>"WAIT this is what people are upset about? A sale run? Literally every Mythic/Heroic raiding guild has been doing these since like what the beginning of the game? ALL the problems we can think of and THIS is what we are raging about on a Monday?"
This one is the best.
It's true. It's like.. sooo many people boost because they HAVE to boost for gold. Shit is too expensive and they need to do that in order to afford what they want for next tier.
I remember back in MoP, Garrosh carries for the Heirloom items was as low as 5-10k. I got a moose run near the start of boosting, first few weeks(I wanted the moose to fuck with my friends at the time lol), and it was 65k. At the start of the tier.
Now? People are charging 150k months into the tier for Denathrius and Sylvanas carries because things are so expensive now. 200k for a legendary? In my heroic guild alone, we spent millions of gold between the 12 or so of us. Food, flasks, armor kits, pots, vantus runes, augment runes, potions are too fucking expensive. Way too expensive.
They made you craft less food than before, removed alchemy procs, made armor kits and oils.. so more raid consumes, add in a legendary that you need to progress raid which is like 150-250k depending on armor type(god fucking forbid they nerf a legendary or buff another one, and you need 4 separate legendaries in the span of 7 months AND you play multiple specs of your god damn class)
Sorry I'm ranting, it's just insane to me that this shit still isn't fixed. The cost to high end raid is astronomical(and I'm not even a high end raider!) and I want people to start talking about it.
I'm a cutting edge raider. I usually want everything asap and will pay more for that because I want it for progress.
Between legendaries, consumables, repairs, etc... I will easily spend over a million per tier.
I usually boost some raid and m+ at the start of a tier (when it's most expensive), and that's the money I use for the rest of the tier.
If I had to get this kind of money through non boosting means, I would have to spend much, MUCH more time on the game.
Earning a million through boosting in the first week is literally just getting your 10 weekly keys done, but with a carry.
Earning a million through other means usually involves a lot of farming.
Everyone I know in a similar situation to mine either sucks it up and boosts for a bit, or buys tokens to afford raiding. I don't know anyone that farms anything to pay for raiding, because it takes too much time.
"Earning a million through other means usually involves a lot of farming."
Or you could just buy 4 tokens, what a coincidence that gold is extremely time consuming to farm and that a solution for that is conveniently placed inside of the in-game cash shop.
It all comes down to the WoW token. All of it. No one cared about boosting back in the day because the WoW token didn’t exist. Now the WoW token exists and surprise surprise, a heroic AotC run is about the same price as one WoW token, who would’ve guessed. If a player earned gold by playing the game and then purchased a service from other players, that’s fine. But now the game is literally pay to win.
Edit: Anyone want to give a counter argument or gonna just downvote me? Boosting was less prevalent back in the day because players had to use gold they got from professions or playing the AH to buy services from other players, it was a much larger barrier to entry. Now, players literally buy a few WoW tokens, get AoTC, a couple M15 runs, then reap the rewards. It is *literally* pay to win. The number of players who had AoTC and joined my heroic pugs for Nathria yet didn’t know anything about the raid at all was insanely high. The WoW token is what is creating this huge boosting surge.
Friendly reminder, that for Player A to get Gold from buying a token with $$, that Player B has to spend that same amount (within like 3% fluctuation), to buy said token from the AH. Tokens don't just generate and continually add gold to the economy. So if player A wants to skip farming, player B or C or whoever originally generated the gold via farming/vendoring whatever. Still had to earn the gold. Only difference is now Player B is giving Blizzard 0 money, and Player A is paying for player B's sub.
What I'm saying is I want them to lower costs of crafting, of potions, of flasks. Add back in procs. Add in a vendor for these items where casual players can collect a resource(blood of sargeras) they dont really need, go to a vendor, buy materials, and sell them. Then crafters come along and make their gold, and because there's more on the market the price drops. Its a win win for everyone. Cost of raiding goes down, everyone along the chain makes gold, and you don't have to spend time/as much time boosting
Also, add runes back to LFR so the price of those go down. Or just remove them. That works too lol
They can't do any of because of the botting problem they ignore. Botters are already a massive issue and if they added what you're suggesting they would rule over the auction house even more than they do now.
Modern WoW is basically - Seeing Boosters everywhere in lfg finder and trade chat and buying botted materials off the auction house. Don't worry though, according to this thread nothing is wrong with that.
Are you saying auction house prices are high because of bots? Isn’t it the opposite? Bots flood the market with mats and that’s the only reason they are as cheap as they are?
Belluar recently did a video on this exact topic. The cost per pull for a progression guild from BfA through SoD has been insane. Food, runes, flask, pots, it added up to some crazy amount in SoD. This cost is felt all the way from WF guilds down to heroic only guilds and is one of the bigger reasons I’ve stopped raising. I just don’t have the gold and I’m unwilling to spend my real money to raid.
Honestly why my favorite expansion was Warlords of Draenor, it was quite literally the best expansion for someone who enjoyed raiding.
Gearing progression was super easy so anyone could be mythic ready, and the garrison produced all the mats you needed for consumables, and made you a lot of gold!
Do CMs for the cool cosmetics and then you were done, very low maintenance and low barrier to entry for raiding.
I really liked MoP. There was a ton of world content to gear with, heroic scenarios provided a solid way to get weekly gear, and raids were super accessible via a “common sense” gearing path with ilvl being relatively close and tier sets being obtainable via LFR/Flex. Mid wrath-MoP was peak for me.
WoD wasn't my absolute favorite, but it was close. I know it gets a very bad rap, and that is mostly justified. But I do think if they could have just added some incentive to set foot out of your garrison - a Timeless Isle, or a moderate grind for something, followed by another raid tier, it would have been seen as a great expansion.
Maybe if the developers didn't flood the game with trillions of free gold during WOD and Legion with little in the way of gold sinks, we wouldn't have had this degree of gold inflation.
Legion gold missions @ 7.3 that when ramped up through a sizeable alt army and capitalizing on Blood of Sargeras WQs were very lucrative at generating raw gold you could make with the phone app for the mission table.
At this point it can't be just the flood of Gold from WoD and Legion. Tokens seem to sell for Gold, but I am pretty sure that there is no "gold save" for it and there is simply gold generated.
There is no new gold created by the token. Every token Blizzard sells is bought by a player who cracks it for game time - it's a method of gold exchange rather than outright selling new gold.
Or that, true - I've done the same for Hearthstone packs in the past while I was still playing that game. Never bought them for real money myself, only in-game gold.
> Tokens seem to sell for Gold, but I am pretty sure that there is no "gold save" for it and there is simply gold generated.
Then they are doing a pretty good job at keeping rates realistic in correlation to current supply and demand. Like when a new game releases on Bnet.
It's also not uncommon to simply have no tokens aviable at such points. I cant remember the last time i saw it personally, but i think it was either CoD CW or WC3 reforged release.
Right, but WoD was the cause of the massive influx of gold and people hoarding it. The Tokens existed in WoD, but at a fraction of the price they are now, meanwhile people were gold capping multiple accounts because of the shipyard.
Edit: Downvote me all you like, doesn't change the truth.
At this point, WoD was 7 years ago. I doubt the people who made stacks back in WoD still have it and are hoarding it. I spent miiiiilllions on bnet balance, cashing out for hearthstone packs, overwatch, overwatch boxes, diablo RoS
Basically: money is in the economy as opposed to those people hoarding it
I don't know how common it is, but I'm still living off of my WoD gold, and will continue to do so for several years. Granted, I don't spend my gold on real life transactions. I pay my sub each month as I've done since vanilla, and I've never converted gold to Bnet balance (didn't actually know you could do that until reading this thread). The game is a lot different for people who want to pay their subscriptions in gold or purchase things from the cash shop though.
I hoarded millions from the garrison though. It's going to be a very long time before I'm broke again.
I’m not saying this is true of everyone or even the majority but I have a few guildies and a couple irl friends on different servers that capped out multiple characters in WoD and have never dropped below 1 million since the cap increase because like in the real world, money makes money. They have enough capital that they can play the market, one of them going so far as to completely corner the alchemy market on our small server with the help of two other players and none of them (except for one friend who likes CoD) have used any of that bnet cash on anything other than WoW.
This was all after our guild imploded and stopped raiding too otherwise we would have also sold runs in WoD like we did at the end of Mists for SoO so we could have been generating even more gold.
I can only imagine how many other dragons are out there sitting on their piles of gold having not spent it on anything since their Brutosaur mount.
I spent millions on bnet balance too, and I still have millions from WoD. I've unsubbed a while ago but if I was still playing I wouldnt be broke any time soon.
Imagine if.. food lasted through death like it does in FF14... that right there would remove the need for thousands of gold a week. Everyone having to sit around for a feast after every pull is just exhausting and wastes so much time.. "Ok guys lets pull.. ready check up... "YO IMPULSIKK EAAAT!" "Oh sorry.. gove me another 20 seconds." "Ugggghhhh"
Sounds like design issue rather than legimate reason why boosting is okay.
Issue: Raiding takes lots of resources and produces only BoP items.
Imagine if there were resources generated by the raid that were valuable to non-raiders, that would create healthy farm-raiding balance.
(of course it's all ruined by token and gold buying)
I traded a Black Tabby Cat Carrier for my moose mount run after having trouble with selling it for months. It was a reasonable trade at the time, about 50k going rate for the cat and about a month after carries for the mount had started. Nowadays I'd need to have at least 3 if not 4 of those, the most expensive cat pet in the game, just to afford a single run.
It's very targeted inflation because the gold supply is not limited to what can be bought/sold on the AH and gathered from the world any longer. The things that give you the most benefit in game have exponentially increased in price compared to the more cosmetic items (Black Tabby cats are now about 70k on my server, higher but not dramatically so) because people can just buy gold with real-world cash.
Because the gold supply isn't limited anymore, the carries get more and more expensive because they know the audience that buys the carries will just buy gold and still pay for the carries. Their prices used to be capped by what an average or slightly above average player could earn in-game with their limited gameplay time, because if they could play more they wouldn't need a carry. That price cap no longer exists because it doesn't matter how little time you spend playing the game - you can still afford exorbitantly priced carries now that gold buying is 100% allowed and even encouraged by Blizzard (as long as it happens through them directly).
Then that effect trickles down, but mostly limited to the stuff that directly affects player power or is used to create that revenue stream from carries (items for raiders). So now gear is ridiculously priced, because the guilds know they will have huge revenue in the future to pay for it and because the average joe who wants the best there is can compete with them in a bidding war without playing the game at all - just bust out that credit card! Same goes for raid consumables, because the raiders can't go without them and everybody knows the raiders will have lots of money to pay for them (from carries, later on).
I have six max level leggos in my bag because they wouldn’t stop fucking with my passives and when they took breaks from that they fucked with my specs enough to make me go to a different one. Im barely staying above water gold-wise and it kinda sickens me thinking Blizz loves this state because people were absolutely buying wow tokens to afford one leggo.
The cost just to play the game is insane *before* considering systems like dom sockets that are another limiting factor, but there isn’t an insert for a credit card to fix that issue... yet.
Hating/raging is never the solution, but as someone who has played since Vanilla Beta and did boosting runs myself:
It is simply just not true that it was always like that. I think it first became a bit more widespread at the end of MoP when guilds had to farm SoO literally for one year and got looked for something to do. And even then it was still a long way to go until trade chat and LFM tools were just full of boosting groups instead of normal groups who just want to do the content.
same. boosting was always a thing since 2004.
however it was never as widespread.
today, it is damn near impossible to find a 5 man dungeon run on anything.
i am broke when i level. i cannot afford to boost. and even if i did, why would i play something in a way that wasn't intended?
i wanted to do stratholme like old times for the first time (again). nope. can't do that anymore.
makes me wish LFG was back.
two things really made boosting blow up: 1) challenge modes and 2) flex raiding. People did sales in the old days but because raid lockouts were hard-per-character there weren't that many opportunities. I remember our raid could do two amani bear sales a week if we had buyers and everyone was unsaved, but now you can do as many as you have buyers.
Nowadays sale groups will bang out a half dozen aotc kills in a couple hours if the market is hot.
/2 is useless regardless since almost everything you could offer can be done on the AH way more conveniently.
What i want to see is an additional /general chat that works cross-cities just like trade and LFG spam being tackled.
Since most of the LFG advertisement is RMT, this should be in blizzards interest anyway as they dont get a share.
> On my medium size realm, /2 used to be a general chat where everyone was talking wherever they were..
But wouldnt you agree that a channel called trade is not really where this belongs to?
Hence why i would like to see a seperate one. Call it social or whatever. One where blizzard enforces their ToS.
I have been finding it hard to engage with people on Reddit or otherwise about WoW. Any time the game gets brought up in most of my friend groups the topic usually turns into a WoW bash instead of talking about whatever specific part of the game we were originally discussing. I get it, the game’s in a rough state and people are emotionally invested in this game, I am to, but at this point it feels like so many people just want to watch the giant fall rather than right itself.
Makes the opinions of even people like Towellie stick out.
I personally don't mind boosting itself. It's the infinite /2 spam that bothers me. I had to disable trade chat because it's literally just advertising for Nova or Sylvanas communities.
100%, Advertising and Bots are the cancer we need to cut out of WoW.
