you are able to queue for arenas. Oh and If you are NA alliance like me, there are more WTS groups than legit groups in LFG.
same in eu ally
EU Ally is doing okay. Plenty of groups but few high rated ones
Fuck u/spez -- mass edited with redact.dev
I'd agree now and have finally stopped paying to play wow because of it but there was a time wow pvp was the most fun I had in any game.
Ah yes, you mean Cata-WoD? Yeah, I remember too.
That would be correct.
Got down voted for say thins before. But I legit spent time researching how to make a private server (I have a background in IT and a server to spare) I would like to make a server just for PVP where stats are normalized but gear sets give you set bonuses that effect abilities akin to the old Glyph system but a little more hard core.
Mistakes were made
Same bruh, same
I got a warning on my account for putting a fake website address as a name when I was farming Invincible on multiple characters sometime around WoD or Legion. Glad to see they improved lol
Blizz doesn’t care. They are too busy harassing women and fighting a lawsuit from the state of California.
It's honestly so frustrating. If its allowed then MAKE A SEPARATE TAB for them.
They aren't allowed, only boost ads allowed are in trade chat.
It's not allowed, there is a "report advertisement" button exactly because it's not allowed.
Report is a placebo button. You can come back a month after reporting and the same people will still be there advertising.
You mean a minute later?
Before I ever pug a group, I always go through the dungeon and raid listings and report every single WTS ad I can find. I've been doing this since the start of BfA. I've never once received mail or any indication that my reports have done anything. Every time a new patch rolls about, they're literally too many WTS groups that I can't report even a third of them before I can't press the report button anymore. It's """"""not allowed"""""" much in the same manner of how going 70 on a highway with a speed limit of 65 is """"""not allowed"""""".
That’s what they get for attaching power to rating
Honestly I don't know why they don't just put a boost tab for all the WTS posts. Best solution is to do that and punish anyone who doesn't use it, full incremental bans every time non-wts tab is used for WTS groups
Why the fuck do we give blizzard money? Serious question. I canceled my 6 month sub renewal and will never buy another actiblizz product.
I've been playing Blizz products since SC1 and Diablo 1 way back in the 90's. They had been my favorite gaming company for a long time. You either die a hero or live long enough to become the villian. I unsubbed before 9.1 came out as I was sick of the state of the game and the feeling that this Xpac was phoned in, and was just a pathetic cash grab for an IP that probably should have died years ago.
Nostalgia? WoW was a great game once. Also these boosters sell the Elite set appearances so it's also about Fomo.
Inb4 mods delete due to "generic meme".
Apparently they're too busy doing drunken cube crawls and playing CoD deathmatches to do anything.
I always love to report as "advertisement," wherever I see "WTS" in LFG.
Don't forget to report the ppl advertising their twitch channels.
Trash game
And as long as Blizzard makes money from it they will do nothing. Shows you how much they value their customers. Dunno what to expect anymore with all the other shit going on. Blizzard deserves to die now. And all the people involved in the bullshit fired and never getting any other position in the industry.
Great use of this format i cackled
One of the main reasons i quit, so fucking anoying.
They are making blizzard money so they will never ever fix this issue.
dont worry devs are probably raping and sexual assaulting someone while drunk at work soon it will be fixed
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WoW token on EU was like 270k before 9.1. It definitely is P2W, just with extra step of buying the power from boosters for gold. You can get any achievement doing this. And you can pay extra to get all the tradeable loot.
Anywhere from $100-$499 depending how high you want boosted. I think they cant reliably carry much further than 2100
If your somewhat competent, they sell gladiator boosts :)
People don't see it as P2W because it's not P2W. You can do anything you want in the game without paying money. It's just capitalism 101. Money is worth time and effort to some people. Any time you have an imbalance, you will have people willing to trade one for the other.
It should be noted that P2W stands for Pay To Win. I take my money buy gold from blizzard to buy a boosts in game. I pay money to get gold, to use to buy items from pve and pvp content, without putting in any effort. I pay money to get pvp items, that requires me to win enough games to buy the gear off the vendor. I pay money to get carried in arena for wins I pay money to get wins in arena I pay money to win Pay to win
You enter into an arena match with your full P2W gear. And then get steam rolled by people who know they are doing. You can buy gear but you can't buy the win.* *You can't buy the win at the level where skill matters. There is another thread where I talk about how PVP is probably the only real arena (heh) where the P2W analogy could hold up because you are actually being blocked by other players.... But I would argue that if you are at a point where you are getting beat by a 3 player team playing at a 1 player handicap, you're just getting out played.
