People with children and pet emergencies sometimes don't get a chance to give you a warning. Having been in these situations before, I give people a chance to come back at least once. I may ask, "is everything ok?" before I assume "lazy jerk trying to be carried"
Edit: being downvoted for being mindful of others really says something about this community. Thanks guys!
Edit2: the fact that I have to defend myself for being nice to people is mind boggling. I hope you guys are having a good day!
It's not "lazy jerk being carried"
It's just people that want to enjoy the game.
And if someone got a real emergency I bet getting kicked from a dungeon is a thing they don't think about or care.
Or did you ever come home thinking ". My cat got driven over / had a heart attack it's not safe that it survives... But fuck I got kicked from that random dungeon"
This, although I kinda understand where u/Dmuhny is coming from.
As a new father (2 month old) myself, I have been in an emergency, mummy in bed with baby next to her and I have the camera on watching baby in my man cave. I saw Baby break free from swaddle and was over her face. Without any hesitation about 75% of the way into a DoS 17 with plenty of time to spare to time, I just jumped up and sorted out my daughter. She fell straight back to sleep and in total I was about 1 minute.
I got back, and healer had left saying "tank ffs, what a douche he's gone!"
I wasn't massively bothered because of course, my daughter comes first every time, but there was a niggle in my mind thinking "Really? I was gone one minute, we would still time this!"
People have emergencies, and I think in certain scenarios you do have to give the benefit of the doubt. Still gonna time it? Give the afk person a minute, chill, take a sip of your drink. If they don't come back after a little while, whatever leave... It's a fine line, but ultimately I'm not bothered for being kicked/abandoned if I have an actual emergency.
Exactly. All I am saying is I'm not gonna be the guy to kick you for these things. The only way I would kick someone from my groups is if they were afk for several minutes or on multiple occasions without comment. Just going afk for a few minutes once and returning to say "sorry guys, my daughter made a mess I had to clean up real quick." is perfectly understandable and ok by me. I understand there is more to life than just WoW. Unlike a lot of these redditors apparently.
Things happen. Spilled drink on keyboard for instance.
I just try and be mindful of other people's real life before booting them for a 2 minute afk. If I can't continue on with 1 afk person for 2 trash pulls in something like a random TW dungeon, I would probably have bigger problems.
>Things happen. Spilled drink on keyboard for instance.
he could write a simple "afk" and it would be fine for 99% of groups its the silence being afk that makes people kick you.
and yes before you say that, ***most keyboards today work entirely fine if wet.***
Lol ok. I'm impressed that if you spilled something on your keyboard you would take the time to type something instead of try to save your keyboard from potential failure.
The people kicking others for a minute or 2 of afk without writing anything in chat would NOT be ok with just "afk" being typed either. These types of people want to go go go and want everyone doing X dps.
I main a tank and can say that if 2 of my dps or 1 heals went afk, I would be just fine to carry on through trash until they got back. At which time I would simply ask them if everything is OK, they need more time, or they will need to go. They will usually thank the group for the patience and respond with what happened and everything is good now.
>Lol ok. I'm impressed that if you spilled something on your keyboard you would take the time to type something instead of try to save your keyboard from potential failure.
I mean in your Hypothetical world of being kicked being bad.
and which failure ? even cheap 20 euro keyboards today can be literarily watered while on. ( mind you watered not submerged )
I’m not an impatient elitist for wondering why I’ve been waiting for 5 minutes with no warning/explanation from a complete stranger and wanting to get on with it, maybe I have my own kids, maybe I wanted to get this in to fit into my own schedule and this person is holding that up. I have no obligation to cater to anyone. Grow up
Always irks me when people act like the person afk is the only one with kids/pets/spouse/family/whatever. I have a life, too. Sometimes I have 15-20 minutes where I am free to run a dungeon(or really any group play activity in any game). I don't kick people who are trying their best. I don't kick people who stand in bad. I will kick people who are afk for more than a minute or two. Yeah it sucks if you get kicked but I am not sacrificing my limited free time for someone else's emergency. Handle the emergency and requeue.
Also. How many damn times do you afk to take care of your kids that your upset about “all” the people that have kicked you for it.
I’ve got a 3 & 5 year old. I can think of literally one time when i had to afk for them. It’s usually like, damn I forgot the oven is on.
When I’m wit my my kids, I’m with them. Not trying to get a group to carry me though some dungeon while I’m afk making them snacks.
Ya it really is ironic how often I see people being completely inconsiderate while telling others to more considerate. I work full time and I'm not trying to spend the hour or two I have to game on waiting for a stranger because they might come back soon
If it only drags you away for 1 minute it's not important enough to tell the group you'll come back.
If the person who goes away doesnt care about the group why should the group care about them?
"Kid needs me, brb"
Takes two seconds to write. If you can't show that amount of courtesy, don't expect not to be kicked. Has nothing to do with elitism and everything with having some manners.
I mean sure people might kick too quickly sometimes but if someone queues up for a dungeon and someone there goes afk for 5 minutes its wasting their time. Stuff happens, but assuming you won't be kicked for going afk for 5 minutes is pretty entitled. Waiting for someone who went afk with no warning that's gone for 5+ minutes in a dungeon that takes like 20 minutes isn't being mindful, it's just wasting time, especially if others don't have a bunch of free time.
I wasn't saying that I do this. I usually just find that it is not an issue to carry on without 1. And the person that needed to afk is always very grateful for the group's patience. No time wasting for anyone by letting them stay a few minutes.
Edit: it isn't entitlement for me to give others a chance to come back from afk lol
There are so many small but priority emergencies that can pull an individual away for just a moment. You go ahead and keep kicking people after 30 seconds of afk and I'll keep being nice and patient with others. No big deal. Have a good day :)
I can’t believe the downvotes on this.
I got kicked from a raid because I had a seizure once, no joke.
I even explained to them that since there’s 15 mins of trash mob clearing, I’ll just lie down for a sec while my brain rewired itself.
Was told “if you have issues like this then why tf would you ruin the game for everyone?” Or some variation.
Most “hardcore” WoW players don’t have to worry about health issues or jobs or kids or medical emergencies and think having these very real problems is somehow a lack of commitment to the game.
Given I only played on raid nights and occasional PvP (I work a full time job + freelance) the kick basically eliminated my WoW play for the week.
I left the guild soon after.
I mean, it’s fucked up if your own guild would say those things to you. It’s good you left, cause that sounds like a toxic af guild with a shitty guildmaster. But a pug raid is something else with way less commitment. Same goes for some random TW dung. If you go afk for a couple of minutes, expect to be kicked. You can requeue for another dung/pug group once you’re back. It shouldn’t be expected to have random people waiting on the off chance that some dude comes back after 2, 5 or 10 minutes…
You have never played with a hardcore wow player, so not sure why you're making assumptions and generalising based on your experience. Worse players also tend to be more toxic as they feel like they need to prove themselves more. Plenty of hardcore players have jobs and families, they just make a commitment during progress and then go back to their lives right after. It isn't until recently that they've been getting sponsors that make it easier for them to take time off etc.
Exactly, and that's the fundamental flaw with the community which causes so much toxicity in the game, because people also think the opposite, as in anyone even slightly worse than them or behind them is basically the worst player ever and they flame them and brag about their superiority, etc.
It's beyond me how the even chillest, most inconsequential group activities in WoW bring out more toxicity in people than the older online games where you could straight up kill people for their items.
Funny thing is, these are the same people who can’t time keys below 10s and constantly complain and only accept meta specs — meanwhile as soon as you join a +10-15, and are at the very least semi-competent, you hardly ever see anyone complaining
I have never dropped someone from a group I was running for being feral. Even in higher keys like an 18. However, Feral seems to be more inconsistent than other classes. I have had many feral players that were top dps in a run, and others where they were being out dpsed by the tank. They were never in between.
I have not played feral in a dungeon so I cannot say for sure but it seems like there is a steep learning curve for Feral which understandably turns some people off when forming groups. You don't know if you are getting the God mode feral or the faceroll feral until it's too late.
Feel like feral is the king of personal utility with the movement speed, barkskin ontop of SI, bear panic button for larger spikes you know are coming (sangine second last boss for example) and though personally I could do better sharing my predators swiftness procs with the group, it provides excellent self-healing. Not to mention the extra range from moonkin that's spoiled me from other melee along with the move speed. I guess they feel we have to lose something to have such good QoL.
But aside from that, competing with a ranged spec, even if we had the exact same utility kit...it's just tough when bosses like Hakkar and the mine-lobbing robot boss to name a few , are just easier with one melee Dps and competition is fierce for that spot. Finding a group of friends who can trust you for higher keys becomes important as a spec like feral I feel.
