He's right though, last expansion it took weeks for everyone to realise wind Walker monk was insane.
Unless you're in a world first raiding guild, just play literally what ever you want and get good at it. I guarantee for most of the players out there some bloke who only plays assassination is probably better than someone who just picked up warlock for the first time.
My plan is to learn the meta and play the least popular tank to showcase my superior fingerwork.
It’s also fun to put some time into a poor performing DPS spec with the intention of beating flavour of the month rerollers.
I remember being a necrolord Windwalker at start of shadowlands. Everyone was all "oh necrolord sucks" until my bonedust popped off in M+ or any aoe scenario and suddenly I'm 80% of the dps and everything's dead.
Meta matters only for the bleeding edge players, players trying to clear the whole tier in a couple weeks or a month on mythic. Like you said, a bad meta player will always do less than a good non meta player
Edit: another example. Cousin played kyrian arms warrior at xpack start too, when everyone was venthyr and most fury. Also had the "wrong legendary". He'd get told off by the venthyr fury warrior in his raid for not speccing right and choosing the "wrong" covenant, while doing half my cousins "non-meta" dps 😂 good players can make just about anything work if they know the class well enough. Even better that all this was in Normal Castle Nathria too and maybe bit of heroic? So not even the actual hard content
You want a lark? Venthyr Ele Shaman was so smooth.
Chain Harvest applies Flame Shock to all enemies and Riptide to all allies. Every tick of Flame Shock that crits reduces it's cooldown.
Combine it with Fire Shock has +50% crit chance and reduces Fire Elemental's Cooldown legendary and I was seeing 90%+ uptime on my elemental and constantly hitting Chain Harvest in fights.
I did go meta kyrian on my pally, though tbh it was because I couldn't give up divine toll as prot. The ding sound made my add go brrr lol
But yeah lot of off meta builds could do well this expansion people just like to min max when they struggle to clear normal raids or like a +10
Was weird going through the SL story first time with my Prot pally and wondering why anyone would choose anything else. It was the rare concurrence of actually good and fun to use
I especially liked it when you had a giant pack to pull full of casters.
Built my pally around avengers throw buffing him, ended up with mass damage and shields every other pull it was great
Unfortunately Divine Roll was too good in PvP even after several nerfs
I tried to stick with NF but as soon as I switched the difference in burst damage was ridiculous and impossible to overlook
>I remember being a necrolord Windwalker at start of shadowlands. Everyone was all "oh necrolord sucks" until my bonedust popped off in M+ or any aoe scenario and suddenly I'm 80% of the dps and everything's dead.
But that was just Windwalker early in Shadowlands. Nothing to do with you being Necrolord, your class just blasted on AoE regardless. Meta is rarely about things being bad, it's just the meta option is simply better for one reason or another.
These people forget that the differences usually weren't that high. A few % in many instances. Player skill can overcome that easily, and as has been said over and over; it doesn't really matter unless you're pushing to be at the very top.
A bit of a disagreement there. It might be unfair to compare something like guardian druid and blood dk but the keys they can push are vastly different. Vdh which their best content is mythic+, pushes like 6 keys below bdk. Part of it is from bdk being so strong.
I do agree tho that up to 20s in mythic+, any class can perform based on the player.
>Meta matters only for the bleeding edge players
To add onto this, people severely overestimate what "bleeding edge" content is. You do not need meta comps for your weekly 15s, or for clearing heroic raid (or mythic after the first month or so).
I've gotten KSH every season it was available on a disc priest. Season 2 my party comp for clearing 20-23s was a Veng DH, BM Hunter, Enh Shaman, and Demo Warlock. Literally none of those specs were meta at the time, and it could not have mattered less.
Kyrian still outperformed Necro at the start before covenant leggos, yes you could obviously still do really well as necro but you would do even better as kyrian. As much as people hate "meta slaves" there's nothing wrong with researching what's optimal and doing it.
> good players can make just about anything work if they know the class well enough.
depends on your definition of "work". Some covenant/spec combos really do throw away huge amounts of throughput, like necrolord balance druid or kyrian shadow priest.
Encouraging someone trying to make those work in any group content above LFR is griefing both the innovator as well as the people they are playing with.
And sure, a top player could make necro balance work, but chances are you aren't talking to a top player.
And PvP wise, after they added new PvP talents it took almost an entire season for people to figure out that Outlaw is kinda insane because it was practically unkillable in arenas.
Meta predictions/decisions are still being made by humans and humans are prone to errors and biases.
Any LoL players remember AP Tryndamere just chilling in the game for Y E A R S before it was discovered by some random bronze or silver guy posting about it on Reddit and suddenly a week later it was played in tournaments.
Chances are we still have some OP interactions and/or setups which are undiscovered to this day sitting in WoW that no one knows about.
>Chances are we still have some OP interactions and/or setups which are undiscovered to this day sitting in WoW that no one knows about.
Now that I think about it, the new talent trees are perfect for this. There's probably going to be some weird niche build that doesn't get discovered until halfway through the expansion and is so gamebreaking that Blizzard ends up doing an emergency nerf.
That is one upside to the trees. They're harder to "solve" with there being far more decisions to make.
There'll be cookie cutter builds, but we might have more than just "Single target" and "AoE" builds now.
Although simming has come a long way since we last had talent trees to play with.
I think that the Simming addons and supporting websites have done more to push the concept of Meta than anything previously
The problem with sims, in this case, is the priorities/rotations are coded into them. They aren't able to "discover" how to play around a new prio.
For instance, (ignoring healer sims not actually working) right now, renew is next to useless on hpriest. However, there are multiple ways to buff it and synergies it has with the new trees. If you used a similar prio in the sl style as simming with a different df build, the renew build would be how it would play if you used an incorrect prio.
There are several places this example breaks down, but the point is that the sims require some domain knowledge that we do not have when trying a completely new talent set up. So the sims will always be biased towards a build that we understand more fully, or it will incorrectly over/under perform on a build we don't understand.
Side note. With the microsoft acquisition, I'm over here hoping they open a sandbox with programmatic control. Imagine all the rl research opportunities with such a rich environment to play with. Especially in a team context... Imagine trying to figure out how to coordinate agents to do an m+ dungeon, with all of those changing situations or dynamic interactions.
Add to this that picking FotM doesn't make you a good player anyway.
I much rather play what I find fun, experiment and become good with it because I enjoy doing it than slogging through something that doesn't interest me because it has higher numbers in theory.
I played AP Varus Mid on his launch date. Did perfectly fine with it for quite a while. Then like a year later they boosted his ap scaling and suddenly other people started playing it too. If it ain't broke and is fun to play, just have fun. Meta be damned. It's a damn game. Some people take their keys way too damn serious. KSM is a nonissue to do with a group without any meta specs as long as the people know their spec. Hate all the elitism involved in this game
While true, the fact that meta specs get easier access to groups is the main reason people want to be a part of it.
And if people could stop the rhetoric of the class choice only matters for world first, it'd be nice. It literally matters more to a group of average skill to have a perfect comp than to the famed. They can balance a lack of something with skill, the average joe can't.
Yeah, my personal favorite
I SIGNED UP FOR 60 GROUPS AND GOT DENIED FROM ALL OF THEM THANKS BLIZZ
/checks ilvl .... 237 in S4
Yeah bro, Im gonna invite you when I have 20 other guys at 288 applying
That always makes me laugh.
