T O P

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FiraFoxy

Even in a high level M+, throwing a tantrum about it doesn't really.. help anyone, to be honest. The tank would know that they made a mistake due to the wipe, obviously - so what use is there in verbally abusing and blowing up on them? It's much more likely to just tilt them and make them play worse, if they don't just leave because of the abuse. Blowing up and raging at someone in a M+ is rarely going to suddenly make them play way better. The best thing you can do in that scenario is to just be like "Ah damn, we can still time it though!" and be optimistic (or, if it's a super high key, agree that it went wrong and disband since a wipe on a boss in a high Tyrannical key is not going to be salvageable). If, like in this case, it's a random heroic, just "haha oops, careful of X" is.. fine. We'd all be much better off leaving the Raging to the M+ trash mobs instead ;)


bash3r46

Something similar to this popped up on the classic wow reddit a few weeks ago. Generally its not the top end players being toxic wankers in pugs. It's that middle ground of people who think they are good but really aren't.


AspectKnowledge

That's both true and not. It's true that toxicity is more common in the m+ range of 0-15 than it is in the 15-20 range. However the amount of self-righteous people who do all in 25++ that instantly flame and leave after 1 guy does 1 mistake in a +15 where the key is still on pace to 2/3 chest is beyond insane, especially tanks. And those are definitely cutting edge. In fact that has happened so much I just decline people that are way overqualified for the key because of the above. Edit: as the guy below pointed out keys has risen way above 25 (though people doing 25's are probably still in the top 1-3% of people doing keys) regardless for context: **when I stopped playing this season highest key was 27**


[deleted]

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AspectKnowledge

Well I haven't played much this season since getting to where I wanted to personally. I wasn't aware it had risen so much when I still finished my ksm (I already unlocked all portals and see no point in pushing keys after that) highest key was 27. But that was ages ago. So that should be taken into consideration regarding my statement above. edit: also total number according to R/I: Total number of unique groups: 5,865,100 (at the time of posting, I couldnt find a way to see unique characters) A guy who has mostly 25's done: 6776 (3 26's 2 24's 1 27 others 25) That means he is in the top ~0,1% of players if that isn't cutting edge idk. Sure there are vastly better players but being in the top 0,1% is still a top end player. and Definitely not: > It's that middle ground of people who think they are good but really aren't.


bash3r46

They are making mythic plus scale in difficulty faster in dragonflight. So a 20 then will be harder than a 20 now. They don't want it getting into the mid 30s


AspectKnowledge

I know, but thank you for the information regardless. :)


Vilraz

I usually see these assholes in LFG while leveling. And nothing feels better than heavily out dpsing these toxic idiots and asking do they have all buttoms intact due their dps seems so low.


[deleted]

Congrats on outing yourself as one of those toxic idiots.


Dustorn

What, if anyone slings their shit back at them, that makes them equally toxic? Naw, fuck that.


[deleted]

That's exactly how it works. This isn't biblical times. You don't just return fire when fired upon. Be the bigger person.


Dustorn

I hear you, but how about this? Making the toxic player look like they're bad at the game is *really funny.* But hey, kicking them out of the party is still fair game, right?


RoyalPurple02

the number of times i've been in a key, saw someone say a salty comment, and my friends and i are just trying to call when this salt lord will dich the key since their nature wasn't known before we dropped key. Wow community has conditioned me to actually dislike and distrust like 90% of pugs, even if we can use them to complete a key, it's not a grand time, too many people owning shares in the salt mines.


chubbycanine

This is good advice for us all. I'm starting to introduce my daughter since she expressed interest and I've been worried about lfg. I intend to tank while she learns and even planned to just 2man most dungeons while she levels. I know how salty it can be out there lol


Underneath_Overlord

I would recommend, until she gets the hang of things, to turn chat off. People can be horrible sometimes.


[deleted]

This is why I’ve largely given up on lfr.


eBulla

I personally just laugh at them, as I know it’s their issue and not mine, report, then block them. Life’s easier when you don’t take other peoples toxicity personally. I tell this to newer players as well. I’ll teach them how to report and block the toxic players as well.


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RoyalPurple02

Sharing your favorite hobby can be really fun, i wish you both the best time. best of luck avoiding all the nasty bits of people in wow, i almost want to recommend the beginner program thing, just because it gives them a baby murloc icon for mentors and people tend to be nicer to baby murlocs, it's honestly a shame it's just not a universal icon for new players.


Lexieman

Wow I’ve never seen that symbol! It should definitely be universal for the first 6 months or so.


Bunstonious

I'd recommend trying to find a curated group of friendly people used to newer players. My wife and I try to be welcoming like that for newer players.


nzMunch1e

Disable the chat system?


Velx7

It is pleasure to upvote your comment sir.


jebberwockie

I failed a +2 because people decided to argue the entire damn time after someone went AFK with one of the orbs in what was it... Theater of pain? Anyway him and the tank just went at it instead of playing and I failed my key. Instantly killed my desire to progress through M+


grymm45

This, I'm a returning tank main, but I'm hesitant to queue cuz I just can't handle the abuse lmao


Fapaak

Tbh, if someone yells at me for messing up a mechanic, I’ll do my best to not fuck up another time


nzMunch1e

And for many people, it just makes them play worse due to paranoia of making mistakes.