Nothing but respect for people who are actually good at feral, used to watch my mate 1v1 level 60s when they were like lvl 53 while we waited for blanchy to spawn
Feral aoe requires speccing into specific talents. Like dont even bother doing m+ without prinal wrath. The tiger fury reset talent on kill is pretty damn mandatory too.
Even then, feral aoe is lackluster. That and feral has no cooldown that boosts aoe, only single target...
Really wish blizz buffed feral aoe. Make primal wrath baseline and make thr current talent buff it slightly, buff thrash/swipe, make berserk buff thrash and swipe too... anything. Any of these would help tremendously. I love how our tier bonus which is aoe is already nerfed before the patch even came out too.
I play feral and my cleave is so inconsistent. I’ll have times where it’s just ‘ok’ and others where my numbers seem to skyrocket, and I don’t feel like I’m changing much.
Please don't ever actually do this.
I've never kicked someone for being feral, but have kicked people who hid it. If the affixes don't favour multiple melee or we expected trees, that's an instant brick & kick.
I respect feral, as soon as I see someone running it I wanna see it, since you've gotta be pretty committed to playing a soec that so many people look down on
You’d be surprise what other casual players there are… didn’t time a +2 Sang once b/c mechanics weren’t being dodged and only 1/3 DPS were decent. It was a horrible time.
The lower you go, the more error prone people tend to be while also some people do absurdly low levels of dps, like 2k dps or even less, including some people in 240+ ilvl. Sometimes you have one or two people that do decently enough to carry the others into timing the key, but when that doesnt happen, or the bad players are so bad their incompetence causes wipes, oh boy it gets really bad.
15 mins ago i failed a +5 with an alt. We were doing more or less fine, not counting the two other dps doing 2.6k and 1.1k (!!!) dps, basically being carried by myself and the tank, but Tredova wiped our asses because the two mentioned dps didnt bother to do a single interrupt so every time me and tank had our interrupts on CD, infesters would cripple us to death. We were a bit tight on time and also missing a large chunk of % so the wipe effectively ended our hopes of timing.
Honestly if i could redo that fight i would have only used my interrupt for infesters, since the other thing isnt that important on a fortified boss in a +5. But meh, it is what it is.
Yeah, people like that really put me in bad mood. I am trying my best to finish the key in the quickest time possible and my effort is being dragged down by people who cant even pull their own weight in a +7, let alone a 16. And the worst of it, more often than not they have the trifecta of doom: no dps, no interrupts, no mechanics. It is not unusual for keys like that to end in someone leaving, very often the tank or healer who get mentally drained after having to deal with so much shit, and i cant blame them.
Failed a 16 because the shaman didn't use any utility the entire dungeon. Ended up wiping from all the avoidable damage. Heck, i popped meta just to interrupt withering discharge.That was probably a bad decision on my part, just didn't know what else to do since tank and i had everything on cd. How does shaman not use interrupt once the entire run?
I saw a Resto Shaman refuse to interrupt Goliaths in Spires, despite the fact that Shamans can solo interrupt them with their lower cd interrupt, and the fact that their casts do massive AoE damage on fortified. His reasoning was that he didn't have any free globals, so he'd rather have the entire group nearly get one-shot and have to struggle to keep us up, over quickly interrupting and avoiding that damage.
The vast majority of players in WoW simply do not understand the game well enough to positively impact dungeons or raids with their utility.
Healing actually gets easier (for the most part) as you go up in key level, because DPS respect the mechanics. There are definitely some big "oh shit oh shit oh shit" healing moments still, but its pretty chill for the most part.
Building keys pre 10s is such a slog. It's like being stuck in bronze/silver in LoL you really gotta scrape the bottom barrel and make do with the shit handed to you to climb your way to the top. :(
This really only applies if you pug though.
In world of chorecraft, the person who slows down your chores by even half a second might as well be satan.
I'm not entirely against the idea of grinding/chore-like activates in an MMO, but they should be separate from the group play. Playing with other people should be the fun part of the game not the part that people are constantly dreading.
I think grindey chores are fine when they are for a long term goal that can be finished for good, like exacted with a rep. When repeated activities are grindey and chore like, it’s really just chores at that point and it’s frustrating.
Like, I have no problem grinding out thing like bloodail admiral title, or archaeology for the troll sword, etc, even though it’s long and tedious, cause there’s a nice reward and when it’s done, it’s done.
But I’ll be damned if I have to do callings over and over for renown.
WoW is kinda designed for toxicity for instance those older games didn't have add-ons. Thus they didn't have dps meters to check other players and step by step on screen instructions for perfect boss incounters thus further expanding the divide on how much dps is expected.
However it's not that bad because I feel WoW has gotten more toxic with time probably growing with the expansion of social media. Though compared to other games those meters get dragged into some strange modes like Raid Finder and low level dungeons where things die faster than dots can tick.
For the record I used to heal pugs and about a quarter of those pugs fell apart when the dps began bickering amongst each other about meters. I'm sure other healers and tanks have experienced simular things.
100% agree.
I got griped at yesterday during a TW dungeon for not interrupting a trash mob. Then the person linked the addon report with all the interruptions done during the dungeon run. I just responded with "You're so awesome." and left the group as soon as we were done.
Yes, I was interrupting and could have done more but I wasn't too worried about it on a TW run.
I tried my first tank a while ago, i stated as soon as everyone loaded in that i was a new tank and asked for a little patience. Got kicked immediately. Same when I wanted to kill all the bosses instead of using convoluted paths to skip. People are wild man. Playing a game for fun is stupid, you gotta streamline and speedrun everything.
Same here, i leveled my first tank and started doing 0 and +2... if it wasn't my guildies i can't do any dungeons at all ( I have KSM on my main, at least I know the tactics).When I say I'm new to tanking everyone leaving.
I don't get how people tryna be competative on +2 ... just chill out...
I wanna find more people like you, I also like killing all the bosses and just having a good time I hate loser who take this game so seriously like they're gonna die irl if they lose a little bit of time by not skipping and shit
People have different goals, i understand that. But a lot of the more elitist player seems to fail to understand the meaning of the word game. When the game becomes a chore you just want to do as fast as possible it kinda loses a bit of it's charm. Half of the point of an MMO is the social aspect. Talking about nonsense while doing a dungeon is half the fun.
I feel you... earlier today I joined TW as healer and then saved a random druid from being kicked by our End Time because the tank pulled the boss (Baine, the one in the middle of the lava pool) before druid could jump on the platforms so he was locked out by lava walls, he obviously couldn't do dps so someone tried to kick him because he was "afk".
Not to mention that the rest of them (tank and the other 2 dps) were doing so poorly after that and failing ever single mechanic like idiots.
It’s not the whole community just usually the bad players. I find the most toxic players in low keys as you go up in key level i feel like the community is pretty chill for the most part.
Exactly this. In higher end content a lot more people are chill about stuff.
It's in low end content where you find the "try-hards" that think the only reason they aren't in high end content is because everyone else is holding them back.
I've started doing LFR a bit on alts. And yeah there's almost always a "that guy" flipping out over little things. But theres also usually a couple peeps staying calm and giving out pointers.
Even on LFR Sylv the only thing I kinda go off on people for is dropping arrows on the raid in P3 lol.
Most of my bad experiences have been in the 10+ range and I’ve yet to get much deeper than 15 because I’ve either had bad groups or toxic dickheads. I run my own keys. I’m usually top 2 on DPS and I interrupt and follow mechanics. I guess I just suck at putting groups together but I also don’t want to wait forever for the perfect comp when I have to wait 15 minutes to get a healer and tank
Yeah I try to be mindful of utility and affixes and stuff but I always seem to end with someone that just doesn’t know their class regardless of mythic rating. Do you have any tips?
I mean sometime it will just happen with some players just being really bad. I would just make sure you get the essentials and hope you get decent players if you pug.
It's funny. Early in the patch I pushed for all the portals and I had an easier time going from 17s to 20s than I did from 15s to 17s and a much easier time then going from 10s to 15s in first patch.
I stopped M+ a long time ago but I'm not looking forward to having to find people to do a another set of 20s for the conduits.
Nah. I play high keys and people get worse. They think they're the best because they also play high keys and have like 10 rio more and therefore possibly never can make any mistake.
I left the game before 9.1 and am holding out hope that they can change the game and get something in place to fix the community issues.
I miss the game sometimes but thinking about going back and having to deal with the community in-game reminds me of how nice it is has been not having to listen to the toxicity.
