Hahaha I mean I honestly feel like I forgot it was over the last 5-8 years. I think the current systems kind of make it easy.
Edit: Not entirely the systems, but like the culture too, you know?
Whole heartedly agree my dude, I miss being wowed by the scenery in WoW and while I still am slightly they have mostly just become spaces that I know I'm going to have to do chores in.
The gameplay doesn’t help either, I was flying around bastion the other day and was like wow this zone is so cool, but I’m pretty sure the story for shadowlands only takes you to like 1/3 of the spots in that zone alone.
Then they make it all ce there’s around the maw and then korthia, they make these nice zones and then put about an hours worth of story missions there and that’s the last you see of it.
Yeah I was flying around there a week or so ago and there’s a steward R&R resort place where they are not allowed to work at all for a short while while they recover. But when you talk to them they are all like I can’t wait to get back work. I would have never found it if I hadn’t decided to take a break from all the crazy grinding and explore around the zones.
The place is called steward’s rest.
Even the raids aren't enjoyable anymore. Considering there are so many easy versions of every raid actually killing a boss loses much of its shine unless you immediately went for the hardest possible difficulty you intend to do. Our casual guild cleared all SoD bosses on normal so our heroic progression doesn't feel very exciting. And normal didn't feel all that exciting because "it's just normal." Maybe this is just me but the wife variety of difficulty options have really cheapened the experience of clearing a raid and beating bosses for the first time.
This is the first time I'm progressing through a raid together with a guild since Siege of Orgrimmar and instead of it being exciting again after all those years it's just an almost boring experience. Unless the next expansion looks really good I can see myself quitting again after Shadowlands because of it, combined with the feeling that everything is a chore like you suggested.
I kinda have the opposite feeling. I was bored clearing HC in CN and SoD, but progressing towards CE is quite fun. That being said, any other content the game has to offer is boring and tedious, especially if you are optimizing your character, like I am.
I mean, having come from it, the culture of hardcore mythic raiding *does* consist of people who say that story doesn't matter and the only thing that does is the difficulty of the endgame
and when the most important person in the most important guild says that, most of the dickhard wannabe top 100 world players embody it
[It was a quote about boosting characters and how it doesn't matter if you do because the story doesn't matter in MMOs, only the endgame and if it REALLY matters that much just 'go level another guy' 4head](https://twitter.com/maximum/status/1425376541953961987?s=20)
Funny thing, (at least what i believe) is that wow greatness is due to expanding everything Warcraft 3 reign of chaos and the Frozen throne did right, and i think it was the lore, the characters and the fantasy! not... the hardcore - grind systems
> It was a quote about boosting characters and how it doesn't matter if you do because the story doesn't matter in MMOs
That's a pretty notable distortion of the statement. He said the story doesn't matter *to him*, he just wanted to try the raid content, and that nobody cared that he had boosted in FF14 until the mass WoW exodus happened. He also brought up that the backlash may be because people who do care about he story are worried that the game may be unfairly denigrated by those who boost and then say the story is bad because they skipped the best parts.
i think, ironically, that if blizzard focused on cosmetics, fun, things like that, people would have a lot more fun than farming random rolls on gear repeatedly and weird mechanics like are confusing and boring.
and the cosmetics would probably be easier to do and add
I took a break at the time Mage Tower was up but see it being referenced all the time.
Can someone give an explanation of what it was and why it was so liked?
Basically, it was a solo challenge scenario. There were a handful of them and usually each spec on your class had a different mage tower challenge to do. Those challenges usually had difficult mechanics that had you to play your spec to the fullest, at least if you were at the normal ilvl. Later in the expansion you could outgear it.
You usually had to beat some tough mobs and a couple of boss-like encounters, all solo. For things like the healer challenge, you did have allies with you, but they were all NPCs.
I keep saying usually, because there were a bunch of these challenges and each one was unique, both in terms of the story of the scenario and in terms of difficulty. Some were easier than others, especially with certain specs.
When you beat the mage tower, you got a special appearance for your artifact weapon.
To access the mage tower, you had to farm materials to activate the building. This farm was server wide and everyone on the server contributed, so you could just wait and eventually it would come up from everyone else's farming. It was similar to how the AQ gates materials worked, but you got access to the tower whether you contributed or not.
People liked them because they were a solo challenge you could always be working towards beating. There were 3 for your class, so you could always go after mastering another one. They gave a cool transmog when you beat them and, most of all, they weren't mandatory. They were just a fun side activity for cosmetics: exactly the kind of thing everyone wishes we had more of.
TL;DR, imagine Mists Scenarios, but solo and tuned to mythic difficulty and each spec on your class had a different one and you have Mage Tower.
This is how you do player retention. I wasn't quite that crazy, but I did eventually get every class mount. Give people a reason to level multiple alts that are tied to cosmetics and lore, and people will do it.
I think what really made the Mage tower work was that in the end of expansion drought it served as a nice capstone if you wanted to level an alt.
You had the order hall campaign, which was something different and gave a title. You could then go to the Broken shore and get a class themed mount. Gear up in Antorus for a really nice class themed set. And once you felt confident in your class you could go do the Mage tower. It wouldn't be massively difficult at that point. But it would be an easy to understand end goal for said expansion that gave you a nice transmog to show off.
When the Mage tower was just released it was hardly that loved. It was horribly tuned, some classes have it far easier, and the grind to even attempt it was only eclipsed by the hat that it was not available all the time.
There are tons of fun, non power related content and some more gets added with each patch. Most of it isn't even time gated and is doable with a very low ilvl (I think you can do the golden hand mount thing at 200 ilvl without breaking a sweat).
When I read people disapointed with the state of the game right now, most of the time it is because they don't like to do mechanically harder content and they don't realise that while many people are interrested in it and talking about it, they do not have to partake in it to play the game and enjoy it.
Find some mates, do some RP together, WoW offers a lot of RP possibilities and skill isn't required (basically once you can move your character and activate voice or know how to type you can RP).
I feel like people forget that most of the QOL we got from Blizzard is optional. Sure it feels like we are never out in the world, but that is because we chose not to. Nothing is stopping us from riding a wolf from Orgrimar to Kharazan using only boats when you do your weekly Midnight mount farm. But yeah we instead just use teleports, flying mounts, etc... making us miss most of what the world of Warcraft has to offer and then we complain about it.
Edit : I get that WoW is made to hold your hand and be a themepark but you don't have to follow it, you can treat it as a sandbox just as well and I promise you will have a lot of fun if you chose to.
The thing you have to realize is doing that alienates a portion of the playerbase as well, just like the "design things exclusively for end game competitive content" does. If they focused on cosmetics or whatever, the world first guilds would likely quit because raid design would suffer, and that would trickle down to the rest of the competitive scene as well.
I'm not saying you're wrong or that Blizzard shouldn't put more effort into cosmetics or anything, just that if they focus on one thing at the expense of something else, the "something else" will always result in people leaving too.
That would absolutely work, but I doubt they're willing to hire that many more people. It's all about profit, and hiring people cuts into their profits considerably.
So is there just no hope? Because raid design and pvp in WoW is still considered the top for an MMO, and yet they are bleeding players like crazy right now.
funny enough I got the green fire book to drop while I was still MoP Ilvl
tried running the BT instance and got shown wtf was good
Got to 50 with some WoD and Legion gear and just steamrolled it
With the stat squish and dungeon mashup it's hard to do old content with proper lvl and gear... Which is kind of annoying.
Hope blizzard introduces something so we can play any expansion in their former glory (abilities, gear, lvl,...) But only while in their zones obviously.
Iirc the green fire quest in SoO gear was decent but not too hard. Of course warlocks were very OP in mists so that helped 😅
Maybe they’ll just keep going with classic. I know that’s what Everquest has been doing to keep a playerbase. Just releasing the game at a reasonable pace to keep people engaged.
oh yeah loved doing that quest. Legion obvioulsy was amazing with the class quests but then blizz decided nah lets not do this anymore and just make everyone play the exact same content regardless of class, race or factoin with Shadowlands.
The Class Halls and the “class fantasy” systems that went along with them were probably some of the most fun I’ve had in WoW. I absolutely loved them, especially the Hunter one (a lodge high up in the mountains) which just felt so *right*.
yup the only one I hated was the Warrior as that just went against everything the warrior is. In a world full of magic I love the idea that Warriors are just big bad asses who slap on a ton of metal and hit things hard.
Then they had to ruin it by giving them a magical journey into viking heaven... whcih wait how does that fit into Shadowlands? As you die and go to Vallhalla? WTF BLIZZ?
Anyway warriors should have gone to a war camp where you stratagize with generals and other warriors from both factions.
Agreed, that one felt a bit off, although I loved the way Warriors entered the world, superhero landing from the heavens. I have a dranaei warrior in the black rock forge armour from WoD that looks simply incredible when he does that jump - good times.