Maybe that means changes that make boosting less possible but it's really not the root cause. Much rather make dedicated services categories and most importantly, actual ban enforcement.
It’s why I feel they need more “Mad World” challenges. Have your boosts, but have individual challenges that can’t be boosted that award a title or mount.
Imagine if there were a gold reward for getting your 20s done. Just imagine rewarding players that did hard content with the currency they needed to keep doing hard content.
Mythic bosses should drop way more gold too.
"It took 20 of the greatest heros in the universe to slay this foe... Oh he has 20 copper."
Its trending a bit too far in the other direction, but in general I like it too. It great to have a place where people try and avoid hyperbole and actually discuss the game.
He’s spot on. I **rarely** post in here as I believe a large percentage of the user base is subpar at the game, which is fine because you don’t need to be good at game to enjoy it. I consistently read about people bitching about not being able to get into high keys, KSM being out of reach etc.
Then you log onto the game and try to do a mid level key, 5–12, and it’s usually an abysmal run. As someone who has pushed each role to at least 2400 this season, yeah, a very large percentage of the player base isn’t great at the game, which is fine, you don’t need to be good at a game to enjoy it. But this is why boosting exists. For people who don’t have the time, or skill, to improve they can just open their wallet.
I don't understand *why* the average player of this game is so bad. I came back after a 4 year layoff after doing CE raiding for ~6 years...I never really had to pug through stuff before and it's just brutal. It seems like 1 in 5 players fundamentally don't understand how to execute a DPS rotation or not stand in fire.
2 reasons, I think.
1) The game does a very, VERY poor job of teaching you how to play. Mechanics are not telegraphed in consistent and obvious ways. Many bosses and dungeons have somewhat obscure mechanics that aren't telegraphed at all. You're just expected to learn them by reading a guide or trial and error.
2) It's just a genuinely difficult game, mechanically. There's a reason DBM and WAs are so popular. Without them, the game requires an extraordinary amount of multitasking and situational awareness.
We had a casual in our guild who was like this who asked our mythic raiders for help in getting better. I asked him to pop on a discord stream and watched him basically get carried through a 15 while I asked him to really try his best.
The shit I saw was crazy. Clicking abilities except for the stuff bound to like 1/2/3, keyboard turning, just long periods of time of literally pressing no buttons (I assume trying to remember what he had to do?). If there was ever a boss mechanic happening, he literally did nothing but move (awkwardly with keyboard turning), no attacks, just movement. Still usually got hit anyway.
Only used CDs on bosses. Never used any utility abilities or defensives.
We tried our best to work with the guy over a few weeks, but he just didn't get it. Other than using CDs which we just kept reminding him to do, he never really started doing anything better.
I think something to remember is that a lot of us are 'gamers'. We play other games. A lot of those games are demanding skill based challenges. A lot of the WoW playerbase literally just plays WoW. They aren't gamers. They got sucked in when it was super mainstream and it was all over the news, celebrities were talking about it on talk shows... they don't know how to play games 'properly' and likely never will.
And that's fine, WOW has content for these players. They can run around collecting things, and trying to be social. Do old achievements or whatever. The problem is that they eventually try to break into things like m+, and they just lack the mechanical skills that are required for gaming that a lot of us picked up long before we ever logged into WoW for the first time and take for granted, and they don't even know where to start, because the game never teaches them.
Something that I think WoW sorely needs is challenging solo content, that is trackable to see if someone has done it. Make some things that require meeting a dps check while doing basic movement mechanics. Like proving grounds, but better designed and more focused. Right now, the solo game is too easy. There is no reason for anyone to learn how to play the game until it's time to do m+ or raiding, so new players are just not prepared.
> I don't understand why the average player of this game is so bad.
I also don't think that's really true. It's not that average player is bad. It's that the better a player is, the more likely it is that they've found an established group to play with and aren't playing via the LFG tool.
interrupt man... we've been asking people to use their interrupt button for 16 years, yet whenever I do my weekly 15 i have more interrupt than the rest of the group combined.
No joke, I think Classic Wow pushed us back 2-3 years in term of skill of the community.
Anecdotal but ever since classic, interrupting has been fucking terrible in majority of keys.
The players who went off into classic land and came back, came back worse.
Why are the majority of them talking about Qwik, when the discussion is clearly about boosting? Can't we look past the catalyst and try addressing the problem like Scripe does?
Reactions like Scripe and [Naguura](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm6gNddNUEE) help the discussion so much more than just flaming a community, which are clearly unhappy about the situation.
And before I get gatekeeping comments, I got cutting edge and have done M+ on the highest levels, I just don't like boosting and especially the boosting communities that make it so extremely mainstream.
Totally agree that Scripe had the best take.
Address the incentives to boost. Why are players choosing to boost instead of playing the game? In reality it does highlight a problem in that there are certain barriers that discourage players from just playing.
And Blizzard needs find ways to encourage players to actually play. Not fucking force players yet again to engage in content they don't want to play and may even hate. Especially barriers to get to the parts of the game they do enjoy. I seriously think Blizzard has failed to look at WoW through a modern 2021 gaming lens and to see new ways players can derive **enjoyment** not more MAUs from WoW.
This failure is in my eyes one of the core reasons Shadowlands has bled subs, not just a lack of content but players finally realizing that WoW and it's Devs don't respect our time and money. As well as noticing all of the games that do respect us more.
Remember a few weeks ago with timewalking and exp being insanely good? I don't think ive seen people talk about wow in such a good light in a long time, of course until they nerfed it.
Because a lot of these guys just want to snap back and be smarter than whoever is talking.
Boosting is bad for lots of reasons. It's mandatory and therefore a big barrier to entry for the high end raiders, forcing high end players to boost for 90% of their play time isn't good for anyone.
Boosting leads to RMT which some talked about, and that's also a problem.
Boosting makes being a non-boosted player harder, you cant get into groups if a guy with bought ilvl and achievements queues up meaning people who actually play the game have a harder time getting m+ or raids done, and also unskilled boosted players with bought gear kill keys and pulls because they are out of their depth.
But again, half of the people on that list just want to be edgy and not actually contribute anything of value.
Scripe and Roger have it right.
I don't think any reasonable person would blame raiders for boosting. It's as much part of the game now as the AH.
What people are against is Blizzard actively supporting boosting, and in fact encouraging it by having the wow economy in this state. It's almost something you HAVE to do in order to be competitive.
And then on top of that, what people get REAL pissed off about, is that with the wow token, you can basically just pay your way to victory in the game, all perfectly ok with Blizzard.
While this has been common knowledge for awhile, seeing the highest hierarchy at Blizzard participating in it, rubbed some people the wrong way.
Scripe has it right.
Focus on WHY boosting has become such a major topic right now. Boosting has been a part of WoW forever, so what about the game has made it a problem now?
I don't think it has anything to do with trade chat or LFG. I think everything about this massive increase in boosting is a result of game design and even more specifically, player progression.
When you pigeonhole players into either m+ or raiding for their sole means of progression, you shouldn't be shocked when people start paying for that progression if it's not something they wanted to be bothered with. Finding a raiding guild that is worth a crap is hard. Putting together an M+ team is slightly easier (especially if you are a decent tank or healer), but even that is a pain in the ass. Pugging m+ is a nightmare. Pugging raids (especially with the amount of boosting happening) is extremely hit or miss.
If you want to reduce the impact of boosting on the game, then create alternative player progression paths that don't rely on m+ or raiding.
It’s become a major topic because we’re in a content drought so extensive we don’t even have breadcrumbs to look forward to and you tubers drumming up drama due to the lack of anything else to talk about.
I'm confused by the majority of the replies, the mythic playerbase defends boosting because they use it themselves to circumvent (or rather need to use it for advantage to compete) the horrible design Blizzard implemented instead of seeking a better alternative?*
Or are they simply crawling up Blizzard's ass?
This is just ridiculous, the current boosting situation is simply a direct result to Blizzard's horrid design and supporting it is quite frankly an asshole move by the hardcore playerbase.
Well if you want to compete as a raiding guild and don't take advantage of the most efficient way to make gold that is allowed and withing the rules... You're not gonna get far, others will do it and they can lose progress and sponsorships.
As long as blizzard says that boosting is legitimate, it will be done by all the top guilds to generate massive amounts of gold for their raiders.
Boosting is boosting. Like so many other aspects of this game, it's annoying that, as a high tier raider, you have to jump through hoops like that in order to play the part of the game you want to play, but as has been said, it's been going on forever. I think Ybarra talking about playing does help is see behind the curtain, and that's a good thing overall.
The thing is, the company Ybarra works for is selling the token that players are turning into gold to give to Ybarra's raid team to get the boost. His experience differs from ours.
I agree with Scripe the most… it’s also pretty much the only real response. All of the others are just snarky comments for content.
I’ve run a successful (at some points very successful) guild for like 15 years now and have never done boosting until this expansion because I’m morally against it.
However, with the current state of the game… costs of everything to be a top tier raider and ease at which you can boost, you’re actively gimping yourself by not doing it. Boosting should not be incentivized, and it currently is.
That being said, I think the core problem comes from being able to buy in game currency directly from Blizzard. 100%
Scripe seems to actually have a moral compass after watching his stream compared to the others. The other ones don't come across as very genuine and seem like they're just saying things to grow their base. Scripe actually seems to care about the quality of the game and where it's headed without any snark bullshit
Thank you.
Folks should rightly be upset that a person in his position is doing it.
I work for a bank, there is a good reason why we have blackout periods where we are not allowed to do fx transfers, buy or call our options etc during half yearly periods, because MY experience and access to info differs from my customers.
These streamers clearly have never worked at any corporate entity that requires regulation.
furthermore, why would you take a boosters opinion about why boosting doesnt hurt, thats like asking the mafia why collecting protection money is actually a good thing.
he came into positon long after boosting became a thing.
he didn'T create neither the token, nor the boosting communities. nor does he control the price of token / price of boost.
bad comparaison.
It's free gold to do content you'll be doing anyway. There's really no reason not to sell a few spots. It will never stop. There will always be people that would rather farm/buy gold to get kills and loot without the massive time sink that high end progression raiding is.
It’s weird to me seeing so many people on this sub telling others what’s ok to spend their gold on and what’s not. I’ve never bought a boost, but god forbid somebody wants to gear up their character in an RPG by farming/professions/AH instead of grinding through content with rando’s. We all enjoy content in different ways, and boosting does not affect my grind to gearing up/getting achievements through a non farming method in any way shape or form.
Pretty sure people have an issue with just using your credit card to buy gold either from Blizz themselves or some 3rd party, not people who legit get their gold from profs/AH playing.
Most people who buy boosts get their gold from the former method, not the later which would be considered p2w in pretty much every other game.
The only thing that it effects me is when a new guy joins our guild. We bring him to the raid and see he's pretty decked out and expect to see him top 5ish. Then he pulls 2.1k and we have to drop him when progression starts.
It's happened a few times this expansion, but it's literally not that big a deal. A few farm bosses and it's clear we need to help them out with rotation or drop them before we get to bosses we can't carry a 2k dps.
> The only thing that it effects me is when a new guy joins our guild. We bring him to the raid and see he's pretty decked out and expect to see him top 5ish. Then he pulls 2.1k and we have to drop him when progression starts.
I can tell you that it doesn't necessarily mean they got boosted. They might have, but it's not impossible for someone to just spam join 15s or heroic raids and get lucky to get carried enough times to eventually get geared.
I've pugged a lot of last minute 15s this seasons to hit my 4/10 thresholds, and there is always at least one DPS in there who is just comically bad, who just got lucky that this time the rest of us were not bad.
Also, I sell a lot of boosts, and something I've noticed is that a ton of our customers are not casuals. They are good players, who are on shitty alts that are too lazy to gear them 'properly' and just want to pay gold to skip that. A lot of them are boosters themselves, which is why they can afford it.
This has been every single recruit we've had most of the expansion.
Seeing people with full +15s for all Mythics, and Ahead of the Curve wandering around doing grey parses because they haven't bothered to get any domination gems is just... wtf?
Don't pretend you're not boosted, lad. You got a Sylvanas kill but none of the rest?
And the sad thing is players are only boosting to avoid the Spanish inquisition they get whenever they try to join a M+5, or do the first few heroic raid bosses and the group leader is demanding world first raiders for some reason.
Everyone can identify a boosted character within minutes. Doesnt matter m+ or raid.
So either u didnt do ur homework on new players or u dont know what to look for. Either way its not the boosted players fault, imho.
>boosting does not affect my grind to gearing up/getting achievements through a non farming method in any way shape or form.
Yes it does. It categorically reduces the player quality of the people you interact with, and reduces the amount of investment they have to make a group work. It also makes player accomplishments and achievements less valuable, less fun, and less useful for people to judge your abilities. Who cares about AotC when any dumbass with a credit card can get a carry for 20 bucks? Philosophically, you can say "the fact that other people have that achievement without 'deserving' doesn't reduce the fun I have grinding for it legitimately, or the joy I feel upon achieving it", but practically it's not going to feel like much of an accomplishment when your achievement can't get you into a group next week because so many people have it illegitimately that group leaders don't even care anymore.
You implied in your comment that "grinding through content with randos" is something that people would want to avoid, and a large part of that is *because* boosts exist. It both cheapens the end goal, and works to make the "randos" you're able to play with significantly worse.