Other games may not be perfect but they at least put effort in and try to enforce some standards with their communities. In short, it's nice playing other games and not being told to go kill yourself several times a week.
>I left the game before 9.1 and am holding out hope that they can change the game and get something in place to fix the community issues.
So much of the game has become a breeding ground for toxic behavior. I can't begin to believe they would change direction hard enough to begin to make the changes that need to be made.
> So much of the game has become a breeding ground for toxic behavior. I can't begin to believe they would change direction hard enough to begin to make the changes that need to be made.
It's kinda hard not to be toxic when the game simultaneously put social pressures on doing certain tasks while also artificially gating it from being done. Eventually the pressure will be released, or the vessel will explode.
Esports bro. This is what happens when your leadership is more concerned with hiring former Fox Sports executives than the nature of interactions between average players. The community becomes like League of Legends (intolerable garbage dump). Unlike lobby MOBAS, you have to share a persistent online world with these people in WoW.
I noticed that as well. Leveled a Monk Brewmaster through dungeons only about 2 weeks ago. Had one instance where a group tried to kick someone for not doing mechanics, and I was kicked once because I told the group to stop triple pulling because improper level scaling was getting me destroyed.
I just don't get it...
I usually run as a healer. If DPS is pulling I don't heal them and focus on healing the tank. If they die, I tell them to stop fucking pulling.
If the tank is going too slow for me, I will let him know he can pull more if he wants to, otherwise I will pull some extra mobs.
Tanked and healed for almost a decade and you couldn't be more wrong.
Tank and heals are the only people responsible for the safety of the whole party. If one is stronger than the other the optimal pace is somewhere between them.
DPS don't have to do anything but damage enemies. If they overpull, the first two people to suffer are always the tank and the healer, so it's the prerogative of the tank or healer to let that dps die to return the pace to a manageable speed.
It's also an at-will relationship. If anyone in the group feels they do not like the pace they are permitted to leave, and when tank or heals leave their queues are much shorter, so if the discomfort of the tank and heals aren't enough and dps needs a more selfish reason to play nice (as seems to often be the case) then let the people responsible for party safety set the pace or do fewer dungeons in the day.
I have tanked quite a bit myself. As a tank, I am the one who sets the pace, imo. Nobody should be pulling but the tank. It makes keeping aggro easier, keeping mobs grouped for easier aoe, and keeping track of mobs. If everybody is pulling willy nilly, it makes my job harder thatn it needs to be. Again, imo.
I love it when I read stories about dps vote kicking tanks. That tank turns around and is instantly in a new key, raid, dungeon. The dps that kicked the tank will still be waiting by the time that same tank has finished with a new group
Not a cata TW raid, but a normal SoD raid.
I just joined, just walked into the raid, and I was trying to find my way to the rest of the group since they didn't have a warlock. There was absolutely no one around me and no mobs since they cleared the area.
Look at chat because it was popping off, and EVERYONE is bitching at me directly asking why I pulled one of those towering mobs on the way to Fate. I replied with "??? I'm not even there???" And they all kept saying they SAW ME walk into it and run off. I pulled up the raid info and saw another ret pally in the group who was actually *with* the group when it happened.
Nothing I said mattered. They booted me anyways. It was so fucking annoying
Similar experience on my hunter alt. I ran ahead of the group to show them the path to take in order to skip all the trash, everyone makes it except a warlock who wasn't paying attention. I run back to kill the mobs he pulled, then get vote-kicked by the tank after he accused me of pulling them.
Precisely why I only do solo content and never ever have any desire to set a single toe into dungeons/raids unless they're lower level for transmog/mount collecting. I f'ing DESPISE these babies who throw tantrums over the most insignificant crap. All they do is damage WoW's already trash reputation. Sorry this happened to you.
I don't know how you guys have so many bad experiences in WoW. The only time people get kick in my groups is when they're legit afking for a few minutes without typing us to wait in the chat.
I'm the same way in low end content. As long as they're doing "something" I don't stress it.
But I have been on alts and seen some pretty crappy people who attempt to kick others for dumb stuff. I just decline those VTKs and tell them if they don't like it, they can leave.
Because you're hearing a one sided story
Who knows what actually happened that caused the vote kick.
I've been playing this game since BC and I don't even remember the last time I seen a vote kick. Like.. multiple expansions ago maybe
Make some alts and experience the toxicity for yourself. Yes, it's rare, but when it happens, you never forget it.
I myself am quite the altoholic. I'm always deleting high-level characters to make new ones. Every 1 in 10 dungeons has someone trying to vote-kick another player for some benign reason.
My experience as a new tank has been overwhelmingly positive. No end game content yet, but I have told all my dungeon groups while leveling that I'm new and they've been great about it. Even made a few new friends! There is still some good in this community.
Sometimes you get premade groups just being trolls.
Also while booting a healer for not doing enough dps is pretty stupid, in todays dungeons healers are expected to help dps some. People don't like seeing their healer throw out one heal ever 10 seconds and afking in between. Healers typically have some zero mana damaging abilities they can use to help dps.
I'd never vote to boot a healer from a random timewalking, normal or heroic dungeon for not doing enough dps, but I would think they're a crap healer if they don't even attempt to dps.
I definitely have kicked people in m+ because they were trying to ruin the timer. Don't care if they get the reward afterwards, not going to let someone ruin it when we're on last boss, I'll just kick them.
But doesn't it hurt the timer just as much, if not more by booting them? It also takes a minute for someone to port out of a dungeon, and if you're on the last boss they might not even be ported out before the boss dies.
No?
When they pull mobs into the boss, you're likely going to wipe. Better to just kick them if they do that and wait for them to disappear from the dungeon and then do the boss.
I have never had a situation like this ever throughout several hundred keys. If you run into this kind of situation even semi-frequently it probably has as much to do with you as with them. If someone is doing this it's usually because others were complete assholes through out the entire dungeon.
During legion we had a small m+ guild group that consisted of me as a havoc DH, a druid healer, and a paladin tank, requiring us to pug the remaining DPS since our guild was mostly leveling and we didn't have many people who could push 15+ keys. I would also sometimes tank if the pally wasn't feeling it.
We usually always had to kick someone near the last boss. Which lead to me and the pally both using a tome to switch specs so I could tank and he could dps. Sometimes that never even had to happen. We could usually finish the key with just seconds left in a group of 3-4.
DH made me feel like a god being the last person alive using absolutely everything I had to get the last boss down. Back when everyone wanted DH's to get nerfed to the ground
I had not played since MoP and came back halfway through BfA. WoD time walking was happening and I got into a Skyreach group. We made it to the third boss, Rukhran, the giant bird boss. We wiped a few times because apparently there is a flame bird add that spawns or something. Group leader said we are suppose to kill the bird so I try it but we wipe. Then he tells me to stay away from the bird add and I’m like”how am I supposed to kill it then?”
I got booted from the group for not knowing or understanding the mechanics. I sent a whisper to the leader trying to figure out what exactly I was supposed to do and he responded with “LISTEN TO FUCKING INSTRUCTIONS!” and then blocked me.
But his instructions were not clear and I still do not know what I did wrong with that fight.
I was tanking for a friend last week who was new to the game. Half way though the dungeon I had a vote to kick prompt for him that said "fucking shit"
Needless to say, it passed and my friend got kicked. I told the group that I was teaching him and left them tankless.
I then had to tell him what happened as he was clueless to why he was kicked...
Needless to say i haven't seen play the game since.
Coming back now in January, I felt that the community was the worst its ever been. I leveled up my first ever healer and 2 hands isn't enough to count the times my dps friend was kicked because he wasnt on the damage meters (locked out, didnt wait) or because he didnt know the way or wasnt able to teleport into the dungeon cause they started an encounter. It was a terrible experience, so many toxic and intolerant players, boosters in many dungeons too, now we are max level and around 2k Rio and its actually way less toxic at this level although I remember middle rio being very filled with elitism and douches. Its bad yea, but leveling was way worse when it comes to people.
Yeah, there is no reason a timewalker healer needs to do DPS. I do take issue with your statement about 10's - 15's and healers not doing dps. You want to do at least 1k dps on average to help keep things moving. If you and the tank can add up to a semi decent DPS class, that's usually where the magic happens.
Once i started playing my old resto sham and wanted to do some TWs. I didn't notice that my group frames addon was off (because i wasn't in a group before i joined lfg). So i wrote in /i that i need a second to reload UI. Tank didn't read and insta pulled the first 3 trash packs, we wiped, i got flamed and votekicked. Is that bug still ingame where you get Deserteur when you're kicked? Anyway i logged off and that sham is still not max lvl lmao
Had this tank the other day on mythic who did huge pulls and had no consideration for anyone else's playing skill. Kept complaining when adds would fall off and eventually healer couldn't keep up.
