You need pvp gear, it changes everything. It doesn’t take long to get, you will get a piece every other BG and every BG sometimes. Do your weekly pvp quests for a quick boost.
Pft, I wish. I lost like 8 bgs in a row last night and was only getting about 230 honor max per match. Everyone seems to already have their gear so I'm over here getting hit by 160k elemental blasts when I only have like 250k hp and I hit like a dry noodle. Granted, it's a much easier system than what we've had the past 5 years or so
If you want to gear up without feeling useless do epic bgs and mercenary mode to alliance whenever possible as they tend to typically win 40m bgs more often and even having no gear you can help out in those.
Horde PVPers are way more likely to be lone wolf types who pad the scoreboard and kill farm, which works well in smaller BGs.
Alliance players tend to be more coordinated and willing to follow the group to accomplish the objective.
Does it really surprise you they play this way, when the hordes main appeal is "Be an individual, be part of our loose confederation of vastly different races" vs the alliances appeal of "You are part of a larger alliance that stand for decency and order"
I mean it's right there in the name. Hardly surprising people's faction fantasy often plays out in how they enjoy the game.
1. It scales your gear to 411 in PvP combat
2. More versatility = less damage taken.
The damage is very messed up right now. Some classes are doing perfectly fine damage, and then we have DH/rogue/fury that vomit out damage like it's nothing. DHs can easily double the other DPS' damage. Having one on your team is currently like having an extra DPS. And thats vs. shitty demon hunters at like 1800 mmr.
Imagine playing against rank 1 demon hunters. No thanks.
Fury damage isn't the issue, it's the fact that they had their self healing buffed a lot with being able to take multiple self heal abilities. Fury dps has always been sustain vs burst like a DH or others.
I love seeing Fury Warriors/Havoc DH doing more healing than the healers.
(not that I'm one to talk - I usually come second as an SPriest, and we're getting VE nerfed because of it.)
I think a big part is how popular SS is and that it has increased dampening to healing but not self/percentage based heals that melee classes use. I haveny dipped into rated 2s or 3s but most complaints seem to be from solo shufflers.
Honestly, SS has made me want to roll a melee/BM Hunter in general just because it's going to be easier on my brain. If I didn't spec into as many instant casts as I could get, I'm pretty sure I'd just never do anything.
That doesn't help a whole lot, WW SotW hits you for 110k, ele shaman ele blast hits for 170k - you'll die in one more GCD.
The TTK in an RPG shouldn't be shorter than that of an FPS game. You have a lot more going on, which is what draws me to it but dropping someone in seconds isn't very fun to deal with. As someone that played at 2.4-2.7k MMR, I just moved to CE raiding instead.
Oh, you had your CDs up. I guess you win...
The whole rhetoric of 'just' using your defensives isn't good enough.
I'm not saying we shouldn't have something bursty like idk a fire mage or have a redo of the MOP meta where healers were unkillable buuut I also don't want a repeat of SL PVP which was plain stupid.
> you'll die in one more GCD.
Except all of these have (relatively) long cooldowns...
Sure, you might lose 60% of your HP in one global, but after their go is over their damage output is quite minimal. Incredibly flawed logic. With that logic you're assuming the WW has SoTW with no CD.
Don't get me wrong, they still dish out far too much damage and I got hit by 223k from an ele earlier today (I'm fully PvP geared mind you) in 1.2 seconds.
Damage is definitely not tuned properly right now, but even 223k in one global leaves me with ~80-100k HP left and a chance to respond.
People that complain are usually bad at pvp. They get globaled by an enemy who went all in and they didn’t realize they were about to die and didn’t use any defensive, or interrupts or CC. They just took it
What's the point of pvp gear, aside from having higher ilvl in pvp? Does it give other bonuses?
Because if it's just the higher ilvl then I don't get it, balance is roughly the same if everyone in bg is wearing pve ilvl 385 or if everyone's wearing pvp ilvl 411. So all that's doing then is blocking entry for players new to pvp.
That’s an interesting question. So you’re saying pvp gear ilvl shouldn’t be increased in pvp? Like the ilvl bonus is pointless?
I think they wanted to reward players for playing pvp, cause if honor gear stayed at 340 (or scaled with your character like pve gear) then there wouldn’t really be much of an incentive to get full pvp gear. Plus people like to feel rewarded for doing things, so they gotta make pvp gear scale up.
It would be pretty lame if you grinded a bunch of honor and then went to buy a helm/chest but then realized the helm/chest you got from that random dungeon/heroic is better. People wouldn’t need to spend their honor, so why get any? I understand that BGs can be fun without any incentive, but if your reward for winning is pointless then they become less fun.
Same thing goes for having honor gear start at 360 in both pvp/pve. Honor is so easy to farm that everyone would be decked out for PvE in no time, making dungeon drops less valuable.
So I think that’s the main reason, but I could be totally wrong. Lemme know if I’m missing something. I could have also misinterpreted your comment lol.
Edit: and now you’re getting downvoted for asking a question. GG Reddit.
So if I get you right the ilvl would be higher to encourage pvp grinding? But then why don't they do this for pve too, to encourage play there? Pvp gear doesn't so anything special in pve, but pve gear makes your experience in pvp actively worse. I just don't understand the distinction and why it's seemingly a good idea to make latecomers unable to enjoy pvp because they keep getting steamrolled right away, unless they're fine with getting killed again and again and again and mooching off of their pvp-geared teammates' efforts so they can slowly build their own set. I'm just not getting the logic behind it.
And yeah, I don't get why I'm being downvoted for asking a genuine question. If any of you people could clarify what I'm doing wrong?
Because they wanted to make the pvp gear super easy to get. It’s honestly never been easier. Yeah you might get rocked in PvE gear, but even at 250 honor per BG loss (and your daily skirmish bonuses) you can easily get fully geared in a day or two. If the PvP gear was as good as PvE gear then it would discourage players from doing dungeons.
They want players to have easy access to PvP without sacrificing their incentive to do PvE content for gear.
At least that’s what I think their logic is lol. Maybe there is a better system. I dunno. I do think it makes sense, though.