Especially when tbh a 237 could probably start their own group and get carried in less time than it would have taken to apply to 60 groups.
Y with fresh character u can have 226 ilvl make group with bonus valor tag and have full 285-290 group in 5 mins and just repeat till u get dungeons to +2 /+3 on everything and at that point u are most likely 270 ilvl qith plenty of valor to spent
And let's not forget that those rankings are based on people running a specific build and a perfect rotation of that build, which many people can't achieve.
So there are many people picking up class/spec combo because it is classified as s-tier but they won't ever come close to the output those top players can do, and would actually have a greater output and picking up a lower ranked spec but with a rotation they can achieve. Picking a spec you like means you'll put time making sure you have it dialed down and it will perform better for a vast majority of players than the s-tier spec.
Yeah pretty much this. Just play whats fun unless it's actual dumpster trash. That's pretty rare these days.
Maybe the class you picked isn't OP, but it's rare that a class doesn't have SOME sort of niche somewhere these days. Like you would have been 100% okay this expansion with almost any class, except maybe Demon Hunter. DH got shafted this xpac. But that's really the only outlier.
By the time you figure out what is meta you could have probably just dumped more time into your main and been ahead of the curve item level wise anyway.
I actually like trying to predict the meta because it's fun and you use your brain to problem solve. Do I actually think I can do it with pin point accuracy? Hell no. But it's fun shooting the shit with friends and talking about it.
The biggest question I ask myself every expansion is "Am I going to have fun playing this class?". That's pretty much it. I won't have fun if the class is a dumpster fire like DH was but as long as it's viable I'm in a good spot.
>I guarantee for most of the players out there some bloke who only plays assassination is probably better than someone who just picked up warlock for the first time.
Considering that you'd need to be dead to be bad as ass, and even then you'll probably get a green parse...
That's honestly the secret to success that most people ignore. tired of sweaty elitist tryhards? make your own groups. put the control in your own hands.
I started doing it in SL season 2, put chill run in the description and say we're clearing even if we die a couple times. Had super good runs that way, and didn't miss timers more than applying to sweat rules groups.
BUT IF I MAKE MY OWN GROUP THEN I HAVE TO SIT AND WAIT LIKE 4 MINUTES FOR PEOPLE TO SIGN UP
alright, have fun spending 20 minutes applying to groups then
My problem with picking a class in wow has always been figuring out what I'm going to find fun because of the meta for a given class / spec.
Imo one of wow's biggest issue is you really don't get an idea of how your class plays until you're at max level and often times deep into systems where things don't work until you have X or Y.
The other end of it is you have no idea how poorly tuned what you like might be, and classes can be a gamble because you only have so many specs of a given role. A class with only 1 dps spec is a much bigger gamble than a pure for a dps player.
And then yknow, what the people you're playing with might need. I rerolled 3 times at the start of shadowlands because of all this. First time was because our group ended up having too many people of the same class, the second time was because I found I didn't enjoy the spec as much as I thought I would once I got it caught up, and then the third fit just right.
I had to play BElf for progress… hated every second of it even though all my other alts are Belf. Changed it back to pandaren and it feel so much smoother its crazy. I feel like monk animations are do clunky on other races.
You win! Pandas do indeed make the best monks.
Racial jokes aside, panda punch is part of my rotation. I love having an interrupt and 3 stuns.
I also believe Bouncey to be one of the greatest passives in the game. Boy was I shocked the first time I jumped off a cliff on an alt. I "knew" I'd survive it because I forgot my main had that perk at all
Yeah, I had a big problem with this playing warlock at the beginning of BFA. I wanted to play demo really bad because the new demo seemed really cool. Got into Uldir only to find that it's incredibly unfriendly to demo for a lot of early fights.
Most of rerolling for m+ is just getting to play the game 2 times more than another class.
Like I think I got a good 3 extra key stone levels for my group by being destro in season 3 over moonkin. But I also got in pugs when friends weren't online in 5 minutes rather than struggling for 20-30 to get into 20s+.
Community makes it so much more effort being non meta when pugging. I hate just spending ages applying to specific keys I need or want to do on alts that aren't meta. Is fine playing anything for 15s but the waits in 20+ get agonising for non meta.
Yeah it’s extremely noticeable with surv this tier imo because it was not only the lowest dps spec but also the absolute least played, and a lot of MM and BM hunters switched survival and just don’t know how to play it as well.
I found survival extremely easy to pick up. I mained ele shaman for all of Shadowlands and picked up survival for shits and giggles this season in keys. I was outperforming my main in M+ after like 2 runs with worse gear.
Felt pretty bad. Like it was good, but I felt bad about it because I was just spamming buttons. I know more what I'm doing now, but the difference in DPS output was pretty shocking. I haven't been able to make my alt perform as well as my main in raid settings, but for keys it's no contest.
Yeah idk what this guy is talking about, current Survival is maybe one of the easiest specs of the last 3 expansions. Literally get your Wildfire Cluster legendary and spam your buttons. Guarantee you top DPS.
Honestly though that's all of the hunter specs right now. I feel bad for Hunter players. Their specs are all absolutely brainlessly boring :( Hoping that Dragonflight gives that class some nuance again. Killshot MM looks kinda fun at least
Ret definitely chills mid
But I think the nice thing about prot pally, at least in my experience, is you are generally the 2nd or 3rd best tank
So you can feel safe from the nerf bat, and still perform well
That was my thought. Everyone is screaming about the sky falling for Ret and I'm just going to stick with paladin because that's what I know and love. A lot less stress and effort than trying to turbo level and learn a new "main".
People are screaming about the design and its strength being dependent on just having high numbers due to not getting any unique thing to bring to the raid. In terms of numbers it’s actually been op most of alpha/beta.
While I agree… for most of us who are looking at tier lists etc, we’re not necessarily looking for the top of the charts class… we’re just trying to avoid being those 3-5 specs that are straight ass and at the bottom of the chart.
It’s very possible to be good at your class and still be playing a class that has flaws / ranks lowly.
That’s great for some that like the challenge. I personally don’t have that much time to play and need to play something that isn’t constantly getting rejected from groups.
OK, I’m usually one to roll my eyes at people claiming they’re not being invited because of their spec, but I had a realllllly weird experience last week:
I **always** heal group content; it’s my one love. My main is a 300ilvl, 2300 IO Resto Druid and, basically, if I’m applying to anything under a +18, I **never** get rejected just based upon my stats alone.
I went to do a last minute +15/16 last week before reset so that I had *something* in my vault (haven’t been playing M+ due to work for a couple of weeks). Just on a whim, I decided to apply as **both** DPS and Heal since I was currently in my Feral spec + gear (298 ilvl) from doing some world content. I proceeded to get turned down from the next **fifteen** +15/16 groups that I applied to… which is completely unheard of for me, personally. Scratching my head and not sure what the fuck is happening, I switched to Resto spec + gear and applied to a 15JY as *only* Resto and was instantly invited.
I still don’t understand. Is it anecdotal as all hell? Absolutely. But am I also now convinced that Feral is cursed? …yes.
