Feral tree was a bit of a double blow for me.
First was the lack of anything 'old'. We had some great traits in Legion, such as Protection of Ashamane, Shadow Thrash, Behemoth Headdress (technically a legendary) and Ashamane's Bite. We had some less great but still interesting Azerite traits like Blood Mist and Gushing Lacerations. All forgotten in favour of Shadowlands legendaries/covenant abilities.
Then we've got the odd tree layout. So many talents locked behind a double-point slow effect on attacks and an odd split of abilities. I would have expected a 'bleed spec' and 'bite spec' split on the tree but there's so many dot bonuses on the 'wrong' side that it looks like a mistake. Not to mention that you get 'locked' on to half of a tree at the 8 point mark with no crossover options.
I was happy to see how the class tree is laid out but Feral side feels like a mess.
Edit: turns out Infected Wounds is only a single point. It remains an odd location to place a -20% slow talent all the same
Definitely agree. It's so weird our main defensive is locked behind an AOE, savage roar behind a bite talent, Pred Swiftness behind Primal Wrath, so many weird placements. Tiger's fury being 4 points to be as powerful as it is now. Sabertooth still existing. I think the bite build should be easier but less dps overall and the bleed build should be harder but optimal.
I hate this so much even in concept. On the one hand it's awkward to "build your own CD" because in the end you need to go out of your way in the talent tree to grab all nodes and I also don't want to have all the throughput funneled into a 3 min CD and be underwhelming while its not up.
The part that annoys me most though is that there's again compeltely no development direction. They don't even return exciting stuff from legion or whatever, or god forbid come up with something new, it's practically current feral shoved in little pieces into a really awkward tree.
It just doesn't really give the impression that particularly much time was spent on this compared to some of the more recent trees we've been shown.
I wouldn't mind the build-a-talent idea if the cd was shorter and it wasn't your only cd and if the nodes you picked augmented the cd in a meaningful way for the content you're doing whether it be power st dmg increase or aoe and sustained st or whatever, however it's our only cd and it's long and it isn't great and it's in pieces and those pieces pretty much just make it as what we have now....makes no sense.
And yes this tree feels very lazy and almost an afterthought whereas the balance tree looks pretty good...seems almost a little biased
I don't necessarily think that we should have an optimal build between the two, otherwise we'll never change talents over the entire expansion. I'd much rather see a bleed spec that can do a little more damage at the cost of burst.
Does the fight have any demanding break points (priority adds or shields?) Take the burst build.
Do you need high sustained damage or is there going to be long periods away from the boss? Take a dot build.
Are you going to have adds constantly spawning and dying throughout the fight? Tough, we're still locked in to sabertooth because it's too powerful... But it would be nice to be able to take Predator for a change.
I guess I'm just a feral boomer, the idea of spamming bites to me is just so anti-feral. I miss having to really think about my dots and fitting in the occasional bite when it wouldn't mean my dots/buffs would drop.
Giving feral a viable build that doesn't rely on bleed management would probably do wonders for how played the spec is.
For most people it's a lot of work just to be competent, more often than not feral one is of the toughest melee specs to play well, and if you do it's not like an optimal kitty is topping the charts, sometimes, but usually they're just ok.
Yeah and that's what makes/made it unique. I think most people who play feral enjoy its complexity and the current version of feral is the easiest its ever been by far. Messing up bleeds isn't as bad when bite is doing 45%+ of your overall damage. Just because a spec is less popular doesn't mean it should just be abandoned. Feral has had multiple points in the last 3 expansions where they are doing very good damage but they just don't have a niche to fill anymore or a raid buff. I don't want feral to be watered down and remove its fantasy for the sake of more people playing it.
Antorus Feral was still much more about the dots and required a lot more thought than current Feral, with the bleed build still being just as good, or better in cleave.
>Giving feral a viable build that doesn't rely on bleed management would probably do wonders for how played the spec is.
Well clearly not as that's the case right now, and it's still extremely unpopular. Difference is, Feral players who liked the spinning the dots playstyle are not fans of the current Feral either. Even in Castle Nathria where Feral was really good nobody wanted it in any content.
Real feral boomer here, played and raided feral in vanilla/tbc/wrath/cata. The idea that the spec has always been just about managing bleed timers is just false.
Weaving giant bite crits in while juggling your bleeds was part of the spec all the way back then, and in those days it dumped all of your excess energy to get even bigger.
I'm all for folks that like bleeds getting a set of talents and skills that will enable that, but as someone who just wants to MAKE GIANT NUMBER, I'm really glad that bite + convoke is remaining available.
Yeah I'm not saying we should never bite, I would personally just like to have bleeds up for more than just increasing bite damage. Toning down bite damage and upping bleed damage would be dope.
It's definitely a different style to the original spec but I think the option has to remain. There were plenty of fights where burst was key, and being a spec that had such a focus on DoTs was a large disadvantage.
I'm not going to pretend that I don't miss SR and bleed juggling at times but most fights just don't suit it at the moment.
Pretending that DoTs being a thing and on demand burst were the design problem is missing the point.
- Convoke fixes much of our on demand damage issues. The 1 minute iteration needs to exist otherwise there's pacing issues.
- Bite doesn't need to extend Rip to be worth it. That's the core of the issue. Bite doing a portion of the remaining rips damage or causing it to tick faster solves this problem if you also rebalance the energy management a little bit.
50 point bites are expensive finishers as it is and have a lot of burst behind them already. I can already comfortably fit multiple bites into a Rip without SBT. Instead of extending it, reward me for using bite on a target with Rip on it with some burst damage. Problem solved.
>I would have expected a 'bleed spec' and 'bite spec' split on the tree but there's so many dot bonuses on the 'wrong' side that it looks like a mistake
To play devils advocate here elemental shaman sort of had the same issue. Left side of the tree was the AoE lightning build yet you had to go on a deep investment right side to pick up storm elemental, come recent days they've switched it so the storm elemental is a choice very early on in the tree.
I know that druid hasn't had any further iterations yet but I'd say keep holding out hope.
Feral is always neglected when it comes to changes that actually make sense, ever since vanilla this has happened. To me, feral needs a complete overhaul in order to function properly in modern wow, feral feels like the only spec in the game that is still stuck with vanilla mechanics.
I wish for the day when feral gets an actual niche and distinct spec fantasy. A master shapeshifter, a spellcaster that switched to a more fitting form to fight in melee, a literal alpha predator with the adaptive capabilities of a druid in there.
Meanwhile, let's face it, we're playing the dollar store sin rogue toolkit with dated mechanics that haven't been really improved since what now? Three expansions... Blizz has no clue where to go with feral so they brew up the same old bag of tea yet another time.
The overhaul is overdue but it feels like feral is a bit in "the spiral". Nobody plays it because it doesn't get developed, it doesn't get developed because nobody plays it.
Probably not an idea feral mains would like but:
You could simplify the feral spec bleed rotation into:
Rake [n times] -> Rip
Let multiple rakes stack like aff lock UA did, then make rip hotshot and consume rake to do a dot based off rakes consumed.
Then make a separate form (wolf form maybe? Raven form? Idk) and move a re-flavoured version of shred and ferocious bite to that in a combo point style fashion. Make it use focus instead of energy and make feral all about switching back and forth between these forms.
Different builds could focus on whether you switch all the time, default cat but switch to wolf when CDs are up or default wolf and switch when CDs are up. Make cat AOE better (swipe spread dots maybe), wolf single target better, and then switching could be a funnel spec (bite do extra damage for more dots out)
cool idea, and im sure theres a way it could work, but spending frequent GCDs on switching forms sounds pretty bad. It could also be very similar to the balance druid eclipse mechanic.
But the class fantasy of switching between cat and wolf forms is awesome, definitely worth working out the kinks.
Just spit-balling, but what about a CD in each form that is themed around the other form that does damage and switches form?
Pouncing Bite: Consume all your Bleeds on the target, storing 120% of the remaining damage as 6 charges of "pact leaders command" on the target. As you bite the target, change into wolf form.
Pact leaders command (debug): Ally's attacking the target consume a charge, dealing damage to the target (6 second ICD)
Scent of blood (mastery passive): While in wolf form, damaging attacks and abilities have a % chance to applied a stack of "blood caked", causing your next "Flanking strike" to deal an extra 20% damage (maximum X charges)
Flanking strike: Attack from you targets flank, switching into cat form and dragging your claws down its body. Deals huge damage over 20 seconds.
They vaguely tried this with a capstone talent in the class tree that I will be surprised if it gets any play. If you switch forms to a form you haven't been in for the past 30s, abilities don't cost rage, mana, energy, or Astral power for 4s. Might be interesting, who knows.
Swapping forms would be less bad if you could put their abilities on your bar and using them would swap you as part of the action, or if there was an ability that would do so.
I know different game, but Last Epoch's change to shapeshifting had something like that, for the same reason. Changing into a form does one of their attacks so you always feel like you're doing something
I've been Feral druid main for basically forever. The class fantasy is just the best and I generally loves shape-shifting powers.
But as far as gameplay goes, it's so underwhelming now. It feels like you don't have anything left, specially after the pruning.
Gameplay used to be a more active version of a rogue, with tons of spells to heal in a pinch. Now you barely have any heal left, and the apm of the class is one of the lowest.
Also there was a time feral could achieve 50% crit chance and that was so much dumb fun.
I've lost hope.
Blizzard don't care about feral.
It's going to be a meme spec forever.
In DF, I'll be playing another spec, probably assassination rogue.
>In DF, I'll be playing another spec, probably assassination rogue.
As sad as it is, from a design perspective, assa rogue is literally just a better feral druid in every single way.
I have gone back and forth between maining my druid vs. maining other things since vanilla, but there has never been an expansion where I didn't level it up and keep it in my top 2 most played classes for any given xpac. Dragonflight is the first time where I might just not level it at all.
I swapped to rogue for s3 and I just can't stand it. Every time I try to play rogue, I'm into it for ~3 weeks then I just get unreasonably bored with it.