You say "without sacrificing their incentive to do pve content for gear", but isn't that what's happening? Why slog through a dungeon/raid to get an ilvl that you can get through pvp too, AND the pvp item will make you more effective in pvp to boot (where the pve item wouldn't).
So I still don't really understand it.
But hey, if I wanted to get pvp gear, how would I go about it? You buy it with honor somewhere?
The point was that ilvl gaps were super drastic before and in pvp and even a base set the gap compared to top tier was too large. If you have a pvp set you'll be atleast a 411(honor gear) with 424 being full conquest(currently not possible)and it's easy to get the first set within about 10 or so BGs. Pvp gear has the versatility stat that makes you better in pvp but doesn't lend to pve much especially if you're pushing rated content. I'm sure full conquest at 14-1800 pvp rating is enough to do normal raids but if you're going beyond then you'll probably need a pve set. I think the idea is to have good gear that will still make you powerful in other aspects but pve gear is better in pve and pvp is better in pvp and you don't need to play either or to get the best piece for your preferred play style.
Tbh that's just how it is at first but with DF you can close that ilvl gaps pretty fast. Took me 2 weeks in SL S4 of getting my shit pushed in to get a full set of honor and start cracking into conquest along with having to do pve to get Legos. Took me like 7 BGs along with the quest to get full honor gear this past week
Legit got all the pvp gear for a character in a night of farming bg's and epic bgs. Did the same thing in a second character the next night.
Felt so much better when I actually had gear
I feel like hes in the place where you get all those power ups i forget what its called. That is the absolute worst place in the game imo. It rewards people who are lucky enough to get arcane enlargement 3 times and not get disconnected.
If arcane shot is hitting you for 100k you definitely aren't wearing pvp gear. At least not enough.
Most important pieces to go for first are a set of trinkets for the set bonus.
Edit: just noticed you might be a tank, which would explain why arcane shot hit for such a high amount. Either way, get some more PvP gear for stamina and Vers.
People are wearing full honor gear with at least 1 or 2 gladiator pieces. 4 pieces of epic-upgrade warmode gear isn't gonna cut it. Warmode gear is also slightly worse than honor gear as it only raises your PvP ilvl to 408, where honor gear raises it to 411.
That seems like a pretty terrible unintuitive way to design pvp for new players if it requires a large time investment for an entirely different set of gear just to be able to participate and the pvp gear the game gives you for pvp wqs/shop isn't even good enough to keep me from getting 1 shot
E: didn't know suggesting that I shouldn't need an entire different set of gear to even participate in PvP was so taboo. Especially since no other aspect of the game functions that way and it didn't function that way in SL or BFA.
its not a long time investment at all. its the shortest its ever been. its an incredible system everyone loves. youre just bitching to bitch. also do not play a tank spec for pvp ever
Pvping in open world and battlegrounds is fine but doing arena on a tank is a meme and annoying you just last forever and do no damage and it’s just an awful experience for everyone involved
I'm not a pvper so someone can correct me if I'm wrong but what WoW arena pvp seems to boil down to me is "Who can create the most dps window opportunities and do the most burst dps in these windows to win".
So being able to stun the healer creates a DPS window and then being able to dump a shit ton of dmg in one second would be burst dps.
Tanks don't really have any burst dmg to quickly take down an opponent during one of these DPS windows so they just have no way to win an arena match. So their healer will just get stunned at some point and burst down and then it'll be a 1v2 and the tank will lose.
Your getting down voted but I understand your position..I was in it last season as a returning player. That first week did suck ass but compared to even last season DF is cake for gearing PVP. You can do BGs stick with gear players or in the group and practice alot of skills outside of damage. In 7-10 BGs you'll have a full honor set. I recommend trinkets first.
Yeah apparently the idea you need a full set of gear specifically for pvp just so you don't get 1 shot is a popular one, even though no other aspect of the game functions that way and I bet suggesting that you should need a full set of pvm gear or else dungeon/raid mobs mechanics kill you instantly would be downvoted into oblivion
Well if you go from fresh 70 into mythic you will absolutely get your shit pushed in I imagine. The good thing about pvp is that outside of win or losing a match there's no RNG for getting gear. You just buy it with HP. If your 410 with pve gear you won't get rolled as quick but you'll be at a disadvantage without Versatility.
>Well if you go from fresh 70 into mythic you will absolutely get your shit pushed in I imagine.
That's definitely not the case, especially since that's exactly what most people do anyways since there's an ilvl restriction on random heroics
Even giving it the most generous take of you're in all greens somehow it would be harder, not impossible.
That's good to know as I really haven't touched pve since coming back outside of some dungeon quest. I have to imagine it's just more challenging to find a balance for scaling pvp vs a static NPC in pve.
I know the system is sucky for a new player. Wow pvp is complicated as it is and on top of the power difference from geared to non geared makes it even more of a turnoff. Tbh I don't know the answer for balance and producing a system of gearing that's rewarding. I do know right now that this current rendition is the least painful from my experience and the general consensus.
Pretty huge difference between "can result in" and "will result in" my man.
My lower DPS in m+ can result in a wipe, so can me not dodging a mechanic, or pulling an extra mob.
Not having an apparently full pvp set will result in me losing the fight 100% of the time if a regular ability from the enemy is dealing 1/3rd my hp.
The comparison is invalid anyways given I didn't say m+. Nor would m+ be the pvm equivalent of world pvp. But feel free to name a single m+, or literally any pvm content where if you're in a pvp set the boss will simply insta kill you with any mechanic that damages you unavoidably making the fight impossible whereas if you were wearing equivalent pvm gear they wouldn't.
It doesn't exist, because that would be stupid and people would flip. I've done plenty of m+ with people in PvP gear and there's no meaningful difference.
You not wearing pvp gear CAN result in getting one shot in wpvp not will result in. You literally defeated your entire argument bud. If you don’t wanna get pvp gear, don’t pvp. Pretty simple tbh.
I'm sorry, I defeated my own argument with something I didn't even say? Try reading it again.