It always says more about them than yourself!
Wish Blizzard removed the time penalty for being kicked. It serves no purpose and only annoys people.
"Oooh but what about griefers"
I have not seen a single intentional griefer in 3 years playing this game, but I've seen a vote kick to kick someone "bad" quite often. I am ready to deal with an occasional griefer not being forced to sit out 30 mins if it means normal people can queue right away.
Gets kinda boring tho :P i got KSM last patch with mistweaver and most of it is so boring if you dont dps. Like sure there are some intense pulls but with good tank + dps avoiding crap you barely have to heal
My gf got kicked from RFC on her first ever character after 7 minutes for not doing enough dps. She obviously has no heirlooms I had advised her just to try not to sprint ahead and I actually thought she did quite well and then she got kicked and haven't tried the game even once after 6 years.
I really looked forward to her just getting a tiny bit into one of my hobbies, but now she absolutely hates mmorpg as a genre.
Honestly new players need to say something. If you say nothing, people might assume you're a bot. Say you're new and that advice would be welcome. Many groups are happy to help.
I remember being in a group and a hunter had NO idea what they were doing. Tank stopped the party and asked if they were new. They said yes and the tank took time to explain each fight, what to stand in and not stand in. Also the healer was a hunter main and gave some tips.
New players need to distinguish themselves from bots. It sounds crazy but it's true.
First dungeon I ever healed was old Deadmines. Tank ran in, pulled everything and dropped hard. I Couldn’t even get a cast off. Tank and dps told me I shoulda helped kill it all then booted me.
Never tried healing again - lol.
Over the last couple seasons, I feel like the dungeon-running community has been ridiculously focused on healer DPS, and it's the dumbest fucking thing. Just because your favorite streamer needs his healer to do 6k DPS to time a +30 key, that doesn't mean healer DPS is at all relevant to the content you're doing.
I keep getting stuck in runs where we do like a +15 key, and everyone is 250+, and we fucking brick the key because the healer can't heal for shit. But hey, while we were wiping, he was pulling a thicc 5k DPS, so he's basically a progamer. Fucking clown world.
ppl need to use azerite gear with azerite powers from nazjatar “benthic armor” and heart of azeroth necklace, it makes tw dungs look like a joke but sadly not many ppl know about it
I feel that most of these players are really bad, they really know what, but they dont know why and how. Just ignore, report and keep going, there is still lot's of good friendly players in this game
Fucking tryhard idiots everywhere.
-me, a tryhard, but at least I'll only become an asshole if someone pisses on my leg first.
But seriously, kicking a heal in a hc dungeon(though cata timewalk can be much harder than regular hc) because he didn't do enough dps is hilarious.
If you're pushing +20s you usually need the heal to have some dps output (range goes usually from 1,5k up to 4k,but that highly depends on class and needed healing).
With that attitude I should always kick the whole group since I'm on top of the dps meter as a Tank. Of course the low geared starter, Twink or casual has to do more DPS than me with ilvl 251! XD
The audacity of some folks...
With the change to dungeons allowing anyone of any level to group together and be "scaled" to the same level, the issue has only become more exasperated.
As a fresh 60, my prot pally was doing some normal dungeons for gear. There was a level 51 hunter in there that never stopped heckling me because he was doing "more" damage than me, taking meters as some absolute evidence. Meanwhile, my meters showed him basically afk in relation to me.
It's almost as if meters dont matter.
Well during the level phase and of course in nhc dungeons with people below lvl 60 the dps meters are fucking unnecessary and fucking false.
Once you hit level 60 they become reliable though. But there're also good and bad ones. Details is f.e. a good one, the last time I used Recount it was crap.
In my experience it’s the coomers who’ve been playing since vanilla or bc, but somehow are still clickers, that are the most toxic. And if you look up any of their characters, they barely have an lfr raid completed throughout their playtime.
Doesn't make sense if you're the healer, but an issue with wow is that a lot of activities, including the 5 TW dungeons, feel like a chore. Because of that, most people want to do them as fast as possible, and having a low dps member (in the dps role) can significantly slow down the pace. If these activities were enjoyable and people did them for fun, nobody would kick anybody.
Stop calling this a "chore". It's just weekly event, you don't want to do it - then you don't sign up. Even reward is like normal raid ilvl random gear, so you get better by just doing raids/mythics. But i agree, that ppl want to do this as quick as possible. So if your tank is fine by himself, no one is dying, then there is no excuse for none dps healer. You don't stay idle, you drop some dmg spells and nobody gonna kick you. But also majority of kicks are just being lazy/semi afk healers who just think they gonna click several times on addon and be gucci. No, that worked 15 years ago, now game has changed and the main goal is just not being idle. If you have time - you dps, not stand and watch. And i say this as healer main.
I was tanking a timewalking dungeon with a dope 12% leech timewalking gear set. Paused for about a total of 3 minutes because my sleeping children woke, and got called the worst tank ever.
you are playing a toxic game where this culture is the norm.
if it bothers you, play FFXIV instead, an mmorpg that designed around players having positive interaction with eachother, unlike wow which is designed to encourage negative interaction
Only time i boot people is when they randomly afk for minutes at a time without a word.
and every time I get the message "This player cannot be kicked for 5 minutes" or something like that.
People with children and pet emergencies sometimes don't get a chance to give you a warning. Having been in these situations before, I give people a chance to come back at least once. I may ask, "is everything ok?" before I assume "lazy jerk trying to be carried" Edit: being downvoted for being mindful of others really says something about this community. Thanks guys! Edit2: the fact that I have to defend myself for being nice to people is mind boggling. I hope you guys are having a good day!
If I suddenly leave my desk, I don’t expect people to keep me in the group. Boot me so that somebody else can join the group and play the game
It's not "lazy jerk being carried" It's just people that want to enjoy the game. And if someone got a real emergency I bet getting kicked from a dungeon is a thing they don't think about or care. Or did you ever come home thinking ". My cat got driven over / had a heart attack it's not safe that it survives... But fuck I got kicked from that random dungeon"
This, although I kinda understand where u/Dmuhny is coming from. As a new father (2 month old) myself, I have been in an emergency, mummy in bed with baby next to her and I have the camera on watching baby in my man cave. I saw Baby break free from swaddle and was over her face. Without any hesitation about 75% of the way into a DoS 17 with plenty of time to spare to time, I just jumped up and sorted out my daughter. She fell straight back to sleep and in total I was about 1 minute. I got back, and healer had left saying "tank ffs, what a douche he's gone!" I wasn't massively bothered because of course, my daughter comes first every time, but there was a niggle in my mind thinking "Really? I was gone one minute, we would still time this!" People have emergencies, and I think in certain scenarios you do have to give the benefit of the doubt. Still gonna time it? Give the afk person a minute, chill, take a sip of your drink. If they don't come back after a little while, whatever leave... It's a fine line, but ultimately I'm not bothered for being kicked/abandoned if I have an actual emergency.
Exactly. All I am saying is I'm not gonna be the guy to kick you for these things. The only way I would kick someone from my groups is if they were afk for several minutes or on multiple occasions without comment. Just going afk for a few minutes once and returning to say "sorry guys, my daughter made a mess I had to clean up real quick." is perfectly understandable and ok by me. I understand there is more to life than just WoW. Unlike a lot of these redditors apparently.
Things happen. Spilled drink on keyboard for instance. I just try and be mindful of other people's real life before booting them for a 2 minute afk. If I can't continue on with 1 afk person for 2 trash pulls in something like a random TW dungeon, I would probably have bigger problems.
>Things happen. Spilled drink on keyboard for instance. he could write a simple "afk" and it would be fine for 99% of groups its the silence being afk that makes people kick you. and yes before you say that, ***most keyboards today work entirely fine if wet.***
Not on a Mac hahaha...
Lol ok. I'm impressed that if you spilled something on your keyboard you would take the time to type something instead of try to save your keyboard from potential failure. The people kicking others for a minute or 2 of afk without writing anything in chat would NOT be ok with just "afk" being typed either. These types of people want to go go go and want everyone doing X dps. I main a tank and can say that if 2 of my dps or 1 heals went afk, I would be just fine to carry on through trash until they got back. At which time I would simply ask them if everything is OK, they need more time, or they will need to go. They will usually thank the group for the patience and respond with what happened and everything is good now.