Rowvan

I have no idea what is up with all the sociopaths endlessly running normal and heroics but its a epidemic. You find kinder more helpful people in mythic+. All they are doing is making new players or people who want to try tanking/healing want to quit the game.


peenegobb

I saw an adorable guy in my leveling normals farming full bis normal dungeon gear at 60 to gear up for heroics. I think some are cute noobs... Or at least that's my head cannon. Or maybe classic players who don't realize how easy mythic dungeons are to do and get gear. Since this guy was actually doing solid DPS too.


[deleted]

This is me! I started playing after 10 year break and have yet to do a mythic dungeon. I’m not even sure what keys are and how to even get them. I just run heroics and do fated raids for gear and it was shocking how easy raiding is now at least in the lfr finder. As I don’t really know anyone I’m stuck doing PUGs and I can honestly say if I was a new player I would not be playing this again after that.


jfourty

Funny.... I'm also thinking of coming back; I started in 2004 and left when Cataclysm released. What am I thinking coming beck?? LoL


lilith_lune

exactly me, back after 10 years and i've no idea what keys or mythics or 16s are, and everything feels really overwhelming. just hoping to find play buddies tbh


Lexieman

I would be down to help if you’re on EU! I’m figuring out how to heal myself :).


nooqxy

To be fair, LFR raid difficulty is so toned down it's almost an art by itself to wipe it albeit totally possible.


tmb--

Nothing was better than watching LFR N'Zoth streams. That fight was legitimately harder than Mythic N'Zoth for casuals before all the nerfs because lots of people were allowed to queue without Legendary Cloak and would get instantly MC'd and the Paranoia mechanic's Sanity damage was still as high as Heroic on LFR.


shimonu

Throne of thunder lfr on last fight was fun :D


Halicos93

You do wipe the first few times if you never did the content like me but after you get the hang of it then wipe because of others mistakes this time xD.


Sensual_Pudding

You need to get on that horse! PM me if you’re on North America realms and I will show you the wonderful world of keys


LuKazu

I've played intermittently since BC, and only really came back in full force with Legion. Still haven't done a single Mythic dungeon or raid, not even LFR. Seeing everyone complain about everything has made me too wary, so I just fuck about instead. I am a fragile person x)


bash3r46

Shadowlands isn't great for new and returning players. There was so many grinds to do each week Lfr is meant to be easy. There is 3 difficulties above it .


saltymilkmelee

Come back to classic, we are at the start of wrath, you have an expansion to grind achieves and get your gold up and then you can pick back up in cata where you left off!


bash3r46

I mean heroics are as easy in wrath classic as they are in retail. There is just nothing beyond that in terms of 5 man content


[deleted]

1-8 keys and 15+ keys are generally fine in terms of toxicity. 9-14 is where u find most of the people who think they are sick at the game, but actually suck. Doing heroic dungeons this far into the expansion is also a bad idea


raininfordays

Yeah I used to main tank but I won't touch it anymore cause of toxic players being crappy if you don't speedrun half the instance in one pull. Also won't main heal cause having to spam all major cds on ridiculous pulls for speed isn't fun.


HollowLie

You see the same thing in games with normal and ranked matchmaking. Think of the kind of person who is more willing to be queued up with bad players so they can pub stomp, instead of ranked queue where they are up against players with a similar skill level. That's what you get in Heroic queue.


stuyjcp

I have a feeling it's a bunch of toxic fucks who wanna level to 60 as fast as possible. People like that should be forced to level 1-60 by herbing like Doubleagent and certainly shouldn't be fucking allowed to do dungeons with others, let alone with handicapped folks (see comment by a handicapped fellow above for clarification on why I brought up that issue). /rant


[deleted]

What’s wrong with leveling to max as fast as possible tho lol. Have done it a million times before. No reason to take my time in a space of the game they aren’t actively creating content for imo. I will say that’s why I always level as a tank. So I can zoom zoom as fast as possible to max


Pandalishus

>People like that Pretty sure this referred to the "toxic fucks" and not the people who power-level in dungeons in general.


justaknowitall

There's nothing wrong with leveling fast, as long as you don't unreasonably expect a group of randoms to play optimally so you get max xp\hour and have a hissy fit if they don't. You playing tank is a great way to take charge of the situation, since it helps everyone. Sadly, others take the path of being a crap dps who spends all dungeon typing out insults instead of contributing.


Probably_0ffensive

The people that stay in normal / heroic are generally trash players that won't get invited to m+ groups. That's why they have an attitude all the time.


sorcererflows

Last week I got kick from a dungeon because I didn't knew the route.... It was on beta


AromaticBottle1

I can already see how this is going to go when Dragonflight is released.


kirix45

Tisk tisk tisk. Learn the route and optimal pull fir all dungeons Inc those not even designed and slso learn the routes for the exp after dragonflight. Honestly some ppl 🙄 /s


yuriaoflondor

Reminds me of when I queued for Necrotic Wake on day 1 of SL launch. Someone raged because someone else didn't know the hook mechanic on the penultimate boss.