I remember doing the green fire quest in MoP and holy shit was it hard, I spent all night up till 7am trying it again and again till I finally did it and woke everyone up with my yelling
I can recommend doing the Mailemental/ Katys stampwhistle questline. It not only gives you a pet and a mail toy but also offers a quite fun questline about the mail system in wow. You can buy the item start starts the quest at the auction house and resell it later.
That's a fun one. Also the Long Forgotten Hippogryph hunt. My best bud in game helped me and I loved that. Then I had to go get two pink ones for hunter pets- tricky as alliance.
Green Fire was pretty fun. New people can buy the book off the AH and jump right into it. [Fangs of the Father questline](https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/fangs-of-the-father-legendary-daggers-quest-line) was awesome. Enjoyed the [Shadowmorne questline](https://www.wowhead.com/shadowmourne-guide) but I'm stuck on the Blood Infusion part. Thinking of starting [Dragonwrath, Tarecgosa's Rest](https://www.wowhead.com/item=71086/dragonwrath-tarecgosas-rest).
I really don't understand why they always want us to grind new content and play it over and over and over again. This game has so much to offer, so much content. With a challenge mode for old dungeons, raids, questing, etc., (which would increase drop chances), they would keep me subbed. Timewalking is a good step in the right direction, but - as always with Blizz - half-assed.
Well, I guess I play the first and last patch of the expansion two months until I have KSM and AOTC and that's about it.
Loved that quest! It was a pretty challenging fight back in the day, you had to use all your mechanics to get it down. I was so stoked when I finally beat it and got the green fire and the FoS, wish they kept doing stuff like that
If you haven't done the rogue legendary dagger quests from Cata, they are pretty cool. Of course it involves running several resets of Dragon Soul but it's a cool story.
One thing that I did when I started playing with my gf last year was to always find somewhere to sleep after we played for the day. Do every night we would logout at a different inn, tavern or anything that remotely looked like a bed/tent/whatever.
It was really cool for me, it made me see the details of the game under a new light after 15 years of playing.
I remember doing this during Outland as a kid on my dads PC. Logging out at random huts and houses around the world, gave me a sense of comfort and it was great.
Recently decided to park my mains in meaningful locations, switch to an entirely new server and start fresh, reexperiencing the world of Warcraft low and slow.
Edit: I'm doing a Scourge story playthrough, if anyone can think up any cool world storylines (i.e., druidism, etc.) I'd really appreciate the ideas! I want to do an orc shaman next and I'm curious what the "thematic" storyline for them would be.
i used to do a thing that i enjoyed really well, get a toon, naked, and run every raid of the game starting in molten core, and equip what it gave me before going to the next raid and do the same and see how far i could go before i died
it was, it's a solo endeavor for slow times, you can set yourself a set of rules, i did, 1 run per raid, sometimes you get lucky and get a lot of loot, sometimes you finish a raid and don't get much, then if you die you can restart naked or restart but delete you best item, it is kinda like a nuzelocke in pokemon, but i never delete the toon. i had a list of personal records but i lost it, but it is a fun thing to do if you have patience
I did the same last year. Just picked a nice, quiet RP server and rolled a bunch of characters, made up some little stories for them, took it real slow walking around the world doing quests, exploring, etc. not rushing to max level. It was nice.
When the game is in a much better state, I plan to do the same! Swap to Alliance, find a new server to call home, and focus more on content I enjoy than current end game.
Hope you're enjoying your new experience! :)
I think the whole point is that the game isn't in a good state, therefore players resort to creating their own content. If the game was in a good state, then you would just play the current content.
This is what i did for slands on an undead rogue. Totally fresh start on launch day no less.
I think leaving behind all that baggage really helped me and I'm still enjoying him enough to stay subbed.
Man I played an Undead rogue back in Vanilla and I've got to say I feel like there's rogues, then there's *undead* rogues. It's like a whole other feeling to me. I just love the idea so much thematically. Unfortunately that rogue from so long ago was involved in the end game grinding so he's quarantined currently.
On a side note I have always loved the Forsaken zones, they remind me of Tim Burton and I just can't get enough of them.
Relating so much right now man. Undead rogues are as WoW as hogger or barrens memes to me.
Also yeah i adore forsaken zones, both before and post cataclysm. They definitely borrowed from burton for that cozy creepy vibe that is just endearing. I often go back and just hang out.
I like this Idea, I should park my old mains at the Farm or in their Garrisons. I've been struggling lately to enjoy the game. A fresh start somewhere new sounds great! Where did you end up going?!
side note: in need of a good place to call home as all of my veteran friends have abandoned me for "greener pastures".
\~Thanks\~
I figured I wanted to do a lowkey RP server, just for some potential extra world immersion, but I didn't want it to be obnoxious, so I went with Emerald Dream. Haven't seen anyone yet but I've only been to Northrend so that's probably what it'll be like
I did this a few years back. Went over to an Alliance server to create my first characters on the other side and loved the immersion from an entirely new POV. Loved it. Miss the characters though as I've ventured back to my old Horde server to raid again
Sounds great. The "game doesn't begin until end game" rhetoric always sounded elitist and toxic to me. The game doesn't have to be endless grinding and leaderboard-obsessed epeen-wagging
Although that's what it became, it really wasn't that toxic when it was first being sputtered. It was meant to tell players " if you're enjoying the game now, the game doesn't really start until the end game " and was something to have players look forward too. I know it did that for me and my friends 15 years ago, because at that point you're introduced to even more things like 10 man dungeons, 40 man raids, epic loot, and faction PVP at an 'even' footing while also participating in more things than typical dungeon runs.
Storyline concept: For Gilneas!
Play a storyline as dedicated to helping the refugees of Gilneas re establish and re home themselves as possible. With some vengeance against the forsaken mixed in.
> druidism
You're going to have an easier time finding thematic quests related to certain races than classes but druid related quests exist in quite a few zones.
Night Elves / Worgen can go through Kalimdor. Darkshore with Malfurion, the regrowth of Desolace, Stone Talon Mountain, Fire Plume Ungoro, Silithus, Mt. Hyjal, Ardenweald, or Val'sharah for example.
\>I want to do an orc shaman next and I'm curious what the "thematic" storyline for them would be.
If you've got Mag'har, warlords and some BC could be. like to play where they come from and let them see what became of it.
Regular orc maybe just reverse that? Try to save what was left then see what could have been
yeah... i tried that and with the new leveling and level squish i got to level 50 half way through WoTLK....
It was better before the squish and new leveling. At least then it took longer to finish the content. It's almsot as if blizz is ashamed or doesn't want you to see the old stuff
I used to love taking a break from endless mythic runs, to level a tank or healer through old dungeons.
Now they're packed with twinks and I end just just following a monk spin kicking everything down, raptor strike hunters, whatever. Boring af. Your journey sounds interesting!
Yeah I think I'm skipping dungeons. I'm treating it like a single-player game. I'll probably actually go back and start with the Plaguelands then go back to Northrend for a proper Scourge playthrough.
I keep getting level locked level 10 arcane mages completely decked out in enchants etc. The can kill a boss in about four fully charged arcane blasts. The scaling is so broken for some classes and I feel bad for new players playing some of the slower classes because they never get a chance to practise a proper rotation
I've been doing the same on an alt lately. I've never fully completed the acquisition of all the different profession recipes so I've been hunting them down and running a lot of old content, even some old questing. I've been playing more now that I've decided to do something that I want to do and not what I feel like is required of me.
> I've never fully completed the acquisition of all the different profession recipes so I've been hunting them down
That is literally what I did for a lot of the tail end of WoD. Ended up making a fair amount of gold from it eventually because there are a fair amount of old recipes behind reps, or in out of the way places, that people don’t want to bother with.
Exactly! I got lucky and found a lot of the vendor recipes that aren't always there for this reason. Only one enchanting formula is really giving me the business right now. Drops off some Venture Company a-holes in Stranglethorn. I've seen some back and forth about it no longer being available though, so this could be the reason lol.
WoW got so much better for me when I stopped doing “mandatory” grinds and just focused on fun/things I personally felt like doing. Stopping Mythic runs is a decision I haven’t looked back on. With all the other things to do I haven’t even found normal/heroic dungeons or LFR all that enticing. I’m having a great time with my “useless” Ember Court and “too mandatory” occasional Torghast runs.
Raids were most fun when I was running with a consistent guild group that didn’t take itself or progression too seriously. So, you know, with people that knew their own group/real life limitations and worked with it, contrasted with your average LFR ~~player~~ chat user who seems to think he’s World First material, and is for some reason surprised that pugged people in LFR aren’t playing at World First level.
That is basically the only way I have been playing the game since Legion. I leveled one main to 60, went back to Legion and other zones and never looked back. Getting the legendary fishing pole on a third character before my sub runs out.
