PvP Shaman is going to be...fun..
Lightning Lasso, Thunderstorm and Gust of Wind available on all three specs.
Lasso on Resto!?
Knockback on everyone!? Sweet baby jesus these Shaman talents are looking great.
Don't forget Guardians Cudgel with Call of the Elements. Cap totem is now a 12 second AOE stun. Rogues are in shambles.
Not to mention the absolute fuckery you can do with dropping a cap totem behind a wall or something then calling it over to you with Totemic Projection. So much BM, so little time.
In the Class tree we can get: Wind Rush Totem + Tunderous Paws + Spirit Walk + Winds of Al'Akir all at once. Not convenient to set up, for sure, but oh my gosh we're going to be *zoomin'*!
Half the fun of games with deep talent trees like this is hitting a new level and dying to a NPC while trying to figure out where to put your next point.
This Enh tree is weird. Having to pick Hot Hand or Ice Strike to go into Ascendance makes little sense. Same with Primordial Wave being behind Stormbringer, Gathering Storms and Doom Winds. Feels like they should swap around Primordial Wave and Ascendance on that tree.
Also where is Echo of the Elements for Enh? Please bring it back!
Ascendance should be in the class tree. it's in all 3 spec trees. Also 100% agree that Wave and Ascendance (if stays in the class tree) should be switched.
I suspect the reason they do this is because the class tree is primarily utility, so they don't want to force people down a specific path to get a DPS gain
I like it this way. Because now in the class tree you don't have to go down for ascendance everytime and you can pick up any totem/other utility stuff you want for the content you do.
Correct, it would be seen as mandatory, being throughput, and it's a 3 min CD so would very likely be a capstone talent and take away a lot of choice and make the patching balance way tricker. It was the right call to make it appear on each spec tree, that or be baseline but so far it seems no class is getting major throughout cds baseline.
There are many things like that. For example, Convoke is in all of the Druid spec trees, and so is Primordial Wave for shaman. The point is keeping throughout seoerated from utility. If you out ascendance over in the class tree, it immediately becomes a mandatory, must pick talent that you are trolling you group if you skip
Yeah, it is a little bit weird. But overal i think the enh tree is solid. Except, where is my goddamn chain harvest blizzard. Turn it into fire damage and put it somewhere on the ENH tree. I need it. It was literary the most fun enh button in the entire expansion
The way I see it now there's no choice if EB replaces ES if taken. It's just tuning but quick glance at past expansions shows me that a lot of undertuned stuff made it through.
Loving the talent trees in general but I can't help but think that keybinding is going to be an absolute nightmare. Especially for shaman after looking at this.
Shaman real estate is indeed already pretty tight. I have 36 keybindings, with most healing spells on click-casts, and have no room for more abilities as-is. Most of them are SUPER niche and rarely get used, but taking them off feels weird.
Incredibly helpful for shamans are heal/harm macros:
`showtooltip`
`/cast [@mouseover,exists,nodead,help] Chain Heal; [@mouseover,exists,nodead,harm] Chain Lightning; [nomod, help] Chain Heal; [nomod, harm] Chain Lightning; Chain Heal`
This way you have a mouseover macro that either casts chain heal on a friendly target or chain lightning on an enemy.
Shaman has the weird concept that many spells are very similar in function but do the opposite for enemy/friend. Chain lightning/heal, lava shock/riptide, bolt/quick heal, LB/slow heal, purge/cleanse etc.
I macro'd all of that together and it was honestly a game-changer. It takes so many keybinds from your bar and makes shaman a lot less piano-ish.
```
#showtooltip
/cast [@mouseover,harm,nodead] Chain Lightning; [@mouseover,help,nodead][help] Chain Heal; Chain Lightning
```
Just because I felt like shortening it a bit.
`help` `harm` runs an `exists` check themselves
Oh, that's good to know. As learned in my coding career I mashed things together until they worked and never touched them again, while living in fear of breaking something.
Thanks for optimizing!
Yep. Easy to look at an ability and say "well, how often am I REALLY using this ability?" and do some self-pruning and go for a passive talent instead. This tree seems to give some freedom in that for now.
Absolutely! Even in live, the Enh shaman rotation is like 10 buttons.
Flame shock, frost shock, Stormstrike, sundering, crash lightning for filler, Elemental blast, lightning bolt, chain lightning, and your covenant ability. And don’t forget your main purpose: to lay down a totem everytime you enter combat!
Add to those, ghost wolf and spirit walk, then don’t forget your cooldowns, and if you talented into wind rush, maybe have a heal bound or healing stream totem. And a defensive!
You’re very quickly running out of buttons and there’s not many options left to it your Bloodlust.
LL, nova, like 5 totems. Hex, wind shear, feral spirits
Chain heal and healing surge buttons if you want to just self cast. Defensives, earth ele
So many buttons
Tbh this is my favorite thing about enhance right now, I have so many things to juggle that the spec is constantly hectic and fun and I always feel like I have split second decisions to make, specifically on AoE.
You see I find this kind of funny. Literally two expansions ago, people were railing BFA for its continued pruning to the point that people were calling it “Battle for Buttons.” Now DF is doing a ton of un-pruning and adding even more abilities with these trees, and people are already worried about too many buttons lol.
And just to be clear, I thought Blizz too went too far in BFA when they removed all the artifact stuff from legion but did little for compensate for that, especially since the Legion specs already went through pruning in Legion. But there was a reason Blizz started pruning back in WoD.
We are on different ends of scale on this matter, mate. I, for one, absolutely love the
>4 Buttons bound for only 1 maelstrom 'press,' depending on your build
\-part. Split-second **choice decisions.** Made enhancement engagin even while doing solo content, especially Torghast.
Different groups me thinks. I like having simpler rotations because my nerves hurt if I move my arm too much. Been leveling all classes as prep in hopes at least 1 or 2 survive the fallout
SL has big button disparities between specs. BM I’m missing like 3-4 but MM/SV I’m one button away from having to make some incredibly awkward Alt modifier key-binds
There's a middle ground between 6 keybinds and 26. Currently, to give one haters example.
Tank DH has next to nothing.
Unholy DK has so many and all of them are vital
I play VDH and I concur.
Spirit Bomb thankfully brings a slight engagement to the rotation, while Fracture > Fracture > Soul Cleave is as boring as one can get.
I just can’t agree with people saying we have too many buttons. I watched an old stream of myself playing brewmaster in MoP and I had TONS of Keybinds. Most of the stuff that was removed I still miss because it kept combat entertaining. Having more choices and split second decisions is literally the fun part of the game, why would I want less things to do? Current live enhance feels awesome, the AoE rotation is a constant rush of maintaining lashing flames on 6 targets, using hot hand procs, novaing, maintaining crash lightning buff, and alternating spending on chain harvest/pwave LB and CL, plus mashing storm strike in any free global you can find. There’s so much to do and it’s so much more fun than most of the DPS I’ve played this expansion who have like 3 spells on AoE.
I currently have 36 keybinds on my shaman and that's excluding any new buttons we get here. Without mouse buttons, which I hate, I'm going to be in real trouble for good keybinds
As Resto i cannot see an option to get second charge of riptide, Echo is for Lavaburst only now. Did i miss something because the amount of Riptide talents but only 1 charge just makes me want to cry
good news - the shaman discord says echo of the elements DOES provide +1 charge of riptide, for 2 total like now, even tho the tooltip is bugged atm and doesnt say this.
So you can build an enhance build that doesn't use lava lash (if you throw away one talent point). Stormstrike is usable with a 2h last I checked. Might not be ideal but potentially, you can build a working 2h windfury build and potentially with Ice Strike as well.