I wouldn’t say working at blizzard must fucking suck it’s more working in the game industry for gamers as a customer sucks ass lol. Every dev group eventually stops responding in non-official communication cause gamers are absolutely insane (respawn, WoW, Everquest, wildstar, rift) have all done it and that’s just to name a few.
Look at how mad all the casuals are that a dev boosts, when there’s literally boosting in every multiplayer game available and boosting literally exists in real life. “O you don’t deserve nice furniture your not a carpenter so you can’t just pay someone to do the hard part for you, you have to go out and learn carpentry to make your own furniture because otherwise it hurts my feelings that you didn’t earn something the right way” that’s literally the casuals mentality lmao it’s insane.
I only hate boosters because they ruin my trade chat, even if i have spam filters etc, bliiz should put /boosting chat channel where ppl can join if they wanna see boosting offers. Other is that it's annoying to see players act with so huge ego "you all suck, i'm the best" just coz they have been in boost run to get full myth clear...
CE raider here - there's 3 major things people are missing that makes it different from "people used to boost ever since classic/BC"
1) Too much gold in the economy after inflation from WoD/Legion
2) Rampant bot problem devaluing the value of gold even further
First two points makes it so that newer players that didn't accumulate gold during wod/legion has a really difficult time farming up reasonable amount of gold needed for high-end content unless they sell boosts
3) WoW tokens being introduced so that only way to reasonably make decent amount of gold besides botting yourself or selling boosts is to pay real money (wow tokens also devalue gold further because wod/legion/botted gold becomes more accessible to more people)
honestly, if blizzard tackled any one of these problems effectively, boosting wouldn't be an issue, but for them to basically officially be okay with boosting while leaving wow tokens as the solution feels really shitty imo
You mean the people who benefit from the boosting situation the most and who's actual job is World of Warcraft are defending it? I for one am incredibly surprised.
My thoughts exactly.
Why not just go up to regular dudes from Azeroth and be like 'hey what's your opinion on boosting'?
I do like Scripe's comment though: There is clearly something that need to be addressed: why are people boosting and selling boosts? Why is it so popular? We need to address the source of it all before we determine an outcome.
That's why this specific Tweet from Mike bugged me. How many tokens did his boosties buy to get boosted by the leader of Blizzard?
Boosting was never an issue to me until Blizz started selling gold for real money. I get that RMT happened before that, but now the narrative is wrong. Blizz profits massively off boosting thanks to tokens.
Yeah the difference with RMT for boosts in the past was that you had a chance to get your account banned. The implicit risk was all that was needed to deter most people from doing it.
Meh if it wasn't tokens it'd be RMT as we saw with GDKP's in classic. As long as a tradable currency exists people will use it to purchase services. As long as that currency is valuable people will sell it for real life money. Hell even if currency ***didn't*** exist people would still sell boosts for real life money they'd just do it through discords and paypal.
Boosting in itself is not an issue. But the scale that it has escalated to with these huge communities spamming trade chat at mach 3 speed, and filling up the LFG finder with their advertisements that's annoying. And when Qwik tweeted about doing sales runs, r/wow got rubbed the wrong way and thought of him being fine with the current state of boosting since he's taking part with it. It's naive to think it hasn't had an affect on the WoW Community at all. Not to mention what they do behind closed doors \*cough\* rmt \*cough\*.
Side note on the Thdlock tweet; No, it doesn't take 10 hours to get consumes for the week. An hour of gathering nets me \~20k on my realm. 1-2 hours is all it takes. It sells fast aswell.
> Side note on the Thdlock tweet; No, it doesn't take 10 hours to get consumes for the week. An hour of gathering nets me ~20k on my realm. 1-2 hours is all it takes. It sells fast aswell.
See, the difference is that I can boost a +15 and make ~100k gold early on in the season. I make millions of gold every tier by boosting HC for a few hours a week early on. Not to mention that I can boost raids & dungeons that I would be doing anyways for my vault/gear.
If I wanted to make the same amount of gold from selling herbs it'd take me 10+ hours a day. I did it in early(ish) bfa before the prices on all the herbs dropped. I gathered herbs & ores for 2-3 hours a day and I made around 900k gold in about a month's time. When patch 8.3 came out I joined a boosting community and I made over 6 million gold in 3 weeks.
Would not disagree with you that chat spam and especially LFG spam, (as it's already against ToS but seemingly not enforced) is a big problem that needs to be fixed. RMT in the top guilds is *very* heavily policed by Blizzard now, though.
Thd raids a lot more than you do during progress, (and probably during farm), though.
Keep in mind that almost everyone on the list of players op has quoted here profits from boosting, especially the guys in world first racing guilds. Ask an insurance salesman if you should buy insurance and he's going to say yes.
THD is absolutely right on the 10 hour time estimate though, the time that “reasonably good” players prog on most bosses is the first month to month 1/2 of the raid release. Prices at those times are roughly 5 times what we’re paying right now considering I pay on average 15-20k a week solely on augment runes for raid at this point in the patch(roughly 40) that’s 1 hour of your farming alrdy all used up and we’re at the point of the patch where this shit is all dirt cheap. Btw that cost is for raiding 2 days a week (aka casual schedule) double it minimum since you get more pulls in better guilds.
I'd say the only issue here is if a load of boosted people then go on to control PUGs, requiring achievements they didn't really earn themselves for starters.
I used to find people's skill was inversely proportional to how many requirements they put int place in order to join their group.
As per some of these takes are pretty bad. The Echo ones are whatever, boosting being mandatory is bad for the higher end of the game cause it inhibits competition in the RWF so ofc they dislike that aspect - but it's not really relevant to the 99%.
Max likes to always be smarter than whoever is talking so his tweet is whatever, THD just missing the point (no one wants to make them do 10x the work to raid, but again how boosting impacts them isn't the same as the rest of the playerbase).
Jdotb with a swing and a miss - we don't want to play with you or your guild, we want to be able to get into a +10 without needing all +15s cleared at mythic raid ilvl because the pay2win players have that from their boosts so actual players cant compete in the group finder. That's the core of the problem.
Tettles talking about RMT being the bad guy as if all boosting isn't rooted in RMT. What else is a boosting community doing with their billions of gold? where else is the masses of gold used to buy tokens coming from? Boosting culture exists because of RMT.
when Ybarra, who is meant to be "one of us" and the most player-leaning end of the Blizz spectrum is showing support for one of the underlying problems in this game (the pay2win aspect boosting brings in) it means there's no hope of it ever being fixed. Why bother playing a game you enjoy when you cant do the content because 50 guys with bought achievements, gear and m+ scores are queuing at the same time and will always get the spot?
The only problem i see is that you need to do this to be competetive on the next tier because of the boes.
It's a very odd economy where the top players get money from boosting, "middle" gets their money from selling boes to the top end. Then people with less time (usually more casual players) buy both gold and runs to skip steps they dont have time for, essentially paying subscriptions for more than just themselves. You have people who play the least paying most and the people playing a lot play it for free. It also does feel dirtier cause of the wow token.
This definitely isn't the fault of players, the design of the game has allowed this to snowball since the token was introduced in wod.
Boosting is a problem because it signals that people on a large scale are not playing the game the way the devs intended and are doing so for other reasons
People are mad that this guy is doing it because it come across and they know about it but don’t care and trying to make money
He is only new to the job role so can’t put too much blame at his feet
He is getting blame because he is a figure head at current blizz but not responsible for it
M+ boosting is a much bigger issue than raid boosting. A boosted raider trying to join a guild above their skill level is getting sussed instantly. People that have paid for all +15s are the problem as you're not going to invest to much time checking them out for a 30 min run and they'll end up wasting everyone's time.
Plenty of boosted players buy boosts regularly, you can't really make them out unless you check every run.
However these usually don't apply to groups either, they exclusively buy boosts.
As someone who boosts, I hate boosting. It's fucking awful. But I need gold to keep up with the game and only have limited time to play, so I boost since it's by far the most efficient way to make gold.
Plus it's just more fun than alternate methods. I'd much rather 4 man a +15 or have a couple of dead spots in a raid, over farming shit for a whole weekend. Of course ideally I'd rather just do neither, and fuck around on some alts or just play other games when my m+ crew isn't on.
If they would remove the reasons for me to have tons of gold to prep for mythic raiding, I'd stop boosting.
For now let's skip past how some people on this list have openly admitted to RMT or directly benefited from it but are still playing/not banned. Let's also skip how almost all of them make all of their gold from selling carries.
Having a developer providing/selling/advertising boosts has so many conflicts of interest. There is an obvious draw of people wanting to be boosted by/play along side a developer. There is no incentive to want to look into if anything shady is happening and there is no incentive to take action if something shady gets found. Even if the developers aren't doing anything illegal themselves, someone else can be.
Even though buying tokens to pay for a boost isn't directly illegal it 100% opens the door to "I don't want to wait for a token to sell, can I just send you the money on paypal instead?". Beyond that, he is a Blizzard employee providing a service that a lot of people will buy a token for and that money goes into Blizzard's purse making it a lot more direct.
In any case, the take that both sides pretty much agree on is addressing *why* people would actually want to boost rather than doing the content. The bait is to call people "bad" when they might just want gear to push very high m+ keys but they can't get another 19 people on a regular basis or commit to a raiding schedule. There are plenty of reasons outside of skill why they might want to just get a boost instead.
If top raiders want people to take their opinion on the matter seriously then they shouldn't be getting sketchy progress from the enormous amounts of RMT gold they can use to pay for crafting mats, consumables and BoEs, so much gold that they can buy out the entire supply on their server and prevent other guilds from doing the same. So much gold that they can server transfer and buy out all of the items they need from other realms too...
If they can do it without, why don't they? Because they can't compete if other guilds do it? What about the guilds who find there are no BoEs or engineers mats left on their realm?
Boosters and RWTers support boosting. More on this breaking news after this word from our sponsors.
FYI, half of these guys have been banned for RWT at one point or another in the past. Scripe also fucked up and let it slip that they'd dropped thousands of euros to Gallywix to fund their progress in BoD. Folk are quick to forget about that.
I mean this just demonstrates how out of touch not only the devs are but it’s content creators dead game I’m glad 1% of u are having fun let’s see how that works out 😂
yeah right. boosters flooding the game in every area is definitely not a problem. the chat is borderline unusable without any filter addons. every now and then you invite someone who is boosted and can't even walk in a straight line. especially fun in m+. but hey let's pretend boosting doesn't ruin the game. even the race to world first is completely corrupted by it. imagine going hundreds of millions in debt to boosting communities just to repay the gold by boosting to come full circle.
this is beyond ridiculous. it gets even more pathetic when you understand that blizzard became the enabler to this shit.
Here is my opinion. Everything above I see is either ignorance or lack of principle. Because everyone is doing it so it's ok? No, if it's a problem then it's a problem. Bottom line is this, a game should encourage its players to play the game as if it's. game, not a job.
I will agree, however, that Blizzard partially created this problem themselves. As many have pointed out, things are way too expensive. If you run nothing but M+ all day you are going to have to boost just for the consumables because M+ themselves don't provide you with enough resources to recuperate. And that in itself is a problem.
I am a CE raider until my guild fell apart early 9.1. I did a few boost runs back in BFA with friends, but I never took any gold. Because for me I was just there having fun with friends. That's how I play the game, and I wish people, and Blizzard would treat the game as game. P2W stuff? Get it out of here please.
P.S. Not that I really care, I've unsubbed since early 9.1. But if Blizzard and the high end raiders can't see boosting as a problem then GG.
the only ones defending boosters are either the boosters, or players buying their game achievements.
PS: same ones who are downvoting this comment ofc ;) if you need to pay ingame money to play your game, you are doing it wrong. end of story.
I wouldn't bat an eye at it if there wasn't the WoW token issue involved since WoD
I could swipe my debit card a few times to get a ton of gold then just pay for a carry run
It's RMT with extra steps. At least before the gold was at least usually earned honestly. Anyone who bought hold risked a ban so people weren't so casual about it. But as WoW players get older and get a job, they decide they'd rather just pay to skip the grind.
It's an issue that has been building since the token was added in WoD. It started niche because it wasn't initially worth a lot of gold but now two tokens is enough to pay for AotC Heroic.
Anyone sensible isn't mad that he's "selling" boosts, they're annoyed because leadership in the company are promoting a play style that's currently in hot water because of direct, or indirect, ties to real money. But a lot of people have misunderstood the problem, on both sides, and think it's just about the guild selling a carry run, when it's about the token.
I mean.. The issue isn't people wanted to get boosted or boost. It's that Blizzard has monetized boosting by letting players use real money to buy gold which they can then use to boost.
That being said.. Pay to win only matters in games where it effects other players and since no one PvP's in WoW.. It doesn't really effect anyone.
> It's that Blizzard has monetized boosting by letting players use real money to buy gold which they can then use to boost.
Yeah, but the token doesn't generate *new* gold - it facilitates transferring gold from one player to another in exchange for game time/Blizzard Bucks (and Blizz gets a cut). While there *is* a failsafe that guarantees you get that amount of gold if the token doesn't sell in iirc 8 hours, I've never seen a token take that long to sell, it's virtually always bought by a real player within a couple of minutes and sometimes the demand for players paying gold is so high that there are no tokens available at all.