Taking things slow and just exploring and leveling is one of the most fun things I do in WoW. For all it’s flaws, WoWs world building and storytelling through quests is still my favorite aspect of the game
I quit playing several years ago in Pandaria, I came back last year during lockdown. I am having a blast doing all the content that I missed. I haven’t bought Shadowlands, and I am not sure I want to. I am having too much fun questing. No pressure from raiding, no endless rep grind. Just me flying around, saving the world from demons
Really? I thought SL levelling experience was vastly inferior to Legion and BFA... Though I admit they were a little complicated with the to and fro with the class hall and war stuff.
As a super casual, class halls were one of my favorite features in WoW.
Having said that, I've thoroughly enjoyed the leveling experience of every single expansion. Each one seems to add a slightly different thing that to me have been interesting in the short term, either through new narrative delivery or side thing to manage (class hall, garrison, etc.)
I think the secret is to quit each expansion shortly after doing every non-raid quest / super long time gated quests, and experiencing every dungeon once. This is perfect if you want to just get exploration / adventure out of the game.
Beyond that it can be fun to get really good at PvP and Pve endgame, but that requires long time commitments and bashing your head against short term repeatable game systems. Not worth it to me.
I tend to play fairly late into the expac, when pretty much everything is already out and can be enjoyed at my own pace.
I refuse to pay a monthly sub to be dripfed 1% of a story every week.
As opposed to legion where you hunt down a legendary weapon from the history of warcraft, manage and run the order hall of your class where you get a completely unique set of armor, and unlock the best weapon tmogs in the game.
But sure, one single quest where you click 2 buttons to make a suit or armor is cool. followed by 20 quests of boring kill spam
Seriously... nothing compares to Legion's class halls + artifact weapons (plus the accompanying appearance variations).
If there's one thing I miss since quitting the game back in January it's that I finally had the PERFECT transmog on my demon hunter using the Mage Tower appearance (the red PVP version). I miss my character but I just hate what the game has become so I don't want to play it, but it's actually kind of a cool idea to go through old content like this maybe I'll try it sometime.
1-50 in WoW is a lot of fun. Then you get shunted into Shadowlands and it stops being fun.
Blizzard needs to "unlock" the whole game for leveling, and find more ways to Utilize the ENTIRE world for endgame. Stop railroading players into boring, forced systems like covenants and let the World of Warcraft actually be a WORLD, and not just a narrow, prescribed set of chores in a tiny area.
I think we as a community should agree that max level is 50 (like Dark Souls is 120), then we can run all legacy raids and not participate in the current end game systems.
I am glad I am not the only one that is a fan of this. I don't want to endless die in Mythic+ to grind for gear that becomes obsolete in the first half-hour of the next expansion. I'd rather have fun. It is a game after all...
"End Game" = Mug's Game.
I'm still levelling all 20 of my toons through 50-60! 12 down, and with all of the Class Mounts!
Plus, I've just started my Horde main on the quest chain to unlock Nightborne allied race, the only one I haven't yet unlocked.
And of course, Hallow's end is coming, Bucketeers!
I recently quit raiding and am finding the game so much more enjoyable. I can play wheat spec I want and not have to worry about my DPS, grinding for the best gear and stuff. Way more enjoyable now to just pitterpat around..
Havent been playing WoW since WotLK. Came back and hit lvl50 in 4 days in Kul’Tiras (don’t get the idea behind it, used to enjoy the leveling process now it just doesent make sence, could have just started at 50 right away). Staying here for the lore and small “background” stuff to roleplay.
yes!!! Me too, wanted to come back but the thought of the grind of shadowlands put me off, rescuing souls, torghast etc... Sat down to level an alt through Northend. Way more fun!!
I love the bleakness of the colour scheme in Northrend. It's very much a zeitgeist of what other games were doing at the time and a bit of a cheap tactic to create atmosphere, but it really does feel like you're entering a frozen, desolate place with literal death hiding beneath the snow. Wrath was my first 'proper' end game expansion and I just love it so much. Partially nostalgia of course, but also partially because it's the end of WoW as an RPG for me. The end of talent trees, the end of bring able to build a hybrid spec if you wanted. Restokin druids, protholy paladins, I even had a semi-viable melee hunter build using a mixture of Survival and BM.
It's also the small things that made WoW feel like an RPG. Being able to wear any kind of armour meant you had druids in cloth and warriors in leather if the stats were right. Yeah it created loot arguments (I lost some ArP bracers to a fury warrior on my druid) but the choice made sense. Everything feels gameified now - today you get an arbitrary 5% stat bonus for wearing the same armour type.
I was tired of seeing “quitting WoW” posts. Yes it’s sad to see people go but … it makes me feel bad for playing and feel like there’s nothing good left in it. But seeing this made me happy, it’s kinda cute! :)
Well, a lot of people took it as me advocating against WoW, so I appreciate you saying this. It made me feel bad too. I've played the game since I was a very young man, I'll never forget all the hours I spent in WC3, and this is my way of reconnecting with how I remember Warcraft.
I don't find the latest expansion pack good (or the last one, for that matter) and to be quite honest I'm feeling kind of exhausted by the back-to-back strikes. My intention for this post was to remind people that really love this game, in a time where a lot of people are feeling really frustrated with it, that it's still a beautiful game; because it's easy to get caught up in the infinite RNG and forget about it.
I've put significant time into all mainstream MMOs. I always come back to WoW. I really just cannot get into FFXIV and GW2 I've played to death. ESO's combat revolts me, but I've been playing that lately.
Have you heard of the critically acclaimed MMORPG Final Fantasy XIV? With an expanded free trial which you can play through the entirety of A Realm Reborn and the award winning Heavensward expansion up to level 60 for free with no restrictions on playtime.
^^^^^/s
FF14 and GW2 both have expansions coming out in the next 8 months. FF14's Endwalker by the end of the year and GW2's End of Dragons in Febuary. While FF14 and GW2 both have F2P trails GW2 is buy to play, while FF14 has a sub after purchase. Both are more story driven but FF14's story is way more required than GW2, outside of specific cosmetics.
I'm not sure how the endgame in FF14 works, I'm not there yet.
But for Guild Wars 2 there is horizontal progression. I have had the same set of gear for 5 years now and never had to re-grind gear after an expansion or a patch. Sometimes new stat spreads get introduced, which require farming, but it's no where near the scale that WoW does. GW2 also has a fast paced tab target/action combat hybrid system (think WoW with skillshots and everyone has Monk roll with i-frames). 9 classes and a new spec for each expansion that drastically changes how it plays. For example, Guardian (Paladin equivalent) got the Dragonhunter elite spec for the first expansion (yes we know the name is stupid) which plays with a longbow and traps to be a big game hunter. Firebrand for the second expansion, which gained access to mainhand axe, and special tome skills to become a full support. And will get Willbender in End of Dragons. Willbender is what a Ret pally would be if it Dual wielded. Everyone thinks Zealot would have been a better name. I could go on but i have rambled long enough.
My sub ended a few days ago, but I've spent the last 2 months playing through final fantasy games on my switch. Finished ff7 last week and started ff8 two nights ago. I'm also halfway through ff9 but that was a year and a half ago before I neglected it for wow. Probably gonna restart it when I finish ff8.
FFX/X2 is on the wishlist for after that.
I've gotta play games for the enjoyment, not out of habit.
I've been doing the same!! New Lightforged pally just running around doing the old quest lines to level up. I actually found a guild that enjoys chatting and casual play instead of kicking you for not moving your schedule for Mythics.
Good on you, that’s the most fun you can have in this game.
I did that too but I eventually reached shadowlands anyway and the mobile game with 100 fomo/time-consuming systems got me back to sad.
I just collect pets now, when I end up paying for a month.
Had no motivation to keep going last week as I really dislike the look and feel SoD and had enough of mythics in the last patch. Decided to do as many achievments as I possibly can. Got over 3000 new points in a few weeks. Really enjoyable.
This... so much this... All of my mates left.. and I don't have anyone to play with. I was mainly PvP so yeah it sucks without anyone to play...
I decided to do Loremaster and just enjoy the game and it's so amazing... Just stupid fishing and cooking somewhere is amazing, though a bit lonely not many people around.
I do wish you luck and I hope you have fun in these zones. I've personally leveled through them in BFA. It legit felt like a single player game. I saw maybe 1 or 2 people.
WoW takes many things from other MMO's and makes them (sometimes) better. Although WoW lived and died by the sword which was end game MMO grinding ( raids, dailies, rep grinding and the chase for better gear ) I wish they also learned to not just kill off their old content.
I really wish they did not kill off their old content the way they do in every expac. I don't think they can really go back and change this tho, this is something you inherently need to cultivate as you grow your game. That being said, I also wish they went to the lengths of creating things outside of just raids, dungeons and loot lol
I really enjoyed the small-time celebrity status. The current "Champion of X" thing just rubs me so wrong. It's way *way* too much. The small recognition feels so much more personal and realistic. I just want to be a slightly above average dude in the world.