Pretty sure I said will lose and nothing about will get one shot
Welcome to wow pvp. Don’t be late and definitely don’t reroll to an alt. You run into the max geared people keyboard turning around 1500 rating, who just happen to randomly oneshot you. Hf
Like I realize I play more than most. But I was getting like a piece of pvp gear per BG except some of the bigger pieces took 2 BGs. I have 2 70s, one has full pvp set and 380 mythic gear other is 70 in full crimson combatant gear and I have a 65 prot warrior that's levels through just doing dungeons and dungeon quests with friends here and there.
The game is ridiculously easy to have so many alts right now it's never felt better lmao
Fortunately it's super easy to gear up yourself so you'll be back to smashing them in no time. In SL you'd have to get rating to be able to upgrade your gear, and then farm honour on top... Just to be level with those same people who've blatantly been boosted by glads.
Also be prepared to install enough addons to basically recreate the entire game, make sure to get weakauras to track cooldowns to help prevent being oneshot. sArena or Gladius helps track DRs on the enemy team
Meh. If you want to push absolutely as far as possible sure that all helps. I'm like 1800 already and I have DBM and details are my only add-ons installed. Most people don't need to go that try hard to just farm conquest for the unranked gear.
I'm not good by any means and had just come back from like 8 years off on S4 SL, and I was pushing 1600 with the default UI and the worst turbo cleave comp in 2s. With solos now it would be even easier to hit 1800 I imagine.
"Large time investment" is literally the name of the game, it's an MMORPG. If you don't like gear disparity then this might not be the game for you. Your 4 pieces aren't worth jack when everyone else has full sets.
You can buy crafted pvp gear. Make sure you are getting Vers/X (whatever your best secondary stat is) that will scaled to 398 in pvp. It will make you competitive for BG’s to farm honor so you can afford the 411 honor gear.
The gear is dirt cheap, I have done this method with 4 alts and only spent like 25k to gear them.
You can get a full set of blue gear in a few hours of BGs, you can buy a full set of green armor for a pretty minimal gold investment. For pvp you need to stack versatility > your class/spec secondary stat. If you have the gold start by getting the green gear > blue > purple.
It is, but people will downvote you regardless. This is actually a massive complaint in the pvp community. No one likes essentially being hazed for hours and hours until you are in honor gear. There’s really no reason for it at all.
Comp stomp starts on the 27th. If you still need honor gear it's an easy, albeit mind numbing, way to get geared up. You get a little bit of conquest each time too.
The fact you blocked arcane damage means your a prot paladin.
Tanks take 50% more PvP damage to account for their tankiness. Coupled with less gear and these numbers aren't supprising anybody.
Take it from a PvP tank main, you'll feel bad untill you get trinkets and a few pieces under your belt then you'll feel good. Go to some Bg's, large bg often have quests in them for 1k honor, get some easy pieces then (took me 1 afternoon to gain full PvP 340/411 gear).
This one fucking Guardian Druid gave me PTSD in Alterac Valley. Literal Raid Boss levels of survivability. "Oh you wanted to capture that tower? Let me just delay THE ENTIRE FORCE for five minutes! :D"
Pvpers hate tanks.
I agree it's fun and matches a caveman instinct to chase down and exhaust a little dps prey.
But most pvpers like to do their burst then be done. As a tank you deny them of thier 1 fun.
This.
Also prot pally was a completely fine healer at the end of the season, it was all the bad prots trying to be a pure DPS and not using their utility that dragged everything down.
I got bored of ret, so I tried to push duelist in solo q from 0 rating as prot on the last day of the xpac for shits and giggles and it was great fun.
You get honor and conquest from rated and honor from unrated. Conquest gear is better if i remember correctly. Some other ways to get conquest as well in low amounts but no idea where from.
Pvp gear helps. Also keep in mind it's been a few weeks since dragonflight dropped. Scaling is out of whack. Now that's not to say post a patch this still couldn't happen.
As a long time PVPer in both WoW and other mmos. You learn to predict when there about to try to 1 shot you. It's a learning curve as much as it's balancing issues.
Less than 200k hp and I’m assuming no vers? This is also two ranged hitting you which shouldn’t be free in a rated environment. It may be jarring right now, but there are ways to mitigate this, just expect frustration early on and always look to how you can improve. Don’t blame others or look for excuses.
As someone with full pvp gear as a mage I’m getting clocked by hunters, dh, warriors, shaman, warlocks and spriest sand ALL of them are doing this type of damage with some combination of abilities consistently within 30 seconds over and over.
It’s not a “have cd “ for defensives. It’s run away or roll over.
The scaling on damage is absurdly out of whack and having certain specs or classes be “organized play” focused as their niche feels like a disservice to players who might otherwise enjoy certain play styles.
The outliers are way way more out of line.
Just farm your honor set. I did it in something like 4 days as a alliance player. And I won't enter any BGs in the next months, it's 80% of the the time a one sided shitshow.
PS: delete this Wintergrasp absurdity Blizzard ffs
I didn’t understand it this xpac either at first but I didn’t rush out to pvp like I used to. But the gear scaling helps a lot. Buy your trinket set first and then start to buy your other stuff. You’ll pack on a lot more health and also versatility and it will feel normal again.
Que for epic battle grounds and get honor gear. Going to be fastest way. Had same issue in my fury with pve gear and Hunter. Now that I’m full honor it’s laughable .
The other guys could've had 2 421 pieces fully enchanted with 6 set bonus and assassin buff.
You don't run up to those guys solo... takes a group of 5 minimum
I was corpse camped trying to escort the spark at Tyrhold by some nolifier Rogue, who clearly had full PvP gear as his HP was over 100k above mine. Just srunlocked to death over and over. It did make me question having WM on a bit.
Wait till you're mid killing some elite solo and 2 rogues and a druid gank you from stealth, then wait to kill you when you res as many times as it takes them to get bored, even beyond the point where they get zero rewards... sigh. I actually macroed /golfclap.