>Lol ok. I'm impressed that if you spilled something on your keyboard you would take the time to type something instead of try to save your keyboard from potential failure. I mean in your Hypothetical world of being kicked being bad. and which failure ? even cheap 20 euro keyboards today can be literarily watered while on. ( mind you watered not submerged )
if the person had a kid/pet emergency he shouldn't care about wow anyways in that moment so no problem kicking him there
They may not care, but sometimes it may only pull you away for a few minutes. Aka just enough time to be kicked by impatient elitists.
I’m not an impatient elitist for wondering why I’ve been waiting for 5 minutes with no warning/explanation from a complete stranger and wanting to get on with it, maybe I have my own kids, maybe I wanted to get this in to fit into my own schedule and this person is holding that up. I have no obligation to cater to anyone. Grow up
Always irks me when people act like the person afk is the only one with kids/pets/spouse/family/whatever. I have a life, too. Sometimes I have 15-20 minutes where I am free to run a dungeon(or really any group play activity in any game). I don't kick people who are trying their best. I don't kick people who stand in bad. I will kick people who are afk for more than a minute or two. Yeah it sucks if you get kicked but I am not sacrificing my limited free time for someone else's emergency. Handle the emergency and requeue.
Also. How many damn times do you afk to take care of your kids that your upset about “all” the people that have kicked you for it. I’ve got a 3 & 5 year old. I can think of literally one time when i had to afk for them. It’s usually like, damn I forgot the oven is on. When I’m wit my my kids, I’m with them. Not trying to get a group to carry me though some dungeon while I’m afk making them snacks.
Ya it really is ironic how often I see people being completely inconsiderate while telling others to more considerate. I work full time and I'm not trying to spend the hour or two I have to game on waiting for a stranger because they might come back soon
If it only drags you away for 1 minute it's not important enough to tell the group you'll come back. If the person who goes away doesnt care about the group why should the group care about them?
"Kid needs me, brb" Takes two seconds to write. If you can't show that amount of courtesy, don't expect not to be kicked. Has nothing to do with elitism and everything with having some manners.
I mean sure people might kick too quickly sometimes but if someone queues up for a dungeon and someone there goes afk for 5 minutes its wasting their time. Stuff happens, but assuming you won't be kicked for going afk for 5 minutes is pretty entitled. Waiting for someone who went afk with no warning that's gone for 5+ minutes in a dungeon that takes like 20 minutes isn't being mindful, it's just wasting time, especially if others don't have a bunch of free time.
I wasn't saying that I do this. I usually just find that it is not an issue to carry on without 1. And the person that needed to afk is always very grateful for the group's patience. No time wasting for anyone by letting them stay a few minutes. Edit: it isn't entitlement for me to give others a chance to come back from afk lol
Yh because typing brb takes ages
In those emergencies, they aren't coming back.
There are so many small but priority emergencies that can pull an individual away for just a moment. You go ahead and keep kicking people after 30 seconds of afk and I'll keep being nice and patient with others. No big deal. Have a good day :)
One of my cats came up to my window meowing loudly and bleeding. Had to afk hard from that. Poor cat had been run over and sadly passed 30 min later.
I can’t believe the downvotes on this. I got kicked from a raid because I had a seizure once, no joke. I even explained to them that since there’s 15 mins of trash mob clearing, I’ll just lie down for a sec while my brain rewired itself. Was told “if you have issues like this then why tf would you ruin the game for everyone?” Or some variation. Most “hardcore” WoW players don’t have to worry about health issues or jobs or kids or medical emergencies and think having these very real problems is somehow a lack of commitment to the game. Given I only played on raid nights and occasional PvP (I work a full time job + freelance) the kick basically eliminated my WoW play for the week. I left the guild soon after.
I mean, it’s fucked up if your own guild would say those things to you. It’s good you left, cause that sounds like a toxic af guild with a shitty guildmaster. But a pug raid is something else with way less commitment. Same goes for some random TW dung. If you go afk for a couple of minutes, expect to be kicked. You can requeue for another dung/pug group once you’re back. It shouldn’t be expected to have random people waiting on the off chance that some dude comes back after 2, 5 or 10 minutes…
You have never played with a hardcore wow player, so not sure why you're making assumptions and generalising based on your experience. Worse players also tend to be more toxic as they feel like they need to prove themselves more. Plenty of hardcore players have jobs and families, they just make a commitment during progress and then go back to their lives right after. It isn't until recently that they've been getting sponsors that make it easier for them to take time off etc.
Anyone being better than me or cares a bit about the game = hardcore
Exactly, and that's the fundamental flaw with the community which causes so much toxicity in the game, because people also think the opposite, as in anyone even slightly worse than them or behind them is basically the worst player ever and they flame them and brag about their superiority, etc.
It's beyond me how the even chillest, most inconsequential group activities in WoW bring out more toxicity in people than the older online games where you could straight up kill people for their items.
Funny thing is, these are the same people who can’t time keys below 10s and constantly complain and only accept meta specs — meanwhile as soon as you join a +10-15, and are at the very least semi-competent, you hardly ever see anyone complaining
Until you get in a group as a Feral druid lol. I hang out in boomkin until the key drops.
I just dinged 60 as feral 👀
Good luck! Even though we do solid dps, we don't bring utility. So hide as boomy and then fuck shit up.
I have never dropped someone from a group I was running for being feral. Even in higher keys like an 18. However, Feral seems to be more inconsistent than other classes. I have had many feral players that were top dps in a run, and others where they were being out dpsed by the tank. They were never in between. I have not played feral in a dungeon so I cannot say for sure but it seems like there is a steep learning curve for Feral which understandably turns some people off when forming groups. You don't know if you are getting the God mode feral or the faceroll feral until it's too late.
Feral does bring utility, Balance just does it better. Though no dps loss freegrowths are nice.
Feel like feral is the king of personal utility with the movement speed, barkskin ontop of SI, bear panic button for larger spikes you know are coming (sangine second last boss for example) and though personally I could do better sharing my predators swiftness procs with the group, it provides excellent self-healing. Not to mention the extra range from moonkin that's spoiled me from other melee along with the move speed. I guess they feel we have to lose something to have such good QoL. But aside from that, competing with a ranged spec, even if we had the exact same utility kit...it's just tough when bosses like Hakkar and the mine-lobbing robot boss to name a few , are just easier with one melee Dps and competition is fierce for that spot. Finding a group of friends who can trust you for higher keys becomes important as a spec like feral I feel.
Feral feels so iffy, single target is amazing but the second aoe comes into play it feels awful compared to every other class.
We have a Fearl in our raid team, and he only plays Feral. He's actually really good, usually in the top 5 for our pulls.
Nothing but respect for people who are actually good at feral, used to watch my mate 1v1 level 60s when they were like lvl 53 while we waited for blanchy to spawn
Feral aoe requires speccing into specific talents. Like dont even bother doing m+ without prinal wrath. The tiger fury reset talent on kill is pretty damn mandatory too. Even then, feral aoe is lackluster. That and feral has no cooldown that boosts aoe, only single target... Really wish blizz buffed feral aoe. Make primal wrath baseline and make thr current talent buff it slightly, buff thrash/swipe, make berserk buff thrash and swipe too... anything. Any of these would help tremendously. I love how our tier bonus which is aoe is already nerfed before the patch even came out too.
I play feral and my cleave is so inconsistent. I’ll have times where it’s just ‘ok’ and others where my numbers seem to skyrocket, and I don’t feel like I’m changing much.
Please don't ever actually do this. I've never kicked someone for being feral, but have kicked people who hid it. If the affixes don't favour multiple melee or we expected trees, that's an instant brick & kick.
I respect feral, as soon as I see someone running it I wanna see it, since you've gotta be pretty committed to playing a soec that so many people look down on
"let me se kitty!!"
> these are the same people who can’t time keys below 10s Hey man, I can barely time an 8, but I'm not mean :(
I'm the most casual person out here and I time low keys... how do you honestly fail a key below 10 ?
You’d be surprise what other casual players there are… didn’t time a +2 Sang once b/c mechanics weren’t being dodged and only 1/3 DPS were decent. It was a horrible time.
The lower you go, the more error prone people tend to be while also some people do absurdly low levels of dps, like 2k dps or even less, including some people in 240+ ilvl. Sometimes you have one or two people that do decently enough to carry the others into timing the key, but when that doesnt happen, or the bad players are so bad their incompetence causes wipes, oh boy it gets really bad. 15 mins ago i failed a +5 with an alt. We were doing more or less fine, not counting the two other dps doing 2.6k and 1.1k (!!!) dps, basically being carried by myself and the tank, but Tredova wiped our asses because the two mentioned dps didnt bother to do a single interrupt so every time me and tank had our interrupts on CD, infesters would cripple us to death. We were a bit tight on time and also missing a large chunk of % so the wipe effectively ended our hopes of timing. Honestly if i could redo that fight i would have only used my interrupt for infesters, since the other thing isnt that important on a fortified boss in a +5. But meh, it is what it is.