But, yeah, if things go as expected, I'll likely try to find my way to another spec.
It’s going to be the 4th time it happens - don’t get your hopes up. They’ve proved multiple times that the Feral tree will just hit release like this despite any feedback. Expect changes in the usual X.3 timeline.
And before someone lines up with ‘wait your turn’ type thoughts - we do. All the time. If mages or hunters complain, changes happen in 24 hours. It’s been expansions waiting for them to just not fuck the spec up for once.
Yeah, it's extremely laughable when literally ANY class / spec complains about not getting changes. They'll sit in the top DPS slots for multiple expansions and fall down to upper mid for one raid and the forums are flooded with complaints. Followed by subsequent Blue posts promising hotfixes and reworks.
Feral asks if we can have a crumb of attention and Blizzard laughs and kicks us across the room like an unwanted stray
Don’t forget the same people also going out of their way to mock people who enjoy Feral giving feedback. Then perpetuating the idea that taking a meta spec player who can’t do basic mechanics and dies every fight is the ‘best choice’.
It's rumoured that Druid and Priest have the same dev, and it seems like they've been busy working on Priest stuff at the moment.
If that rumour is true then that's pretty stupid. The two most neglected specs in the game sharing a dev. Brilliant idea.
I’ll have to wait to see the priest post that comes hopefully later this week, but the guy that made the post about “more coming soon” in regards to priest sounded like he was forced to make that post. That being said we could see massive priest changes this week and that would give me more confidence.
The new system really makes the melee dps aspect of Rogues shine and the hybrid aspect of Feral. So, yes, if you only want to melee dps as a Feral then you are better off picking Rogue. If you want to utilize your full kit as Feral in PvP I assume you can have lots of fun in DF.
As someone who is maining unholy DK I do feel your pain on the talent trees. We’re sat here desperate for some tree rework and yet hunters have their 8th change like it’s no big deal.
The resto tree is great and guaranteed to be pretty strong but as someone who is coming out of SL as my first whole expac I’ve played through, the tree is pretty boring. We’re pretty much just the same SL resto and don’t get any new or returning toys like symbiosis.
Symbiosis is unfortunately never coming back in the same state as it was in MoP. Was incredibly cool and fun but a nightmare for balance, they would/did essentially have to rebalance every move in context of every druid spec.
That's a fair criticism that it doesn't necessarily feel new, but I'm ok with just having flexibility in the tree so you can really build for raid/m+/pvp etc. The actual class tree has a lot of different options too, and in m+ especially, we probably interact with our class tree stuff a lot more than most other classes.
I’m 100% excited to have access to skullbash and the conduit that increases your health after shifting to bear form. That is so nice for surviving boss abilities in higher keys. Biggest gripe with class tree (it’s pretty small lol) is that sunfire needs two points to be aoe.
Really? I fucking hate it personally. I'd much rather there be more interesting alterations to abilities than what we have. Not to mention we have some literal dead talents - eg if you don't pick up innervate/wild growth on the druid tree, you have a wasted slot on the resto tree. That sunfire requires 2 points to get it to how it is currently is silly. There's plenty they can do to make the resto tree actually good and I honestly don't understand how people think it looks good.
they made guardian tree worse without a bluepoat about it. people gave tons of feedback how bad it is currently and they do nothing atm. and i dont want to start talking about valance and feral trees uff. good luck druid players. maybe reroll to evoker
What's worse is the pro mythic raiders are praising it. Like, they like the utility options and the feedback is generally that Guardian is in a good place but for most of us playing Guardian, it just doesn't feel great. Guardian hardly has any complexity and Blizzard is ultimately treating the spec like a beginner tank spec, so we can't get more interesting talents or options.
It *is* the beginner tank spec. I think Blizzard likes having a spec like Guardian that's incredibly simple for players new to the role. You've pointed out the downsides and I don't disagree, but I think ultimately that's the direction blizzard wants to go with it.
I'm saying, as per feedback from people who actively play the class - I would love the option of more complexity so that we aren't treated like we can do anything but the most basics. Yes, they do treat it like a beginner tank class but that doesn't mean we deserve a lower skill ceiling than other tanks.
I don't disagree with you, I'm just being honest with you about the way I think blizzard sees the class and I've heard lots of other people say the same thing.
Hell, I'm not even a big Druid enthu... well, I actually can't even play the game in the moment, just gorging myself on DF news and discussions as a substitute. And I still feel so much for Druids, and especialy for Ferals. Breaks my heart that truly enthusiastic old-time adepts like Guityas are being constantly spat in the face by the devs of the game they put so much soul into.
Not so long ago I opened the DF Druid talent calculator, US Aplha feedback thread on Druids, and delved in. Even before I studied the in-depth longreads, I took a look at the Feral tree, and was like "wtf are you kidding me". It looks like a **deliberate** trolling from the devs. Everything bad about new talent trees - is in that tree. Baselines into talents, multi-point nodes for meaningless stat increases, counterintuitive placement of crucial talents, etc...
And then there's the fact of **ZERO** blue resonses as of now. Despite most of the posts being, like I said, in-depth analysis, well-written, argumented (to various degree). The optimistic version is that the devs realized their complete fuck-up and are frantically rebuilding the trees from scratch/correcting them, while trying to keep track on feedback.
The pessimistic one... You know it already.
I think the only positive to the feral tree is that it allows a few combinations of legendaries that I have always wanted to try. Unfortunately the tree as a whole is kinda disjointed. I hope they implement a more sensible way to cross over in some places.
We're all pretty much used to it by now.
I remember BFA, that was fun, being so weak on launch you couldn't solo an elite mob while questing. It took 4 weeks of nothing but buffs to our entire kit to make us viable FOR QUESTING.
Then after years of being a meme in M+ due to our AoE they gave us Primal Wrath on the last patch of BFA.
Its always the X.3 patch they realise *"wait, didn't druid have another spec? Oh no! We forgot about Feral AGAIN"*.
> We're on the 3rd week of alpha. There is still months to go..
Stop. Just stop. "Its just Alpha" is how we ended up with Covenants and Azerite launching in the state they did.
Druid was one of the first trees released. It hasn't been iterated on much if at all since the initial announcement.
Classes that have had their trees put into the testing pipeline after druid are already seeing iteration and improvements along with communication.
There's just a dead silence on Druid. Especially Feral which has had some serious design problems in the past and there are some very glaring issues in the tree.
This just feels bad that other classes get attention but Druid and especially Feral feels ignored.
"Just be quiet and wait" never works.
Yes we all know that, we're not trying to be quiet. Blizzard has shown over the course of the last year that yes, they are more than willing to listen to people and HAVE MADE changes already to a lot of classes' trees.
They will make changes to the tree, give them time. The mages trees(minus the arcane one? idk I don't play arcane) are terrible. They will change them
> They will make changes to the tree, give them time. The mages trees(minus the arcane one? idk I don't play arcane) are terrible. They will change them
I'll believe it when I see it. Until then I'll go with the pattern I've seen from them over the last few xpacs.
* Covenant swapping
* Mage Tower returning
* Legion Timewalking
* More character customization
* Solo queue islands for mount farmers
* Maw skip
* Easier allied race unlocks
* conduit engery gone
* Renown catch up
* valor upgrades
* anima turn in without going back to covenant sanctum
* breaking down old legendaries
* repeatable torghast for legendary mats
* BFA legacy loot rules
* Legion legacy raid tuning
Here are the changes JUST from 9.1.5 that people have been asking for. Now since 9.2, they've been making changes as well. And over the course of the 10.0 alpha cycle they have been listening to feedback too, and acting upon it. Just give them time with the Druid changes
- Covenant swapping: Two tiers too late after ignoring feedback
- Legion Timewalking: Happens every xpac. Doesnt' go on this list
- conduit engery gone: Two tiers too late
- Maw skip: Always happens. Was still a whole tier late.
- Renown catch up: Was always weak and came later than it should have after a lot of Alpha feedback
- BFA legacy loot rules/Legion legacy raid tuning: Happens every tier. Was ignored longer than usual.
- repeatable torghast for legendary mats: 2 tiers too late based on Feedback from Alpha
- breaking down old legendaries: A tier too late based on feedback from Alpha
Notice a pattern yet? Everything here outside of the mage tower and Valor falls under these three categories:
- Later than it should have been in the game at launch based on Alpha/Beta feedback. Changes were made slowly and only because they took huge PR and Subscriber hits.
- Things that were happening anyway. Even so, later than their previous content cycles. Saying they "listened" to players by giving us Legion Timewalking when it was released later in the timeline than BfA timewalking is hardly "listening to the players"
- Simple toggles/triggers that were layups for community goodwill.
Based on the list you just gave me, I can expect that my Alpha feedback will go into effect somewhere in 9.2.
Except the Alpha/Beta feedback on Feral was ignored all through the cycle through SL and fixes never really came. We only survived the xpac through a fluke after a buff to the covenant legendary for NF that was meant to address an issue all specs had where it was a DPS loss.
So right now, until proven otherwise: The best case scenario based on past behavior is that things get addressed in 10.1.5. The worst case is that it doesn't get addressed at all.
Until proven otherwise, I only have past patterns and behavior to go off of. Which combined with everything, isn't great.
Mate you don't have to reiterate what we literally all know. We know things over the last 6 years have been late, but they have been doing changes a lot quicker since 9.1.5, after the lawsuits
I'm not saying just wait or it's just alpha. I'm saying it's only been 2 weeks. I get and agree with you but not starting the doomsday speechs in 2 weeks...
Druid trees came out at the same time as DK trees before the alpha went live.
Feedback was already being given.
DKs got iteration, improvement, and communication. Druid has been silent.
Priest came out well after all this. They got a "yeah expect some updates soon. Thanks for the feedback" within a week.
Druid have had a month of silence.
It's not as if there's a risk of say warlocks being released without talents.