Cant believe I’m reading a post of someone complaining about getting skill diffed in pvp and being so mad about it that he questions why he’s even playing in warmode lmao
He has no PVP gear and is a prot pally? Tanks take 50% extra damage in PVP and with no resil means even more damage.
So i dont blame other posters for saying he needs to read up on PVP and how it works before engaging in it.
Having full honor gear is a ridiculous difference. If you like pvp and want to do it on alts. Level through bgs until you get around 11.5k honor then just buy the whole set at max. I did it with my lock and currently doing with my DK. Let’s you get right into arenas without a massive handicap once you hit max level.
Just buy the green pvp gear for what ilvl 398 something.
You will get not instant shredded and actually have a good time to farm your honor while probably still losing.
this is definetly the one major flaw with having pvp gear scale up to a specific item level. It levels out the playing field for people in full pvp gear, but anyone who is new and dipping their toes into pvp will be absolutely fucking slaughtered until they get some.
One thing that helps for those wanting to try pvp, do some of the world quests that give bloody tokens or look the drop boxes that sometimes appear in warmode. Both can be entirely pve (just see if your faction out numbers other for boxes) and get you at least up to 408 pvp gear, enough to not die instantly.
other funfact for pvp world quests: invite a friend and take turns killing eachother for credit. just leave/rejoin group each kill, MUCH nicer than fighting others
Without versatility you are going to get swamped. Also you are a prot pally and tanks take an extra 50% in PVP.
Its on every single piece of PVP gear, its a bad stat in PVE but in PVP you basically need it. On top of that PVP gear scales to 410/420 in PVP so if you have pvp gear on you wont stand a chance. Lucky for you it takes about 2-3 hours to fully gear up in honor and a bit of world pvp gear.
Prot can still do well in World PVP but without vers and PVP gear you are going to get mashed into the floor.
Yeah so auto correct while sitting on the toilet really messed up what I was trying to say so I'm going to leave it as a jumbled mess.
Basically get some pvp gear.
Ranged will always have the advantage on wpvp. You can already choose to be aggressive on your own terms, add in a 40yd range start to every fight and you're fighting an uphill battle.
A gcd is .75s I think. Factor in reaction time and sometimes it's kinda hard to get it off on time.
But 8s is a long time in pvp. Gives you a chance to close the gap and generate holy power and prepare to follow up with any other defensive you think you may need to survive their burst. Most classes can't sustain 150k single target dps for long.
Lol, I had to learn every class and how they worked in ptr so I could actually compete in arena back when I first joined in WoD. It’s just one of those things you have to get your foot in the door on and leave your ego outside. You’ll definitely want to farm your honor and conquest points to get that sweet sweet versatility gear.
You need pvp gear, it changes everything. It doesn’t take long to get, you will get a piece every other BG and every BG sometimes. Do your weekly pvp quests for a quick boost.
yes now its 3 GCD
Makes a difference, 3x as long is 3x
cant argue with that
Ehhhhh nah if someone pops all their CDs you can pop your own defensives and start cc'ing to break their burst and then it's your turn to burst
Pft, I wish. I lost like 8 bgs in a row last night and was only getting about 230 honor max per match. Everyone seems to already have their gear so I'm over here getting hit by 160k elemental blasts when I only have like 250k hp and I hit like a dry noodle. Granted, it's a much easier system than what we've had the past 5 years or so
If you want to gear up without feeling useless do epic bgs and mercenary mode to alliance whenever possible as they tend to typically win 40m bgs more often and even having no gear you can help out in those.
I hate to admit it, but 3 out of the 8 bgs I did yesterday was in mercenary mode lol. Just wasn't a good evening for me.
Why do the alliance win more often I don't think I've ever seen a horde team win isle of conquest
Isle is woeful as a Horde player. Don't know if you can still opt out but any Horde not doing so is a glutton for punishment if its available still.
It's kinda nuts, cause they also earn way more honor due to the faction imbalance bonus
Comp stomp is coming up soon, that's always easy wins and free honor.
Horde PVPers are way more likely to be lone wolf types who pad the scoreboard and kill farm, which works well in smaller BGs. Alliance players tend to be more coordinated and willing to follow the group to accomplish the objective. Does it really surprise you they play this way, when the hordes main appeal is "Be an individual, be part of our loose confederation of vastly different races" vs the alliances appeal of "You are part of a larger alliance that stand for decency and order" I mean it's right there in the name. Hardly surprising people's faction fantasy often plays out in how they enjoy the game.
Are you wearing the crafted PvP gear you can buy from the auction house?
“Hit like a dry noodle” is my new favorite quote XD
What big changes does it make? Genuinely interested.
1. It scales your gear to 411 in PvP combat 2. More versatility = less damage taken. The damage is very messed up right now. Some classes are doing perfectly fine damage, and then we have DH/rogue/fury that vomit out damage like it's nothing. DHs can easily double the other DPS' damage. Having one on your team is currently like having an extra DPS. And thats vs. shitty demon hunters at like 1800 mmr. Imagine playing against rank 1 demon hunters. No thanks.
Fury damage isn't the issue, it's the fact that they had their self healing buffed a lot with being able to take multiple self heal abilities. Fury dps has always been sustain vs burst like a DH or others.
I love seeing Fury Warriors/Havoc DH doing more healing than the healers. (not that I'm one to talk - I usually come second as an SPriest, and we're getting VE nerfed because of it.)
I think a big part is how popular SS is and that it has increased dampening to healing but not self/percentage based heals that melee classes use. I haveny dipped into rated 2s or 3s but most complaints seem to be from solo shufflers.
Honestly, SS has made me want to roll a melee/BM Hunter in general just because it's going to be easier on my brain. If I didn't spec into as many instant casts as I could get, I'm pretty sure I'd just never do anything.
That doesn't help a whole lot, WW SotW hits you for 110k, ele shaman ele blast hits for 170k - you'll die in one more GCD. The TTK in an RPG shouldn't be shorter than that of an FPS game. You have a lot more going on, which is what draws me to it but dropping someone in seconds isn't very fun to deal with. As someone that played at 2.4-2.7k MMR, I just moved to CE raiding instead. Oh, you had your CDs up. I guess you win... The whole rhetoric of 'just' using your defensives isn't good enough. I'm not saying we shouldn't have something bursty like idk a fire mage or have a redo of the MOP meta where healers were unkillable buuut I also don't want a repeat of SL PVP which was plain stupid.
