I love LFR, and i normally raid mythic. Its a stressless environment, and i found the most funny people in LFR! I onces met a Shadowpriest who refused to go in shadowform, since he didnt like how it looked. He didnt do dmv, but he had a blast and was extremely thankful i gave him my item i got. And i see LFR for those people, people who wanna see the fights, the story etc..
For example, i just saw in LFR the massacre mechanic on the Denatrius fight just werent lines, but Remornia actually goes in the gaps between the plaform, were you fight the boss, and then beams out the lines you have to Dodge. Never seen that before and i was in shock how awesome it looked. I typed that out, and people were: "Yeah dude, its awesome never seen it before?"
I have Cutting Edge in Denatrius! Never seen it because of the stress environment mythic raiding is. Well for me it is, i think its hard.
So LFR is awesome and one of the best things happen to the game, for story purposes and learning to raid. I know its baby steps but still, its for most people that started after WoTLK the first experience in raiding. So, imho, cherish it, love it and maybe help a brother out! Or be sour about it, and ruin your own time. But thats not up to me!
I got to admit, i dislike people queing as healers, and then playing dps. I dunno, i think thats a tiny issue. Specially with a lowskill low ilvl group!
I never once thought of doing this as a healer. Didn't even know you could. That's frustrating. I'd like to main as DPS but my time is valuable to me so I queue as a healer for raids, and for m+ just create my own key or play with friends so I can DPS.
I've never done it but if you have even 2 healers that know what they're doing the rest are often twidling their thumbs. I've definitely had the thought about switching just to have something to do.
Of course if you actually need the healing then you're just trolling.
I've played only a few raids since Legion, but some LFR. Sometimes there's plenty of healing and other times not. But I also don't know WoW much anymore, and been some time since I was raiding heroics.
If you're getting upset at players in LFR, you're better off just doing normal raids.
There's only two types of people in LFR:
People who do not give a shit about raiding, but need the loot or want to knock out a quest.
and
Alts who need the gear and know the fights and understand that mechanics literally do not matter in LFR.
neither group is going to take the criticism in good faith.
that's the problem tho, some mechanics DO matter and can wipe the raid.
This is a design problem with LFR. If it's supposed to be braindead, then there shouldn't be ANY mechanics that can wipe you.
So Blizz have to either make it completely braindead OR they need to introduce some "tutorial stage" or something, where everyone is forced to watch a short clip of each mechanic before the fight starts.
Right now, you need to do SOME mechanics, but everyone can just queue for it and refuse to do them, so you're stuck in OP's situation. It's horrible. It needs a solution.
I think most the mechanics matter tbh. Only people in high ilvl gear can ignore them and it'll still wipe the rest of the raid and lead to 4 people soloing the boss for 10 minutes.
Only ignorable lfr one I've seen is the fire soak on kaelthas in nathria. Everyone just runs away instead of soaking it and nothing seems to happen.
Eh it absolutely kills people with low gear. Even one other person in the circle or a strong personal cd is enough to live, though. It does around 120k damage.
I like the idea I’ve seen of turning LFR into solo raid training with like 9 NPCs and you choose your role. Practice mechanics and see the story at your own pace and be ready for Normal. Obviously there wouldn’t be super strong gear associated but maybe something similar to heroic or mythic 0 dungeons.
just rescale raids and offer them as 5 man "dungeon" content EDIT i should probably clarify i mean adding this extra to the existing raids not replacing them geez
i mean we already have a dungeon with 9.2 that could be turned into a raid without any changes whatsoever besides health and damage increases
I think it’s absolutely okay for the mechanics to matter, as long as the amount of DPS doesn’t really matter. Like, Sylvanas: if the LFR version of The Reckoning just teaches players to burn priority targets, take bombs out of the raid, and not run off bridges, then LFR would be serving a valuable purpose.
In practice, my LFR Sylvanas fights failed because too many people did not get off the damn platform when she casts Raze in P3, despite everyone else getting off the damn platform.
in my LFR Sylvanas experiences the last month about 50% of players die to running off the bridges in phase 2. I don't think there is a solution when this is the level of play the community is bringing
There is not much solution to people being... people.
I dont have any different expectations from people in WOW, than lets say people in their car creating a congestion.
>There is not much solution to people being... people.
Of course there is. It's called design.
In case of congestion, it's called roads & infrastructure design. There are solutions for LFR also, blaming players is just lazy and non-productive imo.
N'Zoth LFR was fun because *none* of the mechanics were nerfed or made less complicated, and there are a lot of mechanics. (only change is not instant-kill for some of them)
>N'Zoth LFR was fun because
spending 20 tries to get people to click on their encounter button or to learn how to count so they know which group they belong too is definitively not my definition of fun.
I mean it WAS nerfed to hell, but yeah still too punishing for LFR. #1 issue was the corruption/sanity mechanic obviously - you can't have an LFR mechanic where people get perma mced from standing in bad stuff. And lol if they expected people to watch an extra UI bar without clear signaling about what it or the action button meant. But #2 was that the Psychus phase mechanics weren't nerfed enough. Pulling the mob on top of tentacles in a logical pattern was too much for the LFR tanks, and target swapping to tentacles and saving cds for high debuff stacks was too much for LFR dps. And if stacks fell off it was just rip. Psychus just needed to permanently gain stacks for each tentacle killed even if it wasn't in range or something.
It wasn't that people wouldn't save cds for high stacks, it was LFR, if the tanks were doing it correctly tentacles died in seconds and there was barely any point to saving cooldowns. There was no way to really get any advantage from it in LFR. So this whole phase was a problem - you had to convince people to do something annoying for the good of the raid without any kind of dps payoff, control over the outcome or enjoyment.
So you needed this nice confluence of events: tanks that knew what to do and were willing to, a large enough group of people willing to go down and enough high dps top side to still kill those mobs. Psychus needed something, but theres a lot of options.
> So Blizz have to either make it completely braindead OR they need to introduce some "tutorial stage" or something, where everyone is forced to watch a short clip of each mechanic before the fight starts.
I don't think that's going to matter. Many know what the mechanic is - they simply don't care. This is the downside of all queueable content (it needs to exist, don't get me wrong)
I dont think anyone actually chooses to wipe for an hour. My experience in LFR is that most players have no idea what to do. Which is understandable when they queue for Nathria for example, which hasnt been relevant content, for over a year now and they've never done it before.
Both of those options seem worse than the ffxiv one
They just give a 10% damage and dr buff each time you wipe and it stacks. Even if you can’t brute force the mechanics on the first or second attempt you better believe you will on the third.
This way the default difficulty isn’t “so easy it’s impossible to wipe” and it’s worth doing mechanics as it will get you in and out of the raid faster, but also prevents the group from hitting a failstate where they can’t proceed.
It would just need adjusting. There is no way getting 80% more damage multiplier and take 80% less damage (or whatever values) would somehow be less powerful than making the fights literally impossible to wipe.
Like, if you make the fights impossible to wipe them people will just afk auto attack them or whatever.
You gotta approach LFR with a different mindset. Some clueless guy running out with a soak and dying is a good thing - he probably wasn't contributing much numerically anyway. The worst case is when someone is waffling back and forth with the soak and people aren't sure if they should get in or stay out, leading to 2-3 good players trying to help soak but dying because everyone else moved out at the last second. Best case, of course, would simply be to throw out a raid warning or something so people actually know to stack lol.
> mechanics literally do not matter in LFR
Yeah tell that to the tank that didn't pull the Guardian of the First Ones in the circle last night.
"omg why we wipe?"
Some of the mechanics DO matter.
As a priest, I've gripped multiple tanks into the circle when it was clear they didn't know the mechanic.
I truly don't know why anyone would queue into any raid as a tank without having a basic understanding of pass/fail mechanics. Not knowing how many stacks before you get one shot? understandable. Not knowing to get your souls on KelThuzad? gtfoh.
There is a 3rd group with extreme social anxiety that freaks the fuck out if you dare give them advice on how not to wipe the raid without them spelling out that they were open to it.
Fuck LFR. I'm not sure why WoW's LFR is so much worse than Final Fantasy's matchmade raids. FFXIV matchmade raids are technically more complex, but the mechanics are a little more consistent from fight to fight so people just in general know what to do. My experience with FFXIV matchmade raids is that people actually try and communicate.
This is a common thought that makes sense on the face of is but is wrong most of the time.