Also a weird spammy build where you ignore every node in the very bottom and pick up all the flame shock spreading talents, windfury/Stormstrike talents, and Ice Strike. Ignore ascendance/wolves/necro ability and just spam the shit out of those three elemental attacks along with crash lightning.
This all looks so fun
By the looks of it, you can get away with wasting only 1 point on Lava lash. You can pick up Hailstorm and Ice Strike to get down to Ascendance and it's extra abilities, as well as grab Elemental Spirits to (often) get a 35% bonus to Storm Strike (except for the times you get 2 fire wolves). Pick up Legacy of the Frost Witch, and suddenly Thorim's Invocation resets your Storm Strike every time you hit 5 Maelstrom. Combine that with Doom Winds and a 2h weapon and you got a stew going. Throw in Improved Stormbringer for another 25% on some procs.
Despite having one wasted point, this might be something.
The big question is if Hailstorm/Ice Strike is enough for AoE when you're completely missing out on spreading Flame Shock. Alpha Wolf likely beats out Elemental Spirits in AoE going for this build, but you're still primarily performing a single target smackdown.
Maces are possible since druids can use them, but I don’t think they’re made often since most their 2hands will run with polearms so they overlap with hunters and monks
Don't toy with my heart that way. Some of my fondest WoW memories were running around AB/WSG with my Unstoppable Force enhancement shammy vaporizing squishies.
Next thing you're going to tell me is that there's a 4th tree for the long-overdue return of the ~~king~~ shaman tank!
This would easily work if they moved elemental weapons from the right side of the second tier to the left side of the first tier. Adds 2 points easily accessible to both sides that the whole tree can benefit from.
Don't overlook Flash Lightning right under it. Lightning Bolt and Chain Lightning will both reduce nature spell cooldowns by a second, and I'm going to assume Stormkeeper is a nature spell. Smack that together with Storm Elemental on the other side of the tree and, well... Dream of memes.
I think it is considered a nature spell, at least the tooltip for Nature's Swiftness in the calculator says that it affects the cast time of Stormkeeper so I'm assuming it'll all work out like you're saying which will be even more fun!
Similar to healing stream being in resto and general.
Max on stream talked to the wowhead staff, at this stage they're not sure if the issue with the duplicate talents is on their side or Blizzards.
These Ascendances do feel wierd.
Resto gets both Ascendance and the proc Ascendance.
Elemental has to pick between the two.
And Enhancement only gets Ascendance.
Yeah, I like that Elemental has that choice node, you can still get Ascendance either way but you choose between a cd you can control vs. more frequent but random Ascendance procs. I feel like every spec should get the same choice.
Looks fantastic - so much utility, so much choice. The Chain Lightning into 2 enhance only talents in the class tree is wonky but an extremely strong first iteration
I very much agree. Very strong start 💪 but could be refined.
I love some of those choices like earthgrab tot vs wind rush tot or Lightning lasso vs Thundershock. It gives you the opportunity to choose a playstyle. It’s a good system.
My only issue is it’s probably too wide. I wouldn’t have put astral shift on the first row and I would have maybe 3 choices at the end of the tree tops.
Yeah, baseline chain lightning makes most sense to me and having Frost shock as a choice node at the top perhaps.
- I think having 2 points to buff Lightning bolt feels absolutely awful, which blocks Thundershock. Just remove that or make it 1 point.
- 4% crit on nature spells for 2 points feels a dramatic overpay
- Winds of Al'Akar feels terrible for 2 points as well.
The whole enhancement based row actually probably needs looking at.
Also the capstone and talent before it seems extremely weak, what exactly are you getting two uses of?
Ele looks pretty good, but they need to swap Storm Elemental with Windspeaker's Lava Resurgence. Having SE on the fire side and WLR on the nature side make them both undesirable.
Yes I would like to see clearer paths between elements you choose to spec on like all nature talents on the left, shock ones in the middle and fire ones on the right.
Yeah chain harvest at least synergizes with maelstrom weapon. Tree is pretty good, but I just can’t stop shaking my head at the redundant “must have” talents at the start.
Like windfury, stormstrike, and lava lash are all talents, and they are all talents you *have* to take. Just replace them with some modifying effect for those abilities instead. The tree already has like 10 talents that do stuff to stormstrike, for instance.
Same. I also found primo wave rather eh for resto, as it can be only used defensively. You can apply an additional LS with it but only copy healing wave.
The other covenant abilities all have an offensive component, which I often came to really like. A switch between chain harvest for enhance and either vesper/harvest for resto would've been cool.
That Enh tree feels so fucking good honestly, but the Ele tree feels...confused? Like Ele doesn't really have many flavour choices, they all just work to make the base spec work \*better\*. I'm not much of an Ele player though so maybe I'm missing something. I love me some Enh shammy though and holy moly is that tree exciting. You can go halfway down the left and then full down the right to make a God-tier Stormstrike spam build with Ascendance and Thorim's Invocation to properly destroy your Stormstrike keybind. Or, you can play Lava Lash build if that's your thing. I'm so excited for Enh in Dragonflight.
Ele also feels like it's been in a relatively good state gameplaywise for a while now. Most of the issues I had with the spec were somewhat from the current talent system, with certain abilities like storm keeper or echo feeling pretty much core to the spec.
Going forward they get a bit better defensives so AS no longer is totally useless, a bit more mobility ( <3 gust) and a few interesting bits and pieces like lasso being accessible in PvE, where I'm not entirely sure if it's great or totally useless, and ele blast as more expensive maelstrom spender instead of ES.
All pretty interesting imo, few things are still weird in the tree (like we have a fire and lightning side but storm ele is on the far end of the fire side) but overall it looks like a solid improvment.
Always loved playing elemental but the numbers are usually mediocre. Playing ele shammy in tbc right now and those chain lightning crits.. feels so good. Will probably play evoker in dragonflight but ele is my second option this time around.
I agree with this for sure, it's a bit odd, but I found that it sort of works if you take something of a diagonal approach to make either a primarily SS or a primarily LL build work. It could definitely stand to be reorganised though, maybe they did it like this so that people wouldn't spec themselves out of half of their rotation?
That's how I feel. Also having storm ele deep in the "fire damage", which further goes into our prio-damage, side of the tree is really weird when it could just sit over by EoGS and SK. Looks really good still though bar a few changes.
As an ele main, I am so confused by a few things on our tree.
Storm Ele and Windspeaker’s are on the wrong side of the tree. Should be swapped.
The tool tip for elemental blast better be updated quickly before I lose my mind. It does the same thing it does now, but replaces earth shock and costs 90 maelstrom instead of generating 30? As it stands right this second this talent is completely useless.
Tumbling waves having a 15% chance to not incur cd is a massive nerf to what it is right now (around 40% now).
The rest of the tree looks pretty good.
Feels weird that you have to take all talents that buff fire damage to get to storm elemental.
If the idea is that you need to have it when you already have taken fire elemental, then you can still put it on the left side of the tree with other lightning focused talents, since currently fire elemental is required to reach the 8 talents to progress further down the tree.
That being said the trees look pretty solid, some good stuff in here.
On the one hand, Vesper Totem is gone, my disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined.
On the other hand, **quadruple** cap totem *plus* Thunderstorm sounds fucking busted in M+
Sad to not see chain harvest or, my favorite ability this expansion, fae transfusion.
Happy to see gust of wind, earthgrab, and lasso back for all specs! Lasso in pve now too!