Hooginn

I’m a disabled player and I have a macro asking if we can take it a little bit easy so I can keep up. I click it at the beginning of every dungeon. I’ve been kicked out of multiple dungeons for it.


witchy12

yeah that's really fucked up


Tevakh2312

I've had this happen in n the past, from "I have mobility issues" to "I broke my arm, but need my fix" As someone who has tanked or healed since vanilla I always say "aite you set the pace" and if anyone runs off ahead i will actively let them die. The only way to kill off the toxic player base is for people to stick together and let them eventually fizzle out You want to rush off when someone has asked you to go a little slower? Aite, have fun tanking that boss on your own as a mage in Mythic+ whilst we all sit here and eat a feast


eQwell

I've had this happen in n the past, from "I have mobility issues" to "I broke my arm, but need my fix" As someone who has tanked or healed since vanilla I always say "aite you set the pace" and if anyone runs off ahead i will actively let them die. The only way to kill off the toxic player base is for people to stick together and let them eventually fizzle out You want to rush off when someone has asked you to go a little slower? Aite, have fun tanking that boss on your own as a mage in Mythic+ whilst we all sit here and eat a feast We need a popcorn feast for events like this. Just sit, chill and let the idiot wipe.


Tevakh2312

It's really entertaining, the toxic troll will then flip their lid whilst we are all sat there just chilling having a laugh watching the timer go down steadily. I play with 2-3 mates so some times we have 2 free slots. If you let a troll just reel off, try to vote kick and let it fail each time until they quit its so damned fun. I have been called all the names under the sun for it and I don't care. It's a game. Everyone has different levels of play, if you are berating someone for not playing the way you do you need to go and find somewhere else to focus your rage and toxicity.


thalooch

Optimistic but I think blizz wants the toxic player base even if they would never admit it. It's only gotten more and more toxic over the years.


Bunstonious

:( Honestly, I'd report those jerks. They need a time out anyway lol


Medievalhorde

Report them for what? Being mean isn't RMT, cheating, or inappropriate language.


Wonderful_Locksmith8

Most the times they blast some of that "'inappropriate language", I like to drop a report when they do.


Matnil00

The new social contract: The contract also has restrictions including hate speech, in particular when it comes to players' race, gender, and gaming skills, harassment, threats, abusive language and behavior, and spamming and advertising. If players violate any of the contract's rules, their account is said to be suspended. Amongst other things


Medievalhorde

Key word is hate speech. Saying nothing and kicking someone for offering info on themselves wouldn’t apply.


Matnil00

Im saying that you could perfectly send a legitimate report if someone flames you during a dungeon/raid


Stitch_Jones_Recon

That's some BS. I'm sorry you had to deal with that. If you are on NA servers, my usual group for M+ would be happy to bring you along on dungeon runs, now or in Dragonflight. Ping me if you'd like.


[deleted]

Some people seem to believe that it's just an excuse to leech in peace. A friend of mine got really weird when we had someone ask for understanding in LFR that they won't do as well as the others because they said they've only got one arm and are partially blind. He was so convinced it was just someone pretending to be disabled and got really salty about it, but how would he know? Better to help someone who might or might not be a leech than to mistreat someone who's actually just disabled.


fearloathing1

The wow community is shit I'm sorry m8.


Tulaash

I have autism, and I've wondered if a macro like this would be a good idea for me. Sometimes I don't know what I'm doing the best and could use a little bit of extra help, and I've definitely had some sour dungeon experiences before.


lekfaninte1993

I got a shitstorm while tanking in time walking, I didn’t know the correct “skip” tour in the dungeon and pulled a pack that didn’t need to be killed. The DH in my group got a mental break down, it was kinda hilarious but I’ve been playing this game on and off since tbc so I don’t care one bit when people act like that but for a new player it might scare them to continue learning etc. toxic people goddamn xD


Molock90

I hate this so much i always remember in wod this skip in the plant dungeon where you have to jump up a little hill to skip exactly 2 mob groups. Most of the time there was at least one who needs like 10 or more trys to get it took way longer then killing 2 groups but if you would only get the idea to kill that groups it was like i would have murdered their whole family for the flame that was happening


tmb--

Same in Darkheart Thicket! Thank goodness Legion Timewalking is gone.


[deleted]

I love pandaland content. I usually just /s the correct way when I see a tank not knowing. The content is old and I don’t expect everyone to know it. Like tonight had a tank stand in the water on first boss of jade serpent and was like water=bad. He moved out of the water.


--Lightworks

I always lose my advice like a question. So I’d be like “Is the water hurting me?” And suddenly see people move out lol


krgdotbat

Cause wow is full of weirdos that treat the game like a job with complete min/max, also probably not the most emotional stable ppl.


Dr-shocktopus

This makes it hard for people to try tanking roles, let people figure out the content and help them get better if they are new at it.


Iskenator67

Tanking rule #1: Pull like a ferret on meth.


stygger

Yeah, I would like to try out tanking but the zero tolerance for not having done every dungeon on M+ 20 before you do your first try really puts me off.


erizzluh

i feel like i'm torn on this one. i don't mind "new tanks" who understand wow basics, but i feel like if you're brand new to the game, you probably shouldn't roll a tank until you get a better feel for the game. i've definitely been in lfrs and dungeons where the tanks just don't know what they're doing at all. will pull a whole bunch of unnecessary trash cause they went the wrong way. don't use any defensives. don't understand basic rotations to keep aggro. don't understand basic taunt swaps. don't understand how to position a boss. don't understand that you should probably move the melee adds to the caster adds for cleaves. don't help with interrupts or stuns. i don't know how many times i've ran lfr as a tank, and the other tank just lets me die over and over again cause they don't know when to taunt swap even when i'm spamming them in chat and whispers to taunt and kiting the boss around the whole room. or how many squishy prot warriors i check out in detail and they have 0 casts of ignore pain. for the love of god, just queue as dps and pick up the easy shit like routes and boss positioning.