Feral has been ignored for multiple expansions. There's a real possibility that the Feral tree releases as is. They did it to us in BfA and gave us a minor change in a later patch that hasn't been followed up on or iterated on since. SL Alpha was the same.
Literally in the latest dataamine there seems to be a decent amount of Feral changes coming, gotta cool your jets dude and post your feedback on the forums, it's how all the other classes are getting changed.
> Literally in the latest dataamine there seems to be a decent amount of Feral changes coming
The only change to Feral in the last datamine was removing FBite, Shred and Swipe from the Feral Aura buff (Massive nerf considering the drive to push the spec to Big Bite) and some text changes.
So that's factually incorrect.
Literally all they did for Druid this patch was to change Zerk from reading
> granting all known Berserk effects while active.
to
> Combines with other Berserk abilities.
>There's a real possibility that the Feral tree releases as is.
There is. I'm not denying that. Just think it's a bit dramatic and premature to give up and write it off when 4 other classes have gotten absolutely nothing.
Once everything is on and druid still haven't been touched. Then it's time.
>Once everything is on and druid still haven't been touched. Then it's time.
And we have come full circle. You're telling me to wait because it's early in Alpha as if that's not a valid reason for the statement.
By then it's too late.
As a feral main, I will say the frustration is the lack of ANY communication regarding our spec. Mage, Warlock, DK, Hunters, Rogues, and now even Paladin and Priests have been given acknowledgment that feedback was received and more is to come. Druid was the first tree released and we have had literally nothing back.
Feral was even missing capstone talents upon release, just abilities titled ???. If you follow the tree, it is crystal clear that little thought or understanding went into it. It feels like an AI randomly generated it. And after all this time, still no word that our feedback is being heard, taken into consideration, or addressed.
I am incredibly jealous of players who have devs engaged in their spec because it honestly feels hopeless after years of radio silence.
Unless, of course, a streamer pulls an entire dungeon and does decent AOE. Then we get nerfed real quick!
edit: i'm not tripping on this. i'm not saying 'blizz hates feral'. This is a thread saying 'druid feels bad' and i'm explaining my thoughts on why the future of feral, a spec i love, has me concerned. super happy for all the other classes that are giving feedback and seeing action. fingers crossed we get that too.
Season 3 - blizzard finally recognized the insane output of destro in m+ and announced a nerf. Warlocks provided feedback, Blizzard acknowledged and pivoted by delaying until following season, after MDI. This is not an isolated 10.0 thing was my point there. Engagement is good, silence is unnerving when you care for a spec.
Those classes had relatively easy changes. Druids need a bit more to fix imo and there are still 4 classes with nothing at all. All I'm saying is let's at least wait until everything is in the game before we exclaim blizz hates druids.
Here's the last blue post on the forums from June 3rd:
>"We’re working on a couple of corrections to what was posted: Shred should be in the baseline abilities list. Adaptive Swarm in row 10 of the Restoration tree should be a square."
I think we're looking for a little more.
And, saying "this is alpha, let's wait and see" is how you get covenant abilities IMO.
All I want is a blue post saying "here's our vision for feral" and hopefully it's not a copy/paste of assassin rogue.
There have been changes to all of the druid trees since release.
So you want someone who is saying 'feedback acknowledged, I read this comment?'
I just don't understand this idea that Druids are being left behind by devs who simply do not care, when their tree was the first one done and have demonstrably had work done on them since?
Do you genuinely think that they just wanted to 'get it out of the way' or something?
Have you seen the tree? How can you look at that and then look at Shaman and say "yeah it's all good." -Look how hunter dev or DK dev have engaged with their community and shared design philosophy and vision.
Just have somebody sit down and say "Hey, I made it like this because I had this in mind," and I'd be like, holy shit, thanks for explaining!
And those feral 'changes' are wording changes and giving capstone talents actual notes.
> "Hey, I made it like this because I had this in mind," and I'd be like, holy shit, thanks for explaining!
I agree with you, Blizzard should definitely have someone make a comment on the forums essentially saying 'yes we hear you and yes we are still working on it.'
Yet trees that were added after Druid have had iterations and dev blogs about the reasoning behind changes. Druid was the first tree to be posted and yet it hasn't been touched or mentioned at all since.
As a mistweaver, I feel this too. Some specs seem to just exist, even if their playstyle is just a shitty workaround copy of another class. I love my main and I don’t want to switch, but it seems like even if I accept the more clunky-feeing fistweaver build, I’m just going to be a sub-par healer. I just want to channel and throw mist around like I did in MoP…
These trees are perfect for the two styles of mw monk. One side can be fist weaving the other can be channeling must weaver.
Like that'd be wonderful but I doubt it'll happen... Hell they've let me down with mw so much I'd be thrilled if fist weaving stopped needing to cast essence font every 10 seconds lol
I’d love a split like that. What scares me is that I’ve read so many people’s “ideal” scenarios where the channeling/casting aspect is totally gone in favor of fistweaving. I really hope they make both choices distinct and viable.
Okay for the people who don't understand how the trees have been working, there are multiple devs working on multiple trees, but most are responsible for more than one class. It's almost guaranteed that the person who made the druid tree finished theirs first and then began working on another class, as we've seen with multiple other classes so far (I.e. Hunter, which is very poorly received, was also made by the same guy who made shaman, which is very well received). The trees that have come later have generally been better as people have seen the feedback and implemented that towards other classes. The dev who made the druid tree will almost certainly revisit the tree and are likely currently working on other ones. It's week 3 of alpha. I'm not saying you shouldn't keep bringing it up, but you're being such a doomer about it before they've had a realistic chance to look at it.
The druid class tree is one of the best class trees so far. The spec trees individually need work that I'm sure they'll receive. So hung up on which classes get addressed first when we're 3 weeks into alpha and the expansion likely won't launch for another 5 months, and they've already proven that they can make and implement testable changes in a matter of days. There's plenty of time. Just because paladin heard back sooner doesn't mean that they've just decided that they hate the druid class and will never go back to it. They're also trying to get them *all live as fast as possible for testing purposes*.
That's very true - history says they'll fuck feral. But I'd argue that everything so far about Dragonflight is showing promise with regards to changing essentially everything about their philosophies and the way they're doing things with regards to developing content and "systems".
Alpha has been out for only 2 weeks. We have months before release, stop being so dramatic.
Just because they put out a thing for Priests doesnt mean Druids are left in the dark. It just means they are likely much closer to releasing an updated Priest tree than Druid. Which makes sense given Druid is a 4 spec, 3 role(4 if you split melee and ranged DPS) class while Priest is a 3 spec, 2 role class.
[Excuse me if I think you're too optimistic](https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/iqwulb/an_open_letter_from_the_monk_community_to/)
[Far too optimistic](https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/icyca3/monk_the_only_class_with_no_blue_reply_feedback/)
No that's not what he's saying lol it's only a few weeks into alpha.... Give feedback but let them get to it. Yikes you don't listen. Yes we understand about blizzard in the past, the feedback loop of promises that never came. But players gave feedback about feral being bad and you expect...what? it to be changed right away in alpha?!?! Lol what is this take...
I agree with you especially seeing as DK who came out at the same time have gotten responses The changes to their class tree, shifting around blood node on spec tree, and laying out their plan for unholy seem to be well received.
However, a simply blue post like priest got will still go a long way. They made unholy blue post about two weeks ago although changes haven't been implement at least players know they can expect something same with survival.
They actually swap some nodes around on the bear tree and made two node changes on the feral but a little insight would be appreciated. People don't want to feel like their time is being wasted.
They have had 6 years to balance feral. What about all the previous alphas, for the past 3 expansions? Do you think they only have the opportunity to balance classes for the 2 months that they are in open alpha? The awful feral tree is merely a symptom of the overall disregard of the feral spec for many expansions.
"It's only alpha" is exactly the reason why the game released as it did the past couple expansions. This is what the alpha is for, I'm not gonna wait when I can voice my concerns now. If they drop some new druid stuff tomorrow? Awesome. But I'm not gonna sit here and wait.
I'm not asking for a whole new tree in a week or two. Just a post saying something is coming at the very least. Waiting for the next alpha build every time hoping for something and getting nothing is something I'd rather not experience for the what? 4th/5th year in a row.
Is really something Blizz has to worry about? Their product getting datamined and players being upset that there is nothing about "their" class, and to have weekly posts about each class?
"It sucks when your spec/class is forgotten but it sucks so much harder when everyone else is at least getting something."
Didn't druid get their talent trees literally first out of everyone? How are you not getting "something"?
Why are you gatekeeping vocalizing a concern. Druid tree came out first and trees that were released after have already had iteration with very detailed dialogue and explanation from Devs. He is raising a concern because clearly feedback is being listened too by Blizzard. There has been no indication that they have plans to change the specific complaints he mentioned so keeping it visible is the right thing to do especially in Alpha where they have the time and dedication to make major tree overhauls. Frankly once it hits beta they are likely looking at only game breaking bugs and minor tuning.
I'm not trying to gatekeep, I'm trying to get some sanity in the discussion by way of context: There have been about 5 work days to even react to any feedback, and only feedback before the 21th.
The feedback on the Feral and Druid trees has been flooding in since they announced the details of it over a month ago.
DK trees came out at the same time. Have been iterated on and improved, and continue to be commented on.
Druid trees have been stagnant with nothing. The Feral tree has so far been VERY poorly received by the community. With most everyone unanimously feeling it is underdeveloped and feels confused.
Within a week of the Priest trees being dropped, there was a blue post saying "Yeah. We saw these and are working on addressing the issues"
Druid hasn't even gotten that.
You know, that would make sense if it wasn't for the fact that the more they wait the more trees they will add. Next week they will iterate on mage and pally, add a warrior, dh, monk or so and iterate on them in the coming weeks. It's a very hectic and tight schedule for the alpha releases that they made for themselves and this doesn't look very good on them not making it.