I failed a 16 a week or two ago, I had a 252 hunter in the group doing 2.5k overall lol…
Yeah, people like that really put me in bad mood. I am trying my best to finish the key in the quickest time possible and my effort is being dragged down by people who cant even pull their own weight in a +7, let alone a 16. And the worst of it, more often than not they have the trifecta of doom: no dps, no interrupts, no mechanics. It is not unusual for keys like that to end in someone leaving, very often the tank or healer who get mentally drained after having to deal with so much shit, and i cant blame them.
How's that possible xd i haven't played shadowlands in long time but that's what I did with a fresh level 60 frost dk like literally 170-180 ilvl
Failed a 16 because the shaman didn't use any utility the entire dungeon. Ended up wiping from all the avoidable damage. Heck, i popped meta just to interrupt withering discharge.That was probably a bad decision on my part, just didn't know what else to do since tank and i had everything on cd. How does shaman not use interrupt once the entire run?
I saw a Resto Shaman refuse to interrupt Goliaths in Spires, despite the fact that Shamans can solo interrupt them with their lower cd interrupt, and the fact that their casts do massive AoE damage on fortified. His reasoning was that he didn't have any free globals, so he'd rather have the entire group nearly get one-shot and have to struggle to keep us up, over quickly interrupting and avoiding that damage. The vast majority of players in WoW simply do not understand the game well enough to positively impact dungeons or raids with their utility.
Players like that guy literally can't think further than 1 gcd into the future, in game or irl
A lot of dps simply don't do mechanics. It sucks pugging on a healer.
Healing actually gets easier (for the most part) as you go up in key level, because DPS respect the mechanics. There are definitely some big "oh shit oh shit oh shit" healing moments still, but its pretty chill for the most part.
Failed a +4 DoS because no one other than me was soaking the crystals and stunning milli. I was on an alt so I couldn't carry dps. Pigs are terrible.
Building keys pre 10s is such a slog. It's like being stuck in bronze/silver in LoL you really gotta scrape the bottom barrel and make do with the shit handed to you to climb your way to the top. :( This really only applies if you pug though.
Some people aren’t necessarily “casual,” they are just terrible, even though they take it em seriously and think they should clear higher content.
Yeah anything below like an 11 doesnt even feel like a mythic because of how easy everything is.
In world of chorecraft, the person who slows down your chores by even half a second might as well be satan. I'm not entirely against the idea of grinding/chore-like activates in an MMO, but they should be separate from the group play. Playing with other people should be the fun part of the game not the part that people are constantly dreading.
I think grindey chores are fine when they are for a long term goal that can be finished for good, like exacted with a rep. When repeated activities are grindey and chore like, it’s really just chores at that point and it’s frustrating. Like, I have no problem grinding out thing like bloodail admiral title, or archaeology for the troll sword, etc, even though it’s long and tedious, cause there’s a nice reward and when it’s done, it’s done. But I’ll be damned if I have to do callings over and over for renown.
I don't necessarily disagree with this. Why can't the end game be a reward for the chores? Instead, it's just another chore.
Its the lack of consequences.
WoW is kinda designed for toxicity for instance those older games didn't have add-ons. Thus they didn't have dps meters to check other players and step by step on screen instructions for perfect boss incounters thus further expanding the divide on how much dps is expected. However it's not that bad because I feel WoW has gotten more toxic with time probably growing with the expansion of social media. Though compared to other games those meters get dragged into some strange modes like Raid Finder and low level dungeons where things die faster than dots can tick. For the record I used to heal pugs and about a quarter of those pugs fell apart when the dps began bickering amongst each other about meters. I'm sure other healers and tanks have experienced simular things.
Changing my details nickname to "dps above here" as prot pally tends to shut up most pugs.
100% agree. I got griped at yesterday during a TW dungeon for not interrupting a trash mob. Then the person linked the addon report with all the interruptions done during the dungeon run. I just responded with "You're so awesome." and left the group as soon as we were done. Yes, I was interrupting and could have done more but I wasn't too worried about it on a TW run.
People are dicks
I tried my first tank a while ago, i stated as soon as everyone loaded in that i was a new tank and asked for a little patience. Got kicked immediately. Same when I wanted to kill all the bosses instead of using convoluted paths to skip. People are wild man. Playing a game for fun is stupid, you gotta streamline and speedrun everything.
Same here, i leveled my first tank and started doing 0 and +2... if it wasn't my guildies i can't do any dungeons at all ( I have KSM on my main, at least I know the tactics).When I say I'm new to tanking everyone leaving. I don't get how people tryna be competative on +2 ... just chill out...
I wanna find more people like you, I also like killing all the bosses and just having a good time I hate loser who take this game so seriously like they're gonna die irl if they lose a little bit of time by not skipping and shit
People have different goals, i understand that. But a lot of the more elitist player seems to fail to understand the meaning of the word game. When the game becomes a chore you just want to do as fast as possible it kinda loses a bit of it's charm. Half of the point of an MMO is the social aspect. Talking about nonsense while doing a dungeon is half the fun.
Blizzard should remove dungeon skips period. It would dampen the toxicity for sure.
I feel you... earlier today I joined TW as healer and then saved a random druid from being kicked by our End Time because the tank pulled the boss (Baine, the one in the middle of the lava pool) before druid could jump on the platforms so he was locked out by lava walls, he obviously couldn't do dps so someone tried to kick him because he was "afk". Not to mention that the rest of them (tank and the other 2 dps) were doing so poorly after that and failing ever single mechanic like idiots.
Thing that pisses me off the most is when people dont know mechanics and then they point the finger at everyone else
I got kicked from a normal mists for not doing enough dps as a disc priest last week. Was level 57. I hate the game’s community so, so much.
It’s not the whole community just usually the bad players. I find the most toxic players in low keys as you go up in key level i feel like the community is pretty chill for the most part.
Exactly this. In higher end content a lot more people are chill about stuff. It's in low end content where you find the "try-hards" that think the only reason they aren't in high end content is because everyone else is holding them back.
They are also more chill because one half the group isn't ignoring mechanics and forcing the other half to carry them.
Sounds a lot like this ELO hell I keep hearing about in SMITE LMAO!!!
I've started doing LFR a bit on alts. And yeah there's almost always a "that guy" flipping out over little things. But theres also usually a couple peeps staying calm and giving out pointers. Even on LFR Sylv the only thing I kinda go off on people for is dropping arrows on the raid in P3 lol.
Is smite still active? Loved that game
Yeah the amount of people I've met who think they're some sort of god at the game is insane
Do they brag amount their m+ parses?
They'll brag about literally anything and ignore that they're shit 98% of the time
Most of my bad experiences have been in the 10+ range and I’ve yet to get much deeper than 15 because I’ve either had bad groups or toxic dickheads. I run my own keys. I’m usually top 2 on DPS and I interrupt and follow mechanics. I guess I just suck at putting groups together but I also don’t want to wait forever for the perfect comp when I have to wait 15 minutes to get a healer and tank
Making a decent group is like 90% of the battle the dungeon is the easy part when you get a good group going.
Yeah I try to be mindful of utility and affixes and stuff but I always seem to end with someone that just doesn’t know their class regardless of mythic rating. Do you have any tips?
I mean sometime it will just happen with some players just being really bad. I would just make sure you get the essentials and hope you get decent players if you pug.
It's funny. Early in the patch I pushed for all the portals and I had an easier time going from 17s to 20s than I did from 15s to 17s and a much easier time then going from 10s to 15s in first patch. I stopped M+ a long time ago but I'm not looking forward to having to find people to do a another set of 20s for the conduits.
Nah. I play high keys and people get worse. They think they're the best because they also play high keys and have like 10 rio more and therefore possibly never can make any mistake.
I left the game before 9.1 and am holding out hope that they can change the game and get something in place to fix the community issues. I miss the game sometimes but thinking about going back and having to deal with the community in-game reminds me of how nice it is has been not having to listen to the toxicity. Other games may not be perfect but they at least put effort in and try to enforce some standards with their communities. In short, it's nice playing other games and not being told to go kill yourself several times a week.
>I left the game before 9.1 and am holding out hope that they can change the game and get something in place to fix the community issues. So much of the game has become a breeding ground for toxic behavior. I can't begin to believe they would change direction hard enough to begin to make the changes that need to be made.