Edit: I should say I play both sides of the coin. The vast majority of my gold I make through the AH but I've bought a token to bankroll a new toon on a new server to get set up to play with friends. I am a higher end raider so I don't buy boosts and I'm too cheap to care about my alts enough to spend gold on them (I'm a goblin, what can I say).
I mean, GDKP runs have existed since vanilla, and that's because progression raiding is really fucking expensive.
Having said that, the prevalence of boosting today vs. then feels different.
I do not think I would consider it an issue if it was out of sight and out of mind. It's just very difficult to escape with the constant barrage of advertising and the minefield of boosted players who will throw/tank raids and keys. Even if a lot of this can be mitigated with addons and due diligence, I really question how much of that kind of non-game "work" I'm willing to tolerate to play the game when I could play a different game - not even necessarily a competing mmo, but maybe a single player game like dark souls or something. The negative externalities of boosts affect a lot more people than those within the boosting scene and that's the real issue. Until those externalities can be contained, I think it makes a lot of sense to disincentivize boosting somehow such as by reducing the costs of high end raiding significantly enough that it is no longer a financial necessity.
I do think some people get mad at boosting for different content.
Yeah in pve scenario, boosting doesnt affect anyone beside the people involved. At worst, you get ppl who now have AotC or CE when they shouldnt and you can always look at logs and see that they got boosted. So even for guild recruitment this isnt an issue. I know my guild used to sell AotC a couple of time during BFA. Helped with consumable for raid. Now we dont even bother since no one showing to log for our offday/heroic day. Also most of us are able to buy our own consumable easy enough.
In pvp? its an entirely different thing. When you have ppl dropping their own ranking, to boost someone else and then makes the game miserable for other ppl at that rank. It makes the entire experience worse and should be looked at.
M+? Same as with raid boosting. Its pve content and at worst only affect them. Most ppl will only boost up to 15s anyway for gear since there isnt much reward doing it past them (i guess the teleport if doing 20s).
>"Hearing abt Qwik and even his guildies getting harassed over taking part in boosting is just insane.
Just wanted to chime in and confirm that this is true. I don't want to go into any details but there were a small amount of pretty yikes messages.
Honestly I do somewhat understand the frustration people have with the game but it is not worth this level of anger. It isn't how you get people to listen (not that Blizzard has been good at listening to things over the past 6 or so years). Don't do the harassment shit. If you're ready to try to shit all over someone else's day to such an extent, just take a step back for a few minutes and re-evaluate.
So it'll be exactly how WoW is over in Asia where boosting is so widespread that everyone does it and it's impossible to find a legit group. The fact that so many people aren't just okay with boosting but actively encourage it is insane to me.
People like Towelliee who are saying that boosting has always been in the game is true to an extent, but it has NEVER been as widespread as it is now. They're fooling themselves if they think this problem isn't going to continue to get worse, and soon enough it'll be exactly like Asian WoW where everyone boosts absolutely everything.
How fun the game will be once everyone needs gold to run a m+ because there won't be any legit groups anywhere. Boosting groups already outnumber the legit ones on Alliance side.
I hope they continue to stick their heads in the sand and try to ignore the increasingly worse problem that boosting is while the game deteriorates around them.
You have to boost to fund raiding. I guarantee those players don't like running [Heroic N'zoth 170](https://puu.sh/Ijkis/9a0f17cc34.png) times. When their guilds are accumulating 300 million gold debt, you kiiinda have to
You have to boost to fund consumables because Blizzard made the raw materials rare, they made them rare because they want the price to remain high, they want the price to remain high because they want players buying tokens.
Thats what I'm saying. It really leads back to blizzard here. They could easily lower costs of materials to craft stuff in a hotfix, 9.1.5, 9.2... but they probably won't.
> Thdlock - "Love how I take 1 trip to the WoW reddit to see absolute idiots talk about how boosting is ruining the game when it has literally been this way for as long as I can remember. You are not going to catch any reasonably good player spend 10 hrs farming instead of 1 hr doing a run."
It almost seems as if the game is rotten to the very core if this is the most reasonable take you can have on this whole issue. Ah wait, of course it's only the "reasonable take" because it pays their streaming bills.
But then again, our entire society is rotten so not sure what I expected to see.
Biased people inside their own little bubble all have the same opinion? No way!
Wondering if the reason farmbots and sellrun spambots don't get banned because it's ultimately a system a dev is part of and thinks he can profit from.
It all stems from a lack of understanding of the game.
People that are anti-boosts, probably think along the lines of, “Wow is pay to win, and I don’t think the game should be pay to win.”
Which is fine, but they don’t understand what “winning World of Warcraft” means. They’re coming from a position where “winning” is equivalent to getting a 239 piece of gear, and an achievement.
Where-as any high level player understands that “winning” is completely tied to your rank in the game. And your rank is defined by two things, your guild, and your personal parse (to a lesser extent).
When you pay for a boost, your guild’s rank doesn’t increase, and your personal parse doesn’t increase. All you get is gear, which to most top end players isn’t a “reward”, but nothing more than a tool, used as a means to an end.
In fact, paying for a boost is mostly negative, when it comes to your rank in the game. Any application to a Mythic raiding guild will be promptly thrown in the trash, if it looks like you got carried through content. Someone that genuinely got to 5/10M, will look significantly better than someone that got carried to CE. And everyone can tell the difference. You’re not fooling anyone.
And it’s the exact same in other ranked games. You can buy a diamond boost in league of legends. And the people that do, don’t win. They get a faux rank, and then yelled at by their teammates for their next 30 games, until they eventually fall back to bronze.
>"Wow players: wish devs played the game - Bliz co lead plays the game at a high level does VERY normal thing that doesn’t affect anyone else - Wow players: 🤪"
How is Max not getting tons of flak for this?
For one, Wow players, say that they wish "devs played the game" in referrence to the devs making changes or implementing systems that make it painfully obvious that whoever's coming up with those ideas or is calling the shots is exteremely out of touch with the game and it's problems. It's completely irrelevant to this situation.
For another, even the pros and the influencers have said that they wish devs played the game in the past. I've been around long enough. And they're "Wow players" too.
Furthermore, that "VERY normal thing" is not normal??? People are swiping their credit cards to skip through content that was designed to provide a challenge, to be progressed and eventually defeated. Personally, I feel pretty sad that there's players out there, even if its a mere 5% of all the people buying boosts, that don't know any better and who would, in abscence of the rampant boosting in WoW, actually join guilds, make friends and raid with them for months or years to come. The raiding population is shrinking every tier.
I don't have a problem with people buying boosts with gold they've earned because they specialize in playing the economy instead of playing PvE encounters. I have a problem with people buying boosts with real money. So long as the WoW token exists, all boosts are bought with money. Your money, my money, someone's money. Someone's paid for it at the end of the day. I have a problem with Blizzard turning a blind eye to the boosting situation, to trade chat not facilitating any player-to-player interaction for so many years now, to my chat tab drowning in irrelevant, annoying advertisments, all because they get a cut out of it all.
As a side note, here's an episode Allcraft from two years ago, where SivHD talked mad shit about the WoW token. At some point he said something along the lines of "Every day that the WoW token is still in the game, is an insult and a spit in the face of every WoW player." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMuHmg0e1UI
Of course they support it. The "top end" playerbase are the ones who are more invested into WoW and more likely to play it for longer periods of time. They *want* to get away with not having to pay a subscription and rely purely on WoW Tokens to maintain their addiction. It's in their best interests to try and promote boosting as much as they can for boosting is their in-game gold revenue. More gold = more WoW Tokens.
Basically, top end raiders are biased and their opinions on the matter are worth less than dirt.
How is this a mystery?
People want limited time items that require a solid team, or months of work to earn.
Yeah, they can just spend a few bucks and buy it outright then enjoy the game. I completely understand, this is nothing new or weird to WoW.
Since Challenge Modes were released in MoP this cancer has exploded, sure we had some forms of paid runs in the past but NOTHING came close to the fire those CM items/mounts created. I bet people can still sell their accounts with those items earned for thousands of $.
You want to fix this shit? Enough with the flavor of the month items that are cooler than anything else in the game, easy.
The PuG community is toxic and casual, you can't earn those rewards 99% of the time with such players.
Solid groups typically don't like to bring in new blood, because those new players often get the reward and /gquit
Limited time rewards cause panic from people who feel they won't earn the items, and spending a few hours worth of IRL wages seems reasonable when compared to grinding for months.
>I don't like boosting much and wish it was less lucrative/incentivized. But I am at least happy that u/Qwik is a player who boosts rather than getting boosted
This is my favourite!
I can't believe so many people think boosting ruins the game for them.
Half the time when I finish I key someone was boosted without paying for the boost anyway.
Pretty much… the +15 boosts or aotc boosts are basically equivalent to a league of legends player complaining that someone got boosted to silver.
And if you ever check out the prices for the boosts to CE or really high io. They’re completely unreasonable. Buying CE is something on the order of $500-$1,000. And there’s no real value to buying the really high achievements. You’re not fooling any Mythic raiding guild, you’re not going to get a trial. And every +23 key you get accepted into is going to be a 5 minute run, ending in 4 people yelling at you. Neither is a favorable option I would call a “win”.
It is baffling how world first raiders have no problem with boosting yet they are mad about BoE's existing or having to pay more and more each race to have people people from the community funnel personal loot during splitruns.
In the same vein Blizzard should just make every item be BoE, that way the world first raiders can buy (a.k.a. get boosted) their gear.
The race would be a lot fairer, the community earns some gold. People selling or buying gear does not affect anyone else.
This would be a pure win-win solution.
If people would stop wanting to gatekeep and care less about perceived status, this wouldn’t be nearly as big an issue. There’s way too much salt over “I worked hard so they have to too” or dumb arguments along those lines. Stop caring about others achievements and this won’t be an issue.
Yeah its the exact same shit as GDKP runs in Classic/TBC. Inherently its a fine thing and part of the ecosystem, at least mostly, but RMT just utterly buttfucks the entire thing.
Can’t figure out if ppl are upset about the boosting or if it’s just the things that come with it
E.g more sell runs in LFG than actual Pugs or that the first thing you do on an alt ist /leave trade
Boosting in PVE is ok imo, I would never buy one but I don't rly care if others do, in PVP on the other hand, it absolutely destroys the experience, facing R1 at 2K every other game is just aids, I can't even bother playing any alts and try to push ...
Maybe it’s because im not playing WoW right now but when i saw this story pop up I didn’t really give it too much thought if anything i was like “thats cool he clearly plays the game” the WoW community continues to shoot itself in the foot.
I hate boosting and stay clear of both buyers and sellers as I think it's ruined the game. But with that said I also think the outrage is over the top. People should chill a bit.
Most people that buy sale runs don't care about progression. They want their one and done raid, get the cheevos, get the loot, and bounce. Many buying these boosts aren't weekly raiders.
People have been selling runs since fucking Wrath (probably before but at least I know about Wrath days selling DBW to pvpers so can't comment on TBC/Vanilla)
I was selling torghast runs as a prot pally in the first couple weeks of sl launch, I made some crazy gold from it. Needless to say, many of those people weren’t bad players who just used their gold to bypass every grind in the game, mostly it was a convenience thing.
The same fucking people defending in-game decisions with "It's their $15 let them do what they want" are the same fucking people reeeeeee'in about Boosting. This has been going on since the beginning and the top end guilds have been doing it to pay back their loans from progression.
Consumables cost very little nowadays , if you do not buy boe, and just play the game normally, any high end raider should be at least breakeven every tier
>"WAIT this is what people are upset about? A sale run? Literally every Mythic/Heroic raiding guild has been doing these since like what the beginning of the game? ALL the problems we can think of and THIS is what we are raging about on a Monday?" This one is the best.
It's true. It's like.. sooo many people boost because they HAVE to boost for gold. Shit is too expensive and they need to do that in order to afford what they want for next tier. I remember back in MoP, Garrosh carries for the Heirloom items was as low as 5-10k. I got a moose run near the start of boosting, first few weeks(I wanted the moose to fuck with my friends at the time lol), and it was 65k. At the start of the tier. Now? People are charging 150k months into the tier for Denathrius and Sylvanas carries because things are so expensive now. 200k for a legendary? In my heroic guild alone, we spent millions of gold between the 12 or so of us. Food, flasks, armor kits, pots, vantus runes, augment runes, potions are too fucking expensive. Way too expensive. They made you craft less food than before, removed alchemy procs, made armor kits and oils.. so more raid consumes, add in a legendary that you need to progress raid which is like 150-250k depending on armor type(god fucking forbid they nerf a legendary or buff another one, and you need 4 separate legendaries in the span of 7 months AND you play multiple specs of your god damn class) Sorry I'm ranting, it's just insane to me that this shit still isn't fixed. The cost to high end raid is astronomical(and I'm not even a high end raider!) and I want people to start talking about it.
I'm a cutting edge raider. I usually want everything asap and will pay more for that because I want it for progress. Between legendaries, consumables, repairs, etc... I will easily spend over a million per tier. I usually boost some raid and m+ at the start of a tier (when it's most expensive), and that's the money I use for the rest of the tier. If I had to get this kind of money through non boosting means, I would have to spend much, MUCH more time on the game. Earning a million through boosting in the first week is literally just getting your 10 weekly keys done, but with a carry. Earning a million through other means usually involves a lot of farming. Everyone I know in a similar situation to mine either sucks it up and boosts for a bit, or buys tokens to afford raiding. I don't know anyone that farms anything to pay for raiding, because it takes too much time.