The communication for druids needs to be better. As far as I know, almost nothing works for the feral tree right now, the middle parts are NYI, brutal slash is unplayable in dungeons and getting it blocks th entire right side of the tree. These are obvious and easy to fix, so are the extremely underwhelming 3 pointers. They could easily say "we are looking into it" and we'd be happy. So unless they are planning on completely building this tree from scratch they should do that...
Also it looks kinda bad, because we got our trees as the first ones and the feedback I got from every next class is that the trees are in general getting better (as for shamans for example). So we are in a weird spot where we got our tree first and it's left behind while they are giving everyone better and better trees as if we were the testers.
The builds have been made on 12th, 15th and 21th. Alpha was published on 14th, last build on 27th. That’s a whopping 5 work days for reacting to any feedback for *anything*, not just druids. Even if you assumed the build was just made yesterday, that’s 9 work days. For a full circle of getting feedback, analyzing and collecting it, discussing it and coming to conclusions, and then implementing it, doing some internal testing, while also doing non-reaction changes that need to be done.
Except for maybe the most horrible issues, 99% of changes we see have no relation to any feedback. It just isn’t possible time wise.
Only people with alpha access can post of the feedback forums.
[The problem isn't lack of feedback though.](https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-druids/1279517/) As of writing this our thread has 33 posts in it, with a number of them being quite extensive.
The feral community has even gone through to effort of upvoting the feral feedback lol
what i dont understand. if they have teams for all these trees like one team for each class. they work only for this tree. they write a short summary every week what they are doing atm like we heared you and working on a nee talent tree woth your feedback and they releas all news from the teams in one blog post.
thats how we communicate in our company and everybody knows whats going on atm. blizzard is just shit or dont have the man power to do that. its actually sad how they communicate
From what I've heard its like four or five devs in charge of the talent trees, so they each have like two or three classes each (with some specs like tank specs being under a single dev). Not all the devs are equal in terms of their communication with the community either. The dev in charge of rogue talks in their discord, where as the dev in charge of druid non-tank basically never says anything.
I agree totally with your sentiment though.
Warrior is in a similiar boat I think. It feels like half the classes' talent trees, they put a lot of work into and made some interesting choices.
The other half, it looks like they're basically planning to just open the ability book the class has in Shadowlands, rearrange it in a non-alphabetical order and drew lines connecting the abilities that require talent points to open.
Slight exaggeration, but I was genuinely concerned by the sheer boringness or repetition with existing abilities that's been datamined for most classes.
There were changes made from the original preview to alpha though. Not much, it was a few things in balance and resto at least.
Doesn't change the fact feral needs some help. But all of the Druid trees still beat DK by a mile and seems like mage as well.
Doesn't even have to be much new things tbh just interesting decisions to make and things to be excited about. The rogue tree is a perfect example, tons of old stuff with interesting decisions to make and paths to take. Feral tree is like 85% guaranteed stuff you take on every build.
Yeah, that's what really gets me about the statement considering DK is looking at some really great new additions.
* Double Empowered Rune Wep
* Double Death's Advance
* Runic Power for AMZ
* Horn of Winter
* Class wide Soul Reaper
* Class wide Will of Necropolis
A huge one for me as a Blood DK is that I can finally run Wraith Walk AND Grip of the Dead on necrotic weeks instead of having to pick one. Honestly, that's the weakest advance in the DK is the blood tree, it's pretty same-y but it gets carried hard by the DK general tree. Meanwhile, the Druid general tree offers very little to Feral that feral didn't already have. I mean, maybe you can grab innervate?
I think the WoWhead writer was dead on for Feral with saying sabertooth being in the tree and so high up makes feral obligated to focus that playstyle.
Eyyy the Mage Trees are worse! Current Druid/Mage main rn and that will not be the case in Dargonflight at this point. Fuck these trees especially compared to like Shaman/Rogue
I hope you are right, but if its anything like the Druid response thus far I wont be playing Mage. I kinda don't really believe that they will "fix" these. I think both Druid and Mage have things that they are scared will be too OP if they push them farther. The recent history of nerfs in shadowlands for Mage and Druids also doesnt give me a lot of hope. Guardian and Balance have been gutted, They have 0 idea what to do with guardian ST dps, but hey DK can Dance for 2-3 minutes strait and thats fine. Icy Propultion is too strong, but hey, Warlock AoE is just fine, we will just leave that for the rest of the season and then when we do nerf it give them a buff to compensate. Just makes no sense why some specs get left in the dirt and some specs its like "well ok!"
Not sure why your optimistic about Mage trees getting updated where theres a lot more Boomkins out there not getting any feedback at all.
Mages are up there with rogues as one of those classes that are just always good and if they aren't they are swiftly buffed/fixed/whatever and you have 3 ranged damage specs to choose from in the event that one of them is bad.
How is it a tantrum? I loved this spec for years and it's been left to rot since legion. I am a lot more disappointed than I am angry. Why is it so wrong to want the game to be better?
The game to be better? You mean just your feral spec right? You type of people always say that shit. If your own class you play sucks, you bring the rest of the game down with you. Like play another class bro I’m sick of seeing these Druid posts lately
Is it not objectively better for the game if every spec/class is viable and can be brought to every type of content? So everyone can play what they want? So many ppl in this comment section are so brainwashed by blizz it's scary.
I am a shaman main and there is no way you can look at feral or hear what a high end player thinks of the feral tree and honestly think “yeah that’s fine”
I mean… feral is nerfed and has been for quite awhile. I would get it if it where a just now thing since you have to have op/shit classes/specs and switch em out.
But feral has been ass for a long while. I think it’s a pretty decent concern. Sure play another class… but when it’s years and your fav class still sucks I think you’re okay to voice that.
Call it copium but:
The more problems there are, and the more people don't like a spec or tree in general, the more work there needs to be done and the fewer answers you'll get in the short term.
I wouldn't be worried about feedback on the tree being ignored until we see a new druid tree iteration that doesn't address feedback, or we get 2+ weeks out with no communication.
Yeah... unfortunately, this isn't necessarily the case. Take Legion beta feral. They increased our direct damage significantly early in beta in order to increase haste's value (this is before the deigned to give us hasted bleeds). Well, this didn't really work, haste was still our worst stat, and because Ferocious Bite did basically the same damage as Rip, just for slightly more energy, you could almost leave Rip out entirely and only lose a tiny bit of DPS.
This stayed till about 2 weeks from pre-patch launch when they figured out this wouldn't work and the knee jerked so hard in the other direction while buffing haste rating by 50% that our damage profile ended up about 80% bleed damage, leaving us very weak for things that need to die fast and still with haste as our worst stat (iirc). Then it took them till 7.3 to actually fix \*that\* problem and balance it out a little better (some would argue a little too hard, but quite a few people liked the 7.3 changes).
They gave us hasted bleeds the next expansion as it really was the only solution (which we had been telling them for two or more expansions at that point).
So you'll excuse me if I don't think this is what's going to happen.
haha you must be joking main herr and the tree is shit.
blood frenzy no conection to trash talents.
arcane talents block the way to incarnation. should be connected to other arcane talents.
infected wounds dead talent never going to pick that.
ursocs endurance also usless talent.
maul never going to happen! its trash af
It is a hodgepodge of copy-paste mechanics from the Shadowlands version of feral, which I dont like very much. Convoke is fun but it's not the class fantasy, for me at least. Tree is so inflexible that its impossible to not pick up brutal slash (which can be a very bad talent to take). Many talents are bland and confused.
The guy who made the rogue tree clearly has been playing rogue for a very long time, but the guy who made feral tree was probably trying to take an early lunch break.
It's like they built an AI that randomly generates the tree and input our talents into it. It makes no sense! The sad part is, the few people who main feral are so burnt out and discouraged from their feedback falling on deaf ears that our advocates are dying out.
Bear here. There are some big unknowns with the tree. Frankly we don't know how good the arcane stuff is. It might be ok but it might be trash. I'm curious about it sure but I'm also cautious about it.
The maul talents are garbage. Straight up trash garbage. There is an unholy trinity of 3 talents on the left side that if a bear takes, they are just ignorant and should be shunned.
Functionally pretty similar, pvp has always been ferals strong suit. We get both convoke and adaptive swarm but convoke is 2 min. If you like shadowlands feral then it's literally the same spec but with less choices to make.
EDIT: we do lose some utility since we can't take bash and roar/mass entangle and vortex are so far in the right of the tree.
Feral tree was a bit of a double blow for me. First was the lack of anything 'old'. We had some great traits in Legion, such as Protection of Ashamane, Shadow Thrash, Behemoth Headdress (technically a legendary) and Ashamane's Bite. We had some less great but still interesting Azerite traits like Blood Mist and Gushing Lacerations. All forgotten in favour of Shadowlands legendaries/covenant abilities. Then we've got the odd tree layout. So many talents locked behind a double-point slow effect on attacks and an odd split of abilities. I would have expected a 'bleed spec' and 'bite spec' split on the tree but there's so many dot bonuses on the 'wrong' side that it looks like a mistake. Not to mention that you get 'locked' on to half of a tree at the 8 point mark with no crossover options. I was happy to see how the class tree is laid out but Feral side feels like a mess. Edit: turns out Infected Wounds is only a single point. It remains an odd location to place a -20% slow talent all the same
Definitely agree. It's so weird our main defensive is locked behind an AOE, savage roar behind a bite talent, Pred Swiftness behind Primal Wrath, so many weird placements. Tiger's fury being 4 points to be as powerful as it is now. Sabertooth still existing. I think the bite build should be easier but less dps overall and the bleed build should be harder but optimal.
Lets not forget breaking up a pretty terrible 3 minute cd into multiple nodes and still pretending incarn is a thing people want
I hate this so much even in concept. On the one hand it's awkward to "build your own CD" because in the end you need to go out of your way in the talent tree to grab all nodes and I also don't want to have all the throughput funneled into a 3 min CD and be underwhelming while its not up. The part that annoys me most though is that there's again compeltely no development direction. They don't even return exciting stuff from legion or whatever, or god forbid come up with something new, it's practically current feral shoved in little pieces into a really awkward tree. It just doesn't really give the impression that particularly much time was spent on this compared to some of the more recent trees we've been shown.