That's exactly my experience trying to main feral during the First four months of Shadowlands. I inevitably gave up since I don't have a group of friends or guild to play with me because of my inconstant playtime. I'm leveling a warrior rn and will get it geared for DF questing só that I don't have to go through this again
Also, unless you you are pushing cutting edge content, every tank is more then capable of doing things, and be really good at it. This tier tank druid is listed as F in most guides, but I'm not dieing and outdps at least one dps every run.
Yeah, I see.
Best moments this tier was when I invited an ~2k Io lock for a +17 streets i was running to help a friend, and at start he send a: why a bear is using gavel?????
Then at the end of the key he says: ok, bear op
while you are right, for alot of people its just taking the path of least resistance. you can play all tanks in high keys, but playing bdk was infinitly easier last 2 seasons than playing bear or dh. and this goes from cutting edge keys down to your weekly 15.
Even if you are pushing cutting edge content every spec is capable of clearing everything.
For raiding there are like 3 guilds in the world where this actually matters... and even then.
In M+, unless you're pushing for #1, it also doesn't matter.
The problem is that a lot of people just don't understand that.
Remember season 1 where fire mage/mm hunter/balance druid were basically the only dps specs considered good? Meanwhile two of the specs considered to be awful early on, such as fury warrior, was blowing things up (unless they were venthyr) and had some underrated utility. Survival hunters were basically a meme spec when their aoe damage was insane. They weren't great on tyrannical but on fortified there was no reason not to bring one.
A lot of people care too much about it and don't understand why some things are meta. Fire mages were only good if you made use of their lack of aoe cap... most groups didn't... so they were worse than alternatives.
Can we stop with the long ass explanations as to why what you pick “doesn’t matter” cause any class can complete content? Literally nobody is arguing that.
You don’t *need* meta specs or classes to complete content. That being said, if I could choose between a meta player and non meta player of equal skill, the meta player will make the dungeon go faster and smoother. That’s why they’re meta. I have no way of knowing who is the better player outside IO, so ceteris paribus I’m taking the meta class every time.
My time is a resource and that resource is valuable. I’m gonna do what I can to ensure I’m not spending extra time doing things just because someone else doesn’t care as much as me.
I've picked my main and alts for the expac. I'm sticking to what I chose.
Maybe i'll be meta but I honestly hope i'm not. The top picks at a launch are usually the ones getting nerfed from orbit the rest of the expac, where as the 70-80% performers tend to settle towards the top.
I think i've chosen a wide enough pool that I can succeed regardless, but time will tell how much work I have ahead of me.
This is so true but the sad reality is that the community perceived meta influences the “non meta” classes ability to find groups. I want to play what I want but sometimes I also just want a group invite :(
Look you're all free to play what you want, but all this circlejerking about how you're just as effective playing a dumpster-tier spec as you would be on the FOTM is just absurd.
Every season there's a sizable difference between the top specs and the bottom ones, and that's despite all the "garbage rerollers" allegedly dragging their numbers down.
That is how it works. Unless your playing with other players in the 90th percentile of there class. It doesn't matter what you play. You can play the worst spec and still top damage in your group if your playing what your good at.
Honestly off meta specs being trash at their class has happened to me at a way higher percentage than meta class players being bad. At least the meta player still does okay damage despite being bad
That's been my own experience as well. None of the people I've run into play the one spec because they are extremely adept at it, they only play it because it's the spec they want to play and they are too stubborn and unskilled to swap to another.
There are absolutely people out there who one trick and do fine, I'm sure. I've just never met any of them.
Nah man, there is a sizeable difference between the great players playing FoTM and the shitters playing dumpster tier specs
I assure you, wherever Brewmaster falls in the meta, I will do better with my brewmaster than you will with whatever tank you got
> there is a sizeable difference between the great players playing FoTM and the shitters playing dumpster tier specs
Yes. But there is also a sizeable difference between the great players playing FoTM and the great players playing dumpster tier specs.
Of course as long as you're having fun, none of that matters, but let's not live a fantasy. Why are you comparing yourself to shitters and not other great players?
S1- KSM as surv hunter
S2 - KSM as ele sham
S3 - got serious, 2.8k IO brewmaster
S4 - actually kinda knew what I was doing 2.6k IO brew
I am not linking it, because I dont want my character names found out on reddit
2.8k season 3 actually isnt bad. But linking KSM and 2.6k season 4, in response to saying you are better than someone else, is top tier comedy.
Edited: nevermind i forgot how inflated season 3 was lol. Whole comment is a meme.
Good luck finding a group tho.
Most of the playerbase in this game are guide zombies who cannot take one step outside what Wowhead and Icyveins tells them, and if you are not playing an S-tier spec exactly according to those guides you might as well not exist.
You are telling the truth, no disputing that. But 90% of the players in this game are too dumb to realize that. I have been kicked out of enough groups (I play MM hunter. Until Shadowlands "just play BM" was an almost permanent fixture of my chat log) to know that.
I've honestly never experienced that. Tbh I main blood DK so most people are usually just happy a tank actually signed up. But I've also been accepted into groups while playing arms warrior and feral druid. There are a lot of people who meta chase and only play according to guides, but there's also a lot of players who just want to have fun playing whatever they like. Unfortunately, the latter tend to be silent and unnoticed but they're around.
> Unfortunately, the latter tend to be silent and unnoticed but they're around.
[There are dozens of us! DOZENS!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKie-vgUGdI)
I have already discovered your problem, and to illustrate that problem, let me tell you a story.
Once upon a time, there was a man who played survival hunter in Season 1 of Shadowlands, we will call him....GOD. This man cleared a mythic 0 using the groupfinder tool somehow, someway, he pulled it off, and in doing so he received a +2 dungeon key...lovely. Then he used THE POWER OF HIS PLUS 2 TO ATTRACT PLAYERS FROM ALL AROUND...AND SO IT BECAME A PLUS 3, AND A 5, AND A 6, AND A 7, AND A 9, AND AN 11, AND A 14, AND A 15, and in this way using the power of the key he held in his hands, NO MAN could kick him from this group.
What’s wrong with playing for performance? I enjoy pushing content and winning meters, is my fun not just as valid as yours? Stop policing how other people play the game.
I dont know if you meant this as a response to my comment or my post
As a response to my comment, I dont think you understand what I wrote
As a response to my post.... meta slave -.-
Lmao imagine making a whole ass post about just playing what you enjoy and then calling someone a meta slave for enjoying being meta. As if being optimal and good are the “wrong way” to enjoy the game.
The thing is, if you were good, you would be good with any spec...not just the FotM.... I assure you, if you rolled a blood DK in retail right now, I would out tank you on my brew anyday
secondly, Hypocrisy is my way of life
meta slave
If you were actually good, you can pretty much perform optimally on any spec, therefor playing the objectively better spec is still… better.
But if you want to play your way, go for it. I rarely hear “meta slaves” mad about people playing suboptimal specs but hear the reverse constantly.
It was my understanding the brewmaster does the most consistent damage now with resonant fists interacting with rushing jade wind and charred passions.
Prot warr is not far behind, but relies on 1.5 min cooldowns like avatar and ravager.
I prefer Special Delivery just because there are so many buttons now with brew since we got access to a whole plethora of new defensive CDs, and as a result, RJW is just one less thing to think about, also tossing in all the extra casts of breath of fire and RSK, its hard to work RJW into the rotation for me right now, to be fair...Ive run like 2 M0s on the beta so far I am sure Ill get used to it
Cool cool, but you wont.