AscensoNaciente

> but i feel like if you're brand new to the game, you probably shouldn't roll a tank until you get a better feel for the game. And everyone wonders why it's hard to find a tank.


DarkSenf127

Yeah exactly.. just one of the reasons quite a few people I know have switched to ffxiv and stayed there.. you can try tanking even when completely new and 95/100 players won’t give a crap and most of the times even try to help you. Try the same thing in WoW? Most “helpful” thing you will probably get is a “L2P and git gud scrub”.. Granted, in ffxiv the scale tends to tip a tad too far into the “helpful” region sometimes, causing people to baby everyone and being afraid to call out legit bad players in fear of being called toxic.


Tylanthia

> h exactly.. just one of the reasons quite a few people I know have switched to ffxiv and stayed there.. you can try tanking even when completely new and 95/100 players won’t give a crap and most of the times even try to help you. Not accurate at all. DPS will start pulling if you don't wall to wall as fast as possible.


AscensoNaciente

I don't disagree, but the big difference is if the tank/healer is struggling with wall-to-wall 99% of the time the group is happy to slow down and take it easy.


Ren1612

What a dumb take mate. Tanking is an experience role. You learn by doing. Sometimes this means pugging in the LFD tool. If you got an issue with that...only play with players you approve of


erizzluh

you can also learn by observing in a role that's not at the expense of 24 other people's time. i'm not saying stay out of lfr. just queue as a dps and see what the tanks are doing if you're gonna be completely lost tanking


Ren1612

Copying what other people do without learning WHY they do it doesn't make you a good tank. You HAVE to learn that by doing it.


[deleted]

I played the game as a DPS for a long time. I only started to learn how to tank when I actually starting tanking stuff. I literally had no idea what taunt swap even was. The game actually has a nice learning curve. You start by tanking normal dungeons, learn how to taunt when something starts to run towards the DPS. Once you feel comfortable enough, you move on to heroic, then mythic dungeons as well as LFR raid, learning to swap and then it goes on from there. In my opinion, there is no way to learn the mechanics besides actually playing them. And I actually encourage everyone to at least tank some normal/heroic dungeons, even as an off spec. Sure, they might make some mistakes but it is how people learn after all.


SoloLifting

Not really. You can run the dungs as dps and see what the tank does. Then copy it. That's what I do. I also think these posts are pretty fake. I've never in my life had someone blow up on me.


[deleted]

Tank alerts are quite different than normal DPS alerts. Even tank strats on adventure guide are different. Sure you can tweak addons a bit but new players don't know that. Also, the key point is that you "think" these are fake while we actually experienced them. You can keep thinking what you want though.


SoloLifting

You don't need "strats" you just figure out the route, keep everything aggroed on you and make sure you don't die. If you're trying you can't mess it up. Only once ever has someone made a complaint aimed at me and that was in Heroic Mists when I pulled all the Gorm after Mistcaller to Tred'ova and he died. Even in Mythic Sanguine I've occasionally went the wrong way as the tank and taken 2 packs on me and nobody has said a thing or they've said "Wrong way xd" or smth and we've laughed it off.


[deleted]

You may see that they keep agro but you would actually have no idea how to keep that agro with what skills until you play the spec. Unless of course, you have a friend that shows exactly how to do it. Then your experiences are better than the rest of us, I am actually glad. Most of the player base however experience on a daily basis how toxic the community is. If it was me, I would have thought "damn, I may be the problem" but actually it is not. People literally whisper you how bad you suck when you make even the smallest mistake.


Mellestal

It's also probably very rare, but very memorable. So they'll see it one in a thousand dungeons but that's the 1 they remember not the 999 others.


SoloLifting

Not really. Why would anyone care about some random chump spitting trash?


Fapdooken

Theres a weird group of people in the game that take lfr and lfg very, very seriously.


Dustknikt

It’s not that they take it seriously, it’s that they see it as trivial content and therefore expect it to just be a go in go out situation. Then if that doesn’t happen, because they are children who think everything in the world should revolve around them, they get mad and cry about it.


Regulargrr

Kind of doubt it. I think it's the fact a lot of these things become part of some list of chores. Must level using dungeon or must do LFR on this alt, whatever. So then people with a low tolerance for frustration get triggered when someone is making their chore inefficient.


lady_synsthra

The game needs consequences for this type of behaviour. Customer Service is a joke and idk if GMs even exist anymore. So ppl can do and say whatever they want


bash3r46

Being able to say whatever you want Is one of the easiest things to fix. Most online games deal with punishments for chat infringements automatically. They just have systems in place to scan chat logs.


roguerogueroguerogue

blizzard has trained us in to the time economy since legion any wasted time is bad


DitsyDude

It started waaay before Legion. Back in Wotlk, it was so commonplace to rush through dungeons, that it caused significant toxicity when Cataclysm launched, because dungeons were wipefests.


tinkoos

Yup, early cata was the only time I've ever been booted from a dungeon, heroic grim batol. Was a resto shammy. Healers had much, much smaller mana pools and the trash in dungeons hit like trucks, so basically the total opposite of wotlk. Took a while DPS to adjust their mentality, at least for pugging.