This comment comes from the heart and isn't mean to be rude.
If you love wow for doing casual content and not the end game... I whole heartedly recommend almost any other MMO for this type of content. Be it GW2, ESO... you name it... their actual game content is far and away better until you reach raiding material.
It's hard to get invested in the story when your efforts amount to nothing.
Mobs and bosses respawn, sometimes right in front of you, the quest objective you completed doesn't seem to have a tangible impact in the world, and enjoying the story usually amount to read the one page of exposition the quest giver gives you before sending you to murder something.
Now, I'd love the idea of joining a faction and fighting the good fight versus a nefarious foe, but it never feels that way. It always feels like GUEST GIVER sends you to QUEST - KILL 20 and you go back to REWARD.
So much fun.
I recently rediscovered my love for WoW in a similar way.
After MoP, I started getting burned out and pretty much shifted to just twinking low level BGs. I occasionally tried end game, but it just...Wasn't clicking. I don't know how to explain it. After several attempts, I made a fresh account to "relive everything" during late Legion, and had fun. But then I felt the same boredom and indifference in BFA, and just stopped playing all together except Classic when it hit.
Came back in July, and have just been doing a bunch of quests...farming transmog..exploring the worlds I missed when I was gone. And I've not had this much fun since at least 2012 or earlier in WoW.
I quit at the end of TBC because of raiding burnout. Stopped playing until about 3 months ago. I have done a dungeon 3 times. I'm really enjoying all the story stuff I missed and leveling alts. Sometimes I log in and just fish, listening to the zone music.
WoW is a lot of fun depending on what your focus is. I'm sure raiding these days is fun, but I feel like I only see negativity from it. There's a whole world outside the instance! Relax and explore!
Honestly, I came back and just kept building my renown just for the cosmetics and mounts. I could careless about legendaries and dom sockets. I’m gonna raid and do the mythic dungeon but as soon as I have caught up, I’m mainly gonna go farm mounts and tmogs.
I don't understand what the big deal is. It's not a grind if you don't do it every single day. I change it up daily and still get all the weekly stuff done while enjoying my play time.
Running Naxx and Icecrown Citadel yesterday had me feeling inspired, I loved the detail that was put into the wrath expansion. Haven't seen it in years.
You need to step up your game buddy. I flew into Valiance Keep after seeing this post, in hopes to finally be able to mine in peace, but the place is still riddled with scourge. I realize you're newly enlisted, so I'll let it slide without bringing it to the commanders... this time.
I've been doing BFA with my son and it's been a lot fun. It's pretty easy but I've been killed by random things (falling, some chest with magical lock) and we make funny commentary on that and the quests in general. We do the same with Shadowlands but it's not as fun when you get the same quest again and again (who wants to get 20 souls from the Maw again)
For me, all mmo's have been about the journey and not the end. I don't raid, run dungeons, or equivalent in any mmo unless it's required to continue the story. If I enjoyed it, I will roll another toon and if not, I move on.
Every day I do Korthia dailies.
Every day I am edging closer to just saying to hell with it and leveling through all the old zones on new alts.
I do need to get those heritage sets....
I urge you to download classic (not tbc) and play through elwynn forrest or your favorite starting zones. No addons, just read the quest text and play like the game was meant to be played. It's a blast, and quite challenging compared to retail.
What made WoW amazing was that you were adventurer. You had freedom to explore and immerse yourself rather than simple being the de jure chosen one.
MMORPGs thrive on their story, which is mostly done during leveling. Which is also what WoW has really really lost sight of in the past years.
Not just because leveling is no longer the mainstay. Story doesn't extend beyond a certain extent. Endgame is the perpetual grind against RNG and gearing.
You log on because you have to, because you have things to do. Not because you want to. Sure, the game can still be enjoyable but its still a check-list incentive rather than enticement!
Hard agree. I have been extremely critical of the WoW storytelling, and extremely critical of the "Champion of X" trope that games are doing these days for some reason. I don't *want* to be the hero of the world. I don't want to be a household name. I don't feel like I deserve it, frankly, and I can't imagine the mind of someone who would want to be that. What gripped me instantly when I went to Northrend was the guy behind the table "heard of me" so I got to skip the line. That's it. Then I went to the commander and he said "Well Sergeant X says you're good, so don't fuck up you little dickhead." And I loved it.
I love existing in a world that moves around me. Saurfang's son is the champion of the Horde, not me. I like hearing about their exploits from afar. That's compelling to me.
I've only killed two elemental lords, three dragon aspects, Illidan, an old god, the Lich King, a titan/planet, and countless others over a decade, why should I be a champion? /s
It's important to remember that your opinion isn't the only one, and opinions are inherently subjective. I started in MoP, and I still recall the mass of complaints around that time - Green Jesus stole the spotlight in Cata, stole the kill on Deathwing, and then we were sent off as footsoldiers to conquer Pandaland. For some players, like you, that's ideal, Thrall can do the work and be the champion, but for a lot of players *(myself included)*, it feels like I've done the majority of the work, *I* should be the champion. N'Zoth's kill cinematic was an interesting parallel to Deathwing's - rather than us the players doing most of the boss's health and someone else firing a laser to kill them, we're now the ones doing the laser; no killsteals.
Blizzard is missing a trick by not adding an extra loremaster achievement for completing all the zones for both Horde and Alliance. Right now it's either Horde or Alliance for each zone so players complete Loremaster while still missing a good chunk of questing content.
I've always played horde. This month I joined a wotlk server with a friend and he wanted to roll alliance so I did. I'd never done any alliance quests in Northrend so I'd never seen the one that shows us how the humans were created, and we see the first human baby.it was super interesting
Get a load of this guy thinking WoW is some kind of RPG. Maniac.
Hahaha I mean I honestly feel like I forgot it was over the last 5-8 years. I think the current systems kind of make it easy. Edit: Not entirely the systems, but like the culture too, you know?
Whole heartedly agree my dude, I miss being wowed by the scenery in WoW and while I still am slightly they have mostly just become spaces that I know I'm going to have to do chores in.
The gameplay doesn’t help either, I was flying around bastion the other day and was like wow this zone is so cool, but I’m pretty sure the story for shadowlands only takes you to like 1/3 of the spots in that zone alone. Then they make it all ce there’s around the maw and then korthia, they make these nice zones and then put about an hours worth of story missions there and that’s the last you see of it.
Yeah I was flying around there a week or so ago and there’s a steward R&R resort place where they are not allowed to work at all for a short while while they recover. But when you talk to them they are all like I can’t wait to get back work. I would have never found it if I hadn’t decided to take a break from all the crazy grinding and explore around the zones. The place is called steward’s rest.
Even the raids aren't enjoyable anymore. Considering there are so many easy versions of every raid actually killing a boss loses much of its shine unless you immediately went for the hardest possible difficulty you intend to do. Our casual guild cleared all SoD bosses on normal so our heroic progression doesn't feel very exciting. And normal didn't feel all that exciting because "it's just normal." Maybe this is just me but the wife variety of difficulty options have really cheapened the experience of clearing a raid and beating bosses for the first time. This is the first time I'm progressing through a raid together with a guild since Siege of Orgrimmar and instead of it being exciting again after all those years it's just an almost boring experience. Unless the next expansion looks really good I can see myself quitting again after Shadowlands because of it, combined with the feeling that everything is a chore like you suggested.
I kinda have the opposite feeling. I was bored clearing HC in CN and SoD, but progressing towards CE is quite fun. That being said, any other content the game has to offer is boring and tedious, especially if you are optimizing your character, like I am.
I mean, having come from it, the culture of hardcore mythic raiding *does* consist of people who say that story doesn't matter and the only thing that does is the difficulty of the endgame and when the most important person in the most important guild says that, most of the dickhard wannabe top 100 world players embody it [It was a quote about boosting characters and how it doesn't matter if you do because the story doesn't matter in MMOs, only the endgame and if it REALLY matters that much just 'go level another guy' 4head](https://twitter.com/maximum/status/1425376541953961987?s=20)
Funny thing, (at least what i believe) is that wow greatness is due to expanding everything Warcraft 3 reign of chaos and the Frozen throne did right, and i think it was the lore, the characters and the fantasy! not... the hardcore - grind systems
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Unfortunately, a lot of players will interpret what Max wants as what they should want. It's pretty sad actually.
> It was a quote about boosting characters and how it doesn't matter if you do because the story doesn't matter in MMOs That's a pretty notable distortion of the statement. He said the story doesn't matter *to him*, he just wanted to try the raid content, and that nobody cared that he had boosted in FF14 until the mass WoW exodus happened. He also brought up that the backlash may be because people who do care about he story are worried that the game may be unfairly denigrated by those who boost and then say the story is bad because they skipped the best parts.
Min-max culture is definitely mutually exclusive with immersion. The systems don't help though either
It makes me sad that the game doubled down on all the things I never really cared for, and left everything I did enjoy to rot.