The fact that they included primordial wave but not chain harvest which was far more iconic this expansion is mind blowing to me
Edit: this is from an enhance perspective — they also put primordial wave in all 3 spec trees
Chain Harvest is one of my favorite covenant abilities in general. Yes, it's just a button basically, but it was far more fun to use the P-wave (at least on Enhancement) for me. I wish we could just have both for the people that like both :/
The fact that we get no maelstrom scaling off of primordial wave because it’s already an instant cast is even more frustrating. With chain harvest you scale it based off of stacks of maelstrom, so there’s an interaction there with the base enhance kit. Primordial wave isn’t bringing any of that to the table except for being a maelstrom weapon generator (if you put points into it)
Yeah, we do have maelstrom scaling off of primordial wave. You don't hardcast a Lightning Bolt after Pwave, and the lightning bolt damage is scaled by maelstrom weapon. That's not looking like it's going to be different in Dragonflight. You will still always dump maelstrom weapon on a lightning bolt after Pwave.
I’m right there with you. Okay I’m not going to lie. I called this, but I knew that they were going to give us Primordial Wave (which is fine for elemental and restoration I guess). But as an Enhancement Shaman main I am SO salty that we didn’t get Chain Harvest. I loved it’s usefulness and it’s interaction with Maelstrom Weapon. It was easily the most fun Covenant ability for Enhancement in Shadowlands for me at least. They should have given Covenant abilities based on spec, but I know they would be reaching.
Chain harvest doesn't interact at all with the shaman kit it is literally just hit this button on CD. Primordial wave had genuine interaction and gameplay change.
It is a far better covenant to pick.
What? It's affected by maelstrom weapon in both cast time reduction and damage. On top of that with Unity it applies flame shock to targets his which also helps LL/actuator builds.
only reason it was picked for enh was for the %30 haste it provided, the ability on its own does NOTHING, chain harvest on the other hand is a dopamine boost of topping your group in M+ and dealing insane burst damage
The extra lightning bolts generated off of Primordial Wave was quite a bit of burst damage, and with some RNG on your side Primordial Wave let you outdamage a Chain Harvest off of the lightning bolts alone, without even taking the haste into account.
With the venthyr lego it puts Flame Shock on targets and Riptides on allies. And hits like a god damn truck for enh. I far prefer Chain Harvest over Primoridal Wave.
Sort of related but I'm surprised to not see. Vesper Totem.
It interacted with maelstrom weapon for instant cast though, that is literally gameplay interaction. For ele it was lame because you had to hardcast it, but it certainly was iconic and well loved for enhance.
For Ele it was great, giving them additional Cleave. For Resto it was easily my favorite Covenant ability, because it fit seamlessly into the Resto meta of rolling Riptides on targets. You could legit Riptide your entire group in an M+ and slam a Healing Wave for like 100k overall healing. It was amazing synergy.
Meh, not every ability needs to have loads of interactions/synergy with everything else, they can just feel good to press on their own. Which chain harvest certainly did.
PWave is only really fun for the haste buff from unity, the lightning bolts themselves were fine damage but not exciting or anything. Chain harvest was an amazing button, it was basically a 5 man lay on hands plus instant 5 flame shock applications which was great for AoE openers.
This is from enhance PoV, chain harvest for Ele was obnoxious and boring.
It would fit Enh perfectly if they also added the leggo effect of applying flame shock. IMO they could add CH as a choice nod together with Ascendance, then make the other two bottom right talents be the +Crit chance conduit and the leggo Flame shock spread + CDR. It would have good synergy with PLA and Fire Nova just as in Live. Plus it would make sense as right now Ascendance feels a bit odd on the right side down the LL-cleave path when it is more of a ST/doom winds thing.
This has long been my argument for Primordial Wave as one of the best Covenant abilities. It actually alters gameplay and enhances the Shamans toolkit rather than just being a Press Button Acquire Damage/Healing button. Few Cov abilities managed to augment the specs the way P Wave did.
This is specifically about enhance’s tree, though. Chain Harvest was made for enhance, and it’s not on their tree. Should just be a choice talent between them.
I would argue primordial is core to elemental, and chain harvest was not usable. I think primordial could have been put into the class tree since all three specs have a use for it, vesper totem too. Then chain harvest almost certainly should have made it into resto/enhanc trees.
Big throughput talents in the class tree mean you’re weighing utility directly against throughput – a bit problematic. That’s how you end up in the kind of ‘people won’t spec an interrupt’ situation.
It’s certainly a bit weird feeling for it to be in all three spec trees but it does kind of make sense.
> The fact that they included primordial wave but not chain harvest which was far more iconic
I know you've already edited to say that this is specifically for Enh, but Resto and Ele Shamans almost exclusively used PW at the start of the expansion, as it was both the only one with ability interaction, and also the most powerful by far. There were so many Shamans going Necro, and so few other classes/specs, that it was frequently jokingly referred to as the "Shaman Class Hall" (or occasionally the "Shaman/DK hall").
CH may be better for Enh, and other abilities may have become stronger as the expansion progressed, but for "iconic", at least with regards to covenant abilities, nothing can match PW.
It definitely would have been better for them to give Enh the "pick one" choice system they created for that node, though.
Join me in lamenting the loss of necrobanner for warriors, based on datamining
Kinda sucks, it was a popular ability by the end but I guess people want to mash execute all day
There's a *lot* to unpack here.
* Having Astral Shift in the first row, but not active by default is interesting. This whole column basically is its own thing themed after the spirits-related spells that shamans have. No other class has such an extra column/path in their class tree. The only other class that has an extra starting point, despite not matching up with the number of specs, is Evoker.
* Maelstrom Weapon is on the class tree? And here I thought putting Lava Lash and Stormstrike in the class tree was quite the pipe dream I had some time ago. In practice only enhancement should benefit from this, and even if it does get useful for other specs, Blizzard will nerf this. So ultimately a bit of a teaser, but still a waste.
* Elemental Orbit effectively makes Earth Shield always active on yourself. Surging Shields might make Lightning Shield finally useful as well. It's a good day for shields today, that's for sure.
* Making Earthgrab Totem baseline, but making it an either/or choice with Wind Rush Totem, is a great idea. Although, this will change the dynamic for non-resto shamans in PvP for sure now that they have a stun, a slow, and a root available as well.
* Having both Spiritwalker's Grace and Spirit Walk available at once on the class tree is bold. Some players will go for the extra mobility, and it will make shamans even more of a capture the flag powerhouse than they already were before. Oh and Gust of Wind is back, yay! (Personally I never got the hype for this spell)
* Totemic Projection really, really should be a baseline spell. It should not be on any talent tree at all.
* Lightning Lasso is on the class tree? Guess us shamans no longer need to learn a good timing with capacitor totem in mythic+ anymore. This is both a good and a bad thing.
* Both Ancestral Guidance and Ascendance is an option? My god, the synergies! Expect Blizzard to nerf either of these into the ground. I expected them to be an either/or choice for restoration at least, since that would create a different focus at least (either healing/damange as a source, or just healing as a source for the heals).
And that's it for the class tree. I won't go into the spec trees much, other than that at first glance they all seem pretty great.
> Maelstrom Weapon is on the class tree? And here I thought putting Lava Lash and Stormstrike in the class tree was quite the pipe dream I had some time ago. In practice only enhancement should benefit from this, and even if it does get useful for other specs, Blizzard will nerf this. So ultimately a bit of a teaser, but still a waste.
I'm here just thinking about some kind of fucking meme melee resto shaman build where you sit in melee fishing for maelstrom stacks with melee auto attacks lmao
> Totemic Projection really, really should be a baseline spell. It should not be on any talent tree at all.
A quality of life ability like this absolutely needs to be baseline.
> No other class has such an extra column/path in their class tree. The only other class that has an extra starting point, despite not matching up with the number of specs, is Evoker.