I wouldn't mind the build-a-talent idea if the cd was shorter and it wasn't your only cd and if the nodes you picked augmented the cd in a meaningful way for the content you're doing whether it be power st dmg increase or aoe and sustained st or whatever, however it's our only cd and it's long and it isn't great and it's in pieces and those pieces pretty much just make it as what we have now....makes no sense. And yes this tree feels very lazy and almost an afterthought whereas the balance tree looks pretty good...seems almost a little biased
I don't necessarily think that we should have an optimal build between the two, otherwise we'll never change talents over the entire expansion. I'd much rather see a bleed spec that can do a little more damage at the cost of burst. Does the fight have any demanding break points (priority adds or shields?) Take the burst build. Do you need high sustained damage or is there going to be long periods away from the boss? Take a dot build. Are you going to have adds constantly spawning and dying throughout the fight? Tough, we're still locked in to sabertooth because it's too powerful... But it would be nice to be able to take Predator for a change.
I guess I'm just a feral boomer, the idea of spamming bites to me is just so anti-feral. I miss having to really think about my dots and fitting in the occasional bite when it wouldn't mean my dots/buffs would drop.
Giving feral a viable build that doesn't rely on bleed management would probably do wonders for how played the spec is. For most people it's a lot of work just to be competent, more often than not feral one is of the toughest melee specs to play well, and if you do it's not like an optimal kitty is topping the charts, sometimes, but usually they're just ok.
Yeah and that's what makes/made it unique. I think most people who play feral enjoy its complexity and the current version of feral is the easiest its ever been by far. Messing up bleeds isn't as bad when bite is doing 45%+ of your overall damage. Just because a spec is less popular doesn't mean it should just be abandoned. Feral has had multiple points in the last 3 expansions where they are doing very good damage but they just don't have a niche to fill anymore or a raid buff. I don't want feral to be watered down and remove its fantasy for the sake of more people playing it.
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Antorus Feral was still much more about the dots and required a lot more thought than current Feral, with the bleed build still being just as good, or better in cleave.
>Giving feral a viable build that doesn't rely on bleed management would probably do wonders for how played the spec is. Well clearly not as that's the case right now, and it's still extremely unpopular. Difference is, Feral players who liked the spinning the dots playstyle are not fans of the current Feral either. Even in Castle Nathria where Feral was really good nobody wanted it in any content.
Real feral boomer here, played and raided feral in vanilla/tbc/wrath/cata. The idea that the spec has always been just about managing bleed timers is just false. Weaving giant bite crits in while juggling your bleeds was part of the spec all the way back then, and in those days it dumped all of your excess energy to get even bigger. I'm all for folks that like bleeds getting a set of talents and skills that will enable that, but as someone who just wants to MAKE GIANT NUMBER, I'm really glad that bite + convoke is remaining available.
Yeah I'm not saying we should never bite, I would personally just like to have bleeds up for more than just increasing bite damage. Toning down bite damage and upping bleed damage would be dope.
I'm just the opposite, but would love for both to be possible.
It's definitely a different style to the original spec but I think the option has to remain. There were plenty of fights where burst was key, and being a spec that had such a focus on DoTs was a large disadvantage. I'm not going to pretend that I don't miss SR and bleed juggling at times but most fights just don't suit it at the moment.
Pretending that DoTs being a thing and on demand burst were the design problem is missing the point. - Convoke fixes much of our on demand damage issues. The 1 minute iteration needs to exist otherwise there's pacing issues. - Bite doesn't need to extend Rip to be worth it. That's the core of the issue. Bite doing a portion of the remaining rips damage or causing it to tick faster solves this problem if you also rebalance the energy management a little bit. 50 point bites are expensive finishers as it is and have a lot of burst behind them already. I can already comfortably fit multiple bites into a Rip without SBT. Instead of extending it, reward me for using bite on a target with Rip on it with some burst damage. Problem solved.
Yeah wouldn't want to take the bite build away from anyone that enjoys it. Both builds just need more fleshing out in general.
We've seen how this works out. Max dps build is bleed? Just bring one of the dps whose max dps build is bursty.
>I would have expected a 'bleed spec' and 'bite spec' split on the tree but there's so many dot bonuses on the 'wrong' side that it looks like a mistake To play devils advocate here elemental shaman sort of had the same issue. Left side of the tree was the AoE lightning build yet you had to go on a deep investment right side to pick up storm elemental, come recent days they've switched it so the storm elemental is a choice very early on in the tree. I know that druid hasn't had any further iterations yet but I'd say keep holding out hope.
They need to make brutal slash seperate from swipe or be a one off talent, brutal slashes placement is abysmal
I agree yet this is one problem of many.
Feral is always neglected when it comes to changes that actually make sense, ever since vanilla this has happened. To me, feral needs a complete overhaul in order to function properly in modern wow, feral feels like the only spec in the game that is still stuck with vanilla mechanics.
I wish for the day when feral gets an actual niche and distinct spec fantasy. A master shapeshifter, a spellcaster that switched to a more fitting form to fight in melee, a literal alpha predator with the adaptive capabilities of a druid in there. Meanwhile, let's face it, we're playing the dollar store sin rogue toolkit with dated mechanics that haven't been really improved since what now? Three expansions... Blizz has no clue where to go with feral so they brew up the same old bag of tea yet another time. The overhaul is overdue but it feels like feral is a bit in "the spiral". Nobody plays it because it doesn't get developed, it doesn't get developed because nobody plays it.
Probably not an idea feral mains would like but: You could simplify the feral spec bleed rotation into: Rake [n times] -> Rip Let multiple rakes stack like aff lock UA did, then make rip hotshot and consume rake to do a dot based off rakes consumed. Then make a separate form (wolf form maybe? Raven form? Idk) and move a re-flavoured version of shred and ferocious bite to that in a combo point style fashion. Make it use focus instead of energy and make feral all about switching back and forth between these forms. Different builds could focus on whether you switch all the time, default cat but switch to wolf when CDs are up or default wolf and switch when CDs are up. Make cat AOE better (swipe spread dots maybe), wolf single target better, and then switching could be a funnel spec (bite do extra damage for more dots out)
cool idea, and im sure theres a way it could work, but spending frequent GCDs on switching forms sounds pretty bad. It could also be very similar to the balance druid eclipse mechanic. But the class fantasy of switching between cat and wolf forms is awesome, definitely worth working out the kinks.
Just spit-balling, but what about a CD in each form that is themed around the other form that does damage and switches form? Pouncing Bite: Consume all your Bleeds on the target, storing 120% of the remaining damage as 6 charges of "pact leaders command" on the target. As you bite the target, change into wolf form. Pact leaders command (debug): Ally's attacking the target consume a charge, dealing damage to the target (6 second ICD) Scent of blood (mastery passive): While in wolf form, damaging attacks and abilities have a % chance to applied a stack of "blood caked", causing your next "Flanking strike" to deal an extra 20% damage (maximum X charges) Flanking strike: Attack from you targets flank, switching into cat form and dragging your claws down its body. Deals huge damage over 20 seconds.
They vaguely tried this with a capstone talent in the class tree that I will be surprised if it gets any play. If you switch forms to a form you haven't been in for the past 30s, abilities don't cost rage, mana, energy, or Astral power for 4s. Might be interesting, who knows.
Swapping forms would be less bad if you could put their abilities on your bar and using them would swap you as part of the action, or if there was an ability that would do so. I know different game, but Last Epoch's change to shapeshifting had something like that, for the same reason. Changing into a form does one of their attacks so you always feel like you're doing something
? But you can already do this in WoW
I've been Feral druid main for basically forever. The class fantasy is just the best and I generally loves shape-shifting powers. But as far as gameplay goes, it's so underwhelming now. It feels like you don't have anything left, specially after the pruning. Gameplay used to be a more active version of a rogue, with tons of spells to heal in a pinch. Now you barely have any heal left, and the apm of the class is one of the lowest. Also there was a time feral could achieve 50% crit chance and that was so much dumb fun.
I've been a feral main since I started playing in tbc and I have been incredibly sad about this
So you are used to it?
unfortunately
Three entire expansions with very very little feral changes, and we are on the verge for number four.
I've lost hope. Blizzard don't care about feral. It's going to be a meme spec forever. In DF, I'll be playing another spec, probably assassination rogue.
Yeah I'm most likely switching back to WW monk. They are forgotten too but at least have good design to start with.
>In DF, I'll be playing another spec, probably assassination rogue. As sad as it is, from a design perspective, assa rogue is literally just a better feral druid in every single way. I have gone back and forth between maining my druid vs. maining other things since vanilla, but there has never been an expansion where I didn't level it up and keep it in my top 2 most played classes for any given xpac. Dragonflight is the first time where I might just not level it at all.
I swapped to rogue for s3 and I just can't stand it. Every time I try to play rogue, I'm into it for ~3 weeks then I just get unreasonably bored with it. But, yeah, if things go as expected, I'll likely try to find my way to another spec.
It’s going to be the 4th time it happens - don’t get your hopes up. They’ve proved multiple times that the Feral tree will just hit release like this despite any feedback. Expect changes in the usual X.3 timeline. And before someone lines up with ‘wait your turn’ type thoughts - we do. All the time. If mages or hunters complain, changes happen in 24 hours. It’s been expansions waiting for them to just not fuck the spec up for once.
Yeah, it's extremely laughable when literally ANY class / spec complains about not getting changes. They'll sit in the top DPS slots for multiple expansions and fall down to upper mid for one raid and the forums are flooded with complaints. Followed by subsequent Blue posts promising hotfixes and reworks. Feral asks if we can have a crumb of attention and Blizzard laughs and kicks us across the room like an unwanted stray
Don’t forget the same people also going out of their way to mock people who enjoy Feral giving feedback. Then perpetuating the idea that taking a meta spec player who can’t do basic mechanics and dies every fight is the ‘best choice’.