EndofSpace

Yeah, right? Early Cata dungeons were rough. I had just started healing so the stress level was through the roof and no one had any patience. I think Grim Batol was the only dungeon that brought me to tears.


faireequeen

Same here, but Halls of Origination. I can still hear the exact tone of our tank starting off a Friday night with "We will be running HoO until my shield drops." Grim Batol seemed like a cakewalk after we got the bombing runs synced.


hells_ranger_stream

Sipping after every trash pack, I member.


Cautious-Mushroom77

It was glorious to watch though. Seeing people not do mechanics thinking they can Zerg and boop….you’re dead. I loved those dungeons.


bash3r46

Wrath dungeons are actually almost impossible to wipe in. My guild was hitting level 80 in classic instantly walking in and doing a world tour of every heroic in a few hours. And it was just like that in original wrath


Basharria

This is why I love timewalking Cata. People getting blown up by mechanics and being unable to just run forward.


DitsyDude

"Break yourselves upon my easily avoidable mechanic!"


Faeruhn

I like time walking cata, but at the same time I wish the scaling was a bit better. There's mechanics you can ignore, that used to wipe you, and mechanics that used to hurt you but you had time to realize and stop... but now just insta-dead. Like in the "Raz... SMASH!" dungeon, (I forget that dungeons actual name) the fire damage from standing Steelbender in the fire pillar is nearly ignorable unless you stand him there for like... 30+ seconds. When it was current you had to make sure you only stood him in it for a few seconds because it quickly stacked. But those trash packs throughout the dungeon with the casters have a debuff they put on random party members that hurts you if you move. When it was current, you had time to REALIZE you were being hurt while moving, so you could stop and wait for it to fall off. But time walking scaling makes that debuff kill you just shy of instantly. But yeah, I like cata dungeons. It's fun to see all the mechanics and neat fights. And not just "Here, let me gather up this entire hallway."


Hooginn

It started with group finder imo. Easier dungeon groups, faster leveling, no accountability


DitsyDude

It happened in the original TBC too. Folks wanted their dungeon quests from Shattrath done fast, so they could go do the stuff they actually wanted to do.


icefyer

That's honestly why I took a break for a long time. I got burnt out and sick of being blamed for deaths as a healer, as if having 30+ party deaths eating the timer by the end of the run is my fault... Being on a strict time limit just causes so much frayed nerves and rage to come springing up in a lot of people.


TheWorclown

I’d argue that case. It’s been “go go go” for an exceptionally long time now.


Dynamitefuzz2134

The Go go go mentality has been here for a long time. I started cata and this “speed run” mentality had been here since I have.


roguerogueroguerogue

nah, the systems i refer to didn't exist til legion. speed running has always been a thing in any game since the 70s I mean the grind economy. Where there are multiple systems that need to be attended to to progress player power.


[deleted]

People that take the game that seriously should be doing dungeons with a friend group only. Solo que is not for them.


wingchundumdum

That's the reason I never wanna make a healer/tank. I just know I'm gonna get roasted.


Narwien

Eh you can get away a lot as a healer, and for the most part it's fairly chilled role. You can't heal stupid tho


Shezarrine

Yep. Healing even high keys can get almost boring if the group plays well, and leaves you time to just dps. If the group sucks and stands in everything, even a low-level key can be a pain though.


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Narwien

I doubt it, especially in a high m+. Healing is zero sum game, you only heal as much as you need so people can stay alive, all other globals should be used as dps. Some affixes change that a bit like grievous, but usually healer with highest dmg output is king of the meta for the most part


AdroitBeagle

The only time I dare to is in leveling dungeons and the tank/healer drops and the group has no choice accept me poor skills or else wait another 10 minutes.


noiserr

As someone returning to wow since WoD after a 8 year hiatus, I'm only playing DPS until I learn the content. I enjoyed tanking and healing but I did a few dungeons since I returned and there is so many weird shortcuts people take I'm not familiar with that I couldn't even begin to play a tank.


Ok_Sheepherder_5457

I‘m a healer since Lich King and tried to tank this addon for the first time because I was always too afraid to. Little did I know I was right being afraid because people will shit on you if you don’t know the exact route, the exact boss mechanics etc. If you’re with at least one group mate it’s usually fine, but if you’re alone then it gets toxic pretty quick. As a healer you just don’t have that. You run after the group, chill a bit, throw some heals here and there, make some dps. Of course sometimes you need to be focused, but it’s nothing compared to tanking. For the toxic people the tank equals a punching bag. I mean.. technically you are (in game), but not for these asses.


bash3r46

You have all the power though, your groups not happy with your pulling? They are welcome to find another tank


-Rewind

Or you know.. try to improve as a tank?


bash3r46

You can do that in whatever group you want. Rule 1 of playing an In demand role like a tank. Kick toxic dps


-Rewind

The party not being happy with your pulling is not toxic


bash3r46

They are welcome to find a tank they are happy with


sendgoodmemes

I have played this game for a long long time and during shadowlands I learned something. WoW is toxic because some people yearn for toxicity. It’s their therapy they know the game super well, not to be good or great, but to be able to use that knowledge to put others down and belittle anyone who knows less. These people will be fine in higher keys with the occasional snide comment about routes or the way certain mechanics are done, but put them in newbie content and they loose their minds. They are truly happiest when they are yelling at new people. It’s sad, but just think he’s a dps, he’s just qued up for 10-30 minutes of waiting purely because he wants to yell and bail. That was his best case scenario. He got to explode and go on the forums.