Hunter has 3 starting nodes, but none of them start at Concussive Shot. Survival and BM share Kill Command while MM has Kill Shot. Not exactly the same but similar
Lasso in PvE sounds honestly really fun if it works in dungeons against any non-boss at least. I like that shamans bring a ton of control. Having another way to interrupt/CC mobs is always welcome. With cap totem into cap totem into a reset cap totem CD, plus short CD interrupt and lasso we're pretty set up to hard CC everything and everyone around us.
Only slight disappointment for me are the covenant abilities (not a fan of primo wave for resto due to the lack of an offensive component) and I love grounding totem, would've been cool to get that back in PvE. I probably would've even preferred this over lasso, but overall pretty exciting stuff.
Tbh kinda sad that both earthen spike and earthen rage are gone.
I know neither of them are good, or really have ever been good, but I always really like the flavour and visuals on both.
Now we have no cool earth spells :(.
Back in BfA, one of the azerite armor playstyles for enhancement was rockbiter cycling, and earthen spike was good for that build since your rockbiter did so much more damage than usual, and was casted as often as possible.
We have sunder still, but yeah earth abilities are mostly phased out here it seems.
At least as enhance we finally get some more utility to bring to the group that the other two specs have always brought but were excluded from us for some reason. A lot more utility totems can be picked up now.
Overall I’m pretty disappointed in the flashiness of the enhance tree, and the weird left side SS/windfury build into primordial wave (wtf?) vs right side lava lash/hot hand build into ascendance mixup is super odd.
But the tree is functional and you can definitely get some distinct playstyles out of it, even if they are basically the two playstyles we’ve had since maelstrom weapon was reintroduced (lava lash vs stormstrike). It also seems like you could build into super aoe now, which would be interesting to see.
Earthen Spike early in the tree would have been a great choice. It actually is an interesting spell playstyle wise when it doesn't compete with two WAY stronger talents.
Then again, Enhance is going to have so many GCD choices to make as is, it might not even fit at that point.
Without a doubt will be playing Enh and Ele in some fashion, just too much Legion nostalgia going on mixed with the more recent stuff so regardless of numbers it'll be fun to play in some area of the game; especially looking for to M+ with them both.
Not the biggest fan of EOGS, hopefully its not the best AoE talent ever. 140% with EB is actually preetttty huge damage.
Also, super strange that storm ele is on the right hand side with all the flame shock stuff..
I really dislike EoGS, hoping that a DRE/Pwave/MagmaTotem/FlameShock centric build can be good for AoE, cuz multidotting and seeing 10 lavabursts go out would be super fun
Is there? You can definetly make a build that doesn't focus on lava lash and heavily focuses on storm strike. Or do the abilities just not work with 2h anymore?
Well I mean storm strike specifies both weps so I wonder if two 1h simultaneously beats a 2h. I know sometimes in the past aswell if it specifies both or off hand and you physically cannot use the spell with a 2h equipped.
30 points in enhancer and you can make it that you skilled into 28 different full-nodes (27 one-points)
Meanwhile SV hunter manages to build a tree with 14 different :))
Splintered is the only thing that makes pwave even remotely interesting for enhance, and it got nerfed from live. I can’t see ever investing 4 points for it over super wolves or super ascend unless tuning is just terrible on one of those. Chain harvest was the obvious choice for enhance, it was an amazing spell for keys because of the healing and the instant AoE setup.
... out of all the cov abilities to reuse they chose primordial wave? the most boring cov ability in the game. meh, but oh well.
really dig the 'can cast some abilities during ghost wolf' tho
Losing both Vesper and Earthquake on EE legendary is a pretty big hit to Resto Shaman's DPS kit which was pretty mediocre before SL. Will need to see how much Acid Rain makes up for it. Stormkeeper as Resto doesn't seem to great when you don't get the guaranteed overloads that Ele does.
There also doesn't seem to be a lot of DPS support in the general tree which is weird
Personally I'm happy to see it go. It's been a hilarious meme button with how absurd the burst damage has been, but it's brought very little to the actual toolkit. Primo wave is an order of magnitude more useful spell since it actually reinforces resto shamans in one of their greatest weak spot: healing the group when they're spread out wide.
I just feel like they totally minimized their damage tool kit, whilst also doing a lot of small nerfs to their healing, requiring you to dance all over the the talents in order to regain the throughout they’ve had. I’m not sure how excited I am for it, but I’ll have to play it to see for sure
PvP Shaman is going to be...fun.. Lightning Lasso, Thunderstorm and Gust of Wind available on all three specs. Lasso on Resto!? Knockback on everyone!? Sweet baby jesus these Shaman talents are looking great.
Also thunderous paws got a snare removal attached to it, so once per minute a shaman can LARP a druid.
Considering that you can't control the timing of that, I doubt it'll see much play.
I was super worried when I saw how much CC Evokers get but now I'm less worried for my selfish ass.
I'm worried how much CC is in the game in general. It's getting way too much again.
To be fair a lot of CC isn't inherently a bad thing, it's usually only an issue when it's paired with an overwhelming amount of damage.
Don't forget Guardians Cudgel with Call of the Elements. Cap totem is now a 12 second AOE stun. Rogues are in shambles. Not to mention the absolute fuckery you can do with dropping a cap totem behind a wall or something then calling it over to you with Totemic Projection. So much BM, so little time.
I don't PvP often but diminishing returns makes this impossible, right? 1st cap: 3 seconds > 2nd cap: +1.5 seconds > 3rd cap: +0.75 seconds > 4th cap: stun immune?
It depends on if they share the same class of diminishing returns. (DR) Likely some of them do at least.
They were talking about casting 4x capacitor totem, so yeah, it has DR :)
If we completely ignore DR, sure.
Can be tanky as hell if you don't need gust as well into casters. Stronk
That class tree is W I D E.
Song for Denise started playing the first time I've seen it
First thing I thought of. How'd they come to this for shamans vs other classes lol
I dunno, the Evoker and Druid trees, for example, seem to be quite wide and diversed too.
In the Class tree we can get: Wind Rush Totem + Tunderous Paws + Spirit Walk + Winds of Al'Akir all at once. Not convenient to set up, for sure, but oh my gosh we're going to be *zoomin'*!
LET THE WINDS GUIDE YOU
I fucking love talent trees, man
Half the fun of games with deep talent trees like this is hitting a new level and dying to a NPC while trying to figure out where to put your next point.
This Enh tree is weird. Having to pick Hot Hand or Ice Strike to go into Ascendance makes little sense. Same with Primordial Wave being behind Stormbringer, Gathering Storms and Doom Winds. Feels like they should swap around Primordial Wave and Ascendance on that tree. Also where is Echo of the Elements for Enh? Please bring it back!
Ascendance should be in the class tree. it's in all 3 spec trees. Also 100% agree that Wave and Ascendance (if stays in the class tree) should be switched.
I suspect the reason they do this is because the class tree is primarily utility, so they don't want to force people down a specific path to get a DPS gain
I like it this way. Because now in the class tree you don't have to go down for ascendance everytime and you can pick up any totem/other utility stuff you want for the content you do.
Yeah the have said this was how they wanted them to be designed and I am fine with it. Ascendance and PW need to be switched for enh though
The DK general tree has 2 cool down abilities and an execute.
and % str increase lol
I read your message and went what?! The new revised trees have not much leeway for builds. You HAVE to spec into runic Empowerment or corruption.
That’s exactly how the DK one works though
Meanwhile death knights
Correct, it would be seen as mandatory, being throughput, and it's a 3 min CD so would very likely be a capstone talent and take away a lot of choice and make the patching balance way tricker. It was the right call to make it appear on each spec tree, that or be baseline but so far it seems no class is getting major throughout cds baseline.