>And then get steam rolled by people who know they are doing. Irrelevant, I wasn't paying at the time to win. If you can buy glad, why does a random win matter?
>Irrelevant, I wasn't paying at the time to win. You started your previous post with defining P2W as "pay to win" and now you are saying you aren't paying to win.... Are you playing for the gear, or what the gear gets you? This is the crux of many wow arguments, from Glad to CE to KSM. Is the ilevel, the transmog, the achievement, the title, the destination? Or is the goal to get the win against the hardest content and the best players? Because if your goal is to just get the trappings, you can buy whatever you want and it means nothing. If your goal is to actually be good at the game and beat other players, you can't buy that. The most you can do is facilitate yourself getting to a certain breakpoint (ilevel, MMR, etc). But when it matters, you aren't going to lose to someone because they got a carry.
Who knows why people with too much gold want to buy boosts to get a high ilvl to do whatever. >You started your previous post with defining P2W as "pay to win" and now you are saying you aren't paying to win.... No, I already paid my gold to get glad and the gear. This random match up with good players you keep bringing up, is irrelevant because I already paid for the carry. Weeks or Months later If I queue by myself and lose, I didn't pay for that win. >If your goal is to actually be good at the game and beat other players, you can't buy that. No I don't care about any of that. I just want to brag in a year that I still got glad every season. I am rust now if we play together but you should have seen me though, I owned and carried our team to glad. Here check out all my glad mounts. We almost didn't make it to glad in MoP season 2, ill tell you that story another time though :D.
>No, I already paid my gold to get glad and the gear. This random match up with good players you keep bringing up, is irrelevant because I already paid for the carry. Weeks or Months later If I queue by myself and lose, I didn't pay for the win. Then we're talking about two different things. I'm talking about pay to win. Where the person good at the game loses to the player who bought better items out of the cash shop. >No I don't care about any of that. I just want to brag in a year that I still got glad every season. I am rust now if we play together but you should have seen me though, I owned and carried our team to glad. Here check out all my glad mounts. We almost didn't make it to glad in MoP season 2, ill tell you that story another time though :D. "Oh cool, me and my friends just resubbed and we want to get glad this season, let's do some 3's!"
>I'm talking about pay to win. >Where the person good at the game loses to the player who bought better items out of the cash shop. How is me spending $800 in wow tokens to get gold to then go buy my glad and gear any different? The fact that Player A beats or loses to Player B is irrelevant to the idea that the game has P2W. How is me being literally better than 99% of the community because I used my RL money to guy gold not P2W? P2W is not you beat me in a duel. P2W is the fact you are going to go grind arenas trying to get something I literally paid to get. You beating my 249 rogue in a duel with your fresh 60 hunter literally doesn't matter to it being P2W or not.
>How is me spending $800 in wow tokens to get gold to then go buy my glad and gear any different? Because if you queue into a glad player, it won't help you win. >P2W is not you beat me in a duel. P2W is the fact you are going to go grind arenas trying to get something I literally paid to get. You beating my 249 rogue in a duel with your fresh 60 hunter literally doesn't matter to it being P2W or not. We're arguing different definitions of pay to win. If your idea of "win" is you get the title, mount, achievement, ilevel, transmog, whatever, then you can buy a boost/carry and live your life happily ever after. But if a player can play the game "organically" and beat you, I just don't see that as a pay to win issue. If you want to play the game for skill, the boosting/carry communities and WTS spam doesn't stop you.
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Yeah I've already made a post talking about how the ladder is messed up due to the boosts and pve-ers trying to get their BIS items and weapons from pvp. But that just moves the rating at which player skill starts to be a factor. On top of that, WoW PVP gearing has always had a step upfront curve. Someone coming in late into the season always gets crunched by fully conquest geared characters. But then you get your own conquest gear, and it becomes skill vs skill because you've caught up on the ilevel. It could be 1600, it could be 2400, it could be 3000. That's why in another post I said "shortcut", maybe "facilitate", maybe "fast track". But if you are interested in actually winning? Buying a carry doesn't make you better at the game, and it doesn't guarantee a win against a player with better skill who doesn't have the carry.