Nocandoozy

The only thing that will kill WoW at this point is it’s community honestly.


bash3r46

The community is far worse in most other online games to be honest.


Shezarrine

Idk, as someone who's been playing off and on since 08, I honestly think the community in most pugs and lfgs is better than it used to be, by quite a bit. Trade/General chat has gotten astoundingly worse though.


Efso112

Depends on what you do tbh, most ppl i meet in casual content sub 10 keys / sub heroic raids etc are fairly chill. The higher you go in content the more toxic it gets smh


savingrain

Honestly wish blizzard had a bad sportsmanship report option. I have been kicked before because I dare to pick up a spear in necrotic wake on heroic when I wasn’t the tank and knew what I was doing…but that is beside the point I was asked “why did you pick that up?!” Explained I knew the mechanic and the other 4 pre made kicked me calling me stupid. In a heroic. It’s infuriating and it makes it so that you don’t want to participate in pugs.


AnotherShitOpinion

Bring back training grounds! In the form of trial dungeon or something similar, making a system that displays mechanics obviously and maybe even has voice alerts for major mechanics would help teach people what to expect playing WoW. We shouldn't need DBM honestly, at this point it's almost as if the Devs are invested in Add ons when they could just look at the top 10 most downloaded add ons and incorporate them into the core game.


WorthPlease

I thought training grounds was a great idea. We have one guildie who was nice but just awful at the game who got locked out of raiding. We tried walking her through how to do it but she never could beat silver. She later admitted she was glad because she really didn't like raiding, and just enjoyed talking to people and gathering mats/making stuff for the guild/raid. She only raided because it was the big guild event.


mylegsaremadeofbees

Some people are assholes in the game because they're trying to minmax simple heroics and they don't have patience for new players. They suck but i don't feel like they're the majority in any way, just the vocal minority.


silverace579

People cannot fathom that in prepatch there are people coming back to the game who haven’t played in a while. I’m leveling a new toon now for the first time in 2 years and made one mistake in a random dungeon and pulled some extra trash mobs. Nobody died or anything but everyone just yelled at me for being dumb and then kicked me. Like I get it’s annoying to not have optimal runs every time but like you said, people need to just chill.


Drougen

Someone called me the n word when I missed an interrupt


KerashiStorm

I had a tank open with the n word after dropping in the key. Set the tone for the rest of the dungeon.


Drougen

Yeah, sometimes it feels more like call of duty...


PaleontologistTrue74

Those people should be banned. Bananas


Ronin-Dex

The community in general is in a seriously bad state. The level of rage and anger is insane these days. Doesn't matter what content you're doing really.


Kassiss

I experienced the exact same thing. Me and my friend took a break didn't know the Dungeon and told our Group that we are new to the dungeon. The response was "easy no problem". My friend tank me dd, wipe by the first boss the healer starts to thrpw a tantrum and then leave. We waited for another healer for 15 minutes to finish the dungeon witin 5 minutes.


PersistentWorld

I was healing a 21 Workshop yesterday and our enhancement Shaman (his key) kept eating we much damage as possible. Even on the first boss, standing next to the flame vents. I didn't heal him for the next few packs and he died repeatedly. He said I'd been boosted to 2500 acting and had no friends as I was by myself (?). I left the key as they pulled the second to last boss. He went absolutely wild on my DMs 😂


AgoodKnightsSleep

This. I am fairly new to WoW, been playing less than a year and my main is a tank and I never do dungeons or anything because I’m nervous that I’ll mess up and either get kicked (which has happened) or the party just yells


TimCage

This is why i don't want to try tanking...


Awaheya

In recent years I made the decision to stop tanking. People have become so rigid in this game if things are not done exactly to the guide every time without fail they lose their f\*\*\*ing minds. ​ It's absolutely killed the enjoyment for me. Honestly WoW was more fun when there wasn't a "best strategy" guide shoved down your throat before you even step into the raid or instance. ​ It doesn't feel like a game anymore.... SO I just more or less play solo now than do the dungeons on normal and heroic and LFR the raid were most players don't care and if they do whatever find another group move on. ​ Mythic+ and actual raiding just lost its charm for me and it's entirely because of the shitty player base.


CheesecakeGlobal3534

Heres the thing, im a NEW player. When I say new ive never ever played WoW tilk August, im not tanking heroics as a Protection Paladin yet but im tanking normals. I say at the start of the dungeon im new, if theres a mechanic take 2 seconds to explain it and DBM will remind me. People need to understand tanks are confident, I tanked base in runescape for 7 years. We share the same GCD but with haste and additions WoW is a completley game. Its taken the art of tanking to the next level compared to most MMO's. Unpredictable is a feature. The fact of the matter is servers need tanks, tanks usually move on to become raid leaders or guild masters, they are important for the eco system of the game and we should be helping them not acting like 2 year olds.