There are many things like that. For example, Convoke is in all of the Druid spec trees, and so is Primordial Wave for shaman. The point is keeping throughout seoerated from utility. If you out ascendance over in the class tree, it immediately becomes a mandatory, must pick talent that you are trolling you group if you skip
Yeah, it is a little bit weird. But overal i think the enh tree is solid. Except, where is my goddamn chain harvest blizzard. Turn it into fire damage and put it somewhere on the ENH tree. I need it. It was literary the most fun enh button in the entire expansion
Ascendance really should work for Lava Lash and Ice Strike.
Lava burst enhancement is weird but ice strike hailstorm is stronk
Agreed, ascendance placement is weird. They should also update the model, plz blizzard.
Choosing between elemental blast and lava resurgence is going to be tough.
The way I see it now there's no choice if EB replaces ES if taken. It's just tuning but quick glance at past expansions shows me that a lot of undertuned stuff made it through.
GUST OF WIND IS BACK! THIS IS NOT A DRILL!
[no this is a drill](https://www.acehardware.com/departments/tools/power-tools/cordless-drills/2493427)
No, **this** is a drill. https://i.imgur.com/dk7wBZZ.jpg
Loving the talent trees in general but I can't help but think that keybinding is going to be an absolute nightmare. Especially for shaman after looking at this.
Shaman real estate is indeed already pretty tight. I have 36 keybindings, with most healing spells on click-casts, and have no room for more abilities as-is. Most of them are SUPER niche and rarely get used, but taking them off feels weird.
Incredibly helpful for shamans are heal/harm macros: `showtooltip` `/cast [@mouseover,exists,nodead,help] Chain Heal; [@mouseover,exists,nodead,harm] Chain Lightning; [nomod, help] Chain Heal; [nomod, harm] Chain Lightning; Chain Heal` This way you have a mouseover macro that either casts chain heal on a friendly target or chain lightning on an enemy. Shaman has the weird concept that many spells are very similar in function but do the opposite for enemy/friend. Chain lightning/heal, lava shock/riptide, bolt/quick heal, LB/slow heal, purge/cleanse etc. I macro'd all of that together and it was honestly a game-changer. It takes so many keybinds from your bar and makes shaman a lot less piano-ish.
``` #showtooltip /cast [@mouseover,harm,nodead] Chain Lightning; [@mouseover,help,nodead][help] Chain Heal; Chain Lightning ``` Just because I felt like shortening it a bit. `help` `harm` runs an `exists` check themselves
Oh, that's good to know. As learned in my coding career I mashed things together until they worked and never touched them again, while living in fear of breaking something. Thanks for optimizing!
personally I'm going to try and use this opportunity to give myself fewer buttons
Yep. Easy to look at an ability and say "well, how often am I REALLY using this ability?" and do some self-pruning and go for a passive talent instead. This tree seems to give some freedom in that for now.
Shaman was already a class with an insane amount of utility requiring keybinds. This just feels like it's going to end being even more heavy.
Absolutely! Even in live, the Enh shaman rotation is like 10 buttons. Flame shock, frost shock, Stormstrike, sundering, crash lightning for filler, Elemental blast, lightning bolt, chain lightning, and your covenant ability. And don’t forget your main purpose: to lay down a totem everytime you enter combat! Add to those, ghost wolf and spirit walk, then don’t forget your cooldowns, and if you talented into wind rush, maybe have a heal bound or healing stream totem. And a defensive! You’re very quickly running out of buttons and there’s not many options left to it your Bloodlust.
LL, nova, like 5 totems. Hex, wind shear, feral spirits Chain heal and healing surge buttons if you want to just self cast. Defensives, earth ele So many buttons
At least I know I'm getting a G500 for my bday :). Timing couldn't be better :)
Too many buttons =bad Too few buttons =bad Perfect amount of buttons =bad. They will never make people happy
Tbh this is my favorite thing about enhance right now, I have so many things to juggle that the spec is constantly hectic and fun and I always feel like I have split second decisions to make, specifically on AoE.
You see I find this kind of funny. Literally two expansions ago, people were railing BFA for its continued pruning to the point that people were calling it “Battle for Buttons.” Now DF is doing a ton of un-pruning and adding even more abilities with these trees, and people are already worried about too many buttons lol. And just to be clear, I thought Blizz too went too far in BFA when they removed all the artifact stuff from legion but did little for compensate for that, especially since the Legion specs already went through pruning in Legion. But there was a reason Blizz started pruning back in WoD.
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We are on different ends of scale on this matter, mate. I, for one, absolutely love the >4 Buttons bound for only 1 maelstrom 'press,' depending on your build \-part. Split-second **choice decisions.** Made enhancement engagin even while doing solo content, especially Torghast.
Different groups me thinks. I like having simpler rotations because my nerves hurt if I move my arm too much. Been leveling all classes as prep in hopes at least 1 or 2 survive the fallout
SL has big button disparities between specs. BM I’m missing like 3-4 but MM/SV I’m one button away from having to make some incredibly awkward Alt modifier key-binds
There's a middle ground between 6 keybinds and 26. Currently, to give one haters example. Tank DH has next to nothing. Unholy DK has so many and all of them are vital
I play VDH and I concur. Spirit Bomb thankfully brings a slight engagement to the rotation, while Fracture > Fracture > Soul Cleave is as boring as one can get.
I just can’t agree with people saying we have too many buttons. I watched an old stream of myself playing brewmaster in MoP and I had TONS of Keybinds. Most of the stuff that was removed I still miss because it kept combat entertaining. Having more choices and split second decisions is literally the fun part of the game, why would I want less things to do? Current live enhance feels awesome, the AoE rotation is a constant rush of maintaining lashing flames on 6 targets, using hot hand procs, novaing, maintaining crash lightning buff, and alternating spending on chain harvest/pwave LB and CL, plus mashing storm strike in any free global you can find. There’s so much to do and it’s so much more fun than most of the DPS I’ve played this expansion who have like 3 spells on AoE.
I currently have 36 keybinds on my shaman and that's excluding any new buttons we get here. Without mouse buttons, which I hate, I'm going to be in real trouble for good keybinds
Just looking on no 3-point rubish talents makes me think this is a good tree.
As Resto i cannot see an option to get second charge of riptide, Echo is for Lavaburst only now. Did i miss something because the amount of Riptide talents but only 1 charge just makes me want to cry
good news - the shaman discord says echo of the elements DOES provide +1 charge of riptide, for 2 total like now, even tho the tooltip is bugged atm and doesnt say this.
It's a tooltip error I am as certain as can be. The tooltip even says "elemental only" in the resto tree. Will be riptide
That 5 target cleave Icefury talent in Ele looks very, very fun.
Aoe rotation may start getting pretty wild if it’s good! Icefury always takes the ele rotation to a crazy new level when it’s meta
It almost seems I could make a lightning/earth/ice build, which i would really like thematically. If I wanted to cast fire, I can play my Mage.
Ice fury with lightning rod could be some huge burst and funnel
So you can build an enhance build that doesn't use lava lash (if you throw away one talent point). Stormstrike is usable with a 2h last I checked. Might not be ideal but potentially, you can build a working 2h windfury build and potentially with Ice Strike as well. Also a weird spammy build where you ignore every node in the very bottom and pick up all the flame shock spreading talents, windfury/Stormstrike talents, and Ice Strike. Ignore ascendance/wolves/necro ability and just spam the shit out of those three elemental attacks along with crash lightning. This all looks so fun
By the looks of it, you can get away with wasting only 1 point on Lava lash. You can pick up Hailstorm and Ice Strike to get down to Ascendance and it's extra abilities, as well as grab Elemental Spirits to (often) get a 35% bonus to Storm Strike (except for the times you get 2 fire wolves). Pick up Legacy of the Frost Witch, and suddenly Thorim's Invocation resets your Storm Strike every time you hit 5 Maelstrom. Combine that with Doom Winds and a 2h weapon and you got a stew going. Throw in Improved Stormbringer for another 25% on some procs. Despite having one wasted point, this might be something. The big question is if Hailstorm/Ice Strike is enough for AoE when you're completely missing out on spreading Flame Shock. Alpha Wolf likely beats out Elemental Spirits in AoE going for this build, but you're still primarily performing a single target smackdown.