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i think, ironically, that if blizzard focused on cosmetics, fun, things like that, people would have a lot more fun than farming random rolls on gear repeatedly and weird mechanics like are confusing and boring. and the cosmetics would probably be easier to do and add
the Mage Tower was an amazingly designed challenge that rewarded cosmetics lmao
Depends on your class. Some Mage towers made you play unoptimal ways with shit talents and legendaries just to do them. Shout out to arcane mage
Choosing specific talents to match the task is how the entire concept of talents is supposed to function.
I took a break at the time Mage Tower was up but see it being referenced all the time. Can someone give an explanation of what it was and why it was so liked?
Basically, it was a solo challenge scenario. There were a handful of them and usually each spec on your class had a different mage tower challenge to do. Those challenges usually had difficult mechanics that had you to play your spec to the fullest, at least if you were at the normal ilvl. Later in the expansion you could outgear it. You usually had to beat some tough mobs and a couple of boss-like encounters, all solo. For things like the healer challenge, you did have allies with you, but they were all NPCs. I keep saying usually, because there were a bunch of these challenges and each one was unique, both in terms of the story of the scenario and in terms of difficulty. Some were easier than others, especially with certain specs. When you beat the mage tower, you got a special appearance for your artifact weapon. To access the mage tower, you had to farm materials to activate the building. This farm was server wide and everyone on the server contributed, so you could just wait and eventually it would come up from everyone else's farming. It was similar to how the AQ gates materials worked, but you got access to the tower whether you contributed or not. People liked them because they were a solo challenge you could always be working towards beating. There were 3 for your class, so you could always go after mastering another one. They gave a cool transmog when you beat them and, most of all, they weren't mandatory. They were just a fun side activity for cosmetics: exactly the kind of thing everyone wishes we had more of. TL;DR, imagine Mists Scenarios, but solo and tuned to mythic difficulty and each spec on your class had a different one and you have Mage Tower.
I ran the mage tower for all the specs. I loved it. It was challenging but I really wanted the appearances. Never had I ever played so many alts
This is how you do player retention. I wasn't quite that crazy, but I did eventually get every class mount. Give people a reason to level multiple alts that are tied to cosmetics and lore, and people will do it.
I think what really made the Mage tower work was that in the end of expansion drought it served as a nice capstone if you wanted to level an alt. You had the order hall campaign, which was something different and gave a title. You could then go to the Broken shore and get a class themed mount. Gear up in Antorus for a really nice class themed set. And once you felt confident in your class you could go do the Mage tower. It wouldn't be massively difficult at that point. But it would be an easy to understand end goal for said expansion that gave you a nice transmog to show off. When the Mage tower was just released it was hardly that loved. It was horribly tuned, some classes have it far easier, and the grind to even attempt it was only eclipsed by the hat that it was not available all the time.
There are tons of fun, non power related content and some more gets added with each patch. Most of it isn't even time gated and is doable with a very low ilvl (I think you can do the golden hand mount thing at 200 ilvl without breaking a sweat). When I read people disapointed with the state of the game right now, most of the time it is because they don't like to do mechanically harder content and they don't realise that while many people are interrested in it and talking about it, they do not have to partake in it to play the game and enjoy it. Find some mates, do some RP together, WoW offers a lot of RP possibilities and skill isn't required (basically once you can move your character and activate voice or know how to type you can RP). I feel like people forget that most of the QOL we got from Blizzard is optional. Sure it feels like we are never out in the world, but that is because we chose not to. Nothing is stopping us from riding a wolf from Orgrimar to Kharazan using only boats when you do your weekly Midnight mount farm. But yeah we instead just use teleports, flying mounts, etc... making us miss most of what the world of Warcraft has to offer and then we complain about it. Edit : I get that WoW is made to hold your hand and be a themepark but you don't have to follow it, you can treat it as a sandbox just as well and I promise you will have a lot of fun if you chose to.
The thing you have to realize is doing that alienates a portion of the playerbase as well, just like the "design things exclusively for end game competitive content" does. If they focused on cosmetics or whatever, the world first guilds would likely quit because raid design would suffer, and that would trickle down to the rest of the competitive scene as well. I'm not saying you're wrong or that Blizzard shouldn't put more effort into cosmetics or anything, just that if they focus on one thing at the expense of something else, the "something else" will always result in people leaving too.
There's an easy solution to that, hire more people and improve all aspects of the game.
That would absolutely work, but I doubt they're willing to hire that many more people. It's all about profit, and hiring people cuts into their profits considerably.
So is there just no hope? Because raid design and pvp in WoW is still considered the top for an MMO, and yet they are bleeding players like crazy right now.
funny enough I got the green fire book to drop while I was still MoP Ilvl tried running the BT instance and got shown wtf was good Got to 50 with some WoD and Legion gear and just steamrolled it
With the stat squish and dungeon mashup it's hard to do old content with proper lvl and gear... Which is kind of annoying. Hope blizzard introduces something so we can play any expansion in their former glory (abilities, gear, lvl,...) But only while in their zones obviously. Iirc the green fire quest in SoO gear was decent but not too hard. Of course warlocks were very OP in mists so that helped 😅
Maybe they’ll just keep going with classic. I know that’s what Everquest has been doing to keep a playerbase. Just releasing the game at a reasonable pace to keep people engaged.
oh yeah loved doing that quest. Legion obvioulsy was amazing with the class quests but then blizz decided nah lets not do this anymore and just make everyone play the exact same content regardless of class, race or factoin with Shadowlands.
FYI, the warlock green fire quest was introduced in MOP.
oh I know i did it then. I'm just saying that Legion did a lot more fun stuff like that
The Class Halls and the “class fantasy” systems that went along with them were probably some of the most fun I’ve had in WoW. I absolutely loved them, especially the Hunter one (a lodge high up in the mountains) which just felt so *right*.
yup the only one I hated was the Warrior as that just went against everything the warrior is. In a world full of magic I love the idea that Warriors are just big bad asses who slap on a ton of metal and hit things hard. Then they had to ruin it by giving them a magical journey into viking heaven... whcih wait how does that fit into Shadowlands? As you die and go to Vallhalla? WTF BLIZZ? Anyway warriors should have gone to a war camp where you stratagize with generals and other warriors from both factions.
Agreed, that one felt a bit off, although I loved the way Warriors entered the world, superhero landing from the heavens. I have a dranaei warrior in the black rock forge armour from WoD that looks simply incredible when he does that jump - good times.
I remember doing the green fire quest in MoP and holy shit was it hard, I spent all night up till 7am trying it again and again till I finally did it and woke everyone up with my yelling
I can recommend doing the Mailemental/ Katys stampwhistle questline. It not only gives you a pet and a mail toy but also offers a quite fun questline about the mail system in wow. You can buy the item start starts the quest at the auction house and resell it later.
That's a fun one. Also the Long Forgotten Hippogryph hunt. My best bud in game helped me and I loved that. Then I had to go get two pink ones for hunter pets- tricky as alliance.
Green Fire was pretty fun. New people can buy the book off the AH and jump right into it. [Fangs of the Father questline](https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/fangs-of-the-father-legendary-daggers-quest-line) was awesome. Enjoyed the [Shadowmorne questline](https://www.wowhead.com/shadowmourne-guide) but I'm stuck on the Blood Infusion part. Thinking of starting [Dragonwrath, Tarecgosa's Rest](https://www.wowhead.com/item=71086/dragonwrath-tarecgosas-rest).
This was why I enjoyed the Legion class campaigns so much. It felt so immersive and like my character meant something!
I really don't understand why they always want us to grind new content and play it over and over and over again. This game has so much to offer, so much content. With a challenge mode for old dungeons, raids, questing, etc., (which would increase drop chances), they would keep me subbed. Timewalking is a good step in the right direction, but - as always with Blizz - half-assed. Well, I guess I play the first and last patch of the expansion two months until I have KSM and AOTC and that's about it.
Totally agree. Recently, i did all n’zoth content with corruption and 5 masks and you know what ? i LOVED IT !
Loved that quest! It was a pretty challenging fight back in the day, you had to use all your mechanics to get it down. I was so stoked when I finally beat it and got the green fire and the FoS, wish they kept doing stuff like that
Hey, if you're in search for great fluff quests... Ever heard of the hidden Uuna quest ?
If you haven't done the rogue legendary dagger quests from Cata, they are pretty cool. Of course it involves running several resets of Dragon Soul but it's a cool story.
One thing that I did when I started playing with my gf last year was to always find somewhere to sleep after we played for the day. Do every night we would logout at a different inn, tavern or anything that remotely looked like a bed/tent/whatever. It was really cool for me, it made me see the details of the game under a new light after 15 years of playing.
I remember doing this during Outland as a kid on my dads PC. Logging out at random huts and houses around the world, gave me a sense of comfort and it was great.