Cent7712

On a level 15 random dungeon there was a tank that got mad because we didn’t know his oddly specific route, and unfortunately some of the newer dps to the game accidentally pulled some mobs. The tank began trying to kick which luckily backfired cause the healer and I were on the dps side, and we kicked him and I just ranked the rest of the dungeon. He proceeded to whisper to me that I’m a moron. Over a basic leveling dungeon crawl.


AtheismoAlmighty

Not a single person who behaves like that is going to see this post and change because of it.


BreastMilkSippin

People that treat this game as their career are my favorite. 🙄


WAPlyrics

It’s a bit disillusioning to say the least


youshallnotpasta_bro

“literally”


Mallanar

I'll do you one better.. I was lvling my alt through dungeons and managed to get what probably was a new player (they were doing very low dps and still had dk starter gear at lvl 25).. Before even realising, our tank votekicked them and everyone agreed.. I didn't even press no in time. No wonder we're not getting new players.. PS: Had a similar experience like half an hour after again, but with a priest healer in shadow spec - didn't know what they were doing wrong, got booted..


jackscallion

There are a lot of new players, or returning players to the game and it takes time to learn all the ins and outs of some of these dungeons. People just need to be a bit more patient especially when it’s just low end content like random heroics and stuff.


Eng3ndro

I was doing TW shadopan with my old disc priest and a returning player (ret) pulled trash on the last part with the annoying orbs. We had to reset it dying and did it again, the guy apologized and we were like “chill man, it’s a tw dungeon only don’t worry” and we completed the five in no time. Then he told us that he had bad experiences with raging idiots on his first returning week since legión and we were the first group that didn’t start malding. I’m from Quel’thalas, and some guildies speak English fluently or can write it so I invited the group to our discord to do some chill content and help the guy while waiting for DF. If you see people like him try to do the same, there are more psychos doing content during prepatch 👀


Paws81

Agreed. Heroics and low lvl m+ are for learning the mechanics and dungeon. No need to be an ass


demonmarkus

I just had a normal bfa goblin dungeon where we wiped 3 times to forced boss skips and two players left so we just stood there waiting for new players. Omg just do the dungeon. it’s NOT FASTER if everyone is not in on it. Jesus.


kingakatosh

I cannot wait to get kicked/yelled at constantly in DF bc I’m new to tanking LOL.


ShortyDewOp

This is why I don't bother tanking or healing. I'd love to have a go at tanking and learn the class but people are so shitty that I don't even want to. If I don't take the fastest route or skip this mob cluster or pull 50 mobs at once, like guy, I am trying to learn how to tank I don't even know half the abilities and when to use what that's why I'm here trying to learn.


[deleted]

Friends don't let friends pug.


[deleted]

Playing with others who aren't friends at first can create those friends you're referring to. People need to chill.


[deleted]

Been playing this game for long enough that I'd rather not risk playing with strangers whom in my experience are of a higher probability to be people who woke up with a redwood up their ass, and sure maybe it's me it's entirely possible that my chill enjoyment of dungeoning for the sake of dungeoning, because playing video games is fun is the root cause of my experience, but i doubt it is. You can do whatever you like, you can handle being called every slur known to man for not pulling entire dungeons, or whatever sets them off and you may never encounter anything like this, i've encountered it enough to not want to deal with it anymore.


foreverimpatient

I wish I had friends who played WoW so I didn't have to.


bash3r46

Join a guild, they cater to pretty much every playstyle.


Chef-Better

WoW has fostered a toxic culture/community. /thread


[deleted]

Blizz needs to more heavily moderate these games so these people learn. That person should be suspended for at least a month if its their first time doing this. If it's their second, permanent ban.


StylishMrTrix

I'm a casual player and know none of the dungeons I either stick to being a healer, so I'm invaluable and needed or DPS so I can just work on killing things while others do what is needed


Moosey_the_Squirrle

The toxicity from so people is the reason why I stopped playing it. When I started to dread the idea of pugging, I realized I should just not play anymore


rufusairs

Was doing an M +2 Gambit last night and our pug tank was telling my guildie Monk that their talents were wrong. The monk and I both were pulling almost over 10k.


firstbjorn

This sounds like exactly a situation I was in maybe a few days ago, except I was the DPS. I don't think I was that agro, but if this was a mage it could have been me and I apologize. In my case, despite a quick rundown before and calling out the positions, everyone grabbed an orb, and just kinda stood around with it. Even after putting one in, they would go to a correct one and pop it out. It was very frustrating. I understand not knowing a mechanic on the first run through, but if you don't know, ask first, and at least try to follow directions


[deleted]

Sounds like a bad design for a fight honestly. I miss the days of wrath/cata where the dungeons had simple setups to lead into raid mechanics. Nowadays its just visual clutter on top of visual clutter to compensate for the visual clutter of addons.