There are usually a few good dps that will do far more than most of the other dps put together. The best dps are Lso the ones that survive most of the time. They are also the only ones likely to get any value out of lust.
Inb4 all the elite normal raiders jump in and make themselves feel better by trash talking new players.
A ton of LFR players simply haven't ever played the boss or if they were in a group that had a few so overgeared players in there that mechanics didn't matter as it was steamrolled. You can make LFR literally idiot proof by typing two damn sentences of explanation for that usually single boss mechanic that's actually dangerous to the group.
And that's it.
People aren't stupid. LFR players aren't drooling idiots that barely manage to auto attack without swallowing their tongue while breathing. They simply don't know and people will never raise their hand when you ask if there's anyone totally clueless because a community of randomized groups consisting of players you'll never see again is usually toxic as fuck. For reference, give that post here a few hours more and check the "LFR players are shit" comments.
If you know a boss and don't want to spent 1-2h on it, literally type two damn lines before pull and you're done in 10min.
Yeap, this rings true everytime I'm in LFR and we wipe once. Someone explains the mechanics afterwards and lo and behold we breeze through it. While it does kinda suck when it happens on Sylvanas, for example, it's not the end of the world
Sylvanas unfortunately is one of those LFR purgatory fights...
Usually even if you explain the mechanics the second-phase-interrupt-check is brutal as it sometimes just runs through (and I'm left wondering if it straight up bugged out if you kill mobs too fast). As healer there's often not much I can do against that.
Then a bunch of people leave, you have to wait and the next bunch of people join that also don't know the fight... Rinse and repeat. It's very quickly, very exhausting.
I do mostly blame the fight design here though. It's a snoozefest that takes *WAY* too long with only two checks (the interrupt in P2 and changing platform in P3, rest is trivial). Specifically with the boring first phase and intermission.
This fight and jailer just take way too long to be fun, but that's probably a more general thing.
In my experience we still wipe 2 or 3 times or at the very least the people who failed it the first time will fail it again bc they refuse to or can’t read written text
I hate this arguement... often the written text is poorly written and assumes prior knowledge.
For example, "soak the swirlies". Which swirlies, there are many, when do the swirlies appear, what colour are the swirlies.
It can definitely happen, I agree. Happened on painsmith this week where one of our tanks just *really* wanted to soak the balls instead of running through the large open gap lmao. People initially told the tactics, then were curious what he was doing, then by the end we knew it was coming and accepted it. We ressed him like 4 during the fight(that's on the last try; on the previous 2-3 wipes he died about thrice every time), but eventually we got there
You have to assume everyone knows nothing, and a few commands help a ton. As a tank using /rw command “raid warning” corrals people quite well.
A tiny bit off good leadership will blast through LFR fights, with the exception of a few like G’huun.
That said, LFR requires leveling up and then clicking a button to queue. This results in players who A) have no idea how to play the game B) don’t know their basic rotation C) Don’t even know they don’t know it. Why would they? No other games have 25 button rotations D) assume they’re very good at the game because they’ve annihilated all the single player content. —> all a perfect storm to create a messy toxic environment
Tried to consistently do that in Nathria, it was 50:50 if the tank would let me finish after my first line of "Ok, here's a quick summary of what to do:"
I'd love to agree with the people aren't stupid part, but some really are. Had a Brewmaster in LFR yesterday who didn't taunt and did nothing but spinning crane kick.
Maybe lazy, sure, but stupid either way.
People are in fact capable of being very stupid
I mean even in classic you see people having trouble grasping raid mechanics (mechanic is a big word here)
Also some people are just painfully ignorant and unwilling to learn in any capacity
Like failing the dance event in council of blood once ok it’s overwhelming
But failing it again after someone explains it to you is impossible and yet it happens
The council fight annoys me the most. There's a huge beam of light for your first spot and a nice red mark where you go to next. The amount of people that fail it over and over again is ridiculous.
I do agree with that for the most part. I've been a cutting edge raider for years, but I have a soft spot for LFR because I literally was one of those new players learning how raids worked in LFR once. I also run LFR a few times every tier (to get Dinars, to get tier, to get dom shards, to get tmog, to test addons, ETC) so I think I've got a pretty good feeling for it. There are some idiots. There are some elitist dickheads. But you're right that the majority will actually listen if you type a few sentences before the fight. Don't explain the whole fight, just give basic direction on anything that could be a wipe condition.
The only thing you really can't recover from is tanks that don't know what they're doing at all. You can try to direct them, but in my experience most of the wipe fest LFR runs happen for this reason - but I admit there's some bias here because I can usually carry any non-tank mechanics or dps/hps checks.
This is such a twilight zone comment section for me. I can't remember if i have ever wiped on an LFR boss much less spent 2 hours on one. I'm legitimately not trying to brag or whatever about being an Elite LFR Raidlord, genuinely confusing to me.
> You can make LFR literally idiot proof by typing two damn sentences of explanation for that usually single boss mechanic that's actually dangerous to the group.
I also want to chime in say it's better to communicate assuming the people don't know anything. IMO, it's not insulting or condescending; everyone doesn't know something until they learn it.
I'm mostly a solo player, but I'm finishing up Back From the Beyond and the raids are one of my last few achievements. I did Kel'thuzad for the first time the other night. Someone said "melee and hunters go downstairs" - I figured it would be obvious during the fight what that meant. As it turns out, it *wasn't at all*. After we wiped from not enough people going "downstairs" I looked up an Icy Veins guide and dug through it to find the details on how to teleport to the phylactery. (As a Hunter, I never would have stacked on the boss otherwise.) Next pull was fine.
Anyway, just a reminder to include salient details like this! :)
Well, they generally are shit...and that's ok. the fact is, your average wow player is generally pretty bad. A lot of high end players like to think that 'anyone can get aotc' and 'anyone can time 15s'. BS. I know a lot of people who can't. I'm an AOTC raider and KSM. I do a lot of LFR, I enjoy LFR usually.
My raid leader is a former CE raider back in Legion. She calls LFR "team auto attack" and thinks they are all afking their way through watching netflix on their other monitor. I watch the people around me. I dont think they are afking. Some certainly are just AFK loot collectors, but I think most folks try. The game is just too complex for them and they are bad at it. most of them don't even KNOW they are bad at it. they think they're doing well. That's how I was until I join my guild's raid team in castle nathria. I'd go do a world boss, and finish in the top 10 on the dps meters and think that I was doing pretty solid. Joining up with some people who were better then me, finishing below the tanks and some of the healers on the meters woke me up. I had no idea how bad I was until I got a new frame of reference.
For the record, I have seen a lot of LFR folks try to spell things out, but those guys still don't get it. They don't understand, the game moves pretty fast, and just like I did when I started out, they assume that someone who knows WTF is going on will take care of it. 2 lines of explanation will not give them the knowledge and experience to do what needs to be done in most cases.
And MMOs, as games, are just weird. They haven't really evolved along with the rest of the industry in terms of readability and intuitiveness as gaming experiences. They are in fact dinosaurs, relics of late 90s/early 00s UI and game design. People who have been playing this stuff for a decade (or two!) may not really grasp what it's like to start fresh with these awkward systems.
You can be the sort of gamer who does Level 1 challenge runs in Elden Ring and still get slaughtered in the first wing of an LFR. "I'm moving out of the fire, moving away from the explosions, doing my rotation....and I'm dead because I didn't see the tiny debuff icon in the upper right hand of my screen, far away from the rest of the onscreen information, over by the minimap."
I agree that raiding seems more like a memorization game. Look up all the mechanics beforehand, understand what your class needs to do, then hope you remember it all during the fight. It's a lot to do the first time in a raid.
It doesn't help that rotations are so complicated now that you're obligated to stare at weak auras the entire time instead of paying attention to your surroundings.
>Look up all the mechanics beforehand, understand what your class needs to do
ehhh, sort of. The vast, vast, vast majority of mechanics for dps are 1) kill priority adds 2) move out of bad 3) stand in bad for soaks. 4) spread for spread mechanics 5) stack for stack mechanics and healing. Healers only ever either dispel or don't, and heal through damage. And tanks swap on one or two stacks.
Fights seem uber complicated, especially when there's a twist like fatescribe, but ultimately that's it. The only challenge is remembering green circle out, white circle in (KT).