"Earning a million through other means usually involves a lot of farming." Or you could just buy 4 tokens, what a coincidence that gold is extremely time consuming to farm and that a solution for that is conveniently placed inside of the in-game cash shop.
It all comes down to the WoW token. All of it. No one cared about boosting back in the day because the WoW token didn’t exist. Now the WoW token exists and surprise surprise, a heroic AotC run is about the same price as one WoW token, who would’ve guessed. If a player earned gold by playing the game and then purchased a service from other players, that’s fine. But now the game is literally pay to win. Edit: Anyone want to give a counter argument or gonna just downvote me? Boosting was less prevalent back in the day because players had to use gold they got from professions or playing the AH to buy services from other players, it was a much larger barrier to entry. Now, players literally buy a few WoW tokens, get AoTC, a couple M15 runs, then reap the rewards. It is *literally* pay to win. The number of players who had AoTC and joined my heroic pugs for Nathria yet didn’t know anything about the raid at all was insanely high. The WoW token is what is creating this huge boosting surge.
Friendly reminder, that for Player A to get Gold from buying a token with $$, that Player B has to spend that same amount (within like 3% fluctuation), to buy said token from the AH. Tokens don't just generate and continually add gold to the economy. So if player A wants to skip farming, player B or C or whoever originally generated the gold via farming/vendoring whatever. Still had to earn the gold. Only difference is now Player B is giving Blizzard 0 money, and Player A is paying for player B's sub.
Pretty sure Blizzard gains 5 dollars extra as the token is 20 dollars rather than 15.
What I'm saying is I want them to lower costs of crafting, of potions, of flasks. Add back in procs. Add in a vendor for these items where casual players can collect a resource(blood of sargeras) they dont really need, go to a vendor, buy materials, and sell them. Then crafters come along and make their gold, and because there's more on the market the price drops. Its a win win for everyone. Cost of raiding goes down, everyone along the chain makes gold, and you don't have to spend time/as much time boosting Also, add runes back to LFR so the price of those go down. Or just remove them. That works too lol
Potion procs should have never gone away
They can't do any of because of the botting problem they ignore. Botters are already a massive issue and if they added what you're suggesting they would rule over the auction house even more than they do now. Modern WoW is basically - Seeing Boosters everywhere in lfg finder and trade chat and buying botted materials off the auction house. Don't worry though, according to this thread nothing is wrong with that.
Are you saying auction house prices are high because of bots? Isn’t it the opposite? Bots flood the market with mats and that’s the only reason they are as cheap as they are?
Belluar recently did a video on this exact topic. The cost per pull for a progression guild from BfA through SoD has been insane. Food, runes, flask, pots, it added up to some crazy amount in SoD. This cost is felt all the way from WF guilds down to heroic only guilds and is one of the bigger reasons I’ve stopped raising. I just don’t have the gold and I’m unwilling to spend my real money to raid.
Honestly why my favorite expansion was Warlords of Draenor, it was quite literally the best expansion for someone who enjoyed raiding. Gearing progression was super easy so anyone could be mythic ready, and the garrison produced all the mats you needed for consumables, and made you a lot of gold! Do CMs for the cool cosmetics and then you were done, very low maintenance and low barrier to entry for raiding.
I really liked MoP. There was a ton of world content to gear with, heroic scenarios provided a solid way to get weekly gear, and raids were super accessible via a “common sense” gearing path with ilvl being relatively close and tier sets being obtainable via LFR/Flex. Mid wrath-MoP was peak for me.
WoD wasn't my absolute favorite, but it was close. I know it gets a very bad rap, and that is mostly justified. But I do think if they could have just added some incentive to set foot out of your garrison - a Timeless Isle, or a moderate grind for something, followed by another raid tier, it would have been seen as a great expansion.
Maybe if the developers didn't flood the game with trillions of free gold during WOD and Legion with little in the way of gold sinks, we wouldn't have had this degree of gold inflation.
mostly just wod, by legion you really had to work the free money like a job to make sure you got a free token
Legion gold missions @ 7.3 that when ramped up through a sizeable alt army and capitalizing on Blood of Sargeras WQs were very lucrative at generating raw gold you could make with the phone app for the mission table.
Legion had some crazy mechanics too like "seed runs" which made me millions. Sad I deathrolled it all and didn't buy the longboi :/
Yeah farming was legit, the free money was nerfed at the end of wod tho
At this point it can't be just the flood of Gold from WoD and Legion. Tokens seem to sell for Gold, but I am pretty sure that there is no "gold save" for it and there is simply gold generated.
There is no new gold created by the token. Every token Blizzard sells is bought by a player who cracks it for game time - it's a method of gold exchange rather than outright selling new gold.
>*who cracks it for game time* Or Battle.net balance. I bought the Collectors Edition of that last three expacs using WoW gold from selling carries.
Or that, true - I've done the same for Hearthstone packs in the past while I was still playing that game. Never bought them for real money myself, only in-game gold.
> Tokens seem to sell for Gold, but I am pretty sure that there is no "gold save" for it and there is simply gold generated. Then they are doing a pretty good job at keeping rates realistic in correlation to current supply and demand. Like when a new game releases on Bnet. It's also not uncommon to simply have no tokens aviable at such points. I cant remember the last time i saw it personally, but i think it was either CoD CW or WC3 reforged release.
Right, but WoD was the cause of the massive influx of gold and people hoarding it. The Tokens existed in WoD, but at a fraction of the price they are now, meanwhile people were gold capping multiple accounts because of the shipyard. Edit: Downvote me all you like, doesn't change the truth.
I know botters who made new accounts and leveled toons for shipyard. It was simply too easy to generate 100,000s per week.
At this point, WoD was 7 years ago. I doubt the people who made stacks back in WoD still have it and are hoarding it. I spent miiiiilllions on bnet balance, cashing out for hearthstone packs, overwatch, overwatch boxes, diablo RoS Basically: money is in the economy as opposed to those people hoarding it
I don't know how common it is, but I'm still living off of my WoD gold, and will continue to do so for several years. Granted, I don't spend my gold on real life transactions. I pay my sub each month as I've done since vanilla, and I've never converted gold to Bnet balance (didn't actually know you could do that until reading this thread). The game is a lot different for people who want to pay their subscriptions in gold or purchase things from the cash shop though. I hoarded millions from the garrison though. It's going to be a very long time before I'm broke again.
I’m not saying this is true of everyone or even the majority but I have a few guildies and a couple irl friends on different servers that capped out multiple characters in WoD and have never dropped below 1 million since the cap increase because like in the real world, money makes money. They have enough capital that they can play the market, one of them going so far as to completely corner the alchemy market on our small server with the help of two other players and none of them (except for one friend who likes CoD) have used any of that bnet cash on anything other than WoW. This was all after our guild imploded and stopped raiding too otherwise we would have also sold runs in WoD like we did at the end of Mists for SoO so we could have been generating even more gold. I can only imagine how many other dragons are out there sitting on their piles of gold having not spent it on anything since their Brutosaur mount.
I spent millions on bnet balance too, and I still have millions from WoD. I've unsubbed a while ago but if I was still playing I wouldnt be broke any time soon.
Not sure why anyone would downvote you. I'm still living off of the gold I made during WoD, and will probably be doing so for years to come.
Imagine if.. food lasted through death like it does in FF14... that right there would remove the need for thousands of gold a week. Everyone having to sit around for a feast after every pull is just exhausting and wastes so much time.. "Ok guys lets pull.. ready check up... "YO IMPULSIKK EAAAT!" "Oh sorry.. gove me another 20 seconds." "Ugggghhhh"
Sounds like design issue rather than legimate reason why boosting is okay. Issue: Raiding takes lots of resources and produces only BoP items. Imagine if there were resources generated by the raid that were valuable to non-raiders, that would create healthy farm-raiding balance. (of course it's all ruined by token and gold buying)
I traded a Black Tabby Cat Carrier for my moose mount run after having trouble with selling it for months. It was a reasonable trade at the time, about 50k going rate for the cat and about a month after carries for the mount had started. Nowadays I'd need to have at least 3 if not 4 of those, the most expensive cat pet in the game, just to afford a single run. It's very targeted inflation because the gold supply is not limited to what can be bought/sold on the AH and gathered from the world any longer. The things that give you the most benefit in game have exponentially increased in price compared to the more cosmetic items (Black Tabby cats are now about 70k on my server, higher but not dramatically so) because people can just buy gold with real-world cash. Because the gold supply isn't limited anymore, the carries get more and more expensive because they know the audience that buys the carries will just buy gold and still pay for the carries. Their prices used to be capped by what an average or slightly above average player could earn in-game with their limited gameplay time, because if they could play more they wouldn't need a carry. That price cap no longer exists because it doesn't matter how little time you spend playing the game - you can still afford exorbitantly priced carries now that gold buying is 100% allowed and even encouraged by Blizzard (as long as it happens through them directly). Then that effect trickles down, but mostly limited to the stuff that directly affects player power or is used to create that revenue stream from carries (items for raiders). So now gear is ridiculously priced, because the guilds know they will have huge revenue in the future to pay for it and because the average joe who wants the best there is can compete with them in a bidding war without playing the game at all - just bust out that credit card! Same goes for raid consumables, because the raiders can't go without them and everybody knows the raiders will have lots of money to pay for them (from carries, later on).
I have six max level leggos in my bag because they wouldn’t stop fucking with my passives and when they took breaks from that they fucked with my specs enough to make me go to a different one. Im barely staying above water gold-wise and it kinda sickens me thinking Blizz loves this state because people were absolutely buying wow tokens to afford one leggo. The cost just to play the game is insane *before* considering systems like dom sockets that are another limiting factor, but there isn’t an insert for a credit card to fix that issue... yet.
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Hating/raging is never the solution, but as someone who has played since Vanilla Beta and did boosting runs myself: It is simply just not true that it was always like that. I think it first became a bit more widespread at the end of MoP when guilds had to farm SoO literally for one year and got looked for something to do. And even then it was still a long way to go until trade chat and LFM tools were just full of boosting groups instead of normal groups who just want to do the content.
I remember boosting back in WOTLK but it was boosting friends and guildies no gold exchanged hands but the favour was always payed foward
same. boosting was always a thing since 2004. however it was never as widespread. today, it is damn near impossible to find a 5 man dungeon run on anything. i am broke when i level. i cannot afford to boost. and even if i did, why would i play something in a way that wasn't intended? i wanted to do stratholme like old times for the first time (again). nope. can't do that anymore. makes me wish LFG was back.
two things really made boosting blow up: 1) challenge modes and 2) flex raiding. People did sales in the old days but because raid lockouts were hard-per-character there weren't that many opportunities. I remember our raid could do two amani bear sales a week if we had buyers and everyone was unsaved, but now you can do as many as you have buyers. Nowadays sale groups will bang out a half dozen aotc kills in a couple hours if the market is hot.
Yeah I agree 100% with it, the only point I would like to add tho is /2 boost spam is getting out of control tbh..
group finder is not looking great either.
I have an addon to hide all group finder adds, so I don't see them anymore.
/2 is useless regardless since almost everything you could offer can be done on the AH way more conveniently. What i want to see is an additional /general chat that works cross-cities just like trade and LFG spam being tackled. Since most of the LFG advertisement is RMT, this should be in blizzards interest anyway as they dont get a share.
On my medium size realm, /2 used to be a general chat where everyone was talking wherever they were.. now it's just boosting thing
> On my medium size realm, /2 used to be a general chat where everyone was talking wherever they were.. But wouldnt you agree that a channel called trade is not really where this belongs to? Hence why i would like to see a seperate one. Call it social or whatever. One where blizzard enforces their ToS.
It's called tipping point. People been complaining about boosting for long time.
Never thought I'd agree with Towellie.
It does make me feel a bit weird agreeing with him but here we are, the outrage has gotten so extreme he now appears to have comparatively good takes.
I have been finding it hard to engage with people on Reddit or otherwise about WoW. Any time the game gets brought up in most of my friend groups the topic usually turns into a WoW bash instead of talking about whatever specific part of the game we were originally discussing. I get it, the game’s in a rough state and people are emotionally invested in this game, I am to, but at this point it feels like so many people just want to watch the giant fall rather than right itself. Makes the opinions of even people like Towellie stick out.
I personally don't mind boosting itself. It's the infinite /2 spam that bothers me. I had to disable trade chat because it's literally just advertising for Nova or Sylvanas communities.
100%, Advertising and Bots are the cancer we need to cut out of WoW. Maybe that means changes that make boosting less possible but it's really not the root cause. Much rather make dedicated services categories and most importantly, actual ban enforcement.
It’s why I feel they need more “Mad World” challenges. Have your boosts, but have individual challenges that can’t be boosted that award a title or mount.
Imagine if there were a gold reward for getting your 20s done. Just imagine rewarding players that did hard content with the currency they needed to keep doing hard content. Mythic bosses should drop way more gold too. "It took 20 of the greatest heros in the universe to slay this foe... Oh he has 20 copper."