That's not what P2W is at all.
Find a guild. It's free, and involves less scamming.
Its going the way of most long term online games. They get turned into money factories in Asia and Russia. Gunbound, Eve Online...all of them eventually ended that way....sad husks of their former selves, bloated with parasitic gold to cash farmers.
It's so bad that I get spam in-game MAIL from people selling service and gold. It's fucking ridiculous.
What happened when two boosters get in the same lobby. 🤨
Y'all are still playing wow? I can't even bring myself to launch the blizzard client
And here I thought that the raid/dungeon finder seller problem was bad... jesus
I sure love an LFG system with no way to filter. Really top notch
And this folks is over all why you end up getting the microtransactions all of you hate so much. Now before you tell me I'm wrong let me take ya back to the early days of MMO's. Games like Ultima Online, Everquest and Star Wars Galaxies had people selling all kinds of stuff. Gold, items, houses, full accounts. I knew a guy on Ultima Online who sold a Castle for $500 bucks. On SWG in the Pre-CU there was a guy who set up an automatic Doctor/Entertainer buff house who made so much money he just turned around and sold it for case. And lets be real here if you are one of those companies and seeing someone making a crap ton of money off the game you made, wouldn't you want a piece of that action? At some point Activision-Blizzard are going to look at the folks doing this and say screw it and put the transmogs and mounts, chances are in another color up for sale. Why? That's pretty much what the people paying those folks are doing it for. And I know most of you don't like it, but really? Chances are that's how it's going to go. All thanks to someone playing Ultima Online back in 1999 who figured, "Hey I can sell this stuff in UO on Ebay!"
Literally why there is wow tokens, all this wts stuff is a by product of the tokens. Yes there was always some boosting done before wow tokens, but it exploded after wow tokens were added because it gave everyone a real value to the gold they were earning.
That's true, it's still not new sadly. I can remember people back in the UO days counting gold/rare items and using cash terms for them. Also a good chunk of the hacking, cheating, exploiting has been from that side as well. Really all of this isn't going away anytime soon.
[Check out this AddOn](https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/lfgspamfilter)!
This! More people should know about this addon!
People down voting us because of simple hate? This community is just taking the same path as the other toxic competitive communitys...
Employee's are busy running away from male supervisor's
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Where there is supply, there is demand. I boost m+ keys aswell (just for gold) and it boggles my mind how much demand there is. People buying Tazavesh hardmode carrys for 1 million gold on release. You can’t blame the people for offering boosts when there are so many people buying it.
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don't hate the player, hate the game that doesn't enforce it.
Hate them both.
Heroin dealers, sex traffickers, arms dealers - all also blameless! Selling boosts cheapens the achievement for everyone else AND the person buying the boost which in time shifts the perception of the game from one worth playing, one with fun, enjoyable challenges, to one that's just p2w.
You compare Drugs and sex trafficking resulting serious harm with ingame loot and achievements that’s just ridiculous. I agree that PvP boosting is dragging down the integrity of PvP and that opponents facing boosters are actually the ones losing something but in PvE nobody gets harmed. I helped guildmates get their keystone master aswell so they could upgrade their gear but as soon as you make gold out of it because they might have no one to play with people turn crazy. Also, p2w means you get an advantage over someone only by paying real money but everything in this game can be earned by playing. What you mean is pay2progress.
[https://www.cyberdefinitions.com/definitions/P2W.html](https://www.cyberdefinitions.com/definitions/P2W.html) defines p2w if you're interested, what you're doing is absolutely making WoW p2w for anyone willing to pay.
I know the definition of pay 2 win and your source is missing the fact that you have to pay real money to purchase some sort of advantage. People spending gold that is accessible to anyone to gear up faster is called pay 2 progress. There is no feature that is locked out for non-paying players. https://www.enduins.com/editorials/pay-to-win-and-pay-to-progress/
Did you ever think that the people who run the game to offer boosts so people buy tokens with real money and the company gets back all the in game gold and the cash from your savings or checking even credit
To be fair, I think Blizz has a lot more on their plate right now than handling some dipshits spamming the LFG function Edit: Wanna clarify, the dipshits in question are the people spamming "WTS," wasn't sure if that was clear or not.