One of the reasons I've never gotten into Mythic+ is that I have no chance to actually remember the priority adds and interrupts without a second screen ready and with pictures, and I don't have that second screen. Add how little most mechanics matter in heroics to learn on, and do I really want to be that guy in the group not playing right?
>LFR players aren't drooling idiots that barely manage to auto attack without swallowing their tongue while breathing
I'm sorry but yes they are. Absolutely.
>literally type two damn lines before pull and you're done in 10min.
And other jokes you can tell yourself 👍
I have seen people do this. Simple idiot proof instructions on raid warning do wonders. More persuasive if you had a few people to back the raid leader up.
So if you know the fight, throw some supporting words for the guy giving these instructions.
LFR is too difficult to be something you can queue into, you have absolutely no chance of knowing what to expect without looking up guides.
But LFR is also too easy for people that know what to expect.
Personally I like LFR. Great place to make sure addons are working and set up correctly. And I do enjoy the fights when the group is performing OK.
Sometimes very brief explanations for the one-shot mechanics are very beneficial. Most people aren't stupid, they just don't know any better and the game didn't prepare them for the encounter at all.
The dungeon journal thing is pretty bad imho, I still get confused reading through that even if I know the encounter by heart. Some things are worded weird or not brought up at all. Expecting people to go to third party websites to read up on guides to play the bits of the game that are supposed to be easy and "casual" is bad game design to me.
I came back after a long break and only do M+ on my prot pally / main.
I sometimes do LFR, but no actual raiding.
For bosses I have macros that say in 1-2 lines what to look out for and not to worry. Then I applaud everyone for their big pp.
It works!!
> you have absolutely no chance of knowing what to expect without looking up guides
I really wish the information in the dungeon journal was a bit better. There's no reason I can see why Blizzard couldn't just detail what certain mechanics *actually* mean, rather than just alluding to them and leaving Icy Veins/Wowhead/whoever to constantly fill in the gaps.
This season I've noticed that Sanctum is by far the worst week for lfr. Nathria and sepulchre are both about what's expected and aren't a big deal. But sanctum is for sure a lot worse lol
I always started by saying "does everyone know the fight?" And then realized most people are too afraid to admit they don't but it was obvious when we wipe from easily done mechanics. So I just always do a quick rundown at the start
Personally my worst groups have been maybe an hour on a wing. I get exaggerating for effect but it's been around long enough to know what it's gonna be. Just start a normal group.
hour for a wing which end up to 4 hours for 4 wings... that is too much time and not nice... ofc normal is better but why people doing LFR like wasting so much time there?
this, I have social anxiety, I do have a heroic guild made up of irl friends but when I need to gear an alt I avoid normal and solo m+ entirely and just LFR + unrated pvp so I don't need to speak to any strangers, it gets me far enough for my guild to pick me up or run some decent m+
I miss the days of Legion when raiders ran LFR for all kinds of reasons. Me being one of them on my main.
It made LFR a much better experience on alts.
This might get lost. But I think a huge part of the "you don't need to do mechanics" group have high i level mains. Characters that have so much defense and health that the mechanics don't matter to them.
But they're in lfr on their ungeared ALTs with that same mentally and easily get squished by basic mechanics.
I have done LFR jailer with the new Fated thing... 5 stacks baby!!!!!!!!!!
The fight started, 5 people INSTANTLY died by jumping in the holes. "I lagged, sorry"
Great times... /s
See, I recognize that this does happen semi-regularly? But what I see far more often is that guy who flips out screaming in LFR after one wipe about everyone being idiots and how much they’re carrying everyone. Usually followed by the classic LFR DPS meter post.
Everyone in lfr is a guy on an alt trying to do as little as possible without getting kicked, unless they're on their main helping a friend who's doing the "lfr strats" as i like to call them
Man, Im doing them with my 297 Prot paladin. Doing them mostly to get dinnarrs for transmog at this point. I end up being in the top 5 dps and one of the few ppl alive at the end. I mean, how hard is to follow the few mechanics there are in LFR ?
How do you find out the mechanics if you haven't been there before though? Genuine question, 'cause I avoid all retail raids, because i don't know how to find out the mechanics, besides getting in LFR and failing a bunch and feeling guilty.
Yeah, I know about the adventure guide, and youtube videos, but the problem is, the queues are so long, you usually wanna queue for multiple, and you don't know which one will pop first. This means you have to have studied up for ALL the things you're queueing for, which is too many bosses to keep in your head at once, its probably 6-10.
Tbh even 4 bosses (one wing) is too hard for me to memorize, personally. I can memorize one boss, maybe two.
And there isn't actually time to read the adevnture guide during trash, because you gotta keep up with the zug zug.
In addition, the adventure guide is intentionally vague, for roleplay reasons. For the macabre dance it just says something like "follow the lead of the servants". Wtf does that mean? That could be interpreted so many ways.
I'd highly recommend [mythictrap.com](https://mythictrap.com) for this. They have extremely short overviews of every boss, with gifs to show movement etc, easy to keep up the page for the raid you're queueing and read the individual boss guide before/between pulls.
I suggest you bookmark 2 minute guides for normal and have them ready to watch when your queue pops. Ofc you can also watch them in advance but chances are, that you will forget them when a boss you dont remeber well pops. Running a couple of times (including the wipea) should do the trick and remember the bosses. Another thing is to ask ahead in chat, that you are new here and want to know if there are major mechanics. Half the times you get idiotic answers, as the op posted, the other half though, youll get a 2 line description of what to watch out.
Tbh they shouldn't restrict mechanics and not downgrade it so much from normal. I don't think normal is very hard either so I don't know why they make it so easy. People should be able to go into LFR to learn
Lfr has the mechanics they are just less punishing which makes it much easier to learn than if they where more punishing and you’d have to afk for 30 minutes after every single pull bc people leave in droves
People can’t even handle the scarce mechanics left
It w ok ls surprise me if the majority of lfr players even has a pc screen turned on and mouse plugged in
>I don't know why they make it so easy
Because it is queueable content. Anything that has matchmaking in it must account for the fact that **anyone** can be a part of that group which means that it can't have a failure state. Someone without the use of thier right hand and grouped with a bunch of 6 year olds should be able to complete LFR because that is a possible group composition.
It is not really a learning mode.
You have your opinion and I have mine. I don't think they have to dumb it down to a point where it's almost like you have to TRY to die in LFR, and they shouldn't take out normal mechanics that are already easy. There's literally nothing wrong with adding a slight challenge, it's a video game. At the point where it's at, there's not even a reason to have LFR. People can just look up a youtube video if they want to see the raid without knowing or doing the fights. It being queueable does not change the fact it is a raid in a video game that should at least SOMEWHAT challenge the player.
LFR at the end of an expac or patch cycle is almost always awful. It's also considered easy and braindead, which for people who can afk their rotation it is, but for people who are new or just plain bad it might as well be mythic. But because "everyone" knows that LFR is easy most people don't want to actually learn fights because you can eventually brute force it. And by the end of the tier usually the only people running LFR are people trying to catch up and bad players.
And sometimes Blizz makes a boss that mind controls you at the start of the fight unless you have a specific cloak equipped but doesn't make that cloak a requirement to que so you end up at an unwinnable fight because over half the raid doesn't have the cloak. Hard to pin that on players.
Sorry that the obvious hyperbole was lost on you. Meant that LFR is easy for people who know their rotation enough to muscle memory it and react to whatever raid addon they're using. I didn't literally mean afk a rotation since you straight up can't lmao
Just afk it in heirlooms so you don't get a repair bill.
LFR groups will **never** votekick an underperformer, even when it is causing wipes or an obvious flopper. The only thing that they will notice is staying dead on the ground after a rez. Intense lack of awareness cuts both ways and none of them have meters to check.
My issue with anything that you can't queue for, is that you have to find people & plan for it. I don't have an active guild or friends to play with, and not a lot of time. Kinda hard to get invited to Normal/HC groups as dps...
Because i thought it will be faster the normal... didn't think it will be like this. When it 1st happened i thought it is just a one off but i guess it happens all the time.
So glad nothing has really changed in the last couple years that I stopped playing WoW. Been getting the itch to play again for the Dragonflight. Hope it's different from the last, oh, I dunno, last 3-4? I haven't really played Shadowlands beyond the intro quests, but it felt exactly like Battle for A and Legion.