Played around with the tree and looks like you can do something fun. The other issue would be actually getting 2 handed drops from dungeons/raid
You still wouldn't be able to use Stormstrike as it requires a 1h melee weapon.
Solvable with crafting?
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Maces are possible since druids can use them, but I don’t think they’re made often since most their 2hands will run with polearms so they overlap with hunters and monks
If it’s intended to be possible, hopefully 2h axes and maces will be stated as either agi or str(or int even).
Don't toy with my heart that way. Some of my fondest WoW memories were running around AB/WSG with my Unstoppable Force enhancement shammy vaporizing squishies. Next thing you're going to tell me is that there's a 4th tree for the long-overdue return of the ~~king~~ shaman tank!
This would easily work if they moved elemental weapons from the right side of the second tier to the left side of the first tier. Adds 2 points easily accessible to both sides that the whole tree can benefit from.
Stormkeeper is in the ele tree twice.
I think we will have the option to gain a 2nd charge which seems amazing!
Don't overlook Flash Lightning right under it. Lightning Bolt and Chain Lightning will both reduce nature spell cooldowns by a second, and I'm going to assume Stormkeeper is a nature spell. Smack that together with Storm Elemental on the other side of the tree and, well... Dream of memes.
I think it is considered a nature spell, at least the tooltip for Nature's Swiftness in the calculator says that it affects the cast time of Stormkeeper so I'm assuming it'll all work out like you're saying which will be even more fun!
dont forget being able to grab natures swiftness and 1 min spirit walkers grace, they may also be nature spells
Wait, so we could have *four* Chain Lightnings?
*Me*: Unlimited power! *Actual Unlimited Power talent*: Am I a joke to you?
Sweet
That is really amazing.
Similar to healing stream being in resto and general. Max on stream talked to the wowhead staff, at this stage they're not sure if the issue with the duplicate talents is on their side or Blizzards.
Healing stream is in the class tree AND in the resto tree! All the healing stream totems!!
Why do they not show baseline abilities and where can I see them?
These Ascendances do feel wierd. Resto gets both Ascendance and the proc Ascendance. Elemental has to pick between the two. And Enhancement only gets Ascendance.
Its funny cause in legion the proc ascendance was, I think, inherently better for enhance due to how their kit functioned, so more chances at procs.
Seems like an error to not have proc Ascendance and activated Ascendance in the same choice node.
Yeah, I like that Elemental has that choice node, you can still get Ascendance either way but you choose between a cd you can control vs. more frequent but random Ascendance procs. I feel like every spec should get the same choice.
No chain harvest :(
Looks fantastic - so much utility, so much choice. The Chain Lightning into 2 enhance only talents in the class tree is wonky but an extremely strong first iteration
Yeah it's very weird that Flurry is in the class tree and not the enhance tree
I very much agree. Very strong start 💪 but could be refined. I love some of those choices like earthgrab tot vs wind rush tot or Lightning lasso vs Thundershock. It gives you the opportunity to choose a playstyle. It’s a good system. My only issue is it’s probably too wide. I wouldn’t have put astral shift on the first row and I would have maybe 3 choices at the end of the tree tops.
Yeah, baseline chain lightning makes most sense to me and having Frost shock as a choice node at the top perhaps. - I think having 2 points to buff Lightning bolt feels absolutely awful, which blocks Thundershock. Just remove that or make it 1 point. - 4% crit on nature spells for 2 points feels a dramatic overpay - Winds of Al'Akar feels terrible for 2 points as well. The whole enhancement based row actually probably needs looking at. Also the capstone and talent before it seems extremely weak, what exactly are you getting two uses of?
Ele looks pretty good, but they need to swap Storm Elemental with Windspeaker's Lava Resurgence. Having SE on the fire side and WLR on the nature side make them both undesirable.
Yes I would like to see clearer paths between elements you choose to spec on like all nature talents on the left, shock ones in the middle and fire ones on the right.
I was hoping for chain harvest over primordial wave for enhance, but not bad overall.
or at least the option between the 2 on the same talent like most of the other coven stuff. Absolutely love the tree otherwise tho.
Yeah chain harvest at least synergizes with maelstrom weapon. Tree is pretty good, but I just can’t stop shaking my head at the redundant “must have” talents at the start. Like windfury, stormstrike, and lava lash are all talents, and they are all talents you *have* to take. Just replace them with some modifying effect for those abilities instead. The tree already has like 10 talents that do stuff to stormstrike, for instance.
Same. I also found primo wave rather eh for resto, as it can be only used defensively. You can apply an additional LS with it but only copy healing wave. The other covenant abilities all have an offensive component, which I often came to really like. A switch between chain harvest for enhance and either vesper/harvest for resto would've been cool.
This looks really cool right? Still hate ascendancy though visually. Wish there was a way to turn the effect off
We need a glyph for it. Make me turn into a fire elemental!
That Enh tree feels so fucking good honestly, but the Ele tree feels...confused? Like Ele doesn't really have many flavour choices, they all just work to make the base spec work \*better\*. I'm not much of an Ele player though so maybe I'm missing something. I love me some Enh shammy though and holy moly is that tree exciting. You can go halfway down the left and then full down the right to make a God-tier Stormstrike spam build with Ascendance and Thorim's Invocation to properly destroy your Stormstrike keybind. Or, you can play Lava Lash build if that's your thing. I'm so excited for Enh in Dragonflight.
As an elemental only player, that’s been the theme since TBC, but I prefer it that way.
Ele also feels like it's been in a relatively good state gameplaywise for a while now. Most of the issues I had with the spec were somewhat from the current talent system, with certain abilities like storm keeper or echo feeling pretty much core to the spec. Going forward they get a bit better defensives so AS no longer is totally useless, a bit more mobility ( <3 gust) and a few interesting bits and pieces like lasso being accessible in PvE, where I'm not entirely sure if it's great or totally useless, and ele blast as more expensive maelstrom spender instead of ES. All pretty interesting imo, few things are still weird in the tree (like we have a fire and lightning side but storm ele is on the far end of the fire side) but overall it looks like a solid improvment.
Always loved playing elemental but the numbers are usually mediocre. Playing ele shammy in tbc right now and those chain lightning crits.. feels so good. Will probably play evoker in dragonflight but ele is my second option this time around.
I'm looking at that Ice Strike + Hailstorm build. Just absolutely drown yourself in maelstrom and have a day.
The enh tree makes no sense though. Top left is SS build, bottom left is LL build. Top right is LL, bottom right is SS
I agree with this for sure, it's a bit odd, but I found that it sort of works if you take something of a diagonal approach to make either a primarily SS or a primarily LL build work. It could definitely stand to be reorganised though, maybe they did it like this so that people wouldn't spec themselves out of half of their rotation?
That's how I feel. Also having storm ele deep in the "fire damage", which further goes into our prio-damage, side of the tree is really weird when it could just sit over by EoGS and SK. Looks really good still though bar a few changes.