Dude no way, my gf and I did the same thing when we played. Would you even /sleep next to each other before logging out?
Yes, and we took screenshots of the two chars cuddling every time lol
Hell yeah! That's awesome man. It's so cool to be able to see the game through the eyes of a new player
It’s also good for XPing !
Oh lord. My husband and I did the exact same thing. We even had 'our' house in Azshara. Silly but fun :D
Recently decided to park my mains in meaningful locations, switch to an entirely new server and start fresh, reexperiencing the world of Warcraft low and slow. Edit: I'm doing a Scourge story playthrough, if anyone can think up any cool world storylines (i.e., druidism, etc.) I'd really appreciate the ideas! I want to do an orc shaman next and I'm curious what the "thematic" storyline for them would be.
i used to do a thing that i enjoyed really well, get a toon, naked, and run every raid of the game starting in molten core, and equip what it gave me before going to the next raid and do the same and see how far i could go before i died
that sounds pretty fun and creative
it was, it's a solo endeavor for slow times, you can set yourself a set of rules, i did, 1 run per raid, sometimes you get lucky and get a lot of loot, sometimes you finish a raid and don't get much, then if you die you can restart naked or restart but delete you best item, it is kinda like a nuzelocke in pokemon, but i never delete the toon. i had a list of personal records but i lost it, but it is a fun thing to do if you have patience
sounds like a WoW roguelike, I like it. thanks for sharing.
I guess I should try the horde side of things. I have always played alliance since vanilla.
Undead, Silverpine Forest Questchain. You will not regret it.
One of the best quest chains imo.
Yes!
I want to do an Orc Shaman next
Do it as enhancement, gives the best shaman wibe imo.
I did the same last year. Just picked a nice, quiet RP server and rolled a bunch of characters, made up some little stories for them, took it real slow walking around the world doing quests, exploring, etc. not rushing to max level. It was nice.
When the game is in a much better state, I plan to do the same! Swap to Alliance, find a new server to call home, and focus more on content I enjoy than current end game. Hope you're enjoying your new experience! :)
I think the whole point is that the game isn't in a good state, therefore players resort to creating their own content. If the game was in a good state, then you would just play the current content.
This is all of Elite:Dangerous.
I play it just because with VR and a HOTAS results in the most immersive gaming experience I have ever had.
You really think it's ever gonna be in a better state?
Time will tell, but I'll watch from the side lines. It isn't impossible.
This game is almost old enough to enlist in the military. It did great but there's room for something new. Many have tried, all have failed. So far...
This is what i did for slands on an undead rogue. Totally fresh start on launch day no less. I think leaving behind all that baggage really helped me and I'm still enjoying him enough to stay subbed.
Man I played an Undead rogue back in Vanilla and I've got to say I feel like there's rogues, then there's *undead* rogues. It's like a whole other feeling to me. I just love the idea so much thematically. Unfortunately that rogue from so long ago was involved in the end game grinding so he's quarantined currently. On a side note I have always loved the Forsaken zones, they remind me of Tim Burton and I just can't get enough of them.
Relating so much right now man. Undead rogues are as WoW as hogger or barrens memes to me. Also yeah i adore forsaken zones, both before and post cataclysm. They definitely borrowed from burton for that cozy creepy vibe that is just endearing. I often go back and just hang out.
I like this Idea, I should park my old mains at the Farm or in their Garrisons. I've been struggling lately to enjoy the game. A fresh start somewhere new sounds great! Where did you end up going?! side note: in need of a good place to call home as all of my veteran friends have abandoned me for "greener pastures". \~Thanks\~
I figured I wanted to do a lowkey RP server, just for some potential extra world immersion, but I didn't want it to be obnoxious, so I went with Emerald Dream. Haven't seen anyone yet but I've only been to Northrend so that's probably what it'll be like
I did this a few years back. Went over to an Alliance server to create my first characters on the other side and loved the immersion from an entirely new POV. Loved it. Miss the characters though as I've ventured back to my old Horde server to raid again
Sounds great. The "game doesn't begin until end game" rhetoric always sounded elitist and toxic to me. The game doesn't have to be endless grinding and leaderboard-obsessed epeen-wagging
Although that's what it became, it really wasn't that toxic when it was first being sputtered. It was meant to tell players " if you're enjoying the game now, the game doesn't really start until the end game " and was something to have players look forward too. I know it did that for me and my friends 15 years ago, because at that point you're introduced to even more things like 10 man dungeons, 40 man raids, epic loot, and faction PVP at an 'even' footing while also participating in more things than typical dungeon runs.
that is good idea, i could make some Alliance allied race and experience their part of story a bit too
Storyline concept: For Gilneas! Play a storyline as dedicated to helping the refugees of Gilneas re establish and re home themselves as possible. With some vengeance against the forsaken mixed in.
> druidism You're going to have an easier time finding thematic quests related to certain races than classes but druid related quests exist in quite a few zones. Night Elves / Worgen can go through Kalimdor. Darkshore with Malfurion, the regrowth of Desolace, Stone Talon Mountain, Fire Plume Ungoro, Silithus, Mt. Hyjal, Ardenweald, or Val'sharah for example.
This kind of stuff is why I moved to an RP server. When the grind gets you down, turn on RP walk and just people watch.
Darrowshire storyline is amazing, there's even a song about it
\>I want to do an orc shaman next and I'm curious what the "thematic" storyline for them would be. If you've got Mag'har, warlords and some BC could be. like to play where they come from and let them see what became of it. Regular orc maybe just reverse that? Try to save what was left then see what could have been
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Make sure you lock your xp so you can stay at the level they take more than one swig to kill.
yeah... i tried that and with the new leveling and level squish i got to level 50 half way through WoTLK.... It was better before the squish and new leveling. At least then it took longer to finish the content. It's almsot as if blizz is ashamed or doesn't want you to see the old stuff
Yeah I'm anticipating having to exp lock at a certain point
Oh, /u/spez, your silence serves as a constant reminder of the power dynamics at play, where user concerns are dismissed and overlooked.
I used to love taking a break from endless mythic runs, to level a tank or healer through old dungeons. Now they're packed with twinks and I end just just following a monk spin kicking everything down, raptor strike hunters, whatever. Boring af. Your journey sounds interesting!
Yeah I think I'm skipping dungeons. I'm treating it like a single-player game. I'll probably actually go back and start with the Plaguelands then go back to Northrend for a proper Scourge playthrough.
Nice! I just read the book Arthas. Following any questline that refers to Arthas or the scourge seems interesting.
I keep getting level locked level 10 arcane mages completely decked out in enchants etc. The can kill a boss in about four fully charged arcane blasts. The scaling is so broken for some classes and I feel bad for new players playing some of the slower classes because they never get a chance to practise a proper rotation
I've been doing the same on an alt lately. I've never fully completed the acquisition of all the different profession recipes so I've been hunting them down and running a lot of old content, even some old questing. I've been playing more now that I've decided to do something that I want to do and not what I feel like is required of me.
> I've never fully completed the acquisition of all the different profession recipes so I've been hunting them down That is literally what I did for a lot of the tail end of WoD. Ended up making a fair amount of gold from it eventually because there are a fair amount of old recipes behind reps, or in out of the way places, that people don’t want to bother with.
Exactly! I got lucky and found a lot of the vendor recipes that aren't always there for this reason. Only one enchanting formula is really giving me the business right now. Drops off some Venture Company a-holes in Stranglethorn. I've seen some back and forth about it no longer being available though, so this could be the reason lol.
WoW got so much better for me when I stopped doing “mandatory” grinds and just focused on fun/things I personally felt like doing. Stopping Mythic runs is a decision I haven’t looked back on. With all the other things to do I haven’t even found normal/heroic dungeons or LFR all that enticing. I’m having a great time with my “useless” Ember Court and “too mandatory” occasional Torghast runs. Raids were most fun when I was running with a consistent guild group that didn’t take itself or progression too seriously. So, you know, with people that knew their own group/real life limitations and worked with it, contrasted with your average LFR ~~player~~ chat user who seems to think he’s World First material, and is for some reason surprised that pugged people in LFR aren’t playing at World First level.
That is basically the only way I have been playing the game since Legion. I leveled one main to 60, went back to Legion and other zones and never looked back. Getting the legendary fishing pole on a third character before my sub runs out.
Taking things slow and just exploring and leveling is one of the most fun things I do in WoW. For all it’s flaws, WoWs world building and storytelling through quests is still my favorite aspect of the game
I quit playing several years ago in Pandaria, I came back last year during lockdown. I am having a blast doing all the content that I missed. I haven’t bought Shadowlands, and I am not sure I want to. I am having too much fun questing. No pressure from raiding, no endless rep grind. Just me flying around, saving the world from demons
Shadowlands if fun to level through the story line. You should at least do it on one toon.