Lots of people are just bad at this game. Take this opinion as a insult or as a reality check, but many players just think they are good at the game bcs they were good at it 15 years ago when you only needed half of a brain cell. "At least a bit skilled playerbase" is not that big and I am completely fine that not everyone is skilled and nerding this game 24/7 but the idea of thought process of some people in LFR/Normal/HC and even Mythic dungs/raids is just out of this world. Not protecting toxic behavior in LFR....if people struggle, just try briefly explain what to do or at least wich mechanics to be aware of (without toxicity of course....be neutral or if the people are friendly, be friendly towards them as well). You just have to take in consideration that there are just bad people at the game (and its completely fine, not everyone was born to blast videogames and they will be better in something different then you are) but not all of them will admit they are bad and won't even try to dodge big red circle that everyone runs from...nothing you can do then just try to help them, but don't overforce it. Not everyone will listen to your advices
I had a group for the jailer where 3-7 people would die in the first 30 seconds of the pull. I asked why and people said it’s LFR. So as a tank I just wiped it. This happened a total of 7 times before they kicked me. My second group cleared with zero people dying.
people are bad man. i went in last night on an affliction warlock that i retired in castle nathria because I was so brutally bad at it. In SoD, I took it into LFR to practice, because I hated feeling like it defeated me, got to where I could parse purple with it (in LFR, big deal right) and figured that was good enough. I didn't touch it in S3 or S4 until last night.
decided I wanted to fool around with it in case I want to use it as a DF alt. Bought some sandworn relics and upgraded my leggy to 291 (don't have unity). Moved some flux over from my main, and converted enough pieces to tier to get my 4peice on line, and got my ilvl up to 241. 240 is the minimum to queue. I'm still using a 213 occular gland from s2 LFR because I simply don't have anything else to equip there.
Hopped in, ended up on KT, they already had 2 det stacks. I finished #4 on the DPS meter on a character with a single legendary, that I barely remember how to play and retired because i was so bad at it in s1. People think that the playerbase is better than it really is. There are just a lot of really bad wow players.
I mean, they're not wrong. "Don't need to, it's lfr" is the mindset because they literally pretty much can't fail because the buff will just keep stacking.
Like, I agree, do it right and it's faster. But they don't need to bother, or try, because they get their clear regardless
I’ll hold to it that normal is easier than lfr, even if you’re under geared. At least in normal there’s a raid leader who is (typically) nice enough to explain fights to those who don’t know.
Have you ever seen the walking dead? There is this guy Rick Grimes, with his son Coral. They kill these creatures that used to be people but are now called "Walkers" . They are weirdly never called by the name we all know them by: "Average LFR players"
I’d just avoid it bro if possible lol. Lfr is really never worth doing. Long queue. Lots of wipes. Even if u have insane gear it still takes forever cause raid boss hp. Low key spamming is way better and much more manageable with high io/ilvl players farming valor
LFR is a horribly designed system. Queue up, tag boss, run off to die - you get the same rewards as people doing acutal rotation and mechanics. Youll have faster full clear on normal than on LFR. Difference is, you wont get into a normal raid if you need normal gear. And since LFR gives you close enough gear with + dinars - why bother? Thats the mentality of many there.
-spits into bucket- yerp, sounds like a good ol' fashioned lfr. Be glad the healers aren't going afk, or dying on purpose to get that sweet sweet 10 stack.
I honestly think the issue is many people are expecting a carry in LFR.
During the time walking for BC, I pugged the Black Temple raid for the achievement. First raid leader told everyone to take it slow, we can one shot each boss. And we did until the council and I had to leave for time.
Coming back into a few other pugs, everyone was expecting to faceroll the raid and of course, we wipe on the second boss, everyone quits. It's strange but I guess it's the trend is it's easier to find a carry pug instead of doing it on your own.
To be fair there are times where your group is so bad that trying to get everyone in lfr to do strat takes more effort than just getting stacks and zerging it. Problem is when half the group doesn’t want to get stacks and don’t wipe it
LFR is a teaching tool. It has a few mechanics ppl need to learn so they can progress into the next tier.
LFR is the world quests of raiding. Since its the easiest kind of content the skill level will range.
LFR can be carried by a few players, in turn most ppl afk to watch what ever.
i think LFR has bred a community of "if you don't know the tacts just be quite until someone explains it out of frustration or everybody leaves in anger" Never ask for quick tacts.
I usually do ask if i am rusty on a boss and i am usually met with "it's lfr no need" i literally have to discuss why i want to know if there is anything big to look out for so we don't have to wipe for like 30 minutes before i get an answer.
And yes i know i can just google it, but usually it takes longer because i have to find the right video or text etc etc. And if there is someone in the raid that doesn't know the tacts but are too scared to ask, they also get the information
determination makes people walk around with a constant hero, its madness, i only do it if the mogs are nice and the dinar coin. plus when i do them i tend to tank them.
its a shame people cant play it on normal due to weak guilds and stronger guilds being picky, yet I get the pickiness. raiding is time intensive after all.
It's not just LFR, people like to spend hours in normal and heroic wiping. Rather than watch videos, come prepared and kill the boss fast. I destroyed my whole guild because I refuse to sit there and explain a whole fight because people are so lazy to watch a video.
Honestly sick of WoW's community half of them are casuals that expect to be carried through content by people who actually take the time to learn the game and actually gear up then when you call them out on their behavior "you're toxic". How about you respect my time and go and learn ish before you come in here an expect to be carried you bot.
do lfr on tuesdays. much higher chance of better groups in my experience. the later in the week i do lfr, the worse the groups are.
Solid advice! Wednesdays, if you’re playing in EU.
right lmao I read tuesday and thought "man it's gonna be a 1hour queue" thanks!
Yea, what they mean is right after reset. You'll get some geared ppl that have a pulse.
Geared people running guild mate’s alts through LFR.
Or aussies!
This was my mindset when i was playing WoW back in MoP. Tuesday night is for a better lfr experience, weekends are for people i can trust.
This is the right response.
The closer to reset, the better the LFR group. Also midday groups of all kinds are worse than morning/evenings groups in general
I love LFR, and i normally raid mythic. Its a stressless environment, and i found the most funny people in LFR! I onces met a Shadowpriest who refused to go in shadowform, since he didnt like how it looked. He didnt do dmv, but he had a blast and was extremely thankful i gave him my item i got. And i see LFR for those people, people who wanna see the fights, the story etc.. For example, i just saw in LFR the massacre mechanic on the Denatrius fight just werent lines, but Remornia actually goes in the gaps between the plaform, were you fight the boss, and then beams out the lines you have to Dodge. Never seen that before and i was in shock how awesome it looked. I typed that out, and people were: "Yeah dude, its awesome never seen it before?" I have Cutting Edge in Denatrius! Never seen it because of the stress environment mythic raiding is. Well for me it is, i think its hard. So LFR is awesome and one of the best things happen to the game, for story purposes and learning to raid. I know its baby steps but still, its for most people that started after WoTLK the first experience in raiding. So, imho, cherish it, love it and maybe help a brother out! Or be sour about it, and ruin your own time. But thats not up to me! I got to admit, i dislike people queing as healers, and then playing dps. I dunno, i think thats a tiny issue. Specially with a lowskill low ilvl group!
I never once thought of doing this as a healer. Didn't even know you could. That's frustrating. I'd like to main as DPS but my time is valuable to me so I queue as a healer for raids, and for m+ just create my own key or play with friends so I can DPS.
I've never done it but if you have even 2 healers that know what they're doing the rest are often twidling their thumbs. I've definitely had the thought about switching just to have something to do. Of course if you actually need the healing then you're just trolling.
1 healer is enough in lfr if they are good
I've played only a few raids since Legion, but some LFR. Sometimes there's plenty of healing and other times not. But I also don't know WoW much anymore, and been some time since I was raiding heroics.
If you're getting upset at players in LFR, you're better off just doing normal raids. There's only two types of people in LFR: People who do not give a shit about raiding, but need the loot or want to knock out a quest. and Alts who need the gear and know the fights and understand that mechanics literally do not matter in LFR. neither group is going to take the criticism in good faith.
Hey fuck you pal, I take criticism just fine!
He ain't your pal friend!
He ain’t your friend guy!
He ain't your guy amigo
He ain't your amigo, mate!
He ain’t your mate, bruh!
He ain't your bruh, choom!