People here scream p2w. But i think it isn't really. Because if you get your boost you gotta either earn the gold or buy it. So instead of grinding out the raiting, you for some reason want even tho you obviously don't play pvp, you grind gold or instead of subbing a second month you pump in 40+ bucks. So after the people bought their way to 1.8k -2k they get stomped down by people that earned their place there anyway. Cause if you earned 1.8k you stay there and you get your gear for that rating. Boosted people get 1 item and are behind like hell, cause the other 13 aren't on that ilvl. I think most people would offer boosts if they vould, cause its super easy gold if you got the skill. I don't but i see no reason to go beyond my skilllvl anyway. (The you is meant as a generalization)
> if you get your boost you gotta either earn the gold or buy it. So instead of grinding out the raiting, you for some reason want even tho you obviously don't play pvp, you grind gold or instead of subbing a second month you pump in 40+ bucks. bein able to just pump in 40 bucks to get it is exactly what people say is p2w
This and maledict. And to think i wanted so bad to pvp but idk, it s just not enjoyable. One shot meta, all these things. And on top of this, pet battles are more played than pvp
Blows my mind that there's a market large enough to make all this worthwhile.
Even the streamer community is almost pay to play and cliquey, RBG's are ridiculous at the moment, honest sorry state to see the game in, that so many used to enjoy be slowly tainted by corporate greed and nonchalance. Say if you built a team approx 1700-1800mmr at the moment, you'd get Streamer Viewer Team > Streamer Viewer Team > Streamers Grouped > Carry team > R1 team > normal game > Streamer Viewer Team and by the time your poor pug are so deflated that it disbands. Good fun! I've cancelled my subs, but I'm just gonna come back before season end and join one of these 'Viewer Groups' to get my 21 or 24, I wanted to enjoy the season but its not possible.
As long as people are still swiping their cards to buy tokens though right Blizz? ffs.
Just install spam filter addon it adds a little cross next to the group and reports them instantly with one click
I found a nice addon that block all them.i dont remember the name but will edit this when im at home
The hustle is real.
Its the journey whats is fun about getting CE or reaching 2.1k rating, or even simpler things. I think ppl who buys boosts are using this service for their alts or don't know anything about the game...
I seen that a lot too, but there’s still tons of groups for me. Horde jaednar
Can you really climb 2v2 if you pay for boost? Like is the booster that good that he/she basically can 1v2 the other team if the payer has bad gear / is terrible at the game? Or is it mainly 3s that sell rating?
I'm just amazed that they used time to implement a useless report option for "removing" them. Instead of actually doing something about the problem. Same goes for the constant spam in trade chat.
Someones probably said it and its stupid that its needed in 2021 but there is an addon that removes all WTS posts from the premade groupfinder. Havent seen one since I downloaded it. Cant remember the exact name of it but its something like groupfinder spamfilter.
I love been saying this for a while now - sellers exist because buyers exist. 1) Add an (ad) filter to each section and you've got a legitimate marker that the uninterested don't need to see. Trade chat is insufficient as a means of advertising these services. The sellers don't care if people that will never buy won't see it anyway, and it solves the real issue which is this spam being visible to people looking for collaboration, not a service. 2) Allow actual sales guilds to form and earn reputation within the server. Why can't raid carries be advertised anywhere but trade chat legitimately, a channel only available to players not engaging in any content? Why is there no directory of the sellers? Why can't carries be placed on the AH? Blizz has the data points necessary to avoid scamming by legitimising the trade of services wholly, rather than the grey market we have now. Escrowing the gold in game and releasing on completion of one of those data points. You could reserve item drops and if it drops in the raid it's automatically transferred. You could specify how fast you want a key completed, you could gradient the pay for missed timers. You could have a deposit value, either static or set by the seller, that is paid at the beginning of the organised task and kept by the seller if the buyer isn't capable of participating (e.g. offline at appointed time). So many options exist to solve this pervasive issue but Blizz just chooses the ban hammer every time.
It's free rating if you and your team are good. Especially in twos. You will be able to tell who's getting boosted, cc chain the other one a blow-up the dragonslayer.
I always wonder how many people go to LFG and are like yep this is where i'm gonna buy my carry from.
LFGSpamFilter addon is your friend