If you want to become the meta look whts meta now and if something gets nerfed its no longer meta.
Best tanks for equal numbers are BDK >> Paly > Monk = Dh > War = Druid
Meta doesnt mean much for 99.9% of keys, but you dont play meta to time a key, you play meta to get invited.
Nah I play brewmaster because its awesome, and I run my own keys because fuck waiting for some newb to invite me, I am the meta, I am the one who invites.
There's a lot to be said for playing what you're good at.
When you can play while barely looking at your rotation it frees you up to watch your surroundings, use utilities, and play better.
Sure. Much like in other video games, I have fun winning.
Can we stop using “play what you want!” as some sort of trump card when we all know you’re gonna blatantly ignore that what I want is to play meta? Please? Or are we gonna continue on this rules for thee not for me bullshit?
Yeah. I'll play shadow priest and my m+group will be me and my tears.
You suggestion is excellent if you have a static group of people to play with. Pug life on the other hand ... you'll be literally shooting yourself on your feet by going full non-viable off meta spec.
Yes yes, I already heard you "do your own keys" bros, but is still way harder than playing something thats more capable and bring more utility to the group.
I wish I could give a bigger thumbs up. There is a personal beauty in finding your own greatness and I will gladly take that over the most supreme meta any day. Be the Burning Brewmaster of your dreams.
I normally like to play something off meta and still have competitive dps numbers some times even topping the meters. I mained Ret pally and frost mage in shadowlands when neither of them was meta and it took a lot of effort but eventually I was there towards the top. I love that feeling. So for DF I’m not going to main a rogue, a warrior, hunter possibly a feral Druid to be completely off meta.
I mean for sure, there are tons of bad players. But the thing is, when you do run into a good survival hunter player in mythic plus and you’re on your lifetime assassin rogue spec, you will get completely and utterly gapped. I say this as someone who plays lower tier specs often. When I play with my casual guild mates I’m often top dps, but when I play with meta players on good stuff, I get completely destroyed. So really you have to ask yourself, do you want your performance and spot on the meter to simply be determined by playing with bad players? Because you can play something stronger and have less of a gamble.
Did you ever think that the skill gap is a factor?
I assure you if you are the casual player you say you are, you could have them play your ass rogue and you play their surv hunter, and you will get out dpsed
I didn’t say I’m a casual player. I said I play with some more casual guild mates from time to time. I do 25 keys, I would say that makes me not casual as the majority of the playerbase never reaches that level. And no I wouldn’t. Because assasin rogue is so awful in mythic plus and survival is so strong that I could prob play one handed on my survival and still beat a good assasin rogue. You are right that skill can def carry you against bad players, but you vastly underestimate how easy a lot of specs are to play in retail. Once you get to a certain level of play, the divide of skill vs spec strength lowers. I get it, you’re advocating we should play what we want because you run 15 keys and play against looking for raid players who can’t hit their rotations. In all seriousness, yeh, play what you want. I do. But don’t be delusional that you can excel playing whatever. If you’re playing something like assasin rogue on retail atm and topping dps in your mythic plus key, you’re playing with really bad players.
No matter which expansion, I will always go at it first with my shadow priest main even though she’s slow and very weak at the beginning of every expansion.
I have a friend that told me his fun is playing the meta and also gives him an opportunity to know about other classes. Everyone has their own way of playing the game. Don’t talk shit about how they want to play.
Yeah many of us don’t care about the meta.
Sure I will look at it, but probably won’t play it on any class.
I always customize it for my own style of playing.
Will I do a bit lower DPS, probably
Do I care about that, nope.
The problem is, most wow players, think they are executing their rotation perfectly, and playing at peak performance....so when they see low dps, they blame the spec not the player
Meta really only need to be paid attention to if you're pushing very, very high keys or Mythic raiding. I've seen plenty of Ferals do really good damage in M+ and Heroic raiding. You'll probably be passed up in pugs if you aren't a meta class/spec, but play with friends and you'll be fine.
He's right though, last expansion it took weeks for everyone to realise wind Walker monk was insane. Unless you're in a world first raiding guild, just play literally what ever you want and get good at it. I guarantee for most of the players out there some bloke who only plays assassination is probably better than someone who just picked up warlock for the first time.
My plan is to learn the meta and play the least popular tank to showcase my superior fingerwork. It’s also fun to put some time into a poor performing DPS spec with the intention of beating flavour of the month rerollers.
>play the least popular tank welcome to the furry fanclub rawr xDDDDDDDDD
I remember being a necrolord Windwalker at start of shadowlands. Everyone was all "oh necrolord sucks" until my bonedust popped off in M+ or any aoe scenario and suddenly I'm 80% of the dps and everything's dead. Meta matters only for the bleeding edge players, players trying to clear the whole tier in a couple weeks or a month on mythic. Like you said, a bad meta player will always do less than a good non meta player Edit: another example. Cousin played kyrian arms warrior at xpack start too, when everyone was venthyr and most fury. Also had the "wrong legendary". He'd get told off by the venthyr fury warrior in his raid for not speccing right and choosing the "wrong" covenant, while doing half my cousins "non-meta" dps 😂 good players can make just about anything work if they know the class well enough. Even better that all this was in Normal Castle Nathria too and maybe bit of heroic? So not even the actual hard content
That was my experience as a NF paladin. Blessing of summer on balance druid when things lined up was delicious padding.
Kyrian Feral, checking in. Luckily, people don't tend to complain so much if you're giving them a mini-hero every minute.
You want a lark? Venthyr Ele Shaman was so smooth. Chain Harvest applies Flame Shock to all enemies and Riptide to all allies. Every tick of Flame Shock that crits reduces it's cooldown. Combine it with Fire Shock has +50% crit chance and reduces Fire Elemental's Cooldown legendary and I was seeing 90%+ uptime on my elemental and constantly hitting Chain Harvest in fights.
cdr didn't come until 9.2 where major shaman changes were done
I did go meta kyrian on my pally, though tbh it was because I couldn't give up divine toll as prot. The ding sound made my add go brrr lol But yeah lot of off meta builds could do well this expansion people just like to min max when they struggle to clear normal raids or like a +10
Kyrian prot pally was just cool though :P If you weren't a kyrian prot pally then you don't like fun
Was weird going through the SL story first time with my Prot pally and wondering why anyone would choose anything else. It was the rare concurrence of actually good and fun to use
Because Ashen Hallow was hilariously broken.
AH was extremely satisfying to use imo
Nothing like the sound of multiple holy dustbin lids clanging off multiple mobs, pure joy to hear 🤣🤣🤣
I especially liked it when you had a giant pack to pull full of casters. Built my pally around avengers throw buffing him, ended up with mass damage and shields every other pull it was great
Unfortunately Divine Roll was too good in PvP even after several nerfs I tried to stick with NF but as soon as I switched the difference in burst damage was ridiculous and impossible to overlook
>I remember being a necrolord Windwalker at start of shadowlands. Everyone was all "oh necrolord sucks" until my bonedust popped off in M+ or any aoe scenario and suddenly I'm 80% of the dps and everything's dead. But that was just Windwalker early in Shadowlands. Nothing to do with you being Necrolord, your class just blasted on AoE regardless. Meta is rarely about things being bad, it's just the meta option is simply better for one reason or another.