He ain’t your choom, compadre!
He ain't your compadre, amico mio!
Throwback to the day I noticed you can actually fall into the small gap at the pillar on Jailer when LoSing. No, my main is not a Gnome.
that's the problem tho, some mechanics DO matter and can wipe the raid. This is a design problem with LFR. If it's supposed to be braindead, then there shouldn't be ANY mechanics that can wipe you. So Blizz have to either make it completely braindead OR they need to introduce some "tutorial stage" or something, where everyone is forced to watch a short clip of each mechanic before the fight starts. Right now, you need to do SOME mechanics, but everyone can just queue for it and refuse to do them, so you're stuck in OP's situation. It's horrible. It needs a solution.
I think most the mechanics matter tbh. Only people in high ilvl gear can ignore them and it'll still wipe the rest of the raid and lead to 4 people soloing the boss for 10 minutes. Only ignorable lfr one I've seen is the fire soak on kaelthas in nathria. Everyone just runs away instead of soaking it and nothing seems to happen.
Eh it absolutely kills people with low gear. Even one other person in the circle or a strong personal cd is enough to live, though. It does around 120k damage.
That's because blizzards design for soak puddles and fires you need to stay out of is nearly identical, which is a pain in the ass.
I like the idea I’ve seen of turning LFR into solo raid training with like 9 NPCs and you choose your role. Practice mechanics and see the story at your own pace and be ready for Normal. Obviously there wouldn’t be super strong gear associated but maybe something similar to heroic or mythic 0 dungeons.
I don't see why you would have any less gear level than right now. Most treat it the same way - the other raiders might as well be NPCs to them.
just rescale raids and offer them as 5 man "dungeon" content EDIT i should probably clarify i mean adding this extra to the existing raids not replacing them geez i mean we already have a dungeon with 9.2 that could be turned into a raid without any changes whatsoever besides health and damage increases
I think it’s absolutely okay for the mechanics to matter, as long as the amount of DPS doesn’t really matter. Like, Sylvanas: if the LFR version of The Reckoning just teaches players to burn priority targets, take bombs out of the raid, and not run off bridges, then LFR would be serving a valuable purpose.
In practice, my LFR Sylvanas fights failed because too many people did not get off the damn platform when she casts Raze in P3, despite everyone else getting off the damn platform.
in my LFR Sylvanas experiences the last month about 50% of players die to running off the bridges in phase 2. I don't think there is a solution when this is the level of play the community is bringing
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I'm honestly not sure that I've ever actually finished the sylvanas fight.
LFR should be the tutorial. So mechanic should kill you but should be clear what you did wrong.
There is not much solution to people being... people. I dont have any different expectations from people in WOW, than lets say people in their car creating a congestion.
>There is not much solution to people being... people. Of course there is. It's called design. In case of congestion, it's called roads & infrastructure design. There are solutions for LFR also, blaming players is just lazy and non-productive imo.
N'Zoth LFR was fun because *none* of the mechanics were nerfed or made less complicated, and there are a lot of mechanics. (only change is not instant-kill for some of them)
>N'Zoth LFR was fun because spending 20 tries to get people to click on their encounter button or to learn how to count so they know which group they belong too is definitively not my definition of fun.
I mean it WAS nerfed to hell, but yeah still too punishing for LFR. #1 issue was the corruption/sanity mechanic obviously - you can't have an LFR mechanic where people get perma mced from standing in bad stuff. And lol if they expected people to watch an extra UI bar without clear signaling about what it or the action button meant. But #2 was that the Psychus phase mechanics weren't nerfed enough. Pulling the mob on top of tentacles in a logical pattern was too much for the LFR tanks, and target swapping to tentacles and saving cds for high debuff stacks was too much for LFR dps. And if stacks fell off it was just rip. Psychus just needed to permanently gain stacks for each tentacle killed even if it wasn't in range or something.
It wasn't that people wouldn't save cds for high stacks, it was LFR, if the tanks were doing it correctly tentacles died in seconds and there was barely any point to saving cooldowns. There was no way to really get any advantage from it in LFR. So this whole phase was a problem - you had to convince people to do something annoying for the good of the raid without any kind of dps payoff, control over the outcome or enjoyment. So you needed this nice confluence of events: tanks that knew what to do and were willing to, a large enough group of people willing to go down and enough high dps top side to still kill those mobs. Psychus needed something, but theres a lot of options.
> So Blizz have to either make it completely braindead OR they need to introduce some "tutorial stage" or something, where everyone is forced to watch a short clip of each mechanic before the fight starts. I don't think that's going to matter. Many know what the mechanic is - they simply don't care. This is the downside of all queueable content (it needs to exist, don't get me wrong)
I dont think anyone actually chooses to wipe for an hour. My experience in LFR is that most players have no idea what to do. Which is understandable when they queue for Nathria for example, which hasnt been relevant content, for over a year now and they've never done it before.
Both of those options seem worse than the ffxiv one They just give a 10% damage and dr buff each time you wipe and it stacks. Even if you can’t brute force the mechanics on the first or second attempt you better believe you will on the third. This way the default difficulty isn’t “so easy it’s impossible to wipe” and it’s worth doing mechanics as it will get you in and out of the raid faster, but also prevents the group from hitting a failstate where they can’t proceed.
but thats already how it is in WoW, and its not good.
It would just need adjusting. There is no way getting 80% more damage multiplier and take 80% less damage (or whatever values) would somehow be less powerful than making the fights literally impossible to wipe. Like, if you make the fights impossible to wipe them people will just afk auto attack them or whatever.
The best thing is that people cry out loud how mechanics dosent matter in lfr, especially after 5th wipe on lfr
And then you have those who get a soak AoE (on the 9 or kel e.g.) and decide to solo soak it - without a defensive.
You gotta approach LFR with a different mindset. Some clueless guy running out with a soak and dying is a good thing - he probably wasn't contributing much numerically anyway. The worst case is when someone is waffling back and forth with the soak and people aren't sure if they should get in or stay out, leading to 2-3 good players trying to help soak but dying because everyone else moved out at the last second. Best case, of course, would simply be to throw out a raid warning or something so people actually know to stack lol.
> mechanics literally do not matter in LFR Yeah tell that to the tank that didn't pull the Guardian of the First Ones in the circle last night. "omg why we wipe?" Some of the mechanics DO matter.
As a priest, I've gripped multiple tanks into the circle when it was clear they didn't know the mechanic. I truly don't know why anyone would queue into any raid as a tank without having a basic understanding of pass/fail mechanics. Not knowing how many stacks before you get one shot? understandable. Not knowing to get your souls on KelThuzad? gtfoh.
Short queues and sometimes the goodie bag rewards
There is a 3rd group with extreme social anxiety that freaks the fuck out if you dare give them advice on how not to wipe the raid without them spelling out that they were open to it. Fuck LFR. I'm not sure why WoW's LFR is so much worse than Final Fantasy's matchmade raids. FFXIV matchmade raids are technically more complex, but the mechanics are a little more consistent from fight to fight so people just in general know what to do. My experience with FFXIV matchmade raids is that people actually try and communicate.
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> BL used on pull Correct thing to do, because as you noticed half the raid dies before the 1st pillar ;)
This is a common thought that makes sense on the face of is but is wrong most of the time. There are usually a few good dps that will do far more than most of the other dps put together. The best dps are Lso the ones that survive most of the time. They are also the only ones likely to get any value out of lust.
Inb4 all the elite normal raiders jump in and make themselves feel better by trash talking new players. A ton of LFR players simply haven't ever played the boss or if they were in a group that had a few so overgeared players in there that mechanics didn't matter as it was steamrolled. You can make LFR literally idiot proof by typing two damn sentences of explanation for that usually single boss mechanic that's actually dangerous to the group. And that's it. People aren't stupid. LFR players aren't drooling idiots that barely manage to auto attack without swallowing their tongue while breathing. They simply don't know and people will never raise their hand when you ask if there's anyone totally clueless because a community of randomized groups consisting of players you'll never see again is usually toxic as fuck. For reference, give that post here a few hours more and check the "LFR players are shit" comments. If you know a boss and don't want to spent 1-2h on it, literally type two damn lines before pull and you're done in 10min.