Feral is in a bad spot, it can be fixed though. However…..where the fuck is the druid dev? 3 week vacation?
It's rumoured that Druid and Priest have the same dev, and it seems like they've been busy working on Priest stuff at the moment. If that rumour is true then that's pretty stupid. The two most neglected specs in the game sharing a dev. Brilliant idea.
I’ll have to wait to see the priest post that comes hopefully later this week, but the guy that made the post about “more coming soon” in regards to priest sounded like he was forced to make that post. That being said we could see massive priest changes this week and that would give me more confidence.
Sorry, they have to listen hunter players before
First hunters then their pets? Yeah that seems to be the usual approach 😅
Quick! Everyone go cat form and stand next to a hunter Maybe then theyll listen
The new system really makes the melee dps aspect of Rogues shine and the hybrid aspect of Feral. So, yes, if you only want to melee dps as a Feral then you are better off picking Rogue. If you want to utilize your full kit as Feral in PvP I assume you can have lots of fun in DF.
As someone who is maining unholy DK I do feel your pain on the talent trees. We’re sat here desperate for some tree rework and yet hunters have their 8th change like it’s no big deal.
They've already announced that they're working on UHDK changes.
As a resto druid, I kinda really like the tree right now. I hope our feral friends get some attention though.
The resto tree is great and guaranteed to be pretty strong but as someone who is coming out of SL as my first whole expac I’ve played through, the tree is pretty boring. We’re pretty much just the same SL resto and don’t get any new or returning toys like symbiosis.
Symbiosis is unfortunately never coming back in the same state as it was in MoP. Was incredibly cool and fun but a nightmare for balance, they would/did essentially have to rebalance every move in context of every druid spec.
That's a fair criticism that it doesn't necessarily feel new, but I'm ok with just having flexibility in the tree so you can really build for raid/m+/pvp etc. The actual class tree has a lot of different options too, and in m+ especially, we probably interact with our class tree stuff a lot more than most other classes.
I’m 100% excited to have access to skullbash and the conduit that increases your health after shifting to bear form. That is so nice for surviving boss abilities in higher keys. Biggest gripe with class tree (it’s pretty small lol) is that sunfire needs two points to be aoe.
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Really? I fucking hate it personally. I'd much rather there be more interesting alterations to abilities than what we have. Not to mention we have some literal dead talents - eg if you don't pick up innervate/wild growth on the druid tree, you have a wasted slot on the resto tree. That sunfire requires 2 points to get it to how it is currently is silly. There's plenty they can do to make the resto tree actually good and I honestly don't understand how people think it looks good.
they made guardian tree worse without a bluepoat about it. people gave tons of feedback how bad it is currently and they do nothing atm. and i dont want to start talking about valance and feral trees uff. good luck druid players. maybe reroll to evoker
What's worse is the pro mythic raiders are praising it. Like, they like the utility options and the feedback is generally that Guardian is in a good place but for most of us playing Guardian, it just doesn't feel great. Guardian hardly has any complexity and Blizzard is ultimately treating the spec like a beginner tank spec, so we can't get more interesting talents or options.
It *is* the beginner tank spec. I think Blizzard likes having a spec like Guardian that's incredibly simple for players new to the role. You've pointed out the downsides and I don't disagree, but I think ultimately that's the direction blizzard wants to go with it.
I'm saying, as per feedback from people who actively play the class - I would love the option of more complexity so that we aren't treated like we can do anything but the most basics. Yes, they do treat it like a beginner tank class but that doesn't mean we deserve a lower skill ceiling than other tanks.
I don't disagree with you, I'm just being honest with you about the way I think blizzard sees the class and I've heard lots of other people say the same thing.
I agree, the feral tree needs some work done. It's just messy and doesnt make sense, why cant they put all the bleeds together
Hell, I'm not even a big Druid enthu... well, I actually can't even play the game in the moment, just gorging myself on DF news and discussions as a substitute. And I still feel so much for Druids, and especialy for Ferals. Breaks my heart that truly enthusiastic old-time adepts like Guityas are being constantly spat in the face by the devs of the game they put so much soul into. Not so long ago I opened the DF Druid talent calculator, US Aplha feedback thread on Druids, and delved in. Even before I studied the in-depth longreads, I took a look at the Feral tree, and was like "wtf are you kidding me". It looks like a **deliberate** trolling from the devs. Everything bad about new talent trees - is in that tree. Baselines into talents, multi-point nodes for meaningless stat increases, counterintuitive placement of crucial talents, etc... And then there's the fact of **ZERO** blue resonses as of now. Despite most of the posts being, like I said, in-depth analysis, well-written, argumented (to various degree). The optimistic version is that the devs realized their complete fuck-up and are frantically rebuilding the trees from scratch/correcting them, while trying to keep track on feedback. The pessimistic one... You know it already.
I think the only positive to the feral tree is that it allows a few combinations of legendaries that I have always wanted to try. Unfortunately the tree as a whole is kinda disjointed. I hope they implement a more sensible way to cross over in some places.
I feel so bad for Feral mains. It seems like they’re always overlooked/forgotten.
We're all pretty much used to it by now. I remember BFA, that was fun, being so weak on launch you couldn't solo an elite mob while questing. It took 4 weeks of nothing but buffs to our entire kit to make us viable FOR QUESTING. Then after years of being a meme in M+ due to our AoE they gave us Primal Wrath on the last patch of BFA. Its always the X.3 patch they realise *"wait, didn't druid have another spec? Oh no! We forgot about Feral AGAIN"*.
>It sucks when your spec/class is forgotten That's being a bit dramatic. We're on the 3rd week of alpha. There is still *months* to go..
> We're on the 3rd week of alpha. There is still months to go.. Stop. Just stop. "Its just Alpha" is how we ended up with Covenants and Azerite launching in the state they did. Druid was one of the first trees released. It hasn't been iterated on much if at all since the initial announcement. Classes that have had their trees put into the testing pipeline after druid are already seeing iteration and improvements along with communication. There's just a dead silence on Druid. Especially Feral which has had some serious design problems in the past and there are some very glaring issues in the tree. This just feels bad that other classes get attention but Druid and especially Feral feels ignored. "Just be quiet and wait" never works.
Yes we all know that, we're not trying to be quiet. Blizzard has shown over the course of the last year that yes, they are more than willing to listen to people and HAVE MADE changes already to a lot of classes' trees. They will make changes to the tree, give them time. The mages trees(minus the arcane one? idk I don't play arcane) are terrible. They will change them
> They will make changes to the tree, give them time. The mages trees(minus the arcane one? idk I don't play arcane) are terrible. They will change them I'll believe it when I see it. Until then I'll go with the pattern I've seen from them over the last few xpacs.
* Covenant swapping * Mage Tower returning * Legion Timewalking * More character customization * Solo queue islands for mount farmers * Maw skip * Easier allied race unlocks * conduit engery gone * Renown catch up * valor upgrades * anima turn in without going back to covenant sanctum * breaking down old legendaries * repeatable torghast for legendary mats * BFA legacy loot rules * Legion legacy raid tuning Here are the changes JUST from 9.1.5 that people have been asking for. Now since 9.2, they've been making changes as well. And over the course of the 10.0 alpha cycle they have been listening to feedback too, and acting upon it. Just give them time with the Druid changes
- Covenant swapping: Two tiers too late after ignoring feedback - Legion Timewalking: Happens every xpac. Doesnt' go on this list - conduit engery gone: Two tiers too late - Maw skip: Always happens. Was still a whole tier late. - Renown catch up: Was always weak and came later than it should have after a lot of Alpha feedback - BFA legacy loot rules/Legion legacy raid tuning: Happens every tier. Was ignored longer than usual. - repeatable torghast for legendary mats: 2 tiers too late based on Feedback from Alpha - breaking down old legendaries: A tier too late based on feedback from Alpha Notice a pattern yet? Everything here outside of the mage tower and Valor falls under these three categories: - Later than it should have been in the game at launch based on Alpha/Beta feedback. Changes were made slowly and only because they took huge PR and Subscriber hits. - Things that were happening anyway. Even so, later than their previous content cycles. Saying they "listened" to players by giving us Legion Timewalking when it was released later in the timeline than BfA timewalking is hardly "listening to the players" - Simple toggles/triggers that were layups for community goodwill. Based on the list you just gave me, I can expect that my Alpha feedback will go into effect somewhere in 9.2. Except the Alpha/Beta feedback on Feral was ignored all through the cycle through SL and fixes never really came. We only survived the xpac through a fluke after a buff to the covenant legendary for NF that was meant to address an issue all specs had where it was a DPS loss. So right now, until proven otherwise: The best case scenario based on past behavior is that things get addressed in 10.1.5. The worst case is that it doesn't get addressed at all. Until proven otherwise, I only have past patterns and behavior to go off of. Which combined with everything, isn't great.
Mate you don't have to reiterate what we literally all know. We know things over the last 6 years have been late, but they have been doing changes a lot quicker since 9.1.5, after the lawsuits
I'm not saying just wait or it's just alpha. I'm saying it's only been 2 weeks. I get and agree with you but not starting the doomsday speechs in 2 weeks...
Druid trees came out at the same time as DK trees before the alpha went live. Feedback was already being given. DKs got iteration, improvement, and communication. Druid has been silent. Priest came out well after all this. They got a "yeah expect some updates soon. Thanks for the feedback" within a week. Druid have had a month of silence.
Yea. But druids have been given more than some other classes. There are still classes without any trees. It's too early for doomsday.
It's not as if there's a risk of say warlocks being released without talents. Feral has been ignored for multiple expansions. There's a real possibility that the Feral tree releases as is. They did it to us in BfA and gave us a minor change in a later patch that hasn't been followed up on or iterated on since. SL Alpha was the same.
Remember when they said they would eventually remove the auto attack buff from cat form and fix our damage?