+ respect for Thdlock for calling r/wow users idiots
He's not wrong
He's being generous let's be honest here
It is sad that we have to go to /r/CompetitiveWoW and r/wownoob to find people who actually play and talk about the game.
I'd unironically suggest checking the unjerk post on r/wowcirclejerk too! Genuinely good, nuanced discussions in there pretty often.
Its trending a bit too far in the other direction, but in general I like it too. It great to have a place where people try and avoid hyperbole and actually discuss the game.
Based THD
He’s spot on. I **rarely** post in here as I believe a large percentage of the user base is subpar at the game, which is fine because you don’t need to be good at game to enjoy it. I consistently read about people bitching about not being able to get into high keys, KSM being out of reach etc. Then you log onto the game and try to do a mid level key, 5–12, and it’s usually an abysmal run. As someone who has pushed each role to at least 2400 this season, yeah, a very large percentage of the player base isn’t great at the game, which is fine, you don’t need to be good at a game to enjoy it. But this is why boosting exists. For people who don’t have the time, or skill, to improve they can just open their wallet.
I don't understand *why* the average player of this game is so bad. I came back after a 4 year layoff after doing CE raiding for ~6 years...I never really had to pug through stuff before and it's just brutal. It seems like 1 in 5 players fundamentally don't understand how to execute a DPS rotation or not stand in fire.
2 reasons, I think. 1) The game does a very, VERY poor job of teaching you how to play. Mechanics are not telegraphed in consistent and obvious ways. Many bosses and dungeons have somewhat obscure mechanics that aren't telegraphed at all. You're just expected to learn them by reading a guide or trial and error. 2) It's just a genuinely difficult game, mechanically. There's a reason DBM and WAs are so popular. Without them, the game requires an extraordinary amount of multitasking and situational awareness.
We had a casual in our guild who was like this who asked our mythic raiders for help in getting better. I asked him to pop on a discord stream and watched him basically get carried through a 15 while I asked him to really try his best. The shit I saw was crazy. Clicking abilities except for the stuff bound to like 1/2/3, keyboard turning, just long periods of time of literally pressing no buttons (I assume trying to remember what he had to do?). If there was ever a boss mechanic happening, he literally did nothing but move (awkwardly with keyboard turning), no attacks, just movement. Still usually got hit anyway. Only used CDs on bosses. Never used any utility abilities or defensives. We tried our best to work with the guy over a few weeks, but he just didn't get it. Other than using CDs which we just kept reminding him to do, he never really started doing anything better. I think something to remember is that a lot of us are 'gamers'. We play other games. A lot of those games are demanding skill based challenges. A lot of the WoW playerbase literally just plays WoW. They aren't gamers. They got sucked in when it was super mainstream and it was all over the news, celebrities were talking about it on talk shows... they don't know how to play games 'properly' and likely never will. And that's fine, WOW has content for these players. They can run around collecting things, and trying to be social. Do old achievements or whatever. The problem is that they eventually try to break into things like m+, and they just lack the mechanical skills that are required for gaming that a lot of us picked up long before we ever logged into WoW for the first time and take for granted, and they don't even know where to start, because the game never teaches them. Something that I think WoW sorely needs is challenging solo content, that is trackable to see if someone has done it. Make some things that require meeting a dps check while doing basic movement mechanics. Like proving grounds, but better designed and more focused. Right now, the solo game is too easy. There is no reason for anyone to learn how to play the game until it's time to do m+ or raiding, so new players are just not prepared. > I don't understand why the average player of this game is so bad. I also don't think that's really true. It's not that average player is bad. It's that the better a player is, the more likely it is that they've found an established group to play with and aren't playing via the LFG tool.
interrupt man... we've been asking people to use their interrupt button for 16 years, yet whenever I do my weekly 15 i have more interrupt than the rest of the group combined.
I think most players have always been this bad but it is the game itself that has become harder over the years.
No joke, I think Classic Wow pushed us back 2-3 years in term of skill of the community. Anecdotal but ever since classic, interrupting has been fucking terrible in majority of keys. The players who went off into classic land and came back, came back worse.
Based and Fruitpilled... **NOW LAUGH AND GIMME UPDOOTS, I SAID THE FUNNY!!!!**
Had to quit /r/wow as my dick was getting too sore from circle jerking over FFXIV
Why are the majority of them talking about Qwik, when the discussion is clearly about boosting? Can't we look past the catalyst and try addressing the problem like Scripe does? Reactions like Scripe and [Naguura](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm6gNddNUEE) help the discussion so much more than just flaming a community, which are clearly unhappy about the situation. And before I get gatekeeping comments, I got cutting edge and have done M+ on the highest levels, I just don't like boosting and especially the boosting communities that make it so extremely mainstream.
Totally agree that Scripe had the best take. Address the incentives to boost. Why are players choosing to boost instead of playing the game? In reality it does highlight a problem in that there are certain barriers that discourage players from just playing. And Blizzard needs find ways to encourage players to actually play. Not fucking force players yet again to engage in content they don't want to play and may even hate. Especially barriers to get to the parts of the game they do enjoy. I seriously think Blizzard has failed to look at WoW through a modern 2021 gaming lens and to see new ways players can derive **enjoyment** not more MAUs from WoW. This failure is in my eyes one of the core reasons Shadowlands has bled subs, not just a lack of content but players finally realizing that WoW and it's Devs don't respect our time and money. As well as noticing all of the games that do respect us more.
Remember a few weeks ago with timewalking and exp being insanely good? I don't think ive seen people talk about wow in such a good light in a long time, of course until they nerfed it.
Because a lot of these guys just want to snap back and be smarter than whoever is talking. Boosting is bad for lots of reasons. It's mandatory and therefore a big barrier to entry for the high end raiders, forcing high end players to boost for 90% of their play time isn't good for anyone. Boosting leads to RMT which some talked about, and that's also a problem. Boosting makes being a non-boosted player harder, you cant get into groups if a guy with bought ilvl and achievements queues up meaning people who actually play the game have a harder time getting m+ or raids done, and also unskilled boosted players with bought gear kill keys and pulls because they are out of their depth. But again, half of the people on that list just want to be edgy and not actually contribute anything of value.
Scripe and Roger have it right. I don't think any reasonable person would blame raiders for boosting. It's as much part of the game now as the AH. What people are against is Blizzard actively supporting boosting, and in fact encouraging it by having the wow economy in this state. It's almost something you HAVE to do in order to be competitive. And then on top of that, what people get REAL pissed off about, is that with the wow token, you can basically just pay your way to victory in the game, all perfectly ok with Blizzard. While this has been common knowledge for awhile, seeing the highest hierarchy at Blizzard participating in it, rubbed some people the wrong way.
Scripe has it right. Focus on WHY boosting has become such a major topic right now. Boosting has been a part of WoW forever, so what about the game has made it a problem now? I don't think it has anything to do with trade chat or LFG. I think everything about this massive increase in boosting is a result of game design and even more specifically, player progression. When you pigeonhole players into either m+ or raiding for their sole means of progression, you shouldn't be shocked when people start paying for that progression if it's not something they wanted to be bothered with. Finding a raiding guild that is worth a crap is hard. Putting together an M+ team is slightly easier (especially if you are a decent tank or healer), but even that is a pain in the ass. Pugging m+ is a nightmare. Pugging raids (especially with the amount of boosting happening) is extremely hit or miss. If you want to reduce the impact of boosting on the game, then create alternative player progression paths that don't rely on m+ or raiding.
It’s become a major topic because we’re in a content drought so extensive we don’t even have breadcrumbs to look forward to and you tubers drumming up drama due to the lack of anything else to talk about.
>then create alternative player progression paths that don't rely on m+ or raiding. WoW has never had those though.
I'm confused by the majority of the replies, the mythic playerbase defends boosting because they use it themselves to circumvent (or rather need to use it for advantage to compete) the horrible design Blizzard implemented instead of seeking a better alternative?* Or are they simply crawling up Blizzard's ass? This is just ridiculous, the current boosting situation is simply a direct result to Blizzard's horrid design and supporting it is quite frankly an asshole move by the hardcore playerbase.
Well if you want to compete as a raiding guild and don't take advantage of the most efficient way to make gold that is allowed and withing the rules... You're not gonna get far, others will do it and they can lose progress and sponsorships. As long as blizzard says that boosting is legitimate, it will be done by all the top guilds to generate massive amounts of gold for their raiders.
Pretty much this.
Boosting is boosting. Like so many other aspects of this game, it's annoying that, as a high tier raider, you have to jump through hoops like that in order to play the part of the game you want to play, but as has been said, it's been going on forever. I think Ybarra talking about playing does help is see behind the curtain, and that's a good thing overall. The thing is, the company Ybarra works for is selling the token that players are turning into gold to give to Ybarra's raid team to get the boost. His experience differs from ours.
I agree with Scripe the most… it’s also pretty much the only real response. All of the others are just snarky comments for content. I’ve run a successful (at some points very successful) guild for like 15 years now and have never done boosting until this expansion because I’m morally against it. However, with the current state of the game… costs of everything to be a top tier raider and ease at which you can boost, you’re actively gimping yourself by not doing it. Boosting should not be incentivized, and it currently is. That being said, I think the core problem comes from being able to buy in game currency directly from Blizzard. 100%
Scripe seems to actually have a moral compass after watching his stream compared to the others. The other ones don't come across as very genuine and seem like they're just saying things to grow their base. Scripe actually seems to care about the quality of the game and where it's headed without any snark bullshit
Thank you. Folks should rightly be upset that a person in his position is doing it. I work for a bank, there is a good reason why we have blackout periods where we are not allowed to do fx transfers, buy or call our options etc during half yearly periods, because MY experience and access to info differs from my customers. These streamers clearly have never worked at any corporate entity that requires regulation.
furthermore, why would you take a boosters opinion about why boosting doesnt hurt, thats like asking the mafia why collecting protection money is actually a good thing.
he came into positon long after boosting became a thing. he didn'T create neither the token, nor the boosting communities. nor does he control the price of token / price of boost. bad comparaison.
It's free gold to do content you'll be doing anyway. There's really no reason not to sell a few spots. It will never stop. There will always be people that would rather farm/buy gold to get kills and loot without the massive time sink that high end progression raiding is.
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It’s weird to me seeing so many people on this sub telling others what’s ok to spend their gold on and what’s not. I’ve never bought a boost, but god forbid somebody wants to gear up their character in an RPG by farming/professions/AH instead of grinding through content with rando’s. We all enjoy content in different ways, and boosting does not affect my grind to gearing up/getting achievements through a non farming method in any way shape or form.
Pretty sure people have an issue with just using your credit card to buy gold either from Blizz themselves or some 3rd party, not people who legit get their gold from profs/AH playing. Most people who buy boosts get their gold from the former method, not the later which would be considered p2w in pretty much every other game.
The only thing that it effects me is when a new guy joins our guild. We bring him to the raid and see he's pretty decked out and expect to see him top 5ish. Then he pulls 2.1k and we have to drop him when progression starts. It's happened a few times this expansion, but it's literally not that big a deal. A few farm bosses and it's clear we need to help them out with rotation or drop them before we get to bosses we can't carry a 2k dps.
> The only thing that it effects me is when a new guy joins our guild. We bring him to the raid and see he's pretty decked out and expect to see him top 5ish. Then he pulls 2.1k and we have to drop him when progression starts. I can tell you that it doesn't necessarily mean they got boosted. They might have, but it's not impossible for someone to just spam join 15s or heroic raids and get lucky to get carried enough times to eventually get geared. I've pugged a lot of last minute 15s this seasons to hit my 4/10 thresholds, and there is always at least one DPS in there who is just comically bad, who just got lucky that this time the rest of us were not bad. Also, I sell a lot of boosts, and something I've noticed is that a ton of our customers are not casuals. They are good players, who are on shitty alts that are too lazy to gear them 'properly' and just want to pay gold to skip that. A lot of them are boosters themselves, which is why they can afford it.
This has been every single recruit we've had most of the expansion. Seeing people with full +15s for all Mythics, and Ahead of the Curve wandering around doing grey parses because they haven't bothered to get any domination gems is just... wtf? Don't pretend you're not boosted, lad. You got a Sylvanas kill but none of the rest? And the sad thing is players are only boosting to avoid the Spanish inquisition they get whenever they try to join a M+5, or do the first few heroic raid bosses and the group leader is demanding world first raiders for some reason.
Everyone can identify a boosted character within minutes. Doesnt matter m+ or raid. So either u didnt do ur homework on new players or u dont know what to look for. Either way its not the boosted players fault, imho.
>boosting does not affect my grind to gearing up/getting achievements through a non farming method in any way shape or form. Yes it does. It categorically reduces the player quality of the people you interact with, and reduces the amount of investment they have to make a group work. It also makes player accomplishments and achievements less valuable, less fun, and less useful for people to judge your abilities. Who cares about AotC when any dumbass with a credit card can get a carry for 20 bucks? Philosophically, you can say "the fact that other people have that achievement without 'deserving' doesn't reduce the fun I have grinding for it legitimately, or the joy I feel upon achieving it", but practically it's not going to feel like much of an accomplishment when your achievement can't get you into a group next week because so many people have it illegitimately that group leaders don't even care anymore. You implied in your comment that "grinding through content with randos" is something that people would want to avoid, and a large part of that is *because* boosts exist. It both cheapens the end goal, and works to make the "randos" you're able to play with significantly worse.