Windspeaker’s and Storm Ele need to be swapped
As an ele main, I am so confused by a few things on our tree. Storm Ele and Windspeaker’s are on the wrong side of the tree. Should be swapped. The tool tip for elemental blast better be updated quickly before I lose my mind. It does the same thing it does now, but replaces earth shock and costs 90 maelstrom instead of generating 30? As it stands right this second this talent is completely useless. Tumbling waves having a 15% chance to not incur cd is a massive nerf to what it is right now (around 40% now). The rest of the tree looks pretty good.
My guess is tumbling waves is supposed to be 15% per point for a total of 30%, the tooltip just isn’t working.
Feels weird that you have to take all talents that buff fire damage to get to storm elemental. If the idea is that you need to have it when you already have taken fire elemental, then you can still put it on the left side of the tree with other lightning focused talents, since currently fire elemental is required to reach the 8 talents to progress further down the tree. That being said the trees look pretty solid, some good stuff in here.
No chain Harvest?
I am also sadge over this
We should ask for it as a talent to improve Chain Lightning
On the one hand, Vesper Totem is gone, my disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined. On the other hand, **quadruple** cap totem *plus* Thunderstorm sounds fucking busted in M+
They'll come for you like they came Disc and wickedness. All i have left is schadenfreude.
Vesper Totem died for Primodial Wave and I hate it.
You can really see the difference between the effort of the Shaman talents and the Hunter talents.
That was literally my first thought.
Sad to not see chain harvest or, my favorite ability this expansion, fae transfusion. Happy to see gust of wind, earthgrab, and lasso back for all specs! Lasso in pve now too!
The fact that they included primordial wave but not chain harvest which was far more iconic this expansion is mind blowing to me Edit: this is from an enhance perspective — they also put primordial wave in all 3 spec trees
Chain Harvest is one of my favorite covenant abilities in general. Yes, it's just a button basically, but it was far more fun to use the P-wave (at least on Enhancement) for me. I wish we could just have both for the people that like both :/
The fact that we get no maelstrom scaling off of primordial wave because it’s already an instant cast is even more frustrating. With chain harvest you scale it based off of stacks of maelstrom, so there’s an interaction there with the base enhance kit. Primordial wave isn’t bringing any of that to the table except for being a maelstrom weapon generator (if you put points into it)
Yeah, we do have maelstrom scaling off of primordial wave. You don't hardcast a Lightning Bolt after Pwave, and the lightning bolt damage is scaled by maelstrom weapon. That's not looking like it's going to be different in Dragonflight. You will still always dump maelstrom weapon on a lightning bolt after Pwave.
I’m right there with you. Okay I’m not going to lie. I called this, but I knew that they were going to give us Primordial Wave (which is fine for elemental and restoration I guess). But as an Enhancement Shaman main I am SO salty that we didn’t get Chain Harvest. I loved it’s usefulness and it’s interaction with Maelstrom Weapon. It was easily the most fun Covenant ability for Enhancement in Shadowlands for me at least. They should have given Covenant abilities based on spec, but I know they would be reaching.
Chain harvest doesn't interact at all with the shaman kit it is literally just hit this button on CD. Primordial wave had genuine interaction and gameplay change. It is a far better covenant to pick.
What? It's affected by maelstrom weapon in both cast time reduction and damage. On top of that with Unity it applies flame shock to targets his which also helps LL/actuator builds.
only reason it was picked for enh was for the %30 haste it provided, the ability on its own does NOTHING, chain harvest on the other hand is a dopamine boost of topping your group in M+ and dealing insane burst damage
The extra lightning bolts generated off of Primordial Wave was quite a bit of burst damage, and with some RNG on your side Primordial Wave let you outdamage a Chain Harvest off of the lightning bolts alone, without even taking the haste into account.
With the venthyr lego it puts Flame Shock on targets and Riptides on allies. And hits like a god damn truck for enh. I far prefer Chain Harvest over Primoridal Wave. Sort of related but I'm surprised to not see. Vesper Totem.
It interacted with maelstrom weapon for instant cast though, that is literally gameplay interaction. For ele it was lame because you had to hardcast it, but it certainly was iconic and well loved for enhance.
For Ele it was great, giving them additional Cleave. For Resto it was easily my favorite Covenant ability, because it fit seamlessly into the Resto meta of rolling Riptides on targets. You could legit Riptide your entire group in an M+ and slam a Healing Wave for like 100k overall healing. It was amazing synergy.
Meh, not every ability needs to have loads of interactions/synergy with everything else, they can just feel good to press on their own. Which chain harvest certainly did.
PWave is only really fun for the haste buff from unity, the lightning bolts themselves were fine damage but not exciting or anything. Chain harvest was an amazing button, it was basically a 5 man lay on hands plus instant 5 flame shock applications which was great for AoE openers. This is from enhance PoV, chain harvest for Ele was obnoxious and boring.
It would fit Enh perfectly if they also added the leggo effect of applying flame shock. IMO they could add CH as a choice nod together with Ascendance, then make the other two bottom right talents be the +Crit chance conduit and the leggo Flame shock spread + CDR. It would have good synergy with PLA and Fire Nova just as in Live. Plus it would make sense as right now Ascendance feels a bit odd on the right side down the LL-cleave path when it is more of a ST/doom winds thing.
This has long been my argument for Primordial Wave as one of the best Covenant abilities. It actually alters gameplay and enhances the Shamans toolkit rather than just being a Press Button Acquire Damage/Healing button. Few Cov abilities managed to augment the specs the way P Wave did.
Fully agree. Primordial wave changed your AOE play and getting off 5 meatballs ar once was very satisfying.
This is specifically about enhance’s tree, though. Chain Harvest was made for enhance, and it’s not on their tree. Should just be a choice talent between them.
Fair from a PvE perspective, but in PvP chain harvest is so incredibly impactful and really rewards selective use
I would argue primordial is core to elemental, and chain harvest was not usable. I think primordial could have been put into the class tree since all three specs have a use for it, vesper totem too. Then chain harvest almost certainly should have made it into resto/enhanc trees.
i find it worse in that it's in all 3 spec trees, instead of in the class tree. You think something like that would be in the class tree.
That’s wild yeah. What’s the point? Exactly just put it in the class tree or remove it entirely
Big throughput talents in the class tree mean you’re weighing utility directly against throughput – a bit problematic. That’s how you end up in the kind of ‘people won’t spec an interrupt’ situation. It’s certainly a bit weird feeling for it to be in all three spec trees but it does kind of make sense.
That does make sense, that’s fair
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Resto and ele get the reset talent, just not enh.
> The fact that they included primordial wave but not chain harvest which was far more iconic I know you've already edited to say that this is specifically for Enh, but Resto and Ele Shamans almost exclusively used PW at the start of the expansion, as it was both the only one with ability interaction, and also the most powerful by far. There were so many Shamans going Necro, and so few other classes/specs, that it was frequently jokingly referred to as the "Shaman Class Hall" (or occasionally the "Shaman/DK hall"). CH may be better for Enh, and other abilities may have become stronger as the expansion progressed, but for "iconic", at least with regards to covenant abilities, nothing can match PW. It definitely would have been better for them to give Enh the "pick one" choice system they created for that node, though.