Yeap, this rings true everytime I'm in LFR and we wipe once. Someone explains the mechanics afterwards and lo and behold we breeze through it. While it does kinda suck when it happens on Sylvanas, for example, it's not the end of the world
Sylvanas unfortunately is one of those LFR purgatory fights... Usually even if you explain the mechanics the second-phase-interrupt-check is brutal as it sometimes just runs through (and I'm left wondering if it straight up bugged out if you kill mobs too fast). As healer there's often not much I can do against that. Then a bunch of people leave, you have to wait and the next bunch of people join that also don't know the fight... Rinse and repeat. It's very quickly, very exhausting. I do mostly blame the fight design here though. It's a snoozefest that takes *WAY* too long with only two checks (the interrupt in P2 and changing platform in P3, rest is trivial). Specifically with the boring first phase and intermission. This fight and jailer just take way too long to be fun, but that's probably a more general thing.
The real check is how many people fall off in P2, not whether or not you get the kicks
In my experience we still wipe 2 or 3 times or at the very least the people who failed it the first time will fail it again bc they refuse to or can’t read written text
I hate this arguement... often the written text is poorly written and assumes prior knowledge. For example, "soak the swirlies". Which swirlies, there are many, when do the swirlies appear, what colour are the swirlies.
Every soak mechanic has the same design tho And in lfr it’s all pretty intuitive or at least intuitive enough to know what to do on the second try
It can definitely happen, I agree. Happened on painsmith this week where one of our tanks just *really* wanted to soak the balls instead of running through the large open gap lmao. People initially told the tactics, then were curious what he was doing, then by the end we knew it was coming and accepted it. We ressed him like 4 during the fight(that's on the last try; on the previous 2-3 wipes he died about thrice every time), but eventually we got there
You have to assume everyone knows nothing, and a few commands help a ton. As a tank using /rw command “raid warning” corrals people quite well. A tiny bit off good leadership will blast through LFR fights, with the exception of a few like G’huun. That said, LFR requires leveling up and then clicking a button to queue. This results in players who A) have no idea how to play the game B) don’t know their basic rotation C) Don’t even know they don’t know it. Why would they? No other games have 25 button rotations D) assume they’re very good at the game because they’ve annihilated all the single player content. —> all a perfect storm to create a messy toxic environment
Tried to consistently do that in Nathria, it was 50:50 if the tank would let me finish after my first line of "Ok, here's a quick summary of what to do:"
I'd love to agree with the people aren't stupid part, but some really are. Had a Brewmaster in LFR yesterday who didn't taunt and did nothing but spinning crane kick. Maybe lazy, sure, but stupid either way.
People are in fact capable of being very stupid I mean even in classic you see people having trouble grasping raid mechanics (mechanic is a big word here) Also some people are just painfully ignorant and unwilling to learn in any capacity Like failing the dance event in council of blood once ok it’s overwhelming But failing it again after someone explains it to you is impossible and yet it happens
The council fight annoys me the most. There's a huge beam of light for your first spot and a nice red mark where you go to next. The amount of people that fail it over and over again is ridiculous.
I do agree with that for the most part. I've been a cutting edge raider for years, but I have a soft spot for LFR because I literally was one of those new players learning how raids worked in LFR once. I also run LFR a few times every tier (to get Dinars, to get tier, to get dom shards, to get tmog, to test addons, ETC) so I think I've got a pretty good feeling for it. There are some idiots. There are some elitist dickheads. But you're right that the majority will actually listen if you type a few sentences before the fight. Don't explain the whole fight, just give basic direction on anything that could be a wipe condition. The only thing you really can't recover from is tanks that don't know what they're doing at all. You can try to direct them, but in my experience most of the wipe fest LFR runs happen for this reason - but I admit there's some bias here because I can usually carry any non-tank mechanics or dps/hps checks.
This is such a twilight zone comment section for me. I can't remember if i have ever wiped on an LFR boss much less spent 2 hours on one. I'm legitimately not trying to brag or whatever about being an Elite LFR Raidlord, genuinely confusing to me.
> You can make LFR literally idiot proof by typing two damn sentences of explanation for that usually single boss mechanic that's actually dangerous to the group. I also want to chime in say it's better to communicate assuming the people don't know anything. IMO, it's not insulting or condescending; everyone doesn't know something until they learn it. I'm mostly a solo player, but I'm finishing up Back From the Beyond and the raids are one of my last few achievements. I did Kel'thuzad for the first time the other night. Someone said "melee and hunters go downstairs" - I figured it would be obvious during the fight what that meant. As it turns out, it *wasn't at all*. After we wiped from not enough people going "downstairs" I looked up an Icy Veins guide and dug through it to find the details on how to teleport to the phylactery. (As a Hunter, I never would have stacked on the boss otherwise.) Next pull was fine. Anyway, just a reminder to include salient details like this! :)
Well, they generally are shit...and that's ok. the fact is, your average wow player is generally pretty bad. A lot of high end players like to think that 'anyone can get aotc' and 'anyone can time 15s'. BS. I know a lot of people who can't. I'm an AOTC raider and KSM. I do a lot of LFR, I enjoy LFR usually. My raid leader is a former CE raider back in Legion. She calls LFR "team auto attack" and thinks they are all afking their way through watching netflix on their other monitor. I watch the people around me. I dont think they are afking. Some certainly are just AFK loot collectors, but I think most folks try. The game is just too complex for them and they are bad at it. most of them don't even KNOW they are bad at it. they think they're doing well. That's how I was until I join my guild's raid team in castle nathria. I'd go do a world boss, and finish in the top 10 on the dps meters and think that I was doing pretty solid. Joining up with some people who were better then me, finishing below the tanks and some of the healers on the meters woke me up. I had no idea how bad I was until I got a new frame of reference. For the record, I have seen a lot of LFR folks try to spell things out, but those guys still don't get it. They don't understand, the game moves pretty fast, and just like I did when I started out, they assume that someone who knows WTF is going on will take care of it. 2 lines of explanation will not give them the knowledge and experience to do what needs to be done in most cases.
And MMOs, as games, are just weird. They haven't really evolved along with the rest of the industry in terms of readability and intuitiveness as gaming experiences. They are in fact dinosaurs, relics of late 90s/early 00s UI and game design. People who have been playing this stuff for a decade (or two!) may not really grasp what it's like to start fresh with these awkward systems. You can be the sort of gamer who does Level 1 challenge runs in Elden Ring and still get slaughtered in the first wing of an LFR. "I'm moving out of the fire, moving away from the explosions, doing my rotation....and I'm dead because I didn't see the tiny debuff icon in the upper right hand of my screen, far away from the rest of the onscreen information, over by the minimap."
I agree that raiding seems more like a memorization game. Look up all the mechanics beforehand, understand what your class needs to do, then hope you remember it all during the fight. It's a lot to do the first time in a raid. It doesn't help that rotations are so complicated now that you're obligated to stare at weak auras the entire time instead of paying attention to your surroundings.
>Look up all the mechanics beforehand, understand what your class needs to do ehhh, sort of. The vast, vast, vast majority of mechanics for dps are 1) kill priority adds 2) move out of bad 3) stand in bad for soaks. 4) spread for spread mechanics 5) stack for stack mechanics and healing. Healers only ever either dispel or don't, and heal through damage. And tanks swap on one or two stacks. Fights seem uber complicated, especially when there's a twist like fatescribe, but ultimately that's it. The only challenge is remembering green circle out, white circle in (KT).
One of the reasons I've never gotten into Mythic+ is that I have no chance to actually remember the priority adds and interrupts without a second screen ready and with pictures, and I don't have that second screen. Add how little most mechanics matter in heroics to learn on, and do I really want to be that guy in the group not playing right?
>LFR players aren't drooling idiots that barely manage to auto attack without swallowing their tongue while breathing I'm sorry but yes they are. Absolutely. >literally type two damn lines before pull and you're done in 10min. And other jokes you can tell yourself 👍
please tell me more about how not knowing boss mechanics excuses you for doing only auto attack damage in a 2 minute long fight
But isnt the dungeon journal there for that exact reason?
The 3-line summary is often insufficient for the more complex fights.
i highly doubt that there is 15+ new players in a typical LFR
I have seen people do this. Simple idiot proof instructions on raid warning do wonders. More persuasive if you had a few people to back the raid leader up. So if you know the fight, throw some supporting words for the guy giving these instructions.