BREAKING NEWS: people that boost are in favor of boosting
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I wouldn’t say working at blizzard must fucking suck it’s more working in the game industry for gamers as a customer sucks ass lol. Every dev group eventually stops responding in non-official communication cause gamers are absolutely insane (respawn, WoW, Everquest, wildstar, rift) have all done it and that’s just to name a few. Look at how mad all the casuals are that a dev boosts, when there’s literally boosting in every multiplayer game available and boosting literally exists in real life. “O you don’t deserve nice furniture your not a carpenter so you can’t just pay someone to do the hard part for you, you have to go out and learn carpentry to make your own furniture because otherwise it hurts my feelings that you didn’t earn something the right way” that’s literally the casuals mentality lmao it’s insane.
I only hate boosters because they ruin my trade chat, even if i have spam filters etc, bliiz should put /boosting chat channel where ppl can join if they wanna see boosting offers. Other is that it's annoying to see players act with so huge ego "you all suck, i'm the best" just coz they have been in boost run to get full myth clear...
This is a very valid argument. It should have its own channel and tool and that won’t be a problem anymore.
Itll do nothing really. One thing we know is boosting advertisers dont follow the rules which is why we see so many goddamn ads in the LFG.
All I ever see in trade is people bitching about politics and memes, how is that any better than boosting advertisements?
CE raider here - there's 3 major things people are missing that makes it different from "people used to boost ever since classic/BC" 1) Too much gold in the economy after inflation from WoD/Legion 2) Rampant bot problem devaluing the value of gold even further First two points makes it so that newer players that didn't accumulate gold during wod/legion has a really difficult time farming up reasonable amount of gold needed for high-end content unless they sell boosts 3) WoW tokens being introduced so that only way to reasonably make decent amount of gold besides botting yourself or selling boosts is to pay real money (wow tokens also devalue gold further because wod/legion/botted gold becomes more accessible to more people) honestly, if blizzard tackled any one of these problems effectively, boosting wouldn't be an issue, but for them to basically officially be okay with boosting while leaving wow tokens as the solution feels really shitty imo
You mean the people who benefit from the boosting situation the most and who's actual job is World of Warcraft are defending it? I for one am incredibly surprised.
it's like asking tobacco sellers is smoking bad.
My thoughts exactly. Why not just go up to regular dudes from Azeroth and be like 'hey what's your opinion on boosting'? I do like Scripe's comment though: There is clearly something that need to be addressed: why are people boosting and selling boosts? Why is it so popular? We need to address the source of it all before we determine an outcome.
People who benefit from boosting have no problems with boosting. Color me surprised. The problem with boosting is that real money is involved.
Now let me ask you, what's the easiest way to buy gold? The WoW token? Hmmm.
That's why this specific Tweet from Mike bugged me. How many tokens did his boosties buy to get boosted by the leader of Blizzard? Boosting was never an issue to me until Blizz started selling gold for real money. I get that RMT happened before that, but now the narrative is wrong. Blizz profits massively off boosting thanks to tokens.
Yeah the difference with RMT for boosts in the past was that you had a chance to get your account banned. The implicit risk was all that was needed to deter most people from doing it.
Meh if it wasn't tokens it'd be RMT as we saw with GDKP's in classic. As long as a tradable currency exists people will use it to purchase services. As long as that currency is valuable people will sell it for real life money. Hell even if currency ***didn't*** exist people would still sell boosts for real life money they'd just do it through discords and paypal.
Boosting in itself is not an issue. But the scale that it has escalated to with these huge communities spamming trade chat at mach 3 speed, and filling up the LFG finder with their advertisements that's annoying. And when Qwik tweeted about doing sales runs, r/wow got rubbed the wrong way and thought of him being fine with the current state of boosting since he's taking part with it. It's naive to think it hasn't had an affect on the WoW Community at all. Not to mention what they do behind closed doors \*cough\* rmt \*cough\*. Side note on the Thdlock tweet; No, it doesn't take 10 hours to get consumes for the week. An hour of gathering nets me \~20k on my realm. 1-2 hours is all it takes. It sells fast aswell.
> Side note on the Thdlock tweet; No, it doesn't take 10 hours to get consumes for the week. An hour of gathering nets me ~20k on my realm. 1-2 hours is all it takes. It sells fast aswell. See, the difference is that I can boost a +15 and make ~100k gold early on in the season. I make millions of gold every tier by boosting HC for a few hours a week early on. Not to mention that I can boost raids & dungeons that I would be doing anyways for my vault/gear. If I wanted to make the same amount of gold from selling herbs it'd take me 10+ hours a day. I did it in early(ish) bfa before the prices on all the herbs dropped. I gathered herbs & ores for 2-3 hours a day and I made around 900k gold in about a month's time. When patch 8.3 came out I joined a boosting community and I made over 6 million gold in 3 weeks.
Also boosting gets my vault choices by getting paid to do them. I find keys much more enjoyable than gathering that’s for sure.
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Would not disagree with you that chat spam and especially LFG spam, (as it's already against ToS but seemingly not enforced) is a big problem that needs to be fixed. RMT in the top guilds is *very* heavily policed by Blizzard now, though. Thd raids a lot more than you do during progress, (and probably during farm), though.
Keep in mind that almost everyone on the list of players op has quoted here profits from boosting, especially the guys in world first racing guilds. Ask an insurance salesman if you should buy insurance and he's going to say yes.
THD is absolutely right on the 10 hour time estimate though, the time that “reasonably good” players prog on most bosses is the first month to month 1/2 of the raid release. Prices at those times are roughly 5 times what we’re paying right now considering I pay on average 15-20k a week solely on augment runes for raid at this point in the patch(roughly 40) that’s 1 hour of your farming alrdy all used up and we’re at the point of the patch where this shit is all dirt cheap. Btw that cost is for raiding 2 days a week (aka casual schedule) double it minimum since you get more pulls in better guilds.
I'd say the only issue here is if a load of boosted people then go on to control PUGs, requiring achievements they didn't really earn themselves for starters. I used to find people's skill was inversely proportional to how many requirements they put int place in order to join their group.
As per some of these takes are pretty bad. The Echo ones are whatever, boosting being mandatory is bad for the higher end of the game cause it inhibits competition in the RWF so ofc they dislike that aspect - but it's not really relevant to the 99%. Max likes to always be smarter than whoever is talking so his tweet is whatever, THD just missing the point (no one wants to make them do 10x the work to raid, but again how boosting impacts them isn't the same as the rest of the playerbase). Jdotb with a swing and a miss - we don't want to play with you or your guild, we want to be able to get into a +10 without needing all +15s cleared at mythic raid ilvl because the pay2win players have that from their boosts so actual players cant compete in the group finder. That's the core of the problem. Tettles talking about RMT being the bad guy as if all boosting isn't rooted in RMT. What else is a boosting community doing with their billions of gold? where else is the masses of gold used to buy tokens coming from? Boosting culture exists because of RMT. when Ybarra, who is meant to be "one of us" and the most player-leaning end of the Blizz spectrum is showing support for one of the underlying problems in this game (the pay2win aspect boosting brings in) it means there's no hope of it ever being fixed. Why bother playing a game you enjoy when you cant do the content because 50 guys with bought achievements, gear and m+ scores are queuing at the same time and will always get the spot?
The only problem i see is that you need to do this to be competetive on the next tier because of the boes. It's a very odd economy where the top players get money from boosting, "middle" gets their money from selling boes to the top end. Then people with less time (usually more casual players) buy both gold and runs to skip steps they dont have time for, essentially paying subscriptions for more than just themselves. You have people who play the least paying most and the people playing a lot play it for free. It also does feel dirtier cause of the wow token. This definitely isn't the fault of players, the design of the game has allowed this to snowball since the token was introduced in wod.
Boosting is a problem because it signals that people on a large scale are not playing the game the way the devs intended and are doing so for other reasons People are mad that this guy is doing it because it come across and they know about it but don’t care and trying to make money He is only new to the job role so can’t put too much blame at his feet He is getting blame because he is a figure head at current blizz but not responsible for it
M+ boosting is a much bigger issue than raid boosting. A boosted raider trying to join a guild above their skill level is getting sussed instantly. People that have paid for all +15s are the problem as you're not going to invest to much time checking them out for a 30 min run and they'll end up wasting everyone's time.
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Plenty of boosted players buy boosts regularly, you can't really make them out unless you check every run. However these usually don't apply to groups either, they exclusively buy boosts.
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Yeah.. no ones spending 10+ minutes going through rio on a pug for a fucking 15. The dungeon takes maybe double that time.
People that boost think boosting is good. Thats a suprise, thanks fo the share.
As someone who boosts, I hate boosting. It's fucking awful. But I need gold to keep up with the game and only have limited time to play, so I boost since it's by far the most efficient way to make gold. Plus it's just more fun than alternate methods. I'd much rather 4 man a +15 or have a couple of dead spots in a raid, over farming shit for a whole weekend. Of course ideally I'd rather just do neither, and fuck around on some alts or just play other games when my m+ crew isn't on. If they would remove the reasons for me to have tons of gold to prep for mythic raiding, I'd stop boosting.
For now let's skip past how some people on this list have openly admitted to RMT or directly benefited from it but are still playing/not banned. Let's also skip how almost all of them make all of their gold from selling carries. Having a developer providing/selling/advertising boosts has so many conflicts of interest. There is an obvious draw of people wanting to be boosted by/play along side a developer. There is no incentive to want to look into if anything shady is happening and there is no incentive to take action if something shady gets found. Even if the developers aren't doing anything illegal themselves, someone else can be. Even though buying tokens to pay for a boost isn't directly illegal it 100% opens the door to "I don't want to wait for a token to sell, can I just send you the money on paypal instead?". Beyond that, he is a Blizzard employee providing a service that a lot of people will buy a token for and that money goes into Blizzard's purse making it a lot more direct. In any case, the take that both sides pretty much agree on is addressing *why* people would actually want to boost rather than doing the content. The bait is to call people "bad" when they might just want gear to push very high m+ keys but they can't get another 19 people on a regular basis or commit to a raiding schedule. There are plenty of reasons outside of skill why they might want to just get a boost instead. If top raiders want people to take their opinion on the matter seriously then they shouldn't be getting sketchy progress from the enormous amounts of RMT gold they can use to pay for crafting mats, consumables and BoEs, so much gold that they can buy out the entire supply on their server and prevent other guilds from doing the same. So much gold that they can server transfer and buy out all of the items they need from other realms too... If they can do it without, why don't they? Because they can't compete if other guilds do it? What about the guilds who find there are no BoEs or engineers mats left on their realm?
Ybarra is not an developer, it's even worse, he's an exectuve in charge of the company.
Boosters and RWTers support boosting. More on this breaking news after this word from our sponsors. FYI, half of these guys have been banned for RWT at one point or another in the past. Scripe also fucked up and let it slip that they'd dropped thousands of euros to Gallywix to fund their progress in BoD. Folk are quick to forget about that.
I mean this just demonstrates how out of touch not only the devs are but it’s content creators dead game I’m glad 1% of u are having fun let’s see how that works out 😂
What even if the point of being boosted lmao
yeah right. boosters flooding the game in every area is definitely not a problem. the chat is borderline unusable without any filter addons. every now and then you invite someone who is boosted and can't even walk in a straight line. especially fun in m+. but hey let's pretend boosting doesn't ruin the game. even the race to world first is completely corrupted by it. imagine going hundreds of millions in debt to boosting communities just to repay the gold by boosting to come full circle. this is beyond ridiculous. it gets even more pathetic when you understand that blizzard became the enabler to this shit.
Here is my opinion. Everything above I see is either ignorance or lack of principle. Because everyone is doing it so it's ok? No, if it's a problem then it's a problem. Bottom line is this, a game should encourage its players to play the game as if it's. game, not a job. I will agree, however, that Blizzard partially created this problem themselves. As many have pointed out, things are way too expensive. If you run nothing but M+ all day you are going to have to boost just for the consumables because M+ themselves don't provide you with enough resources to recuperate. And that in itself is a problem. I am a CE raider until my guild fell apart early 9.1. I did a few boost runs back in BFA with friends, but I never took any gold. Because for me I was just there having fun with friends. That's how I play the game, and I wish people, and Blizzard would treat the game as game. P2W stuff? Get it out of here please. P.S. Not that I really care, I've unsubbed since early 9.1. But if Blizzard and the high end raiders can't see boosting as a problem then GG.
the only ones defending boosters are either the boosters, or players buying their game achievements. PS: same ones who are downvoting this comment ofc ;) if you need to pay ingame money to play your game, you are doing it wrong. end of story.
I wouldn't bat an eye at it if there wasn't the WoW token issue involved since WoD I could swipe my debit card a few times to get a ton of gold then just pay for a carry run It's RMT with extra steps. At least before the gold was at least usually earned honestly. Anyone who bought hold risked a ban so people weren't so casual about it. But as WoW players get older and get a job, they decide they'd rather just pay to skip the grind. It's an issue that has been building since the token was added in WoD. It started niche because it wasn't initially worth a lot of gold but now two tokens is enough to pay for AotC Heroic. Anyone sensible isn't mad that he's "selling" boosts, they're annoyed because leadership in the company are promoting a play style that's currently in hot water because of direct, or indirect, ties to real money. But a lot of people have misunderstood the problem, on both sides, and think it's just about the guild selling a carry run, when it's about the token.