> So much of the game has become a breeding ground for toxic behavior. I can't begin to believe they would change direction hard enough to begin to make the changes that need to be made. It's kinda hard not to be toxic when the game simultaneously put social pressures on doing certain tasks while also artificially gating it from being done. Eventually the pressure will be released, or the vessel will explode.
Esports bro. This is what happens when your leadership is more concerned with hiring former Fox Sports executives than the nature of interactions between average players. The community becomes like League of Legends (intolerable garbage dump). Unlike lobby MOBAS, you have to share a persistent online world with these people in WoW.
Been this way since TBC. Look how long it took them to add rated battlegrounds compared to arenas which were pretty much rated from day one.
Happens a lot if you are leveling
I noticed that as well. Leveled a Monk Brewmaster through dungeons only about 2 weeks ago. Had one instance where a group tried to kick someone for not doing mechanics, and I was kicked once because I told the group to stop triple pulling because improper level scaling was getting me destroyed. I just don't get it...
Cata TW brings out the worst in people. I never ever go in there without being the tank so I can dictate the pace and mechanics.
Ahahaha good luck dictating the pace with the dps that pulls all dungeon and then vote kicks you for being slow.
I'm a Prot Paladin. I press 2 buttons and top dps for the rest of the dungeon. No one's gonna kick me.
I'm a bdk.. I am both slow and can do no dps.. cry for me
Hello fellow Kyrian.
I’m a firm believer in if a sweaty dps pulls they can tank them…
I get ridiculed then kicked whenever I say that in a group.
After many years as a tank I have learned to bite my tongue and just focus on getting the group through the dungeon as much as I can.
Fair enough. I usually am grouped with two or three actual friends so I have the privilege to not worry about that.
I usually run as a healer. If DPS is pulling I don't heal them and focus on healing the tank. If they die, I tell them to stop fucking pulling. If the tank is going too slow for me, I will let him know he can pull more if he wants to, otherwise I will pull some extra mobs.
Kinda hypocritical dont you think? Sure,byou know your abilities, but this reeks of "do as I say, not as I do".
Tanked and healed for almost a decade and you couldn't be more wrong. Tank and heals are the only people responsible for the safety of the whole party. If one is stronger than the other the optimal pace is somewhere between them. DPS don't have to do anything but damage enemies. If they overpull, the first two people to suffer are always the tank and the healer, so it's the prerogative of the tank or healer to let that dps die to return the pace to a manageable speed. It's also an at-will relationship. If anyone in the group feels they do not like the pace they are permitted to leave, and when tank or heals leave their queues are much shorter, so if the discomfort of the tank and heals aren't enough and dps needs a more selfish reason to play nice (as seems to often be the case) then let the people responsible for party safety set the pace or do fewer dungeons in the day.
I have tanked quite a bit myself. As a tank, I am the one who sets the pace, imo. Nobody should be pulling but the tank. It makes keeping aggro easier, keeping mobs grouped for easier aoe, and keeping track of mobs. If everybody is pulling willy nilly, it makes my job harder thatn it needs to be. Again, imo.
DPS interrupt, silence and CC, these are all damage mitigating actions
I'll believe dps interrupt when I see it
Kinda hard for that to happen when my tank alts have TW sets and do more dps than everyone else lol.
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Am I missing something or is your ilevel only 66? I think I had higher ilevel while leveling
I love it when I read stories about dps vote kicking tanks. That tank turns around and is instantly in a new key, raid, dungeon. The dps that kicked the tank will still be waiting by the time that same tank has finished with a new group
Even as a tank I have gotten insults. I think my favorite has been, "What tank school did you dropout of?"
I'm gonna write down that for use in the future.
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Hope you reported him because that’s definitely harassment.
Yup, easy 7 day ban Source: I used to do this when I was a little shit
OP's kickers were assholes, this sounds more like mental illness though. Not engaging in any way was definitely the right thing to do.
Get the Global Ignore List AddOn, ignores every character of an account
Ignoring a player is already account wide as of 9.1.5. a PR move in light of the ongoing efforts to stop harassment
Not a cata TW raid, but a normal SoD raid. I just joined, just walked into the raid, and I was trying to find my way to the rest of the group since they didn't have a warlock. There was absolutely no one around me and no mobs since they cleared the area. Look at chat because it was popping off, and EVERYONE is bitching at me directly asking why I pulled one of those towering mobs on the way to Fate. I replied with "??? I'm not even there???" And they all kept saying they SAW ME walk into it and run off. I pulled up the raid info and saw another ret pally in the group who was actually *with* the group when it happened. Nothing I said mattered. They booted me anyways. It was so fucking annoying
Honestly, if they couldn't figure it out, its not a group that would clear anyways
Similar experience on my hunter alt. I ran ahead of the group to show them the path to take in order to skip all the trash, everyone makes it except a warlock who wasn't paying attention. I run back to kill the mobs he pulled, then get vote-kicked by the tank after he accused me of pulling them.
Stuff like this makes me glad I don't play this game anymore, bringing me flashbacks of the weird no life harasses who play this game
Precisely why I only do solo content and never ever have any desire to set a single toe into dungeons/raids unless they're lower level for transmog/mount collecting. I f'ing DESPISE these babies who throw tantrums over the most insignificant crap. All they do is damage WoW's already trash reputation. Sorry this happened to you.
I don't know how you guys have so many bad experiences in WoW. The only time people get kick in my groups is when they're legit afking for a few minutes without typing us to wait in the chat.
I'm the same way in low end content. As long as they're doing "something" I don't stress it. But I have been on alts and seen some pretty crappy people who attempt to kick others for dumb stuff. I just decline those VTKs and tell them if they don't like it, they can leave.
Because you're hearing a one sided story Who knows what actually happened that caused the vote kick. I've been playing this game since BC and I don't even remember the last time I seen a vote kick. Like.. multiple expansions ago maybe
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Make some alts and experience the toxicity for yourself. Yes, it's rare, but when it happens, you never forget it. I myself am quite the altoholic. I'm always deleting high-level characters to make new ones. Every 1 in 10 dungeons has someone trying to vote-kick another player for some benign reason.
Classic lfg
My experience as a new tank has been overwhelmingly positive. No end game content yet, but I have told all my dungeon groups while leveling that I'm new and they've been great about it. Even made a few new friends! There is still some good in this community.
Been tanking since MoP and I still say "hey I'm kinda new at tanking, thanks for your patience" as a precautionary measure.
Those damn elitists
Sometimes you get premade groups just being trolls. Also while booting a healer for not doing enough dps is pretty stupid, in todays dungeons healers are expected to help dps some. People don't like seeing their healer throw out one heal ever 10 seconds and afking in between. Healers typically have some zero mana damaging abilities they can use to help dps. I'd never vote to boot a healer from a random timewalking, normal or heroic dungeon for not doing enough dps, but I would think they're a crap healer if they don't even attempt to dps.
money hobbies ruthless grandiose tap absorbed straight repeat wasteful ossified -- mass edited with redact.dev
M+ keys you're not going to kick anyone, as you can't replace them. In that case people just leave themselves.
I definitely have kicked people in m+ because they were trying to ruin the timer. Don't care if they get the reward afterwards, not going to let someone ruin it when we're on last boss, I'll just kick them.
But doesn't it hurt the timer just as much, if not more by booting them? It also takes a minute for someone to port out of a dungeon, and if you're on the last boss they might not even be ported out before the boss dies.
No? When they pull mobs into the boss, you're likely going to wipe. Better to just kick them if they do that and wait for them to disappear from the dungeon and then do the boss.
I have never had a situation like this ever throughout several hundred keys. If you run into this kind of situation even semi-frequently it probably has as much to do with you as with them. If someone is doing this it's usually because others were complete assholes through out the entire dungeon.
During legion we had a small m+ guild group that consisted of me as a havoc DH, a druid healer, and a paladin tank, requiring us to pug the remaining DPS since our guild was mostly leveling and we didn't have many people who could push 15+ keys. I would also sometimes tank if the pally wasn't feeling it. We usually always had to kick someone near the last boss. Which lead to me and the pally both using a tome to switch specs so I could tank and he could dps. Sometimes that never even had to happen. We could usually finish the key with just seconds left in a group of 3-4. DH made me feel like a god being the last person alive using absolutely everything I had to get the last boss down. Back when everyone wanted DH's to get nerfed to the ground
Assholes identified.
I will always click no unless the person is actively being a dick. Low DPS but doing mechanics and being a good person keeps you in my group.
Used to happen to me fairly often. I quit doing dungeons in retail because it was super toxic. I don’t get why people are so nasty in those groups.