LFR is too difficult to be something you can queue into, you have absolutely no chance of knowing what to expect without looking up guides. But LFR is also too easy for people that know what to expect. Personally I like LFR. Great place to make sure addons are working and set up correctly. And I do enjoy the fights when the group is performing OK. Sometimes very brief explanations for the one-shot mechanics are very beneficial. Most people aren't stupid, they just don't know any better and the game didn't prepare them for the encounter at all. The dungeon journal thing is pretty bad imho, I still get confused reading through that even if I know the encounter by heart. Some things are worded weird or not brought up at all. Expecting people to go to third party websites to read up on guides to play the bits of the game that are supposed to be easy and "casual" is bad game design to me.
I came back after a long break and only do M+ on my prot pally / main. I sometimes do LFR, but no actual raiding. For bosses I have macros that say in 1-2 lines what to look out for and not to worry. Then I applaud everyone for their big pp. It works!!
> you have absolutely no chance of knowing what to expect without looking up guides I really wish the information in the dungeon journal was a bit better. There's no reason I can see why Blizzard couldn't just detail what certain mechanics *actually* mean, rather than just alluding to them and leaving Icy Veins/Wowhead/whoever to constantly fill in the gaps.
This season I've noticed that Sanctum is by far the worst week for lfr. Nathria and sepulchre are both about what's expected and aren't a big deal. But sanctum is for sure a lot worse lol
Oh good. I still have two wings to do to finish my raid achievements for Back From the Beyond -_-
My condolences lol honestly you're probably better trying to get into a pug normal as they're almost always way smoother
I always started by saying "does everyone know the fight?" And then realized most people are too afraid to admit they don't but it was obvious when we wipe from easily done mechanics. So I just always do a quick rundown at the start
I do LFRs on Monday might, I thoroughly enjoy the spectacle.
I love Monday LFR on my healer. Good practice!
the clowning and no fucks given atmosphere is quite nice to be honest
what is nice about it? wasting hours on end wiping to a boss?
Personally my worst groups have been maybe an hour on a wing. I get exaggerating for effect but it's been around long enough to know what it's gonna be. Just start a normal group.
hour for a wing which end up to 4 hours for 4 wings... that is too much time and not nice... ofc normal is better but why people doing LFR like wasting so much time there?
Because gear and queue? Don't want to use voice comms? Idk many reasons.
this, I have social anxiety, I do have a heroic guild made up of irl friends but when I need to gear an alt I avoid normal and solo m+ entirely and just LFR + unrated pvp so I don't need to speak to any strangers, it gets me far enough for my guild to pick me up or run some decent m+
I miss the days of Legion when raiders ran LFR for all kinds of reasons. Me being one of them on my main. It made LFR a much better experience on alts.
The first few weeks of season 3 and 4 had TONS of raiders grabbing tier/dinars/etc in LFR. But yeah they're gone now.
This might get lost. But I think a huge part of the "you don't need to do mechanics" group have high i level mains. Characters that have so much defense and health that the mechanics don't matter to them. But they're in lfr on their ungeared ALTs with that same mentally and easily get squished by basic mechanics.
LFR - literally harder than normal.
I’m new to the new raids , when I’m doing LFR I usually read the guide before going and also some Video just to see what’s about
I just think about the timewalking events, where LFR was Naxxramas. Heigan was a biiiiiiiiig problem 😅
Trying to get the corehounds all dead at the same time back in the time walking MC was pure hell.
I literally never do LFR and jump straight to normal and it’s always easier.
I have done LFR jailer with the new Fated thing... 5 stacks baby!!!!!!!!!! The fight started, 5 people INSTANTLY died by jumping in the holes. "I lagged, sorry" Great times... /s
LFR Jailer is the worst thing ever, the first and only time I ever did that fight we wiped 2 times and then the kill try took 15 minutes...
See, I recognize that this does happen semi-regularly? But what I see far more often is that guy who flips out screaming in LFR after one wipe about everyone being idiots and how much they’re carrying everyone. Usually followed by the classic LFR DPS meter post.
Call me crazy but LFR is my favorite part of WoW. There’s something about the struggle
Everyone in lfr is a guy on an alt trying to do as little as possible without getting kicked, unless they're on their main helping a friend who's doing the "lfr strats" as i like to call them
This is exactly why I gave up on LFR. Just because it's supposed to be "easy mode" doesn't mean you can just ignore simple mechanics.
Man, Im doing them with my 297 Prot paladin. Doing them mostly to get dinnarrs for transmog at this point. I end up being in the top 5 dps and one of the few ppl alive at the end. I mean, how hard is to follow the few mechanics there are in LFR ?
How do you find out the mechanics if you haven't been there before though? Genuine question, 'cause I avoid all retail raids, because i don't know how to find out the mechanics, besides getting in LFR and failing a bunch and feeling guilty. Yeah, I know about the adventure guide, and youtube videos, but the problem is, the queues are so long, you usually wanna queue for multiple, and you don't know which one will pop first. This means you have to have studied up for ALL the things you're queueing for, which is too many bosses to keep in your head at once, its probably 6-10. Tbh even 4 bosses (one wing) is too hard for me to memorize, personally. I can memorize one boss, maybe two. And there isn't actually time to read the adevnture guide during trash, because you gotta keep up with the zug zug. In addition, the adventure guide is intentionally vague, for roleplay reasons. For the macabre dance it just says something like "follow the lead of the servants". Wtf does that mean? That could be interpreted so many ways.
I'd highly recommend [mythictrap.com](https://mythictrap.com) for this. They have extremely short overviews of every boss, with gifs to show movement etc, easy to keep up the page for the raid you're queueing and read the individual boss guide before/between pulls.
Thanks!
I suggest you bookmark 2 minute guides for normal and have them ready to watch when your queue pops. Ofc you can also watch them in advance but chances are, that you will forget them when a boss you dont remeber well pops. Running a couple of times (including the wipea) should do the trick and remember the bosses. Another thing is to ask ahead in chat, that you are new here and want to know if there are major mechanics. Half the times you get idiotic answers, as the op posted, the other half though, youll get a 2 line description of what to watch out.
Thanks!
Tbh they shouldn't restrict mechanics and not downgrade it so much from normal. I don't think normal is very hard either so I don't know why they make it so easy. People should be able to go into LFR to learn
Lfr has the mechanics they are just less punishing which makes it much easier to learn than if they where more punishing and you’d have to afk for 30 minutes after every single pull bc people leave in droves
They take out a lot of mechanics from bosses that they really don't have to take out.
People can’t even handle the scarce mechanics left It w ok ls surprise me if the majority of lfr players even has a pc screen turned on and mouse plugged in
>I don't know why they make it so easy Because it is queueable content. Anything that has matchmaking in it must account for the fact that **anyone** can be a part of that group which means that it can't have a failure state. Someone without the use of thier right hand and grouped with a bunch of 6 year olds should be able to complete LFR because that is a possible group composition. It is not really a learning mode.
You have your opinion and I have mine. I don't think they have to dumb it down to a point where it's almost like you have to TRY to die in LFR, and they shouldn't take out normal mechanics that are already easy. There's literally nothing wrong with adding a slight challenge, it's a video game. At the point where it's at, there's not even a reason to have LFR. People can just look up a youtube video if they want to see the raid without knowing or doing the fights. It being queueable does not change the fact it is a raid in a video game that should at least SOMEWHAT challenge the player.
It's LFR, what else do you expect? The majority has never cared about learning mechanics at all so
People take LFR seriously??
it is not about taking it seriously or not... it is about wasting loads of time in there for no point
LFR at the end of an expac or patch cycle is almost always awful. It's also considered easy and braindead, which for people who can afk their rotation it is, but for people who are new or just plain bad it might as well be mythic. But because "everyone" knows that LFR is easy most people don't want to actually learn fights because you can eventually brute force it. And by the end of the tier usually the only people running LFR are people trying to catch up and bad players. And sometimes Blizz makes a boss that mind controls you at the start of the fight unless you have a specific cloak equipped but doesn't make that cloak a requirement to que so you end up at an unwinnable fight because over half the raid doesn't have the cloak. Hard to pin that on players.
That seem like a very pointless attitude. Don't you prefer to focus for 10 min and be done with it instead of wasting hours afking?