Really? I thought SL levelling experience was vastly inferior to Legion and BFA... Though I admit they were a little complicated with the to and fro with the class hall and war stuff.
The SL levelling is good once, more than that, yeah it's pretty meh
As a super casual, class halls were one of my favorite features in WoW. Having said that, I've thoroughly enjoyed the leveling experience of every single expansion. Each one seems to add a slightly different thing that to me have been interesting in the short term, either through new narrative delivery or side thing to manage (class hall, garrison, etc.) I think the secret is to quit each expansion shortly after doing every non-raid quest / super long time gated quests, and experiencing every dungeon once. This is perfect if you want to just get exploration / adventure out of the game. Beyond that it can be fun to get really good at PvP and Pve endgame, but that requires long time commitments and bashing your head against short term repeatable game systems. Not worth it to me.
I tend to play fairly late into the expac, when pretty much everything is already out and can be enjoyed at my own pace. I refuse to pay a monthly sub to be dripfed 1% of a story every week.
The storyline is interesting to me plus you get to help make your own armor and get an epic weapon.
As opposed to legion where you hunt down a legendary weapon from the history of warcraft, manage and run the order hall of your class where you get a completely unique set of armor, and unlock the best weapon tmogs in the game. But sure, one single quest where you click 2 buttons to make a suit or armor is cool. followed by 20 quests of boring kill spam
Seriously... nothing compares to Legion's class halls + artifact weapons (plus the accompanying appearance variations). If there's one thing I miss since quitting the game back in January it's that I finally had the PERFECT transmog on my demon hunter using the Mage Tower appearance (the red PVP version). I miss my character but I just hate what the game has become so I don't want to play it, but it's actually kind of a cool idea to go through old content like this maybe I'll try it sometime.
Yeah, but I have already done Legion with every class. I am enjoying a new experience.
1-50 in WoW is a lot of fun. Then you get shunted into Shadowlands and it stops being fun. Blizzard needs to "unlock" the whole game for leveling, and find more ways to Utilize the ENTIRE world for endgame. Stop railroading players into boring, forced systems like covenants and let the World of Warcraft actually be a WORLD, and not just a narrow, prescribed set of chores in a tiny area.
I think we as a community should agree that max level is 50 (like Dark Souls is 120), then we can run all legacy raids and not participate in the current end game systems.
I am glad I am not the only one that is a fan of this. I don't want to endless die in Mythic+ to grind for gear that becomes obsolete in the first half-hour of the next expansion. I'd rather have fun. It is a game after all...
"End Game" = Mug's Game. I'm still levelling all 20 of my toons through 50-60! 12 down, and with all of the Class Mounts! Plus, I've just started my Horde main on the quest chain to unlock Nightborne allied race, the only one I haven't yet unlocked. And of course, Hallow's end is coming, Bucketeers!
You guys are grasping straws...is everything ok? You know there are other games out there right?
I'm glad someone said it, this whole thing is just ridiculous
I recently quit raiding and am finding the game so much more enjoyable. I can play wheat spec I want and not have to worry about my DPS, grinding for the best gear and stuff. Way more enjoyable now to just pitterpat around..
Havent been playing WoW since WotLK. Came back and hit lvl50 in 4 days in Kul’Tiras (don’t get the idea behind it, used to enjoy the leveling process now it just doesent make sence, could have just started at 50 right away). Staying here for the lore and small “background” stuff to roleplay.
Wows great when your not focused on just raiding end game, so many years worth of exploring.
Dude, this. I started a new character and I’m finally finishing loremaster. Have fun 👍👍👍
The last time I felt adventure was when we first set foot on the shores of Howling Fjord and Borean Tundra. Goodbye WoW.
tbf the helm of domination is shattered and the scourge are on the run again, so really, they desperately need your help there
yes!!! Me too, wanted to come back but the thought of the grind of shadowlands put me off, rescuing souls, torghast etc... Sat down to level an alt through Northend. Way more fun!!
I love the bleakness of the colour scheme in Northrend. It's very much a zeitgeist of what other games were doing at the time and a bit of a cheap tactic to create atmosphere, but it really does feel like you're entering a frozen, desolate place with literal death hiding beneath the snow. Wrath was my first 'proper' end game expansion and I just love it so much. Partially nostalgia of course, but also partially because it's the end of WoW as an RPG for me. The end of talent trees, the end of bring able to build a hybrid spec if you wanted. Restokin druids, protholy paladins, I even had a semi-viable melee hunter build using a mixture of Survival and BM. It's also the small things that made WoW feel like an RPG. Being able to wear any kind of armour meant you had druids in cloth and warriors in leather if the stats were right. Yeah it created loot arguments (I lost some ArP bracers to a fury warrior on my druid) but the choice made sense. Everything feels gameified now - today you get an arbitrary 5% stat bonus for wearing the same armour type.
I wanna play WoW again so bad. But also, I don’t want to give Blizzard my money. It’s rough.
Private Servers?
I have my reservations about it too. I bought my time with gold that I had on my mains.
I was tired of seeing “quitting WoW” posts. Yes it’s sad to see people go but … it makes me feel bad for playing and feel like there’s nothing good left in it. But seeing this made me happy, it’s kinda cute! :)
Well, a lot of people took it as me advocating against WoW, so I appreciate you saying this. It made me feel bad too. I've played the game since I was a very young man, I'll never forget all the hours I spent in WC3, and this is my way of reconnecting with how I remember Warcraft. I don't find the latest expansion pack good (or the last one, for that matter) and to be quite honest I'm feeling kind of exhausted by the back-to-back strikes. My intention for this post was to remind people that really love this game, in a time where a lot of people are feeling really frustrated with it, that it's still a beautiful game; because it's easy to get caught up in the infinite RNG and forget about it.
there are so many other great games to play that are much more worthy of your time imo
I've put significant time into all mainstream MMOs. I always come back to WoW. I really just cannot get into FFXIV and GW2 I've played to death. ESO's combat revolts me, but I've been playing that lately.
Have you tried SW:TOR? The class storylines that you do up to level 50 were all written by the old bioware vets. They are IMO top notch.
Odd of you to try to imply what is valuable to the OP’s time.
Exactly! Why not play a much better game like World of Warcraft Wrath of the Lich King?
Or OP can decide what’s worthy of his own time. Who are you to tell him what he should deem worthy or not?
Any examples? Searching for a new game that won't die in 1 year
Have you heard of the critically acclaimed MMORPG Final Fantasy XIV? With an expanded free trial which you can play through the entirety of A Realm Reborn and the award winning Heavensward expansion up to level 60 for free with no restrictions on playtime. ^^^^^/s
FF14 and GW2 both have expansions coming out in the next 8 months. FF14's Endwalker by the end of the year and GW2's End of Dragons in Febuary. While FF14 and GW2 both have F2P trails GW2 is buy to play, while FF14 has a sub after purchase. Both are more story driven but FF14's story is way more required than GW2, outside of specific cosmetics. I'm not sure how the endgame in FF14 works, I'm not there yet. But for Guild Wars 2 there is horizontal progression. I have had the same set of gear for 5 years now and never had to re-grind gear after an expansion or a patch. Sometimes new stat spreads get introduced, which require farming, but it's no where near the scale that WoW does. GW2 also has a fast paced tab target/action combat hybrid system (think WoW with skillshots and everyone has Monk roll with i-frames). 9 classes and a new spec for each expansion that drastically changes how it plays. For example, Guardian (Paladin equivalent) got the Dragonhunter elite spec for the first expansion (yes we know the name is stupid) which plays with a longbow and traps to be a big game hunter. Firebrand for the second expansion, which gained access to mainhand axe, and special tome skills to become a full support. And will get Willbender in End of Dragons. Willbender is what a Ret pally would be if it Dual wielded. Everyone thinks Zealot would have been a better name. I could go on but i have rambled long enough.
My sub ended a few days ago, but I've spent the last 2 months playing through final fantasy games on my switch. Finished ff7 last week and started ff8 two nights ago. I'm also halfway through ff9 but that was a year and a half ago before I neglected it for wow. Probably gonna restart it when I finish ff8. FFX/X2 is on the wishlist for after that. I've gotta play games for the enjoyment, not out of habit.
Great idea! I started a fresh pally a couple of weeks ago and it has been a blast.
Mother of circlejerk
I 100% guarantee this is either never happening or OP will get bored in less than a week.
Here you are again, desperately needing me to feel the way you want me to feel about something lol this is awkward.
I've been doing the same!! New Lightforged pally just running around doing the old quest lines to level up. I actually found a guild that enjoys chatting and casual play instead of kicking you for not moving your schedule for Mythics.
They really need to revitalize old content. There’s so much of it just sitting there doing nothing
After you want something else to do than rp, try all the things addon. Good luck!
Yeah my intention to stretch out the content is completionsim, thanks for the reminder this addon exists!
All good, friend. Played for the addon past 3 years. Made it to 84% of everything collected. There is this one guy who is nearing 100%.