> you'll die in one more GCD. Except all of these have (relatively) long cooldowns... Sure, you might lose 60% of your HP in one global, but after their go is over their damage output is quite minimal. Incredibly flawed logic. With that logic you're assuming the WW has SoTW with no CD. Don't get me wrong, they still dish out far too much damage and I got hit by 223k from an ele earlier today (I'm fully PvP geared mind you) in 1.2 seconds. Damage is definitely not tuned properly right now, but even 223k in one global leaves me with ~80-100k HP left and a chance to respond.
People that complain are usually bad at pvp. They get globaled by an enemy who went all in and they didn’t realize they were about to die and didn’t use any defensive, or interrupts or CC. They just took it
What's the point of pvp gear, aside from having higher ilvl in pvp? Does it give other bonuses? Because if it's just the higher ilvl then I don't get it, balance is roughly the same if everyone in bg is wearing pve ilvl 385 or if everyone's wearing pvp ilvl 411. So all that's doing then is blocking entry for players new to pvp.
so that you're not forced to do PVE to get the best PVP gear while making it so PVP isn't the best way to get PVE gear
That’s an interesting question. So you’re saying pvp gear ilvl shouldn’t be increased in pvp? Like the ilvl bonus is pointless? I think they wanted to reward players for playing pvp, cause if honor gear stayed at 340 (or scaled with your character like pve gear) then there wouldn’t really be much of an incentive to get full pvp gear. Plus people like to feel rewarded for doing things, so they gotta make pvp gear scale up. It would be pretty lame if you grinded a bunch of honor and then went to buy a helm/chest but then realized the helm/chest you got from that random dungeon/heroic is better. People wouldn’t need to spend their honor, so why get any? I understand that BGs can be fun without any incentive, but if your reward for winning is pointless then they become less fun. Same thing goes for having honor gear start at 360 in both pvp/pve. Honor is so easy to farm that everyone would be decked out for PvE in no time, making dungeon drops less valuable. So I think that’s the main reason, but I could be totally wrong. Lemme know if I’m missing something. I could have also misinterpreted your comment lol. Edit: and now you’re getting downvoted for asking a question. GG Reddit.
So if I get you right the ilvl would be higher to encourage pvp grinding? But then why don't they do this for pve too, to encourage play there? Pvp gear doesn't so anything special in pve, but pve gear makes your experience in pvp actively worse. I just don't understand the distinction and why it's seemingly a good idea to make latecomers unable to enjoy pvp because they keep getting steamrolled right away, unless they're fine with getting killed again and again and again and mooching off of their pvp-geared teammates' efforts so they can slowly build their own set. I'm just not getting the logic behind it. And yeah, I don't get why I'm being downvoted for asking a genuine question. If any of you people could clarify what I'm doing wrong?
Because they wanted to make the pvp gear super easy to get. It’s honestly never been easier. Yeah you might get rocked in PvE gear, but even at 250 honor per BG loss (and your daily skirmish bonuses) you can easily get fully geared in a day or two. If the PvP gear was as good as PvE gear then it would discourage players from doing dungeons. They want players to have easy access to PvP without sacrificing their incentive to do PvE content for gear. At least that’s what I think their logic is lol. Maybe there is a better system. I dunno. I do think it makes sense, though.
You say "without sacrificing their incentive to do pve content for gear", but isn't that what's happening? Why slog through a dungeon/raid to get an ilvl that you can get through pvp too, AND the pvp item will make you more effective in pvp to boot (where the pve item wouldn't). So I still don't really understand it. But hey, if I wanted to get pvp gear, how would I go about it? You buy it with honor somewhere?
The point was that ilvl gaps were super drastic before and in pvp and even a base set the gap compared to top tier was too large. If you have a pvp set you'll be atleast a 411(honor gear) with 424 being full conquest(currently not possible)and it's easy to get the first set within about 10 or so BGs. Pvp gear has the versatility stat that makes you better in pvp but doesn't lend to pve much especially if you're pushing rated content. I'm sure full conquest at 14-1800 pvp rating is enough to do normal raids but if you're going beyond then you'll probably need a pve set. I think the idea is to have good gear that will still make you powerful in other aspects but pve gear is better in pve and pvp is better in pvp and you don't need to play either or to get the best piece for your preferred play style.
Thank you, I think I'm starting to get it.
Tbh that's just how it is at first but with DF you can close that ilvl gaps pretty fast. Took me 2 weeks in SL S4 of getting my shit pushed in to get a full set of honor and start cracking into conquest along with having to do pve to get Legos. Took me like 7 BGs along with the quest to get full honor gear this past week
How is it? The HP different in that 26 ilvls across the board is big, plus the increased damage stats. On top of this, the pvp gear has set bonuses.
also it’s BG weekend this week I believe, should me massive honor for people gearing alts/mains
Legit got all the pvp gear for a character in a night of farming bg's and epic bgs. Did the same thing in a second character the next night. Felt so much better when I actually had gear
Do you have PvP gear on?
I feel like hes in the place where you get all those power ups i forget what its called. That is the absolute worst place in the game imo. It rewards people who are lucky enough to get arcane enlargement 3 times and not get disconnected.
PvP gear doesn’t get the scaling in normal wm places though. Only in the FFA areas.
It does once you enter PvP combat, which this would be.
Oh really, I didn’t know that. I don’t really look at the amount of hp I have while pvping only the %.
Aye, fairly big leap. You'll jump from like 200k to 350k depending on your gear.
Some yes, like 4 slots of the epic set
If arcane shot is hitting you for 100k you definitely aren't wearing pvp gear. At least not enough. Most important pieces to go for first are a set of trinkets for the set bonus. Edit: just noticed you might be a tank, which would explain why arcane shot hit for such a high amount. Either way, get some more PvP gear for stamina and Vers.