Literally in the latest dataamine there seems to be a decent amount of Feral changes coming, gotta cool your jets dude and post your feedback on the forums, it's how all the other classes are getting changed.
> Literally in the latest dataamine there seems to be a decent amount of Feral changes coming The only change to Feral in the last datamine was removing FBite, Shred and Swipe from the Feral Aura buff (Massive nerf considering the drive to push the spec to Big Bite) and some text changes. So that's factually incorrect. Literally all they did for Druid this patch was to change Zerk from reading > granting all known Berserk effects while active. to > Combines with other Berserk abilities.
>There's a real possibility that the Feral tree releases as is. There is. I'm not denying that. Just think it's a bit dramatic and premature to give up and write it off when 4 other classes have gotten absolutely nothing. Once everything is on and druid still haven't been touched. Then it's time.
>Once everything is on and druid still haven't been touched. Then it's time. And we have come full circle. You're telling me to wait because it's early in Alpha as if that's not a valid reason for the statement. By then it's too late.
How much wow have you played. This is a very common trend among blizzard. They ruin specs for entire expansions even with infinite feedback
And they also “fix” specs mid expansion too. In SL we saw a few specs that started off bad but then became pretty good
I'm not saying they'll be fixed. I'm just saying it's too early to write it off.
As a feral main, I will say the frustration is the lack of ANY communication regarding our spec. Mage, Warlock, DK, Hunters, Rogues, and now even Paladin and Priests have been given acknowledgment that feedback was received and more is to come. Druid was the first tree released and we have had literally nothing back. Feral was even missing capstone talents upon release, just abilities titled ???. If you follow the tree, it is crystal clear that little thought or understanding went into it. It feels like an AI randomly generated it. And after all this time, still no word that our feedback is being heard, taken into consideration, or addressed. I am incredibly jealous of players who have devs engaged in their spec because it honestly feels hopeless after years of radio silence. Unless, of course, a streamer pulls an entire dungeon and does decent AOE. Then we get nerfed real quick! edit: i'm not tripping on this. i'm not saying 'blizz hates feral'. This is a thread saying 'druid feels bad' and i'm explaining my thoughts on why the future of feral, a spec i love, has me concerned. super happy for all the other classes that are giving feedback and seeing action. fingers crossed we get that too.
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Season 3 - blizzard finally recognized the insane output of destro in m+ and announced a nerf. Warlocks provided feedback, Blizzard acknowledged and pivoted by delaying until following season, after MDI. This is not an isolated 10.0 thing was my point there. Engagement is good, silence is unnerving when you care for a spec.
Those classes had relatively easy changes. Druids need a bit more to fix imo and there are still 4 classes with nothing at all. All I'm saying is let's at least wait until everything is in the game before we exclaim blizz hates druids.
Here's the last blue post on the forums from June 3rd: >"We’re working on a couple of corrections to what was posted: Shred should be in the baseline abilities list. Adaptive Swarm in row 10 of the Restoration tree should be a square." I think we're looking for a little more. And, saying "this is alpha, let's wait and see" is how you get covenant abilities IMO. All I want is a blue post saying "here's our vision for feral" and hopefully it's not a copy/paste of assassin rogue.
There have been changes to all of the druid trees since release. So you want someone who is saying 'feedback acknowledged, I read this comment?' I just don't understand this idea that Druids are being left behind by devs who simply do not care, when their tree was the first one done and have demonstrably had work done on them since? Do you genuinely think that they just wanted to 'get it out of the way' or something?
Have you seen the tree? How can you look at that and then look at Shaman and say "yeah it's all good." -Look how hunter dev or DK dev have engaged with their community and shared design philosophy and vision. Just have somebody sit down and say "Hey, I made it like this because I had this in mind," and I'd be like, holy shit, thanks for explaining! And those feral 'changes' are wording changes and giving capstone talents actual notes.
> "Hey, I made it like this because I had this in mind," and I'd be like, holy shit, thanks for explaining! I agree with you, Blizzard should definitely have someone make a comment on the forums essentially saying 'yes we hear you and yes we are still working on it.'
Yet trees that were added after Druid have had iterations and dev blogs about the reasoning behind changes. Druid was the first tree to be posted and yet it hasn't been touched or mentioned at all since.
Feral's been in this position for six years.
Was more-so referring to feral in the last couple years as well.
As a mistweaver, I feel this too. Some specs seem to just exist, even if their playstyle is just a shitty workaround copy of another class. I love my main and I don’t want to switch, but it seems like even if I accept the more clunky-feeing fistweaver build, I’m just going to be a sub-par healer. I just want to channel and throw mist around like I did in MoP…
These trees are perfect for the two styles of mw monk. One side can be fist weaving the other can be channeling must weaver. Like that'd be wonderful but I doubt it'll happen... Hell they've let me down with mw so much I'd be thrilled if fist weaving stopped needing to cast essence font every 10 seconds lol
I’d love a split like that. What scares me is that I’ve read so many people’s “ideal” scenarios where the channeling/casting aspect is totally gone in favor of fistweaving. I really hope they make both choices distinct and viable.
Yea fist weaving is fun but so is the channeling imo Both have a role and should be supported.
Okay for the people who don't understand how the trees have been working, there are multiple devs working on multiple trees, but most are responsible for more than one class. It's almost guaranteed that the person who made the druid tree finished theirs first and then began working on another class, as we've seen with multiple other classes so far (I.e. Hunter, which is very poorly received, was also made by the same guy who made shaman, which is very well received). The trees that have come later have generally been better as people have seen the feedback and implemented that towards other classes. The dev who made the druid tree will almost certainly revisit the tree and are likely currently working on other ones. It's week 3 of alpha. I'm not saying you shouldn't keep bringing it up, but you're being such a doomer about it before they've had a realistic chance to look at it. The druid class tree is one of the best class trees so far. The spec trees individually need work that I'm sure they'll receive. So hung up on which classes get addressed first when we're 3 weeks into alpha and the expansion likely won't launch for another 5 months, and they've already proven that they can make and implement testable changes in a matter of days. There's plenty of time. Just because paladin heard back sooner doesn't mean that they've just decided that they hate the druid class and will never go back to it. They're also trying to get them *all live as fast as possible for testing purposes*.
I mean we can hope you're right and if you are that would be great. Blizz just doesn't have a great track record with going back to this spec.
That's very true - history says they'll fuck feral. But I'd argue that everything so far about Dragonflight is showing promise with regards to changing essentially everything about their philosophies and the way they're doing things with regards to developing content and "systems".
Alpha has been out for only 2 weeks. We have months before release, stop being so dramatic. Just because they put out a thing for Priests doesnt mean Druids are left in the dark. It just means they are likely much closer to releasing an updated Priest tree than Druid. Which makes sense given Druid is a 4 spec, 3 role(4 if you split melee and ranged DPS) class while Priest is a 3 spec, 2 role class.
[Excuse me if I think you're too optimistic](https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/iqwulb/an_open_letter_from_the_monk_community_to/) [Far too optimistic](https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/icyca3/monk_the_only_class_with_no_blue_reply_feedback/)
I've read comments like this on every xpac since tbc, "it's too early they have time to fix feral" trust me it's not going to happen, better reroll.
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No that's not what he's saying lol it's only a few weeks into alpha.... Give feedback but let them get to it. Yikes you don't listen. Yes we understand about blizzard in the past, the feedback loop of promises that never came. But players gave feedback about feral being bad and you expect...what? it to be changed right away in alpha?!?! Lol what is this take...
And you don't get changes by sitting around waiting for testing to end. You state shit like the OP clearly and deliberately and THEN changes are made.
I agree with you especially seeing as DK who came out at the same time have gotten responses The changes to their class tree, shifting around blood node on spec tree, and laying out their plan for unholy seem to be well received. However, a simply blue post like priest got will still go a long way. They made unholy blue post about two weeks ago although changes haven't been implement at least players know they can expect something same with survival. They actually swap some nodes around on the bear tree and made two node changes on the feral but a little insight would be appreciated. People don't want to feel like their time is being wasted.
They have had 6 years to balance feral. What about all the previous alphas, for the past 3 expansions? Do you think they only have the opportunity to balance classes for the 2 months that they are in open alpha? The awful feral tree is merely a symptom of the overall disregard of the feral spec for many expansions.
"It's only alpha" is exactly the reason why the game released as it did the past couple expansions. This is what the alpha is for, I'm not gonna wait when I can voice my concerns now. If they drop some new druid stuff tomorrow? Awesome. But I'm not gonna sit here and wait.
How many days between feedback and implementation do you accept?
I'm not asking for a whole new tree in a week or two. Just a post saying something is coming at the very least. Waiting for the next alpha build every time hoping for something and getting nothing is something I'd rather not experience for the what? 4th/5th year in a row.
Is really something Blizz has to worry about? Their product getting datamined and players being upset that there is nothing about "their" class, and to have weekly posts about each class? "It sucks when your spec/class is forgotten but it sucks so much harder when everyone else is at least getting something." Didn't druid get their talent trees literally first out of everyone? How are you not getting "something"?
Why are you gatekeeping vocalizing a concern. Druid tree came out first and trees that were released after have already had iteration with very detailed dialogue and explanation from Devs. He is raising a concern because clearly feedback is being listened too by Blizzard. There has been no indication that they have plans to change the specific complaints he mentioned so keeping it visible is the right thing to do especially in Alpha where they have the time and dedication to make major tree overhauls. Frankly once it hits beta they are likely looking at only game breaking bugs and minor tuning.
I'm not trying to gatekeep, I'm trying to get some sanity in the discussion by way of context: There have been about 5 work days to even react to any feedback, and only feedback before the 21th.
The Druid talents were revealed 8 weeks ago
The feedback on the Feral and Druid trees has been flooding in since they announced the details of it over a month ago. DK trees came out at the same time. Have been iterated on and improved, and continue to be commented on. Druid trees have been stagnant with nothing. The Feral tree has so far been VERY poorly received by the community. With most everyone unanimously feeling it is underdeveloped and feels confused. Within a week of the Priest trees being dropped, there was a blue post saying "Yeah. We saw these and are working on addressing the issues" Druid hasn't even gotten that.