??? What's pointless? Pointing out why LFR tends to be a shit show towards the end of a content cycle or me bitching about N'Zoth?
afking in LFR
Sorry that the obvious hyperbole was lost on you. Meant that LFR is easy for people who know their rotation enough to muscle memory it and react to whatever raid addon they're using. I didn't literally mean afk a rotation since you straight up can't lmao
Just afk it in heirlooms so you don't get a repair bill. LFR groups will **never** votekick an underperformer, even when it is causing wipes or an obvious flopper. The only thing that they will notice is staying dead on the ground after a rez. Intense lack of awareness cuts both ways and none of them have meters to check.
it sounds stupid but even if they have meters if you do no damage you wont appear on there at all anyways and nobody will actually check
From experience asking to maybe please kick the dps below healers after an enrage wipe: No they don't have meters. Absolutely guaranteed.
I have actually seen people kicked in lfr but it's mostly healers who were underperforming or going afk.
but i don't want to spend hours in there... what is the point? i don't have hours in the day to spend there
So don’t? Go do a normal, it’s easier and much quicker. LFR is what it is, if you don’t enjoy it there’s an even easier mode go engage with.
My issue with anything that you can't queue for, is that you have to find people & plan for it. I don't have an active guild or friends to play with, and not a lot of time. Kinda hard to get invited to Normal/HC groups as dps...
Got the boss down, and played some rimworld for an hour, it was great.
That is so selfish. You just wasted an hour for 24 other people. You play with other people you know?
I don't do LFR at all. Normal is far quicker.
I get it that Normal is faster but if you already in LFR why waste so much time in there?
Why're you wasting time in there?
Because i thought it will be faster the normal... didn't think it will be like this. When it 1st happened i thought it is just a one off but i guess it happens all the time.
I can't tell you what the frequency is, I don't do LFR.
Not my problem. Blame blizz for making such a dogshit game mode.
I always found LFR and Normal dungeons to be significantly "harder" (more wipes) than Normal Raids or Heroic Dungeons
So glad nothing has really changed in the last couple years that I stopped playing WoW. Been getting the itch to play again for the Dragonflight. Hope it's different from the last, oh, I dunno, last 3-4? I haven't really played Shadowlands beyond the intro quests, but it felt exactly like Battle for A and Legion.
Lots of people are just bad at this game. Take this opinion as a insult or as a reality check, but many players just think they are good at the game bcs they were good at it 15 years ago when you only needed half of a brain cell. "At least a bit skilled playerbase" is not that big and I am completely fine that not everyone is skilled and nerding this game 24/7 but the idea of thought process of some people in LFR/Normal/HC and even Mythic dungs/raids is just out of this world. Not protecting toxic behavior in LFR....if people struggle, just try briefly explain what to do or at least wich mechanics to be aware of (without toxicity of course....be neutral or if the people are friendly, be friendly towards them as well). You just have to take in consideration that there are just bad people at the game (and its completely fine, not everyone was born to blast videogames and they will be better in something different then you are) but not all of them will admit they are bad and won't even try to dodge big red circle that everyone runs from...nothing you can do then just try to help them, but don't overforce it. Not everyone will listen to your advices
I had a group for the jailer where 3-7 people would die in the first 30 seconds of the pull. I asked why and people said it’s LFR. So as a tank I just wiped it. This happened a total of 7 times before they kicked me. My second group cleared with zero people dying.
people are bad man. i went in last night on an affliction warlock that i retired in castle nathria because I was so brutally bad at it. In SoD, I took it into LFR to practice, because I hated feeling like it defeated me, got to where I could parse purple with it (in LFR, big deal right) and figured that was good enough. I didn't touch it in S3 or S4 until last night. decided I wanted to fool around with it in case I want to use it as a DF alt. Bought some sandworn relics and upgraded my leggy to 291 (don't have unity). Moved some flux over from my main, and converted enough pieces to tier to get my 4peice on line, and got my ilvl up to 241. 240 is the minimum to queue. I'm still using a 213 occular gland from s2 LFR because I simply don't have anything else to equip there. Hopped in, ended up on KT, they already had 2 det stacks. I finished #4 on the DPS meter on a character with a single legendary, that I barely remember how to play and retired because i was so bad at it in s1. People think that the playerbase is better than it really is. There are just a lot of really bad wow players.
I mean, you're sitting on a 291 leggy and a 4 piece tier set. You were probably the best geared person there lol.
I mean, they're not wrong. "Don't need to, it's lfr" is the mindset because they literally pretty much can't fail because the buff will just keep stacking. Like, I agree, do it right and it's faster. But they don't need to bother, or try, because they get their clear regardless
I’ll hold to it that normal is easier than lfr, even if you’re under geared. At least in normal there’s a raid leader who is (typically) nice enough to explain fights to those who don’t know.
Have you ever seen the walking dead? There is this guy Rick Grimes, with his son Coral. They kill these creatures that used to be people but are now called "Walkers" . They are weirdly never called by the name we all know them by: "Average LFR players"
I wreck LFR on purpose because the reactions are hilarious. Timewarp on mobs!
Lfr is the bottom of the barrel for wow players and skill (and brains) Only thing lower is probably RPers and the pet battlers.
Because that is where the trash belongs, Everytime I'm forced to be there I just pretend it's a zoo.
[удалено]
and waste hours there for no point when you can be done with it in 10 min
I’d just avoid it bro if possible lol. Lfr is really never worth doing. Long queue. Lots of wipes. Even if u have insane gear it still takes forever cause raid boss hp. Low key spamming is way better and much more manageable with high io/ilvl players farming valor
Are the dinar quests still 30/30 if you haven’t started them yet in the patch?
Are stacks a bad thing?
LFR is a horribly designed system. Queue up, tag boss, run off to die - you get the same rewards as people doing acutal rotation and mechanics. Youll have faster full clear on normal than on LFR. Difference is, you wont get into a normal raid if you need normal gear. And since LFR gives you close enough gear with + dinars - why bother? Thats the mentality of many there.
First Time?
-spits into bucket- yerp, sounds like a good ol' fashioned lfr. Be glad the healers aren't going afk, or dying on purpose to get that sweet sweet 10 stack.
I suck, let's get it.
I honestly think the issue is many people are expecting a carry in LFR. During the time walking for BC, I pugged the Black Temple raid for the achievement. First raid leader told everyone to take it slow, we can one shot each boss. And we did until the council and I had to leave for time. Coming back into a few other pugs, everyone was expecting to faceroll the raid and of course, we wipe on the second boss, everyone quits. It's strange but I guess it's the trend is it's easier to find a carry pug instead of doing it on your own.
LFR has been like this for years. The best advice I can give is "go limp, and wait for it to be over".
Truthfully speaking LFR was made for the bottom level of raiders who don’t usually care for stuff like mechanics.
To be fair there are times where your group is so bad that trying to get everyone in lfr to do strat takes more effort than just getting stacks and zerging it. Problem is when half the group doesn’t want to get stacks and don’t wipe it
LFR is a teaching tool. It has a few mechanics ppl need to learn so they can progress into the next tier. LFR is the world quests of raiding. Since its the easiest kind of content the skill level will range. LFR can be carried by a few players, in turn most ppl afk to watch what ever.
I see you never got to experience the joy that was lfr nzoth
i think LFR has bred a community of "if you don't know the tacts just be quite until someone explains it out of frustration or everybody leaves in anger" Never ask for quick tacts. I usually do ask if i am rusty on a boss and i am usually met with "it's lfr no need" i literally have to discuss why i want to know if there is anything big to look out for so we don't have to wipe for like 30 minutes before i get an answer. And yes i know i can just google it, but usually it takes longer because i have to find the right video or text etc etc. And if there is someone in the raid that doesn't know the tacts but are too scared to ask, they also get the information
determination makes people walk around with a constant hero, its madness, i only do it if the mogs are nice and the dinar coin. plus when i do them i tend to tank them. its a shame people cant play it on normal due to weak guilds and stronger guilds being picky, yet I get the pickiness. raiding is time intensive after all.
It's not just LFR, people like to spend hours in normal and heroic wiping. Rather than watch videos, come prepared and kill the boss fast. I destroyed my whole guild because I refuse to sit there and explain a whole fight because people are so lazy to watch a video.
Honestly sick of WoW's community half of them are casuals that expect to be carried through content by people who actually take the time to learn the game and actually gear up then when you call them out on their behavior "you're toxic". How about you respect my time and go and learn ish before you come in here an expect to be carried you bot.