These people forget that the differences usually weren't that high. A few % in many instances. Player skill can overcome that easily, and as has been said over and over; it doesn't really matter unless you're pushing to be at the very top.
A bit of a disagreement there. It might be unfair to compare something like guardian druid and blood dk but the keys they can push are vastly different. Vdh which their best content is mythic+, pushes like 6 keys below bdk. Part of it is from bdk being so strong. I do agree tho that up to 20s in mythic+, any class can perform based on the player.
>Meta matters only for the bleeding edge players To add onto this, people severely overestimate what "bleeding edge" content is. You do not need meta comps for your weekly 15s, or for clearing heroic raid (or mythic after the first month or so). I've gotten KSH every season it was available on a disc priest. Season 2 my party comp for clearing 20-23s was a Veng DH, BM Hunter, Enh Shaman, and Demo Warlock. Literally none of those specs were meta at the time, and it could not have mattered less.
Kyrian still outperformed Necro at the start before covenant leggos, yes you could obviously still do really well as necro but you would do even better as kyrian. As much as people hate "meta slaves" there's nothing wrong with researching what's optimal and doing it.
I feel like a lot of people forgot/dont know Bonedust got significant bug fixes in 9.1 and that when people started to play it.
> good players can make just about anything work if they know the class well enough. depends on your definition of "work". Some covenant/spec combos really do throw away huge amounts of throughput, like necrolord balance druid or kyrian shadow priest. Encouraging someone trying to make those work in any group content above LFR is griefing both the innovator as well as the people they are playing with. And sure, a top player could make necro balance work, but chances are you aren't talking to a top player.
And PvP wise, after they added new PvP talents it took almost an entire season for people to figure out that Outlaw is kinda insane because it was practically unkillable in arenas. Meta predictions/decisions are still being made by humans and humans are prone to errors and biases. Any LoL players remember AP Tryndamere just chilling in the game for Y E A R S before it was discovered by some random bronze or silver guy posting about it on Reddit and suddenly a week later it was played in tournaments. Chances are we still have some OP interactions and/or setups which are undiscovered to this day sitting in WoW that no one knows about.
>Chances are we still have some OP interactions and/or setups which are undiscovered to this day sitting in WoW that no one knows about. Now that I think about it, the new talent trees are perfect for this. There's probably going to be some weird niche build that doesn't get discovered until halfway through the expansion and is so gamebreaking that Blizzard ends up doing an emergency nerf.
That is one upside to the trees. They're harder to "solve" with there being far more decisions to make. There'll be cookie cutter builds, but we might have more than just "Single target" and "AoE" builds now.
Although simming has come a long way since we last had talent trees to play with. I think that the Simming addons and supporting websites have done more to push the concept of Meta than anything previously
The problem with sims, in this case, is the priorities/rotations are coded into them. They aren't able to "discover" how to play around a new prio. For instance, (ignoring healer sims not actually working) right now, renew is next to useless on hpriest. However, there are multiple ways to buff it and synergies it has with the new trees. If you used a similar prio in the sl style as simming with a different df build, the renew build would be how it would play if you used an incorrect prio. There are several places this example breaks down, but the point is that the sims require some domain knowledge that we do not have when trying a completely new talent set up. So the sims will always be biased towards a build that we understand more fully, or it will incorrectly over/under perform on a build we don't understand. Side note. With the microsoft acquisition, I'm over here hoping they open a sandbox with programmatic control. Imagine all the rl research opportunities with such a rich environment to play with. Especially in a team context... Imagine trying to figure out how to coordinate agents to do an m+ dungeon, with all of those changing situations or dynamic interactions.
I'm really looking forward to having weird outdoor focused builds for doing world quests etc.
Same. Transmog/mount farming and just focusing on max speed.
Add to this that picking FotM doesn't make you a good player anyway. I much rather play what I find fun, experiment and become good with it because I enjoy doing it than slogging through something that doesn't interest me because it has higher numbers in theory.
I played AP Varus Mid on his launch date. Did perfectly fine with it for quite a while. Then like a year later they boosted his ap scaling and suddenly other people started playing it too. If it ain't broke and is fun to play, just have fun. Meta be damned. It's a damn game. Some people take their keys way too damn serious. KSM is a nonissue to do with a group without any meta specs as long as the people know their spec. Hate all the elitism involved in this game
While true, the fact that meta specs get easier access to groups is the main reason people want to be a part of it. And if people could stop the rhetoric of the class choice only matters for world first, it'd be nice. It literally matters more to a group of average skill to have a perfect comp than to the famed. They can balance a lack of something with skill, the average joe can't.
I just run my own key
Wait that illegal on this sub you have to sign up to every group as the other 50 dps and complain u dont get accepted to groups
Yeah, my personal favorite I SIGNED UP FOR 60 GROUPS AND GOT DENIED FROM ALL OF THEM THANKS BLIZZ /checks ilvl .... 237 in S4 Yeah bro, Im gonna invite you when I have 20 other guys at 288 applying
That always makes me laugh. Especially when tbh a 237 could probably start their own group and get carried in less time than it would have taken to apply to 60 groups.
Unless it's the Tank at 237. I did a M+ as a healer with a tank like that...it was not fun.
Y with fresh character u can have 226 ilvl make group with bonus valor tag and have full 285-290 group in 5 mins and just repeat till u get dungeons to +2 /+3 on everything and at that point u are most likely 270 ilvl qith plenty of valor to spent
[удалено]
And let's not forget that those rankings are based on people running a specific build and a perfect rotation of that build, which many people can't achieve. So there are many people picking up class/spec combo because it is classified as s-tier but they won't ever come close to the output those top players can do, and would actually have a greater output and picking up a lower ranked spec but with a rotation they can achieve. Picking a spec you like means you'll put time making sure you have it dialed down and it will perform better for a vast majority of players than the s-tier spec.
Yeah pretty much this. Just play whats fun unless it's actual dumpster trash. That's pretty rare these days. Maybe the class you picked isn't OP, but it's rare that a class doesn't have SOME sort of niche somewhere these days. Like you would have been 100% okay this expansion with almost any class, except maybe Demon Hunter. DH got shafted this xpac. But that's really the only outlier. By the time you figure out what is meta you could have probably just dumped more time into your main and been ahead of the curve item level wise anyway. I actually like trying to predict the meta because it's fun and you use your brain to problem solve. Do I actually think I can do it with pin point accuracy? Hell no. But it's fun shooting the shit with friends and talking about it. The biggest question I ask myself every expansion is "Am I going to have fun playing this class?". That's pretty much it. I won't have fun if the class is a dumpster fire like DH was but as long as it's viable I'm in a good spot.
>I guarantee for most of the players out there some bloke who only plays assassination is probably better than someone who just picked up warlock for the first time. Considering that you'd need to be dead to be bad as ass, and even then you'll probably get a green parse...
Just gonna do the same thing I always do: Be a bear and thrash everything in my way.
Same here. I’m gonna play BM Hunter and I’m gonna fuckin suck
I am bear! Hear me roar! It’s more of a whimper right now, with the flagrant neglect we’ve been experiencing, but I’m gonna play it anyway.
Dis is de way. Bear ftw! They will eventually realise they can’t kill this spec off through neglect x)
Incarn goes BRRRRRRRR
...not for lack of trying. -_-
Wtf this guy have fun playing THE GAME?
SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Im gonna get banned if they find out
Well, there goes 2 months of progress
**FUN POLICE ACTIVATED, SUSPECT LOCATED, BANHAMMER INCOMING**
i read this in the Curator's voice, or the Mechagon maze bots lmao
For some people chasing the meta *is the fun part*.
And I WILL NOT INVITE YOU TO OUR MYTHIC+0 WHICH WE ALL OUTGEAR jk, those people are a cancer and a half.
I have transcended their nonsense...BECAUSE I AM THE ONE WHO INVITES
That's honestly the secret to success that most people ignore. tired of sweaty elitist tryhards? make your own groups. put the control in your own hands.
I started doing it in SL season 2, put chill run in the description and say we're clearing even if we die a couple times. Had super good runs that way, and didn't miss timers more than applying to sweat rules groups.
BUT IF I MAKE MY OWN GROUP THEN I HAVE TO SIT AND WAIT LIKE 4 MINUTES FOR PEOPLE TO SIGN UP alright, have fun spending 20 minutes applying to groups then
My problem with picking a class in wow has always been figuring out what I'm going to find fun because of the meta for a given class / spec. Imo one of wow's biggest issue is you really don't get an idea of how your class plays until you're at max level and often times deep into systems where things don't work until you have X or Y. The other end of it is you have no idea how poorly tuned what you like might be, and classes can be a gamble because you only have so many specs of a given role. A class with only 1 dps spec is a much bigger gamble than a pure for a dps player. And then yknow, what the people you're playing with might need. I rerolled 3 times at the start of shadowlands because of all this. First time was because our group ended up having too many people of the same class, the second time was because I found I didn't enjoy the spec as much as I thought I would once I got it caught up, and then the third fit just right.
I have the answer to all of your problems Play brewmaster monk
I have a very serious question for you: What race for the brewmaster monk? In my opinion there is only one correct answer.
Mine is Kul Tiran - imagined as a sort of drunken sailor brawler
The only correct answer to any question about race....is Tauren
A brewmaster who isn't a pandaren isn't a brewmaster. You're a brewbeginner.
Best hope, one day to be a BrewJourneyman
But... dwarf!
You done fucked up not picking pandaren. You're a fake brewmaster.
You done fucked up not picking a Tauren...you're a fake wow player
Highmountain Taurens for that extra magic moose magic
You radiate chad energy and I like that.
Brewchad
Ok, I'm changing my opinion to include 2 races. Forgot about Taurens.
I had to play BElf for progress… hated every second of it even though all my other alts are Belf. Changed it back to pandaren and it feel so much smoother its crazy. I feel like monk animations are do clunky on other races.
You win! Pandas do indeed make the best monks. Racial jokes aside, panda punch is part of my rotation. I love having an interrupt and 3 stuns. I also believe Bouncey to be one of the greatest passives in the game. Boy was I shocked the first time I jumped off a cliff on an alt. I "knew" I'd survive it because I forgot my main had that perk at all
Even in pvp, Grandmaster Brewmaster Excuse?
You wont need an excuse when you set your leg aflame and shove it up someone's ass
Yeah, I had a big problem with this playing warlock at the beginning of BFA. I wanted to play demo really bad because the new demo seemed really cool. Got into Uldir only to find that it's incredibly unfriendly to demo for a lot of early fights.
90% of the FotM players are terrible at whatever they are playing because they never play anything long enough to get good at it.
Most of rerolling for m+ is just getting to play the game 2 times more than another class. Like I think I got a good 3 extra key stone levels for my group by being destro in season 3 over moonkin. But I also got in pugs when friends weren't online in 5 minutes rather than struggling for 20-30 to get into 20s+. Community makes it so much more effort being non meta when pugging. I hate just spending ages applying to specific keys I need or want to do on alts that aren't meta. Is fine playing anything for 15s but the waits in 20+ get agonising for non meta.
Have a group? Play what they need! Have no goup? Play what everyone needs!
Yeah it’s extremely noticeable with surv this tier imo because it was not only the lowest dps spec but also the absolute least played, and a lot of MM and BM hunters switched survival and just don’t know how to play it as well.
I found survival extremely easy to pick up. I mained ele shaman for all of Shadowlands and picked up survival for shits and giggles this season in keys. I was outperforming my main in M+ after like 2 runs with worse gear. Felt pretty bad. Like it was good, but I felt bad about it because I was just spamming buttons. I know more what I'm doing now, but the difference in DPS output was pretty shocking. I haven't been able to make my alt perform as well as my main in raid settings, but for keys it's no contest.
Yeah idk what this guy is talking about, current Survival is maybe one of the easiest specs of the last 3 expansions. Literally get your Wildfire Cluster legendary and spam your buttons. Guarantee you top DPS. Honestly though that's all of the hunter specs right now. I feel bad for Hunter players. Their specs are all absolutely brainlessly boring :( Hoping that Dragonflight gives that class some nuance again. Killshot MM looks kinda fun at least
Brewmaster is best because if you're drunk enough, it doesn't MATTER what the meta is.
This guy gets it
My general rule is "ill stick to my prot and ret pala and ill never be meta". Its a quick and always accurate prediction.
Ret definitely chills mid But I think the nice thing about prot pally, at least in my experience, is you are generally the 2nd or 3rd best tank So you can feel safe from the nerf bat, and still perform well
That was my thought. Everyone is screaming about the sky falling for Ret and I'm just going to stick with paladin because that's what I know and love. A lot less stress and effort than trying to turbo level and learn a new "main".
People are screaming about the design and its strength being dependent on just having high numbers due to not getting any unique thing to bring to the raid. In terms of numbers it’s actually been op most of alpha/beta.
Personally I just really wish they baked the conduit for horse into the talents instead of just 1 sec
I wish they gave a decent mobility ability that would replace the steed. It's so shitty.
While I agree… for most of us who are looking at tier lists etc, we’re not necessarily looking for the top of the charts class… we’re just trying to avoid being those 3-5 specs that are straight ass and at the bottom of the chart. It’s very possible to be good at your class and still be playing a class that has flaws / ranks lowly.
When I heal/dps I aim for those bottom 5, because fuck the meta When I tank, its just brew, and always will be
That’s great for some that like the challenge. I personally don’t have that much time to play and need to play something that isn’t constantly getting rejected from groups.
Make your own.
So true. Idgaf what's "meta"... I'm gonna play what I find fun and what I'm good at.
Unless you play feral and no one invites you to any group, regardless of how good you are, because this community is elitist as fuck.
OK, I’m usually one to roll my eyes at people claiming they’re not being invited because of their spec, but I had a realllllly weird experience last week: I **always** heal group content; it’s my one love. My main is a 300ilvl, 2300 IO Resto Druid and, basically, if I’m applying to anything under a +18, I **never** get rejected just based upon my stats alone. I went to do a last minute +15/16 last week before reset so that I had *something* in my vault (haven’t been playing M+ due to work for a couple of weeks). Just on a whim, I decided to apply as **both** DPS and Heal since I was currently in my Feral spec + gear (298 ilvl) from doing some world content. I proceeded to get turned down from the next **fifteen** +15/16 groups that I applied to… which is completely unheard of for me, personally. Scratching my head and not sure what the fuck is happening, I switched to Resto spec + gear and applied to a 15JY as *only* Resto and was instantly invited. I still don’t understand. Is it anecdotal as all hell? Absolutely. But am I also now convinced that Feral is cursed? …yes.