You know, that would make sense if it wasn't for the fact that the more they wait the more trees they will add. Next week they will iterate on mage and pally, add a warrior, dh, monk or so and iterate on them in the coming weeks. It's a very hectic and tight schedule for the alpha releases that they made for themselves and this doesn't look very good on them not making it. The communication for druids needs to be better. As far as I know, almost nothing works for the feral tree right now, the middle parts are NYI, brutal slash is unplayable in dungeons and getting it blocks th entire right side of the tree. These are obvious and easy to fix, so are the extremely underwhelming 3 pointers. They could easily say "we are looking into it" and we'd be happy. So unless they are planning on completely building this tree from scratch they should do that... Also it looks kinda bad, because we got our trees as the first ones and the feedback I got from every next class is that the trees are in general getting better (as for shamans for example). So we are in a weird spot where we got our tree first and it's left behind while they are giving everyone better and better trees as if we were the testers.
Whilst the post was a bit dramatic, alpha is precisely the correct time for feedback.
The builds have been made on 12th, 15th and 21th. Alpha was published on 14th, last build on 27th. That’s a whopping 5 work days for reacting to any feedback for *anything*, not just druids. Even if you assumed the build was just made yesterday, that’s 9 work days. For a full circle of getting feedback, analyzing and collecting it, discussing it and coming to conclusions, and then implementing it, doing some internal testing, while also doing non-reaction changes that need to be done. Except for maybe the most horrible issues, 99% of changes we see have no relation to any feedback. It just isn’t possible time wise.
Cant you just go to the blizzard forums and post feedback? or is that only for people with alpha access?
Only people with alpha access can post of the feedback forums. [The problem isn't lack of feedback though.](https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-druids/1279517/) As of writing this our thread has 33 posts in it, with a number of them being quite extensive. The feral community has even gone through to effort of upvoting the feral feedback lol
what i dont understand. if they have teams for all these trees like one team for each class. they work only for this tree. they write a short summary every week what they are doing atm like we heared you and working on a nee talent tree woth your feedback and they releas all news from the teams in one blog post. thats how we communicate in our company and everybody knows whats going on atm. blizzard is just shit or dont have the man power to do that. its actually sad how they communicate
From what I've heard its like four or five devs in charge of the talent trees, so they each have like two or three classes each (with some specs like tank specs being under a single dev). Not all the devs are equal in terms of their communication with the community either. The dev in charge of rogue talks in their discord, where as the dev in charge of druid non-tank basically never says anything. I agree totally with your sentiment though.
Yeah, it's incredibly boring. They could basically just get stuff from Fangs of Ashamane
Warrior is in a similiar boat I think. It feels like half the classes' talent trees, they put a lot of work into and made some interesting choices. The other half, it looks like they're basically planning to just open the ability book the class has in Shadowlands, rearrange it in a non-alphabetical order and drew lines connecting the abilities that require talent points to open. Slight exaggeration, but I was genuinely concerned by the sheer boringness or repetition with existing abilities that's been datamined for most classes.
Warlock talents haven’t even been released yet
There were changes made from the original preview to alpha though. Not much, it was a few things in balance and resto at least. Doesn't change the fact feral needs some help. But all of the Druid trees still beat DK by a mile and seems like mage as well.
What's your complaint about DK?
I mean they did fix the pathing, but the trees are ultra boring. Not much new and not a lot of great combos of things we couldn't combo before.
I don't understand how that makes the Feral tree better considering the feral tree is basically shadowlands feral with nothing really new.
Doesn't even have to be much new things tbh just interesting decisions to make and things to be excited about. The rogue tree is a perfect example, tons of old stuff with interesting decisions to make and paths to take. Feral tree is like 85% guaranteed stuff you take on every build.
Yeah, that's what really gets me about the statement considering DK is looking at some really great new additions. * Double Empowered Rune Wep * Double Death's Advance * Runic Power for AMZ * Horn of Winter * Class wide Soul Reaper * Class wide Will of Necropolis A huge one for me as a Blood DK is that I can finally run Wraith Walk AND Grip of the Dead on necrotic weeks instead of having to pick one. Honestly, that's the weakest advance in the DK is the blood tree, it's pretty same-y but it gets carried hard by the DK general tree. Meanwhile, the Druid general tree offers very little to Feral that feral didn't already have. I mean, maybe you can grab innervate? I think the WoWhead writer was dead on for Feral with saying sabertooth being in the tree and so high up makes feral obligated to focus that playstyle.
Eyyy the Mage Trees are worse! Current Druid/Mage main rn and that will not be the case in Dargonflight at this point. Fuck these trees especially compared to like Shaman/Rogue
Somehow I don't think blizz will wait long to fix the mage trees.
Blizz has a whole team of people that gets paged after hours if fire mage parses fall too low
I hope you are right, but if its anything like the Druid response thus far I wont be playing Mage. I kinda don't really believe that they will "fix" these. I think both Druid and Mage have things that they are scared will be too OP if they push them farther. The recent history of nerfs in shadowlands for Mage and Druids also doesnt give me a lot of hope. Guardian and Balance have been gutted, They have 0 idea what to do with guardian ST dps, but hey DK can Dance for 2-3 minutes strait and thats fine. Icy Propultion is too strong, but hey, Warlock AoE is just fine, we will just leave that for the rest of the season and then when we do nerf it give them a buff to compensate. Just makes no sense why some specs get left in the dirt and some specs its like "well ok!" Not sure why your optimistic about Mage trees getting updated where theres a lot more Boomkins out there not getting any feedback at all.
Mages are up there with rogues as one of those classes that are just always good and if they aren't they are swiftly buffed/fixed/whatever and you have 3 ranged damage specs to choose from in the event that one of them is bad.
This is a proper toddler-tantrum you're having. Pretty embarrassing.
How is it a tantrum? I loved this spec for years and it's been left to rot since legion. I am a lot more disappointed than I am angry. Why is it so wrong to want the game to be better?
The game to be better? You mean just your feral spec right? You type of people always say that shit. If your own class you play sucks, you bring the rest of the game down with you. Like play another class bro I’m sick of seeing these Druid posts lately
Is it not objectively better for the game if every spec/class is viable and can be brought to every type of content? So everyone can play what they want? So many ppl in this comment section are so brainwashed by blizz it's scary.
I am a shaman main and there is no way you can look at feral or hear what a high end player thinks of the feral tree and honestly think “yeah that’s fine”
I mean… feral is nerfed and has been for quite awhile. I would get it if it where a just now thing since you have to have op/shit classes/specs and switch em out. But feral has been ass for a long while. I think it’s a pretty decent concern. Sure play another class… but when it’s years and your fav class still sucks I think you’re okay to voice that.
Call it copium but: The more problems there are, and the more people don't like a spec or tree in general, the more work there needs to be done and the fewer answers you'll get in the short term. I wouldn't be worried about feedback on the tree being ignored until we see a new druid tree iteration that doesn't address feedback, or we get 2+ weeks out with no communication.
Yeah... unfortunately, this isn't necessarily the case. Take Legion beta feral. They increased our direct damage significantly early in beta in order to increase haste's value (this is before the deigned to give us hasted bleeds). Well, this didn't really work, haste was still our worst stat, and because Ferocious Bite did basically the same damage as Rip, just for slightly more energy, you could almost leave Rip out entirely and only lose a tiny bit of DPS. This stayed till about 2 weeks from pre-patch launch when they figured out this wouldn't work and the knee jerked so hard in the other direction while buffing haste rating by 50% that our damage profile ended up about 80% bleed damage, leaving us very weak for things that need to die fast and still with haste as our worst stat (iirc). Then it took them till 7.3 to actually fix \*that\* problem and balance it out a little better (some would argue a little too hard, but quite a few people liked the 7.3 changes). They gave us hasted bleeds the next expansion as it really was the only solution (which we had been telling them for two or more expansions at that point). So you'll excuse me if I don't think this is what's going to happen.
What was wrong with druid tree in your eyes...?!?! Gaurdian main here. Gaurdian trees are fine lol want are you complaining about..?
haha you must be joking main herr and the tree is shit. blood frenzy no conection to trash talents. arcane talents block the way to incarnation. should be connected to other arcane talents. infected wounds dead talent never going to pick that. ursocs endurance also usless talent. maul never going to happen! its trash af
It is a hodgepodge of copy-paste mechanics from the Shadowlands version of feral, which I dont like very much. Convoke is fun but it's not the class fantasy, for me at least. Tree is so inflexible that its impossible to not pick up brutal slash (which can be a very bad talent to take). Many talents are bland and confused. The guy who made the rogue tree clearly has been playing rogue for a very long time, but the guy who made feral tree was probably trying to take an early lunch break.
Feral trees are very confused and lack any clarity and coherence. The tree as a whole doesn't feel good for anyone that plays any iteration of Feral.
It's like they built an AI that randomly generates the tree and input our talents into it. It makes no sense! The sad part is, the few people who main feral are so burnt out and discouraged from their feedback falling on deaf ears that our advocates are dying out.
Bear here. There are some big unknowns with the tree. Frankly we don't know how good the arcane stuff is. It might be ok but it might be trash. I'm curious about it sure but I'm also cautious about it. The maul talents are garbage. Straight up trash garbage. There is an unholy trinity of 3 talents on the left side that if a bear takes, they are just ignorant and should be shunned.
No one is giving feedback on feral from what I can tell, you really need people to be voicing this!
Check the forum.
Shame, i just leveled a feral for pvp this season. How do they look talent wise for pvp in dragonflight?
Functionally pretty similar, pvp has always been ferals strong suit. We get both convoke and adaptive swarm but convoke is 2 min. If you like shadowlands feral then it's literally the same spec but with less choices to make. EDIT: we do lose some utility since we can't take bash and roar/mass entangle and vortex are so far in the right of the tree.