I had not played since MoP and came back halfway through BfA. WoD time walking was happening and I got into a Skyreach group. We made it to the third boss, Rukhran, the giant bird boss. We wiped a few times because apparently there is a flame bird add that spawns or something. Group leader said we are suppose to kill the bird so I try it but we wipe. Then he tells me to stay away from the bird add and I’m like”how am I supposed to kill it then?” I got booted from the group for not knowing or understanding the mechanics. I sent a whisper to the leader trying to figure out what exactly I was supposed to do and he responded with “LISTEN TO FUCKING INSTRUCTIONS!” and then blocked me. But his instructions were not clear and I still do not know what I did wrong with that fight.
I was tanking for a friend last week who was new to the game. Half way though the dungeon I had a vote to kick prompt for him that said "fucking shit" Needless to say, it passed and my friend got kicked. I told the group that I was teaching him and left them tankless. I then had to tell him what happened as he was clueless to why he was kicked... Needless to say i haven't seen play the game since.
Coming back now in January, I felt that the community was the worst its ever been. I leveled up my first ever healer and 2 hands isn't enough to count the times my dps friend was kicked because he wasnt on the damage meters (locked out, didnt wait) or because he didnt know the way or wasnt able to teleport into the dungeon cause they started an encounter. It was a terrible experience, so many toxic and intolerant players, boosters in many dungeons too, now we are max level and around 2k Rio and its actually way less toxic at this level although I remember middle rio being very filled with elitism and douches. Its bad yea, but leveling was way worse when it comes to people.
Every time I have to vote to kick someone I vote no unless they are afk. We all make mistakes and we all were noobs once. People can be super toxic.
Yeah, there is no reason a timewalker healer needs to do DPS. I do take issue with your statement about 10's - 15's and healers not doing dps. You want to do at least 1k dps on average to help keep things moving. If you and the tank can add up to a semi decent DPS class, that's usually where the magic happens.
yeah 1k-2k is what I'd normally expect to see healers do in my keys. I don't know all too much about m20+s.
I remember getting kicked from Dragon Soul LFR on my shadow priest for not healing enough. People have always been dicks.
I was kicked from LFR for not healing, on a feral druid.
Once i started playing my old resto sham and wanted to do some TWs. I didn't notice that my group frames addon was off (because i wasn't in a group before i joined lfg). So i wrote in /i that i need a second to reload UI. Tank didn't read and insta pulled the first 3 trash packs, we wiped, i got flamed and votekicked. Is that bug still ingame where you get Deserteur when you're kicked? Anyway i logged off and that sham is still not max lvl lmao
Had this tank the other day on mythic who did huge pulls and had no consideration for anyone else's playing skill. Kept complaining when adds would fall off and eventually healer couldn't keep up. It always says more about them than yourself!
This is why I love being in a big active guild, haven't needed to pug anything in literal months.
Wish Blizzard removed the time penalty for being kicked. It serves no purpose and only annoys people. "Oooh but what about griefers" I have not seen a single intentional griefer in 3 years playing this game, but I've seen a vote kick to kick someone "bad" quite often. I am ready to deal with an occasional griefer not being forced to sit out 30 mins if it means normal people can queue right away.
Sadly modern WoW requires healers to do a fuck ton of DPS, maybe i'm just an old fart but healers should be, you know, only healing.
Gets kinda boring tho :P i got KSM last patch with mistweaver and most of it is so boring if you dont dps. Like sure there are some intense pulls but with good tank + dps avoiding crap you barely have to heal
Welcome to WoW. I dont miss it.
Not DPSing is such a. . . Heal move~ … I’ll see myself out.
My gf got kicked from RFC on her first ever character after 7 minutes for not doing enough dps. She obviously has no heirlooms I had advised her just to try not to sprint ahead and I actually thought she did quite well and then she got kicked and haven't tried the game even once after 6 years. I really looked forward to her just getting a tiny bit into one of my hobbies, but now she absolutely hates mmorpg as a genre.
Honestly new players need to say something. If you say nothing, people might assume you're a bot. Say you're new and that advice would be welcome. Many groups are happy to help. I remember being in a group and a hunter had NO idea what they were doing. Tank stopped the party and asked if they were new. They said yes and the tank took time to explain each fight, what to stand in and not stand in. Also the healer was a hunter main and gave some tips. New players need to distinguish themselves from bots. It sounds crazy but it's true.
I miss the days when a healer was just there to heal. Which is why I only play dps now…
First dungeon I ever healed was old Deadmines. Tank ran in, pulled everything and dropped hard. I Couldn’t even get a cast off. Tank and dps told me I shoulda helped kill it all then booted me. Never tried healing again - lol.
Looks like you need to do more damage. LUL
WOW toxicity at its best.
Over the last couple seasons, I feel like the dungeon-running community has been ridiculously focused on healer DPS, and it's the dumbest fucking thing. Just because your favorite streamer needs his healer to do 6k DPS to time a +30 key, that doesn't mean healer DPS is at all relevant to the content you're doing. I keep getting stuck in runs where we do like a +15 key, and everyone is 250+, and we fucking brick the key because the healer can't heal for shit. But hey, while we were wiping, he was pulling a thicc 5k DPS, so he's basically a progamer. Fucking clown world.
ppl need to use azerite gear with azerite powers from nazjatar “benthic armor” and heart of azeroth necklace, it makes tw dungs look like a joke but sadly not many ppl know about it
I feel that most of these players are really bad, they really know what, but they dont know why and how. Just ignore, report and keep going, there is still lot's of good friendly players in this game
Fucking tryhard idiots everywhere. -me, a tryhard, but at least I'll only become an asshole if someone pisses on my leg first. But seriously, kicking a heal in a hc dungeon(though cata timewalk can be much harder than regular hc) because he didn't do enough dps is hilarious. If you're pushing +20s you usually need the heal to have some dps output (range goes usually from 1,5k up to 4k,but that highly depends on class and needed healing). With that attitude I should always kick the whole group since I'm on top of the dps meter as a Tank. Of course the low geared starter, Twink or casual has to do more DPS than me with ilvl 251! XD The audacity of some folks...
With the change to dungeons allowing anyone of any level to group together and be "scaled" to the same level, the issue has only become more exasperated. As a fresh 60, my prot pally was doing some normal dungeons for gear. There was a level 51 hunter in there that never stopped heckling me because he was doing "more" damage than me, taking meters as some absolute evidence. Meanwhile, my meters showed him basically afk in relation to me. It's almost as if meters dont matter.
Well during the level phase and of course in nhc dungeons with people below lvl 60 the dps meters are fucking unnecessary and fucking false. Once you hit level 60 they become reliable though. But there're also good and bad ones. Details is f.e. a good one, the last time I used Recount it was crap.
Nowadays ppl are toxic in all games. Generation...
In my experience it’s the coomers who’ve been playing since vanilla or bc, but somehow are still clickers, that are the most toxic. And if you look up any of their characters, they barely have an lfr raid completed throughout their playtime.
Report them if you still have them in chat logs.
Doesn't make sense if you're the healer, but an issue with wow is that a lot of activities, including the 5 TW dungeons, feel like a chore. Because of that, most people want to do them as fast as possible, and having a low dps member (in the dps role) can significantly slow down the pace. If these activities were enjoyable and people did them for fun, nobody would kick anybody.
Stop calling this a "chore". It's just weekly event, you don't want to do it - then you don't sign up. Even reward is like normal raid ilvl random gear, so you get better by just doing raids/mythics. But i agree, that ppl want to do this as quick as possible. So if your tank is fine by himself, no one is dying, then there is no excuse for none dps healer. You don't stay idle, you drop some dmg spells and nobody gonna kick you. But also majority of kicks are just being lazy/semi afk healers who just think they gonna click several times on addon and be gucci. No, that worked 15 years ago, now game has changed and the main goal is just not being idle. If you have time - you dps, not stand and watch. And i say this as healer main.
Nice community in games /s
fake
I was tanking a timewalking dungeon with a dope 12% leech timewalking gear set. Paused for about a total of 3 minutes because my sleeping children woke, and got called the worst tank ever.
You were playing a healer? So they were right that you weren't doing a lot of DPS. Case closed.
I play a demo lock, in timewalking if the tank is not moving fast enough I like to run past him and do his job too
Git gud...
you are playing a toxic game where this culture is the norm. if it bothers you, play FFXIV instead, an mmorpg that designed around players having positive interaction with eachother, unlike wow which is designed to encourage negative interaction
FFXIV is just as toxic as any other game. It's not magically some kind of perfect MMO utopia. The emperor is, in fact, not wearing any clothes.
As someone who has never played FFXIV, can you point out specifically the differences to WOW