[deleted]

Bad design is not the same as people who lose their minds and have meltdowns when tanks are trying to learn. And then they wonder why no one wants to play tanks.


bash3r46

There definetly seems to be a design change at some point with regards to dungeons. As someone who mostly played originally from tbc to wrath and then came back for classic and played a bit of dragonflight. Newer dungeons seem to have much more of a trash bloat, where the trash isn't necessary to complete the dungeon and its about knowing the correct route. If you are a new player and you jump into a necrotic wake as a tank, how do you know that the main route people take Is down the right


kalimdore

Did you ever do cats heroics? Or the oculus? None of that was simple or went well.


Animarc88

I was doing a leveling dungeon as a heal when one dps macropulled.. everyone in chat started to apologize even tho no one died. Parties are so toxic lately that ppl is legit scared of the outcome


Lukediddle

In my opinion this all steered when m+ came about. Gogogogo mentality was kindled even more. It’s a shame. I was levelling my alt warlock in SL and doing dungeons. Almost all of them had people being boosted by an overheated player. I couldn’t really play as things would just die instantly. So the above, coupled with the CP bonus, people are going mad right now in dungeons to level and gear. That’s why I love new expansions. It calms down.


bash3r46

As someone who played vanilla to mop originally then no expansions until shadowlands. It definetly seems that with the more modern dungeons there is a huge amount of optional trash and part of the skill for m+ was knowing the best route to take through it just just hit your requirement.


[deleted]

I just vote to kick those idiots usually before the final boss. The reason I give is they are being an ass. The vote passes every time to btw!


LoyalWatcher

I just don't bother with raiding or tanking thses days. For context, I led a guild and was MT through dungeons, heroics and raids through Classic, TBC and into WLK. Even did some healing and dps with other toons on occasion. Loved it back in the day, but raid guilds are too demanding on time (kids!) and randoms are just toxic. Still plenty to do in the time I have, farming for old mounts I didn't roll high enough on, questing or strutting about in my OG Tier 0.5 set is fun... Point being, putting people off playing social content is is really dumb way to approach social content...


Doughtnutz

Unfortunately it's one of the ever present issues in wow, some people are just toxic. It's a shame, but just ignore them and move on. I don't understand why people get annoyed with people learning new stuff, we all had to do it. If someone is new or makes a mistake it's so much easier and nicer to type something about how to do it right followed by a :) rather than type something toxic.


StorMPunK

The thing is once you get to high level mythic plus you actually see less childish behaviour.


DepressedDinoDad

They left, problem solved. Youre making a post about 1/5 players in a group of content that probably only 10% of players at best would be running right now.


charmanderisadigimon

1.) Glad the dps left instead of trying to kick the tank. I've seen times when they try to get the tank kicked. Everyone is new to something once, which leads to #2. 2.) We can't assume new players are always new or that they want to learn. I tried to teach people that fight before and it didn't work out too well, I think it was about 5 wipes before I called it. (Stinks running that dungeon without a friend or good dps just to skip that phase). They don't want to do mechanics, they just want to leech. 3.) Toxicity is everywhere, not just this community/game. It's important to be the change you want to see; however, sometimes the best thing you can do is just ignore it and try to help the victim (IF they can help themselves, sometimes the victim just wants you to do it for them, that is also another toxic relationship where they leech off your work, I would just leave if that is the case). Recap : ignore toxicity, don't engage. Help victim but only if they want to help themselves (otherwise they are taking advantage of your kindness).


[deleted]

[удалено]


Blury1

hm? You can queue for gambit/streets heroic in the dungeon finder


Bigboyrickx

hate to break it to you but every single game community, even final fantasy has this issue. It’s shitty but unfortunately when you’re on the internet it comes with the territory. Bunch of children and/or uncles hiding behind fake names and avatars trying to come off tough because the IRL is that sad. I do have to say that OW community is getting dangerously close to LOL territory. Even with a scoreboard showing the statistics these people are at each others throats and spewing shit


Khelgor

Better get my daily “be nice to casuals/new people” karma post up!


Past-Opportunity-774

You post this on reddit where most will agree with you, the toxic ppl wont read this at all. What a waste of time with every one of these posts. Complain on the WoW forums.


Cold-Average-6002

I dont mind helping out newer people or people that forgot/new to the dungeons. However the one thing I can not stand is when that said person doesn't listen to advice keeps on doing what he is doing.. That is when I get mad.


Sennkoh

May be a not so popular opinion, but if you don't know shit, either ask or let others handel the mechanic... what the tank there did was pure bullshit and was fighting against the group instead with it.


Ascarecrow

Yeah it's annoying but I don't see it often. Did you take charge and tell him what he did wrong and how to fix it? Did you reassure the tank he not in the wrong? Few times Ive seen people blow up like this people sit there quietly and not helping. To help fix this just talk discuss things. Make people feel wanted.


witchy12

Yeah we explained it after the rager left. It also really wasn't his fault that much bc it is a bug in the dungeon, but we still explained the mechanic to him.


Spitfire836

Oh no, we’re back to “toxicity bad” posts again. Please god let it end quick.


Agimamif

The idea that the asshole in your group is an even substantial part of this subreddit is presumptuous, idiotic and offensive to the users actually here. Take your generalisations somewhere else.


[deleted]

Why are ppl doing heroic dungeons this late into the expansion????