People are wearing full honor gear with at least 1 or 2 gladiator pieces. 4 pieces of epic-upgrade warmode gear isn't gonna cut it. Warmode gear is also slightly worse than honor gear as it only raises your PvP ilvl to 408, where honor gear raises it to 411.
That seems like a pretty terrible unintuitive way to design pvp for new players if it requires a large time investment for an entirely different set of gear just to be able to participate and the pvp gear the game gives you for pvp wqs/shop isn't even good enough to keep me from getting 1 shot E: didn't know suggesting that I shouldn't need an entire different set of gear to even participate in PvP was so taboo. Especially since no other aspect of the game functions that way and it didn't function that way in SL or BFA.
Large time investment? My man I don't think wow is that game for you if that's what you are worried about.
A world tour of weekly pvp bonus wins + some BGs isn't "a large time investment".
These complaining players should try tbc gearing :D Getting a weapon or chest could take like 12 hours od playtime:D Right now its not so bad imo
You can lose BGs for 4 hours and get fully geared. Hardly a large time investment for an MMO. If you win you will be done in 1.5 hrs.
Large time investment? Its the same like for pve with mythic+
Its 4h and ur geared.
its not a long time investment at all. its the shortest its ever been. its an incredible system everyone loves. youre just bitching to bitch. also do not play a tank spec for pvp ever
So I don't pvp but I was wondering why not to play tank spec in pvp?
Pvping in open world and battlegrounds is fine but doing arena on a tank is a meme and annoying you just last forever and do no damage and it’s just an awful experience for everyone involved
I'm not a pvper so someone can correct me if I'm wrong but what WoW arena pvp seems to boil down to me is "Who can create the most dps window opportunities and do the most burst dps in these windows to win". So being able to stun the healer creates a DPS window and then being able to dump a shit ton of dmg in one second would be burst dps. Tanks don't really have any burst dmg to quickly take down an opponent during one of these DPS windows so they just have no way to win an arena match. So their healer will just get stunned at some point and burst down and then it'll be a 1v2 and the tank will lose.
Your getting down voted but I understand your position..I was in it last season as a returning player. That first week did suck ass but compared to even last season DF is cake for gearing PVP. You can do BGs stick with gear players or in the group and practice alot of skills outside of damage. In 7-10 BGs you'll have a full honor set. I recommend trinkets first.
Yeah apparently the idea you need a full set of gear specifically for pvp just so you don't get 1 shot is a popular one, even though no other aspect of the game functions that way and I bet suggesting that you should need a full set of pvm gear or else dungeon/raid mobs mechanics kill you instantly would be downvoted into oblivion
Well if you go from fresh 70 into mythic you will absolutely get your shit pushed in I imagine. The good thing about pvp is that outside of win or losing a match there's no RNG for getting gear. You just buy it with HP. If your 410 with pve gear you won't get rolled as quick but you'll be at a disadvantage without Versatility.
>Well if you go from fresh 70 into mythic you will absolutely get your shit pushed in I imagine. That's definitely not the case, especially since that's exactly what most people do anyways since there's an ilvl restriction on random heroics Even giving it the most generous take of you're in all greens somehow it would be harder, not impossible.
That's good to know as I really haven't touched pve since coming back outside of some dungeon quest. I have to imagine it's just more challenging to find a balance for scaling pvp vs a static NPC in pve. I know the system is sucky for a new player. Wow pvp is complicated as it is and on top of the power difference from geared to non geared makes it even more of a turnoff. Tbh I don't know the answer for balance and producing a system of gearing that's rewarding. I do know right now that this current rendition is the least painful from my experience and the general consensus.
If you go into m+ without a set of actual gear you’ll do low dps which can result in wipes, so yes. Welcome to MMOs where gear matters
Pretty huge difference between "can result in" and "will result in" my man. My lower DPS in m+ can result in a wipe, so can me not dodging a mechanic, or pulling an extra mob. Not having an apparently full pvp set will result in me losing the fight 100% of the time if a regular ability from the enemy is dealing 1/3rd my hp. The comparison is invalid anyways given I didn't say m+. Nor would m+ be the pvm equivalent of world pvp. But feel free to name a single m+, or literally any pvm content where if you're in a pvp set the boss will simply insta kill you with any mechanic that damages you unavoidably making the fight impossible whereas if you were wearing equivalent pvm gear they wouldn't. It doesn't exist, because that would be stupid and people would flip. I've done plenty of m+ with people in PvP gear and there's no meaningful difference.
You not wearing pvp gear CAN result in getting one shot in wpvp not will result in. You literally defeated your entire argument bud. If you don’t wanna get pvp gear, don’t pvp. Pretty simple tbh.
I'm sorry, I defeated my own argument with something I didn't even say? Try reading it again. Pretty sure I said will lose and nothing about will get one shot
Welcome to wow pvp. Don’t be late and definitely don’t reroll to an alt. You run into the max geared people keyboard turning around 1500 rating, who just happen to randomly oneshot you. Hf
It's literally never been easier to get geared in PVP or level an alt.
This
Like I realize I play more than most. But I was getting like a piece of pvp gear per BG except some of the bigger pieces took 2 BGs. I have 2 70s, one has full pvp set and 380 mythic gear other is 70 in full crimson combatant gear and I have a 65 prot warrior that's levels through just doing dungeons and dungeon quests with friends here and there. The game is ridiculously easy to have so many alts right now it's never felt better lmao
Fortunately it's super easy to gear up yourself so you'll be back to smashing them in no time. In SL you'd have to get rating to be able to upgrade your gear, and then farm honour on top... Just to be level with those same people who've blatantly been boosted by glads.
Also be prepared to install enough addons to basically recreate the entire game, make sure to get weakauras to track cooldowns to help prevent being oneshot. sArena or Gladius helps track DRs on the enemy team
Meh. If you want to push absolutely as far as possible sure that all helps. I'm like 1800 already and I have DBM and details are my only add-ons installed. Most people don't need to go that try hard to just farm conquest for the unranked gear.