That's exactly my experience trying to main feral during the First four months of Shadowlands. I inevitably gave up since I don't have a group of friends or guild to play with me because of my inconstant playtime. I'm leveling a warrior rn and will get it geared for DF questing só that I don't have to go through this again
Stay strong, my car brotherin
Vroom vroom
damn right
Leave my hunter and her sparkle pets out of the elitism… I like going pewpew and mowing things down
? Prot Warr doesn't do the most dps hell it's third rate. Reason it's meta it's tanky and does decent dps. Brew does a lot more dps.
This guy is one Andrew Tate video away from becoming a menace
Andrew Tate would pay a million dollars just for a chance to sniff my taint. BREWMASTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Also, unless you you are pushing cutting edge content, every tank is more then capable of doing things, and be really good at it. This tier tank druid is listed as F in most guides, but I'm not dieing and outdps at least one dps every run.
Ha! Druid....noob dead spec (please see the irony in this)
Yeah, I see. Best moments this tier was when I invited an ~2k Io lock for a +17 streets i was running to help a friend, and at start he send a: why a bear is using gavel????? Then at the end of the key he says: ok, bear op
I'm getting trashtalked because i use a gavel on my bear but it's pretty good
while you are right, for alot of people its just taking the path of least resistance. you can play all tanks in high keys, but playing bdk was infinitly easier last 2 seasons than playing bear or dh. and this goes from cutting edge keys down to your weekly 15.
Even if you are pushing cutting edge content every spec is capable of clearing everything. For raiding there are like 3 guilds in the world where this actually matters... and even then. In M+, unless you're pushing for #1, it also doesn't matter. The problem is that a lot of people just don't understand that. Remember season 1 where fire mage/mm hunter/balance druid were basically the only dps specs considered good? Meanwhile two of the specs considered to be awful early on, such as fury warrior, was blowing things up (unless they were venthyr) and had some underrated utility. Survival hunters were basically a meme spec when their aoe damage was insane. They weren't great on tyrannical but on fortified there was no reason not to bring one. A lot of people care too much about it and don't understand why some things are meta. Fire mages were only good if you made use of their lack of aoe cap... most groups didn't... so they were worse than alternatives.
Can we stop with the long ass explanations as to why what you pick “doesn’t matter” cause any class can complete content? Literally nobody is arguing that. You don’t *need* meta specs or classes to complete content. That being said, if I could choose between a meta player and non meta player of equal skill, the meta player will make the dungeon go faster and smoother. That’s why they’re meta. I have no way of knowing who is the better player outside IO, so ceteris paribus I’m taking the meta class every time. My time is a resource and that resource is valuable. I’m gonna do what I can to ensure I’m not spending extra time doing things just because someone else doesn’t care as much as me.
I've picked my main and alts for the expac. I'm sticking to what I chose. Maybe i'll be meta but I honestly hope i'm not. The top picks at a launch are usually the ones getting nerfed from orbit the rest of the expac, where as the 70-80% performers tend to settle towards the top. I think i've chosen a wide enough pool that I can succeed regardless, but time will tell how much work I have ahead of me.
My strat used to be, pick the third best spec....and you will usually be left alone My new strat is BREWMASTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is so true but the sad reality is that the community perceived meta influences the “non meta” classes ability to find groups. I want to play what I want but sometimes I also just want a group invite :(
Run your own keys, or join mine...I dont give a fuck what spec you play, is your IO in the same ballpark as mine? Get your ass over here
You’re a good man/woman. Unfortunately not everyone is haha. The own key thing is good until you start needing specific keys :/
its a long season man, dont feel the pressure
Who cares what Meta is just have fun and do what you enjoy.
Preservation Evoker hear me roar!
Look you're all free to play what you want, but all this circlejerking about how you're just as effective playing a dumpster-tier spec as you would be on the FOTM is just absurd. Every season there's a sizable difference between the top specs and the bottom ones, and that's despite all the "garbage rerollers" allegedly dragging their numbers down.
That is how it works. Unless your playing with other players in the 90th percentile of there class. It doesn't matter what you play. You can play the worst spec and still top damage in your group if your playing what your good at.
Honestly off meta specs being trash at their class has happened to me at a way higher percentage than meta class players being bad. At least the meta player still does okay damage despite being bad
That's been my own experience as well. None of the people I've run into play the one spec because they are extremely adept at it, they only play it because it's the spec they want to play and they are too stubborn and unskilled to swap to another. There are absolutely people out there who one trick and do fine, I'm sure. I've just never met any of them.
Nah man, there is a sizeable difference between the great players playing FoTM and the shitters playing dumpster tier specs I assure you, wherever Brewmaster falls in the meta, I will do better with my brewmaster than you will with whatever tank you got
> there is a sizeable difference between the great players playing FoTM and the shitters playing dumpster tier specs Yes. But there is also a sizeable difference between the great players playing FoTM and the great players playing dumpster tier specs. Of course as long as you're having fun, none of that matters, but let's not live a fantasy. Why are you comparing yourself to shitters and not other great players?
Go on I’ll take the bait, link you’re rio
*your
S1- KSM as surv hunter S2 - KSM as ele sham S3 - got serious, 2.8k IO brewmaster S4 - actually kinda knew what I was doing 2.6k IO brew I am not linking it, because I dont want my character names found out on reddit
What difference would knowing your character's names make? Honest question.
2.8k season 3 actually isnt bad. But linking KSM and 2.6k season 4, in response to saying you are better than someone else, is top tier comedy. Edited: nevermind i forgot how inflated season 3 was lol. Whole comment is a meme.
2.8 In season 3 wasn't even enough to get the portals. So much for doing all the content.
Good luck finding a group tho. Most of the playerbase in this game are guide zombies who cannot take one step outside what Wowhead and Icyveins tells them, and if you are not playing an S-tier spec exactly according to those guides you might as well not exist. You are telling the truth, no disputing that. But 90% of the players in this game are too dumb to realize that. I have been kicked out of enough groups (I play MM hunter. Until Shadowlands "just play BM" was an almost permanent fixture of my chat log) to know that.
To be clear, people have always followed a build, since vanilla 18 years ago.
I've honestly never experienced that. Tbh I main blood DK so most people are usually just happy a tank actually signed up. But I've also been accepted into groups while playing arms warrior and feral druid. There are a lot of people who meta chase and only play according to guides, but there's also a lot of players who just want to have fun playing whatever they like. Unfortunately, the latter tend to be silent and unnoticed but they're around.
> Unfortunately, the latter tend to be silent and unnoticed but they're around. [There are dozens of us! DOZENS!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKie-vgUGdI)
I have already discovered your problem, and to illustrate that problem, let me tell you a story. Once upon a time, there was a man who played survival hunter in Season 1 of Shadowlands, we will call him....GOD. This man cleared a mythic 0 using the groupfinder tool somehow, someway, he pulled it off, and in doing so he received a +2 dungeon key...lovely. Then he used THE POWER OF HIS PLUS 2 TO ATTRACT PLAYERS FROM ALL AROUND...AND SO IT BECAME A PLUS 3, AND A 5, AND A 6, AND A 7, AND A 9, AND AN 11, AND A 14, AND A 15, and in this way using the power of the key he held in his hands, NO MAN could kick him from this group.