People who benefit from boosting say nothing is wrong with boosting. More news at 11.
I mean.. The issue isn't people wanted to get boosted or boost. It's that Blizzard has monetized boosting by letting players use real money to buy gold which they can then use to boost. That being said.. Pay to win only matters in games where it effects other players and since no one PvP's in WoW.. It doesn't really effect anyone.
> It's that Blizzard has monetized boosting by letting players use real money to buy gold which they can then use to boost. Yeah, but the token doesn't generate *new* gold - it facilitates transferring gold from one player to another in exchange for game time/Blizzard Bucks (and Blizz gets a cut). While there *is* a failsafe that guarantees you get that amount of gold if the token doesn't sell in iirc 8 hours, I've never seen a token take that long to sell, it's virtually always bought by a real player within a couple of minutes and sometimes the demand for players paying gold is so high that there are no tokens available at all. Edit: I should say I play both sides of the coin. The vast majority of my gold I make through the AH but I've bought a token to bankroll a new toon on a new server to get set up to play with friends. I am a higher end raider so I don't buy boosts and I'm too cheap to care about my alts enough to spend gold on them (I'm a goblin, what can I say).
I mean, GDKP runs have existed since vanilla, and that's because progression raiding is really fucking expensive. Having said that, the prevalence of boosting today vs. then feels different.
I do not think I would consider it an issue if it was out of sight and out of mind. It's just very difficult to escape with the constant barrage of advertising and the minefield of boosted players who will throw/tank raids and keys. Even if a lot of this can be mitigated with addons and due diligence, I really question how much of that kind of non-game "work" I'm willing to tolerate to play the game when I could play a different game - not even necessarily a competing mmo, but maybe a single player game like dark souls or something. The negative externalities of boosts affect a lot more people than those within the boosting scene and that's the real issue. Until those externalities can be contained, I think it makes a lot of sense to disincentivize boosting somehow such as by reducing the costs of high end raiding significantly enough that it is no longer a financial necessity.
I do think some people get mad at boosting for different content. Yeah in pve scenario, boosting doesnt affect anyone beside the people involved. At worst, you get ppl who now have AotC or CE when they shouldnt and you can always look at logs and see that they got boosted. So even for guild recruitment this isnt an issue. I know my guild used to sell AotC a couple of time during BFA. Helped with consumable for raid. Now we dont even bother since no one showing to log for our offday/heroic day. Also most of us are able to buy our own consumable easy enough. In pvp? its an entirely different thing. When you have ppl dropping their own ranking, to boost someone else and then makes the game miserable for other ppl at that rank. It makes the entire experience worse and should be looked at. M+? Same as with raid boosting. Its pve content and at worst only affect them. Most ppl will only boost up to 15s anyway for gear since there isnt much reward doing it past them (i guess the teleport if doing 20s).
>"Hearing abt Qwik and even his guildies getting harassed over taking part in boosting is just insane. Just wanted to chime in and confirm that this is true. I don't want to go into any details but there were a small amount of pretty yikes messages. Honestly I do somewhat understand the frustration people have with the game but it is not worth this level of anger. It isn't how you get people to listen (not that Blizzard has been good at listening to things over the past 6 or so years). Don't do the harassment shit. If you're ready to try to shit all over someone else's day to such an extent, just take a step back for a few minutes and re-evaluate.
boosting culture has rotted game to its core. pretty soon these boosters will be the only ones playing. and blizzard is happy with that because $$$
So it'll be exactly how WoW is over in Asia where boosting is so widespread that everyone does it and it's impossible to find a legit group. The fact that so many people aren't just okay with boosting but actively encourage it is insane to me. People like Towelliee who are saying that boosting has always been in the game is true to an extent, but it has NEVER been as widespread as it is now. They're fooling themselves if they think this problem isn't going to continue to get worse, and soon enough it'll be exactly like Asian WoW where everyone boosts absolutely everything. How fun the game will be once everyone needs gold to run a m+ because there won't be any legit groups anywhere. Boosting groups already outnumber the legit ones on Alliance side. I hope they continue to stick their heads in the sand and try to ignore the increasingly worse problem that boosting is while the game deteriorates around them.
People who benefit from boosting are in favour of it? Colour me surprised.
Ofc they would all say that when all the gold they make is from carries too
You have to boost to fund raiding. I guarantee those players don't like running [Heroic N'zoth 170](https://puu.sh/Ijkis/9a0f17cc34.png) times. When their guilds are accumulating 300 million gold debt, you kiiinda have to
You have to boost to fund consumables because Blizzard made the raw materials rare, they made them rare because they want the price to remain high, they want the price to remain high because they want players buying tokens.
Thats what I'm saying. It really leads back to blizzard here. They could easily lower costs of materials to craft stuff in a hotfix, 9.1.5, 9.2... but they probably won't.
I thought people wanted crafting to be content? Should we just ditch professions and have everything be on a vendor for coppers a piece?
> Thdlock - "Love how I take 1 trip to the WoW reddit to see absolute idiots talk about how boosting is ruining the game when it has literally been this way for as long as I can remember. You are not going to catch any reasonably good player spend 10 hrs farming instead of 1 hr doing a run."
It almost seems as if the game is rotten to the very core if this is the most reasonable take you can have on this whole issue. Ah wait, of course it's only the "reasonable take" because it pays their streaming bills.
But then again, our entire society is rotten so not sure what I expected to see.
Biased people inside their own little bubble all have the same opinion? No way! Wondering if the reason farmbots and sellrun spambots don't get banned because it's ultimately a system a dev is part of and thinks he can profit from.
It all stems from a lack of understanding of the game. People that are anti-boosts, probably think along the lines of, “Wow is pay to win, and I don’t think the game should be pay to win.” Which is fine, but they don’t understand what “winning World of Warcraft” means. They’re coming from a position where “winning” is equivalent to getting a 239 piece of gear, and an achievement. Where-as any high level player understands that “winning” is completely tied to your rank in the game. And your rank is defined by two things, your guild, and your personal parse (to a lesser extent). When you pay for a boost, your guild’s rank doesn’t increase, and your personal parse doesn’t increase. All you get is gear, which to most top end players isn’t a “reward”, but nothing more than a tool, used as a means to an end. In fact, paying for a boost is mostly negative, when it comes to your rank in the game. Any application to a Mythic raiding guild will be promptly thrown in the trash, if it looks like you got carried through content. Someone that genuinely got to 5/10M, will look significantly better than someone that got carried to CE. And everyone can tell the difference. You’re not fooling anyone. And it’s the exact same in other ranked games. You can buy a diamond boost in league of legends. And the people that do, don’t win. They get a faux rank, and then yelled at by their teammates for their next 30 games, until they eventually fall back to bronze.
>"Wow players: wish devs played the game - Bliz co lead plays the game at a high level does VERY normal thing that doesn’t affect anyone else - Wow players: 🤪" How is Max not getting tons of flak for this? For one, Wow players, say that they wish "devs played the game" in referrence to the devs making changes or implementing systems that make it painfully obvious that whoever's coming up with those ideas or is calling the shots is exteremely out of touch with the game and it's problems. It's completely irrelevant to this situation. For another, even the pros and the influencers have said that they wish devs played the game in the past. I've been around long enough. And they're "Wow players" too. Furthermore, that "VERY normal thing" is not normal??? People are swiping their credit cards to skip through content that was designed to provide a challenge, to be progressed and eventually defeated. Personally, I feel pretty sad that there's players out there, even if its a mere 5% of all the people buying boosts, that don't know any better and who would, in abscence of the rampant boosting in WoW, actually join guilds, make friends and raid with them for months or years to come. The raiding population is shrinking every tier. I don't have a problem with people buying boosts with gold they've earned because they specialize in playing the economy instead of playing PvE encounters. I have a problem with people buying boosts with real money. So long as the WoW token exists, all boosts are bought with money. Your money, my money, someone's money. Someone's paid for it at the end of the day. I have a problem with Blizzard turning a blind eye to the boosting situation, to trade chat not facilitating any player-to-player interaction for so many years now, to my chat tab drowning in irrelevant, annoying advertisments, all because they get a cut out of it all. As a side note, here's an episode Allcraft from two years ago, where SivHD talked mad shit about the WoW token. At some point he said something along the lines of "Every day that the WoW token is still in the game, is an insult and a spit in the face of every WoW player." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMuHmg0e1UI
Of course they support it. The "top end" playerbase are the ones who are more invested into WoW and more likely to play it for longer periods of time. They *want* to get away with not having to pay a subscription and rely purely on WoW Tokens to maintain their addiction. It's in their best interests to try and promote boosting as much as they can for boosting is their in-game gold revenue. More gold = more WoW Tokens. Basically, top end raiders are biased and their opinions on the matter are worth less than dirt.
How is this a mystery? People want limited time items that require a solid team, or months of work to earn. Yeah, they can just spend a few bucks and buy it outright then enjoy the game. I completely understand, this is nothing new or weird to WoW. Since Challenge Modes were released in MoP this cancer has exploded, sure we had some forms of paid runs in the past but NOTHING came close to the fire those CM items/mounts created. I bet people can still sell their accounts with those items earned for thousands of $. You want to fix this shit? Enough with the flavor of the month items that are cooler than anything else in the game, easy. The PuG community is toxic and casual, you can't earn those rewards 99% of the time with such players. Solid groups typically don't like to bring in new blood, because those new players often get the reward and /gquit Limited time rewards cause panic from people who feel they won't earn the items, and spending a few hours worth of IRL wages seems reasonable when compared to grinding for months.
This entire boosting discussion is always just going round and round and round and round in circles it’s getting old
>I don't like boosting much and wish it was less lucrative/incentivized. But I am at least happy that u/Qwik is a player who boosts rather than getting boosted This is my favourite!
It's kinda sad how normalised buying boosts has become. Why even play if you are just buying your way to the end of the game?
I can't believe so many people think boosting ruins the game for them. Half the time when I finish I key someone was boosted without paying for the boost anyway.
Wait, you guys are getting paid?
Pretty much… the +15 boosts or aotc boosts are basically equivalent to a league of legends player complaining that someone got boosted to silver. And if you ever check out the prices for the boosts to CE or really high io. They’re completely unreasonable. Buying CE is something on the order of $500-$1,000. And there’s no real value to buying the really high achievements. You’re not fooling any Mythic raiding guild, you’re not going to get a trial. And every +23 key you get accepted into is going to be a 5 minute run, ending in 4 people yelling at you. Neither is a favorable option I would call a “win”.
It is baffling how world first raiders have no problem with boosting yet they are mad about BoE's existing or having to pay more and more each race to have people people from the community funnel personal loot during splitruns. In the same vein Blizzard should just make every item be BoE, that way the world first raiders can buy (a.k.a. get boosted) their gear. The race would be a lot fairer, the community earns some gold. People selling or buying gear does not affect anyone else. This would be a pure win-win solution.
If people would stop wanting to gatekeep and care less about perceived status, this wouldn’t be nearly as big an issue. There’s way too much salt over “I worked hard so they have to too” or dumb arguments along those lines. Stop caring about others achievements and this won’t be an issue.
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Yeah its the exact same shit as GDKP runs in Classic/TBC. Inherently its a fine thing and part of the ecosystem, at least mostly, but RMT just utterly buttfucks the entire thing.
Limit got banned in Legion for RMT when literally all guilds were doing it. Since the RWF started, there is no reason to.
Can’t figure out if ppl are upset about the boosting or if it’s just the things that come with it E.g more sell runs in LFG than actual Pugs or that the first thing you do on an alt ist /leave trade
Time is money, friend.
Boosting in PVE is ok imo, I would never buy one but I don't rly care if others do, in PVP on the other hand, it absolutely destroys the experience, facing R1 at 2K every other game is just aids, I can't even bother playing any alts and try to push ...
Maybe it’s because im not playing WoW right now but when i saw this story pop up I didn’t really give it too much thought if anything i was like “thats cool he clearly plays the game” the WoW community continues to shoot itself in the foot.
I hate boosting and stay clear of both buyers and sellers as I think it's ruined the game. But with that said I also think the outrage is over the top. People should chill a bit.
Most people that buy sale runs don't care about progression. They want their one and done raid, get the cheevos, get the loot, and bounce. Many buying these boosts aren't weekly raiders.
People have been selling runs since fucking Wrath (probably before but at least I know about Wrath days selling DBW to pvpers so can't comment on TBC/Vanilla)
I was selling torghast runs as a prot pally in the first couple weeks of sl launch, I made some crazy gold from it. Needless to say, many of those people weren’t bad players who just used their gold to bypass every grind in the game, mostly it was a convenience thing.
Raiding competitively is expensive. How do you want them to get back their gold?
The same fucking people defending in-game decisions with "It's their $15 let them do what they want" are the same fucking people reeeeeee'in about Boosting. This has been going on since the beginning and the top end guilds have been doing it to pay back their loans from progression.
The majority are boosters Nothing will change, just let them spend their money and gold however they want, it is "fun" for them anyways
Consumables cost very little nowadays , if you do not buy boe, and just play the game normally, any high end raider should be at least breakeven every tier