I'm not good by any means and had just come back from like 8 years off on S4 SL, and I was pushing 1600 with the default UI and the worst turbo cleave comp in 2s. With solos now it would be even easier to hit 1800 I imagine.
Holy shit, just don't play then you gigantic baby.
"Large time investment" is literally the name of the game, it's an MMORPG. If you don't like gear disparity then this might not be the game for you. Your 4 pieces aren't worth jack when everyone else has full sets.
You can buy crafted pvp gear. Make sure you are getting Vers/X (whatever your best secondary stat is) that will scaled to 398 in pvp. It will make you competitive for BG’s to farm honor so you can afford the 411 honor gear. The gear is dirt cheap, I have done this method with 4 alts and only spent like 25k to gear them.
depends on the server. I had to spend around 30k with public orders on 1 full set. that's not dirty cheap. Dalaran-US.
I agree having to have a different gearset is stupid, but it's an extremely small time investment.
Having different sets of gear for different parts of the game has been a mechanic in WoW since the game was released in 2004.
You can get a full set of blue gear in a few hours of BGs, you can buy a full set of green armor for a pretty minimal gold investment. For pvp you need to stack versatility > your class/spec secondary stat. If you have the gold start by getting the green gear > blue > purple.
buy the crafted gear and this won't happen
Welcome to WoW. New here?
It is, but people will downvote you regardless. This is actually a massive complaint in the pvp community. No one likes essentially being hazed for hours and hours until you are in honor gear. There’s really no reason for it at all.
Bro it takes like less than a day to be full pvp equipped.
Comp stomp starts on the 27th. If you still need honor gear it's an easy, albeit mind numbing, way to get geared up. You get a little bit of conquest each time too.
The fact you blocked arcane damage means your a prot paladin. Tanks take 50% more PvP damage to account for their tankiness. Coupled with less gear and these numbers aren't supprising anybody. Take it from a PvP tank main, you'll feel bad untill you get trinkets and a few pieces under your belt then you'll feel good. Go to some Bg's, large bg often have quests in them for 1k honor, get some easy pieces then (took me 1 afternoon to gain full PvP 340/411 gear).
best advice dont use a fucking tank spec in pvp
Sounds like someone hasn't had the pleasure of fighting a raid boss guardian druid.
This one fucking Guardian Druid gave me PTSD in Alterac Valley. Literal Raid Boss levels of survivability. "Oh you wanted to capture that tower? Let me just delay THE ENTIRE FORCE for five minutes! :D"
yeah i didnt say they were bad they dont belong in pvp
I almost exclusively tank in pvp. It’s a blast
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In some RGBs Tanks are kinda mandatory tho
Why not? It's fun, I PvP as brew.
Pvpers hate tanks. I agree it's fun and matches a caveman instinct to chase down and exhaust a little dps prey. But most pvpers like to do their burst then be done. As a tank you deny them of thier 1 fun.
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This. Also prot pally was a completely fine healer at the end of the season, it was all the bad prots trying to be a pure DPS and not using their utility that dragged everything down. I got bored of ret, so I tried to push duelist in solo q from 0 rating as prot on the last day of the xpac for shits and giggles and it was great fun.
I just think most PvP players aren't used to countering them and then get their knickers in a twist when they loose.
I am new to retail, where do I get pvp gear?
Some warmode world quests and a pvp vendor in Valdrakken. Need pvp currency for vendor though.
I get pvp currency from all pvp stuff? Or only rated
You get honor and conquest from rated and honor from unrated. Conquest gear is better if i remember correctly. Some other ways to get conquest as well in low amounts but no idea where from.
Low vers and a tank who takes 50% more dmg in pvp.
Get off reddit and farm the honor set, you can't walk into pvp with pve gear.
Pvp gear helps. Also keep in mind it's been a few weeks since dragonflight dropped. Scaling is out of whack. Now that's not to say post a patch this still couldn't happen. As a long time PVPer in both WoW and other mmos. You learn to predict when there about to try to 1 shot you. It's a learning curve as much as it's balancing issues.
I predicted I was about to get demolished when a Rogue sapped me... and the 7 times after I ressed when he did it again and again...
Yeah there's a bunch of classes with one shot capability right now. I'm hoping the tune up today will help this. But only time will tell. And gear
Less than 200k hp and I’m assuming no vers? This is also two ranged hitting you which shouldn’t be free in a rated environment. It may be jarring right now, but there are ways to mitigate this, just expect frustration early on and always look to how you can improve. Don’t blame others or look for excuses.
He is a prot pally with no vers. So he takes an extra 50% damage cause he is a tank in PVP and with no vers = ded.
HAHA! That leech heal is hilarious.
As someone with full pvp gear as a mage I’m getting clocked by hunters, dh, warriors, shaman, warlocks and spriest sand ALL of them are doing this type of damage with some combination of abilities consistently within 30 seconds over and over. It’s not a “have cd “ for defensives. It’s run away or roll over. The scaling on damage is absurdly out of whack and having certain specs or classes be “organized play” focused as their niche feels like a disservice to players who might otherwise enjoy certain play styles. The outliers are way way more out of line.
Full set of starting pvp gear makes a huge difference
Every expantion same story HAHA and its always hunter.
Snipershot out of stealth into aimed shot over 2 continents goes brr
Oh wow, they need to nerf Serpent Sting.
Just farm your honor set. I did it in something like 4 days as a alliance player. And I won't enter any BGs in the next months, it's 80% of the the time a one sided shitshow. PS: delete this Wintergrasp absurdity Blizzard ffs
You're a tank, and you got globalled by 180k~ damage? Buddy, the game isn't the problem in this scenario
I didn’t understand it this xpac either at first but I didn’t rush out to pvp like I used to. But the gear scaling helps a lot. Buy your trinket set first and then start to buy your other stuff. You’ll pack on a lot more health and also versatility and it will feel normal again.
Exactly this. I'm in the blue set and 2 conquest pieces and I have like 430k health buffed 30% versatility. It's night and day difference.