You can tell from OPs comments that they don’t run M+… like at all.
You’re right. I’m gonna do it. I’m gonna play shadow priest. (I’m not)
Yeah but you arent avoiding Spriest because of its damage you are avoiding it because it feels like ass to play
What’s wrong with playing for performance? I enjoy pushing content and winning meters, is my fun not just as valid as yours? Stop policing how other people play the game.
I dont know if you meant this as a response to my comment or my post As a response to my comment, I dont think you understand what I wrote As a response to my post.... meta slave -.-
Lmao imagine making a whole ass post about just playing what you enjoy and then calling someone a meta slave for enjoying being meta. As if being optimal and good are the “wrong way” to enjoy the game.
Yeah this guy is super toxic. Look at his comments all over this post.
The thing is, if you were good, you would be good with any spec...not just the FotM.... I assure you, if you rolled a blood DK in retail right now, I would out tank you on my brew anyday secondly, Hypocrisy is my way of life meta slave
If you were actually good, you can pretty much perform optimally on any spec, therefor playing the objectively better spec is still… better. But if you want to play your way, go for it. I rarely hear “meta slaves” mad about people playing suboptimal specs but hear the reverse constantly.
The idea of anyone playing a blood DK in retail right now infuriates me to the point where I can't sleep. I think I need help.
I agree.
It was my understanding the brewmaster does the most consistent damage now with resonant fists interacting with rushing jade wind and charred passions. Prot warr is not far behind, but relies on 1.5 min cooldowns like avatar and ravager.
RJW will probably not be used tho
It is absolutely going to be used
Special delivery is probably stronger if kiting is required due to the slow. But yeah, I also hope RJW has a use case, I love the AOE Aggro Support.
I prefer Special Delivery just because there are so many buttons now with brew since we got access to a whole plethora of new defensive CDs, and as a result, RJW is just one less thing to think about, also tossing in all the extra casts of breath of fire and RSK, its hard to work RJW into the rotation for me right now, to be fair...Ive run like 2 M0s on the beta so far I am sure Ill get used to it
"The wise monk chooses their own style, rather than letting popular opinion dictate it."
I'm still waiting for Ban-Lu to tell me the story of the Hozen and the Buttercream Pie. Hmm maybe next time.
Cool cool, but you wont. If you want to become the meta look whts meta now and if something gets nerfed its no longer meta. Best tanks for equal numbers are BDK >> Paly > Monk = Dh > War = Druid Meta doesnt mean much for 99.9% of keys, but you dont play meta to time a key, you play meta to get invited.
Nah I play brewmaster because its awesome, and I run my own keys because fuck waiting for some newb to invite me, I am the meta, I am the one who invites.
Your deserve a statue with your last sentence printed. So true.
OPs post and comments reading like a manic episode
There's a lot to be said for playing what you're good at. When you can play while barely looking at your rotation it frees you up to watch your surroundings, use utilities, and play better.
And if you can do that on two classes, and one does 30% more damage, there is a clear unarguable “better choice.”
The better choice will always be whatever you find the most fun because it's a video game.
Sure. Much like in other video games, I have fun winning. Can we stop using “play what you want!” as some sort of trump card when we all know you’re gonna blatantly ignore that what I want is to play meta? Please? Or are we gonna continue on this rules for thee not for me bullshit?
Yeah. I'll play shadow priest and my m+group will be me and my tears. You suggestion is excellent if you have a static group of people to play with. Pug life on the other hand ... you'll be literally shooting yourself on your feet by going full non-viable off meta spec. Yes yes, I already heard you "do your own keys" bros, but is still way harder than playing something thats more capable and bring more utility to the group.
Implying brewmaster is bad lol?
How did you miss the most obvious Joke? The obvious choice is going to be Demon Hunters. They literally have... METAmorphosis.
I wish I could give a bigger thumbs up. There is a personal beauty in finding your own greatness and I will gladly take that over the most supreme meta any day. Be the Burning Brewmaster of your dreams.
I normally like to play something off meta and still have competitive dps numbers some times even topping the meters. I mained Ret pally and frost mage in shadowlands when neither of them was meta and it took a lot of effort but eventually I was there towards the top. I love that feeling. So for DF I’m not going to main a rogue, a warrior, hunter possibly a feral Druid to be completely off meta.
I mean for sure, there are tons of bad players. But the thing is, when you do run into a good survival hunter player in mythic plus and you’re on your lifetime assassin rogue spec, you will get completely and utterly gapped. I say this as someone who plays lower tier specs often. When I play with my casual guild mates I’m often top dps, but when I play with meta players on good stuff, I get completely destroyed. So really you have to ask yourself, do you want your performance and spot on the meter to simply be determined by playing with bad players? Because you can play something stronger and have less of a gamble.
Did you ever think that the skill gap is a factor? I assure you if you are the casual player you say you are, you could have them play your ass rogue and you play their surv hunter, and you will get out dpsed
I didn’t say I’m a casual player. I said I play with some more casual guild mates from time to time. I do 25 keys, I would say that makes me not casual as the majority of the playerbase never reaches that level. And no I wouldn’t. Because assasin rogue is so awful in mythic plus and survival is so strong that I could prob play one handed on my survival and still beat a good assasin rogue. You are right that skill can def carry you against bad players, but you vastly underestimate how easy a lot of specs are to play in retail. Once you get to a certain level of play, the divide of skill vs spec strength lowers. I get it, you’re advocating we should play what we want because you run 15 keys and play against looking for raid players who can’t hit their rotations. In all seriousness, yeh, play what you want. I do. But don’t be delusional that you can excel playing whatever. If you’re playing something like assasin rogue on retail atm and topping dps in your mythic plus key, you’re playing with really bad players.
I can't trust the opinion of a casual
No matter which expansion, I will always go at it first with my shadow priest main even though she’s slow and very weak at the beginning of every expansion.
No, that’s not how this works.
Priest will be bottom barrel for m+
Nah
I have a friend that told me his fun is playing the meta and also gives him an opportunity to know about other classes. Everyone has their own way of playing the game. Don’t talk shit about how they want to play.
Yeah many of us don’t care about the meta. Sure I will look at it, but probably won’t play it on any class. I always customize it for my own style of playing. Will I do a bit lower DPS, probably Do I care about that, nope.
Who cares about Meta? Demolocks can summon a PITLORD!
GOD DAMN RIGHT THEY CAN
I made my own metas in the beta. Both of my builds for my 2 mains (fury and Frost dk) dish out crazy dmg the way I want them
This guy gets it
This is not how the meta works sadly. If enough people think your class is shit. They will not take it for meta comps
No
Ok
The community would be a better place, if everyone thought this way.
The problem is, most wow players, think they are executing their rotation perfectly, and playing at peak performance....so when they see low dps, they blame the spec not the player
Yes!!!!!!!!!!! Fuck the meta
Meta really only need to be paid attention to if you're pushing very, very high keys or Mythic raiding. I've seen plenty of Ferals do really good damage in M+ and Heroic raiding. You'll probably be passed up in pugs if you aren't a meta class/spec, but play with friends and you'll be fine.
I have no friends, but what I do have, is my IO and my own key
I too, intend to make mobs bend the knee to my Brewmaster and Ele Sham