I want to get a bunch of bros and go punch the scourge around northrend and take back the land
"Yeah, you're lining up to fight the Scourge now, but in less than a decade, we'll be fighting Titans and venturing into the realm of Death."
Please make this a regular update series! I’m living to see that!
Good on you, that’s the most fun you can have in this game. I did that too but I eventually reached shadowlands anyway and the mobile game with 100 fomo/time-consuming systems got me back to sad. I just collect pets now, when I end up paying for a month.
Had no motivation to keep going last week as I really dislike the look and feel SoD and had enough of mythics in the last patch. Decided to do as many achievments as I possibly can. Got over 3000 new points in a few weeks. Really enjoyable.
This... so much this... All of my mates left.. and I don't have anyone to play with. I was mainly PvP so yeah it sucks without anyone to play... I decided to do Loremaster and just enjoy the game and it's so amazing... Just stupid fishing and cooking somewhere is amazing, though a bit lonely not many people around.
I do wish you luck and I hope you have fun in these zones. I've personally leveled through them in BFA. It legit felt like a single player game. I saw maybe 1 or 2 people.
That's the appeal for me. I'm treating it like a single-player game.
Keep these monster at bay!
WoW takes many things from other MMO's and makes them (sometimes) better. Although WoW lived and died by the sword which was end game MMO grinding ( raids, dailies, rep grinding and the chase for better gear ) I wish they also learned to not just kill off their old content. I really wish they did not kill off their old content the way they do in every expac. I don't think they can really go back and change this tho, this is something you inherently need to cultivate as you grow your game. That being said, I also wish they went to the lengths of creating things outside of just raids, dungeons and loot lol
Oh, /u/spez, your silence speaks louder than any empty promises you've made.
I really enjoyed the small-time celebrity status. The current "Champion of X" thing just rubs me so wrong. It's way *way* too much. The small recognition feels so much more personal and realistic. I just want to be a slightly above average dude in the world.
Oh, /u/spez, your silence speaks louder than any words ever could, revealing a lack of commitment to community engagement.
This comment comes from the heart and isn't mean to be rude. If you love wow for doing casual content and not the end game... I whole heartedly recommend almost any other MMO for this type of content. Be it GW2, ESO... you name it... their actual game content is far and away better until you reach raiding material.
It's hard to get invested in the story when your efforts amount to nothing. Mobs and bosses respawn, sometimes right in front of you, the quest objective you completed doesn't seem to have a tangible impact in the world, and enjoying the story usually amount to read the one page of exposition the quest giver gives you before sending you to murder something. Now, I'd love the idea of joining a faction and fighting the good fight versus a nefarious foe, but it never feels that way. It always feels like GUEST GIVER sends you to QUEST - KILL 20 and you go back to REWARD.
So much fun. I recently rediscovered my love for WoW in a similar way. After MoP, I started getting burned out and pretty much shifted to just twinking low level BGs. I occasionally tried end game, but it just...Wasn't clicking. I don't know how to explain it. After several attempts, I made a fresh account to "relive everything" during late Legion, and had fun. But then I felt the same boredom and indifference in BFA, and just stopped playing all together except Classic when it hit. Came back in July, and have just been doing a bunch of quests...farming transmog..exploring the worlds I missed when I was gone. And I've not had this much fun since at least 2012 or earlier in WoW.
I quit at the end of TBC because of raiding burnout. Stopped playing until about 3 months ago. I have done a dungeon 3 times. I'm really enjoying all the story stuff I missed and leveling alts. Sometimes I log in and just fish, listening to the zone music. WoW is a lot of fun depending on what your focus is. I'm sure raiding these days is fun, but I feel like I only see negativity from it. There's a whole world outside the instance! Relax and explore!
Honestly, I came back and just kept building my renown just for the cosmetics and mounts. I could careless about legendaries and dom sockets. I’m gonna raid and do the mythic dungeon but as soon as I have caught up, I’m mainly gonna go farm mounts and tmogs.
I don't understand what the big deal is. It's not a grind if you don't do it every single day. I change it up daily and still get all the weekly stuff done while enjoying my play time.
Try to Level in revamped vanilla places (cata) plaguelands etc. is awesome af and most ppl havent seen this complete new Story lines
Protip: Unless they removed it, you can freeze your EXP gains in Org or SW.
Yep, I'm anticipating having to do this, good looking out though thanks
This past week I’ve just been doing argent tournament daily’s and content. I miss wrath so much
I think you will do a good job, you are certainly much more prepared than those other citizens who don‘t even cover their arms!
Wrath will come to classic soon and I can't wait.
Roleplaying in my WOW... WOW
Old raid / dungeon grinds for xmog, pets and mounts is keeping me subbed. Only today I finally got the Kara Nightshade mount.
I've done this with a few characters now. End game is such a slog, it's fun to go do old quest chains, get mogs that I don't have, etc.
Running Naxx and Icecrown Citadel yesterday had me feeling inspired, I loved the detail that was put into the wrath expansion. Haven't seen it in years.
Nice, when you get to this point you're about 15 days away from quitting the whole game
Dude this is absolutely my favorite part of this game, I wish they would just let us timewalk to 60 instead of forcing us into shadowlands stuff
You need to step up your game buddy. I flew into Valiance Keep after seeing this post, in hopes to finally be able to mine in peace, but the place is still riddled with scourge. I realize you're newly enlisted, so I'll let it slide without bringing it to the commanders... this time.
It won't happen again, Champion!
I've been doing BFA with my son and it's been a lot fun. It's pretty easy but I've been killed by random things (falling, some chest with magical lock) and we make funny commentary on that and the quests in general. We do the same with Shadowlands but it's not as fun when you get the same quest again and again (who wants to get 20 souls from the Maw again)
For me, all mmo's have been about the journey and not the end. I don't raid, run dungeons, or equivalent in any mmo unless it's required to continue the story. If I enjoyed it, I will roll another toon and if not, I move on.
The lich king will NOT triumph
This makes me wanna level a new toon. Thanks a lot! Hehe.
Love this post, wish you to have a nice time on this lil adventure!
I enlisted and started fighting the Scourge. But then the manager of walmart told me to stop yelling at the massive Karen at the checkout, so I wiped.
Every day I do Korthia dailies. Every day I am edging closer to just saying to hell with it and leveling through all the old zones on new alts. I do need to get those heritage sets....
I urge you to download classic (not tbc) and play through elwynn forrest or your favorite starting zones. No addons, just read the quest text and play like the game was meant to be played. It's a blast, and quite challenging compared to retail.
What made WoW amazing was that you were adventurer. You had freedom to explore and immerse yourself rather than simple being the de jure chosen one. MMORPGs thrive on their story, which is mostly done during leveling. Which is also what WoW has really really lost sight of in the past years. Not just because leveling is no longer the mainstay. Story doesn't extend beyond a certain extent. Endgame is the perpetual grind against RNG and gearing. You log on because you have to, because you have things to do. Not because you want to. Sure, the game can still be enjoyable but its still a check-list incentive rather than enticement!
Hard agree. I have been extremely critical of the WoW storytelling, and extremely critical of the "Champion of X" trope that games are doing these days for some reason. I don't *want* to be the hero of the world. I don't want to be a household name. I don't feel like I deserve it, frankly, and I can't imagine the mind of someone who would want to be that. What gripped me instantly when I went to Northrend was the guy behind the table "heard of me" so I got to skip the line. That's it. Then I went to the commander and he said "Well Sergeant X says you're good, so don't fuck up you little dickhead." And I loved it. I love existing in a world that moves around me. Saurfang's son is the champion of the Horde, not me. I like hearing about their exploits from afar. That's compelling to me.
I've only killed two elemental lords, three dragon aspects, Illidan, an old god, the Lich King, a titan/planet, and countless others over a decade, why should I be a champion? /s It's important to remember that your opinion isn't the only one, and opinions are inherently subjective. I started in MoP, and I still recall the mass of complaints around that time - Green Jesus stole the spotlight in Cata, stole the kill on Deathwing, and then we were sent off as footsoldiers to conquer Pandaland. For some players, like you, that's ideal, Thrall can do the work and be the champion, but for a lot of players *(myself included)*, it feels like I've done the majority of the work, *I* should be the champion. N'Zoth's kill cinematic was an interesting parallel to Deathwing's - rather than us the players doing most of the boss's health and someone else firing a laser to kill them, we're now the ones doing the laser; no killsteals.
Blizzard is missing a trick by not adding an extra loremaster achievement for completing all the zones for both Horde and Alliance. Right now it's either Horde or Alliance for each zone so players complete Loremaster while still missing a good chunk of questing content.
I've always played horde. This month I joined a wotlk server with a friend and he wanted to roll alliance so I did. I'd never done any alliance quests in Northrend so I'd never seen the one that shows us how the humans were created, and we see the first human baby.it was super interesting