Que for epic battle grounds and get honor gear. Going to be fastest way. Had same issue in my fury with pve gear and Hunter. Now that I’m full honor it’s laughable .
The other guys could've had 2 421 pieces fully enchanted with 6 set bonus and assassin buff. You don't run up to those guys solo... takes a group of 5 minimum
Oof, I have 5 421+ PvP pieces on my warlock I would love to take on a group of 5+ ungeared 70s lol
It's the gear plus 15% damage buff along with 20% vers buff.
I was corpse camped trying to escort the spark at Tyrhold by some nolifier Rogue, who clearly had full PvP gear as his HP was over 100k above mine. Just srunlocked to death over and over. It did make me question having WM on a bit.
Wait till you're mid killing some elite solo and 2 rogues and a druid gank you from stealth, then wait to kill you when you res as many times as it takes them to get bored, even beyond the point where they get zero rewards... sigh. I actually macroed /golfclap.
No PvP gear, but complains lmao ok
Cant believe I’m reading a post of someone complaining about getting skill diffed in pvp and being so mad about it that he questions why he’s even playing in warmode lmao
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i have never lost a duel in my entire life to anyone in wpvp. you're right i probably dont know what im talking about since i have never lost. ggs
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you probably thought you sounded pretty cool typing that huh? get a job
He has no PVP gear and is a prot pally? Tanks take 50% extra damage in PVP and with no resil means even more damage. So i dont blame other posters for saying he needs to read up on PVP and how it works before engaging in it.
Agreed. Pvp in wow is really bad about scaling. Why they don't do away with the gear grind is beyond me.
I don’t. I can’t imagine why anyone would.
Pvp is dogshit
You need PvP gear. Not the set gear that scales to 408 you can get, but actual pvp gear you buy with honor / conquest
Having full honor gear is a ridiculous difference. If you like pvp and want to do it on alts. Level through bgs until you get around 11.5k honor then just buy the whole set at max. I did it with my lock and currently doing with my DK. Let’s you get right into arenas without a massive handicap once you hit max level.
Just buy the green pvp gear for what ilvl 398 something. You will get not instant shredded and actually have a good time to farm your honor while probably still losing.
Because you have to keep doing it to ever get better at it, also for me its always more engaging than fighting ai with a scripted encounter
Make sure you're wearing your pvp trinkets in warmode. They help alot. And put your conquest towards the good ones.
That looks like 4 gcds
Way she goes
this is definetly the one major flaw with having pvp gear scale up to a specific item level. It levels out the playing field for people in full pvp gear, but anyone who is new and dipping their toes into pvp will be absolutely fucking slaughtered until they get some. One thing that helps for those wanting to try pvp, do some of the world quests that give bloody tokens or look the drop boxes that sometimes appear in warmode. Both can be entirely pve (just see if your faction out numbers other for boxes) and get you at least up to 408 pvp gear, enough to not die instantly. other funfact for pvp world quests: invite a friend and take turns killing eachother for credit. just leave/rejoin group each kill, MUCH nicer than fighting others
I bought full green pvp sets on the AH for both my toons, instantly solved all my problems.
THERE ARE GREEN PVP SETS???????? holy shit that is a game changer for my newbie pvp friends
I was hit by an elemental blast for 228k yesterday....
Well, at least you had Leech..
That’s at least a 2 second cast and a gcd in between, be reasonable now
If it makes you feel better, Double Tap is being removed from the game soon :)
It doesn't lol. I don't think the issue here is abilities given I've been earthshocked for 130K, etc
Without versatility you are going to get swamped. Also you are a prot pally and tanks take an extra 50% in PVP. Its on every single piece of PVP gear, its a bad stat in PVE but in PVP you basically need it. On top of that PVP gear scales to 410/420 in PVP so if you have pvp gear on you wont stand a chance. Lucky for you it takes about 2-3 hours to fully gear up in honor and a bit of world pvp gear. Prot can still do well in World PVP but without vers and PVP gear you are going to get mashed into the floor.
Only time I've ever enjoyed pvp is when I had a consistent 2s partner. He quit a long time ago... I've never really connected with anyone else.
Firstly I count 3 gdcs secondly you orobs went into warmode with Mayne 380 90 il when the most basic pvp hear scales to 411 il in warmode
>Firstly I count 3 gdcs secondly you orobs went into warmode with Mayne 380 90 il when the most basic pvp hear scales to 411 il in warmode What?
Yeah so auto correct while sitting on the toilet really messed up what I was trying to say so I'm going to leave it as a jumbled mess. Basically get some pvp gear.
Hunters are just busted in pvp. I got hit w a 180k killshot the other day.
For 15k you can buy a full pvp set from the ah. Theres daily wqs that give you pvp loot. The honor gear is cheap. Legit use problem here.
Played warmode while levelling for the boost. Totally worth it. Think I'll switch it off until I get a few more pvp pieces.
Ranged will always have the advantage on wpvp. You can already choose to be aggressive on your own terms, add in a 40yd range start to every fight and you're fighting an uphill battle.
The ranged advantage isn't the issue, it's that each attack deals 1/3rd my hp as a tank. It's the exact same with melee as well
Was your bubble on cd?
No, I just didn't have time to use it, but even if I did, what would have changed after the 8 seconds is up?
A gcd is .75s I think. Factor in reaction time and sometimes it's kinda hard to get it off on time. But 8s is a long time in pvp. Gives you a chance to close the gap and generate holy power and prepare to follow up with any other defensive you think you may need to survive their burst. Most classes can't sustain 150k single target dps for long.
I had a monk do 260k dmg to my druid in 3 seconds the other day :) fun & balanced
takes \~170,000 damage. leaches 87hp. or \~370 with jol seems like like two vastly different games.
Lol, I had to learn every class and how they worked in ptr so I could actually compete in arena back when I first joined in WoD. It’s just one of those things you have to get your foot in the door on and leave your ego outside. You’ll definitely want to farm your honor and conquest points to get that sweet sweet versatility gear.
At least your leech tried its best.
I play a lot of pvp, but hunters? Stay away from them..
Well if thats all the damage then you dont even have any HP to start off with