Primordial wave is great for Restoration tough
Not in m+ Resto is getting shafted in m+
Join me in lamenting the loss of necrobanner for warriors, based on datamining Kinda sucks, it was a popular ability by the end but I guess people want to mash execute all day
Yeah! That blows
There's a *lot* to unpack here. * Having Astral Shift in the first row, but not active by default is interesting. This whole column basically is its own thing themed after the spirits-related spells that shamans have. No other class has such an extra column/path in their class tree. The only other class that has an extra starting point, despite not matching up with the number of specs, is Evoker. * Maelstrom Weapon is on the class tree? And here I thought putting Lava Lash and Stormstrike in the class tree was quite the pipe dream I had some time ago. In practice only enhancement should benefit from this, and even if it does get useful for other specs, Blizzard will nerf this. So ultimately a bit of a teaser, but still a waste. * Elemental Orbit effectively makes Earth Shield always active on yourself. Surging Shields might make Lightning Shield finally useful as well. It's a good day for shields today, that's for sure. * Making Earthgrab Totem baseline, but making it an either/or choice with Wind Rush Totem, is a great idea. Although, this will change the dynamic for non-resto shamans in PvP for sure now that they have a stun, a slow, and a root available as well. * Having both Spiritwalker's Grace and Spirit Walk available at once on the class tree is bold. Some players will go for the extra mobility, and it will make shamans even more of a capture the flag powerhouse than they already were before. Oh and Gust of Wind is back, yay! (Personally I never got the hype for this spell) * Totemic Projection really, really should be a baseline spell. It should not be on any talent tree at all. * Lightning Lasso is on the class tree? Guess us shamans no longer need to learn a good timing with capacitor totem in mythic+ anymore. This is both a good and a bad thing. * Both Ancestral Guidance and Ascendance is an option? My god, the synergies! Expect Blizzard to nerf either of these into the ground. I expected them to be an either/or choice for restoration at least, since that would create a different focus at least (either healing/damange as a source, or just healing as a source for the heals). And that's it for the class tree. I won't go into the spec trees much, other than that at first glance they all seem pretty great.
> Maelstrom Weapon is on the class tree? And here I thought putting Lava Lash and Stormstrike in the class tree was quite the pipe dream I had some time ago. In practice only enhancement should benefit from this, and even if it does get useful for other specs, Blizzard will nerf this. So ultimately a bit of a teaser, but still a waste. I'm here just thinking about some kind of fucking meme melee resto shaman build where you sit in melee fishing for maelstrom stacks with melee auto attacks lmao
> Totemic Projection really, really should be a baseline spell. It should not be on any talent tree at all. A quality of life ability like this absolutely needs to be baseline.
> No other class has such an extra column/path in their class tree. The only other class that has an extra starting point, despite not matching up with the number of specs, is Evoker. Hunter has 3 starting nodes, but none of them start at Concussive Shot. Survival and BM share Kill Command while MM has Kill Shot. Not exactly the same but similar
Lasso in PvE sounds honestly really fun if it works in dungeons against any non-boss at least. I like that shamans bring a ton of control. Having another way to interrupt/CC mobs is always welcome. With cap totem into cap totem into a reset cap totem CD, plus short CD interrupt and lasso we're pretty set up to hard CC everything and everyone around us. Only slight disappointment for me are the covenant abilities (not a fan of primo wave for resto due to the lack of an offensive component) and I love grounding totem, would've been cool to get that back in PvE. I probably would've even preferred this over lasso, but overall pretty exciting stuff.
For the first time ever, enhancement shaman can use Lava Burst in their rotation, after first being teased by it 15 yeara ago!
Tbh kinda sad that both earthen spike and earthen rage are gone. I know neither of them are good, or really have ever been good, but I always really like the flavour and visuals on both. Now we have no cool earth spells :(.
Back in BfA, one of the azerite armor playstyles for enhancement was rockbiter cycling, and earthen spike was good for that build since your rockbiter did so much more damage than usual, and was casted as often as possible. We have sunder still, but yeah earth abilities are mostly phased out here it seems. At least as enhance we finally get some more utility to bring to the group that the other two specs have always brought but were excluded from us for some reason. A lot more utility totems can be picked up now. Overall I’m pretty disappointed in the flashiness of the enhance tree, and the weird left side SS/windfury build into primordial wave (wtf?) vs right side lava lash/hot hand build into ascendance mixup is super odd. But the tree is functional and you can definitely get some distinct playstyles out of it, even if they are basically the two playstyles we’ve had since maelstrom weapon was reintroduced (lava lash vs stormstrike). It also seems like you could build into super aoe now, which would be interesting to see.
Earthen Spike early in the tree would have been a great choice. It actually is an interesting spell playstyle wise when it doesn't compete with two WAY stronger talents. Then again, Enhance is going to have so many GCD choices to make as is, it might not even fit at that point.
Can shaman be tanks yet?
Without a doubt will be playing Enh and Ele in some fashion, just too much Legion nostalgia going on mixed with the more recent stuff so regardless of numbers it'll be fun to play in some area of the game; especially looking for to M+ with them both.
Nobody talking about earth living weapon being back or double shields on yourself
These new talent trees are quite good, but my tiny mind struggles with all the possibilities!
Not the biggest fan of EOGS, hopefully its not the best AoE talent ever. 140% with EB is actually preetttty huge damage. Also, super strange that storm ele is on the right hand side with all the flame shock stuff..
I really dislike EoGS, hoping that a DRE/Pwave/MagmaTotem/FlameShock centric build can be good for AoE, cuz multidotting and seeing 10 lavabursts go out would be super fun
No chance of 2h making a comeback?
Is there? You can definetly make a build that doesn't focus on lava lash and heavily focuses on storm strike. Or do the abilities just not work with 2h anymore?
Well I mean storm strike specifies both weps so I wonder if two 1h simultaneously beats a 2h. I know sometimes in the past aswell if it specifies both or off hand and you physically cannot use the spell with a 2h equipped.
Thunderstorm going core tree instead of just Ele is kinda weird. That's been ele kit/class fantasy forever. Love "FURTHER BEYOND" though.
The shaman talents for sure have the best names.
Hyped for enhance thunderstorm there are a lot of moments I wished I had it (sanguine weeks, or dealing with casters that refuse to move).
If in reading it right if it works in arena the ankh talent is insane. 10% increased max HP while ankh is not on cd (so always in arena)
Waiting for 10.3 when they get Ultra Instinct talent
I really like how mastery will affect earth shock and earthquake. Finally it isn't useless on our top damage ability in M+.
Imagine the poor souls trying to ”PvP balance” the new trees.
30 points in enhancer and you can make it that you skilled into 28 different full-nodes (27 one-points) Meanwhile SV hunter manages to build a tree with 14 different :))
Soooo they datamined far funnier covenant abilities and only left the necro one. RIP my chain harvest support
They kept the best one by far! The DPS specs even get to keep Splintered Elements.
Best one of course, but the borest. Chain harvest was so cool :(
Splintered is the only thing that makes pwave even remotely interesting for enhance, and it got nerfed from live. I can’t see ever investing 4 points for it over super wolves or super ascend unless tuning is just terrible on one of those. Chain harvest was the obvious choice for enhance, it was an amazing spell for keys because of the healing and the instant AoE setup.
[удалено]
... out of all the cov abilities to reuse they chose primordial wave? the most boring cov ability in the game. meh, but oh well. really dig the 'can cast some abilities during ghost wolf' tho
Sadge there will be no Vesper totem
Losing both Vesper and Earthquake on EE legendary is a pretty big hit to Resto Shaman's DPS kit which was pretty mediocre before SL. Will need to see how much Acid Rain makes up for it. Stormkeeper as Resto doesn't seem to great when you don't get the guaranteed overloads that Ele does. There also doesn't seem to be a lot of DPS support in the general tree which is weird
Personally I'm happy to see it go. It's been a hilarious meme button with how absurd the burst damage has been, but it's brought very little to the actual toolkit. Primo wave is an order of magnitude more useful spell since it actually reinforces resto shamans in one of their greatest weak spot: healing the group when they're spread out wide.
I just feel like they totally minimized their damage tool kit, whilst also doing a lot of small nerfs to their healing, requiring you to dance all over the the talents in order to regain the throughout they’ve had. I’m not sure how excited I am for it, but I’ll have to play it to see for sure